Speaker 1: I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
Speaker 1: and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
Speaker 1: that people are going to have to talk about how
Speaker 1: weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm
Speaker 1: your host Chris Matthew. Today, my guests are Judy Gregorson
Speaker 1: and Jerry Marzenski. Be sure and check out our merch shop.
Speaker 1: Beautiful shirts, We've got hoodies. We have movie shirts as well.
Speaker 1: I'm wearing the Doors of Perception shirt right now. Just
Speaker 1: use the link in the description to go check those out.
Speaker 1: We are booking guests for September. If you have suggestions
Speaker 1: or you'd like to be a guest, email me Forbidden
Speaker 1: Knowledge neews at gmail dot com. Today, I want to
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Judy Gregorson and Jerry Marzinski.
Speaker 1: Judy is a powerful voice for those battling mental illness,
Speaker 1: spiritual oppression, and the search for true emotional freedom. Jerry
Speaker 1: is a retired licensed psychotherapist now author with over thirty
Speaker 1: five years experience working with and studying schizophrenia. Judy, Jerry,
Speaker 1: welcome back. How y'all doing good. It's good to good, Doc,
Speaker 1: It's great to have you back. Last time you were
Speaker 1: both on, we shared a bit about Judy's journey healing
Speaker 1: from schizophrenia, and Jerry shared his hands on work with
Speaker 1: the criminally insane, which gives him a unique lens to
Speaker 1: study what modern science knows as schizophrenia. And we're going
Speaker 1: to learn more about specifically the voices that quote unquote
Speaker 1: schizophrenics here, which are modern psychiatric and medical industries label
Speaker 1: auditory hallucinations, and Jerry, you believe these to be more
Speaker 1: along the lines of energetic intelligences or maybe what's some
Speaker 1: called demons. And Judy, you've also got some additional information
Speaker 1: about your journey, which we're going to get into as well.
Speaker 1: Before we do, Jerry, remind the audience a little bit
Speaker 1: about the work you're doing and where you're at with
Speaker 1: your understanding of everything.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been studying the voices schizophrenics here for close
Speaker 2: to forty years, and for about three quarters of that time.
Speaker 2: I started out like everybody else, came out of graduate
Speaker 2: school believing what the psychiatric mafia said that they were
Speaker 2: auditory hallucinations. And as time went on and I began
Speaker 2: working with schizophrenic year after year after year, and then
Speaker 2: asking them questions about what these voices were, what they said,
Speaker 2: how they operated, what they did. Things gradually began to change.
Speaker 2: They didn't they didn't fit the description of hallucinations. Hallucinations
Speaker 2: are all over the place. You know, they're they're good,
Speaker 2: they're bad, they're neutral, they're they're all over the place.
Speaker 2: You can't predict them. The further I went into this,
Speaker 2: the clear a set patterns began to run with regard
Speaker 2: to how the voices operated and what they said. So
Speaker 2: I started asking patients. When I first got to work
Speaker 2: in one of the big biggest psychiatric hospitals on the planet,
Speaker 2: Central State Hospital in Georgia. There were about ten thousand
Speaker 2: patients there when I got there, and a good many
Speaker 2: of them were paranoid schizophrenics, which is the most prevalent
Speaker 2: category of schizophrenia, and they were hearing voices that were
Speaker 2: sabotaging them, causing them trouble, and when they listened to them,
Speaker 2: they got into a lot of trouble. They got into fights,
Speaker 2: they sabotaged themselves, they self destructed, okay, And nobody at
Speaker 2: that hospital had actually taken any time to talk to
Speaker 2: these people about what these voices were in graduate school,
Speaker 2: medical school. The psychiatric mafia had declared that these voices
Speaker 2: were auditory hallucinations without any research whatsoever, only because that's
Speaker 2: what they appeared to be. So as I started questioning
Speaker 2: schizophrenics about what these things are telling you, I got
Speaker 2: blocked by psychiatry when one of the patients went and
Speaker 2: told a psychiatrist that I was asking him questions about
Speaker 2: his voices that he didn't like ended upsetting. I ended
Speaker 2: up in the front of the psychiatrists being ordered to
Speaker 2: not ask any more questions about the voices. That they
Speaker 2: were auditory hallucinations, that's what they were, and by asking
Speaker 2: questions about them to these patients that I was upsetting
Speaker 2: the patients and causing more damage. I knew that was
Speaker 2: a crock of crap at the time. He said, but
Speaker 2: you can't talk back to these people. They're just most
Speaker 2: of them are just very arrogant. So I went on
Speaker 2: kind of under the radar asking these people questions about
Speaker 2: the voices. I had to be very careful, but I
Speaker 2: really couldn't get into it until I left there. Finished,
Speaker 2: went through the PhD program for a couple of years,
Speaker 2: and then took a job with the Arizona state prison
Speaker 2: in the psychology department. Okay. There they were set up
Speaker 2: for violence. Okay, so if a psychiatric patient got violent,
Speaker 2: unlike at the state hospital, they had all the resources
Speaker 2: they needed to deal with that patient. And so they
Speaker 2: weren't afraid of people getting violent because it happened. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was almost a daily occurrence. So what I had
Speaker 2: was a group of schizophrenic that I had kind of
Speaker 2: told them, Hey, I'll do everything I can to help
Speaker 2: you with with your schizophrenia. In return, what I want
Speaker 2: you to do is tell me what these voices are
Speaker 2: telling you in our sessions in live, you know, immediately
Speaker 2: and live I mean, so they weren't they were as
Speaker 2: they appeared, okay. And after after they're telling me all
Speaker 2: these questions and me asking them thousands of questions over
Speaker 2: over a serial in many years, patterns started to appear
Speaker 2: with regard to these voices. Now, if they were hallucinations,
Speaker 2: there wouldn't be any patterns. And these patterns were consistent
Speaker 2: among hundreds of schizophrenics. They were all telling me. The
Speaker 2: voices were doing the same things, saying the same kind
Speaker 2: of things. One of the first patterns that appeared was
Speaker 2: that they were consistently negative. That was the most common
Speaker 2: consistent trained. They're constantly negative, derogatory, insulting, abusive, destruction, and destructive.
Speaker 2: You know, they may start off by telling the guy, hey,
Speaker 2: we can help you. We're positive spirits. They sometimes know
Speaker 2: things that the patient himself doesn't even know, and once
Speaker 2: they get the victim's attention, sink their claws into them.
Speaker 2: Then they turn on them and it becomes a very
Speaker 2: negative experience. But consistently, these voices are telling these patients
Speaker 2: you're ugly, you're stupid, nobody likes you, you're retarded. People
Speaker 2: are just faking like they're your friends. You know, people
Speaker 2: are the cops are out to get you. Somebody's going
Speaker 2: to murder you. It's always distantly negative, stuff like you're worthless,
Speaker 2: you're crazy, you know whatever. I mean. It was consistently negative.
Speaker 2: And one of the first questions I had was what
Speaker 2: holds it on a consistently negative track? Why aren't these
Speaker 2: things random like regular hallucinations. They weren't. Something was holding
Speaker 2: them on that negative track, and that was consistent and
Speaker 2: it still is today, you know.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: They were also anti religious, which kind of surprised me.
Speaker 2: You know, I had one patient when I was working
Speaker 2: at the mental hospital. He came to me one day
Speaker 2: and he said, you know, the voices were attacking me
Speaker 2: last night and I just kept repeating the twenty third psalm.
Speaker 2: He said they reacted like worms thrown on a hot
Speaker 2: frying pan. I've found that very interesting, right, So I
Speaker 2: started passing out the twenty third Psalm to other schizophrenic
Speaker 2: patients and the responses were all very negative by the voices.
Speaker 2: The voices would tell them that's a bunch of crap.
Speaker 2: Stop this stuff. They would end up forgetting to read
Speaker 2: the psalm. When the voices came, they would lose the
Speaker 2: twenty third psalm. By the time they got back, they
Speaker 2: had either lost it or forgot to use it. But
Speaker 2: there was a lot of resistance to it, and the
Speaker 2: ones who did stick with it reported that the voices
Speaker 2: hated it. They rebelled against it. They made they gave
Speaker 2: them headaches. And it wasn't just a twenty third psalm.
Speaker 2: It was the Lord's Prayer and the number of other prayers.
Speaker 2: They didn't want them reading the Bible, they didn't want
Speaker 2: them going to church. And I'm like, what kind of
Speaker 2: hallucination would do that, you know? And it was consistent,
Speaker 2: It was totally consistent that these things were anti religious, antichrist.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just with Christianity. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: with any any positive religion, you know, Hinduism, Christian science,
Speaker 2: you know, the Mormons. I mean, they didn't want any
Speaker 2: part of any of that. Yeah, And I found that.
Speaker 2: I found that it's very odd. So I started asking
Speaker 2: him what happened when they went to church. And these
Speaker 2: were all people who heard voices. There were three categories
Speaker 2: they broke into. If the voices were very weak when
Speaker 2: they went to a church, the voices would shut up,
Speaker 2: they would just go quiet. If they were of moderate strength,
Speaker 2: they would get louder and stronger, and they would try
Speaker 2: to block the patient from listening to what the preacher
Speaker 2: had to say. They would say stuff like, he's stupid,
Speaker 2: look at this crap. Who's going to believe this stuff?
Speaker 2: You know, Jesus couldn't even save himself, What makes you
Speaker 2: think he's going to save you. It was just interfering
Speaker 2: with what the preacher was saying, so the person couldn't
Speaker 2: listen to it. If the voices were very strong, they
Speaker 2: would drive them out of the church. These people would
Speaker 2: get up and run out of the church, just absolutely
Speaker 2: run out of the church. They look like crazy people
Speaker 2: getting up and just running down the aisle and out
Speaker 2: of the church. Right, So that was another consistent thing.
Speaker 2: What kind of hallucination would consistently be anti religious?
Speaker 1: Now, when you say consistent, do you mean across the board?
Speaker 1: Even outside of the prison system. Every person you meet
Speaker 1: with schizophrenia has negative voices.
Speaker 2: Yes, they're huh. They're negative for one reason. They are
Speaker 2: energetic parasites. Every schizophrenic who gets it attacked by the
Speaker 2: voices will find that they have a massive loss of energy.
Speaker 2: They're completely wiped out. Now, I've remember one schizophrenic who
Speaker 2: I had an appointment with one day. He drug into
Speaker 2: the office. He said, you know, I couldn't sleep all night.
Speaker 2: The voices were attacking me. He said, I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been digging ditches and under the hot sun all day.
Speaker 2: Completely wiped out, no energy. Okay, So these things feed
Speaker 2: off of the negative energy they generate. So that's why
Speaker 2: they're consistently negative. They want to produce or induce negative
Speaker 2: thought they which generates negative emotion, and then they feed
Speaker 2: off of that. Interesting, so they are parasites now.
Speaker 1: Jerry let me ask you, have you noticed any common
Speaker 1: causes anything that people interact with are something that might
Speaker 1: initiate this more commonly that you've noticed.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's several things, you know, consistently associated with schizophrenia.
Speaker 2: There is usually horrendous physical, emotional, or sexual abuse. These
Speaker 2: people are, these people are wounded. Meth damphetamine opens up
Speaker 2: the door like, come on and get me. It's like
Speaker 2: a it's like an invitation for these things to enter
Speaker 2: m and it's really the end the that the prisoners
Speaker 2: called it the devil's drug. So I've talked to a
Speaker 2: number of prisoners who when they ran out of math,
Speaker 2: the voices would tell them where to be and when
Speaker 2: to be there, and some stranger would walk up with
Speaker 2: the meth say hey, you want some stuff?
Speaker 3: What you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that happened over and over and over again. They
Speaker 2: would see these entities called the shadow people were three
Speaker 2: dimensional shadows that would appear to them, and they never spoke,
Speaker 2: hardly ever spoke. I only know of one that did,
Speaker 2: and that story was chilling. But they would They would
Speaker 2: either have red or lime green eyes if they had
Speaker 2: if they could see the eyes at all, which aren't
Speaker 2: good colors for eyes. So most of the time they
Speaker 2: were just three dimensional humanoid shaped shadows that would appear
Speaker 2: in the bedroom. They would be darker than the rest
Speaker 2: of the bedroom or living room, They could walk through walls,
Speaker 2: they would peer at the appear at the base of
Speaker 2: the bed, and they would just scare these people half
Speaker 2: to death. They never said anything, but just the appearance.
Speaker 2: You can imagine what it would look like if you
Speaker 2: had a three dimensional black shadow appear in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night looking at you with lime green eyes.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: They would never talk, except in one case. There was
Speaker 2: one guy when I was working. I was working doing
Speaker 2: psychiatric evaluations in emergency rooms in hospitals around Tucson, and
Speaker 2: one night, and this was Christmas Eve, a guy came in.
Speaker 2: It was pretty quiet night except for him. He comes in.
Speaker 2: He's shaking like a leaf, you know, just just trembling
Speaker 2: and he couldn't stop. So when it came time to
Speaker 2: do his evaluation, I brought him in and he's shaking
Speaker 2: like a leaf, and I said, what's going on. He says, well,
Speaker 2: I'm hearing voices. And he told me he was using myth.
Speaker 2: He was injecting myth for ten years, and that got
Speaker 2: my attention up because he should have been dead five
Speaker 2: years ago. He shouldn't still be alive. So I went,
Speaker 2: there's there's something what's going on with this guy? There's
Speaker 2: something different about him. He was hearing voices, and I
Speaker 2: started asking him about the shadow people. Okay, Now I
Speaker 2: usually didn't give the eye information out to them. I
Speaker 2: would just ask them. So i'd ask him, do you
Speaker 2: see the shadow people? And he goes, yeah, I see
Speaker 2: them all the time. And I said, what color are
Speaker 2: their eyes? He told me the ones he saw were
Speaker 2: lime green m And I was just thinking, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: just I want this guy has been with Meth so long.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'll just ask him if he ever heard
Speaker 2: him talk. I said, did they ever speak to you?
Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, they did, and I said, uh,
Speaker 2: what did they tell you? And all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: he stopped, he stopped shaking, he stopped quivering, and he
Speaker 2: went dark still, and his eyes changed black. And I
Speaker 2: was looking at those eyes and they weren't the eyes
Speaker 2: of the guy I was looking looking at just a
Speaker 2: few moments before. Wow, And the intense hatred that came
Speaker 2: out of those eyes was nothing. I've like, no hatred.
Speaker 2: I've ever experienced in my entire life. I mean, it
Speaker 2: was just such an intense cold hatred that it was
Speaker 2: just chilling, you know. And one thing I learned you
Speaker 2: can't do with these guys is you can't break the gaze.
Speaker 3: You can't.
Speaker 2: You have to keep keep the contact up. You can't
Speaker 2: back away and run because then they got you.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: So here I am staring at this thing, and it's
Speaker 2: just it was chilling. It was absolutely chilling, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: how long is this going to go on? And then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, boom, it was gone, and he
Speaker 2: stopped shaking, his eyes returned to normal, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: holy now now, And I asked him again, what did
Speaker 2: they tell you? And he said, they told me to
Speaker 2: go out to the road and jump in front of
Speaker 2: a car. And said, well, what'd you do? He said,
Speaker 2: I went out to the road and I jumped in
Speaker 2: front of a car. They told me I wouldn't get hurt.
Speaker 2: So he jumped in front of a car. He got hit,
Speaker 2: knocked off to the side of the road. He said.
Speaker 2: When he woke up, he was circled by these shadow people.
Speaker 2: They were looking down at him and they told him
Speaker 2: get up you're not hurt. And he said he got
Speaker 2: up and he wasn't hurt.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I said, well what happened? Then he said, well,
Speaker 2: they told me to jump in front of another car
Speaker 2: I wouldn't get hurt. And he said he jumped in
Speaker 2: front of another one and he when he came around,
Speaker 2: he wasn't hurt. So I'm like, you know, like this
Speaker 2: is twilight zone, dudude. And so what was the other question?
Speaker 2: I asked him that there was another question I asked him,
Speaker 2: and then that that that eye, the eyes came back again,
Speaker 2: those dark eyes, you know, when I went to ask
Speaker 2: this other question, and his eyes were just black, and
Speaker 2: it was that same hatred. It was like a feeling
Speaker 2: like I'd rather slit your gut open and spill him
Speaker 2: all over this room then you know, say another word
Speaker 2: to you. Yeah, And that went on for like it
Speaker 2: must have been like twenty or thirty seconds, but it
Speaker 2: felt like an eternity, you know. It was that same
Speaker 2: cold hatred that I'd never experienced anything like it, you know,
Speaker 2: And then he came back to the way. He was
Speaker 2: shaking and quivering again, and then finally I went, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to ask him anything.
Speaker 3: Else.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm out of here. I'm gonna I'll write
Speaker 2: him up. We'll admit it, because he's he's out of it.
Speaker 2: This guy's he's out of it. He's controlled by something else.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And so I let him go. And then the psychiatric
Speaker 2: nurse came back into my office and said, I can't
Speaker 2: deal with this guy. What'd you get out of him?
Speaker 2: I'll write my report based on yours.
Speaker 3: M So.
Speaker 2: This was the first time I ever heard anybody report
Speaker 2: that the Shadow people spoke.
Speaker 3: Okay, but.
Speaker 2: You know, with regard to the myth, you were asking
Speaker 2: what triggers these things? You know, when they start using myth,
Speaker 2: they feel great, you know, like Superman Supercharged. You know,
Speaker 2: everything's gone, they got tons of energy, they don't know
Speaker 2: what to do with it all. They're feeling great like Superman,
Speaker 2: and you know, they keep using it because it feels great,
Speaker 2: and then one day they hear the voices, you know,
Speaker 2: and they go, oh, well, that's just loose nations. When
Speaker 2: you know, when I come down, the voices will disappear,
Speaker 2: and they do, so they keep using they hear the
Speaker 2: voices again. They're now convinced that these things are hallucinations.
Speaker 2: And when they come down, they'll go away, so there's
Speaker 2: nothing to worry about. Yeah, right, So that may happen,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five, thirty, fifty times, one hundred times,
Speaker 2: and then one day those voices don't go away and
Speaker 2: they're just as psychotic and schizophrenic as anybody on the
Speaker 2: psych ward and that they will hear those voices for
Speaker 2: the rest of their lives. Methods are very dangerous drug
Speaker 2: The prison is full of people who started off like that,
Speaker 2: and a number of them started off with the psychiatrists
Speaker 2: diagnosing them ADHD and then putting them on adderall or
Speaker 2: adoraks or writtling, which are all amphetamines. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: good psychiatric mafia for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's absolutely insane. Well, I guess to start an
Speaker 1: introduction into the healing modalities that you're currently using to
Speaker 1: help people, we can get to Judy's story a bit
Speaker 1: and some updates from her. Judy, introduce yourself a little
Speaker 1: bit and tell us about your story and what brought
Speaker 1: you to where you're at now.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm Judy Gregorson. I found Jerry at one
Speaker 3: point on the Internet and told him that I wanted
Speaker 3: to tell its story. I was by notes shrenic. When
Speaker 3: I was nineteen. It happened to me very quickly. I
Speaker 3: had a run up several years of a lot of trauma,
Speaker 3: a lot of pain, a couple of suicide attempts, and
Speaker 3: then one night I was smoking pot and I'd done
Speaker 3: previous to that, a lot of bells did. And so
Speaker 3: one night I was smoking pot and in my mind
Speaker 3: I saw a portal. It was a big door, and
Speaker 3: it was calling to me. So in my mind I
Speaker 3: went through that door and shut it behind me. And
Speaker 3: in that room or whatever it was, it was kind
Speaker 3: of a kind of a medium gray, almost like a fog.
Speaker 3: There was nothing there, but it's medium and gray, and
Speaker 3: I thought, okay, there's nothing here. I turned to get out,
Speaker 3: and when I tried to open the door, I couldn't
Speaker 3: get out. And my mind had really entered another, I think,
Speaker 3: another dimension. And that for me is when the voices started,
Speaker 3: and they started exactly as Jerry explains. You're no good,
Speaker 3: nobody loved you, You're crazy. The big thing with me
Speaker 3: was that I was crazy because my mother had a
Speaker 3: breakdown when I was thirteen, and I feared that more
Speaker 3: than anything in the world, having a breakdown and she'd
Speaker 3: gone into a psych hospital, so that for me was
Speaker 3: a real weak point, and they played on that and
Speaker 3: they told me that I was crazy, that I was
Speaker 3: going good, that I would never get out. I was
Speaker 3: trapped forever. I had four voices, three male, one female,
Speaker 3: kind of lived in the four corners of my head inside.
Speaker 3: They were inside, they went outside, and I thought that
Speaker 3: my mind had shattered and I now had multiple personalities.
Speaker 3: But the psychiatrist diagnosed me as paranoid schizophrenic and put
Speaker 3: me on drugs, and then I started this long what
Speaker 3: I called the Doldrums, is about three and a half
Speaker 3: four years of living with the drugs, living with the voices,
Speaker 3: the voices becoming more more flowers on the drugs, the
Speaker 3: more numb I got more it became like my thoughts.
Speaker 3: But there were attacks would come, and like Gerry talks about,
Speaker 3: when the attacks come, they do they drain you, absolutely
Speaker 3: suck everything out of you. And a part of that,
Speaker 3: I think, is that you're fighting to survive. I was
Speaker 3: always fighting to not go to next level. I could.
Speaker 3: I could see myself on the edge of a cliff,
Speaker 3: and I could look down and see there were lower
Speaker 3: levels of schizophrenia that it could get worse, and so
Speaker 3: I was fighting always to stay at what level.
Speaker 2: I was, Judy, What did you think those voices were
Speaker 2: when they first started, I didn't.
Speaker 3: Know what they were. I I mean, they began to
Speaker 3: torment me, and they would talk to each other. One
Speaker 3: would say, oh, look, she's so crazy, and the other
Speaker 3: one would say, oh, don't be hard on her, she's
Speaker 3: just screwed up. The other one would say, no, she's crazy.
Speaker 3: They'd alarague over how crazy I was my head. So
Speaker 3: I thought that this breakdown, because he told me I
Speaker 3: had a complete psychotic breakdown. Whatever that meant, I don't
Speaker 3: know what that minute, but explained it apparently. So I
Speaker 3: figured my mind had chattered, had gone into four pieces,
Speaker 3: and these four pieces of myself were talking to me.
Speaker 3: I had no idea that it was spirits or negative
Speaker 3: entities or demons.
Speaker 2: And that's what they want the victim to believe that
Speaker 2: those voices are them, that they belong to them, and
Speaker 2: that now they are them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I work now with a lot of schizophrenics.
Speaker 3: I do deliverance. I work with schizophrenics. I see the
Speaker 3: patterns that Garry talks about over and over what I
Speaker 3: call chaos mind people whose mind they come in, their
Speaker 3: minds are so they've got the voices, but not only
Speaker 3: the voices. They got all this noise, all this confusion.
Speaker 3: There's always all this confusion that goes with it. And
Speaker 3: I see people like Harry talks about who we're seeing things.
Speaker 3: I have one client who sees shadow people, he sees lights,
Speaker 3: he sees creatures, which he doesn't explain what they are.
Speaker 3: I've had clients who see organs will come into their
Speaker 3: bedrooms night and talk to them wow and tell them things.
Speaker 3: I have one client who had these orbs and she
Speaker 3: sent me videos of it. They'd come into her room
Speaker 3: at night, they were telling her things, and they were
Speaker 3: telling her that her husband was cheating on her and
Speaker 3: where he was, and she checked on it and it
Speaker 3: was true. So she began to create a relationship with
Speaker 3: this because she thought it was working for her good.
Speaker 3: But as she began to create a relationship with it,
Speaker 3: she found herself, like Jerry said, boom, one day, you're schizophrenic.
Speaker 3: So I was in that world for a long time.
Speaker 3: There was no there was no help. You know, the
Speaker 3: doctors put young drugs and you're told that that's it.
Speaker 3: That's what your life is going to be. And I
Speaker 3: lived my college years through that. Finally finally flunked out
Speaker 3: of college, finally got some help from a therapist who
Speaker 3: was just a young guy out of college. Will helped
Speaker 3: me deal with what Darry was talking about. They all
Speaker 3: come with trauma, sexual trauma, rejection, trauma, childhood trauma, great trauma.
Speaker 3: It seems that they all have some of that. And
Speaker 3: I found a guy who was willing to help me
Speaker 3: bring that up to the surface and find healing. And
Speaker 3: as I did that, the voices got weaker and weaker,
Speaker 3: and the attacks got fewer and fewer, and eventually I
Speaker 3: was able to get free when I met a woman
Speaker 3: from Philadelphia evangelists who told me they were demons, and
Speaker 3: she told me that I could tell them to go
Speaker 3: in the name of Jesus Christ. So I began to
Speaker 3: do that, and they left, and then they'd come back,
Speaker 3: and then I tell them to go, and they would leave,
Speaker 3: and then they'd come back and test me. And then
Speaker 3: I told them to go, and they'd leave, and then
Speaker 3: they come back and test me, and then eventually they
Speaker 3: gave up. It was over. But the interesting thing to
Speaker 3: me was that the first time that I told them
Speaker 3: to go, and they left, and they took that whole
Speaker 3: spiritual de mention with them that they'd bring with them
Speaker 3: when they were gone. That left, and my mind was
Speaker 3: perfectly normal. And that shocked me because I was They
Speaker 3: had convinced me that I was crazy. And when I realized, wow,
Speaker 3: I feel like I did when I was eighteen. I
Speaker 3: feel normal.
Speaker 1: Along with the voices came this strange feeling accompanying the
Speaker 1: voices constantly. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3: There was? Yeah, it's hard to explain. I explained it
Speaker 3: that it was like my mind was in one dimension
Speaker 3: and my body was in this world, but my mind
Speaker 3: had gone to another dimension. And in that dimension it
Speaker 3: was void of anything good. There was no good feeling,
Speaker 3: there was no love, there was no peace. It was torment.
Speaker 3: Twenty four hours a day, day night you woke up
Speaker 3: the middle night, the dormant started. There was chaos. I
Speaker 3: meet people now that come to me in the dombinay
Speaker 3: of chaos brain, and I understand that because their mind
Speaker 3: is in chaos. There's the voices, there's the fighting the voices,
Speaker 3: and the arguing with the voices. Although some people make
Speaker 3: relationships with them. They think that's the tumble and it
Speaker 3: ends up to the to do that.
Speaker 2: And they're going to go back to something you said
Speaker 2: just a minute ago, because it's a it's very important.
Speaker 2: Is when you you said, when the voices disappeared, your
Speaker 2: mind turned back to normal.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: What that is is that the voices are the cause.
Speaker 2: I've seen that over and over again. You know the
Speaker 2: psychiatric mafius says, oh, yeah, the mothers that cause schizophrenia.
Speaker 2: They started off with that, then they went to the
Speaker 2: jenine jeans, the genes caused schizophrenia. The latest lie they
Speaker 2: come up with is there's a biochemical imbalance of the brain. No,
Speaker 2: it's the voices. If you can get rid of the
Speaker 2: voices by any means, the person will return back to normal.
Speaker 2: It's the voices that cause schizophrenia. The battle is with
Speaker 2: the voices.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the interesting thing is that when the voices
Speaker 3: are gone. I had spent nearly four years with my
Speaker 3: mind and chaos, and I see that with the people
Speaker 3: I work with. When you get read of the voices,
Speaker 3: that quietness and that piece feels overwhelming to them. It
Speaker 3: almost feels like emptiness. I have one one client who
Speaker 3: told me for a month. I didn't know what to
Speaker 3: do because I was so quiet, He goes. It scared
Speaker 3: me because my mind had not been quiet twenty years.
Speaker 3: All I'd done its fight, he says. Then I walk
Speaker 3: up one day and I realized, oh, I could go
Speaker 3: play with my kid. I don't have to center everything
Speaker 3: on my head and my thoughts, because as a schizophrenic,
Speaker 3: you're constantly in its battle to hold some ground, or
Speaker 3: to hold yourself, to not completely lose everything that des
Speaker 3: you because they take your identity, they tell you who
Speaker 3: you are. You are no good, you have no future,
Speaker 3: You'll never get free, You're nobody, nobody loves you, nobody
Speaker 3: wants you. Your life is over. You're gonna end up dead,
Speaker 3: you know. So you hear that for so long, So
Speaker 3: when those voices are gone, it's like you've then got
Speaker 3: to I had to. I spent years rebuilding my mind,
Speaker 3: getting rid of the negative thoughts that were not now
Speaker 3: coming into my head. But the beliefs, I'll say more
Speaker 3: than the believer. I began to believe everything they told me.
Speaker 3: So when the voices were gone, I had to realize
Speaker 3: I'm not bad. That was like a shock too. I'm
Speaker 3: not a bad person. Now. I've been told that and
Speaker 3: pounded with that for so long.
Speaker 2: So I had one patient when we got rid of
Speaker 2: the voices, he almost fell out of his chair and
Speaker 2: he said, the silence is deafening.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's scary, crazy because they don't know what to
Speaker 3: do with silence. And you know the thing that I
Speaker 3: think is scary for schiptophonic, especially the ones that create
Speaker 3: a relationship with these things, because they get into conversations
Speaker 3: with them, they begin to believe them. I've got one
Speaker 3: client who actually told me of the day that that
Speaker 3: his that his demon told him that they made themselves
Speaker 3: invisible so I couldn't see them. And I said, I
Speaker 3: don't need to see them. I know they're there. I said,
Speaker 3: I don't need to hear them. I've heard them and
Speaker 3: they talked to me. They'll either talk to me telepathically
Speaker 3: or they'll talk through a person. I said, I don't
Speaker 3: need to hear them see them. I know they're there.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't it doesn't matter if I can see
Speaker 3: them or hear them. I can still get rid of them.
Speaker 3: Them to go, and they have to go, and I've
Speaker 3: had to argue with them. I've had demons tell me,
Speaker 3: this one belongs to me. You can't have her, and
Speaker 3: I say, well, that's great, now get out Jesus name,
Speaker 3: get out of here. And they go, but they'll argue
Speaker 3: with you, some of them on the way out.
Speaker 1: Due to your experience was primarily auditory. Did you have
Speaker 1: any visual events occur?
Speaker 3: No, but I had a lot of lost time, Okay,
Speaker 3: periods of time where I didn't know where I'd been.
Speaker 3: I had times when I'd look in the mirror and
Speaker 3: I didn't know who I was. I kind of thought
Speaker 3: that I looked familiar. I wasn't sure that I was me.
Speaker 3: And Jerry would understand that more than I do. Maybe
Speaker 3: that's dissociation. I had a lot of that going on
Speaker 3: in between all this. Maybe that was a coping mechanism. No,
Speaker 3: my doctor never dealt with that, never talked about that, Jerry.
Speaker 1: Has this ever led to what's considered full on possession
Speaker 1: in a person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that a handful of times, not often.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: What Judy is describing is they were moving to try
Speaker 2: to take complete control of her, which is what they do.
Speaker 2: You know, once they take control, then the person you
Speaker 2: know becomes of you know, one of these guys that
Speaker 2: goes out and kills a whole bunch of people, and
Speaker 2: just a lot of people indiscriminately. You know, they hate
Speaker 2: the human race. You know, they want to break up families,
Speaker 2: that want to break up marriages. They want control, you know,
Speaker 2: And you know there's fifty thousand people in the United
Speaker 2: States kill themselves every year. You know, where do the
Speaker 2: thoughts come from?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: For them to kill themselves? That's against every instinct a
Speaker 2: human being has. And a great number of them are
Speaker 2: on any psychotic and any depressant medications. So that tells
Speaker 2: you how effective psychiatry is. None of those drugs that
Speaker 2: they're pumping into anybody cures anything. They merely dumb down
Speaker 2: the symptoms. And unless they understand that the cause of
Speaker 2: schizophrenia is not some made up lie by Eli Lilly
Speaker 2: saying that, you know, the chemicals in the brain are
Speaker 2: out of control or imbalanced. You know, anybody who goes
Speaker 2: to a psychiatrist is going to come out with some
Speaker 2: kind of medication. And you watch what they do with schizophrenics.
Speaker 2: I've been with my patients a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about what they're giving them.
Speaker 1: As far as drugs.
Speaker 2: They've given them a whole series of antipsychotic benzodiazepines, which
Speaker 2: are young major tranquilizers. But you look what they do
Speaker 2: when they go in there. They will tell you ask them, hey,
Speaker 2: what causes schizophrenic they will tell you the line that
Speaker 2: they were brainwashed with in medical school. Oh, it's a
Speaker 2: chemical and balance of the brain. But then you watch
Speaker 2: what they do. They'll ask the guy a handful of questions, Oh,
Speaker 2: you're hearing voices, or you're depressed. Can you sleep at night? Da?
Speaker 2: Da da? And then they right away they'll prescribe some
Speaker 2: toxic drug. So if it were an actual chemical and
Speaker 2: balance of the brain, you might want to think that
Speaker 2: they would, you know, give some blood test or some
Speaker 2: kind of EEG or some kind of objective test to
Speaker 2: find out which drugs in the which chemicals in the
Speaker 2: brain were out of balance, or by how much. You
Speaker 2: won't see it. It doesn't exist. There is no test
Speaker 2: for a chemical imbalance of the brain. That's a complete
Speaker 2: lie made up by Eli Lilly in the sixties when
Speaker 2: they came out with prozac to try to explain why
Speaker 2: that that crap works. And it doesn't work that well,
Speaker 2: if at all, right, But the brain.
Speaker 3: Was broken, there was a chemical imbalance. It's not possible
Speaker 3: that when you get rid of the spirit that they
Speaker 3: would bring their back to normal. Chemical balances just don't
Speaker 3: go back like that. They just don't.
Speaker 2: They They have no test for it whatsoever. There is
Speaker 2: no objective test for either schizophrenic or any other mental illness.
Speaker 2: There's no objective test for even one of the almost
Speaker 2: three hundred psychiatric diagnosies that they have in their DSM,
Speaker 2: their psychic Bible.
Speaker 3: All of those.
Speaker 2: Illnesses are made up. They're groups of behavior that they
Speaker 2: have turned into a mental illness. And then two thirds
Speaker 2: of the people who vote on it are associated with
Speaker 2: big Pharma. So they're making up more and more mental
Speaker 2: illnesses every year, and then they come up with some
Speaker 2: kind of toxic drug to treat the symptoms. There is
Speaker 2: no cure. They have no cure for anything.
Speaker 1: Would you say much of what people experience as mental
Speaker 1: illness has more of a spiritual foundation than we would think?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think that. Would I say, doing MACE
Speaker 3: and also doing deliverance, is there people who come from
Speaker 3: backgrounds with trauma, people who have had what in MACE
Speaker 3: we call upsets, big upsets that they are very vulnerable
Speaker 3: to these voices who will tell them all kinds of things.
Speaker 3: Although they don't realize it's a voice. They think it's
Speaker 3: their own thought. I'm no good. I mean, that's typical
Speaker 3: during treat to see that mays all the time, I'm
Speaker 3: no good. Where'd that idea come from?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 3: Why? Why does somebody in the middle of an upset
Speaker 3: turn on themselves and say I'm no good. I think
Speaker 3: it's a suggestion from outside. I'm no good. I'll never
Speaker 3: be a good I'll always be a failure. Where where
Speaker 3: do those things come from? That's all that negative messaging.
Speaker 3: And I see people with depression who have had the
Speaker 3: same messaging with anxiety, and it's the same messaging. So
Speaker 3: it's not just schizophrenics, it's it's everybody. And it's in
Speaker 3: Jerry talking about it some other shows. They talk to everybody,
Speaker 3: They talk to you, they talk to me. Yeah, negative suggestions.
Speaker 3: And I've I've come to the conclusion that when I
Speaker 3: get a negative thought, I check it at the door.
Speaker 3: I literally do. And I think I'd say, who's this benefit?
Speaker 3: Does it benefit me to be thinking it's about myself
Speaker 3: about somebody else about the world? What benefit is in it,
Speaker 3: and if the answers there's none, I get rid of it.
Speaker 3: I talk it up, dude, that's you know, that's another
Speaker 3: entity talking to me. But they everybody and people don't
Speaker 3: realize that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can insert thoughts into your mind that sound
Speaker 2: exactly like the tens of thousands of thoughts that go
Speaker 2: through your mind on a given day, that there is
Speaker 2: no where are the voices. It sounds just just like
Speaker 2: all the other thoughts that you're having. But there is
Speaker 2: no intention there. It doesn't have a good intent, you
Speaker 2: know there is. It's negative. And what's interesting is, you
Speaker 2: know with the mace they like Judy was saying, there's
Speaker 2: something called the negative identity that occurs during a trauma. So,
Speaker 2: and what Judy was saying is during that trauma, the
Speaker 2: person makes a decision about themselves and it's never a
Speaker 2: good decision. You don't make a good decision when you're
Speaker 2: in the midst of a trauma. And what's interesting is
Speaker 2: why is that decision always negative and against oneself? So
Speaker 2: I think that's at the moment where these things come
Speaker 2: in and go, this horrible thing happened to you Because
Speaker 2: you're this way, it's never anything good. You know, it's
Speaker 2: never anything like, oh, well, you saved all these people
Speaker 2: and uh, you know it's uh, it's it's always something bad.
Speaker 2: You know, you're you're bad, You're worthless. Uh and worthlessness.
Speaker 2: This is one of the biggest ones I see in
Speaker 2: in the MACE practice. Yeah, you know, I'm feeling worthless.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling uh no good, useless, Uh hopeless, hopeless.
Speaker 3: Hopeless, useless, no good. It's all negative and they're so
Speaker 3: they're so common. But you know something you ought to
Speaker 3: know too, though. I have people come to me and
Speaker 3: all this voice is talking and started out is really fun.
Speaker 3: Stuff started out as somebody thinking, oh, they have an
Speaker 3: energetic being talking to them. I have one client that
Speaker 3: came to me. They were teaching her about energy medicine.
Speaker 3: They were telling her what to research. They actually had
Speaker 3: her up in the middle of the night, driving around
Speaker 3: the car and training her to obey them to turn
Speaker 3: left and to turn right. They spent a whole month
Speaker 3: training her and coaching her and grooming her by pretending
Speaker 3: to be friendly and warm.
Speaker 2: And helping her, and that's common.
Speaker 3: After thirty days, she woke up and she was a
Speaker 3: schizophrenic and she's like, how did I how did how
Speaker 3: did I get here? And we had to unwind all
Speaker 3: that and she's fine now, she's doing really well. She's healed.
Speaker 3: She's not a schizophrenic anymore. And but it started out
Speaker 3: as such a fun little product because she was she
Speaker 3: was into energy. That was her thing, so she thought
Speaker 3: these were this was just positive energy from the universe.
Speaker 3: She would be talking to you. I said, be careful
Speaker 3: who you're talking to. You don't know who's going to
Speaker 3: answer you. It's like, oh maybe maybe you will not
Speaker 3: be talking. No, talk to somebody you know by name.
Speaker 3: Don't don't be talking the inverse because it's going to answer.
Speaker 3: It's a provert says, if you look for trouble, it
Speaker 3: will find you. I think the corollaria that is, if
Speaker 3: you look into things that you shouldn't be looking into,
Speaker 3: it will find you.
Speaker 2: And Wiji boards are another one. People think they're a game.
Speaker 2: Those things should be outlawed. They're very dangerous. I don't
Speaker 2: know how many people I've talked to over the years
Speaker 2: who started out with Wuiji boards, you know, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden the entity they were talking to
Speaker 2: on the Wiji board appeared in their head and started
Speaker 2: talking to them. They are not toys. They're dangerous.
Speaker 3: I don't one time call me from the East coast.
Speaker 3: She called me up and she was screaming, and my
Speaker 3: husband sitting next to me, going hang up, hang up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I got to know what you're saying.
Speaker 3: And she's screaming, and she's going, I've done everything. I've
Speaker 3: done Witchcraft, I've done new Aide, I've done Rique, I've
Speaker 3: done Reachboard, I've done park cart, I've done everything she does.
Speaker 3: And then she heard Jerry. She said, I heard Jerry
Speaker 3: Marzinski and he said that they don't like the name
Speaker 3: of Jesus. She said, so, I when they came to me,
Speaker 3: I told him go away in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 3: And she says they left m and she said so.
Speaker 3: She says, I'm here. She did. I didn't know her
Speaker 3: from Adam. She's like, I'm here because I'm done. I'm
Speaker 3: done with all that stuff. I want you to get
Speaker 3: rid of this stuff for me, in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 3: And I said, fine, let's get rid of it.
Speaker 1: This is a common theme I hear with many New
Speaker 1: Age practitioners. Channelers. Eventually they come to realize that what
Speaker 1: they've been speaking with does not have their best interest
Speaker 1: in mind at all. Let's get into some of the
Speaker 1: healing modalities. You mentioned MACE a few times, Jerry, I
Speaker 1: know that there are other kinds of modalities. Duty you
Speaker 1: got rid of your voices with your faith in Christ,
Speaker 1: there seems to be different modalities to get rid of
Speaker 1: these things, So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, See, MACE is it's like a it's a it's
Speaker 2: a good precursor to to what Judy is doing because
Speaker 2: there's always trauma. And that's what MACE does, is it
Speaker 2: dissolves trauma, and it doesn't in like an hour, it's gone.
Speaker 2: So all this trauma that these entities are feeding off of,
Speaker 2: you know what happens when there's a trauma. There's a
Speaker 2: bad feeling that goes along with it, and there's a
Speaker 2: decision as to what part the victim played in that trauma.
Speaker 2: That decision is virtually always negative. And I think that's
Speaker 2: the point where these entities come in and tell the person,
Speaker 2: you know, this happened because you're worthless, or this happened
Speaker 2: because you're stupid, or this happened because of whatever. So
Speaker 2: it's like they're most vulnerable at the time of the trauma.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like what hypnotists do. They create a
Speaker 2: distraction or a confusion, and then they put a suggestion
Speaker 2: in there. So I think these things at the moment
Speaker 2: of that trauma, they put in a suggestion. You're stupid,
Speaker 2: or you're worthless, or or you're ugly, or nobody likes
Speaker 2: you because of whatever this trauma is. So what the
Speaker 2: ego does that hurts? I mean, it stays there and
Speaker 2: it torments the person for a long time, and then
Speaker 2: after a while, the ego shows up and goes, hey,
Speaker 2: you're not doing good with this. It just remunerating going
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. Let me handle this.
Speaker 2: So it takes it and it throws it into your
Speaker 2: subconscious mind and then it locks it down. So now
Speaker 2: it's not in the victim's face all the time, but
Speaker 2: it is in the subconscious mind, and it's still alive,
Speaker 2: and it's still affecting their behavior, how they interpret reality,
Speaker 2: how they react to people, what they say, what they do,
Speaker 2: what they think. It's still there, So it's like a
Speaker 2: computer virus operating in the background, and it takes a
Speaker 2: lot of energy to keep it up there, fenced off.
Speaker 2: So now it becomes like a landmine. You know, when
Speaker 2: somebody shows up who reminds that person of the of
Speaker 2: the person who uh traumatized them in the first place,
Speaker 2: that thing blows and it tells them, tells the person, hey,
Speaker 2: this guy's a little bit too close to the person
Speaker 2: who traumatized you in the first place. Either attack them,
Speaker 2: or avoid them, or run from them, you know. And
Speaker 2: so it projects that garbage out onto somebody else out
Speaker 2: there when it's actually in their mind, in their subconscious mind,
Speaker 2: and it will go off over and over again, and
Speaker 2: each time it does it gets stronger and stronger. So
Speaker 2: it causes a lot of trouble. It's like the person
Speaker 2: you hate, you know that every time this particular type
Speaker 2: of person shows up, you can just feel it in
Speaker 2: your gut. You don't like them. They don't even have
Speaker 2: to open their mouth and you don't like them. So
Speaker 2: that thing stays there and causes a lot of psychological
Speaker 2: damage and a lot of trauma all through the person's life.
Speaker 2: What MACE does is it takes that thing and it
Speaker 2: hooks up to the person's spirit. Okay, so there's a
Speaker 2: process to do that. The spirit is positive, okay, negative
Speaker 2: energy moves toward positive energy. So the maze process will
Speaker 2: identify that thing and then turn it into an image
Speaker 2: and hook it up to the person's spirit, which will
Speaker 2: then dismantle it. It won't destroy that energy, but it
Speaker 2: will turn it into positive energy. So the person, once
Speaker 2: they're done the macee process, will feel more energy, and
Speaker 2: they will feel clearer, and they'll feel lighter, and they
Speaker 2: won't have that garbage there anymore. So now when that
Speaker 2: particular kind of person shows up, there's going to be
Speaker 2: a much more rational response. It won't be an irrational reaction.
Speaker 2: It'll be more a response so that brings them closer
Speaker 2: to who they really are, and that all that can
Speaker 2: happen within an hour. So mace is what we call
Speaker 2: a psycho energetic therapy. It's not anything like traditional therapy.
Speaker 2: It was invented by a boat captain who drove these
Speaker 2: big freighters back and forth across the ocean, and he
Speaker 2: always was interested in how the mind worked. He spent
Speaker 2: his whole life trying to figure out how the mind work,
Speaker 2: and then he came up with this process and it works.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've tried all kinds of therapies of my
Speaker 2: whole life, and this works better than anything I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: So what I've seen is with some of the exorcist
Speaker 2: I've worked with, is they can drive these things out,
Speaker 2: but if the trauma that attracted them in the first
Speaker 2: place isn't taken care of, they'll eventually come back. So
Speaker 2: it's like they said in the Bible. You know, you
Speaker 2: can clean out the house, you know, but if you
Speaker 2: don't replace it with something else, you know, clean it out,
Speaker 2: replace it with something else, these things will be back,
Speaker 2: you know, tenfold.
Speaker 1: Jerry, you said something interesting earlier that these things respond
Speaker 1: negative to any kind of positive spiritual archetypes. Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah. They don't want the person to be happy. They
Speaker 2: don't want them watching America's Funniest videos. They want them
Speaker 2: to be depressed. They don't want them to be happy.
Speaker 2: They destroy families. They they will turn against anybody who
Speaker 2: tries to help the victim, you know, So if the
Speaker 2: mom and dad are trying to help their son or daughter,
Speaker 2: they will turn against them and have that that son
Speaker 2: or daughter costs so much turmoil in the family that
Speaker 2: the mom and dad are relieved when they go to
Speaker 2: their bedroom and close the door and stay there by themselves.
Speaker 2: That's the worst thing you could allow them to do,
Speaker 2: because that allows them complete access to the victim.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Jerry, the other thing I've seen them
Speaker 3: do with families is that they get the parents so
Speaker 3: engaged in the in the in the entities that the
Speaker 3: parents are now asking the son or daughter, what are
Speaker 3: they saying to you? You know, what's going on, so
Speaker 3: that the whole family folds into this hole with the schizophrenic.
Speaker 3: I've seen that a couple of times, and pulling that
Speaker 3: whole family out is really hard because again, they've established
Speaker 3: a relationship with its entity and it's actually frightening to
Speaker 3: seeing parents and I've seen it a couple of times
Speaker 3: and there was no one winding it. They were in
Speaker 3: so deep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry, had you worked with exorcists before? Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one at the prison. You know, he
Speaker 2: would he would drive those things out. Now, he wanted
Speaker 2: to stay under cover because he didn't want the administration
Speaker 2: to know he was doing that. But you know, at
Speaker 2: that point, I didn't know Mace. I didn't have any
Speaker 2: idea of anything that could really help these guys, and
Speaker 2: these things would disappear, but they still had that trauma there,
Speaker 2: which attracted these things back, all right. So these voices
Speaker 2: are like sharks. They go after the wounded ones, you know,
Speaker 2: or lions or tigers they get. They go after the
Speaker 2: wounded in the in the pack that are not quite
Speaker 2: as strong as the others, and they will attack them.
Speaker 2: So they're like sharks in the ocean who smell blood.
Speaker 2: They're attracted to negative mental, negative motion.
Speaker 3: Also they also isolate them, Yes, they isolate them. They
Speaker 3: get them alone so they can have more control on them.
Speaker 3: They the people gauzopranics will begin to hang out in
Speaker 3: their room and they'll cut off their friends, cut off
Speaker 3: their family, they'll cut off their life. Pretty soon, they
Speaker 3: can't work, you know. Pretty soon they're they're just stuck
Speaker 3: in a room by themselves. I have one client that
Speaker 3: i've done deliverance with and this goes with what Derry
Speaker 3: would say. And then deliverance with them five or six times.
Speaker 3: I can get rid of the denons. But the problem
Speaker 3: is you won't deal with the trauma. He won't deal
Speaker 3: with filling himself up with the good stuff and dealing
Speaker 3: with bad stuff, the negative identities that he has in him.
Speaker 3: And so they come back. And that's I see that
Speaker 3: once in a while, but that one person. It's been
Speaker 3: ongoing for a year and I finally probably I can't
Speaker 3: help you if you're not going to do what you
Speaker 3: need to do.
Speaker 1: And what does MACE stand for?
Speaker 2: That's the name of the guy who ented the system?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Had I had one patient that I've worked with for
Speaker 2: like six months. We finally got rid of the voices.
Speaker 2: This was in the prison, and he was the one
Speaker 2: that said, you know, when they disappeared, they screamed and
Speaker 2: he almost fell out of the chair. You know, he's
Speaker 2: the one that said that silence is deafening. So I
Speaker 2: checked back with him six months later and I said,
Speaker 2: how you doing? And he goes doing well. He was
Speaker 2: working for motor vehicle in the prison, answering questions to callers,
Speaker 2: and I said, how are you doing with the voices?
Speaker 2: He said. I asked him to come back, and I said,
Speaker 2: what in the blazes did you do that for? And
Speaker 2: he says, I was lonely. So what happens is once
Speaker 2: they cut off all other living beings out of their life,
Speaker 2: then all they have is the voices.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had one client that did that. He cut
Speaker 3: off his friends, he cut off everybody and I asked him,
Speaker 3: why why have you chosen isolated? Is why I don't
Speaker 3: need anything else. They make me laugh, they talk to me,
Speaker 3: they're my friends, They're everything I need. And he would
Speaker 3: walk around the house laughing and his parents would say,
Speaker 3: what are you laughing at? How they just told me
Speaker 3: a joke? And he liked jokes. He had a good
Speaker 3: sense of humor. So they became his whole life. So
Speaker 3: they isolate them so they can have all of them.
Speaker 1: Last few minutes, is there anything that we didn't cover
Speaker 1: that either of you feel the audience should hear about,
Speaker 1: as well as what should a person do if they
Speaker 1: believe that they're afflicted by these voices? What would you
Speaker 1: recommend Jared?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I first recommend mace to get rid
Speaker 2: of the you know, the trauma. Now, another thing we
Speaker 2: have on my website is something called that that's a
Speaker 2: lie program, because these voices are consummate liars. They lie
Speaker 2: about everything. You can't trust anything they say, you know,
Speaker 2: and if they do tell you a truth, it's only
Speaker 2: to trap you and stab you in the back later.
Speaker 2: So Sherry Sweeney, the my co author in this book here,
Speaker 2: which talks about how we discovered that these voices are
Speaker 2: entities and not hallucinations. She came up with a program
Speaker 2: that she offers free on my website at Jerrymarzinski dot com.
Speaker 2: It's called that That's a lie program. It works well
Speaker 2: for abusive, intrusive thoughts. It works well with these voices
Speaker 2: because it talks about there's like three sections to it,
Speaker 2: absolutely free. You go to my website at Jerrymarsinski dot com.
Speaker 2: Then go to articles under articles, leaf down the page
Speaker 2: and you'll see it that that's a lie program. If
Speaker 2: you don't believe what these things are telling you, they
Speaker 2: can't get their claws in you, So go to the
Speaker 2: website visit that. The second thing is for those of
Speaker 2: you who are working with schizophrenics and don't believe these
Speaker 2: things are entities. Again, go to my website jerrymarsinski dot
Speaker 2: com under articles and find the patterns that these voices run.
Speaker 2: Take them and ask your schizophrenics if they aren't the
Speaker 2: voices aren't running those patterns. This is an operational definition
Speaker 2: of schizophrenia. And you'll see for yourself. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't need to have any what do you call it,
Speaker 2: peer reviewed anything? You just go there, pull up that
Speaker 2: list and ask them yourselves. Are the voices negative? Are
Speaker 2: they anti religious? Do they foster and create negative emotion?
Speaker 2: Are they energetically drinraining you? And twenty three other such patterns,
Speaker 2: and you'll see for yourself what these things are. You know,
Speaker 2: the psychiatric mafia is making billions of dollars every year
Speaker 2: and along with the big pharma selling these toxic chemicals
Speaker 2: that they feed you telling you that there is no
Speaker 2: other treatment for schizophrenia other than their toxic medications. And
Speaker 2: these antipsychotics with long term use will do permanent neurological damage.
Speaker 2: I've seen it over and over again at the State hospital.
Speaker 2: These people get to the point where they can't walk
Speaker 2: with a normal gate, they start shuffling. You know, almost
Speaker 2: everybody who takes those drugs eventually goes off them because
Speaker 2: they can't tolerate their toxic side effects. Now that's not
Speaker 2: to say that there aren't people who need these things.
Speaker 2: I mean I've run into patients that were so violent
Speaker 2: and so out of it that that's the only thing
Speaker 2: that would work with them, other than keeping them in
Speaker 2: a straightjack or chain to the wall all day. So
Speaker 2: they have their place, but it's not constant, never ending use.
Speaker 2: You know, this garbage that psychiatry is feeding people is
Speaker 2: that there is no hope. Once you've got schizophrenia, it
Speaker 2: will always be schizophrenic, it will never end. It's a
Speaker 2: complete and utter lie. It's a hopeless, deceptive lie.
Speaker 3: My website which is Strategies for Overcovers, there's all kinds
Speaker 3: of free material and there are free books on Deliverance now.
Speaker 3: And Deliverance is a Christian ministry, and I work mostly
Speaker 3: with Christians, although I do interception with people who aren't
Speaker 3: really There are a lot of people who just don't
Speaker 3: believe in Jesus and I'll do intersection with them, and
Speaker 3: I've actually seen tremendous results just for that. There's lots
Speaker 3: of free materials. But like Jerry, I work with a
Speaker 3: lot of people. I do the mace with them. I
Speaker 3: get rid of the trauma, the triggers, the depression, the anxiety,
Speaker 3: the fears. All that stuff dissolves with mace, you know,
Speaker 3: and then you can get rid of the spiritual stuff.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I do it the other way around. I get
Speaker 3: rid of the spiritual garbage first and then I do mace.
Speaker 3: And sometimes for me makes it easier to do maze
Speaker 3: because I don't have the voices interrupting, which I've found
Speaker 3: and they will do.
Speaker 2: When they do, they jump in there and they'll go
Speaker 2: this guy's in a nutcase. Don't listen to him. This
Speaker 2: is a bunch of crap. They'll do anything they can
Speaker 2: to interfere with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I also on my website there are two
Speaker 3: videos of two men who, through deliverance, have been cured.
Speaker 3: Don't take cured. They've been freed from schizophrenia. I don't
Speaker 3: use the word cure. I don't cure anyone. They've been freed.
Speaker 3: And one is a fairly short video. They're the ones
Speaker 3: longer me Andrews a little bit, but it tells the
Speaker 3: story of people who have gotten free. So people know
Speaker 3: this is not a permanent diagnosis. Doesn't happen to be.
Speaker 3: The other thing I would say is that and I
Speaker 3: the Jerry degree with this. People have to be ready
Speaker 3: to do this. I have I have parents who call me.
Speaker 3: I have brothers and sisters who call me that they're
Speaker 3: you know, their their brother schezophrenic. And he's been like
Speaker 3: this for ten years. And what I help him? The
Speaker 3: first thing I ask is does he want help? Yeah?
Speaker 3: It is he desperate for help? Is he ready for he?
Speaker 3: Is he willing to do whatever it's going to take. Well,
Speaker 3: you know I said listen, when your brother's ready, you
Speaker 3: know you have my phone number, call me. But I
Speaker 3: won't take on anyone who isn't ready to make the change.
Speaker 3: That's when you see results, and you see extraordinary results.
Speaker 3: My mind gets blown every week by what I see
Speaker 3: happens in the name of Jesus. It blows me away.
Speaker 3: And so if people are willing, you know, I'm willing
Speaker 3: to work with them, and I could do either mates
Speaker 3: or deliverance or intercession.
Speaker 1: Excellent, fantastic information. Thank you both so much. I will
Speaker 1: have all your links easily accessible for everyone in the
Speaker 1: description and we'll definitely have to do this again until
Speaker 1: next time. Everyone, have an excellent evening and we will
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