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<v Speaker 1>You see, something's going to happen. What?

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<v Speaker 2>What's going to happen? What? I welcome back to the

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<v Speaker 2>Occult Rejects. Today we have Marshall, better known as Marshall

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<v Speaker 2>the Witch of Southern Light, a practitioner of the cunning arts,

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<v Speaker 2>a writer and a voice a lot of people in

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<v Speaker 2>modern witchcraft have come to know through his books and

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<v Speaker 2>his podcast work. He is the author of Cunning Words,

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<v Speaker 2>The Red Mother, The Diary of an American and the

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<v Speaker 2>Diary of American witch His His work blends folklore, witchcraft, story, spirit,

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<v Speaker 2>and lived practice in a way that feels old rooted

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<v Speaker 2>and very real. So today we're going to get into

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<v Speaker 2>his path, his practice, his books, and how he understands

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<v Speaker 2>the crooked current of witchcraft and modern world. In the

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<v Speaker 2>modern world, And just a reminder as well, before I

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<v Speaker 2>introduce everybody, there is a website that we do have.

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<v Speaker 2>I am trying to just plug that more often so

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<v Speaker 2>people know that we have it. If you're into reading,

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<v Speaker 2>there is tons and tons and tons of stuff on there,

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<v Speaker 2>I highly suggest to check it out. Also multiple contributors,

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<v Speaker 2>and we also do have a merch spot where we

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<v Speaker 2>do have two different types of T shirts that we

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<v Speaker 2>do have available, and now there's enough out of me,

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<v Speaker 2>and let me introduce the other people joining us. We

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<v Speaker 2>got Judith to the loom. What is going on, Judith?

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<v Speaker 2>How I I'm fine?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for having me, Marshall. I can't wait to

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<v Speaker 3>hear all you have to share with us.

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<v Speaker 4>You could catch me on YouTube, on x and on

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<v Speaker 4>speaker as the loan catch me every Sunday with weekly

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<v Speaker 4>brunch and once a month I do. If you happen

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<v Speaker 4>to know anybody who's a veteran, I do buddy check

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<v Speaker 4>and thank you again.

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<v Speaker 2>Nick, of course, of course, thank you, thank you, and Sonry.

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<v Speaker 2>Please let everybody know what's up with you. I know

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<v Speaker 2>you've been on the show before, but in case they

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<v Speaker 2>don't know you are, you know, introduce yourself a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit and let everybody know where they can find all

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<v Speaker 2>your amazing work.

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<v Speaker 5>Please.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I'm Sonray. I've got a YouTube channel and

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<v Speaker 1>I host a cult university, a mystery school, which you

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<v Speaker 1>can find at www dot the Order Ofcastmagic dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>It's magical with the k. Marshall has given a guest

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<v Speaker 1>lecture over at school, as well as many other practitioners.

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<v Speaker 1>Marshall is one of the ones who I really look

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<v Speaker 1>up to the most. So I'm very excited to be

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<v Speaker 1>here and hear about your new book. I haven't read

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<v Speaker 1>it yet, I'm going to. I'm very excited about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Thank you very much. Man. Just anything else you

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to plug or anything before we go?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, one thing. You know, it's cool, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as you guys know why. I just recently finished my

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<v Speaker 1>own book and I'm doing fifty limited edition leather bound

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<v Speaker 1>hardcovers which I'm i'm binding myself, which you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be very very cool. There are twenty two of the

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<v Speaker 1>fifty left. If you would like to pre order one

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<v Speaker 1>of those, They're on my website under the order ofcastmagic

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<v Speaker 1>dot com slash books.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's something good for you, Congress. Good luck on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah. So Marshall, please let everybody know what's

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<v Speaker 2>up with you where they can find any of your stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>promote whatever you got to, let people know what's up.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you so much for having them the show. I'm

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<v Speaker 5>really excited to be here. People who don't know me,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm Marshall, which is Southern Light or Marshall WSL is

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<v Speaker 5>my pen name. People can find me on Instagram, threads

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<v Speaker 5>and TikTok at, which of Southern Light all one word.

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<v Speaker 5>I am an author and I do also have a

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<v Speaker 5>podcast like as you said, Southern Bramble with my co

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<v Speaker 5>host Austin. My three books please, I'm an independent author

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<v Speaker 5>and an artist. I do all the artwork, the cover work,

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<v Speaker 5>everything binding your own books.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amaze.

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<v Speaker 5>That's pretty amazing. My first book is a Cunning Words

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<v Speaker 5>Grimwore of Tales and Magic, the second one, which is

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<v Speaker 5>kind of a spin off or a continuation, The Red Mother,

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<v Speaker 5>and now officially The Diary of an American Witch, which

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<v Speaker 5>is thirteen Months of my life where I document experiences,

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<v Speaker 5>theories on magic, my own personal practice, spells, spell mistakes, memories,

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<v Speaker 5>and really influential experiences I've had in the past that

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<v Speaker 5>kind of shaped me to be who I am as

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<v Speaker 5>a queer Texas witch.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go, awesome man, Thank you very much. I

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<v Speaker 2>really really appreciate you coming on to talk about your

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<v Speaker 2>books too. I feel like, kind of like looking at

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<v Speaker 2>your stuff, I get like I get more of like

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<v Speaker 2>the folklore and the practical witch like you know feel too,

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<v Speaker 2>And I like that I think that's a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>different than other people out there sometimes, you know, So

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<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit I think different from my listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm excited for this. Thank you, Yeah, think thank you.

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<v Speaker 5>I definitely would ascribe the title like folkloric witch traditional witchcraft, animism.

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<v Speaker 5>It's much more and soon rhinos. I love the power

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<v Speaker 5>of a story. I love the way that magic flows

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<v Speaker 5>through a tale, and how so many stories throughout history

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<v Speaker 5>weren't just things to say around the campfire. They taught lessons,

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<v Speaker 5>they taught recipes, they taught songs, they taught epic tales.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, you read about these epic poems in the

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<v Speaker 5>Bardic tradition of teaching a story through song. I think

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<v Speaker 5>that that is kind of where the heart and crux

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<v Speaker 5>of where my own practice in witchcraft lives in that

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<v Speaker 5>power of the story. And honestly, a lot of the

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<v Speaker 5>untold stories, I think a lot of folk practitioners, whatever

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<v Speaker 5>that may have been described at the time, may have

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<v Speaker 5>not had the power or ability to have told in

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<v Speaker 5>the past. So I kind of want to reach into this.

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<v Speaker 5>I always call it the mystical Yesteryear because my stories

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<v Speaker 5>don't have a timeframe, but it is very clear that

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<v Speaker 5>they exist some point in the past and history, and

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<v Speaker 5>they seem to motivate and inspire the practitioner of magic.

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<v Speaker 5>Within the story, they have experiences that push them to

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<v Speaker 5>make deals with spirits a crossroads, or seek to know

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<v Speaker 5>the spirit of herbs or plants or sigils or conjurations.

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<v Speaker 5>And a lot of times, I think in modern publications,

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<v Speaker 5>which is it's very pervasive, where we see lots of

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<v Speaker 5>how to books, lots of one on one books, lots

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<v Speaker 5>of people writing about their craft, which I think is

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<v Speaker 5>lovely and beautiful. But sometimes I feel like we're missing

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<v Speaker 5>the whimsy in witchcraft. We're missing the mysterious. We're missing

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<v Speaker 5>that eerie fog in the forest where the witch is

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<v Speaker 5>believed to brasil. You know, a lot of times in history,

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<v Speaker 5>before we get to some of the witch trials, if

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<v Speaker 5>we go back even further, the witch was this mysterious creature.

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<v Speaker 5>It was almost not even entirely human. They were a

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<v Speaker 5>spirit inhabited human that existed somewhere in a liminal space.

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<v Speaker 5>And we see that in a lot of older historical stories.

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<v Speaker 5>We see that they aren't just a person that lives

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<v Speaker 5>amongst the community. They're an outsider. There's someone you go

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<v Speaker 5>and seek when you are at your most desperate, and

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<v Speaker 5>sometimes there's a little bit of a trickery going on,

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<v Speaker 5>and sometimes it's just straightforward I can do this for

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<v Speaker 5>you for a price. And I don't think a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of those things get discussed in modern witchcraft enough. And

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<v Speaker 5>that's kind of where a lot of my inspiration for

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<v Speaker 5>my practice comes from.

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<v Speaker 2>I like how you said that, Like I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, we could be looked at as like

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<v Speaker 2>like you said, as an outsider, but then someone's kid

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<v Speaker 2>gets sick enough all of a sudden, they're coming to

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<v Speaker 2>you and ask, can you feel ain't definitely now?

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<v Speaker 4>I would would you say you're putting to print and

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<v Speaker 4>hitting a larger scale than those that because what you're

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<v Speaker 4>talking about is what people and it doesn't matter if

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<v Speaker 4>you're here in the US or anywhere. You're in that

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<v Speaker 4>small town, and it's the whispers you're putting, the whispers

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<v Speaker 4>of go over here if you need this done, and

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<v Speaker 4>this person could do this for you, but be quiet

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<v Speaker 4>about it and stuff like that, and they tell them

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<v Speaker 4>that's the feeling you're giving me that you know the

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<v Speaker 4>stories that your grandma used to tell you when they

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<v Speaker 4>wanted you to.

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<v Speaker 5>Behave Oh, absolutely well, you know, that's very, very true.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a couple of great books that I've come across

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<v Speaker 5>that I think are really fascinating. The Silver Bullet and

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<v Speaker 5>Other American Witch Stories, I think is a fascinating one.

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<v Speaker 5>It was a collection of documents where this author went

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<v Speaker 5>and interviewed a lot of Appalachian residents who had been

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<v Speaker 5>there for generations since their families immigrated, and they brought

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<v Speaker 5>over with some their stories. And we see many of

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<v Speaker 5>these stories that have that set root in America, but

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<v Speaker 5>also come from over in the UK. They come from Europe,

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<v Speaker 5>they come from Germany, they come from from Italy. They

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<v Speaker 5>come from these places where where entertainment was stories but

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<v Speaker 5>also information with stories, and so you read some of these,

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<v Speaker 5>Like there's a whole collection of interviews where he asks

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<v Speaker 5>these these residents, these people who are living there, how

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<v Speaker 5>does one become a witch? And with each story he gets,

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<v Speaker 5>he gets different types of folklore around. You know, under

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<v Speaker 5>the full moon at midnight, you go up to this

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<v Speaker 5>mountain and then you put one hand over your head

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<v Speaker 5>and one hand under your foot, and you say, I

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<v Speaker 5>renounce my baptism, and I give everything between these two

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<v Speaker 5>hands to the devil, And like These are stories that

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<v Speaker 5>were passed down and they I feel like many of

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<v Speaker 5>them seem to have gotten somewhat lost, because when an

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<v Speaker 5>oral tradition stops being spoken, we don't get to continue

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<v Speaker 5>to pass them down. And still within some families and

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<v Speaker 5>communities we see this. But I wanted to share my

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<v Speaker 5>craft in a way that gave new stories, stories that

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<v Speaker 5>were clearly inspired by history, but also very much by

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<v Speaker 5>my own life. In my first book, Cutting Words, there's

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<v Speaker 5>a story. It's actually a story about a smallpox outbreak

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<v Speaker 5>and these these power of three spirits who come together,

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<v Speaker 5>the the the Red Fox, the Black Fox, and the

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<v Speaker 5>White Fox and what they do to heal this, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>dying queen and this tower who's lost her husband. And

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<v Speaker 5>what was very interesting is as I was writing that

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<v Speaker 5>story and I promise, see the whole story gets better,

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<v Speaker 5>but just go and read it. I think it's very fascinating.

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<v Speaker 5>What was actually going on in my life is where

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<v Speaker 5>at the town where I live was actually having a

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<v Speaker 5>huge monkey box outbreak. And this was the time, and

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<v Speaker 5>I want to say late twenty twenty two, early twenty

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<v Speaker 5>twenty three, when monkey pox was making its way through

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<v Speaker 5>the country and the gay community was the largest community

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<v Speaker 5>being affected at the time. I was watching as people

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<v Speaker 5>were having to lock themselves away for a week, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>one to two weeks at a time, with these painful

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<v Speaker 5>poks that did not exist in this country for over

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<v Speaker 5>a century and a half. We had no vaccination for it,

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<v Speaker 5>we had no recourse for it. I was watching as

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<v Speaker 5>the political sphere was using it as an attack on

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<v Speaker 5>the queer community. I was watching all these things happen,

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<v Speaker 5>and I was like, this is history repeating itself in

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<v Speaker 5>the most basic of ways. And I remember I had

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<v Speaker 5>a good friend of mine. I had four different friends

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<v Speaker 5>at that time who were all being slated from a

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<v Speaker 5>monkey pop's outbreak, and they were positive. They were living

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<v Speaker 5>with these deeply painful sores and hard fevers and really really,

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<v Speaker 5>really aggravating body aches. And it was on day ten

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<v Speaker 5>my friend reached out to me and he said, I

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<v Speaker 5>don't know what to do anymore. It's not going away.

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<v Speaker 5>Is there any way that I could ask for your help?

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<v Speaker 5>And he knew I was a witch. And it was

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<v Speaker 5>actually this charm that I had written based off of

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<v Speaker 5>a little story the Three Wise Healers, about these these

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<v Speaker 5>three spirits, one with red hair, one with black hair,

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<v Speaker 5>one with white hair, and how each one. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>it was just a little chant that I had made

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<v Speaker 5>myself before I ever wrote this book. And I said

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<v Speaker 5>this chant over a collection of verbs and put it

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<v Speaker 5>in a little satchet, And then I braided a red

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<v Speaker 5>thread braid necklace while continuously saying this charm. There once

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<v Speaker 5>were three wise healers, one with hair as red as blood,

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<v Speaker 5>one is black as a raven, one as white as flax.

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<v Speaker 5>The first one healed your wound, the second took your pain,

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<v Speaker 5>and the third one made you whole again. And I

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<v Speaker 5>would just say it over and over and over again

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<v Speaker 5>while I'm braiding this. And I went to his place.

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<v Speaker 5>I knocked on his door. I told him I was there,

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<v Speaker 5>and I put it on his mat because I couldn't

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<v Speaker 5>go in. It's a very, very contagious pox, and so

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<v Speaker 5>I left. He texted me and said thank you. Within

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<v Speaker 5>two days they started scatting up, the pain went away,

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<v Speaker 5>the fever dropped, and he told his friend about it.

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<v Speaker 5>His friend messaged me and asked for the same thing. So,

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<v Speaker 5>because I said this charm and gave this to them,

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<v Speaker 5>and I watched what happened with them healing from it,

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<v Speaker 5>I decided to write a story about it, and I

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<v Speaker 5>built this grandiose story about a smallpox outbreak that was

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<v Speaker 5>affecting this kingdom. And this story kind of unfolded. And

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<v Speaker 5>you know, because historically stories were inspired by real events

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<v Speaker 5>that were happening at the time, always know those real

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<v Speaker 5>events because now it's so many centuries later, Like, not

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<v Speaker 5>many people know that Ring around the Posey was written

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<v Speaker 5>about the Black Plague. You know, not many people know

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<v Speaker 5>that so many of these things that were written about

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<v Speaker 5>and passed down were actually written about modern things that

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<v Speaker 5>were happening at that time. And so if you read

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<v Speaker 5>my first book and second book, Hunting Words in the

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<v Speaker 5>Red Mother, you'll notice a lot of author's notes where

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<v Speaker 5>what inspired the story was something that was either happening

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<v Speaker 5>to me in my life or politically or to my community.

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<v Speaker 5>And I wanted people to know this is where that

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<v Speaker 5>story comes from, and this is what the outcome of

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<v Speaker 5>that story is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's wild.

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<v Speaker 5>It was wild.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, that's cool. That that should work too, That

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<v Speaker 2>is wild too.

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<v Speaker 1>Damn well, magic works. And I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's the main message, that is, it's not that

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<v Speaker 1>it's missing. People are shouting it from the rooftops. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to get through to people. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that I think Marshall does better than anyone

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<v Speaker 1>is get it through because story does that right. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know the way the Marshall like, sorry, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>fan boy for a second. He's not gonna give me

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<v Speaker 1>him an air, but the way like Marshall changed my

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<v Speaker 1>life because we needed the guest lecture over at the

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<v Speaker 1>Order of Chaos. He talked about desire and about story,

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<v Speaker 1>and I struggle, like, I love talking about magic, but

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<v Speaker 1>if I were gonna talk about magic for one and three minutes,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gona pull up a graph and a chart and

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be with math. And that's that's the way

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<v Speaker 1>that I do and teach magic, and that's I think

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<v Speaker 1>that that's important also, But it doesn't penetrate the subconscious.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to do that part through the mechanisms that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, here's how you do that. But Marshall's just

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<v Speaker 1>doing it and it's it's powerful and it makes you

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<v Speaker 1>feel that makes the hair on the back of your

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<v Speaker 1>next anthem.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, you know the power of a story is really

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<v Speaker 5>amazing because it evokes emotion and I think emotion is

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<v Speaker 5>the crux of magic. Like when you feel something when

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<v Speaker 5>when when the hair on the back of your neck

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00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.159
<v Speaker 5>stands up, when the goosebumps on your arms prick, that

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<v Speaker 5>is a vibration within the body that actually moves something

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<v Speaker 5>that's cellular. And I do think that sometimes when you're

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<v Speaker 5>you know, performing a spell, there are times where I

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<v Speaker 5>am working with there's a collection in my book that

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<v Speaker 5>talks about working with the days of the week as

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<v Speaker 5>magical vectors for the planets, right, And so I have

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<v Speaker 5>these chants that I might do over a talisman that

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<v Speaker 5>I'm calling upon the power of Saturn or Venus or

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<v Speaker 5>Mercury for something that I've written down on their seal

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<v Speaker 5>and fold it up and made into a little paper talisman,

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<v Speaker 5>and you know the numbers that correspond with those planets.

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<v Speaker 5>I'll chant it that many times. And I notice that,

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<v Speaker 5>you know something that may call for seven chants, or

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<v Speaker 5>this chanted seven times. The strain that goes through me

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<v Speaker 5>as I'm chanting it on that third, fourth, fifth time,

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<v Speaker 5>the the firsess of my voice, the way that I

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<v Speaker 5>call out, the cadence that changes as I can feel,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, the power and the desire and the want

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<v Speaker 5>and the need for change. It's building, it's energetic, it's

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<v Speaker 5>it's very much. It reminds me very much of that

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<v Speaker 5>old concept of the cone of power when you have,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, the the coven dancing, envisioning this power growing

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<v Speaker 5>into an apex point, pushing it out as you all

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<v Speaker 5>fall down to let it go. That happens when you chant.

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<v Speaker 5>That happens when you use repetitive, repetitive wording, you can

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<v Speaker 5>feel something start to move inside of you. That's not

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<v Speaker 5>quite the same thing. As I drew this symbol, I

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<v Speaker 5>burnt it in my cauldron, and then I went and

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<v Speaker 5>made breakfast like I love that. And sometimes that's simple

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<v Speaker 5>simplicity really works. But I want to when I approach

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<v Speaker 5>my craft, I do it very much with feeling, and

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<v Speaker 5>when I teach it, I have to find a way

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<v Speaker 5>to make others who are learning it feel it too.

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<v Speaker 2>You definitely do that with the power of the story.

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<v Speaker 1>Hard How do you learn to do that? Where did that?

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<v Speaker 1>When did it click for you that that was the

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<v Speaker 1>way to do it? Or is this is how your

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<v Speaker 1>brain works?

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<v Speaker 5>Like what my brain never turns off? I was literally

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<v Speaker 5>thinking about this earlier today. There is not a moment

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<v Speaker 5>of silence in my life. As long as I am alive,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm either singing something out loud, whether it's a real

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<v Speaker 5>song or words that are stupid because I'm singing them

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<v Speaker 5>to my dog who's deaf and can't even hear me anymore.

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<v Speaker 5>Like I'm I'm talking to myself. I'm thinking about things.

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<v Speaker 5>There is not a moment where my brain just shuts up.

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<v Speaker 5>And I do find that kind of allowing that to

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<v Speaker 5>roam can can feel like a journey. It can be

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<v Speaker 5>kind of fun. Sometimes it takes you to weird places.

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<v Speaker 5>I do know. I've had some really weird experiences between

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<v Speaker 5>where I let my take me and when I especially

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<v Speaker 5>start to mix it with my craft. I do all

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<v Speaker 5>my writing on the elliptical, like at the gym. Like

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<v Speaker 5>I get on the elliptical, I put on Lindsay Sterling

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<v Speaker 5>electric violin, and I just get in the notes app

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<v Speaker 5>and I start writing, and sometimes you know, all.

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<v Speaker 2>Of the sudden, what's that again? It to some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>flow state like that.

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<v Speaker 5>That's exactly what it is. It's almost like a transstate.

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<v Speaker 5>This the repetitive movement. I used to take spin class,

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<v Speaker 5>and I remember there was this one instructor who did

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<v Speaker 5>a really really good job about creating this flow state.

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<v Speaker 5>And I remember feeling something that was very different from

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<v Speaker 5>just exercise. It felt almost transcendent, like I was pushing

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<v Speaker 5>my body to experience something that was out of body.

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<v Speaker 5>And I started trying to kind of channel that into

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<v Speaker 5>my writing. And now I cannot write if it's not

355
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<v Speaker 5>on the treadmill, on the elliptical, if I'm not in

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<v Speaker 5>this repetitive motion, I'm if I'm at the couch on

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<v Speaker 5>my phone typing, or like on the computer, I'm just like,

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<v Speaker 5>I don't my butt hurt, Like I don't know my

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<v Speaker 5>mind's going other places. It's almost like I need my

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<v Speaker 5>body to be a little bit removed so I can focus.

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<v Speaker 2>If that makes sense exactly. I totally get what you're

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<v Speaker 2>saying that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I use binural beats for the same.

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<v Speaker 5>Reason love biniral beats.

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<v Speaker 2>People.

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<v Speaker 1>That's probably a better idea I have. I have an

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<v Speaker 1>elliptical right there that I bought and I used it

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<v Speaker 1>one time.

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<v Speaker 5>But you know, there's in my book. So I wrote

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<v Speaker 5>The Diary of American Witch alongside writing The Red Mother.

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<v Speaker 5>I was writing them at the same time. So one

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<v Speaker 5>of the things that really stood out to me is

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<v Speaker 5>as I was writing, there's a section called the Seven

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<v Speaker 5>Nights of Celestial Transvection, which is a seven day ritual

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<v Speaker 5>where you are doing and transvection just meaning a spirit

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<v Speaker 5>flight or witch's flight where you are doing a meditation

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<v Speaker 5>and transwerk to experience flying to the Temple of Saturn,

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<v Speaker 5>flying off to the Temple of Venus, flying off to

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<v Speaker 5>the Temple of Jupiter, then Mercury than Mars, then the Moon,

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<v Speaker 5>and then of course the Sun. And I was writing

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<v Speaker 5>it based off of a story where this character, the

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<v Speaker 5>Red Mother, is going on a pilgrimage and she's traveling

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<v Speaker 5>across the land and she stops at each one of

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<v Speaker 5>these temples, learning the magic of each planetary priest or priestess.

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<v Speaker 5>And I loved this story because it was categorizing her

386
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<v Speaker 5>journey and learning the craft. And I said, well, how

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<v Speaker 5>can I actually turn this into something that other practitioners

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00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.519
<v Speaker 5>can do, And so I started writing out these rituals

389
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<v Speaker 5>that involved a kind of a step by step process

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<v Speaker 5>of creating a trance like state and then flying off

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<v Speaker 5>to go to these places and then actually checking in

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<v Speaker 5>with yourself when you are there. Is what does the

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00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.119
<v Speaker 5>air feel like on your skin? What smells are you smelling?

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00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.400
<v Speaker 5>What colors are you seeing? What vegetation are you seeing?

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<v Speaker 5>What do you feel under your feet when you land?

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00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.519
<v Speaker 5>What color is the door of the temple? What sound

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00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:18.079
<v Speaker 5>does it make when you open it? What does it

398
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.759
<v Speaker 5>feel like to the touch. I want you to have

399
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:25.839
<v Speaker 5>a very intense sensory journey. So when you come back,

400
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.119
<v Speaker 5>whatever has come to you in this trans like state,

401
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.279
<v Speaker 5>you can then take it. You can write it down

402
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.400
<v Speaker 5>into your grimoire, your book of shadows, your magical record keeping.

403
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.960
<v Speaker 5>You now have a closer relationship with that planetary spirit.

404
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.440
<v Speaker 5>Should you need to call on them again, you now

405
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.839
<v Speaker 5>know what stones might be better to use to call

406
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.319
<v Speaker 5>upon their power. You might know what herbs that You're

407
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 5>not going to find it in Llewellens' Complete Book of Correspondences,

408
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.519
<v Speaker 5>because the spirit told you in this experience instead. And

409
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<v Speaker 5>I thought, okay, I'm going to write this ritual out,

410
00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:58.799
<v Speaker 5>but I can't publish it if I'm not going to

411
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.799
<v Speaker 5>do it, if I haven't done my So the diary

412
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:06.880
<v Speaker 5>actually documents me doing this myself. And I recorded myself,

413
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<v Speaker 5>like an actual audio recording of me going there, and

414
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<v Speaker 5>then kind of vocalizing my experience along the way, and

415
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<v Speaker 5>then I just stream of consciousness after the fact, wrote

416
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.559
<v Speaker 5>out what my experience was. And I had no idea

417
00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:25.480
<v Speaker 5>what was going to happen when I went to these temples.

418
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<v Speaker 5>I had no idea what I was going to see,

419
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:28.519
<v Speaker 5>what I was going to feel, And there were a

420
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.920
<v Speaker 5>lot of surprises. There were a lot of things that

421
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 5>I came out of it thinking like, Okay, I feel

422
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.960
<v Speaker 5>like I can understand that this was catered to me,

423
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.440
<v Speaker 5>and if someone else was going to do this, it's

424
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:42.160
<v Speaker 5>going to be catered to them. And I think I've

425
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.119
<v Speaker 5>spoken to a few people who have been doing these

426
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:50.839
<v Speaker 5>rituals and they're coming up with these wild experiences which

427
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.680
<v Speaker 5>are very different from mine, and I think that's very

428
00:23:53.759 --> 00:24:00.279
<v Speaker 5>much on purpose. And it's not seven days in a row,

429
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.720
<v Speaker 5>because the experience is backwards. It's actually seven weeks, one

430
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.400
<v Speaker 5>day a week. You start with the Temple of Saturn,

431
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Speaker 5>then you wait a week and you go start and

432
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:13.640
<v Speaker 5>you continue with the Temple of Venus on Friday, and

433
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:15.240
<v Speaker 5>then you wait a week and you do the Temple

434
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.400
<v Speaker 5>of Jupiter on Thursday, and then Wednesday with Mercury, and

435
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:20.480
<v Speaker 5>then Tuesday with Mars and then Monday with the Moon,

436
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.279
<v Speaker 5>and then finally Sunday with the sun. And because it

437
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.640
<v Speaker 5>takes set at minimum seven weeks, you have time in

438
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:36.400
<v Speaker 5>between these to observe your life, observe the experiences you

439
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.440
<v Speaker 5>have in between these time periods. I started noticing, especially

440
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.039
<v Speaker 5>after doing the Temple of Jupiter, some financial stresses that

441
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:49.200
<v Speaker 5>were happening, and I had some interesting things that happened

442
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 5>with money popping up and savings that I didn't know

443
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.319
<v Speaker 5>i'd had. After the Temple of Mars. I'm a hairstylist

444
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.759
<v Speaker 5>by trade. I had a client come in I'd never

445
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:03.799
<v Speaker 5>seen before, and he was the spitting image of the

446
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Speaker 5>visualization I had when I was at the Temple of Mars,

447
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.599
<v Speaker 5>and he was a metal smith and a woodworker. Like

448
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.000
<v Speaker 5>it was just this crazy experience. And part of the

449
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 5>ritual that I had written in advance was observe your life,

450
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.279
<v Speaker 5>what comes in, What experience are you having, How are

451
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.599
<v Speaker 5>you noticing that you might be able to apply the

452
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.359
<v Speaker 5>new things that you learned. When I was leading up

453
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.359
<v Speaker 5>to the Temple of the Moon, I was having a

454
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.319
<v Speaker 5>ton of intensely emotional experiences, moments where I would, you know,

455
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:40.680
<v Speaker 5>burst into tears at small at small provocateurs or extremely

456
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:42.880
<v Speaker 5>loving moments with a very very close friend. It was

457
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.680
<v Speaker 5>very emotional, and the moon and the flow of water

458
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:51.119
<v Speaker 5>and water magic and emotion and psychology that is the

459
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:57.000
<v Speaker 5>the that is the virtues of the moon and Monday

460
00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 5>and then straight. It was very very strange, and I

461
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:01.640
<v Speaker 5>got to document all of that in my diary so

462
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.759
<v Speaker 5>people could see what I experienced, take it in, and

463
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:07.759
<v Speaker 5>then have the opportunity to go and do it themselves.

464
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.440
<v Speaker 4>I like the fact that you include not only the emotion,

465
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:20.000
<v Speaker 4>but the events that happened leading up to your ritual

466
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.000
<v Speaker 4>and events that happens after, because I think when most

467
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:27.440
<v Speaker 4>people practice, they forget that the energy is going to

468
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:31.119
<v Speaker 4>be around them, They forget to see the signs of

469
00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:32.000
<v Speaker 4>its working.

470
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:35.400
<v Speaker 3>Because I guess I don't know if you will agree

471
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:35.640
<v Speaker 3>with me.

472
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.319
<v Speaker 4>People when they plan a spell, do a spell, they

473
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.599
<v Speaker 4>expect a certain outcome, and if it doesn't come in

474
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.799
<v Speaker 4>that form, they think it didn't work.

475
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the beginning, for sure, that happened to me.

476
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.279
<v Speaker 5>Of course, outcomes and spellcraft are really fascinating. Another thing

477
00:26:55.319 --> 00:27:01.079
<v Speaker 5>I was able to document in this is like I

478
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.880
<v Speaker 5>am one of those people that believes that magic in

479
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.359
<v Speaker 5>general works, but very often does it not work in

480
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.160
<v Speaker 5>the way that you think it's going to. Magic is

481
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 5>like water in a river. It is flowing, but you

482
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:17.480
<v Speaker 5>know what, it's flowing around boulders, It's flowing around tide pools.

483
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.720
<v Speaker 5>There are times that the water is more dry and low,

484
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:24.319
<v Speaker 5>in times that it is a river rapid, and sometimes

485
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.880
<v Speaker 5>you might find that there are boulders that it's going

486
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:29.720
<v Speaker 5>to take a long time to get around, but eventually

487
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 5>it's going to make its way to its final end.

488
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 5>The thing is is, depending on the go arounds it

489
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.920
<v Speaker 5>has tried to make, that end result might come a

490
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 5>little differently than you thought it would. Sometimes it's the

491
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 5>most mundane thing, the most mundane thing. Like I had

492
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.759
<v Speaker 5>a situation where a friend of mine ankle was swolen

493
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.440
<v Speaker 5>and hurting, and so I did a healing spell for him,

494
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.000
<v Speaker 5>and then it swoll up like crazy and he had

495
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:01.200
<v Speaker 5>to go to the doctor. The doctor that you have gout,

496
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.880
<v Speaker 5>Like you have gout, you need to do this, this,

497
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.519
<v Speaker 5>and this, I'm going to prescribe this, like he needed

498
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 5>a direct medical protocol to treat this gout. I don't

499
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.559
<v Speaker 5>know what would have happened if I hadn't done that.

500
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.799
<v Speaker 5>I think that healing magic can heal something just as

501
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.799
<v Speaker 5>much as it might bring you to the medical care

502
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.640
<v Speaker 5>that you need, because especially a lot of people are

503
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.079
<v Speaker 5>really really listen, people don't like doctors. Healthcare in America

504
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 5>is expensive. People will avoid it as much as they can,

505
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 5>and sometimes magic might end up meaning that it exacerbates

506
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 5>the situation to force you to get the medical care needed,

507
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.680
<v Speaker 5>and sometimes it just makes it go away, depending on

508
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.119
<v Speaker 5>how it's going to do its job. You know, you

509
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:54.039
<v Speaker 5>give a spirit an assignment, the spirit's going to do

510
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.039
<v Speaker 5>that assignment. You don't always know how it's going to

511
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:56.720
<v Speaker 5>accomplish it.

512
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.720
<v Speaker 4>That actually that it's sample actually brings up another question

513
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:07.440
<v Speaker 4>when Okay, when we do spells, we're doing it because

514
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.200
<v Speaker 4>we believe we deserve and were at a status in

515
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:14.200
<v Speaker 4>our life where we could accept what we're asking for.

516
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 4>Now those turns and those boulders, would you say it is.

517
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Bringing you up and giving you the experience to.

518
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.359
<v Speaker 4>Better accept what you are asking for, Because sometimes you

519
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.759
<v Speaker 4>may think I may want I may think I want

520
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:32.200
<v Speaker 4>a million dollars. I get that million dollars from playing

521
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:35.400
<v Speaker 4>the lotto, and I blow it the next day, didn't

522
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:40.680
<v Speaker 4>pay my debt didn't do anything. So for people who

523
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.799
<v Speaker 4>likes to do money spells and lotto spells, maybe you're

524
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 4>not getting it because you are not there, because that's

525
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.200
<v Speaker 4>what your example is showing.

526
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:54.880
<v Speaker 5>No, absolutely, I also know that that's I would definitely

527
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 5>agree with that, and I don't think it's one hundred

528
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 5>percent always that. Sometimes those boulders and those and those

529
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 5>tide pools, sometimes those are just real life blockades. Like

530
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.720
<v Speaker 5>sometimes those are like I have known people to cast

531
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 5>spells that have zero road to fruition. They will, you know,

532
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 5>they'll do a money spell for the lotto, but they

533
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.920
<v Speaker 5>won't buy a ticket, like and that's a very simple one.

534
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:21.519
<v Speaker 5>You know, they'll do a job spell, but that they

535
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 5>won't apply to any job. So a lot of times

536
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 5>magic needs to pair with the mundane, but sometimes people

537
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Speaker 5>won't because they just think magic should do all the work.

538
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.960
<v Speaker 5>We still have to do the physical work too. You know,

539
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000
<v Speaker 5>if you banish someone and then you continue to call

540
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.839
<v Speaker 5>them every day, what are you doing? Like that's that's

541
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.240
<v Speaker 5>that's not real. People will do a cord cutting and

542
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.880
<v Speaker 5>then literally immediately text them it's it's wild to me.

543
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.240
<v Speaker 5>And don't even get me started on TikTok cord cutting spells.

544
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 5>What does this mean?

545
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:54.279
<v Speaker 3>What does this mean?

546
00:30:55.319 --> 00:31:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I think people will do that frequently as a way,

547
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:02.400
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think they're doing some purpose. I think

548
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 1>that they want to convince themselves that magic does not work,

549
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.480
<v Speaker 1>because it absolves them of some responsibility in the situation.

550
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.319
<v Speaker 1>You do cutting and then you text the person immediately, Well,

551
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 1>magic doesn't work. God damn it. Why did I text

552
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:19.559
<v Speaker 1>that person because you did that? Yeah, you know, but

553
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I do think that had you not done that spell, Marshall,

554
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.160
<v Speaker 1>it's a good chance that person would have lost their foot.

555
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Guess it goes on long enough and you just don't

556
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.759
<v Speaker 1>do shit about it. It's too late.

557
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.359
<v Speaker 5>It's too late, and he's doing great now, awesome.

558
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I suppose. Uh, did anybody have any questions or anything

559
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.799
<v Speaker 2>before I go into some other stuff.

560
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking something just a second ago. But my brain, my.

561
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:53.279
<v Speaker 5>Brains, my brain's the same way. I will have what

562
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:58.200
<v Speaker 5>I think is the most excellent thought, and then immediately

563
00:31:58.240 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 5>it just goes out the other year.

564
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, no, I know what it is now, because

565
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:03.519
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned something that's happened to me and a number

566
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:06.160
<v Speaker 1>of other practitioners as well. You talked about this person

567
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.039
<v Speaker 1>who came in to get your services as a haircylist,

568
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.160
<v Speaker 1>who was the embodiment of was it Jupiter?

569
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.799
<v Speaker 5>You said this one was Mars actually yours.

570
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>So okay, how did that affect you? Because I've had

571
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.079
<v Speaker 1>that same experience and it's a real physical person and

572
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 1>there's your life that is clearly archetypal and the result

573
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.279
<v Speaker 1>of bell work. But they're standing right in front of you. Yeah,

574
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:31.960
<v Speaker 1>they're solid And to me, it's like my brain doesn't

575
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.319
<v Speaker 1>recover from that, like it's changed permanently. So how did

576
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:36.480
<v Speaker 1>that affect you? Oh?

577
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:39.000
<v Speaker 5>I still think about it today, like it is one

578
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.720
<v Speaker 5>of those things where I think and this kind of

579
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.079
<v Speaker 5>goes with what you were just talking about before too.

580
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.279
<v Speaker 5>I think that there are a lot of people like listen,

581
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.680
<v Speaker 5>we're all online. I think there are a lot of

582
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.400
<v Speaker 5>people who profess to be great and powerful, which is online,

583
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:55.759
<v Speaker 5>but in reality, they don't.

584
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Believe in they're on that.

585
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.039
<v Speaker 5>They don't even believe in magic like they I think

586
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.440
<v Speaker 5>that there are a lot of people who are who

587
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:06.680
<v Speaker 5>talk big, but then they don't actually believe in it.

588
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.079
<v Speaker 5>And to be perfect honest, I think there are a

589
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.519
<v Speaker 5>lot of spiritualities who identify with the culture that they

590
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 5>are involved in that is part of their community, but

591
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.440
<v Speaker 5>at heart they're secular, and that in itself in general

592
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.119
<v Speaker 5>is not a bad thing, because it's great to be

593
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.200
<v Speaker 5>part of your own culture and community. But at the

594
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.920
<v Speaker 5>same time, when it comes to witchcraft, when it comes

595
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 5>to magic, I don't I don't understand. I don't really

596
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:39.039
<v Speaker 5>understand the concept of having a craft that you secretly

597
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:41.400
<v Speaker 5>sometimes even a secret from yourself, don't really believe in.

598
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.160
<v Speaker 5>Like it's a shock when it actually works. And at

599
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 5>the same time, as I even say that, for this

600
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.680
<v Speaker 5>guy to show up, I was just like, oh my god,

601
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.400
<v Speaker 5>like this is what Like it was unexpected, and and

602
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.559
<v Speaker 5>you know, I kept talking to them, asking questions, and

603
00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.200
<v Speaker 5>I know that this was just enough. This was a person,

604
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.799
<v Speaker 5>but it was just weird that it was his first

605
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:04.720
<v Speaker 5>time and he wasn't one of my regular clients. He

606
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:06.599
<v Speaker 5>was actually someone else's who called out sick that day,

607
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.639
<v Speaker 5>so they moved them over to my schedule, and you know,

608
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:12.199
<v Speaker 5>we had a great conversation. But at the same time,

609
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:18.920
<v Speaker 5>it brought me back to seeing a real life, in

610
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 5>person outcome based off of a ritual. I was dead.

611
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:26.079
<v Speaker 5>I did to bring me closer to this to be

612
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:29.440
<v Speaker 5>a wash within the spirit for the week too, because

613
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:31.440
<v Speaker 5>when I was doing this, the idea was is when

614
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.920
<v Speaker 5>I come out of this, I am now a wash

615
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.760
<v Speaker 5>in the spirit of Mars. I am a wash in

616
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:37.920
<v Speaker 5>the spirit of the Moon. I'm a wash in the

617
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.480
<v Speaker 5>spirit of Jupiter. I have taken in what they have

618
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.000
<v Speaker 5>to teach me, and now I need to go out

619
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 5>into the world and either apply it, internalize it, write

620
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.559
<v Speaker 5>it down, try to figure out and understand how it

621
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.800
<v Speaker 5>applies to my own practice. And again, now I have

622
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.920
<v Speaker 5>more information when I want to call them up. We

623
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.280
<v Speaker 5>are now closer, closer to this spirit because I've done this,

624
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 5>I've reached out, I've gone to their temple and I

625
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.400
<v Speaker 5>have said I want to learn from you. What do

626
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:09.599
<v Speaker 5>you have to show me?

627
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's oh my God. So you know, I when

628
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.519
<v Speaker 1>this has happened to me, and I've heard this story

629
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 1>now from three of the third practitioners who have said

630
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.079
<v Speaker 1>something to me almost identical to this. And I've had

631
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:26.280
<v Speaker 1>this experience myself, and I to me, it was the

632
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 1>moment where and it's not that I didn't believe, well,

633
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.320
<v Speaker 1>I believe in spirits. I've always believed in spirits. But

634
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:34.519
<v Speaker 1>I I believe, and I'm not saying that you should

635
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.679
<v Speaker 1>believe or anyone else should believe unless I tell you.

636
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Don tell people what is happening here, what's objective. But

637
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:43.079
<v Speaker 1>I see that as spirit inhabiting a body and coming

638
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.880
<v Speaker 1>to talk to you. And it's just it's you know, like,

639
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe in coincidence at all. That's the kind

640
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:50.159
<v Speaker 1>of like the crux of the way that I think

641
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:54.400
<v Speaker 1>of magic, because the coincidence isn't real. But I just

642
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 1>when spirit takes form and is standing right in front

643
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 1>of you, and I think it happens way wait, way

644
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:03.159
<v Speaker 1>more often than people realize. But when you when you

645
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.719
<v Speaker 1>have the opportunity to experience it and realize it, that's

646
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:13.039
<v Speaker 1>when it's it's so incredibly mine. And I wanted to

647
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:17.480
<v Speaker 1>comment also on what you said about disbelief why people

648
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.119
<v Speaker 1>not really believe in and kind of say that that

649
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.920
<v Speaker 1>is why that exactly right there is why I have

650
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:28.159
<v Speaker 1>changed what I call my practice from chaos magic to

651
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:32.159
<v Speaker 1>chaos witchcraft. If the chas magic is said and I'm not,

652
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm not, that's it. Yeah, I think the chaos magic.

653
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to knock it I make videos defending

654
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:39.760
<v Speaker 1>chaos magic, even though I have many disagreements with Peter Carroll,

655
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:47.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, but like at its core, it is like, oh,

656
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:48.400
<v Speaker 1>it's all just a trick of the.

657
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:53.480
<v Speaker 5>Money, and well, I no, no, I I totally see that.

658
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:59.079
<v Speaker 5>And while I very much recognize the value of secular witchcraft,

659
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.719
<v Speaker 5>my personal craft is spirit based. It is very animistic.

660
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:09.280
<v Speaker 5>It's very animistic. Everything that exists has spirit. The herbs

661
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.960
<v Speaker 5>that we use are not a recipe. They are spirits

662
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.199
<v Speaker 5>who carry virtues. I am asking them or telling them,

663
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.159
<v Speaker 5>this is your assignment. I'm putting them in this bag.

664
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.480
<v Speaker 5>I don't know these three herbs with a scroll written

665
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 5>what its assignment is. And I may say a few

666
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 5>words over it, or give it three breasts of life

667
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.760
<v Speaker 5>and lock it tight. I have done something that is

668
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:35.239
<v Speaker 5>way less like a recipe and more like a verbal

669
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 5>or written contract with a single or collection of spirits.

670
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:42.599
<v Speaker 5>And there are grand spirits and there are small spirits.

671
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.440
<v Speaker 5>It's it's as simple as Austin likes to put it

672
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:47.920
<v Speaker 5>this way. I love it, and my co hosts from

673
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 5>the podcast. There's the spirit of Rose, and then there's

674
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:54.079
<v Speaker 5>the spirit of the rose. I grew in my backyard

675
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:58.159
<v Speaker 5>that I picked and I'm holding in my hand.

676
00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:04.559
<v Speaker 2>The Uh, somebody does have feedback of some buzzing noise

677
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:07.320
<v Speaker 2>coming through. I got really bad before. I don't know

678
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.599
<v Speaker 2>if like somebody's wires may be loose on their stuff.

679
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:16.920
<v Speaker 2>It comes it kind of actually yeah, it comes and goes.

680
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:19.599
<v Speaker 2>But it's like getting worse at this point. Now is

681
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 2>it me?

682
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 5>When I talk?

683
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Uh? No, you know what. I honestly, I've muted I

684
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.920
<v Speaker 2>think almost everybody and can't figure out who's coming from

685
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 2>the truth. It just keeps keeps them, keeps just showing up.

686
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.000
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, I don't know.

687
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, they call them up, all.

688
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:41.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, hold them on one second. Let me try. I

689
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.719
<v Speaker 2>think it was you, Marshall. I think it is you. Yeah,

690
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.559
<v Speaker 2>it's gone now yeah, maybe it's you, like your headset

691
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:47.960
<v Speaker 2>or something.

692
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:49.639
<v Speaker 5>Can you try Do you want me to unplug and

693
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:50.599
<v Speaker 5>just use my computer one?

694
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, yeah, try that. Maybe we'll see if that works. Yeah,

695
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>you might have to go into settings and unfortunately pick

696
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the right like no, I'm so sorry, Yes, stream it isn't.

697
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I think you might be good now? How's that perfect? Oh?

698
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Much better? Yes, awesome, thank you, thank you? Oh? So

699
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.079
<v Speaker 2>one thing I was Was there anything you guys wanted

700
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:19.079
<v Speaker 2>to keep saying. I'm sorry it kind of interrupted you.

701
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I played three all off. Now, I don't know where

702
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.079
<v Speaker 2>you might have been. I think I'm good, all right.

703
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:26.039
<v Speaker 2>One thing I did want to ask you, Marshall, uh,

704
00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:31.639
<v Speaker 2>because you know American witch? What does that mean to you?

705
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 5>You know? When I first oh, that's a big question.

706
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Sorry.

707
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:40.840
<v Speaker 5>Now, Well, the reason I titled it the Diary of

708
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.119
<v Speaker 5>an American Witch is because when I first started writing it,

709
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.920
<v Speaker 5>the title was actually the Diary of a Witch, and

710
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 5>it was very much inspired by Sybil Leek. She wrote

711
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:51.639
<v Speaker 5>The Diary of a Witch and it was published in

712
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:57.440
<v Speaker 5>nineteen sixty nine, and she was a British practitioner, generational.

713
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 5>She lived in southern England and she had a life

714
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:04.639
<v Speaker 5>story to tell. But as soon as I was reading it,

715
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:06.760
<v Speaker 5>the first thing I noticed was this isn't a diary.

716
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.880
<v Speaker 5>It's a memoir, which is cool and it's wonderful, and

717
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.480
<v Speaker 5>I enjoyed reading it and everything she had to share.

718
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.199
<v Speaker 5>But I really wanted to read a diary, like, oh

719
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.280
<v Speaker 5>my gosh, who doesn't love the idea of going to

720
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 5>an old estate sale and coming across someone's diary I

721
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:23.480
<v Speaker 5>would pay five dollars for that, and I would absolutely

722
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:24.760
<v Speaker 5>read it.

723
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 2>It's like reading an American horror story or something possible.

724
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 5>It is it is. But when I finished the book,

725
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.599
<v Speaker 5>one of the things that I really took notice of

726
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:38.079
<v Speaker 5>was I started in October of twenty twenty three and

727
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.679
<v Speaker 5>I went all the way to the end of October

728
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty four, and I didn't think about the fact

729
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.519
<v Speaker 5>that I'm writing this during an election year. I'm writing

730
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:50.320
<v Speaker 5>this during a time that war is breaking out across

731
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.519
<v Speaker 5>the world that America has involvement in. I'm writing this

732
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:55.239
<v Speaker 5>at a time that I am seeing a lot of

733
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:58.880
<v Speaker 5>political movements and shifts happening. I'm writing this in a

734
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:04.199
<v Speaker 5>time where my person effective is definitely uniquely American, and

735
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:06.519
<v Speaker 5>it was very different from Sybil Wikus as a British witch.

736
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.280
<v Speaker 5>And I figured, you know, at this point in time,

737
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:12.440
<v Speaker 5>based off of everything that I have documented over these

738
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:18.039
<v Speaker 5>thirteen months, the viewpoint and experience of me is an

739
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.199
<v Speaker 5>American witch, and so it made a lot of sense,

740
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.719
<v Speaker 5>and it seemed to be important to make sure that

741
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:28.559
<v Speaker 5>that perspective was clear when someone buys this book. So

742
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.760
<v Speaker 5>many of the books that we have that historically have

743
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.159
<v Speaker 5>been these big motivators in modern witchcraft have not come

744
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.360
<v Speaker 5>from here. They've come, you know, from the UK especially,

745
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.079
<v Speaker 5>So that seemed to be really important to me because

746
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.039
<v Speaker 5>as a traditional witch, and I'm very inspired by Jemma

747
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.599
<v Speaker 5>Garry's works out of Cornwall. She wrote Traditional Witch Witchcraft,

748
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.840
<v Speaker 5>A Book of Cornish Ways, the Devil's Dozen and the

749
00:41:54.880 --> 00:42:00.079
<v Speaker 5>Black Toad, all very inspiring, but again their perspective of

750
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:05.119
<v Speaker 5>a West Country English witch. And because traditional witchcraft is

751
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:07.800
<v Speaker 5>very bioregional, meaning it is the spirit of the land

752
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 5>on which I reside, It is the herbs I grow

753
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:14.840
<v Speaker 5>in my garden, it is the genius loci of my locality,

754
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:22.599
<v Speaker 5>it made more sense that my practice is recognizably American,

755
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.199
<v Speaker 5>and not just American, but Texan, and not just Texan,

756
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.639
<v Speaker 5>but my local neighborhood, like these are the spirits that

757
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm working with. I live in the gaborhood of my city.

758
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.440
<v Speaker 5>It's literally like a small pocketed community of a lot

759
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 5>of gay people, gay bars, shops, restaurants.

760
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:38.239
<v Speaker 2>You know.

761
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 5>I live in a building that was built in nineteen

762
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:43.639
<v Speaker 5>eighty five, and when I first moved in, there was

763
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.760
<v Speaker 5>a lovely older man who, you know, I met who

764
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:48.599
<v Speaker 5>was living here, and he invited us over, me and

765
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.519
<v Speaker 5>my friends, and we walked in and he was showing

766
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.480
<v Speaker 5>his apartment, his condo, and this wall of pictures, and

767
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:58.079
<v Speaker 5>we're looking at all of these pictures that dated back decades,

768
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 5>and he was like, that's so and so. And he

769
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:03.599
<v Speaker 5>lived over in unit three two one, and that's so

770
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:06.239
<v Speaker 5>and so. And he lived over in unit one five six,

771
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:08.360
<v Speaker 5>and that's so and so. And he lived just a

772
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:11.159
<v Speaker 5>block down the way. And you know, Stephen up here.

773
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.880
<v Speaker 5>He died in nineteen eighty five, and that's and that's Daniel,

774
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.840
<v Speaker 5>and he died in nineteen eighty nine, and that's so

775
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:18.880
<v Speaker 5>and so. And he died in nineteen ninety one. And

776
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.719
<v Speaker 5>I started realizing I was looking at a cemetery of

777
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:26.880
<v Speaker 5>photographs of all of his friends who all died right here.

778
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:28.880
<v Speaker 5>You know, this was during the AIDS epidemic of the

779
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:32.039
<v Speaker 5>eighties and nineties, and the gighborhood has existed longer than

780
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:34.559
<v Speaker 5>that here in the city I live in. And I

781
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.559
<v Speaker 5>was watching realizing by the end of him sharing this

782
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.639
<v Speaker 5>with me that he was the only one left. He

783
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:43.960
<v Speaker 5>was the only one who survived from all of his

784
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:46.679
<v Speaker 5>entire group of friends and so I really took a

785
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 5>step back, and I thought about the place in which

786
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.599
<v Speaker 5>I live right now, the building I live in, the

787
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:56.679
<v Speaker 5>literal walls around me that housed these people who lived

788
00:43:56.760 --> 00:44:01.840
<v Speaker 5>this beautiful, queer, joyous life, who then lives were cut short.

789
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.519
<v Speaker 5>They didn't get to tell their stories. They didn't get

790
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.960
<v Speaker 5>to live all the way to the end. They didn't

791
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 5>get to be the point where my neighbor was, where

792
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 5>he can now share their stories with the younger generation.

793
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 5>And I think a lot about that when it comes

794
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.719
<v Speaker 5>to the locality of my craft, the spirits, I'm calling

795
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 5>upon the queer dead who existed here, who still want

796
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.880
<v Speaker 5>to dance, who still want to love, They still want

797
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.599
<v Speaker 5>to party, they still want to be a part of life,

798
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.880
<v Speaker 5>and I want them to be I want them to

799
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.800
<v Speaker 5>participate in that with me. I want to show them reverence,

800
00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:35.840
<v Speaker 5>and they're the spirits of my land.

801
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.079
<v Speaker 2>That's great. I really like how you said, like you

802
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.639
<v Speaker 2>do have like probably except for like what maybe the

803
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:46.400
<v Speaker 2>last like forty fifty is, you really don't have too

804
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:48.519
<v Speaker 2>many people I think over the United States that have

805
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:51.880
<v Speaker 2>really made a name for themselves as like an American watch.

806
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Like you're saying something fairly new, at least from my experience,

807
00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:00.719
<v Speaker 2>especially being a ceremonial magician, a lot of stuff. You know,

808
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:02.519
<v Speaker 2>you think he's going back to people who in Europe

809
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:05.840
<v Speaker 2>tell you the truth. You know, so I hear what you're

810
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:09.559
<v Speaker 2>saying with that, that's pretty cool. Go ahead, you did? Sorry? Uh?

811
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:12.920
<v Speaker 4>You brought up the UK and Fredo Jester and the

812
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.440
<v Speaker 4>Chat had a question on your thoughts about the Witch's Bible.

813
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:18.840
<v Speaker 3>I haven't thought about that book in years.

814
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 5>Oh, wow, you know I don't. I mean, I have

815
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.360
<v Speaker 5>no necessarily positive or negative things to say about it.

816
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:30.199
<v Speaker 5>I remember skimming through it a long time ago. I

817
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:32.880
<v Speaker 5>was probably wait, actually too young to be reading it. Actually,

818
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:34.639
<v Speaker 5>a few of the books I started with I was

819
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.039
<v Speaker 5>probably a little too young to be reading. I mean,

820
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.960
<v Speaker 5>I was twelve when I discovered a witchcraft was real.

821
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.679
<v Speaker 5>I was twelve years old reading Raymond Bucklan's Complete Book

822
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:47.199
<v Speaker 5>of Witchcraft. Wow, I mean, you know there were images

823
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:53.039
<v Speaker 5>drawn of you know, skyclad initiators that were bound and

824
00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:57.760
<v Speaker 5>tied behind their behind their hands behind their back, and

825
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.159
<v Speaker 5>you know, it was very interesting to explain to my

826
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:04.159
<v Speaker 5>mother that no, no, it's a religious ceremony. No, no

827
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.840
<v Speaker 5>it's not, it's not inappropriate. And when I got a

828
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.480
<v Speaker 5>chance to kind of flip through and see the Witch's Bible,

829
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:16.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, it was very inspired by the time. It

830
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:21.440
<v Speaker 5>was the author's name, it was it Janet something, and

831
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.360
<v Speaker 5>it was her and her husband. I believe that wrote it.

832
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.480
<v Speaker 5>I could be mistaken on that, so don't quote me,

833
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:30.960
<v Speaker 5>but I remember it was. It was a very traditional

834
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 5>and ceremonialized, ceremonialized practice of wicca at the time, and

835
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.920
<v Speaker 5>Wicca and witchcraft at the time are also very synonymous,

836
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.280
<v Speaker 5>especially in America. That was really the only thing that

837
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.800
<v Speaker 5>was traveling over here. When it comes to modern witchcraft

838
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.039
<v Speaker 5>and the religious aspect of it, I think it's probably

839
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:53.800
<v Speaker 5>a great read for people wanting to learn about their

840
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:58.320
<v Speaker 5>tradition of wicca and paganism. But I do not think

841
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.519
<v Speaker 5>that that book itself is a catch all generalization of

842
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:02.440
<v Speaker 5>what witchcraft is.

843
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't think such a thing exists. No, couldn't exist,

844
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:10.960
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't exist.

845
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I agree. M hm. Hey, I have anything that you

846
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:20.599
<v Speaker 2>wanted to ask or bring up before I start asking

847
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:21.159
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff.

848
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, my kids asking me for candy.

849
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, that's quite all right, that's all right. What's

850
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.000
<v Speaker 2>one thing that you hope that people will get out

851
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:35.039
<v Speaker 2>of American Witch, you know.

852
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.400
<v Speaker 5>I hope that they'll find that I have had experiences

853
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.559
<v Speaker 5>as a practitioner that I think a lot of us have,

854
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.880
<v Speaker 5>but we haven't had the freedom and ability to talk

855
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.039
<v Speaker 5>about them. Sometimes they're weird, like some some of these

856
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.639
<v Speaker 5>experiences are weird, and we kind of get nervous about

857
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:53.719
<v Speaker 5>sharing them and the mist I think so many new

858
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.239
<v Speaker 5>practitioners are afraid of things like backfires. They're afraid of

859
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:04.800
<v Speaker 5>things like uh. I do think that especially, you know,

860
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:08.760
<v Speaker 5>modern America and horror movies have taught us to be

861
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:14.280
<v Speaker 5>afraid of spirits, of conjuring, of experimenting with magic. I

862
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:17.599
<v Speaker 5>do a lot of magical experimentation in my book, and

863
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:21.280
<v Speaker 5>I want people to see what that lived experience was like,

864
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.119
<v Speaker 5>what the outcomes were like, what some of my mistakes

865
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.719
<v Speaker 5>were that I would change differently. I think when we

866
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:33.639
<v Speaker 5>when we read each other's experiences, not just recipes, we

867
00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:36.159
<v Speaker 5>can start to learn from each other's mistakes as well

868
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:39.280
<v Speaker 5>as successes. I hope people read it and they go,

869
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:42.760
<v Speaker 5>I've had a very similar experience and I didn't know

870
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:45.480
<v Speaker 5>if it was real or if anyone else would understand that.

871
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.559
<v Speaker 5>But Marshall had it too, So there's a validation there.

872
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:58.039
<v Speaker 5>There's honestly, there's there. I'm gonna be really frank here.

873
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.119
<v Speaker 5>There's also a somewhat of a voyeurist complex that I

874
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:03.639
<v Speaker 5>think many of us are not really ready to admit

875
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:07.679
<v Speaker 5>that we have. We want to watch what happens behind

876
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:11.760
<v Speaker 5>closed doors when people perform magic. We want to see

877
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.679
<v Speaker 5>what happens. We want to experience that. We want to

878
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:16.639
<v Speaker 5>learn from each other. And it's very easy to read

879
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:18.760
<v Speaker 5>a how to book and a recipe and try to

880
00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:22.199
<v Speaker 5>do that recipe, but it's very different when you watch

881
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:25.679
<v Speaker 5>someone or read about someone's experience when they do it.

882
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:29.599
<v Speaker 5>I think that there's a difference between a lived experience

883
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:30.840
<v Speaker 5>and a theory.

884
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, totally.

885
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:41.639
<v Speaker 1>I try to facilitate that through the Order of Chaost

886
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:45.000
<v Speaker 1>community that everyone can share and talk about their experiences.

887
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:47.639
<v Speaker 1>But again, like the way that I teach magic is

888
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.239
<v Speaker 1>very much like it's a textbook. Here's formulas and things

889
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 1>that you can do to get these experiences for yourself.

890
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.719
<v Speaker 1>But I think one of the problems with being a

891
00:49:57.760 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>solo so I think there's huge advantages to being a

892
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.119
<v Speaker 1>little practitioner. But but one of the big disadvantages is

893
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:07.159
<v Speaker 1>people who are strictly solo practitioners, unless they just have

894
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:10.000
<v Speaker 1>incredible faith, will always end up saying, am I just crazy?

895
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:12.800
<v Speaker 1>Is am I just? Am I just crazy? Did that

896
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.000
<v Speaker 1>just happen? Or am I crazy? Right? And then and

897
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:18.519
<v Speaker 1>then doubt starts to creep in. And without that validation

898
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:22.519
<v Speaker 1>from other people having similar experiences or just you know,

899
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:24.480
<v Speaker 1>knowing that other people are going through the same thing,

900
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:26.199
<v Speaker 1>you start to doubt yourself.

901
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:31.440
<v Speaker 4>To piggyback on that one, do you think you're not

902
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:35.840
<v Speaker 4>doing something right if you don't ask yourself if you're crazy?

903
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.280
<v Speaker 2>That's true. I mean, that's a good point, that's a

904
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:41.760
<v Speaker 2>good question.

905
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:46.719
<v Speaker 1>There's a new level of arrogance.

906
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. One thing. I did also want to

907
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:56.800
<v Speaker 2>get into a little bit if if you're wanted to

908
00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:02.679
<v Speaker 2>get into it the podcast as well, my podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

909
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:04.199
<v Speaker 2>How did that? How did that come to be?

910
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 5>You know, I'm at Austin on Instagram Back in twenty twenty.

911
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:14.000
<v Speaker 5>I thought what he was sharing was beautiful work. I

912
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:19.119
<v Speaker 5>thought it was so fascinating. It was very interesting, you know,

913
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:25.679
<v Speaker 5>in a world of content of you know, beautiful soft aesthetics.

914
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:29.480
<v Speaker 5>He was kind of dirty he was kind of hard,

915
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:32.679
<v Speaker 5>he was getting he was doing some some things that

916
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:36.559
<v Speaker 5>I thought were get your hands in the dirt witchcraft.

917
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:40.039
<v Speaker 5>And I started, you know, just sharing these videos, these

918
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:43.400
<v Speaker 5>little posts on my story. We became good friends. We

919
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:48.039
<v Speaker 5>started doing Instagram lives together, chatting about magic and witchcraft.

920
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:51.760
<v Speaker 5>And you know, we're both to Southern queer witches. He

921
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:54.559
<v Speaker 5>lives in Florida, I live in Texas, and we wanted

922
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 5>to get together and make a podcast to share our perspectives,

923
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:04.840
<v Speaker 5>to talk about magical topics, to interview authors. The one

924
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:07.599
<v Speaker 5>of the things that I think we both had a

925
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:11.480
<v Speaker 5>heart agree in Swan was the concept of the queerness

926
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:14.159
<v Speaker 5>of witchcraft to the otherness of it. And when I

927
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:18.480
<v Speaker 5>say queer, I don't mean specifically lgbt Q, I A plus.

928
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:22.360
<v Speaker 5>I don't mean you know, alphabet mafia only. I mean

929
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:28.079
<v Speaker 5>the otherness, the edging that the people that are marginalized

930
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:30.920
<v Speaker 5>and pushed to, the edges that lead them to a

931
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:33.800
<v Speaker 5>space of magic, that lead them to a space of

932
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:38.800
<v Speaker 5>finding their empowerment, finding their their place of I am

933
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:41.639
<v Speaker 5>now so desperate to make this thing happen, to change

934
00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:44.920
<v Speaker 5>this thing. I don't have any other recourse. Where's my

935
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:48.559
<v Speaker 5>commune like when I was young. That was my experience.

936
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:52.119
<v Speaker 5>That's what led me to witchcraft. Being much more of

937
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.760
<v Speaker 5>an effeminate man or a boy when I was young

938
00:52:55.039 --> 00:53:00.079
<v Speaker 5>was a very very ostracizing experience and being led to

939
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.599
<v Speaker 5>to the church and not led to being brought to

940
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:06.440
<v Speaker 5>the church at a at a young age and being

941
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:10.320
<v Speaker 5>taught that everything I was feeling and experiencing inside was wrong.

942
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:14.920
<v Speaker 5>It led me to a place of when I found Witchcraft,

943
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.760
<v Speaker 5>I found the beauty in my femininity. I found the

944
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.519
<v Speaker 5>beauty in my differentness. And so when it comes to witchcraft.

945
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:28.800
<v Speaker 5>In our podcast, we really found that liminal space of queerness,

946
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:32.559
<v Speaker 5>if you will, that space of we are living somewhat

947
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:36.079
<v Speaker 5>in the margins of spirituality here and being in that

948
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:41.000
<v Speaker 5>liminal space, we found another sense of community within other

949
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:45.280
<v Speaker 5>We found other authors, other creators who were also experiencing that.

950
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:47.400
<v Speaker 5>We would invite them on the show and we would

951
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 5>talk and sometimes they'd be authors or other creators, or

952
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.960
<v Speaker 5>they would be other podcast hosts. We did a lot

953
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 5>of great crossover talks which were really fascinating, especially with

954
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:01.480
<v Speaker 5>different practices. Learning from each other, I think is one

955
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 5>of the greatest things that we can do, especially in

956
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:09.639
<v Speaker 5>a spirituality that unfortunately has historically always been about secretiveness,

957
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:15.599
<v Speaker 5>and not just secretiveness, but elite exclusiveness. The Internet changed

958
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.079
<v Speaker 5>that for so many of us. And we're going on

959
00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:21.880
<v Speaker 5>six years now with the podcast, and we've had We've

960
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.760
<v Speaker 5>had an ability to talk to people I never thought

961
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:29.800
<v Speaker 5>i'd have the ability to ask direct questions. We had

962
00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:32.960
<v Speaker 5>Jim McGary on the podcast, and you know, this is

963
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:35.960
<v Speaker 5>a woman who I had like, you know, download and

964
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:38.800
<v Speaker 5>idolizing because she taught me so much through her work.

965
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 5>And then I met people who I never would have

966
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:46.199
<v Speaker 5>known just because someone suggested, Hey, you should look check

967
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 5>them out. They be great on the show.

968
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:53.679
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. Nice, Yeah, for sure. Even with the experience

969
00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:55.199
<v Speaker 2>I've had on this show in like the last year

970
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:56.719
<v Speaker 2>or two, some of the people I've had on, it's

971
00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:58.559
<v Speaker 2>just like I cannot believe I'm out in a conversation

972
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:02.440
<v Speaker 2>with these people. Like when I got into the got

973
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:04.360
<v Speaker 2>into what I was doing, It's like I was reading

974
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:07.199
<v Speaker 2>their books, like listening to them on other shows, and

975
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, now you're fucking talking to me. What it was?

976
00:55:11.800 --> 00:55:14.320
<v Speaker 5>It was really amazing on the podcast. We were able

977
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:19.719
<v Speaker 5>to have the guest uh Christine Cummingham Ashworth. She is

978
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:24.199
<v Speaker 5>Scott Cunningham's sister, and she wrote, Yeah, she wrote his biography,

979
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:28.320
<v Speaker 5>uh post Morten biography, and I was reading it to

980
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.159
<v Speaker 5>prepare to have her come on the show, and I

981
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:34.159
<v Speaker 5>noticed so many similarities between me and my own sister,

982
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:37.639
<v Speaker 5>the same three year age gap, you know, me being

983
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:41.199
<v Speaker 5>you know, her gay older brother, uh me being into

984
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:44.039
<v Speaker 5>WICCA and secretly doing these things, and her kind of

985
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:47.159
<v Speaker 5>figuring out about it. And then now she's also a

986
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:51.320
<v Speaker 5>practicing a practicing which as well. It's it's very fascinating

987
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.000
<v Speaker 5>getting to speak to having the opportunity to speak to

988
00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:58.159
<v Speaker 5>her and ask her about her life with this man

989
00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:01.760
<v Speaker 5>who was so in flat wind shoal throughout the eighties

990
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:05.320
<v Speaker 5>and nineties and witchcraft, Yeah, who I very much think

991
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:08.239
<v Speaker 5>of as one of our you know, our our witch ancestors.

992
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:11.519
<v Speaker 5>When we talk about the mighty Dead, Scott Cunningham is

993
00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:12.960
<v Speaker 5>absolutely included in that.

994
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:18.800
<v Speaker 2>He was hugely influential for me, and like I, whenever

995
00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:21.760
<v Speaker 2>it came to herbs or crystals, I referred to his stuff.

996
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:26.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, whenever I did ritual work, always referred to

997
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:29.599
<v Speaker 2>his like associations. I guess a lot of his spell

998
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:33.199
<v Speaker 2>work so yeah, I used a lot of his ship.

999
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1000
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Uh so, Judith, did you have anything that you wanted

1001
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:39.039
<v Speaker 2>to ask?

1002
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Uh?

1003
00:56:41.079 --> 00:56:44.320
<v Speaker 4>Not asked, but I yes, it did. Actually because in

1004
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:52.800
<v Speaker 4>your with your writings, you're you're including the mishaps as well,

1005
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:56.239
<v Speaker 4>but with and you mentioned the TikTok witches, which I

1006
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.280
<v Speaker 4>know nothing about it. I don't have TikTok, don't know who.

1007
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:00.320
<v Speaker 4>I just keep hearing about it. I can't believe this thing.

1008
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:06.920
<v Speaker 4>But two different questions. One do you believe you are

1009
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 4>instilling faith and ethical magic with your writings? And how

1010
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:18.039
<v Speaker 4>do you feel about the most recent which is that

1011
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:19.400
<v Speaker 4>right about magic?

1012
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:20.760
<v Speaker 3>Do you think they're missing that?

1013
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:25.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't necessarily think they're missing it. I think that's

1014
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:36.760
<v Speaker 5>man Another really big question. I do think teaching ethics

1015
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:43.440
<v Speaker 5>in witchcraft is a very very wiggly place, if I

1016
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:45.119
<v Speaker 5>can put it any other way, it's a very wiggly

1017
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:50.000
<v Speaker 5>place because witchcraft in itself has no inherent ethics. You

1018
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:52.960
<v Speaker 5>as the practitioner, have the ethics, and you apply it

1019
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:56.599
<v Speaker 5>to your craft. You know, witchcraft itself is a tool

1020
00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:00.920
<v Speaker 5>like anything in nature. A hurricane is not It's not

1021
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:04.880
<v Speaker 5>ethical or unethical. It is a force of nature and

1022
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.760
<v Speaker 5>it creates and it destroys. Witchcraft is no different. You know,

1023
00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:13.000
<v Speaker 5>a hammer is a tool. You can use it to

1024
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:16.199
<v Speaker 5>build something or you could use it to smash something.

1025
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:19.119
<v Speaker 5>I think that is a big conversation when it comes

1026
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.079
<v Speaker 5>to witchcraft and magic, and I do think that when

1027
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.199
<v Speaker 5>it comes to spirituality in general, there are so many

1028
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:31.159
<v Speaker 5>dogmas out there that are teaching ethics. Witchcraft isn't a dogma,

1029
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:34.599
<v Speaker 5>but your spirituality might be. And that's going to change

1030
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:36.519
<v Speaker 5>from person to person. So when it comes to like

1031
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.559
<v Speaker 5>witch talk and social media and whatnot, you're going to

1032
00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:42.920
<v Speaker 5>see that wildly differ from person to person. You know,

1033
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:45.800
<v Speaker 5>you got those edge lords who are all about the curses,

1034
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.119
<v Speaker 5>and then you've got the healers who are all about

1035
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:51.800
<v Speaker 5>love and light and that's it, and then everything in between.

1036
00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I actually feel like there's maybe not enough in between.

1037
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:03.199
<v Speaker 1>I see the extremes more often than anything in the middle.

1038
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I see the you should never ever, ever, ever, ever

1039
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:09.400
<v Speaker 1>ever ever people, and that this is all I do people,

1040
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:13.880
<v Speaker 1>And too, you know, I you know, as I always

1041
00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:15.480
<v Speaker 1>say this, this is like you said, this is hard

1042
00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:17.039
<v Speaker 1>to talk about. I just did a class on this

1043
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:19.239
<v Speaker 1>the other night. I did a class called the ethics

1044
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:22.719
<v Speaker 1>of baneful magic, and it was a very difficult class

1045
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:24.880
<v Speaker 1>to get through because I'm not here to tell anyone

1046
00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:27.559
<v Speaker 1>what their morals should be. I'm not here to tell

1047
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:31.119
<v Speaker 1>anyone what their ethics should be. I will say though,

1048
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:33.000
<v Speaker 1>that for the people who I see who are just

1049
00:59:33.079 --> 00:59:37.800
<v Speaker 1>deeply involved in UH in baneful work, their own lives

1050
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:40.480
<v Speaker 1>tend to fall apart. I see it, and I see

1051
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:42.000
<v Speaker 1>it all the time. And I'm not even saying that

1052
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.400
<v Speaker 1>that's directly the cause. But I will say, if you're

1053
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:46.679
<v Speaker 1>walking around with hate in your heart, it's poisoning you.

1054
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Like that is a puzzle fact, no matter. I mean,

1055
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there's any way around that I've done.

1056
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:56.320
<v Speaker 1>I've hexed two people in my entire life time. One

1057
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:58.719
<v Speaker 1>tried to murder someone who's very very important to me,

1058
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:00.480
<v Speaker 1>and the other words Jeffrey Epson, and then the third

1059
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:05.639
<v Speaker 1>will probably be Donald Trump. That's it to me. That's

1060
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:07.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to do this unless I feel like

1061
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:09.400
<v Speaker 1>this there's an absolute need for this.

1062
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:14.079
<v Speaker 2>Mhmm. You know, I think that's a really good point

1063
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:17.159
<v Speaker 2>that we were talking about too with UH. You know,

1064
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.519
<v Speaker 2>it really does kind of fall in the practitioner and

1065
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like you know, when I first started this show, it

1066
01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:25.719
<v Speaker 2>was a little bit more in the conspiracy community, and

1067
01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I was, I guess, trying to like educate them on

1068
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:32.159
<v Speaker 2>like it's not all dicks and demons, you know. They're

1069
01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:36.639
<v Speaker 2>like like, you know, like, uh, it really like just

1070
01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:40.760
<v Speaker 2>because you associate Kabbalah with some fucked up, twisted, demonic

1071
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.480
<v Speaker 2>shit and perverted stuff doesn't mean because I'm into the

1072
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 2>kabbala means that that's what I do with my shit.

1073
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:46.679
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1074
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:50.119
<v Speaker 2>You could be like looking at one form of magic

1075
01:00:50.199 --> 01:00:53.559
<v Speaker 2>or multiple forms of magic and just like I don't know,

1076
01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:56.000
<v Speaker 2>for whatever reason, just demonizing the whole thing. And it's

1077
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.400
<v Speaker 2>like they know that really depends on the practitioner actually,

1078
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:03.559
<v Speaker 2>because you can twist and use anything, and is the

1079
01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:05.440
<v Speaker 2>direction depending on how you want to look at it,

1080
01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, so I think that's a very

1081
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:11.320
<v Speaker 2>good point to get at it. That it's just you know,

1082
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:15.920
<v Speaker 2>really sometimes I think depending you know, what you're doing,

1083
01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:18.159
<v Speaker 2>it really is on the mindset of the practitioner. You

1084
01:01:18.199 --> 01:01:22.280
<v Speaker 2>could do some great things or some horrible shit, you know,

1085
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's where I think it gets hard. Like for

1086
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:28.400
<v Speaker 2>me sometimes I really just don't even put my own

1087
01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:32.440
<v Speaker 2>opinion in there, I just present the topic or present

1088
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:34.840
<v Speaker 2>people who cover that stuff and just ask them questions

1089
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:36.320
<v Speaker 2>because I'm not here to tell you what to do.

1090
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:42.880
<v Speaker 2>This is this is an option. Yeah, that's it, you know,

1091
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:45.360
<v Speaker 2>but uh yeah, thank you. Sorry I'm going on about it.

1092
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:46.800
<v Speaker 2>But I just think that is a really good point

1093
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.760
<v Speaker 2>to make. You know, it really does depend on who

1094
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.239
<v Speaker 2>who's doing the magic where they are on their head.

1095
01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:53.760
<v Speaker 3>That's true.

1096
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:57.800
<v Speaker 4>But the thing about Marshall your unique what you do

1097
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:02.599
<v Speaker 4>uniquely is you say I this and this happened, whether

1098
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:07.239
<v Speaker 4>it's good or bad. We always get the good, do

1099
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:10.239
<v Speaker 4>this and this will happen, but we never we never

1100
01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:14.039
<v Speaker 4>know the loophole of that disaster that might happen, that

1101
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.320
<v Speaker 4>might ruin the life or anything like that. And you

1102
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:20.760
<v Speaker 4>present that. Do you think that part is missing? I

1103
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:23.239
<v Speaker 4>find that that part is missing when I'm when I'm

1104
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:25.519
<v Speaker 4>reading different books on work.

1105
01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:30.079
<v Speaker 5>Oh absolutely. And I think that's actually that No, that

1106
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:32.119
<v Speaker 5>that's a very good point because I do feel like

1107
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:36.480
<v Speaker 5>because so many books are about theory and about practice,

1108
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:39.880
<v Speaker 5>but not about the lived experience of that practice. I

1109
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:41.559
<v Speaker 5>remember I read a book a while back, by a

1110
01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:44.920
<v Speaker 5>long Mile of a cautt Low magic, and it was

1111
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:48.719
<v Speaker 5>someone suggested it to me, and I had not read

1112
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:53.280
<v Speaker 5>any of his other work, but it was it was

1113
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:57.760
<v Speaker 5>fascinating because it was not a collection of rituals. It

1114
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.000
<v Speaker 5>was a I did this, I used this, this is

1115
01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:04.480
<v Speaker 5>what happened, and I thought it was fantastic. I thought, like,

1116
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:09.199
<v Speaker 5>I want to see more books like this. Many of

1117
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:11.280
<v Speaker 5>the spells that I talk about in my diary are

1118
01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:15.239
<v Speaker 5>ones that I sometimes cast when I was thirteen years old,

1119
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:18.519
<v Speaker 5>sixteen years old, nineteen years old, ones that I cast

1120
01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:21.360
<v Speaker 5>when I was thirty years old, thirty five, thirty seven.

1121
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:28.920
<v Speaker 5>You will notice, you will definitely notice that the motivation

1122
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:32.639
<v Speaker 5>behind it and maturity behind it are very different at

1123
01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:37.480
<v Speaker 5>different ages. The decisions that I made to try to

1124
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:40.880
<v Speaker 5>curse this bully from school, and then the outcome that happened,

1125
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:43.599
<v Speaker 5>and the way I might have actually been wrong about

1126
01:03:43.639 --> 01:03:45.719
<v Speaker 5>who I thought was doing it. That was actually one

1127
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:48.440
<v Speaker 5>of the big ones. There was a situation where I

1128
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:52.000
<v Speaker 5>cast a hex on someone who was treating me a

1129
01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:54.400
<v Speaker 5>specific way or who I believed was, and it was

1130
01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:59.239
<v Speaker 5>not them. And I had my own experience where I

1131
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.800
<v Speaker 5>got some call it blowback, but I would almost say

1132
01:04:02.599 --> 01:04:06.519
<v Speaker 5>I cast something that was not justified, and I was

1133
01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:10.079
<v Speaker 5>made very aware, a very aware that it was not justified,

1134
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:14.239
<v Speaker 5>because I do believe and justified magic. I do believe

1135
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:19.119
<v Speaker 5>that there is a larger kind. I mean it's a

1136
01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:23.079
<v Speaker 5>very again, a wiggly place of balance. But when it

1137
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:25.960
<v Speaker 5>comes to not expecting those bad outcomes, this is actually

1138
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:28.920
<v Speaker 5>a really good part where to think about divination before

1139
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:33.679
<v Speaker 5>doing magic, asking the cards, asking the bones, doing divination

1140
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:37.599
<v Speaker 5>before you cast, to see first? Is this even a

1141
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:40.880
<v Speaker 5>good idea? Is this the best way to go about it?

1142
01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:43.119
<v Speaker 5>Is this the best spell? Is this the best spirit

1143
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.159
<v Speaker 5>to call? I do think that divination gets forgotten. It

1144
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:50.480
<v Speaker 5>feels very separated from spellcraft a lot of times, and

1145
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:53.199
<v Speaker 5>I think they can be much more interwoven with each other.

1146
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:56.440
<v Speaker 5>I have binary divination bones. It's just asking yes or

1147
01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:58.400
<v Speaker 5>no questions. Should I do this?

1148
01:04:58.639 --> 01:04:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes or no?

1149
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:05.800
<v Speaker 5>Sometimes they're uh, what's it called up? Inconclusive? And if

1150
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:07.719
<v Speaker 5>that's the case, I need to get more specific with

1151
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:10.960
<v Speaker 5>my questions or more general, depending on what I'm asking.

1152
01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:16.559
<v Speaker 2>Not to kind of go backwards a little bit. But

1153
01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:18.719
<v Speaker 2>you had mentioned something about you know, low magic and

1154
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:22.559
<v Speaker 2>lon Milo and you know, like you even inserting your

1155
01:05:22.559 --> 01:05:25.880
<v Speaker 2>own experiences into your stuff, and then like even that

1156
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:28.280
<v Speaker 2>we had Thump of forge On and his Chaos Apple,

1157
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I kind of feel was like a little bit like

1158
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:33.800
<v Speaker 2>that too from what I had read. And I really

1159
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:37.880
<v Speaker 2>do feel like that those books when people kind of

1160
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:39.800
<v Speaker 2>do that and it's you know, not I haven't read

1161
01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:43.000
<v Speaker 2>too many, like I'm saying, like Thump before Milo and

1162
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:49.199
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing. They really for me, they're easy reads.

1163
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:51.679
<v Speaker 2>For some reason, I seem to go through them a

1164
01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:55.239
<v Speaker 2>lot better and if they're good authors and they're actually

1165
01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:59.760
<v Speaker 2>like kind of getting detailed in a sense for me,

1166
01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:01.599
<v Speaker 2>And I guess it depends on the type of person

1167
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:04.079
<v Speaker 2>and if they can even visualize things in their brain

1168
01:06:04.119 --> 01:06:06.199
<v Speaker 2>at all to begin with, because some people do have

1169
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:10.199
<v Speaker 2>problems with that. I do visualize a lot of it,

1170
01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:13.519
<v Speaker 2>and I do think that's what really like put it

1171
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:16.519
<v Speaker 2>this way too, even given you props, if you actually

1172
01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:18.840
<v Speaker 2>can create an image in someone's mind and it's like

1173
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:21.880
<v Speaker 2>almost like a movie as they're reading something that's magical,

1174
01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:24.880
<v Speaker 2>because that's going to leave a series, I think a

1175
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.119
<v Speaker 2>more serious imprint in the person because they're really enveloping

1176
01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:32.760
<v Speaker 2>themselves into the story. And I think that that's that's

1177
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:35.400
<v Speaker 2>pretty impressive, you know, and I think books like that

1178
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:40.400
<v Speaker 2>are magical in themselves, so I agree.

1179
01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:42.599
<v Speaker 5>Well, you know a lot of old grimoires, they were

1180
01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:46.079
<v Speaker 5>believed to be just literally holding them, being in possession

1181
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:49.360
<v Speaker 5>of them, they were magic. You go back to the

1182
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:53.039
<v Speaker 5>biblotech blue period of the French Wars. Okay, you know

1183
01:06:54.039 --> 01:06:57.840
<v Speaker 5>they had inscriptions on them. They some people couldn't even

1184
01:06:57.880 --> 01:06:59.400
<v Speaker 5>read them, if they weren't if they were even in

1185
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:03.039
<v Speaker 5>a language they could read. But owning it, wearing it

1186
01:07:03.079 --> 01:07:06.599
<v Speaker 5>in the hidden pocket of your breast jacket, just having

1187
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:11.119
<v Speaker 5>it was an apotropeic a talisman. So, and these books

1188
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:13.880
<v Speaker 5>were small, and sometimes they had different cover jackets because

1189
01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:16.679
<v Speaker 5>they were hidden. You know, this was a very underground

1190
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:23.519
<v Speaker 5>book scenario going on. So I mean sometimes just the

1191
01:07:23.559 --> 01:07:27.320
<v Speaker 5>existence of the book being on your on your body

1192
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:29.800
<v Speaker 5>is itself a magical talisman.

1193
01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:34.920
<v Speaker 2>That's wild. You mentioned in BiblioTech, you know the bluebooks. Yeah. Yeah,

1194
01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:38.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of alchemists, like back in Germany I think too,

1195
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.519
<v Speaker 2>were like putting maybe it was wherever you were saying,

1196
01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:42.920
<v Speaker 2>they were putting them out like it was kind of

1197
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:45.880
<v Speaker 2>like like pamphlets on like some of their bigger work

1198
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:48.840
<v Speaker 2>to like kind of like advertise or whatever. But that's

1199
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:50.360
<v Speaker 2>why I haven't heard too many people mention that. I

1200
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:53.679
<v Speaker 2>was just impressed that you said that, you know, what's

1201
01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:56.519
<v Speaker 2>really weird and this is getting conspiratorial, but like when

1202
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:59.159
<v Speaker 2>I was like coming across that stuff, I was like,

1203
01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:01.000
<v Speaker 2>it's so weird. How like back then? I guess if

1204
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.159
<v Speaker 2>you want to translate that over, that'd be blue Book,

1205
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:05.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, and they're talking about magic and it's I guess,

1206
01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:07.280
<v Speaker 2>depend on what you think about aliens or where they're

1207
01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:09.880
<v Speaker 2>taking the Aldea of Aliens. I'm like, you know, we

1208
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:13.400
<v Speaker 2>got operation blue Book with that. I'm like the going

1209
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:14.920
<v Speaker 2>on here, like.

1210
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:17.079
<v Speaker 1>There's blue Beam.

1211
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It just was like, hmmm,

1212
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:22.640
<v Speaker 2>find out I don't know, just some weird shit with

1213
01:08:22.680 --> 01:08:26.119
<v Speaker 2>my conspiratorial mind. But uh yeah, so I started to

1214
01:08:26.199 --> 01:08:28.840
<v Speaker 2>ramble on about that. But yeah, that's cool that you

1215
01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:32.159
<v Speaker 2>mentioned that. Did anybody have anything that they wanted to

1216
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:33.199
<v Speaker 2>ask her to?

1217
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Uh? Yeah, Marshall, So only if you don't mind sharing,

1218
01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:42.560
<v Speaker 1>or if you you know, however you want to answer

1219
01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:47.439
<v Speaker 1>this question, can you share what is your most memorable

1220
01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:49.560
<v Speaker 1>spell you ever cast? And why.

1221
01:08:52.760 --> 01:08:52.960
<v Speaker 2>You know?

1222
01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:56.560
<v Speaker 5>And this is actually great one because I do talk

1223
01:08:56.600 --> 01:09:00.000
<v Speaker 5>about it in the diary as well, one that really

1224
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:02.720
<v Speaker 5>stood out to me. So I was building a framework

1225
01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:06.720
<v Speaker 5>of working with familiars, and these familiars were inspired by

1226
01:09:07.439 --> 01:09:10.119
<v Speaker 5>Jimmy Garry's book Traditional Witchcraft. She has the snake, the

1227
01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:11.520
<v Speaker 5>hair of the Tone, and the crow, and each one

1228
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:17.039
<v Speaker 5>of them correspond to the quarterways the north, southeast, and west,

1229
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:19.439
<v Speaker 5>and each one of them correspond with an element. And

1230
01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:26.000
<v Speaker 5>the hair of the South corresponds with Earth healing healing specifically,

1231
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:30.359
<v Speaker 5>but also I mean there's other connotations under Earth, but

1232
01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:33.800
<v Speaker 5>the hair was the familiar spirit that I wanted to

1233
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:36.840
<v Speaker 5>work with in the concept of healing. For my mother's partner.

1234
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:39.680
<v Speaker 5>She got divorced a few years back, and she fell

1235
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:41.880
<v Speaker 5>in love with this really amazing man, and within the

1236
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:44.600
<v Speaker 5>first year and a half of their relationship, he was

1237
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:50.920
<v Speaker 5>diagnosed with uterine cancer. And I decided, I asked, would

1238
01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:52.720
<v Speaker 5>you be okay with me doing a healing working. He

1239
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:56.079
<v Speaker 5>said absolutely, So I drew a sigil over a picture

1240
01:09:56.119 --> 01:09:58.000
<v Speaker 5>of him, and I put it on one of those

1241
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.920
<v Speaker 5>Novada candles, just a white and event of candle, and

1242
01:10:01.960 --> 01:10:04.279
<v Speaker 5>I fixed it with a few healing herbs and a

1243
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:06.199
<v Speaker 5>cunning oil, which is a mixture of an oil that

1244
01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:08.840
<v Speaker 5>I write about in my first book, that it's just

1245
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:14.960
<v Speaker 5>an all general purpose which is magic oil. And I

1246
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:20.680
<v Speaker 5>said this chant to the familiar hair nine days in

1247
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:23.319
<v Speaker 5>a row, and I would have my chanting beads that

1248
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:27.439
<v Speaker 5>have they connect with my familiar spirits that I've built

1249
01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.079
<v Speaker 5>the system with, and I would light the candle and

1250
01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:32.239
<v Speaker 5>I'd stare at his picture with the sigil over it,

1251
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:34.680
<v Speaker 5>with a flame flickering above it or behind it, depending

1252
01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:36.920
<v Speaker 5>on which day as the flame went down, And for

1253
01:10:37.039 --> 01:10:40.960
<v Speaker 5>nine days straight, I do one hundred chants with these beads,

1254
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.560
<v Speaker 5>and I would chant to this hair and to travel

1255
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:49.800
<v Speaker 5>to him and heal him of this cancer. And I

1256
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:54.079
<v Speaker 5>had this whole visualization where I was visualizing this hair

1257
01:10:54.279 --> 01:10:57.159
<v Speaker 5>popping up from the direction of the south, being in

1258
01:10:57.199 --> 01:11:00.600
<v Speaker 5>my presence, and then literally hopping down the road all

1259
01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:03.600
<v Speaker 5>the way to where the house where he lived, crawling

1260
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:06.640
<v Speaker 5>up and sitting on his chest and sinking into his

1261
01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:09.520
<v Speaker 5>body to be one with him, and carrying the assignment

1262
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:12.359
<v Speaker 5>that I was giving this spirit. I did this nine

1263
01:11:12.439 --> 01:11:15.399
<v Speaker 5>days in a row, and then I remember my mother

1264
01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:20.239
<v Speaker 5>called me about a week later and said that he'd

1265
01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:23.880
<v Speaker 5>had surgery to have the cancerous mass and cells removed,

1266
01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:26.199
<v Speaker 5>and they went back in to do a check on

1267
01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:29.159
<v Speaker 5>the margins and they said, I'm sorry, I'm afraid. I

1268
01:11:29.159 --> 01:11:31.000
<v Speaker 5>don't think we got it all. We're going to have

1269
01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:35.119
<v Speaker 5>to go back again, but we're gonna monitor it over

1270
01:11:35.159 --> 01:11:38.000
<v Speaker 5>this next month and a half before we make it.

1271
01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:41.840
<v Speaker 5>We schedule it again. And I was like, it didn't work,

1272
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:44.680
<v Speaker 5>it didn't work, I might have to just do it again.

1273
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:48.399
<v Speaker 5>And then I didn't think about it for a while

1274
01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:50.239
<v Speaker 5>because I was waiting for them to check. And she

1275
01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:53.239
<v Speaker 5>called me up and she said he went in and

1276
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:56.319
<v Speaker 5>there was no trace of cancer. All the cells were gone,

1277
01:11:56.680 --> 01:12:00.760
<v Speaker 5>zero margins, which was completely different diagnosed assist than they

1278
01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:03.920
<v Speaker 5>had told him after the first round of checking. And

1279
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 5>I was just kind of floored by the whole situation again,

1280
01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:11.720
<v Speaker 5>you know, I believe, but also, wow, it was and

1281
01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:13.680
<v Speaker 5>it was so important to me, and it mattered so

1282
01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:15.720
<v Speaker 5>much to me because my mom had fallen in love

1283
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:19.199
<v Speaker 5>with this man after thirty eight years of marriage and

1284
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:22.520
<v Speaker 5>ten years of questioning divorce and then wondering if she

1285
01:12:22.600 --> 01:12:24.399
<v Speaker 5>was going to be alone, what her life was going

1286
01:12:24.439 --> 01:12:27.800
<v Speaker 5>to be like, she got this second chance, and then

1287
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:29.920
<v Speaker 5>just as soon as she did, she was afraid she

1288
01:12:29.960 --> 01:12:33.199
<v Speaker 5>was going to lose this man, and so seeing now

1289
01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:35.720
<v Speaker 5>that she was not going to lose him, that he

1290
01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:38.399
<v Speaker 5>was going to be okay. They moved in together. They're

1291
01:12:38.479 --> 01:12:40.760
<v Speaker 5>still living together and happy as ever now and he

1292
01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:42.760
<v Speaker 5>still gets you know, he still has to get checked

1293
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:45.520
<v Speaker 5>up every now and again. It's never come back. And

1294
01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:46.439
<v Speaker 5>that was three years ago.

1295
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Lock. Yeah.

1296
01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:53.439
<v Speaker 5>In fact, I have a picture of it in the book.

1297
01:12:54.439 --> 01:12:57.319
<v Speaker 5>It's the picture of the candle that I used because

1298
01:12:57.800 --> 01:13:02.640
<v Speaker 5>I was just very big on documenting. I think documentation

1299
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:05.479
<v Speaker 5>of our spellcraft and taking pictures of them, even if

1300
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:07.640
<v Speaker 5>you're never going to share them publicly, but maybe just

1301
01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:13.119
<v Speaker 5>for yourself. I think that matters. It's so important to

1302
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:16.399
<v Speaker 5>see it right there, the novena, the picture of him

1303
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:18.319
<v Speaker 5>on it, my chanting beads around it.

1304
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Wow, that's awesome. That's an amazing story.

1305
01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:26.960
<v Speaker 5>Thank you for sharing, Thank you for thank you for

1306
01:13:27.159 --> 01:13:27.760
<v Speaker 5>letting me share.

1307
01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:32.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think that's so I like what you said,

1308
01:13:32.760 --> 01:13:35.760
<v Speaker 1>because one of the things that I always find.

1309
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:37.640
<v Speaker 5>To be.

1310
01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Wondrous, I suppose, is that you can I've been practicing

1311
01:13:43.039 --> 01:13:46.159
<v Speaker 1>magic since I was fifteen, and I'm forty two. I

1312
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:48.840
<v Speaker 1>am old, and I'm losing all the color that was

1313
01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:52.640
<v Speaker 1>ever in my hair. But I'm still I guess I'll

1314
01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:56.000
<v Speaker 1>do a terra reading and be like, wow, this works

1315
01:13:56.079 --> 01:14:00.359
<v Speaker 1>so well. It's still amazing. And I don't think that

1316
01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:01.960
<v Speaker 1>there's any value in losing that.

1317
01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:05.760
<v Speaker 5>Never lose your whimsy.

1318
01:14:07.279 --> 01:14:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it should still it should still give you goose

1319
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:11.840
<v Speaker 1>ones every time. And then that's that's the coolest thing

1320
01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:14.760
<v Speaker 1>about it, because with everything else in life, we do lose.

1321
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:20.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, you can you can. For example, I play,

1322
01:14:20.439 --> 01:14:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I used to. I haven't touched a guitar in almost

1323
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:25.239
<v Speaker 1>a decade, but playing guitar used to be such an

1324
01:14:25.239 --> 01:14:27.760
<v Speaker 1>important part of my life and I would play for

1325
01:14:27.800 --> 01:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>hours and hours a day, and eventually I got to

1326
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>a space where it just did not inspire me at

1327
01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:37.760
<v Speaker 1>all anymore, and so I stopped playing. And it became

1328
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:41.359
<v Speaker 1>more just about frustration about not being at the skill

1329
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:43.039
<v Speaker 1>level that I wanted to be at, and that I

1330
01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:46.720
<v Speaker 1>never get that. With magic, it's just fun and cool

1331
01:14:46.760 --> 01:14:48.640
<v Speaker 1>and it works and it makes your life better.

1332
01:14:51.079 --> 01:14:55.560
<v Speaker 2>M I experienced the same thing with the guitar. That's interesting.

1333
01:14:56.199 --> 01:14:57.439
<v Speaker 1>It's a frustrating instrument.

1334
01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>I had a lot of fun I ain't but just yeah,

1335
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:02.319
<v Speaker 2>one day I just kind of stopped, and it was

1336
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:03.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of almost like what you had said. I was

1337
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:06.239
<v Speaker 2>just frustrated that I wasn't where I would have liked

1338
01:15:06.239 --> 01:15:08.239
<v Speaker 2>to have been. I guess yeah, you know.

1339
01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:10.079
<v Speaker 1>I when I was a kid, I was like buying

1340
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:15.159
<v Speaker 1>tickets to every Joe Satriani concert. Oh shit, okay, Like

1341
01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:17.199
<v Speaker 1>I was so inspired by these guys. You could play

1342
01:15:17.199 --> 01:15:19.920
<v Speaker 1>it that way, but then you look at today's musicians

1343
01:15:20.119 --> 01:15:23.479
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, I, I'm done, I give up. Did

1344
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:26.359
<v Speaker 1>this gen ds GenZ, i aga'st gen Z, These kids

1345
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:30.159
<v Speaker 1>who were in their early twenties smoke Satriani and Steve

1346
01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:31.439
<v Speaker 1>I make him look foolish.

1347
01:15:31.439 --> 01:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>That's fine. I was gonna say it was more of

1348
01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:35.720
<v Speaker 2>a Steve I fed. That's funny you said. I was like,

1349
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:39.199
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, I love Steve OI. That's great. I've been

1350
01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:43.159
<v Speaker 2>to a couple of G three counts. It's it's yeah,

1351
01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:48.239
<v Speaker 2>that's great. Nice. Nice. Did anybody else have anything yeah

1352
01:15:48.439 --> 01:15:55.359
<v Speaker 2>that they wanted to ask before? Yeah? All right. If

1353
01:15:55.399 --> 01:15:57.439
<v Speaker 2>there's uh, I don't know. If there's one thing that

1354
01:15:57.439 --> 01:15:59.760
<v Speaker 2>you would like to leave us with, Marshall, what would

1355
01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:01.760
<v Speaker 2>you like for the listeners to get out of the

1356
01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:03.039
<v Speaker 2>all this in your work?

1357
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:07.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, I heard someone say this years ago on

1358
01:16:07.960 --> 01:16:11.079
<v Speaker 5>Seeking Witchcraft, a podcast I was listening to back in Quarantine,

1359
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:16.560
<v Speaker 5>and this person was She said, be promiscuous with your magic.

1360
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:21.680
<v Speaker 5>I think about that a lot. You see that in

1361
01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:23.359
<v Speaker 5>the book, you see that in my writing a lot.

1362
01:16:23.560 --> 01:16:30.960
<v Speaker 5>The experimentation, the promiscuity of trying things out, of building

1363
01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:34.600
<v Speaker 5>systems that you hope we're going to work, working them,

1364
01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:37.760
<v Speaker 5>and then seeing them work, or seeing how they work

1365
01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:41.359
<v Speaker 5>differently than you thought, and then adjusting to it, evolving

1366
01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:44.319
<v Speaker 5>with it. I think that magic is one of the

1367
01:16:44.359 --> 01:16:48.399
<v Speaker 5>most craziest mysterious things. And if I thought I had

1368
01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:51.119
<v Speaker 5>it all figured out, why not just roll over and

1369
01:16:51.159 --> 01:16:54.960
<v Speaker 5>die now? I'd rather continue being curious and finding out

1370
01:16:55.159 --> 01:16:59.880
<v Speaker 5>and learning from, you know, my own experiences, from others' experiences.

1371
01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:07.319
<v Speaker 5>I hope people step away from trying to be perfect

1372
01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:09.119
<v Speaker 5>and instead just trying.

1373
01:17:11.479 --> 01:17:13.640
<v Speaker 1>You'll remember that meme from a couple of years ago

1374
01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:15.880
<v Speaker 1>with the guys like that, the fuck around and find

1375
01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:19.840
<v Speaker 1>out chart, that was the most perfect explanation of magic

1376
01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:21.079
<v Speaker 1>that has ever existed.

1377
01:17:22.039 --> 01:17:24.439
<v Speaker 5>And honestly, be permiscuous your magic is a really nice

1378
01:17:24.439 --> 01:17:25.840
<v Speaker 5>way of saying, fuck around and find out.

1379
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's true. That's true. I will even say, like

1380
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:32.640
<v Speaker 2>as a ceremonial magician, I mean there was Tom's where

1381
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I could literally mind fuck where am I gonna put

1382
01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:36.720
<v Speaker 2>the middle pillar ritual? And you am I gonna do

1383
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:39.199
<v Speaker 2>it before the lb RP in between after you know this?

1384
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:43.039
<v Speaker 2>That so like eventually I would have to just you know,

1385
01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:44.840
<v Speaker 2>just wing it and see what works for me, try

1386
01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:48.279
<v Speaker 2>multiple different ways do this, and then eventually for me,

1387
01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I did find my own rhythm that I just felt natural.

1388
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:56.680
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yes, I totally agree that I'm Marshall great stuff.

1389
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:01.399
<v Speaker 2>All right, Uh, before we wrap it all up, let's, uh, Judith,

1390
01:18:01.479 --> 01:18:03.760
<v Speaker 2>let's remind everybody where they can find all your amazing stuff.

1391
01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:09.319
<v Speaker 4>First, thank you Marshall for a wonderful conversation. I would

1392
01:18:09.399 --> 01:18:13.720
<v Speaker 4>love to continue having conversations with you on this topic.

1393
01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:18.479
<v Speaker 4>Everyone else. You can find me on YouTube, Spreaker and

1394
01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:23.119
<v Speaker 4>x as the Loom and again, thank you again. This

1395
01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:24.399
<v Speaker 4>is a wonderful conversation.

1396
01:18:27.199 --> 01:18:29.439
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you coming on, thank you for joining us

1397
01:18:30.159 --> 01:18:32.439
<v Speaker 2>and Sona please let everybody know.

1398
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the same sentiment, Marshall. I love interacting with you.

1399
01:18:36.279 --> 01:18:40.000
<v Speaker 1>This has been a lot of fun. I'm really excited

1400
01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:42.399
<v Speaker 1>to read the new book and it's it's you get

1401
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:43.359
<v Speaker 1>it now right.

1402
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:48.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, absolutely, it's available on Amazon, the ebook and paperback Killer.

1403
01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can't wait. I love the you did this,

1404
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I love the way you're right and you're a huge

1405
01:18:52.920 --> 01:18:55.159
<v Speaker 1>inspiration to me. So this has been a lot of fun.

1406
01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:58.560
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, thanks thanks for having me on again. Of

1407
01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:00.000
<v Speaker 1>course it's been great.

1408
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:02.239
<v Speaker 2>No, thank you for jumping on, man, I appreciate it.

1409
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>That was awesome. That was a great time. And Marshall,

1410
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:07.039
<v Speaker 2>please let everybody know where they can find anything you'd

1411
01:19:07.079 --> 01:19:07.800
<v Speaker 2>like to tell them about.

1412
01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:10.520
<v Speaker 5>Well, first of all, thank you all so much for

1413
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:13.479
<v Speaker 5>having me. It's it's truly been a pleasure. If you

1414
01:19:13.520 --> 01:19:16.479
<v Speaker 5>want to find me, please look me up on Instagram, TikTok,

1415
01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:19.560
<v Speaker 5>and threads. I do a lot of ship posting on threads,

1416
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:22.680
<v Speaker 5>and I also do a lot of like horror movie posting.

1417
01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:25.039
<v Speaker 2>I love nice.

1418
01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:29.159
<v Speaker 5>On threads and things that I'm watching and a lot

1419
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:30.880
<v Speaker 5>of them have to do with the occult and witchcraft.

1420
01:19:31.640 --> 01:19:33.640
<v Speaker 5>So you can find me on all of these at

1421
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:38.039
<v Speaker 5>Witch of Southern Light by my books Cunning Words of Grimmar,

1422
01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:40.119
<v Speaker 5>Tails and Magic, The Red Mother, and the Diary of

1423
01:19:40.159 --> 01:19:43.199
<v Speaker 5>an American Witch, all available on Amazon and check out

1424
01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:47.000
<v Speaker 5>the link tree and all of my profiles. I have

1425
01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:50.399
<v Speaker 5>everything you could want that I've ever put out on there,

1426
01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:53.840
<v Speaker 5>my Patreon, the podcast, my books, and a lot of

1427
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:58.640
<v Speaker 5>free resources, herbal correspondences, planetary correspondences, how to work with

1428
01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:03.159
<v Speaker 5>planetary spirits, make making purple tintures, lots of just free

1429
01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:05.000
<v Speaker 5>information that people can have.

1430
01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, your link tree is very impressive. I was looking

1431
01:20:07.840 --> 01:20:10.479
<v Speaker 1>for you before we started. I'm like, whoa dang, and.

1432
01:20:10.439 --> 01:20:13.319
<v Speaker 5>It's not what my stuff, it's stuff that I've accumulated

1433
01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.359
<v Speaker 5>that has helped me. And I was like, this helped me,

1434
01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:17.760
<v Speaker 5>this could help other practitioners. So I just put on

1435
01:20:17.840 --> 01:20:19.920
<v Speaker 5>my link tree so everyone has that free access.

1436
01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Cool.

1437
01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is awesome. Nice. Yeah, I might have to

1438
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:26.880
<v Speaker 2>check that out. Uh, Marshall, thank you so much for

1439
01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:28.840
<v Speaker 2>coming on. That was a blast. I really had a

1440
01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:30.279
<v Speaker 2>great time. That was a lot of fun, and I

1441
01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:32.760
<v Speaker 2>thought that was some really good Uh. I felt like

1442
01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:34.319
<v Speaker 2>there was some d points there and then there was

1443
01:20:34.359 --> 01:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, I go to overall, it was a great, great,

1444
01:20:36.439 --> 01:20:40.279
<v Speaker 2>great discussion and I would definitely a nice balance. Yeah, yes, exactly, yes,

1445
01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:43.359
<v Speaker 2>I thought exactly. Definitely get you on again in the

1446
01:20:43.359 --> 01:20:45.319
<v Speaker 2>future and talk about some other stuff for sure. I'm

1447
01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:47.800
<v Speaker 2>sure you have a plethora of things that would be interesting.

1448
01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:50.880
<v Speaker 2>And thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up.

1449
01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for the questions, thank you Judith for mentioning

1450
01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the questions. I appreciate you. And until the next one,

1451
01:20:56.840 --> 01:20:58.119
<v Speaker 2>everybody be well.

1452
01:20:58.239 --> 01:20:58.479
<v Speaker 1>Lada