Speaker 1: What is a fellas, Because I am Dan Valley coming
at you with another twenty twenty four twenty twenty five
NBA season look ahead. We are onto the Memphis Grizzlies,
which means I got to speak with Keith Parish of
the Fast Break Breakfast podcast as well as the Grits
and Grinds podcast, which covers the Memphis Grizzlies specifically, and
Fast Break Breakfast covers the entire league. Follow Keith on Twitter.
The handle will be on the screen in the YouTube
and podcast description as well. At Fast Break Break though
spelled exactly as it sounds, we get into all the
things Grizzlies. The one quick note, we did record this
right before. It was like a couple hours after we
wrapped recording, we got the news about Gigi Jackson's foot
broken foot and you need to have surgery. So that's not
included in our analysis, So apply it as you will.
It doesn't change a ton, that's I mean. It changes
a ton for the Grizzlies, and the impact of that
is going to be pretty significant, just because when you
look at this team, they're kind of light on those
wing type of players. I think this will increase even
though he's smaller the importance of Vince Williams Junior, but
we talk a ton about Vince Williams Junior as well
as Gigi Jackson, so I still think you really enjoy
the episode. And just a quick reminder, if you are
new around these parts, please remember to subscribe. We cover
the entire league, and we do these podcasts make sure
that we give at least, you know, ample time to
every single team once a year, but we do do
these exercises where we talk about every team throughout the
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Let's get this a little bit longer for an intro
than normal, just because I have to do the gg
Jackson note. Bummer for him, bummer for the Grizzlies who
can't seem to escape the injury bug. But let's get
to talking more about the Grizzlies in detail with Keith
Parish of grizz and Grinds and Fast Break Breakfast. Keith,
welcome back, Thank you so much again for coming on
this year for our Memphis Grizzlies look Ahead always a
great time. The most important question though.
Speaker 2: How the heck are you doing?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: I am doing fantastic. Dan, Thanks for having me. It's
always fun coming on Hardwood Knocks talking about my favorite team.
Speaker 1: Well, this team is interesting for me because I feel like,
with the exception of whenever we talk about the Bulls
on this podcast with a local expert, people are they
don't tend to ether their teams for what happened over
the off season. And I won't use the word ether
for what you said, but I found your impressions of
the Grizzlies off season fascinating to where when you went
through you graded it for the Grizz and Grinds podcast,
it was marked by basically relative and action aside from
tax stuck and getting Zach Eaty, which I guess makes
sense in a nutshell because we have so little information
on what this core was supposed to be with Marcus Smart.
But just what did you make of kind of the
decision to not make a ton of changes this year
be super aggressive during the off season.
Speaker 2: Well, the difference between me and like i'd say, a
Bulls podcaster, like the Bulls podcasters have legitimate grievances. I have,
let's call them first world problems, you know, like a
like the Grizzlies are good, and the Grizzlies are well run,
and the Grizzlies have a competent front office. The Grizzlies
win basketball games, so I wouldn't call it an ethering.
I just have some mild criticisms about a trend that's
been occurring for the Grizzlies. It's been occurring since they
broke through in twenty twenty two. That team that was
the we Hear Grizzlies, where you know, job was amazing
and like Desmond Baan had to breakout and then you
had like an awesome bench. They won fifty six games
that year, lost in the second round to the Warriors
in a very very close series. The Grizzlies had the
lead in the fourth quarter of three of their four losses.
They were ahead of the final two minutes of two
of the four losses. Ja Moran got hurt, Steven Adams
had COVID, Desmond Bain was hospitaled for a back thing.
So we were on the precipice in our minds of
greatness several years ago. We were basically this year's Thunder
where everyone's like, whoa, the thunder are so young, they
have their whole future ahead of us. So I'm now
in like jaded few years later where things have not
gone perfectly for the Grizzlies since then, and there's there
hasn't been like one huge like mistake I think for
the front office or anything. I think there were some
questions asked by me and others about like the decision
to let some of the valuable veterans go after that
twenty twenty two season and then turn over to youth.
They drafted a bunch of young guys, and then since
then they've dealt with things. They had injuries, massive Steven
Adams and Brandon Clark injuries, and then Joa Morant's off
court stuff, John Morant getting suspended, then joh Morant getting hurt.
Last year's to total wash. They lose a bunch of games.
So that being said, my worrisome trend that I keep mentioning,
it's like, hey, we continually, in my mind, don't maximize
the roster around our three best players, those being Job Morant,
Desmond Baine, and Jared Jackson junior. Now they did go
out and get Marcus Smart last summer, thinking all right,
we made a mistake not being aggressive, but also that move,
while it was pitched that way, was actually a replacement
of other valuable players in Dylan Brooks and Tias Jones.
And so I kept being like, I feel like I
keep getting this storyline fed to mean. I don't know
who's doing it. Maybe I'm just listening to other Grizzlies analysts,
but they're like, oh, yeah, we got this guy, and
I'm like, yeah, but we lost these guys. Those seem
like sideways moves. So jump all the way ahead to
this offseason. Going into the off season, I think the
request of everyone who followed the Grizzlies, or the expectation
for everyone who followed the Grizzlies, was all right, we
need a starting center. We made a decision that we
can't wait on Steven Adams to get healthy. Let's go
ahead and move him for a couple of second round picks.
We need a center, and then we need more size
and shooting. Even when our team's fully healthy, I don't
think we have enough size and enough shooting. And there
were a lot of avenues open to the Grizzlies, and
many of them, if not most of them, would take
the Grizzlies into the luxury tax for the first time.
Just like the Core four, Big GrITT and grind Era.
It's like, all right, it's time to pay the tax. Finally,
all the extensions have kicked in for Bain and Jaron
and Jaw. We've paid to keep some guys. We have
Marcus Smart now to build on this team. Finally, the
Grizzies are going to dip their toe into the luxury
tax line. And this offseason, which you said I sort
of ethered, they drafted Zach Edy, they salaried m Desire Williams.
They have an open roster spot as we as we
record at the end of August, they have an open
roster spot because of luxury tax concerns. So this offseason
they tried to fix their problems through the draft, which
is it's risky. I mean, I'm excited about Zach Edy.
I think it could be awesome for the Grizzlies. But
when I just graded the off season, what did they
do this offseason? They used their draft picks. They have
fewer playable NBA players right now than they did last
year when they started the season. Of course, during the season,
they had almost no playable NBA players because everyone got hurt.
But that's why this offseason I'm like, I think the
Gris are gonna be good. But if you ask me
to grade the offseason, I mean they didn't do anything.
They drafted some guys, they used roster spots on rookies.
We have Jalen Wells and Zach Edy. I'm not saying
Zion Williams is good, but I think he's gonna be
in the NBA in a couple of seasons, and as
opposed to nothing, I do have Zion Williams, but right
now the Grizzier sit under the tax. That was my
very long monologue on why I'm not thrilled with the
off season, even though I am very excited about the team.
Speaker 1: Uh, very quickly, I think that's the nicest thing you've
ever said to me about Zaire Williams, that you think
he's gonna be in the league in a couple of years.
Speaker 2: So I mean, is he not? I don't know. I
was looking at the Nets roster and I'm like, is
Zire even gonna play? I don't know. I think Zion
Williams is an NBA but who knows maybe maybe maybe not.
Speaker 1: So I've been asking people to open things up. What's
their biggest storyline that they're tracking for their team leading
into next season? And I pride myself on kind of
knowing what the answer is going to be for most
of these teams. From my guess, I have zero idea
what you're about to tell me when I feel like
I could maybe guess, But there's like three to five
things that I could if I was to just ask this,
like answer it myself. So, what is your biggest storyline
that you're monitoring for this team entering next year?
Speaker 2: Like could it?
Speaker 1: It could be just the health, it could be fit
of Zach Eaty. We really haven't seen the fit of
Marcus Smart. With everyone, there's just so many different directions
to go.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest storyline is pretty simple. This is
a keep the main thing, the main thing. The biggest
storyline is is John Morant back? Like if John Moran
is just that guy we briefly saw it last year.
I mean it was almost a storybook last year when
he first came back, he missed the first twenty five
games that Chris is were six and nineteen. In his
first game back, the first game Ja Morant played last year,
he hit a buzzer beater to beat the Pelicans. He
had thirty four points that they rallied from twenty four down.
He's a shot at the buzzer to win. They win
their first four games with Jah Morant and it's like WHOA,
We're back. But then after nine games he gets injured
out for the season. He won Western Conference Player of
the Week the first week he played last year, so
it looked like John Morant was back last season, but
we only got nine games. So the main issue for
the Grizzlies is John Morant gonna come back and be
the all NBA caliber player that he was beforehand. There's
no reason he shouldn't be. Still very very young, still
very very good, but it seems like the whole league
has forgotten about John Morant. And I listened to a
lot of preview podcasts. I read stuff I see like
the player rankings, and I never get upset about a
player ranking. I know there for entertainment, but my eyebrow
did go up very very high when it's like jam
maris the thirtieth best player in the NBA, like, based
on what I've seen that most of them, like like
like that ballpark where I'm like, the guy is a
thirty point per game scorer, the guy can't be guarded,
the guy's a great passer, and the guy has won.
He's won consistently. It's weird where people draw in the
off the court stuff talking about jaw and they I
don't know what it is, and they say things about him.
They describe his game as like, doesn't play a winning
style and I don't think I'm fighting a straw man here.
Like I see people saying stuff, and I'm like, he's won.
He's won his entire career. They were supposed to be
awful his rookie season, and they were competitive and good.
They would have made the playoffs if they hadn't come
up with a fictitious bubble tournament thing where you had
to qualify for the playoffs in the middle of the season.
Dan they changed the rules for the playoffs.
Speaker 1: They did it. They did it to him, p Ja Moran.
Speaker 2: They did it to give Zion Williamson a chance of
making the playoffs. I can't believe the league presidents or
the whoever's involved signed off on it. If I was
in a fantasy league and you change the rules halfway
through to keep my team out. No, John Morant's one
John Moran, and the playoffs has been amazing. He's even
steped up his level of play in the playoffs. So
the biggest storyline for the Grizzlies is basically is John
Rant gonna play seventy games and reclaim I think his
rightful place as being one of the top fifteen players
in the league.
Speaker 1: Is there, like a because he's still only twenty five,
he's super young. Yeah, is the next step for him
still just like, hey, he hasn't shot thirty five percent
on spot up three since his rookie year. Let's just
have that happen because the volume is like kind of there.
I mean, I know last year he didn't play a
timpl like when you look at kind of the trajectory
of the three point attempts, like, okay, I'm okay with
the volume now if those things could fall at and
I'm not asking him to hit all these like complicated
step backs, but that just kind of feels like offensively
the last frontier for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some formula for how good the Grizzlies are
going to win next year. There's some like fake formula
that I'm gonna make up. It's some combination of Jamarant
games played times, Jamarant three point percentage, like if Ja Morant,
maybe include Gig Jackson in there too, Like if Jaw
and Dig can make like thirty four percent of their
three pointers and also be healthy in play, the Grizzes
are gonna win a lot of games in the regular season.
If Josh You's thirty two percent for three, it's gonna
be a little bit a little bit harder. So yeah,
I think still that jump shot, if he could add that,
just get to the Dearn Fox level of knocking down
a few more jumpers, that's gonna help his game, I
think tremendously. Maybe the other thing you always ask about
his defense, Although Jaw has been he's been a part
of really good defensive teams, So I think he can
do enough there to not be a total just uh
sieve and allow everyone to penetrate past him. I do think, yeah,
maybe the final level for Jomran's game is just consistently
being able to hit three pointers. We're not asking for
the world. Thirty four percent would be great, do you
think so?
Speaker 1: Looking at last year and I know Desmond Bain was
kind of already headed down this path, but like the
extra just self creation or the extra layer of difficulty
assigned to both him and Jaron Jackson Junior on offense,
do you from what you saw from them last season,
and even like kind of Jaron Jackson Junior specifically, like
you even just look at his you know, his ISO percentage,
like basically like tripled in terms of volume last year.
Do you find that as something that will be valuable
in the larger context of this healthy team. Like, Okay,
now the Grizzlies are healthy, but Jaron Jackson Junior Desmond
Bain have explored different depths of their game, not just
because of the Jah Moran injury, but like I mean,
Bain was injured at point, so that that shifts onus
onto Jackson Junior. We know Marcus Smart missed a ton
of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean absolutely, it should help them tremendously. The
big question for the Grizzlies going into the last two
seasons was the half court offense, and a lot of
this stuff was like, all right, we figured out the
regular season two years in a row. The Grizzlies were
second in the West, but the question was, but how
do we advance further in the playoffs, and you would
look to maybe our formula of winning based on forcing
turnovers and getting offensive rebounds is not sustainable when the
game slows down in the postseason. So they spent a
lot of energy trying to come up with ways to
be better in the half court. They struck out. I
think a few of them. Like one of the reasons
they let like Kyle Anderson go is because his shot
looks funny and they weren't sure that it was the
best option for the postseason, so they brought in guys
whose shots were more pretty, who ended up being much
worse players. But I think they keep thinking, we have
to fix the half court offense. And I think one
of the silver linings to last season, besides getting the
ninth pick and getting Zach Edy, one of the silver
linings is Jared Jackson Junior got so many reps creating
his own shot. Jared Jackson Junior's points per isolation was
incredible last year and he was used. Yeah, it was
one of the best in the league. I mean, that's
your I believe purview. It's not me, Dan, this is
the NBA math. You tell me the numbers I'll just
repeat him, but the average.
Speaker 1: Two point two points per ISO possession Keith.
Speaker 2: Now we're talking. Yeah, I heard it was over four.
But that's fine. Jaron creating his own shot. I think
that should help them greatly. Desmond Baan also like he
averaged like twenty four points per game basically and also
became more of a creator. I mean, one of the things.
Maybe we'll get to it, Like Marcus Smart didn't really
work that well as like we thought maybe well, we
thought he would work well as a as a point
like the idea was like, oh, he'll replace Dylan Brooks
in the starting lineup, but also replaced Tys Jones as
a backup point guard. He was not good as a facilitator,
But all of a sudden, Desmond Bain was like, hey,
desib Ban is a pretty good point guard or combo
guard for the lack of a better term, Like he
was a good facilitator. So the hope is a lot
of those half court concerns that you that are going
to be a problem, maybe when you get to the playoffs,
those are going to be fixed by having more and
more guys who can create their own shot. When there's
five seconds left on the shot clock. It's not going
to be just Jahn Morant please bail us out, or
just getting up on the rim. Maybe we'll grab the rebound.
Jaw and Desmond and Jaren all should be able to
create for themselves. And I think that's just going to
make it so much easier as far as scoring for
this team. When you get those huge clutch possessions end
of games and in the postseason.
Speaker 1: I think we've maybe even Gigi Jackson will take it
upon himself to soak up some of those some of
those reps.
Speaker 2: I meant, I don't Gg Jackson is a big question mark.
He absolutely is one of the best guys on the
team at creating his own shot. Whether or not it's
a good shot, who knows. I doubt he's going to
be on the court in those pressure situations. He's not
like going to be part of the closing five or anything.
But I think eventually, you know, we I do hope
that will be yet another avenue, another outlet for a
guy who can get you points, you know, when the
shot cucks running down.
Speaker 1: So are we able to take anything away from the
Marcus Smart experience last year again, and just to reiterate,
I'm sure anyone who listens to your podcest so is
the four players that were all interested in playing two
hundred and thirty eight possessions together last year, joh j Aaron,
Marcus Smart hasn't been so like, there's nothing to take
away from that. And Marcus Smart had like kind of
ubsurd shot making by his standards inside the arc, didn't
shoot too well from three. But I kept coming back
to the turnovers, just on the drives in the pick
and roles. How big of a concern is that versus well,
that's just a function of look at what he was
playing within last year.
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, I'm trying to remember back there weren't
that many games, Dan, let's see, I think he played.
He played twenty games. So you mentioned the turnovers. That
was one of the things where I remember, Like, you know,
as a fan, you want to feel good about your team,
and maybe sometimes when you feel like you feel somebody's
critics I think your team, you naturally want to push back.
But one of the things I was I remember last
year being like, look at Marcus Smart's shooting percentages and
his turnovers, that's absurd, Like the number of turnovers he
has is outrageous. His shooting percentage is three hoo percentage.
I mean, he's not a good three point shooter, but
this was still on the bottom level, lower level of
his career numbers. Again only twenty games, which a small
sample size. He did steal the ball a pretty good amount.
I think it was two steals per game. But going
back to your main question, I don't know if we
can take that much from it. It it looked bad
the look of him playing with Desmond bay and Jery
Jackson Junior. The Grizzlies were bad. Like the Grizzlies last year,
were basically the worst offense in the NBA the entire year.
And when you look at the season total, you say, well, yes,
they missed all their players. Desmond Baan only played half
the season, John missed the whole season, Marcus missed three
fourths of the season. But if you look at the
first twenty games, first fifteen games when Jared Jackson Junior
Doesn'tvane and Marcus Smart were all there, and we thought
that Grizzlies were going to be competitive. During those twenty
five games when Jaw was out, the offense was last
in the NBA during those games too, so like it was,
it was a hard watch. Now, maybe it was just
a slow acclamation process because the last few games that
Marcus played it got better. And it's hard to remember
because the season was so bad. But Marcus's last three games,
the Grizzlies were on a road trip. They beat the Lakers,
they beat the Suns, they beat the Mavericks, and all
those teams played all their guys. This wasn't in a
situation where they were like resting players. No, no, no. The
Grizzlies with John Moriant blew out the Lakers and then
John Murran got hurt. That was his last game of
the year. The next two games they beat the Suns,
they beat the MAVs. Marcus Mart's playing great, Vince Williams
Junior has emerged been a big part of the lineup,
so they started winning. So maybe you can say it
was starting to come together. But I think overall conclusion, no,
it's hard to draw any firm conclusions about what Marcus
did last.
Speaker 1: Year, so it's fair to then still be hopeful about
like what his fit will be on this team. Then
I feel like it would be unfair to say it's
not great. But I do feel like the whole theory
of I will say based off what I saw from
Marcus mart last season, and he played whatever it was
twenty games. I did not see all twenty of those games.
I've watched possessions for most of them. It puts more
pressure on Desmond Vane to like be that type of playmaker.
And you do have Vince Williams with like see how
he factors in. Derek Rose is still floating around on
this team right hes still on their payroll. But I
feel less confident in Marcus mart And I never felt
too confident because the turnover stuff was an issue in Boston,
by the way, and they had a good team, like
he wasn't dealing like they were healthy a lot of
the times while he was there. So I think I'm
more I think I'm less sold to ever on the
idea that Marcus Martin come in and kind of steward
the offense in some of their secondary lineup. So that's
probably the thing with him. I'll be watching most and
not just in the sense of can he do it?
How much of an opportunity are they going to even
give him to do it at this point?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the big question is still how he's
gonna fit once John Morant is there. We only got
a handful of games, you know, with with John des
Marcus and Jaren. And the thing I keep saying, like
one of my thoughts that I had that I that
I keep repeating now is like if Marcus is playing
with the other presumed best players in Zach Edy, like
you basically don't want Marcus Smart to shoot any Marcus
Smart shot is a shot that Joa Morant, Desmond Bane,
Jared Jackson Junior or Zach Edy aren't shooting. And those
four guys are way more efficient at scoring. So I
think one of the big question marks for the Grizzlies
like those are probably the presumed starters. I've been saying
for like nine months now that Vince Williams Junior should
be the starter because Vince does not shoot unless he's
absolutely wide open, unless he's dunking or wide open from three,
Vince is not gonna shoot. So I think it does
maybe makes more sense to have a lower usage defender,
rebounder guy in there and then maybe some second unit stuff.
Marcus let it fly, brother, and then you can close
games with Marcus. I mean, Marcus, he is a winner
and he makes those winning plays, right whether yeah, Jamaran
selfish guy man nine assists per game Selfish, No, yeah,
Marcus Mart you know he's gonna come up with the
loose ball, he's gonna make the charge, he's gonna block
a shot, get a steal, he's gonna be hit a
clutch three probably, and so like, I'm finally closing with Marcus.
But right now the question is like, yeah, how does
it fit when everybody's healthy and you mentioned it, like,
is there still hope? Yeah, I think there is still
hope that that's gonna be the big thing. Also, it
better be because he did nothing this offseason. Dan, I
think this's I mean joking aside, this soft season is
I think maybe it's generously explained, if you don't just
think they're trying to avoid paying the luxury tax, it's
generously explained by saying no, no, no, no. They want to
see what they have because they didn't get to This
is a this is a reaffirmation of the previous offseason.
Where are we traded for Marcus Smart? So let's see
what we have before we make any kind of big,
aggressive upgrade on the wing or we traded away any
future picks or anything. Let's see what it looks like
with Marcus alongside John, Jaron and Dez.
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't have to be a big They could
have at least used their mid level exception that would.
Speaker 2: We don't do that in Memphis.
Speaker 1: We've gone almost twenty two minutes without talking about Zach Eaty,
which is either terrible or fantastic podcasting. I don't know which.
I have many questions about him, but the first one
is what do you think is going to be most
noticeable or what are you most excited to watch about
his impact on this team? And why is it Instagram
hype videos with John Morant?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why it's Instagram hype videos.
I mean I do. People are just excited about new guys.
I'm excited about Zach edy internet phenomenon. It seems like
he has tons of fans and I gotta say, man,
he drives traffic. So definitely, when you're advertising this show,
you need to use some Zach Ey art. I mean,
I guess it's just you play college that long. I mean,
he's a college basketball player that I knew of and
knew what he looked like to break through to my
total ignorance of college basketball. The guy had to be
a big deal. But what does he bring besides height,
which is not to be underrated. The Grizzlies need height.
He brings hopefully unbelievable screening, which is going to be
I think very key to getting these downhill lanes for
ja Morant and Desimbane to get back to the basket.
The Grizzlies, I think are going to be one of
the top paint scoring teams. Again, we're not.
Speaker 1: I'm sure teams have this data available, but I want
a stat of like how much space is like generated
by these screens, like the oh it opens up, because
Zach Edy will fucking probably set the record for that,
or at least that.
Speaker 2: First summer league game he played. I think they're playing
the Jazz in the Salt Lake City Summer League. Everyone
was like hyping up. You know, he blocked a shot
or like he he dunked on Walker ketchl That's fine,
But one of the first plays he set a screen
for Scottie Pippen Junior and Scotty Pippen Junior had like
nine yards of space in front of him, like it
was the I was like, I don't know screen space,
generated screen assists something come up with an acronym. But yeah,
I think the the you know, like the screens that
even Steven Adams was great at the ones where you
spread your legs a little bit too far, but they
don't call it like Zach Edy is so big, he's
going to free up everybody so much. And then beyond that,
just his size and rebounding inside, the way he was
just pushing guys all. We only saw him play like
one in a third Summer League games, but the way
he boxed out it was Brooke low Pezzi in and
it was Steven Adams just move like guys can't get
around him, like they had no hope of getting around him.
So the rebounding, the screening, and then I think he's
not gonna get double teamed. Ever, he should be able
to put the ball in the basket pretty easily, I
think a lot. I think it's gonna be a big
mismatch for teams on the offensive end. So I think
all of that stuff is really going to unlock a
lot of things for the Grizzlies.
Speaker 1: Is there when you look at some of his limitations,
What would be your biggest concern about leaning on him,
you know, to play such a significant role as.
Speaker 2: A rookie, I think the only one. And I'm again
I'm not an expert on any of the draft guys yet,
Like I said, I don't know any of the college
players unless they're Zach Edie heard there. That famous the
defensive issue on if he has to guard, you know,
a perimeter player, if he gets switched out, you assume
that he's gonna play constantly and drop and not actually
get switched on to anybody the perimeter, Like what's that
gonna look like? How much of a scramble mode is
that gonna put the Grizzlies into and put them at disadvantages?
Is he gonna be able to, you know, guard a
guy like Brook Lopez who just stands on the perimeter, Like,
are you gonna lose some stuff there? But I have
very few concerns about it, Like, I think it's gonna
be totally fine, especially when you consider the rest of
the Grizzlies players. They're very good at defense. You have
Jerry Jackson junior freed up to be more of the
roamer he was the year he won Defensive Player of
the Year. You have Marcus Smart even if he's lost
a step. Very good defender. Vince Williams Junior is a
great defender. This was a team last year that was
in the top ten in defense despite having none of
their regular players. They lost their grip on that in
the final few weeks of the season. But like this
team has been good at defense every year under Taylor Jenkins,
I think they have enough play to make up for
that for whatever limitations Zach ed you might have on
the perimeter, but then in the paint he's gonna be
this huge deterrent. And also I think his rebounding, I mean,
end the possession with the defensive rebound, He's gonna boost
a lot there. So because of that, I have maybe
not that many concerns, you know, about maybe issues he
has guarding ball handlers and having it to go out
on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: I it's funny that I share the non concern with
you because I felt so much differently about Donovan Klingen
in Portland and then he kind of sold me in
Summer League with Zach Edi. Look at the personnel around
the Grizzlies and I feel like they just have Jared,
just you and Marcus Smart, Vince Williams if he's on
the floor like they have the guys, or if you
need to bring Zach Edy out, like I wouldn't even
call it scramble mode. Like they're just gonna be smarter
with their rotations and discipline enough where I would know.
Do I want to see like Zach Edy like coming
all the way out and guarding above the free throw
line all the time? No, but like we've seen him
do it a little bit, and they have the personnel
to insulate him when teams try to force him to
do that. And so I find myself I think higher
on his fit that I feel like I really should
be for a team that is this good and they're
leaning on a player who's so new, which I guess
kind of leads me to my next question is like
he's just gonna play a huge role for them right
out of the gate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think so, I would guess that he starts.
As far as the number of minutes he plays, I
think that's a big question mark. They they didn't even
play Steven Adams that many minutes. They didn't play before him,
Jonnestan Chuns didn't play that many minutes. I'm curious if
they play him more than like twenty four minutes a game,
I would guess it's gonna be somewhere in that twenty
to twenty four minutes a game. I know a Purdue
he was very healthy and he played a ton of
minutes for that basketball team. I don't think they're gonna
lean that hard in him. Also, the Grizzlies typically keep
their minutes low for their for their team, they just
spread out the playing time. They normally played ten guys
every game, but only good.
Speaker 1: Enough to where that's not a problem during the regular
season too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I think. I also think organizationally, it's
just part of their It's their belief that, hey, we're
gonna play ten deep the whole season. We're gonna give
these guys experience early, even if there are growing pains,
so they're ready to contribute down the line. And I
think it's paid off for him and a lot of
the guys who have developed under their watch. But yeah,
I think he's gonna be asked to start. And one
of the questions if you have a question about the Grizzlies,
you know or a concern, I think it is you
know what happens in games? He doesn't play like Edie.
Same situation. What happens in games that Jaron Jackson Junior
doesn't play the big man rotation? There are competent players
on the roster. Brandon Clark coming off the Achilles injury,
he played a few games last year. If he can
return to form totally, that's a guy you depend on
and like. But also I don't think he can play
alongside Zach Edy unless Edie actually makes three pointers like
he was doing in some of these workout clips. So like,
Brandon Clark maybe not an awesome fit alongside Edie. And
then Santi al Dama. This is the last year Santi
al Dama's rookie deal. A lot of questions about him,
and the question for the Grizzlies is going to be
in in games that Jaren misses or that Zach misses
or even when those guys are off the court. Yeah,
what's the big man rotation gonna be? Like? And how
effective will it be?
Speaker 1: That was actually my like, how do you is it
just overgoing to like like I guess how I mean,
Jared Jackson is gonna play more minutes than Zach Edie,
But is this gonna be a situation where Okay, Zach
Edy's off the court, So we see Jared Jackson Junior
in Santi al Dama. Is it gonna be more of
a hockey like we're gonna see Brandon Clark in Santia
al Dama, Or we're just gonna see like Gigi slide
up to the four next to Jaron Jackson Junior. Like
if you had to guess, or if you were running
this team, like how do you manage those secondary frontline minutes?
Speaker 2: I think their priority is going to be to get
a lot of Jaren and Brandon front court minutes together.
That's always been an incredible pairing for the Grizzlies historically,
just outrageous two man net rating for those guys. It
feels like it's always like plus fifteen per one hundred
posessions for plus seventeen, you know, most years. So I
think that's what they're gonna normally close with, and I
think that's what they're gonna focus on. The issue again
comes up with like what happens when Jaren doesn't play
every lineup, every big man combination works with Jared Jackson Junior.
That's one of the great compliments of Jared, Like Jared's awesome.
He's a fantastic player. It's a good defender. Whatever criticisms
people have about his rebounding, it's like, get over it.
Like no one said, why isn't Andre Karalinko a better rebounder?
I don't remember it. No one said it back then.
Speaker 1: No U. But he didn't play for tm USA, that's right.
Speaker 2: That's right, I didn't. I didn't see Joel Embiid owning
the glass in the Olympics. Anyways, Uh, what happens when
Jared comes off? And that is the huge question mark.
I do think they will try to you know, they'll
start Edie, start Jaren. One of them will come off.
If if Brandon comes off, I mean, excuse me. If
Jared comes off first, then I think Santy is the
guy to play alongside you know, Edie. But if it's
the other ways, I just think you're focused on Jared
with Santy, Jaren with Brandon, and then it still is
a question mark. And that's one of the issues maybe
I have with the roster. It's still like it feels
one big short or one useful big I know they
signed Jay Huff, who was awesome in Summer League. I
believe he's twenty seven year old guy on a two way.
Maybe Jay Huff is the answer, but it did seem like,
all right, if Jared's in foul trouble or if Edie
and Jared missed some games, it's a question mark, like
maybe they do that they sized down with Gigi at
the four, j Claaravia at the four, Vince Williams Junior,
or Marcus Smart at the four, And that goes back
to the overall lack of size for this team. Outside
of Gig Jackson, there aren't wings with size really, and
it seems like the NBA, the good teams have wings
with size, So that is I think a valid question mark.
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned two guys I wanted to talk about.
Let's start with Gigi. What sort of stood out to
you the most about what he did for the grizz
last season.
Speaker 2: I mean, the number of ways that he can score
is incredible, and part of that is when you factor
in his age he was the youngest player in the
NBA last year. Also when you factor in his size,
you know, like six' eight, six ' nine, the fact
that he made threes but also could create his own
jump shot and then he'd get to the basket. I mean,
I know it's summer league, but he had a play
against the Pelicans in Summer League this year. It was
like a euro step from half court, like like it
will not not in a transition opportunity. It was like
into the game, I'm dribbling it out near half court.
It was Ja Moran esque where it's like he picks
up his dribble to three point line and then euros
towards the bucket for just a layup and you're like,
who can do that? And not to be rhetorical, it's like, okay, uh,
Yannis can uh, Lebron can uh. It was it's like
this list of guys and you're like, and by the way,
that guy is nineteen. He's still younger than everyone else's
playing in summer league, and so I think just the
way he can score at every level. A lot of
it was garbage time for the NBA season, like he
scored forty four points in the last game of the
regular season. But he did have some big games back
when it sort of mattered. He had the big game
on T and T. He had great games against the
Warriors and Knicks, and it's like he was coming off
the bench and all of a sudden, there's this eighteen
year old who could score twenty points, who also has
the athleticism in the size we are like, whoa, that's
prototypical And so all of that I think is the
most exciting stuff about gg right now.
Speaker 1: And do you think what he does in watching him?
I would believe that it does. The way he scores
like translates to play finishing to where I don't worry about, well,
how does Gig Jackson fit if you're gonna play him
with John Moran and Desmond Ban and Jared Jackson Junior
a ton of minutes, that just seems like something where
even his full floor motor or willingness to like kind
of move away from the ball, it feels like he
should fit into their full strength And I hate that
I have to use his caveat with this team every
single time, but the full strength offense, it feels like
he will be a pretty clean fit.
Speaker 2: For I think. So the concern is does he shoot
too much? Like the concern is can he seamously fit
into a lower usage roll? That's gonna be I think
one of the big challenges for him, Like they're gonna
ask him to like Hey, buddy, we need you to
defend and rebound. And that was the challenge they actually
gave him at Summer League this year. They're like, we
know you can score, we want you to defend and rebound.
He did a great job rebounding in Summer League. He
got a lot of offensive rebounds. It's one of those
things where when you watch Summer League, you're like, oh,
that guy's getting a lot of offensive rebounds because he's
just physically better and different and bigger than everyone else.
And fair criticism, but also awesome criticism for a nineteen
year old who's still younger than everybody in the Summer League.
We're like, yeah, gg Jackson looks physically different than everyone
else out there. That's why he's averaging three offensive rebounds
per game in Summer League. So I think he will
accept the challenge. There were some clips of him on
social media of just standing in the corner, like what
she's supposed to do. He's standing in the corner facing
and some I was like, yeah, Gigi has to do this.
You know, they're asking him to go stand in the
corner and and like I believe he responded to it
with something like just play a role, play my role,
and that's if he plays his role. Yes, I do
think the fit is seamless. It's another guy that the
defense has to worry about that has to honor his shot,
whether they or not the shot is real. I think
that's a question. His range is outrageous, but also he
sometimes takes outrageous in a bad way shots where you're like,
you shot that six feet behind the line. I don't
know if that was your shot, sir, Like you know
that that's that's going to be the whole thing for
this whole year where it's like, guys, we have Zach
Edy posting up whoever it is you know inside like
and also by the way, Ja Morant and Desmond Bay
are on your team. So it's a good problem to
have now for the Grizzlies where you have guys who
can score and and getting them to fit in with
the better players.
Speaker 1: Would set out to you the most about Vince Williams
and why is it the flamboyants on his wrist whenever
he throws a pass. I think it's my favorite. I
every time I watch him throw a pass, it's like exaggerated,
and I worry about his wrists and shoulders do we
have Do.
Speaker 2: We have the tracking data that measures the speed of
passes in the NBA?
Speaker 1: Do?
Speaker 2: I not even joking. I texted people early on when
Vince Williams Junior started playing for the Grizzlies, when he
finally got into rotation, I was like, his passes moved faster, right,
like he whips those balls across the court. Like, I'm
not even joking. I think Vince Williams Junior's passes moved
faster than most players. What stands out the most, He's awesome, Dan,
He's incredible. I don't know if everybody out there has
watched Vince Williams Junior play. He is the best glue guy.
I mean maybe best, maybe like Drew Holliday is the
best glue guy. But he is as far as a unspectacular,
under the radar, unknown guy. He's so good at defense.
He had a stretch where it was like successive games
I'm forgetting because it's August in the season a song ago.
He had successive games where like he guarded Kevin Durant.
He was the team's primary defender on Kevin Durant, and
he did a passable job. And then he's guarding Kyrie Irving,
and Kyrie Irving got a technical foul. He got so
frustrated he shoved him and then like he's guarded. I
can't remember the next one. He's like, he's like guarding Lebron.
He's having he guarded Steph Curry. There's a famous clip
from last year. Actually the NBA Social team put it
out earlier this week where it was like Handles Weekend
the NBA and Steph Curry did this spectacular thing where
he basically carried Vince Williams Junior all around the court
before making a layup, and it's like a big spectacular
Steph Curry play. Vince Williams Junior's defense on this play
is so amazing, Like, yeah, STEP's gonna beat you sometimes.
But also in that clip, there's a photo of Vince
Williams Junior and he's just grinning ear to ear The
man might be a little bit off kilter. He's a
he's a tiny bit nuts and like he loves playing defense.
He loves guarding the other guy. Also, so you include that,
you're like, WHOA, this guy's an elite primary defender. This
might this guy might be a better one on one
defender on the perimeter than Marcus Smart. This guy might
be our best perimeter defender. And then you add into that,
this guy might be our best rebounder period, which is.
Speaker 1: Wild six four and just I even so, I looked
because you're a stats I looked this up for you.
Of anyone who is six four or shorter and who
have ever matched his block and steel rates in a
single season. Yeah, nobody has ever had as high of
a defensive rebounding percentage as him.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about. It was this thing where
it's like you watch him and I would say, for
a while there, I was like, you know, I get
into the stats and I'm talking about the Grizzlies, and
for a while there, we're bad at rebounding. It starts
with Jaren but like Dylan Brooks was a horrible rebounder,
Desnen Bain is not a naturally good rebounder. John Morant
gets rebounds, but they're all the uncontested, just you know,
useless rebounds. None of these guys have motors. And I
remember being a thing where I'm like, guys, I think
Luke Canard per possession might be like our third best rebounder.
You know or something. But then Vince showed up, and
there's no caveats. It's no longer like for guys six
four or smaller or based on the number of minutes.
It was just no, he's our best rebounder. And there
was a while there where he was leading the team
in rebounds per game where it was like he's average
like six per game. So all right, he's the best
preimier defender on the team. He's the best rebounder on
the team. He's he throws these fast passes. He's a
useful playmaker, like he can actually pass, and he's and
like getting that a guy who just passes, rebounds and defends.
And oh, by the way, he hit thirty seven percent
of his threes last year. And it's like this is
made in a lab. If you need to have your
fifth starter, the guy to fit alongside two all stars
and a near all star shooter in Desmond Vane, Vince
Williams Jr. Is the guy. So I am over the
moon with Vince Williams Jr. He also specifically fits the
genre of player I enjoyed the most, just like the
hustle guy, the guy yeah like fully turned up but
also getting steels, getting blocks. He also draws offensive fouls.
He is a listen. I don't always love this. I
think a lot of themba's offensive foul rules are wrong,
but hey, it's a it's a fallen world we live in, Dan,
and he's just playing by the rules as written. There
was a game I think it was against the Pistons.
He drew four away from the play offensive fouls not charges,
just like hey, I got Kate cunning him to run
into me and fell over, and hey, maybe it's the
Maybe it's a dark art that let Marcus smart developed
in him. But like he picks up also these just
like those are turnovers. He forces offensive fouls all the time.
Like you better set the best most stationary screen around
Vince Williams Junior, or he's gonna get it out. He's
gonna be a foul called on you because he's gonna fall over,
he's gonna slip, he's gonna throw his legs out. So yeah,
I love Vince Williams Junior. I think he's incredible. And
as we record on August thirtieth, Dan, it's his birthday,
Happy birthday, Happy birthday. Vince just turned twenty four.
Speaker 1: Oh so he's he's like ten years older than Gigi
Jackson though, So that's right, that's right. What is like,
I guess the area of development you'll be monitoring. I
feel like the low hanging fruit is probably the turnovers,
which a lot of those happened where he didn't run
in pure volume a ton of pick and rolls last year,
but he did turn the pall over on thirty percent
of his pick and rolls. And when you watch it's
kind of like you mentioned, the like the the hustle,
that motor, it almost betrays him in those situations where
things might need to slow down, and so to that
feels like a low hanging fruit area. But I'm also
and I'm talking myself out of my own suggestion, is well,
doesn't that matter as much when like John Desmond Bane
and if Marcus Martin all those guys are healthy, how
much playmaking or the Grizzlies going to need to rely
on him for?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the weakest part of his game is the turnovers,
and I do think a lot of it was him
being asked to do too much, Like his handle is
not there for a guy who maybe had the ball's
hands that much. Last year. There were several, you know,
like dribble off his foot situations. Also like the weakness
in his game and the reason he's not an All
star of a lot of stuff I was raving about,
like his finishing not great, finishing off the dribble not great.
His shooting, he can't create his own shot. That's why
he is going to be his whole career a lower
usage guy. He's going to be a glue guy his
whole career. Maybe the style of like a James Posey,
you know, like you hope maybe if the shooting keeps improving,
he will rise to that level. But I'm less worried
about the turn when he gets alongside a fully healthy team.
But that is something I think he does need to
work on. Continue working on the handle, continue working on
the shooting.
Speaker 1: Because people like the rank things though, I need your rank.
Who you're higher on long term? Gig Jackson or Vince Williams.
I think Vince Williams better right now, but like Gigi
Jackson has that youth appeal. He's only fourteen.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you put it, who are you higher on?
A safer bet for me is Vince because like if
if the playoffs started now, this week. I think Vince
Williams Junior can give useful minutes basically to every team
in the NBA in the playoffs. I think he's a
postseason player. I think he's that good. I think his
defense plus rebounding, plus hustle plus passing means he can
play in a playoff rotation anywhere. Maybe not like on
the Celtics or something if but like, I don't know,
he'd be the eighth best guy in the Celtics. I'm
pretty sure like he would. He's that good in my mind,
maybe I'm oving my skis on him. He's that good,
But like, who are you higher on? G has the
higher ceiling because the NBA is about scoring and with
his size, athleticism, the range he has on his jump shot,
his ability to score, like those things are all tantalizing.
Vince Williams Junior is never going to be an All
Star and I don't think he has the potential to
be an All Star. Gigi does have the potential to
one day be an All Star. But to answer your question,
I'll take Vince. Maybe I'm more of a A bird
in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.
I'm like, this is here and now, it's here and
real right now, I'll take it. But like Gigi's upside,
it is so tantalizing. It's one of the reasons I
don't think either of those guys are like, you know,
they're not movable. You're not going to trade either one
of those guys. The team is so high on both of.
Speaker 1: Them they don't to bring anyone back of consequence anyway.
So that's exactly so this is I know it could
be ascribed to just the injuries, the availability, but the
Grizzlies went from sixth in average offensive possession time in
twenty two to twenty three to twenty third last year.
Was there anything other than just the constant revolving door
of lineups in there that contributed to that? And does
this team even you know, we've talked about rebounding where
we think Vince Williams is still their second best rebounder, Like,
do they have you know, enough of that rebounding juice
to end possessions and then continue to get out in
transition or even hit the offensive glass hard enough to
get back to some of their roots you say average
possession time, Yeah, so it's like it's not factoring in
just transition like it'll impredictable has them, and I prefer it.
I mean, I like transition frequency, but I prefer face
because pace, to me, is too dependent on the other team.
And so if you're looking at the average offensive possession time,
you can just see who in general is faster, like
even after mates like Indie will just run after makes anyway,
and that that they'll see that a little bit better.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this, I'll be honest with the
listener of stat I've ever followed.
Speaker 1: I do that matters, though, Keith.
Speaker 2: I mean, I like time of possession in a football game.
Is this back to that time where they were like,
did you know Klay Thompson only dribbled the ball six
times in a sixty one point And I'm like, I
don't know, we tracked? Does that matter? Who can like
six dribbles? It feels low, but maybe not. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're worrying about their half court offense, I
would say, like the speed at which they're operating on
offense does I would.
Speaker 2: Say very quite obviously. The way it translates to me,
it's like this team was good in transition because they
forced a bunch of turnovers, and they had Ja Morant
getting towards the basket immediately with Desmond Bain, who also
was good in transition. With Desmond Bane only playing I
think maybe thirty nine games with no Ja Morant, all
that is easily why they would dribble the ball up
and be like, no one can get a shot, let's
dribble the ball for a few more seconds. So I
don't I don't find myself worried about this st I
just found out about once the team.
Speaker 1: The speed at which the like is the offense gonna
get back to its roots of like being able to
capitalize on those faster paced.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think one hundred percent. I mean
I think that they're you're gonna have Edie getting those rebounds.
You're gonna get it to your ball handlers. They were
one of the first teams that I think fully implemented,
This was like five seasons ago, fully implemented just get
the ball across half court. I don't care who gets
the rebound. You know, like this is not give it
to jog passage to the point guard. They are big
on getting the defensive rebound and just going and pushing
it up. And I think they're gonna get back to
that once they have more talent. I mean they've we
haven't talked about it, but like last year they played
thirty three players. I think they had. They had something
like twenty players score one hundred and fifty points for them,
which seems impossible. Like they had fifty one different starting lineups.
Speaker 1: So I number still whenever I see it, the fifty
one start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fifty one different starting lineups. I don't think it, Matt.
I don't think a lot of those stats matter. And
I think once you get back to be it the
more archaic pace or this new fangled average possession time,
I think that Grizzlies are going to be getting good
looks early in the shot clock a lot of the
time once they get their guys back.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of
the podcast?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure.
Speaker 1: Are there any strengths or just elements of this team
that we haven't discussed that you also just think they're
not receiving enough attention on a national level.
Speaker 2: I think on the national level, the thing we hit
on early on about how the extra reps that Desmond
Band and Jaron Jackson Junior got, as like the number
one like top on the scouting report for the other
team on who they have to stop. I think putting
those two guys alongside John Moran, it's going to be
a handful. And I just think the depth that Grizzlies
have right now, even if they've kind of punted on
the last five minute on their roster, like the depth
is spectacular when you compare to other teams. I feel
like a lot of other teams in the West their
depth has gotten worse. And you think about the Grizzlies
being able to have joh Dez and Jaren and Zach
Edy and Marcus Smart and also have Vince Williams junior,
also have Brandon Clark. We haven't mentioned Luke Canard still
a very useful player, Gig Jackson if he does continue
on this trajectory, this development path, like that is a
really good top nine, even if you do have some
question marks about their size, about maybe the overall fit,
but I think there's enough good veteran players that they
will figure it out. So I feel like the fact
that the Grizzlies, you know, having those two dominant regular
seasons and now basically all the guys are back. You know,
there are questions like is Marcus smart, Vince Williams Junior
and Zach Edy? Is that better than Dylan Brooks, Steven
Adams and Tyas Jones, Like that's kind of the trade
off there. But I think with the development you've seen
from John and Dez and Jaren, this is gonna be
one of the better teams in the West. And I
am a little bit quizzical when they aren't mentioned as so.
Speaker 1: Much aside from the hell factor, What is the biggest
concern you have for this roster?
Speaker 2: I guess I would go back to that fit thing,
just knowing, like like last year, I felt like that
even when the guys were available that we knew were
gonna be available, it seemed like they were less than
the some of their parts. And that was very weird
because the first four seasons under Tiller Jingens, they always
seemed more than the sum of their parts. It was
just like, it doesn't matter who plays that the team
is really really good, and so maybe it was just
an aberration from last year. They were horrible at home
last year, which just felt strange, like I couldn't win
home games. They had some weird just shooting numbers, even
when the team was healthy. And again, if it's twenty games,
maybe the other team made too many threes. Your threes
didn't go in. Maybe the question mark is the shooting.
Speaker 1: Like I know, I was gonna gobble up that low
hanging fruit and just wonder if there was enough shooting
on this Like.
Speaker 2: That is a concern unaddressed by the Luke Cannard sign.
I mean, it's funny. I was a person who kept
being like, I feel like they should move on from
Luke Canard or bring in a guy who's just going
to play more minutes. Like obviously Luke Canard's one of
the best three point shooters in the world, but if
the team's fully healthy, he's gonna play like ten minutes
a game or fifteen minutes a game. Cause you have
I consider Vince Williams Junior regard, you have four better
guards than Luke in Jaw and Dez and Marcus Smart
and Mince Williams Junior. So like, I'm like, you just
need a I feel like you need a three or
a four who could make some threes.
Speaker 1: Now they shot, by the way, that's the downside of
not I know they don't use it to Like would
you have rather had if let's just say the tax
was the hard way. It was the hard line, like
we're not gonna go into this or stay into this.
Would you rather have Luke Canard or like you could
have given that same money, Like he ended up with
what eleven million, That's more than Simoney Fontecio got in Detroit.
It's more than Naji Marshall got from Dallas. And now
maybe those players didn't necessarily want to go there, but like,
those are two players who to me would have fit
what the Grizzlies need. I mean, maybe Naji Marshall's not
super high volume from three, but positionally feels like he
fits more of a like Simoi Fontechio had been perfect
for this for this tea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been. It would have been interesting.
And that's one of the things where you know, I
don't think I finished this thought earlier, as my brain
led me astray. The the dreams coming into the off
season was to get a starting center and then to
get a three slash four who could shoot and score,
because it does seem like maybe Marcus Smart's best role
is coming off the bench. I mean, maybe Ivins Williams
Junior can fully handle being like the small forward. But
like you said, he's six foot four, he's got a
good wing span. But all those guys are smaller, and
like you need guys to guard, if it's Luca or
kd or Jason Tatum or whoever, like it seems like
you need more size. I don't know if small ball
like Zach Edy and four guards might be a thing.
They run a lot, you know that it sounds it
sounds fun on paper, and maybe that's the zag. You know,
four or you know, the rest of the league doing
one thing. Let's let's play small ball and have it
just a big center in there. I don't know, but
it does seem like just getting I mean a guy
I mentioned who seems like totally available. It's just like
Dorian Finney Smith who on a bad team looks kind
of horrible, but on a good team he's just useful.
He's a defender. He makes thirty four percent of his threes,
and that's kind of all I feel like the Grizzlies need.
He didn't have to start even and you mentioned like
the the Naji Marshalls or like you know, whoever, it
is even like a I wanted PJ Washington last years
traded line. The MAVs went out before the.
Speaker 1: Pelicans got into mind wanted them to sign Ervonte Green.
Speaker 2: Another underside, Javonte Green is so old and it's fine,
but like that's you know, those are the kind of
guys where it's like.
Speaker 1: You have just senior old Jackson. You don't learn at
I'm just going to continue to deage him and.
Speaker 2: Maybe and like the the thing, the thing the front
office has done and so for for several years as
a podcaster about the Grizzlies, I go into the offseason
and I'm like, we have the full mid level exception.
Here are the guys we could get, and then we
don't get any of them. And then the next year,
I'm like, all right, we have the full mid level exception.
I really think we're gonna sign one of these guys.
And then and then we signed Derrick Rose and I
was like, oh, well, that's kind of shocking because we
actually had things we needed. I don't I don't think maybe.
I mean, some teams sign the og guy good for
the locker room. How do I judge if it was
good for the locker room in a year you lost
fifty five games? No idea, But this year, we clearly
had room on the roster because like Utah Watson Abi
did to the Grizzlies, this massive solid and retired from
the NBA, he had a player option. We were going
to be up against the tax and it was like,
all right, we got Utah, we don't have any roster spots.
And then it's like he's gonna move to Japan and
leave the NBA and that was like, whoa, we did
us as solid. We have a roster spot we can
work with. Now here's all the guys we can sign.
But this year I was not Charlie Brown going up
to Lucy holding the football. I said, after I named
all those names, just so you know, I probably wasted
my breath. They're not going to sign and like they
didn't sign anyone, and honestly, actually they got me again.
They listened with the football with me. Again. I'm like,
they're really not gonna sign anybody this year and may.
But again the pushback or the thing you can say
the front office has done, like they're using a roster
spot on Jalen Wells. They brought in Cam Spencer to
be the cheap Luke Kenak replacement. Eventually that he's on
a two way. The thing they have done is they've
carried young guys at the end of their roster. I
think it hurt him in the season they lost to
the Lakers in the playoffs, and I don't know what
we say about last year. Maybe didn't hurt him. But
what that has done is it has allowed them to
actually hit on like one out of three or four
of those guys. Like you say, oh, they're still paying
Kennedy Chandler. That's why we had to spend a second
on pick just salary dump Desire Williams and while we
had to stretch mom at Ada quite but they picked
Vince Williams junior at the end of the second round
and now they have been s Williams junior. They picked
Gigi Jackson with the forty fifth pick, and so maybe that's,
you know, maybe this is one way to do it.
You're going to strike out on several Maybe you're not
gonna have the depth you absolutely need if you filled
up the back end of your roster, if you paid
for a Kelly Oubre or a Caleb Martin or a
Jalen Smith or a Buddy Healed or a d Anthony
Melton or a Kyle Anderson. Like, those are the guys
you could have signed. Maybe the bridges were burned with
two of those names, but like you could have signed
guys to come in and help you and to compliment
your squad. I I tend to favor that approach. My
thought was in twenty twenty two, we're closer than we think.
We don't know how long windows stay open. We should
basically be all in for the next few seasons. And
I don't understand restocking the back end of your roster
with young guys who might not help you. But if one,
if like Jalen Wells or Cam Spencer, becomes a useful
NBA player, maybe that extends your title window. That's what
they're banking on. And again that's that's the generous reading
of not spending money. I mean my dream you can
have in my mind. You can have your cake and
eat it too. You could have done lots of these things.
You could have kept Zira Williams salary. You had bird
rights on Luke Canard, you can pay him whatever you want.
You could have picked up his expensive player option. Could
have been way in the tax now instead of sending
the nets Zaire and a second rounder for Dakite, who
we're gonna stretch now. Maybe I can send the nets
Canards X amount of dollars, Zira Williams X amount of
dollars and send them a first round pick and two
you know, seconds or something for Cam Johnson, or less
than that for a Dori and Finny Smith. I could
still I'll have guys I'm developing. I could go into
the tax. Maybe we're gonna stay Withay from the first apron,
but like you could have matched the salaries to go
over into the luxury tax. But I don't know if
they will ever do that. Maybe they will when the
right opportunity presents itself. Maybe they want to see how
good Marcus Smart is this season. Maybe they want to
see how it all works together, and then they'll try
to cobble some salaries together. But one of the problems
is when you're so focused on staying out of the tax,
you know, you lose those matching salaries, You lose those
avenues where you could bring on more money. You know,
if once you lose that salary slot and you're over
the cap, there's nothing really you can do. They do
still have the MLA, they do still have the Steven
Adams traded player exception, they can bring in some money
and go into the tax. Whether or not they will
to improve this team, that's gonna be a big question.
Speaker 1: What does the top ten rotation look like at full
strength for this team?
Speaker 2: I think, I mean definitely presume starters is Jamarant, Desmond Band,
Marcus Smart, Jenreon Jackson Junior, Zach Edy. Maybe Vince Williams
Junior starts, but who cares? That's your And then so
Vince that that's your top six, Brandon Clark, and then
I would say Santi Aldama, Luke Canard, did I do enough?
Let's see, Uh, maybe Gigi's your tenth man. Yeah, so
I guess jesus your tenth man. The one question I
have also, we don't we forget this or we ignore this?
As Grizzlies fans. The Chrismis had like one fully healthy
game last year, one where everyone was here where like
Luke Carnard was available, and they got annihilated. They lost
by like thirty at home to the Kings. That doesn't
matter that the King's good team. Things happened, But in
that game, like Derreck Rose played a lot of minutes
and that was like a, Hey, why is Derreck Rose
playing when fully healthy? Like would we do the depth chart?
I think it makes sense to just have, like your
second unit is Luke, Caernard and Vince. Those guys could
dribble and then Gigi, Santi and Brandon And maybe you
don't play all five of those bench guys at the
same time. Maybe you know the way they do it.
They stagger John Dez, So like Dez will be the
ball handler for the second unit along Luke and Vince.
That's plenty of ball handling, but that is I think
your top ten. Apologies to Jake Larrabias stands and apologies
to Derrick Rose.
Speaker 1: So obviously this will be the some extent matchup dependent.
But what do you think winds up being their most
used crunch time unit.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I mean that that's one of
the fun things. Where does Zach eaty close games? I
don't know. I would guess Brandon Clark is your four
or five, and then I would guess it's Jomrant doesn't
have been Marcus Smart, Brandon Clark and Jena Jackson Jr.
I would guess that's your that's your closing five, And
like I get excited thinking about that. Frankly, I mean,
I not a lot of teams can put five better
guys on the court at the same time. Does Vince
Williams Junior step into that lineup? Sometimes? For Brandon Clark,
you're a little bit small there, but like, I mean,
good luck scoring on that. And maybe Marcus sometimes isn't closing.
I mean it's gonna be.
Speaker 1: They have at It feels like there are just three
you would say, three locks for the crunch time unit,
and then there might be some finagling from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean obviously Jaw, des and Jered are
gonna play when they're when they're available, and then I
would say Marcus, Marcus Smart, Zach Edy, Vince Williams Junior,
and Brandon Clark would be the other four guys you're
picking for the final two spots.
Speaker 1: Is there a funky, weird, offbeat lineup you would like
to see them try?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you gotta give me like I might
even do one without jaw Like Marcus Smart, Jaron Jackson Junior,
and Vince Williams Junior have to play together. That that
has to play together, and give me that with Desmond
Bane and then I'm deciding who my other like maybe
a Brandon Clark, Desmond Bane, Marcus Smart, Vince Wims Junior,
Brandon Clark, Jared Jackson Jr. That's it, get out of town.
That's gonna have it. That's gonna have a seventy five
defensive rating right Therena, it's gonna be. It's gonna be,
it's gonna be unstoppable. They'll score. Now. I think you
got you got des and Jared to score that. No,
that that one, I'm calling it now, cleaning the glass.
That's that's a plus twenty net rating. No problem.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see them throw out like the five
guard lineup. Yeah, Marcus Martin, Vince Williams, just defend up
like they always those two, Desmond Bane, John Moran and
then I mean, I don't consider him a guard, but
we I can't say the wing lineup because the Grizzlies
don't have enough of those. But let's throw Gig Jackson
in there. Forget that w Keith. What's the average offensive
possession time for that unit if they're on important?
Speaker 2: Uh? What is this measured in h seconds? No? Uh?
I mean you said guards. I was thinking Jamaran Luke Canard,
Desmond Bane, Vince Williams Junior, Marcus Smart, Marcus Marcus at
the five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say I would. I think I'd just
rather see g. I know, Luke Canard all right.
Speaker 2: Gg's taller. Yeah, Okay, I could. I mean, they have
so many options they could. They're reminiscent if you did
something like like jaw, Luke and Dez together, Luke Canard,
Desn't Bane together. Those three their their lifetime. I believe
net rating is somewhere in the plus forty five per
unter possessions. That's like that was regular season and playoffs combined.
Those three are a big reason or that number I
think is a big reason whether like we're keeping Luke
Canard no matter what, and so like if those three
play together, then if you have like Marcus Smart at
the four, Jared at the five, that's reminiscent of like
those early nineties Suns teams they had like Kevin Johnston,
like Rex Chapman playing the four, like Kevin Johnson, Rex Chapman,
Steve Nash West person maybe was playing the four. It's
like it's similar to that where I feel like they
have a lot of small ball things they can try
whether or not they score enough, because like whether they
score enough to make up for the fact they've will
have like maybe a one twenty defensive rating. You know
who knows.
Speaker 1: Okay, as we record this on August the thirtieth, they're
over under is at forty seven and a half. Are
you taking the over the under? And where do you
see them stacking up relatives to the rest of the West.
Speaker 2: That's a real good number. I think the West it's
gonna be so hard. I'm I'm gonna probably end up
taking unders for most teams just because I mean unders
normally hit more because they're bet less. Also with thirteen
teams probably pretty good. And then the Jazz, who are
gonna probably win games in November and December. Uh, It's
it's hard, I do think personally it is like as
far as like a power rankings, I'd put the Grizzlies
is like maybe the I think I'm so sick of
saying when healthy, but if healthy, I think they're like
the third or fourth best team in the West. They're
definitely I think in that tier alongside like I have
them trailing the Thunder. I think the Timberwolves are better
until proven otherwise the Nuggets are better until proven otherwise.
But like, I'm not that scared of the Nuggets anymore.
You shouldn't be, but yeah, like I'm scared, I'm scared
of Jokic.
Speaker 1: But like, I think it's fair to say that three
of the four teams between Dallas, Denver, Minnesota and okayse
will probably be better than them. But you just say
that the Grizzlies wouldn't be in the top four. They're
going to be healthy, just goes a bridge. I think
they're firmly in the top six, though I don't use.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like Luca never loses to John Morant, so
that's a problem for us. He's something like ten in
one lifetime against a Jummerant, but his his winning percentage
is much worse against bens Swim Junior. The Yeah, So,
like I they're definitely in my mind, Like I don't
look at any team in the West, like the Mavericks
and the Terminals and the Nuggets, and I'm like, whoa,
they are head and shoulders above us. Maybe I will
once the season starts that I'm like, guys, we're still
giving up like a twenty eight percent offics of rebound rate.
Like I thought we were gonna clean the glass little
bit better. So maybe I'll change my tune once I
see it all together. But I do think, you know,
top six in the West is clearly where they should be.
Whether or not that translates to the wins, I'd probably
take the over. But like, what in fifty games is
gonna be a lot for any team in the West.
And I think there's gonna be this huge clump next
year of like there are nine teams between forty five
and fifty one wins, you know, Like I think that's
what's gonna be. And taking the over on that, it's
like it's kind of a coin flip. So I'm kind
of weaseling out. I'll say over, I think my team's amazing.
I have them a slide over at forty eight wins.
Speaker 1: They lost fifteen pounds of weight body fat with a
gain muscle. Yeah, that's that's the season. Keith. This as
great as always. We were able very quickly just to
tell our listeners where they can find you and all
your work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Grizzlies fans or anybody who wants to know about
the Grizzlies, listen to Grits and Grinds. Go subscribe on YouTube.
Also subscribe to the Fast Break Breakfast podcast where Dave
Defour and I cover the Holy
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Keith, I'll talk to you too,