WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:16.280 This is Veterans' Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 2 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:20.440 this edition is retired US Navy Commander Porter Halliburton, a 3 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:23.239 flight officer who spent seven and a half years in 4 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:27.920 captivity after a forced ejection over North Vietnam. He is 5 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.039 also the author of Reflections on Captivity, which recounts his 6 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.719 experiences as a prisoner of war and those of many others. 7 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:39.880 Commander Haliburton was born in Florida, but spent most of 8 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.079 his youth in Davidson, North Carolina. He told us about 9 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:47.719 his education, his pursuit of military service, and finding a 10 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.039 bride who could have had no idea what their marriage 11 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:53.320 would bring in just a few short years. 12 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.280 I was born in Miami, Florida, but I was raised 13 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:01.399 in Davidson, North Carolina, from the age of two up 14 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:07.480 until I went to Swani Military Academy for last two 15 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.879 years of high school. I came back to Davidson and 16 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:16.760 attended Davidson College and graduated in nineteen sixty three with 17 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:21.560 a degree in English literature. Marty and I had met 18 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:27.239 during college. She went to Queen's College and I went 19 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.280 to Davidson and they just, you know, twenty miles apart, 20 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:36.920 so she still had a semester to go, and we 21 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:42.400 got married in December of nineteen sixty three while I 22 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.079 was in pre flight and she was still in college. 23 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:50.120 And so from there we went to various training bases 24 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:51.359 and so on. 25 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:53.840 A desire to fly F four has led him to 26 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:58.200 pursue a Navy preflight program in Pensacola, and that was 27 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.200 just the beginning of getting prepared to serve in combat 28 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:02.519 as a naval aviator. 29 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.319 My IT tests showed that I had twenty twenty five 30 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:09.719 in one eye, and so they put me into the 31 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:15.719 NFO pipeline Naval Flight Officer pipeline rather than the pilot pipeline. 32 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:18.879 And make a long story short, I passed the AI 33 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.879 test and was slated to go back to pilot training, 34 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:28.240 and I don't know it never never paperwork never got 35 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.479 to the right place. And anyway, I qualified for F 36 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:35.240 four's and so that's what I really wanted to do. Anyway, 37 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:40.560 so I stayed with that, and we wound up in 38 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.240 the rag It Replacement Air Group in the VF one 39 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:48.919 oh one in Key West, Florida. And when I finished, 40 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:52.919 when I finished that training, I was going to join 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.439 my first squadron, which was VF eighty four in Oceana, Virginia, 42 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.439 and Harty was eight months pregnant at the time, and 43 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.639 so I moved her up to Miami where she had 44 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:11.680 some family, and I went on to join the squadron. 45 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.199 But then she called as I stopped off in Davidson 46 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.719 to see my folks, she said, I think I'm gonna 47 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:22.199 have this baby. So I got emergency Lee went back 48 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:26.719 to Miami and I saw my daughter for five days, 49 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.039 and then I had to go on and until I 50 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.000 joined the squadron. And then that was in April of 51 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:35.719 nineteen sixty five. 52 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.639 A month later, as a brand new dad, Porter Halliburton 53 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:44.039 deployed to Vietnam. He wouldn't return home for years. 54 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:51.759 In May, we deployed aboard the USS Independence for Vietnam. 55 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:57.759 The Independence was the first East Coast carrier to go 56 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.520 to the West coast operations in the South China Sea. 57 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.520 And of course the F four and what we've been 58 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:12.319 trained to do was air to air defense, you know, 59 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.960 we had air to air missiles and so on, and 60 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:18.079 yet in Vietnam we were going to be doing lots 61 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.680 of other things as well, and so we we sort 62 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:25.240 of did some training for that in preparation for that, 63 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:29.160 but it was pretty cursory and it took a month 64 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:35.480 to get to Vietnam, and we began began operations in 65 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.839 what was called Dixie Station, which was off of South Vietnam, 66 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.480 and we flew missions for a week or so under 67 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:49.120 the control of Air Force Facts forward air controllers that 68 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.720 were designating targets in South Vietnam, and so we we 69 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.680 worked with that and kind of a warm up to 70 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:02.240 go up to Yankee Station and began operations and rolling 71 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:08.519 thunder against North Vietnam. Our operational period there was divided 72 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.399 into three operational periods of forty. 73 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.360 Five days each and with. 74 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.680 R and R in between or going back to QB 75 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:22.759 Point in the Philippines for maintenance and all of that. 76 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:27.519 Commander Haliburton gradually began experiencing misgivings about the missions he 77 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:31.839 was undertaking in Vietnam. Given the high risk and frustrating 78 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.920 rules of engagement for American pilots. He seriously doubted how 79 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:39.759 effective or worthwhile these missions were in the grand scheme 80 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:40.279 of the war. 81 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:47.079 I had flown over seventy missions, mostly with the pilot 82 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.079 that I thought was the best in the squadron. His 83 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:54.040 name was Lieutenant Commander stan Olmsted, and of course I'm 84 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.720 just I think I made Lieutenant JG. While we were, 85 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:02.399 you know, in operations and so on, I was becoming 86 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:05.480 kind of disillusioned with what we were doing, you know, 87 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:09.680 just missions that didn't seem to be worth anything, and 88 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:14.360 we were risking our lives and our airplane and all 89 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:14.600 of that. 90 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:15.319 And so. 91 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:21.399 We came back from R and R in Japan, and 92 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.279 on our third line period, we were due to be 93 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.079 back in the United States by Christmas, and so we 94 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:32.680 were all looking forward to that. And then finally we 95 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.360 got a notification that we were going to have a 96 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.800 mission that was one of those that McNamara and Johnson controlled. 97 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.600 Wouldn't you wouldn't normally be able to tack these missions 98 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.399 and so on. And it was a bridge from China 99 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:54.600 to Hanoi across the river at Taiwing, and it was 100 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:56.759 a rail and road bridge, and so it was a 101 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:03.040 major communication between China and Vietnam and taking it out 102 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:11.000 really would have disrupted their ability to supply of course, 103 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.240 that was independent of stuff that was coming in by 104 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:18.199 ship to high Fall, and I think we were pretty 105 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:24.759 frustrated with the rules of engagement. I mean, for example, 106 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.800 we still have air to air mission protecting, you know, 107 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.759 tar cap, bar cap, all kinds of things, but the 108 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.480 rules of engagement said you had to have visual identification 109 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:44.240 of the airplane that was not squawking, not identifying itself. Well, 110 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.879 once you do, once you get close enough to visually 111 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.360 identify the airplane. The two kinds of missiles that we 112 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:57.399 had were not very effective, and so it was very frustrating. 113 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.439 Finally, Commander Halliburton was sent on a mission that he 114 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:05.120 felt was worthwhile. However, a strike from an anti aircraft gun, 115 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.680 possibly from a surface to air missile site, sent his 116 00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:12.279 plane down and changed the course of his life forever. 117 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:15.839 But finally we were getting a mission that I thought 118 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:21.160 was worthwhile. And there were about thirty or more airplanes 119 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:25.680 from our squadron, I mean from our air wing that 120 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:32.320 were involved. And we had four aircraft from our Air 121 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:36.000 Force squadron and four from the other Air Force squadron, 122 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:41.200 which is VIA forty one, and we were assigned flak suppression, 123 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.080 meaning we were going to duel it out with the 124 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:51.399 anti aircraft guns that protected the tiwing, and so we 125 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:56.679 were flying pretty low level to avoid sam two missiles 126 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.360 which don't operate well below three thousand feet, but it 127 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.159 put us right in the envelope for an aircraft fire, 128 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:10.399 and so standing I got hit on the way to 129 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:15.840 the target, and we took a hit right in the 130 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:22.000 front cockpit, and Stan was killed, I think immediately, and 131 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:27.360 my oxygen masks blown off my I had piece of 132 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.879 metal sticking out of my hand. There were papers flying around, 133 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.759 holes in the canopy and everything, and so I knew 134 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.159 that I had to make a decision, you know, whether 135 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.679 to get out of the airplane or not. And so 136 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:51.440 I decided I would, And so I ejected and very 137 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:57.919 short riding the parachute and very near village that was 138 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:01.480 shooting at us while we were well, I was coming down. 139 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.679 But there were really two decisions. The first one was 140 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:08.360 whether to eject at all, which he obviously did. The 141 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.200 second decision was how to eject. 142 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.039 I had two choices for ejecting. There are two ways 143 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.879 to do it, and the primary and preferred way is 144 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.159 handles that are up here above the seat that you 145 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:28.200 pulled down and it pulls a canvas shield in front 146 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:32.519 of your face to protect you from the blast of ejection. 147 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:35.679 And all of that well, I reached up there to 148 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:40.120 do that and I felt twisted up metal, and I 149 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.440 pulled it down. I realized it was my kneeboard that 150 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.799 held all of our papers and maps and everything I 151 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:52.159 all twisted up. So that was the indication that we've 152 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.679 been hit pretty hard. And so I threw that down 153 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:00.360 and decided. I didn't know whether this was damaged or what, 154 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:02.720 but I made a quick decision to use the other. 155 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.960 And there's a d ring between your legs here, and 156 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.039 you just pull up on it and bang, there you go. 157 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.120 That's retired to US Navy Commander Porter Halliburton. In Just 158 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:18.360 a Moment, Halliburton describes trying to avoid capture in North Vietnam, 159 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.639 being captured and what happened next. I'm Greg Corumbus. This 160 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.039 is Veterans Chronicles. 161 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.639 Sixty Seconds of Service. 162 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.919 This sixty Seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile. 163 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.080 T Mobile offers exclusive discounts for a veteran and military 164 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.600 families and are proud supporters of the National Defense Network. 165 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.679 Visit t mobile dot com slash military to learn more 166 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.240 about how they support our military community. Maurice Wilson spent 167 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.440 twenty six years in the Navy but now works with 168 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:52.120 Onward Ops, a nonprofit helping unify veterans organizations nationwide. Wilson 169 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.600 is a regional community Integration coordinator, which connects veterans with 170 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:57.840 a volunteer who checks in every week to make sure 171 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.600 they have access to resources and two of them they 172 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.360 are not alone. He said, I have a sailor who 173 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.480 got married and his wife got out and she didn't 174 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:08.840 have this. She didn't know where to go. Peter Lanham 175 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:11.559 was her battle buddy with Onward off San Diego and 176 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.360 helped her navigate her transition to civilian life. Today's sixty 177 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.519 Seconds of Service is brought to you by Prevagen. Prevagen 178 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.879 is the number one pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You 179 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.320 can find Prevagen in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. 180 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:29.120 This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 181 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:33.639 this edition is retired US Navy Commander Porter Halliburton. Just 182 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.480 a moment ago, Haliburton told the story of his plane 183 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:41.919 being shot down, making the decision to eject and safely 184 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.440 parachuting to the ground. But he wouldn't be safe for long. 185 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.720 Just like every other downed to American aviator, his first 186 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:51.799 choice was to avoid capture. He landed near the village 187 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.240 over which his plane had been shot down, and from 188 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.440 there began his fight to survive, and he could see 189 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.320 his odds of avoiding capture dwindling. By the moment. 190 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:02.960 I knew there was a there was a village. There 191 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:06.840 were people shooting at us, at me, uh and uh. 192 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:12.840 When I landed, I got on my radio and said, 193 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.960 you know that I've been We've been hit, I ejected, 194 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.919 I was on the ground, I was okay all of that. 195 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.679 I got no response from it at all. 196 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:23.200 Uh. 197 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:26.159 And so I began to try to go to the 198 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.879 opposite direction from this village, try to get over this 199 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.600 little hill, because I knew that the that the carrier 200 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.720 had sent a rescue helicopter on a destroyer pretty pretty 201 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.200 far up into Hollong Bay or Gulf of Donkey, and 202 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:47.960 I knew that there was a chance that you know, 203 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.039 that helo might get in, and so I wanted to 204 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.360 get away from the gunfire and so on. 205 00:13:57.159 --> 00:13:59.240 I never made it over the hill. 206 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:04.600 Because I just ran out of water and energyed everything. 207 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.799 I've probably in some kind of shock, and so I 208 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.440 had to stop and rest. And at one of the 209 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.440 funny incidents, there was I looked for the place of 210 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.360 best cover, which is just some kind of bushes. It 211 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:25.759 wasn't much, and so I started for that, and right 212 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.200 in front of me, a big black snake starts going 213 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:33.519 for the same bush, and so I decided, well, I'll 214 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.399 let that guy have that and I'll go somewhere else, 215 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.639 which was not very good cover anyway. And so anyway, 216 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.200 the villagers came and I didn't take them long surround. 217 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.000 They knew pretty much where. 218 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.240 I was and so on. So I was captured and 219 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.639 taken to their village. And as I was as we 220 00:14:55.639 --> 00:15:03.320 were walking back, the airplanes from that we're coming back. Unfortunately, 221 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.080 they had the same track out as they came in, 222 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:12.480 and so a couple more airplanes were shot down. I 223 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:17.960 think three other airplanes were shot down simply because they 224 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.919 came back exactly the same way it went in, and 225 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.720 the gunners are there waiting. I later I heard nothing 226 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.320 on my radio, but I destroyed it right before I 227 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:35.639 was captured, just because I didn't want the North Vietnamese 228 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.480 to have it, because we knew that they used that 229 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:44.039 to try to lure in rescue helicopters and to a trap. 230 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:48.919 And so when I cut that cord to the radio. 231 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.840 That was I knew that was my last bit of. 232 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:04.399 Attachment to the world that I was leaving behind, and 233 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.440 so I had no idea what lay ahead, but I 234 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.440 knew it wouldn't be it wouldn't be good in any 235 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.840 in any sense. But right then I determined that I 236 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.440 was going to do everything I could to survive. And 237 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:25.120 for example, in the little village, they treated me pretty 238 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:30.440 well actually and allowed me to I indicated I was 239 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:31.240 very thirsty. 240 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:36.039 They gave me some water, a little what. 241 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.240 What passed for soup for them, and rice, and I 242 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.240 wasn't at all hungry, but I ate it out of 243 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.799 just determination that I was going to eat everything, and 244 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.080 I didn't want to offend these people, you know, by refusing. 245 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.879 And so I made some decisions right there that that 246 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.600 I kept with me throughout my captivity. 247 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:04.200 The villagers treated Halliburton fairly well. The North Vietnamese army 248 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:05.799 was a different story. 249 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.200 I was there in that village for probably several hours, 250 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.680 and again they I don't think they'd ever seen a Caucasian. 251 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:20.160 Maybe we hadn't bombed up in that area much at all, 252 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:25.599 and so they were just they were curious about all 253 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:26.640 this equipment. 254 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:27.880 I had everything. 255 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.279 Matter of fact, I was very afraid that they were 256 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.400 going to fool around with my seat pan, which has 257 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.480 a life raft in it, and I thought they were 258 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.799 you know, if they actuate that in this little room 259 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.759 where we were, the life raft is going to you know, 260 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.279 explode and they're going to feel like, you know, this 261 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.920 was some kind of a booby trap or something. And 262 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.039 so I was really trying to keep and then they 263 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.680 had my gun, my thirty eight, and I was fully 264 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.319 with it and went off. You know, right, he didn't 265 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.319 kill anybody, had it pointed up. But so anyway, they 266 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.759 were very curious. And then after a couple of hours 267 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.200 a jeep a ride with some military or I don't 268 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.880 know where they were, regular military, I think they were, 269 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.799 and I was, you know, handcuffed and blindfolded, and we 270 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.640 went off and it took a couple of days to 271 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.200 get the Hanoi. Even though it was only forty miles. 272 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:35.759 The road was just absolutely terrible. I mean sometimes you 273 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.039 would just go in one or two miles an hour 274 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:43.720 trying not to get and of course I'm handcuffed and blindfolded, 275 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.920 and it was a pretty rough trip. And we stopped 276 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:55.799 at a village, and that's where my first interrogations began. 277 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:03.160 And the interrogator who was civilian, I think, but he 278 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.559 didn't speak English, but he had a phrase book, you know, 279 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.680 and so he could write out questions and push the 280 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.200 paper over to me with a pencil and want me 281 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:17.839 to write the answers, and of course I pushed the 282 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.960 paper back, and anyway, that became a very tense situation 283 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.880 because that happened back and forth several times. I wound 284 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:31.440 up with a guard with AK forty seven next to 285 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:36.480 my temple, and I thought, well, okay, that's that's that's 286 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.799 the end of this. This is how it's going to end. 287 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:43.000 So but they didn't want to kill me, and so 288 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:48.119 they got him away anyway, and then we spent the 289 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.519 night a couple of nights in some kind of an 290 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.359 army army camp, army base or something. And then I 291 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.000 wound up arriving in the morning at the Hanoi Hill. 292 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:07.440 I was by this time my thirst was just overwhelming. 293 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.119 I just was so thirsty. And they set me down 294 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.240 in this hallway and there was a spicket there, and 295 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.920 I just turned that spicket on and drank, not really 296 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:24.519 even thinking about the fact that you don't do that. 297 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:27.640 You don't drink this water. It has to be boiled. 298 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:30.680 But I never got sick from it, so I was 299 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.680 very lucky. But this began. Then I moved into Heartbreak Hotel, 300 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:41.920 where there were six other guys there, all of us 301 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:48.359 having been shot down either on the seventeenth or the sixteenth, all. 302 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:49.599 From our ship. 303 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:57.240 We had four POWs from our ship, and then two 304 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.759 that had been photo reki on five c's to take 305 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.119 pictures before all of this operated. Of course, they got 306 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:13.119 shot down, and what they missed was another SAM site 307 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:16.519 that we did not know about. And I'm pretty sure 308 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:21.319 that the anti aircraft fire that got us was part 309 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:27.640 of that SAM site. So I'm told that the next 310 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:32.400 day of the day after that, a strike specifically went 311 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.880 in to wipe out this SAM site. 312 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.039 That's retired to US Navy Commander Porter Halliburton. When we 313 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.799 come back, we'll learn how Halliburton's rigorous training for what 314 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.119 to do if captured as a prisoner of war helped 315 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.359 him out in some circumstances and made his life much 316 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.319 worse and unnecessarily so in other circumstances. He also explains 317 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.640 how his refusal to cooperate with his interrogators led to 318 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.359 him having worse and worse living conditions over time, but 319 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.720 he also tells us the amazing story of how the 320 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.559 North Vietnamese effort to put him in the worst possible 321 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:12.960 situation ended up being one of the best. I'm Greg Corumbus, 322 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:18.799 and this is Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm 323 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.799 Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is retired to 324 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.640 US Navy Commander Porter Halliburton. Halliburton and other American service 325 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.359 members had been taught very clearly what they could and 326 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.880 could not divulge to their enemy captors, and Halliburton abided 327 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.440 by that carefully, but he says his life would have 328 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.440 been easier if he and others could have mentioned other 329 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.039 information that was of no value to the North Vietnamese. 330 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.000 The strict policy complicated his time in the camp and 331 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.000 also kept his loving wife and family in the dark 332 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:52.400 about his true situation. 333 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.920 I had been offered opportunity to write a letter home. 334 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.000 I said yes. I knew that we were guaranteed that 335 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.240 by the Geneva Conventions, and I said yes, I'd like 336 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:06.759 to write a letter home. And they want to know 337 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:10.960 the address where I would send it, I'd take it. 338 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:15.119 I didn't wear a wedding ring, no identification other. 339 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:16.359 Than you know, my. 340 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.759 My ID card and dog tags and so on. And 341 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.759 they wanted to know the address that I would send 342 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.720 the letter, and I said, I'll just send it to 343 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:35.319 the US. That wasn't allowed. So I passed up the 344 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.799 opportunity to write. And that's one of the regrets that 345 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:46.000 I have, because this training that we had in Seer 346 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:52.559 School was really black and white. It was just you know, name, rank, service, summer, 347 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.039 date of birth, nothing else. You're willing to die, give 348 00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:02.359 your life before anything else. In Seer School, I had 349 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.000 been undergoing interrogation, you know, by this guy that was 350 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.079 wearing a uniform that looked like a Soviet uniform and 351 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:15.880 yet you know he's supposed to be Korean. And it 352 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:22.480 was crazy. And they said, okay, here's an academic situation. 353 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.839 You were lying on a table here and you have 354 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:32.480 a bubbling chest wound. You need an immediate blood transfusion. 355 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.799 What's your blood type? And they said, oh, start the 356 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:38.759 program again. 357 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:39.799 We're alive. 358 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.039 What's your blood type? I said, APOSTI quick. 359 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.279 As I could. It's on my dog tags. 360 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.640 It's you know, it's on my ID card, but I 361 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:54.279 wanted them to know that because I would die without 362 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:58.640 a blood So I was criticized for that. It was 363 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:04.000 not name, ranks, date of birth, it was blood type. 364 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.559 So that was the error of our training in the 365 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:10.599 in the code of conduct, It's not It took it 366 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:16.079 away from any kind of leadership decisions, uh, analysis of 367 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:23.160 what your situation is, Uh, how you are going to 368 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:29.559 survive in captivity without communication with your captors over particularly 369 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.640 over a long period of time. And so the first 370 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.680 until we kind of figured all this out, it was 371 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.720 very rough time because trying to stick to the name 372 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:44.119 right and service number, date of birth was very difficult. 373 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:49.920 You know, ours kneel on your knees, or or in 374 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:51.759 leg irons, or or. 375 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:54.160 Being beaten or threatened and all of this. 376 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.000 Commander Halliburton's refusal to answer questions got him moved to 377 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:02.119 worse and worse locations until he eventually had to complete 378 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:05.440 a stint in solitary. But it was just when he 379 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.640 reached his darkest moment that the North Vietnamese made a 380 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:14.000 critical error and ended up revitalizing Haliburton and improving his outlook. 381 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.480 So finally I was given a choice, and they said, 382 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:23.240 if you continue to refuse to talk to us, we're 383 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.440 going to move you to a worse place. Well, my god, 384 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:31.160 I was in this little cell in Heartbreak, which is 385 00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:35.079 just two concrete bunks with built in leg irons and 386 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.119 a bucket, and not a whole hell of a lot 387 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:42.039 more than that. I couldn't imagine a worse place. On 388 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.119 the other hand, if you talk to us, we'll move 389 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.400 you to a better place, a much better place. You 390 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:51.279 be with your friends, you get better food, you'll play games, 391 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:56.480 write letters. It would be wonderful, you know. And of 392 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.240 course I wasn't going to do that. And so I refuse, used, 393 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.640 and moved to a worst place. And so long story short, 394 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:09.200 I moved to three more worst places. Each one was 395 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:13.880 worse or bad in its own way, not exactly like 396 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:20.240 the little cell in Heartbreak, And so I was I 397 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:24.319 wound up in what I think was the worst place 398 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:29.599 I had. It was a storage shed out by the 399 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.240 back wall of this prison that we call the zoo. 400 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:37.079 I wasn't in the ann or Hilton anymore. And it 401 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.279