WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.600 Lucky Land casino, asking people what's the weirdest place you've 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:04.320 gotten lucky? 3 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:07.400 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in 4 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.439 my dentist's office more than once. 5 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:11.119 Actually do I have to say? 6 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.519 Yes? 7 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:11.839 You do? 8 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:14.519 In the car before my kid's pta meeting? 9 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:15.080 Really? 10 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:15.519 Yes? 11 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:16.359 Excuse me? 12 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:18.160 What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 13 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:19.359 I never win? 14 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:20.879 And tell well, there you have it. 15 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:23.760 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landsloughts dot 16 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.399 com play for free right now? 17 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:28.199 Are you feeling lucky? Nope're necessary void rend my long 18 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:30.399 eighteen plus terms and conditions of plus you wants every deals. 19 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.039 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 20 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.200 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 21 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:51.840 written about them, Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every week, 22 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.799 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 23 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.840 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 24 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.320 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 25 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:12.439 Good Evening. 26 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.239 Due to Sullivan's extensive writing about Ted Bundy, which has 27 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.200 produced six books, He's become a sort of magnet over 28 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.560 the years, drying out many people who are part of 29 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:24.840 the bundy story, but otherwise kept a low profile over 30 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:28.560 the decades, and these first person contacts continue to this day. 31 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:30.879 As such, this is the first book in a new 32 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.280 series of books whose aim is to bring new revelations 33 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.159 to the public about Bundy, the victims, the murders, and 34 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.799 the almost murders that failed Bundy for one reason or another. 35 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:46.040 This first offering, Ted Bundy the Yearly Journal, Volume one 36 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.760 contains a great deal of never before published information from 37 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.120 a number of women who barely escaped his grasp. It 38 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.439 also reveals Bundy's geographic hunting pattern after his arrival in 39 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:01.760 Salt Lake City, Utah, in September nineteenth four, a surprising 40 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:05.359 discovery the author never expected to make, but did, and 41 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.520 it all came about through the valid testimonies of the 42 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:11.800 women who encountered him during this period. The book also 43 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.960 delves into what the author believes is perhaps an accurate, 44 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:18.919 albeit conservative estimate of how many women or young girls 45 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:22.400 Bundy approached but failed to abduct during his years of murder. 46 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.560 Each new volume will focus on particular aspects of the 47 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.759 case where further investigation is warranted there are still unknowns 48 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.120 out there, and as the author has experienced, where unknowns exist, 49 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.120 the possibility of discovery awaits. The book that we're featuring 50 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.319 this evening is Ted Bundy The Yearly Journal, with my 51 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:45.080 special guest journalist and author, Kevin M. Sullivan. Welcome back 52 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.560 to the program and thank you very much for this interview. 53 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.800 Kevin M. Sullivan. Well, thank you, Dan. We always have 54 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:54.039 a good time when we are together on your show, 55 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.039 and the same will be today with this seventh book 56 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.360 or the first book in a new series on Teddy. 57 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:01.599 Lots of new info. 58 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:06.520 There, absolutely, this is highly anticipated. As usual, everyone can't 59 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.520 get enough of information about Ted Bundy because there's so 60 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.479 much more, as you say, so much more to uncover, 61 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.159 as you are a testament with this, as you say, 62 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.639 seventh book about Bundy. Now, let's talk about right away. 63 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.039 In the very beginning, you talk about that you were 64 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.919 fortunate enough with your very first book. Let's talk about 65 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:27.000 how this seventh book came about. By talking about the 66 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.479 first book, the Bundy Murders, the comprehensive history, and you 67 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:32.919 say that you were happy or you were fortunate enough 68 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:35.960 to work with many of the people involved in the case, 69 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.319 including the top investigators. Jerry Thompson from Salt Lake City 70 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:45.240 Utah Michael J. Fisher, the Colorado investigator Russ Renault and 71 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:50.280 Randy Everett, Idaho investigators, Robert D. Keppel, the Washington State 72 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:54.919 investigators and I reveal Bountiful, Utah detective who worked to 73 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.400 Carol deranch case and Don Patchen, the first detective for 74 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:02.599 the Tellassee Police Department in the Florida Kyomega murders. And 75 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.840 Bill Hagmeyer, the retired FB agent from the BSU unit 76 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.840 who became very close to Bundy during the last years 77 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:13.560 and spent as many as two hundred hours interviewing Bundy 78 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.920 before his execution. It would be from these sources and 79 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.720 in depth interviews that followed that new and never before 80 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.000 published information surface about several of the murders, along with 81 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.920 new general information about the case. From that decision, Sprang 82 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:31.160 five additional companion volumes tell us about the five companion 83 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:35.240 volumes following the Bundy murders and wende Evers. 84 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:39.199 Yeah, sure, Well, you know, I considered my work on 85 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:41.879 Bundy would be one and done with the Bundy murders 86 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.399 a comprehensive history. I just I mean, that's the full biography. 87 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.360 That was the full treatment of the murders. It was 88 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:50.959 a long book to write. It was two and a 89 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.759 half years, dealing with a lot of sources from a 90 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.600 lot of different states, and thank god, I was able 91 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:00.560 to come up with a lot of new and that 92 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.040 had never been published before in any of the other books. 93 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:10.160 And several factors of that information was new informations about 94 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:15.040 the murders that were verifiable and told me about the detectives. 95 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:18.120 So I was, you know, it was a great It 96 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.759 turned out to be a great decision for me to 97 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:24.639 delve into Bundy and write that book. But that was 98 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.040 It came out in two thousand and nine and I 99 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:31.360 was done with Bundy except for you know, doing podcasts 100 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:34.240 or whatever, or you know, maybe writing an article or 101 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:36.279 a blog. But I didn't really want to write another 102 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.879 book about Bundy. But in twenty fifteen, one of my 103 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.959 close contacts with Bundy had passed away, and that was 104 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.839 the Rain Fargo. I never got to interview Lorraine for 105 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:49.360 The Bundy Murders, but we became friends afterwards, which she 106 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.720 contacted me, and I write about Lorraine in The Bundy Murders. 107 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:54.600 And in fact it was in that book that I 108 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.319 don't like to I don't like to speculate about things. 109 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:59.439 But I had a couple of things about Bundy. In 110 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:01.959 the night that he abducted Kathy Parks, there was a 111 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.839 couple of things that I speculated about that might have happened. 112 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:07.800 And when I talked to the Rain, because she contacted 113 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.439 me a year after my book The Bundy Murders were published, 114 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.160 she was able to confirm that. But any wait, but 115 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.680 she passed away. I hated to see her go and 116 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.600 she but she was gone. And another of my contact, 117 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:20.920 I can say it at the time, it was Jerry Thompson. 118 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.879 He had been entering into a state of dementia for 119 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.360 a while. And you know, when I talked to Jerry, 120 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.040 I could see that, and I said, I got to 121 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:30.839 thinking about it, and I thought, well, you know, if 122 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:33.600 I'm ever going to write a companion volume that really 123 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:35.759 I thought it would be the Companion Voume and then 124 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.279 that would be done. I said, well, maybe I should 125 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:40.319 do it now. And so I went out west. I 126 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.959 retraced my steps, I went to some new places that 127 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.519 I couldn't get to when I was researching the Bundy Murders, 128 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.639 and lo and behold, I was finding out a lot 129 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:52.279 of new information about the case that sure did add 130 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:56.600 to my previous book, and it kind of like expanded it. 131 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.000 And that's what that's what these volumes will do. And 132 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.720 so anyway, that book came out in twenty sixteen, called 133 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.199 The Trail of Ted Bundy. Well by this time a 134 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.000 lot of people already knew me from the Bundy March. 135 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.759 That book has been a good, steady seller ever since 136 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:11.920 it came out. And then when I'm on a documentary 137 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.519 or something that the sales will really shoot up and 138 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:16.240 then they'll stay that way for a while to go 139 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:17.839 back down. But it's always been a good seller. So 140 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:20.720 I know people were getting my book and reading it. 141 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.560 So that along with podcasts I would do, along with 142 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.759 television interviews I would do. That was I became kind 143 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.079 of like a magnet for people who carried these Bundy 144 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:34.519 stories but had never really talked about it. It was the 145 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.639 same thing with Lorraine. She said she avoided Bundy, she 146 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.120 avoided the book of it. And I was the first 147 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.120 person she ever contacted who had written about Bundy. And 148 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:45.079 she said, it's time for me. I think it can 149 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.720 be like a Catharsist for me to read your book 150 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.680 and to talk about it. And then later one of 151 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.079 Lorraine's friends, and a woman that lived in psych At 152 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.000 Hall with Kathy Parks as well. She contacted me and 153 00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:59.240 she said, I've lived with this for years. I think 154 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:01.680 I want to just I had heard that you write 155 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.439 the book in the right way. You're not sensational in 156 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:07.199 your writing. You talk about the victims a lot, So 157 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.639 I'm going to read your books. She did and it 158 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:11.959 helped her. But the bottom line is a lot of 159 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:16.319 people started contacting me who had experiences with Bundy and 160 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:18.360 are run in with Bundy. Now, there were people that 161 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.680 contacted me that didn't because Bundy wasn't in the geographical 162 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.560 area that they were in at the time, or there 163 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.759 were certain things that they said that were strong red 164 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:30.920 flags to me. But on the ones that I ended 165 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.120 up putting in my companion volumes, they just didn't have 166 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.279 any red flags. And you can sure tell when somebody 167 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.440 is telling the truth and somebody is not. Some of 168 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.879 these people that were trying to foster these fake images 169 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:47.000 of running into Bundy, they'd have these elaborate stories, but 170 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.559 others would have Well, I ran into him. He was 171 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.960 driving this page VW. He seemed like a really nice guy. 172 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.200 He wanted me to go with him in the car. 173 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.679 It was a sunny day, but I just didn't want to. 174 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:01.240 And then I never thought of again until his face 175 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.159 started hitting the news in the papers and I thought, well, wow, wow, 176 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:07.360 that's the guy I ran into. Basically a nothing story, 177 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.799 but what makes it something is that they that they 178 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.480 really ran into him, which over time can tell you 179 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.000 things about Bundy and as well, in particular his hunting 180 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.240 pattern when he got and we'll talk about that a 181 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:20.559 lot more, because a lot of information came out about 182 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.000 his hunting pattern, and it not only showed where Bundy 183 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.399 was that first month he was in hugeahl hunting for women, 184 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.399 but it also puts to death, in my opinion, a 185 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.120 myth that's been around for a long time, a myth 186 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.480 that I didn't even mention the Bundy murders because I 187 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.960 never really believed. But I expanded it a little bit 188 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.799 and talked about it in the Trail Dead Bundy. But anyway, 189 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.559 so all these people kept coming to me, and my files, 190 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:47.000 you know, would get inundated with information here and there, 191 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:49.480 testimonies here and there, and I thought, well, you know, 192 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.000 maybe I should write a third book because I've got 193 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.440 these testimonies and I can go out and get more 194 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.919 testimonies and find people that were that for instance, like 195 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.720 I mentioned in the Buddy Mundy Murders, but were interviewed. 196 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.879 And so the third companion volume came out, and I 197 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.679 swear people laugh about this, and really I did too. 198 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.120 Each time I put a companion volume out, like the 199 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:11.519 third one was The Bundy Secrets. In that book, I 200 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.320 presented a lot of I had these new testimonies, but 201 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:17.200 I also presented certain parts of the record that I 202 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.960 have always found so interesting with commentary and like backstory 203 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.360 from me. So that came out, and every time I 204 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:25.519 put out a companion volume, I thought, well, good, this 205 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:26.919 is going to be this is going to be the 206 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.519 last one, right, And so it just went on and on, 207 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.120 and then of course, you know, the fourth book was 208 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:35.960 Ted Bunny's Murder Mysteries, and again people had contacted me 209 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:40.159 with these really interesting stories. And it's funny because when 210 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.600 I just every time a book is published, I like 211 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:45.159 to take about a week off, don't do anything except 212 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.639 do podcasts or whatever or maybe radio interviews, and I go, 213 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:50.960 I just the book's been released, I watch hots do 214 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:53.000 and I just kind of relax a little bit. And 215 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.519 so as soon as Ted Bundy's Murder Mysteries came out. 216 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.159 I think that was in twenty seventeen. I had a 217 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.519 guide contact me Facebook friend by Michael Ryan His name 218 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.960 is Michael Ryan Hart. And Michael said to me, he said, 219 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.759 and you never thought about doing a an encyclopedia like 220 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.679 the Bundy Murders. And I said, no, I never had. 221 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:12.759 But do you realize that just two days ago they 222 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.720 just released a book of mim on Bundy. And he 223 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:17.240 said yeah. I said, I can't get into that right now. 224 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.919 I said, you know, on the it kind of sounds 225 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.840 kind of good, but at the same time and I 226 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.919 can't even think about that. He said, well, let's put 227 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.200 it on the show for now. He said, I would 228 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.159 do it myself, but I'm doing similar things with pertaining 229 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.600 to the American Civil War and I said, he said, 230 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.480 I just don't have time for it. So after a 231 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.600 couple of days, I contacted my publisher. I ran it 232 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:36.399 past them. I thought, well, they might say, well, we're 233 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.799 really not interested in that, and I say, okay, fine, 234 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:41.120 but they said no, we think it's a great idea. 235 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.759 You should do it. So I did it. And it 236 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.679 was a fun experience because I got to talk to 237 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.559 some newspaper reporters and dig out information on them who 238 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:53.240 were writing about these women that were disappearing. Then it 239 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:55.840 was an interesting book to write, and was it was published, 240 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.000 I thought, wow, it was a great idea. Then I 241 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.240 ended it with the Enigma of Bundy, and I thought, 242 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.200 after writing about I think the exact total number of 243 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.919 pages is one four hundred and eighty five pages. After 244 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.440 that many pages on the case, that really should be it. 245 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.559 I mean, I've really said all I wanted to say. 246 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.080 And then just a couple of weeks after the book 247 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.399 was released, I had three people contact me. They all 248 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.799 three might have been valid, but one lady had gotten 249 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.600 the information from her deceased aunt and she didn't have enough, 250 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:27.440 so I said, well, thank you very much, but there's 251 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.159 not a lot I could do with that. But the 252 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.799 other two women turned out to be real. I did 253 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.600 some checking and we talked and I asked them various questions, 254 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.919 and they turned out to be really, really, really good people, 255 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.559 witnesses that had actually had contact with them. So I 256 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.759 thought to myself, well, you know what am I going 257 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:47.679 to do with these These are really good and they 258 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:49.559 need to get out there in the printed page, so 259 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.240 they'll be there for future researchers because you know, these 260 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.200 people that were involved in the case, or a lot 261 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.600 of them are passing away. Now there's Jerry Thompson's gone, 262 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:01.679 Ron Holmes has gone out, Carlisle's gone on, Lorraine Fargo's gone, 263 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:03.879 and god knows who else is gone that I don't 264 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.919 even know about. So and you know, nobody's getting any younger. 265 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.519 So I thought to myself, you know what, I'll ask 266 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:11.600 my publisher. He may not be on board with this, 267 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:14.759 but maybe I can write a yearly journal of these 268 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.399 new testimonies that come in. And course, since this book's 269 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:21.559 been published, I've already gotten one from a retired circuit 270 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.440 court judge who had a run in with someone who 271 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.440 was likely Bundy, and I'll add that to the next journal. 272 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.519 But I just say to the publisher, I get these stories. 273 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.600 If I think they're valid, I'll write about them, and 274 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.759 then maybe in the journal I'll delve into maybe certain 275 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.679 aspects of the case that need further maybe study. I 276 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.159 can do that. And I said, do you think that's 277 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:44.399 something that you'd like to do. And at the time, 278 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:48.080 I'd already been writing about it, just writing about it. Anyway. 279 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.039 So they said yes, and I said, you know, it's 280 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.360 not going to be as long as a normal book 281 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.320 would be anywhere from two hundred, two hundred and fifty 282 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.120 to three hundred pages. It's not going to be that. 283 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.320 It might be since I'm doing it yearly, maybe one 284 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.200 hundred and fifty page or something like that. And they said, yeah, 285 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.399 I mean, yeah, that's fine. So they came up with 286 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.120 the title Ted Bundy the Yearly Journal. And I think 287 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.480 it's good to look at it like that because it's 288 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.000 something that as long as these tests on is keep 289 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.080 coming in, I'll do it. And if it's every year 290 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:19.080 or every year and a half or whatever, it doesn't matter. 291 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.360 I'll keep putting it out there. And you know, Catherine 292 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.919 Ramslin is a friend of mine, and you know, she 293 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.840 even invited me to speak at a serial killer conference 294 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.320 at the can University. So we've been friends for years. 295 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.720 She's really a great person. She's really great and she's 296 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.000 so knowledgeable. She always blurbs my book. She's always been 297 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:37.720 kind enough to do it, and I just can't thank 298 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.039 her enough. But she said something in the blurbing of 299 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.600 this latest book, and it's absolutely true. And I love 300 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:45.799 how she words it, I didn't come up with anything 301 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.279 like this, but she said, we can still chip away 302 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:51.679 at his secrets, meaning Mundy's secrets. And man, that is 303 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:55.480 exactly what happens with this book. The Yearly Journal is 304 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:57.960 because of this this thing. We'll talk about it more later, 305 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.519 but the very fact that it's just a period out 306 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:04.240 of nowhere, because of the testimony of people, because of 307 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.600 one testimony, Susan Milner's out of the last book, I 308 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.080 wrote the Enigma of Ted Bundy, where kru Bundy was 309 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.399 hunting near his apartment the first month. He had got 310 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:17.519 there late end of the month or possibly very very 311 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:22.320 early October, like maybe the first but likely in late September. 312 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.519 And then the new testimony of Free to Aid and 313 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.559 the other lady who lived in that apartment and Bundy 314 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.519 came to their door, and we'll talk about that more. 315 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.639 Classic Bundy, the language he used. He was looking for 316 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.559 another woman that lived there, But I was never searching 317 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.799 for any of this. And yet because of certain things 318 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.120 starting to fell like a pattern in a puzzle, this 319 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.559 one dropped in, this one dropped in, another one dropped in. 320 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.559 Then that started ruling out this other false story, and 321 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.320 it was just amazing to see this come about. And it's, 322 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.039 like Catherine said, we're chipping away at some of his 323 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.440 secrets that he took. The only Bundy knew that he 324 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.399 was hunting close to his apartment, which if you're going 325 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.840 to be a psychopath and try to abduct women, I 326 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:09.799 would think, because see I'm normal, I would think you 327 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.960 need to go on the other side of Salt Lake 328 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.360 somewhere where if you do something stupid and blow and 329 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.720 somebody sees you, they won't be in your area. But no, no, no, 330 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:23.960 Bundy started hunting in his proverbial backyard. And now that's 331 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.679 been proven, and so has it that he couldn't have 332 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.840 been doing this other thing, which we'll talk about later. 333 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:31.799 But this is what draws me on now, Like right now, 334 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.759 I've just started a major book on the killings that 335 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.480 the Nazis did in World War Two, and it's going 336 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.600 to take me a year, year and a half to write. 337 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.440 But I'll still do the journal and as long as 338 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.480 people still it give me information, as long as I 339 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:48.879 think further aspects of the case need to be written about, 340 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.279 as long as we can still chip away at bundy secrets, 341 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.399 I am committed to doing that so anyway, that kind 342 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:56.519 of brings you up on it. 343 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.840 Yes, thank you. Let's get to as you right, you 344 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.279 talk about Bundy's failed abductions, but you also talk to 345 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.400 people like Ronald Holmes, the criminologists, and you talk about 346 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.759 the information that Bundy gave about himself, of course in 347 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.359 the third person. Yes, that I talk about his need 348 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.119 or a need to repeat the killings again and again. 349 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.920 And the killer serial killer learns the stock, wait and kill, 350 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.079 and when he's killing, he gets better at stocking the 351 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.759 waiting in the killing. And Bundy spoke of the force 352 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.480 it becomes so strong, and he talks about a case 353 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.680 where you mentioned a case where the force wasn't that 354 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.319 strong and he was in his redemption phase, or he 355 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.240 was at least trying not to not to reoffend, not 356 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:46.279 to kill again. But you talk about also the failed abductions, 357 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.839 and many of the people aren't so aware of Bundy's 358 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:53.160 because Bundy didn't want to talk about the teen victims. 359 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.559 But you say that he that he attacked two twelve 360 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.319 year olds, and so you talk about about a half 361 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.440 dozen other ones. Yes, so tell us about also the 362 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.640 idea that for all the women that he may have killed, 363 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.799 which you estimate and others estimate are thirty plus you 364 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.799 say maybe even as many as forty. Yes, But in 365 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.240 order to be able to approach those people successfully and 366 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.519 then abduct them, you say that there have to be 367 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.319 mathematically many, many approaches, and then you show examples of that. 368 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.640 So tell us of examples of that to show the 369 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.079 magnitude of the amount of approaches that Ted would have 370 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.599 to do, yes to be while he was on his hunt. 371 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.200 Well, you know, I've been thinking about this case from 372 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:39.359 the last sixteen years. I mean it's daily, it's every day, 373 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.160 and I've thought of various things that have to add 374 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:46.039 up in Bundy's life, things that he didn't talk about. 375 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:51.079 And everybody wants to know how many people Bundy killed. Well, 376 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:54.599 Bundy told Bill Hagener at the end, he said, I 377 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.359 don't know. You know, in the movie, if you see 378 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.160 No Man of God, Bill's pressing him on that. He said, 379 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.400 Bundy goes that again, and Hagmar goes out that again, 380 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:08.519 and you know that conversation occurred or wouldn't be in there. 381 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:10.839 And he said, I don't know how many, he said, 382 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.440 they just all get confusing. I don't know. So, you know, 383 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.079 some people say, could I say, it's almost got to 384 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.279 be around the low forties, but it could go fifty 385 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.480 or high er. We don't know. Even he doesn't know, 386 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.319 but nobody usually nobody really is has ever that I 387 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.000 know of, pose the question, at least publicly or in print, 388 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:37.039 as to how many close calls were out there. I 389 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.599 know that when Bundy went to Pocatello, Idaho, on May fifth, 390 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.359 he drove up It's a straight shot out of Salt Lake, 391 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:47.240 think about one hundred and eighty miles, and you know, 392 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.039 he got up there. It was cold, And that's something 393 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.279 I found out that I was writing the Bundy Mervs. 394 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:54.519 He never got a co ed that day. He hunted 395 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.160 all day. He got his room at the at the 396 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:59.759 Holiday Inn, which is to the right off of our 397 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.079 field team after you get into the city of Pocatello, 398 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:05.400 and it's not in the downtown part, but it's in 399 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.480 like a suburban park. And he got off there and 400 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.119 then he went across underneath Pot fifteen. After he got 401 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.880