Speaker 1: Welcome to Destiny.
Speaker 2: Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. You know, I love
Speaker 2: my phone and I love the Internet. I can't get
Speaker 2: enough of TikTok and these other streaming formats. And they're
Speaker 2: time They're very time consuming. You can watch the YouTube
Speaker 2: or TikTok for hours. I'll sit in front of the
Speaker 2: my phone for hours just watching the latest postings. And
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I have my own postings for
Speaker 2: Earth ancients, but what is going on with that? It's very,
Speaker 2: very time consuming. And I got to tell you, I
Speaker 2: think it's beginning to affect people because people.
Speaker 1: Don't dream anymore.
Speaker 2: And this is really critical factor mental health. If you
Speaker 2: don't have good dreaming consciousness, if you're not able to
Speaker 2: sleep long enough and get deep sleep rem sleep rapidi
Speaker 2: move is sleep, then your ability to go deep into
Speaker 2: your dreams is really compromise. Hey, this is Cliff, your
Speaker 2: host of Destiny, and this week we're talking about lucid
Speaker 2: dreams and the ability to dream in a level where
Speaker 2: you are processing your day, you are looking to the past,
Speaker 2: you're looking to the future, and you are coming up
Speaker 2: with problem solving dreams that you can use in your
Speaker 2: current reality and for a number of years I've had
Speaker 2: a dream journal where I am able to write down
Speaker 2: dreams that I had and shift into deeper dreams. But
Speaker 2: I am not one to do lucid dreaming. And this
Speaker 2: is something that's very critically important. And lucid dreams require
Speaker 2: a deeper level of rest, and I don't think I
Speaker 2: am quite ready for for lucid dreams yet. But I
Speaker 2: will say this in our guest program, who is a
Speaker 2: new book, will talk about techniques where you can actually
Speaker 2: rest during the day and as you're resting, you're shifting
Speaker 2: into that deeper level that where the lucid dreams actually
Speaker 2: began to unfold. The other thing that is of great
Speaker 2: interest to me is that today we talk about our
Speaker 2: ancestors dreams and ancient people two thousand plus years ago,
Speaker 2: the Babylonians and the Egyptians were able to dream and
Speaker 2: actually chronicle their dreams. In fact, in some cases the
Speaker 2: dreams were used as prophecy for events that were coming,
Speaker 2: for personal events and so on. It also crosses over
Speaker 2: into the indigenous side of things. Dream dreams were used
Speaker 2: as forms of vision quests. You want to to a dream,
Speaker 2: and because they didn't have the interference of all this WiFi.
Speaker 2: I think people in past generations were able to sell
Speaker 2: into the possibilities of having dreams and actually dreams that
Speaker 2: were lucid dreams. And this is what we're trying to
Speaker 2: talk about today, is getting into the state where you're
Speaker 2: having hyper hyper consciousness dreams, where they're so real it's
Speaker 2: like you're actually living in a reality. And some people
Speaker 2: think that lucid dreaming actually is a shifting into a
Speaker 2: higher reality, not necessarily a higher reality, but a higher
Speaker 2: level of consciousness that you can actually unfold. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna look at a number of aspects of dreaming today
Speaker 2: and give you step by step guidance of walking into
Speaker 2: and shifting into higher levels of dreams. So today we're
Speaker 2: talking about dreams and the program is programming your lucid dreams.
Speaker 2: And my guest is von Breshner. The Earth Ancients Guatemala
Speaker 2: Temple Tour December first through the twelfth.
Speaker 3: As you know from my work, one of the main
Speaker 3: functions of the tembuls is out of state, so we
Speaker 3: can really reprogram morself, We can manifest different things in
Speaker 3: our lives. There is also an opportunity for healing, so
Speaker 3: there is so much that we can do when.
Speaker 4: We have access see combining, you know, the left and
Speaker 4: right brain hemisphere approaches, or the more masculine semine.
Speaker 3: If you like.
Speaker 4: Knowing the science, doing measurements, understanding the electromagnetism and the
Speaker 4: spiritual technology of these temples, and then having the experiential side.
Speaker 4: I'm doing all the spiritual work offside.
Speaker 3: Is just like a very holistic, complete way to interact
Speaker 3: with the temples.
Speaker 2: That's doctor Lydia de Leong, our host for the upcoming
Speaker 2: Sacred Pyramid Tour in Guatemala December first of the twelfth.
Speaker 2: This is a rare opportunity to work with harmonics and
Speaker 2: the energy behind these pyramids. We only have a few
Speaker 2: places left. This is going to be a very rare
Speaker 2: opportunity to engage with the local shaman archaeologists who have
Speaker 2: been studying pyramids for decades, and opportunities not only to
Speaker 2: interact with the pyramid to lyrics that are available, but
Speaker 2: also sit, stand, walk and climb a variety of pyramids
Speaker 2: throughout Guatemala. For more information on this wonderful tour, go
Speaker 2: to earthacients dot com forward slash Tours looking for the
Speaker 2: banner and click it. If you have any questions whatsoever,
Speaker 2: Send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the
Speaker 2: number fourth LETTERU at gmail dot com, and.
Speaker 4: I will get right back to you.
Speaker 2: Join me on the special tour December first through the
Speaker 2: twelfth again. For more information, Earthancients dot com Forward slash tours. Hey,
Speaker 2: it's Labor Day weekend and that means getting together with
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Speaker 2: For a bourbon so good, all you need is ice.
Speaker 2: That's Chatnoogle Whiskey dot com. I have said I made
Speaker 2: lucid dreaming now for over twenty years and have found
Speaker 2: it fascinating. I can't say I'm an expert at lucid dreaming,
Speaker 2: but today we have an expert. And the reason why
Speaker 2: we're having the return of our guest is that he's
Speaker 2: written a very very not only a very very good book,
Speaker 2: but he actually touches some of the ancient versions of
Speaker 2: lucid dreaming and we're going to hear all about it today.
Speaker 2: My guess, my returning guest, is von Braschmeller, and he
Speaker 2: is a I mean not only he's an author, but
Speaker 2: he's written in a couple of very good books. The
Speaker 2: book we're talking about today is called Programming your Lucid Dreams,
Speaker 2: how to self direct dreams to achieve your goals and
Speaker 2: access hidden knowledge and lucid dreaming, and we'll learn more about.
Speaker 2: To say, lucid dreaming is a bit more challenging than
Speaker 2: simple dreaming, because when you're lucid dreaming, it's almost like
Speaker 2: you're in a form with reality. And like I mentioned before,
Speaker 2: I've done regular dreams and done dream journaling, but lucid
Speaker 2: dreams are a different animal. And this is why we
Speaker 2: have vn On so hey, welcome to Destiny.
Speaker 1: How you doing good?
Speaker 5: Thank you, Cliff, It's good to be back with you.
Speaker 2: All right, Vin, let's talk real quickly. What is lucid
Speaker 2: dreaming over simple basic dreaming? Why is it lucid dreaming
Speaker 2: so unique?
Speaker 5: Well, there's a long history of what we call dream work,
Speaker 5: and this is serious streaming. This is dreaming in reality
Speaker 5: and not simply playing back memories that you filed away
Speaker 5: in your mind and you keep sifting through them. The
Speaker 5: simple definition is that you're consciously aware of being in
Speaker 5: the dream. Furthermore, you're consciously aware in the dream so
Speaker 5: that you can react an act in the dream, as
Speaker 5: an act of participant. In short, it's a learning experience.
Speaker 5: And my approach to lucid dreaming, since I first had
Speaker 5: one in nineteen eighty and long to have more, was
Speaker 5: to what was to set up dreams as vehicles for
Speaker 5: learning and exploring and reaching new levels of conscious awareness.
Speaker 5: So I think the fact that you're consciously aware in
Speaker 5: your dream and that you're empowered in your dream, that's
Speaker 5: an important aspect because along with consciousness goes empowerment and awareness.
Speaker 2: So can you tell us or do you remember that
Speaker 2: first lucid dream that you had, because you know, something
Speaker 2: must have happened, either you were doing a practice, or
Speaker 2: you had a trauma, or you were taking some psychedelics.
Speaker 5: I've never done that, and I never encouraged anybody to
Speaker 5: take that short approach to what we'll call.
Speaker 1: Your vision questing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is just a very short road, and it
Speaker 5: can be a misleading road, as.
Speaker 2: You mean psychedelics taking yes, yes, as any of the great.
Speaker 5: Masters in the East would tell you, Yeah, you could
Speaker 5: do that, but it's like better to throw them in
Speaker 5: the river, you know, because they're not trustworthy. So anyway,
Speaker 5: my first experience that I remember it like it was
Speaker 5: yesterday in a sense. It was was in the winter
Speaker 5: of nineteen eighty and I was snowed in on Mount Hood.
Speaker 5: I might have said this on your show before, but
Speaker 5: I'll get to the point. I was snowed in and
Speaker 5: I had no power, I had no heat, I had
Speaker 5: no plumbing. It was all frozen. I had no food.
Speaker 5: My car was lost. I couldn't find it. I was
Speaker 5: poking around with a long broom handle. I was totally
Speaker 5: snowed in, and I said, you know what, that's okay,
Speaker 5: I'll just start reading and meditating. And after a long
Speaker 5: day of meditating and reading, and most of my books
Speaker 5: were Eastern spiritual science, but not entirely, A lot of
Speaker 5: were shamanic, I flopped back on my bed and I
Speaker 5: hit a vertebrae, a high vertebrae. I won't say which one,
Speaker 5: or everybody will try to do this because this does
Speaker 5: actually trip you out.
Speaker 1: And I was off in a lucid dream.
Speaker 5: Now I know it was a lucid dream and not
Speaker 5: just an unconscious mind floating, because it was I was
Speaker 5: consciously aware.
Speaker 1: In the dream.
Speaker 5: I saw myself lying on the bed. I could accurately
Speaker 5: see in detail everything below me that was physical. I, however,
Speaker 5: was not physical. I was in a non physical energy
Speaker 5: body floating above the bed.
Speaker 1: Higher and higher.
Speaker 5: And I said, how can I go? And I said,
Speaker 5: this is great. I've heard of this, I said, I've
Speaker 5: read about this. So I start floating and I said,
Speaker 5: can I go through the roof?
Speaker 1: Indeed? I could?
Speaker 5: Could I go above the tree line? Indeed I could?
Speaker 5: Could I go higher than the hundred foot fir trees
Speaker 5: in front? Because I lived on mountain in Oregon?
Speaker 1: And I could?
Speaker 5: And I looked down and everything got dark and small,
Speaker 5: and I thought, this is great, but I don't know
Speaker 5: where I'm going. I don't know how to get there,
Speaker 5: and I don't know how to react when I get there,
Speaker 5: so I'd better go back. I hope I can go back.
Speaker 5: And I said, how do I go back? And I
Speaker 5: swear to God, Cliff, I thought of Dorothy and the
Speaker 5: Wizard of Oz. I didn't click my ruby red slippers,
Speaker 5: but I said, I thought, there's no place like home.
Speaker 5: And I was instantly back in my body, which has
Speaker 5: always told me you can always go back to your
Speaker 5: physical body because you're karmically, energetically magnetically connected to your body,
Speaker 5: and so yeah, you just think back to your body,
Speaker 5: in your back, there's no worry. So after that I
Speaker 5: started to read really in great detail all of my
Speaker 5: books on yoga, and I thought, how do the great
Speaker 5: masters leave their body? How do they have these profound dreams?
Speaker 1: And I found out it.
Speaker 5: Wasn't just them, It went back thousands of years. I
Speaker 5: found out there were like three dozen references in the
Speaker 5: King James Bible, Old Testament and New Testament where people
Speaker 5: would have profound dreams. These were vivid dreams, colorful dreams,
Speaker 5: detailed dreams, impactful, meaningful, powerful dreams of significance, and they
Speaker 5: weren't just memories. Now a common dream is just a
Speaker 5: memory that you can't shake out of you your head,
Speaker 5: and you can't get that song out of your head,
Speaker 5: and it's because your body really isn't but the sleep,
Speaker 5: and you're just kind of playing the old tunes over
Speaker 5: and over in your head. And you couldn't resolve these
Speaker 5: questions when you were wide awake. Now that you're half asleep, well,
Speaker 5: it's even worse. So these are often called nightmares or
Speaker 5: night sweat dreams. Common dreams sometimes interesting, usually perplexing and troublesome.
Speaker 5: But I had this wonderful dream, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 5: how on earth do people ever return to a dream?
Speaker 5: And how do they how do they expand on the
Speaker 5: dream and continue it once they've returned to it? And
Speaker 5: I started reading Deep, Deep, Deep into it, and I dream,
Speaker 5: I dreamed, I sort of like a dream. I started
Speaker 5: reading that there was a great interest in early yoga
Speaker 5: and consciousness training. In fact, you might consider all of
Speaker 5: yoga consciousness training on three levels body, mind, and spirit.
Speaker 5: So you look at the my favorite book, the Yoga
Speaker 5: Sutras of Patanjuli. It is clearly outlined in three steps body, uh,
Speaker 5: spirit and mind, and I think mind mind a second,
Speaker 5: and spirits last. And in short, it trained you how
Speaker 5: to achieve postures and which we know is hatha yoga,
Speaker 5: which most people think is the way to get fit
Speaker 5: and stretch.
Speaker 1: But it's more than that.
Speaker 5: It's preparing yourself. And then you're preparing yourself. Cousinata said
Speaker 5: the same thing, prepare the physical for the outward journey.
Speaker 5: So the thing is then you then you go into
Speaker 5: the greater The greater journey is metaphysical and and this
Speaker 5: is kind of the second part of the book. And
Speaker 5: then if you want to go all the way through
Speaker 5: all those hundreds and hundreds of pages of you know,
Speaker 5: which are hundreds of years old, then you get to
Speaker 5: the last part, which is magical. And that's when I
Speaker 5: hit the old mind. Because there are people who practice
Speaker 5: yoga training to the point where and this is kind
Speaker 5: of the area of the school of Raja Yoga where the
Speaker 5: Samadi mystics begin to train their young ones how to
Speaker 5: have profound experiences and journey beyond what we would say
Speaker 5: is is.
Speaker 1: My time here? And now you know?
Speaker 5: So they the first thing they will teach the Samadi
Speaker 5: students is how to do lucid dreaming. And when they
Speaker 5: get really good at lucid dreaming, then they'll they'll take
Speaker 5: them deeper down the path of yoga training so they
Speaker 5: can have great what what in some in and and
Speaker 5: Shamanism will here described as the outer journey or the
Speaker 5: vision quest. It involves getting into an altered state of consciousness. Uh,
Speaker 5: that's why meditation works it very well. But I found
Speaker 5: that for many people it's hard to meditate deep enough
Speaker 5: to get into this what we call lucid dream state.
Speaker 5: And for them, I I I suggest self hypnosis frankly,
Speaker 5: because you know it's very similar. You know, you can
Speaker 5: train the body to go to sleep, bring the mind
Speaker 5: to go to sleep, and bring forward to your inner consciousness.
Speaker 5: So when I started studying about the Samadi experience and
Speaker 5: the students in the East, I was fascinated because there
Speaker 5: was a huge tsunami that hit southern India and northern
Speaker 5: Indonesia a.
Speaker 1: Few years back. You might remember it.
Speaker 5: And I think it's called the Boxing Day storm, and
Speaker 5: they worried the Samadi masters. They worried about their young
Speaker 5: novices that they had put into lucid dreams. Now they
Speaker 5: would they would set them off on their dreams in
Speaker 5: the in the advanced students, while novices would go so
Speaker 5: deep into a lucid dream that they would stay there
Speaker 5: a long time and it was hard to bring them out.
Speaker 5: In fact, they wouldn't try to bring them out, They
Speaker 5: would wait for them to just come out.
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the early
Speaker 2: part of your book where you describe how the Babylonians
Speaker 2: and the Egyptians actually recorded their dreams. How do we
Speaker 2: know that those dreams are lucid dreams? Was the description
Speaker 2: just incredibly detailed?
Speaker 1: This is?
Speaker 5: Is this how you incredibly yeah, incredibly detailed. You know,
Speaker 5: these people, the Babylonians and Assyrians, they were extremely good
Speaker 5: at keeping tablet records of what they did. Furthermore, a
Speaker 5: lot of the dreams were have been trans transferred to
Speaker 5: the Christian Bible. We know that there were Babylonian kings
Speaker 5: that would would have dreams and they would be interpreted
Speaker 5: at the time. I think I have an example here
Speaker 5: of Joseph who Joseph actually interpreted a dream.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: Yes, uh. Pharaohs in Egypt would would have dreams. The
Speaker 5: Babylonians would have dreams and and and and these are
Speaker 5: often reported in it's far back in the bibleist genesis
Speaker 5: that the idea that the god or or or a messenger,
Speaker 5: perhaps an angel would come and speak to them. So
Speaker 5: our earliest records, in fact, do come from ancient Babylonia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned Giglamesh. One give us an example if
Speaker 2: you can, of one of his lucid dreams that perhaps
Speaker 2: turned into a prophecy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So the adventures of Gilgamesh, who had more fun, well,
Speaker 5: what a daring life.
Speaker 1: So so the.
Speaker 5: Story of Gilgamesh is is is like a dream diary.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: He he recorded his dreams and they're told like, uh,
Speaker 5: you know the Arabian nights. Uh he he there were
Speaker 5: dreams of of building things and adventures and things that
Speaker 5: he would see, the temples that would be built.
Speaker 1: Directions.
Speaker 5: It's almost like in in in in in in our
Speaker 5: corner of the world. Uh, a Native American Shamans who
Speaker 5: would have visions and would report this to the people.
Speaker 5: You know, it was like it was yes, it was
Speaker 5: his personal dream, but they were like dreams of importance
Speaker 5: to the community, like building a temple is a good example.
Speaker 2: Do you think that Giggle Mesh and these other examples
Speaker 2: were actually able to see in the future. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so they were tracking events and activities that were far
Speaker 2: ahead of time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think we see this today
Speaker 5: we go in for some reason, after you know, more
Speaker 5: than five thousand years of dream work with lucid dreaming,
Speaker 5: we don't have a lot of respect in our culture
Speaker 5: for lucid dreaming. And people will have prophetic dreams and
Speaker 5: they'll say I had a dream of the future. I
Speaker 5: dream what was going to happen in the future, and
Speaker 5: they will laugh and it would be like amusing, you know,
Speaker 5: But then when they come true, you know, we see
Speaker 5: that this is happening. Yet today that people are going
Speaker 5: apparently into the future and seeing what is going to
Speaker 5: take place, coming back and reporting on it. So, yes,
Speaker 5: this is one interesting thing about lucid dreaming. There is
Speaker 5: no there is no fixed time. You can go back
Speaker 5: in the past and into the future.
Speaker 2: I want you to talk a little bit about Native
Speaker 2: Indigenous people because it's almost like they are raised to
Speaker 2: induce lucid dreaming rather than just dreaming. It's like you
Speaker 2: have to have it's like part of a lifestyle. They
Speaker 2: are trained to move into that lucid state, and so
Speaker 2: they can begin having their own visions, their own as
Speaker 2: you call it, ahead of time, Yequesse.
Speaker 5: Yeah, these people are really chosen. They're special people. It
Speaker 5: just between you and me, Cliff. It kind of bothers
Speaker 5: me today that people are getting certified to be urban shamans.
Speaker 5: I think it's it's interesting that a person could study this.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's fascinating and I've certainly tried
Speaker 5: to study it, but I don't claim to be a shaman.
Speaker 5: I would never do that because these people were were
Speaker 5: often selected not just who they were, their their their birth,
Speaker 5: in their in their in their bloodline, but they often
Speaker 5: were people who were lame. The idea of the wounded
Speaker 5: healer makes a good representative for the people.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: The wounded healer is ideal to go out there and
Speaker 5: fight the journeys uh into the land of the unknown,
Speaker 5: because this really is a journey into the unknown.
Speaker 1: We're leaving the known world.
Speaker 5: To go into the unknown, like the hero's journey and
Speaker 5: and and the The shaman then would be a person
Speaker 5: who would be selected, not necessarily born and into the
Speaker 5: job and then and then trained through a period by
Speaker 5: the previous shaman to do this work and then trained
Speaker 5: to do what to do to enter into great uh
Speaker 5: trance like states which we might call like meditative states
Speaker 5: or self hypnosis, whatever you want to think of it
Speaker 5: a bit, but this would I had I had a
Speaker 5: teacher who did this, and he would go into a
Speaker 5: deep trance very much like a shaman. And and then
Speaker 5: then uh this this this shaman would would go and
Speaker 5: would would would go forward into the future or back
Speaker 5: into the past to speak to as they would say,
Speaker 5: talk to the ancestors. They would go into the future
Speaker 5: to see what the future holds for my people, and
Speaker 5: then they would come back and report, you know. But
Speaker 5: but moreover they would teach this. They were teachers as well,
Speaker 5: and they would teach others in the community and the
Speaker 5: tribe how to do this vision questing on a personal level.
Speaker 5: Your own personal vision quest might not hold great meaning
Speaker 5: for the community, but it holds great importance to your
Speaker 5: life direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. It's the earlier civilizations really cultivated
Speaker 2: dreaming much more than we do today. How do we
Speaker 2: know when we're because I dream, I dream fairly fair amount,
Speaker 2: and I try to keep a dream journal, How do
Speaker 2: we move into the lucid dream? How do we induce
Speaker 2: the lucid dream?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I found that there were certain things that people
Speaker 5: wanted to go into lucid dreaming were just not conscious
Speaker 5: of or are doing. And one was they were not
Speaker 5: preparing the physical body and mind to go into a
Speaker 5: deep state of rest. And I call it a state
Speaker 5: of surrender. And this requires a lot of internal harmony.
Speaker 5: Think of the whole whole body. Picture the whole body,
Speaker 5: the wholeness of you, which is body, mind, and spirit. Well,
Speaker 5: when you go into a state of rest and prepare
Speaker 5: yourself for a dream, it's not enough just to lie
Speaker 5: down in your bed, close your eyes and drift off
Speaker 5: because you're not because you're because you're still kind of
Speaker 5: back floating next to the dock. See, you're not really
Speaker 5: out there, you know. So so you need to actually
Speaker 5: get deeper into sleep. You actually need to physically put
Speaker 5: your will your body to sleep. So sometimes when I
Speaker 5: find it hard to get there, and this was particularly
Speaker 5: true for me in the beginning, I started cribbing off
Speaker 5: of some of these wonderful books. And there are many
Speaker 5: books that you can get on self hypnosis that you
Speaker 5: you would actually physically focus on your attention on putting
Speaker 5: your feet to sleep, your legs to sleep, your corso
Speaker 5: to sleep, all like that, all the way to the
Speaker 5: top of the d then finally putting the mind to sleep.
Speaker 5: The final stage, which is very difficult, is to reach
Speaker 5: a state of inner accord. Now in yoga training you
Speaker 5: talk about the mind is the slayer of the mind.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: That is to say, your inner consciousness must slay your
Speaker 5: physical mind for you to have a greater conscious experience.
Speaker 5: But this is this is I'm not faulting the translation
Speaker 5: of the sandscript. I'm just saying that words can get
Speaker 5: in the way of truth. You're not slaying anything. You're
Speaker 5: reaching an inner chord harmony, a body minded spirit level
Speaker 5: of of of attunement.
Speaker 4: And you.
Speaker 5: Need to assure the physical brain, your mind, that it's
Speaker 5: going to be completely at rest, completely safe, and completely
Speaker 5: rested while it surrenders control for a brief time for
Speaker 5: a specific purpose, which is the dream, to your inner mind,
Speaker 5: your inner consciousness. And then at that point then your
Speaker 5: consciousness can come forward and take you on a journey.
Speaker 5: Until that happens, you have a backseat driver, and that's
Speaker 5: known as the little brain. Rending the whole big body.
Speaker 2: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 2: our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
Speaker 2: with my guest today, Von Brosler, discussing his newest book,
Speaker 2: Programming Your Lucid Dreams. Will be right back. We're talking
Speaker 2: lucid dreams today and how to program them effortlessly with
Speaker 2: my guest today, Von Bristler. And this is a new book,
Speaker 2: a step by step guide to opening to more lucid dreams.
Speaker 2: Is the samadi's training from the yoga sutras that you're Uh,
Speaker 2: it's the foundation of this work that you're presenting in
Speaker 2: this book. But is that a course of meditation, because
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm meditating for thirty years. Do meditators have
Speaker 2: an easy time to get into lucid dreaming.
Speaker 1: Or nobody does?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the whole thing is that we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about some of the exercises in a minute. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that you suggest, But lucid dreaming is like a whole
Speaker 2: different animal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and yeah, you have to be dedicated to it
Speaker 5: and you have to actually work at it. Hence, traditionally
Speaker 5: this was called dream work. It wasn't dream play.
Speaker 1: Or idle moments.
Speaker 5: It was dream work and you you The ancient Egyptians,
Speaker 5: for example, learning from the Babylonian experience, they quickly developed
Speaker 5: dream temples, which was continued into the Greek, the classical
Speaker 5: Greek Greek era, and into the Roman. Even that there
Speaker 5: would be dream temples, there would be a dream attendant,
Speaker 5: there would be be a dream assistant that you would
Speaker 5: you would have somebody who would kind of coach you
Speaker 5: and set up the experience. Now, setting up the experience
Speaker 5: then means that you have a place that's completely safe,
Speaker 5: quiet and secluded. It is a place of peacefulness. And
Speaker 5: why this is to assure your physical self and your
Speaker 5: and your physical mind, which is always concerned with your
Speaker 5: safety and well being, that it's going to be okay
Speaker 5: during this brief period, that in fact, it's going to
Speaker 5: in in in exchange for surrendering a few moments of
Speaker 5: somewhat control, that it's going to be it's going to
Speaker 5: be rewarded by the greatest moments of restfulness and peace
Speaker 5: that it's it's had in a long time. It's it's
Speaker 5: holding a grip on you so tightly that we're all
Speaker 5: kind of high strung.
Speaker 2: So if somebody has trouble sleeping, that's not going to
Speaker 2: be a great candidate for a lucid dreaming because you're
Speaker 2: you're talking about being thoroughly rested. Uh, and so any
Speaker 2: fatigue is going to impede the whole processes in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you want to become really good. It's slipping off,
Speaker 5: it's slipping away, you know, and to where it becomes
Speaker 5: very easy to where you could actually do this in
Speaker 5: a daydreaming. In daydreaming, where you can do this in
Speaker 5: an awaking dream. You could do it in a chair,
Speaker 5: you could, you could. You know, my power naps are
Speaker 5: off and now like lucid dreams, you know they could
Speaker 5: be very brief.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: It doesn't have to It doesn't have to happen at
Speaker 5: night during your sleep mode, when you're reclining in you
Speaker 5: in your bed. You could you could set it up
Speaker 5: to happen anytime, but you must be willing to surrender
Speaker 5: and open yourself up to the greater adventure.
Speaker 2: Okay, before we get into some practical app implications, what
Speaker 2: can we accomplish in a lucid dream? What are some
Speaker 2: of the benefits of I mean, you talked about going
Speaker 2: forward and in your book. You describe going back into
Speaker 2: the past, which I find fascinating. But what are some
Speaker 2: of the things that an active dreamscape lucid dreamer can accomplish.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I find it fascinating. I must confess. I use
Speaker 5: it for a lot of little practical personal things. But
Speaker 5: I know that there are great questions to be resolved.
Speaker 5: And this is the journey of the soul. This is
Speaker 5: where your soul, your inner consciousness, wants to take you.
Speaker 5: It needs to go out there and discover. It needs
Speaker 5: to be Odysseus on the raft. It needs to find
Speaker 5: the golden fleece it needs, it needs the vision quest.
Speaker 5: It needs to find answers for you. It needs to
Speaker 5: take you out there to confront and open new doors
Speaker 5: and reach new horizons. And this is what life is.
Speaker 5: I mean, is life for you simply waking up and
Speaker 5: drinking coffee?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean this is my day. But there's more.
Speaker 5: There's more to it, you know, And I think all
Speaker 5: of us know this, that this life well spent is
Speaker 5: a life of growth and stretching. And so it is
Speaker 5: with our dreams. I'm so big on getting people to
Speaker 5: actually learn to do lucid dreaming because it is our
Speaker 5: great opportunity for personal discovery and insight.
Speaker 1: You can't get.
Speaker 5: This anywhere else, anywhere else, and it's available to every
Speaker 5: one of us if we're willing to set up a dream.
Speaker 2: Can you give us a couple of examples of either
Speaker 2: students or noted dreamers who have chronicled and journaled what
Speaker 2: they have achieved in their lucid dreams. Perhaps somebody had
Speaker 2: an intention for some activity or bits of knowledge, or
Speaker 2: meeting somebody or and they had their lucid dream.
Speaker 5: Well, there certainly are in the East a lot of
Speaker 5: a lot of visionaries that have reported their their journeys
Speaker 5: into the other worlds, other levels of reality that you
Speaker 5: know can be read about in Eastern spiritual science records. Uh,
Speaker 5: the virginneys of Swami sacha Ananda have been very inspirational
Speaker 5: to me. I think, I don't know if I should
Speaker 5: bring this up, but but you can. You can also
Speaker 5: look to in Ick and car you can find uh
Speaker 5: that the original founder of that, Paul Twitchell writes about,
Speaker 5: if not his own experience, that of his teachers were
Speaker 5: likely maybe controversially, there are various people that have described
Speaker 5: where they've gone and what they've seen. Some of them
Speaker 5: are Native Americans like Sunbar very inspirational. I would I
Speaker 5: would say that the writings of Costinata are largely based
Speaker 5: on LCID dreams. If you if you had mentioned Carlos, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 5: I'll never I'll never stop defending him because because his
Speaker 5: first book he submitted to us at Llewellen. Uh and
Speaker 5: I worked originally at Llewella in My first publisher was
Speaker 5: jewellan And and it was submitted to us in our publisher,
Speaker 5: Bless his soul, fine man. He said, not going to
Speaker 5: publish a grad student's field research.
Speaker 1: That was his first book. Oh my god.
Speaker 5: And I said, are you sure I have a feeling
Speaker 5: about this guy? He said, no, No, we start doing that,
Speaker 5: we'll get all these these dissertations, and I don't want
Speaker 5: to go that way. Well, okay, so now the rap
Speaker 5: on Cosinata is that all of his subsequent I think
Speaker 5: there were seven or eight books after the first, and
Speaker 5: they were all massive mega sellers, right, yeah, okay, they
Speaker 5: they all sounded a lot like the first one. And
Speaker 5: in the controversy was that he couldn't substantiate that he'd
Speaker 5: gone to Mexico except as a grad student to study
Speaker 5: the effects of piote on on on natives in northern Mexico,
Speaker 5: as he did for the first book book, which starts
Speaker 5: the whole story right and then and then, but but
Speaker 5: then the story continues as though he's continuing his teaching
Speaker 5: with these with these, with these masters in Mexico. So
Speaker 5: I would suggest to you that that Carlos began to
Speaker 5: just have uh uh lucid dreams of going to Mexico.
Speaker 5: You know, either that he was or he was just
Speaker 5: inferring what what would happen next in the training. And
Speaker 5: I think that would make him like one of the
Speaker 5: greatest metaphysical writers of all time if you just had
Speaker 5: this in his head and he could actually manufacture it.
Speaker 5: It came from somewhere, you know. So I think that
Speaker 5: at some point we have to stop thinking about who
Speaker 5: is the messenger versus what is the message? The message
Speaker 5: is quite amazing.
Speaker 2: Do you have any students that have been using your techniques, uh,
Speaker 2: and have reported back on their experience? Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Various people have done this and they find it helpful
Speaker 5: U two to to actually follow. It's a step by
Speaker 5: step thing. Now, I don't I don't advocate that you
Speaker 5: sit there and read to yourself when you're trying to
Speaker 5: go into alusid dream. But you study the steps and
Speaker 5: then you just do it, you know, And don't don't
Speaker 5: worry if you're getting the steps on a sequence. I
Speaker 5: do it all the time, you know. Just just know
Speaker 5: that you know that there are various steps that would
Speaker 5: be helpful and and and put them into the equation.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I know a number of people now. When
Speaker 5: uh I was out at the Omazing Institute in New York,
Speaker 5: I I tried the technique as best I could, like
Speaker 5: this somebodie students, UH did. And I wondered how long
Speaker 5: I could take a group of people that had been
Speaker 5: introduced to this over a period of just a week,
Speaker 5: and then after the end of the week, put them
Speaker 5: into individual dreams of their own choice, of their own direction.
Speaker 5: In other words, I set them all up to have
Speaker 5: their own individual dreams, and I left them all at
Speaker 5: a room, and I wondered how many would like come
Speaker 5: out of the dream and you know, ten minutes or
Speaker 5: you know, thirty seconds or an hour, well, the whole day,
Speaker 5: the whole day, you know, and it's like at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, you know, I just said, like
Speaker 5: these people have to like leave the building and we
Speaker 5: have to lock it up, and somebody's been recording the session.
Speaker 5: There's nothing said, you know, I said, God is and
Speaker 5: we have to go to dinner. And so I said,
Speaker 5: oh my gosh, what did I say to them when
Speaker 5: I set them up? How do I bring them out
Speaker 5: of it?
Speaker 2: So you able, you're saying, you're you're teaching a course
Speaker 2: with the Omega Institute in New York. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: did a lucid dream. Yeah, of course all day, of course,
Speaker 2: and people were systematically going into the lucid dreams. They
Speaker 2: all went off in a dream of their own direction.
Speaker 2: And they were gone there for several several hours.
Speaker 1: Wow, and what?
Speaker 5: And I sat there and I studied them, you know,
Speaker 5: I mean far across the room, mind you. But it's
Speaker 5: like I noticed their eyes did in twitch, their toes
Speaker 5: in twitch. Nobody coughed, you know, It's like they were
Speaker 5: just gone. And finally I remember, and I went, I said,
Speaker 5: returning to your bodies, now, returning to your bodies now,
Speaker 5: because it was the last thing and I should have
Speaker 5: remembered this that I said to them when I set
Speaker 5: them off, and I said, you're going to stay in
Speaker 5: your lucid dream until I call you back. I'll go
Speaker 5: and I'll bring you back. And I said, oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: I should have written it down right. So but then
Speaker 5: then the funny thing is they all quickly, you know,
Speaker 5: without standing up. They all you know, bent forward and
Speaker 5: they're reclining positions because they were all on their back
Speaker 5: on the floor and they were all alert. They're all
Speaker 5: like wide awake. They weren't drowsy from having been sleeping
Speaker 5: for hours. That was a strange thing. And they all
Speaker 5: wanted to talk about what they've seen and what they've done,
Speaker 5: because they all went different directions.
Speaker 2: I mean, let me just stop you for a second. Von,
Speaker 2: I mean, you were the catalyst to to help the
Speaker 2: help these people drop into a lucid state. I mean
Speaker 2: that's you're talking. We're not talking about any psychedelics. You're
Speaker 2: talking talking about your inducement. It was amazing. I mean,
Speaker 2: what was it about that day that got you just,
Speaker 2: uh as such a talented lucid dream facilitator.
Speaker 5: Oh, I don't think of talented at all. I mean
Speaker 5: I simply spent the first few days telling them about
Speaker 5: how to set up a lucid dream. And then and
Speaker 5: I talked about how you can go back into the
Speaker 5: past into the future. You could find the lost keys,
Speaker 5: you could you could you could view your past life
Speaker 5: or lives. You could look for lost people. Uh, you
Speaker 5: could many things. You could look for answers. If you
Speaker 5: had questions, you could you could search out answers.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I said, it's infinite what you do. So when I
Speaker 5: set them up on this, I said, today is a
Speaker 5: free day.
Speaker 1: You're all going to go your own direction.
Speaker 5: And they looked at me like, I said, you're all
Speaker 5: going to select your own dream. And I said, you
Speaker 5: all have been told and learned how to do this,
Speaker 5: and now the test is you're all going to go
Speaker 5: off on your own lucid dream. And and don't be
Speaker 5: confined that you're just going to be roaming the grounds
Speaker 5: here or you're just going to be in the here
Speaker 5: and now. You can go into the past, into the future,
Speaker 5: anywhere you want to go, you know, alternate realities, alternate worlds.
Speaker 1: I don't care.
Speaker 5: I said, you decide where you're going to go. I said,
Speaker 5: it's going to be a dream of your own making
Speaker 5: you decide where and when and what you're going to
Speaker 5: dream about. And that's that's the only thing. And so
Speaker 5: I got them started with with with you know, putting
Speaker 5: them to sleep. You know, I took them that far.
Speaker 5: And then then I said, and now the consciousness comes forward.
Speaker 5: And I said, now, when the consciousness comes forward, you're
Speaker 5: going to prepare an agenda of where you want to go.
Speaker 5: You're going to visualize in terms of pictures, not words
Speaker 5: or sounds, but pictures where you're going to go and
Speaker 5: what you want to see and what you want to do.
Speaker 1: I said.
Speaker 5: It could be sketchy, yeah, and it's your own map.
Speaker 5: I said, but you need to form the pictures because
Speaker 5: this is how thought forms work. This is how our
Speaker 5: consciousness leaves us, leaves our body and go somewhere does
Speaker 5: something with pictures. And so then then they were all off.
Speaker 5: And it was amazing how quickly they all fell into
Speaker 5: it and how long they all stayed into it.
Speaker 2: Are you just saying that everybody in the in the
Speaker 2: class was relaxed enough and went into a sleep state
Speaker 2: and were able to jump into the lucid dreaming.
Speaker 5: It seemed to me that they were all deeply into
Speaker 5: a dream. I could see no physical signs that any
Speaker 5: of them were actually awake at any time during this
Speaker 5: entire day, and it's like to this, I just remark
Speaker 5: how amazing that was. But it also tells me how
Speaker 5: anybody could do this, because there were nineteen people in
Speaker 5: that room, not including me and the guy who was
Speaker 5: trying to record nothing because it sounds and there was
Speaker 5: a wide variation in the people. There was a fellow
Speaker 5: there who was a professor of economics at New York NYU.
Speaker 5: There was somebody who was a real estate broker. There
Speaker 5: was somebody who was a dentist. There was somebody who
Speaker 5: was an assistant stage manager Broadway or off Broadway. They
Speaker 5: were all different. They were all really really different people,
Speaker 5: you know. And I remember at the very beginning, we
Speaker 5: had two people that dropped out. I said, this is
Speaker 5: going to be a week and I'm going to show
Speaker 5: you how to actually leave your body in meditation. And
Speaker 5: before I got too far, we took a break and
Speaker 5: two of them left and they went to square dance,
Speaker 5: and I said, I lost two people. They said, yeah,
Speaker 5: you said you were just going to teach them how
Speaker 5: to meditate to leave the body. I said, well, there's
Speaker 5: a little more than that, I said, but okay, I said,
Speaker 5: square dancing is fun.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: So we had nineteen people and and at the end
Speaker 5: we had a couple people that showed up late because
Speaker 5: they couldn't get there on day one, so we ended
Speaker 5: up with nineteen. But yeah, I mean, it's it's I mean,
Speaker 5: in a lucid dream, it might seem amazing that people
Speaker 5: could be gone three days, as in the case of
Speaker 5: the tsunami in India. It might be might be amazing
Speaker 5: that all these people at this little retreat in upstate
Speaker 5: New York could be gone all day in a lucid
Speaker 5: dream with little training. But but, but, but anybody, anybody
Speaker 5: can do this.
Speaker 1: And the amazing thing is time. Is it significant?
Speaker 5: Because in a lucid dream, you could be gone on
Speaker 5: just a few clicks of the clock next to your bed.
Speaker 5: But you've lived a whole lifetime. I've done that, and
Speaker 5: you come back and say, I can't believe I was
Speaker 5: gone five minutes.
Speaker 1: I lived a whole life in this other world.
Speaker 5: And the reverse can be true.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm fascinating.
Speaker 5: Yeah, time is meaningless in the spirit realm, and that's
Speaker 5: what we're speaking about.
Speaker 2: We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our
Speaker 2: sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly with
Speaker 2: my guest today Von Brageler discussing his newest book, Programming
Speaker 2: Your Lucid Dreams, will rejoin you shortly. Mom. Broschelar has
Speaker 2: written three books on lucid dreams. The newest one we're
Speaker 2: featuring today is Programming Your Lucid Dreams. And we're getting
Speaker 2: into a step by step program that will guarantee you
Speaker 2: lucid dreams. Let's talk real quickly on about and you've
Speaker 2: been giving us the step by step setup for the dreamscape.
Speaker 2: So the first thing is a quiet space obviously. And
Speaker 2: I don't know, did you have people bring blankets and pillows,
Speaker 2: their favorite pillows so they were comfortable when they.
Speaker 1: Were laying down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but by the last day, that's that's what they
Speaker 5: were we're doing.
Speaker 2: I mean they bring their favorite pillow or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so so they can you can just recline. I
Speaker 5: think it's better when you recline on your back. First
Speaker 5: of all. I think it's better when your legs and
Speaker 5: arms are are extended a little bit. I think of
Speaker 5: the in yoga because I've done a lot of yoga training.
Speaker 5: The dead Man posed, but but just extended. Nothing crossing uh,
Speaker 5: no loose fitting clothing or no clothing, no jewelry. Take
Speaker 5: your glasses off, take your watch off, take your bracelet off,
Speaker 5: none of that.
Speaker 1: Nothing. You know.
Speaker 5: Don't cross your feet or legs. Sometimes I sleep with
Speaker 5: my feet crossed.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like not on a lucid dream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're fine. It's interesting because you say in here,
Speaker 2: focus your attention on putting the physical body to sleep,
Speaker 2: and then you're talking about this right now, start with
Speaker 2: your feet and work your way up to your head.
Speaker 2: If somebody has a problem sleepy, yeah, it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: You have to be somewhat of a regular sleeper, don't you.
Speaker 1: Well, this is what's interesting.
Speaker 5: You know, people that get canked out, you know, they
Speaker 5: have amazing lucid dreams because the spirit leaves the body
Speaker 5: because suddenly, suddenly it's it's set free, you know, or
Speaker 5: or or people who are are in a comba, they'll
Speaker 5: have remembered things or people that that have like in
Speaker 5: an operation, I mean always recently, in a twelve hour operation.
Speaker 5: It's like you you can go a lot of places
Speaker 5: in twelve hours, you know. Oh yeah, but but but
Speaker 5: know that there's an inner side of what everybody knows
Speaker 5: there's an inner voice in each one of us. Without
Speaker 5: getting into any kind of spiritual analysis, there's an inner
Speaker 5: you that that that that speaks to you and has
Speaker 5: your best interest at heart. And that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 5: I think a bit of spirit.
Speaker 2: So talk about the next uh phase, which is deep
Speaker 2: rhythmatic breathing. Yes, until it becomes regular. Now what does
Speaker 2: what does that help? How does that does that kind
Speaker 2: of shift the consciousness a little bit?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Now, this this is going to actually this is part
Speaker 5: of yoga training that it just seems to fit handing
Speaker 5: glove here. It It actually opens up oneself to to
Speaker 5: let consciousness come forward. Uh it it It is not
Speaker 5: depriving you. I mean when we when we begin to
Speaker 5: do shallow breathing, I catch myself doing this now and
Speaker 5: then moments of stress. Uh there, there isn't a lot
Speaker 5: of great thought going on.
Speaker 1: You know that.
Speaker 5: You know you're just barely breathing. You know you've got
Speaker 5: you've got to actually begin deep rhythmic reading. I like,
Speaker 5: I like a breath uh in threes. Uh, I do
Speaker 5: uh three deep breaths. Hold it for the count of three,
Speaker 5: and then I expel it for three and as I
Speaker 5: begin it, I usually will think of of of of
Speaker 5: taking in the energy and the pure error around me,
Speaker 5: and then and then purifying it and blessing it as
Speaker 5: they take it inside and internalize it, and then I
Speaker 5: expel it with with my with my love and gratitude, uh,
Speaker 5: onto the world. I think that getting into breathing exercises
Speaker 5: is almost as important as is and this is probably
Speaker 5: why people have trouble because they're they're really not relaxing,
Speaker 5: and this is very relaxing when you get into deep
Speaker 5: breathing and breathing exercises.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2: You go to the next phase, which is preparing map,
Speaker 2: and then you're saying, here, I'm just going to read
Speaker 2: the first of six sections, which is notice that your
Speaker 2: heightened consciousness is now racing while your body and analytical
Speaker 2: mind is at rest. Yeah, and so you're you're leaving
Speaker 2: the critical thinking mind you have everyday activity, and this
Speaker 2: other mind, the other level of consciousness, is you want
Speaker 2: to bring in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to recognize at
Speaker 5: some point that your analytical mind, this little pocket calculator
Speaker 5: that runs her life, does a really good job for
Speaker 5: what it does, but there are limits to what it
Speaker 5: can do it. It is based, It is limited by
Speaker 5: its own frame of reference, its own memory bank. It
Speaker 5: is only as good as the information you put in.
Speaker 5: It's like a computer and nothing else. You can't speculate
Speaker 5: on the unknown. You know, it doesn't know where you
Speaker 5: were before this life. It doesn't know what lies ahead
Speaker 5: of you. It doesn't know what you need, It doesn't
Speaker 5: know what's out there in the unknown world. There's only
Speaker 5: one part of you that does, and that's your inner consciousness.
Speaker 5: So it's very important to begin mapping by setting up.
Speaker 1: The right part of you in charge.
Speaker 2: So then you get to this state of consciousness that
Speaker 2: you're calling the dreams scape dream scape. And this is
Speaker 2: interesting what you write. Orient yourself to your presence there
Speaker 2: and your surrounding. That's really critical, isn't it That?
Speaker 5: Really, it really is clip because you know otherwise you're not.
Speaker 1: You're not aware that you're.
Speaker 5: Truly in a lucid dream. You need to orient yourself
Speaker 5: so that you're consciously aware. And when you become consciously aware,
Speaker 5: then your full uh a set of conscious awareness opens
Speaker 5: up to you, and and and and that's a tremendous
Speaker 5: bank of resources to draw upon. It replaces all of
Speaker 5: your physical perceptions that you've left behind in the physical realm.
Speaker 2: And so, I mean, I've heard different techniques like look
Speaker 2: at your hands or something, and I don't know what
Speaker 2: the significance of looking at your hands is, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a good bound that your physicality.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Now this confuses people because you say that in your
Speaker 5: in your lucid dream, the way that we're describing it here,
Speaker 5: it's a non physical reality. It is your subtle it
Speaker 5: is your consciousness on subtle energy body level, having left
Speaker 5: the body, So how would you have hands? So, I mean,
Speaker 5: I think the thing that the thing to think about
Speaker 5: is that that you're when you've left your your your
Speaker 5: your physical body behind, your astral double has has replaced
Speaker 5: it on the on the other level. So you have
Speaker 5: what's called the etheric double. And the etheric double is
Speaker 5: somewhat representative or or a tissue copy, a transparent copy,
Speaker 5: if you will, of of of your physical being. But yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: the importance is that you you placed yourself there. I
Speaker 5: think the thing the important thing is to own uh,
Speaker 5: the experience, to own the environment, UH, to own up
Speaker 5: to the dream and to uh and and and to
Speaker 5: actually accept your your position there, so you're there. You
Speaker 5: you're in this level of consciousness. If you have not
Speaker 5: intended to have an event or meet someone or go
Speaker 5: forward or backward, you're kind of left to whose decision
Speaker 5: on what you're going to do in that state. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean you're not always going to find what you're
Speaker 5: looking for in a lucid dream. I mean you have
Speaker 5: a wish list which you've created with pictures on your agenda,
Speaker 5: and then you've used it for mapping to get there right,
Speaker 5: and then then you've gone into the dreamscape and you
Speaker 5: might not find what you wanted. Now, there are various
Speaker 5: reasons why can be disappointing, sure, but sometimes spirit knows
Speaker 5: better what you're ready for. I mean, some of the
Speaker 5: things I wanted my first dreamscapes were insanely grandiose. I
Speaker 5: was called back by a dream teacher. I said, this
Speaker 5: is this is not good. You know, we're were going
Speaker 5: to curb you for a while.
Speaker 2: You know, what do you mean a teacher, a dream
Speaker 2: teacher or a physical teacher.
Speaker 5: I had a dream teacher for a while. Somebody would
Speaker 5: actually help me in my dreams. And for a while
Speaker 5: she would would would help me h go places until
Speaker 5: I felt a little more secure going on my and
Speaker 5: and people say, well, did you conjure her? And I said, well,
Speaker 5: that might sound like it, but I didn't. I visualized
Speaker 5: her the same way I visualized where I want to
Speaker 5: go in my dream. So I visualized what kind of
Speaker 5: a kind of attributes I would need in a dream
Speaker 5: teacher or a dream guide. And then and then I
Speaker 5: refined it to where I could actually see her face,
Speaker 5: and then and then she was there. And then ultimately,
Speaker 5: like all good manifestations in visualization, I actually visualized actually
Speaker 5: having having found her. And then, indeed, finally when one night,
Speaker 5: when I rose above my bed, above the cabin, above
Speaker 5: the tree line, into the dark sky in the snowy
Speaker 5: mountain where I lived, I reached out my hand and
Speaker 5: there she was. She grabbed my hand, and I was
Speaker 5: no longer flailing about aimlessly like a fool in the
Speaker 5: night sky. But I had someone who said where would
Speaker 5: you like to go? And I said where can I go?
Speaker 5: She said no, she said, it's important to have the
Speaker 5: right questions, said the important. The questions, she said, at
Speaker 5: this point are more important than the answers. Wow, I said, whoa, whoa?
Speaker 5: She said, So choose wisely, and so I said, well,
Speaker 5: I would like to go someplace place that would would
Speaker 5: would show me things that that would be profound and
Speaker 5: and I could learn. So she started ticking me on
Speaker 5: walk through the woods. She said, now, you could do
Speaker 5: this during the day, she said, but we'll do it
Speaker 5: right now, and we'll show you how everything in the
Speaker 5: in the woods will teach you everything you need to know.
Speaker 5: She said, nature is our teacher, and this was her orientation,
Speaker 5: this was who she was. So this is the kind
Speaker 5: of teacher I got. So, so this is what we did.
Speaker 5: We walked in the woods, and we would spend hours
Speaker 5: looking at things crawling into holes in the in the
Speaker 5: in the in the woods and in the burrows, and
Speaker 5: hidden passages in the trees. And then she'd say, now
Speaker 5: what does this mean? What is this tullis? And I said, well,
Speaker 5: that little squirrel found a place to live. She said,
Speaker 5: you're not looking deep enough. She said, there's always more.
Speaker 5: She said, until you could ask the right questions, I
Speaker 5: can't help you find the right answers. And finally she
Speaker 5: turned me over to somebody else. She said, this is
Speaker 5: my teacher. He has more patience than I do. He
Speaker 5: will help and I said, but but I want you.
Speaker 5: I want you, And she said no, she said it's
Speaker 5: not working out. So I mean, but she was really
Speaker 5: good for me, and and and and Yeah. I think
Speaker 5: it's good to have a dream teacher.
Speaker 2: I like that idea that you didn't place that in
Speaker 2: your book, but a helper dream helper is great idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, As we're concluding, von, what should people be trying
Speaker 2: to achieve when they get to the point where they
Speaker 2: can do regular lucid dreaming. I've heard some people will
Speaker 2: use it for problem solving, creating scenarios where they're you know,
Speaker 2: perhaps interacting with somebody in a relationship and learning how
Speaker 2: the person will react or whatever. But talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about the the benefits of having the ability to
Speaker 2: lucid dream.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I think in a full blown lucid dream escape
Speaker 5: the way I practice it, I go somewhere and I
Speaker 5: do something.
Speaker 1: It's a great adventure.
Speaker 5: I call it the inner journey of the hero within.
Speaker 5: But it is your consciousness that takes the journey. Now,
Speaker 5: if we look at different ways that people analyze remote viewing,
Speaker 5: we can understand there are different aspects to lucid dreaming
Speaker 5: as well. Dreaming could be simply that you remain in
Speaker 5: a fixed location and you set up the lucid dream,
Speaker 5: but you don't actually leave. It's not an out of
Speaker 5: body experience. But the consciousness nonetheless reaches out, reaches out,
Speaker 5: And this is one of the great things of consciousness
Speaker 5: is that it doesn't need to go somewhere to see something.
Speaker 5: It can reach out like antennis, and your consciousness can
Speaker 5: reach out and find the answer. So I think finding
Speaker 5: answers to complex problems is wonderful. I always do this
Speaker 5: when I'm stuck on a book, and I will say, gosh,
Speaker 5: where do I go now? And I'll just think of that.
Speaker 5: I'll think of that, and then I begin to visualize
Speaker 5: that in terms of pictures, like what's chapter twelve?
Speaker 1: Where do I go? What do I do?
Speaker 5: And and I'll dream it. You know, sometimes somebody will
Speaker 5: come and say.
Speaker 1: You know, this is what I would do.
Speaker 5: I'll get little helpers. They'll come say this is what
Speaker 5: I would do? You know, And and the answers are
Speaker 5: there's a infinite number of bits of information out there.
Speaker 5: All of these thought forms are all like dancing around,
Speaker 5: and all you need to do is put up your antennas,
Speaker 5: your consciousness and connect you know it's connecting to it
Speaker 5: is a vertical alignment of one's consciousness.
Speaker 2: Uh. I really like the fact that you know you're
Speaker 2: this is a Hindu focused type of lucid dreaming, which
Speaker 2: is very ancient, and it might be the reason that
Speaker 2: you are able to get a room full of participants
Speaker 2: to actually lucid dream without except for the square answers, Well,
Speaker 2: they weren't meant to be in your class to be No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So hey, real great having you on the program. The
Speaker 2: books called programming your Lucid Dreams. My guess has been
Speaker 2: Von Braschlar. Uh, give us your website and how people
Speaker 2: can get a hold of you. Give us the details
Speaker 2: of your social media.
Speaker 5: Sure, it's a von Braschlar website dot com.
Speaker 2: Oh that's simple enough.
Speaker 1: Very very easy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you on social media? Are you on like
Speaker 2: Facebook and Facebook?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Facebook, backslash v Braschlar okay, And I have a couple
Speaker 5: of pages there. One is when it's for one of
Speaker 5: my books, and one of them is for my my
Speaker 5: my fiction books.
Speaker 1: I just a fiction as well.
Speaker 2: Right, And this is a third of your lucid dreaming books.
Speaker 2: Isn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And then it was in the middle there there
Speaker 5: was a scroll. It's like, what a scroll?
Speaker 2: And is it now available on Amazon? Yes, it is,
Speaker 2: so it came out in July.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, perfect it end of June. Very end of June.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: Very good.
Speaker 2: Okay, really easy to read, and it's a good book
Speaker 2: to I mean, you make it sound so easy. I'm
Speaker 2: almost jealous that you can kind of close your eyes
Speaker 2: and get into a locid dream. So I am definitely
Speaker 2: gonna give some of your techniques a try, especially because
Speaker 2: it's Hindu bass and you're a meditator, and it might
Speaker 2: if I follow your instructions, it might be easier for me.
Speaker 5: I hope I didn't put too many steps. I know
Speaker 5: there's a lot of steps, but if you look at that,
Speaker 5: you look at the Hindu approach, the Sutrus, I'm really
Speaker 5: complicated and I wanted to get away from.
Speaker 2: That that is complicated breathing.
Speaker 1: You're right, it gets you.
Speaker 2: Hey much success, Vonn, and thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Cliff.
Speaker 5: Good to see you.
Speaker 2: You know, I was looking at this book and there's
Speaker 2: a lot to really like about it, but I personally
Speaker 2: what I'm laying down it would be great to have
Speaker 2: a guided audio version of the book or a Lucid
Speaker 2: Dreaming audible program so that you can actually listen and
Speaker 2: go into the state. So I mean, I'm still working
Speaker 2: on Lucid Dreaming the depth of it, and I'm hoping
Speaker 2: to get somewhere soon, so I'll let you know how
Speaker 2: I do. But check out the book Programming Your Lucid Dreams.
Speaker 2: It's been out for a couple of months, so you
Speaker 2: can get.
Speaker 1: It out Amazon.
Speaker 2: Hey want to mention we do tours. We got one
Speaker 2: coming up in December. It's our Sacred Pyramids of Guatemala
Speaker 2: December first to the twelfth. Lots to really like about this.
Speaker 2: Not only doctor Lydia and Artural de Leon will be
Speaker 2: our guest, but we also have a number of shaman
Speaker 2: archaeologists and it's just a fantastic tour to consider. For
Speaker 2: more information, go to earth Ansents dot com forward slash
Speaker 2: Tours check it out. Any questions whatsoever hit me up,
Speaker 2: go to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter
Speaker 2: you at Gmail and I'll get right back to you.
Speaker 2: This is way. This is a great way to end
Speaker 2: the year. All right, that's it for this program. I
Speaker 2: want to thank my guest today von Broschler and his
Speaker 2: new book Loser Dreaming. As always the team of Gail
Speaker 2: tour Mark Foster, Faisal Bavar.
Speaker 1: You guys rock.
Speaker 2: All right, Take care of you well and we will
Speaker 2: talk to you next time. The ban
Speaker 3: Aga