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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Talk he Ethan, the show where we take

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<v Speaker 1>your calls and explore belief with curiosity and courage. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Christy Powell, and today I want to begin with something

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<v Speaker 1>that's been weighing heavy on my mind, not just as

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<v Speaker 1>a former believer, not just as a therapist, and not

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<v Speaker 1>just as a Texan, but as a citizen of this

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<v Speaker 1>complicated country we call home. It's no secret that American

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<v Speaker 1>identity and Christianity have long been tangled together, like roots

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<v Speaker 1>in dry soil. You can't really dig into one without

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<v Speaker 1>pulling up clumps of the other. This nation was founded,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in part on religious idealism, but let's be honest,

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<v Speaker 1>it was also founded on stolen land, on the backs

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<v Speaker 1>of enslaved people, and with a version of Christian faith

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<v Speaker 1>that comforted the powerful while quieting the oppressed. And those

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<v Speaker 1>histories aren't parallel, they're intertwined. We've all heard the phrase

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<v Speaker 1>Christian nation tossed out like a compliment, like a badge

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<v Speaker 1>of honor, But what does that really mean? What kind

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<v Speaker 1>of Christianity are we talking about? The gentle, justice driven

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus of the Sermon of the mount or the more

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<v Speaker 1>militarized flag draped messiah of Fox News and political rallies.

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<v Speaker 1>Because the Christianity that so often gets wrapped in red,

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<v Speaker 1>white and blue isn't about loving your neighbor. It's about

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<v Speaker 1>controlling them. It's about enforcing hierarchy, patriarchal, racial, economic through

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual authority. It tells us that God anointed this nation,

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<v Speaker 1>that white forefathers were divinely guided, and that any challenge

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<v Speaker 1>to this story is rebellion against the sacred. That idea

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<v Speaker 1>is not just nationalism. That is white Christian nationalism, a

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<v Speaker 1>belief system that says America belongs to white Christians and

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<v Speaker 1>must be ruled accordingly. And it's not fringe. It shows

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<v Speaker 1>up in our laws, in our school boards, and our courtrooms.

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<v Speaker 1>It showed up in the chants and crosses carried on

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<v Speaker 1>January sixth, and it shows up every time someone says

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<v Speaker 1>real Americans while quietly meaning straight white conservative Christians. Whatever

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<v Speaker 1>my issues with Christianity, I am not here to bash Christians.

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<v Speaker 1>I know there are people of faith doing the hard

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<v Speaker 1>work of justice and compassion. But if we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>have honest conversations on this show and challenge ideas that

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<v Speaker 1>hurt people, we need to call this what it is,

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<v Speaker 1>a toxic supremacist ideology hiding behind rhinestone crosses and cross

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<v Speaker 1>stitch scripture. This isn't just a theological disagreement. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>human rights issue. When religion is used to justify control,

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<v Speaker 1>to silence descent, to erase queer lives, to marginalize immigrants,

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<v Speaker 1>or to elevate one race and one worldview above all others,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not faith. It's oppression. And if your God needs

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<v Speaker 1>nationalism and racism to stay in power, maybe it's time

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<v Speaker 1>to rethink who or what you are really worshiping. So

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about it. If you've seen this fusion of

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<v Speaker 1>faith and power up close, I want to hear your story.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're trying to untangle your own beliefs from the

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<v Speaker 1>myths you're raised on, let's do that together, because turns

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<v Speaker 1>out the truth actually matters, and so do you. So

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<v Speaker 1>give us a call because the show is coming right now. Okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome everybody. Today is July sixth, twenty twenty five. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>your host, Christy Powell, and with me today is Sophia Spina.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to start by saying that we are already

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<v Speaker 1>sending love rings to those affected by massive flooding here

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<v Speaker 1>in the Austin area. Fifty nine confirmed dead and twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seven girls from Camp Mystic still unaccounted for at last check.

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<v Speaker 1>Our thoughts are certainly still with them. If you'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to be part of the solution, you can visit Bitley

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<v Speaker 1>Slash Austin Flood Fund to contribute to the five oh

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<v Speaker 1>one c three nonprofit Kerr County Flood Relief Fund set

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<v Speaker 1>up by the Community Foundation of the Texas Hill Country

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<v Speaker 1>and put your secular humanism to good work. Sophia, how

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<v Speaker 1>did y'all hold up during this recent weather?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we stayed home. We were under the orders

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<v Speaker 2>to say, like, don't travel anywhere unless you're leaving an

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<v Speaker 2>area of evacuation. We are quite close to a river

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<v Speaker 2>that did swallow a lot. We're up a hill, so

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of our friends and neighbors, you know, are

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<v Speaker 2>still in at least dicey situations. Yeah, it's just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of mind boggling to think about how suddenly this changed. Sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so it was. You know, for us, I'm extremely thankful

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<v Speaker 2>that we stayed home with our toddler and some meltdowns

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<v Speaker 2>on his part were the worst it really got. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very difficult storm.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, we fair to just find we were already

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<v Speaker 1>planning on kind of holding up for the weekend, not

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<v Speaker 1>feeling especially patriotic this year, and enjoying the extra time

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<v Speaker 1>at home. But it's definitely been very upsetting watching the news,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly the news coming out of this small summer camp.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, we're definitely sending out our lover rings. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to say again that that url is bit dot

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<v Speaker 1>lee slash Austin Flood Fund to contribute to the Kirk

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<v Speaker 1>County Flood Relief Fund. We really hope that you will

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<v Speaker 1>put your humanism into action and help us out.

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<v Speaker 3>All right.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, with that, I'll remind everybody that this is Talk Heathen,

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<v Speaker 1>a production of the Atheist Community of Austin. We are

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<v Speaker 1>a five oh one C three nonprofit organization that is

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism,

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<v Speaker 1>and the separation of religion and government. We are a

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<v Speaker 1>live call in show and we have open lines, so

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<v Speaker 1>get your calls in at five one two nine nine

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<v Speaker 1>two four to two or from your computer at tiny

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<v Speaker 1>dot c c slash call t H Sophia. We're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>bring in Richard here in just a moment to do

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<v Speaker 1>our Question of the Week segment. But I'm curious to

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<v Speaker 1>know who are you excited to talk to today.

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<v Speaker 2>I am excited to talk to people, particularly you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as you mentioned, it was fourth of July, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>patriotic holiday, which is complicated for a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 2>I myself, this might surprise folks, but I have always

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<v Speaker 2>described myself as a patriotic American, and I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of folks don't like that, or find that to

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<v Speaker 2>be strange to them, or don't like the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I deserve to be here too. So

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<v Speaker 2>I want to talk with people who, you know, who

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<v Speaker 2>actually who maybe want to discuss that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, no, well we'll dive into it. I'll co

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<v Speaker 1>sign that as maybe a vaguely disaffected, middle aged patriotic American.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm interested to hear your thoughts. I'm interested to

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<v Speaker 1>hear from the audience. And with that, let's get to

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<v Speaker 1>our Question of the Week segment and bring Richard in.

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<v Speaker 3>It's time for our Question of the Week session. I've

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<v Speaker 3>just realized that I'm repping. I did not do this

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<v Speaker 3>on purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>The merchants just in the rotation is part of daily life.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what we like to see.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, completely by accident as well.

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't even realize until I look down and saw

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<v Speaker 4>the Coteland and then thought, oh my, I'm wearing the

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<v Speaker 4>shirt as well. So it's sign for our toki a

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<v Speaker 4>new segments where we get into the questions of the week.

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<v Speaker 4>And last week we asked you Jesus last words wrong

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<v Speaker 4>answers only, and here are our top three answers. Number three,

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<v Speaker 4>no God required, Jesus last words, don't you know who?

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<v Speaker 3>My dad?

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<v Speaker 2>Is?

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<v Speaker 3>Pretty standard one there, guys, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad unless your dad is the devil, in which

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<v Speaker 1>case he won't bother.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't get it.

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<v Speaker 3>Unless, yeah, your dad whispering into you in the desert.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a bit weird, isn't it Okay? Numbers number two

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<v Speaker 3>is Miranda Reinsburg Jesus last words, Hey, remember supper last

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<v Speaker 3>night when I was talking about the bread and wine,

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<v Speaker 3>got interrupted before I could tell you all about the yogurt.

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<v Speaker 3>Why are you stabbing me?

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<v Speaker 1>It's really it's a one x play. I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>And the number one is Chuck gad Or Jesus last

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<v Speaker 3>words were you're rotten? Kids? Bring back that shroud all

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<v Speaker 3>the way through the centuries, stole it and got it

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<v Speaker 3>into France in the eleventh century, and hid it all

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<v Speaker 3>that time in between. Can't believe it. So the problem

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<v Speaker 3>for this week of the week for next week is

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<v Speaker 3>wrong answers only Jesus blank for your sins and your

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<v Speaker 3>best answer below the video and the comments, and next

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<v Speaker 3>week we will reveal the top three answers. So Jesus,

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<v Speaker 3>you too, I'm going to go with Christy first. Wrong

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<v Speaker 3>answers only Jesus blank for your sins is.

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<v Speaker 1>The obvious answer. But Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to

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<v Speaker 1>appease himself for your so called sins.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah standard, Yeah, Sophia.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I'm thinking about like a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>modern online Christian content I was seeing lately. So my

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<v Speaker 2>brain says, Jesus TikTok for your sins.

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<v Speaker 3>That is very appropriate. I've spent I've still spend a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of time over there, and wow, the TikTok crowd

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<v Speaker 3>is something else. Yeah, great answers from both of you,

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<v Speaker 3>and I want to see your answers. You who watched

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<v Speaker 3>the show, so in the comment section below the video.

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<v Speaker 3>I had great trouble saying that last week has just

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<v Speaker 3>slipped right off the tongue today. In the comment section

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<v Speaker 3>below the video, give us your answers. I'm going enjoy

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<v Speaker 3>the show. It's gonna be great. I will see you

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<v Speaker 3>all later, all right, Richard.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see you at the end of the show. For now,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go and pull up the crew camp so we

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<v Speaker 1>can thank everybody who helps us to put this show together,

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<v Speaker 1>who you know scrambled so quickly to give us access

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<v Speaker 1>to that relief fund and make sure that everything is

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<v Speaker 1>up and running despite the weather. Thank you guys so

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<v Speaker 1>much for all your hard work. All right, Sophia, you

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<v Speaker 1>ready to jump into our first call?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk to Gohan here in Texas. Go in. What's

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<v Speaker 1>on your mind?

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<v Speaker 6>Year? All right, how are you guys doing well?

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<v Speaker 1>No, all right, under circumstances, what's on your mind?

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I just want to say I forgot you guys

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<v Speaker 6>live in Austin, So I'm sorry for either you guys

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<v Speaker 6>or anyone you know who's going through So yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Very much aspreciate hanging we got for us today.

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<v Speaker 6>Really, just I want to discuss abortion. Christy. I've called

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<v Speaker 6>I think twice before and spoke to you about this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, I do remember a particularly bizarre hypothetical we

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<v Speaker 1>got into a while back about a hypothetical woman trapped

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<v Speaker 1>in a cabin with a police officer and a baby

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't her own, and whether she should be obligated

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<v Speaker 1>to breastfeed that baby. We don't have to rehash all

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<v Speaker 1>that now, but I do remember speaking to you in

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<v Speaker 1>some of the interesting places that we got Yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>but but no, what what did you want to ask today?

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<v Speaker 1>How should we frame all this?

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<v Speaker 6>Well, first off, that's a great memory. I had to

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<v Speaker 6>do my homework cross. I actually rewatched the videos where

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<v Speaker 6>I spoke to you guys before, Otherwise I would not

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<v Speaker 6>have remembered it. But you got it like spot on.

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<v Speaker 6>It's a very job. But if I could just really

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<v Speaker 6>quick start, are you guys fans of dad jokes? It

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<v Speaker 6>does apply to abortion?

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<v Speaker 3>That is a.

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<v Speaker 1>Cat if I've ever heard one.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm happy to give it a go. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I trust your discussions. I've never a discussed I've never

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<v Speaker 2>meat you before, but we'll go with it.

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<v Speaker 6>No worries. This one definitely like is a kind of

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<v Speaker 6>a pro life joke, but here it is dad and

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<v Speaker 6>a son are having a conversation. The dad says, son,

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<v Speaker 6>did you know an acorn as a tree? The son

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<v Speaker 6>says really, The dad says in a nutshell yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, fair enough. So is this an issue of personhood?

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<v Speaker 1>Of that question of like what is a fetus? What

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<v Speaker 1>is an embryo?

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so that's definitely a question involving personhood. When I

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<v Speaker 6>have these discussions on abortion, I like to usually skip

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<v Speaker 6>personhood and just go state straight to Bobby any since

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<v Speaker 6>most pro abortion people would say, even if the fat

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<v Speaker 6>is a person, it still doesn't deserve extra rights, So

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<v Speaker 6>I usually just get personal and just goes straight to

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<v Speaker 6>Bob Yet.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so what's the point of contention here?

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, So the thing I want to get into is

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<v Speaker 7>differences between organ donation, like forced organization, and difference between

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<v Speaker 7>that and abortion or organ donation.

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<v Speaker 6>If I refuse to give my organ to some child,

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<v Speaker 6>even if it's my child who is like having a

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<v Speaker 6>heart attack or a bad liver or a bad uni,

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<v Speaker 6>if I refuse to give that to them, they don't

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<v Speaker 6>die because I refuse to give it to them. They

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<v Speaker 6>die because they have a bad kidney or a bad

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<v Speaker 6>liver or bad heart x y Z.

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<v Speaker 1>But sure, And I don't want to be distracting or inflammatory,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think it's worth pointing out that you have

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<v Speaker 1>that right to refuse to donate your organs, even posthumously,

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<v Speaker 1>that even your corpse has the right to not donate

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<v Speaker 1>those organs those organs.

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<v Speaker 6>I agree. And then so after that, for an abortion,

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<v Speaker 6>if I have an abortion, the I'm just going to

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<v Speaker 6>say fetus, because not all abortions are going to be like,

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, maybe you can do an embryo. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 6>but I'm just gonna say fetus for now. If you

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<v Speaker 6>kill the fetus in an abortion, that fetus dies directly

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<v Speaker 6>from the abortion. It doesn't die because I had a

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<v Speaker 6>bad heart, there was a direct act of killing, or

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<v Speaker 6>an organ donation. There is no direct act of killing.

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<v Speaker 6>I can't be held accountable for somebody else's death because

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<v Speaker 6>I didn't help them. An abortion, I can be held

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<v Speaker 6>accountable because I didn't just not help, I actively kill.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a little bit of a question of did

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<v Speaker 1>you actually pull the lever on that trolley to send

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<v Speaker 1>it down that track. I get the agency part of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this. Does that change the calculus.

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<v Speaker 6>For you not not entirely. It's like whether you pull

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<v Speaker 6>the lever or you hired somebody else to pull the lever.

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<v Speaker 6>So that I hit some bi people inside of three, like,

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<v Speaker 6>if you hired somebody else to do it, you're so

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<v Speaker 6>held culpable for it. If you're the lover, you you

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<v Speaker 6>still are held culpable. So in this example of the

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<v Speaker 6>mother is not pulling the lever, she's hiring somebody else

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<v Speaker 6>to kill her kid.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so a couple a couple of questions really, and

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<v Speaker 2>I find this a very interesting hypothetical, to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think that's a weirdly question of like how

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<v Speaker 2>many steps away from something can we be before we

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<v Speaker 2>are not as culpable for it, because I think that

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<v Speaker 2>I think oftentimes within the abortion conversation, there's a discussion

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<v Speaker 2>of well, you know, you chose to get pregnant or

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<v Speaker 2>engage in things that would that would cause a child,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I appreciate that you brought up even if

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<v Speaker 2>it was your own kid, like it's kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>different situation. So I'm curious because if we live in

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<v Speaker 2>a world where illegal organ markets exis right and it's

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<v Speaker 2>not something that you know, we maybe talk about a

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<v Speaker 2>ton in the US, but it is something that that

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<v Speaker 2>does happen. And so I'm wondering if you ended up

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<v Speaker 2>in a situation where you were physically you know, someone

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<v Speaker 2>is relying on your body to exist. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty common analogy with abortion. So I'm just curious as

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<v Speaker 2>to what your answer is. You're tied to somebody else,

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<v Speaker 2>you will survive, probably, But if you were to say, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually not consenting to this operation. You know, I've

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<v Speaker 2>been kidnapped. I've been hooked up to this to this

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<v Speaker 2>other person to keep them alive, and you walked away,

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<v Speaker 2>that would be a direct action that caused the death

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<v Speaker 2>of the other person. So what is your take on

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<v Speaker 2>that one?

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<v Speaker 6>Sure? And I don't know how much you guys want

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<v Speaker 6>me to get into this because I called him before

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<v Speaker 6>about the violinist, but I actually this.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the violinist, right, This is the vis just a

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<v Speaker 1>different formulation of it.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, So if I refuse, like if I'm I'm just

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<v Speaker 6>gonna go to violin this wrap, if I'm tied to

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<v Speaker 6>the violinist, and I ready walk up and eventually the

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<v Speaker 6>dies because I didn't stay for the whole nine months,

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<v Speaker 6>because I have bottom on me, what do the.

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<v Speaker 2>Vie be twenty minutes, It doesn't matter I would.

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<v Speaker 6>Be directly killing them, But it does because the violinists

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<v Speaker 6>would end up dying of I think it was kidney

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<v Speaker 6>failure or something. So there violiness isn't dying because I'm

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<v Speaker 6>not helping them. They're already dying.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but yeah, that's kind of what it, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that, particularly when we're talking about abortion, you're

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<v Speaker 2>saying they're already dying, not necessarily. They're not necessarily dying.

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<v Speaker 2>If they get to use your body for the next

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<v Speaker 2>nine months, then they're not dying at all. Then they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to live where we're.

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<v Speaker 6>Talking about the violinists now, not a fetus, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because if we're thinking about you saying that they're

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<v Speaker 2>already dying because of their bad liver, no they're not.

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<v Speaker 2>They're using your body. They're not dying. They will be

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<v Speaker 2>dying if you choose to get up and leave.

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<v Speaker 6>Like if if I'm removed from the situation, what would

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<v Speaker 6>they like on their death certificate? What would it say

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<v Speaker 6>they died of? Would it say they died of kidney

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<v Speaker 6>failure or whether they say they died because GOHAN didn't help.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it would probably say kidney failure. But what

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<v Speaker 2>does an abortion have, Like, what do they list there?

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<v Speaker 2>They don't list because mom didn't help, you know, So

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<v Speaker 2>what do they write there?

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<v Speaker 6>As much as it's not because mom didn't help, it's

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<v Speaker 6>because they actively go in and poison the kid before

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<v Speaker 6>they take the kid out.

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<v Speaker 2>So that is that what they write.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that's of them. I mean, I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>the result. It's not just that the result is the same.

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<v Speaker 1>It's actually that the mechanism is the same because the

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<v Speaker 1>underdeveloped lungs and like the entire system of the fetus

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<v Speaker 1>is not able to support itself, is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>reliant in that same way. That's why the metaphor the

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<v Speaker 1>thought experiment works in this way. So we really haven't

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<v Speaker 1>reinvented the I'm sorry, we didn't catch anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry we didn't catch that. Could you repeat that?

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<v Speaker 6>Yes? Could I ask a question that might help y'all's

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<v Speaker 6>argument a little bit?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure?

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, So I think a question that I've been asked is,

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<v Speaker 6>what if we could take the fetus out without killing it,

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<v Speaker 6>like not directly kill it and let it die? Is

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<v Speaker 6>that kind of something like you would be would that

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<v Speaker 6>be a question you would want to ask or no.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it gets to kind of your initial thrust,

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<v Speaker 1>which was around sort of the agency of cause of

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<v Speaker 1>death and whether or not we're responsible for directly pulling

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<v Speaker 1>the lever or equally culpable for not pulling levers and

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing. I don't know that. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I'm being too literal and consequentialist about it, But

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<v Speaker 1>if the end result is the same I have, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>hard pressed to see that as like morally distinct.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I would also ask at that point.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, I would say, if that is a route taken

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<v Speaker 6>where you just don't kill the fetus but extract it

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<v Speaker 6>from the mother, but it's still alive when it comes out,

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<v Speaker 6>and then you just let it die, I would say

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<v Speaker 6>that's the same. That's very similar to like taking to

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<v Speaker 6>not helping the violinist, because you didn't kill the violinists

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<v Speaker 6>and then you just let them die. So I would

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<v Speaker 6>say that's similar. The only difference is this is your child,

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<v Speaker 6>and until it can get help from somebody else to

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<v Speaker 6>take care of it, it requires you.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I think looking at this a couple of things. One,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like a distinction about a difference. It feels

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<v Speaker 2>like it's an argument that can be made that these

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<v Speaker 2>are you know, at this point, we're splitting so many hairs.

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<v Speaker 2>We're living in a science fiction reality. When we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about having you know, if we can keep the child

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<v Speaker 2>alive outside of the womb and then they can slowly

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<v Speaker 2>die that way or something like okay, like maybe that's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing we could do. It doesn't feel super relevant.

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<v Speaker 2>So when you brought up your child living without you,

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<v Speaker 2>being able to live without you, so let's I feel like,

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<v Speaker 2>let's bring it a little back to reality. You can

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<v Speaker 2>see my silly dog over there in the background. When

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<v Speaker 2>we live in the system that we live in, we

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<v Speaker 2>have very long organ donation lists. You know, it's your child.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned you need to take care of them till

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<v Speaker 2>they can live without you. Sort of the vibe here.

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<v Speaker 2>And so supposing you are the only person who can

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<v Speaker 2>give your child that organ because it's a very long

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<v Speaker 2>wait list, because you are the only match. The other

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<v Speaker 2>parent can't do it, and you know they're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to survive unless you do. Are you killing your child

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<v Speaker 2>if you choose not to, I would say no.

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<v Speaker 6>And also, if you let the child die the feet

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<v Speaker 6>as sigh after you extract them, you're not killing them.

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<v Speaker 2>Also, Okay, then it just seems like life in general

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter in the scenario. It just seems like a

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<v Speaker 2>hypothetical shrug.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have to all created a moral framework with

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<v Speaker 1>this idea of removing the fetus and letting it die

394
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:55.559
<v Speaker 1>of quote natural causes, where you are increasing suffering while

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<v Speaker 1>calling it somehow more moral than the original conceptualization. And

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00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.480
<v Speaker 1>that just doesn't resonate for me.

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<v Speaker 6>Sorry, I think I paused too long, so I wasn't

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<v Speaker 6>one hundred percent done. I'm saying that you wouldn't be

399
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.799
<v Speaker 6>directly killing the child then, but as a parent, you

400
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.119
<v Speaker 6>have a responsibility to your child until someone else can

401
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:20.000
<v Speaker 6>take that responsibility, So you wouldn't be directly involved, you

402
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.039
<v Speaker 6>wouldn't be the direct cause of their death, but you

403
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.440
<v Speaker 6>would still you still have a duty to your child

404
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:29.200
<v Speaker 6>to not put them in a like, in an environment

405
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 6>that they can't survive.

406
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:30.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, we're kind of relating the argument a little bit

408
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.119
<v Speaker 1>and going to this notion that you are obligated to

409
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.920
<v Speaker 1>this violinist if that violinist is your genetic child, and

410
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.160
<v Speaker 1>so all of these other notions of action sort of

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<v Speaker 1>shift because we are now making the claim that you

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<v Speaker 1>do have a moral obligation to your specific children, which

413
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't you know, dismiss, but it is a different

414
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<v Speaker 1>way of conceiving of what we originally started on. Is

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00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that fair?

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<v Speaker 6>And can we make the violinists my child that's like

417
00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:04.720
<v Speaker 6>five years old? That way it con fits this situation

418
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:09.319
<v Speaker 6>a little bit better. So in that case, if I

419
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<v Speaker 6>put the violinist or my child who is five environment

420
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.960
<v Speaker 6>that like, let's say I stabbed their kidney or something,

421
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<v Speaker 6>So now they need me to be hooked up to

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00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:21.279
<v Speaker 6>them for nine months to make sure they don't die.

423
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.279
<v Speaker 6>If it's my child, I think that's appropriate because my

424
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.720
<v Speaker 6>childerves protect question.

425
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.799
<v Speaker 2>So say you know you have a genetic illness that

426
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:35.119
<v Speaker 2>will compromise your kidney. You have this child anyway, and

427
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.160
<v Speaker 2>you are the only person who could potentially donate an organ.

428
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:40.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at this sort of also like throwing this

429
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.160
<v Speaker 2>out there as we consider that we can't talk about

430
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>abortion in a vacuum, right. Abortion has legal consequences in

431
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.599
<v Speaker 2>the world that we live in. So not only are

432
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.200
<v Speaker 2>you morally responsible, because I would agree, like I'm a mom,

433
00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I have kids. I'm like, I think you'd be a

434
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.319
<v Speaker 2>pretty crappy parent if you're like, nah, I just don't

435
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:57.839
<v Speaker 2>want to get all those needles poked in me. Let

436
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.839
<v Speaker 2>the kid die, right, That's terrible morally. Should I be

437
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.559
<v Speaker 2>held criminally responsible for that? Because that's the world we

438
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:04.720
<v Speaker 2>live in here in Texas?

439
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:09.200
<v Speaker 6>I think you should be held criminally responsible for any

440
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 6>kid that you directly kill, unless you're at high risk

441
00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:14.240
<v Speaker 6>of severe horn.

442
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I think that a lot.

443
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.599
<v Speaker 6>If you have five year old kid who's running at

444
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:21.960
<v Speaker 6>you with a knife and for some reason, you have

445
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:25.640
<v Speaker 6>no other option other than lethal force of self defense,

446
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.240
<v Speaker 6>you can only use lethal force of self defense if

447
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.920
<v Speaker 6>there's a high enough risk of If you.

448
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Choose to have children then knowing they are going to suffer,

449
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.839
<v Speaker 2>knowing they're going to need organ transplants that they're unlikely

450
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.880
<v Speaker 2>to be approved for, I think you can make a

451
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 2>pretty good argument that you have chosen to make that

452
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:47.039
<v Speaker 2>child live and die a miserable life and suffer a

453
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>miserable death. You made those choices that led to that.

454
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.079
<v Speaker 2>They would not have happened had you not made those choices.

455
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Should we hold people who have children in spite of

456
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.880
<v Speaker 2>knowing that they have genetic disorders that would cause these things,

457
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.440
<v Speaker 2>which is a very real scenario. Should we hold them

458
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.240
<v Speaker 2>criminally responsible for those choices?

459
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.720
<v Speaker 6>So can I reask your question and that's favorable to me?

460
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:09.680
<v Speaker 6>Or is that too much?

461
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:13.960
<v Speaker 2>So long as we could like examine why we would

462
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 2>reframe it for sure?

463
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 6>Sure, Okay, if you want, I'm just going to rephrase

464
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:19.759
<v Speaker 6>it and then we can go back to the way

465
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.319
<v Speaker 6>you ask it. But to me, it sounds like would

466
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:27.240
<v Speaker 6>it be which one is better to like less criminal

467
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Speaker 6>offense to allow your kids to suffer or be the

468
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 6>direct cause of their death?

469
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Wait? Are you asking me allowing your child to suffer?

470
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:38.839
<v Speaker 2>So you're saying in this scenario, you are by choosing

471
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.200
<v Speaker 2>to have this child, I would say, by creating that suffering?

472
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Are we Are we still in that scenario where you

473
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:46.839
<v Speaker 2>have chosen this eyes wide open? Or are we in

474
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.599
<v Speaker 2>a scenario where your child is suffering and you choose

475
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.160
<v Speaker 2>not to kill them?

476
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:50.240
<v Speaker 5>Like?

477
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Can can you specify for me.

478
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.440
<v Speaker 6>My child is suffering? It seems like they're going to

479
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.680
<v Speaker 6>suffer for a week and then that's it and they're

480
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:03.000
<v Speaker 6>going to die after that it is less of an

481
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:06.680
<v Speaker 6>evil or less criminally bad that's not the right phrase.

482
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.640
<v Speaker 6>But less for me bad or less of an evil.

483
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:11.759
<v Speaker 6>So let your kids live and go through the suffering

484
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.359
<v Speaker 6>and go through life. The said of killing them before

485
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:16.920
<v Speaker 6>any of that happens, I agree.

486
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.079
<v Speaker 2>That's a totally different scenario though, Like I agree with

487
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.559
<v Speaker 2>if they're gonna suffer for a week and die, like, okay,

488
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.359
<v Speaker 2>But you're choosing to bring this life into the world

489
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.279
<v Speaker 2>knowing it will suffer and knowing it will die prematurely,

490
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 2>knowing that it is required to have this particular organ

491
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.279
<v Speaker 2>and you're doing it anyway. And then we add to

492
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.160
<v Speaker 2>this question, what if you could save them with your organs?

493
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:40.920
<v Speaker 2>What if you have them they have this genetic disorder,

494
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.079
<v Speaker 2>you refuse to give them the liver, so they're going

495
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:44.920
<v Speaker 2>to suffer and die. You made all the choices to

496
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 2>bring them into this world. You did everything you would

497
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:51.200
<v Speaker 2>be doing in this abortion scenario, and then you're going

498
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.039
<v Speaker 2>to let them die because you don't want to give

499
00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:57.119
<v Speaker 2>them your organ So you created the suffering too, and

500
00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.640
<v Speaker 2>you're choosing not to amend it. You're choosing to let

501
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.799
<v Speaker 2>them die. Here should that person be criminally liable if

502
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>you get a genetic test and you know your children

503
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.119
<v Speaker 2>will have this genetic disorder, and you do it anyway,

504
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:09.000
<v Speaker 2>do we arrest you?

505
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.839
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry, I miss this, did the question the first time.

506
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.160
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry about that, but yes, let me answer this

507
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 6>question directly. So, No, I don't think you should be

508
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:23.559
<v Speaker 6>held criminally responsible for not for putting your child in

509
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.480
<v Speaker 6>a situation like that where maybe you could help by

510
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.279
<v Speaker 6>taking extraordinary measures by donating your kidney. But I don't

511
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:36.640
<v Speaker 6>think any parents should be any parents should be criminally

512
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:39.480
<v Speaker 6>charged for not taking extraordinary measures to help their kid.

513
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.519
<v Speaker 1>It's hard to feel then that you are. It's easy

514
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>to believe then that you don't believe that pregnancy is

515
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>an extraordinary measure.

516
00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:49.880
<v Speaker 6>I mean, yeah, I wouldn't say that's I mean it's

517
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.000
<v Speaker 6>extraordinary best part of every single kid, Like every kid

518
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 6>has had to go through pregnancy.

519
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, every kid's parent has had to go through pregnancy.

520
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's something that maybe we have to

521
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.759
<v Speaker 2>point out because the kids that we see that have

522
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.079
<v Speaker 2>gone through it, that are alive are the ones who

523
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:12.319
<v Speaker 2>survived right. And while that is a majority, because we

524
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 2>live in a society that does have relatively advanced medical care,

525
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.960
<v Speaker 2>not every mom makes it through. Not every pregnancy goes

526
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.319
<v Speaker 2>to term. At this point, we are demonstrably arresting women

527
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:26.799
<v Speaker 2>who wanted the pregnancy and did have a medical procedure

528
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 2>they had to have to continue living, maybe for their

529
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 2>other kids. Like I think that, yes, it's common, It

530
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 2>does not mean it is not a major medical procedure.

531
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:41.799
<v Speaker 1>It's common, and you know, I take Gohan's point that, yes,

532
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 1>every person living had some experience of pregnancy, you know,

533
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.000
<v Speaker 1>on the receiving end of that benefit. But as you

534
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.039
<v Speaker 1>point out to Fia, that's a gigantic sampling error and

535
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.519
<v Speaker 1>one that we really need to be reckoning with here.

536
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.039
<v Speaker 2>So sorry, what did you say?

537
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.839
<v Speaker 6>Sorry, Christy, I've seen if Christy could expand on his

538
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.559
<v Speaker 6>point that, like, oh.

539
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.359
<v Speaker 1>Really, I was just sort of highlighting something Sophia it said,

540
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.039
<v Speaker 1>which is that it's a gigantic sampling error to say

541
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Speaker 1>that all people who are currently alive experienced pregnancy on

542
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.599
<v Speaker 1>like the receiving end, because, as Sophia pointed out, all

543
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:23.559
<v Speaker 1>of the people who didn't get borned were people who did.

544
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.759
<v Speaker 2>Not It's also kind of like like, let's compare it

545
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.039
<v Speaker 2>to another thing that's common but also can be difficult.

546
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 2>So this feels like a big jump to make. But

547
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:34.640
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, I'm going to do it because

548
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.839
<v Speaker 2>I think it illustrates the point for YouTube gods. I

549
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 2>will say, CSA, is that something? You know what I'm

550
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.759
<v Speaker 2>talking about here? Gohan? I yes, man, Okay, So a

551
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>lot CSA is actually extremely common. When in four girls,

552
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.640
<v Speaker 2>when in six boys are going to experience some level

553
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:55.559
<v Speaker 2>of CSA before they reach the age of eighteen. So

554
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.240
<v Speaker 2>I think it's imperative that we do something about it.

555
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.839
<v Speaker 2>I think it's important that we we talk about this

556
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>very seriously. It would be very easy to say, and

557
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:06.680
<v Speaker 2>I have heard people say this with their own mouths.

558
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>So these are real people that talking about it only

559
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:14.720
<v Speaker 2>makes it worse, and that really, like you know, everybody,

560
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 2>everybody who's there's so many people who do survive it.

561
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>It's side stepping the question of those who commit suicide.

562
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I just might have upset the YouTube us are saying that,

563
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.519
<v Speaker 2>but it's side stepping the questions of the massive impacts

564
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 2>it has on people's lives because it's stable to shrug

565
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:32.279
<v Speaker 2>and say, well, a lot of people survive. I would

566
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.559
<v Speaker 2>say that pregnancy and childbirth are very similar in that

567
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 2>they're common. There's things a lot of people go through.

568
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 2>And yet this is sort of ignoring the fact that

569
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:45.839
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people don't make it, that it's one

570
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.559
<v Speaker 2>of the most dangerous things that one can participate in,

571
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.000
<v Speaker 2>even with the highest standards of medical care, and that

572
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.880
<v Speaker 2>pregnancy loss and loss of children within the first year

573
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.519
<v Speaker 2>of life is not only you know, not that uncommon,

574
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>but it is. It's it's horrifying, it affects you forever,

575
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 2>and so to just say, well, a lot of people

576
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:10.319
<v Speaker 2>do it, it really is minimizing how impactful and epic

577
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:11.319
<v Speaker 2>this really is.

578
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.480
<v Speaker 6>So if Alcorn respond to that, I would say, yes,

579
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:21.200
<v Speaker 6>pregnancy is a dangerous measure, but my question would be

580
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.400
<v Speaker 6>how dangerous can it get before you're allowed to use

581
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.480
<v Speaker 6>lethal force and self defense?

582
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>And in Texas, I mean the mom can die. Let's

583
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.319
<v Speaker 2>say that's just we live in this state.

584
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>That's the thing that really is where we've drawn a

585
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of these legal lines, and that really does matter.

586
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Like if we were to talk about sort of the

587
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:44.240
<v Speaker 1>ethics of when or how should abortion ever be appropriate,

588
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.759
<v Speaker 1>and whether it should be freely available to all women

589
00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:50.319
<v Speaker 1>all the time, or whether it should be restricted to

590
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.680
<v Speaker 1>certain situations perhaps involving rape or incest or genetic abnormality

591
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:57.240
<v Speaker 1>or danger to the mother. Like I think those could

592
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:00.960
<v Speaker 1>potentially be worthwhile conversations, but they have to be couching

593
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.400
<v Speaker 1>and understanding of the world in which we live in.

594
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.359
<v Speaker 1>We can't just say some hypothetical ideal. We have to

595
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.400
<v Speaker 1>actually look at the way we value pregnancy in this country,

596
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 1>at the access to medical care that we have available,

597
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.440
<v Speaker 1>at the societal resources that are or are not being

598
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>offered to pregnant mothers, and a lot of people who

599
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.599
<v Speaker 1>find themselves in high risk pregnancy situation.

600
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.319
<v Speaker 6>So there is a high risk pregnancy and it is

601
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.759
<v Speaker 6>like your life is on the line, and according to

602
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:35.920
<v Speaker 6>what I've said before, if there's a high risk of

603
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.680
<v Speaker 6>severe harm, you're allowed to use lethal self defense.

604
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:41.839
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what's written, but that is not reality.

605
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 1>That's not the reality of many any pregnant people here

606
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.039
<v Speaker 1>in the state of Texas. And there are even more

607
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.559
<v Speaker 1>draconian laws across a lot of this nation, and I

608
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:53.559
<v Speaker 1>think that would be certainly the first thing that we

609
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.799
<v Speaker 1>would start with is that we need to amend those laws.

610
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 1>I think anytime we talk about we have to get

611
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>away from a strictly binary ideal of exactly what anybody

612
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>should do and rather create a suite of options that

613
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:15.920
<v Speaker 1>can be appropriate to any number of very intricate situations, and,

614
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.000
<v Speaker 1>as Sophia pointed out earlier, be very mindful about the

615
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 1>way we differentiate morality and criminality.

616
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that can. I I'm to jump in

617
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.960
<v Speaker 2>also and connect this a little bit, because I think

618
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.440
<v Speaker 2>it's really easy to say when we're just thinking morally

619
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.240
<v Speaker 2>things that we would be okay with, or things that

620
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.880
<v Speaker 2>would operate within our system of morality and integrity, and

621
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.319
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily realize that the impact that those things have. Say,

622
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 2>in general, we disagree with abortion, and so we do

623
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:48.799
<v Speaker 2>things like select policies that would make it illegal or

624
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:51.799
<v Speaker 2>harder to get with. These caveats maybe written into a

625
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:54.200
<v Speaker 2>law that can feel really good, that can feel like

626
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 2>it fits with our moral framework. But the law doesn't

627
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.240
<v Speaker 2>have our moral framework. We cannot write it specifically enough

628
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.000
<v Speaker 2>that we will agree with it in these moral ways

629
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.559
<v Speaker 2>in all circumstances. And so when we try to legislate

630
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of these feelings, this internal sense of integrity, we

631
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:14.880
<v Speaker 2>end up putting it at the end of a cudgel.

632
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.440
<v Speaker 2>The law is not a finely tuned instrument. The law

633
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 2>is basically a best kind of an ax. So whether

634
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.279
<v Speaker 2>or not you morally believe that a high risk pregnancy

635
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:32.319
<v Speaker 2>should be something that someone could consider having an abortion under,

636
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:34.640
<v Speaker 2>that's not really going to be reflected in the reality.

637
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.759
<v Speaker 2>That's an interesting moral argument, I guess, but it kind

638
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:39.839
<v Speaker 2>of doesn't really matter if that's still going to mean

639
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:42.960
<v Speaker 2>that we select things that make it harder for other

640
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.480
<v Speaker 2>people to get or harder for other people to get abortions,

641
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.720
<v Speaker 2>because the upshot of that will be death on the

642
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.200
<v Speaker 2>part of the mother. We've seen that happen again and again.

643
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.000
<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of nice to live in a world

644
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:55.960
<v Speaker 2>where we're like, the thing I prefer to happen would

645
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>happen the way I would prefer for this law to

646
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.039
<v Speaker 2>be interpreted, It would be interpreted that way. We really

647
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:03.160
<v Speaker 2>can see now that that's not the case, though, So

648
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:05.039
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm going.

649
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.839
<v Speaker 6>To just respond to you one thing Christy said, and

650
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:07.839
<v Speaker 6>one thing you said, Sophia.

651
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 2>But for sure, christ I know.

652
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.199
<v Speaker 6>Christy, I know you said, like, it shouldn't be such

653
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:18.639
<v Speaker 6>a black and white like there there should be some

654
00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:21.920
<v Speaker 6>room for our exploration. But I think whenever it comes

655
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:25.079
<v Speaker 6>to discussing killing a human organism, we need it to

656
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 6>be as black and white as possible. This is the

657
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.039
<v Speaker 6>line you can cross, this is the line you cannot.

658
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.679
<v Speaker 6>If you cross this line, when you're talking about killing

659
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:36.000
<v Speaker 6>another human organism, you've crossed the line. And that line

660
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.320
<v Speaker 6>needs to be as defined as possible.

661
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:41.280
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I very much appreciate that point of view.

662
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:44.159
<v Speaker 1>You know, we talk about these slippery slope type arguments.

663
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I do think that anytime the question is where do

664
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.360
<v Speaker 1>we draw the line, the answer needs to come down

665
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:53.320
<v Speaker 1>fucking somewhere. And I think I would put forward, based

666
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.559
<v Speaker 1>on what Sophia just said, that a idealized society would

667
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:01.400
<v Speaker 1>be one that removes criminality from the conversation and that

668
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:06.599
<v Speaker 1>puts these very complicated moral questions into the hands of

669
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:11.000
<v Speaker 1>pregnant people and their medical providers. How does that reality

670
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.079
<v Speaker 1>strike you? Is that not where you might draw your line?

671
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Go on?

672
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:16.719
<v Speaker 6>And this is kind of that was kind of leading

673
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.559
<v Speaker 6>into my question with Sophia because it sounded and correct

674
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.440
<v Speaker 6>me if I'm alongst with you, But it's sounded like

675
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 6>you were okay with what I said, except you don't

676
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:28.039
<v Speaker 6>think it's going to be practiced as said, and therefore

677
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.960
<v Speaker 6>you don't think it should be long that you're okay

678
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.880
<v Speaker 6>with the idea of it that you shouldn't be able

679
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 6>to kill another human organism unless there's high risk of

680
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.079
<v Speaker 6>severe harm, and that should be held consistent throughout every

681
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:39.000
<v Speaker 6>human organism.

682
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh No, I just didn't. I don't necessarily agree with it,

683
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 2>but I just didn't choose to argue with it in

684
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 2>that moment. I mean, I think that that's a totally okay.

685
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.519
<v Speaker 2>So that is such a hypothetical that I also would

686
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:51.840
<v Speaker 2>bring it down to, like I guess, you know, if

687
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>you're curious about my personal stance on it, I think

688
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.559
<v Speaker 2>that before a certain point, that point being viability outside

689
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:01.559
<v Speaker 2>of the womb, which I know is a squishy question,

690
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:05.760
<v Speaker 2>but that's where I personally would draw this line. I

691
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:07.880
<v Speaker 2>don't think there's such a thing as a moral like

692
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.559
<v Speaker 2>abortion itself is not a moral question. There are moral

693
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.639
<v Speaker 2>abortions and immoral abortions. Chances are how you go about

694
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:17.440
<v Speaker 2>it would sort of matter. So, for instance, an immoral abortion,

695
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:21.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe one in which you're at you know, you are

696
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:27.679
<v Speaker 2>in every way wanted pregnancy going forward, having like a

697
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>great situation, and then you choose to you know, abort

698
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the baby, which I yeah, I conceptualized as a baby

699
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.400
<v Speaker 2>because I've had kids, but not everyone has to in

700
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:42.880
<v Speaker 2>order to get back at your partner. You know, that

701
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.119
<v Speaker 2>would be I would say, an immoral abortion. It's not

702
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.519
<v Speaker 2>really about the abortion. It's about the motivation. It's about

703
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.599
<v Speaker 2>the fact you were doing this expressly to hurt people.

704
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I'm like, that's I guess it would

705
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:54.039
<v Speaker 2>be an immoral abortion. But like a moral abortion could

706
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.880
<v Speaker 2>be one where you have three or four kids already.

707
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 2>This is going to literally take food out of their mouths.

708
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.039
<v Speaker 2>You do not have the to support another child. You

709
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 2>don't have the time to support that child, and you

710
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:07.719
<v Speaker 2>may want it, but it's just not going to be

711
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.800
<v Speaker 2>reasonable for you to take care of that. If that

712
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:11.880
<v Speaker 2>is really the best option for someone, I'd say that's

713
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.119
<v Speaker 2>a moral abortion. So I actually I would say that

714
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.239
<v Speaker 2>there's not really like a line I draw on abortion

715
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:20.719
<v Speaker 2>itself beyond viability. And again that's my personal line. I

716
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.440
<v Speaker 2>did a quite deep study on the concept of abortion

717
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>for a while, and the place where I was the

718
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:30.920
<v Speaker 2>most surprised my opinion changed was actually in late term abortions,

719
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 2>because I thought I was going to be against those

720
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.440
<v Speaker 2>no matter what. The more I got into it, looking

721
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.760
<v Speaker 2>into when they actually happen, who actually gets them, and

722
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.280
<v Speaker 2>the circumstances that they go through. I was surprised by

723
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Speaker 2>how much I felt like those should be allowed. I

724
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>thought I would have a really hard line there. It

725
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.519
<v Speaker 2>turns out it's almost it's pretty much always a very

726
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:53.760
<v Speaker 2>thoughtful decision undertaken by doctors. Doctors oftentimes refuse to do

727
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.559
<v Speaker 2>late term abortions because they're like, no, I'm not comfortable

728
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>with this, this baby's viable, I'm not going to do it. Yeah,

729
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.239
<v Speaker 2>it's usually in really horrific circumstances where that was an

730
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:05.039
<v Speaker 2>incredibly wanted baby anyway, And but usually, I mean every

731
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.679
<v Speaker 2>single time I can think of, it's just I'm leaving

732
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:11.000
<v Speaker 2>room for a possibility that that's not the case. So yeah,

733
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.079
<v Speaker 2>I guess I've also been surprised by my own opinion

734
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:14.920
<v Speaker 2>on a person as time goes has been a bit

735
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:16.599
<v Speaker 2>of a rant. But you mentioned what I believed, so

736
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.320
<v Speaker 2>there it is.

737
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:22.119
<v Speaker 6>Well, I appreciate that. I think you're the first hosts

738
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:24.199
<v Speaker 6>I've talked to you on the various shows who has

739
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.440
<v Speaker 6>given a line other than first, And I understand it's

740
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.199
<v Speaker 6>not a hard line for you because you're still seem

741
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:35.000
<v Speaker 6>to be okay with late term abortion and certain circumstances.

742
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:39.599
<v Speaker 6>But I appreciate the honesty. And yeah, I would say,

743
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:42.960
<v Speaker 6>first off, there's no such thing as an unwanted kid.

744
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.199
<v Speaker 2>It's not true. That's not true at all. What are

745
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 2>you talking about. I know multiple people personally who are

746
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:54.280
<v Speaker 2>conceived through rape. I mean, that's just how is that

747
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.880
<v Speaker 2>possible that that's a wanted kid?

748
00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.719
<v Speaker 6>Somebody else would love that kid if they had the chance.

749
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.079
<v Speaker 6>I guarantee it.

750
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:07.280
<v Speaker 2>No, Okay, I highly highly highly recommend. Okay, I'm gonna

751
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 2>just positoring there. I'm sorry.

752
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Seconds in our foster care system, please.

753
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Exactly fifteen seconds in our foster ear system. Also, our

754
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:17.880
<v Speaker 2>adoption system has a lot of issues. Even if that

755
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:21.639
<v Speaker 2>kid is technically considered wanted by someone else, it doesn't

756
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.760
<v Speaker 2>mean that they deserve to use my body if I'm

757
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.960
<v Speaker 2>raped to have their own kid. First all, that's a

758
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:30.960
<v Speaker 2>really horrifying thought. And second, look up stories of adult adoptees.

759
00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Adult adoptees will talk about their experiences as the adopted child,

760
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:39.519
<v Speaker 2>and they're oftentimes horrific. They will actively say they wish

761
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.880
<v Speaker 2>their biological parent could have had an abortion. These are

762
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.360
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily solutions. That's kind of like saying there's no

763
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:50.639
<v Speaker 2>such thing as an unwanted street urchin into Kenzie in England.

764
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Somebody will put them up a shoot to have them,

765
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, clean fire flus. Somebody will use that kid

766
00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:59.280
<v Speaker 2>like that. That's really difficult at some point if we

767
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 2>extrapolate far enough, someone wants to use you to fill

768
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a hole in their life, maybe even pretend that that

769
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:08.199
<v Speaker 2>you know you're their biological mother. But that's not a solution.

770
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.320
<v Speaker 2>And I highly encourage you to even also look up

771
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:16.360
<v Speaker 2>the death rates for adopted children versus non adopted children,

772
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:21.159
<v Speaker 2>Like these experiences are different, and I'm not by any

773
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:25.360
<v Speaker 2>means saying every adopted family is bad and evil, but

774
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.599
<v Speaker 2>there is inherent trauma and adoption and it is made

775
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:31.320
<v Speaker 2>light of very easily, and I feel like we're kind

776
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:33.360
<v Speaker 2>of on the brink of that. So I really would

777
00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 2>be curious as to your thoughts if you kind of

778
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.639
<v Speaker 2>engage with those stories of adult survivors of adoption. And

779
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:40.280
<v Speaker 2>I use loord survivors because that's what a lot of

780
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>them use.

781
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:46.079
<v Speaker 6>So true things I've read that turnal ways study and

782
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:50.719
<v Speaker 6>that was honestly like a good source, like certain circumstances

783
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 6>of hey, this is how abortion improved my life, or hey,

784
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.000
<v Speaker 6>this is how abortion improved my family is like Xcellenz,

785
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:58.440
<v Speaker 6>there's a lot of stories like that in the turnal

786
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:03.559
<v Speaker 6>Way study. I'm like, abortion hasn't helped out people financially

787
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:07.679
<v Speaker 6>helped out faring these financially. I definitely think it can

788
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.000
<v Speaker 6>and it has, but I think there's a lot of

789
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:12.880
<v Speaker 6>evil that can also help out families. As far as

790
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.920
<v Speaker 6>getting medicare adult adoptees, I'm going to have to wait

791
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:19.480
<v Speaker 6>a couple of years. I have two adopted kids myself,

792
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:21.760
<v Speaker 6>and we'll see what happens when they get older. But

793
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.119
<v Speaker 6>for right now, I'm just going to try to be

794
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:25.000
<v Speaker 6>the best parent to know and that they deserve.

795
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.599
<v Speaker 2>So I almost feel even more Yeah, so I actually

796
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.400
<v Speaker 2>love that. I almost feel like even more so than

797
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:36.079
<v Speaker 2>because you're a parent of adopted children. The kids who

798
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.280
<v Speaker 2>have struggled and had the inherent trauma of adoption and

799
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>still do talk with and are close to their adopted parents,

800
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 2>it's because their parents started researching the system, and a

801
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of them mention, like these adult adoptees talk about how, yeah,

802
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.039
<v Speaker 2>their parents adopted them and then started to research the

803
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.119
<v Speaker 2>system and kind of realize some of these outcomes and

804
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 2>actually made their adopted parents better parents who had more

805
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.400
<v Speaker 2>of an understanding over they can from. So I get

806
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:03.079
<v Speaker 2>that it might hit like a little closer home because

807
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.440
<v Speaker 2>for me, I'm like the immediate thing I think whenever

808
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I learned anything about parenting, I'm like, oh no, did

809
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I completely mess up my kid already? Because I have

810
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:11.880
<v Speaker 2>a three known almost one year old, and I'm like,

811
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:16.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, right, they're so vulnerable. But I know it

812
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:19.119
<v Speaker 2>would be difficult, I'm sure because I just I go

813
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.320
<v Speaker 2>through similar difficulty. But that might actually be really good

814
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:24.840
<v Speaker 2>for you to look at too, because you have adopted children,

815
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>because there are parents who have done that and it's

816
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:28.440
<v Speaker 2>been pretty good.

817
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.400
<v Speaker 6>Right, I know, Like for me when my key turned one,

818
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 6>I was like, hey, we needed the kid is still alive.

819
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.239
<v Speaker 6>We did something right now and then But now as

820
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:41.000
<v Speaker 6>she gets old, I might get a little emotional, but

821
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:46.199
<v Speaker 6>she is she has two older siblings that a mom kept,

822
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.159
<v Speaker 6>So I know she's going to have abandonment issues grown

823
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:51.760
<v Speaker 6>up because she's going to be like, well, why did

824
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:53.679
<v Speaker 6>she get rid of me? What's wrong with me? So

825
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:55.760
<v Speaker 6>I know that that's going to be coming down the

826
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 6>line trying to keep an open relationship with the birth

827
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.760
<v Speaker 6>mom whole. That takes away some of the band issues.

828
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.920
<v Speaker 6>But you know what, whatever she has coming down the

829
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:10.280
<v Speaker 6>line for her will be there and we'll try a

830
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:13.840
<v Speaker 6>support her. But she's probably on some issues going down

831
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.559
<v Speaker 6>the line. But I think whatever issue she has, it's

832
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.320
<v Speaker 6>better than her being killed when she was in the room.

833
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:25.519
<v Speaker 2>I think that, I really I think that that's where

834
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:28.280
<v Speaker 2>these issues become so hard. And I think it can

835
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:33.760
<v Speaker 2>be easy to minimize the major impact that abortion can have.

836
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.320
<v Speaker 2>It's and just say like it's good all the time,

837
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:39.159
<v Speaker 2>and I believe in it all the time. It's also

838
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:42.920
<v Speaker 2>easy to minimize the major impact that I appreciate that

839
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:46.320
<v Speaker 2>you've read the Turnoway study that not having an abortion

840
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.719
<v Speaker 2>can have. I think it's I think one thing I

841
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.199
<v Speaker 2>do want to put out to you is that the

842
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.239
<v Speaker 2>way you love your kids, what you feel for them

843
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:58.199
<v Speaker 2>about them, is so often the way that women who

844
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.519
<v Speaker 2>have abortions feel about their already living children. It's not easier.

845
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.079
<v Speaker 2>They don't love their kids less than you love your kids,

846
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:08.199
<v Speaker 2>and they're still making this choice, which to me indicates

847
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:10.440
<v Speaker 2>it's more than just financial. You know, I think we

848
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:12.440
<v Speaker 2>throughout kind of when you're like, yeah, there may be

849
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:17.119
<v Speaker 2>financial benefits, but there's financial benefits evil things all the time. Okay,

850
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:19.800
<v Speaker 2>but let's talk about what the financial situation means for

851
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:25.119
<v Speaker 2>these particular families. You know, that might mean, particularly as

852
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.559
<v Speaker 2>as it can be hard to ensure that your children

853
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.199
<v Speaker 2>are fed and clothed, and we have less and less

854
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:33.800
<v Speaker 2>support for that over time, that might mean that you

855
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.159
<v Speaker 2>have active suffering on the part of these children who

856
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.639
<v Speaker 2>are already alive, who love you so much. And I

857
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 2>don't expect this to change your opinion at all, necessarily

858
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 2>because I think I really appreciate how much're engaging with

859
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:47.440
<v Speaker 2>this issue. But I think I put it out there

860
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:50.960
<v Speaker 2>to just underscore that, Yeah, I agree that it's great

861
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and wonderful that you get to have children you love.

862
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anything. I in no way want to

863
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:00.599
<v Speaker 2>discount that. But these women who do have abortions also

864
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:01.599
<v Speaker 2>love their kids too.

865
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. If I can just bottom line it all a

866
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.519
<v Speaker 1>little bit, I want to say that I really acknowledge

867
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Sophia's point about the possibility of a quote moral abortion

868
00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:15.719
<v Speaker 1>versus an immoral abortion, and where I really come down

869
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:19.159
<v Speaker 1>ultimately on all of this is that we ought to

870
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:23.079
<v Speaker 1>be removing the criminality of it and leaving those very

871
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:27.440
<v Speaker 1>complex moral decisions in the hands of pregnant people and

872
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:31.800
<v Speaker 1>their medical providers, who I hope are being taught through

873
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.440
<v Speaker 1>an incredibly complex series of medical ethics and are working

874
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.960
<v Speaker 1>very diligently to apply them in incredibly specific and difficult situations.

875
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:46.159
<v Speaker 1>And that we would build a society that offers support

876
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:49.760
<v Speaker 1>to these decisions and to these different types of opportunities,

877
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and that we take lawmakers who are incredibly disconnected from

878
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.639
<v Speaker 1>the situation and so often just looking for good sound

879
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:01.519
<v Speaker 1>bites out of the equation. Does that feel like a

880
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>place that you'd feel comfortable coming down? Is that a

881
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.760
<v Speaker 1>good bottom line for you as well?

882
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think that sometimes it surprises people how much

883
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:12.519
<v Speaker 2>I may morally oppose certain situations for abortion. That's a

884
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:15.719
<v Speaker 2>personal choice on my part, like that's how I feel

885
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.559
<v Speaker 2>about it. But because these are so complex, because these

886
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.079
<v Speaker 2>issues are so hard, because we know what happens legally

887
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.880
<v Speaker 2>and we see it more and more every day. When

888
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.719
<v Speaker 2>we've taken the ability to make that choice out of

889
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the hands of doctors, out of the hands of the

890
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.239
<v Speaker 2>women who are most impacted by this and put it

891
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 2>in the hands of the state that I feel like

892
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.280
<v Speaker 2>because of the complexity, then it needs to be something

893
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:42.599
<v Speaker 2>individuals and healthcare providers select, you know, not in spite

894
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:42.800
<v Speaker 2>of it.

895
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, So go on, can you kind of bottom

896
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.079
<v Speaker 1>line it for me and let me know where you're

897
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.280
<v Speaker 1>at here at the end of this call.

898
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:52.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I would say I brought up points four in

899
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.400
<v Speaker 6>favor of abortion for a financial reasons. I know a

900
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:58.000
<v Speaker 6>lot of the times it's more how cannot feed the

901
00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:59.840
<v Speaker 6>rest of my family, or even for the kid, it's

902
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:02.519
<v Speaker 6>this kid is going to suffer. I love this kid

903
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:04.199
<v Speaker 6>so much. I don't want them to go through with

904
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.000
<v Speaker 6>the suffering. Let me and their suffering now understand that.

905
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 6>But I also understand a lot of evil in the

906
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:13.719
<v Speaker 6>world has been done out of positive thoughts. For Kude,

907
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:15.960
<v Speaker 6>I think there's a line in it from Pirates of

908
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.760
<v Speaker 6>the Caribbean, like, do you guys remember that movie? It's yeah,

909
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.920
<v Speaker 6>I definitely remember that movie.

910
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.199
<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of stories about that movie.

911
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:30.239
<v Speaker 6>A lot a lot of good things are paid like

912
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:33.199
<v Speaker 6>it pretty much just the road to hell is paid

913
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.880
<v Speaker 6>with good intentions. So like doing evil things like killing

914
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.199
<v Speaker 6>your kids can be done from a point of love,

915
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.320
<v Speaker 6>but in the end that act is still evil.

916
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:44.760
<v Speaker 2>And here's something I would I would I would say,

917
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.199
<v Speaker 2>I fully agree, Oh sorry ahead, I fully agree with

918
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.760
<v Speaker 2>you that I love quotes like that. I fully agree

919
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.119
<v Speaker 2>with you that a lot of good things can be

920
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.280
<v Speaker 2>done out of evil. I think that's exactly how I

921
00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 2>would describe our current abortion laws. There are things people

922
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:03.519
<v Speaker 2>who feel an immense amount of stress at the concept

923
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 2>of abortion, who do not, who feel it's doing something evil.

924
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:11.239
<v Speaker 2>But as a result, we have created a situation where

925
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:15.159
<v Speaker 2>women and their doctors cannot make choices, and women are

926
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:20.800
<v Speaker 2>dying or women are being permanently incapable of having children

927
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.119
<v Speaker 2>because they go through this really horrific process. Like, these

928
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.800
<v Speaker 2>are laws that I think may have been made with

929
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:32.360
<v Speaker 2>some very good intentions, probably out of love. And I mean,

930
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:34.679
<v Speaker 2>I think it's it's it's I love that. I love

931
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:38.320
<v Speaker 2>that that that line. But yeah, I would apply it

932
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>to that too.

933
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, when we get into the like deontology

934
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:46.840
<v Speaker 1>versus utilitarianism type situation and debate, we do have an

935
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.519
<v Speaker 1>obligation to descend into the particulars and actually see what

936
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.079
<v Speaker 1>is happening. And we can see very clearly in the

937
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 1>statistics since the DABS decision that market harm is being

938
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:01.320
<v Speaker 1>caused particularly to pregnant when and then so it's uh,

939
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:04.440
<v Speaker 1>it's definitely a concern. Go on, I really appreciate your

940
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.239
<v Speaker 1>call and you being willing to descend into something.

941
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and it was a very nice call. Sorry, I

942
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.559
<v Speaker 6>got a little emotional there.

943
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

944
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:21.719
<v Speaker 6>I also I feel like, yeah, of course, I mean,

945
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.880
<v Speaker 6>you have kids. The idea that like either half of humanity,

946
00:49:26.039 --> 00:49:28.079
<v Speaker 6>not half, but like a million of humanity is being

947
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.760
<v Speaker 6>killed in America or a million pregnant moms are being

948
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.159
<v Speaker 6>forced to go through something they don't want. It's a

949
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.280
<v Speaker 6>bit either I'm right I'm saving kids, or I'm wrong

950
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.719
<v Speaker 6>and I'm hurting million. As a woman, it's a it's

951
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:42.679
<v Speaker 6>a big question. I really got to try and make

952
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 6>sure I have as good of understanding as this as

953
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 6>I can get. I think discussing it with people who

954
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:51.199
<v Speaker 6>disagree with me is probably the best way to go.

955
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:53.760
<v Speaker 6>Reading things like the turn Away study, and one thing

956
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:56.280
<v Speaker 6>I was surprised with with the turn Away study was

957
00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 6>it's said like it actually showed data for how I'm

958
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:01.360
<v Speaker 6>going to say pro life walls.

959
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I know you're not going to agree with that, but

960
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:05.320
<v Speaker 2>it's the term we use, you know.

961
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:10.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, like how it actually does affect. Like one thing

962
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:12.280
<v Speaker 6>I keep hearing you is that all these laws won't

963
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 6>stop one from having abortions. It actually does has a

964
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.800
<v Speaker 6>very real effect. I think overturning throw magnify that even more.

965
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:22.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you're actually right, you know, like I

966
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like we could go on talking for days. This

967
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:26.760
<v Speaker 2>is a very interesting conversation. But yeah, I just I

968
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:29.880
<v Speaker 2>really appreciate the all right.

969
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:31.519
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for your time.

970
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:33.119
<v Speaker 6>And it's been a very good time.

971
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys, Thank you. All right. Well, I do

972
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:40.599
<v Speaker 1>want to remind people that bat Cruise tickets are still available,

973
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:43.800
<v Speaker 1>But rather than jumping into all of those different places

974
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:46.159
<v Speaker 1>that you can donate and support the organization, I just

975
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:50.480
<v Speaker 1>want to remind people again about bitt lea slash Austin

976
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Flood Fund, where you can contribute to the five oh

977
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:57.119
<v Speaker 1>one c three nonprofit Kerr County Flood Relief Fund that

978
00:50:57.199 --> 00:50:59.760
<v Speaker 1>was set up by the Community Foundation of the Texas

979
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Hill Country. And before we jump into our next caller,

980
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:08.400
<v Speaker 1>let's go ahead and thank our incredible top five patrons. Sophia,

981
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.239
<v Speaker 1>you want to do the honors for us this week?

982
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, give me one second too, Yes, they're there. I'm sorry.

983
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 2>I was really absorbed with that call and I was

984
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.840
<v Speaker 2>like I should still down. Okay, So our top five

985
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:29.440
<v Speaker 2>patrons number one Oops all Singularity, number two dingle Berry Jackson,

986
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:35.119
<v Speaker 2>number three Coleevi, Helvetti, number four Ja Carlton, and number

987
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.360
<v Speaker 2>five Hell's Bells.

988
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Seeing her on the list.

989
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:41.159
<v Speaker 2>Nice. Yeah, there's some names in here that I'm like, oh,

990
00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:42.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm less familiar with, so it's fun to see shake

991
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:47.480
<v Speaker 2>up a little bit. Yeah, honorable mention Tod vor Valjean,

992
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>which I'm I'm kind of saying, like Jean Valjean from

993
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.039
<v Speaker 2>'s like that I think has to.

994
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Be the way that you do it.

995
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:54.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

996
00:51:55.360 --> 00:52:00.559
<v Speaker 1>Four, So okay, let's probably demonetized. Yeah, any dot c

997
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:04.519
<v Speaker 1>sly sash Patreon t if you would like to join

998
00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:08.760
<v Speaker 1>us as a Patreon subscriber. And with that, let's let's

999
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:11.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of keep the conversation going by talking to Anne

1000
00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:15.639
<v Speaker 1>in California, who has another view on abortion and what's

1001
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 1>on your mind.

1002
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:20.480
<v Speaker 5>Hello Christy, Hello Sophia, how are you today?

1003
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:21.199
<v Speaker 3>Doing all right?

1004
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Thank you?

1005
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:21.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1006
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Doing pretty well?

1007
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:24.599
<v Speaker 5>Good?

1008
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 6>Good?

1009
00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Well.

1010
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:31.639
<v Speaker 5>I'm calling in as someone I have been pregnant three

1011
00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:35.079
<v Speaker 5>times in my life, and I made a different decision

1012
00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:41.920
<v Speaker 5>each time. So I know personal experience doesn't necessarily amount

1013
00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:44.199
<v Speaker 5>to expertise, but do you.

1014
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Think it is important to enter into this space with

1015
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:50.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we talked to so many folks who I

1016
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.079
<v Speaker 1>won't say don't have any dog in this fight, but

1017
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:56.400
<v Speaker 1>who don't have a uterus, who have never had a

1018
00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:59.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, congenital condition or been faced with that like

1019
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:03.119
<v Speaker 1>life life of the mother, life of the fetus type

1020
00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:06.800
<v Speaker 1>of decision. So I do really appreciate the thoughts of

1021
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 1>somebody who has been in experiences related to pregnancy. So

1022
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:13.119
<v Speaker 1>sorry for that preamble, but please go on in.

1023
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:18.440
<v Speaker 5>Okay, okay, Well, my first pregnancy was I gave the

1024
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:26.000
<v Speaker 5>baby up for adoption. I was impregnated non consensually, and

1025
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:30.480
<v Speaker 5>I didn't know what to do. I was eighteen years old,

1026
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:34.199
<v Speaker 5>just you know, a girl with nine siblings from a

1027
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:37.320
<v Speaker 5>Catholic family, and I didn't know what to do. I

1028
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:39.679
<v Speaker 5>was scared. I'm like, well, I can't get an abortion.

1029
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:42.320
<v Speaker 5>There's no way I could keep it because I was

1030
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.639
<v Speaker 5>eighteen and my parents said that if I kept it,

1031
00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:48.000
<v Speaker 5>I wouldn't be able to live in their house anymore.

1032
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:50.239
<v Speaker 5>So they were going to throw me out and I

1033
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 5>had nowhere to go. I had no money, I had nothing.

1034
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:58.280
<v Speaker 5>And so my final decision was, Okay, I'll give the

1035
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.960
<v Speaker 5>baby up for adoption. And I felt really good about

1036
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.119
<v Speaker 5>that decision, so because I thought, I thought, you know what,

1037
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:08.199
<v Speaker 5>you know, I you know, it's the best thing for

1038
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.239
<v Speaker 5>the baby, and you know, and I'm not gonna lie.

1039
00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:14.119
<v Speaker 5>I I was not ready for that role. I wanted to,

1040
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:18.320
<v Speaker 5>you know, have a few years of being young, so so,

1041
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:21.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, but I still feel that it was the

1042
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.840
<v Speaker 5>best decision at the time. God, there's so much So

1043
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:29.440
<v Speaker 5>I went through this Catholic adoption agency and because it

1044
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.199
<v Speaker 5>was all I knew, Like I didn't. I wasn't even

1045
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.760
<v Speaker 5>sure you even believed in that stuff anymore. But I

1046
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:37.039
<v Speaker 5>was like, well, you just stick with what you know.

1047
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:39.719
<v Speaker 5>And I was raised very Catholic. F I'm like, Okay,

1048
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:43.119
<v Speaker 5>that Catholic adoption agency was the port in the storm

1049
00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:46.559
<v Speaker 5>for me that I went through, and you know, I

1050
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.800
<v Speaker 5>then the time came I had the baby. I chose

1051
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 5>the parents before before she was born. I had a

1052
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:57.000
<v Speaker 5>meeting with them. They're very nice people, but I'm really nervous.

1053
00:54:57.079 --> 00:55:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, oh no, like just to affirm that I really

1054
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:07.000
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you sharing your story even so far, like even

1055
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:09.639
<v Speaker 2>so far, there's perspectives in it that are great and

1056
00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:13.599
<v Speaker 2>that are so valuable. So and I can tell you

1057
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I can't really speak for you, Christy, but I have

1058
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.920
<v Speaker 2>a hunch you'll agree that we make the best decisions

1059
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:23.639
<v Speaker 2>we can at that time. And so I absolutely can

1060
00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:26.039
<v Speaker 2>see how as an eighteen year old you're like, what

1061
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:28.400
<v Speaker 2>do I do here? You know, this is a huge,

1062
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:33.000
<v Speaker 2>huge decision, and you know so so just so you

1063
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:34.559
<v Speaker 2>know in case you were thinking, am I going to

1064
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:38.760
<v Speaker 2>be judged for this zero amount of judgment from anywhere here?

1065
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:40.480
<v Speaker 2>And I fully believe you were. You were doing your

1066
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:41.239
<v Speaker 2>best at every point.

1067
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:41.519
<v Speaker 5>Yep.

1068
00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Me and Carl Rogers would co sign, Please keep going?

1069
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:53.559
<v Speaker 5>Okay, Okay, where was I? Okay? I chose the parents

1070
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:57.440
<v Speaker 5>and everything, and I had the baby, but I was

1071
00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:01.159
<v Speaker 5>not prepared for I thought there's going to be some emotion.

1072
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:03.960
<v Speaker 5>But I was in the hospital for a couple of

1073
00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:06.280
<v Speaker 5>days with her, and you know, I only got to

1074
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:08.880
<v Speaker 5>hold her for a couple of minutes every evening, But

1075
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:11.400
<v Speaker 5>every time I held her, I just I sobbed. I

1076
00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:16.039
<v Speaker 5>just it was so hard. It was just so so hard.

1077
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:16.639
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1078
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:20.559
<v Speaker 5>And then on that yeah, and then the last day

1079
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:26.440
<v Speaker 5>in the hospital, when the adopted parents were on their

1080
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.599
<v Speaker 5>way to pick her up, they asked me if I

1081
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:30.920
<v Speaker 5>wanted to hold her one last time, and I couldn't

1082
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:34.079
<v Speaker 5>do it. I couldn't do it. It was so hard.

1083
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:36.639
<v Speaker 5>I was like, no, if I hold her one last time,

1084
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:38.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to want to let her go. And

1085
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:42.840
<v Speaker 5>I've already made this decision, and you know, and and

1086
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:45.360
<v Speaker 5>I knew if if I had switched and said no,

1087
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:48.360
<v Speaker 5>I'm going to keep it, I'd be screwed. So you know,

1088
00:56:48.639 --> 00:56:51.159
<v Speaker 5>the only thing I could do was like, I leave

1089
00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:54.119
<v Speaker 5>the hospital without holding her one last time. And I

1090
00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:57.039
<v Speaker 5>don't feel like I was getting rid of her or

1091
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 5>abandoning her in any way. But I do feel sometimes

1092
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:04.920
<v Speaker 5>that these pro life people, when they talk about it,

1093
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.559
<v Speaker 5>they kind of act as if it's always just you know,

1094
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:11.639
<v Speaker 5>a mother, you know, a woman, just you know, getting

1095
00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:13.840
<v Speaker 5>rid of a child. And they seem to have this

1096
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:18.000
<v Speaker 5>casual attitude about adoption, Oh, you know, just give it

1097
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.360
<v Speaker 5>up for adoption. Well, as you you were talking earlier,

1098
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:26.000
<v Speaker 5>do you know the adoption system is not great, and

1099
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:33.079
<v Speaker 5>the foster care systems is horrible, and I just I

1100
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:36.400
<v Speaker 5>guess I'm saying is like pro life people really need

1101
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.239
<v Speaker 5>to think about what it means. And I know there's

1102
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:44.000
<v Speaker 5>all different kinds of cases where a child is taken

1103
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.039
<v Speaker 5>from a parent. Sometimes they you know, they give it

1104
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:50.559
<v Speaker 5>up for adoption. Sometimes maybe the child gets taken away

1105
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:55.400
<v Speaker 5>from them for whatever reason. Sometimes you know, or they'll

1106
00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:58.239
<v Speaker 5>drop it off at a fire station or something. But

1107
00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:01.880
<v Speaker 5>they're all hard and they're you know, they're hard on

1108
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:04.320
<v Speaker 5>on the person doing that, and you know, and they

1109
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.239
<v Speaker 5>can be hard for the kids. And what go Anne

1110
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:10.719
<v Speaker 5>was talking about earlier about I guess an adopted daughter

1111
00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:15.679
<v Speaker 5>or something. But he's saying, oh, you know, he knows

1112
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:18.360
<v Speaker 5>that he's going to have to, you know, help her

1113
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.280
<v Speaker 5>when she starts asking questions about why did my mom

1114
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 5>get rid of me?

1115
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:22.000
<v Speaker 1>What?

1116
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.360
<v Speaker 5>You know, what did I do wrong? And I'm like, well,

1117
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:29.960
<v Speaker 5>what you know? Does she know the circumstances because I

1118
00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:32.800
<v Speaker 5>didn't get the whole story about it because I was,

1119
00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:38.000
<v Speaker 5>you know, chatting with the call screener. But but my

1120
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:42.559
<v Speaker 5>daughter's adoptive parents told her that, you know, your mother,

1121
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:44.960
<v Speaker 5>she was just she was a young girl, and she

1122
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.440
<v Speaker 5>was very scared and she was very confused, and she

1123
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:50.199
<v Speaker 5>wanted to do what was best for you or what

1124
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:52.280
<v Speaker 5>you know, or what she felt was best for you,

1125
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:55.920
<v Speaker 5>and so you know, yeah, she gave you to us.

1126
00:58:56.039 --> 00:59:00.159
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, no, I very much appreciate that story. I'm

1127
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:03.800
<v Speaker 1>interested in your other experiences with pregnancy and how that

1128
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:07.400
<v Speaker 1>might kind of inform you in these questions of the

1129
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:10.840
<v Speaker 1>criminality of abortion or any other thoughts you might want

1130
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:12.599
<v Speaker 1>to impart to us before that.

1131
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:17.280
<v Speaker 2>I also just want to acknowledge from a human perspective

1132
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:19.519
<v Speaker 2>that I actually got a little emotional as you're talking

1133
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:25.280
<v Speaker 2>about holding your baby and how you know I've had

1134
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:29.840
<v Speaker 2>to and I remember being asked at the hospital like okay,

1135
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:32.760
<v Speaker 2>so you're taking your baby home, like, you know, just

1136
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to clarify that that there wasn't an adoption agreement in place,

1137
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:41.639
<v Speaker 2>and just how how strong you must have been, because

1138
00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:46.440
<v Speaker 2>even hearing about it, I'm like crumble inside. So I'm

1139
00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:49.239
<v Speaker 2>just acknowledging that and appreciating that you're sharing.

1140
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:49.679
<v Speaker 6>Oh.

1141
00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you see it, but there's someding

1142
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:54.840
<v Speaker 2>you love rings on the screen. Yeah, So how much

1143
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.159
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate that, and how you know, we never know

1144
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:01.239
<v Speaker 2>who needs our story, and so someone listening to that story,

1145
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:02.880
<v Speaker 2>as hard as I'm sure it is to share a

1146
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.079
<v Speaker 2>lot of the time, you know, if it can just

1147
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:08.719
<v Speaker 2>soften their heart toward others who are going through something similar,

1148
01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I just appreciate that so much.

1149
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:13.960
<v Speaker 5>Oh, thank you. I didn't mean to make you emotional.

1150
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:26.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry, that's okay, Okay, So Christy, you asked about

1151
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:28.400
<v Speaker 5>my other experiences.

1152
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or really just what your experiences have taught you

1153
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:36.480
<v Speaker 1>about this question of abortion and the morality or the

1154
01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:40.000
<v Speaker 1>criminality of it all, and what you might recommend. What

1155
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:44.039
<v Speaker 1>is your sort of is ought for those watching about

1156
01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:46.119
<v Speaker 1>how we ought to be thinking about abortion.

1157
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:54.199
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean, again, it's another personal experience. But you know,

1158
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:56.960
<v Speaker 5>I because I did have eventually have my son with

1159
01:00:57.079 --> 01:01:00.400
<v Speaker 5>the father of the fetus that I had an abortion from.

1160
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:06.280
<v Speaker 5>But I mean, my opinion about it is that Roe v.

1161
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:09.800
<v Speaker 5>Wade should have been law because I think I think

1162
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:13.519
<v Speaker 5>Roe v. Wade it's like up to viability unless there's

1163
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:18.800
<v Speaker 5>something wrong. And if people want to be pro life

1164
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:21.920
<v Speaker 5>and they want to prevent women from getting abortions, well

1165
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:23.639
<v Speaker 5>what are they doing to help?

1166
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, I don't like to engage in what about

1167
01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:30.280
<v Speaker 1>it isn't But you're yeah, you definitely highlight a really

1168
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:34.239
<v Speaker 1>important point here, because if the pro life movement wants

1169
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.920
<v Speaker 1>to be invested in increasing the well being and the

1170
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:41.320
<v Speaker 1>number of people being born, then there are definitely some

1171
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.960
<v Speaker 1>much more efficient and effective ways of going about that process.

1172
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:48.639
<v Speaker 1>It does raise some very interesting questions about the motivation

1173
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:52.480
<v Speaker 1>of the pro life movement and its ties to evangelicalism.

1174
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean there's a lot to be said going down

1175
01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:55.840
<v Speaker 1>that road.

1176
01:01:56.480 --> 01:02:01.199
<v Speaker 5>Right, Yes, there is there's a lot to it. I mean, personally,

1177
01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:04.480
<v Speaker 5>I think that you know, I guess I'm on the safe,

1178
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.800
<v Speaker 5>rare and legal, you know thing where like I believe

1179
01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:13.119
<v Speaker 5>in I believe in proper sex education. I believe in

1180
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:18.360
<v Speaker 5>freely available contraception, so people, you know, they have information

1181
01:02:18.679 --> 01:02:22.480
<v Speaker 5>and they have protection not just from you know, pregnancy,

1182
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:26.039
<v Speaker 5>but from diseases too. But if that doesn't work out

1183
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:30.559
<v Speaker 5>and you and you know, you know, say you do

1184
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:33.599
<v Speaker 5>use failed birth control and you get pregnant and you

1185
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:36.360
<v Speaker 5>don't want to keep it, then yeah, I think, you know,

1186
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:41.320
<v Speaker 5>within the first twenty or so weeks what the Roby Wade.

1187
01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:43.639
<v Speaker 1>Was, uh No, I mean I definitely co signed all

1188
01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:45.760
<v Speaker 1>of these wishless items and just kind of want to

1189
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:48.960
<v Speaker 1>add on to it building a society where we actually

1190
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:53.119
<v Speaker 1>like respect the sexual and bodily autonomy of young women,

1191
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean basic feminist ideals here would really

1192
01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:57.840
<v Speaker 1>change the conversation.

1193
01:02:58.400 --> 01:02:58.599
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1194
01:02:58.599 --> 01:03:00.440
<v Speaker 2>I think the thing that stands out to me as

1195
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:03.199
<v Speaker 2>you're saying this is that we know how to eliminate abortion,

1196
01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Like it's the things you just listed. We know how

1197
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:09.440
<v Speaker 2>to make it so rare that it is almost just

1198
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.920
<v Speaker 2>completely negligible. It is sex education, it is free contraceptives.

1199
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.440
<v Speaker 2>It is ensuring that we talk about things like consent.

1200
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.400
<v Speaker 2>It's ensuring that we have a healthy respect for people's

1201
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:27.440
<v Speaker 2>personal sexual in life choices. But we know that for

1202
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.559
<v Speaker 2>religious reasons, there are people that are actually opposing these

1203
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:34.639
<v Speaker 2>measures in our society. And I think for me, you know,

1204
01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:38.079
<v Speaker 2>we are an atheist show, right, and so for me

1205
01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:42.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of when I think about what Christy mentioned up top,

1206
01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Christian nationalism, it's hard to believe people really want to

1207
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:52.039
<v Speaker 2>do things like eliminate abortion when they then support wholeheartedly

1208
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:55.159
<v Speaker 2>people in power who are not going to do those things,

1209
01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:57.960
<v Speaker 2>who are just going to crack down on women. That's tough.

1210
01:03:58.119 --> 01:03:59.840
<v Speaker 2>That's hard to really believe. It's the abortion they care,

1211
01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:00.599
<v Speaker 2>you know.

1212
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:05.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Yeah, it is it is. I mean, ever since

1213
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:08.920
<v Speaker 5>Roby Wade was overturned and the dogs, he said, look

1214
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:12.559
<v Speaker 5>at the horrible things that happen, like that poor woman

1215
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:16.679
<v Speaker 5>in Georgia who had a wedplot in her brain and

1216
01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:19.920
<v Speaker 5>she couldn't get care and she was brain dead, and

1217
01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:23.039
<v Speaker 5>they kept her on life support because she was like

1218
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:27.960
<v Speaker 5>nine weeks pregnant when she died or was declared brain dead,

1219
01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.119
<v Speaker 5>and they kept her on life support until they couldn't

1220
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:34.199
<v Speaker 5>keep her on life support anymore. They had to remove,

1221
01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:36.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, the feets from the womb.

1222
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:39.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think the thing for me that comes up

1223
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.840
<v Speaker 2>with that, and yeah, well, the thing for me that

1224
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:44.320
<v Speaker 2>comes up with that is that you described it as horrible,

1225
01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:46.440
<v Speaker 2>and I wholeheartedly agree. I think the thing I have

1226
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>a hard time with with people is those who don't

1227
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:50.920
<v Speaker 2>see that as horrible, those who see that as a

1228
01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:56.119
<v Speaker 2>good outcome. There are plenty of those, and it's usually

1229
01:04:56.280 --> 01:05:00.760
<v Speaker 2>four religious reasons. And it's hard not to see religion

1230
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Speaker 2>is harmful personally in society when it's literally making someone

1231
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:10.239
<v Speaker 2>an incubator and calling that a win, you know, Yeah, yeah.

1232
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:14.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean that's I mean, that's what we've come to.

1233
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:17.320
<v Speaker 5>And I think in any other timeline, if a pregnant

1234
01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:20.679
<v Speaker 5>woman died, the fetus would die too, and they would

1235
01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:23.639
<v Speaker 5>just you know, you know, this is a tragic loss.

1236
01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:27.119
<v Speaker 5>They wouldn't assign any criminality to it or you know,

1237
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:31.400
<v Speaker 5>suspect any foul play. Is just yeah, a pregnant woman

1238
01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:34.599
<v Speaker 5>and the fetus have died. Yeah, it was just just

1239
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:37.800
<v Speaker 5>back then. But now, I mean even before we'll be wade.

1240
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now that and I think the idea of keeping

1241
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:44.559
<v Speaker 2>people alive in a brain dead state maybe wasn't as developed,

1242
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:47.039
<v Speaker 2>but I agree, like so kind of knowing you're in

1243
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:51.199
<v Speaker 2>California here, I've gone through two pregnancies and two birston Texas,

1244
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:57.159
<v Speaker 2>which feels relevant here. And we had like a whole

1245
01:05:57.159 --> 01:06:01.559
<v Speaker 2>conversation with my husband and I and this was I realized,

1246
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:03.840
<v Speaker 2>what I'm about to do is admit to conspiring to

1247
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:07.079
<v Speaker 2>potentially commit a crime in Texas. And I never committed,

1248
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:10.599
<v Speaker 2>but it's essentially what I did. It was like, Okay,

1249
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.639
<v Speaker 2>if there's a situation where you may not survive, where

1250
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:16.280
<v Speaker 2>something would happen. It was a discussion of what I

1251
01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:20.719
<v Speaker 2>would do, like what would happen? And I couldn't ask

1252
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:23.599
<v Speaker 2>a doctor about it here because they could be held

1253
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:28.400
<v Speaker 2>criminally liable for my abortion. There are many people that,

1254
01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:31.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, the state of Texas has started requesting hiporecords.

1255
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:33.639
<v Speaker 2>People women in the state of Texas don't use period

1256
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:36.800
<v Speaker 2>tracking apps anymore, oftentimes because they're worried that that will

1257
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:38.559
<v Speaker 2>be monitored to see whether or not they got an

1258
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:42.079
<v Speaker 2>abortion at some point. So it's people act like this

1259
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.760
<v Speaker 2>is crazy, but this is real, and so my we're

1260
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:48.639
<v Speaker 2>in a privileged of position to say that my plan

1261
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:51.800
<v Speaker 2>was to go to California to friends that I have

1262
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:55.639
<v Speaker 2>there and seek an abortion if it became medically necessary.

1263
01:06:55.719 --> 01:06:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't talk to my doctors here. I would just

1264
01:06:58.039 --> 01:06:59.960
<v Speaker 2>have to come back and say that I went on

1265
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.800
<v Speaker 2>vacation in California and I had a miscarriage. That is

1266
01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:06.920
<v Speaker 2>what That was our plan, because you have to have

1267
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.639
<v Speaker 2>a plan. We were lucky enough to be able to

1268
01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:12.239
<v Speaker 2>have a plan. But exactly what happened in Georgia, exactly

1269
01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:16.000
<v Speaker 2>what has happened multiple times now, is what we were

1270
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.920
<v Speaker 2>worried about happening. It's so real and for anyone to

1271
01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:23.400
<v Speaker 2>diminish that or the impact that would have on my

1272
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:26.639
<v Speaker 2>husband and with my second present pregnancy, my current child

1273
01:07:27.559 --> 01:07:30.599
<v Speaker 2>to say that that I don't know that abortion is

1274
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.920
<v Speaker 2>not a potentially medically necessary procedure. It diminishes their lives.

1275
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.880
<v Speaker 2>It diminishes the impact I have in their lives that

1276
01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I might matter to my already existence, son, It diminishes

1277
01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:44.760
<v Speaker 2>all of that. And it's bizarre that what I just

1278
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:48.320
<v Speaker 2>did was admit on the Internet to contemplating committing a crime,

1279
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:49.880
<v Speaker 2>But that that's what's real.

1280
01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:53.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a absolutely wild world that we are building

1281
01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:56.840
<v Speaker 1>right now, and the consequences of the Dobs decision are

1282
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:00.760
<v Speaker 1>still being sorted through, but early returns are really terrifying,

1283
01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:04.280
<v Speaker 1>whether we're looking at these anecdotal study stories or the

1284
01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:08.559
<v Speaker 1>statistical analysis that are beginning to come out and be

1285
01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:11.559
<v Speaker 1>sort of sifted through. No matter how you slice it,

1286
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:17.199
<v Speaker 1>when we bring criminality into this conversation, you see demonstrable harm,

1287
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:21.079
<v Speaker 1>whether that was anybody's intention, whether that harm is being

1288
01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:25.439
<v Speaker 1>caused by a desire to prevent the evil of murder,

1289
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:30.520
<v Speaker 1>or however we define that. Our current situation is incredibly messy,

1290
01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's something that we all have to

1291
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:35.279
<v Speaker 1>grapple with. No matter where you come down on that

1292
01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:38.560
<v Speaker 1>question of viability or whether or not to take care

1293
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:41.760
<v Speaker 1>of the violinist or pull the trolley lever or whatever

1294
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:44.520
<v Speaker 1>else you want to talk about. We have to recognize

1295
01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:47.600
<v Speaker 1>that there is incredible harm being done right now.

1296
01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:52.600
<v Speaker 5>Yes, yes, even in California. I mean, I'm fifty seven

1297
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:55.640
<v Speaker 5>years old and I've had a hysterectomy, But that doesn't

1298
01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.000
<v Speaker 5>mean that I don't feel like I have a dog

1299
01:08:58.039 --> 01:09:01.199
<v Speaker 5>in the fight, you know, because what I've been through,

1300
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:04.760
<v Speaker 5>and because I don't want to see younger women, you know,

1301
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:07.039
<v Speaker 5>deal with all of this and have to go through

1302
01:09:07.079 --> 01:09:08.760
<v Speaker 5>all of this. Like I think about my daughter, I

1303
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:10.439
<v Speaker 5>think amount my granddaughter.

1304
01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:10.279
<v Speaker 3>But.

1305
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:14.279
<v Speaker 5>I don't need you know, like even if I was

1306
01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:20.600
<v Speaker 5>younger and you know, still able to procreate here in California,

1307
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.800
<v Speaker 5>I don't know that I would feel safe right now,

1308
01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:25.479
<v Speaker 5>even here. I hear that because the government has gotten

1309
01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:26.560
<v Speaker 5>so out of control.

1310
01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:30.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, I hear that. And I feel like

1311
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:32.159
<v Speaker 1>I maybe talk about this on air a little bit

1312
01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:34.159
<v Speaker 1>too often, but I have to admit I'm kind of

1313
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.880
<v Speaker 1>fucked up about it. Just working as a therapist, seeing

1314
01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:41.239
<v Speaker 1>how many of my clients are fleeing the state of

1315
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Texas because they don't feel comfortable raising their trans kid

1316
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:49.560
<v Speaker 1>here because they don't feel comfortable risking getting pregnant and

1317
01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:53.239
<v Speaker 1>starting a family in a society that is not going

1318
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to support them if something tragic were to happen. The

1319
01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:00.800
<v Speaker 1>amount of people fleeing the Austin area in order to

1320
01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:04.720
<v Speaker 1>seek some amount of I guess political refugee status in

1321
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:07.560
<v Speaker 1>other states to try and feel like they have more

1322
01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:11.760
<v Speaker 1>safety and more support is just really remarkable. And it's

1323
01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:14.439
<v Speaker 1>something that I have experienced on a personal level with

1324
01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:17.560
<v Speaker 1>friends and family members leaving the area. It's something I've

1325
01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:21.359
<v Speaker 1>definitely seen in mass on a professional level, and it

1326
01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:24.720
<v Speaker 1>really terrifies me. This idea of let's just give the

1327
01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:28.640
<v Speaker 1>question back to the states is having profound impact on

1328
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:31.279
<v Speaker 1>people's lives, even people who will never show up in

1329
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:35.560
<v Speaker 1>the statistics on abortion related deaths or whatever else we

1330
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:37.439
<v Speaker 1>might be trying to use to gauge all of those.

1331
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:40.199
<v Speaker 5>Well, aren't there some states?

1332
01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:40.439
<v Speaker 2>Is it?

1333
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:45.359
<v Speaker 5>Florida one of them? They don't even put out statistics anymore,

1334
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.359
<v Speaker 5>or they fired the people who do the statistics.

1335
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:50.920
<v Speaker 1>My fun I heard you believe I got a news

1336
01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:55.399
<v Speaker 1>story connected to Florida where there was reduced reporting. We're

1337
01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:59.239
<v Speaker 1>seeing reduced reporting across a number of federal and state

1338
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:03.199
<v Speaker 1>agencies right now in a supposed attempt to cut back

1339
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:07.479
<v Speaker 1>government costs. That's certainly another conversation, but a messy one

1340
01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:09.880
<v Speaker 1>and one that I barely even want to think about

1341
01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:13.079
<v Speaker 1>in the wake of all of the criticism being lobbed

1342
01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:17.159
<v Speaker 1>on our weather forecasting system at this particular time in

1343
01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:20.840
<v Speaker 1>our state's history. So, yeah, big questions to be exploring

1344
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:21.479
<v Speaker 1>that direction.

1345
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:24.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's also like one of those things

1346
01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that sometimes I remember this happened during the pandemic as well,

1347
01:11:29.960 --> 01:11:33.720
<v Speaker 2>that I would bet money there's somebody listening who is

1348
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:36.359
<v Speaker 2>just like, well, I mean, according to this stat like

1349
01:11:36.439 --> 01:11:39.159
<v Speaker 2>that death was actually over this other thing, you know,

1350
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:41.600
<v Speaker 2>and try to like split these hairs to say that

1351
01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:45.880
<v Speaker 2>it's not medical care someone was unable to receive during pregnancy,

1352
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:50.119
<v Speaker 2>that actually that actually killed them, That it's not you

1353
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.880
<v Speaker 2>know what we're saying that it is trying to split

1354
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:58.159
<v Speaker 2>hairs with these stats or trying to paint them in

1355
01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:01.640
<v Speaker 2>a different way in order to argue that, you know,

1356
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:04.399
<v Speaker 2>really the risks aren't as high as we're making it

1357
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:07.319
<v Speaker 2>out to be. Women are just hysterical. It's really the

1358
01:12:07.359 --> 01:12:12.159
<v Speaker 2>upshot of that argument. Fundamentally, though, I guess.

1359
01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:18.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, these problems are solved like good old fashioned

1360
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:21.800
<v Speaker 1>feminism actually acted out in our legal system and our

1361
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:23.680
<v Speaker 1>culture and our society well.

1362
01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:26.479
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting because I've had the argument with male

1363
01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>members of my own family one that they are choosing

1364
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>policies where I could die, and that would be something

1365
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:37.800
<v Speaker 2>they had chosen that I was in that system. They

1366
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.920
<v Speaker 2>chose to make a system where I was more likely

1367
01:12:40.119 --> 01:12:43.079
<v Speaker 2>to die than I was before. That's sort of hard

1368
01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:45.159
<v Speaker 2>to swallow when that's like people that you really love

1369
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:47.720
<v Speaker 2>and care about, you know, not all of my male relatives,

1370
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:51.439
<v Speaker 2>but a decent number, and they are making these for

1371
01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:54.600
<v Speaker 2>avowed religious reasons. But I guess my life matters less.

1372
01:12:54.800 --> 01:12:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Straight up. That just seems to be true because that's

1373
01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the decision that they're making, and that Secondarily, we've talked

1374
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:02.920
<v Speaker 2>about the fact that there is a death hole. No

1375
01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:06.079
<v Speaker 2>matter how we slice it, there's a death hole. How

1376
01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:07.600
<v Speaker 2>many women does it have to be before it's not

1377
01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:09.880
<v Speaker 2>okay with you anymore? You know, Like, is there a number?

1378
01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about black and white when it comes to

1379
01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:14.680
<v Speaker 2>human life? So what's that number of women? You know?

1380
01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:18.319
<v Speaker 2>How much can it increase that women die in childbirth,

1381
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:22.680
<v Speaker 2>that women die from pregnancy related complications before you feel like, Okay,

1382
01:13:22.680 --> 01:13:25.319
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe this is enough. I'll change my mind. You know,

1383
01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.399
<v Speaker 2>there's no number. They're not They're never going to be

1384
01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:31.880
<v Speaker 2>enough because it doesn't really matter to them.

1385
01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:35.319
<v Speaker 5>That's what I was thinking. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I

1386
01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:40.279
<v Speaker 5>was thinking when I really remember for them.

1387
01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, And I really just wanted to say that I

1388
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:47.479
<v Speaker 1>heard what you said when a anecdote is not the

1389
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.039
<v Speaker 1>same thing as data, that one person's personal story is

1390
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:54.720
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily what we should be basing all of our

1391
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:58.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, governmental and moral thinking upon. And I'm incredibly

1392
01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:01.520
<v Speaker 1>grateful to you for being willing to share yours with

1393
01:14:01.600 --> 01:14:04.720
<v Speaker 1>us and to put a voice, if not a face,

1394
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:08.039
<v Speaker 1>to some of these issues that so often get gobbled

1395
01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>up by the Internet into a bunch of men sitting

1396
01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>around stroking their own beards, talking about what other people

1397
01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:19.159
<v Speaker 1>ought to be doing with their body. I really appreciate

1398
01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:20.000
<v Speaker 1>you joining us here.

1399
01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:23.079
<v Speaker 5>Oh, I appreciate you having me on and letting me

1400
01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:25.800
<v Speaker 5>get this out, because I've been listening to several of

1401
01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:29.640
<v Speaker 5>these shows and they bring up adoption. These prolite people

1402
01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:32.399
<v Speaker 5>just they bring up adoption like it's nothing, or they

1403
01:14:32.439 --> 01:14:35.039
<v Speaker 5>bring up that science fiction thing about well just take

1404
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:37.840
<v Speaker 5>the fetus out and put it in an artificial womb,

1405
01:14:38.119 --> 01:14:41.199
<v Speaker 5>which that brings you know, which is like, okay, one,

1406
01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.720
<v Speaker 5>that's that can't happen. That doesn't happen, Probably not going

1407
01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:47.920
<v Speaker 5>to happen. But even if it could happen, then who

1408
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:50.119
<v Speaker 5>then who is responsible for it?

1409
01:14:50.920 --> 01:14:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I almost asked that exact question. I was like,

1410
01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:55.119
<v Speaker 2>who's paying for the artificial womb? Who's who's on the

1411
01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>who is it? The states like, yeah, anyway, I agree,

1412
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:02.600
<v Speaker 2>imagining the whole life movements willingness to pay for that

1413
01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>question Jesus.

1414
01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So there's hypocrisy all around. We do have to

1415
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:11.560
<v Speaker 1>still wrestle with these complex questions. There is no easy

1416
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:14.439
<v Speaker 1>way to draw a strict moral line, but I think

1417
01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:18.560
<v Speaker 1>we are called upon to make moral judgments and hopefully

1418
01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:21.119
<v Speaker 1>not be judgmental of others when we don't know all

1419
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:24.279
<v Speaker 1>the details of their situation and anything else you'd like

1420
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:25.159
<v Speaker 1>to add, well.

1421
01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:30.479
<v Speaker 5>I just wanted to also. Fia discussed it about the religion.

1422
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:34.039
<v Speaker 5>You know, these laws coming from religion, and we're not

1423
01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:36.479
<v Speaker 5>supposed to be that way in this country. It's the

1424
01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:40.920
<v Speaker 5>first thing in the constitution, but we are, unfortunately and

1425
01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:46.039
<v Speaker 5>religion in law in these abortion laws, is causing women

1426
01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:49.000
<v Speaker 5>to be prosecuted for having miscarriages.

1427
01:15:49.479 --> 01:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, these are very real issues and points to

1428
01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:56.039
<v Speaker 1>what Sophia said about the lobbying a cudgel or an

1429
01:15:56.199 --> 01:16:00.720
<v Speaker 1>axe rather than a scalpel or a razor. And yeah,

1430
01:16:00.760 --> 01:16:03.079
<v Speaker 1>I do think that we can make good laws to

1431
01:16:03.119 --> 01:16:06.159
<v Speaker 1>try and prevent people from doing bad things. I think

1432
01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:09.600
<v Speaker 1>there is no person on earth who could reasonably say

1433
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.479
<v Speaker 1>we have done that around the question of abortion. And

1434
01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>certainly there are things that need to be revisited.

1435
01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yeah, thank you.

1436
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>So much for your time. You have a great rest

1437
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:20.760
<v Speaker 1>of your weekend. All right, well, I want to make

1438
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:23.960
<v Speaker 1>sure to bring Richard back in and check in here

1439
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.039
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the show as we're getting him

1440
01:16:26.039 --> 01:16:29.199
<v Speaker 1>pulled up. Sophia, I guess I wanted to ask you about,

1441
01:16:29.319 --> 01:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of that question hanging over our head

1442
01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:38.479
<v Speaker 1>about patriotism and Christianity, and this whole show being about

1443
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:41.760
<v Speaker 1>abortion seems really tied to that idea. I mean, how

1444
01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:46.039
<v Speaker 1>does Christian nationalism factor into our entire abortion system?

1445
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:49.199
<v Speaker 2>You have thirty seconds goo, okay, I would say that

1446
01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:52.640
<v Speaker 2>I really love your definition of Christian nationalism. Up at

1447
01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the top of the show, where America belongs to white

1448
01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Christians and should be ruled accordingly. I thought that was

1449
01:16:56.760 --> 01:16:58.840
<v Speaker 2>a great definition because I look at it and I'm like,

1450
01:16:59.159 --> 01:17:01.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm white, no longer Christian. I will only add into

1451
01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:04.520
<v Speaker 2>that white Christian males because my rights are not really

1452
01:17:04.520 --> 01:17:07.199
<v Speaker 2>thought about here. I would also point out that my

1453
01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:10.199
<v Speaker 2>undergrad is into political science. I know a lot about

1454
01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:12.319
<v Speaker 2>the Constitution. I've gotten just so many arguments with Christian

1455
01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:14.560
<v Speaker 2>nationalists where they say something is the Constitution and it's

1456
01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:16.640
<v Speaker 2>demonstrably not, because you know what I have in my

1457
01:17:16.680 --> 01:17:19.840
<v Speaker 2>purse at all times, a Constitution. I am a patriot.

1458
01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:22.960
<v Speaker 2>My family has been here since the fucking Mayflower. So

1459
01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:26.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I guess you can't get more heritage American,

1460
01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:29.359
<v Speaker 2>which is basically just a white American anyway than me. Yes,

1461
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:32.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm almost translucent. I am so white. I have as

1462
01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:35.920
<v Speaker 2>white Shot would say, gens so pure you could lick

1463
01:17:36.119 --> 01:17:40.159
<v Speaker 2>things off of them. And yet fuck you. Still, I

1464
01:17:40.199 --> 01:17:43.439
<v Speaker 2>am of these people. I know these people, I was

1465
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:46.079
<v Speaker 2>raised around these people. I've been in these churches. I

1466
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:48.520
<v Speaker 2>believe these things. I made those arguments for you. You

1467
01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>are still wrong, and not only are you wrong, you

1468
01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:54.520
<v Speaker 2>are cruel and the cruelty is the point. Okay, all right, you've.

1469
01:17:54.359 --> 01:17:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Made good use of your thirty seconds. Goddamn, thank you

1470
01:17:56.720 --> 01:18:00.439
<v Speaker 1>so much, Richard. What do you have to add about

1471
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:05.399
<v Speaker 1>the notion of American Christian nationalism, any of your thoughts

1472
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:07.239
<v Speaker 1>about the show before we wrap up today.

1473
01:18:07.880 --> 01:18:11.119
<v Speaker 3>I just want to know if Texas is really the

1474
01:18:11.159 --> 01:18:14.479
<v Speaker 3>Republic of Gilead, because that's what it sounds like to me.

1475
01:18:15.880 --> 01:18:19.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, it feels that way sometimes. But now with

1476
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:24.279
<v Speaker 1>legalized THHC, I guess so, I know, okay.

1477
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:26.359
<v Speaker 2>So that we can be docile as.

1478
01:18:26.439 --> 01:18:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, laws. You know, federalism is kind of in

1479
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:34.439
<v Speaker 1>doubt when you live under some of the people I

1480
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:35.600
<v Speaker 1>live under right now.

1481
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:41.680
<v Speaker 3>But fair enough, Yeah, I think Gohan, I think there

1482
01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:44.479
<v Speaker 3>was a little bit of goal pulls moving going off

1483
01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:47.119
<v Speaker 3>to some of his responses. It was a good call

1484
01:18:47.159 --> 01:18:48.199
<v Speaker 3>overall to go back.

1485
01:18:48.079 --> 01:18:49.760
<v Speaker 1>And listen to it again. But I did feel like

1486
01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the argument shifted every ten minutes in that forty minute call.

1487
01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:55.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it was a good call overall. Le's

1488
01:18:55.960 --> 01:18:58.560
<v Speaker 3>just I'm one thing I'm really interested in with him,

1489
01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:01.640
<v Speaker 3>and it didn't give pronouns. I don't know whether it's

1490
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:04.600
<v Speaker 3>a him or what he claims.

1491
01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I imagine go ahead and go ahead, go ahead

1492
01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:13.640
<v Speaker 1>lives their entire life, and their pronound based decision was

1493
01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:14.640
<v Speaker 1>not at all political.

1494
01:19:15.680 --> 01:19:20.479
<v Speaker 3>I'm interested because they've neversed it as to whether they

1495
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:24.600
<v Speaker 3>are a Christian and to whether it is that Christianity

1496
01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:30.279
<v Speaker 3>that informs their beliefs on abortion. I'd been interested in

1497
01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:34.319
<v Speaker 3>that aspect of it, and on Great Call. One of

1498
01:19:34.359 --> 01:19:37.079
<v Speaker 3>the great things I like about the show, especially when

1499
01:19:37.119 --> 01:19:41.520
<v Speaker 3>i'm you know, getting the opportunity to listen to the callers,

1500
01:19:42.119 --> 01:19:46.840
<v Speaker 3>is just listening to perspectives that I cannot possibly have

1501
01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:51.479
<v Speaker 3>myself and learning from them. And and that was a fantastic,

1502
01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:54.600
<v Speaker 3>fantastic call with Anne. Great job. I really enjoyed it.

1503
01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:55.239
<v Speaker 3>Thanks guys.

1504
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:59.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely so. I want to make sure to remind

1505
01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:02.479
<v Speaker 1>people before we go out, just one last time, bid

1506
01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>dot lee slash Austin Flood Fund where you can contribute

1507
01:20:05.840 --> 01:20:09.640
<v Speaker 1>to support people in Kerr County and the other affected

1508
01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:13.359
<v Speaker 1>areas here in central Texas. Richard, can you remind us

1509
01:20:13.399 --> 01:20:14.640
<v Speaker 1>what the question of the week is?

1510
01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:20.279
<v Speaker 3>Come on the full thing gope for this week is wrong,

1511
01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:24.359
<v Speaker 3>ANSWER's own way, Jesus blank for your sins, replying the

1512
01:20:24.359 --> 01:20:26.760
<v Speaker 3>comments and tune in at the beginning of next week's

1513
01:20:26.760 --> 01:20:29.359
<v Speaker 3>episode for the top three answers.

1514
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:33.720
<v Speaker 1>All right, well, definitely, we are sending out our love

1515
01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:36.760
<v Speaker 1>rings to all of the people affected by the flooding

1516
01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:40.520
<v Speaker 1>here in central Texas, to everybody who's been affected by

1517
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:45.159
<v Speaker 1>the Dobbs decision and are certainly inadequate adoption in foster

1518
01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>care and medical health services for around pregnancy, anybody else

1519
01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:50.880
<v Speaker 1>you always send out lover rings to.

1520
01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:53.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think you covered a lot of it.

1521
01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:57.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking about Texas right now. Obviously we're very close

1522
01:20:57.640 --> 01:21:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to it, and yeah, that's a I think that's a

1523
01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:01.600
<v Speaker 2>good choice.

1524
01:21:02.399 --> 01:21:06.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, absolutely loverings to the families of all

1525
01:21:06.199 --> 01:21:10.399
<v Speaker 3>those involved in that tragedy. And you know, let's you know,

1526
01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:14.960
<v Speaker 3>not let's not give them prayers, but let's hope that

1527
01:21:16.199 --> 01:21:20.159
<v Speaker 3>they can take strength and support from those around them,

1528
01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:25.439
<v Speaker 3>and you know, let's have There's this thing about the

1529
01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:29.039
<v Speaker 3>I've just read somewhere as the show was on about

1530
01:21:29.279 --> 01:21:36.520
<v Speaker 3>Texas didn't give aid to other states when when tragedies

1531
01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:39.640
<v Speaker 3>happen to them and they're appealing for aid now, and

1532
01:21:40.600 --> 01:21:43.840
<v Speaker 3>you know the post I read states that, well, we

1533
01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:46.399
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't be giving it. And because they didn't give fut

1534
01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:50.680
<v Speaker 3>that give them the aid and you know people needed

1535
01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:54.199
<v Speaker 3>and people need that support in this difficult time. It

1536
01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:57.800
<v Speaker 3>doesn't matter whether the Christian, whether the Conservative, it doesn't matter.

1537
01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:01.640
<v Speaker 3>You know people are suffering in Do the right thing

1538
01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:04.000
<v Speaker 3>and give them all the age you can, whether it's

1539
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:08.359
<v Speaker 3>by donating, whether it's the government, channels, whatever, Let's help

1540
01:22:08.399 --> 01:22:09.920
<v Speaker 3>these people as much as we come.

1541
01:22:10.239 --> 01:22:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, just remember the humans and the humanitarian disaster.

1542
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the good ones and the bad ones in the blue, red,

1543
01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:19.680
<v Speaker 1>purple ones, the humans.

1544
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:20.039
<v Speaker 5>YEA.

1545
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:22.439
<v Speaker 1>Not to tack this on, but I do want to

1546
01:22:22.479 --> 01:22:27.279
<v Speaker 1>send out quick lover rings to Vegan Aliens and Miranda Rensberger,

1547
01:22:27.359 --> 01:22:31.319
<v Speaker 1>our super chat supporters, one note saying, I want to

1548
01:22:31.439 --> 01:22:34.760
<v Speaker 1>thank the host last week for the supported words supportive

1549
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:38.800
<v Speaker 1>words regarding veganism. My deconstruction led me to veganisms, so

1550
01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate the support here as well as great show.

1551
01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:47.159
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe it's already over. I will say the same.

1552
01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll remind people that they can still donate and help

1553
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:54.399
<v Speaker 1>those affected, and then of course remind everybody watching that

1554
01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:57.239
<v Speaker 1>if you don't believe, this is your community and we

1555
01:22:57.279 --> 01:23:00.600
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you being here. If you do believe, we certainly

1556
01:23:00.640 --> 01:23:01.319
<v Speaker 1>don't hate you.

1557
01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:24.720
<v Speaker 6>Convinced we want the truth, so watch Truth Wanted live

1558
01:23:24.920 --> 01:23:28.399
<v Speaker 6>Fridays at seven pm Central Call five one two nine

1559
01:23:28.479 --> 01:23:31.319
<v Speaker 6>nine one nine two four two, or visit tiny dot

1560
01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:33.239
<v Speaker 6>cc forward slash call tw