Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: I'm Martin Willis your host, and I've got a very
interesting guest for you tonight, Jay Hammond, and he's a
school psychologist and he's come up with a very interesting
theory in regards to UAP entities things like that. We're
gonna be talking to him in just a moment. I
want to thank everyone for being here tonight. This is
as a premier and you're welcome to be in chat
while this airs. It's at the regular time on Tuesday evening.
I am out somewhere away from my phone that I
can't even use my phone, so I'm not going to
be in chat tonight, but I do thank you all
for being here and participating.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for.
Speaker 2: All those who listen to the show, help with the show,
and also support the show. And anyone can do that
for an AD free experience in audio through Patreon, through
a site and you can listen on any podcast player
a AD free situation, or you can always watch uslive.
We're here every Tuesday, generally speaking live, I should say
Tuesday evenings at eight pm Eastern time, and on some
Thursday nights at the same time eight pm.
Speaker 1: And let's see.
Speaker 2: I'm going to just see if we have We do
not have a guest slated yet for next week. It
might be Mark D'Antonio. I'm not really certain at this point,
waiting to hear back if the schedule works for him.
Speaker 1: He's always a pleasure to have on.
Speaker 2: We're going to be talking a lot about astronomy, of course,
and the relations of a UFO's propulsion, things like that.
Very interesting always with Mark D'Antonio. But here we go
with our guest tonight. Jay, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: This is surreal because I've been listening for a long time,
for about ten so it's a it's a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Martin, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Well, well, thank you.
Speaker 2: You reached out to me and I thought you had
a very interesting thought. And well I have to say,
you know, I mean, did you start listening to the
show because you had an experience or what was what
was the situation?
Speaker 4: Oh man, I started listening to the show because I well,
it all starts at Star Wars. If we're going to
be honest, I mean.
Speaker 3: I grew I was born seventy five, so so you
know I grew up with Star.
Speaker 4: Wars with seventy seven, and then the Space Shuttle program
was I believe what eighty one.
Speaker 3: So I grew up I think, if.
Speaker 4: I'm not miscorting that, but I grew up in this
really exciting time. I had a poster of the Solar
system on my bedroom wall when I was about eight
years old. And then in nineteen eighty nine, you know,
George Knapp comes out with Bob Blazaarre's story that captivated me.
I know that you kind of not on the same
spot as I am on that one, but I do
believe Bob Lazarre. I've been a long time believer, and
I think that over the years it's just more and
more has come out that's proven a lot of the
things that he said to be It's consistent at least.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm not here to debate, but I did.
Luigi I can't remember his last name, just is putting
on a film about him and we were going to
do a debate, and I started thinking about it, and
I don't know if I want to go down that road,
because you know, I do get a lot of hate
mail every time I mentioned my thoughts of Baul Bazaar,
and it basically boils down to me thinking that he's
probably taken on someone else's persona that knew something, because
he knew a lot, and it's the only thing that
really makes sense to me with his background, the things
that he's been in trouble for, so to speak, you know.
But anyway, I'm not here to debate that, and so yeah,
we can go on, but go ahead and continue if
you would.
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, So I would say.
Speaker 4: I started college to for my teaching degree, for a
Bachelor in Elementary Education. And one of the classes that
I had to take this is when I was about thirty.
It's the second career. One of the classes I had
to take was a speech class, and so I figured,
I just put together something that I'm into that I
know a lot about, that I've already done a lot
of research on. So I wanted to do a speech
on UFOs, and I started reading a lot of Stanton
Friedman's books. And really that was when it was about
twenty years ago. That was when I really started paying
attention to saying, wait a minute, there's something really here.
You know, if you follow along and start researching the
documents that he talks about in his Majestic twelve book,
Bulfos and Flying Saucers captured Betty and Barney Hill. You know,
he's not just talking from a place of nowhere. He's
he's got a lot of research. And if you actually
follow it up and go to the FBI vaults and
go to the places and look at these documents, it's
a real it's a real situation. And so that really
woke me up to Okay, what's going on here? And
then I started doing a little bit more digging. And
then twenty sixteen, I start hearing Tom DeLong talking about
this consciousness thing. And this is where you came along, Martin,
because you came to mind, because I've heard you over
the years several times saying that what are they talking about? Like,
it's hard for us to wrap our head around what
do they mean? You know, you look up, you see
a nuts and Bolt's craft. It's something there. What's this
mean with the consciousness aspect of it? And so I
started hearing that and I had no idea what he
was talking about either. But over the years, and especially
following Leslie Keen and Ralph Blumenthal's article in twenty seventeen,
I started paying attention to everybody talking about that and
if you if you just streamed through the podcast from
last week, there were so many people talking about this
same subject. I heard just the other day on Area
fifty two Chris Ramsey was talking about consciously consciousness aspect.
So long story short, what I have is not a
new theory. The research has been done for years, decades,
maybe even centuries, with thinkers like Valet, Carl Jung, Terence McKenna,
all these people that have done a lot of work,
and maybe not in our field of uthology. But my
idea is to present it as a gestalt, a whole
picture that takes all these little pieces and says, you
know what, this seems like. It's starting to paint a
picture of coming from all from one area, from one thing.
And that was kind of where I had this idea,
and I wanted to reach out to you specifically. You're
the first person whopped into my head about it. I
wanted to see what you thought about it.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's very interesting and like you said,
you put it very well. It's hard to wrap your
head around it. But you know, I say often on
the show that I really believe that we know very
little about what is actually going on around us, And
you know, I see evidence of this all the time,
and I did put your graphics in this one here,
this one I had to It kind of spreads out
a little further. But I don't know if you, at
any time you want to get into that and we
can go through how that all connects. I don't know
if you want to do that now. But have you
yourself had type of encounter?
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because I've had what I would
consider one, I guess, anomalous UAP encounter.
Speaker 3: But in considering my.
Speaker 4: Whole life, you know, I start thinking about like times
that dreams have come true.
Speaker 3: Insight where why would I have known that?
Speaker 4: Just strange phenomena like that, kind of like the the
Carly synchronicities. All these things started happened to me over
over the years that that kind of helped me to
paint this picture. But the UAP situation really stuck out
to me because I was I was coming from Tampa.
I was coming, I guess i'd be heading north on
seventy five from Tampa and I look into it's it's
above where it would be where the city of Zephyr
Hills would be, and it was it was a all.
I can say that my brain, as much as I
had always been into UFOs, I didn't go right to Ufoh,
that's a UFO.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like that at all, which was bizarre to me.
Speaker 4: It was more like my brain was trying to formulate
something normal. And all I could think of when I
was looking at this thing it was rectangular, was maybe
it's an airplane carrying one of those banners. And I'm
driving and I'm trying to pay attention, but you know,
this thing's got my attention.
Speaker 3: I'm looking up, I'm driving, I'm looking up.
Speaker 4: But the banner didn't make sense because there seemed to
be depth to this thing. It looked like a rectangular
prism in the sky. And it was very odd. The string,
the high strangeness that happened with this Martin was when
I got home and my wife sees me. She's a
principal at an elementary school. I'm a school psychologist to
other schools. But she sees me. I get home, she says, hey,
did you see so and so's face post on Facebook?
I said no, So she showed me his post. Our
buddy from the school that we both worked at, and
his Facebook post Martin said, Am I the only crazy one?
Or did anybody else see a flying I think he
called it a square. I said a rectangle. He said square.
It was a little difference, but he saw the same
thing that I saw, and I just I have goose
flesh now thinking about it. It was very strange to
me that, Okay, so there was something there in the sky.
Speaker 3: I started looking into it.
Speaker 4: Did anybody report anything, move finds the news around zeph Hill,
local news, nothing, nobody mentions anything about this whatsoever. And
that was what really bothered me about it, was that
this guy that I worked with, he's a pe coach
at the elementary school that I was subbing at.
Speaker 3: At the time I was going, I was still going
to school.
Speaker 4: And you know, we weren't buddies yet. We became friends,
but we weren't together. He was wherever he I don't
even know where he was. I was on my way
home from probably one of my classes. And so we
both see this thing that nobody else sees. So that
ties into to my theory. That's one of the main
experiences that I had that really led me to what
I'm going to be talking about. Another one involves my
work as a school psychologist, and I do want to
be careful here because of confidentiality, but I've if you
count my internship year, this is my I'm finishing my
sixth year as a school psychologist, and in as many years,
I've had six children from seven to fourteen, ages seven
to fourteen tell me that they were seeing what they.
Speaker 3: Refer to as shadow figures. I had.
Speaker 4: I had one, Yeah, I had one student in my
office actively hallucinating, telling me appointing, there's one there, there's
one there. And another student I ended up having to
have hospitalized because if he was actively hallucinating. So it's
you know, it's not easy to talk about these things,
and I consider myself an impath and I take it
to heart and it's it's not easy work. But as
this kept occurring, I start looking into it. Every single
one of them had had one thing in common, and
that was trauma, trauma experience, and psychologists know that.
Speaker 3: That trauma can cause.
Speaker 4: Hallucinations, it can cause temporary psychosis. But it just was
What was interesting to me was the way that they
describe these things. From like I said, from ages seven
to fourteen, they all described the same almost verbatim, the
same exact thing. So that was another situation. So besides
my own seeing something that situation, it all led to
me kind of in reading tons and tons of books
and listening to a lot of podcasters like yourself and
your guests. That's how I came up with this kind
of idea. And actually it was during a meditation that
that not the idea itself, but how to present it
kind of came into my head.
Speaker 2: And do you want me to pull up the that
chart that you sent me? And I don't know if
this one is very clear to read and maybe more
of a simple way too.
Speaker 3: I think that's the best one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's the best one because the way
that this is the field, that the idea of the
field is in a sense, and that's that helps me
to explain what kind of is in my head.
Speaker 3: And again this isn't.
Speaker 4: Anything new everybody, for your listeners, this is taking brilliant
thinkers from the past and trying to come up with Okay,
let's make sense of all of this and see if
we can explain everything that we're seeing. So the idea
is that there's some kind of field, just like Carl
Jung says, calls it the collective unconscious. We can consider
it that, we can look at it as another dimension,
we can look at it as even heaven. I explained
it to my family as maybe this is where we
are before we're.
Speaker 3: Born and where we go after we die.
Speaker 4: It's the place that if you're having an astral projection,
you're you're interacting with it.
Speaker 3: It's a place where these near.
Speaker 4: Death experiences that we've all heard about, I mean where
crazy near death experiences where somebody is completely dead and
yet they when they are brought back to life, they
tell everybody in the room what what occurred? Like, you know,
they'll say something like with a real specific, detailed woman
in a red dress came in, she said such and such,
and the doctors are astonished. So in your death experiences,
I'm including in this. It's it's the same thing that
all these thinkers have been talking about.
Speaker 3: But my idea is that.
Speaker 4: It seems to me that human beings are able to
access this field. We can tap into it, whether that's
during meditation. That's that's how I try to meditate as
much as I can, and I have had and that's
that's another big piece of this that I'll tell you about.
Something that came to me during a meditation once. But
meditation and altered states, trauma and extreme emotions, these are
always that humans can access this this realmless field.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: Terrance McKenna psychedelics and chemical means again, Carl Young, sleep
and dreams and.
Speaker 3: Artists.
Speaker 4: I am a musician, you know, like Paul McCartney saying,
yesterday just popped into his head in a dream.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I idea is that we're getting we're getting information from
somewhere and the way that I can describe it. I'm
an educator, so I try to take complex ideas and
break them down so that, you know, young young people
can understand it. Young people can consider this either like
like stranger things the upside down. I mean, they're making
TV shows about it for crying out loud, but the
upside down is kind of like this this realm. Anybody
else that's tech savvy kind of think about it like
an iCloud. So I was telling my team at work
today when I was trying to explain this to them,
and they're looking at me like I had two heads.
I said, you know, an eye cloud, we we are
able to retrieve information out of this invisible thing. We
don't see it. It's not there, but we can get information.
And not only can we retrieve information from it, we
can make that information tangible. We can print it and
hold it, we can burn it on a CDR and
listen to it. So we're able to interact with this
information that we're getting from the e cloud. And I
kind of compare this to the same thing when I
meditate several years ago. I I meditated because when I
started doing this job, I felt I thought to myself,
if I'm going to be recommending this to students, I
want to I don't want to be a hypocrite. You know,
I'm not going to tell kids, why don't you try
meditating if I've never meditated. So I tried meditating, and
I ended up really enjoying it. I really got to
that point where I could get myself into that calm
Alfa state. And what happened really really scared me. It
was during the Gabby Patito event. Do you remember what
I'm talking about with the missing girl?
Speaker 2: I do that I don't recall specifically, but it sounds
very familiar.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: So she was she was a young girl that went missing.
Speaker 4: She was traveling with her I believe boyfriend or fiance
and she went missing, and it was on the news.
Speaker 3: I wasn't.
Speaker 4: I wasn't wrapped up in this story, you know, but
but it was in the news.
Speaker 3: I certainly wasn't. It wasn't something that.
Speaker 4: I was saying, I'm going to go and meditate on this,
you know. That's that's just wasn't happening. But I meditated.
And I don't know how else to describe this. I've
I've described it to my family and friends, but I
try not to tell to me people because it sounds
a little weird.
Speaker 3: A voice, I'm meditating, I'm in that, I'm in that
South estate. I'm calm, nothing else is happening. In a voice,
it was like a disembodied voice, clear as day.
Speaker 4: It was different than that voice you hear when you
hear yourself reading or thinking that that voice in your head,
Like it wasn't the same as that. It was something different,
and it said, clear as day, Gabby Patito was strangled.
Speaker 3: And it woke me.
Speaker 4: Out of my meditation, and I was like, well, that
was strange. And I went and I told we had
we have Sunday dinner with my family on Sundays and
so I went and told the family that was there,
and they're going, okay, Jay, whatever, you're getting.
Speaker 3: Into some real, real weird stuff.
Speaker 4: Two weeks later, it was announced on the news Gabby
Patito was strangled. But the thing was, like I said,
it wasn't like a thought it was. It seemed different,
and I didn't doubt it for one second. It just
seemed like information that I knew it. I told people,
and then that's what ended up being the case. So
I think that meditation is another way, it could be
another way to access this field to get information where
otherwise you're not going to be getting it. But I
also think, and this is where it paints a little
bit of a different picture, that if you look at
that visual, one of the things that it says one
of the modes of access to the field is rituals.
And I think that people can use it for innocuous reasons,
and I think.
Speaker 3: That people can use it for nefarious reasons.
Speaker 4: And you've got people like Jack Parsons, who, for your listeners,
he's the father of American rocketry. Check out what some
of his behaviors were on the side, some of his
extracurricular he was participating in rituals, he was a freemason,
He had all kinds of things. So my point is,
in this gestalt that I'm trying to present, I think
that it can even tie in to what we've been
hearing lately about, you know, and I'm I don't want
to get too into it in conspiratorial with the Epstein files,
some of the people in those files, I think maybe
tapping into this for some not so nice reasons.
Speaker 2: Whoah, you know, when what you're talking about some sometimes
makes me think of a couple of different things, like hyahuasca,
people talking about, you know, mushrooms and things like that.
I mean, I actually had someone that I would never
think would ever talk about UFOs or aliens or anything
like that told me that an alien came to visit
her while she was taking this. She was taking it
for because she's very, very stressed all the time and
she was trying to get She did it through like
a medical procedure, but not a medical procedure, but I
mean it was it was because I know it's I
think it's illegal. I'm not sure, but anyway, she had
she did it through some type of office or something,
but she was convinced that there was an alien and
I was contacted yesterday. Let me just throw this at you.
Yesterday someone wanted me to interview doctor Christopher Macklin. Digital
over digital over stimulation, and toxic technology gateways for entity
attachments and negative energies. That's basically what his interview about.
But I mean, it sounds like there's all some type
of connections with what you are looking into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, different ways.
Speaker 4: I just think it's it's a way to tie tie
it all together and another piece of this framework that
I'm working on, and it's a work in progress. I mean,
we're always learning, you know, and there's people doing really
really good work in this field currently. But there's there's
a I look at it like a signal, Like our
brains are almost like receivers to this signal. And this
this field of consciousness, the I cloud, the upside down,
whatever you want to refer.
Speaker 3: To it as the astrol field. It sends out signals.
Speaker 4: And our brain is maybe this is just a guess,
is interpreting it. But this is where my UAP thing
came in Martin and trying to figure out why it
was that high strangeness existed around that sighting, why nobody
else talked about it.
Speaker 3: Why only Fred and I saw it?
Speaker 4: I started thinking about do you remember the internet thing
that went around a couple of years ago, the golden.
Speaker 3: White, purple and black dress.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, I think if we think about it like that,
we're you take two people. You're looking at the same signal.
We're both looking at the same exact thing, but our
brain is interpreting it differently. It's interpreting the signal differently.
I see a purple and black dress, but you're sitting
there looking at it, and you're saying, no, it's white
and gold.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Same thing with that Yanni
Laurel audio.
Speaker 4: Clip where you listen to it, and if you're looking
at the word, you're hearing whichever word you're looking at.
Speaker 3: And I think that.
Speaker 4: Maybe what's what's I'm proposing that what's happening is that
this cloud, this this field, our brains are are interpreting
these signals coming from it in different ways. So Fred
and I, I'm sorry, I just said my buddy's name
that saw this thing. We were tuned to the same channel.
We were tuned on the same frequency. And that's why
I'm saying, I'm proposing that's why we saw it, and
it wasn't all over the news for whatever reason.
Speaker 3: Now you've also got you know.
Speaker 4: Where where Jacques Vallet Valet's research comes in in his
book Passport to What is It? Magonia? Yeah, it's it's
looked at differently, whether through through culture, through time. You know,
a couple hundred years ago, maybe people were seeing God,
angels and demons. Before that, maybe fairies. But it's it's
also that that cultural lens that Valet talks about, I
think is really important.
Speaker 3: We're interpreting.
Speaker 4: It's I'm not saying that the things are not there.
I'm saying that that they're a real thing. I do
you think that they're a real thing, but that our
brain is somehow it's a signal that from this cloud
that we're interpreting that makes us see exactly what it
is that we're seeing and experiencing.
Speaker 2: Now I have to tell you about the I spoke
to an author and also a personal friend of mine
who is an eyewitness to this situation. It's called the
Linley Street Cottage, I believe in Bridgeport, Connecticut. It's a
little tiny house and there were some major poulter Geist
activity going on there where my friend was actually there.
He was called in to go there.
Speaker 1: It's Paul Eno. He passed away a few years ago.
Speaker 2: Paul was right there and with the police department and
the fire department, and they all watched a two hundred
pound refrigerator lift right off the ground and go slamming
across the room into a wall, and they're all wat this.
Speaker 1: Now, there was a.
Speaker 2: Ten year old adopted girl that had been abused, and
it was a terrible thing because she was being picked
on at school and all these things were happening. It
was out of control, and as soon as she was
out of the house it stopped. So there was a
connection between the little girl and everything that was going
on there.
Speaker 1: That's wild as bizarre as it sounds.
Speaker 4: Yep, And it seems like and this is where I've
heard some more of the conspiratorial side of things.
Speaker 3: But it seems like.
Speaker 4: How however, the worst the trauma is that the person experiences,
or the worst the deed is that the person is
using to try to access this fields. It's a stronger
access method those that are using it for nefarious evil purposes,
you know, like you want to you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Sex magic or whatever the.
Speaker 4: Weird things are the people do the rituals. If the
people that are engaging in those types of activities, it
seems like a more direct pathway too. But you're gonna
get evil out of it, you're gonna you're you're not
going to get anything good out of it. But I'm
wondering if that's what's going on too, And I think, yeah,
the poltergeist thing, I think that it all can be
wrapped up into this one, this one interdimensional you know,
and years ago I was I was all about the
extraterrestrial hypothesis. I thought for sure I had it wrapped up.
They were from uh uh, what is it? Proxima centori
for your light years away? And I still think that
maybe some you know, that's possible. It would take them
for years to get here.
Speaker 2: Well, as far as we know, we may not no
other ways they can figure out.
Speaker 1: A type of physics. And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the only ones that can get
their nuts and boats are approximate century. Anything else further
than that, I think is using what I'm talking about
is using this field. Is you're talking interdimensional travel, because yeah,
they're having to use some kind of different physics to
get here from there, and that.
Speaker 3: That closes off a lot of people.
Speaker 4: They said that there's no way that they can get
here from from from there to here. But I mean, come,
let's look at quantum physics. There's just too many discoveries
and too much research in the field that shows it.
Speaker 3: Number one, we're not going to be using rocket fuel.
Speaker 4: I think that this interdimensional hypothesis is the is the key.
And it also kind of scares me a little bit
because last year I was I was developing a different
framework called that I was calling uty education educators for
UAP Disclosure and Inquiry, and I was I was trying
to collect a group of educators. I had a principal
body of mine. I had a PhD psychologist friend of
mine that was that was interested to try to take
this into and it may sound silly, but to take
it into the education realm, because I think that it's
going to be important for for for us to work
with with people through this. This is this is some
montological shock, shocking information, you know, like whenever disclosure happens,
it's going to be a shock. And and so my
idea was, well, let's let's look forward. Let's be forward
thinking about this, and you know, we're working in the schools.
Let's let's think about how we can bring it into
the school system.
Speaker 3: But then I.
Speaker 4: Start putting together all these ideas and I'm thinking, you
know what, the et hypothesis is the most prosaic out
of all these ideas.
Speaker 3: It's it's the least it's the least scary to me.
I hope that they're.
Speaker 4: Aliens from proximate sensory because the inner dimensional thing, the
the the fortresses in our oceans that they're talking about, now,
all these other hypotheses that are looking like, you know me,
let's let's give it some credence a little bit scarier.
So I completely you know, I took it and I
did that with it because it was like, all right,
I thought that I.
Speaker 3: Knew what I was talking about.
Speaker 4: But the more it seems like the more you do
research into this field, it's almost crazier that it gets.
Speaker 3: And I thought, yeah, so this.
Speaker 1: Is I agree with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is scary stuff. So I said, no more,
I'm not even gonna worry about bringing in the schools.
Let somebody else do that, because this is scary.
Speaker 2: I remember when Louel Azando said, what if we're not
the top of the food chain, you know, what if
something else has been here all along?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: And I've tried to get him to elaborate on that,
you know, especially the last time I had him on,
and he wouldn't really go any further than that, you know,
And he always kind of hints at that he knows
things that he can't say, you know, which is probably true.
I have to give him that there's probably things that
he you know, can't say that he would get in
trouble for. But anyway, so that is, you know, to
think that there could be something that's always been here
alongside of us that we can't detect, possibly or whatever
it is, you know, that's kind of scary in a
way too.
Speaker 3: And then we can access it, but they can access
us sometimes too. That's I think it goes both ways.
Speaker 4: I think that we can access whatever it is where
this is happening, but it goes two ways.
Speaker 1: It's funny.
Speaker 2: I was just speaking to someone earlier today that was saying,
you know, is it extraterrestrial?
Speaker 1: What do you think it is?
Speaker 2: And I said, well, you know, maybe it's some of
a lot of different things, and extraterrestrial could be one
of them. But interdimensional does answer a lot of the
puzzles that people claim they see. And I'm talking about
when things blink in and out, you know, when I
remember I've.
Speaker 1: Used this recently.
Speaker 2: I think I said this when Francis Cheramudo, who is
one of the Ariel School incidents' children witnesses, said that
the being was running toward the pool and it was
blinking out and blinking in ahead of itself. He said,
if you can imagine that, it was hard for him
to describe. But I mean when I hear things like that,
you think, you know, interdimensional may answer something like that.
Speaker 1: How would they?
Speaker 2: You know, that's there's so many things to try to
figure out. How how how does that work? How does
that work coming in and out of a dimension? And
it does it have to do with time? Is it
a time element? Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it something else? You know?
Speaker 2: And you mentioned quantum, uh, you know quantum mechanics, and
you know that is there's so many things about that
that are just baffling and unknowable.
Speaker 1: Basically, so you.
Speaker 4: Mentioned you mentioned the aerial saying, which is by far
one of the my gosh, man to give a newcomer.
Speaker 3: If a newcomer said, what where should I start?
Speaker 4: That one in rendal rndlsom that roswell but also rendalsom
more than the same thing.
Speaker 3: I think it was.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it was Pennington, Penniston or or
the other one, but uh, one of them mentioned the
same type of thing that when they got.
Speaker 3: Closer to the.
Speaker 4: The craft or whatever it was, that there was some
kind of we time. He said he felt like he
was walking through like a like almost like water like
and and that to me, that does implicate a space
time component. And then if you watched a recent Disclosure
movie that came out at Christmas time, they talk about
that space bubble and I'm thinking about Renderssom, I'm thinking
about Ariel and I'm like, this makes this makes sense
if you're thinking about it dimensionally or space time, you
know that that it's a malleable thing that we're actually
looking it's distorted. And that also would explain why the
as so many people have this missing time element, this
component that that's just perplexing. Where you know they're driving
down a road and then and and they they know
it's only two hours to their house but they arrived
at their house five hours later. With that that time,
I do think that there's something with space time that's
that's involved there.
Speaker 1: I did too.
Speaker 2: And you know, one of my favorite encounters that I
ever talked to someone personally about Albert Wayne, he's spent
on you know, I recorded with him. He mentions that
the whole situation where he had this encounter, he felt
it like he felt like he was in the matrix
where everything was going, you know, very slow like that.
And also people also comment on an absence of sound.
Speaker 1: Which is really kind of spooky too.
Speaker 2: You know, these things that there it's more than one
person when you hear more than one person say, and
they have no idea who the other person is saying
the same thing, you know, in other words, it's not
out there basically, and they're basically saying that they have
a very similar thing happened.
Speaker 1: It's really really puzzling.
Speaker 4: And you got the whole time traveling aspect of it too,
the time that the future time travelers the Michael Masters
his book, Yes I identified flying saucers. I hands down
my favorite book. I've read a lot of them, and
it was it was science y and you know, it's
very technical, but man, because he he has so many
i think advanced degrees and he uses that to really
lay down this framework and explain exactly where he's coming from.
Speaker 3: It's a wild book.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I really like Michael. He's he's he's a
really great guy.
Speaker 2: And you know, I mentioned to him last time I
had him on the show, was like, what if these
are indeed from the future, But what if it's not
us from the future.
Speaker 1: What if we're gone and it's another.
Speaker 2: Species you know, evolves, you know, which is very and
when you think about ninety nine percent of all you
know life on Earth has has become extinct. You know,
we can't say that we're going to be here forever,
but who knows, you know, if something else will evolve eventually,
depending on how long the planet's and you know, habitable,
I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Look, it's like the Time Machine book where the morlocks
right in the Underground Society the Breakaway.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael's got a great, great thought.
He was wondering why more people of science don't, you know,
think this topic is worth exploring in so many ways?
You know, I mean I was with him when he
was chewing someone out. It was pretty funny someone else
on the science field.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, so I think this is really great.
But now let me try to get some information from you.
When someone says that they somehow manifest or when someone
claims that people are manifesting like a nuts and bolts,
how would that.
Speaker 1: Craft? How would that work?
Speaker 3: I think where?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: And I'm glad you said that because it means it
made me realize I forgot to mention remote viewing.
Speaker 3: You know this remote viewer thing too that.
Speaker 4: People laugh at, but it's I mean, look at the study.
Look at what was the stargate? Was that the help
off stargate? And you'll figure he's the one that's that's
researching the UFO story as well. I think it's some
really strange stuff. It's really strange.
Speaker 1: Mmm mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: And so as far as where's a connection though, as
far as manifesting like a person, who can I like say,
I was outside and all of a sudden, the UFO
goes over me and I wasn't expecting one, but it's there.
Speaker 1: How how would I have manifested that?
Speaker 3: Well? I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, maybe we should talk to Stephen Greer, because
he's the I do think that it has something to
do with that. That's where That's where I'm going with it.
Do I think the remote viewing, the telepathy, the e
SC it's the same thing. It's tapping into the same field,
and so so we're we're able to connect through that
through that telepathy and I and it's so are they
whoever they are the the inhabitants of the field. I
don't know what they are, interdimensional beings. They they can
tap to us with telepathy. They can use it as
well as as you know better the weekend. U is
my thought that there's a there's a there's an e
SE telepathy type like that's what That's what Stephen Greer says,
at least I've never done the CE five protocol or anything,
you know where we're I've gone.
Speaker 3: With a group of people. But what do you think
about that? Do you think there's there's a is that credible?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Uh? I have my thoughts about career and uh, you know,
I mean, I think he did a really good job
in the very beginning, but then I think that he's
kind of fallen by the wayside as far as you know,
trying to. I hate to say it, but to make
money out of what he's doing, I think too much
of his uh And then he's a bit of a narcissist,
you know. I mean he kind of puts that out there.
But but anyway, and I also have a story about him.
I'm not going to ever repeat because I don't want
to get a lot into a lawsuit, but someday maybe
I will if I have more evidence. But anyway, I
think there could be something. You know, Chris Bledsoe, there's
something going on with him.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that works.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had him on the show before, but
there's so many people have witnessed things happening around him.
Speaker 1: It's bizarre. Now.
Speaker 2: He was out at Contact in the Desert last year.
I was there and talked to him a couple of times,
but I know that people had gone out with him
and supposedly he manifested something, but other people were saying no,
that was on their tracker as a satellite or this
or that, you know, like everything that he supposedly manifested.
Speaker 1: Then was you know, prosaic.
Speaker 2: But anyway, I do think there is something going on
with that. But I think it's also kind of interesting,
and what are your thoughts on when two different people
see an object or they have an you know, a
encounter together and they both see something entirely different. Have
you ever looked into that?
Speaker 4: That's That's where I think the signal comes from. That's
why I tied in that the purple and black golden
white dress thing. That was the best analogy that I
could think of to come up with it, because you're
looking at the same thing, but you're interpreting differently, and
so it could be different reasons that we're each interpreting
it differently.
Speaker 3: But like I thought of it kind of like as.
Speaker 4: Being tuned into the same radio signal or the same
channel or the television set, you know, the old television
sets or a radio and that that's where my thought is.
That is that for whatever reason, we're the same signal
as reaching both of our brains, but your brain is
seeing it as black and purple dress and my brain
is seeing it as a golden white dress.
Speaker 3: That's all I got.
Speaker 4: It seems to happen and over and over again, it
seems to happen. That's that's the analogy that I could
use to kind of pull it together.
Speaker 3: Though my mind.
Speaker 2: I was trying to find that purple in that purple
dress thing cycle pull it up online, but I can't
quite find it right now. But yeah, I do remember
when that was going around and wow, that was really something.
I think I saw purple, but I'm not sure. I
don't know what type of personality that means I have.
Speaker 3: Well then it.
Speaker 4: Changes then then, like one minute you can be looking
at it and see purple and black and the next
minute you're seeing what the other person was seeing.
Speaker 3: So it switches.
Speaker 4: But my guess is something along the lines of that
is happening. I use that analogy because just about everybody
and their mom knows that internet meme or whatever you
want to call it. But to me, it's just taking
these stories and these anecdotes and the literature and trying
to come up with the best way to say, yeah,
it seems to be happening.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's kind of like that.
Speaker 4: I don't know why it's happening, but to me, to
explain it, like the purple and black dress thing was
a way to get people to understand it. We're looking
at the same exact thing, seeing different things.
Speaker 3: Why it's crazy now.
Speaker 2: Also, it makes me kind of wonder, like if it
comes down to the point of disclosure, like everyone likes
to talk about disclosure, whether it's happening, going to happen,
or not happen, and all that, But if it's also
like something that is so bizarre, like it's involved in
this type of situation, how could there be disclosure because
they wouldn't No one would really know exactly what it is, right, And.
Speaker 4: I think that that's why we're in a situation that
we're in. I don't think that they're denying that there's
some kind of phenomenon happening. At this point, the government's
pretty much admitted that. Everybody's come out and say it.
I mean, our president's are saying it. The president, when
did that ever happen? Even they were seeing things, but
they never came out and said aliens are real. Obama
saying that, and then and then Trump coming out and
there's like a wrestling match between the two of them.
But yeah, I think that they've all and I think
that Trump's right into it. By the way, He's got
some buddies. Rubio knows what's going on, his son knows
what's going on. I think Sump knows what's going.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just how are they supposed to?
Speaker 4: That's that's kind of why I'm doing this because it's
some really complicated, weird, esoteric, bizarre things in this field.
It doesn't make them untrue. And I've been looking at
this for over thirty years, and the literature points to
there being something strange that's happening. We do the best
we can to describe it. But I think that that's
probably why they can't say anything, because how in the
world do you disclose.
Speaker 1: This right right now?
Speaker 2: Do you get any pushback at all from what you
do professionally and looking into this, I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll see after this podcast.
Speaker 1: People know that you have an interest in UFOs professionally.
I mean, have you ever talked about it?
Speaker 3: I wear it on my sleeve. I mean I everywhere
I go, I'm all about UFOs.
Speaker 4: That's all I falcam now Now, Okay, I really appreciate
you taking the time to talk to me about it,
because my wife certainly won't you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I have to talk to anybody that I
can about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I got to just tell the listener who's
listening to the audio podcast go ahead and open up
your shirt again.
Speaker 1: It's a Roswell shirt. Is that what you're wearing? Yeah,
Roswell nineteen forty seven. Yeah, pretty funny. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, that's I think it's definitely you know
you mentioned earlier, you talked about, you know, the twenty
seventeen New York Times article. I think since that time,
it's much more relaxing to be able to talk about
this subject because it's not so much of a taboo
topic to talk about. You know, people are more accepting
of it.
Speaker 3: For sure, I wouldn't have done this. I mean I'm
being honest.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have done this ten years ago, you know, right,
But there's a little bit more of a platform now
to speak on it, and you've got some credible people
making comments, you know, like Secretary of State. I mean,
you know what I'm saying, there's there's some credible people
that are involved in this thing now that that yeah,
it makes it a little bit easier to talk about.
Speaker 3: However, that the.
Speaker 4: More, like I said, the stranger, the high strangeness parts
of this this thing, that's the spot that, uh, it's
really still hard to talk about. And because it's it's
hard to wrap your mind around it. The book skin
Walkers at the Kindagon.
Speaker 3: Have you read that, Martin?
Speaker 2: No, No, I read the Skinwalker book, the first one,
but not prior. I know which one you're talking about. Yes,
but I did not read that one. No, man, it's
really good.
Speaker 4: Huh So So I well, first of all, I wanted
to ask you what it was like being at one
of those congressional hearings, because my mind blown.
Speaker 3: That must have been something just surreal for you.
Speaker 1: But it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fact that we're.
Speaker 4: I'm losing my train of thought here, congressional hearings, the
congressional hearings. Yeah, the fact that they're they're coming out
now and and they're, uh, you're gonna have to remind
me what we thought.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Mark, I just lost track of what I
was saying.
Speaker 1: That's okay, we were talking. Here's a picture, right, Yeah
I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but anyway, No, you asked me if I read
the book of Mark.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh my.
Speaker 4: Gosh, because because it's so I understand now why there
were some people upset about that the recent documentary that
came out where they really didn't talk about some of
the strength the high.
Speaker 3: Strangeness, and that means a disclosure that one.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, they it was great and I loved it,
and I think that it did the job that it
should do. But they did not touch on this high
strange and stuff that we're talking about here, some of
these other things that I think tie into this and
that they were happening on on that ranch. You know,
that the hitch hiker effect. And you've got people like
the prestigious people that were on that case, like Lukatski.
I mean, what was he the director of the CIA,
talking about going to the Skinwalker ranch and bringing Phenomena
back with him. I mean, that's some really really freaky stuff,
and not only for not only him, but his family
was experiencing this, and so you've got you've got this
aspect of it that's I think, really really freaky. And
that's that's the part that's I think maybe they're stuck
on that for this disclosure thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I had, like the slightest I had
thought about visiting Skinwalker Ranch and had you know, an
invite from Brandon at one point, and I talked to
someone else in the UFO world and they said, are
you crazy? You know, do you what about the hitchhiker effect.
Don't you ever think about that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And then you know, I mean I didn't. It's always
one of those things I think, Oh, that had never
happened to me, But you never know. I mean, that
wouldn't be fun, you know. From what I gather, that
is such a bad good place. Yeah, it's such an
odd place anyway. I mean, I do think that things
are happening. Maybe maybe they pump it up a little
bit for the show, you know, but but I think
that things weird things have happened there for a long time.
And why there, you know, that's the biggest question. Is
there something that attracts whatever it is you know, to
that place? Is there a portal or or what you know?
I mean, that's we read that book, the first book,
and that it sounds like that was a situation, at
least a possible situation when they saw that being crawl
out of there. All these scientists are sitting there there's
they didn't film it, which is ridiculous, but they see
something coming out of like a portal and then standing
up and then walking away. I mean, come on, that's bizarre.
Speaker 4: And to me, that's again I would, I would think
I would think about this, this framework that I'm presents,
and to me, that's, yeah, a portal to reaching this
dimension or whatever it is, this field where where things
can come come through.
Speaker 3: I believe that that's what's going on there. I mean,
how how else do you describe cryptids and UFOs and
paranormal events and all these things that.
Speaker 4: You're talking about that's in that book and tie it
together and one To me, the inner dimensional portal explanation
really makes sense. Of course, I'm not going to sit
here and say that's the only thing that it can be.
Who knows what's really going on, but it seems it
seems a way to explain it and kind of wrap
your head around it.
Speaker 2: Right, So where are you going to go from here
with with what you're doing? Do you have plans to
move forward? Maybe write some on it or something.
Speaker 3: I don't know. What do you think? Do you think
I should?
Speaker 2: Well? I think you're onto something, you know, but it's
still very hard for me to really get my head
around the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But I think you're wrong to something, and.
Speaker 2: I think you could, you know, move into finding out
more and you know, if you keep at it, I'd
love to.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's been a lifelong interest and you know,
it's I've wanted to contribute to the field. My my
heroes are people in this field, and if I tried
to go down a list, I'd forget too many people.
But you know, like I don't, I don't. I'm not
a sports guy. I don't care about Hollywood. My heroes
are James Fox and Jacques Vallet and you know you
and Jimmy Church and the whole list that have been
putting the work and even but prior to the important
thing is doing this prior to twenty seventeen, because a
lot of us wouldn't have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very good. Yeah, and when I started, it
was a lot.
Speaker 2: When I started in twenty eleven, I was careful, you know,
out there as a antique and fine art or praiser
like talking about it. I wouldn't talk about it, you know,
I'd be afraid to. You know, I figure it would
affect me some way. And it did actually one time,
you know, and I found out afterwards. But no need
to go into that. But anyway, it's been a real pleasure.
I'm so glad that you contacted me and I one
of the things I like to do is I like
to have interesting guests that aren't on other shows that
I get to talk to them first or whatever, and
this idea. And so when you contacted me, I said,
this sounds like it would be an interest, you would
be an interesting guest, and you were.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: And I really thank you for letting me your ear
because seriously, as you know, a lot of people won't
listen to me talk about this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: So no, I really do appreciate Martin meant the world
of me that you accepted that. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Well, great, all right, everyone, so thanks so much, and
we'll be back next week at the regular time and
it'll be a live show I think with Mark de Antonio,
but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: All right, Take care, take care,