1 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,279 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. 2 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,679 Speaker 2: I'm Martin Willis your host, and I've got a very 3 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:22,239 interesting guest for you tonight, Jay Hammond, and he's a 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,480 school psychologist and he's come up with a very interesting 5 00:00:25,559 --> 00:00:29,640 theory in regards to UAP entities things like that. We're 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,000 gonna be talking to him in just a moment. I 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,679 want to thank everyone for being here tonight. This is 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,399 as a premier and you're welcome to be in chat 9 00:00:39,439 --> 00:00:42,840 while this airs. It's at the regular time on Tuesday evening. 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,479 I am out somewhere away from my phone that I 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,240 can't even use my phone, so I'm not going to 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,799 be in chat tonight, but I do thank you all 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,520 for being here and participating. 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:54,679 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for. 15 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:57,439 Speaker 2: All those who listen to the show, help with the show, 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,560 and also support the show. And anyone can do that 17 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:05,920 for an AD free experience in audio through Patreon, through 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,719 a site and you can listen on any podcast player 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,840 a AD free situation, or you can always watch uslive. 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,159 We're here every Tuesday, generally speaking live, I should say 21 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:20,480 Tuesday evenings at eight pm Eastern time, and on some 22 00:01:20,599 --> 00:01:23,200 Thursday nights at the same time eight pm. 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: And let's see. 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,519 Speaker 2: I'm going to just see if we have We do 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,719 not have a guest slated yet for next week. It 26 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:35,879 might be Mark D'Antonio. I'm not really certain at this point, 27 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:38,959 waiting to hear back if the schedule works for him. 28 00:01:39,239 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: He's always a pleasure to have on. 29 00:01:40,599 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: We're going to be talking a lot about astronomy, of course, 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,200 and the relations of a UFO's propulsion, things like that. 31 00:01:48,319 --> 00:01:51,439 Very interesting always with Mark D'Antonio. But here we go 32 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:54,159 with our guest tonight. Jay, Welcome to the show. 33 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:56,519 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,439 Speaker 4: This is surreal because I've been listening for a long time, 35 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:01,280 for about ten so it's a it's a pleasure. 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,239 Speaker 3: Martin, thank you so much. 37 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: Well, well, thank you. 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: You reached out to me and I thought you had 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,439 a very interesting thought. And well I have to say, 40 00:02:10,159 --> 00:02:13,560 you know, I mean, did you start listening to the 41 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:17,360 show because you had an experience or what was what 42 00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:18,159 was the situation? 43 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 4: Oh man, I started listening to the show because I well, 44 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,159 it all starts at Star Wars. If we're going to 45 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:24,879 be honest, I mean. 46 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: I grew I was born seventy five, so so you 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,879 know I grew up with Star. 48 00:02:28,719 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 4: Wars with seventy seven, and then the Space Shuttle program 49 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,560 was I believe what eighty one. 50 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 3: So I grew up I think, if. 51 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 4: I'm not miscorting that, but I grew up in this 52 00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:39,719 really exciting time. I had a poster of the Solar 53 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:41,759 system on my bedroom wall when I was about eight 54 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,719 years old. And then in nineteen eighty nine, you know, 55 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,080 George Knapp comes out with Bob Blazaarre's story that captivated me. 56 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,960 I know that you kind of not on the same 57 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,759 spot as I am on that one, but I do 58 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,080 believe Bob Lazarre. I've been a long time believer, and 59 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,360 I think that over the years it's just more and 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,479 more has come out that's proven a lot of the 61 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,520 things that he said to be It's consistent at least. 62 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm not here to debate, but I did. 63 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Luigi I can't remember his last name, just is putting 64 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,479 on a film about him and we were going to 65 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,360 do a debate, and I started thinking about it, and 66 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,599 I don't know if I want to go down that road, 67 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:23,120 because you know, I do get a lot of hate 68 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:26,039 mail every time I mentioned my thoughts of Baul Bazaar, 69 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,199 and it basically boils down to me thinking that he's 70 00:03:29,439 --> 00:03:34,240 probably taken on someone else's persona that knew something, because 71 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,639 he knew a lot, and it's the only thing that 72 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,879 really makes sense to me with his background, the things 73 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:43,120 that he's been in trouble for, so to speak, you know. 74 00:03:43,439 --> 00:03:47,479 But anyway, I'm not here to debate that, and so yeah, 75 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,879 we can go on, but go ahead and continue if 76 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:50,400 you would. 77 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, So I would say. 78 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,199 Speaker 4: I started college to for my teaching degree, for a 79 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,919 Bachelor in Elementary Education. And one of the classes that 80 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,479 I had to take this is when I was about thirty. 81 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:03,680 It's the second career. One of the classes I had 82 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:05,400 to take was a speech class, and so I figured, 83 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:07,400 I just put together something that I'm into that I 84 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:09,360 know a lot about, that I've already done a lot 85 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,840 of research on. So I wanted to do a speech 86 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:14,599 on UFOs, and I started reading a lot of Stanton 87 00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:17,959 Friedman's books. And really that was when it was about 88 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,959 twenty years ago. That was when I really started paying 89 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,600 attention to saying, wait a minute, there's something really here. 90 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,360 You know, if you follow along and start researching the 91 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:31,399 documents that he talks about in his Majestic twelve book, 92 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,600 Bulfos and Flying Saucers captured Betty and Barney Hill. You know, 93 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,279 he's not just talking from a place of nowhere. He's 94 00:04:39,079 --> 00:04:41,439 he's got a lot of research. And if you actually 95 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,839 follow it up and go to the FBI vaults and 96 00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:46,800 go to the places and look at these documents, it's 97 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,120 a real it's a real situation. And so that really 98 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,199 woke me up to Okay, what's going on here? And 99 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,399 then I started doing a little bit more digging. And 100 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:57,920 then twenty sixteen, I start hearing Tom DeLong talking about 101 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,120 this consciousness thing. And this is where you came along, Martin, 102 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,240 because you came to mind, because I've heard you over 103 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:06,639 the years several times saying that what are they talking about? Like, 104 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,959 it's hard for us to wrap our head around what 105 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,000 do they mean? You know, you look up, you see 106 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,439 a nuts and Bolt's craft. It's something there. What's this 107 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,680 mean with the consciousness aspect of it? And so I 108 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,480 started hearing that and I had no idea what he 109 00:05:19,519 --> 00:05:22,800 was talking about either. But over the years, and especially 110 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,160 following Leslie Keen and Ralph Blumenthal's article in twenty seventeen, 111 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,199 I started paying attention to everybody talking about that and 112 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,759 if you if you just streamed through the podcast from 113 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,040 last week, there were so many people talking about this 114 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,959 same subject. I heard just the other day on Area 115 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,160 fifty two Chris Ramsey was talking about consciously consciousness aspect. 116 00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:46,720 So long story short, what I have is not a 117 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:50,360 new theory. The research has been done for years, decades, 118 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,560 maybe even centuries, with thinkers like Valet, Carl Jung, Terence McKenna, 119 00:05:55,639 --> 00:05:57,959 all these people that have done a lot of work, 120 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:02,279 and maybe not in our field of uthology. But my 121 00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:05,720 idea is to present it as a gestalt, a whole 122 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:09,279 picture that takes all these little pieces and says, you 123 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,399 know what, this seems like. It's starting to paint a 124 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:15,800 picture of coming from all from one area, from one thing. 125 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,319 And that was kind of where I had this idea, 126 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,920 and I wanted to reach out to you specifically. You're 127 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,439 the first person whopped into my head about it. I 128 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,759 wanted to see what you thought about it. 129 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's very interesting and like you said, 130 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:30,319 you put it very well. It's hard to wrap your 131 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,439 head around it. But you know, I say often on 132 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,920 the show that I really believe that we know very 133 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:41,439 little about what is actually going on around us, And 134 00:06:41,959 --> 00:06:44,000 you know, I see evidence of this all the time, 135 00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:47,519 and I did put your graphics in this one here, 136 00:06:47,639 --> 00:06:49,720 this one I had to It kind of spreads out 137 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,360 a little further. But I don't know if you, at 138 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:53,040 any time you want to get into that and we 139 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:56,560 can go through how that all connects. I don't know 140 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,199 if you want to do that now. But have you 141 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:01,000 yourself had type of encounter? 142 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:06,079 Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because I've had what I would 143 00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:09,920 consider one, I guess, anomalous UAP encounter. 144 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: But in considering my. 145 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,199 Speaker 4: Whole life, you know, I start thinking about like times 146 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,079 that dreams have come true. 147 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,759 Speaker 3: Insight where why would I have known that? 148 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 4: Just strange phenomena like that, kind of like the the 149 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,160 Carly synchronicities. All these things started happened to me over 150 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,000 over the years that that kind of helped me to 151 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,319 paint this picture. But the UAP situation really stuck out 152 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,800 to me because I was I was coming from Tampa. 153 00:07:38,839 --> 00:07:41,279 I was coming, I guess i'd be heading north on 154 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,720 seventy five from Tampa and I look into it's it's 155 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:48,120 above where it would be where the city of Zephyr 156 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,839 Hills would be, and it was it was a all. 157 00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:54,319 I can say that my brain, as much as I 158 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:57,480 had always been into UFOs, I didn't go right to Ufoh, 159 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,079 that's a UFO. 160 00:07:58,199 --> 00:08:00,879 Speaker 3: It wasn't like that at all, which was bizarre to me. 161 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:04,079 Speaker 4: It was more like my brain was trying to formulate 162 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,920 something normal. And all I could think of when I 163 00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:10,839 was looking at this thing it was rectangular, was maybe 164 00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:13,240 it's an airplane carrying one of those banners. And I'm 165 00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:15,120 driving and I'm trying to pay attention, but you know, 166 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:16,240 this thing's got my attention. 167 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:17,959 Speaker 3: I'm looking up, I'm driving, I'm looking up. 168 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:22,959 Speaker 4: But the banner didn't make sense because there seemed to 169 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,759 be depth to this thing. It looked like a rectangular 170 00:08:25,839 --> 00:08:31,199 prism in the sky. And it was very odd. The string, 171 00:08:31,319 --> 00:08:34,720 the high strangeness that happened with this Martin was when 172 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:36,919 I got home and my wife sees me. She's a 173 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,320 principal at an elementary school. I'm a school psychologist to 174 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,399 other schools. But she sees me. I get home, she says, hey, 175 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:45,559 did you see so and so's face post on Facebook? 176 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:48,240 I said no, So she showed me his post. Our 177 00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:50,799 buddy from the school that we both worked at, and 178 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:54,080 his Facebook post Martin said, Am I the only crazy one? 179 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:55,879 Or did anybody else see a flying I think he 180 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,279 called it a square. I said a rectangle. He said square. 181 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,000 It was a little difference, but he saw the same 182 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:03,639 thing that I saw, and I just I have goose 183 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:06,799 flesh now thinking about it. It was very strange to 184 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,559 me that, Okay, so there was something there in the sky. 185 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: I started looking into it. 186 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,279 Speaker 4: Did anybody report anything, move finds the news around zeph Hill, 187 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:19,720 local news, nothing, nobody mentions anything about this whatsoever. And 188 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,279 that was what really bothered me about it, was that 189 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,120 this guy that I worked with, he's a pe coach 190 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,879 at the elementary school that I was subbing at. 191 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 3: At the time I was going, I was still going 192 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:30,399 to school. 193 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 4: And you know, we weren't buddies yet. We became friends, 194 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,559 but we weren't together. He was wherever he I don't 195 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,080 even know where he was. I was on my way 196 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,799 home from probably one of my classes. And so we 197 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,440 both see this thing that nobody else sees. So that 198 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,120 ties into to my theory. That's one of the main 199 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,200 experiences that I had that really led me to what 200 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,879 I'm going to be talking about. Another one involves my 201 00:09:54,919 --> 00:09:56,799 work as a school psychologist, and I do want to 202 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:02,799 be careful here because of confidentiality, but I've if you 203 00:10:02,919 --> 00:10:05,759 count my internship year, this is my I'm finishing my 204 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,960 sixth year as a school psychologist, and in as many years, 205 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:14,840 I've had six children from seven to fourteen, ages seven 206 00:10:14,879 --> 00:10:18,159 to fourteen tell me that they were seeing what they. 207 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,039 Speaker 3: Refer to as shadow figures. I had. 208 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 4: I had one, Yeah, I had one student in my 209 00:10:23,799 --> 00:10:28,679 office actively hallucinating, telling me appointing, there's one there, there's 210 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,639 one there. And another student I ended up having to 211 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:37,360 have hospitalized because if he was actively hallucinating. So it's 212 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:39,799 you know, it's not easy to talk about these things, 213 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,799 and I consider myself an impath and I take it 214 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,159 to heart and it's it's not easy work. But as 215 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,879 this kept occurring, I start looking into it. Every single 216 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:51,799 one of them had had one thing in common, and 217 00:10:51,919 --> 00:10:56,360 that was trauma, trauma experience, and psychologists know that. 218 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: That trauma can cause. 219 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 4: Hallucinations, it can cause temporary psychosis. But it just was 220 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,240 What was interesting to me was the way that they 221 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,240 describe these things. From like I said, from ages seven 222 00:11:10,279 --> 00:11:14,320 to fourteen, they all described the same almost verbatim, the 223 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,320 same exact thing. So that was another situation. So besides 224 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,879 my own seeing something that situation, it all led to 225 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:27,919 me kind of in reading tons and tons of books 226 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,120 and listening to a lot of podcasters like yourself and 227 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,879 your guests. That's how I came up with this kind 228 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,440 of idea. And actually it was during a meditation that 229 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,240 that not the idea itself, but how to present it 230 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,559 kind of came into my head. 231 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 2: And do you want me to pull up the that 232 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:48,360 chart that you sent me? And I don't know if 233 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,799 this one is very clear to read and maybe more 234 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,159 of a simple way too. 235 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: I think that's the best one. 236 00:11:54,919 --> 00:11:56,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's the best one because the way 237 00:11:56,919 --> 00:11:59,279 that this is the field, that the idea of the 238 00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:01,360 field is in a sense, and that's that helps me 239 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,279 to explain what kind of is in my head. 240 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 3: And again this isn't. 241 00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:09,279 Speaker 4: Anything new everybody, for your listeners, this is taking brilliant 242 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,559 thinkers from the past and trying to come up with Okay, 243 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:14,679 let's make sense of all of this and see if 244 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,039 we can explain everything that we're seeing. So the idea 245 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:21,480 is that there's some kind of field, just like Carl 246 00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:24,879 Jung says, calls it the collective unconscious. We can consider 247 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:28,799 it that, we can look at it as another dimension, 248 00:12:29,159 --> 00:12:31,440 we can look at it as even heaven. I explained 249 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,600 it to my family as maybe this is where we 250 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:36,200 are before we're. 251 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 3: Born and where we go after we die. 252 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 4: It's the place that if you're having an astral projection, 253 00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:43,480 you're you're interacting with it. 254 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 3: It's a place where these near. 255 00:12:44,799 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 4: Death experiences that we've all heard about, I mean where 256 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,480 crazy near death experiences where somebody is completely dead and 257 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,720 yet they when they are brought back to life, they 258 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,159 tell everybody in the room what what occurred? Like, you know, 259 00:12:57,159 --> 00:12:59,759 they'll say something like with a real specific, detailed woman 260 00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:02,039 in a red dress came in, she said such and such, 261 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,559 and the doctors are astonished. So in your death experiences, 262 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,480 I'm including in this. It's it's the same thing that 263 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,679 all these thinkers have been talking about. 264 00:13:12,919 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: But my idea is that. 265 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:18,919 Speaker 4: It seems to me that human beings are able to 266 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,200 access this field. We can tap into it, whether that's 267 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:26,879 during meditation. That's that's how I try to meditate as 268 00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:29,159 much as I can, and I have had and that's 269 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,440 that's another big piece of this that I'll tell you about. 270 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:33,720 Something that came to me during a meditation once. But 271 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,159 meditation and altered states, trauma and extreme emotions, these are 272 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,559 always that humans can access this this realmless field. 273 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:43,399 Speaker 3: Uh. 274 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:49,039 Speaker 4: Terrance McKenna psychedelics and chemical means again, Carl Young, sleep 275 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,279 and dreams and. 276 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: Artists. 277 00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 4: I am a musician, you know, like Paul McCartney saying, 278 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,159 yesterday just popped into his head in a dream. 279 00:13:59,240 --> 00:13:59,399 Speaker 3: You know. 280 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 4: I idea is that we're getting we're getting information from 281 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,480 somewhere and the way that I can describe it. I'm 282 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,840 an educator, so I try to take complex ideas and 283 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,159 break them down so that, you know, young young people 284 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,320 can understand it. Young people can consider this either like 285 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,720 like stranger things the upside down. I mean, they're making 286 00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:22,519 TV shows about it for crying out loud, but the 287 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,360 upside down is kind of like this this realm. Anybody 288 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,480 else that's tech savvy kind of think about it like 289 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:32,240 an iCloud. So I was telling my team at work 290 00:14:32,279 --> 00:14:33,919 today when I was trying to explain this to them, 291 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,840 and they're looking at me like I had two heads. 292 00:14:36,879 --> 00:14:39,120 I said, you know, an eye cloud, we we are 293 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:42,600 able to retrieve information out of this invisible thing. We 294 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:46,039 don't see it. It's not there, but we can get information. 295 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,799 And not only can we retrieve information from it, we 296 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,039 can make that information tangible. We can print it and 297 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:54,919 hold it, we can burn it on a CDR and 298 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,519 listen to it. So we're able to interact with this 299 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,639 information that we're getting from the e cloud. And I 300 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,399 kind of compare this to the same thing when I 301 00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:07,039 meditate several years ago. I I meditated because when I 302 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,240 started doing this job, I felt I thought to myself, 303 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:12,200 if I'm going to be recommending this to students, I 304 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,919 want to I don't want to be a hypocrite. You know, 305 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,399 I'm not going to tell kids, why don't you try 306 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,200 meditating if I've never meditated. So I tried meditating, and 307 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,120 I ended up really enjoying it. I really got to 308 00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:22,000 that point where I could get myself into that calm 309 00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:27,320 Alfa state. And what happened really really scared me. It 310 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,240 was during the Gabby Patito event. Do you remember what 311 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:32,639 I'm talking about with the missing girl? 312 00:15:34,039 --> 00:15:38,559 Speaker 2: I do that I don't recall specifically, but it sounds 313 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:39,360 very familiar. 314 00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: Yes. 315 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:41,759 Speaker 3: So she was she was a young girl that went missing. 316 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 4: She was traveling with her I believe boyfriend or fiance 317 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:49,320 and she went missing, and it was on the news. 318 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:50,039 Speaker 3: I wasn't. 319 00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 4: I wasn't wrapped up in this story, you know, but 320 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:55,399 but it was in the news. 321 00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:57,919 Speaker 3: I certainly wasn't. It wasn't something that. 322 00:15:57,879 --> 00:15:59,799 Speaker 4: I was saying, I'm going to go and meditate on this, 323 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,200 you know. That's that's just wasn't happening. But I meditated. 324 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,440 And I don't know how else to describe this. I've 325 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:08,960 I've described it to my family and friends, but I 326 00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:10,919 try not to tell to me people because it sounds 327 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:11,519 a little weird. 328 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: A voice, I'm meditating, I'm in that, I'm in that 329 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,799 South estate. I'm calm, nothing else is happening. In a voice, 330 00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:22,279 it was like a disembodied voice, clear as day. 331 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,399 Speaker 4: It was different than that voice you hear when you 332 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,200 hear yourself reading or thinking that that voice in your head, 333 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,440 Like it wasn't the same as that. It was something different, 334 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,480 and it said, clear as day, Gabby Patito was strangled. 335 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: And it woke me. 336 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 4: Out of my meditation, and I was like, well, that 337 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:41,960 was strange. And I went and I told we had 338 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,879 we have Sunday dinner with my family on Sundays and 339 00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:46,799 so I went and told the family that was there, 340 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,159 and they're going, okay, Jay, whatever, you're getting. 341 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,519 Speaker 3: Into some real, real weird stuff. 342 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 4: Two weeks later, it was announced on the news Gabby 343 00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:55,559 Patito was strangled. But the thing was, like I said, 344 00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:58,840 it wasn't like a thought it was. It seemed different, 345 00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:00,919 and I didn't doubt it for one second. It just 346 00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:04,039 seemed like information that I knew it. I told people, 347 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,599 and then that's what ended up being the case. So 348 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,720 I think that meditation is another way, it could be 349 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:16,079 another way to access this field to get information where 350 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,799 otherwise you're not going to be getting it. But I 351 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:20,559 also think, and this is where it paints a little 352 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:23,119 bit of a different picture, that if you look at 353 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,880 that visual, one of the things that it says one 354 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,200 of the modes of access to the field is rituals. 355 00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:32,680 And I think that people can use it for innocuous reasons, 356 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,200 and I think. 357 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:35,039 Speaker 3: That people can use it for nefarious reasons. 358 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 4: And you've got people like Jack Parsons, who, for your listeners, 359 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,960 he's the father of American rocketry. Check out what some 360 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:46,720 of his behaviors were on the side, some of his 361 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,960 extracurricular he was participating in rituals, he was a freemason, 362 00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:54,640 He had all kinds of things. So my point is, 363 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,839 in this gestalt that I'm trying to present, I think 364 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,119 that it can even tie in to what we've been 365 00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:03,279 hearing lately about, you know, and I'm I don't want 366 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:05,960 to get too into it in conspiratorial with the Epstein files, 367 00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:09,799 some of the people in those files, I think maybe 368 00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:13,400 tapping into this for some not so nice reasons. 369 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:20,079 Speaker 2: Whoah, you know, when what you're talking about some sometimes 370 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,960 makes me think of a couple of different things, like hyahuasca, 371 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,039 people talking about, you know, mushrooms and things like that. 372 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,319 I mean, I actually had someone that I would never 373 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,279 think would ever talk about UFOs or aliens or anything 374 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,000 like that told me that an alien came to visit 375 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:41,480 her while she was taking this. She was taking it 376 00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:44,160 for because she's very, very stressed all the time and 377 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,480 she was trying to get She did it through like 378 00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:49,240 a medical procedure, but not a medical procedure, but I 379 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,039 mean it was it was because I know it's I 380 00:18:52,039 --> 00:18:55,359 think it's illegal. I'm not sure, but anyway, she had 381 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,400 she did it through some type of office or something, 382 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,480 but she was convinced that there was an alien and 383 00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:05,480 I was contacted yesterday. Let me just throw this at you. 384 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,279 Yesterday someone wanted me to interview doctor Christopher Macklin. Digital 385 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:16,880 over digital over stimulation, and toxic technology gateways for entity 386 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:22,079 attachments and negative energies. That's basically what his interview about. 387 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,799 But I mean, it sounds like there's all some type 388 00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,000 of connections with what you are looking into. 389 00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, different ways. 390 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 4: I just think it's it's a way to tie tie 391 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,279 it all together and another piece of this framework that 392 00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:36,319 I'm working on, and it's a work in progress. I mean, 393 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,400 we're always learning, you know, and there's people doing really 394 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,480 really good work in this field currently. But there's there's 395 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:47,960 a I look at it like a signal, Like our 396 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,480 brains are almost like receivers to this signal. And this 397 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,839 this field of consciousness, the I cloud, the upside down, 398 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:54,759 whatever you want to refer. 399 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 3: To it as the astrol field. It sends out signals. 400 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 4: And our brain is maybe this is just a guess, 401 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,640 is interpreting it. But this is where my UAP thing 402 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,319 came in Martin and trying to figure out why it 403 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,599 was that high strangeness existed around that sighting, why nobody 404 00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:15,319 else talked about it. 405 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:16,519 Speaker 3: Why only Fred and I saw it? 406 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 4: I started thinking about do you remember the internet thing 407 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,640 that went around a couple of years ago, the golden. 408 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,759 Speaker 3: White, purple and black dress. 409 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 4: Yes, okay, I think if we think about it like that, 410 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:33,160 we're you take two people. You're looking at the same signal. 411 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:35,839 We're both looking at the same exact thing, but our 412 00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:40,559 brain is interpreting it differently. It's interpreting the signal differently. 413 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:42,440 I see a purple and black dress, but you're sitting 414 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,240 there looking at it, and you're saying, no, it's white 415 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:44,599 and gold. 416 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:47,039 Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Same thing with that Yanni 417 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,519 Laurel audio. 418 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 4: Clip where you listen to it, and if you're looking 419 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,640 at the word, you're hearing whichever word you're looking at. 420 00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 3: And I think that. 421 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 4: Maybe what's what's I'm proposing that what's happening is that 422 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,559 this cloud, this this field, our brains are are interpreting 423 00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:08,119 these signals coming from it in different ways. So Fred 424 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,319 and I, I'm sorry, I just said my buddy's name 425 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,400 that saw this thing. We were tuned to the same channel. 426 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,160 We were tuned on the same frequency. And that's why 427 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,480 I'm saying, I'm proposing that's why we saw it, and 428 00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:22,640 it wasn't all over the news for whatever reason. 429 00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 3: Now you've also got you know. 430 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:30,079 Speaker 4: Where where Jacques Vallet Valet's research comes in in his 431 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:36,319 book Passport to What is It? Magonia? Yeah, it's it's 432 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,440 looked at differently, whether through through culture, through time. You know, 433 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,000 a couple hundred years ago, maybe people were seeing God, 434 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:49,799 angels and demons. Before that, maybe fairies. But it's it's 435 00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:52,519 also that that cultural lens that Valet talks about, I 436 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:53,599 think is really important. 437 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 3: We're interpreting. 438 00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 4: It's I'm not saying that the things are not there. 439 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,079 I'm saying that that they're a real thing. I do 440 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,319 you think that they're a real thing, but that our 441 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:05,680 brain is somehow it's a signal that from this cloud 442 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,400 that we're interpreting that makes us see exactly what it 443 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,920 is that we're seeing and experiencing. 444 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,759 Speaker 2: Now I have to tell you about the I spoke 445 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:19,920 to an author and also a personal friend of mine 446 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,079 who is an eyewitness to this situation. It's called the 447 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:30,000 Linley Street Cottage, I believe in Bridgeport, Connecticut. It's a 448 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,319 little tiny house and there were some major poulter Geist 449 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:39,759 activity going on there where my friend was actually there. 450 00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:41,480 He was called in to go there. 451 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: It's Paul Eno. He passed away a few years ago. 452 00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:48,599 Speaker 2: Paul was right there and with the police department and 453 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,119 the fire department, and they all watched a two hundred 454 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,000 pound refrigerator lift right off the ground and go slamming 455 00:22:55,039 --> 00:23:00,400 across the room into a wall, and they're all wat this. 456 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: Now, there was a. 457 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: Ten year old adopted girl that had been abused, and 458 00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:09,599 it was a terrible thing because she was being picked 459 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,039 on at school and all these things were happening. It 460 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,279 was out of control, and as soon as she was 461 00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,839 out of the house it stopped. So there was a 462 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,920 connection between the little girl and everything that was going 463 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:22,440 on there. 464 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,319 Speaker 1: That's wild as bizarre as it sounds. 465 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,599 Speaker 4: Yep, And it seems like and this is where I've 466 00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,480 heard some more of the conspiratorial side of things. 467 00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 3: But it seems like. 468 00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:38,079 Speaker 4: How however, the worst the trauma is that the person experiences, 469 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,359 or the worst the deed is that the person is 470 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,119 using to try to access this fields. It's a stronger 471 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:50,079 access method those that are using it for nefarious evil purposes, 472 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,279 you know, like you want to you know, I don't know. 473 00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,079 Speaker 3: Sex magic or whatever the. 474 00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 4: Weird things are the people do the rituals. If the 475 00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:05,759 people that are engaging in those types of activities, it 476 00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:10,160 seems like a more direct pathway too. But you're gonna 477 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,839 get evil out of it, you're gonna you're you're not 478 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,039 going to get anything good out of it. But I'm 479 00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:17,279 wondering if that's what's going on too, And I think, yeah, 480 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,440 the poltergeist thing, I think that it all can be 481 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,160 wrapped up into this one, this one interdimensional you know, 482 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,160 and years ago I was I was all about the 483 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,920 extraterrestrial hypothesis. I thought for sure I had it wrapped up. 484 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,799 They were from uh uh, what is it? Proxima centori 485 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,720 for your light years away? And I still think that 486 00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:38,759 maybe some you know, that's possible. It would take them 487 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,160 for years to get here. 488 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: Well, as far as we know, we may not no 489 00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:49,640 other ways they can figure out. 490 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: A type of physics. And that's what I'm saying. 491 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the only ones that can get 492 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,039 their nuts and boats are approximate century. Anything else further 493 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,519 than that, I think is using what I'm talking about 494 00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:06,519 is using this field. Is you're talking interdimensional travel, because yeah, 495 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,799 they're having to use some kind of different physics to 496 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,440 get here from there, and that. 497 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,519 Speaker 3: That closes off a lot of people. 498 00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 4: They said that there's no way that they can get 499 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,400 here from from from there to here. But I mean, come, 500 00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:21,319 let's look at quantum physics. There's just too many discoveries 501 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:23,279 and too much research in the field that shows it. 502 00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:25,839 Speaker 3: Number one, we're not going to be using rocket fuel. 503 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,519 Speaker 4: I think that this interdimensional hypothesis is the is the key. 504 00:25:29,559 --> 00:25:31,720 And it also kind of scares me a little bit 505 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:34,559 because last year I was I was developing a different 506 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:38,359 framework called that I was calling uty education educators for 507 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:42,359 UAP Disclosure and Inquiry, and I was I was trying 508 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,839 to collect a group of educators. I had a principal 509 00:25:44,839 --> 00:25:48,039 body of mine. I had a PhD psychologist friend of 510 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:51,839 mine that was that was interested to try to take 511 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,039 this into and it may sound silly, but to take 512 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:57,400 it into the education realm, because I think that it's 513 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,039 going to be important for for for us to work 514 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,279 with with people through this. This is this is some 515 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,240 montological shock, shocking information, you know, like whenever disclosure happens, 516 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,480 it's going to be a shock. And and so my 517 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,200 idea was, well, let's let's look forward. Let's be forward 518 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,519 thinking about this, and you know, we're working in the schools. 519 00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,200 Let's let's think about how we can bring it into 520 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:20,880 the school system. 521 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 3: But then I. 522 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,079 Speaker 4: Start putting together all these ideas and I'm thinking, you 523 00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:28,119 know what, the et hypothesis is the most prosaic out 524 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,480 of all these ideas. 525 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 3: It's it's the least it's the least scary to me. 526 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,319 I hope that they're. 527 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 4: Aliens from proximate sensory because the inner dimensional thing, the 528 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,880 the the fortresses in our oceans that they're talking about, now, 529 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,960 all these other hypotheses that are looking like, you know me, 530 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,400 let's let's give it some credence a little bit scarier. 531 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,119 So I completely you know, I took it and I 532 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,000 did that with it because it was like, all right, 533 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:55,759 I thought that I. 534 00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 3: Knew what I was talking about. 535 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 4: But the more it seems like the more you do 536 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:01,960 research into this field, it's almost crazier that it gets. 537 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 3: And I thought, yeah, so this. 538 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: Is I agree with that. 539 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is scary stuff. So I said, no more, 540 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,839 I'm not even gonna worry about bringing in the schools. 541 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,680 Let somebody else do that, because this is scary. 542 00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 2: I remember when Louel Azando said, what if we're not 543 00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:20,160 the top of the food chain, you know, what if 544 00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:22,240 something else has been here all along? 545 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:23,079 Speaker 1: You know. 546 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,839 Speaker 2: And I've tried to get him to elaborate on that, 547 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,160 you know, especially the last time I had him on, 548 00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:32,359 and he wouldn't really go any further than that, you know, 549 00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:36,240 And he always kind of hints at that he knows 550 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,440 things that he can't say, you know, which is probably true. 551 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,960 I have to give him that there's probably things that 552 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,279 he you know, can't say that he would get in 553 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,480 trouble for. But anyway, so that is, you know, to 554 00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:50,720 think that there could be something that's always been here 555 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,200 alongside of us that we can't detect, possibly or whatever 556 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,000 it is, you know, that's kind of scary in a 557 00:27:59,039 --> 00:27:59,440 way too. 558 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 3: And then we can access it, but they can access 559 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,880 us sometimes too. That's I think it goes both ways. 560 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,519 Speaker 4: I think that we can access whatever it is where 561 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:10,240 this is happening, but it goes two ways. 562 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: It's funny. 563 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: I was just speaking to someone earlier today that was saying, 564 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,960 you know, is it extraterrestrial? 565 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,799 Speaker 1: What do you think it is? 566 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 2: And I said, well, you know, maybe it's some of 567 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,559 a lot of different things, and extraterrestrial could be one 568 00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:28,640 of them. But interdimensional does answer a lot of the 569 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,160 puzzles that people claim they see. And I'm talking about 570 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,240 when things blink in and out, you know, when I 571 00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:36,440 remember I've. 572 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: Used this recently. 573 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: I think I said this when Francis Cheramudo, who is 574 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:47,039 one of the Ariel School incidents' children witnesses, said that 575 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:50,079 the being was running toward the pool and it was 576 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,880 blinking out and blinking in ahead of itself. He said, 577 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,720 if you can imagine that, it was hard for him 578 00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:58,480 to describe. But I mean when I hear things like that, 579 00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:03,039 you think, you know, interdimensional may answer something like that. 580 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: How would they? 581 00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: You know, that's there's so many things to try to 582 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,640 figure out. How how how does that work? How does 583 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,039 that work coming in and out of a dimension? And 584 00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:15,160 it does it have to do with time? Is it 585 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,640 a time element? Is it? 586 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: Is it something else? You know? 587 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: And you mentioned quantum, uh, you know quantum mechanics, and 588 00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:27,519 you know that is there's so many things about that 589 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:30,480 that are just baffling and unknowable. 590 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,119 Speaker 1: Basically, so you. 591 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:34,559 Speaker 4: Mentioned you mentioned the aerial saying, which is by far 592 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,480 one of the my gosh, man to give a newcomer. 593 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,279 Speaker 3: If a newcomer said, what where should I start? 594 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:46,319 Speaker 4: That one in rendal rndlsom that roswell but also rendalsom 595 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,559 more than the same thing. 596 00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 3: I think it was. 597 00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:52,039 Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it was Pennington, Penniston or or 598 00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:54,519 the other one, but uh, one of them mentioned the 599 00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:56,039 same type of thing that when they got. 600 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,839 Speaker 3: Closer to the. 601 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 4: The craft or whatever it was, that there was some 602 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:01,839 kind of we time. He said he felt like he 603 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,960 was walking through like a like almost like water like 604 00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:09,240 and and that to me, that does implicate a space 605 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:14,000 time component. And then if you watched a recent Disclosure 606 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,559 movie that came out at Christmas time, they talk about 607 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,319 that space bubble and I'm thinking about Renderssom, I'm thinking 608 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:25,200 about Ariel and I'm like, this makes this makes sense 609 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,160 if you're thinking about it dimensionally or space time, you 610 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,599 know that that it's a malleable thing that we're actually 611 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:35,400 looking it's distorted. And that also would explain why the 612 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,559 as so many people have this missing time element, this 613 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,039 component that that's just perplexing. Where you know they're driving 614 00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:43,839 down a road and then and and they they know 615 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,640 it's only two hours to their house but they arrived 616 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,720 at their house five hours later. With that that time, 617 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:50,559 I do think that there's something with space time that's 618 00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:51,640 that's involved there. 619 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: I did too. 620 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,559 Speaker 2: And you know, one of my favorite encounters that I 621 00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,960 ever talked to someone personally about Albert Wayne, he's spent 622 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:05,119 on you know, I recorded with him. He mentions that 623 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:09,119 the whole situation where he had this encounter, he felt 624 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,680 it like he felt like he was in the matrix 625 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,759 where everything was going, you know, very slow like that. 626 00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:20,000 And also people also comment on an absence of sound. 627 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: Which is really kind of spooky too. 628 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: You know, these things that there it's more than one 629 00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:28,880 person when you hear more than one person say, and 630 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,559 they have no idea who the other person is saying 631 00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:34,480 the same thing, you know, in other words, it's not 632 00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:38,160 out there basically, and they're basically saying that they have 633 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:39,720 a very similar thing happened. 634 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: It's really really puzzling. 635 00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 4: And you got the whole time traveling aspect of it too, 636 00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:48,880 the time that the future time travelers the Michael Masters 637 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,400 his book, Yes I identified flying saucers. I hands down 638 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,039 my favorite book. I've read a lot of them, and 639 00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:58,079 it was it was science y and you know, it's 640 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,359 very technical, but man, because he he has so many 641 00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,880 i think advanced degrees and he uses that to really 642 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,119 lay down this framework and explain exactly where he's coming from. 643 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,079 Speaker 3: It's a wild book. 644 00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,319 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I really like Michael. He's he's he's a 645 00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,000 really great guy. 646 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: And you know, I mentioned to him last time I 647 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,799 had him on the show, was like, what if these 648 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,519 are indeed from the future, But what if it's not 649 00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:25,720 us from the future. 650 00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: What if we're gone and it's another. 651 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 2: Species you know, evolves, you know, which is very and 652 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,759 when you think about ninety nine percent of all you 653 00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:37,839 know life on Earth has has become extinct. You know, 654 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,559 we can't say that we're going to be here forever, 655 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,720 but who knows, you know, if something else will evolve eventually, 656 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,279 depending on how long the planet's and you know, habitable, 657 00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:47,960 I guess. 658 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:48,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. 659 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 4: Look, it's like the Time Machine book where the morlocks 660 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:54,680 right in the Underground Society the Breakaway. 661 00:32:55,279 --> 00:33:00,519 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael's got a great, great thought. 662 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:04,440 He was wondering why more people of science don't, you know, 663 00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:08,680 think this topic is worth exploring in so many ways? 664 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,359 You know, I mean I was with him when he 665 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,279 was chewing someone out. It was pretty funny someone else 666 00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:14,200 on the science field. 667 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: Uh. 668 00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, so I think this is really great. 669 00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,200 But now let me try to get some information from you. 670 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:27,039 When someone says that they somehow manifest or when someone 671 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:30,640 claims that people are manifesting like a nuts and bolts, 672 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:31,440 how would that. 673 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: Craft? How would that work? 674 00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 3: I think where? 675 00:33:36,319 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: Well? 676 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:38,119 Speaker 4: And I'm glad you said that because it means it 677 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,759 made me realize I forgot to mention remote viewing. 678 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 3: You know this remote viewer thing too that. 679 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 4: People laugh at, but it's I mean, look at the study. 680 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:48,559 Look at what was the stargate? Was that the help 681 00:33:48,599 --> 00:33:52,079 off stargate? And you'll figure he's the one that's that's 682 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:57,039 researching the UFO story as well. I think it's some 683 00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:00,319 really strange stuff. It's really strange. 684 00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:02,599 Speaker 1: Mmm mm hmmm. 685 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,199 Speaker 2: And so as far as where's a connection though, as 686 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:15,239 far as manifesting like a person, who can I like say, 687 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,639 I was outside and all of a sudden, the UFO 688 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,840 goes over me and I wasn't expecting one, but it's there. 689 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: How how would I have manifested that? 690 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:25,199 Speaker 3: Well? I don't know. 691 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,639 Speaker 4: I mean, maybe we should talk to Stephen Greer, because 692 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,159 he's the I do think that it has something to 693 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,000 do with that. That's where That's where I'm going with it. 694 00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,280 Do I think the remote viewing, the telepathy, the e 695 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,239 SC it's the same thing. It's tapping into the same field, 696 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,599 and so so we're we're able to connect through that 697 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,400 through that telepathy and I and it's so are they 698 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,280 whoever they are the the inhabitants of the field. I 699 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,480 don't know what they are, interdimensional beings. They they can 700 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:57,119 tap to us with telepathy. They can use it as 701 00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,639 well as as you know better the weekend. U is 702 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,320 my thought that there's a there's a there's an e 703 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,679 SE telepathy type like that's what That's what Stephen Greer says, 704 00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:11,400 at least I've never done the CE five protocol or anything, 705 00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:13,079 you know where we're I've gone. 706 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 3: With a group of people. But what do you think 707 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,199 about that? Do you think there's there's a is that credible? 708 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,079 Speaker 1: Well? 709 00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:28,039 Speaker 2: Uh? I have my thoughts about career and uh, you know, 710 00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:29,880 I mean, I think he did a really good job 711 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,000 in the very beginning, but then I think that he's 712 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,800 kind of fallen by the wayside as far as you know, 713 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,880 trying to. I hate to say it, but to make 714 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,880 money out of what he's doing, I think too much 715 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,920 of his uh And then he's a bit of a narcissist, 716 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,599 you know. I mean he kind of puts that out there. 717 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:53,239 But but anyway, and I also have a story about him. 718 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,440 I'm not going to ever repeat because I don't want 719 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,559 to get a lot into a lawsuit, but someday maybe 720 00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:03,199 I will if I have more evidence. But anyway, I 721 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,039 think there could be something. You know, Chris Bledsoe, there's 722 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:08,239 something going on with him. 723 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,639 Speaker 1: I don't know how that works. 724 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 2: You know, I've had him on the show before, but 725 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,280 there's so many people have witnessed things happening around him. 726 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,079 Speaker 1: It's bizarre. Now. 727 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,599 Speaker 2: He was out at Contact in the Desert last year. 728 00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:21,559 I was there and talked to him a couple of times, 729 00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:26,119 but I know that people had gone out with him 730 00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:31,320 and supposedly he manifested something, but other people were saying no, 731 00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:33,719 that was on their tracker as a satellite or this 732 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,800 or that, you know, like everything that he supposedly manifested. 733 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: Then was you know, prosaic. 734 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 2: But anyway, I do think there is something going on 735 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:50,159 with that. But I think it's also kind of interesting, 736 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,159 and what are your thoughts on when two different people 737 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,239 see an object or they have an you know, a 738 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,679 encounter together and they both see something entirely different. Have 739 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,119 you ever looked into that? 740 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,039 Speaker 4: That's That's where I think the signal comes from. That's 741 00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:09,320 why I tied in that the purple and black golden 742 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,280 white dress thing. That was the best analogy that I 743 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,800 could think of to come up with it, because you're 744 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,159 looking at the same thing, but you're interpreting differently, and 745 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,000 so it could be different reasons that we're each interpreting 746 00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:23,480 it differently. 747 00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:26,599 Speaker 3: But like I thought of it kind of like as. 748 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 4: Being tuned into the same radio signal or the same 749 00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:31,760 channel or the television set, you know, the old television 750 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,519 sets or a radio and that that's where my thought is. 751 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,679 That is that for whatever reason, we're the same signal 752 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,199 as reaching both of our brains, but your brain is 753 00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:43,119 seeing it as black and purple dress and my brain 754 00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:44,519 is seeing it as a golden white dress. 755 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,599 Speaker 3: That's all I got. 756 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,199 Speaker 4: It seems to happen and over and over again, it 757 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,840 seems to happen. That's that's the analogy that I could 758 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,480 use to kind of pull it together. 759 00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:59,599 Speaker 3: Though my mind. 760 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 2: I was trying to find that purple in that purple 761 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,920 dress thing cycle pull it up online, but I can't 762 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,760 quite find it right now. But yeah, I do remember 763 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,920 when that was going around and wow, that was really something. 764 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,559 I think I saw purple, but I'm not sure. I 765 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:16,639 don't know what type of personality that means I have. 766 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 3: Well then it. 767 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,159 Speaker 4: Changes then then, like one minute you can be looking 768 00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:21,760 at it and see purple and black and the next 769 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,679 minute you're seeing what the other person was seeing. 770 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 3: So it switches. 771 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,519 Speaker 4: But my guess is something along the lines of that 772 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,599 is happening. I use that analogy because just about everybody 773 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:33,880 and their mom knows that internet meme or whatever you 774 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,239 want to call it. But to me, it's just taking 775 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,400 these stories and these anecdotes and the literature and trying 776 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,280 to come up with the best way to say, yeah, 777 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,519 it seems to be happening. 778 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,039 Speaker 3: Maybe it's kind of like that. 779 00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:50,039 Speaker 4: I don't know why it's happening, but to me, to 780 00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:52,960 explain it, like the purple and black dress thing was 781 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,079 a way to get people to understand it. We're looking 782 00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,320 at the same exact thing, seeing different things. 783 00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 3: Why it's crazy now. 784 00:39:01,679 --> 00:39:05,199 Speaker 2: Also, it makes me kind of wonder, like if it 785 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,159 comes down to the point of disclosure, like everyone likes 786 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:11,039 to talk about disclosure, whether it's happening, going to happen, 787 00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:14,119 or not happen, and all that, But if it's also 788 00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:19,559 like something that is so bizarre, like it's involved in 789 00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:24,719 this type of situation, how could there be disclosure because 790 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,360 they wouldn't No one would really know exactly what it is, right, And. 791 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 4: I think that that's why we're in a situation that 792 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,199 we're in. I don't think that they're denying that there's 793 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,760 some kind of phenomenon happening. At this point, the government's 794 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,000 pretty much admitted that. Everybody's come out and say it. 795 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:40,840 I mean, our president's are saying it. The president, when 796 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,199 did that ever happen? Even they were seeing things, but 797 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:48,039 they never came out and said aliens are real. Obama 798 00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:50,039 saying that, and then and then Trump coming out and 799 00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:52,280 there's like a wrestling match between the two of them. 800 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,320 But yeah, I think that they've all and I think 801 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,480 that Trump's right into it. By the way, He's got 802 00:39:57,559 --> 00:40:02,119 some buddies. Rubio knows what's going on, his son knows 803 00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:03,800 what's going on. I think Sump knows what's going. 804 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just how are they supposed to? 805 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,639 Speaker 4: That's that's kind of why I'm doing this because it's 806 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:17,119 some really complicated, weird, esoteric, bizarre things in this field. 807 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,000 It doesn't make them untrue. And I've been looking at 808 00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:23,360 this for over thirty years, and the literature points to 809 00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:29,199 there being something strange that's happening. We do the best 810 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,880 we can to describe it. But I think that that's 811 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,119 probably why they can't say anything, because how in the 812 00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:34,400 world do you disclose. 813 00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:37,119 Speaker 1: This right right now? 814 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,159 Speaker 2: Do you get any pushback at all from what you 815 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,400 do professionally and looking into this, I don't know. 816 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 3: We'll see after this podcast. 817 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,079 Speaker 1: People know that you have an interest in UFOs professionally. 818 00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:54,480 I mean, have you ever talked about it? 819 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,519 Speaker 3: I wear it on my sleeve. I mean I everywhere 820 00:40:57,599 --> 00:40:59,159 I go, I'm all about UFOs. 821 00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 4: That's all I falcam now Now, Okay, I really appreciate 822 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,800 you taking the time to talk to me about it, 823 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,119 because my wife certainly won't you know what I'm saying. 824 00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, I have to talk to anybody that I 825 00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:09,239 can about it. 826 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,119 Speaker 2: Okay, So I got to just tell the listener who's 827 00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:15,639 listening to the audio podcast go ahead and open up 828 00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:16,199 your shirt again. 829 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,199 Speaker 1: It's a Roswell shirt. Is that what you're wearing? Yeah, 830 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,400 Roswell nineteen forty seven. Yeah, pretty funny. Yeah. 831 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,079 Speaker 3: Yeah. 832 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,559 Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, that's I think it's definitely you know 833 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:31,440 you mentioned earlier, you talked about, you know, the twenty 834 00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:36,280 seventeen New York Times article. I think since that time, 835 00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,679 it's much more relaxing to be able to talk about 836 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,199 this subject because it's not so much of a taboo 837 00:41:45,079 --> 00:41:49,039 topic to talk about. You know, people are more accepting 838 00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:49,280 of it. 839 00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:52,159 Speaker 3: For sure, I wouldn't have done this. I mean I'm 840 00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:52,599 being honest. 841 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have done this ten years ago, you know, right, 842 00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:58,159 But there's a little bit more of a platform now 843 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,639 to speak on it, and you've got some credible people 844 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,800 making comments, you know, like Secretary of State. I mean, 845 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,480 you know what I'm saying, there's there's some credible people 846 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,800 that are involved in this thing now that that yeah, 847 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,320 it makes it a little bit easier to talk about. 848 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,760 Speaker 3: However, that the. 849 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 4: More, like I said, the stranger, the high strangeness parts 850 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,800 of this this thing, that's the spot that, uh, it's 851 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,519 really still hard to talk about. And because it's it's 852 00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:28,119 hard to wrap your mind around it. The book skin 853 00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:29,280 Walkers at the Kindagon. 854 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,159 Speaker 3: Have you read that, Martin? 855 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: No, No, I read the Skinwalker book, the first one, 856 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,679 but not prior. I know which one you're talking about. Yes, 857 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,440 but I did not read that one. No, man, it's 858 00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:40,920 really good. 859 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,119 Speaker 4: Huh So So I well, first of all, I wanted 860 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:45,440 to ask you what it was like being at one 861 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,039 of those congressional hearings, because my mind blown. 862 00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 3: That must have been something just surreal for you. 863 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: But it was. 864 00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, the fact that we're. 865 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 4: I'm losing my train of thought here, congressional hearings, the 866 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,119 congressional hearings. Yeah, the fact that they're they're coming out 867 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,960 now and and they're, uh, you're gonna have to remind 868 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,400 me what we thought. 869 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Mark, I just lost track of what I 870 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,199 was saying. 871 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,519 Speaker 1: That's okay, we were talking. Here's a picture, right, Yeah 872 00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:16,400 I did. 873 00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. 874 00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: But but anyway, No, you asked me if I read 875 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,719 the book of Mark. 876 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,039 Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh my. 877 00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:29,639 Speaker 4: Gosh, because because it's so I understand now why there 878 00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:33,599 were some people upset about that the recent documentary that 879 00:43:33,679 --> 00:43:36,840 came out where they really didn't talk about some of 880 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:37,800 the strength the high. 881 00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:41,119 Speaker 3: Strangeness, and that means a disclosure that one. 882 00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, they it was great and I loved it, 883 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,239 and I think that it did the job that it 884 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,119 should do. But they did not touch on this high 885 00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:49,880 strange and stuff that we're talking about here, some of 886 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,199 these other things that I think tie into this and 887 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,599 that they were happening on on that ranch. You know, 888 00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:58,199 that the hitch hiker effect. And you've got people like 889 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,800 the prestigious people that were on that case, like Lukatski. 890 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,159 I mean, what was he the director of the CIA, 891 00:44:05,679 --> 00:44:10,119 talking about going to the Skinwalker ranch and bringing Phenomena 892 00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:14,519 back with him. I mean, that's some really really freaky stuff, 893 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,239 and not only for not only him, but his family 894 00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:21,039 was experiencing this, and so you've got you've got this 895 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:26,480 aspect of it that's I think, really really freaky. And 896 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,360 that's that's the part that's I think maybe they're stuck 897 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,760 on that for this disclosure thing. 898 00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 899 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,079 Speaker 2: I mean, if I had, like the slightest I had 900 00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:37,880 thought about visiting Skinwalker Ranch and had you know, an 901 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,360 invite from Brandon at one point, and I talked to 902 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,880 someone else in the UFO world and they said, are 903 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,719 you crazy? You know, do you what about the hitchhiker effect. 904 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,119 Don't you ever think about that? 905 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:51,559 Speaker 3: You know? 906 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 2: And then you know, I mean I didn't. It's always 907 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,280 one of those things I think, Oh, that had never 908 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,559 happened to me, But you never know. I mean, that 909 00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:01,920 wouldn't be fun, you know. From what I gather, that 910 00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,599 is such a bad good place. Yeah, it's such an 911 00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,840 odd place anyway. I mean, I do think that things 912 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,719 are happening. Maybe maybe they pump it up a little 913 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,800 bit for the show, you know, but but I think 914 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,800 that things weird things have happened there for a long time. 915 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,159 And why there, you know, that's the biggest question. Is 916 00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:27,000 there something that attracts whatever it is you know, to 917 00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:30,360 that place? Is there a portal or or what you know? 918 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,480 I mean, that's we read that book, the first book, 919 00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,639 and that it sounds like that was a situation, at 920 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,800 least a possible situation when they saw that being crawl 921 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,519 out of there. All these scientists are sitting there there's 922 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,639 they didn't film it, which is ridiculous, but they see 923 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,880 something coming out of like a portal and then standing 924 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,480 up and then walking away. I mean, come on, that's bizarre. 925 00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:57,639 Speaker 4: And to me, that's again I would, I would think 926 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,000 I would think about this, this framework that I'm presents, 927 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,880 and to me, that's, yeah, a portal to reaching this 928 00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:08,960 dimension or whatever it is, this field where where things 929 00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:10,000 can come come through. 930 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 3: I believe that that's what's going on there. I mean, 931 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,599 how how else do you describe cryptids and UFOs and 932 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,679 paranormal events and all these things that. 933 00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:23,760 Speaker 4: You're talking about that's in that book and tie it 934 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,159 together and one To me, the inner dimensional portal explanation 935 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,960 really makes sense. Of course, I'm not going to sit 936 00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:32,400 here and say that's the only thing that it can be. 937 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,239 Who knows what's really going on, but it seems it 938 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,000 seems a way to explain it and kind of wrap 939 00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:37,679 your head around it. 940 00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 2: Right, So where are you going to go from here 941 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,519 with with what you're doing? Do you have plans to 942 00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:48,280 move forward? Maybe write some on it or something. 943 00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 3: I don't know. What do you think? Do you think 944 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:50,599 I should? 945 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 2: Well? I think you're onto something, you know, but it's 946 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,480 still very hard for me to really get my head 947 00:46:58,519 --> 00:46:59,480 around the whole thing. 948 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,519 Speaker 1: But I think you're wrong to something, and. 949 00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:05,639 Speaker 2: I think you could, you know, move into finding out 950 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,519 more and you know, if you keep at it, I'd 951 00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:08,880 love to. 952 00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 4: I mean, it's been a lifelong interest and you know, 953 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,280 it's I've wanted to contribute to the field. My my 954 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,599 heroes are people in this field, and if I tried 955 00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:19,519 to go down a list, I'd forget too many people. 956 00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:21,679 But you know, like I don't, I don't. I'm not 957 00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:26,840 a sports guy. I don't care about Hollywood. My heroes 958 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,159 are James Fox and Jacques Vallet and you know you 959 00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:34,599 and Jimmy Church and the whole list that have been 960 00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:37,760 putting the work and even but prior to the important 961 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,400 thing is doing this prior to twenty seventeen, because a 962 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,280 lot of us wouldn't have. 963 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very good. Yeah, and when I started, it 964 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,239 was a lot. 965 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,559 Speaker 2: When I started in twenty eleven, I was careful, you know, 966 00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:53,519 out there as a antique and fine art or praiser 967 00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:56,679 like talking about it. I wouldn't talk about it, you know, 968 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,480 I'd be afraid to. You know, I figure it would 969 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,760 affect me some way. And it did actually one time, 970 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,199 you know, and I found out afterwards. But no need 971 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,800 to go into that. But anyway, it's been a real pleasure. 972 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,239 I'm so glad that you contacted me and I one 973 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,760 of the things I like to do is I like 974 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,639 to have interesting guests that aren't on other shows that 975 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,280 I get to talk to them first or whatever, and 976 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,880 this idea. And so when you contacted me, I said, 977 00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:27,639 this sounds like it would be an interest, you would 978 00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:29,000 be an interesting guest, and you were. 979 00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. 980 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much. 981 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 4: And I really thank you for letting me your ear 982 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,039 because seriously, as you know, a lot of people won't 983 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:37,719 listen to me talk about this kind of stuff. 984 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,280 Speaker 3: So no, I really do appreciate Martin meant the world 985 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,880 of me that you accepted that. Thank you. 986 00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 2: Well, great, all right, everyone, so thanks so much, and 987 00:48:45,559 --> 00:48:48,239 we'll be back next week at the regular time and 988 00:48:48,639 --> 00:48:51,000 it'll be a live show I think with Mark de Antonio, 989 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,079 but I'm not sure. 990 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: All right, Take care, take care,