WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.600 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 2 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:04.360 gotten lucky? 3 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.400 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in 4 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:10.679 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 5 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:11.119 to say? 6 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.880 Yes? You do? 7 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.519 In the car before my kids pta meeting? 8 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:15.080 Really? 9 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:15.560 Yes? 10 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.160 Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 11 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:19.399 I never win? 12 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:20.920 And tell well, there you have it. 13 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.760 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot 14 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.440 com play for free right now? 15 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.559 Are you feeling lucky? 16 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:28.399 Nobri just necessary foid. We're gonna be my long eighteen 17 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.160 plus terms. Conditions of pluck seems after details. 18 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:32.600 Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight 19 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:34.840 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 20 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.479 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at 21 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:39.240 the person sitting next to me, and you know what 22 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:42.079 they were doing. They were also playing Chumpa Casino. Coincidence, 23 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.560 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba 24 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:47.000 Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games. You can 25 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:50.880 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 26 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.240 So sign up now at chumbuck Casino dot com to 27 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.359 claim you're free, welcome bonus. That's chumbuck Casino dot com 28 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:57.799 and live the Chumba Lane. 29 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.000 No we necessary dvod where every I lost e terms 30 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.000 conditions eighteen plus. 31 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:05.400 Lucky Land Casino, asking people what's the weirdest place you've 32 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:06.120 gotten lucky? 33 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:09.200 Lucky in line at the deli, I guess ah, in 34 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:12.439 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 35 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:12.920 to say? 36 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:13.319 Yes? 37 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:13.560 You do? 38 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:16.319 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 39 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:16.799 Really? 40 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:17.319 Yes? 41 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:19.920 Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 42 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:21.200 I never win? 43 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:22.719 And tell well, there you have it. 44 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.799 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com. 45 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:28.359 Play for free right now? Are you feeling lucky? 46 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:28.760 Nobs? 47 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:29.200 Just necessary? 48 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:29.400 Void? 49 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.280 Were my long eighteen plus terms and conditions of Plusy 50 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:32.000 wants every details. 51 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.840 Judy was boring Hello. Then Judy discovered Chumpacasino dot com. 52 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.359 It's my little escape. 53 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:40.200 Now Judy's the life of the party. 54 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:42.400 Oh baby mama is bringing home the bacon. 55 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.560 WHOA, take it easy, Judy, jump the chump a life. 56 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:47.359 That's for everybody. 57 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:50.079 So go to chumpacasino dot com and play over one 58 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.200 hundred casino style games. Join today and play for free 59 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.879 for your chance to redeem some serious prices. Jump Chumpacasino 60 00:01:57.959 --> 00:01:59.560 dot com. Nobrid's Necessary Weight. 61 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:02.319 We're going at its term condition of what everty deils. 62 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.479 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 63 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:18.599 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 64 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:25.960 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK every 65 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:29.639 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 66 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:33.960 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 67 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.840 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 68 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:51.719 Good Evening. One day, Andrea Yates was a loving mother. 69 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:54.960 The next the nation was shocked by the death of 70 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.560 her five innocent children. The nine one one called it 71 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:04.759 shocked country. I just killed my children? Why were they killed? 72 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.319 On June twenty, two thousand and one, in a middle 73 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:12.159 class Houston suburb, Andrea Yates and her husband, Russell, a 74 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:16.240 Nassa engineer, prepared for the routine week day ahead. But 75 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.919 before the morning was over, tragedy would strike the quiet 76 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.039 family and turn the day into a nightmare. Shortly before 77 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.800 ten am, Andrea calmly summoned the police with a grim confession. 78 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:31.240 One by one, Andrea Yate's children, aged ages six months 79 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.120 to seven years, had been drowned in their bathtub. No 80 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.360 one who knew Andrea could picture the devoted mother capable 81 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:41.800 of such an unbelievable crime, or imagine the terror in 82 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.680 the eyes of her trusting children as their father struggled 83 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:49.719 between overwhelming grief and loyalty to his imprisoned wife, an 84 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:56.479 outraged nation struggled with an unfathomable question. Breaking Point provides 85 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:59.879 a harrowing portrait of the suffocating darkness at the heart 86 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.560 of one all American family and exposes the private demons 87 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.639 that pushed a mother over the edge. The book that 88 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.879 we're featuring this evening is Breaking Point with my special 89 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.919 guest journalist and author, Susie Spencer. Welcome back to the program, 90 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.839 and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Susie Spencer, Well, 91 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.319 thank you for having me. Well, thank you very much. 92 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:27.240 This is an incredible tale. Now gone on to true 93 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.759 crime history. And tell us a little bit about this 94 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.079 newest edition and tell us when it was originally released. 95 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:36.920 Tell us a little bit about those details, please, Well, the. 96 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:39.839 Book first came out just about a month or two 97 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:44.079 before Andrea's first trial, So I did not get to 98 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.279 include my trial coverage. And I was there all but 99 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:50.600 one day of the first trial. So for the past 100 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:52.959 thirteen and a half years, I've been trying to get 101 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.680 that coverage in, and diversion books came to me and 102 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.399 they let me put that in. And then also I 103 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:03.439 went to doctor Lucy per Year, who was the expert 104 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:08.279 psychiatric witness for the defense, and said, give me something new, 105 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:13.439 and to my great shock, Lucy said, come to my house. 106 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.519 The files are yours. So she let me into her 107 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.600 garage apartment and I sat there for a few hours 108 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.639 going through all of her files. And I am the 109 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.600 first reporter, in fact, maybe the first person she's ever 110 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.360 shown the files too. And then at the end, because 111 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.920 the story the crime working on the case just really 112 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.920 got to doctor Puryeer because she had a child who 113 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:43.360 was the same age as Andrea's daughter Mary, and so 114 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:45.480 she's like, I don't know what to do with these 115 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.519 files anymore. Take what you want and keep them. So 116 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.399 right now I have in my hallway a huge box 117 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.720 of the defense files and so I have woven that 118 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:59.079 into the book as well as my trial coverage. 119 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.639 And congratulations on that as well, because for all those 120 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.560 people that think they know the story, even if you 121 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:10.199 were lucky enough to have your book from back in 122 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:10.959 two thousand and. 123 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.920 Two, was it, Yes, it came out the end of 124 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:15.959 two thousand and one, beginning two thousand and two. 125 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.439 If those people and anybody that thinks they really know 126 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:23.800 this story, with the access to the information that you 127 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:27.120 have added to the original story, this is just an 128 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.079 incredible tale that I think, as we spoke just before 129 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.519 we went on air, this is some incredible stuff where 130 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:36.240 we'll talk about this a little bit later where fiction 131 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.759 and television and criminal profilers and the FBI and everybody 132 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:45.560 gets involved in this, and this really does captivate and resonate, 133 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:50.480 I mean, is an understatement with the American society and 134 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:54.319 still is an issue that people are grappling with and 135 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.120 still scratching their head over. So this is a landmark 136 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.639 case and historic case, and let's get to that right now. 137 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.560 So tell us a little bit about Andrea Pia Kennedy. 138 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:10.279 And unlike the book I mentioned that, you talk about 139 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.560 the crime unfolding and the case unfolding and it's very 140 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.240 very interesting. But let's first talk a little bit about 141 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.920 Andrea Pia Kennedy and just a little bit about her 142 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.639 background before we get into this incredible tale. 143 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:29.920 Well, her dad was Irish Catholic, her mom was German. 144 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.680 They met during the war World War Two because her dad, 145 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.480 I believe, was a pilot and he was very proud 146 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:43.600 of his Irish Catholic Kennedy name. And she was brought 147 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.439 up devout Catholic until her father lost his job and 148 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.519 then he kind of lost his faith for a while 149 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.480 and they quit going to church. But in some ways 150 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.079 they were still trying to emulate the Kennedys in that 151 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:00.600 they loved to sail, they loved to be out doors, 152 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.879 they wanted to be the best at everything. So Andrea 153 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:09.319 was a championship swimmer and her high school she was 154 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:12.920 National Honor Society. And then she went to college and 155 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.040 became a registered nurse and worked at M. D Anderson 156 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:17.759 with cancer patients. 157 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:25.000 Now you talk about Andrea Kennedy, and she was, as 158 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.519 you described in the book, she was quite a striking 159 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.160 looking woman, a good looking woman, and you said she 160 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:34.159 excelled in sports. You do talk about how no one 161 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.320 really could comment her being so gregarious, but it wasn't 162 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.320 like she was totally withdrawn, so sort of sort of 163 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.840 a neutral sort of assessment of her. But it was 164 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:48.279 interesting how the two met. Russell and her met, so 165 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.799 tell us how they met well. 166 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:55.320 Andrea never dated, like you say, she was kind of reserved, shy. 167 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:57.720 She did have a close group of very you know 168 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.200 or small group of very close friends, but she never dated. 169 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.759 She was a wallflower and I think took a little 170 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.720 bit of pride in that. And then she did date 171 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.480 after she got out of excuse me, out of college. 172 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:14.159 She did date one guy, but that went sour, and 173 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.000 so she was still a loner. And one day she 174 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.799 was in the swimming pool at her apartment complex and 175 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.240 she was there just floating in the water with her 176 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:27.519 arms outstretched. And Andrea was tall and shapely, you know, 177 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:32.279 had a great build from Oliver swimming. And Rusty Yates 178 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:36.039 was who lived in the apartment complex, spotted her and 179 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.519 just thought she was gorgeous and couldn't take her his 180 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.960 eyes off of her. But they're both a little bit 181 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.159 on the shy side. So she left, but she did 182 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.639 notice him, and a few weeks later she one night 183 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.919 was feeling kind of lonely, had gone out to dinner 184 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:56.399 by herself, and went and knocked on Rusty's door and said, Hey, 185 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:58.919 my car got hit. Do you buy any chance know 186 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.679 who hit it? And this was all a setup. Yes, 187 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.480 her car had really gotten hit, but you know, she 188 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:06.960 just went to Rusty to try to open the conversation. 189 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.399 And when Rusty answered the door, he was on the 190 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.639 phone to someone else and his mouth just dropped, going, God, 191 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.159 got guy, you know this gorgeous woman. So then he 192 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.519 you know, talked to her a little bit and then 193 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.960 went back to his friend on the phone and said, 194 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:27.600 I just met the most gorgeous woman. And they started dating. 195 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:30.480 The first dates were kind of awkward, you know, dinner 196 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:32.159 in a movie, but you know, with him, neither one 197 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:36.039 very much talking. But it was something that worked. And 198 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:40.039 he was a devout Christian, although he kind of gets 199 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.000 kind of iffy about when he became a Christian. She 200 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:48.039 became one also through him. But yet they lived together 201 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.679 and had sex before they got married, which shocked everyone. 202 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:57.440 Now we just we will be talking about this more. 203 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.960 But when you talked about him being to devout Christian 204 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.840 and for all those people, because I was raised Roman Catholic, 205 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:06.559 but there is different degrees of I guess the vouteness. 206 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:09.519 So what was a little bit of that, what was 207 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:14.000 the feature of her religious background in terms of promiscuity 208 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.559 or the importance of, say, sexual chastity. Was there any 209 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:21.679 indication that there was any kind of prudishness associated with 210 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:25.279 the religiosity that she was involved with, if. 211 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:28.360 I remember correctly. Even her mother called her a prude. 212 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:34.639 She didn't like to be touched. She once that she 213 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.039 and Rusty got together, she would dress and undress in 214 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:43.000 a closet. Rusty says that was because she was so shy. 215 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.639 Doctor Purryer told me that was because Andrea felt like 216 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.440 every time she undressed in front of Rusty he wanted 217 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.879 to have sex, and that was the way to stop him. 218 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:59.840 But yes, she was basically a prude, and she always 219 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:04.159 wanted to be and was the good girl, study hard, 220 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.720 work hard, help other people, be a good nurse, do 221 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.600 kind deeds for the elderly and firm. She was just 222 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.960 the cliche good girl. 223 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:22.720 Now let's talk about religion while we're still on it, 224 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:27.200 and that she finds out about an evangelist named Michael. 225 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:31.679 We're a neki. Yes, if I mispronounced that, you can 226 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.080 correct me if you want, But when is it exactly? 227 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.279 And if it's if I'm jumping ahead let me know 228 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.840 as well, when does it that she discovers this evangelist 229 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.799 Michael We're an Eki and what is it that he 230 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:52.159 is saying in terms of his his religious abews. 231 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.159 Well, we need to jump back to Rusty for a 232 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.320 little bit to get into that, because she met Warren 233 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.720 Eki through Rusty and Rusty was born in New York 234 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:06.399 State and then when he was a little kid, they 235 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:12.000 moved to Tennessee and one of his grandfathers, I can't 236 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.320 remember if it was on his mother or father's side. 237 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:18.440 I think on his father's side was a preacher. And 238 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.919 when they moved to Tennessee, they eventually joined a Methodist 239 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:27.159 church and were very very active in it, and everyone 240 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:32.639 considered Rusty again a devout, devoted Christian. He was in 241 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:39.559 the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. He was also a good boy, smart, funny, 242 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.919 but shy. He would get really nervous when he had 243 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.320 to talk to people. Took great pride in his brain. 244 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.720 But he was also a star athlete on the football team. 245 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.120 And then his father died when he was in high school. 246 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.879 He seemed to crack down on himself more. Rusty did 247 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:02.519 studying harder so he could get a scholarship, and when 248 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.919 he went off to college, everyone thought Rusty was this 249 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:13.320 great Christian. Inside Rusty was doubting Christianity and he was 250 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.200 going to Auburn University and one day he was walking 251 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:23.519 across campus and he heard this preacher who was attracted 252 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:27.080 him because he wouldn't take flack off of people. He 253 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.840 was sort of a smart alec and Rusty liked what 254 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:36.320 he was saying and started following him and called up 255 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.440 his mother one night and said, I finally get it. 256 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:44.480 I finally believe. And so for years he stayed in 257 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:48.720 touch with Michael Warnecki, who was a traveling evangelist who 258 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.559 went to college for college to college, preferably in the 259 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.919 Sun beltan excuse me, the Bible Belt, even though he 260 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.879 did go all over the world, and basically what he 261 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.360 did was get there with huge placards and tell everybody 262 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.559 you're going to Hell. Like when he was at the 263 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.720 University of Oklahoma, he said, I hate oe you because 264 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.039 that's where the worst Christians are, and Christians are horrible. 265 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.039 He didn't even want to be called a Christian. But 266 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.159 the basically everybody in the world but Michael Warrenecki and 267 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:25.320 his family were going to Hell, and some reason or 268 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.159 other this attracted Rusty. Rusty says that Warren Ecki got 269 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.279 more outrageous over the years and that he sort of 270 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.000 withdrew some. But Rusty introduced Andrea to the warren Necks. 271 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.879 They stayed in touch, they exchanged letters. Rusty would send 272 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:48.559 them money, Andrea would bake goods for them and send 273 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.559 them cookies and cakes, and that just developed a relationship. 274 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:57.080 Whereas Rusty really wanted to be like the Warren eckis 275 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.600 that you travel on a bus. They they had a 276 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:05.320 converted bus that they lived in, and you go traveling 277 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:10.799 the world to bring people to Christ and you taught 278 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.960 your kids. You didn't really have any place to call home. 279 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:20.120 You didn't have any material possessions. Your life was just 280 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.039 getting on the bus going to colleges, pull out the 281 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.799 banners saying you're going to Hell, and scream at everybody 282 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.799 telling him that they're going to hell and that they're 283 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:30.000 evil and horrible. 284 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:37.600 Now, this is in congress to the job that he 285 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.399 has and the intellect that he has for those people 286 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.480 that think that there is a separation between this rational 287 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.159 thought and some irrational thought. When we get into what 288 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.799 exactly this Michael Waerniki preaches and some of the things 289 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.559 that his wife and he advised Andrea. So let's talk 290 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.840 about his NASAU job and his relationships there and that 291 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.880 sort of dichotomy with his intellect and this fervent religiosity. 292 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.079 Well, you're exactly right, because he was on scholarship. He 293 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:18.680 was basically he considered himself a math genius. When he 294 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.480 was in college, he did a summer internship or actually 295 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:24.200 I don't know if it is a summer a year long, 296 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:28.759 but an internship at NASA and clear Lake or Houston 297 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.160 area where he worked on I think the super shuttle. 298 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.799 And then when he got out of college he went 299 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.759 to work for NASA, and when the murders happened, he 300 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.799 was an eighty thousand dollars a year at NASA engineer. 301 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.680 And when you're talking to Rusty, which I spent many 302 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.400 hours talking to him, he loves to show off his 303 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:55.440 intellect and he is very bright, and he talks so 304 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.200 over my head when it comes to computers and space stuff, 305 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:06.599 and I'm you know, he's very, very bright, and it 306 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:12.839 is kind of confusing. But NASA engineers, or that I 307 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.079 learned from the people who live in that area are very, 308 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:21.400 very focused. And that's what I learned about Rusty. He 309 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:26.599 has tunnel vision, and when he sees something that he wants, 310 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.920 he's going to zero in on that and nothing else matters. 311 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:35.160 He doesn't really hear anything else. So this is just 312 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.200 my supposition I'm coming to as I'm talking to you, 313 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:42.720 that he is just so focused that it wouldn't really 314 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.680 matter what the warren NECKI or what anyone said about 315 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:52.559 the warren neckis. And Rusty didn't have a lot of friends. 316 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:55.240 And one of the things I noticed when I was 317 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.839 around Rusty is when you're with him, he is so 318 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:06.559 prove persuasive that he'll say things, didn't you just go, yeah, yeah, 319 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.519 that makes sense, and then you walk away and you 320 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.880 can think about it by yourself and go, that's bonkers. 321 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.759 And Andrea never had the chance to walk away. And 322 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:25.000 since Rusty didn't have anyone to tell him, you know 323 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.200 that this guy is bonkers because he wasn't going to 324 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.440 reveal this to anyone else. So that when I say 325 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:34.000 bonkers that Michael Warnecky is bonkers, you know, Rusty's not 326 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:37.079 going to hear that. And I met one other person 327 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:42.519 who was a Warnecky follower and a very bright, kind guy, 328 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.640 and it took him twelve years to wake up to 329 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:51.640 Warnicky was doing. So it's not something that has to 330 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:52.640 do with intellect. 331 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:59.599 Now, let's talk about the most important aspect of this 332 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.759 story and issues in this story. Again their religion and 333 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.599 their religiosity or their faith will say, because they weren't 334 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.759 always connected with a specific religion per se. Let's talk 335 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.079 about what their idea was, what Andrea's idea was, and 336 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:24.240 what Russell's idea was in terms of marriage and the 337 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.200 care of children and a woman staying home, those issues, 338 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.720 those critical issues. What were Andrea's views and what were 339 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.680 Russell's views regarding that well, and. 340 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.559 Again this was greatly influenced by Michael Warnecki, and that 341 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:44.759 is that the wife is a Jezebel. She is a seductress. 342 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:49.880 She's evil, she's horrible, But yet she is supposed to 343 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.920 stay home, do everything, the husband says, take care of 344 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.720 the children, not work outside of the home. Just do everything, 345 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.839 the husband says. Did that answer your question? 346 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:10.440 Sure? So she did want to have children, and they 347 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.440 got to that shortly after their marriage, in short order, 348 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.720 and then within a year that she was pregnant again. 349 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.319 So tell us about the marriage and the relationship and 350 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.119 the child rearing in that first couple of years. 351 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.240 Yes, it was. Andrea worked as a nurse until she 352 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.160 had her first child. Then it was known that she 353 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.200 would immediately quit work and as far as having children, 354 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.599 they did not use birth control. Their deal was that 355 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.720 they were going to have as many children as God allowed, 356 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:50.160 and it didn't matter if Andrea got six and the 357 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.920 doctor said, don't have any more children, because surely you'll 358 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:59.400 have another. About a postpartum depression and psychosis, Rusty explained 359 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.559 it to me one night just before the trial, that 360 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.839 we thought of postpartum depression and psychosis is like somebody 361 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.880 offered us a Mercedes Binz which would be the child. 362 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.319 And to get this free Mercedes Bins, because we're going 363 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:16.640 to give it to you for free, you're going to 364 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.920 have the flu for a couple of weeks. And he said, 365 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.640 so of course you'd take that chance that, Okay, I 366 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.359 can get this Mercedes Bins, but I'm going to have 367 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.279 the flu for two weeks, but I'll get over it. 368 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:34.359 So he considered it that God's given him this free 369 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.559 trial child, but Andrea is going to get sick, perhaps 370 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.599 with postpartum depression and psychosis. But it's no problem. We 371 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.119 will just give her the meds that got her well 372 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.000 before and everything will be okay. He did not pay 373 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.559 attention because again Rusty has tunnel vision. He goes after 374 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.279 what he wants and doesn't let anything else. And I'm 375 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.200 not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying he 376 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.799 has tunnel vision. And so and the doctor who treated 377 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.799 her for postpartiment depression and psychosis said, do not have 378 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.200 any more kids, because she will surely have this again, 379 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:13.279 and each time she has it will it will get worse. 380 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:15.880 They ignored that. They chose to ignore that. 381 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:23.400 Now there's other things involved here, because it's complicated because 382 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:27.880 Rusty at some point says that and does enough research. 383 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.640 Because I find this odd that he has again this 384 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:37.359 evangelical interest in belief, and yet then again he's again 385 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:39.720 the sort of a dichotomy where he's going online and 386 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:46.759 finding and researching Helldall and the newer antipsychotic medication and dosage, 387 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:51.240 actually sparring with the psychiatrist at one point saying, you know, 388 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:54.200 you should give her this much and you can't increase 389 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:59.000 in terms of milligram that dosage because of this tell 390 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:01.960 us a little bit about how much again, try to 391 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:05.519 get me to understand how much faith he has in 392 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:09.680 the medication to be able to work perfectly despite not 393 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.839 having it work perfectly the very time first time she 394 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:14.000 experienced the drug. 395 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:16.880 Well, no, again, we sort of need to back up 396 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:21.640 because Rusty, according to him, he sort of distanced himself 397 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:26.480 from the Warren Echis because he bought their bus, their 398 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.160 six hundred and fifty square foot bus I believe it was, 399 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.640 and then he got upset with the bus, and I 400 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.400 think he kind of distanced himself from the Warren Echis 401 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.359