WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:03.680 You're listening to an air Wave media podcast. 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.040 This is side two of our look at the Kentucky 3 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:10.400 Goblins of nineteen fifty five. If you have not listened 4 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:12.960 to side one, please fast forward this tape to the 5 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.679 end and flip it over to start with side one. 6 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.600 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 7 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:29.120 A giant, hairy creature. Part eighte part masts in Luckness, 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.000 a twenty four mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands 9 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:35.079 of Scotland, in the creature known as the Luckness Monster. 10 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:58.320 Monstertal. 11 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.600 Welcome to Monster Talk, this science show about monsters. I'm 12 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.359 Blake Smith my co host doctor Karen Stoleno. We'll be 13 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.400 back soon. Last week we introduced the story of the 14 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.200 Kentucky Goblin Attack of nineteen fifty five. In that introduction, 15 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:14.439 I told you the story of how the Sutton family 16 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.599 of Kelly, Kentucky claimed that one hot August night, their 17 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.120 tiny farm had been attacked by mysterious beings. In the 18 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.159 aftermath of that event, the story went out on newswires 19 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:27.000 and radio broadcasts, and soon their little farm was overrun 20 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.159 with the curious. But after days would know further signs 21 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.719 of the invaders. The community seemed to turn on these 22 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.439 poor farmers, and soon they were reticent to repeat their story. 23 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.359 Since those original events, there have been many theories on 24 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.640 what happened that night. Some believe aliens attacked the farm, 25 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.400 some believe the whole thing was a hoax. If you 26 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.640 look at the case on Wikipedia, you may find an 27 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.120 entry that suggests that owls and alcohol are at the 28 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.599 root of the story. We'll be taking up that version 29 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.719 in more depth than Part three of our coverage, but 30 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.760 for now, let's look at the research beneath that version 31 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:58.560 of events, and to do that we need to talk 32 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:01.799 with the researcher behind it, the Committee for Skeptical Inquiries 33 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:05.319 lead investigator Joe Nickel. Joe Nichol is one of the 34 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.479 world's most famous skeptics and is a paranormal investigator who's 35 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:11.080 always tried to use the scientific method as the basis 36 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.919 for his research. We've had Joe one Monster Talk several 37 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:16.639 times and once again we've linked to as many books 38 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.879 in our show notes at MonsterTalk dot org. Lately, Joe's 39 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:24.960 been calling himself a para natural naturalist. He explores the paranormal, 40 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:28.719 but tries to find natural explanations in two thousand and five, 41 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.840 some fifty years after the events at Kelly, Kentucky, Joe 42 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.840 was invited to investigate the case, and we'll talk about 43 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:41.039 his findings in this in depth interview. Monstertle, Welcome back. 44 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:44.199 It's great to have you here. You've been someone whose 45 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:47.120 career I followed for a long time and who I 46 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:49.560 try to emulate whenever I can, when it's appropriate. 47 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:53.080 Well, I think there are three or four of you 48 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.639 in the world. Yeah, it's a rare it's a rare group. 49 00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:58.639 It is a tiny group. 50 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.560 Yeah, just form a fan club, it would you know, 51 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.039 it would please me greatly. But no, Seriously, I have 52 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:14.960 had a long career. I'm approaching I guess by twenty 53 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.680 nineteen will be my fiftieth year doing what I do. 54 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:24.400 And uh, let's hope I make it beyond absolutely. 55 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.840 And you may be the only professional monster hunter in 56 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.120 the world who operates using scientific skepticism as your primary 57 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:31.879 mode of conduct. 58 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:36.039 Well, I think I think I may be. I'm also 59 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:41.599 maybe the only miracle detective, the only real ghost hunters. 60 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:48.360 It's a motley motley bunch of personas. But I sort 61 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.400 of invented what I do, kind of like Sherlock Holmes, 62 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.199 who told Watson, you know that he took stock of 63 00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:00.280 his you know, his pluses and minuses, and his work 64 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.280 was a good fit for him and he was the 65 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.000 only one in the world. And Watson said, kind of incredulously, 66 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:11.479 you know what, the world's only detective. And Sherlock said, well, 67 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:16.480 the world's only private consulting detective. You know, you need 68 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:22.560 a few adjectives, as do I. But I've I've tried 69 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:27.199 to put together an approach and let's see how well 70 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:27.720 it works. 71 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.160 Yeah, let's check it out with one of the more 72 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:35.839 intriguing monster stories out there. I just got through reading 73 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:41.000 a big stack of paperwork about this case. And so 74 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:43.959 it's called a lot of different things. I'm calling it 75 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:49.519 the Kentucky Goblin case, but the Kelly Hopkinsville case. He's 76 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:50.639 probably got a lot of different h. 77 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:55.480 And there's lots of lots of names. I think the 78 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.279 Goblin is a little bit you know, there's there's too 79 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:04.319 much emphasis us on the drawings. The drawings are, in 80 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:10.519 my opinion, not accurate, but we'll get to that. It's 81 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.879 certainly a case that maybe let me say what I 82 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.439 what I do with a case like that, because I've 83 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.480 I've done, you know, lots and lots and lots of cases, 84 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.199 and I have some ideas about what should come first 85 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:30.560 and what should come much later. I try to suspend 86 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.600 notions of belief or disbelief early on. I think it's 87 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:39.720 a mistake to get to too quick to decide where 88 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.439 something's going, because then you're into confirmation bias and you're 89 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.759 you can you know, you could take this case in 90 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.519 any of several directions and make a convincing case for it. 91 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:54.240 Picking and choosing, I try to first look at first 92 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.519 things first. So with with Kelly, the first thing we 93 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.399 have is we have a part of a flying saucer, 94 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.800 and the description of it is that it was a big, 95 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:11.199 big fiery something or a big fireball, words to that effect. 96 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:17.160 And when we consider that that occurred during the Percied 97 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:22.639 meteor shower, and that other people were seeing meteors, I 98 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:24.959 think we can be pretty sure that what was seen 99 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.560 was a meteor. And we don't you know right away. 100 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:35.360 I'm thinking there's an actual nucleus for the story. In 101 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:39.040 other words, a made up story might not have a 102 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.079 real meteor at the onset, but a real story might. 103 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.920 So I'm just just looking at things, and I'm thinking, Okay, 104 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.199 we've got to what appears to be a meteor. And 105 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:56.279 then further confirmation from that would be that it was 106 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:03.800 said to have sort of go over into that there gully. 107 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:09.160 And that's very much like what happened at flat Woods, 108 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:15.279 West Virginia a few years before, where some boys on 109 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:20.240 a playground saw a fiery UFO apparently land on a 110 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.040 hill and they rushed up and they saw and you 111 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:28.439 know the story. They eventually got dark and they they 112 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:32.519 encountered a being that I have identified as a barn 113 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:38.680 owl because it is very very specific to scriptors, and 114 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.199 of all the creatures on this planet, I believe it 115 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:47.360 fits the barn al best of anything. So that's I'm 116 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:52.519 looking at this idea of this this UFO sort of 117 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:58.000 landing over in the gully, and that's recognizable as a 118 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:05.399 very familiar illusion people see meteor and it always, I mean, 119 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.839 there were just many of these instances where it landed 120 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.399 just over there, usually just out of sight behind a 121 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.480 tree line or a hill or something, and it looks 122 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.439 because it's large and sort of awesome, it just looks 123 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:24.959 really close and it looks like it landed just over there. 124 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.360 And that's what happened. I feel quite sure at Kelly 125 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:36.279 that that was that familiar meteor illusion that we're so 126 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:41.399 familiar with, and so there was no spaceship. So when 127 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:47.159 I soon find critters, I don't think they're extraterrestrial. That's 128 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.720 not my first thought, although that was certainly the thought 129 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:56.039 of the Langford's and tailors and Suttons and all those 130 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.039 eight adults and three children who lived in that house 131 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:05.720 or who were there for a time. And then at 132 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:10.840 some point we get to starting to look at at 133 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:19.080 the fanciful part of the monsters plural. It was thought 134 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:29.000 that's something some kind of humanoid or anthropomorphic, like slightly 135 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:36.279 anthropomorphic figure had come from the flying saucer. And I 136 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.759 know that a lot of skeptics are very quick too, 137 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:44.440 because they don't understand what's actually happening. It seems to 138 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.120 me they're very quick to say, well, that was a hoax. 139 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:55.600 And I saw that with flat woods just as a 140 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:59.720 quick side trip, because it's it's I think it's very relevant. 141 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:04.720 I was to write some articles for a UFO encyclopedia 142 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.440 some years ago, and we re read on things like 143 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:10.720 crop circles and so forth, and at the end of 144 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.559 which I said, well, are you doing anything with flat woods, 145 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.960 because I thought of that as sort of my area. 146 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:19.600 And I said, oh, I've got someone who's written a 147 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.960 piece on that. He says it was a hoax. And 148 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:27.080 I said, you listen to me if you believe anything 149 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.080 I ever tell you, you believe that was positively not 150 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:36.519 a hoax. And there was sort of silence, and I said, 151 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.759 I tell you what, how about I write a piece 152 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.200 and then you can just decide which piece you find 153 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:43.519 most convincing, and that's up to you, you're the editor. 154 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.360 And my piece appeared, and I never heard any more 155 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:52.360 about this hoax hypothesis. But I think the person said, oh, 156 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.200 there couldn't be any kind of creature like this. Look 157 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.519 at listen to this, and there's no such things. So 158 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.799 these people made it up. And I had had the 159 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.200 benefit of actually going there, and among many other things, 160 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:09.799 the fact that they had actually seen a flying saucer 161 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.720 meteor which had been seen over three states. I knew 162 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.960 they didn't make that up, so I was already willing 163 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:23.200 to at least listen to, you know, and think, so 164 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.559 I think we have to be careful. One of the 165 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.679 pieces of evidence I had was one of the guys 166 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.600 who was there that night with the sheriff and others. 167 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.320 It's a little, very little community, and he told me, 168 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:45.159 he said, those people were absolutely frightened. He said, the 169 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:49.200 Lemon boy, Jean Lemon, he said he was throwing up. 170 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.759 And I recognized that as a sure sign of hysteria. 171 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.799 So I believed that they in fact had an encounter. 172 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:03.360 And then, as I say, I've explained it as that 173 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:09.200 scary nocturnal treator known as the Varnell came right at 174 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.799 them with those terrible claws and a high pitched hissing 175 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:19.000 sound and just scared them to death. So if I 176 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:23.679 look at the Kelly case, I'm looking at okay, I 177 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:28.600 think we're good. With the flying saucer and the sheriff 178 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.320 and some of the others thought these witnesses were telling 179 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.840 the truth. There was certainly a bunch of them, you know, 180 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.960 there were a couple of characters in there, and they 181 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:42.240 were doing a lot of shooting. But I'm persuaded, to 182 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:47.559 make a long story short, that several things are going 183 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.039 on in that story that don't sound like a hoax 184 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.279 to me. It's got too many moving parts, it's got 185 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.720 a lot of contradictions from one person to another, but 186 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.039 just the kind that you get when people have actually 187 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:06.600 seen something. There's some independent corroboration of some of the details. 188 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:12.679 There's physical corroboration. I mean, they absolutely did shoot shoot 189 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.320 off guns, because there are shotgun pellets in the door, 190 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.279 in the frame of the window. There were holes in 191 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.279 the screen, and I know people want to argue over 192 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:31.279 some of those urge caution upon them. Shotgun shells were 193 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.200 picked up here and there, and so there was shooting. 194 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.399 And the skeptics at the time is that, oh, they 195 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.919 just poked holes in the screen with a tobacco stick. 196 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:45.840 Are probably pretty pretty far off. If they had to 197 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.080 fake the gun, the bullet holes, if they had to 198 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.559 fake that, why were there actual shells around? I mean, 199 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.919 imagine a scenario where you and I are out there 200 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.120 going to make up a story and we say, hey, 201 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.000 wait a minute, let's shoot off our uns. But then 202 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.559 let's go in and poke holes in the screen. Yeah, 203 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:06.440 let's just the fake holes in the screen. I mean, 204 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:13.759 it just doesn't make any sense. Besides, ultimately, we don't 205 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.559 know every detail about the shootings. There were probably if 206 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:26.320 you count them up from Isabelle Davis's book. They're certainly 207 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:32.080 a number of shots, maybe eleven or more inside and out, 208 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:37.600 probably much more. Some neighbors heard nothing, others heard what 209 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.759 sounded like a small war. So we can't be very 210 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:44.960 definite about all of this. But shots were fired, because 211 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.679 I know that shells were picked up inside and outside 212 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.759 the house. I've looked closely at that, and so what 213 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:59.559 really interests me about the case is to look at 214 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.879 the creek what impresses me. And I was pleased to 215 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:09.559 find that my friend Brian Dunning had been impressed with that. 216 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.120 He got it from me, but I sold him on it. 217 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:20.399 How many similarities there are to this case, to this creature, 218 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.840 to the great horned owl, And there are more than 219 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.679 people suppose, I think, And the pictures don't. I know. 220 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.399 If you put a picture of the Goblin beside the Horndell, 221 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.720 who may think it's not very similar. But in fact 222 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:40.799 I've listed here, I can go over the list a 223 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:45.679 little bit quickly, at least twenty five points of similarity 224 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.840 that I have, many of which I find quite quite distinctive, 225 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:56.519 and that persuades me that they were seeing a real 226 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:03.759 creature and that it's quite terrestrial. For example, the Great 227 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.600 Horndell would have been in that place in time without 228 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.600 any problem. That would have been its habitat. There were 229 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:16.960 never more than two creatures seen it at any time. 230 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.480 So the fact that a couple of the good old 231 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:32.759 boys who were prone to exaggeration and being embroidering stories 232 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.039 or being excitable, however you want to put it, there 233 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.919 probably were a pair of creatures, and that would be 234 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.600 Horndell's who are monogamous in mate. It was at night, 235 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:53.159 which is these are nocturnal creatures. And to even say specifically, 236 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.960 and let me compliment Isabelle Davis for what I think 237 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.480 was a very good job from her perspective, trying to 238 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.480 do very you know, very difficult work under very difficult 239 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:09.799 circumss is. But I find her her book very helpful. 240 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:15.200 I I'm sure she's not a skeptic like me, and 241 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.440 she's not going to buy maybe my Great Horned l 242 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.200 but I'll do my best. But she certainly put a 243 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:25.440 lot of effort into putting in detail. And so she 244 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:30.880 takes the time to tell us that them, that Billy 245 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:36.839 Ray and Uh and Lucky were the two the two 246 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.680 main guys who were shooting him up, that that they 247 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:48.039 had noticed and and uh, Glenny Langford, who was maybe 248 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:56.440 the most sensible person there, a matriarch, family matriarch, and 249 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:01.079 and not given to much exaggeration. Uh, she's very clear 250 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.880 about what she saw on things. So we know from 251 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.039 these people that when they turned on the lights, these 252 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.000 creatures seemed to favor the dark and always were coming 253 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.799 to the house from a dark area, seeming to want darkness, 254 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:21.079 and this would be consistent with a nocturnal creature that 255 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:30.680 has very excellent night vision. Her account was that the 256 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.640 figure was about two and a half feet tall. Now 257 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.319 there are other estimates of three feet or four feet. 258 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.119 I'm going to prefer Glenny Langford because at two and 259 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.240 a half feet that's not much of an exaggeration. The 260 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:52.200 great Hornedelle could be twenty five inches over just over two. 261 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.680 Feet, and she seemed to be a very serious, sober. 262 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:04.039 Relis right, deeply religious and not sophisticated. None of the 263 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:09.240 people were, you know, urban sophisticates perhaps, But I don't 264 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.079 say that disparagingly because that's the kind of country I 265 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:12.720 come from. 266 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:14.480 Yeah, yeah, I'm a. 267 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:20.519 Kentuckian and they're just unsophisticated rural people. But anyway, she 268 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:22.480 comes up with a figure of two and a half 269 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.640 feet tall. Let's take that for the moment. And it 270 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:32.039 had it had a large round head, and repeatedly it 271 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.359 was said, there was no neck. This is we're talking 272 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:39.559 an owl here. It had large ears, So we can 273 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.880 eliminate barn owls and bar owls because they don't have 274 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.559 they're not true ears, of course, they're what are called 275 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.519 ear tufts. But let's just call them ears because they 276 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:55.200 looked like ears sticking up, and they were triangular and 277 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.720 pointed at the top, just like the great horned owls. 278 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.200 Is it had this creach sure or creatures had big eyes. 279 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:08.599 They were larger than the human's eyes. They were looked 280 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.680 like they were around almost on the side of the head. 281 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.960 That's a little bit of an exaggeration unless you look 282 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.079 at the great horned owl from the side and you'll 283 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:21.440 see how that effect would look like that from the front. 284 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.039 Even they have wide spaced eyes, and they have the 285 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.720 facial discs extend over on the left and right of 286 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.880 the eyes, so that they do if you were not 287 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.119 seeing things really clearly, might very well look like the 288 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.200 eyes were way over almost to the side of the head. 289 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:45.519 The eyes are they said we're shining or glowing, but 290 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.200 of course we know whenever people say they're glowing in 291 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.519 our world they're talking about eye shine was yellow eye shine, 292 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.039 and again that's the eye shine of the great horned owl. 293 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:02.720 This is not, for example, not mothmen, not the bardelll 294 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.799 I've identified as mothman, which has this bright red shining 295 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:12.519 eyes like bicycle reflectors. They said the eyes never moved, 296 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.960 and that would be true for the great horned owl. 297 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:20.640 It does not move its eyes. They did say that 298 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.200 it never moved its head either, and I think there 299 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.359 might be a little mistake in there, because they tended 300 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:28.279 to think it moved its whole body, but it didn't 301 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.960 move its eyes. The horned owl can move just its 302 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:38.079 head remarkably well. But I always expect a few little 303 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:43.599 discrepancies in these misidentifications, because if they were exactly accurate, 304 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.680 they probably would have said, oh, it's just an owl. 305 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.359 That they didn't They were misled by the idea of 306 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.480 a flying saucer and an extraterrestrial figure, and it looked 307 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.880 most people have not seen an owl at night with 308 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:06.279 a little bit of hyper terrestrialism in the presentation, right, 309 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.519 So if we just to go on through the list quickly, 310 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.000 long arms twice as long as the legs. Well, of 311 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.279 course the great hornedel doesn't have arms, but look at 312 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.240 it from the front, and they said it raised its 313 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:27.400 hands nearly every time it got ready to afloat, it 314 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.400 would raise its hands up over its head. I found 315 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.359 various references to that, and have the page numbers. And 316 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.119 of course if you look at the great hornedel from 317 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.799 the front, it's wings you're seeing. It's sort of on edge. 318 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:52.599 And let me invite people to look at pictures of 319 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.960 that and to look at because they said at the 320 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.680 ends of the arms were big hands. The great horned 321 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.759 owl has what looks for all the world like five 322 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.559 fingers on the end of each wing. It's really rather 323 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.880 striking if you've not seen that. And so it also 324 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:16.319 has the claws that were mentioned. Of course, the claws 325 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.559 aren't the hands. And there's always some little shift of 326 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:25.240 that because sometimes they're describing the ends of the wings 327 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.319 and sometimes they're describing the feet when it's on the window. 328 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:34.440 But in any case, it definitely mentioned claws that got 329 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.359 in Billary Taylor's in his hair right. He went out 330 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.759 and it was on the roof and it must have 331 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.119 touched him or something. The word talon's was used a 332 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.279 few times without being very specific, but again I'm happy 333 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:52.480 to just put that language into the discussion. They said 334 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:57.400 the creature walked awkwardly, as if on stilts, and an 335 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:01.799 awkward gait is of course characteristic to an owl. They 336 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:05.000 said the legs were spinlely, as spinley as broom handles, 337 00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:09.240 or it was stick like, and that's of course exactly 338 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:12.039 what we're expecting here with the owl. That's a perfect 339 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:17.200 description of an owl's legs. They said it floated, but 340 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.519 of course it put its arms up. In other words, 341 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.119 it would have floated at one point forty feet from 342 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:30.440 a roof to the fence. And this absolute silent movement 343 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.720 is characteristic of an owl because their wings are so soft, 344 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:37.720 the flight as noiseless. 345 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.160 They can just glide, which is really bad if you're 346 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:42.400 a little rodent. 347 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.799 That's right, that's right. And in fact, they were walking 348 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:52.200 around in the yard, probably partly looking in the dark 349 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:57.240 areas away from lights, looking for field mice. That's what 350 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:01.400 that's why they're walking on the ground. And so the 351 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:06.119 floating ability referred to a few times is significant. It's 352 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:10.160 people talk about owls having just that ability. It's remarkable. 353 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.680 The creatures, the extraterrestrial creatures had a tendency to perch. 354 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.680 They're described on the roof, They're described on the limb 355 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.160 of a maple tree. They're described on a fence, so 356 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.720 they're given to perch. And that's again, this behavior is 357 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:31.720 just so perfect for the great hornedel. They said it 358 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:36.240 was glowing or shining, but I think they're just referring 359 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:38.680 to the light under parts of it, maybe being having 360 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.119 a sheen or being caught in light. I can't do 361 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:46.079 much with that, you know. Actually, a pair of preachers. 362 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.759 Right going to say I did find an article where 363 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.400 at least one birder claims that there's some evidence he 364 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.279 found that owl's glow. I thought that was really interesting. 365 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:54.720 I didn't see. 366 00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:57.839 Yeah, it's usually there's a whole there's a whole lot 367 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:01.079 of information about that. I've run across that all my life. 368 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:04.960 Pretty much, barn owls and others are said, and there's 369 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.799 even in this case, since you're insisting on bringing this up, 370 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.839 that one place where the creature landed, the police, the 371 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.519 sheriff and others found a sort of a luminous spot 372 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:23.079 there on the ground, which might indicate that when the 373 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.240 animal was knocked off a fence or something, that that 374 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:30.039 had in fact left some of this glowing material. People 375 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:35.480 have talked about a fungus, but it's it's pretty scientifically doubtful. 376 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:40.119 It's never really been absolutely verified. It's it's it's somewhere 377 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.200 along the sort of like Bigfoot. It's people report it, 378 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.000 but it's it's not been absolutely certified yet, right. 379 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.119 I'm skeptical of that as well. But I thought it 380 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.359 was an interesting article. I'm gonna put a link to it. 381 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:55.279 It is interesting, and I was particularly taken by the 382 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.319 luminous spot on the ground. I thought that was really striking. 383 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.119 But I don't make anything of it from my point. 384 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:05.799 It could be any of a number of other things. 385 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:11.000 Something something rubbed off the animal, maybe some of the 386 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.559 feathers or something, and maybe there was just a sheen 387 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.759 from the light or something, a trick of light. That 388 00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:20.799 there was a pair of creatures. I mentioned and if 389 00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.559 you read the accounts carefully, and I believe it was 390 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.920 Glennie and maybe one other person who said, yeah, they 391 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:31.839 talk about there being all these those boys do, but really, 392 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:34.720 at any one time we never saw more than two, 393 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.799 really right, maybe three? And my count is two, and 394 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:44.640 I believe there were two owls. Owls are territorial, and 395 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.400 they're fearless, and they're persistent, And that's exactly the behavior 396 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:53.279 that we had there. No one noticed a mouth that's 397 00:27:53.440 --> 00:28:00.279 as would be expected. Perhaps it had sloping shoulders. It's 398 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.319 the if it's the owl, if you if you look 399 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:08.559 at a great horned owl, realize that people are kind 400 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:14.000 of misperceiving what it is. But but like I've had 401 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.319