WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.840 What the silvers of errors are, because this is all 2 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.120 like classic track as stuff. Now going back to the 3 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.560 Ten Books book, which lists sixteen documents. If you want 4 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:12.560 the easiest read to show that Vatican one, excuse me, 5 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:18.039 that Vatican two contradicts pre Vatican two theology, you get 6 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.640 the Ten Books book Popes against the Modern Errors, and 7 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.320 the first one you're gonna read is marri Voss of 8 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.679 Pope Gregor the sixteenth. Then you're gonna read Quantic Kurra 9 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.280 of Pius the ninth, and then you'll see the Silvers 10 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:31.839 of Errors of Pius the ninth, that's the one we 11 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.560 just looked at. Then you're going to see Leo the 12 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.439 thirteenth dea turnum Ilude, which, by the way, I've read 13 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:41.439 all of Liela thirteenth and cyclicals, seven hundred page book. 14 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:45.880 I read them all. Lie the thirteenth on Freemasonry Wjmanum 15 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:51.320 janis the Nature of Liberty, Lieo the thirteenth, Libertus praise 16 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:56.520 tantisimos prisetantissimum on the condition of the Working classes by 17 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:06.120 Little thirteenth Rerem Navarum on Christian Democracy. Lee of the thirteenth, 18 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.519 and then Lamentabile that we just looked at earlier, and 19 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.519 then the famous and cyclical of Pius the tenth Pacindi 20 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:19.200 dominici grages our apostolic mandate by Pius the tenth. This 21 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.040 is the condemnation of the Selon movement, which, if I recall, 22 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:26.120 was like a socialist movement, like an equalitarian socialist revolutionary movement. 23 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.680 The oath against modernism that Pius the tenth mandated feast 24 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.120 of Christ the King quas primos, which you've heard me 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:39.519 reference many many times on fostering true unity mortalium animos. 26 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:46.519 This condemns interfaith gatherings as apostacy, which I've cited into 27 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:53.239 infinity against Romancholics on atheistic communism by Pious the ninth. 28 00:01:53.319 --> 00:02:02.239 Divini redemntoris whom I jennaris by Pius the twelfth. This 29 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:09.439 is the one that allows for a theistic evolution. So ironically, 30 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:12.840 even though it allows for theistic evolution, it is intended 31 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.280 to be a condemnation of certain errors of modernism. So 32 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:20.759 that's why it's concluded in that book. So again, hopefully 33 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.599 I know that Roman Catholics don't read their books anymore, 34 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:28.960 but all the way up into the syllabus of errors, 35 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:32.319 you're still bound by the temporal supremacy of the Roman 36 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.479 bishop doctrine. And I've never heard about a continued person 37 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:40.280 and teach this anymore. Jonathan Towery twenty bucks. An image 38 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.400 of Jesus is not Jesus, an image created to represent 39 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:47.960 values and beliefs of a painter. No, that's not our iconography. 40 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:51.319 So I don't know where you get that idea. Jesus 41 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.800 does not represent God. Well, now you're an aran, so 42 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.879 you just expose yourself as an aerian ac twenty dollars. 43 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:59.360 What's up, man, Thank you so much. Curse work, one dollar. 44 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.759 I've requested to speak. I don't know who you are. 45 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.000 There's like ten people, eight people in here. Cursed work. 46 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:13.479 Oh there you are, cursed world. Excuse me? What's up? Dude? 47 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:19.759 Got on? Mute man? 48 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:23.280 Hey, can you hear me? 49 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:25.120 Yeah, what's on your mind? 50 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.639 Hey, Pastor Randy, thanks for taking my call. So I'm 51 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.199 not too long in the Orthodox world. I was brought 52 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.520 into the church a little over a year ago. Well, 53 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:39.439 my parents, who did a good faithful job of raising 54 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:41.199 me at least in the Protestant Church to the best 55 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:42.919 of their ability, the best of their knowledge. 56 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:44.719 They're kind of interested. 57 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.759 Me and my brother both converted, and so one of 58 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.520 these hang ups that my dad has, I'd like to 59 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.240 kind of argue that on his behalf, because I think 60 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.759 he's arguing in good faith or at least trying to 61 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:56.639 test these waters. 62 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.479 He's picked up a couple of books. But the thing 63 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:01.240 that he kind of hits me with and I don't. 64 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:06.159 Really feel equipped to respond to it very well, is 65 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:11.560 kind of a challenge of the Iconoclast period. And his 66 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.280 argument goes something like, Hey, you keep telling me that 67 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.639 the church has uh that the gates of Hell will 68 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:20.360 not and have not prevailed against the Church, But what 69 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:23.959 about this period where maybe a large portion or maybe 70 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.680 even a majority of those representing the church in an 71 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.600 official capacity condemned the use of icons And so I 72 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:32.519 never really know what's I mean. 73 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.040 No different than so in the fourth century, the majority 74 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.319 of the church became Aryan and semiarian right, and so 75 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:42.839 Nicia is what helped to solve that. But even after 76 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.399 Nicia it wasn't completely gone. You still had Eunomians even 77 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.360 into the time of Basil and the Cappadocians after Nicea. 78 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.879 So but the majority hold that the Aryans had all 79 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:00.040 the empire and their heresy was dead and dying after that, 80 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.279 even though they continued on. So the claim about the 81 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:05.720 church not having the gates fell prevail against it has 82 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.240 nothing to do with numbers and percentages. What it means 83 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:12.000 is that you will never extinguish the episcopae. There will 84 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:17.240 always be orthodox bishops continuing the true faith. Okay, there's 85 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.879 no promise to any specific area that the one in 86 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.879 Rome will never fail or the one I mean again 87 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.319 Romans eleven. Paul warns the Church of Rome that they 88 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:29.439 can be grafted out. Why would he warn them if 89 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.879 they could never fail? So you have these situations where 90 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.199 you know, entire regions can go into schism and leave 91 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:40.839 the church, And just because the majority of the empire 92 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:45.920 at a certain time becomes involved in error, whether it's 93 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.759 the airing crisis or the Iconoclass crisis, does not defeat 94 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.040 the meaning of the Gates of Hell will not prevail 95 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.439 because it's not a question of majority. It just means 96 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.720 that you can't stamp out the true faith. 97 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:58.279 Okay. 98 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:00.560 So when he follows up and is kind of like, 99 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.720 and I know he's being sort of tongue in chicic, 100 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.040 but if he's like well, how do you know that 101 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:08.519 you're not in one of those periods now where you 102 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:10.759 know a false How do you know what's. 103 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.720 Worth Because if I go to every ecumenical council, I 104 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.240 can read the canons and the decrees of those councils. 105 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.439 They're not that long, and every council states and explains 106 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.639 that their intention is to be consistent with the previous council. 107 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:25.959 So when I read Nicia, and I read Constantinople one, 108 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.399 and I read Ephesis, and I read calcilit on, and 109 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.199 I read Constantinople two and three, and I see A two, 110 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.519 And then when I read the Focian Council, and when 111 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.800 I read the Palmite Synod's like, the theology is the same. 112 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.160 Okay, all right, appreciate you. 113 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:42.759 Yeah. 114 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:44.560 And if you read the Seventh Council, for example, if 115 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.639 you read a St. Theodore the Studites book on the 116 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.720 icons or if you read John Damascus's book on Holy Images, like, 117 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.839 you'll notice that the arguments for the iconography is out 118 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:59.399 of the chrystological pronouncements of the free previous councils. The 119 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.319 energies doctrine and the divine hypostasis doctrine is the pre 120 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:08.600 subposition and the apologetic basis for the way that Theodore 121 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.480 and Saint John Damascus argue iconography. 122 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:22.920 Luther, Hey, can you hear me? 123 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:25.160 All right? 124 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.920 We talked last week about the Philioquay and a little 125 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:31.279 bit about nominalism and the Protestants. 126 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:35.240 I've been doing some research on the. 127 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:40.079 Phillyoquay and got to be honest, I don't love the 128 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:46.160 whole aspiration from the essence of God, isn't Isn't that 129 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:48.040 what Aquinas proposes? 130 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.199 Yeah? So not loving that. 131 00:07:53.279 --> 00:08:00.439 But I wonder is there any any permissibility from the 132 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:04.920 east an orthodox point of view of procession from the 133 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.959 Father through the son in an ontological sense. 134 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.759 Yeah, that's the definition of the Council of blacker name. 135 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.759 Oh all right, I was going to ask your thoughts on. 136 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.199 But that does not mean that does not mean that 137 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.199 the son is a co cause or a secondary cause. 138 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:24.879 The Father is the soul Christ. 139 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.839 Right, It would not fit the more. 140 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.639 Technical definition of the word for proceeds, correct, not the 141 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.320 kind of Yeah, and if you want the document, if 142 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:39.919 you want the document that it's not very long to read. 143 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.159 On that very point. It's called the condemnation, or it's 144 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.600 called the tomos against John Becco's. 145 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:53.759 All right, great, yep, well that was That was shorter 146 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:57.080 than I thought it would be. But I also ordered 147 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.519 that that book you recommended. 148 00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.879 Was it was it o. 149 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.799 Ye Haiko Oberman's book Harvest of Medieval Theology, where he 150 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.279 points out that Luther relied on William of Oakham and 151 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.519 Gabriel Bile for his nominalist positions. Correct. 152 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:18.480 All right, Is that related to a volunteerist view of God? 153 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:26.279 Yes, because William of Aukam argues that volunteers theological voluntarism 154 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.039 means that God can just declare natures to be the 155 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:34.120 opposite of themselves when he's so desires. So what makes 156 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:37.120 something what it is is simply the divine will or decree. 157 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.840 It's very similar to Islam. And so if God wills, 158 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.720 for example, to suddenly dam the Virgin marry after having 159 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.559 saved her, he can do that because God's will is 160 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.320 what determines nature's. It's not that God creates natures and 161 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:55.120 lets those natures be self determining. He arbitrarily can change natures. 162 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.440 And this is why Luther found that useful for even 163 00:09:57.480 --> 00:09:59.000 his doctrine of the Lord's Supper. 164 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.519 All right, well, I'm waiting on that book to show 165 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:05.919 up because I couldn't find a digital version online. 166 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:08.240 So I'll read that and see what I think about it. 167 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:10.440 But I would at. 168 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:12.360 Least at this point I would push back a bit 169 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:16.919 on Luther being voluntarist, and I would I would point that, 170 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:19.799 I would point you to that when he speaks of 171 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:25.000 God's will, he considers it immutable. So it's not that 172 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:29.720 God can ever will in a way that is contrary 173 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:31.399 to his eternal nature. 174 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:34.840 And no, that's not what the that's not what that's 175 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.879 that's not what the debate is. The vetas the Beta 176 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.600 is about created natures, whether or not they have their 177 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:45.720 own natural properties that make them what they are, which 178 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:51.720 would be a essentialist position versus the nominalist position that 179 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:57.519 God determines at any instance what the nature of that 180 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:01.000 thing is by pure divine will. So, in other words, 181 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:06.080 if God wants to, he can make created things into 182 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:10.080 their opposite, or he can make created things into uh, 183 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:16.200 evil things, perhaps because they're not there. Things do not 184 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.759 have natures, is the. 185 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:22.759 Point, all right, So it would be like a non 186 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:25.879 realist that is that another term for essentialists? 187 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.200 Yes, all right, well, nominalism is denying that creative things 188 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.200 have essences or natures that make them what they are. 189 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.080 It's just simply saying that we when we talk about 190 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.240 essences their natures, those are verbal terms that we give 191 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:45.759 to those things. That's a hence no name, non nominalism, namism, 192 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.840 not essentialism. 193 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.559 All right, Well, that book's on the way, so I might. 194 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:53.159 I might read it, and then I might. 195 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.759 I don't feel free to come about. 196 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.159 I'll let you know if I'm convinced by it. 197 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.799 Okay, come back. I mean, it's just one It's not 198 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.120 like everything hinges on that one book. That's just one 199 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:10.559 book about Luther's influence from that system. And I'm not 200 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.639 saying that that means that Luther's consistent with it. He's 201 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:16.039 not like some radical nominalists. He just utilizes it for 202 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:29.480 these types of issues to help boast vulturous theology. What's up, Jonathan, Jonathan, 203 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:53.240 you want to I mute Jordan. Guys who want to 204 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:55.240 support the stream, you can do so by the super 205 00:12:55.320 --> 00:13:01.360 chat function. Superchests are done natively through YouTube or through stream, 206 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.840 and I'll give you guys link stream lives. Link is pinned, 207 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:09.480 but you can also superjet right here. What's up, Jordan, guys, 208 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:16.559 you gotta turn your MIC's on. I don't like so 209 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.960 this is not for today. We're looking for disagree, not 210 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.360 all the ortho ros Matt Pete. 211 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:41.440 What's up, man, Matt? I'm mute. 212 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:43.440 I did can you hear me? 213 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:45.639 Now? Yeah? Hey? 214 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:45.919 Jay? 215 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:47.519 How you doing? 216 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:49.200 I'm good? Thank god? 217 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:49.600 Jay. 218 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:51.039 I wanted to two things. 219 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.720 The first thing I wanted to mention is I listened 220 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.879 to some of your live streams in the past who 221 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.200 had the UNI on them the other day, and then 222 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.039 prior to that, I listened to some Christian Zionist who 223 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:06.919 was like intellectually limited. So my first question to you 224 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.320 is do you have a problem getting more substantial people 225 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.440 on to debate, like Scott Hand for instance. 226 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:20.399 Yes, I don't think we've had a quality person offer 227 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.519 in a good while. I don't think Scott Hand does 228 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:31.919 manymore many debates anymore. I don't remember the last prominent 229 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.960 Roman Catholic where I was trying to set up a 230 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.879 discussion with Michael Knowles. I don't think Michael Knowles was 231 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.039 interested in that. So I think it's just going to 232 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:41.480 be me and Tim Gordon. 233 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.279 Okay, because it's that so many of them. I remember 234 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:47.600 another one with Pastor p I think his name was, 235 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:51.000 But so much of this it almost seems like God 236 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:56.759 forgive me juvenile delinquency almost like you know, and anyway, 237 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:58.279 I think you can do better if you can find 238 00:14:58.399 --> 00:14:59.759 you know, it was just cool. 239 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:04.720 Well, I definitely think you're right that. Like, ideally, if 240 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.200 we were in you know, more of a normal situation, 241 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.600 we would have better quality opponents. But I think we've 242 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.039 just gotten to a point where everything is just so 243 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.120 kind of crazy and everybody's so emotional reactionary, and you know, 244 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.399 the protest and Catholic worlds. You know, Orthodoxy has his problems, 245 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:24.480 but the Protests and Catholic worlds are just kind of 246 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:31.200 like collapsing. So, you know, I asked, I mean, Calvin 247 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:35.360 Robinson is an intelligent man. He's got four hundred thousand followers. 248 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:40.600 I asked him, in a very simple civil way, would 249 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:43.039 you like to do a formal debate? And he lost it. 250 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:47.840 So it's like people are just not able to handle 251 00:15:47.879 --> 00:16:03.759 this stuff anymore. Jonathan M. Hello, yeah, what something man? 252 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.000 Oh? 253 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:09.519 Sorry, the uh for some reason exbooted me out for 254 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:14.000 some reason after I you the So I gotta. 255 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:15.960 Question about something. I want to see if my argument. 256 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.000 Is good or not because I've never really tested it yet. 257 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.559 But the uh, the. 258 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:24.559 Question of icons and the paintings of Jesus and things 259 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:25.399 like that, So. 260 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:31.000 What is it? Let's see, So like, would. 261 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:32.759 You agree that when you see a picture of Jesus 262 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.720 that's obviously not Jesus, correct. 263 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.639 Right, So so then who would that be then in 264 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:41.639 your opinion. 265 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.679 Well, it's an image of Jesus, it's a type prototype relationship. 266 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:52.399 Yeah, so he's My argument is that, like the painter 267 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.840 is not creating a picture of Jesus, He's creating a 268 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:00.919 picture of the values of the of the time period 269 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.480 and of the commissioner and what he's trying to draw across. 270 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.599 It's kind of like how Buddha. 271 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.839 The statue of Buddha is like fat in one country. 272 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.119 Yeah, but that's not how Orthodox iconography works. Like, we're 273 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.480 not like Jesuits who paint Chinese Jesus and black Jesus. 274 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.119 If you look at most Orthodox icons, there's a pretty 275 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.880 unified standard as to what Jesus looks like. 276 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.359 So then would you be against Roman Catholic depictions of 277 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.279 Jesus versus Orthodox depictions or does it matter? 278 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:36.799 I mean, I just mentioned the Roman Catholic tradition of 279 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:45.160 deviating by making Asian Jesus black Jesus. I just said that, 280 00:17:50.000 --> 00:18:01.240 are you there? Are you there? I guess maybe you've 281 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:07.119 got a bad signal. So I mean, look, anybody. You 282 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:12.000 can't stop people from doing paintings, right, But in Orthodox 283 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:17.039 iconographic tradition there's rules and there's strictures on this. We 284 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.079 don't do like Jesuits do historically and famously, and then 285 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.759 many other Roman Catholics, Chinese Jesus and black Jesus. It's 286 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.680 not done because it's not true. Jesus was a Hebrew. 287 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.200 He's of a certain lineage. The Gospels make it very clear, 288 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.039 and it's very important as to who his descent was from. 289 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.440 He has to be from the line of David. So 290 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.839 he can't be a black dude. He can't be an 291 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:48.079 Asian dude. It's a lie, even if it's good intentioned, 292 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:54.680 because it's gnostic. It denies his Ethnos via his real 293 00:18:54.759 --> 00:19:00.880 incarnate state, his lineage, which the Gospels make very and stress, 294 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.240 and the Orthodox tradition has almost always imaged Jesus in 295 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:11.400 this same way. So you can't do black Jesus. There's 296 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:17.000 no Aborigine Jesus. That is a lie to do, So Pat, 297 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:24.519 what's up? Job five dollars? Can you do a Pastor 298 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.000 Randy Balls larp stream where you are against Protestants using 299 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.440 their own system like Jim Bob did with Christos his 300 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.880 new age persona. I'll think about that. I might do 301 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:42.200 a a Brandy ballstream could be funny. Maximum nine one 302 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.559 one gifts a membership. What's up? Shout out to the 303 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.680 new members and I think that that was the same 304 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.720 guy that's left the super chat. So I appreciate your 305 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.559 super chat, Jonathan. I wasn't trying to be rude, but 306 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:55.359 it looks like you have a bad connection, so you 307 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:07.759 dropped out, Pat. What's upthing is white Jesus? Ali uh, 308 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.279 Jesus is this person that you see here? So people 309 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.720 from the levant, people from that area can have light skin, 310 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.839 or they can have more olive skin. So you're deflecting 311 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:24.720 into something that doesn't even matter. White Jesus. Orthodox icnography 312 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:29.000 pictures him as a Hebrew person. He's not a black person. 313 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:29.759 What's up? 314 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:30.480 Pat? 315 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:51.200 A mute Heisenberg Mormon sasquatch? One dollar? We need you 316 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:59.400 to give a take on doctor Michael Cook Cheney he's 317 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:04.039 a Protestant who called out Sam Chamun. He makes interesting 318 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:10.079 biblical points. It's it's never ending of when you're going 319 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.440 to respond to this Protestant dude. You under said there's 320 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.680 an infinite like there's an infinity of Protestants and they 321 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.559 all make the same arguments. So how about we just 322 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.400 use the same refutation videos? Why don't you guty to 323 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.759 go clip them? I'm trying to make sure I didn't 324 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.279 miss any super chests. What's up? 325 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:30.400 Man? 326 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:31.839 Are you there? Heisenberg? 327 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:33.200 Hey? 328 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:33.480 Jay? 329 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:33.799 What's up? 330 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:34.119 Hey? 331 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.599 Two very quick questions and I'll be out of here. 332 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.240 I watching your lives and I've seen like a lot 333 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.839 of your book recommendations on like theology, but I was 334 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.480 wondering if you have any on like philosophy and like 335 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.559 towards atheism per se. 336 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.920 There's a couple of good books like Paul Davies's book 337 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.440 Mind of God. That's a good if you're an atheist, 338 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:01.720 that would be a good challenge. Yeah, like that, human, 339 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:11.480 what's up? When are you going to refuse Joel Ostin? Exactly? 340 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.160 It's like when are you going to review the Righteous Gemstones? 341 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:15.720 What's up? 342 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:15.920 Man? 343 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:28.759 Human? Unmute? Can nobody work Twitter today, King anime, what's up? 344 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:34.359 I think Twitter was was having trouble today. Maybe it's 345 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.720 not working right? You want to unmute hey? 346 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:39.559 All right? 347 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:44.759 So about the gain cover of Jesus and I don't 348 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:49.279 think it actually matters, but I'm curious because you make. 349 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.759 It seem like he's factual with that. 350 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.519 He looked the way he does in the Orthodox pictures, right, 351 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.119 So I'm curious what this one. 352 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:03.720 That it's an Orthodox tradition, So is it. 353 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.599 Like the So you're saying there's no like Biblical takes 354 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.680 back that upward. 355 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.440 Well, if it's an or our tradition, then it's not 356 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.319 explicitly in the Bible now, so we don't believe that 357 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.200 the only guide for the church is what's written in 358 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:18.640 the Bible. 359 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:22.119 Okay. 360 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.759 And on the death penalty, I heard you talk about 361 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:28.759 the death penalty before. Not just sure about your position 362 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.000 on it, but what do you think about the situation 363 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:36.200 where the woman calling adultry Jesus, you know, basically said 364 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.519 he who hasn't saying it can be the first one 365 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.440 that goes the storm. Do you think that's like against 366 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:43.079 the death penalty? 367 00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:43.359 No? 368 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:47.680 Because in Romans thirteen, Paul pretty clearly advocates explicitly for 369 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.000 the death penalty, that the state has the right of 370 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.400 the sword. So, and there's other places where Paul talks 371 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:55.400 about the death penalty that he says in Romans won 372 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:58.279 that certain people they deserve death for these actions. So 373 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.480 the death penalty is taught in the New te The 374 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.440 woman caught in adultery was a setup to try to 375 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.440 trap Jesus, and Jesus, being the ultimate judge of the universe, 376 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.720 can also commit someone's commute someone's sentence, and forgive them 377 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:15.880 as he did with the woman. So there's nothing in 378 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:20.640 that instance that reverses or does away with the rest 379 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.480 of the New Testament and Old Testament passages that legitimate 380 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:26.720 the death penalty. And in fact, many of the early 381 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.480 Church Fathers also continue the teaching of the death penalty. 382 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.519 It's really not until much later and then certain sort 383 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.160 of Protestant pacifist circles that you even get people saying 384 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:38.640 that it's wrong to have the death penalty. 385 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.400 Okay, and last question, I think I heard you say 386 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.079 and when you were debating Nicko Fointez or I'm not 387 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.359 sure exactly what debated was, but about certain like counsels 388 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.480 Orthodox counsels, being like, there is a possibility that some 389 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.599 of them can be wrong and you reject those Is 390 00:24:59.640 --> 00:24:59.920 that true? 391 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.000 Well, they wouldn't be Orthodox counsels if we reject them. 392 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.720 So no, an Orthodox council by definition is going to 393 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:09.079 be Orthodox. It's going to be teaching what's true. But 394 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.000 there have been false counsels. But everybody admits that, whether 395 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:14.640 you're Protestant, Roman, Catholic Orthodox, everybody agrees that there are 396 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:17.359 false counsels. So the question is, well, how do we 397 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.599 know and what sort of validates a true council? And 398 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.599 that's going to be different whether you're Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox. 399 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:33.480 All right, thanks, yeah, good questions. Ed, what's up? Man? 400 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:49.200 What's up? Ed Griffon nice Strom five dollars. I love 401 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:53.319 your stuff. I only click away when the person that 402 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.039 you debate is annoying to listen to. Well, thanks man, 403 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.440 I appreciate that. I think today has been pretty much 404 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.720 solid people. We didn't have any crazy wackos. Everybody was 405 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.880 pretty cool. I'm pretty chill. Patrick two five dollars. I 406 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.119 don't understand something. And the lecture that you did on Daniel, 407 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.519 you said that part of John's Apocalypse is warning about Nero. 408 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:19.599 In a later stream, you said it was about ninety 409 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:25.160 five AD. No, I don't believe that. I've always believed 410 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:29.160 that the Apocalypse was written prior to seventy a D. 411 00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:33.119 Because I believed since two thousand and one in a 412 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.960 partial prederres view. So I'm not sure where you're saying 413 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.119 that I said in a later stream the Apocalypse is 414 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.519 about ninety five a D. I mean, I may have 415 00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.920 misspoke or said something like saying that the latest date 416 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.119 that people give to John's apocalypse is towards the end 417 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:59.200 of the first century. But I don't believe that John. 418 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:06.559 What's up, man, somebody was fussing about some other minor 419 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.720 thing that I misspoke the other day. And it's like, guys, 420 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:11.920 if you do like multiple four or five hour live 421 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.720 streams or debates all the time, like you're gonna misstate stuff. 422 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:17.720 And I sometimes I hear if I listen back to 423 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:21.480 a podcast, Yeah, every now and then I'll misstate something, Okay, 424 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.599 but like that's not the end of the world, And 425 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.559 it's if you tell me or if you have a question, 426 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.440 I can explain it or how I perhaps misstated it. 427 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.759 But in most of these cases it's actually people misunderstood 428 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.079 what I said. But I do sometimes misstate things, sure, 429 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:40.079 everybody does. I mean that's part of being a fallible 430 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.480 human is that you're gonna misstate something. But I don't 431 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:48.799 remember believing in a late date for the Apocalypse. The 432 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.200 last time I believe that was like two thousand and two, 433 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:55.799 because once I read or no, even before that, I 434 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.400 read Gentry's book, and I read Chiltern's book, and I 435 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:04.119 read the four or five other partial preadorist books in 436 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:10.720 probably two thousand, So I've been partial predist before nine eleven. 437 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:11.039 Dogs. 438 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.359 So if I said that John's apartoss was written in 439 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.640 ninety five, ad oh, I know what you're talking about. 440 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.079 I know what you're saying. What I said was in 441 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:28.039 the Daniel lecture. I said, even the latest dating of 442 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:36.440 Daniel or the Apocalypse still has things that would be 443 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:41.279 admitted to be prophetic because of what happens in the 444 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:47.200 Roman Empire becoming christian for example, you know all that 445 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:52.000 the empire under which the Messiah is born becomes Christianized, Right, 446 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:58.359 that's the vision of Daniel and Daniel two. Even if 447 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:06.559 you date Daniel to Maccabee's time, which is the liberal dating, 448 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.640 it's still prophetic. So maybe you misunderstood the argument I 449 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:14.640 was making, and I said, even if you date the 450 00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:19.000 Revelation of John to the late date, it's still prophetic 451 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.400 for elements of things like the Christianizing of the Roman 452 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.599 Empire and what Christianity would achieve in history. I was 453 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:31.559 not saying I believe the ninety five eighty dating. What's up, John? 454 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:34.039 Hey are you doing? 455 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:34.799 I guess you can hear me? 456 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:36.759 Okay, huh, all right. 457 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.319 I wanted to get your position on Christian nationalism. 458 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:42.039 I don't know if that's something you hold, but my. 459 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:46.839 Question regarding that would be, how would if such a 460 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:51.640 Christian nationalist type scenario were to come about with an 461 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.960 Orthodox type leadership, how would the Catholic and Protestant church's 462 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:00.359 fair under that. 463 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.799 I mean, that only exists when you have a majority 464 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.400 of the population being Orthodox, so it's not even really 465 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.079 a relevant question. I mean, I do believe that nation 466 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:13.519 states when the vast majority of the people are Orthodox, 467 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.400 the state, through what's called symphonia, should reflect those values. 468 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:20.200 And that's what Roman Catholics and even some Protestants used 469 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.440 to believe. At least Classical Reformation people believe that the 470 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:25.519 state had a duty to God as well, even in 471 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.400 Protestant Nation States. So yes, the traditional teaching of the church, 472 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.359 whether you're Roman, Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox, is some type 473 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:38.440 of Christian nationalism and or Christian Orthodox imperium that was 474 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:40.240 the norm throughout the Byzantine period. 475 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.519 Okay, I was just curious to see what you thought 476 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:46.519 about that. There's been a lot of that on Twitter 477 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.000 x recently, and so his for you to ask. 478 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:50.200 Thanks for having me on man. 479 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:55.799 Yeah, I mean it's there's a lot of traps I 480 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.119 think going on with that stuff too, because we're not 481 00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:01.079 at a period when this is really a viable thing. 482 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.200 And so I don't agree with James Lindsay on his 483 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:12.279 Enlightenment stuff, but I do think that there are people 484 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:16.599 who could conceivably conceivably be entrapped through some kind of 485 00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:22.000 wild Christian nationalism. This could just not even relevant to now. 486 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.400 That could be breeding grounds for fed stuff. But that 487 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.160 does not mean that I believe that there's some sort 488 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.200 of pacifism or No. No, there ought to be a 489 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:39.039 Christian imperium when the majority of the people are Christian. 490 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:41.720 We don't live in that right now, So if that 491 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:47.200 ever happens that's like way down the road, Jonathan, what's up? 492 00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:52.200 I mean, Christianity is not a go after the state 493 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.279 and enforce the type of thing. It's a bottom up. 494 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:59.559 You convert people the way that we do it, and 495 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.240 if from the majority of the people are Orthodox, then 496 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:05.160 you get a Christian state. What's up? 497 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:05.359 Man? 498 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:08.519 Hey can hear me? Okay? 499 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.799 Yeah, all right, Hey, I had a question. 500 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.279 So I am promisant, but I have listened to you, 501 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:17.359 so I'm curious. 502 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160 You know, haven't read anything, so pretty much just taktok 503 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:20.839 brain rot here. 504 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.160 What do you think about the gates of Hell referring 505 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.880 to an actual physical location. 506 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.680 I don't find that very convincing, because you know a 507 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.799 lot of times that you have a patristic exegesis and 508 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.240 the church fathers refer to the gates of Hell as 509 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.440 the mouths of the heretics. 510 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:45.599 Okay, got it? 511 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.920 And then what about how God. 512 00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:51.039 Interfaces with the culture over time? 513 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:56.799 Does is it necessary to be orthomous to be saved? 514 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.680 Or you know, I mean I heard you earlier state 515 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.200 that to MUCHO much is given, much is required. 516 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:03.920 But I now have heard. 517 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:07.960 Written office requirements and am not inclined to pursue it. 518 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:12.400 You know, probably because I just enjoy the freedom that 519 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:16.759 I think Protestants in grants week, I recognize there's a 520 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:18.480 lot of cognitive dissonance. 521 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:21.039 Within it from hearing your arguments. 522 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.640 Your thoughts on that. Well, I mean, I think that's 523 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.519 a bad reason to remain Protestant because of quote freedom. 524 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.480 I mean, I don't even know what that means, because 525 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.200 that could mean to live a skittles lifestyle, that could 526 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:36.319 mean all kinds of things. I'm not saying I'm being serious. 527 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.599 I mean, I'm not saying that's what you mean. I'm 528 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:41.559 just saying, like, I don't know what that means. And 529 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:43.599 so I don't think just an appeal to some sort 530 00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:47.440 of amorphous, abstracted notion of freedom is any kind of 531 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:51.519 coherent justification from why Orthodoxy isn't the true Church. I 532 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.680 think what you need to look at is what church 533 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.519 put the bubble together? What did the Christians of the 534 00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:00.440 first thousand years believe? And if you're wanting to card 535 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.000 do for a sort of a you know, tailor made 536 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.039 buffet style approach, well that's the definition of a heritic 537 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:09.400 or schismatic. 538 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.280 Joe Ed. 539 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.039 Jay one dollar. Is there a prophecy that Rome will 540 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:30.800 return to orthodoxy. I don't know that's I don't I 541 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.079 don't know. There could be I'm not aware of that. 542 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.239 What's up man? Did you turn your mic on? Hey? 543 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:40.639 You're there? 544 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:42.800 Ye, what's on your mind? 545 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.480 So? I know it's a little off topic. 546 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.360 But the Christian nationalism thing, like if you had a 547 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:53.320 magic wand then you had the choice between having separation 548 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.599 of church and state in America or in the West 549 00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:03.840 in general, versus a orthodox based nationalist country, what would 550 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:04.440 you choose? 551 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.119 And have to quick follow up on that. 552 00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:14.440 Well, again, it would only work when the majority of 553 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.119 the population follows and believes the religion. 554 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:18.840 So if. 555 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.800 Yeah, okay, cool, I'm glad to hear that. And then 556 00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:25.880 those on like Project twenty twenty. 557 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:26.079 Five and. 558 00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:34.119 The the budget director I think his name is Islamic 559 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:38.440 last names like Vault. He was caught on a undercover camera. 560 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.719 I'm talking about how he's trying to slide in a 561 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:47.920 lot of like evangelical fundamentalist type of policies. 562 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:50.159 And kind of like not maybe. 563 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:56.719 Hijack or secretly hijack Trump's administration with some of his policies, 564 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.119 and you're seeing some of that actually come true. 565 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:03.039 What's your thoughts on five and the cur administration. 566 00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.440 I've heard people talk about this. I haven't put much 567 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.679 thought into it. I don't think that you're actually going 568 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:16.400 to get an evangelical theocracy. I mean, I think that's 569 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.199 kind of crazy, but I mean it sounds like something 570 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.079 that the left is just sort of creating into a 571 00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:27.760 giant bugaboo. It's probably a nothing burger. So, but I 572 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:32.360 haven't like read through it or whatever. I doubt that 573 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:37.320 that would go very far. So I'm looking for people 574 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.119 who disagree it's our last chance. I see a lot 575 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:46.400 of people who agree. We're not taking orthodox calls right now. Walter, 576 00:36:46.519 --> 00:37:00.239 what's up? Gonna on? Mute? Walt Walter on you? 577 00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:02.880 Oh why? 578 00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:03.840 Why? 579 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:04.280 What's up? 580 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:05.079 So? 581 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.800 I've been watching your debate with Alex Malpass on the 582 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.000 Losso logic. I think it's a very interesting topic. So 583 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.280 I was wondering if I could ask a couple of 584 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:15.079 questions about it. 585 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.599 That was six seven years ago, but I'll try to 586 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:21.679 remember as much as I can. Go ahead. 587 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:23.760 Oh yeah, it's a basic question. 588 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:28.760 So what At one point he said that I can't 589 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.320 talk us about a priori truths and things that are 590 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.679 truth according to the definition of words and gives the 591 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.679 example of the truth a square. 592 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:40.159 Is a polygon. 593 00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.239 That's just truth by bility of the definition of the 594 00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:46.960 square and polygon. So my question is, could it be that, 595 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.000 for example, I think it's identical to itself. 596 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.079 Could it be that it's just true. 597 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.079 By built by the definition of the war identical. 598 00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:59.559 I didn't hear the last part. Why now, I mean, for. 599 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:03.920 Example, or let's take law, the law of identity, I 600 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:09.559 think is identical with itself? Right, maybe that I think 601 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:13.960 this is a trivial truth from the definition of identical, 602 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.039 and it recall is no grounding. 603 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.320 What would you say about this, Well, it's missing the 604 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:25.760 point about what grounding is. I mean, saying that something 605 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.199 is true by definition still doesn't ground it, because well, 606 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:33.159 how do we know that it's a true proposition just 607 00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.599 because it appears to be self referencing or true. I mean, 608 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.239 that's really just missing the point of what self evidence is. Like, 609 00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:42.199 it's not a question of so if you say A 610 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.639 equals A, is it self evident? Yeah, in a limited sense, 611 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.880 but it's still not solving the criteria problem, right, So 612 00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.719 it's not addressing the epistemic question of justification. When you 613 00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.679 say stuff like okay, well, A equals A seems self evident. 614 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.079 Okay, I see, Okay, Well I have a second question. 615 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:10.639 So when atheists ask Christians, okay, why can't God make 616 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:14.000 a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it? What 617 00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:17.920 Christians usually say is, oh, he cannot do it, because 618 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.039 this is this contracts the loss of logic. But this 619 00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:26.480 implies that the loss of logic govern God. They limit 620 00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:29.719 gods of nipoptance, So I mean, how could they be 621 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:32.239 granted in him if they actually go earned him? 622 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.920 They covert him just like the That's not the route 623 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:40.599 I would take. It's a question of the word omnipotence, 624 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:44.159 and so they're importing a definition for the term that's 625 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:48.239 alien to and not what the system would determine. So, 626 00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:52.559 if Christianity is true, if God exists, then what omnipotence 627 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:54.800 is is going to be conditioned by who he is, 628 00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:59.000 his nature, his character, and so in the Christian definition, 629 00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:02.639 God doesn't contradict himself and doesn't lie. Paul says, is 630 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:06.440 impossible for God to lie. So God cannot create a 631 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:10.679 rock that's bigger than he is, or impossible to lift 632 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:14.800 or whatever, because it's a outside of the nature of 633 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:16.320 God's determination. 634 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:23.400 Okay, I see maybe one just one last question. What 635 00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:27.480 if someone say that the fucks that logic also logic, 636 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:28.800 but facts. 637 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.800 Well, just asserting that they are the case doesn't tell 638 00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:35.519 me that that that's the case. That's an assertion. So 639 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:39.079 how does that solve the criteria problem? So we have 640 00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.199 this question come up at the beginning. Criteria problem is 641 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:45.679 if you assert that you have knowledge, that assumes there's 642 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.519 some criteria of knowledge or what counts as knowledge. But 643 00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:52.639 to say that you have a criteria knowledge before having 644 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:56.400 knowledge is itself a knowledge claim. So the criteria problem 645 00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.880 is never addressed by people who just assert that, well, 646 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.400 that's just self evident, says who how do we know why? 647 00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:06.519 Okay, thanks here. 648 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.880 So they're just sort of like ad hoc arbitrary assertions, 649 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:14.400 and you can't do that in philosophy. Eric, what's up, guys? 650 00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:15.800 In remind you head on over to chalk dot com. 651 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.719 He's from Jay forty. You get forty percent off all 652 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.760 those great products over at chalk dot com. You can 653 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.519 unsubscribe at any time if you don't like the product. 654 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:27.960 I think you will, though it is a recurring subscription. 655 00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:29.760 It gets you forty four percent off all those great 656 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:33.039 products over at chalk dot com. If you just want 657 00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:36.079 to test it out, like the Tone Catiale, like the 658 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.599 Seven Wonders, like the Chad Mode, like the Action two 659 00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.679 point zero, you can do so by using j Y forty. 660 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.119 That's j Y four zero, and you can buy these 661 00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:46.800 individual You don't have to buy the whole stack. You 662 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:50.920 can get the individual products over at chalk dot com. 663 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:57.239 What's up, man, Hey, how are you good? What's on 664 00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:57.679 your mind? 665 00:41:58.599 --> 00:41:59.639 Okay, so this is. 666 00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:03.519 In the realm of disagreement, but with an open mind, 667 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:10.800 trying to understand the Eastern Orthodox slash Catholic position. 668 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:12.159 On the Eucharist. 669 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.880 Okay, And so I know they're probably. 670 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:18.840 Slightly different, but it's somewhat similar in just in layman 671 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:22.719 terms that you guys believe that the Eucharist becomes the 672 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:26.039 actual body of Christ and the blood. 673 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:26.639 The actual blood. 674 00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:27.840 Right, So. 675 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.719 It's just I know, it's kind of a basic question, 676 00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:35.039 and you're probably tired of going over this. 677 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:35.800 No. 678 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:39.079 I like this question because it's a very clear way 679 00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.360 to demonstrate the necessity of the essence entergy distinction, because 680 00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:44.119 if you don't have it, then you don't have the 681 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.960 real presence, and any Roman Catholic that you talk to 682 00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:50.400 will agree that the Eucharist is not the essence of God. 683 00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:53.280 Nobody's eating the essence of God. And if you read 684 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.519 Cyril in the two Letters to sixth Census, and if 685 00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.519 you read the decree the Anathemas of Ephesus, you'll see 686 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:01.679 that the argument about the Eucharist is a pretty strong 687 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.800 clincher argument. And if you read Cyril, it's only sensible 688 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.320 if you believe in the essenceyenter distinction, which Rome doesn't. 689 00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:10.920 So I would like to ask you, how is the 690 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:14.480 real presence if the grace that's there is a created reality? 691 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:19.400 Uh? 692 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.119 Can you ask a question one more time? 693 00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:25.280 How is it a real presence if what you're getting 694 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:30.519 in terms of the grace is a created reality? I 695 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.920 don't know exactly. So either there's multiple gods, because there's 696 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.920 created God and uncreated God, or there's an essence energy 697 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:43.719 distinction by which we participate in the uncreated life, light 698 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:46.400 and immortality of Christ through his deified flesh. 699 00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:51.760 So I guess does it become his actual flesh. 700 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:53.840 Or what is I would? 701 00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:54.360 I don't like. 702 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:58.039 So the Roman Catholic dictum is body, blood, soul and divinity. 703 00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:00.320 I don't have a problem agreeing with a Roman outlic 704 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.840 about that. But the question is, Okay, what do you 705 00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:05.679 mean when you say divinity, because it's if you don't 706 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:08.400 have the energies, you don't have the divinity. 707 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:12.199 I guess I'm just confused on whether or not it's 708 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.800 symbolic because when you're taking the Eucharist, it still is 709 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.119 the bread, right, and when you're drinking the wine, it 710 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:20.000 still is the wine. 711 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.239 I thought, so, I thought, you're arguing in the Catholic position. 712 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.800 No, I'm you know, I No, I'm not. I'm not 713 00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:30.199 a Catholic, Okay, no, No, So like I'm more of 714 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:30.840 an inquirer. 715 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:34.639 I see, But I was raised Protestant, and so I'm 716 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.519 sort of, like I said, I'm disagreeing, but I'm open 717 00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:39.920 minded to you know, like hearing. 718 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:42.320 I'm open to being convinced of your position. 719 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:47.039 Basically, yeah, I mean, visibly speaking, it has the appearance 720 00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.440 of bread and wine, but we believe that it really 721 00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:55.480 is changed during the uh you know, Epiclesis and the 722 00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:57.960 priestly prayer, so it really is the real presence. 723 00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.199 And you're you're getting that from the passages in the 724 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.599 Gospel where Jesus is saying drink of my blood and 725 00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:06.280 eating my body. 726 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:07.079 Is that where that comes? 727 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:08.880 I mean, I think there's a whole bunch of passages 728 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.039 that contribute to this, as well as Revelation five through nine. 729 00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.559 The lamb is slain in heaven, John is seeing a 730 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.679 heavenly worship service, which is the same worship service as 731 00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:22.079 what we see in the liturgy. I think it's also 732 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:26.960 in First Corinthians when Paul talks about the dangers of 733 00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:31.000 partaking unworthily, which wouldn't make sense of his only symbolic 734 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.400 but he says that if you eat of this in 735 00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:38.800 unworthy way, you can die. Hebrews thirteen has a significant 736 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:41.239 section when it talks about the altar that we eat from. 737 00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:46.119 That's where Paul uses the terminology of eucharistic altar. So 738 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:49.239 I think a lot of passages, not just John six, 739 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.960 but a lot of passages contribute to the real presence doctrine, 740 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.960 as well as the tradition in every one of the 741 00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.760 ancient seas having a liturgical service that is a eucharistic 742 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.960 offering sacrifice and mentioning the real presence. So the ancient 743 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:05.719 liturgies themselves also prove this. 744 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.079 Right. 745 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:12.719 So the Okay, to the real presence. I guess I 746 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.039 would need help with how I maybe I can go 747 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:16.360 do some homework as to like. 748 00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:19.360 Understanding what that means, because in the context of the 749 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.360 English language it literal means like very literal. 750 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.199 Right, Like there's a change. And I'll tell you that. 751 00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:29.639 If you want a great Orthodox statement, read what Cyril 752 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:34.159 writes to the two letters to six Census, Saint Cyril 753 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.599 of Alexandria. You can find those letters online. And the 754 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.119 way that he talks about the deified flesh of Christ 755 00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:43.519 in the Resurrection, he says, that's the exact same deified 756 00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.960 flesh that we eat in the Eucharist. Hence, read those 757 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.719 two letters and then read Cyril's anathemas that the twelve 758 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:55.320 anathemas against the story said ephesis, and you will see 759 00:46:55.320 --> 00:47:00.480 the connection between christology in the Eucharist says that we 760 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:08.679 eat his deified flesh. That's what deifies us. Okay, And 761 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:14.119 the Walman Catholic Church is crazy because they don't have 762 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:15.599 this clear teaching. 763 00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:20.320 What's the difference between Orthodox. 764 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:22.840 And Catholic Because they don't have the essence energy distinction, 765 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:25.760 and so they don't have a notion of the flesh 766 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:29.920 of Christ in the incarnation, being deified by the uncreated energy, 767 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:32.599 energies and immortality of Christ who took it on and 768 00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.559 thus by extension brought the bread and the wine, becoming 769 00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:42.760 the deified flesh in the Eucharist. That's only possible with 770 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:50.079 the essence energy distinction, because there's there's limited options here. 771 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.639 Are we eating the essence of God or are we 772 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.880 partaking of the energies when we eat His flesh and blood? 773 00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:00.760 There's only two options. If you are Roman Catholic, you're 774 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.760 not gonna say we eat the essence of Gud. Nobody 775 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:06.920 says that. Okay, So what's the divinity that we're eating body, blood, soul, divinity? 776 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.920 What is the divinity in that phrase? Roman Catholics have 777 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:17.239 to say, it's a created supernatural reality. Okay, Well, that's 778 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:21.400 not deification if it's just another creature. Jesus says he 779 00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:23.679 came to gave us, give us a share of the 780 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:28.719 glory and immortality that he has with the Father John seventeen. 781 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:32.159 That's not created. God's glory is not a creature, it's 782 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.960 uncreated glory. Well, how are we partaken of that? If 783 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.000 the If we don't particure of the essence. It's the 784 00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:39.599 essence energy distinction. 785 00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:43.000 Okay, I'm going need. 786 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:45.119 To study up more on that, and I'm really interested 787 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:48.320 to learn more and not to be too autistic, but 788 00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.639 like when you're in the liturgy and you're about to 789 00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:54.320 take the sacraments, are you about to take the Eucharist? 790 00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:56.000 How is it facilitated that. 791 00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:01.480 The essence of Christ is in the ukras that I 792 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:03.840 just said, it's not the essence of God. And that's 793 00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:08.039 the Roman Catholic would have to be. The Roman Countis 794 00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:10.119 have to be in that position if they believe that 795 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:15.119 you're eating the divinity. Okay, so we're eating body, blood, soul, 796 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:18.880 and divinity. The Orthodox position is the only one that 797 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.880 can make sense of this by having the essence entered distinction, 798 00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:27.440 because that's what deifies Christ's human nature. What we are 799 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.239 partaking of in the Eucharist is identical to the human 800 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:34.679 nature that he assumed his body. Ephesus teaches this as 801 00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:37.119 clear as day in the anathemis. I'm not fussing at you, 802 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.719 I'm just saying, like you would think people could just 803 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:42.880 go read the two Letters to six Census, where he 804 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:48.199 says that Christ's body is not deified by the essence, 805 00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.679 it's deified by the uncreated gifts of grace and immortality, 806 00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:57.159 and the same principle is applied to the Eucharist. It's 807 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:00.480 very clear. I'm not fussing at you, but just saying, like, 808 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:05.119 Roman Catholics cannot get this, even though every Roman Catholic 809 00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.519 who's worth assault believes in the real presence. The only 810 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:10.559 way to have the real presence doctrine is if you 811 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:12.920 believe in the essence inergy section and it's I. 812 00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:16.960 Think I'm coming at it from more of a Protestant position, 813 00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:18.159 even though I'm not Protestant. 814 00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:19.000 Is how it's raised. 815 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.760 So it's more of like trying to grasp the real 816 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:25.000 presence like versus the symbolic. 817 00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:26.960 But no, I mean, I'm going to read up on 818 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:28.119 what you what you mentioned. 819 00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:32.159 And then I was also just curious, like, during the liturgy, 820 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:35.880 is it when the priest blesses the Eucharist. 821 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:37.599 Is that one called the epiclesis, which is the calling 822 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.079 down to the Holy Spirit and the words of Institution. Right, 823 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.719 so Roman Catholics believe, for whatever reason, that it's literally 824 00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:47.639 just the words of Institution when the priest says the 825 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:53.360 magic words. The Orthodox view doesn't have this weird legalistic 826 00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:56.920 attitude as if you could, as if the Epiclesis, which 827 00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.400 is the calling down the Holy Spirit, is not part 828 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.559 of it. So you're just gonna get too that they're 829 00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:08.840 just hyper rigid legalists. They're silly. I mean, I don't 830 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:12.159 It's like, I'm not trying to be rude to you, 831 00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.280 it's just I don't understand why this is so confusing 832 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.639 to these people, not you, but to the Roman Catholics. 833 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.360 It's actually not that confusing if you're a Protestant coming 834 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:25.199 to this, believe it or not. And I've been making 835 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:27.559 this argument for years now. Oh, I mean, I've never 836 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:30.960 heard Roman Kelly address this. But you know why, because 837 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.320 they don't care what Ephesus says. They don't read ephesis. 838 00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:38.800 Remember Voice of Reasons says Ephesus aired, And he doesn't 839 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.719 even realize how stupid and damning that is to his 840 00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:44.920 own position. When he says that Ephesus aired and condemning 841 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:48.719 the Storius because the Storius wasn't actually heterodox. You understand 842 00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:53.119 that means that the acts and the anathemas are also 843 00:51:53.239 --> 00:52:02.400 therefore erroneous, because the acts and the anathemas are all 844 00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:11.960 about Nestorius. Okay, let's go down to the anathemas. Don't 845 00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:19.440 talking about the canons. About the anathemas. Okay, every one 846 00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.960 of these anathemas is about what Nestorius teaches. They're about 847 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:34.960 him by name. And he makes an argument about the Eucharist. 848 00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.679 If anyone does not confess that the flesh of the 849 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:52.679 Lord is life giving and belongs to the Word, but 850 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.400 maintains that it belongs to another beside him, a mere man, 851 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.920 let him be anathema. That's talking about the Eucharist. If 852 00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:07.079 you read Cyril's writings, he argues this argument against Nastorius 853 00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.119 about the Eucharist. But when did Roman Catholics ever care 854 00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:14.480 about the context and the actual theologians arguments. They just 855 00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.960 care about what the documents themselves say that supports the 856 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:23.320 papal position. But I've read Cyril at length of Alexandria. 857 00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:26.440 You could just read, for example, a small work like 858 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.559 on the Unity of Christ, where he will make these 859 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:33.840 types of arguments, and it's not that hard, you would 860 00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:39.679 think to understand this. But there's a veil over their minds. 861 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:42.239 They are their minds are cloud. They cannot grasp this 862 00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:45.159 because they don't understand the basics. They don't even understand 863 00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:48.440 the Trinity. They think the Trinity is some weird diad 864 00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:51.920 of an absolute essence, and it's like, that's not even 865 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.400 the right starting point for the triad. Starting point is 866 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.320 the person of the Father, as the Creed says. So 867 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.960 you're dealing with a weird philosophy cult when you're talking 868 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:08.719 about most Roman Catholics. And again it's funny because no 869 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:11.920 Roman Catholic will say that you're eating the Essence in 870 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.199 the Eucharist. Okay, well what are you eating? The only 871 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.800 other option for them is to say that it's a created, 872 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:23.679 supernatural reality. Well, that means that it's a created God, 873 00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:26.800 and that means that you're under the anathema of Ephesis 874 00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:33.039 Anathema eleven because what you get is not life giving. 875 00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:38.960 If it's a creature, this is life giving, because Cyril 876 00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:42.960 says in the Two Letters to six Census, it's the 877 00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:49.559 uncreated immortality, life, light and grace that deifies the flesh. 878 00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:58.000 If any Roman Catholic actually understood this argument, this alone 879 00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:04.199 would refute Rome. This refutes them, and it's not even 880 00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:09.079 that difficult of an argument. Jaden, twenty seven, Canadian Jay 881 00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.559 dow or the goat please to offer you some shuckles 882 00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:16.079 keeping me entertained. Keep up the work, good work. I 883 00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.599 figure out stream labs this next time, this money is 884 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:22.519 going straight to you. Well, yeah, you could just click 885 00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.039 over if you want to the next time, the stream 886 00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:26.159 labs link will take you over to a different page 887 00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:29.000 and then you just have to put the information in there. 888 00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:33.159 But of course stream labs is all given to the creators. 889 00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:35.920 If you use YouTube, you know they take thirty percent. 890 00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:40.679 Lower score golf with Ryan five dollars. I would argue 891 00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:47.639 against your eucharistic view. Yeah, please come back on where 892 00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:52.440 you're at. Oh are you that Roman Kelly did? It's 893 00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:58.960 super annoying. Again, you're not even listening to what I'm arguing. 894 00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:02.320 I know that you think as a Roman Catholic you're 895 00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:10.039 partaking of divine life. But the argument is that it's 896 00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:13.239 not a consistent position because it's not the essence of God. 897 00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:16.639 What's your other option? Your only other option as a 898 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:20.480 Roman Catholic is a created reality. Ryan, what is your 899 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:29.800 profile name? I need to know your profile name. This 900 00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:33.199 is going to be challenging. Let me see if I 901 00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:40.199 can find his Tell me your handle and I can 902 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:43.400 unblock you. If you go into blocks like there's just 903 00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.920 tons of people, I'll never find you in there. So 904 00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:59.079 what's your actual handle? Ryan? I need your handle? Okay? Ryan? 905 00:56:59.239 --> 00:56:59.639 K here? 906 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:31.440 All right, Ron, I'm sending you in DMS the link. Yeah, 907 00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:33.960 I got him. I unblocked him and sent him a link. 908 00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:36.400 So we're just waiting on Ryan to show up. Hit 909 00:57:36.480 --> 00:58:03.400 request to speak Ryan. Where you're at? 910 00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:03.599 Ryan? 911 00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:12.599 I thought you were about to pop up. We'll go 912 00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:17.480 to Wizzy while while we're waiting on Ryan. What's up, Wizzy? 913 00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:31.599 I'm you got I'm mute Wizzy. Yeah. 914 00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:33.639 So I'm just currently Roman Catholic. 915 00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.159 I'm kind of on my way out, and I'm just 916 00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.679 wondering about the limbo of the Fathers and if the 917 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:40.760 Orthodox hold to this. 918 00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:45.480 Well, we believe in the heroling of Hades, so there's 919 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.639 some overlap with the Roman Catholic idea. But look up 920 00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:54.239 the you know, heroling of Hades, that's a universal Orthodox teaching. 921 00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:58.239 Oh yeah, and then just a second question. I've been 922 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.280 kind of focused on more of the papers, see, but 923 00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:05.440 I kind of neglected a lot of the theological differences. 924 00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:10.000 It's just there any good beginner resources for things like essence, energy, 925 00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:11.360 distinction and theosis. 926 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.960 Yeah, I would start with something like mystical theology of 927 00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.719 the Eastern Church, and then I would move on to 928 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:26.800 something like Professor Manseritis's both deification of Man. Those would 929 00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:29.440 be places to start, uh, and then you can kind 930 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:38.480 of work on from there. Where's Ryan? At Ryan? We're 931 00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:39.480 waiting on you? Where you at. 932 00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:43.599 Ed? 933 00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:46.599 What's up? While we're waiting on Here's Ryan? So we'll 934 00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:47.920 go to add and then we'll go to Ryn. What's up? 935 00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:48.079 Ed? 936 00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:50.079 I'm you. 937 00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:54.880 Let me help this time. 938 00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:57.440 Yeah, I think there is something bugging with it. 939 00:59:58.159 --> 00:59:58.599 How you doing? 940 00:59:58.639 --> 00:59:58.760 Man? 941 00:59:59.159 --> 00:59:59.519 What's up? 942 01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:02.880 I wanted to pick your brain. 943 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.239 I know before we kind of talked and came to 944 01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:10.199 a consensus of like, secularism is a mistake just as 945 01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:15.480 a whole right. But I feel like maybe there is 946 01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:20.639 an argument to we had about misinterpreting religious freedoms in 947 01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:25.280 the United States. Do you think it's just wholesale religious 948 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.480 freedom or do you think maybe it is specific to 949 01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.320 what I would think is like the context of the time, 950 01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:37.159 not wanting to be persecuted by state church, not wanting 951 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:45.039 the benefits to be denominational specifically the Anglicans, and you 952 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:50.159 know quotes from John Adams about like the Constitution is 953 01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:52.920 made for a moral and religious people, it is wholly 954 01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:54.800 inadequate for any other right. 955 01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:57.760 I would then kind of. 956 01:00:58.280 --> 01:01:02.320 Be led to this idea that if the state and 957 01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:04.960 the nation are separate, I don't know if this is 958 01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:10.800 just semantics right the right then if a nation is 959 01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:15.320 a group of people's and not necessarily the state, right 960 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:19.039 is it would it then be I guess on target 961 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:23.000 to say the state was meant to be secular, but 962 01:01:23.119 --> 01:01:23.880 the nation was not. 963 01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:25.320 The peoples was not. 964 01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:29.800 No, I mean Romans thirteen says that the state is 965 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:34.719 a diaconos, a minister of God. So it's never been secular. 966 01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:39.000 Sure, But I'm talking about in the in the context 967 01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:40.880 of the Framers. 968 01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:41.159 In the United States. 969 01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:47.639 Are you so you're saying they said it was secular. 970 01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:50.000 I don't have any opinion on that. Maybe they did, 971 01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:52.880 maybe they thought it was a quasi Christian. 972 01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:55.559 Well, no, I'm saying as they wanted to set it 973 01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:58.360 up here, right, not in relation to. 974 01:01:58.400 --> 01:01:59.719 The Church as a whole. 975 01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:07.320 I'm saying that I understand that there are traditional American 976 01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:14.440 debates about how quote Christian the Framers and Founders thought 977 01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:17.960 that the church and state relationships were supposed to be. 978 01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:20.280 I'm just saying I don't really care about I'm not 979 01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.480 being rude. I just don't really have any set opinion 980 01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:27.639 on it because some of them were Christians, some of 981 01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:28.400 them were Deists. 982 01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:36.039 I mean, okay, I guess uh. The only thing I 983 01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:38.119 would have left for you is if I could follow 984 01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:41.639 up with a question about a tag position. I think 985 01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:46.639 tag is a strong argument. I've you know, done my 986 01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:49.440 due diligence and trying to understand the position, and you 987 01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:49.760 know the. 988 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:53.039 I read a bit of the Emmanuel. 989 01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:53.719 Kent but. 990 01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:58.599 But I mean Kant is not TAG, so but go ahead. 991 01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.480 Well right, yeah, But the in trying to understand transidentals 992 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:11.840 show My question then is how does it only lead 993 01:03:11.920 --> 01:03:14.119 to the Christian God. 994 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:18.719 I mean, I've got old talks that address this, but 995 01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:20.920 to go into it, just in brief, I would say 996 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:24.639 that the reason that it points in the direction of Christianity, 997 01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:29.159 or specifically Orthodox triad is that really only the Orthodox 998 01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:34.360 worldview gives you the metaphysical toolkit to do the grounding 999 01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:36.960 work is and that takes quite a bit of argument 1000 01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:39.920 and time to flesh all that out. But I want 1001 01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:43.599 our Rouman Catholic buddy to come back and argue about 1002 01:03:43.639 --> 01:03:53.599 the Eucharist. Ryan, you want to, I'm mute, hey. 1003 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:58.760 Excorry about that. I didn't realize the transition over you 1004 01:03:58.840 --> 01:03:59.960 might you might be disappointed. 1005 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:02.760 I don't necessarily have a full blown argument for this 1006 01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:06.719 yet because it's one of the distinct arguments of the 1007 01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:09.480 Eastern Orthodox that is sort of on the list. 1008 01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:12.840 And you be actually is kind of giving me articles 1009 01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.960 here and there and STU have to read. But I 1010 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:21.159 think I have like four categories of like potential pushback 1011 01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:21.440 on it. 1012 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.760 One uh yeah, yeah, yeah, ok, so as ince and energies, 1013 01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.800 and it basically falls into like it compromises the divine 1014 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.800 simplicity of God. 1015 01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:40.760 So man, I mean, I'm not trying to be rude too, dude, 1016 01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:44.320 but like this is like, do you not think that 1017 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:47.760 we've dealt without objection? I mean, I thought you want 1018 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:49.679 to debate the Eucharist, and now you're saying you want 1019 01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:52.239 to talk about like the number like the number one 1020 01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.119 objections about sincerean distinction. 1021 01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:55.920 Well do you? 1022 01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:57.559 I mean, when you were just talking about the uchars 1023 01:04:57.679 --> 01:05:00.159 in that Protestant or non precedent, you know what whatever 1024 01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:03.280 he was called, in the way you articulated the argument 1025 01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:05.920 I actually have never I don't think I've ever read 1026 01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:06.559 it or heard it. 1027 01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:10.159 That way, and it sparked interesting me. So that's why 1028 01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:10.639 I commented. 1029 01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:12.480 It was like, hey, I would actually like to formulate 1030 01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:15.000 an argument against this potentially and bring it to you. 1031 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:16.360 I didn't mean now. 1032 01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:20.559 Once I'm able to, but I did want to get 1033 01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:24.000 some clarification on it because I think I might have 1034 01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:25.280 some misrepresentations of it. 1035 01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:28.719 So first of all, if you read the debate between 1036 01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:31.639 Pola Moss and the Barley Mind, which is an eighty 1037 01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:37.039 page debate, the debate actually goes into what we partake 1038 01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:40.440 of and how do we partake of God without compromising 1039 01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:43.000 his simplicity. So I can tell you from the outset 1040 01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:48.880 the idea that a strong real distinction in God compromising 1041 01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:52.840 his simplicity is itself a problem in the Romancalolic position, 1042 01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:54.960 because you believe that the persons are really distinct in 1043 01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.639 the trinity. So if real distinctions compromise it, you're already 1044 01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:00.599 compromising it by being a sanitarian. 1045 01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:07.400 Okay, So yeah, that the composition issue. The other part 1046 01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.199 of it was the. 1047 01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:15.679 Like the cappit Docians in Dionysius, they used to use language, 1048 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:17.559 and I could be wrong. I'm going out the top 1049 01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:20.760 of my head processions, right, and like operations. 1050 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:23.639 The word is still in the Greek inner gaea. I mean, 1051 01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:25.239 you know that's in the New Testament, right. 1052 01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:27.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, But did they ever posit a real 1053 01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:30.719 metaphysical like divide from God? 1054 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:34.320 Not a divide. It's a distinction, is not division. Just 1055 01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:37.719 like when Basil makes the same argument about the persons, 1056 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:41.840 he says that the distinction between God and his energies 1057 01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:45.079 or operations is no different than the distinction between the 1058 01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.760 persons or the person and the nature and the triad. 1059 01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:53.559 Okay, what was the what was the the poalmus? And 1060 01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:54.679 what was the other person? 1061 01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:58.639 Dialogue with the Barley of Mind is an eighty page 1062 01:06:58.719 --> 01:07:01.599 book that is a debate on this very topic between 1063 01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:04.119 a can Dinos and Barlem. 1064 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:05.119 Okay. 1065 01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:06.400 And I think part of the problem is I'm not 1066 01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:09.880 like I don't I'm not scholastic and full in the 1067 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:12.199 sense of like Aquinas and stuff, So like I had 1068 01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:14.960 more Ciscotus on that side, So that might be some 1069 01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:15.760 of my confusion. 1070 01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:18.519 Well, I mean, but Scotis doesn't really help the case, 1071 01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:23.159 because a formal distinction doesn't really tell us anything about 1072 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:27.039 what we participate in. So in the dialogue that I'm 1073 01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:31.360 recommending to you, the course of the argument proceeds from 1074 01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:36.960 originally questions about composition and simplicity, and it eventually moves 1075 01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:39.920 into Palamas, arguing, well, what do you think we participate 1076 01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:42.719 in if there's not actual energies that are different from 1077 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.840 the essence, The Paloma synods end up using the terminology 1078 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.679 of a different reality. The reality of foreknowledge cannot be 1079 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:53.400 identical to the reality of providence and the reality of 1080 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:57.039 the divine essence, because, for example, God does different things 1081 01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.159 and does different works. So if for example, he creates 1082 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.920 a world over which he's provident, the exercising of the 1083 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.400 attribute of providence requires a world. But God did not 1084 01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:12.840 eternally have a world over which he was provident. 1085 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:12.840 You see. 1086 01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:15.679 So there has to be some distinction in God between 1087 01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:21.119 energies that are potential or that are powers versus those 1088 01:08:21.199 --> 01:08:23.439 that are actualized. And this is part of what the 1089 01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:26.880 essence sentity distinction does to make the note that God 1090 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:29.840 does different things. God wrested from the work of creating, 1091 01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:32.359 so he's not eternally creating. 1092 01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:33.439 Right. 1093 01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:37.239 Likewise, it says in Scripture and Zechari and in Isaiah 1094 01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.239 and in the Book of Revelation that there are seven 1095 01:08:39.319 --> 01:08:42.359 spirits of God and it lists those spirits as being 1096 01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.880 upon the son of God. Does that mean there's seven 1097 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.039 holy spirits? Is God's wisdom? Knowledge? 1098 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:49.600 Fear? Is that? 1099 01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:51.159 Are those things creatures? 1100 01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:53.359 So? 1101 01:08:54.079 --> 01:08:56.000 Well, did you hear what I said though, the seven 1102 01:08:56.079 --> 01:08:56.840 spirits of God? 1103 01:08:58.279 --> 01:09:00.520 Well? No, obviously the have of not say that. That's 1104 01:09:01.720 --> 01:09:02.560 I don't think I would. 1105 01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:04.279 Agree with that obviously, Okay, so are they? Are they 1106 01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:05.199 the essence of going? 1107 01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:07.840 Well, that that's kind of that's my I think that's 1108 01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:11.439 my next obvious question then, is like how do you 1109 01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:18.840 have like are the energies actual ontological distinctions in God 1110 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:20.479 or conceptual distinctions? 1111 01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:25.000 Now, they're really different realities, not mere conceptual distinctions, because 1112 01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:30.399 the reality of the divine essence cannot be identical to 1113 01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:35.000 the reality of providence, because if the divine essence is 1114 01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:38.840 necessary and eternal, then Providence is necessary and eternal. Then 1115 01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:41.840 there's a world over which God is providential for all 1116 01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:43.479 eternity necessarily. 1117 01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:45.800 So it is multiple realities. 1118 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:50.840 That's the terminology that the palmit sonods used. Different distinct realities. 1119 01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:53.199 Okay, all right, that makes it and if you. 1120 01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:57.159 Look at one hundred fifty chapters, it's like ninety eight 1121 01:09:57.319 --> 01:09:59.840 till like one oh three where palm moss E gauges 1122 01:09:59.880 --> 01:10:04.199 in and reductio arguments to prove that there are different realities. 1123 01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:06.800 And one of the arguments that he uses in those 1124 01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:08.359 reductios is what you just heard me. 1125 01:10:08.439 --> 01:10:13.119 Use, okay, And you would probably believe that, like the 1126 01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:17.520 entire Latin tradition fell into heresy because Palamas teachings were 1127 01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:22.000 pretty much condemned in entirety, right, correct, So you would 1128 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.600 agree that the Latin tradition fell into heresy from that 1129 01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:26.199 point or some point, Yes. 1130 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.760 But particularly during the period of twelve seventy four alliance 1131 01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:34.560 with the dogmatic definition of a double eternal hypostite procession. 1132 01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:39.159 The response Council Blackerne, the Palomite Synods and the Council 1133 01:10:39.159 --> 01:10:42.439 of Florence is the official departure. And there's a great 1134 01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:47.039 orange book here called Palamas's Readings by Norman Russell, and 1135 01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:48.760 it has all the Palomite Synods in it. 1136 01:10:49.880 --> 01:10:50.239 Is there. 1137 01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:58.359 Like pre schismatic language for the essence of energies. 1138 01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:02.000 Yes, letter two thirty four Basil says that we do 1139 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:05.039 not know or experience God's essence, but the energies or 1140 01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:09.039 operations the energeia come down to us. You could look 1141 01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:12.239 at Basils on the Holy Spirit, where he argues that 1142 01:11:12.680 --> 01:11:14.800 one way that we know that the Holy Spirit is 1143 01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:17.840 fully divined is that he has the same energy as 1144 01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:20.399 the Father and the Son. To have the same energy 1145 01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:23.920 signifies the same nature. You could look at Sat Maximus, 1146 01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:26.119 a confessor who uses the energies all the time in 1147 01:11:26.199 --> 01:11:29.039 his polemics. In his dispute with Paris, he uses the energies. 1148 01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:32.000 Saint Cyril of Alexandri uses the energies to help explain 1149 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:34.199 what it is that's going on in the Eucharist and 1150 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:37.960 what's going on in Christology. The Six Ecumenical Council, even 1151 01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:40.359 in the Latins with Pope Agatho, says that Christ has 1152 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:43.920 two wills and two energies. That means he does different things. 1153 01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:48.560 So to have Theophanes, for example, requires the essence energy stinction. 1154 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:51.319 There's no other way. There's no other toolkit or system 1155 01:11:51.760 --> 01:11:54.439 that explains or allows for the Theophanes to be real 1156 01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:57.479 other than the orthodox theological system. And that's why all 1157 01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.479 the Thomas have been openly denying it. In the last 1158 01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:02.079 month on Twitter. 1159 01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:08.039 Interesting, Okay, And for the sake of sounding like reducing 1160 01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:10.399 this to such a ridiculously simple. 1161 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:11.920 Degree, what is like? 1162 01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:16.800 Uh So, in Eastern Orthodoxy, you guys believe that you 1163 01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:19.640 guys are consuming the the divinity. 1164 01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:21.560 Obviously, obviously both sides believe that. 1165 01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:25.720 But what's the what would be the term that you 1166 01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:28.600 would distinctly say is different between what we're consuming. 1167 01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:32.640 We believe that we're partaking of a deified flesh that 1168 01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:37.399 is deified by the uncreated energies of Christ, and a 1169 01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.479 Roman Catholic must believe in some way that it is 1170 01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:44.159 a created reality that is the grace, the grace itself. 1171 01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:47.079 We're not talking about the elements. We all know the 1172 01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:51.239 elements are created. We're not talking about Christ's physical body, Okay, 1173 01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:55.760 we know that's created. The grace itself in the Roman 1174 01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:59.600 college system must be a created reality because it is 1175 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:01.039 not the essence of God. 1176 01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:05.600 Okay, So that's what I was going to, the essence, 1177 01:13:05.720 --> 01:13:06.960 not the energy. Okay. 1178 01:13:08.960 --> 01:13:12.319 Well, no, I'm saying the Roman Catholic position it doesn't 1179 01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:17.279 have the toolkit to explain it or to agree with 1180 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:21.439 Ephesus and Cyril, because they say, well, we're not eating 1181 01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:24.319 the essence, So what is the divinity? 1182 01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:24.520 Then? 1183 01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:27.600 Well, if you read the polemight the debate between pallem 1184 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.920 Aus and Barlamite Barley ends up I said, I can 1185 01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:36.359 I know something Barlin. Barlin ends up arguing, or maybe 1186 01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:38.760 as Ichonis for you, but he ends up arguing that 1187 01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:44.279 it's a created reality and he says, so there's created 1188 01:13:44.359 --> 01:13:48.520 God and he says, yes, well that's polytheism. 1189 01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:54.960 Right, yeah, clearly, Okay, you might have asked one more question. 1190 01:13:55.119 --> 01:14:01.399 Sure, so if God, uh, obviously I think you'd agree, like, 1191 01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:04.880 God's not subject to time or potentiality, right or would 1192 01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:05.640 you disagree with that? 1193 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:09.199 So the if you look at the Cappadocian teaching on 1194 01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:13.520 first and second actuality, they point out that God has 1195 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:16.319 powers that he doesn't have to actualize. So from all 1196 01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:20.119 eternity he has the power of creating. That does not 1197 01:14:20.279 --> 01:14:23.800 mean that he has always been creating, you see. So 1198 01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:26.880 that's the difference between the dunamis or the power and 1199 01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:31.840 doing and acting on the power. Okay, so in that sense, 1200 01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:34.960 there's first and second actuality in God. But no Tomas 1201 01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:37.119 would ever say that, because they would say that that 1202 01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:41.600 necessarily means God undergoes change and that he's a creature. 1203 01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:45.359 But the only way to maintain free will is to 1204 01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:47.840 believe and to point to what we're talking about. 1205 01:14:48.720 --> 01:14:50.640 Yeah, and I don't know that Scotus would agree with 1206 01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:51.720 the Thomas on that one. 1207 01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:53.319 But well hold on. 1208 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:54.159 So uh. 1209 01:14:55.439 --> 01:14:59.800 Even so, the formal distinction of the attributes, the only 1210 01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:04.119 analogy that it shares with quote pallemism is that it's 1211 01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:07.119 a stronger level of a distinction between the attributes and 1212 01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:10.920 the divine essence. But Scotism does not in any way 1213 01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.479 help answer the dilemma of the Eucharist and what you 1214 01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:16.159 partake of and whether the grace that we partake of 1215 01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:19.800 is uncreated. It doesn't even really go there. It's only 1216 01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:24.079 a position about a quote formal distinction, which is really, 1217 01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:27.560 according to critics, and I would even agree with the Thomas, 1218 01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:30.239 it's kind of unclear as to what exactly that is. 1219 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:35.560 And you know, in the Patristic tradition, when you have 1220 01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:39.399 the six Council or Maximus against Peuris at the sixth Council. 1221 01:15:39.479 --> 01:15:43.000 In his book, like he's not using these Scotist ideas, 1222 01:15:43.079 --> 01:15:45.760 he's just simply saying that now it's a real participation 1223 01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:48.239 in uncreated energies okay. 1224 01:15:48.520 --> 01:15:51.560 And that leads to me just one more question, sorry, 1225 01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:57.960 motion with God? Like would are you okay with God? 1226 01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:00.199 Because you said I agree with the potentials. Actually they've 1227 01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:02.199 always agreed with that. It always bugged me that the 1228 01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:04.279 West kind of had issues with God's potentials. 1229 01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:04.720 I think the. 1230 01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:09.239 Protestant view actually, if you remember Calvinism, like the decreed 1231 01:16:09.319 --> 01:16:11.760 will and the permissive will, that kind of think. 1232 01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:13.560 A line of thinking, well, this is more to do 1233 01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:17.840 with what's possible for God to do in time and space. 1234 01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:23.199 And so the ultimate difficulty here is number one, the Theophanes. 1235 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:27.319 But when Roman Catholics struggle with or deny a Theophanes, 1236 01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:31.880 they don't even realize they're already negating the incarnation. Because 1237 01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:35.560 the incarnation is the second hypostasis of the Godhead becoming 1238 01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:39.359 incarnate in time and space. He's self limiting. So the 1239 01:16:39.399 --> 01:16:43.840 Philippians two passage, the Kenosis passage, means that the second 1240 01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:47.880 hypostasis is willfully limiting himself in time and space. The 1241 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.159 Father is not becoming incarnate, the Spirit is not becoming incarnate. 1242 01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:54.600 So you need a metaphysics and a toolkit that allows 1243 01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:58.079 for one hypostasis to enter into a motive being that 1244 01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:02.399 the other two do not. But in Catholic absolute divine simplicity, 1245 01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:07.479 reducing God to actus purists and so forth negates already 1246 01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.000 the possibility of one hypostasis entering the time of space 1247 01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:13.079 that the other two don't, because in their view, if 1248 01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:15.920 God's reducible to essence, then it's the essence of God 1249 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:20.119 that became incarnate. It's just stupid, yeah, and that is. 1250 01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:22.319 It is something I've always had an issue. 1251 01:17:22.359 --> 01:17:25.199 I think the adoption of the Thomas view in such 1252 01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:27.119 a grand sweep has been a problem with that. But 1253 01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:29.439 so then you would say, like, if I wanted to 1254 01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:31.640 argue against this, right, obviously I got to go do 1255 01:17:32.119 --> 01:17:36.199 Like I've been working on the people and fallibility stuff 1256 01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:39.079 for so long, I've been looking at your arguments for that. 1257 01:17:39.199 --> 01:17:39.319 Right. 1258 01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:41.239 Well, just look at Leviticus nine. It says that the 1259 01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:44.880 glory of the Lord appeared visibly to all the people. 1260 01:17:46.239 --> 01:17:48.560 Fire came down from God and consumed the burnt offering 1261 01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.720 on the altar. When the people saw it, they shouted 1262 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:54.439 and fell in their faces. So here is a manifestation 1263 01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:58.680 of divine glory. Nobody believes divine glory as a creature, 1264 01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:01.279 as far as I've heard that would be idolatry just 1265 01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:06.560 to assign to a created thing divine glory. I mean, 1266 01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:08.560 that's definition of idea culture. 1267 01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:12.399 You would say that, like humans never see the God's essence. 1268 01:18:12.119 --> 01:18:16.840 Then correct, this is an energetic manifestation, a divine theophany, 1269 01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:19.520 which is the divine energies in time and space. 1270 01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:22.279 This might be such a stupid question, but how would 1271 01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:26.520 you reconcile that with Like, first John, what specific sorry 1272 01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:28.560 specifically like we shall see him as he is. 1273 01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:35.000 Well? But in Tewo Corinthians three he ascribes that aschotological 1274 01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:40.159 reality to the here and the now. He says, Moses 1275 01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:44.319 saw Christ's face to face, and what was unique and 1276 01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:46.920 rare in the Old Testament seeing Christ's face to face 1277 01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:50.720 on the mountain of Mount Sinai is now available to 1278 01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:56.239 the Orthodox in this life because glorification is here and now. 1279 01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:59.159 That's Paul's argument in St. Corinthiy's three, what was unique 1280 01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:01.159 in the Old Testament is now the norm for the 1281 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:03.760 Christian of the New Testament. We see Christ face to face, 1282 01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:07.159 he says. He says, moving from glory to glory, that's 1283 01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:10.479 glorification here and now. So that's a reputation, by the way, 1284 01:19:10.520 --> 01:19:11.359 of beatific vision. 1285 01:19:12.640 --> 01:19:15.479 So like First John three then and Red twenty two 1286 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:18.680 is like, for you guys, it's Jesus in that specifically 1287 01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:21.039 Jesus in that view the incarnate face rather. 1288 01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:23.319 Than the it would be no essence of the Father 1289 01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:23.760 or anything. 1290 01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:28.000 Well, John saying eschatologically that we will all see him 1291 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:31.000 as he is, does not deny it or negate that 1292 01:19:31.439 --> 01:19:33.399 in this life we also see him as he is. 1293 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:36.560 For example, Stephen, when he's being stoned, he looks up 1294 01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:40.079 into heaven and he sees the uncreated light shining off 1295 01:19:40.119 --> 01:19:43.520 the face of Christ. He sees the uncreated glory here 1296 01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:46.640 and now. So even the Book of Acts was Stephen's martyrdom, 1297 01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:50.920 refutes the idea that First John is excluding anybody from 1298 01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:52.199 seeing that until the escatone. 1299 01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:57.039 Okay, so just one last thing, just so, way, make 1300 01:19:57.079 --> 01:19:59.039 sure I'm headed down the right pathway here as I 1301 01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:01.640 try to, you know, engage this and hopefully come back 1302 01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:02.680 with an actual argument. 1303 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:06.960 Okay, that you would say that the main pinnacle of 1304 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:08.439 this thing is like that, I. 1305 01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:11.680 Would have to prove that we don't believe that the 1306 01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:15.560 U Christ is a created and created energy. 1307 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:19.199 I'm sorry, h Well, I mean it's already in Roman 1308 01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:21.600 Catholic dogma that it is a creature. So you can 1309 01:20:21.640 --> 01:20:25.239 look at Luluigot when he talks about sanctifying grace, he says, 1310 01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:27.800 it is a It is not God himself, It is 1311 01:20:27.880 --> 01:20:32.319 a supernatural created accident. So I think you're gonna have 1312 01:20:32.439 --> 01:20:34.840 to unless you can show that aught is wrong there 1313 01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:37.279 or something, I think you're going to have to go 1314 01:20:37.439 --> 01:20:39.319 down the route of saying that's a created God. 1315 01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:41.640 So what would. 1316 01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:46.840 If you could articulate, like like what I was trying 1317 01:20:46.840 --> 01:20:48.960 to do just now, which is like articulate the thing 1318 01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:51.720 that I need to refute but object to. 1319 01:20:52.479 --> 01:20:54.640 Or rather, I guess, explain to me what the divinity 1320 01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:56.720 is that you're partaking of in the Eucharist. 1321 01:20:57.399 --> 01:20:59.079 Okay, all right, that would be cool. 1322 01:20:59.560 --> 01:21:02.560 All Right, I'm gonna while while while I have you, 1323 01:21:03.880 --> 01:21:08.600 let me show you exactly where, because we've already got 1324 01:21:08.720 --> 01:21:11.880 Roman Catholics or people that are saying they're Roman Catholic. 1325 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:12.920 I don't know if they actually are. 1326 01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:17.319 Or not, but because I know that, I mean obviously like. 1327 01:21:19.279 --> 01:21:23.600 We we are partaking in the divine, like I understood 1328 01:21:23.640 --> 01:21:26.960 that very basic essence or essence that's rock words for 1329 01:21:27.079 --> 01:21:30.119 right now at a very basic level like that is 1330 01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:32.640 with the Yuchs alvias Is and coming from Protestant theology, 1331 01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:38.560 I for me, getting to the real presence point of 1332 01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:41.560 view took you know, a while or whatever, blah blah blah. 1333 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:43.640 So now engaging this is just like it seems like 1334 01:21:43.680 --> 01:21:47.840 a whole nother hill. But I mean, I think it's necessary. 1335 01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:50.720 It's probably I would say, one of the pinnacles screwed 1336 01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:52.039 people and failability and stuff. 1337 01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:53.079 This is more important. 1338 01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.359 Actually, I agree with you because you know, when I 1339 01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.600 was back in two thousand and seven eight, when I 1340 01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:02.399 was kind of struggling between being Uniate or being Tradcat 1341 01:22:02.560 --> 01:22:05.560 or being Orthodox, you know, I'll put a lot of 1342 01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:07.880 time into papal stuff and I kept I found I 1343 01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:10.239 found that I kept going just in circles with papal 1344 01:22:10.359 --> 01:22:13.119 quotes and quote minds. And then then you find out 1345 01:22:13.159 --> 01:22:15.319 about forgeries, and it's like, how am I I'm never 1346 01:22:15.439 --> 01:22:19.000 getting anywhere with an infinite stream of papal quote minds. 1347 01:22:19.119 --> 01:22:22.760 And uh, that's when I started looking at the theological 1348 01:22:22.840 --> 01:22:27.079 issues more specifically versus the ecclesiastical and ultimately that's what 1349 01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.319 made me never go back to the Roman Catholic Church now. Uh, 1350 01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.920 in this arguent article that I wrote many years ago, 1351 01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:36.800 Roman Catholic absolute divine simplicity refuted. If you scroll down 1352 01:22:36.960 --> 01:22:41.399 past a lot of the refuge references, eventually I get 1353 01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:45.319 to the section on created grace. And my argument is 1354 01:22:45.399 --> 01:22:50.159 that created grace is solidified in a few different places, 1355 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:52.359 one of which is the Council of Trent, which talks 1356 01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:56.640 about the fact that in baptism, when you're baptized, the 1357 01:22:56.800 --> 01:22:59.319 grace that you're getting and the righteousness that you're getting 1358 01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:03.279 is quote not God himself. It is not the righteousness 1359 01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:06.960 or justice of God, but it is a created reality 1360 01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:10.720 that makes you just That's in Trent Canon's ten and eleven. 1361 01:23:12.319 --> 01:23:17.159 And then if you go down to literally God, he says, 1362 01:23:17.279 --> 01:23:20.800 this is the sections in the funnels of Catholic dogma 1363 01:23:21.039 --> 01:23:27.239 on grace. Proposition number one is sanctifying grace is a created, 1364 01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:34.039 supernatural gift really distinct from God. So there you go 1365 01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:39.000 right there, and then literally contradicting that is proposition five. 1366 01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:44.279 Supernatural grace is a participation in the divine nature. 1367 01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:47.760 Can you can you expand on that just a little 1368 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:50.159 bit in terms of like what the contradiction. 1369 01:23:51.359 --> 01:23:53.800 The divine nature is not a create your creature. So 1370 01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:58.960 if sanctifying grace is a creation distinct from God, then 1371 01:23:59.039 --> 01:24:02.680 it's not a part in the divine nature. But proposition 1372 01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:05.159 five says that it's a participation in the divine nature. 1373 01:24:08.359 --> 01:24:08.680 Okay. 1374 01:24:08.920 --> 01:24:12.760 My immediate thought is the sanctifying grace as a created 1375 01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:13.760 supernatural gift? 1376 01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:20.640 Is it has less to do with the. 1377 01:24:22.399 --> 01:24:23.960 I mean this is again the wrong word to use, 1378 01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:27.279 but the material or essence of the euchris and rather 1379 01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:28.079 the fact that. 1380 01:24:28.079 --> 01:24:36.000 We are partaking in it, which would allow for supernatural grace. No, 1381 01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:40.479 that it actually doesn't work near mine? Okay. And this 1382 01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:41.079 articles on. 1383 01:24:41.079 --> 01:24:45.880 Your site right, Yes, it's called Roman Catholic absolute divine 1384 01:24:45.920 --> 01:24:50.479 simplicity refuted. And okay, the towards the bottom is the 1385 01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:52.119 section on created grace. 1386 01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:57.079 Okay, yeah, I'll get this. And then you said Columbus 1387 01:24:57.800 --> 01:24:59.039 the eighty chapter. 1388 01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:02.600 Yeah, the look, it's an eighty pages, it's not very long. 1389 01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:08.000 It's called Dialogue with a barleyon Mite. Okay, And you 1390 01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:13.439 can get that from NYU Press. It may be on Amazon. 1391 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:17.960 I'm not sure what why is this not a matter 1392 01:25:18.079 --> 01:25:22.600 of debate more, We've been bringing it up for ten years. 1393 01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:23.000 What do you mean? 1394 01:25:23.279 --> 01:25:26.720 Like I keep seeing everyone debate again papal and fallibility. 1395 01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:30.079 Like, I feel pretty confident in arguing for that. 1396 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:32.239 I feel pretty confident in arguing for the unity of 1397 01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:33.960 the Church and all that stuff against the Eastern. But 1398 01:25:34.119 --> 01:25:37.199 like this, I don't think I've ever seen an actual 1399 01:25:37.279 --> 01:25:39.720 debate on this. Is there anything you can point me 1400 01:25:39.720 --> 01:25:41.880 to that are remotely recent or now? 1401 01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:46.680 There's no Roman Catholics that are smart enough to debate it. 1402 01:25:46.680 --> 01:25:49.119 They're stupid. I'm not being mean, it's just the fact 1403 01:25:49.439 --> 01:25:51.199 the last time there was an attempted debate on this 1404 01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:56.279 was just a conversation between me and Lofton eight years ago. Okay, 1405 01:25:56.359 --> 01:25:58.920 so there's a conversation between me and Michael Lofton. You 1406 01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:01.960 can still find it where I go through this book 1407 01:26:02.039 --> 01:26:04.199 right here, dialogue between Orthodox and borlow Man. By the way, 1408 01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:07.760 it's free online. I don't even realize it's on. You 1409 01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:10.920 could go to archive and just download it and print 1410 01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:12.119 it out if you don't want to say it's only 1411 01:26:12.199 --> 01:26:13.039 like twenty bucks. 1412 01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:15.920 Though, yeah, I'll probably do that, and I'll go through 1413 01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:16.680 your article. 1414 01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:19.239 You will see, by the way, if you read this book, 1415 01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:24.640 everything that you hear me, like the stuff that I argue, 1416 01:26:24.720 --> 01:26:25.479 it's all just from this. 1417 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:35.000 So does anything from Palamise like outside of this in 1418 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:39.479 his theology, you know, raise questions for you at all 1419 01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:42.279 or no or it or you like is it? Do 1420 01:26:42.359 --> 01:26:45.039 you think he was articulated as a heretic in those things, 1421 01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:47.600 those that were done because they strictly flew in the 1422 01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:48.479 face of the West. 1423 01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:53.520 Yeah, okay, yeah, I know. He's one of our pillars 1424 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:54.560 of worthotoxy so. 1425 01:26:54.760 --> 01:26:58.880 Right, okay, awesome, Yeah, dude, I appreciate your time, precio. 1426 01:26:59.239 --> 01:27:01.159 I'm blocking it. I know we last time we had 1427 01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:02.359 a fucking yeah. 1428 01:27:02.199 --> 01:27:04.920 Fat well that s there's a lot more civil conversations. 1429 01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:05.560 I appreciate it. 1430 01:27:06.199 --> 01:27:07.479 Yeah, not me too, for sure. 1431 01:27:07.520 --> 01:27:10.520 So I'll hopefully come back and throw throw an argument 1432 01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:13.159 together and you can shoot on it, so we'll see. 1433 01:27:13.319 --> 01:27:15.560 No appreciate it. And I think we've got another one here. 1434 01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:17.840 Here's our other uni eate guy who's always wanted to 1435 01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:22.920 throw in the uniate stuff. Oh, I just took a 1436 01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:35.319 bunch of uniate argument notes. Go ahead, what's up? Are 1437 01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:36.199 you there, Jim? 1438 01:27:41.039 --> 01:27:41.239 Jim? 1439 01:27:41.279 --> 01:27:47.760 Are you there? Bond? Since twenty five, he says, is 1440 01:27:47.800 --> 01:27:50.399 Mount Tabor the only time that God the Father speaks 1441 01:27:50.439 --> 01:27:55.359 to man. Well, God of every action or every theophany 1442 01:27:55.560 --> 01:27:59.000 is triaddic. So no, but I think you're saying, like, 1443 01:27:59.159 --> 01:28:01.560 is that the only time that we hear an energetic 1444 01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:05.319 manifestation proper to the Father? Well, at christ Baptism, this 1445 01:28:05.560 --> 01:28:13.840 is my beloved Son. So even though that's an energy 1446 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:16.520 proper to the Father, it is still triadic, right, just 1447 01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:19.560 like the Theophanes in the Old Testament, those are proper 1448 01:28:19.680 --> 01:28:22.439 to the Son. They're still triadic. And there's still a 1449 01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:25.079 sense in which it's the trinity as well. Now it's 1450 01:28:25.159 --> 01:28:28.000 not the whole triad or the divine essence in time 1451 01:28:28.039 --> 01:28:32.000 and space, but you never have, for example, the presence 1452 01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:34.520 of the Son without the Father and the Spirit with him, 1453 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:35.760 because they endwell one another. 1454 01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:36.960 Right, So. 1455 01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:41.239 Where'd that gotta go? Jim? Where are you at? 1456 01:28:41.279 --> 01:28:41.359 Man? 1457 01:28:41.560 --> 01:28:43.079 Thought you're coming about? Here you go, Let's try again. 1458 01:28:44.640 --> 01:28:45.800 I think Jim's a union. 1459 01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:48.760 Hey can you hear me? 1460 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:49.119 Yep? 1461 01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:51.439 Hey can you hear me? 1462 01:28:52.680 --> 01:28:52.840 Oh? 1463 01:28:52.960 --> 01:28:55.039 Sorry, yeah, I was watching. 1464 01:28:55.439 --> 01:28:57.359 My question is on natural theology. 1465 01:28:57.399 --> 01:28:58.159 I was watching. 1466 01:28:59.479 --> 01:29:03.399 An interview with Richard Swinberg and Bradshaw. 1467 01:29:03.359 --> 01:29:08.560 And the thing to be advocating for natural theology in 1468 01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:12.920 a certain way, and my experience with it is the 1469 01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:15.520 Eastern northernox Church over the past century is kind of 1470 01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:19.840 skeptical of natural theology that we don't really advocate for it, 1471 01:29:20.520 --> 01:29:22.600 particularly would your. 1472 01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.039 Yeah. I mean I think doctor Bradshaw, like most academics, 1473 01:29:27.079 --> 01:29:30.520 as probably being as charitable and as amenable as possible. 1474 01:29:31.760 --> 01:29:35.359 The book that they put out about natural theology doesn't 1475 01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:38.560 really even address the Orthodox critique until a very late chapter, 1476 01:29:38.720 --> 01:29:41.399 and it basically just admits that. Yeah, some of the 1477 01:29:42.159 --> 01:29:44.560 you know, famous Greek theologians have been critical of it, 1478 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:48.399 like Losky, some other Russian theologians too. I think I 1479 01:29:48.439 --> 01:29:50.479 mentioned about Britn's school. I forget who it says, but 1480 01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:52.680 the point being is that, yeah, well of course we 1481 01:29:52.800 --> 01:29:56.279 critique it. Losquit has many critiques of it. Stanielou has 1482 01:29:56.319 --> 01:29:56.960 critiques of it. 1483 01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:03.560 Yeah, And is swin Bird an advocate of social trina 1484 01:30:03.680 --> 01:30:07.079 pairing Trinny and Terroanism because a good question. 1485 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:10.159 I don't actually know. I've read one critique of him. 1486 01:30:10.640 --> 01:30:13.319 He's a He's a Thomist, so I don't understand why 1487 01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:16.199 anybody wants to follow a Thomas and the Romanelly Church, 1488 01:30:16.279 --> 01:30:17.520 but I mean Northup Church. 1489 01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:22.399 Yeah, he's so he's kind of a weird cat because 1490 01:30:22.439 --> 01:30:26.479 he is Orthodox. He says he's Orthodox, but then he's 1491 01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:28.399 like way off on some something. 1492 01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:31.800 I know exactly. Yeah, the best critique of the best 1493 01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:34.840 critique of swinburn on this point is have you read 1494 01:30:34.920 --> 01:30:35.920 Theistic Fallacies? 1495 01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:36.600 No? 1496 01:30:37.319 --> 01:30:38.720 Oh, you got to read this. So this is an 1497 01:30:38.840 --> 01:30:46.560 article written by doctor Gariby and it's right here. 1498 01:30:46.880 --> 01:30:47.000 Uh. 1499 01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:51.199 He takes Swinburne as his chief example of someone to critique, 1500 01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:53.920 and he just takes him to wich Wood Shed. Basically, 1501 01:30:54.720 --> 01:30:58.880 all right, I'll check that out for doctor Gariby Theistic fallacies. 1502 01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:00.920 As I'll check that out. 1503 01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:04.239 And another thing is, you know, I don't I don't 1504 01:31:04.239 --> 01:31:06.920 know if you realize, but the guys like you and 1505 01:31:07.600 --> 01:31:13.039 let's say Joside trying to like uh, converts who started 1506 01:31:13.199 --> 01:31:16.159 in you know, as as Protestants. 1507 01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:20.159 And major way all the way to Eastern Orthodoxy over 1508 01:31:20.279 --> 01:31:22.760 the you know, just the vast amount of communications and 1509 01:31:22.800 --> 01:31:25.720 information that's been available on the internet. 1510 01:31:26.319 --> 01:31:28.840 You know, I was born into Greek Greek Orthodoxy in 1511 01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:34.279 the seventies and we had converts coming in and you know, 1512 01:31:34.479 --> 01:31:38.479 they just couldn't assimilate. Now, as we've become second and 1513 01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:41.079 third generation, it's changed and it said, you know, you 1514 01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:44.319 go to your Russian Orthodox Church and there's not just Russians. 1515 01:31:44.359 --> 01:31:47.520 There's Americans, there's you know, Africans, there's Asians. 1516 01:31:47.840 --> 01:31:52.119 It's all the stuff. But dude, keep going because you don't. 1517 01:31:52.199 --> 01:31:57.520 I don't think you realize how like, really effective. 1518 01:31:57.520 --> 01:31:59.960 It is when you have someone from with you know, 1519 01:32:00.039 --> 01:32:00.720 out like you or. 1520 01:32:00.760 --> 01:32:05.680 Josiah Trump coming in and like communicating to the Massis. 1521 01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:08.920 And I'm surprised you're not like a lawyer for the 1522 01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:12.439 ecumenical patriarchy or something like that, because you'd be awesome. 1523 01:32:12.159 --> 01:32:13.800 At well it'd have to be the CIA to do that, 1524 01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:18.199 So I'm not I thank you for your appreciate your compliments. 1525 01:32:18.399 --> 01:32:23.359 But stuff on DV fifteen dollars. The debate with Dasha 1526 01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:26.600 was pretty cool. People don't understand how the internet works. Anyway. 1527 01:32:27.119 --> 01:32:30.039 You see Islam taking over Western Europe. I'm in Switzerland, 1528 01:32:30.199 --> 01:32:32.359 so our turn is coming soon. How is it in 1529 01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:35.680 the USA? Is it a good option to move there? Well, 1530 01:32:35.720 --> 01:32:38.520 I've not been to Switzerland, so I can't speak to that, 1531 01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:40.840 but I mean, as far as I can tell, the 1532 01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:44.600 Nordic countries are being you know, islamicized as the rest 1533 01:32:44.680 --> 01:32:49.600 of Europe America is definitely way behind on Islamisization. It 1534 01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:53.960 has grown in the last few decades, for sure, So 1535 01:32:54.039 --> 01:32:56.640 there are more Muslims in America than there ever have been. 1536 01:32:56.720 --> 01:33:00.840 I think, you know, we drove to Vegas a few 1537 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:04.119 months ago, and I noted that I saw, you know, 1538 01:33:04.439 --> 01:33:08.840 mosques on Indian reservations, so you know, moss are popping up. 1539 01:33:09.600 --> 01:33:11.880 But you don't see Muslims everywhere, you know, Like if 1540 01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:14.319 you go to London, it's londona's dan right. I went 1541 01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:17.680 in twenty nineteen. I give a talk there, and I mean, 1542 01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:21.239 it's just Muslims everywhere, so it's not like that, but 1543 01:33:21.319 --> 01:33:25.479 there's definitely more, so it would probably be a better experience. 1544 01:33:26.359 --> 01:33:30.640 I'm guessing depending upon where you move. Now, there's some 1545 01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:34.199 places in the US that have been like flooded with Muslims, 1546 01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:37.359 certain areas, so you might want to avoid those areas. 1547 01:33:37.399 --> 01:33:42.119 But I thought I missed somebody super traid. Let me 1548 01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:45.279 see Brandon Brands stutter for two dollars. Have you seen 1549 01:33:45.399 --> 01:33:48.960 Michael Horton's video on soul scripture? Now, I don't I 1550 01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:51.640 mean people, I think people think I keep up with 1551 01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:54.079 all these Protestant dudes, like I don't keep up with 1552 01:33:54.119 --> 01:33:56.439 an these people. In fact, people were asking me questions 1553 01:33:56.479 --> 01:34:00.560 about did you what about Dasha and Hurricane connections to 1554 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:03.880 Bronze Age pervert and this and that and the Bronze Age. 1555 01:34:04.199 --> 01:34:06.560 I don't know anything about any of that. I mean, 1556 01:34:06.560 --> 01:34:10.039 I know who Bronze Age pervert is. I don't track 1557 01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:12.880 and keep up with who's attending what event and who's 1558 01:34:12.920 --> 01:34:14.880 part of Oh, that's part of the Peter Teele network 1559 01:34:14.920 --> 01:34:16.640 and this and that. I don't just don't know this stuff, 1560 01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:19.600 Like if you create your own content and do this 1561 01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:21.680 stuff all the time. By the way, I've been writing 1562 01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:25.199 Esa Clay with three of the last six months one year. 1563 01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:27.720 I don't have time to keep up with who's attending 1564 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:31.159 damn socialite events. I just don't have time for him. 1565 01:34:31.159 --> 01:34:33.760 Bro Us and. 1566 01:34:36.720 --> 01:34:44.720 Scott Horton Sola script Solo solo Solar panel, Solar Scripture. 1567 01:34:51.520 --> 01:34:53.439 I don't even know what Scott Horton looks like. Is 1568 01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:57.920 that this boomer do here solo media? Is this him? 1569 01:35:01.399 --> 01:35:12.039 So ten thousand views? This is pitiful, dude. Like when 1570 01:35:12.039 --> 01:35:13.840 I hear the name Michael Horton, I think I thought 1571 01:35:13.840 --> 01:35:16.199 it was like a young guy. This is Michael Horton. 1572 01:35:16.239 --> 01:35:21.800 He looks like he looks like somebody's like dying uncle. 1573 01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:25.439 I didn't realize he was that old, but whatever, Look 1574 01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:31.199 he's me and he's me right, raife Ralph Silky ten 1575 01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:35.319 dollars Jay explain Calvin Robinson's version of Catholicism. It's very unusual. 1576 01:35:35.399 --> 01:35:36.840 I don't know what his view is. I mean, I 1577 01:35:36.880 --> 01:35:38.880 don't like I just asked him to come to a 1578 01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:44.439 debate twice and he just flipped out, so like he's 1579 01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:49.840 got this weird like superiority condescension complex that how dare 1580 01:35:49.920 --> 01:35:53.800 you ask me to debate you and your This just 1581 01:35:53.920 --> 01:35:57.640 shows you know how bad you are and this is 1582 01:35:57.720 --> 01:36:01.079 your stick and this and that, and I'm like, did 1583 01:36:01.119 --> 01:36:03.199 all I did was send you a DM saying would 1584 01:36:03.239 --> 01:36:05.760 you like to have a debate about the Philly oquay 1585 01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:08.479 or orthodoxy? Gethalsis? I mean, he sends me this big, 1586 01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:11.600 nasty like this is why you're such a piece of trash, 1587 01:36:11.960 --> 01:36:15.880 why you're so evil. It's like this is what people like, 1588 01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:19.479 Why would you post dms? Because people think that they 1589 01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:23.199 think that I'm just like this randomly just rude person, 1590 01:36:23.279 --> 01:36:25.680 like I'm just going around being rude. Well, you publicly 1591 01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:28.640 said that he was scared. Yeah, after I DMed him 1592 01:36:28.760 --> 01:36:31.039 twice over several months to see if you'd like to 1593 01:36:31.079 --> 01:36:35.680 have a conversation. And now, oh, he's now becoming a 1594 01:36:35.760 --> 01:36:39.039 branch of old Catholics. Well guess what. Old Catholics are. 1595 01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:42.119 A bunch of skittles and spooks if you didn't know, 1596 01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:47.640 and a bunch of occultist. So that's even worse that 1597 01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:50.439 he thinks he's an old Catholic. By the way, there 1598 01:36:50.479 --> 01:36:53.119 was an old Catholic weirdo guy following me and tweeting 1599 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:55.600 at me, and I'm pretty sure he was Skittles and 1600 01:36:55.680 --> 01:36:59.479 I ended up blocking that dude. We had a meltdown. 1601 01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:07.359 By the way, why again, as I said at the 1602 01:37:07.399 --> 01:37:11.319 very beginning of the stream, like educated people are supposed 1603 01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:15.600 to expect to have people pushing back and asking to 1604 01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:16.960 do a formal debate. All you have to do is 1605 01:37:16.960 --> 01:37:20.880 say no. But he acts like, oh my gosh, look 1606 01:37:20.920 --> 01:37:24.079 at the audacity that someone would ask me to do 1607 01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:30.720 a public formal debate about the Philly OK, what's up, hello, Jake? 1608 01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:36.800 Uh My question is more gear towards how would you 1609 01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:42.479 convince someone that is a theist of Christianity in particular 1610 01:37:43.279 --> 01:37:46.199 as somebody that's gotten to the point where I am 1611 01:37:46.880 --> 01:37:49.560 convinced generally of the existence of a God. 1612 01:37:50.439 --> 01:37:52.239 How would you get me to the point of Well, 1613 01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:54.680 I'm not trying to be read to you, but like today, 1614 01:37:54.960 --> 01:37:59.279 the topics are very specific. They're specified as Protestant, Calic Orthodox, 1615 01:37:59.319 --> 01:38:02.800 So we're not doing deism today, we're not doing atheism. 1616 01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:05.920 If you do want to talk about that, definitely look 1617 01:38:05.960 --> 01:38:09.159 for another situation, Scott Grace, This looks like a Protestant 1618 01:38:09.239 --> 01:38:12.760 man here, he's got Protestant pastor vibes. 1619 01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:17.920 What's up, Scott, Hey, j how's it going. So? 1620 01:38:18.119 --> 01:38:22.119 I was calling in today because I wanted to debate perseverance. 1621 01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:22.039 Of the Saints. 1622 01:38:25.119 --> 01:38:30.439 Well, okay, that goes along with the rest of Tulip right, 1623 01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:33.520 So are you a full on Calvinist or you just want. 1624 01:38:33.439 --> 01:38:33.960 To do that one? 1625 01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:37.880 Uh, that one in particular, although I would be totally 1626 01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:41.640 open to doing more in the future. So there's a 1627 01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:44.399 lot of different ways that we can go with this debate. 1628 01:38:44.560 --> 01:38:45.800 I know it's very nebulous. 1629 01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:47.600 Well let me ask you this question for it, like 1630 01:38:47.680 --> 01:38:50.199 do you so? I mean, for for example, a person 1631 01:38:50.239 --> 01:38:53.479 could be an Augustinian and believe in the perseverance that 1632 01:38:53.560 --> 01:38:56.079 gifts of the perseverance and also believe that you fall 1633 01:38:56.159 --> 01:38:59.520 away and apostotize. So are you are you defending a 1634 01:38:59.560 --> 01:39:02.800 full Calvinists position or Augustinian position or what. 1635 01:39:03.079 --> 01:39:05.680 I would say the position would be more Calvinist in nature, 1636 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:09.680 because I believe that if someone is truly saved that 1637 01:39:09.840 --> 01:39:11.760 they will persevere to the end. 1638 01:39:13.479 --> 01:39:15.720 I don't know if that clears anything up, but well. 1639 01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:18.000 I mean, this seems like no true Scotsman fallacy to 1640 01:39:18.119 --> 01:39:21.039 just read state what it means to quote be truly saved, 1641 01:39:21.159 --> 01:39:24.439 because for example, in Hebrew six people partake of the 1642 01:39:24.479 --> 01:39:27.199 Holy Spirit. They eat of the you know, a good 1643 01:39:27.399 --> 01:39:29.079 word of God and the powers of the age to come, 1644 01:39:29.159 --> 01:39:30.640 and then they can apostatize. 1645 01:39:32.239 --> 01:39:36.479 So when we're talking about this topic, I would refer 1646 01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:40.399 to Versus in John for example. Within the context of 1647 01:39:40.479 --> 01:39:43.399 the verses, you know, they talk about that they were 1648 01:39:43.479 --> 01:39:48.600 with us, they participated in church, they were believers, but 1649 01:39:49.479 --> 01:39:52.039 since they left, it proved that they were never really 1650 01:39:52.199 --> 01:39:52.560 with us. 1651 01:39:52.880 --> 01:39:55.479 Well, that's one class of people who might have been 1652 01:39:56.199 --> 01:39:59.760 subverters or infiltrators. But there's another class of people in Hebrews, 1653 01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:03.039 say who partake of the gift of the Holy Spirit 1654 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:05.039 and the life to come, and who fall away. 1655 01:40:06.199 --> 01:40:09.159 So with the first verse, we don't exactly know if 1656 01:40:09.159 --> 01:40:11.880 they were infiltrators, I think, and it's okay to read 1657 01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:14.640 into the text. You may be right on that, but 1658 01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:18.439 we don't exactly know. Just looking at the verse in itself, 1659 01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:21.359 I think it's easy to come away with some underlying principle. 1660 01:40:21.920 --> 01:40:23.920 But even in John ten it talks about it. 1661 01:40:24.399 --> 01:40:26.439 You're missing the point. You're missing the point. 1662 01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:28.359 Well not Paris, and no one will snatch them out 1663 01:40:28.359 --> 01:40:28.800 of my hand. 1664 01:40:28.880 --> 01:40:31.600 You're missing the point. So I understand what you're saying 1665 01:40:31.640 --> 01:40:35.319 about first John, but I'm saying that it doesn't matter 1666 01:40:35.680 --> 01:40:39.880 if in that situation those people were never amongst us 1667 01:40:40.119 --> 01:40:44.359 or whatever. When you go to Hebrew six, there is 1668 01:40:44.479 --> 01:40:48.840 clearly another class of people who do have a partaking 1669 01:40:49.000 --> 01:40:51.279 of the heavenly gift and the Holy Spirit and taste 1670 01:40:51.319 --> 01:40:52.920 of the word of the Word of God and the 1671 01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:54.560 age to come, and they fall away. 1672 01:40:55.399 --> 01:40:58.239 Yes, So I want to address that now as well. 1673 01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:01.680 So with that verse, I don't think. 1674 01:41:01.560 --> 01:41:05.079 That that's necessarily a concrete example, because we also see 1675 01:41:05.800 --> 01:41:08.800 that in the end times when people come to Christ 1676 01:41:09.239 --> 01:41:12.079 and he says I never knew you. Their response is 1677 01:41:12.119 --> 01:41:15.479 that we prophesied in your name, We cast out demons 1678 01:41:15.520 --> 01:41:16.119 in your name. 1679 01:41:17.720 --> 01:41:21.079 Sir, assuming that there's one senseil knowing. 1680 01:41:21.279 --> 01:41:24.239 Hold on, hold on, clearly you can have gifts of 1681 01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:26.159 the spirit. I mean, Judas was a part of the 1682 01:41:26.239 --> 01:41:28.600 Twelve Apostles. He was out there healing people. 1683 01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:34.079 What does it mean to be enlightened in the New Testament? 1684 01:41:35.840 --> 01:41:38.000 Explain what it means to me. 1685 01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:43.279 I would say, to have an understanding of Christ, have 1686 01:41:43.319 --> 01:41:44.920 an understanding that the God had nobody. 1687 01:41:45.119 --> 01:41:46.680 And what does it mean to become a partaker of 1688 01:41:46.720 --> 01:41:49.479 the spirit, That you. 1689 01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:53.239 Are participating in things of the Holy Spirit. So you're 1690 01:41:53.319 --> 01:41:56.199 going to church, you're partaking in the sacraments. 1691 01:41:55.640 --> 01:41:56.119 Things like that. 1692 01:41:56.319 --> 01:41:59.000 Okay, so you just redefine it to be everything external 1693 01:41:59.119 --> 01:42:01.800 and nothing internal, because enlightenment is not external. 1694 01:42:02.600 --> 01:42:04.239 I would agree it's internal as well. 1695 01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:06.960 Just wait a minute, so now it's internal. 1696 01:42:07.760 --> 01:42:10.600 Internally, Okay, that doesn't necessarily. 1697 01:42:10.199 --> 01:42:12.239 Can they can they spring up? Can it be a 1698 01:42:12.399 --> 01:42:14.880 springing up to new life? Like the Parable talks about 1699 01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:15.840 the Parable of the Sower. 1700 01:42:16.479 --> 01:42:18.760 Well, I would say, if you have if you're reborn, 1701 01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:21.000 if you're reborn in Christ, then I would say that 1702 01:42:21.079 --> 01:42:22.840 you were saved individual. 1703 01:42:22.640 --> 01:42:26.920 Does the parable of the sewer? Does the parable of 1704 01:42:27.079 --> 01:42:33.560 the sower mention a new life that springs forth and dies? Yes, 1705 01:42:36.319 --> 01:42:39.159 but you just said if new life springs forth, you 1706 01:42:39.279 --> 01:42:39.760 can't die. 1707 01:42:42.319 --> 01:42:45.079 I would have to study the context of that verse. 1708 01:42:47.520 --> 01:43:02.920 For sure, child papist. Can you explain Calvin Robbins Catholicism. 1709 01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:06.159 I don't know. It's the lowest common de nominator. Anglican 1710 01:43:06.239 --> 01:43:10.760 branch theory is kind of the proto Ecumenism. It's the 1711 01:43:10.880 --> 01:43:16.600 origins of Ecumenism. So Calvin Robinson's version of it seems 1712 01:43:16.640 --> 01:43:20.920 to go from Anglican to old Catholic to who knows, 1713 01:43:22.159 --> 01:43:25.800 So it's not Catholicism. It's lowest common de nominator proto ecumenism, 1714 01:43:26.840 --> 01:43:27.920 child papist, I'm you. 1715 01:43:30.199 --> 01:43:35.840 I had a question on a actus purist and divine 1716 01:43:35.880 --> 01:43:38.840 simplicity and stuff. It just sounds like a repeat. Feel 1717 01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:41.640 free to like cut me off and directly to like 1718 01:43:41.680 --> 01:43:44.920 a source where you've already explained it. But I'm in 1719 01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:48.399 this medieval philosophy class and I'm trying to write against 1720 01:43:48.479 --> 01:43:51.399 actus purists, and one argument that they use is that 1721 01:43:52.479 --> 01:43:56.720 I try to say that, well, actus purists can't work 1722 01:43:56.920 --> 01:43:59.800 because then guy would have to be eternally acting. And 1723 01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:02.880 they say, oh, well he could have willed eternally to 1724 01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:05.760 act at that particular time, Like what, I don't know 1725 01:44:05.800 --> 01:44:06.640 how to respond to that. 1726 01:44:06.880 --> 01:44:09.760 Well, I mean, the Vine revelation says that he ceased 1727 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:12.640 from the work of creating, so that alone should be 1728 01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:15.560 enough to refute God as identical to act as peers. 1729 01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:18.800 If you watch the debate between Bradshaw and Toomashevsky, the 1730 01:44:18.880 --> 01:44:23.880 Tomas this comes up and Tom Bradshaw says, well, when 1731 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:26.560 it says God rested from creating, it seems like he's 1732 01:44:27.319 --> 01:44:31.680 not doing something that he was doing. And Thomas says, hmm, 1733 01:44:31.840 --> 01:44:32.319 good point. 1734 01:44:33.399 --> 01:44:35.279 Yeah, what's what's that called? Bradshaw? 1735 01:44:37.319 --> 01:44:41.960 I think it was on Sue on Sona's channel, and 1736 01:44:42.079 --> 01:44:44.720 it's like Bradshaw and I don't even know how to 1737 01:44:44.760 --> 01:44:47.600 spell that guy's name, Tomas. But if you look up 1738 01:44:49.800 --> 01:44:54.920 Sue on Sona's channel, I forget to do it's something 1739 01:44:55.039 --> 01:44:59.479 like intellectual conservatism or I don't forget, I remember his 1740 01:44:59.600 --> 01:44:59.920 channel is. 1741 01:45:06.239 --> 01:45:10.000 So it couldn't be the case that if he ceases 1742 01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:12.000 from creating, like, it couldn't be the case that he 1743 01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:14.319 could have just willed to stop creating at that point 1744 01:45:14.319 --> 01:45:15.159 in time eternally. 1745 01:45:16.399 --> 01:45:18.399 Well, the point is that his will is identical to 1746 01:45:18.479 --> 01:45:19.800 his essence intumism. 1747 01:45:20.399 --> 01:45:23.399 Oh right, yeah, I guess that's true. 1748 01:45:23.720 --> 01:45:26.439 Okay, So his channel is intellectual Catholicism. 1749 01:45:26.520 --> 01:45:29.800 Excuse me, and welcome to this episode of intellectual If 1750 01:45:29.880 --> 01:45:30.319 you go to. 1751 01:45:30.439 --> 01:45:39.720 His channel, you can search for Bradshaw actual catholicismshaw Okay, 1752 01:45:39.720 --> 01:45:42.000 and it's the second one that comes up. It's Palmism 1753 01:45:42.079 --> 01:45:44.800 and Thomism Bradshaw and Christopher Tomaszewski. 1754 01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:48.199 Okay, I see it. Thanks. Yeah. 1755 01:45:48.279 --> 01:45:50.800 So they actually have a pretty extended discussion on this 1756 01:45:50.920 --> 01:45:52.760 specific topic that would be perfect for you. 1757 01:45:54.159 --> 01:45:54.840 All right, thank you. 1758 01:45:55.119 --> 01:45:58.760 Yeah, that's a great question. Also, if you really want 1759 01:45:58.800 --> 01:46:02.039 to get into it, you can to get uh doctor 1760 01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:10.760 tikon Pino's dissertation book right here. It's Essence and Energies, 1761 01:46:13.000 --> 01:46:16.640 Being and Naming God in Secretary pemas. 1762 01:46:21.239 --> 01:46:21.359 Uh. 1763 01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:25.079 I think we're gonna do last one. I'm getting pretty tired, Hawsani, 1764 01:46:25.159 --> 01:46:25.439 what's up? 1765 01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:27.479 Dog m? 1766 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:31.720 What's on your mind? 1767 01:46:31.960 --> 01:46:36.119 You that it's a little bit off topic, so of you. 1768 01:46:39.119 --> 01:46:43.680 You there, you're cutting out, man, We can't heard you. 1769 01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:49.279 Last one. Nico Damus. 1770 01:46:49.439 --> 01:47:08.079 What's up, Dudek. Good on you, Niko Davis, you want 1771 01:47:08.079 --> 01:47:08.359 to I'm you? 1772 01:47:14.560 --> 01:47:17.960 Hello, Jay, thanks for taking me on. Glad I got 1773 01:47:18.039 --> 01:47:19.840 these in. I got some questions that are kind of 1774 01:47:20.600 --> 01:47:24.119 threw me off a bit. I heard another content creator 1775 01:47:24.560 --> 01:47:28.159 who is identified as Orthodox make some claims that I've. 1776 01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:28.880 Heard for the first time. 1777 01:47:29.039 --> 01:47:30.520 So would you mind telling what. 1778 01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.760 You believe the official Orthodox stances on these two things? 1779 01:47:33.840 --> 01:47:38.119 I greatly appreciate it, sure, thanks sir. The first one 1780 01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:42.760 is about John the Baptist being the last prophet. 1781 01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:44.039 That's the first time I ever heard of that. 1782 01:47:45.399 --> 01:47:47.840 Well, I think Jesus says that in Luke sixteen sixteen, 1783 01:47:48.079 --> 01:47:51.319 so he says that the law and the prophets were 1784 01:47:51.439 --> 01:47:53.800 until John, and since that time the Kingdom of Heaven 1785 01:47:53.840 --> 01:47:58.600 has preached. So it's definitely the term profit is used 1786 01:47:59.079 --> 01:48:02.319 for appalls and people in the New Testament, but I 1787 01:48:02.399 --> 01:48:05.479 think it's a different sense from what we think of 1788 01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:08.800 as the office of an Old Testament prophet, because Christ 1789 01:48:08.920 --> 01:48:11.600 is the final prophet, priestinc king. So you do see 1790 01:48:11.640 --> 01:48:14.119 people like Agabus and you know others in the Book 1791 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:16.000 of Acts who have the gift of prophecy, and we 1792 01:48:16.039 --> 01:48:19.920 would agree that you know, saints have clairvoyance or the 1793 01:48:19.960 --> 01:48:22.319 gift of prophesying, and prophesying, by the way, is also 1794 01:48:22.520 --> 01:48:26.640 just preaching, it's not just predicting the future. So but 1795 01:48:26.760 --> 01:48:28.520 in this in the Old Testament sense, yes, I think 1796 01:48:28.560 --> 01:48:30.079 Luke sixteen sixteen is saying that. 1797 01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:31.399 I see. 1798 01:48:31.520 --> 01:48:36.760 So in other words, a prophet and prophet and prophecy 1799 01:48:36.840 --> 01:48:40.159 is not exactly one and the same two separate things 1800 01:48:40.159 --> 01:48:44.199 as well. All right, my god, thanks, Well, I just. 1801 01:48:44.199 --> 01:48:47.079 Think there's a difference in like the what we think 1802 01:48:47.159 --> 01:48:50.640 of as an Old Testament prophet like Ezekiel or Malachi, 1803 01:48:50.840 --> 01:48:54.319 and you know what they're looking forward to versus what 1804 01:48:54.520 --> 01:48:58.520 Jesus says is the end of that era, that age, right, 1805 01:48:58.600 --> 01:49:00.279 he says that the law and the profit if it's 1806 01:49:00.279 --> 01:49:03.039 work until John and since that time the Kingdom of 1807 01:49:03.079 --> 01:49:05.600 Heaven has preached. And that's Luke sixteen sixteen. 1808 01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:07.880 Okay, all right, So the gifts that we get, like 1809 01:49:07.960 --> 01:49:11.680 you're saying, the clearvoyants and so on, that's a little 1810 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:12.520 different than. 1811 01:49:12.800 --> 01:49:16.680 Than than that. Okay, all right. 1812 01:49:16.760 --> 01:49:20.960 So the second thing was the Theodore was being sinless. Again, 1813 01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:23.199 that's a new one to me too. Is that an 1814 01:49:23.279 --> 01:49:24.880 official orthodox belief that the. 1815 01:49:26.720 --> 01:49:28.920 Yeah, so I have a video that you could do 1816 01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:33.920 that's it's a lengthier take on this because we have 1817 01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:38.600 a much more fleshed out, sort of holistic view that 1818 01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:41.399 Mary was also predicted in the Old Testament, and so 1819 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:44.880 she's the new Eve. She's what is the Temple of 1820 01:49:44.880 --> 01:49:48.079 Ezekiel forty four? She has the door that opens and 1821 01:49:48.199 --> 01:49:51.640 never that the Messiah goes through, but it's never opened, 1822 01:49:52.239 --> 01:49:54.920 so she's ever virgin. So there's a lot of things 1823 01:49:54.960 --> 01:49:57.600 that go into this, as well as Revelation twelve Queen 1824 01:49:57.680 --> 01:50:02.680 of Heaven. So our dog of the Spotless version, which 1825 01:50:02.720 --> 01:50:05.079 is not the same thing as the Roman Catholic Immaculate 1826 01:50:05.159 --> 01:50:10.199 conception teaching our doctrine is derived from a lot of passages, 1827 01:50:10.479 --> 01:50:15.159 interpreting those passages as well as church tradition. So now 1828 01:50:15.199 --> 01:50:18.039 there's not an explicit text that says Mary is the 1829 01:50:18.119 --> 01:50:21.319 Simleus version. But thank you for that question. We'll go 1830 01:50:21.439 --> 01:50:23.840 to Hasani and a couple of other other people getting 1831 01:50:23.840 --> 01:50:25.319 I'm just getting really tired, so you guys can call 1832 01:50:25.399 --> 01:50:26.560 back in next time. Last supper. 1833 01:50:26.640 --> 01:50:27.000 What's up? 1834 01:50:29.880 --> 01:50:32.039 If you go to YouTube my video and Mary. The 1835 01:50:32.239 --> 01:50:36.119 longer video it's called Veneration of Mary in the Bible 1836 01:50:36.199 --> 01:50:38.840 or something like that. What's up last day, last. 1837 01:50:38.680 --> 01:50:42.800 Supper on your whistle, Jake Hey, So I was reading 1838 01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:46.399 up on sing Guria Poulamas, and in the section the 1839 01:50:46.479 --> 01:50:50.640 Philolia in the defense of those who devoutly practice the 1840 01:50:50.680 --> 01:50:54.000 life of Stillness, if you're going down to section eleven, 1841 01:50:54.319 --> 01:50:57.399 he mentioned Saint Nilos of Italy. 1842 01:51:02.800 --> 01:51:03.000 St. 1843 01:51:03.079 --> 01:51:09.920 Nilos of Italy and then and Elias, which I believe 1844 01:51:09.920 --> 01:51:13.920 they're both from Colabrio. But the interesting thing about Nilos 1845 01:51:14.039 --> 01:51:18.199 is that he founded the monastery of Gratto Ferrada, and 1846 01:51:19.560 --> 01:51:25.399 after this schism they still remained a Byzantine Greek monastery, 1847 01:51:25.800 --> 01:51:27.800 but they were they were in communion with Rome. 1848 01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:33.720 So it's it's really interesting because Saint Nilos is mentioned 1849 01:51:33.760 --> 01:51:37.239 by Saint Gregory Palamas, and then the nearest saint to 1850 01:51:37.439 --> 01:51:41.039 him was after the schism, I believe in ten sixty, 1851 01:51:41.039 --> 01:51:44.399 which is Saint Peter of Gratto Ferrada. So if they 1852 01:51:44.520 --> 01:51:48.880 never accepted the created grace, which is uh, is that 1853 01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:50.319 totalistic the created grace? 1854 01:51:52.199 --> 01:51:54.399 Ultimately? I mean, I think it's in Augustine, but yes, 1855 01:51:54.840 --> 01:51:55.760 Tim Bose of them. 1856 01:51:56.279 --> 01:51:56.840 Oh gotcha? 1857 01:51:56.920 --> 01:51:57.199 Okay? 1858 01:51:57.880 --> 01:52:01.720 Well either way though, I was just kind of like 1859 01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:04.560 wondering like what would make their or taking in the 1860 01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:09.520 communion become in vain or like not Orthodox if they 1861 01:52:09.520 --> 01:52:13.560 were sticking to the teaching of Nilos, who who founded 1862 01:52:13.600 --> 01:52:14.119 the monastery. 1863 01:52:14.199 --> 01:52:16.119 Because yeah, I mean, I don't I don't have a 1864 01:52:16.239 --> 01:52:18.600 I don't have a problem saying that, you know, I 1865 01:52:18.640 --> 01:52:21.520 want to have as much flexibility during that period as possible. 1866 01:52:21.640 --> 01:52:25.840 So I mean it's not like I think that the 1867 01:52:27.119 --> 01:52:32.000 severance comes not so much when things are unclear, but 1868 01:52:32.159 --> 01:52:36.359 when people affirm like lions or something like that. 1869 01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:41.159 Gotcha. So it's a little bit later. 1870 01:52:41.119 --> 01:52:43.239 Than that, I would say. So, yeah, I mean, I'm 1871 01:52:43.279 --> 01:52:45.560 sure that probably a lot of people in the in 1872 01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:50.119 those places at that time probably had an Orthodox conception. 1873 01:52:51.239 --> 01:52:54.079 It's interesting because that monastery is still there today. 1874 01:52:54.159 --> 01:52:55.680 So if they never accepted the. 1875 01:52:57.239 --> 01:52:59.920 The kind of Western claims, but they still stayed in 1876 01:53:00.039 --> 01:53:01.079 community with Rome. 1877 01:53:01.159 --> 01:53:04.039 Well it's not I mean it's like eventually though, like 1878 01:53:04.319 --> 01:53:06.680 being quote in community with Rome means that you are 1879 01:53:07.279 --> 01:53:12.439 also by you know, by default accepting the Roman Catholic 1880 01:53:12.520 --> 01:53:17.359 cumenical councils and the things that they reject. So you know, 1881 01:53:17.439 --> 01:53:21.239 when exactly that is, I don't know where is this, 1882 01:53:21.359 --> 01:53:21.760 Where is this. 1883 01:53:22.399 --> 01:53:25.239 Can you tell me what it's see? I was listening 1884 01:53:25.319 --> 01:53:27.640 to it on on audio then I had to find it. 1885 01:53:27.760 --> 01:53:30.720 So it's in in the defense of those who. 1886 01:53:30.680 --> 01:53:33.199 Developed No, no, no, where's the monster. I'm just curious 1887 01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:33.720 because we were. 1888 01:53:33.680 --> 01:53:38.920 In it all. It's called it's in. I don't think 1889 01:53:38.920 --> 01:53:43.159 it's in collaborate it's in. Uh, it's a it's near Roome. 1890 01:53:44.279 --> 01:53:46.880 Okay, because we went to a lot of places. I'm 1891 01:53:46.920 --> 01:53:50.079 trying to see if we Oh, I don't think we 1892 01:53:50.159 --> 01:53:50.520 went here. 1893 01:53:52.199 --> 01:53:56.840 Grotto Ferrata, it might be the town actually, Okay. 1894 01:53:56.680 --> 01:54:03.079 That's a metropolitan city of the Roman capital and founded 1895 01:54:03.119 --> 01:54:04.479 by Saint Nihiles the Younger. 1896 01:54:09.159 --> 01:54:10.880 Yeah, I believe that's the same. Uh. 1897 01:54:11.199 --> 01:54:16.720 Nilis that Saint Gregory Palamas mentioned Nilas of Italy Rosano. 1898 01:54:18.359 --> 01:54:21.960 It's crazy because Barlin comes from Calabria too, but obviously 1899 01:54:22.039 --> 01:54:24.439 that's much later. He doesn't have ties to this this 1900 01:54:24.640 --> 01:54:28.840 Nilus who is from Calabria as well, and is from 1901 01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:29.880 Calabria as well too. 1902 01:54:31.199 --> 01:54:32.880 I'm just trying to remember if we went here, because 1903 01:54:32.880 --> 01:54:36.880 it looks kind of familiar, but like there's one million churches. 1904 01:54:37.800 --> 01:54:38.800 Would you go last year? 1905 01:54:39.279 --> 01:54:39.479 Yeah? 1906 01:54:40.119 --> 01:54:41.520 Yeah, I wasn't a last year too. 1907 01:54:43.960 --> 01:54:50.439 You were you on our coverage? No, No, I wasn't, okay, gotcha? 1908 01:54:50.479 --> 01:54:53.439 All right? Well, thanks man, I appreciate your comments. I 1909 01:54:53.600 --> 01:54:55.159 just can't remember if we went to this place or not. 1910 01:54:55.279 --> 01:55:00.720 We went to so many places. How Sonny? What something? 1911 01:55:00.720 --> 01:55:00.840 Man? 1912 01:55:01.840 --> 01:55:02.279 Try again? 1913 01:55:05.199 --> 01:55:06.199 Hey, Jake, you hear me better? 1914 01:55:06.279 --> 01:55:06.399 Now? 1915 01:55:07.560 --> 01:55:07.800 All right? 1916 01:55:07.880 --> 01:55:08.079 Cool? 1917 01:55:08.760 --> 01:55:11.000 Yeah, it's a little bit off topic, but since I'm 1918 01:55:11.039 --> 01:55:12.560 like the last one, I thought it would be cool. 1919 01:55:13.840 --> 01:55:15.079 Did you take a question? 1920 01:55:15.520 --> 01:55:17.880 It's actually like kind of two questions, like kind of 1921 01:55:17.920 --> 01:55:18.640 about feminism. 1922 01:55:18.720 --> 01:55:19.560 Is that fine? Yeah? 1923 01:55:20.239 --> 01:55:20.520 All right? 1924 01:55:20.560 --> 01:55:20.760 Cool. 1925 01:55:21.640 --> 01:55:23.399 I wanted to see if you if. 1926 01:55:23.279 --> 01:55:28.039 You saw what Andrew the whole Andrew and you know, 1927 01:55:28.119 --> 01:55:30.319 Tommy learning thing on Perris Morgan. 1928 01:55:31.119 --> 01:55:33.159 I'm not seen that yet, but I did watch all 1929 01:55:33.199 --> 01:55:37.000 of the Jake Rattlesnake Jim Bob debate last night, gotcha? 1930 01:55:37.199 --> 01:55:37.359 I did. 1931 01:55:37.479 --> 01:55:38.920 Well, see it's the other way around for me. I 1932 01:55:38.960 --> 01:55:40.760 didn't get to watch that yet, but I'm gonna watch. 1933 01:55:41.640 --> 01:55:43.399 It's the dullest I've ever seen in my life. 1934 01:55:43.840 --> 01:55:47.039 God, I know, uh that not so aarondyke chick was 1935 01:55:47.119 --> 01:55:47.319 up there. 1936 01:55:47.600 --> 01:55:50.640 She's she's one of the most pretentious, annoying motherfuckers on 1937 01:55:50.720 --> 01:55:51.159 the internet. 1938 01:55:51.239 --> 01:55:53.920 Man, So well, the the guy, the vet guy is 1939 01:55:54.039 --> 01:55:54.920 just as bad as hers. 1940 01:55:55.000 --> 01:55:57.319 So yeah, from from what I saw in the comments, 1941 01:55:57.359 --> 01:56:00.159 he's like a like was he just simping and saying. 1942 01:56:00.119 --> 01:56:02.560 Like what was he doing? Well, he was a perfect 1943 01:56:02.600 --> 01:56:04.399 feminist because he let her talk most of the time. 1944 01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:07.199 So yeah, yeah, then that checks out. She and she 1945 01:56:07.279 --> 01:56:09.920 does like the talk, so that that definitely checks out. 1946 01:56:09.960 --> 01:56:13.520 But the whole Andrew thing was it boiled down to 1947 01:56:13.640 --> 01:56:14.119 one question. 1948 01:56:14.239 --> 01:56:17.159 He literally just because obviously, you know, she started off. 1949 01:56:17.119 --> 01:56:20.279 Saying how men, how men today? Or this or that 1950 01:56:20.479 --> 01:56:23.520 we femin and blah blah blah, and his rebuttal was 1951 01:56:23.800 --> 01:56:26.319 was one simple question, and she spurreed, she spurred out, 1952 01:56:26.359 --> 01:56:29.880 and a pissed off Peers didn't allow Andrew to press 1953 01:56:29.920 --> 01:56:30.159 it on it. 1954 01:56:30.239 --> 01:56:32.520 He literally just asked, through, what are women's duties? 1955 01:56:33.199 --> 01:56:36.359 Two men? And obviously and obviously the application not. 1956 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:39.560 Just not just men, but to society at large, and 1957 01:56:40.279 --> 01:56:43.600 her her immediate response was and then well, when he 1958 01:56:43.720 --> 01:56:46.840 asked her specifically, the first thing she said was I'm 1959 01:56:46.880 --> 01:56:49.840 a successfully independent woman. And then she she said that 1960 01:56:50.119 --> 01:56:53.800 her husband's a fucking baseball manager or some it's just 1961 01:56:53.880 --> 01:56:58.199 some some brain dead it's hard at like covert feminist takes. 1962 01:56:58.720 --> 01:57:00.760 Let me pull it up. We'll say, hello, how long 1963 01:57:00.840 --> 01:57:01.159 is yeah? 1964 01:57:01.640 --> 01:57:02.600 As short as like? 1965 01:57:03.199 --> 01:57:05.199 If you just find the clip where it's him asking 1966 01:57:05.319 --> 01:57:08.000 her and then her giving her immediate response, it should 1967 01:57:08.039 --> 01:57:10.720 be less than a minute and a half, so you 1968 01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:12.079 will you'll probably be able to. 1969 01:57:12.039 --> 01:57:12.920 Pull it up real quickly. 1970 01:57:16.399 --> 01:57:18.479 All right, yeah, I'm looking here. Let's see. Appreciate that 1971 01:57:21.800 --> 01:57:27.680 I don't want a thirty minute explanation of it. Let's 1972 01:57:27.680 --> 01:57:30.640 see if this is it. Everyone knows you need a 1973 01:57:30.720 --> 01:57:33.119 lawyer after a car accident injury. But what if I 1974 01:57:33.279 --> 01:57:34.640 told you there's a better way. 1975 01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:37.159 One look at. 1976 01:57:37.640 --> 01:57:41.920 The conservative check We all she is in some closet. 1977 01:57:42.640 --> 01:57:44.680 I don't want his commentary. I just want the clip. 1978 01:57:45.520 --> 01:57:45.840 I don't know. 1979 01:57:45.880 --> 01:57:48.239 Maybe we'll try to find it tomorrow. Some my mind 1980 01:57:48.279 --> 01:57:53.640 as much. JB three two dollars. Have you been to Greece? No, 1981 01:57:53.880 --> 01:57:58.640 I've only been to Italy, Rome, a lot of places 1982 01:57:58.680 --> 01:58:09.439 in Italy and London. Actually was gonna go degrees and 1983 01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:17.479 then koof happened, so that never happened. Snapping like UFA 1984 01:58:17.720 --> 01:58:24.760 boy two one who is a genius, best thinker in Orthodoxy. 1985 01:58:27.399 --> 01:58:29.399 I mean we've got quite a few, you know, really 1986 01:58:29.399 --> 01:58:35.520 accomplished scholars, doctor Branson, doctor Bradshaw, Uh, doctor Tikon Pino. 1987 01:58:38.279 --> 01:58:43.560 I'm sure there's many more, doctor Vinnie Ahman Larshay. I 1988 01:58:43.600 --> 01:58:50.560 mean there's there's a bunch ed faith before fortune five dollars. 1989 01:58:50.640 --> 01:58:52.319 I love what you do, brother, pull me out of 1990 01:58:52.359 --> 01:58:55.119 the mid with madness. I hope you're willing to form 1991 01:58:55.159 --> 01:58:58.840 an opinion on the religious freedom socck I brought up. Uh, 1992 01:59:01.039 --> 01:59:03.479 you mean the Church, you're the founding Fathers. I mean, 1993 01:59:03.560 --> 01:59:06.039 I just I don't. I mean, I don't know what 1994 01:59:06.119 --> 01:59:10.560 to say, Like, I don't know if there is a 1995 01:59:10.680 --> 01:59:14.119 real consistent position. Again, I've said many times I think 1996 01:59:14.159 --> 01:59:22.159 that the Founding Fathers are a mix of Enlightenment, Deism, Masonry, Episcopalianism, Catholicism. 1997 01:59:22.279 --> 01:59:25.159 Even with the Carrol family, I mean there's a lot 1998 01:59:25.199 --> 01:59:34.159 of things going in Baptists, so it's somewhat Christian. But anyway, 1999 01:59:34.560 --> 01:59:38.199 that's about it. Everybody have a good night, and I 2000 01:59:38.239 --> 01:59:40.359 got to work on the new Sam Heights, So look 2001 01:59:40.399 --> 01:59:45.680 forward to uh Sam Hides episode five and six. That's 2002 01:59:45.720 --> 01:59:50.000 gonna be fun, or wait, episode four and five, forget 2003 01:59:50.039 --> 01:59:52.439 which one we're on. Really relentless twenty bucks