WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.759 Aaron, what's happening? Man? 2 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:07.000 We don't seem like the kind of guys who really 3 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:09.400 like to read a lot, so this is this is 4 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:10.080 getting weird. 5 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:13.119 Yeah, I don't read so good, them words as hard. 6 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.519 So you had the idea for doing this one, I 7 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:22.480 will read it. But so tell me why did you 8 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:27.800 want to do chapter three of James Burnham's The Managerial Revolution? 9 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.759 So I knew that we wouldn't have enough time or 10 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.560 willpower to do the entire thing. I I would, I 11 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:39.840 would make that my life's work and my my magnum opus. 12 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:45.479 But chapter three really stuck with me, mostly because of 13 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.920 my my background and my my near group and in group, 14 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.640 you know, in the in the libertarian sphere, and uh, 15 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.479 I I never really considered the fact that you know, 16 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.039 I I've always had that binary brain of it's it's 17 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:04.760 either capitalism or socialism. And you know, I've I've kind 18 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.799 of adopted the uh, the way I thought that socialism 19 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.879 is encroaching, and you know, it's not, it's not anywhere 20 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:16.079 near what like somebody like Lenin would would view as socialism. 21 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:22.760 But yeah, I mean, and particularly for this book, when 22 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.680 when when we were reading uh uh State and Revolution, 23 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:31.840 m hm. The sheer amount of things that Lenin called 24 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.079 like just called it. Uh. I mean throughout that reading, 25 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.920 it was like he was spot on with a lot 26 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:42.840 of things. And uh, throughout my incomplete reading of this, 27 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.879 I'm still in the middle of it. Uh. Every page 28 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:50.159 has something that I can immediately point to, a tangible 29 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:52.959 aspect of something I deal with every day and be like, yeah, 30 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:54.400 Burnham called it. 31 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.200 Yeah. I read it this afternoon because it's only it's 32 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.000 only a night nine pages, seven, eight or nine pages, 33 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:06.680 and yeah, I was stopping constantly because I was just like, 34 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:09.840 oh man, I have to ponder that. I really have 35 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.960 to ponder that. So all right, well, I mean we 36 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:16.960 usually do like twenty five or thirty pages and it 37 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:21.400 goes so stop anytime I'll start reading it, okay, absolutely, 38 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.680 all right. Chapter three, The Theory of the Permanence of 39 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:33.919 Capitalism by former Trotskyite James Burnham. During the past century, dozens, 40 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:37.240 perhaps even hundreds, of theories of history have been elaborated. 41 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:41.520 These differ endlessly among themselves in the words they use, 42 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:45.520 the causal explanations they offer for the historical process, the 43 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.280 alleged laws of history which they seem to discover, But 44 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.560 most of these differences are irrelevant to the central problem 45 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.000 with which this book is concerned. That problem is to discover, 46 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.319 if possible, what type, if indeed it is to be 47 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:05.039 a different type of social organization is on the immediate 48 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:09.280 historical horizon. I will pause to say that this book 49 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:14.439 was released in nineteen forty one, so he's positing what's 50 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:17.719 going to happen, and he probably start he probably wrote 51 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:18.879 this in nineteen forty. 52 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.080 And he's kind of setting you up, especially you know, 53 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:27.680 us US libertarians or former libertarians of what I'd consider 54 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:31.080 myself to be. So when you're reading this, whatever definition 55 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:34.400 of capitalism he's using, he knows it's not real capitalism, bro, 56 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:39.919 and he doesn't care. It's capitalism and its totality, whatever 57 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.280 your definition is, that's what he's talking. 58 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.759 About with reference to this specific problem. All of the theories, 59 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.199 with the exception of those few which approximate to the 60 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:53.000 theory of the managerial revolution, boil down to two and 61 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.800 only two. The first of these. The first of these 62 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:01.639 predicts that capitalism will continue for an indefinite but long time, 63 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.120 if not forever. That is, that the major institutions of 64 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.680 capitalist society, or at least most of them will not 65 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:15.280 be radically changed. The second predicts that capitalist society will 66 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:21.279 be replaced by socialist society. The theory of the managerial revolution 67 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.800 predicts that capitalist society will be replaced by managerial society, 68 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.720 the nature of which we'll be explained later. That in fact, 69 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:37.519 the transition from capitalists to managerial society is already well underway. 70 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.120 It is clear that although all three of these theories 71 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:43.839 might be false, only one of them can be true. 72 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.560 The answer that each of them gives to the question 73 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.800 of what will happen what will actually happen in the future, 74 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:55.240 plainly denies the answers given by the other two. If 75 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:59.279 then the theory of the managerial revolution is true, it 76 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.040 must be POSSI will to present consideration sufficient to justify 77 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:09.079 us in regard to in regard the other two theories as. 78 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:12.360 False, they're all mutually exclusive. 79 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:18.560 Right. Such demonstration would by itself make the theory of 80 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.160 the managerial revolution very probable, since apart from these three 81 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:30.519 there are at present no other serious theoretical contenders. I propose, therefore, 82 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.639 in this in the following chapter, to review briefly the 83 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:37.680 evidence for rejecting the theory of the permanence of capitalism 84 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:44.519 and the theory of the socialist revolution, and we're off. 85 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.199 Oddly enough, the belief that the capitalists society will continue 86 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.920 is seldom put in theoretical form. It is rather left 87 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:57.560 implicit in what people say and do, and in the 88 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:03.759 writings and sayings of most historians, sociologists, and politicians. Nevertheless, 89 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.199 there is little doubt that the majority of people in 90 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.199 the United States hold this belief, though it has been 91 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:15.399 somewhat shaken in recent years. When examined, this belief is 92 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.680 seen to be based not on any evidence in its favor, 93 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:23.560 but primarily on two assumptions. Both of these assumptions are 94 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:30.439 flatly and entirely false. Here we go. The first is 95 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.319 the assumption that society has always been capitalists in structure, 96 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:39.800 and therefore presumably always will be. In actual fact, society 97 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:42.839 has been capitalists from a minute fragment of the total 98 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:47.160 of total human history. Any exact date shows in its 99 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:48.879 the beginning of the good. 100 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:55.839 How many times have you seen people cite instances of 101 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:02.439 I guess, right wing anarchism anarcho capitalism throughout history. 102 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.720 I mean it always seems forced. 103 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:08.839 But yeah, extremely like real. 104 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:16.160 Medieval Iceland, medieval Scotland. Yeah, I mean Ireland. I'm sorry. 105 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:19.240 Yeah, yeah, those are the two two ones that come 106 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:24.360 to mind as well, and or like uh yeah, so 107 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.959 I guess what I'm getting at is it's always forced. Uh, 108 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:34.920 capitalism has only existed since maybe the late eighteenth century. 109 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.560 I mean some people may say the Hanseatic League, which 110 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.759 goes back further, but I mean on any grand scale 111 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.759 in the West. Yeah. 112 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:49.800 Yeah, if if you if you compare it to what's 113 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.959 what's that, uh, mercantilism. Yeah, uh, that's it's very hard 114 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:57.639 when you start differentiating between capitalism and mercantilism. It's always 115 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.879 kind of a uh, there's there's shape of each when 116 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:05.720 you get into that sixteenth seventeenth century and before. 117 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:12.040 All right, moving on any exact date chosen as the 118 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.800 beginning of capitalism would be arbitrary. But the start of 119 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:20.800 capitalist social organization on any wide scale can scarcely be 120 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:25.279 put earlier than the fourteenth century AD, and capitalist domination 121 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:31.199 must be placed much later than that. The second assumption 122 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.639 is that capitalism has some necessary kind of correlation with 123 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:43.919 human nature. That's man, yep, yeah, I've been I was 124 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:49.519 reading John C. Calhoun's Disquisition on government got it down 125 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:56.679 here somewhere, and his argument for why government is necessary 126 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.879 is the exact same intro is the exact same argument 127 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:06.960 that anarchists or lays fair economists make for why lays 128 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.039 fair would work. Self interest yep. 129 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.720 Self ownership, private property or private property is an extension 130 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.480 of self ownership. And that's kind of an appeal to 131 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:19.440 human nature that I hear a lot. 132 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.360 All right. So the second assumption is that capitalism has 133 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.399 some necessary kind of correlation with human nature. This, as 134 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.639 a matter of fact, is the same assumption as the first, 135 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:36.440 but expressed differently. To see that it is false, it 136 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:39.360 is not required to be sure just what human nature 137 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.960 may be. It is enough to observe that human nature 138 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:45.919 has been able to adapt itself to dozens of types 139 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.519 of society, many of which have been studied by anthropologists 140 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:52.720 and historians, and a number of which have lasted far 141 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:57.240 longer than capitalism. 142 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.840 I don't think that's unreasonable to kind of in part 143 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:05.720 into your belief system of history. 144 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:12.639 Yeah. Yeah. With these assumptions dropped, the positive case for 145 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:16.200 the view that capitalism will continue doesn't amount to much. 146 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:21.720 In fact, has hardly even been stated coherently by anyone 147 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.440 But apart from this lack of positive defense, we can, 148 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.000 I think, lists certain sets of facts which give all 149 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:33.240 the grounds that a reasonable man should need for believing 150 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.399 that capitalism is not going to continue, that it will 151 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.279 disappear in a couple of decades at most, and perhaps 152 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.519 in a couple of years, which is as exact as 153 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:48.080 one should pretend to be in these matters. These facts 154 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.879 do not demonstrate this in any way that mathematical or 155 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.639 logical theorem is demonstrated. No belief about future events can 156 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:00.480 be demonstrated. They simply make the belief more probable that 157 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.519 any alternative belief, which is as much as can be 158 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.879 can be done. This is in parenthesis in what follows, 159 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:10.759 for reasons which will become evident later, I do not 160 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:19.120 include references to Germany, Italy or Russia. Okay, The first 161 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:23.120 and perhaps crucial evidence for the view that capitalism is 162 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.200 not going to continue much longer is the continuous, continuous 163 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:31.320 presence within the capitalist nations of mass unemployment and the 164 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.799 failure of all means tried for getting rid of mass unemployment. 165 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.320 The unemployed, it is especially significant to note, include large 166 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.559 percentages of the youth just entering working age. 167 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:47.039 Le me pause. You're right, there is that applicable to today. 168 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:53.080 It's applicable to every moment of every conscious moment of 169 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.240 my life. 170 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.159 Yeah, yep. Mass unemployment now not in the traditional sense 171 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:00.960 that people are looking for work and they just can't 172 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:04.600 find jobs because there's no there's no productive positions for 173 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:08.080 them to fill. But if you look at today, this 174 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:15.960 call for universal basic income, universal health care, this this 175 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:21.120 emphasis on work life balance, I think that's in response 176 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:27.120 to not so much people being unemployed through no through 177 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:31.000 no fault of their own, but this general drive towards uh, 178 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:36.440 not having to work for your basic necessities is stemmed 179 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.200 from the fact that there's just not a whole lot 180 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.080 of people working and and at the same time, there's 181 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:43.879 not a whole lot of people looking for work. 182 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:50.360 Yeah, I mean I would. Yeah, I don't know if 183 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.039 I have anything to add to that. Yeah, okay, cool, 184 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:57.080 I'm gonna move on. Continuous mass unemployment is not new 185 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:01.039 in history. It is in fact that a given type 186 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.960 of social organization is just about finished. It was found 187 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:08.080 among the poorer citizens during the last years of Athens, 188 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.000 among the urban proletariat as they were called in the 189 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.039 Roman Empire, and very notably at the end of the 190 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:18.879 Middle Ages, among the dispossessed serfs and villains who had 191 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.840 been thrown off the land in order to make way 192 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.639 for capitalists use of the land. I pronounced that, right, villains. 193 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.480 I recognize that from Marx I think, so, yeah, yeah, 194 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.799 what is a villain? Hold on? I'm trying to remember now. 195 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:44.000 I looked it up once. I read feudal tenant entirely 196 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:50.679 subject to a lord, so basically close enough to a serf. 197 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.720 Mass unemployment means that the given type of social organization 198 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.919 has broken down, that it cannot any longer provide its 199 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.360 members with socially useful functions, even according to its own 200 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:06.679 ideas of what is socially useful. Hey, uncle, Ted, how 201 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:13.159 are you doing? It cannot support these masses for any 202 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.240 length of time and idleness, for its resources are not 203 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.279 sufficient the unemployed. 204 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.679 That's where the Marxists would disagree. They would say, no, no, 205 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.840 we have the resources. They're just not being diverted to it. 206 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.480 You know, They're being diverted to socially unnecessary production. 207 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:38.480 Right. The unemployed, however, on the fringe of society on 208 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.720 the one hand, like a terrible weight dragging it down 209 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:43.720 and believing it to death. On the other, a constant, 210 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:49.799 irritant and reservoir of forces directed against the society that 211 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:55.320 is brutal. Man experience has already shown that there is 212 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.039 not the slightest prospect of ridding capitalism of mass unemployment. 213 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:06.200 This is nineteen forty one, so eighty years ago, eighty one. 214 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.360 This is indeed becoming widely admitted among the defenders of 215 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.799 capitalism as well as many spokesmen of the New Deal. 216 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.360 Even total war, the most drastic, conceivable solution, could not 217 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.720 end mass unemployment in England and France, nor will it 218 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.320 do so in this country. Every solution that has any 219 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:31.399 possibility of succeeding leads directly or indirectly outside the framework 220 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:32.600 of capitalism. 221 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:39.679 That that right there, like just really hit home. When 222 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:45.200 you have an ideology and you're trying to apply an 223 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:51.000 ideological solution to reality, you're and let's say it's let's 224 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:55.279 say you're an anarchic capitalist, for instance, You're trying to 225 00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:00.559 game out ways to apply solutions. The law of unintended 226 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.159 consequences will take effect and there's really nothing in the 227 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:09.679 anarcho capitalist toolbox that can fix mass unemployment. 228 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:13.600 Yeah, well, I mean, they will say that, you know, 229 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.639 the freer of the market, the more jobs will be created, 230 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:20.639 and you will have one unemployment. I mean, you'll have 231 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:26.799 zero percent unemployment. Sorry, yeah, yeah, and the only people 232 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.399 who at that point, the only people who will work, 233 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.759 who won't work, or people who can't work. Yeah, I 234 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.080 mean I think that's pine in the sky. 235 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:38.679 But yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. The the solutions 236 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:45.879 applied to reality, if you take it, if you're in 237 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:52.080 a capitalist framework, all of your solutions that are within 238 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:58.799 that capitalist framework, there there's no uh, there's no solving 239 00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.960 it within it. 240 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.599 Well, I think some may argue that because you're in 241 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:12.200 an anarcho capitalist society and there are no entitlements, no welfare, 242 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:17.160 no nothing like that, that people will be compelled to work, 243 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.000 that they'll be forced to work. 244 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:24.759 Yeah, yeah, that's true. I've always kind of envisioned uh 245 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:28.039 not not not trying to straw man, but an anarcho 246 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:33.000 capitalist society is like that ten thousand leak consheines more 247 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.720 more of a corporate structure where you know, the cons 248 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.759 Herman Hopp covenant communities. If you take the idea of 249 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.640 a covenant community, will there be unemployment in a covenant community. 250 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:52.119 And depends on it depends on the constitution of the 251 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:53.839 covenant community exactly. 252 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.119 Yep, yeah, So I mean either way, it's it's it's 253 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.559 a nice I love it. That's where I come from, 254 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.319 and I would love to see that implemented. But I 255 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:11.039 guess what constitutes mass unemployment would depend on the covenant community. 256 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:16.039 Two. Capitalism has always been characterized by recurring economic crises, 257 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.920 by periods of boom followed by periods of depression. Until 258 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:24.240 a dozen years ago, however, the curve of total production 259 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.720 always went higher in one major boom period than in 260 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.119 the boom proceding. It did so not only in terms 261 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.880 of the actual quality of goods produced, but in the 262 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:38.200 relative quantity of the volume of goods compared to the 263 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:45.640 increased population and plant capacity. Thus, in spite of the crises, 264 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:50.319 there was a general overall increase in capitalist production, which 265 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.279 was simply the measure of the ability of capitalist social 266 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:59.240 organization to handle its own resources. Since the World Crisis 267 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.839 of nineteen twenty seven through twenty nine, this overall curve 268 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.559 has reversed. The height of a boom period relative to 269 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:11.279 population and potential capacity is lower than that of the 270 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:16.440 preceding boom the new direction of the curve is, in 271 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.160 its turn, simply the expression of the fact that capitalism 272 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.799 can no longer handle its own resources. 273 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.160 And again, uh, for all the mesessians listening, that boom 274 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.440 and bus cycle. We know it's due to the expansion 275 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:34.960 of credit. But you know Burnham, Burnham incorporates central banking 276 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.960 into his view of capitalism. 277 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:41.480 Well, he's also living in the real world. He's talking 278 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:46.599 about what's happening now. And yeah, you can already hear 279 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.839 people screaming, well, that's not real capitalism. 280 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:53.559 Yeah, and that boom and bus cycle. I mean again, 281 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.519 like I love, I love an cap theory, but there's 282 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:05.039 really nothing inherently, there's nothing to inoculate, say, a covenant 283 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.000 community with a bank with a currency from a boom 284 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.720 and bus cycle, because credit credit in and of itself 285 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.039 isn't isn't tied to any type of ideology. 286 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:21.519 Well, what I would like to say here is that 287 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:27.839 it looks like Burnham is making like he did say 288 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.759 he did make an immediate kind of prediction. The first 289 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.799 sentence of part three here is the volume of public 290 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.720 and private debt has reached a point where it cannot 291 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.799 be managed much longer. Okay, so some people would say, Okay, 292 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.279 how are we still how are we still going? Well? 293 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.720 I mean maybe they adjusted, they bring in a Paul 294 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.279 Volker or someone like that to get it through. But 295 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:58.559 what I want to say more about these timeframes is 296 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:05.640 it's hard to predict when you know something is going bad. 297 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.359 When you know something is going wrong, there could be 298 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.440 somebody out there who has already figured out how to 299 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:17.160 let how to keep that wrong going. For a long time, 300 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.160 there were a lot of people talking about the fall 301 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.640 of the Roman Empire in the first and second century. 302 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.920 It took a couple more centuries. It does not discount 303 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.200 the arguments that they were making, no, not at all. 304 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.640 And applying it to now. If you view the United 305 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:40.519 States as the beacon of capitalism and Enlightenment values and 306 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.920 all that, you can you can see its evolution or 307 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.079 de evolution from its from its inception to right now. 308 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:57.559 And you know, capitalism even, you know, even when deregulation 309 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:03.680 and all these good libertarian policies were applied sparingly throughout history, 310 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.759 it wasn't enough to manage the decline. 311 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:10.839 I'm going to read the first sentence again and keep going. 312 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.079 The volume of public and private debt had reached a 313 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.200 point where it cannot be managed much longer. The debt, 314 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.200 like the unemployed, sucks away the diminishing bloodstream of capitalism, 315 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:28.799 and it cannot be shaken off. Bankruptcies, which formerly readjusted 316 00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:32.160 the debt position of capitalism, hardly make a debt in it. 317 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.440 The scale of bankruptcy or inflation, which could reduce the 318 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.200 debt to manageable size, would, at the same time, as 319 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:46.160 all economists recognize, utterly dislocate all capitalist institutions. 320 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.720 Yeah, and you know, going back to HAPA, any institution, 321 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.759 whether it's a nation state or a company or covenant community, 322 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:04.240 any institution is own to just that high time preference culture, 323 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.680 of which leads to that racking up of unmanageable debt, 324 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:13.799 And that kind of segues nicely into I'm why I'm 325 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:15.319 right wing. 326 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.920 All right. The maintenance of the capitalist market depended on 327 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:26.640 at least comparatively free monetary exchange transactions. The area of these, 328 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.160 especially on a words a world scale, is diminishing towards 329 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.880 a vanishing point. This is well indicated by the useless 330 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.920 gold hoard at Fort Knox and the barter methods of Russia, 331 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:43.319 Germany and Italy. I believe if you were at this 332 00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.440 in forty or forty one, it was released to forty one, 333 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.799 we get breton Woods in five years, right, I think 334 00:23:50.839 --> 00:24:02.640 breton Woods is forty six. Oh done. 335 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:07.240 Yeah, that's the mortal wound to the whatever whatever gold 336 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:08.480 standard we had left. 337 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.160 Oh yeah, it was a forty four summit. So yeah, 338 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.000 the uh try to explain Breton Woods. The best I 339 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.200 can is basically what it meant was that. Okay, So 340 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:27.160 the delegates agreed that the gold standard would create a 341 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.000 fixed currency exchange exchange rate, so there'd be no fluction. 342 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:37.480 There'd be no fluctuation, no market. The agreement also facilitated 343 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.880 the creation of immensely important structures in the financial world, 344 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:46.400 the IMF, the International Bank for Reconstruction in the International 345 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:50.319 Bank for Reconstruction and Development, which is known today as 346 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:55.839 the World Bank. So that's your Breton Woods. And yeah, 347 00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.400 you're you're right, there's no what did you. 348 00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:03.640 Say, No more market no more yeah, no more market 349 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.599 forces affecting the exchange rate. 350 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.640 Yep, all right. Four the maintenance of the capitalist market 351 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.279 depended on, at least comparatively I already read that one. 352 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.680 Since shortly this is part five. Since shortly after the 353 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.880 First World War that there has been in all major 354 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:29.640 capitalist nations a permanent agricultural depression. Agriculture is obviously an 355 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.039 indispensable part of the total economy, and the breakdown in 356 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.640 this essential sector is another mark of the incurable disease 357 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:42.079 afflicting capitalism. No remedies and how and how many they 358 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.960 are that have been tried produce any sign of cure. 359 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.039 The farming populations sink in debt and poverty, and not 360 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.640 enough food is produced and distributed while agriculture is kept 361 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.920 barely going through huge state subsidies. 362 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.000 I don't know if today we have a problem of 363 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.200 not enough food being produced, but I know that I 364 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.599 just don't know a whole lot about the agricultural industry 365 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.920 right now, but I know one thing I do know 366 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.640 is that it is propped up entirely by state subsidies. 367 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:21.640 Yeah. Now, somebody is screaming right now though, that that 368 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:26.200 FDR had them destroy food in the thirties so that 369 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:31.119 he could keep prices high to affect supply and demand. 370 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:35.359 But that's what you have under capitalism. 371 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:42.559 Yeah, that is a solution well within the bounds of capitalism. 372 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:44.960 You know, a private entity can do that just as 373 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.160 well as a public one. 374 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:51.400 Dan, no man, only the state's evil. Only the state's evil, Dude. 375 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.480 Capitalism is no longer able to find uses for the 376 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:59.480 available investment funds, which waste in idleness in the account 377 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.079 books of the banks. The mass unemployment of private money 378 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:07.279 is scarcely less indicative of the death of capitalism than 379 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:13.599 the mass unemployment of human beings. Damn, this mass unemployment 380 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.799 of private money, that's a really good phrase. 381 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.319 Yeah, and it strikes a uh, I know, it strikes 382 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:22.319 at my Mesessian sensibilities. 383 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.480 Both show the inability of the capitalist institutions any longer 384 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:31.480 to organize human activities. During the past decade, in the 385 00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:36.000 United States, as in other capitalist nations, new capital investment 386 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:41.519 has come almost entirely from the state, not from private funds. 387 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:47.400 Yep. And uh even now, I mean with with the 388 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:54.720 literal trillions of dollars sitting in futures and uh, you know, 389 00:27:54.839 --> 00:28:01.400 investment portfolios and assets and all that, can we honestly 390 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:07.559 say that it's being employed in any sense in a 391 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.720 beneficial way to society. And this is where you get 392 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.680 kind of people varying off and going towards Marxism. 393 00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.079 Seven. The continuance of capitalism was, we saw, dependent upon 394 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.720 a certain relationship between the great powers and the backward 395 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.480 sections and peoples of the earth. One of the most 396 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.880 striking developments of the past fifteen years, which has been 397 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.440 little noticed, is the inability of the great capitalist nations 398 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.359 any longer to manage the exploitation and development of these 399 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.200 backward sections. This is nowhere better illustrated than in the 400 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:46.279 relations between the United States and South America. The United States, 401 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:50.240 in spite of its imperious necessity for the nation's very survival, 402 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.960 has not and cannot devise a scheme for handling the 403 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:59.039 economic phase of a temisphere policy. Though during the past 404 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:02.440 few years, and above and above all during the war 405 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.680 the road has been wide open. Nothing gets done here. Again, 406 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.599 the only workable schemes are compelled to leave the basis 407 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.359 of capitalism. 408 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:18.160 Which is war and color revolutions, Yeah, publics and all that. 409 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.960 This is why if you ask somebody, you know, how 410 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:23.920 did the United States get out of the Great Depression, 411 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:28.519 they've been taught to say, well, world War two, you know, 412 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:34.119 Because I mean, honestly, if war is the greatest thing 413 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:36.599 for the economy, we should just be blowing up our 414 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:42.240 own buildings and bridges just constantly Oh yeah, infrastructure, man 415 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.920 Capitalism is no longer able to use its own technological possibilities. 416 00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.119 One side of this is shown by such facts as 417 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.519 the inability of the United States to carry out a 418 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.240 housing program when the houses are needed and wanted and 419 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.599 the technical means to produce them in abundance or on hand. 420 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.599 This is the case with almost all goods. But an 421 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.119 equally symptomatic side is seen in the inability to make 422 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.839 use of many inventions and new technical methods. Hundreds of these, 423 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.240 though they could reduce immeasurably the number of man hours 424 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.559 needed to turn out goods and increase greatly the convenience 425 00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.720 of life, nonetheless sit on the shelf. In many entire 426 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.960 economic sectors, such as agriculture, building, coal mining. The technical 427 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:35.680 methods today available make the usual present methods seem stone age, 428 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.240 and nearly every economic field is to some degree affected. 429 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:47.000 Using the inventions and methods available available, would, it is 430 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:54.319 correctly understood, smash up the capitalist structure. Technological unemployment is 431 00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:58.319 present in recent capitalism, but it is hardly anything compared 432 00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:02.519 to what technological unemployed would be if capitalism made use 433 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:04.559 of its available technology. 434 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:10.559 He's talking about achieving post scarcity through automation and all that, 435 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.920 and uh, you know, we we have that today. We 436 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.920 have the means to automate almost every facet of the 437 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.720 production process in any industry. And uh, you know, this 438 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.599 is where we get into the managerial state. 439 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.400 Yeah, these facts also show that capitalism and its rulers 440 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.799 can no longer use their own resources. And the point 441 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:40.359 is that if they won't, someone else will nine As 442 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:46.759 symptomatic and decisive as these economic and technical developments, It 443 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.400 as symptom hold on, here we go. As symptomatic and 444 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.680 decisive as these economic and technological developments is the fact 445 00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:01.079 that the ideologies of capitalism, the bourgeois ideologies, have become impotent. 446 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.119 Ideologies we have seen, are the cement that binds together 447 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.799 the social fabric. When the cement loosens, the fabric is 448 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:13.519 about to disintegrate. And no one who has watched the 449 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.519 world during the past twenty years can doubt the ever 450 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:23.160 increasing importance of the bourgeois ideologies. Yeah, impotence so already. 451 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.559 Humble bragged about this on Twitter. I was hanging out 452 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:32.160 with Jarvin, who basically has gotten people to read Burnham, 453 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.559 and I asked him about this quote, because this is 454 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:39.240 a quote that a lot of people use to say 455 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:44.519 that Burnham was not against ideologies. He says, ideologies we 456 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.680 have seen are the cement that binds together the social fabric. 457 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.559 So what I asked Jarvin was, are ideologies for the 458 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:59.240 plebs and the people who are in power, who desire power, 459 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:10.039 who understand power, understand that ideology is handcuffs. Yeah, he 460 00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.519 seemed to agree with that. So you seem to agree 461 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:17.720 that the powerful will push ideologies upon people and say 462 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:19.440 this is what's going to hold you, this is what 463 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.319 holds us together while they are while they are I 464 00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.119 have no ideology whatsoever, even if they're telling you they 465 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.799 have the same ideology as you and they're just doing 466 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.400 as they wish with the power that's been granted them. 467 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:41.559 Yeah, particularly bourgeois ideologies like monarchism or or liberalism or 468 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.960 you know, any of those those those I'm not saying 469 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:49.799 that to you know, as a as being mean or anything, 470 00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:54.400 but uh, you know, if if your middle class abides 471 00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:58.720 but by a general ideology, like say liberalism in the 472 00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.480 United States, and then they have you know, different disagreements 473 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:07.319 and factions scattered throughout, you could still have a cohesive society. 474 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.480 If half your society is communist and the other half 475 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.719 is you know, liberal, then that's when you're going to 476 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.320 see things like Russia, things like Germany, things like Italy, China. 477 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.360 Yep, I'm going to read that again. Ideologies we have 478 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:27.840 seen are the cement that binds together the social fabric. 479 00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:31.400 When the cement loosens, the fabric is about to disintegrate. 480 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:33.880 And no one who has watched the world during the 481 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:37.199 past twenty years can doubt the ever increasing impotence of 482 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:43.079 the bourgeois ideologies. On the one hand, the scientific pretensions 483 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:48.039 of these ideologies have been exploded. History, sociology, and anthropology 484 00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.960 are not yet much as sciences, but they are enough 485 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.559 to show every serious person that the concepts of the 486 00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:57.360 bourgeois ideologies are not written in the stars, or not 487 00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:02.119 universal laws of nature, but aret best, just temporary expressions 488 00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:05.400 of the interests and ideals of a particular class of 489 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.199 men at a particular historical time. 490 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.199 That was a punch and look out to me too. Yep, 491 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:16.960 we're all just d just in the wind man. 492 00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:21.920 It does not matter how non scientific or anti scientific 493 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.199 and ideology may be. It can do its work so 494 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.480 long as it possesses the power to move great masses 495 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:33.440 of men to action. This this the bourgeois ideologies once 496 00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:36.800 could do, as the great revolutions and the imperial and 497 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:40.280 economic conquest prove, And this they can no longer do. 498 00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:45.239 That's so spot on, It's ridiculous. 499 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:52.840 Are you going to die for libertarianism? You are you ready, comrade? 500 00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:57.119 I'm ready to die to end these lockdowns. When the 501 00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:00.239 bourgeois ideologies were challenged in the sar and this day 502 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.800 and land by the ideology of Nazism, it was Nazism 503 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.119 that won the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of the people. 504 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.920 All possible discounts for the effects of Nazi terrorism must 505 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:17.480 not delude us into misreading this brute fact. Then that's 506 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:18.719 a paragraph right there. 507 00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:20.440 Oh yeah, jesz. 508 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.119 Only the hopelessly naive can imagine that France fell so 509 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.159 swiftly because of the mere mechanical strength of the Nazi 510 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:31.599 war machine. That might have been sufficient in a longer run, 511 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.280 but not to destroy a great nation with a colossal 512 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:38.480 military establishment in a few weeks. France collapsed so swiftly 513 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:41.519 because its people had no heart for the war, as 514 00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.239 every observer had remarked even through the censorship from the 515 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.559 beginning of the war, and they had no heart for 516 00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:51.559 the war because the bourgeois ideologies by which they were 517 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.800 appealed to no longer had power to move their hearts. 518 00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.559 Men are prepared to be heroes for very foolish and 519 00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:03.519 unworthy ideals, but they must at least believe in those ideals. Man, Yeah, 520 00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:05.039 he's just throwing haymakers. 521 00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.440 No, I was. I was. It's kind of a like 522 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.920 a you know, a blue collar trope that like the 523 00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:14.920 French are pussies and cowards and all that. But you know, 524 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.880 when I read that paragraph, I was like, you know what, 525 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.239 He's absolutely right, there was. They're no different than anybody else. 526 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.239 They just weren't moved. They didn't have they didn't have 527 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:27.840 leaders worth following, they didn't have beliefs that resonated with them. 528 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.639 And uh, now that's why we're having a retention crisis 529 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:32.800 right now in our military. 530 00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:38.239 Yeah. Yeah, say the French were pussies in seventeen eighty nine. Well, 531 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:43.760 nowhere is the impotence of bourgeois ideology is more apparent 532 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.920 than among the youth, and the coming world, after all, 533 00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.039 will be the youth's world. The abject failure of voluntary 534 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.440 military enlistment in Britain. In this country tells its own 535 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.360 story to all who wished to listen. It is underlined 536 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:02.599 in reverse by the hundred of Distinguished Adult Voices, which 537 00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:06.719 during nineteen forty began reproaching the American youth for indifference, 538 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:12.400 unwillingness to sacrifice, lack of ideals. How right these reproaches 539 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:20.679 are and how little effect they have? Man, do you 540 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:23.760 do you see how inconsistent you're thinking? 541 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:24.000 Is? 542 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.880 Yeah, come on, man, it's like, yeah, it's like telling 543 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.239 a leftist that they're inconsistent. 544 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.280 I just think when I read that, I was like, 545 00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:36.679 I just just wait a few months, when you know, 546 00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:40.800 Pearl Harbor happens, then I like, I honestly don't know 547 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.639 if we would have even needed a draft. Yeah, but 548 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.719 that's not so much them being motivated by any type 549 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:54.679 of patriotism or you know, love of liberalism and democracy 550 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:56.960 and all that. That's it was a revenge thing. 551 00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:01.400 Yeah, yeah, it has nothing to do with ideologies or 552 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:05.280 that's what they've been able to manufacture. With the terror wars. 553 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.719 They saw how effective Pearl Harbor was, and uh, you know, 554 00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.400 depending on depending on where where you sit on that, 555 00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:18.000 they created more or they you know, literally created more. 556 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:21.840 Yeah, I mean, if you can't sell love of country 557 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.400 or anything anymore, but then let's sell that. You know, 558 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:29.440 the Commis are encroaching Korea and Vietnam, the Commis are croaching, 559 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:36.599 encroaching Grenada, the radical Islamic terrorism, Iraq War one one 560 00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:40.519 and a half two, Great Afghanistan nine to eleven. Wherever 561 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:45.679 you stand that nine to eleven. In truth, the bourgeoisie 562 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.079 itself has in large measure lost confidence in its own ideologies. 563 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:53.360 The words begin to have a hollow sound in the 564 00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:58.960 most sympathetic capitalist ears. This too, is unmistakably revealed in 565 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.679 the policy anditude of England's rulers during the past years. 566 00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:06.039 What was Munich and the whole policy of appeasement but 567 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:10.960 a recognition of bourgeois impotence. Oh Man going after Chamberlain 568 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:15.199 bad Huh. The head of the British Government's traveling to 569 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.440 the feet of the Austrian house painter was the fitting 570 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:21.760 symbol of the capitalist loss of faith in themselves. Let 571 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:25.639 me read that again. The head of the British Government's 572 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:29.119 traveling to the feet of the Austrian house painter was 573 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:33.079 the fitting symbol of the capitalists loss of faith in themselves. 574 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:36.280 The Austrian house painter. 575 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:41.760 Wonder who that is. Every authentic report during the autumn 576 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.920 of nineteen thirty nine from Britain told of the discouragement 577 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:48.400 and fear of the leaders in government and business. And 578 00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:51.320 no one who has listened to American leaders off the record, 579 00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:54.599 or who has followed the less public organs of British 580 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.599 of business opinion, will suppose that such attitudes are confined 581 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:04.679 to Britain. All history makes clear that an indispensable quality 582 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.280 of any man or class that wishes to lead to 583 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:13.519 hold power and privilege in society is boundless self confidence. 584 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:18.960 Other sets of facts could easily easily be added to 585 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.519 this list, but these are perhaps the most plainly sympathetic, 586 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:29.199 A symptomatic sorry. Their effect, moreover is cumulative. The attempted 587 00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:35.440 remedies for them experience shows only gravity only aggravate them. Sorry. 588 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.400 They permit no other conclusion than the capitalist organization of 589 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:44.480 society has entered its final years. Let me read that 590 00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:49.639 last sentence of the body of that again. All history 591 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.639 makes clear that an indispensable quality of any man or 592 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:56.000 class that wishes to lead to hold power and privilege 593 00:41:56.039 --> 00:42:02.159 in society is boundless self confidence. It's I mean, can 594 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:04.079 is there any way you can argue with that? 595 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.679 Not at all, not recently. No, And you know, whether 596 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:13.679 you're talking about Trump or you know, the Four Horsemen 597 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.119 or whoever else, I mean boundless self confidence like just 598 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.400 having having the ability to be persuasive to the masses. 599 00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.960 You could be speaking you could be speaking Chinese and 600 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.199 you know they'll they'll follow you. Well. 601 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.440 I mean, it's one of those things that I remember 602 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:41.639 middle school teacher telling me, you know, and we didn't 603 00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:43.400 have the Internet at this time, so it was kind 604 00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.280 of hard to find. But he's like, if you can 605 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:50.400 find a video of Hitler speaking, you won't even have 606 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.480 to know what he's saying. You will be moved. 607 00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:55.639 Yeah. 608 00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:59.760 Absolutely, that's hard for you know, to hear when you're 609 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.639 in middle school and you've already had, you know, a 610 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:06.599 good ten years of indoctrination into the you know that, 611 00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:10.400 oh my god, Hitler. No, No, there's no way, and 612 00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:12.199 then you like listen to him and speak and you're like, 613 00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:13.440 holy crap. 614 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:16.280 And then it becomes the joke like say what you 615 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:19.400 want about Hitler but you know, fantastic orator. 616 00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:23.320 Yeah, say what you want about Ussolini with those trains 617 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:24.000 right on time. 618 00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.599 Yeah, and you know, if you if you kind of 619 00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:37.639 apply that that idea to our sphere or former sphere 620 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:45.639 or whatever, it's something that even even the leadership like 621 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.599 at the top can't can't really make that happen. Like, yeah, 622 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:55.159 the whole boundless self confidence thing. I mean, when you're 623 00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.639 in a leadership position and you're trying to move people 624 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.960 like you can't you can't be self deprecating, you can't 625 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.920 be speaking a language like you know that comes off 626 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.760 to normal people like you're some type of bug man. 627 00:44:11.320 --> 00:44:13.920 You know. That's that's why populism's taking a grip, both 628 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.519 left wing and right wing populism is taking a grip 629 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.960 right now. It's because they have fantastic, relatable, persuasive orators. 630 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:26.519 Yeah, or tweeters or what was the last time he 631 00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:29.960 saw Anthony Sabattini put something out that was like slightly cringe. 632 00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:34.119 I don't remember. People who don't know Anthony Sabattini is 633 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:38.239 a state senator in Florida who would be nice to 634 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:42.400 see on the on the big stage just because he 635 00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:44.239 has no filter whatsoever. 636 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.199 What's uh, what's going on with Matt Gates? 637 00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:53.000 I don't know. They're trying to they try to take 638 00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:56.840 him down with that whole thing and everything. But I 639 00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:03.119 though was mentioning something this weekend about that about Matt Yeah, he. 640 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:08.519 You can tell that it's bullshit because the Republican Party 641 00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.599 as a whole has not at all distanced themselves from him, right, 642 00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:16.320 it's only the people that have like said anything. We're 643 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.360 like the you know, the anti Trump Republicans that didn't 644 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:24.480 like him to begin with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and them too. 645 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.480 But that's that's how I can kind of gauge what's 646 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.599 bullshit or not, because you know, the top leadership of 647 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.440 the party isn't saying anything. They're treating him exactly the 648 00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:37.079 same as they were before, so you could be rest 649 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:38.519 assured that they don't have anything. 650 00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.199 Yeah, this is a hard hitting essay because when you 651 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:49.039 define capitalism properly, because there is no free market lays fair, 652 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.239 and there is not going to be a free market 653 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:55.199 lays fair, at least not in our lifetime, and people 654 00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:57.559 can make, you know, you can make the argument that 655 00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:59.320 when I was reading it, I was thinking, oh, well, 656 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.079 you know, if you're in the black market, it's free 657 00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.199 and everything. It's like, well, it's really not that free. 658 00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.679 I mean, you like literally might have to protect yourself 659 00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:11.880 with with a lot of firepower, protect your business, and 660 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.039 you never see best You never see best Buy running 661 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:21.400 drive bys on brands Mart. So yeah, but capitalism. If 662 00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:23.599 you're going to use the term capitalism now, and you're 663 00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:25.960 going to use it in any other way than something 664 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:34.559 that is pure theory, just use it. It's amazing to 665 00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.400 me that the same people that will say, you know, well, 666 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:41.519 real capitalism hasn't been tried, will argue that capitalism has 667 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:46.719 gotten out gotten a billion Asians out of out of 668 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:51.880 poverty in the last thirty years. Yeah, and that I say, well, 669 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:53.880 that was neoliberalism. 670 00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:56.760 Yeah, And then it becomes like, oh, I don't like that. 671 00:46:56.719 --> 00:47:04.159 Though, because it was neoliberalism, and it really was, I mean, stop, yeah, 672 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:08.920 I mean, neoliberalism is horrible when you look at idea, 673 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:11.840 you know, when you look at it from an ideological perspective. 674 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.639 But they did get a billion people, a billionass out 675 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:18.119 of out of poverty in the last thirty years. 676 00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.519 Yeah. If you view the onset of capitalism as you know, 677 00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:27.519 the old school medieval burgers sezed literally seizing power and 678 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:34.199 solidifying private property rights from the king that that that 679 00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:38.400 that kind of gives you a historical perspective, and eventually 680 00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.360 that system of private property rights, you know, seizing private 681 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:47.719 property rights, seizing free markets. You know that that came 682 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.440 at a cost. And now we're entering an era where 683 00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:55.239 you know, it's it's evolving into something else, whether it's socialism, fascism, 684 00:47:55.480 --> 00:48:01.599 or as Burnham pos, it's a managerial state. Regardless it is, 685 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:07.480 it's fundamentally departed from, you know, the liberal ideal of 686 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:08.679 what capitalism is. 687 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:13.719 Well, what we did find was that managerial, the managerial 688 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:18.559 state is a lot better than what South Korea had before. 689 00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:20.280 Yeah. 690 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:23.719 Yeah, able to drive able to drive a lot of 691 00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:26.239 people out of cap out of poverty. 692 00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:30.800 Yeah, And you know, it's it's another thing, like you know, 693 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.119 I I would rather have a managerial state that you know, 694 00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:40.039 I share values and a culture with than a libertarian 695 00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:44.599 utopia of like blue haired obese trannies that you know. 696 00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:51.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that just reminded me I need to 697 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:53.519 ask just the Jeff Dice, the question all that I 698 00:48:53.519 --> 00:49:02.000 got write this now, do you still believe I just 699 00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.159 think of one of his famoue, one of his famous 700 00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.440 quotes from a few years ago and I want to 701 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.440 see what he has to say now that COVID and 702 00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:16.159 everything is completely insane. But the yeah, I mean Burnham Man, 703 00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:20.400 there's something in every friggin reading. And what's funny is 704 00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:24.719 this is I'm doing this with you and very well, 705 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:27.840 I'm going to release this next is my next episode, 706 00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:33.440 the very next episode. Maybe myself and Buck Buck Johnson 707 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:38.639 reading Samuel Francis's chapter out of this his review of 708 00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:42.760 Suicide of the West by Burnham. This is Sam Francis 709 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.280 Thinkers of Our Times James Burnham, where he basically does 710 00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:51.719 a commentary on every James Burnham book I have. I 711 00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:54.039 went and bought another one of these because I'm tearing 712 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:56.320 this up so bad. I just wanted to have one 713 00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:58.039 because this is right now, this is the book I 714 00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:58.800 can't put down. 715 00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:03.920 Yeah, no, I'm you know, going from Lenin to Burnham, 716 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.039 it you can tell that he was kind of in 717 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.119 that sphere at one point because he has the same 718 00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.679 polemical writing style and uh like it's actually very easy 719 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:15.960 to read. You know, you have to kind of learn 720 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.000 a different language when you're reading like the Orthodox Marxists, 721 00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:23.800 but with Burnham it's it's kind of more you know, 722 00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:27.920 there's a lot less learning curve. No, no learning curve 723 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:32.159 for me really, But yeah, I would highly recommend any 724 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:35.159 any Burnham content. But I'm just happy to read be 725 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:37.159 reading The Managerial Revolution right now. 726 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:41.119 Yeah, after you read, if you can get Lenin down, 727 00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:44.159 you don't have to get it down perfectly, but just understand, 728 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:48.199 you know, have a good grasp of it. Reading Burnham 729 00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:51.840 is a lot easier. He was at he was head of, 730 00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.320 he was head of like a Trotsky like organization or 731 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.360 something like that. I mean, the guy was deep in 732 00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:01.400 it and then just took a did a huge yeah. 733 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:05.320 And then the next chapter it's like on the on 734 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:10.639 the coming transition to socialism or whatever, he goes into 735 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:16.000 the fact that workers as a class are very malleable ideologically. 736 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:19.199 There's no guarantee that they're going to fulfill their Marxist 737 00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.440 destiny of you know, uh, seizing power and bringing about 738 00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:29.159 a communist society. They might seize power, but it it'll 739 00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:32.159 look like, you know, either Nazi Germany or Russia or 740 00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:33.559 you know something else. 741 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:36.960 Well, even Lenin knew that, and that's why Lenin wasn't 742 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:42.039 an internationalist like Trotsky. Yeah. Yeah, it was four and 743 00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:44.920 Stalin picked up on that that too, and then of 744 00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:49.599 course later things got things would awry after you know, 745 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:51.880 certain people got into power and they were like, oh, 746 00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:54.400 we gotta we got to expand this a little bit. 747 00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:57.320 Good luck with that. That's when you were that's when 748 00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:00.119 you realize the world doesn't want this. And when I 749 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.079 say the world, I'm talking about the people. People of 750 00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:04.079 this world do not want this. You know. It was 751 00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:08.360 like when what's his name, I can't remember the American journalists, 752 00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:11.039 he's like the only American who's buried in uh, buried 753 00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:16.199 in the Kremlin or in the tomb there. He John Reid, 754 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:20.079 I think it was when he went to Russia pre 755 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.360 revolution and he was telling Lenin and he's like, the 756 00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:26.840 American workers will will stand with with the Russian workers, 757 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:29.039 and it's like, no, they won't. 758 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:31.719 Yeah, that's smoking crack. 759 00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:34.960 Yeah, well it's not smoking crack. It's like you're he's 760 00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:39.480 literally lying to him, yeah, to get you know, to 761 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:41.960 get him to he was trying to get him to 762 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:48.920 go forth, to push harder in what he was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 763 00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:52.400 Some of those Americans that went over there were way 764 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:56.039 more hardcore than a lot of even Lenin's inner group, 765 00:52:56.199 --> 00:52:58.000 because you know, Lenon had guys in his inner group 766 00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.320 who were like, is this gonna work? Yeah, back to 767 00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:05.480 my farm, everything will be fine. Or we could just 768 00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.639 go back. Let's let's get this war over so we 769 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:15.000 can go back to Germany and Switzerland. You know they 770 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.679 were living the good life there for for a decade 771 00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:18.199 and a half. 772 00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:24.039 Oh yeah, German intelligence agencies were fucking like rock stars, 773 00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:27.840 fucking making it rain. 774 00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:30.920 Anyway, got anything to plug? 775 00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.880 Yeah, you can find me on uh not the latest 776 00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:39.000 episode of Timeline Earth due to a scheduling dispute, but 777 00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:42.800 uh yeah you'll you'll eventually find me on Timeline Earth. 778 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:45.559 And uh, I hope to keep keep doing little tidbits 779 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:48.400 like this. I'm kind of entering a transition phase in 780 00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:52.639 my professional life and uh taking a taking a step 781 00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:56.440 back from content creation, but uh, you know, I'm always 782 00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.679 available for a guest spot, and uh, especially for you. 783 00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.800 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekanana Show. 784 00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:07.400 Has this guy ever been on the show before? It 785 00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:09.440 was just oh Aaron from Timeline Earth. Yeah, I mean 786 00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:09.960 many times. 787 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:13.440 Hey you don't, you're my co host. 788 00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:20.559 It's so awesome. All right, let's get to it. I 789 00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:23.320 asked you on today so that we could talk about 790 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.880 Sam Francis. This is actually the book, the print version 791 00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:35.199 of Sam Francis's. Basically it's a review of every James 792 00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.920 Burnham book. So every book that James Burnham wrote, he 793 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:43.000 has a he does ten to fifteen pages on it 794 00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:47.880 to explain what it is and what are we looking 795 00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:53.400 for today? We're gonna do the Machiavellians nice And I 796 00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.119 know you read it, and also you said that you 797 00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:00.119 that you thought about when you when you started reading 798 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:04.320 this review, which was what's it called, Crisis of Modernity? 799 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:09.199 Yeah, so the Crisis of Adernity Modernity by Augusta del Nocee. 800 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:13.760 He's an Italian philosopher born in nineteen ten died in 801 00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:18.039 seventy six, I think, and he's just another one of 802 00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:22.519 those people that basically called it well before anybody else 803 00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:29.840 was calling it. He identified the pretty much the flow 804 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.920 of history from from liberalism into kind of what we're 805 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:38.719 experiencing right now, which is its logical endpoint, and it 806 00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:43.000 really resonated with me. I've also in preparation for this episode, 807 00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:48.000 I also read a lot of Heidegger and I also 808 00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:51.400 went back into, uh, the managerial Revolution, just to get 809 00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:54.440 me into a Burnham mindset. 810 00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:57.400 Cool, cool, all right, well let's get this up on 811 00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:00.400 the screen and start reading I Love you. All right, 812 00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:04.480 So this is taken from I don't even know what 813 00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:07.880 this text takes it from, because this this text actually 814 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:11.280 I can't find in PDF anywhere. It was never made 815 00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:13.840 into a PDAF. I mean maybe if someone has it, 816 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:16.599 they can send it to me. But I just found 817 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:20.079 this on archive and it had this section of the 818 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:24.199 Machiavelians in it. So yeah, let's just go and stop 819 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:29.079 any time. So this is Sam Francis reviewing the Machiavellians 820 00:56:29.119 --> 00:56:32.519 by James Burnham. I think machi Villen's written in forty 821 00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:36.360 one or forty two, a year year after manager or Revolution. 822 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:41.960 So all right, the managerial revolution has grown out of 823 00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:46.239 Burnham's dispute what Trotsky in the nineteen thirties, and was 824 00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:50.840 an answer to Trotsky Stalinist Russia was not a deformed 825 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:54.440 worker estate, but a new kind of society that Marxism 826 00:56:54.519 --> 00:57:00.639 had not anticipated, managerial society. Yet, despite Burnham's political and 827 00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:05.199 intellectual break with Marxism significant fragments of Marxist ideology, I've 828 00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:09.039 remained with him and seriously marred his statement of the 829 00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:14.639 theory of the managerial revolution. In The Machiavellians Defenders of Freedom, 830 00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:20.239 Burnham eradicated many of his remaining Marxist preconceptions, formulated a 831 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:24.320 general theory of human political behavior, and restated the theory 832 00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:28.840 of the managerial revolution in terms of this theoretical framework. 833 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:37.400 Yeah, there's definitely a uh, not so hidden critique of Marxism. 834 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:39.199 You can definitely tell you he's one hundred percent away 835 00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:41.480 from Marxism right now, even though that's kind of where 836 00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:42.039 he started. 837 00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:43.880 It's good to have you on here if we're going 838 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.280 to talk about Marxism, because I think we've we've probably 839 00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:49.920 done a bunch of episodes on Marxism together, haven't we. 840 00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:53.480 Yeah, a few books, few few readings. 841 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:57.280 All right. In his first book, which had begun with 842 00:57:57.320 --> 00:58:01.440 a long epigraph from Machiavelli's letter, Burnham had revealed a 843 00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:06.599 scathing contempt for what he called ideology. Although he recognized 844 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:09.519 the social need for ideologies as set as sets of 845 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:13.199 beliefs that hold societies together, he had dismissed them as 846 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:17.559 unscientific beliefs that were uncontrolled by facts. Manager of Revolution, 847 00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.119 page twenty eighty five. This discrepancy between logic and reality, 848 00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:26.280 between the verbalized form and the concrete meeting meaning is 849 00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:29.719 one that is a persistent theme in all of Burnham's writings, 850 00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:34.960 and one that he explicitly developed in the Machiavellians. Burnham 851 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.679 found in Machiavelli and in the four political theorists of 852 00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:41.320 the twentieth century, whom he described as Machiavellians, the foundations 853 00:58:41.360 --> 00:58:45.880 of a realistic method of social and political analysis. Contrasting 854 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:51.159 the theological and metaphysical political philosophy of Dante Allegaris in 855 00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:57.800 Demonarchia with the historically and empirically grounded approach of Machiavelli. 856 00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:02.079 Burnham developed a fundamental distate between the formal and the 857 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:06.239 real meaning of a statement. The formal meaning of a 858 00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:10.519 statement is the meaning which is explicitly stated, but which 859 00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:14.480 serves to express in an indirect and disguised manner what 860 00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:16.559 may be called the real meaning. 861 00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:23.159 Some it's an interesting metaphysical development. I love it. 862 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:25.920 This is quoting, but. 863 00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:30.199 Oh no, no, keep going quoting. 864 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.559 By real meaning, I refer to meaning not in terms 865 00:59:33.559 --> 00:59:37.440 of the fictional world of religion, metaphysics, miracles, and pseudohistory, 866 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:40.639 but in terms of the actual world of space, time 867 00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:41.920 and events. 868 00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:46.280 Yeah, I mean, metaphysics is like the lens in which 869 00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:49.599 we view reality and truth. So I don't know, Like, 870 00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.599 just the managerial Revolution is something I really got into 871 00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:57.199 of Burnham's and U I was about seventy five percent 872 00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:00.000 satisfied with it, and not just because it's a little outdated. 873 01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:04.280 Yeah. Yeah, no, that's what most people think. Most people 874 01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.800 say that it's a great book, but a lot of 875 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:10.679 people complain, well, he didn't get his predictions correct and everything. 876 01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:14.000 It's like, well, I mean, yeah, you're in the middle 877 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:19.000 a war had just started. Yeah, it's kind of hard. Yeah. 878 01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:19.239 Yeah. 879 01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:25.599 The real meaning, then, is the empirically discoverable and verifiable meaning, 880 01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:28.679 the only meaning that has value for expressing the truth. 881 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:33.199 In Machiavelli, Burnham argued there is no distinction between the 882 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:37.599 formal and real meanings because Machiavelli explicitly stated his goals 883 01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:40.840 and meaning, did not attempt to disguise them, and took 884 01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:44.400 pains to verify them empirically and to make them clear. 885 01:00:46.199 --> 01:00:49.840 Whether this is an accurate presentation of Machiavelli or not 886 01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:53.760 is not particularly important to the political theory that Burnham developed. 887 01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.079 His purpose was not to write a learned treatise on 888 01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:01.119 Renaissance history and philosophy, but to allow rate on empirically 889 01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:05.920 sound method of analyzing human political affairs. The tradition of 890 01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:10.559 political thought by Burnham labeled machiavellian did indeed derive many 891 01:01:10.639 --> 01:01:14.199 of its ideas from the sixteenth century Florentine But whether 892 01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.239 this was an accurate derivation and whether Machiavelli himself would 893 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:22.719 have endorsed Machiavellianism are separate and secondary questions. 894 01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:29.079 I've heard that critique before. Would Machiavelli have agreed with Burnham? 895 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:34.000 And uh? I don't know enough about Machiavelli the actual 896 01:01:34.039 --> 01:01:37.480 person to say whether or not he would, But I 897 01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:40.679 do know that you know he he did see the 898 01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:45.199 usefulness and in veiling your agenda. 899 01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:50.599 The four thinkers whom Burnham discussed in detail in The 900 01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:57.400 Machiavellians were George Sorel, Robert Michel's, Gezano Mosca, and Vilfredo Pereto. 901 01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.440 To at least some extent, all four saw them sells 902 01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:04.000 as the errors of Machiavelli. Like him, they were all 903 01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:07.440 concerned with the problems of political power, not with how 904 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:11.119 to justify power, nor with the external forms and appearances 905 01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:15.000 of power, but with how men actually use, pursue, attain, 906 01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:20.679 and lose power. Like Machiavelli, all four were profoundly conscious 907 01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:24.159 of the radical discrepancies between the formal disguises of power 908 01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:28.679 in rhetoric, ideology, and institutions and the terrible realities of 909 01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:32.920 power in the actual history of men. It's something that 910 01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:39.480 I can't stress enough is that people can talk about 911 01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:44.119 their ideology, their political ideology all they want, but when 912 01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:48.159 it comes down to ruling. And there's a great quote 913 01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:53.239 from Francis in the book, in the review of Suicide 914 01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:58.440 of the West, where he says, ideology never makes it 915 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:02.159 never exists in reality because it's formed in a vacuum 916 01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:05.639 outside of reality. So basically, once it's introduced to reality, 917 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:08.400 it just gets punched in the you know, it gets 918 01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:10.960 punched in the mouth and everything goes out the window. 919 01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:17.119 No, it's a it's a transcendent end goal to point 920 01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:23.760 to channel revolutionary or reformist energy into UH, into a 921 01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:27.559 transcendent goal. That's all. That's all ideology is. It's UH. 922 01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:29.880 Like like you said, it doesn't exist in reality, is 923 01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:30.880 purely metaphysical. 924 01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:35.400 Yeah, And another thing that he that Francis says in 925 01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:38.760 the review of stud of Suicide of the West is 926 01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:44.239 that basically ideology is there for the masses. They need 927 01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:51.760 to concentrate on something while the Machiavelians are actually ruling. Yes, 928 01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.119 so he gives them something to feel good about. It 929 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.840 gives them an identity. You know, something that I've been 930 01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:00.519 talking about on the timeline a lot today is how 931 01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:05.800 people make their political hir, their political ideology, their identity. 932 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.199 So he gives them something to feel good about. But 933 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:11.400 then they wonder their whole lives. How come what? You know, 934 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:14.159 this guy was talking about my ideology when he was 935 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:16.199 run when he was running for office, and then he 936 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:19.440 gets into office and my ideology doesn't materialize. Why. 937 01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:24.719 Well, A really useful tidbit that I got from Burnham 938 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.800 from the Managerial Revolution is that, uh, you know, in 939 01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:32.159 order for an ideology to become dominant, people at the 940 01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:34.280 masses have to be willing to die for it. And 941 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:37.920 that's kind of how you know that capitalism or liberalism 942 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:42.599 or even socialism slash Marxism will not be the dominant 943 01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:46.719 ideology any at any point in time, because it's been 944 01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:48.920 a while since people were willing to die for it 945 01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:52.719 or willing to kill for it, even at least not 946 01:04:52.840 --> 01:04:55.320 in mass, not in any not in any great extent. 947 01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.480 But you know, that's that's kind of the lens that 948 01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:03.239 I view acceleration trying to predict accelerationism from, is what 949 01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.679 are some things that are pop that are popping up 950 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:11.079 now that maybe might be inspirational enough to for people 951 01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:16.719 to kill or die for. Well, well, but sure, the 952 01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:21.519 Machiavelians are are definitely willing to die for it, or 953 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:26.920 at least try to send people to die for. But yeah, nowadays. 954 01:05:26.679 --> 01:05:29.760 I'm talking about israeliself. You know what we've seen since 955 01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.719 October seventh. 956 01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:32.719 Yeah, willing to kill for it absolutely. 957 01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:34.519 Yeah. I don't think they're willing to die for it. 958 01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:37.360 I think they're definitely willing to drop bombs for it. Yeah, 959 01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:39.440 but it seems like the Huthis are willing to die 960 01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:39.679 for what. 961 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:46.239 Yeah, yep, I mean any any sect of islam Is 962 01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:50.519 you can usually find some flowers in there to pluck. 963 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:56.480 Thirdly, like Machiavelli, they believe that through the observation and 964 01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:59.480 study of the history of power relationships, a set of 965 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:03.920 generalists about power and men's usage of it could be formulated. 966 01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:08.400 In other words, that historically grounded science of power, not 967 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:13.360 a philosophy or ethical theory, was possible. That's why whenever 968 01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:17.239 you have these libertarians I was dealing with today on 969 01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:20.719 the timeline, who are like, oh, so, so you believe 970 01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:22.880 in an imaginary line and you don't want people to 971 01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.440 cross it. Why do you love violence? Because I do? 972 01:06:27.639 --> 01:06:28.000 Yeah? 973 01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:31.880 I mean it's like and then I realized when they 974 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:35.079 were when people are making that asking that question, why 975 01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:38.360 do you have a problem with this? It's very feminine. 976 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:43.920 It's it's long. It's like literally long housing. It's like 977 01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:47.480 they've they've been completely long, long housed, and it's created 978 01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:48.960 their ideology and they're. 979 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:55.039 Questioning, Well, since the twenties, we've kind of since we 980 01:06:55.119 --> 01:07:00.280 started getting into psychoanalysis like Freud and all that. You know, 981 01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:05.679 have you noticed that everything is positive as a psychoanalytical diagnosis? 982 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:09.599 Yes, yeah, why are you It's it's always it's never 983 01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:12.400 about are you doing this for? 984 01:07:12.920 --> 01:07:13.079 You know? 985 01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:15.960 Did you do this to acquire land? Did you go 986 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:18.400 to war to acquire land? Did you go to war 987 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:21.800 to do this? It's always what's wrong with you? Why 988 01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:22.760 would they do this? 989 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:26.679 Yeah? Even like in the uh, even like the etymology 990 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:29.840 of words like transphobe that sounds like a mental illness 991 01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:32.480 that you know, eighty years ago would have got you 992 01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:37.000 put in put into an asylum. And that's where we're 993 01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.440 still looking at that today. That's still the norm today 994 01:07:40.519 --> 01:07:45.480 is everything is psychoanalytical, everything is scientific, and uh, you know, 995 01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:47.800 when you when you talk about good and evil to 996 01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:51.800 a leftist or a really committed liberal, it's not that 997 01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:54.679 they don't believe in it. It's just that that exists 998 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:58.679 outside of their metaphysics. And because they don't believe that 999 01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:00.559 this is something I learned from denote or this isn't 1000 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:02.920 believe it, believe it or not, this isn't an original 1001 01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:07.840 thought I had, But they don't. They don't have in 1002 01:08:07.880 --> 01:08:12.719 their metaphysics anything that exists outside of science or psychoanalysis. 1003 01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:15.760 So when you talk about good and evil or you know, 1004 01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:18.640 these these things that we always have understood, we we 1005 01:08:18.760 --> 01:08:23.119 white people have always understood as universal metaphysics that you 1006 01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:25.600 and I can engage in a conversation and be reasonably 1007 01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:28.720 assured that you know, we're gonna we're gonna abide within 1008 01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:31.720 a certain framework that's completely out the window with them, 1009 01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:35.000 because they just it doesn't compute. They're like, why are 1010 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:37.279 you talking about that? Why are you asking that question? 1011 01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:40.520 It's it's like you by asking the question, you have 1012 01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:43.880 a mental illness. You're There's just nothing you can say, 1013 01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:47.239 isn't it isn't problematic? 1014 01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:51.880 Yeah, it either list it's a confusion or a disgust response, 1015 01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:54.520 which you know we kind of get from them too. So, 1016 01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:56.439 all things being equal. 1017 01:08:56.800 --> 01:09:01.319 I was noticing, you know, Stone Toss got doxed. H yep, 1018 01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:06.159 and when I saw there are people openly celebrating it 1019 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:09.760 on Twitter, and I'm like, this is the most feminine 1020 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:10.600 thing I've ever seen. 1021 01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:19.960 Yeah, yeah, yas queen. Yeah, a ninety nine post thread. 1022 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:24.319 Yeah yeah, I saw that. Could you imagine taking it? 1023 01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:26.239 I can't wait till he does a comic about it. 1024 01:09:26.359 --> 01:09:30.279 Yeah, all right. Behind these common beliefs was a body 1025 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.239 of common assumptions about the nature of political man and 1026 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:37.920 human history. The Machiavelians saw political life as constantly in flux, 1027 01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:43.920 so the process of change is repetitive and roughly cyclical, 1028 01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:48.399 quoting the recurring pattern of change expresses the more or 1029 01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:52.359 less permanent core of human nature as it functions politically. 1030 01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:57.000 The instability of all governments and political forms follows in 1031 01:09:57.199 --> 01:10:04.039 part from the timeless human appetite for power. Really need 1032 01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:06.600 to make my after teal, I really need to read 1033 01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:10.239 Disquisition on Government by John C. Calhoun because he talks 1034 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:11.640 so much about stuff like this. 1035 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:12.720 Hm. 1036 01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:17.279 Because of the recurrent patterns of change, history moves in 1037 01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:23.479 cycles and is not a uni linear progression. The repetitive 1038 01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:27.760 cycles make possible a science of human political behavior. What 1039 01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:30.239 men have done before, they will do again in the 1040 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:33.439 future and within the limits. It is therefore possible to 1041 01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:37.199 predict their behavior through analogies drawn from history. 1042 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:41.640 Yeah, I mean, unless you believe in put like that 1043 01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:43.479 we exist in post history. 1044 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:50.039 Machiavelli and his followers saw men in general as evil quote, 1045 01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:53.439 all men are bad and ever ready to display their 1046 01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:57.399 vicious nature whenever they may find occasion for it. The 1047 01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:01.279 Machiavelians depicted human beings as in satiable in their desire 1048 01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:06.439 for power, wealth and pre eminence, but also as irrational, prejudice, ignorant, 1049 01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:10.079 and easily deceived by others as well as by themselves. 1050 01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:12.800 Yeah. 1051 01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:19.600 Mosca specifically criticized and rejected the optimistic progressivism as of Rousseau. 1052 01:11:20.119 --> 01:11:26.079 It reminds me of who is it spangler or optimism 1053 01:11:26.199 --> 01:11:27.520 is cowardice? 1054 01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:30.479 Yeah. 1055 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:36.199 Peretto devoted much of the six volume six volumes, six volumes. 1056 01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:39.399 Parretto devoted much of the six volumes of the Mind 1057 01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:45.199 in Society to exposing human irrationality and appetitive motivations. 1058 01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:48.119 I'm not gonna lie to you. I've tried to read 1059 01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:50.239 original works by Pareto and I could not. 1060 01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:52.199 He's really tough to read. 1061 01:11:52.319 --> 01:11:52.520 Man. 1062 01:11:52.640 --> 01:11:56.479 I have the I have a couple books, a couple 1063 01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.279 of smaller books on the elites, and man, it's it's 1064 01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:00.399 a slogsome times. 1065 01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:03.479 No, you just it's like he introduces a bunch of 1066 01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:07.000 mathematical concepts and I can't. I can't do it. I 1067 01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:09.319 can't follow that. I'm not that smart. Sorry. 1068 01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:14.760 Sorell explicated the role of myths and falsehoods in providing 1069 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:19.800 a unifying force for political action, especially violent action. Michelle's 1070 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.600 throughout his work on political parties, showed how minorities continually 1071 01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:29.479 monopolized power by deceiving and coercing the mass membership. Yep, 1072 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:34.319 A lot to be said about that right there. The 1073 01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:37.600 emphasis on human evil and irrationality is central to the 1074 01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:42.319 Machiavelian argument Burnham and the Machiavelians saw politics and to 1075 01:12:42.439 --> 01:12:45.359 a large extent, of human condition in terms of the 1076 01:12:45.399 --> 01:12:49.079 savage and incessant struggle for power at all levels of society, 1077 01:12:49.479 --> 01:12:52.600 regardless of how this struggle might be disguised by language, 1078 01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:55.560 symbolism and institutional forms. 1079 01:12:56.159 --> 01:13:00.680 And see this is where I think Burna kind of 1080 01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:03.760 retained a little bit of his Marxism, or at least 1081 01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:09.960 his Hygelianism. Is you know, when you're talking about, what 1082 01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.520 does that say, regardless of all of this struggle might 1083 01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:16.079 be disguised by language, symbolism and institutional forms. I don't 1084 01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:23.039 think that Burnham took too much, didn't give enough account 1085 01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:27.800 for things that exist outside the dialectic, when, especially in 1086 01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:32.039 his critique of socialism, it was still very scientific, and 1087 01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:35.399 it was still very focused on you know, material and 1088 01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:42.359 economic uh, economic dialectic struggles just not not resolving in 1089 01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:44.800 a way that Marxist prescribed it would, you know, with 1090 01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:48.840 dialectical materialism. But another thing I learned from Denotie is 1091 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:52.600 that they really didn't give any attention to the more 1092 01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:56.279 abstract things like you know what what he just mentioned, 1093 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:02.079 you know, language symbolism, institutional forms, aulture, religion, and just 1094 01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:06.399 things that exist outside of you know, empirical science. 1095 01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:12.159 There's other ideologies that we may be another ideology we 1096 01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:14.720 may be familiar with, who fails to do the same 1097 01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:15.680 thing I assume. 1098 01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.560 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's there's I hate to say, 1099 01:14:19.600 --> 01:14:24.520 I hate using this word, but it's nuanced, which doesn't 1100 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:25.359 really say anything. 1101 01:14:26.439 --> 01:14:30.560 Driven by insatiable app insatiable appetites and irrational beliefs, men 1102 01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:34.319 seek to dominate each other or to escape domination by others. 1103 01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:38.039 This struggle invariably results in a minority coming to power, 1104 01:14:38.239 --> 01:14:44.199 monopolizing as much as possible political, economic, military, technical, and 1105 01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:49.359 honorific resources, and excluding and oppressing the majority. Thus is 1106 01:14:49.439 --> 01:14:54.920 formed an elite peretto ruling class mosca or oligarchy Michelle's 1107 01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:58.119 that rules the majority and exploits it for its own 1108 01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:02.760 benefit through force and odd The rule of elites and 1109 01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:06.800 human societies is inevitable, and therefore oligarchy is the only 1110 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:11.640 possible distribution of power. What what Michelle's called the iron 1111 01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:13.000 law of oligarchy. 1112 01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:17.399 I mean, if you had asked me if I agree 1113 01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:20.159 with that five ten years or yeah, ten years ago, 1114 01:15:20.279 --> 01:15:22.920 now I would have would have called you a statist. 1115 01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:29.159 Now you just you become a realist and then in 1116 01:15:29.199 --> 01:15:32.000 the eyes of some that means that you're immoral. 1117 01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:36.600 Yeah, I mean, this is this is scientific. It is, 1118 01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:39.920 it is. It is an observable fact that power is 1119 01:15:39.960 --> 01:15:44.960 always concentrated and select few individuals. And they're not very 1120 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:45.640 nice people. 1121 01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:47.600 We know science, they're not. 1122 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:49.039 They're all libertarians. 1123 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:53.359 We know science is racist. So yeah, there is no 1124 01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:57.079 end to oligarchical rule. Although one elite may lose its 1125 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:01.359 power in power indeed always is its power, sooner or 1126 01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:04.680 later another minority takes its place through what Pereto calls 1127 01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:08.119 the circulation of elites, and the record of this unending 1128 01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:12.319 rise and fall of ruling minorities in human is human history. 1129 01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:15.800 So one thing I wanted to pick your brain on 1130 01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:20.000 having listened to your episode with uh Catgirl Kulak today, 1131 01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:23.000 is I wanted I wanted to ask you what do 1132 01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:28.720 you what do you suspect will be the circulation of elites? If, if, 1133 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:33.319 or when his his predictions of a full on collapse 1134 01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:36.039 by twenty thirty, what what does that circulation of elites 1135 01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:36.560 look like? 1136 01:16:38.439 --> 01:16:43.800 I mean, I think it It may break down regionally. 1137 01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:47.720 You may have new elites stepping up, or you know, 1138 01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:54.319 most of the time it's it's existing release elites. You 1139 01:16:54.399 --> 01:16:56.960 just they just you know, it's like people have said, 1140 01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:01.239 because we've been talking about the PayPal mafia and how 1141 01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:04.279 you know, we see them as trying to make a 1142 01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:08.279 move right now and push the elites out and take over. 1143 01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:11.800 And you know, someone made the comment, well, they're already 1144 01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:14.920 a part of the elites, you know, t Loans, Palins here, 1145 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:19.279 all these countries. But I think Aaron McIntyre made a 1146 01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:22.399 really good point today. He said the elites always come 1147 01:17:22.479 --> 01:17:28.319 from within. I mean Caesar wasn't Caesar wasn't an outsider. Yeah, 1148 01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:32.359 you know pin o Ch. You know when you have 1149 01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:35.159 when you have radical change. You know, p o Ch 1150 01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:39.159 was not. I mean he didn't come in from another country. 1151 01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:42.479 He was in the military. He was somebody that everyone knew. 1152 01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:46.439 The circulation of elites always happens from the inside. So 1153 01:17:46.520 --> 01:17:49.119 if you're thinking that your neighbor, you know, is going 1154 01:17:49.199 --> 01:17:50.840 to be an elite unless you write, you know, do 1155 01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:54.279 like Kappa the teachers, and you do it locally and 1156 01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:57.279 you you know, find a natural elite and you raise 1157 01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:00.199 them up to you know, take over and help to 1158 01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:06.920 change a locale. Then you'll know that this person is 1159 01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:11.640 coming in from outside, but I mean at the national level, 1160 01:18:11.680 --> 01:18:16.680 at a government level, at a oligarchical level, it's always 1161 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.039 going to be from the existing elites. They're just going 1162 01:18:19.119 --> 01:18:21.359 to move in and they're just going to switch them out, 1163 01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:24.560 and you're just going to hope that it's going to 1164 01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:26.800 be they're going to be more in your favor than 1165 01:18:26.800 --> 01:18:30.000 the previous elites. But if everything does fall apart at 1166 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:35.359 twenty thirty, I mean, all I see is people will 1167 01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:39.600 be begging for anybody. And I think that the person, 1168 01:18:40.520 --> 01:18:46.199 you know, whoever has set themselves up with the most 1169 01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:51.000 with a rhetoric of we're Americans, we should be proud 1170 01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:54.119 of our heritage. We can take our heritage back. We 1171 01:18:54.159 --> 01:18:55.880 don't have to put up with it, we don't have 1172 01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:58.880 to put up with us. I think that is that's 1173 01:18:58.960 --> 01:19:04.920 the person who is more going to be to circulate 1174 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:08.560 in and out, and who's somebody who they may potentially 1175 01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:12.079 look to in order to try to get them out 1176 01:19:12.119 --> 01:19:12.840 of that situation. 1177 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:17.920 Yeah. I mean, the reason why this would be so unprecedented, 1178 01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:21.119 if I mean, one of the reasons why the main 1179 01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:23.399 reason I think about is when I think of a collapse, 1180 01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:25.800 I think and I think of a power vacuum, and 1181 01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:28.159 who fills that power vacuum. It's whoever has the most 1182 01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.119 hard power and whoever has the most energy behind them. 1183 01:19:31.359 --> 01:19:35.880 And right now, well, you know, if theoretically a few 1184 01:19:35.960 --> 01:19:39.159 years before collapse, there's a lot of energy stored right 1185 01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:42.039 now and it's just waiting to burst. So if his 1186 01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:45.239 prediction is correct, man, that's going to be crazy, because 1187 01:19:45.800 --> 01:19:48.199 I think people right now are just you know, the 1188 01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:50.199 only thing stopping them right now is you know, they 1189 01:19:50.199 --> 01:19:52.279 have a job, they get to you know, they have 1190 01:19:52.319 --> 01:19:55.800 a family. They may not have access to a whole 1191 01:19:55.800 --> 01:20:01.359 lot of hard power. But man, like, wouldn't that be 1192 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:06.399 just uh, his historically unprecedented collapse. 1193 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:11.199 Well, you know, Charles Haywood believes that with the way 1194 01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:14.720 the regime is attacking Elon Musk, He said at the 1195 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:17.560 end of a recent podcast he did that he thought 1196 01:20:17.600 --> 01:20:22.520 that Elon Musk may turn to basically creating his own 1197 01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:26.199 private security force, which would be his own his own 1198 01:20:26.239 --> 01:20:26.880 private army. 1199 01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:30.119 Yeah, but then again, like this is a fine this 1200 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:33.560 would be uh. The the match point would be a 1201 01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:37.199 financial collapse, which implies that the dollar doesn't really have 1202 01:20:37.239 --> 01:20:40.800 any value anymore. So now it just becomes like, you know, 1203 01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:44.039 depending on how hard it is a barter system, who 1204 01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:46.319 has the most assets to barter, who has the most 1205 01:20:46.479 --> 01:20:47.600 who has the most trade. 1206 01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:51.600 Well, here's the thing is the people who are going 1207 01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:55.439 to rule, the people who would roll after a after 1208 01:20:55.479 --> 01:20:57.640 a collapse, or the people who've already been planning for 1209 01:20:57.680 --> 01:20:58.279 the collapse. 1210 01:20:58.800 --> 01:20:59.199 Mm hmm. 1211 01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:06.000 And I would assume that there are people already in 1212 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:10.479 in elite positions who have already have an idea of 1213 01:21:10.520 --> 01:21:13.239 what a new currency would look like and things like that. 1214 01:21:13.439 --> 01:21:14.560 So I mean, I think that's. 1215 01:21:14.479 --> 01:21:17.840 Where it goes well for us. No, No, not at 1216 01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:19.560 all for my suburban asks. 1217 01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:25.600 All right, these conclusions are bleak, and the Machiavelians saw 1218 01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:30.119 little ground for hope of democratic emancipation. Modern democracy they 1219 01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:33.439 interpreted as a special kind of disguised oligarchy based on 1220 01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:37.439 commercial and industrial power, and not fundamentally different from early 1221 01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:43.159 kinds of elitism. Mosca and Pareto in particular, saw socialism 1222 01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:46.079 as no more than an illusion that threatens to subordinate 1223 01:21:46.159 --> 01:21:48.560 all of society to an elite based on the power 1224 01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:53.279 of the state. To Michelle's, oligarchy was an inherent part 1225 01:21:53.319 --> 01:21:58.000 of social and political organization, a doctrine that was most 1226 01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:01.000 common to most of the Machiavelians in which Burnham emphasized, 1227 01:22:01.119 --> 01:22:04.159 was the concept of what Moscaw called the political formula 1228 01:22:04.760 --> 01:22:12.279 Pereto called derivations and surrel called myths. According to these writers, 1229 01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:16.479 elites do not hold power simply through force and intimidation. 1230 01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:22.560 They formulate doctrines that rationalize or justify their control in logical, moral, theological, 1231 01:22:22.840 --> 01:22:29.399 or philosophical terms. These doctrines political formulas, derivations or myths, 1232 01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:34.279 or as Burnham called them in the Managerial Revolution, ideologies 1233 01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:39.560 act as social and politically integrative forces, and are often 1234 01:22:39.640 --> 01:22:45.199 quite sophisticated and complex in their structures. Most members of 1235 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:48.840 a society of a society, elites as well as non elites, 1236 01:22:49.119 --> 01:22:54.840 believe them and to at least some extent, take them seriously. Nevertheless, 1237 01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:58.359 I think less and less, don't you agree? Don't you 1238 01:22:58.399 --> 01:23:02.439 think people I would say elites more so than any 1239 01:23:02.680 --> 01:23:05.079 but I think more and more people even just walking 1240 01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:08.560 around basically or just at the at the end of 1241 01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:10.960 their rope, where they're just when it comes to ideologies 1242 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:13.319 and they're just like, I'm just got to take care 1243 01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:13.880 of myself. 1244 01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:21.159 I think what separates maybe our our side from the 1245 01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:24.239 normies and from the other side is that, uh, we 1246 01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:26.680 don't view ideology as an ends. We view it as 1247 01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:31.359 a means. And uh that's that. I don't know, I 1248 01:23:31.399 --> 01:23:34.439 got nothing else on that, but yeah, pretty much that's it. 1249 01:23:34.439 --> 01:23:36.560 It's a mean, it's a means to it. It's a 1250 01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:39.359 means to an end, you know, pointing, pointing the masses 1251 01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:44.680 in a direction, propaganda, you know, channeling energy towards a 1252 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:48.279 certain outcome. That's that's all. Going towards a means to 1253 01:23:48.319 --> 01:23:51.279 a desirable end that we would like or we hope happens, 1254 01:23:51.640 --> 01:23:53.640 or we hope to get somebody in there that can 1255 01:23:53.680 --> 01:23:56.079 make it happen, you know, if they happened to if 1256 01:23:56.079 --> 01:23:59.960 it happens to be of a particular ideology, like, it's 1257 01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:04.119 really of no consequence to us. Now, call it Christian nationalism, 1258 01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:08.520 call it fucking white nationalism, ethne whatever, like, as long 1259 01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:12.800 as most of our desired ends are going to be fulfilled, 1260 01:24:12.880 --> 01:24:14.600 Like we know that we don't have the luxury to 1261 01:24:14.640 --> 01:24:15.279 pick and choose. 1262 01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:19.960 Most members of the society's elites as well as non elites, 1263 01:24:20.239 --> 01:24:24.159 I believe them. Nevertheless, despite their sophistication and large number 1264 01:24:24.199 --> 01:24:27.319 of adherents. These ideologies are not to be regarded as 1265 01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:31.039 scientific in purpose or content. Their purpose is not to 1266 01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:33.720 express or explain reality in a way that can be 1267 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:37.399 proved or disproved, but to provide a rationalization for the 1268 01:24:37.439 --> 01:24:41.800 existence and power of the dominant minority. The fact that 1269 01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:46.079 ideologies are not scientific, and that those who believe in 1270 01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:49.520 them do so for non rational reasons means that it 1271 01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:54.000 is useless to criticize ideologies in terms of verifiable facts 1272 01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:57.760 or logic. All you have to do is just make 1273 01:24:57.800 --> 01:24:58.640 fun of them. 1274 01:24:59.319 --> 01:25:04.439 Mock them, yes, dehumanize other eyes, whatever you want to 1275 01:25:04.479 --> 01:25:06.239 call it, I do it. 1276 01:25:06.359 --> 01:25:11.159 Yeah. Ideology is impervious to such criticism because belief in 1277 01:25:11.239 --> 01:25:14.279 it is dependent on non rational factors such as self 1278 01:25:14.279 --> 01:25:19.000 interest or emotion. The fact that an elite itself usually 1279 01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:22.800 believes in most or all of its own ideology also 1280 01:25:22.880 --> 01:25:25.760 means that no elite can be entirely scientific in its 1281 01:25:25.800 --> 01:25:30.439 own thinking and behavior. Any elite must always, to some extent, 1282 01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:35.039 be the victim of its own myths. Burnham argued that 1283 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:39.479 the Machiabelians the Machiavelian science of power could provide a 1284 01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:43.079 non ideological framework for an elite, but he was highly 1285 01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:47.199 skeptical that any elite could for long make successful use 1286 01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:48.039 of this science. 1287 01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:52.920 Yeah, good on his part, because I mean, when you 1288 01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:56.840 think of any great man that ever arose, it's exactly 1289 01:25:56.840 --> 01:25:59.600 what it said. They talk the talk as far as 1290 01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:02.359 ideolology goes. They may have even believed some of it. 1291 01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:05.560 But uh, you'll take any great man and none of 1292 01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:08.800 them were pure, purely ideological in practice. 1293 01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:10.960 Well, well, think about this, and I know people are 1294 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:14.720 probably sick of me bringing him up, but bout Kelly. 1295 01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:17.960 I only know two things about bout Kelly. I know 1296 01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:21.720 that he hates crime and crack down on it. And 1297 01:26:21.760 --> 01:26:25.000 he likes bitcoin. Yeah, that's the only I mean. 1298 01:26:25.279 --> 01:26:29.039 I know that he ideology, which is no great. 1299 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:31.359 Yeah, so he doesn't. I don't know that he has 1300 01:26:31.359 --> 01:26:34.079 an ideology. He first ran for president in a far 1301 01:26:34.199 --> 01:26:36.880 left party, he got kicked out of that had to go, 1302 01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:41.439 I mean, bounced all around, you know it. All all 1303 01:26:41.479 --> 01:26:45.239 I can judge him on is what he's done. Yeah, 1304 01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:48.199 you know, I mean he's kissed the wall. Yes, his 1305 01:26:48.199 --> 01:26:51.000 his wife has some sephardic in her, Yes, Yeah, I 1306 01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:54.159 know that that's that. That means that you're just waiting 1307 01:26:54.199 --> 01:26:56.960 for the other shoe to drop. He's going to disappoint 1308 01:26:57.000 --> 01:26:59.760 you because he did that. All I can judge him 1309 01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:01.760 on is what he's done so far, and everything he's 1310 01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:03.439 done so far looks pretty damn good to me. 1311 01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:07.840 Yeah, we don't. We don't have the luxury of having 1312 01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:13.800 the expectation of even a somewhat pure great man that 1313 01:27:13.960 --> 01:27:16.800 comes and you know, sweeps, sweeps whatever this is away. 1314 01:27:17.199 --> 01:27:20.119 We know, like, like take Musk for example, he's probably 1315 01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:22.920 the most likely candidate to fight the fight the current 1316 01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:27.000 regime and maybe went out. He's on the right track. 1317 01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:31.279 But uh, you know, he's definitely not ideological. He wants 1318 01:27:31.319 --> 01:27:33.840 to get to Mars, that's about it, and anything that 1319 01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:36.840 stands in between him and that goal needs to be 1320 01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:40.479 swept away. That's that's not an ideology either. 1321 01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:44.880 No, No, that's he has a goal. That's it's all right. 1322 01:27:46.760 --> 01:27:49.720 Burnham and the Machiavelians tended to interpret all of social 1323 01:27:49.760 --> 01:27:53.119 and political reality in terms of the doctrine of the elite. 1324 01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:56.960 For them, the nature of the elite is largely determinative 1325 01:27:57.560 --> 01:28:02.880 of other social, economic, political, and cultural institutions. Institutions that 1326 01:28:02.920 --> 01:28:05.680 are not consistent with the perceived interests of an elite 1327 01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:09.840 are abolished. Or discouraged, while those that are are or 1328 01:28:09.880 --> 01:28:13.680 would be consistent with its perceived interests are created or promoted. 1329 01:28:14.079 --> 01:28:18.840 Quoting from the quoting from the book. From the point 1330 01:28:18.840 --> 01:28:20.760 of view of the theory of the ruling class, a 1331 01:28:20.840 --> 01:28:24.720 society is the society of its ruling class. A nation's 1332 01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:30.720 strengths or weaknesses, its cultures, its powers of endurance, its prosperity, 1333 01:28:30.760 --> 01:28:34.359 its decadence depend in the first instance, upon the nature 1334 01:28:34.399 --> 01:28:38.359 of its ruling elite. More particularly, the way in which 1335 01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:41.039 to study a nation, to understand it, to predict what 1336 01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:44.239 will happen to it, requires, first of all, and primarily, 1337 01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:48.600 an analysis of the ruling class. Political history and political 1338 01:28:48.600 --> 01:28:52.399 science are thus predominantly the history and science of ruling classes, 1339 01:28:52.600 --> 01:29:00.239 their origin, development, composition, structure, and changes. The important that 1340 01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:03.960 the Machiavelians attached to the elite or ruling class resembles 1341 01:29:04.119 --> 01:29:08.880 and to a degree parallels Marx's emphasis on economic forces 1342 01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:13.399 in interpreting history. Yet the Machiavelian theory of elite is 1343 01:29:13.399 --> 01:29:16.199 a broader doctrine than that of Marx, and allows for 1344 01:29:16.239 --> 01:29:21.199 consideration of non economic and non material forces in understanding 1345 01:29:21.239 --> 01:29:24.119 men in history, far more than Marx did. 1346 01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:28.319 Yeah which is very difficult when you factor in all 1347 01:29:28.359 --> 01:29:32.399 of the other, you know, non non scientific factors that 1348 01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:37.920 go into going to studying the history of a of 1349 01:29:37.960 --> 01:29:42.279 a nation, a culture of people. You know, it gets 1350 01:29:42.359 --> 01:29:48.520 so far beyond dialectics. It's insane. It's hard. That's why, 1351 01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:51.359 that's why predicting things is so fucking hard. There's too 1352 01:29:51.359 --> 01:29:52.560 many goddamn factors. 1353 01:29:54.520 --> 01:29:58.039 Nevertheless, because Burnham and the Machiavelians saw politics in terms 1354 01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.520 of a struggle for power, and the struggle for power 1355 01:30:00.600 --> 01:30:03.359 was central to the nature of an elite and to 1356 01:30:03.520 --> 01:30:07.039 all other social relationships, it would not be inaccurate to 1357 01:30:07.079 --> 01:30:12.079 describe Machiavelianism as a kind of political determinism paralleling the 1358 01:30:12.119 --> 01:30:14.279 economic determinism of Marx. 1359 01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:18.000 Let me ask you this, do you think there was 1360 01:30:18.079 --> 01:30:22.720 really a struggle for power? You know, I think I 1361 01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:27.199 think it's roundly agreed circuit. Somewhere around twenty twelve is 1362 01:30:27.239 --> 01:30:29.520 when we kind of had this turning point into what 1363 01:30:29.560 --> 01:30:33.680 we have now, which is just like gay trans Soviet Russia. 1364 01:30:34.319 --> 01:30:38.399 But before that, I mean, we told there's been a 1365 01:30:38.439 --> 01:30:41.199 lot of talk about how great the nineties was and 1366 01:30:41.640 --> 01:30:48.439 how you know, how basically unified we were, how basically 1367 01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:52.720 free and prosperous we were, and how happy we were. 1368 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.239 I think there's something to that. The culture was definitely 1369 01:30:56.239 --> 01:31:00.000 different the ruling class. Do you think the ruling class 1370 01:31:00.159 --> 01:31:03.399 was different then? And then we had maybe not even 1371 01:31:03.439 --> 01:31:05.520 a struggle that got us to where we are now, 1372 01:31:06.640 --> 01:31:08.560 and that kind of defined the nature of why they're 1373 01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:10.640 so incompetent because they didn't have to struggle for it. 1374 01:31:11.239 --> 01:31:13.319 Well, I think Thomas makes a really good point about 1375 01:31:13.319 --> 01:31:16.920 the early nineties, is the nineties, especially the first half 1376 01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:19.319 of the nineties, is that it was it was kind 1377 01:31:19.319 --> 01:31:25.239 of anarchy. There was and you know, I know that 1378 01:31:25.720 --> 01:31:28.560 the anarchists watching, they want me to make an argument 1379 01:31:28.600 --> 01:31:31.960 that anarchy's good because it means without rulers. That's what 1380 01:31:33.079 --> 01:31:35.079 it means, without rulers. 1381 01:31:35.079 --> 01:31:37.760 Shut the fuck up, you know, we mean the normal Yeah. 1382 01:31:37.640 --> 01:31:41.039 Yeah, we mean the definition that everybody agrees upon. Oh 1383 01:31:41.039 --> 01:31:45.800 but that's democracy. Yeah, go fuck your mother. I mean 1384 01:31:46.079 --> 01:31:49.359 people getting the amount of crime people get. I mean, 1385 01:31:49.359 --> 01:31:54.880 there's a reason why basically Juliani had to unleash an 1386 01:31:54.960 --> 01:31:57.199 army onto the streets to stop crime in New York. 1387 01:31:58.520 --> 01:32:02.640 It had reached And here's the thing. The people who 1388 01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:06.760 talk about the nineties being this great. They're usually leftists, 1389 01:32:07.159 --> 01:32:09.760 they're usually people from the left side. Well, why was 1390 01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:12.039 the nineties great? Because they could get away with doing 1391 01:32:12.119 --> 01:32:14.680 all the degenerate shit that they wanted to. They weren't 1392 01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:17.439 judged for it. It was fine. I mean, I knew 1393 01:32:17.439 --> 01:32:21.119 people who, yeah. 1394 01:32:20.479 --> 01:32:22.640 It was live and let live, but also live and 1395 01:32:22.720 --> 01:32:26.720 let live to like to be, you know, kind of 1396 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:29.000 kind of more on the right than you are allowed 1397 01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:29.439 to be now. 1398 01:32:29.560 --> 01:32:33.279 Well, and not even that, because you think about the 1399 01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:36.159 pat Con movement where they would go. They were going 1400 01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:38.680 after right wing militia groups and you know, they don't 1401 01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:40.880 even talk about that, like half of those militia groups 1402 01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:42.239 that they took down that black. 1403 01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:44.000 Still you still couldn't be that far to that it's 1404 01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:45.880 still illegal to be that far to the right. But 1405 01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:48.640 you know, you could call your friend a fag, or 1406 01:32:48.680 --> 01:32:50.840 you could like, you know, you could say the N 1407 01:32:50.920 --> 01:32:53.279 word and nobody would like, nobody would freak out about 1408 01:32:53.319 --> 01:32:56.560 it amongst your peer group. Now, not so much, I. 1409 01:32:56.479 --> 01:32:59.479 Mean, but it was, it was. It was heaven for 1410 01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:02.520 so one like James Lindsay, he got away with doing 1411 01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:05.439 all the degenerate shit he wanted to, and far right 1412 01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:07.000 wingers were being cracked down upon. 1413 01:33:07.880 --> 01:33:11.279 Yeah, yep. And the other question I have is do 1414 01:33:11.319 --> 01:33:14.119 you think that would be the defining factor of say 1415 01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:18.560 the eighties Reagan years into the nineties, was the switch 1416 01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:22.199 between tough on crime and then you know, prison and 1417 01:33:22.479 --> 01:33:28.359 mandatory minimum sentencing, prison reform, mandatory minimum sentencing, this transfer 1418 01:33:28.439 --> 01:33:32.000 over to a softer approach, a more I don't know, 1419 01:33:32.199 --> 01:33:33.560 socially informed approach. 1420 01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:37.880 It's hard for me to say that. You know, in 1421 01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:41.239 the eighties, I was not That wasn't something that I 1422 01:33:41.279 --> 01:33:44.000 would have been able to really pay attention to. I 1423 01:33:44.039 --> 01:33:47.399 have to think about history, and you know, I'm not 1424 01:33:47.439 --> 01:33:51.079 going to be able to give a personal a personal 1425 01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:56.239 opinion on that. But I mean, really the problem in 1426 01:33:56.279 --> 01:33:58.520 the eighties was I mean, it was just the crime 1427 01:33:58.720 --> 01:34:03.319 was insane and it was just so matter of fact. 1428 01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:07.399 It's just you accepted the fact that there was all 1429 01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:10.239 this crime going on, and it's not like now where 1430 01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:13.199 you know, you have social media. Everybody's like, look, you 1431 01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:16.199 got these Soros DA's and they can go out and 1432 01:34:16.199 --> 01:34:18.239 commit crime all they want. If you try and stop them, 1433 01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:20.680 you go to jail. You know, you have people who 1434 01:34:22.119 --> 01:34:24.840 put up flyers who get two years in jail, someone 1435 01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:27.319 rapes a twelve year old, they get, you know, fifteen 1436 01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:32.640 months probation. You can talk more about that now it's 1437 01:34:32.840 --> 01:34:35.039 you can learn more about it because of social media, 1438 01:34:35.119 --> 01:34:37.760 but back then it was, you know, harder. You'd really 1439 01:34:37.800 --> 01:34:39.439 just have to go back into books and study the 1440 01:34:39.520 --> 01:34:42.239 history on that. But yeah, I can't really, I can't 1441 01:34:42.279 --> 01:34:45.479 really answer that question properly. But you know, being an 1442 01:34:45.479 --> 01:34:47.960 adult in the nineties and living through the nineties, Yeah, man, 1443 01:34:47.960 --> 01:34:51.119 I knew people who were you know, odeed, killed themselves, 1444 01:34:51.560 --> 01:34:55.039 got hung up on got hung up on on oxy 1445 01:34:55.199 --> 01:34:57.439 really early. I knew people got hung up on meth 1446 01:34:57.600 --> 01:35:01.119 real early on in the in the whole game, you know, 1447 01:35:01.159 --> 01:35:03.880 I knew people in I mean from when I was 1448 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:07.960 a kid. I knew people like my dad worked with 1449 01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:12.520 the guy whose wife was the first recorded crack victim 1450 01:35:12.520 --> 01:35:13.319 in New York City. 1451 01:35:14.079 --> 01:35:15.520 Oh wow, yeah huh. 1452 01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:17.520 And they were white. 1453 01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:18.199 Huh. 1454 01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:21.079 Yeah, yeah, so it is. 1455 01:35:21.239 --> 01:35:25.840 It is pretty great, all right. 1456 01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:29.720 It should also be understood that Burnam and his mentors 1457 01:35:29.760 --> 01:35:32.960 were not arguing for elitism in the sense of aristocracy. 1458 01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:35.880 They were not arguing that elites should rule the majority 1459 01:35:35.920 --> 01:35:40.000 because their members are better, more virtuous stronger, more intelligent, 1460 01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:42.520 or wiser than most men. They were arguing for the 1461 01:35:42.560 --> 01:35:48.479 sociological inevitability of minority domination, for the impossibility of majority rule, 1462 01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:52.479 and democracy in any literal or meaningful sense. I mean 1463 01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:56.439 democracy now. To me, when people ask me what democracy means, now, 1464 01:35:56.840 --> 01:36:03.840 I just tell them either whatever the region is pushing, sodomy, transgenderism, 1465 01:36:03.880 --> 01:36:05.680 I mean, that's basically what democracy is. 1466 01:36:06.479 --> 01:36:11.000 Yeah, And it's it's great to see, you know, the 1467 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:14.800 the inherent contradictions between democracy and liberalism kind of play 1468 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:20.159 itself out on the left, especially with this uh, Palestine 1469 01:36:20.239 --> 01:36:24.239 Israel thing going on. It's you could if you view 1470 01:36:24.239 --> 01:36:28.800 it through that lens, democracy versus liberalism. It's it's just 1471 01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:31.000 amazing to see, and it's only going to get better. 1472 01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:36.239 The fact of oligarchy, they argued, was founded on an 1473 01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:40.079 empirical and comparative study of history, on the biological and 1474 01:36:40.119 --> 01:36:43.560 psychological realities of human beings and on the nature of 1475 01:36:43.640 --> 01:36:47.319 human society societies. It was a fact that could be 1476 01:36:47.399 --> 01:36:51.840 neither ignored nor altered, and moral approbation or criticism of 1477 01:36:51.880 --> 01:36:56.039 the fact of oligarchy is irrelevant to its truth. Yet, 1478 01:36:56.079 --> 01:36:59.119 elites are not permanent, and the laws that govern the 1479 01:36:59.199 --> 01:37:01.279 change and the company position and the rise and fall 1480 01:37:01.319 --> 01:37:03.840 of elites were an important theme for Burnham and for 1481 01:37:04.039 --> 01:37:08.039 Mosca and Pereto, to whom he devoted most attention. Mosca 1482 01:37:08.119 --> 01:37:11.720 had recognized in all elites and aristocratic tendency by which 1483 01:37:11.760 --> 01:37:15.920 they tend to restrict or encourage entrance to or exit 1484 01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:16.880 from their ranks. 1485 01:37:18.039 --> 01:37:22.279 Yeah, that's that's another battleground. Is everybody wants to be 1486 01:37:23.920 --> 01:37:27.399 everybody wants. Everybody's chasing status. That's why you have people 1487 01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:29.399 going into two hundred thousand dollars in debt to go 1488 01:37:29.479 --> 01:37:31.880 to Harvard. That's so that they can have that degree 1489 01:37:31.960 --> 01:37:34.760 and enter the ranks of the elite, or at least 1490 01:37:35.039 --> 01:37:38.640 the near group of the elite. And it's it's going 1491 01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:42.560 to be really funny if we have a collapse. 1492 01:37:44.520 --> 01:37:48.880 When the restrictive aristocratic tendency is predominant, society is stable 1493 01:37:48.960 --> 01:37:53.039 and may begin to stagnate. When the democratic tendency is predominant, 1494 01:37:53.079 --> 01:37:57.479 society is in flux, with many innovations, social and political crises, 1495 01:37:58.239 --> 01:38:02.520 cultural ferment and perhaps disorder, chaos and revolution. 1496 01:38:03.359 --> 01:38:07.039 Yeah. Speaking of the transition between the nineties to the 1497 01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:08.840 early aughts. 1498 01:38:09.840 --> 01:38:13.279 Parretto himself went further and developed a psychology of elites 1499 01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:15.000 that is at the root of his theory of the 1500 01:38:15.039 --> 01:38:21.359 circulation of elites. Parreto distinguished between derivations of ideologies and residues, 1501 01:38:21.600 --> 01:38:27.399 which are constant universal psychological instincts or impulses. Among the 1502 01:38:27.439 --> 01:38:30.560 six classes of residues that Parreto recognized, the two most 1503 01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:34.800 important were those of class one, the instinct for combinations. 1504 01:38:35.039 --> 01:38:39.560 In class two, group preference, group persistence. 1505 01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:42.399 And then there's four more. And that's why I couldn't 1506 01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:43.479 read Parreto. 1507 01:38:44.840 --> 01:38:49.319 If you read AA's book on the one I read 1508 01:38:49.359 --> 01:38:53.079 on the Populist Delusion, he does a really good job 1509 01:38:53.119 --> 01:38:56.359 of summing it all up very fast, ya, in a 1510 01:38:56.439 --> 01:39:01.760 very short in very short chapters. These were excellent. Yeah, yeah, 1511 01:39:02.039 --> 01:39:07.720 it's a great book. I'm retarding these residues. Pereto specifically 1512 01:39:07.720 --> 01:39:11.479 correlated with Machiavelli's distinction between the fox and the lion 1513 01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:14.840 among rulers. Just as a ruler who's a fox relies 1514 01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:19.159 on cunning, deceit, and verbal and intellectual skills, elites whose 1515 01:39:19.199 --> 01:39:22.560 members are driven by class one residues tend to synthesize 1516 01:39:22.680 --> 01:39:27.920 arbitrary elements of their experience. Class one residues include behavioral 1517 01:39:27.960 --> 01:39:32.159 patterns such as those of magic, philosophical system making, and 1518 01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:39.800 financial manipulation. Elites that contain primarily verbalists, intellectuals, and administrators 1519 01:39:40.039 --> 01:39:43.600 will exhibit a high proportion of class one residues and 1520 01:39:43.680 --> 01:39:46.680 will try to preserve their own power and resolve problems 1521 01:39:46.720 --> 01:39:51.640 through verbal, administrative, and manipulative behavior rather than through the 1522 01:39:51.800 --> 01:39:58.279 use of force. They thus correspond to Machiavelli's foxes. Quoting 1523 01:39:58.680 --> 01:40:03.119 from the book Machiavellians, they live by their wits. They 1524 01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:06.560 put their reliance on fraud, deceit, and shrewdness. They do 1525 01:40:06.640 --> 01:40:10.079 not have strong attachment to family, church, nation, and traditions. 1526 01:40:10.479 --> 01:40:13.319 They live in the present, taking little thought of the future, 1527 01:40:13.560 --> 01:40:17.159 and are always ready for change, novelty, and adventure. They 1528 01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:19.880 are not adept as a rule in the use of force. 1529 01:40:20.279 --> 01:40:25.399 They are inventive and chance taking. Well, yep, we'll talk 1530 01:40:25.399 --> 01:40:26.960 a little bit about that for in a second. 1531 01:40:27.560 --> 01:40:30.680 I remember an episode from way back where I forget 1532 01:40:30.680 --> 01:40:32.880 if it was you or your guest, implied that we 1533 01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:37.119 are our elites are entirely comprised of foxes. There are 1534 01:40:37.239 --> 01:40:40.960 no lions, and maybe it was Trump. Maybe it's a lawn, 1535 01:40:41.479 --> 01:40:44.760 but they're definitely they're they're the lions right now, the 1536 01:40:44.840 --> 01:40:46.199 only two. Right. 1537 01:40:46.279 --> 01:40:49.920 Well, I mean you do have the people in power 1538 01:40:50.039 --> 01:40:55.960 now who are using force. I mean, yeah, true, so Biden, 1539 01:40:56.359 --> 01:40:58.760 it's so pretty soft. Yeah well, I mean you're throwing 1540 01:40:58.800 --> 01:41:02.119 people in jail, and that's you're destroying people's lives, in 1541 01:41:02.159 --> 01:41:05.640 their livelihood and everything. A lot of people would rather 1542 01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:10.920 be dead than have that happened to them. But the 1543 01:41:11.520 --> 01:41:14.520 you know, you have to wonder what stage in civilization, 1544 01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:19.880 what stage in what stage in elite theory you are 1545 01:41:20.640 --> 01:41:23.159 when the foxes start to use. 1546 01:41:25.880 --> 01:41:30.520 Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess, you know, exiting the 1547 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:36.880 animal analogy, it's when they're sufficiently threatened or when they're 1548 01:41:36.920 --> 01:41:38.000 sufficiently fragile. 1549 01:41:38.840 --> 01:41:40.600 I think it's a fragility more than anything. 1550 01:41:41.319 --> 01:41:42.279 Yeah. 1551 01:41:42.359 --> 01:41:45.920 The residues of class two group persistence correspond to the 1552 01:41:45.960 --> 01:41:49.319 lions of Machiavelli. For those who exhibit a high proportion 1553 01:41:49.399 --> 01:41:54.079 of class two residues quoting are able and ready to 1554 01:41:54.239 --> 01:41:57.399 use force, relying on it rather than brains to solve 1555 01:41:57.439 --> 01:42:02.439 their problems. They are conservative, patriarch loyalty tradition, and solidly 1556 01:42:02.520 --> 01:42:06.319 tend super individual groups like family or church or nation, 1557 01:42:07.439 --> 01:42:08.680 where are these people. 1558 01:42:09.199 --> 01:42:12.079 I know who's going to cut the Gordian knot please. 1559 01:42:14.520 --> 01:42:15.880 I don't know who these people are. 1560 01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:20.680 I've heard about them from Class two. 1561 01:42:20.520 --> 01:42:24.199 Revenues or psychic forces that tend to sustain and perpetuate 1562 01:42:24.319 --> 01:42:29.079 existing combinations. They are sociologically conservative, while those of Class 1563 01:42:29.119 --> 01:42:34.800 one are sociologically innovative. That's an interesting word. A healthy elite, 1564 01:42:34.880 --> 01:42:38.359 according to Pereto, will have an equilibrium in the distribution 1565 01:42:38.439 --> 01:42:41.920 of these psychic types within it, but under certain conditions 1566 01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:46.239 an imbalance will result. That's what we're seeing now. That's 1567 01:42:46.279 --> 01:42:49.079 what that's that's what it is now because the ones 1568 01:42:49.119 --> 01:42:52.319 who would be the ones who would commit violence would 1569 01:42:52.359 --> 01:42:54.399 be the lions, and they have no lions. 1570 01:42:55.359 --> 01:43:00.920 Yeah, it's all foxes, yep. If the wall and seeing what. 1571 01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:05.760 See basically, Yeah, If too many Class two residues accrew 1572 01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:08.800 in the elite, it will rely excessively on force and 1573 01:43:08.880 --> 01:43:13.279 will fail to innovate and adapt to changing circumstances and challenges. 1574 01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:16.720 If too many Class one types come to predominate, as 1575 01:43:16.720 --> 01:43:19.840 Peretto believes was happening in the late nineteenth century, the 1576 01:43:19.920 --> 01:43:24.119 elite and its society will become soft, unstable, corrupt, and disorderly, 1577 01:43:24.439 --> 01:43:27.439 although the society may produce a very high level of 1578 01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:33.079 cultural expression. Oh now saying that. Worst of all, however, 1579 01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:36.279 the society will be unwilling and unable to use force 1580 01:43:36.319 --> 01:43:39.960 to protect itself from either internal external challenges. 1581 01:43:41.359 --> 01:43:44.239 Yeah. Well, I don't think we're anywhere like that. 1582 01:43:44.359 --> 01:43:49.039 Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, this, that's not here. While the 1583 01:43:49.079 --> 01:43:52.239 foxes of class one predominate in the elite, the lions 1584 01:43:52.279 --> 01:43:55.359 of class two are concentrated in the non elite and 1585 01:43:55.399 --> 01:43:58.199 may use force against the foxes in rebellion and other 1586 01:43:58.279 --> 01:44:02.880 forms of violence. External enemies may also commit aggression against 1587 01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:06.520 the societies ruled by foxes, and in any case, because 1588 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:10.279 of the lack of qualities of group persistence, a society 1589 01:44:10.359 --> 01:44:13.640 led by class one types will have few psychic resources 1590 01:44:13.640 --> 01:44:16.159 for mustering endurance and sacrifice. 1591 01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:21.039 Yeah that, there's no energy to direct in any type 1592 01:44:21.039 --> 01:44:23.359 of revolutionary social change. 1593 01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:27.800 Elites that are imbalanced by too many class one or 1594 01:44:27.840 --> 01:44:30.560 class two residues are unstable and are likely to be 1595 01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:34.039 overthrown or replaced. They tend to create the conditions that 1596 01:44:34.159 --> 01:44:36.960 lead to their fall from power. The rise and fall 1597 01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:40.159 of elites and changes in their composition Pereto called the 1598 01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:44.840 circulation of elites. Normally, a healthy elite will be in 1599 01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:49.359 continual but slow circulation, admitting new members and expelling or 1600 01:44:49.399 --> 01:44:54.199 ostracizing old and decament elements. When the circulation occurs too rapidly, 1601 01:44:54.319 --> 01:44:57.600 or when one elite is suddenly and entirely replaced by another, 1602 01:44:58.079 --> 01:45:01.840 the result is revolution the theory of. 1603 01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:02.439 Yeah, I guess that. 1604 01:45:02.920 --> 01:45:03.680 Yeah. 1605 01:45:03.760 --> 01:45:06.239 I mean, before this, I'd never heard it placed that way. 1606 01:45:06.279 --> 01:45:08.960 I've I've heard a lot of explanations for what constitutes 1607 01:45:09.000 --> 01:45:13.640 and what causes revolutionary social change. But I mean, I 1608 01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:16.800 guess you can. You can explain it in many different 1609 01:45:16.800 --> 01:45:20.039 ways and still come out with the same no right answer. 1610 01:45:20.920 --> 01:45:23.479 I think what we may be seeing now, and this 1611 01:45:23.600 --> 01:45:26.560 isn't an original idea. I don't remember who maybe heard 1612 01:45:26.560 --> 01:45:30.680 it from Orrin, is you have an overproduction of elites 1613 01:45:31.760 --> 01:45:36.520 because and I would say it's because the money supply 1614 01:45:36.600 --> 01:45:41.319 has been increased and expanded so far that you have 1615 01:45:41.479 --> 01:45:46.119 so many people that have acquired insane amounts of wealth. Yeah, 1616 01:45:46.119 --> 01:45:49.520 and they basically become elites, but they are not the 1617 01:45:49.640 --> 01:45:53.319 kind of They're not impressive at all. There. You know, 1618 01:45:53.439 --> 01:45:56.800 if you have too much of something, if you have 1619 01:45:56.960 --> 01:45:59.319 if you produce too much of something, and it happens 1620 01:45:59.359 --> 01:46:01.640 too fast. You know a lot of times you're just 1621 01:46:01.680 --> 01:46:03.279 going to have defects all over the place. 1622 01:46:04.039 --> 01:46:07.479 Yeah, if everybody's an elite, then nobody's an elite, and 1623 01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:08.399 you go from there. 1624 01:46:12.359 --> 01:46:15.199 The theory of elites, as developed by Moscow and Pareto 1625 01:46:15.520 --> 01:46:19.520 and endorsement expounded by Burnham, was by no means an 1626 01:46:19.640 --> 01:46:22.600 argument for the monopolization of power and privilege by an 1627 01:46:22.680 --> 01:46:27.439 established few. Indeed, Mosca and Pareto were emphatic that healthy 1628 01:46:27.439 --> 01:46:31.039 elites should alter in composition slowly and regularly, and that 1629 01:46:31.119 --> 01:46:37.119 they should not become homogeneous or monolithic. Mosca, in particular, 1630 01:46:37.159 --> 01:46:39.359 as well done these points and developed a method that 1631 01:46:39.399 --> 01:46:43.479 went beyond the descriptive analysis of Machiavelianism to a normative 1632 01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:47.119 mode of analysis by which elites and the societies they 1633 01:46:47.239 --> 01:46:52.680 ruled could be evaluated. Although the rule of elites unelected 1634 01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:57.159 and unrepresentative is inevitable, Mosca argued that the internal structure 1635 01:46:57.199 --> 01:47:01.600 of elites is an important means of distinguishing them. All societies, 1636 01:47:01.640 --> 01:47:06.039 according to Mosca, are composed of contending social forces, groups 1637 01:47:06.039 --> 01:47:13.199 that have interests and values associated with particular kinds of activities, agriculture, industry, education, religion, 1638 01:47:13.479 --> 01:47:17.399 the army, et cetera. Within these social forces, there are 1639 01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:23.520 hierarchies and differentiations of power, wealth, merit, or geographical locations. 1640 01:47:23.880 --> 01:47:27.000 The most significant social forces become part of the elite 1641 01:47:27.039 --> 01:47:30.199 and pursue their particular interests and values within it. 1642 01:47:31.560 --> 01:47:34.279 Yeah, I guess to a degree. I don't know if 1643 01:47:34.279 --> 01:47:41.319 that's particularly applicable now, but yeah, well, yeah, there are 1644 01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:45.079 the hierarchies have been flattened so much because, like you said, 1645 01:47:45.079 --> 01:47:49.600 we're over manufacturing. I mean, other than like you know, 1646 01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:51.920 the top levels of the state or the deep state 1647 01:47:52.039 --> 01:47:57.039 or whatever, or or the illuminati, like you know, the 1648 01:47:58.920 --> 01:48:01.640 everything below that is pretty much there's not a whole 1649 01:48:01.680 --> 01:48:05.960 lot of difference other than what industry they're in or 1650 01:48:06.079 --> 01:48:10.479 geographic location. That there's not really a whole lot of 1651 01:48:10.520 --> 01:48:12.079 difference in what defines them. 1652 01:48:14.640 --> 01:48:17.840 When, according to Mosca, there is a multiplicity of independent 1653 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:20.960 social forces within the elite or ruling class, such that 1654 01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:24.199 no one force has sufficient power to exclude or exploit 1655 01:48:24.239 --> 01:48:28.960 the others, then a de facto condition of juridical defense obtains. 1656 01:48:29.960 --> 01:48:33.560 Mosca's concept of juridical defense is approximate to what is 1657 01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:37.640 more generally known as the rule of law. Because of 1658 01:48:37.680 --> 01:48:41.279 the mutually balancing and restraining action of the social forces 1659 01:48:41.319 --> 01:48:44.439 in the ruling class, no single force or faction can 1660 01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:50.800 accumulate or exercise arbitrary irregular power. Each social force and 1661 01:48:50.840 --> 01:48:54.680 the groups and individuals composing or attached to it, protects 1662 01:48:54.680 --> 01:48:58.640 itself from exploitation by the checking power it holds against 1663 01:48:58.640 --> 01:49:03.439 the others. Even though this system of socio political checks 1664 01:49:03.800 --> 01:49:08.039 may not be formally reorganized in recognized in law, it 1665 01:49:08.079 --> 01:49:12.159 can still exist and be a substantive restraint on tyrannical power. 1666 01:49:13.079 --> 01:49:15.800 Yeah, there is kind of a parallel rule book for 1667 01:49:16.279 --> 01:49:19.119 when you hit a certain amount of asset value. 1668 01:49:20.560 --> 01:49:24.359 Mosca's concept of juridical defense owed much to both Machiavelli 1669 01:49:24.399 --> 01:49:27.039 and Montesque, as well as to the exponents of the 1670 01:49:27.079 --> 01:49:32.279 classical theory of the mixed constitution. Unlike Montisque, however, Mosca 1671 01:49:32.399 --> 01:49:34.840 did not limit his idea of checks and balances to 1672 01:49:34.880 --> 01:49:38.520 the formal and legalistic component of the government, but extended 1673 01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:42.600 it to the substantial, concrete or real component social forces 1674 01:49:42.880 --> 01:49:44.319 within a ruling class. 1675 01:49:45.119 --> 01:49:47.479 So that's another thing I see, and I don't know 1676 01:49:47.560 --> 01:49:50.520 to the degree that it affects you know, really rich 1677 01:49:50.600 --> 01:49:55.560 people that we would probably call elite. But the what 1678 01:49:55.720 --> 01:49:58.800 is it the mixed constitution idea where you have you 1679 01:49:58.880 --> 01:50:01.159 have the rule of law, but there's also other rules 1680 01:50:01.199 --> 01:50:05.560 that everybody kind of agrees to follow. That has been 1681 01:50:05.720 --> 01:50:09.880 just withering away on the vine on purpose. Everything is 1682 01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:16.720 legalistic now, everything is everything has to be codified into 1683 01:50:17.000 --> 01:50:20.760 an employee handbook or an HR department or something like that. 1684 01:50:20.840 --> 01:50:23.319 And I think that's a function of just managerialism. 1685 01:50:23.479 --> 01:50:30.880 Yeah, managerialism is so I mean, there's nothing more managerial 1686 01:50:31.399 --> 01:50:32.159 than law fair. 1687 01:50:32.720 --> 01:50:35.600 We were talking about how how pernicious law fair is 1688 01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:40.520 and just how how it's so common now for people 1689 01:50:40.560 --> 01:50:45.520 to weaponize bad faith interpretations of you know, contracts of laws, 1690 01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:49.399 of agreements, even informal ones, and that was kind of 1691 01:50:49.439 --> 01:50:52.520 never the case before. And I suspect it has something 1692 01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:57.239 to do with demographic changes and you know, the ripple 1693 01:50:57.279 --> 01:51:00.119 effect of them affecting you know, cultures that were or 1694 01:51:00.199 --> 01:51:04.479 otherwise you know, not exhibiting that behavior. But even amongst 1695 01:51:04.479 --> 01:51:08.840 our social class, you know, it's it's it's still it's 1696 01:51:08.840 --> 01:51:13.439 so pernicious now, where even five ten years ago, I 1697 01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:19.520 at least in my experience, everybody kind of agreed functionally 1698 01:51:19.560 --> 01:51:24.359 agreed on you know what, like what makes for an 1699 01:51:24.399 --> 01:51:28.680 agreement or a contract or you know, an address of grievance. 1700 01:51:29.520 --> 01:51:34.359 Yeah, once you start getting into you start importing all 1701 01:51:34.399 --> 01:51:37.520 sorts of different cultures, you just you're not You're not 1702 01:51:37.560 --> 01:51:39.159 going to have any unanimity. 1703 01:51:40.640 --> 01:51:43.079 And and I think it's also a function of just 1704 01:51:43.159 --> 01:51:46.000 the true economic state that we're in that despite what 1705 01:51:46.039 --> 01:51:49.479 the graphs say, I don't have the luxury of you know, 1706 01:51:49.640 --> 01:51:54.000 risking five thousand dollars deposit with a shittily written contract 1707 01:51:54.439 --> 01:51:56.199 that I may or may not get back if you 1708 01:51:56.239 --> 01:51:58.560 don't show up, because now I have to worry about that. 1709 01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:02.840 This departure from the formal to the real was part 1710 01:52:02.880 --> 01:52:06.680 of the Machiavelian tradition, and Moscaw thus welded it to 1711 01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:11.640 the classical tradition of mixed constitution. In Burnham's words, juridical 1712 01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:15.039 defense can be secure only where there are at work 1713 01:52:15.159 --> 01:52:19.600 various in opposing tendencies and forces, and where these mutually 1714 01:52:19.680 --> 01:52:24.600 check and restrain each other. The product of juridical defense 1715 01:52:24.760 --> 01:52:28.720 is liberty. The specific forms of juridical defense include the 1716 01:52:28.760 --> 01:52:34.199 familiar democratic rights, security of private property, security, against arbitrary arrest, 1717 01:52:34.359 --> 01:52:40.640 freedom of religion, discussion, and assembly. Moreover, the multiplicity of 1718 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:44.079 social forces participating and sharing power in the ruling class 1719 01:52:44.159 --> 01:52:48.119 leads to a high level of civilization and an efflorescence 1720 01:52:48.479 --> 01:52:49.600 of cultural life. 1721 01:52:50.840 --> 01:52:54.199 Yes, because in order that, in order for that to flourish, 1722 01:52:54.239 --> 01:52:56.800 there has to be something outside the state. And I 1723 01:52:56.800 --> 01:53:00.119 think that's the commonly accepted definition of liberty, which is 1724 01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:04.439 kind of anything outside of the public anything in like, 1725 01:53:04.520 --> 01:53:07.760 any informal actions you take is an act of liberty. 1726 01:53:08.279 --> 01:53:11.479 And uh like there's you know, it may not it 1727 01:53:11.520 --> 01:53:14.840 may not be formalized into law, but it's it's definitely 1728 01:53:15.079 --> 01:53:20.439 uh a cultural change where that particular type of liberty, 1729 01:53:20.479 --> 01:53:23.600 the important type of liberty that we like is uh 1730 01:53:24.359 --> 01:53:28.479 just going away now in a in an informal manner. 1731 01:53:29.560 --> 01:53:33.279 By way of contrast, the monopolization of power by one 1732 01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:36.399 social force leads to its unchecked power and to a 1733 01:53:36.439 --> 01:53:41.680 low level of civilization as other social forces with other resources, values, 1734 01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:47.159 and skills are excluded and exploited. Using the concept of 1735 01:53:47.239 --> 01:53:50.960 juridical defense and its antithesis, Moscow was able to evaluate 1736 01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:54.640 different kinds of polities depending on the internal structure and 1737 01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:58.479 composition of their elites. The worst kind of government would 1738 01:53:58.520 --> 01:54:01.600 be the uniform regimes in which the unrestrained power of 1739 01:54:01.640 --> 01:54:05.479 a single social force prevents all others from obtaining power 1740 01:54:05.840 --> 01:54:09.840 and distributing to the public culture. The best kind of 1741 01:54:09.880 --> 01:54:13.479 government to both Mosca and Pereto was the representative, middle 1742 01:54:13.479 --> 01:54:18.199 class aristocratic parliamentary governments of the mid to late nineteenth century. 1743 01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:22.600 This type, however, was threatened by the rise of mass democracy, 1744 01:54:22.920 --> 01:54:28.039 new classes of wealth and power, and socialism yeah yeah. 1745 01:54:28.079 --> 01:54:32.039 These forces, to both Mosca and Pereto, threaten to upset 1746 01:54:32.079 --> 01:54:36.319 the delicate balance that underlies the juridical defense and to 1747 01:54:36.399 --> 01:54:42.960 impose a monolithic regime on modern society. It should be 1748 01:54:43.079 --> 01:54:46.880 noted that this normative measure of governments is fundamentally modern, 1749 01:54:47.119 --> 01:54:50.800 and as such it follows Machiavelli and Monuscue. The best 1750 01:54:50.840 --> 01:54:53.439 regime to Moscow and Pereto is not that in which 1751 01:54:53.479 --> 01:54:56.079 the virtue of the citizen is most developed, but that 1752 01:54:56.199 --> 01:54:58.760 in which the security and liberty of the citizen and 1753 01:54:58.800 --> 01:55:03.279 the commonwealth are best partus. Although Mosca and the Machiavelians 1754 01:55:03.319 --> 01:55:06.960 were influenced by Aristotle, Cicero, and the pre modern tradition 1755 01:55:07.039 --> 01:55:10.680 of political thought. Their primary concern was not, as with 1756 01:55:10.760 --> 01:55:14.800 the earlier school, the ethical realization of man and society. 1757 01:55:15.600 --> 01:55:19.680 The special contribution of the Machiavelian tradition, however, is the 1758 01:55:19.800 --> 01:55:23.960 establishment of a criterion of normative judgment of regimes based 1759 01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:27.399 on empirical rather than on transcendental grounds. 1760 01:55:29.399 --> 01:55:33.640 Yeah, I think dey'll notche would disagree with that slightly. 1761 01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:39.159 Burnham accepted this Machiavelian formulation and its fundamental to his 1762 01:55:39.520 --> 01:55:44.119 entire career as a political thinker. His primary concern, like Machiavelli's, 1763 01:55:44.279 --> 01:55:48.560 was to establish a verifiable methodology for the analysis of 1764 01:55:48.640 --> 01:55:52.000 social and political affairs, but he was also concerned to 1765 01:55:52.079 --> 01:55:57.199 discover a realistic means of evaluating judging political institutions and behavior. 1766 01:56:01.359 --> 01:56:04.159 Oh nothing, this is just explaining kind of the etymology 1767 01:56:04.199 --> 01:56:08.640 of how we came to regard regimes. 1768 01:56:09.640 --> 01:56:13.880 He found both in the Machiavelians, and it was the 1769 01:56:14.079 --> 01:56:18.079 limitation of power that remained for him the primary political ideal, 1770 01:56:18.920 --> 01:56:22.199 quoting the Machiavelians are the only ones who have told 1771 01:56:22.279 --> 01:56:25.840 us the full truth about power. The primary object in 1772 01:56:25.920 --> 01:56:29.119 practice of all rulers is to serve their own interests, 1773 01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:33.079 to maintain their own power and privilege. No theory, no promises, 1774 01:56:33.119 --> 01:56:37.479 no morality, no amount of goodwill, no religion will restrain power. 1775 01:56:38.000 --> 01:56:41.880 Neither priests nor soldiers, neither labor leaders nor businessmen, neither 1776 01:56:41.880 --> 01:56:44.800 bureaucrats nor feudal lords will differ from each other in 1777 01:56:44.880 --> 01:56:47.800 the basic use which they will seek to make of power. 1778 01:56:48.479 --> 01:56:53.239 Only power restrains power. When all opposition is destroyed, there 1779 01:56:53.319 --> 01:56:55.800 is no longer any limit to what power may do. 1780 01:56:56.439 --> 01:57:00.880 A despotism, any kind of despotism, can be evolent only 1781 01:57:00.960 --> 01:57:01.720 by accident. 1782 01:57:04.199 --> 01:57:09.560 Yeah, we'll see. I think, uh, I think this assumes 1783 01:57:09.600 --> 01:57:14.479 that uh, you know, it assumes a base uh human nature, 1784 01:57:15.720 --> 01:57:18.399 even amongst the elites that I don't know if is 1785 01:57:18.399 --> 01:57:22.840 applicable today, especially you know, given given the uh just 1786 01:57:22.880 --> 01:57:26.119 a radical departure and competence from his time to ours, 1787 01:57:26.359 --> 01:57:28.880 and then also kind of the growth of uh, you 1788 01:57:28.920 --> 01:57:31.479 know ai ai assistance. 1789 01:57:32.520 --> 01:57:35.800 In the managerial revolution. Burnham had developed a model for 1790 01:57:36.039 --> 01:57:40.760 explanation of current world events, the depression, the rise of totalitarianism, 1791 01:57:40.800 --> 01:57:45.000 revolutionary changes in social and economic structure, political behavior, and 1792 01:57:45.079 --> 01:57:51.079 intellectual and cultural fermentation. The chief problem with his presentation 1793 01:57:51.199 --> 01:57:53.680 of the theory of the manager or revolution was its 1794 01:57:53.720 --> 01:57:58.439 over reliance on Marxist economic determinism and analogies drawn from 1795 01:57:58.439 --> 01:58:03.399 the Marxist interpretation of history. The Machiavelians, however, were not 1796 01:58:03.600 --> 01:58:07.319 economic determinists, and their interpretation of history was far more 1797 01:58:07.359 --> 01:58:12.079 flexible than that of marx. Burnham therefore undertook to restate 1798 01:58:12.119 --> 01:58:14.600 the theory of the managerial revolution in terms of the 1799 01:58:14.640 --> 01:58:21.159 Machiavelian analytical framework. According to the Machiavelian model, an elite 1800 01:58:21.279 --> 01:58:25.119 or ruling class suffers a crisis of power under certain circumstances. 1801 01:58:25.720 --> 01:58:31.239 Burnham retained in the Machiavelians the essentially economic definition of 1802 01:58:31.279 --> 01:58:35.279 the old elite as a capitalist, bourgeois or entrepreneurial class 1803 01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:39.199 that owned and operated the means of production. However, the 1804 01:58:39.239 --> 01:58:42.479 economic forces and relationships were not the central factors in 1805 01:58:42.520 --> 01:58:45.119 bringing about the crisis of the old elite and the 1806 01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:49.079 rise of a new one. The rise of new social forces, 1807 01:58:49.439 --> 01:58:54.199 especially technological developments, over which the capitalist or entrepreneurial elite 1808 01:58:54.239 --> 01:58:59.159 has no control, has made its institutions and ideologies obsolete 1809 01:58:59.399 --> 01:59:05.279 and less useful for preserving its power. The old elite 1810 01:59:05.359 --> 01:59:10.800 has also undergone a psychological, intellectual, and moral denigration degeneration. 1811 01:59:11.920 --> 01:59:15.119 It shows little faith in its own ideology and institutions, 1812 01:59:15.159 --> 01:59:19.520 and it exhibits Mosca's aristocratic tendency and a crystallization of 1813 01:59:19.560 --> 01:59:27.039 its membership, interests and activities instead of a dynamic, innovative expansion. Finally, 1814 01:59:27.319 --> 01:59:31.840 the entrepreneurial elite is tending to abandon political and professional 1815 01:59:31.880 --> 01:59:36.520 pursuits in favor of cultural and leisure activities. It is 1816 01:59:36.640 --> 01:59:41.520 drawn to humanitarian and irrationalist ideologies that undermine its own rule, 1817 01:59:41.880 --> 01:59:44.880 and it shows an increasing reluctance and inability to use 1818 01:59:44.960 --> 01:59:49.560 force effectively. The Class one or fox like residues of 1819 01:59:49.600 --> 01:59:55.680 Paretto are accumulating too heavily in the entrepreneurial elite. In 1820 01:59:55.720 --> 02:00:00.119 opposition to these signs of decadence is the aggressive, efficient, dynamic, 1821 02:00:00.239 --> 02:00:04.560 and sometimes fanatical character of the rising managerial class. It's 1822 02:00:04.600 --> 02:00:10.000 self a new social force, quoting from the machiavelians, the 1823 02:00:10.039 --> 02:00:14.279 production executives and organizers of the industrial process, officials trained 1824 02:00:14.319 --> 02:00:18.439 in the manipulation of the great labor organizations, and the administrators, 1825 02:00:18.680 --> 02:00:21.880 bureau chiefs and commissaurs developed in the executive branch of 1826 02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:25.439 the unlimited modern state machines, And that the and that 1827 02:00:25.520 --> 02:00:29.239 the managers may function. The economic and political structure must 1828 02:00:29.279 --> 02:00:33.079 be modified, as it is now being modified, so as 1829 02:00:33.119 --> 02:00:36.039 to rest no longer on private ownership and small scale 1830 02:00:36.159 --> 02:00:40.119 nationalist sovereignty, but primarily upon state control of the economy 1831 02:00:40.159 --> 02:00:44.199 and continental or vast regional world political organization. 1832 02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:48.520 Yeah. I mean, I don't know about all that, but 1833 02:00:48.840 --> 02:00:51.920 I think we were talking about this yesterday. The line 1834 02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:56.560 between ownership and control is continually being blurred. And that's 1835 02:00:56.760 --> 02:00:58.640 one of the one of the ways you know that 1836 02:00:58.680 --> 02:01:01.439 we live in a managerial state. It is, you know, 1837 02:01:01.560 --> 02:01:05.399 the the owner of my business has very little control 1838 02:01:05.439 --> 02:01:07.960 over it other than the hiring and firing of me, 1839 02:01:09.039 --> 02:01:14.479 and like, I pretty much make command decisions every day 1840 02:01:14.600 --> 02:01:17.800 in his stead, and he gives me the like his 1841 02:01:17.880 --> 02:01:20.760 only function is to provide capital and give me the 1842 02:01:20.800 --> 02:01:24.880 thumbs up or the thumbs down. And that's not a 1843 02:01:25.239 --> 02:01:28.000 capitalist definition of ownership at all. 1844 02:01:28.479 --> 02:01:31.239 Yeah, Viveka has been talking about this when it comes 1845 02:01:31.319 --> 02:01:34.680 to the president. He said that anybody who gets elected 1846 02:01:34.680 --> 02:01:38.319 should be in charge. So the person who gets elected, 1847 02:01:38.359 --> 02:01:40.840 I mean, and let's face it, he uses the term 1848 02:01:40.880 --> 02:01:43.319 managerial all the time. He talks about, you know, how 1849 02:01:43.359 --> 02:01:46.239 we're a managerial state. He's read Burnham, he knows all 1850 02:01:46.239 --> 02:01:46.520 of this. 1851 02:01:47.119 --> 02:01:50.239 And yeah, it's just how how when when you have 1852 02:01:50.319 --> 02:01:57.319 such a complex technologically complex and and personnel, Uh, I 1853 02:01:57.319 --> 02:02:01.000 guess he humanly complex and to he like, you know, 1854 02:02:01.039 --> 02:02:04.640 the the executive branch. How how how does the president 1855 02:02:05.119 --> 02:02:06.279 exercise ownership? 1856 02:02:06.680 --> 02:02:10.520 Well, he has to be able to basically be able 1857 02:02:10.560 --> 02:02:12.159 to hire and fire whoever he wants. 1858 02:02:13.399 --> 02:02:16.039 Yeah, yep, yeah, that's part of it. Absolutely. I think 1859 02:02:16.039 --> 02:02:19.600 that's the best you can do. You know, going back 1860 02:02:19.640 --> 02:02:24.359 to Charles Haywood's episode on on Elon Musk, Elon Musk 1861 02:02:24.399 --> 02:02:28.279 will walk walk around a plant and make it no 1862 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:32.000 less than a hundred command decisions during that visit, and 1863 02:02:32.119 --> 02:02:35.479 like that's how he actually exercises ownership to whatever degree, 1864 02:02:36.119 --> 02:02:40.119 you know, the physical limitations of time give him and 1865 02:02:41.560 --> 02:02:43.439 so like he's kind of a different beast too. 1866 02:02:44.079 --> 02:02:47.840 Yeah, No, he needs the person needs to be in charge, 1867 02:02:47.920 --> 02:02:50.960 needs to FDR is the perfect example of it. FDR 1868 02:02:51.119 --> 02:02:55.319 was a king. He was a dictator. All the power rested, 1869 02:02:55.399 --> 02:02:58.520 all the power in the government rested in him. Nobody 1870 02:02:58.560 --> 02:03:04.119 did anything any thing without his say. So this vast 1871 02:03:04.119 --> 02:03:07.600 reorganization will require the use of force, military machines, and 1872 02:03:07.680 --> 02:03:11.880 soldiers far more than did the old capitalist society. Hence, 1873 02:03:11.920 --> 02:03:14.800 the ruling class of managers will include more allions or 1874 02:03:14.840 --> 02:03:19.039 Class two residues than did the entrepreneurial elite. The political 1875 02:03:19.039 --> 02:03:22.720 formula of the managers will be democratists and will appeal 1876 02:03:22.760 --> 02:03:25.399 to the emotions and material once of the masses, but 1877 02:03:25.439 --> 02:03:31.079 the political reality will be autoautocracy, what Burnham calls bonapartism, 1878 02:03:31.399 --> 02:03:35.039 represented by the Nazi, Stalinist and New Deal political style 1879 02:03:35.079 --> 02:03:41.359 and ideologies will prevail over the constitutionalist, decentralized parliamentary governments 1880 02:03:41.479 --> 02:03:42.680 of the capitalist era. 1881 02:03:44.159 --> 02:03:49.560 Yeah, that's you know that the ignorance of managerialism as 1882 02:03:49.600 --> 02:03:53.359 the defining feature of our time right now is really 1883 02:03:53.560 --> 02:03:58.520 the biggest obstacle towards getting the normies to at least 1884 02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:03.119 a little bit closer to being able to effectively analyze reality. 1885 02:04:06.079 --> 02:04:08.119 Ideology stands in the way of that. 1886 02:04:10.039 --> 02:04:13.199 Yeah, and it doesn't have to, because most normies aren't 1887 02:04:13.319 --> 02:04:16.319 ideological either. They just don't know this. We need to. 1888 02:04:16.399 --> 02:04:20.319 We need to wake them up, bro, And like, not 1889 02:04:20.319 --> 02:04:22.800 not because you know, we we hope to seize power anything, 1890 02:04:22.840 --> 02:04:24.600 but just because it's it's the right thing to do. 1891 02:04:24.960 --> 02:04:27.520 Well. AA makes makes a point in this book that 1892 02:04:28.439 --> 02:04:31.079 if you wake up, then if the normies get get 1893 02:04:31.079 --> 02:04:33.279 waken woken up too much and too many of them 1894 02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:39.159 get woken up, then you suffer the you suffer revolution. Yeah. 1895 02:04:39.159 --> 02:04:42.600 And we're not talking We're talking about France, not not American. 1896 02:04:43.960 --> 02:04:45.279 Yeah. 1897 02:04:45.520 --> 02:04:49.560 The tendency of bonapartism and of the managerial class is totalitarian. 1898 02:04:50.159 --> 02:04:53.279 The managers want, need, and find valuable a state that 1899 02:04:53.399 --> 02:04:58.039 is unitary and all powerful. Intermediary and non political institutions 1900 02:04:58.039 --> 02:05:00.920 and groups are denounced and undermined if they do not 1901 02:05:00.960 --> 02:05:05.000 support the rising managerial powers. Not only does the managerial 1902 02:05:05.039 --> 02:05:08.119 class need an extended and oipotent state for its own 1903 02:05:08.239 --> 02:05:12.359 internal and international policies and goals, but also the crisis 1904 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:15.920 of the Depression and the Second World War gives it 1905 02:05:16.000 --> 02:05:21.560 the opportunity to create one. Hence managerial propaganda. It denounces 1906 02:05:21.600 --> 02:05:26.960 the entrepreneurial class and its supportive institutions churches, non politicized 1907 02:05:27.000 --> 02:05:33.199 labor unions, small businessmen, schools, the opposition press, local political institutions, 1908 02:05:33.359 --> 02:05:37.560 the Congress itself, and seeks to portray them as reactionary, 1909 02:05:37.760 --> 02:05:41.800 parochial and responsible for the present crisis and its misery 1910 02:05:43.159 --> 02:05:47.800 only by destroying and moving beyond these obsolescent forces, can 1911 02:05:47.840 --> 02:05:54.680 the crisis be resolved? Burnham was not happy. Do we 1912 02:05:54.720 --> 02:06:05.560 stop there? I mean, you just describe reality. Bro Burnham 1913 02:06:05.600 --> 02:06:09.479 was not happy about the totaltarian vector of managerial society 1914 02:06:10.039 --> 02:06:15.760 private capitalist ownership of the economy. He wrote, quote meant 1915 02:06:15.800 --> 02:06:19.399 a dispersion of economic power and a partial separation between 1916 02:06:19.399 --> 02:06:22.880 economic and other social forces in a manner that prevented 1917 02:06:22.920 --> 02:06:27.880 the concentration of an overwhelming single social force. Today, the 1918 02:06:27.920 --> 02:06:32.239 advance of the managerial revolution is everywhere, concentrating economic power 1919 02:06:32.239 --> 02:06:35.199 in the state apparatus, where it tends to unite with 1920 02:06:35.279 --> 02:06:41.520 control over the other great social forces, the army, education, labor, law, 1921 02:06:41.720 --> 02:06:46.680 the political bureaucracy, art and science. Even this development too, 1922 02:06:47.479 --> 02:06:52.239 soci especially now, Yeah, this development too tends to destroy 1923 02:06:52.319 --> 02:06:56.439 the basis for those social oppositions that keep freedom alive 1924 02:06:58.720 --> 02:07:04.000 the entrepreneur. The entrepreneurs are therefore correct to argue that 1925 02:07:04.039 --> 02:07:07.119 the New Deal and other managerial policies were a threat 1926 02:07:07.199 --> 02:07:11.640 to freedom. But the entrepreneurial former formulas of market capitalism, 1927 02:07:11.800 --> 02:07:15.920 a limited state, and national sovereignty had lost their credibility 1928 02:07:16.680 --> 02:07:20.359 in any case. The debate between the conservatives see that's 1929 02:07:20.359 --> 02:07:23.239 something that people just don't realize. People who are for 1930 02:07:23.439 --> 02:07:29.000 market capitalism, a limited state, and national sovereignty understand that. 1931 02:07:30.159 --> 02:07:32.520 They don't. They're not willing to accept that. It's lost 1932 02:07:32.560 --> 02:07:35.680 their credibility and they they think. 1933 02:07:35.520 --> 02:07:39.119 That they don't understand where we are right now in history. 1934 02:07:39.159 --> 02:07:42.520 They don't know where they're at. We're past that where 1935 02:07:42.520 --> 02:07:45.199 you're now, and like those days are over, they're not 1936 02:07:45.239 --> 02:07:45.680 coming back. 1937 02:07:45.760 --> 02:07:49.960 Yeah, and to constantly you know, it's well, no, this 1938 02:07:50.039 --> 02:07:51.520 is the way things are done, this is the way 1939 02:07:51.560 --> 02:07:54.119 things should be. That this is what guarantees the most 1940 02:07:54.159 --> 02:07:57.399 individual freedom. Bro, we're beyond it. 1941 02:07:57.640 --> 02:07:57.840 Yeah. 1942 02:07:57.880 --> 02:07:58.239 Freedom. 1943 02:07:58.840 --> 02:08:00.439 My favorite question for them to. 1944 02:08:00.399 --> 02:08:05.279 Do, what freedom to do? What I had I wouldn't 1945 02:08:05.279 --> 02:08:07.800 even say who it was, but I had a libertarian 1946 02:08:07.880 --> 02:08:11.039 in my d MS today it's just freaking out. He's like, 1947 02:08:11.680 --> 02:08:15.319 why are there so many libertarians who argue for like 1948 02:08:15.520 --> 02:08:21.079 that the most heinous stuff and stuff that's illegal and 1949 02:08:21.119 --> 02:08:23.600 not only illegal, but would be considered immoral by the 1950 02:08:23.640 --> 02:08:28.000 majority of the West at least, is okay? 1951 02:08:29.680 --> 02:08:32.520 Well, they they took a legal theory and turned it 1952 02:08:32.520 --> 02:08:35.560 into an ideology. Like somebody said that in one of 1953 02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:37.279 the threads. I was like, yeah, pretty much Dave. 1954 02:08:37.439 --> 02:08:39.159 Dave had a thread today said that. 1955 02:08:40.239 --> 02:08:42.680 Yeah, yeah, it was Dave. Yeah, you took a legal 1956 02:08:42.720 --> 02:08:45.000 theory like a dry what's supposed to be a dry 1957 02:08:45.520 --> 02:08:49.159 not fun legal theory, and turn it into your entire identity, 1958 02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:53.279 like good job. You are just a piece of human 1959 02:08:53.319 --> 02:08:57.239 trash that will never Yeah, and you will until until you. 1960 02:08:57.119 --> 02:09:03.600 Stop and the inevitable end of your of your theoretical 1961 02:09:04.039 --> 02:09:08.239 whatever is talking about whether possession of childborn is a crime. 1962 02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:11.960 Yeah, And that's why, like if if they were, I 1963 02:09:12.000 --> 02:09:14.079 shouldn't say they're pieces of trash that will never amount 1964 02:09:14.119 --> 02:09:16.800 to anything, because then I just wouldn't care. But it's 1965 02:09:16.840 --> 02:09:22.159 the the the proactive part of libertarianism is making sure 1966 02:09:22.199 --> 02:09:26.520 that you and more importantly, your children are propagandas to that. 1967 02:09:26.800 --> 02:09:29.359 And they're just you know, they're not as bad as 1968 02:09:29.439 --> 02:09:32.479 leftists because they don't hold any power whatsoever. They're just 1969 02:09:33.239 --> 02:09:35.680 like I wouldn't I wouldn't let them babysit my kids. 1970 02:09:35.840 --> 02:09:38.520 Well, I think the biggest problem with it is is 1971 02:09:38.560 --> 02:09:42.960 that these free market principles, and these these free principles 1972 02:09:43.039 --> 02:09:49.439 are so easily the language of that is so easily 1973 02:09:49.479 --> 02:09:52.520 adopted by people in power, and then. 1974 02:09:52.840 --> 02:09:54.760 It's it's so Jewish. 1975 02:09:55.640 --> 02:10:00.680 It's so easily adopted by people in power who will say, oh, 1976 02:10:00.680 --> 02:10:04.239 look we have free trade, and it's like, well, no, 1977 02:10:04.439 --> 02:10:05.880 but that's not real free trade. 1978 02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:09.880 We're shipping in, Yeah, we're we're shipping in sex toys 1979 02:10:09.880 --> 02:10:10.640 for your toddler. 1980 02:10:10.920 --> 02:10:13.880 Yeah. And then and then free trade has never been tried. 1981 02:10:13.920 --> 02:10:16.239 Why are you using that term? And it's like, well, 1982 02:10:17.199 --> 02:10:20.279 because it's so easily everything, everything you come up with 1983 02:10:20.359 --> 02:10:21.680 canon will be used against you. 1984 02:10:23.159 --> 02:10:26.800 Yeah, yep, everything will be manipulated, which, you know, if 1985 02:10:27.039 --> 02:10:29.640 they want to know how, then they should watch this episode. 1986 02:10:31.039 --> 02:10:34.079 In any case, the debate between the conservative spokesman for 1987 02:10:34.159 --> 02:10:37.720 the old line capitalist class and the Marxist and the 1988 02:10:37.760 --> 02:10:41.840 democratics utalitarians who defend the rising managerial class as a 1989 02:10:41.880 --> 02:10:46.119 debate and ideology and myths that express a contest for 1990 02:10:46.239 --> 02:10:51.720 control over the despotic and bonapartist political order, which they 1991 02:10:51.760 --> 02:10:56.840 both anticipate. The apologists for the managers would destroy all 1992 02:10:56.880 --> 02:11:01.199 liberty and juridical defense in pursuit of utapianism, and the 1993 02:11:01.239 --> 02:11:05.119 apologists of traditional capitalism are simply whistling in the wind. 1994 02:11:05.199 --> 02:11:09.119 For quote, it is in any case impossible to return 1995 02:11:09.199 --> 02:11:11.960 to private capitalism. 1996 02:11:12.239 --> 02:11:15.520 See, yeah, I mean one thing I have to hand 1997 02:11:15.560 --> 02:11:20.319 it to, you know, uh, whether conscious or not Malthusians 1998 02:11:20.600 --> 02:11:28.039 is that they're not utopian. I gotta respect him for 1999 02:11:28.119 --> 02:11:31.359 that what everybody else seems to be and maybe quote 2000 02:11:31.359 --> 02:11:36.520 of the episode, Hey, at least they're not utopian yet. 2001 02:11:36.520 --> 02:11:40.199 Burnham was not entirely pessimistic about the survival of some liberty. 2002 02:11:40.479 --> 02:11:43.920 He suggested that some social opposition might persist or develop, 2003 02:11:44.000 --> 02:11:46.720 the would or develop that would create a balance of 2004 02:11:46.760 --> 02:11:49.680 forces in the managerial elite, and he also hoped that 2005 02:11:49.720 --> 02:11:52.640 the principles of the Machiavelian science of power would inform 2006 02:11:52.680 --> 02:11:55.760 the new ruling class of its real interests and of 2007 02:11:55.800 --> 02:11:59.479 the utility of liberty. Now, anybody who's like out there, 2008 02:12:00.279 --> 02:12:03.960 anybody who's out there promoting liberty and everything, just read 2009 02:12:03.960 --> 02:12:05.600 that and went that's me. 2010 02:12:10.159 --> 02:12:13.920 Yeah, it's uh, it's very much limited to utilitarianism. And 2011 02:12:13.960 --> 02:12:19.800 that's also kind of a product of man. Uh, the 2012 02:12:20.199 --> 02:12:29.279 shift to utilitarian I guess utilitarian metaphysics is is a 2013 02:12:29.319 --> 02:12:35.279 product of the rise of revolutionary Marxism and that energy 2014 02:12:35.279 --> 02:12:39.760 being transferred, the revolutionary energy being transferred into the managerial class. 2015 02:12:40.520 --> 02:12:45.439 They're all it's all utility. How many utils will will 2016 02:12:45.439 --> 02:12:48.880 you generate if I give you a stimmy check? Oh? 2017 02:12:48.960 --> 02:12:52.399 Well a utils? Okay, you're getting a stemmy check. How 2018 02:12:52.439 --> 02:12:54.720 many utils will I generate if I put a bullet 2019 02:12:54.720 --> 02:12:55.159 in your head? 2020 02:12:57.800 --> 02:13:02.279 M He developed allan defense of liberty and juridical defense 2021 02:13:02.319 --> 02:13:05.840 on the grounds that they actually enhanced the cohesion, strength, 2022 02:13:05.880 --> 02:13:12.439 and flexibility of a society, rather than limited the Machiavellians problem. 2023 02:13:12.640 --> 02:13:17.239 Probably Burnham's most widely misunderstood book. George Orwell appears to 2024 02:13:17.279 --> 02:13:19.640 have seen it in a blueprint for the Double Think 2025 02:13:19.720 --> 02:13:25.319 of nineteen eighty four. The sociologist David Spitz took a 2026 02:13:25.359 --> 02:13:28.239 similar view of the book and included Burnham as an 2027 02:13:28.279 --> 02:13:33.279 anti democratic ideologue. The very subtitle of Burnham's book, Defenders 2028 02:13:33.279 --> 02:13:37.960 of Freedom, should be sufficient to refute this misinterpretation, and 2029 02:13:38.039 --> 02:13:39.880 it may be that some critics of the book have 2030 02:13:40.000 --> 02:13:42.600 not read far beyond the subtitle. 2031 02:13:43.479 --> 02:13:46.000 That's me, that's me. 2032 02:13:46.159 --> 02:13:48.680 With every book, it is true that Burnham described the 2033 02:13:48.720 --> 02:13:51.960 coming society and the starkest language. Yet this style is 2034 02:13:52.000 --> 02:13:55.880 typical of Machiavelli and his disciples, and is appropriate to 2035 02:13:55.920 --> 02:14:00.399 their claim to realism and disavowal of ideology and sent cements. 2036 02:14:01.840 --> 02:14:05.920 So I've actually never read The Machiavelians. But does Burnham 2037 02:14:06.239 --> 02:14:11.079 adopt a different style than say, The Managerial Revolution, Like, 2038 02:14:11.880 --> 02:14:13.479 is it a noticeably different tone? 2039 02:14:14.520 --> 02:14:16.800 Well, no, he has a very distinct way of writing. 2040 02:14:17.000 --> 02:14:19.039 I mean, if you if you read The Managerial Revolution, 2041 02:14:19.119 --> 02:14:20.600 you read Suicide of the West. I mean it's the 2042 02:14:20.640 --> 02:14:23.000 same you know, it's the same person writing it. 2043 02:14:24.159 --> 02:14:26.760 All right, all right, I thought I thought he switched 2044 02:14:26.800 --> 02:14:29.319 up his tone, which would be insane. 2045 02:14:29.159 --> 02:14:33.640 That would be nuts. It is difficult to see how 2046 02:14:33.680 --> 02:14:36.960 any familiarity with the contents and arguments of The Machiavelians 2047 02:14:36.960 --> 02:14:40.600 could overlook Burnham's exposition of the theory of juridical defense, 2048 02:14:41.000 --> 02:14:45.319 his criticism of managerial political tendencies, or his own defensive liberty. 2049 02:14:45.640 --> 02:14:48.239 The fact that many critics have missed these points suggest 2050 02:14:48.279 --> 02:14:52.079 that Burnham's discussion of ideology applies to the authors of 2051 02:14:52.119 --> 02:14:59.800 such criticism. And that's what mister Samuel Francis had to 2052 02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:01.720 say about The Mafia Villans. 2053 02:15:02.880 --> 02:15:06.439 Yeah, No, I mean it's I like these kind of 2054 02:15:06.439 --> 02:15:11.000 critiques that aren't really critiques, it's just an an exposition 2055 02:15:11.119 --> 02:15:15.840 of it. And I I try to do that myself 2056 02:15:15.880 --> 02:15:19.560 with some original works, and it never works so well 2057 02:15:19.560 --> 02:15:22.159 for me because I'm just not that eloquent. 2058 02:15:23.159 --> 02:15:26.479 Now it's. 2059 02:15:26.520 --> 02:15:33.079 I do podcast reviews in Milwaukee tool reviews. 2060 02:15:34.279 --> 02:15:36.239 It's one of those books that when you read it, 2061 02:15:36.279 --> 02:15:36.920 you're going to have. 2062 02:15:37.479 --> 02:15:37.800 Yeah. 2063 02:15:38.039 --> 02:15:40.119 It's one of those books that if you're a if 2064 02:15:40.119 --> 02:15:45.680 you're a hardcore ideologue, you may not read. You may 2065 02:15:45.680 --> 02:15:48.560 not get it the first time. Yeah, you may have. 2066 02:15:49.319 --> 02:15:50.760 It's one of those things that a couple of years 2067 02:15:50.760 --> 02:15:53.279 down the line, maybe something that was like somebody told 2068 02:15:53.319 --> 02:15:56.359 me at the beginning of twenty nineteen to read Jarvin's 2069 02:15:56.399 --> 02:15:59.239 Why I'm Not a Libertarian? And I read it, and 2070 02:15:59.279 --> 02:16:01.159 I'm like, a couple of good points in here. I 2071 02:16:01.159 --> 02:16:05.399 don't care. Twenty twenty rolls around. Yeah, twenty twenty rolls around. 2072 02:16:06.479 --> 02:16:10.199 Everything happens. We start getting into the summer, yeah, and 2073 02:16:10.439 --> 02:16:15.319 you know, cities are on fire, and you know, I'm like, yeah, 2074 02:16:15.399 --> 02:16:19.680 let me read that again. And I'm like, oh, oh, oh, yeah, okay, 2075 02:16:19.880 --> 02:16:21.920 And then I read it again like a year ago, 2076 02:16:21.960 --> 02:16:24.279 and I was just like, this is this makes more 2077 02:16:24.359 --> 02:16:27.399 sense than anything than anything I've ever read as far 2078 02:16:27.479 --> 02:16:31.159 as a critique of a critique of libertarianism. 2079 02:16:31.840 --> 02:16:34.600 I did try to I did try to crack the 2080 02:16:34.600 --> 02:16:38.319 managerial uh not the Machiavellians back in the day when 2081 02:16:38.399 --> 02:16:42.280 Jarvin was talking about it, and I couldn't get through 2082 02:16:42.319 --> 02:16:44.920 it because I just I was in that same phace 2083 02:16:45.040 --> 02:16:48.239 like this. None of this resonates with me. None of 2084 02:16:48.239 --> 02:16:52.920 it's particularly interesting or prescient. And now as we're reading this, 2085 02:16:53.120 --> 02:16:57.799 I'm like, all right, I wish I talked more, but 2086 02:16:57.959 --> 02:16:59.559 like I'm too busy agreeing with it. 2087 02:17:00.079 --> 02:17:04.760 Know, it's there's a way. There's a way you want 2088 02:17:04.760 --> 02:17:08.479 politics to be, and there's where what politics is now. 2089 02:17:08.600 --> 02:17:10.479 And if you want politics to be a certain way 2090 02:17:10.760 --> 02:17:12.319 you're going to have to take You have to take 2091 02:17:12.360 --> 02:17:13.079 power and do it. 2092 02:17:15.000 --> 02:17:17.319 At the at the very least, you have to acknowledge 2093 02:17:17.360 --> 02:17:21.440 that the only form of society you're ever going to 2094 02:17:21.440 --> 02:17:24.360 be in some form of an oligarchy, which is a 2095 02:17:24.479 --> 02:17:26.639 huge hurdle for a lot of people. 2096 02:17:27.000 --> 02:17:31.280 Yeah, it's well, there may be a white pill in there. 2097 02:17:31.639 --> 02:17:35.520 If you really understand elite theory, if a la if 2098 02:17:35.520 --> 02:17:38.120 you embrace it, if you realize that it's always a 2099 02:17:38.159 --> 02:17:44.159 small group of people in charge, there's a chance that 2100 02:17:45.120 --> 02:17:47.840 you could actually be a part of a group that 2101 02:17:48.239 --> 02:17:51.360 gets those that helps to get those people in charge, 2102 02:17:51.360 --> 02:17:54.319 people who are on your side, who at least you know. 2103 02:17:54.319 --> 02:17:56.319 It's like we've been talking about with the pay Pal mafia. 2104 02:17:56.600 --> 02:17:58.680 It's like, do I think the guys in the pay 2105 02:17:58.719 --> 02:18:02.159 Pal mafia agree with me? Probably not. I mean there's 2106 02:18:02.239 --> 02:18:06.920 probably maybe a couple of them. But are they do 2107 02:18:07.000 --> 02:18:10.040 they hate me? No? I don't think so. 2108 02:18:10.280 --> 02:18:15.200 And if you're young enough, especially now where everything is politicized, 2109 02:18:15.280 --> 02:18:20.000 and you're young enough, you can orient your life towards, 2110 02:18:20.319 --> 02:18:25.159 at least your material life towards you know, getting involved 2111 02:18:25.280 --> 02:18:29.559 in industries that no matter who's in charge, like especially 2112 02:18:29.600 --> 02:18:31.200 if it's the elites you think are going to be 2113 02:18:31.200 --> 02:18:35.639 in charge or you like, you can be a beneficiary 2114 02:18:35.799 --> 02:18:39.799 of a of a of a circulation of elites, if 2115 02:18:39.840 --> 02:18:43.159 not from the current ones. That's kind of my whole 2116 02:18:43.159 --> 02:18:46.639 shtick is like, get get into an industry or a 2117 02:18:46.680 --> 02:18:51.120 career that is circulation of elites proof. Like not recession proof, 2118 02:18:51.159 --> 02:18:54.479 because we're done with we're probably done with recessions, but uh, 2119 02:18:55.399 --> 02:18:56.879 circulation of elites proof. 2120 02:18:57.920 --> 02:18:59.360 Oh and there are a lot of those, you know. 2121 02:18:59.399 --> 02:19:01.719 I have people who contact me all the time now 2122 02:19:01.760 --> 02:19:04.239 and say, you know, it's like finally got myself to 2123 02:19:04.280 --> 02:19:07.520 the point where I'm pretty sure that you know, no 2124 02:19:07.559 --> 02:19:09.719 matter what would happen, I'll always be able to turn 2125 02:19:09.799 --> 02:19:13.079 it and come and and I mean that's that's important. 2126 02:19:13.280 --> 02:19:16.879 Yeah, I mean yeah, a certain level of self sufficiency 2127 02:19:17.120 --> 02:19:21.680 and uh preparedness. Absolutely, I am woefully and you know 2128 02:19:21.719 --> 02:19:23.680 I'm trying to have a kid and all that too. 2129 02:19:23.760 --> 02:19:26.520 And you know that I'm telling you that episode I 2130 02:19:26.559 --> 02:19:31.639 listened to listen to today with uh cat Cat Girl 2131 02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:35.319 Koulak kind of broken mind, just putting me in a 2132 02:19:35.360 --> 02:19:36.600 real bad mood all day. 2133 02:19:36.760 --> 02:19:40.319 You came into the group I recommend it to the listeners. 2134 02:19:41.079 --> 02:19:42.760 You came into the group chat and you were like, 2135 02:19:42.879 --> 02:19:44.639 all right, I'm gonna kill myself now. 2136 02:19:45.840 --> 02:19:48.040 Yeah. 2137 02:19:48.319 --> 02:19:51.799 Oh man, all right, well let's let's end this. Uh 2138 02:19:51.840 --> 02:19:54.479 where can people find your work when you do work? 2139 02:19:56.239 --> 02:20:00.000 So you can find me at bt W A Underscore 2140 02:20:00.079 --> 02:20:03.959 turns on x formally not as Twitter, and you can 2141 02:20:04.000 --> 02:20:08.319 find me every single Wednesday live on Timeline Earth. 2142 02:20:08.680 --> 02:20:10.760 All Right, thanks Daron, appreciate it. 2143 02:20:12.000 --> 02:20:13.200 Yep, thank you for having me