WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.000 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.599 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:08.439 the bride and groom? 4 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:10.560 Sorry? Sorry, we're here. 5 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:12.679 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 6 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:13.160 track of time. 7 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:16.719 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 8 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:17.960 quicker than a guess registered. 9 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.399 In that case, I pronounce you lucky. 10 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:23.399 Play for free at lucky landslots dot com. 11 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:24.879 Daily bonuses are waiting. 12 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:27.800 No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by long eighteen plus 13 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.320 terms and conditions applying See website for details. 14 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:34.119 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 15 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.840 gotten lucky? Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, 16 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.960 in my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I 17 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:41.759 have to say? 18 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:42.399 Yes? You do? 19 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.039 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 20 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:48.679 Really? Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 21 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:51.039 I never win and tell well. 22 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:51.439 There you have it. 23 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:54.640 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com. 24 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.200 Play for free right now? Are you feeling lucky? No, 25 00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:59.320 we're not necessary void were my low eighteen plus terms 26 00:00:59.320 --> 00:00:59.679 and conditions. 27 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:11.120 Plus, you are now listening to True Murder, the most 28 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.519 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 29 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.079 have written about them Gaesy. 30 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:23.840 Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week, another fascinating author 31 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:27.079 talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true 32 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:31.680 crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author 33 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:48.120 Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. In twenty ten, a brave whistleblower 34 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:52.120 alerted the police to doctor Stan Lee's corrupt pain management 35 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:56.680 clinic in Queens, New York. Lee spent years supplying more 36 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.840 than seventy patients a day with oxy codone and trading 37 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:07.560 prescriptions for cash. Emergency room doctors, psychiatrist and desperate family 38 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.719 members warned him that his patients were at risk of death, 39 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:15.759 but he would not stop. In Bad Medicine, former prosecutor 40 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:20.719 Charlotte Bismuth meticulously recounts the jaw dropping details of this 41 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.840 criminal case that would span four years, culminating in a 42 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:29.240 landmark trial. As a new assistant district attorney and single mother, 43 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:33.080 Bismuth worked tirelessly with her team to bring doctor Lee 44 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.159 to justice. Bad Medicine is a chilling story of corruption 45 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.680 and greed and an important look at the role individual 46 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:45.599 doctors play in America's opioid epidemic. The book that we're 47 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:50.080 featuring this evening is Bad Medicine, Catching New York's Deadliest 48 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:56.080 Pill Pusher, with my special guest, author and former prosecutor 49 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:01.039 Charlotte Bismuth. Welcome to the prog and thank you so 50 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:03.479 much for this interview. Charlotte Bismuth. 51 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.800 Thank you so much for having me Dan. I'm really filled. 52 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.240 I wish I'd known your podcast when I was younger 53 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.039 and didn't know any other true crime fans. Thank you. 54 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.879 There we go great, Thank you, Thank you so much 55 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:22.879 for this. This isn't an extraordinary and remarkable story. And 56 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.159 let's get right to this. Tell us where you were 57 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:32.919 professionally in your career in November twenty ten before we 58 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.680 talk about the faithful event which occurred at work December first, 59 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.520 December twenty ten, I. 60 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.520 Was an attorney. I had been admitted to the bar 61 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.360 for just over six years, I believe at the time. 62 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.360 I'd started my career at the law firm of Deba, 63 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.120 Boys and Plimpton, and then moved after about four and 64 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.800 a half years to the DA's office, where I began 65 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:05.159 in the Appeals Unit. As an appellate attorney, I defended 66 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.560 convictions before the Appellate Division First Department, which involved a 67 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:14.280 lot of brief writing, but luckily also many arguments in 68 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.480 front of a panel of judges. So in June of 69 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:23.360 twenty ten, I had just requested and received a transfer 70 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:28.920 or secundment technically to the Office of the Special Narcotics Prosecutor, 71 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:35.839 which is a unique entity that takes adas from all 72 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:40.240 five boroughs of New York City and has jurisdiction over 73 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:44.480 all felony narcotics crimes within the five boroughs. So it 74 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.879 allows for a much more rapid and coordinated prosecution of 75 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.000 high level narcotics cases, some of which involve international cartels. 76 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:00.959 Right now, you said that you were you suffered from 77 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:04.399 a state of privileged innocence, but you had just taken 78 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.920 on your first pill case involving a supermodel and forged 79 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:11.439 prescription and vicodin. Just tell us where you were in 80 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.439 terms of what you believed as your state of privileged 81 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:16.199 innocence at this time. 82 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.160 Well, I think that supermodel case is a great example. 83 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:29.199 She was a woman who had fallen into a vicodin addiction, 84 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:34.399 who had stolen prescriptions from two physicians forged them and 85 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:40.519 then submitted them to pharmacies across the city. Now, you know, 86 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.720 we prosecuted her to the full extent for the theft 87 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:48.480 and forgery of those prescriptions, and she was admitted into 88 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:55.120 a diversion program. But what I recall is that I 89 00:05:55.199 --> 00:06:06.360 attributed to her much more agency and bad intent then 90 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.680 I think would have been medically appropriate to do so. 91 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:13.720 And you know, we supported her application for a diversion program. 92 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:20.399 But it was, you know, very tempting, I think, to 93 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:25.600 think to when an individual who's in diversion relapses, to 94 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:29.319 think that some time in prison will correct that the 95 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.839 situation or send some sort of a message. And I 96 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.279 wish that I had known then what I know now. 97 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.480 Not to say that I would do anything perfectly now, 98 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.839 but I think understanding is an education is really important. 99 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:50.800 Absolutely. Let's talk about this faithful event that happens December first, 100 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:53.720 twenty ten. You're working late, you go to the ladies 101 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.800 room and you pass by your burial chief's office. He's 102 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:01.759 also they're also part of me working late. What happens? 103 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.079 What does she say to you? 104 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.480 Well, it was I remember that it was very quiet 105 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.920 in the office. Our offices were extremely busy during the day, 106 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.800 especially because we had undercovers coming through and people were constantly, 107 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:19.519 you know, yelling, clear the halls, you see, clear the halls. 108 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:24.879 So I was walking down the hall. My boss's office 109 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:28.000 light was on. She called me into her office and 110 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.759 she had one of those tiny little post it notes, 111 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.040 you know, the absolute smallest format that you can get, 112 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.319 and she said, we got a call from the NYPD. 113 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:41.160 Can you look into it? And I looked at the 114 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.240 post it. It had a detective's name on it, his 115 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.279 phone number, but it also had the name of a doctor, 116 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:51.600 doctor Lee, and part of an address forty seventh Road 117 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.480 in Queen's And I would add that part of my 118 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:58.360 state of privileged innocence. And I think, you know, the 119 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:03.279 one that was to be shattered most completely was I 120 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.079 did not think of doctors as criminals or as having 121 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:10.759 the potential to be criminals with respect to their patients. Obviously, 122 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:15.800 we've you know, we've heard one off horror stories about 123 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.480 sexual abuse or things like that. But it sure to 124 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.839 me a complaint that involved, as this one did, a 125 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:30.480 doctor and his prescriptions didn't make sense, because that is 126 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:35.600 what doctors do. They write prescriptions, they authorize treatments. They're 127 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:37.879 licensed by the state to do so, and they have 128 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:43.120 our trust to do so. So apparently the complainant told 129 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:47.279 the NYPD there's a doctor and queen selling prescriptions to 130 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:51.559 kids who don't need them. So, you know, the first step, obviously, 131 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:58.759 there's so many threshold questions. Is the doctor licensed, is 132 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.039 the doctor you know, practicing within the area for which 133 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:09.840 he's licensed, is the complainant credible? What age kids are 134 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:14.399 we talking about, and what kind of prescriptions? And are 135 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:18.720 we the right office to be answering these questions and 136 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.600 looking into this case? And so that's really where we 137 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.480 began to make sure and that you know, this is 138 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.759 really the philosophy of the Manhattan Die's Office and Special 139 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:32.159 Narcotics to make sure that we didn't just jump in 140 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:36.039 with the mindset of criminal prosecution, but to ensure that we, 141 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.039 you know, it was the right thing to do so, 142 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:42.240 and that we had proper jurisdiction to do so. 143 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:44.759 Now there's a complainant, and that's how we led to 144 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.960 this tip. And so this tipster is you've asked for 145 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.399 availability to be able to speak to this person, but 146 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:55.919 in the interim you do a little research. Again, you 147 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.440 were a little bit naive. So you did some research 148 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:02.039 about some things, and what did you find about doctor Lee, 149 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:05.639 but also just in general some of the things you found. 150 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:10.159 Well, I would I would respectfully push back on being naive, 151 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:13.879 only in the sense that I, you know, there's more 152 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.320 of an imposter syndrome effect going on there, which is 153 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:20.480 that even though I was in my mid thirties, with 154 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:25.679 you know, degrees from great universities and a good background 155 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:28.360 at a great law firm, I never took for granted 156 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.039 the lay of the land, meaning that you know, I 157 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.919 wanted to be an appellet lawyer to make sure that 158 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.879 I understood New York state law as opposed to the 159 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:42.159 federal law which I had been practicing. And in this case, 160 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.080 I wanted to make sure that I understood before I 161 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.639 drew any conclusions about the legitimacy of the doctor's practice, 162 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.080 what were the rules that applied to physicians. What were 163 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:57.240 these medications that we were talking about where, you know, 164 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:01.960 how they were classified or scheduled, and what were the 165 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:06.200 risks and benefits of these medications? And the other element 166 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.519 of it was that, you know, I think I would 167 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:11.840 have done that research in any event, because that's just 168 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:15.200 how I operate, but we didn't have access to the tipster. 169 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.519 When I asked the NYPD to put me in touch 170 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:22.159 with him, they wouldn't because and this is sort of 171 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.399 a very interesting question that you ask, because it reveals 172 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:30.720 how much you know, we have evolved at the time, 173 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.559 a complainant in a narcotics case for the NYPD was 174 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.559 automatically put through this sort of credibility test where they 175 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.519 had to go out and make controlled buys for narcotics. 176 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.759 But this tipster was not complaining about, you know, a 177 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:51.559 craft dealer or a cartel operation. He was complaining about 178 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:55.919 a doctor. He was also recovering from substance use disorder. 179 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.559 The last thing that he wanted to do was to 180 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:03.759 be put back out on the street and have his 181 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.960 credibility tested by buying drugs. So we had a long 182 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.360 tussle with the NYPD. They were, you know, acting in 183 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.960 good faith, but we believe that they were wrong to 184 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.519 maintain this requirement, and ultimately we had to go around 185 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.960 them and find the complainant directly, which meant that we 186 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.039 ended up running the investigation. This was not a case 187 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:29.240 where as usual, the NYPD runs the investigation and then 188 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.200 turns it over to the DA's office. We owned it 189 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.480 from really from day one. 190 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:39.320 What did you find out about doctor Lee in terms 191 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.879 of his ability, his lawful right to write prescriptions, but 192 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:49.679 also in opioid addiction itself, Yes. 193 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:56.320 Excellent point. We identified him as having a pain management 194 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:00.879 practice in Queen's but also as the part of a 195 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:06.320 very well respected anesthesiology practice at a teaching hospital in 196 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.039 New Jersey, and he had been there for a number 197 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:13.840 of years. He was very well credentialed, and he ran 198 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:19.279 this uh pain management practice in Queens, so in a 199 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:23.159 different state. He was licensed in both states. He was 200 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:27.320 the d A registrant, which meant that he was authorized 201 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.759 to prescribe controlled substances, and interestingly, on his website he 202 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:36.559 was also an authorized upernorphine prescriber, of which there were 203 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:40.360 not that many at the time. And interestingly, in order 204 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:44.039 to become a upernorphine prescriber, you have to go through 205 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:48.360 an extra level of training which is called and obtain 206 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.840 another registration which is called an X registration like the 207 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:55.799 letter X, and he had done run. But what I 208 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.879 thought was peculiar at the time was the notion that 209 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:04.600 a physician could both prescribe medications that were susceptible to 210 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:08.960 cause addiction and also offer treatment for addiction. And I thought, 211 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:12.679 you know, I found that to be so incredibly cynical. 212 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.759 And of course that's where again I had so much 213 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.559 to learn, because first of all, you know, there's a 214 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.960 huge gap right now where physicians who prescribe these medications 215 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:27.039 don't know how to taper their patients off and don't 216 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:31.000 know how to address the problem of a patient with 217 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.600 legitimate pain becoming dependent or addicted. And so those doctors, 218 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.840 you know, it's a good thing for doctors to have 219 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.279 that training to recognize the signs and to be able 220 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:44.519 to help their patients find an exit strategy. And at 221 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:47.840 the same time, what we're seeing now with the Sackler 222 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:53.399 family and Produe Pharma is the extreme cynicism of both 223 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.879 having launched the opioid epidemic with the sale and false 224 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:01.360 marketing of oxy content and trying to benefit from the 225 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.799 pool of the massive pool of people suffering from open 226 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:12.039 use disorder by marketing treatments for that disorder, the so 227 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.960 called Project Tango from a few years ago. So that's 228 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.399 what I feared with doctor Lee, and little did I 229 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:20.039 know that it was, you know, the plan of a 230 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.320 large corporate pharmaceutical company. 231 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.840 Right. You talk about your earliest partner, Joe Hall, and 232 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.120 he's an investigator and a veteran New York Police Department 233 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:39.399 homicide detective, and so you had the ambitious job of 234 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:44.480 trying to locate witnesses. You opened the book with one 235 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.159 of the people that you've found out about, Ali Walton. 236 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.440 But tell us a little bit about Joe Hall and 237 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:56.440 your work and what about the complainant. Do you finally 238 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.440 get to meet this person, to get to speak to them. 239 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.519 Yes, about Joe Hall, I will say that it was 240 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.759 one of the best things that ever happened to me 241 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.919 in my life, and one of my greatest honors to 242 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.320 not just meet him, but be able to work with him. 243 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.600 I had no idea that I was partnered with a legend. 244 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.120 As it turned out, Joe Hall had participated in a 245 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:30.840 number of very sensitive investigations, including investigations involving corrupt police officers. 246 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.919 So you know, I knew that he had a great reputation. 247 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.799 But Joe Hall is also someone who's very humble, who's 248 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:45.399 extremely hard working, and who you know, will get along 249 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:49.960 well with anyone who behaves with respect and works. You know, 250 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.559 nobody can work as hard as he does, but who 251 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.919 works hard? So Joe was assigned to the case. When 252 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:01.519 we ran into this roadblock with the NYPD and the complainant, 253 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.440 I don't know how he did it, but next thing 254 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.839 I know, he asked me if I was ready to 255 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.200 meet this young man whose name in the book is 256 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:16.200 Eddie Velaura, just to protect his privacy, and he brought 257 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.160 him in and we were able to have a series 258 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:23.319 of conversation with him. And that's really where you know, 259 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:28.119 that's that's a very good test of an early law 260 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:32.839 enforcement slash investigative partnership. Is an interview, but especially a 261 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:39.079 joint interview, because you know, the hierarchy was very strange 262 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.599 in a way. I was the prosecutor, but at the 263 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.400 same time I was a, you know, much more junior 264 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.079 player in law enforcement than Joe Hall. He was a 265 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:53.400 very experienced investigator, but he also respected my, you know, 266 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.319 my decision to sort of structure the interview, and he 267 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:02.319 knew that he had to sort of let me frame 268 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.759 the interview with the usual cautions and disclaimers. So we 269 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.759 very quickly developed this system. Where as we were talking, 270 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.480 we were both very sensitive to the fact that We 271 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.920 didn't want this young man to feel cornered by two interviewers, 272 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.480 and we sort of developed these signals where, you know, 273 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:23.559 if Joe wanted to ask a question or I wanted 274 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:26.720 to jump back in, we would allow each other to 275 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.519 do that. And as a result, we had a series 276 00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:32.640 of very productive conversations with this young man that left 277 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:37.039 us with such a good understanding of the type of 278 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.480 practice that he was complaining about. That this was a 279 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.400 practice where, you know, prices for pills were put up 280 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.640 on the wall in paper, where patients waited outside for 281 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.759 hours starting early in the morning, and were called with 282 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.400 numbered tickets rather than appointments, where people traded pills and 283 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.359 prescriptions for cash coming out of the office, and most 284 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.559 shockingly to this young man and also to us, where 285 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.880 the doctor did not care about the underlying medical conditions 286 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.200 of his patients. Our tips are in fact, had an 287 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.640 immune disorder, and one of the things that offunded him 288 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.960 the most was that doctor Lee really didn't care about 289 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.599 the diagnosis or about the specific kind of pain that 290 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:22.680 he was experiencing. 291 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:30.960 Now, in your investigation, in Joe Hall's investigation, you uncover 292 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:36.599 other people that were involved with doctor Lee's business, in 293 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.799 his practice. But there is a certain period of time 294 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.720 in this investigation before you are able to get a 295 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:48.440 search warrant and tell us about this approximately a year 296 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:53.440 of this investigation. How you find people to tell you 297 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.400 the stories about this doctor Lee's behavior. 298 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.319 Well, I will tell you that year was one of 299 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:09.319 the most difficult that I can recall, because we understood, 300 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.079 after really just a few weeks or you know, barely 301 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.559 a few months, that we were dealing with a threat 302 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.480 to public health and that there were, you know, men 303 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.519 and women who were receiving prescriptions from this doctor that 304 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.880 could lead to death. We were progressively beginning to hear 305 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.119 about overdoses, both fatal and non fatal, and I woke up, 306 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:34.079 as I know Joe did, every morning, with the fear 307 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.759 of hearing about another death. And you know, and that 308 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:42.440 tells you a lot, because we went very quickly from 309 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:47.000 being concerned of hearing about a death to being concerned 310 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.480 of hearing of another one, or another one, or another one. 311 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.240 And it got to the point where, by the time 312 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.839 doctor Lee was arrested in November twenty eleven, we knew 313 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:03.279 of sixteen fatal overdoses within his patient population. Now, not 314 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.480 all of those had happened, you know, while they were 315 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:11.319 immediately under his care. A couple had happened after the 316 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.759 patients left his care, but they were all within a 317 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.920 year of having left the clinic, and some of them, 318 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.599 like Nicholas Rappold and Joseph Haig, had occurred within just 319 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.519 a few days of their last visit. So this was 320 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.920 beyond chilling. It was nerve wracking. It was absolutely terrifying. 321 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.920 We felt such a weight, we were so concerned about 322 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.359 what might happen under our watch. And then in June 323 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:46.079 twenty eleven, you know, and the nightmare became real. We 324 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.480 learned that there had been a shooting in a pharmacy 325 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:53.359 in Medford, Long Island. Four people had been shot in 326 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:58.240 cold blood, the pharmacist, his young assistant, and two customers. 327 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.960 The next morning, when I came into the office, my 328 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.079 boss Bridget walked in, as well as did our criminal analyst, 329 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:12.119 Stephanie Mioto, and the three of us, you know, just 330 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.720 knew that we wanted to look through our database of 331 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.920 patient records, prescription records, and check whether any of doctor 332 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.240 Lee's patients had ever filled a prescription at that pharmacy. 333 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.440 Nobody said it out loud, but we all were concerned 334 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.599 that maybe, you know, one of them had been driven 335 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:36.440 to crime, and in fact, we identified one name, actually 336 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:39.440 two names, one current patient one former patient. They were 337 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:44.240 married to each other, and we ended upwarding that information 338 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.279 to the Suffolk County Police and the next thing we know, 339 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.720 David Laffer was arrested and pled guilty, and that was 340 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.960 absolutely devastating because you know, he went into that pharmacy 341 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:02.240 to steal hydrocodone pills, which was the medication that doctor 342 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.839 Lee had been prescribing to him, and he stole eleven 343 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:10.680 thousand of them and he took four lives. So once 344 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.359 that happened, we had to take a very very hard 345 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.720 look at what we knew because you know, obviously there's 346 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:23.160 a high bar to arrest someone to get a search 347 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.000 warrant to shut down a medical clinic. Again, you're talking 348 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.599 about a doctor who writes prescriptions, which he's allowed to do. 349 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:37.000 So Joe and I and Stephanie that was the extent 350 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.200 of the team more or less at the time, really 351 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:42.559 went into overdrive. We added a couple more investigators to 352 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:46.720 the team, and we finally were able to hone in 353 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.200 on one patient whose name was Michael Cornetta, who had 354 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.759 died of an overdose the year before, I believe in 355 00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:00.319 November twenty ten, and at the age of thirty seven, 356 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.119 and he was His method was to suck on fentanyl patches, 357 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:10.119 so he would get fentanyl patches prescribed by doctor Lee, 358 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.160 and then he would cut them open and he would 359 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:16.559 aspire the gel. It led to a number of non 360 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:20.480 fatal overdoses, and unfortunately, it led finally to a fatal overdose. 361 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.680 And the way that we were able to make a 362 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.799 case without having access to doctor Lee's own patient records 363 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.960 is that we received We sought out medical records from 364 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.720 every hospital in the city that we believe Michael Cornetta 365 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:39.519 might have gone to, and we finally, in one of 366 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.440 those records saw a note from a psychiatrist who had 367 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:48.200 not only treated him after an overdose, but who called 368 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:50.759 doctor Lee. Made a note in her file of that 369 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:53.799 call and told doctor Lee that she was calling from 370 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.200 the emergency room about a patient who had overdosed on fentanyl. 371 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.680 And that was a clincher because it showed us that 372 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.359 doctor Lee was put on notice of the risk to 373 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:08.119 his patient, and yet what happened he prescribed sentinel to 374 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:11.920 him again, and that is how we were able to 375 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.039 present evidence to the grand jury, and the grand jury 376 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.359 voted a felony charge, while several felony charges against doctor Lee, 377 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.519 including reckless endangerment in the third degree I'm sorry in 378 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:29.160 the second degree. And so we were able to obtain 379 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:32.119 a search warrant and arrest doctor Lee, and most importantly, 380 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:35.759 we were able to shut down his clinic. So that 381 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.880 was in November twenty eleven. 382 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:42.680 When you went and executed that search warrant. What did 383 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.799 you find interesting in terms of the record keeping by 384 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.960 doctor Lee. 385 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:53.000 So I was waiting at home, unable to sleep, waiting 386 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.000 for Joe to call me and tell me that they 387 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.920 were in, that they were safe, that everybody was safe. 388 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:05.440 And uh, you know, the first thing that surprised us 389 00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:09.519 was the tipster had told us about this sheet pasted 390 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:14.400 up somewhere in the office listing doctor Lee's prices. We 391 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.039 you know, while we found him to be credible, we 392 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.319 thought that that would be rather extraordinary and surprising, and 393 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.519 yet it was there. It was written in sort of 394 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:30.839 this you know, earth that's medical jargon, but essentially what 395 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.960 it said was the more pills you want, the more 396 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.640 you pay. We only accept cash. The more prescriptions you want, 397 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.440 the more you pay. If you're seeing other doctors, you 398 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:46.920 pay more. If you have suicidal ideation, you pay more. 399 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.920 And I, you know, it's hard to express what Joe 400 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:57.599 and I felt when we saw that, because you know, obviously, 401 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:01.920