Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the Poker Go Podcast. My
Speaker 1: name is Donny Peters and it's been a minute since
Speaker 1: this show has come into your speakers, but we are back.
Speaker 1: The post WSOP hiatus is all over. We're gonna start
Speaker 1: getting back into the swing of things now. It's still
Speaker 1: a little bit quiet on the Poker Go and the
Speaker 1: PGT front. So what we're going to try and do
Speaker 1: over the next little bit something that I've been meaning
Speaker 1: to do a little bit more of on this show,
Speaker 1: and that's got some longer interviews on the podcast. Of course,
Speaker 1: you know, during the w soop we're able to grab
Speaker 1: people for some quick sound bites here and there. On
Speaker 1: some breaks, we're able to get winners. Of course after
Speaker 1: they you know, win bracelets, win a boatload of money,
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. But hopefully hear you know,
Speaker 1: we can start diving into some longer stuff with some
Speaker 1: specific people that I kind of want to have some
Speaker 1: conversations with. You know, the summer chaos is now behind us.
Speaker 1: Things have calmed down a little bit, so that's going
Speaker 1: to be the goal, hopefully over these next couple shows,
Speaker 1: maybe even to carry us through the whole year. So
Speaker 1: hopefully you know now that I put that out there,
Speaker 1: I can actually deliver on it and not fail on
Speaker 1: that goal. First up, I was able to speak recently
Speaker 1: with Matt Savage. He's a good friend, listener of the podcast,
Speaker 1: he's an industry colleague. He's seen just about everything there
Speaker 1: is to see in poker. If you're on poker social media,
Speaker 1: you likely know Matt at Savage Poker. He's constantly talking
Speaker 1: about ruling tournament stuff, this and that. He's the founder
Speaker 1: of the Tournament Directors Association, also known as the TDA,
Speaker 1: and that's really what I wanted to speak to him about.
Speaker 1: So the TDA, it has a sum at every two years,
Speaker 1: but as I told him, I always get the sense
Speaker 1: of the TDA summ that it comes. People talk about
Speaker 1: it for a couple of days, for a week, you know,
Speaker 1: it's on social media, there's some chatter, but then it
Speaker 1: just goes away. Nothing really happens. There's not a ton
Speaker 1: of conversation about it. You know, a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: by the some what's gonna happen again, There's some conversation
Speaker 1: about it, and then it goes away again, and this
Speaker 1: cycle just kind of repeats. So hopefully this conversation that
Speaker 1: I'm going to have with Matt sheds some further light
Speaker 1: on what's happening within the TDA, how some hot topics
Speaker 1: and poker such as solvers, play clocks, face coverings, you know,
Speaker 1: big blind anti first or big blind first or anti first,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. You know how, that's all being discussed
Speaker 1: by different tournament staff members tournament officials around the world.
Speaker 1: Before we jump into that discussion, though, I do need
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Speaker 1: crypto is easy. Now that we got that out of
Speaker 1: the way, paid some bills of course, you know, got
Speaker 1: to take care of the housekeeping items. Let's get into
Speaker 1: that conversation that I had with Matt Savage. All right,
Speaker 1: it's my pleasure to bring in Matt Savage, WPT executive
Speaker 1: tour director, Poker TDA founder, and I will add all
Speaker 1: around just kind of tournament director extraordinary. If there's been
Speaker 1: a ruling out there, this guy has probably seen it.
Speaker 1: He's probably ruled it. He might have even wrote writ
Speaker 1: the rule book on it. Okay, So Matt Savage, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: How are you, thanks, Tony? Good to see. Yeah, been
Speaker 2: this busy summer, even though I didn't end up playing
Speaker 2: as much as I want to, but a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff going on. We had the TDA Summit right there
Speaker 2: in the Poker Ghost studio, so I want to thank
Speaker 2: you by thanking you and Tim and Maury of course
Speaker 2: for hosting us there. It was amazing a couple of days. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's gonna be the general topic that we're
Speaker 1: talking about today, a kind of all things TDA. As
Speaker 1: I reached out to you, you know, I always feel
Speaker 1: like the TDA comes and goes every couple of years.
Speaker 1: It gets kind of some play on social media, largely
Speaker 1: from you, you know, champion the conversation and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: then it kind of goes away, you know, like and
Speaker 1: it's like, what what happened? What's the result? What are
Speaker 1: what can things that players can expect or even you know,
Speaker 1: industry people like myself, What can we expect to come
Speaker 1: out of this? So we're gonna hit on kind of
Speaker 1: everything TDA related, you know, what people can expect. Maybe
Speaker 1: there's nothing to expect. I don't know, you know, I
Speaker 1: would like to know all that sort of stuff. So
Speaker 1: hopefully we can ask some good questions here and get
Speaker 1: some some good answers. It's also pretty timely, you know,
Speaker 1: coming off the summer, that's when everything is focused on,
Speaker 1: of course the World Series of Poker, but poker in
Speaker 1: general is just very focused and the conversation is much louder.
Speaker 1: We have obviously the whole laptop gate thing coming out
Speaker 1: of the World Series of Poker. You know that was
Speaker 1: post TDA summit, so you know, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I guess before we get into you know, some of
Speaker 1: the questions that I have and some of the topics
Speaker 1: I want to hit on, can you just go over
Speaker 1: like what the TDA is, when did it get started,
Speaker 1: how did it get started? And then big picture, what's
Speaker 1: the goal from the TDA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ternam director Association started in two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: and basically it was a result of me playing tournaments
Speaker 2: and around the Bay Area where I lived, and all
Speaker 2: the rules were different wherever I went. So I had
Speaker 2: this fanciful idea that I was going to come down
Speaker 2: to the World Series of Poker. First time I ever
Speaker 2: walked into the World Series Poker was in two thousand
Speaker 2: and one, and went up to the tournament director, Bob
Speaker 2: Thompson and his son Robert, and said, Hey, I would
Speaker 2: really like to try and get some poker rules standardized,
Speaker 2: like for tournaments, because we had Roberts rules out there,
Speaker 2: but we didn't have anything for tournaments, and like I said,
Speaker 2: they were different everywhere we went. So I said, let's
Speaker 2: try and get this done, and basically I was told
Speaker 2: that's been tried you for, it's never going to happen. Well, luckily,
Speaker 2: Linda Johnson had this World Poker Industry conference that was
Speaker 2: going on at the time, and so I asked her.
Speaker 2: She was already a friend of mine, and I talked
Speaker 2: to her into adding an extra day where we just
Speaker 2: met with with tournament directors and carter managers from around
Speaker 2: the country. And that year we had twenty five and
Speaker 2: the idea really started from there. Basically, the goal of
Speaker 2: the TDA is to always standardize the rules in the
Speaker 2: interests of the players. So the players when they go
Speaker 2: from casino to casino, property to property know what to
Speaker 2: expect when they walk in there and they see that
Speaker 2: they're using TDA rules, they know what to expect and
Speaker 2: it makes a better playing environment for all of those
Speaker 2: players and better for tournament directors, so they have a
Speaker 2: source and a resource to go to and discuss the rules.
Speaker 1: Now, the TDA founded by yourself, it isn't just you.
Speaker 1: There's a board, right Who's on the board, you know,
Speaker 1: so people can know kind of who they're getting involved with.
Speaker 2: The original board members from myself, Linda Johnson, Jan Fisher,
Speaker 2: and David Lamb and it's now grown. We just added
Speaker 2: Toby Stone from Poker Stars is here, but we have
Speaker 2: both Neil Johnson and Lloyd found tell Us from the
Speaker 2: Asian Poker Tour. We have devinir Campos from the Brazilian
Speaker 2: series of Poker. Paul Campbell from Aria and Poker Goo
Speaker 2: is also on the board, and Kenny Hollard, as a
Speaker 2: player and a tournament director from Europe is also there
Speaker 2: as well, and it's a conglomeration of all of those people. Also,
Speaker 2: Linda and Jan are still a part of that, and
Speaker 2: of course Mike Bishop, who is our TDA administrator, who
Speaker 2: does a lot of the work to making sure that
Speaker 2: the website gets updated and all those rules get done
Speaker 2: and updated along with our TDA certification. And so maybe
Speaker 2: you know the main goal of the TDA this make
Speaker 2: standardization for all players and tournament.
Speaker 1: Directors just quickly on the website pokertda dot com for
Speaker 1: anyone that wants to go out there and check in
Speaker 1: on things, see the rules and whatnot. Pokertda dot com
Speaker 1: is where all of that can be found. Does the
Speaker 1: board change often? Do new people get added often?
Speaker 2: Or how does that work? We've added We used to
Speaker 2: have Johnny Grooms and tab dou Chateau from Bogata and
Speaker 2: Johnny was at MGM and Bauravage back in the day.
Speaker 2: They've both stepped down because they've stepped into other areas
Speaker 2: they're not really focused on poker anymore. So, Yeah, the
Speaker 2: board hasn't only changed in the fact that we've had
Speaker 2: people step down and then we've added people to it.
Speaker 2: Now we have a lot of interest and a lot
Speaker 2: of people that really want to step up and be
Speaker 2: on the board, but I think at some point you
Speaker 2: had to have too many. And we'll make those decisions
Speaker 2: over time on whether we need to replace people or
Speaker 2: have people step up and be a part of it.
Speaker 2: But my goal was always to get a global so,
Speaker 2: you know, having somebody in South America, having somebody in Asia,
Speaker 2: having somebody in Europe, and you know, you know the
Speaker 2: United States in Canada is something that I always thought
Speaker 2: was important to the TDA. We've kind of achieved that
Speaker 2: at this point, so you know, covering all corners of
Speaker 2: the globe is super important.
Speaker 1: And a lot of those different Global board members also
Speaker 1: just members in general. They come to the TDA summit, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's people from all over that come to
Speaker 1: this thing. It's not just.
Speaker 2: People from Vegas. Might have been our biggest ever. We
Speaker 2: had one hundred and seventy not only tournament directors, but
Speaker 2: carter managers and property managers and players and dealers, and
Speaker 2: we had a pretty wide array. We even had some
Speaker 2: poker media there as well. So I'm you know, that
Speaker 2: always is what I want. I want it to be
Speaker 2: for everybody, you know, I want the dealers to be
Speaker 2: able to understand and follow the TDA rules and the
Speaker 2: players and I definitely want their input. Years past, we
Speaker 2: used to get people saying that it's made up of
Speaker 2: only tournament directors, but to be honest, most of the
Speaker 2: people that are tournament directors and most people that attend
Speaker 2: also play poker tournaments. So that's something that I always
Speaker 2: tried to get rid of because it wasn't true. But
Speaker 2: poker players are always invited to come out there, and
Speaker 2: I know it's a busy time of year during the summer,
Speaker 2: but I know that everybody's going to be in town
Speaker 2: as well. So there are those players that do come
Speaker 2: to the summit and add their input, but most of
Speaker 2: that has done in advance, where players are sending me
Speaker 2: feedback and sending me information, sending me rules that they
Speaker 2: think need to be changed or could be possibly changed,
Speaker 2: and that's how I get a lot of our stuff
Speaker 2: for the TDA.
Speaker 1: So the TDA was held for the eleventh time this
Speaker 1: past summer at the Poker Studio. As you mentioned, it
Speaker 1: takes place every couple of years, well every two years really,
Speaker 1: but there was, of course the COVID year that threw
Speaker 1: things off a little bit. First thing I guess is
Speaker 1: does it need to be more often than every two years,
Speaker 1: just with how fast everything seems to move these days.
Speaker 2: Well, here's what happened last year. Last year, I actually
Speaker 2: had an event in Korea and I stopped by Japan
Speaker 2: because people in Asia had asked me, and Japan had
Speaker 2: asked me, why don't you ever have a TDA summit
Speaker 2: in Asia. So a guy over there put it together
Speaker 2: and it's sold out in fifteen minutes. We had one
Speaker 2: hundred tournament directors, dealers and people from the industry in
Speaker 2: Japan last year. In my opinion, what I think we
Speaker 2: need to do is just have more of an international
Speaker 2: one every year and then have the main TDA summit
Speaker 2: in Vegas every two years. So I'm all about that.
Speaker 2: We have some people that are in Taiwan now that
Speaker 2: are looking to maybe do another one, even sooner than
Speaker 2: the middle of next year, and I think we'll do that. So,
Speaker 2: you know, with poker being a real global game and
Speaker 2: it's really exciting to see that so many people care
Speaker 2: and are so passionate about the rules of poker, I
Speaker 2: think that we should do more of those, and I
Speaker 2: think that we will in the near future. I would
Speaker 2: love to do it in Latin America. Of course Europe
Speaker 2: as well would be a big hot spot. Even maybe India,
Speaker 2: South Africa or an Africa would be a great one
Speaker 2: as well. You know, there's just so many people that
Speaker 2: care about the game, and you know, we get reached
Speaker 2: out to by everybody and you'll get pulled in a
Speaker 2: bunch of different directions. But I would like to make
Speaker 2: something more standards. So I do like that idea that
Speaker 2: you have.
Speaker 1: All Right, So, coming out of this year's summits, what
Speaker 1: are the big changes? Are the big topics that are
Speaker 1: looking to be addressed, things that players can maybe expect
Speaker 1: to be kind of coming down the pipeline.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that we had this conversation over the
Speaker 2: last couple of years about the big blind ante and
Speaker 2: what should go first? Should it go big blind anti
Speaker 2: first or anti first. It's to me such a trivial
Speaker 2: part of one rule that has made poker infinitely better,
Speaker 2: and it basically started right there at the Poker Ghost studio.
Speaker 2: So thank you to the high Rollers and Paul Campbell
Speaker 2: for that. But you know, I was really instrumental in
Speaker 2: popularizing that. But one of the things I felt really
Speaker 2: strongly about was that the Anti should come first, and
Speaker 2: ANTI is supposed to go first. It always has and
Speaker 2: I still feel that to this day. But the fact
Speaker 2: that the World Series was doing it different than the WPT,
Speaker 2: the Asian Poker Tour was doing different than Poker Stars, really,
Speaker 2: to me is something that it's such a small part
Speaker 2: of a great addition to the poker industry that I
Speaker 2: wanted to get it all the same, and I pushed
Speaker 2: for it two years ago right there at the Poker
Speaker 2: Studio as well, and couldn't get it past the line.
Speaker 2: This time, I really really pushed and pushed and pushed,
Speaker 2: and I knew that it was never going to be
Speaker 2: Anti first because the WSP wasn't doing that way, and
Speaker 2: you know some other big places Poker Stars had gone
Speaker 2: to Big Blind first. So I really wanted to focus
Speaker 2: on making it the same for everybody, and that was
Speaker 2: one that we got over the line, and I'm happy
Speaker 2: that we did that, and a lot of people were
Speaker 2: holding out to the bitter end, but in the end
Speaker 2: we all put that vote up and it got done.
Speaker 2: Another one that has kind of become even a bigger
Speaker 2: deal since then was the use of solvers was the
Speaker 2: use of graphs at the table and the use of
Speaker 2: cell phones, and a big, big conversation sprung out of
Speaker 2: that as to what we're going to do. I always
Speaker 2: say that we're going to have this conversation every two years.
Speaker 2: It's going to come up again in two years, and
Speaker 2: just so happens that it comes up more and more
Speaker 2: often these days. There are some scandals out there in
Speaker 2: poker that have not fully broken, about people using devices
Speaker 2: on the table to look at what the whole cards
Speaker 2: are when they're coming off the deck and seeing these
Speaker 2: things are going to break. And these are the things
Speaker 2: that the TDA is super focused on because you know,
Speaker 2: if one of those things happens and it becomes a
Speaker 2: pattern or it becomes more common, it really could ruin
Speaker 2: our game. And we all love this game. We don't
Speaker 2: want that to happen. So cell phones on the table
Speaker 2: was one of the things we really talked about about
Speaker 2: getting those removed. I know that not everybody in the
Speaker 2: room could agree, and that's the way that TDA works.
Speaker 2: If we don't get everybody to agree one way or another,
Speaker 2: it doesn't become a TDA rule. But for me and
Speaker 2: my focus, I really believe that, you know, cell phones
Speaker 2: are going to have to be turned off when you're
Speaker 2: not in a hand and you can't look at them
Speaker 2: and see if you're looking at a graph or a
Speaker 2: chart before the next hand begins. So that's one of
Speaker 2: those things I would really like to see happen. It
Speaker 2: hasn't happened yet, so I am really focused on using
Speaker 2: what the rule that the Wind has already. They have
Speaker 2: one in place where where solvers and charts are not
Speaker 2: allowed in the entire tournament area. And the discussion came
Speaker 2: up from David lappin what is the tournament area? Is
Speaker 2: it behind the rail, is it out of the room?
Speaker 2: Is it behind you know, when you're going to the restroom?
Speaker 2: Is it Where is the tournament area? And that was
Speaker 2: just another discussion. I thought it was a little bit silly,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think that using what the wind wind
Speaker 2: does is something I would like to bring to the
Speaker 2: WPT and of course to the TDA as well. It
Speaker 2: just didn't get settled this year, but it was a
Speaker 2: big discussion.
Speaker 1: Let me just quickly hit on the tournament area thing,
Speaker 1: because the Wind's a good example of this. So when
Speaker 1: the WPT World Championship takes place, it's in the ballroom
Speaker 1: area largely, and that is like a completely separate area,
Speaker 1: and you could almost assign that entire area of the
Speaker 1: property to quote unquote tournament area. But I play at
Speaker 1: the win A lot and the normal stuff is right
Speaker 1: outside the poker room in an area that is sometimes
Speaker 1: slot machine, sometimes poker tables. You can literally be a
Speaker 1: poker table, and then five feet away is just a
Speaker 1: regular walkway where like kids can walk on. So it's like,
Speaker 1: that's not a gaming floor, it's just a walkway. So like,
Speaker 1: can I literally just be five feet away from that
Speaker 1: table on my phone? Looking at a chart, you would
Speaker 1: think no, right, But if the rule is quote unquote
Speaker 1: tournament area, that's where it can get gray, and then
Speaker 1: people can be like, well, I'm not in the tournament area.
Speaker 1: Yes you are, No, you're not, and then you can
Speaker 1: just kind of go back and forth. So it's it's tricky.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there is a solution yet for any
Speaker 1: of this sort of stuff. It's hard. I know that
Speaker 1: we had the whole Jonathan Tomiow, Dominic Nische, Joe mckeean
Speaker 1: situation from the wsp Man event FALM table, and that's
Speaker 1: what everyone's pointing to. But I will also say that
Speaker 1: isn't the first time that this has happened to the WSIP.
Speaker 1: There was some photos out there, some videos out there
Speaker 1: from earlier in the summer. Walking through the fields myself,
Speaker 1: I saw people on their stuff all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very tricky. Part of it for me
Speaker 1: is it's a question of manpower, Like there's just not
Speaker 1: enough tournament staff, especially if the wz AP as an example,
Speaker 1: or even the WPT at the wind or any other massive,
Speaker 1: massive tournament where there's like one hundred tables in play
Speaker 1: and there's five tournament directors. I mean, how are you
Speaker 1: gonna police everything? And then and then it's does everyone
Speaker 1: know what they're looking for? What if they don't know
Speaker 1: what they're looking for? What if they disguise things? What
Speaker 1: if you say to a player, What if you walk
Speaker 1: up to a player, Matt, you walk up to me
Speaker 1: and you say, hey, I noticed you might be on
Speaker 1: a chart, and I see your phone. I say no, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you going to take my phone from me? No,
Speaker 1: you're not, Like, I'm not gonna let you. And I
Speaker 1: put in my pocket and I'm gonna say no. Liken,
Speaker 1: Then what do you do? Do you just suspend me
Speaker 1: or give me a penalty based on an assumption that
Speaker 1: I might have been on something? What if I was
Speaker 1: looking at my stock chart that looked similar. You know,
Speaker 1: It's like it gets very tricky and very gray. I
Speaker 1: do think that there does need to be heavy enforcement
Speaker 1: on it. It's just like when does that enforcement get
Speaker 1: levied because it can be very tricky and not everything
Speaker 1: can be understood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's what I say. I mean, honestly, having
Speaker 2: the rule in place itself is a discouragement for people
Speaker 2: to use it. So you know, people are going to say, hey,
Speaker 2: that's against the rules. I shouldn't be doing that, Right,
Speaker 2: So if I tell you you can't do it, and
Speaker 2: then you choose to do it after you're told that
Speaker 2: you can't, that is a discouragement enough to maybe where
Speaker 2: you catch somebody doing those types of things. But again,
Speaker 2: I think it's something that we were just trying to
Speaker 2: get out of the area itself. And again there are
Speaker 2: those even tournament directors out there, good friends of mine,
Speaker 2: that will say it doesn't help people as much as
Speaker 2: people think it's not that big of a deal. One
Speaker 2: guy even told me we should pass out charts to
Speaker 2: everybody that plays in the tournament and just get it
Speaker 2: out there in the open. I'm opposed to that. I
Speaker 2: think it's bad. Obviously, there's a lot of discussions about
Speaker 2: the opsticts how it looks. Is it cheating, is it
Speaker 2: not cheating. I mean, I'm not on the side of
Speaker 2: it was cheating. I'm not on the side it was.
Speaker 2: You know, I was definitely on the side that it's
Speaker 2: optically bad. There are people that play in tournaments all
Speaker 2: the time that feel like they are less informed, less
Speaker 2: likely to win, less likely to be able to compete
Speaker 2: because these things exist. So that type of thing I
Speaker 2: really want to get away from the area. And I
Speaker 2: understand that there's a lot of coaches out there, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that are in the industry. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that are trying to learn how
Speaker 2: to play poker better, which I am all for. I'm
Speaker 2: all for all of those things. I'm just saying that,
Speaker 2: you know, for that recreational player that doesn't feel comfortable
Speaker 2: in an event because some people are using these things,
Speaker 2: that's the person I want to protect. It's always a
Speaker 2: person I'm trying to protect in these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I play a
Speaker 1: fair bent bit of poker myself. I study a lot
Speaker 1: when I can on my time, my downtime. I use
Speaker 1: these tools when I can. If I see someone at
Speaker 1: the table using them, I particularly don't care. It kind
Speaker 1: of makes me understand what type of player I'm playing
Speaker 1: against them. I say, Oh, your guy who looks at charts, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know how you're going to play. Then you're going
Speaker 1: to be a slave to the chart, Like that's what
Speaker 1: you're gonna do. So I know you're going to probably
Speaker 1: do things pretty correct in theory, so that I can
Speaker 1: just combat that. But I can also see the side
Speaker 1: of if you're someone who's just a complete recreational you're
Speaker 1: not really in tune with you know, modern poker theory
Speaker 1: and study and that sort of stuff. You just basically
Speaker 1: play to play. You see somebody using these things, you're
Speaker 1: thinking they're trying to get an advantage of you on you,
Speaker 1: and it can certainly scare you away. And also just
Speaker 1: the the general fear that like people are putting out
Speaker 1: there on social media, Like if you're kind of just
Speaker 1: an onlooker from afar, you see all this sort of
Speaker 1: stuff and that can also scare people, you know, optically speaking,
Speaker 1: that can really scare people away. And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. You brought up the coaching aspect
Speaker 1: as well. I mean it's almost like if I were
Speaker 1: to like go to a final table, let's say it's
Speaker 1: at the Dabissity, just because that's where all this stuff
Speaker 1: seemed to happen, that got a lot of conversation.
Speaker 2: I win championship, Win.
Speaker 1: Win championship. I would almost rather have like a Sean
Speaker 1: deeb on my rail who I can just walk over
Speaker 1: and he can just literally say, Okay, this guy's doing this, this
Speaker 1: is how you're going to combat it good Versus me
Speaker 1: trying to go over to a laptop, look at a chart,
Speaker 1: figure out what's happening in real time, go back to
Speaker 1: my seat, and then put that into motion because I've
Speaker 1: done the start chart study and it's it's hard to
Speaker 1: like just get it quickly and put it into motion immediately.
Speaker 1: Versus if I go over there and Sean says, no,
Speaker 1: you need to start limping. Okay, I'll just start limping
Speaker 1: like And I'm using Shawn as an example because he's
Speaker 1: been a coach on Final table rails before, but like that,
Speaker 1: so then it's then it comes down to you know,
Speaker 1: where do you draw the line? Can you just never
Speaker 1: talk to a coach? Can you never go over to
Speaker 1: a rail? Are we going down the Poker Stars PCA
Speaker 1: route from years ago? We're sequestering people at a final table?
Speaker 1: How does like when does it stop? Where does it stop?
Speaker 1: It's it's just a whole different can of worms that's
Speaker 1: being opened up.
Speaker 2: And I put that up on Twitter recently in a
Speaker 2: poll and basically I would love to see it where
Speaker 2: there's no coaching allowed at these stream final tables. And
Speaker 2: you know what does that mean during play? Not on
Speaker 2: breaks some breaks, code, do whatever you want, go, get
Speaker 2: coached up, do whatever you think is right. But to
Speaker 2: have all these things out there and in the open
Speaker 2: and at the win Championship. By the way, Ryan Beauregard
Speaker 2: last year did not allow laptops in the final table area,
Speaker 2: and I think it was a better experience. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't see people running to the tables. Of course,
Speaker 2: at that Championship final table, we had six basically pros
Speaker 2: there right, so their their charts and their knowledge is
Speaker 2: all up there, so they're not going up there, But
Speaker 2: are they getting information from people on the breaks? Likely
Speaker 2: they don't have their phones at the table, so that's
Speaker 2: one way to combat that. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: we didn't allow those laptops in the audience, and I
Speaker 2: just like I said, I think it makes for a
Speaker 2: better experience. You want to go there as a player
Speaker 2: and have people come and sweat you and be a
Speaker 2: fan and be a part of the excitement of that
Speaker 2: final table where you can win life changing money. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, do you need to have somebody
Speaker 2: there coaching you after every hand or in between hands.
Speaker 2: I prefer that happen on the break.
Speaker 1: Now the TDA some it took place before the WSPM
Speaker 1: and event final table happens, WSM event file table happens,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Tomio wins. All this stuff blows up in a way.
Speaker 1: It's kind of sucks that it's taken the spotlight away
Speaker 1: from Tomayow and his accomplishment because everyone's pointing to this
Speaker 1: one incident. But how has like the has there been
Speaker 1: a lot of outreach from fellow tournament directors since that
Speaker 1: PEMAM final table. I know the summit had happened already,
Speaker 1: and you obviously talk about this sort of thing. But
Speaker 1: now it's right back in everyone's face on the biggest
Speaker 1: age in poker. So you know, what's the conversation like now?
Speaker 1: Is it constantly texting emailing about this sort of thing?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a group chat with all the people
Speaker 2: that are on the TDA board and we discussed it,
Speaker 2: you know, not at length, i'd say, but we did
Speaker 2: discuss it, and people that were around didn't really realize
Speaker 2: that it was going on at the time. What was
Speaker 2: happening at the time time, And like I, like you said,
Speaker 2: Tomorow deserve to win. Obviously he got lucky in a
Speaker 2: lot of spots.
Speaker 1: Or somebody elaid you be lucky to win a poker tournament.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a lot of great plays as well.
Speaker 2: So did he deserve to win? Absolutely? Did he cheat?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. But you know, I think that
Speaker 2: if people were more aware of what was happening, he
Speaker 2: probably would have stopped. And would those guys have been
Speaker 2: in the audience stopped had somebody told them to do so, Yes,
Speaker 2: they would have. You know, Dominic has said that he's
Speaker 2: backed off his original stance. Joe McKeon, it was just
Speaker 2: so great to see him come out of his shell.
Speaker 2: I've never seen him so I animated in my life,
Speaker 2: so I was always good to see as well. But
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, those guys, you know he
Speaker 2: deserved to win. Was he getting coached? Yeah? But like
Speaker 2: I said, I would just like to see that stuff
Speaker 2: outside of the actual play of hands. And I think
Speaker 2: that was the issue for a lot of people, especially
Speaker 2: the recreational players that have reached out to me, you know,
Speaker 2: through text, through social media and all. They just didn't
Speaker 2: like the look of it. And you know, that's one
Speaker 2: of the things that's important to the game of poke
Speaker 2: or is that we make things look optically good so
Speaker 2: that nobody feels like they're at such a disadvantage that
Speaker 2: they don't want to enter these big events.
Speaker 1: Changing topics to something that's kind of also works with
Speaker 1: the optics of the game, or even the playing of
Speaker 1: the game. Clocks, play clock, shot, clocks, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call them. It does seem like we're moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction. You know, a lot of some bigger
Speaker 1: stuff does now institute clocks? Are we as far as
Speaker 1: we can go? Should we go further? Meaning like should
Speaker 1: they be implemented more more places? You know, it's easy
Speaker 1: to do them in the Poka Goro studio or at
Speaker 1: a Triton stop, or in some of the WPT events
Speaker 1: when the field's condensed to be a little bit smaller
Speaker 1: and it's more manageable. You know, are we going to
Speaker 1: ever see it in like a WPT World Championship or
Speaker 1: a WSP main event, when there's thousands and thousands of
Speaker 1: players in a field, Like, at what point should we
Speaker 1: institute clocks? How important are they in the longevity of
Speaker 1: the game going forward.
Speaker 2: I think they're very important. I think that you know,
Speaker 2: you have certain players have been, you know, using these
Speaker 2: types of not having clocks as an advantage to you know,
Speaker 2: whatever situations on the bubble, it generally happens. But I
Speaker 2: think that, you know, we are moving in that direction.
Speaker 2: Our lead sponsor for the TDA Summit was Poker at Lists.
Speaker 2: They have a clock actually that goes right on the
Speaker 2: table on the keypad. I know that now Venetian has
Speaker 2: Poker Atlas and the Wind has Poker Outles. I think
Speaker 2: you're going to start seeing more clocks and more tournaments
Speaker 2: from the beginning. You know, we've also discussed this for
Speaker 2: WPT events. We now use them in all of our products,
Speaker 2: and we've reduced the amount of time pre to fifteen seconds.
Speaker 2: And originally it was a big whoa, what are you
Speaker 2: guys doing? You're doing this wrong. It should be fifteen seconds.
Speaker 2: But after people play with it for a little while,
Speaker 2: they say, you know what, this actually works. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that people talk about is if you
Speaker 2: have fifteen seconds, should you be able to use that
Speaker 2: full fifteen seconds all the time? When it was thirty seconds?
Speaker 2: I said absolutely not fifteen seconds. I think that when
Speaker 2: those keysits suations come up, or when you're laddering and
Speaker 2: you use your full fifteen seconds, I have no problem
Speaker 2: with it. Giving a lesser amount of time extension chips,
Speaker 2: I think is also important. You don't want people being
Speaker 2: you know, collecting them and then using them all at
Speaker 2: one time, where it might be a situation where that
Speaker 2: shouldn't be good. But I am one that also feels
Speaker 2: like that's okay. If you're going to give those time insensitiorships,
Speaker 2: it should be allowed. But to come back to your
Speaker 2: first point, I think we're going to see more of that,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a better thing for the game.
Speaker 2: You know, you know a lot of amateur and recreational
Speaker 2: players don't like the amount of time that it takes.
Speaker 2: And to be honest, when we gave out those time
Speaker 2: extensionships early on on the World Over Tour, most of
Speaker 2: those recreational players said, I'll never use these. I never
Speaker 2: take too long. And you know, it's the more professionals
Speaker 2: and the people that are more focused on you know,
Speaker 2: those ladders, the ICM jumps and all those things that
Speaker 2: are using them to their advantage. And you know, I
Speaker 2: while I would like to see the clocks you used to,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe enhance some of the play on the
Speaker 2: on the tournaments, I don't think they should be used
Speaker 2: as you know, a detractor to try and make things
Speaker 2: super slow and unenjoyable for everybody that's playing game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like them. You know, it does
Speaker 1: take a little bit of getting used to, but I
Speaker 1: think everyone can get used to it pretty easily, you know,
Speaker 1: just like everyone got used to the big blind anti
Speaker 1: for example. You know, like, yeah, that wasn't the norm,
Speaker 1: but eventually everyone got used to it and that's just
Speaker 1: the norm now. I think clocks will at least hopefully
Speaker 1: get to be the norm in everything and people will
Speaker 1: just understand that that's how they work, and it's it's
Speaker 1: always been funny to me. A lot of these guys,
Speaker 1: the players, you know, the high rollers and whatnot, who
Speaker 1: want to use as many time extensions as possible, their
Speaker 1: max time, all that sort of stuff, are used to
Speaker 1: playing online eight, ten, twelve tables, you know, snap decisions,
Speaker 1: and it's like, guys, this is one live tournament, Like
Speaker 1: can we just can we act? Like come on? You know,
Speaker 1: I think you can figure this out. You've probably seen
Speaker 1: it before hundreds of times, so let's just move things along.
Speaker 2: We've adjusted it on the WPT to now they're accumulating,
Speaker 2: so it kind of restricts some of those situations where
Speaker 2: you're in the bubble. If you use all of your
Speaker 2: time sensions on the bubble, you're not going to have
Speaker 2: them if you make it to the final table. So
Speaker 2: we've done that, and you know, one great example I
Speaker 2: like to use is the fact that Calvin Anderson, who
Speaker 2: won our Prime Championship last year, there were ten thousand entries,
Speaker 2: use zero, right, so you don't need to use those
Speaker 2: to win a tournament. And I think even at the
Speaker 2: final table he was rushing decisions because he didn't want
Speaker 2: to use them. He wanted to have them all at
Speaker 2: the end, and the fact that he had all twenty
Speaker 2: when he got to the end, I thought it was
Speaker 2: quite an accomplishment but also a fun example of you don't
Speaker 2: need to use those things and use too much time
Speaker 2: to win a tournament.
Speaker 1: Another big topic seems to always become very pertinent every summer,
Speaker 1: you know, just there's more poker being played, there's a
Speaker 1: lot more poker being streamed, specifically face coverings. I mean,
Speaker 1: what is this? Is this the cats out of the
Speaker 1: bed with the whole COVID stuff? I get it? Is
Speaker 1: it ever going to go into the bag? What can
Speaker 1: we do to possibly put some of it back in
Speaker 1: the bag? Like, how does that all shake out from
Speaker 1: a TDA perspective?
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I think that masks, you know,
Speaker 2: people wearing masks are here to stay. But I do
Speaker 2: believe that if somebody's wearing a mask, they probably should
Speaker 2: be wearing medical grade one, you know. But the fact
Speaker 2: that people are wearing them and taking them off their
Speaker 2: face and then putting them on when they're in a hand,
Speaker 2: I do not agree that that is kosher. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's cool. I don't think people should be doing that.
Speaker 2: But one of the topics that we brought up is
Speaker 2: something that they do in Jacksonville. Best bet they actually
Speaker 2: have a sign that says you can wear a mask, Sure,
Speaker 2: you can wear sunglasses. Okay, you cannot wear a mask,
Speaker 2: sunglasses and a hoodie. You can't wear three things, so
Speaker 2: you wear two of three. So that discussion came up.
Speaker 2: We couldn't come to an agreement on that, but I
Speaker 2: think we'll probably be bringing that up again. So you know,
Speaker 2: for me, the sunglasses and the technology that's coming along
Speaker 2: with the sunglasses or something we're gonna be talking about again.
Speaker 2: People wearing headphones at the table. Is that something that
Speaker 2: we may have to remove and if we have to
Speaker 2: remove headphones at some point, or we're going to have
Speaker 2: to remove hoodies as well, so people can't obscure their
Speaker 2: ears and see what's in their ears. So it's it's
Speaker 2: something that I think again will be a discussion in
Speaker 2: two years. Where are we at with that right now?
Speaker 2: I don't think that ninety nine point nine percent of
Speaker 2: anybody has anything the ferries when they're wearing headphones or
Speaker 2: using phones at the table, or using sunglasses at the table,
Speaker 2: or any of those things. But I do think there
Speaker 2: needs to become a point where we have to stop it.
Speaker 2: It's annoying to a lot of people like me when
Speaker 2: you're playing in somebody that's wearing sunglasses, hoodies, a mask,
Speaker 2: a gate or Kevin coming up a scarf, all of
Speaker 2: those things and there's nothing you could see on them,
Speaker 2: on their face, on their eyes that you know makes it.
Speaker 2: You know, part of the game is getting tells from people.
Speaker 2: So people totally trying to obscure themselves I don't think
Speaker 2: should be allowed. There are people that are on the
Speaker 2: fencing it about that and feel like anything should go
Speaker 2: and anything should be allowed, but I think that number
Speaker 2: is somewhere around twenty percent or less. So the fact
Speaker 2: that that's there, like I said, I think if they
Speaker 2: have rules in place, like again, I'll use a WIN
Speaker 2: as example, where you cannot have your face obscured at
Speaker 2: the table. Completely obscured at the table is something that
Speaker 2: we're going to be leaning towards doing on the WPT
Speaker 2: anytime that I can have something to say over that,
Speaker 2: and you know it, you know, when somebody's doing something
Speaker 2: that doesn't look right or or has this kind of
Speaker 2: covering that shouldn't be allowed. So I'm happy to support
Speaker 2: all of those things, and I think that we will
Speaker 2: do more and more of that in the future.
Speaker 1: What's one rule, just in general, can be anything that
Speaker 1: you would like to see implemented as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: That's a good one. Ah, that's a good one. I
Speaker 2: really would like to see. I mean it goes back
Speaker 2: to the games speeding up. I would like to see
Speaker 2: those clocks and institute at the very beginning of tournaments.
Speaker 2: I think that's something that we can do. And I
Speaker 2: think that you have done in a lot of your
Speaker 2: and Sarah at Poker Goo that.
Speaker 1: Was easy into fifteen tables.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I did have my list of
Speaker 2: pet peeves and people throwing the racks on the floor
Speaker 2: I think will be another one.
Speaker 1: Listen, I put my racks where they're supposed to go.
Speaker 1: Every single time. Every time I move a table, I
Speaker 1: will find where the racks are. I will walk over
Speaker 1: there put them down, or I will if I don't
Speaker 1: have time because I have a hand immediately, I'll just
Speaker 1: put it right behind me on the back of my
Speaker 1: chair and then I'll fold my hand or whatever I'll
Speaker 1: go up. I'll walk over and do that because I've
Speaker 1: been on the floor plenty in my reporting days and
Speaker 1: I've stepped on those racks and it sucks. It absolutely sucks.
Speaker 1: You are asking to break an ankle. I'm telling you
Speaker 1: it is not fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, people think I'm joking about that, but it's true.
Speaker 2: And you know, we created a video about it. But
Speaker 2: I'm telling you. I was just at a tournament a
Speaker 2: few weeks ago and player literally took his two racks
Speaker 2: and threw them in the middle of the aisle, exactly
Speaker 2: the place where the waitress is going to be walking
Speaker 2: by in like thirty seconds. And I literally walked up
Speaker 2: to the and said, what in the hell are you doing?
Speaker 2: And the guy literally like what do you mean.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can just hand them, you can just
Speaker 1: say here, can you take this? And the deal will
Speaker 1: be like yeah, sure and put it in the rack
Speaker 1: or something like that's the worst case.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That goes back to training in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: And I think it's improved. I think this is something
Speaker 2: that's improved, and I think that I've had something to
Speaker 2: do with that. And I still get a lot of
Speaker 2: people trolling me all the time, sending me videos of
Speaker 2: racks on the floor and all that stuff, and it's
Speaker 2: fun for them and they but I think in the
Speaker 2: end people are going to learn that it's something that
Speaker 2: it's something for you know, the staff, the people, the
Speaker 2: media that's on the floor, the cocktail waitresses are there serving,
Speaker 2: you know. It's just you know, a behavior you would
Speaker 2: want to see, and people throwing him under the middle
Speaker 2: of the table. Somebody has to go down there and
Speaker 2: get that rack for more your stinky, nasty feet. We're
Speaker 2: all single all day and it's just not right. So
Speaker 2: I think that's a you know, kind of a funny one,
Speaker 2: but at the same time it's important.
Speaker 1: What's the most common ruling that you see carried out incorrectly.
Speaker 2: The moving of players to a table when they're a
Speaker 2: new player. People don't understand who gets a hand, who
Speaker 2: doesn't get a hand, when somebody has to take the
Speaker 2: big blind, and when somebody can come in in the middle,
Speaker 2: or when can somebody take the button. This one still
Speaker 2: comes up all the time, and I like to say,
Speaker 2: there's three different ways to understand this. If you are
Speaker 2: a new player, or you are a player that's coming
Speaker 2: from a balanced table, Okay, you can take the button,
Speaker 2: the small blind or the big blind. If you are
Speaker 2: somebody that's getting moved to balance a table, meaning you're
Speaker 2: on a nine handed table moving to a six handed table,
Speaker 2: you must always take the single big blind if it's available.
Speaker 2: If not, you need to take the worst position. And
Speaker 2: the worst position is never the small blind. So that's
Speaker 2: the most common one that I get all the time.
Speaker 2: The other one is the single chip. Is it a
Speaker 2: raise or is it not a raise? Blinds are three
Speaker 2: or six and twelve hundred and the first player throws
Speaker 2: out two one K chips. Many people feels like that
Speaker 2: should be a raise, but it's a simple ruling and
Speaker 2: that you remove the one of the chips from the pot.
Speaker 2: It's not enough to cover the bet and therefore it
Speaker 2: is not a raise. And so that's the example of
Speaker 2: that I like to use all the time. You know,
Speaker 2: those chip rules and things come up all the time,
Speaker 2: But I think the biggest one is when can you
Speaker 2: take a hand and when can you not take it?
Speaker 1: How is it being addressed for dealer errors? You know,
Speaker 1: oftentimes you'll see I think the one that always sticks
Speaker 1: out to me the most is a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago when the WSP was still at the Rio Dario
Speaker 1: Sammartino deep in the WSP Main Events. The dealer said
Speaker 1: it was I think eleven million or fifteen million or something.
Speaker 1: It was actually eighteen million. He had to call anyway,
Speaker 1: because he said verbally call, you know. He didn't just
Speaker 1: like put chips out.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The dealer had told him one thing, so he was
Speaker 1: under the asumption. You know, So how is how is
Speaker 1: that stuff being handled or what sort of fail safes
Speaker 1: are you know, being explored to combat that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: Because I mean, listen, mistakes are going to happen. There's
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 2: Thanks for happening all the time. And I think that
Speaker 2: this one that's a common one and I really want
Speaker 2: and on the TDA we have a rule or a
Speaker 2: suggested procedure that the dealers announce that's and raises and
Speaker 2: the amounts. And not every tournament series does that. Not
Speaker 2: everybody does that, but I would really like to see
Speaker 2: that happen. So when that does happen, depending on the
Speaker 2: skill level of the dealer, these mistakes are going to
Speaker 2: happen more and more. So that is a common one.
Speaker 2: And the ruling is always or generally, if you make
Speaker 2: a verbal statement of call. You have to call whatever
Speaker 2: the amount is. But we do have certain situations and
Speaker 2: we always go back to TDA number rule rule number one,
Speaker 2: which is, you know, in the fairness and what is
Speaker 2: best for the game, we can make decisions that may
Speaker 2: not affect that mean, maybe the player had his handful.
Speaker 2: Let's used Daniel's example for where he, you know, limped
Speaker 2: for five thousand, and Arthur raised to thirteen thousand and two,
Speaker 2: Plaeople folded, and then Arthur folded his hand in that
Speaker 2: spot right there. The dealer is supposed to stop and say, hey,
Speaker 2: Daniel still has a hand. You need to protect these
Speaker 2: cards from that player that's obviously folding in a spot
Speaker 2: where he shouldn't. So now what did Daniel say. He said,
Speaker 2: you know that we you know that's a terrible rule.
Speaker 2: It was a terrible ruling by that floormant, who was,
Speaker 2: by the way, one of the best four people in
Speaker 2: the industry. Jordan Cutter shout out. So that's partially a
Speaker 2: dealer air, it's partially a player air. But in the
Speaker 2: end we give that player back the eight thousand that
Speaker 2: he raised, and then Daniel wins the anties, the blinds
Speaker 2: and the five thousand from Arthur. So is Daniel getting
Speaker 2: penalized in that spot? He says absolutely, I'm getting penalized.
Speaker 2: And he said we shouldn't, you know, protect people, even
Speaker 2: if it's I think he says Aunt Betty back in Iowa,
Speaker 2: and I say, you should protect those people. And there
Speaker 2: are certain things where a dealer might scoop up a
Speaker 2: hand of a player that's moved all in. It's happened multiple,
Speaker 2: multiple times, and again dealer errors are going to happen.
Speaker 2: We don't want to, you know, really remount the dealer
Speaker 2: and think that it's something that is never going to
Speaker 2: be happen in the game. So we want to do
Speaker 2: what's best for all players and try and protect the
Speaker 2: players from dealer mistakes as best we can. And I
Speaker 2: think we do that a lot on the TDA, and
Speaker 2: I think it's important.
Speaker 1: This brings up a question I've kind of always had
Speaker 1: because you mentioned the archer march Rose and Dane on
Speaker 1: the Grand New hamm or Arthur you know, flings his hand,
Speaker 1: it hits the muck or whatever. Why is the muck
Speaker 1: still there and able to be hit? Because if you
Speaker 1: were to like protect it some sort of way or
Speaker 1: like put it in a case I don't know exactly,
Speaker 1: but like, if you could never hit the muck, then
Speaker 1: you could always give a hand back, right, So like,
Speaker 1: why isn't that something that's happened.
Speaker 2: And this has happened in the World Series two, just
Speaker 2: say that, you know, people are winging their cards in
Speaker 2: the muck on the river when they're all in, heads up,
Speaker 2: when they're supposed to be showing those cards. There's a
Speaker 2: video I think from pilker dot org where they actually
Speaker 2: showed helmet on the river all in and he MUCKs
Speaker 2: his cards. You shouldn't be allowed to do that. The
Speaker 2: dealers should be able to protect that. But again, in
Speaker 2: that situation, I'm not going to hold that against a
Speaker 2: dealer because he's winging it into the muck. I would
Speaker 2: really like to see a better enforcement of that for dealers.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't hate your idea. There are dealers,
Speaker 2: and you really don't want a dealer to have his
Speaker 2: hand on top of the muck because that could lead
Speaker 2: to some nefarious things over time. But yes, protecting the
Speaker 2: muck as best as possible maybe a case I like it.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking, like, why is sometimes
Speaker 1: you have the dealers like the muck is basically like
Speaker 1: out there right next to the flop. It's like so
Speaker 1: easy to hit, you know, like you can try sometimes
Speaker 1: I fold and I try and hit the muck, just
Speaker 1: you know, to have fun or whatever. Like in a way,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like I should never if we want
Speaker 1: hands to be retrievable, you know, like in this situation
Speaker 1: where it happened with Daniel and Archer, it would have
Speaker 1: been easy to just been like, hey, Archer, here's your handback. Okay,
Speaker 1: he still has cards over here, so let's continue the
Speaker 1: action and then go from there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's the you know, the thing is
Speaker 2: that a lot of times when you're in seed number one,
Speaker 2: you're at a disadvantage and people don't ever really think
Speaker 2: about it where your cards are so close to that
Speaker 2: mott it should be protected better. And I agree, it's
Speaker 2: one of those things that you know, the dealers really
Speaker 2: need to be trained and be running the game. And
Speaker 2: you know, it's not always easy, especially in the summer
Speaker 2: when there are you know, thousands of dealers in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: It's tough, tough, tough, tough to get the top dealers
Speaker 2: to deal these events. And you know, training, training, training, man,
Speaker 2: It's it's something that's it's got to be better. Enforcement
Speaker 2: of these rules also has to be better in all situations.
Speaker 1: My favorite seat are one and nine. Just so you're wondering,
Speaker 1: So I I like the fact that you get you.
Speaker 1: I feel like you get a little bit more space
Speaker 1: if you're in the one on your right side or
Speaker 1: if you're in the nine on your left side, because
Speaker 1: the dealers a little bit further. Sometimes players like just
Speaker 1: get right next to you. Sometimes you got to play
Speaker 1: ten handed, so I like just that little extra couple
Speaker 1: of inches. I'm used to it now where I'm very
Speaker 1: careful with my cards. I protect them right away, all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. So yeah, I like those seats.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have any sort of issue because
Speaker 1: I've I've been used to sitting there so many times
Speaker 1: that I know how to look at the other players.
Speaker 1: Some players, Oh, I can't see the guy in the
Speaker 1: nine seer. Orever, we'll just lean forward a little bit,
Speaker 1: like it's not that hard.
Speaker 2: I like those that But once that dealer snatches your
Speaker 2: cards from the one seed one day, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, it's happened. It happened this summer, not that I
Speaker 1: was in the one seed. I think I was in
Speaker 1: like the six seat, and the dealer snatched my cards.
Speaker 1: And I'm a big proponent that you know when that happened.
Speaker 1: I think I was the small blind too, and the
Speaker 1: dealer like it must have hit the small blind chip
Speaker 1: and then the dealer just grabbed the cards and there
Speaker 1: had been some folds and maybe a raise, so there
Speaker 1: was a bunch of action, and the dealer was like
Speaker 1: overly apologetic. I was like, listen, it's fine, it's one hand.
Speaker 1: It's not that big of a deal. I have no
Speaker 1: idea what the hand was, so just I was like,
Speaker 1: just count the cards to make sure that you didn't
Speaker 1: like just miss me completely, and if you have enough cards,
Speaker 1: then yes, just carry out with the hants. Not that
Speaker 1: big of a deal. But yeah, like I'm I believe
Speaker 1: that you should have some sympathy because these dealers are
Speaker 1: working long hours, dealing hundreds and hundreds of hands. Mistakes
Speaker 1: are going to happen, just like when you're a player.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've made a mistake, misclicking and betting the
Speaker 1: wrong amount, acting out of turn, whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: and the dealer doesn't blast you for it. No, that's
Speaker 1: not how it is. So like, just be you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit sympathetic with things. If it happens over
Speaker 1: and over again, I get it, you know at that point.
Speaker 1: But also like at that point, I would I would
Speaker 1: advise players to just get up, find a foreman, say like, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: you know this dealer is you know, having issues with this,
Speaker 1: this and this. We had a dealer who like literally
Speaker 1: couldn't count the pot this summer, like in any hand.
Speaker 1: And eventually we were just like, listen, every hand takes
Speaker 1: seven minutes. It's just it's not fair to us. So
Speaker 1: can you just you know, get someone else in here?
Speaker 1: And the TV was like, yes, that's fine, great, I'll
Speaker 1: find some one, got someone in, switched it out. There
Speaker 1: was no like exchange of words because everyone understood the situation.
Speaker 1: And that's how I think things should be going about,
Speaker 1: as opposed to this yelling at the dealer because that's
Speaker 1: not going to solve anything at all.
Speaker 2: They were all like you, Donnie. I wish they were
Speaker 2: all like you. I'm just saying, you know, that's kind
Speaker 2: of how literally I built my career. Early on, when
Speaker 2: I was started running these big tournaments at the World
Speaker 2: Series I basically made an announcement at the start of
Speaker 2: the World Series Dealer a beast is going to stop,
Speaker 2: and it's going to stop now. And we you know,
Speaker 2: there at the Commerce when I was there up in
Speaker 2: northern California, we just didn't let the dealer abuse happen
Speaker 2: and people got removed and people got eliminated from tournaments
Speaker 2: in the past for doing things like that. Throwing cards
Speaker 2: to the dealer, which you don't see anymore, used to
Speaker 2: be a thing and used to be a common thing,
Speaker 2: and I'm glad that that's out of the game entirely. Good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another question here, were ever going to see the
Speaker 1: Big Blind ante or at least a variation of it
Speaker 1: in mixed games like in the STUD games for example,
Speaker 1: Why is everyone ante?
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of people asking about it, and
Speaker 2: you know, we go back four years on the TDA
Speaker 2: Summit when we change a lot of the STUD rules.
Speaker 2: I know you play a lot of those games, and
Speaker 2: people were very, very resistance to changing some of the
Speaker 2: age old rules, like in Stud the double bet on
Speaker 2: four Street. I still get people from the old school
Speaker 2: that like it and they used it to their advantage.
Speaker 2: They use it as a way to say I understand
Speaker 2: this game and you don't. You're a new player to
Speaker 2: this game. Got more questions from dealers, from new players,
Speaker 2: from everybody, why is he allowed to double bet on
Speaker 2: four Street? And those are the things that are so
Speaker 2: ingrained in the mixed game lore that it's very tough
Speaker 2: to change. Should there be big blind anti in mixed games?
Speaker 2: I think so, I think it would work just fine,
Speaker 2: but so many people are resistant to that and think
Speaker 2: that it's just such an integral part of the game,
Speaker 2: putting up your auntie every time, And it would make
Speaker 2: it so much easier for the dealers as well, if
Speaker 2: that was one thing, and you would never have to
Speaker 2: ask who didn't Danty, You'd never have to go to
Speaker 2: the campra. One of the things we found out of
Speaker 2: it big blind Anti. It made it so much better.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's something that could change at some point,
Speaker 2: but just not yet.
Speaker 1: I mean to the mixed game community that there was
Speaker 1: a lot of resistance for big blind Anty in Big
Speaker 1: bet right, and eventually people just were like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is way better, Like people came around, is basically what
Speaker 1: I'm getting at. But like, sometimes if I do happen
Speaker 1: to go play a mixed game, and I play a
Speaker 1: stud game, you always get it like once a rotation,
Speaker 1: somebody didn't anty who didn't anty? Well, like can we
Speaker 1: stop this, guys, like come on exactly?
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean the other one is people will say,
Speaker 2: but mixed games are so much better for short stacking
Speaker 2: and coming back from a short stack, and if you
Speaker 2: do that, you just ruin the game for everybody. But
Speaker 2: it happens, It can happen, and I've seen it. I
Speaker 2: think it would work. I'll try again. I'll try again
Speaker 2: the next summit.
Speaker 1: All right, So what can people expect from the TDA
Speaker 1: going forward. I'm guessing the next TDA summit will be
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, correct, Yeah, but I have.
Speaker 2: Met We'll have one in between here and there somewhere
Speaker 2: else in the world. And again, like I'm really excited
Speaker 2: about doing that. But yeah, but I think our rules
Speaker 2: are just about done and coming out we had some
Speaker 2: red lines and very few actual changes, but a lot
Speaker 2: of stressing, onenforcement and all those things. So I think
Speaker 2: we'll have some of that. And I think that what
Speaker 2: I really want to happen is I want to get
Speaker 2: our website fixed. I want to get our training certification upgraded,
Speaker 2: and I would love to have a level two of certification.
Speaker 2: And so many people around the world take that certification
Speaker 2: test and it's only ten dollars, but what it does
Speaker 2: is it shows the people that you work for and
Speaker 2: the people that you're working for that you are taking
Speaker 2: your learning of the rules seriously and that is an
Speaker 2: important part of your job and what you're doing. So
Speaker 2: I would love to see some improvement on that. And
Speaker 2: definitely just anybody out there that has any questions or
Speaker 2: wants to be a part of the TDA, please reach
Speaker 2: out to me. I'm pretty accessible on all things social
Speaker 2: and would be happy to plug you in with somebody
Speaker 2: in your area of the world to make that happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. At Savage Poker on Twitter slash x. I know, Matt,
Speaker 1: you're always fielding a whole bunch of stuff questions is
Speaker 1: this right? Is that right? What would you have ruled?
Speaker 1: What would you have not have ruled? I hit you
Speaker 1: with some of those via text, you know, quite often
Speaker 1: on some stuff. So I think you're doing God's work
Speaker 1: out there for responding to all that sort of stuff
Speaker 1: because you don't need to.
Speaker 2: So happy to do it. I just again, I want
Speaker 2: the game to grow, and I think that's something that
Speaker 2: I've always focused on in growing the game globally, and
Speaker 2: I think that having a standard set of rules is
Speaker 2: super important for doing that. And I do appreciate all
Speaker 2: your support there from poker Real great.
Speaker 1: When are we going to get a WPT schedule for December?
Speaker 1: Come on, man, it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of I'm telling you, I've getten what I had
Speaker 2: like six questions about that today. The schedule's coming out soon.
Speaker 2: Ryan Beauregard and the WPT team are working furiously on
Speaker 2: what's going to come up, and it's going to be great.
Speaker 2: No matter what, it's gonna be great. I expect to
Speaker 2: have more events this year than we've had in your past,
Speaker 2: and I hope and I am really working on Ryan
Speaker 2: very hard and Ray over at the win to have
Speaker 2: more mixing fames.
Speaker 1: Very cool, very cool. Well, we'll stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining me here and for
Speaker 1: everyone who wants to check out the t DA at
Speaker 1: Poker TDA on Twitter, slash xx, or just pokertda dot
Speaker 1: com on the web. Matt Savage appreciate you joining as always.
Speaker 2: And very much very happy Tim's not here. Happy you
Speaker 2: all right?
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully i'll talk to you soon, and hopefully i'll
Speaker 1: see you soon.
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good, Don, Thank you, Jenny,