WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.800 Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the Poker Go Podcast. My 2 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.120 name is Donny Peters and it's been a minute since 3 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.800 this show has come into your speakers, but we are back. 4 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:25.640 The post WSOP hiatus is all over. We're gonna start 5 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.399 getting back into the swing of things now. It's still 6 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.719 a little bit quiet on the Poker Go and the 7 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.799 PGT front. So what we're going to try and do 8 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:36.320 over the next little bit something that I've been meaning 9 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.880 to do a little bit more of on this show, 10 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:42.759 and that's got some longer interviews on the podcast. Of course, 11 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:45.719 you know, during the w soop we're able to grab 12 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:48.240 people for some quick sound bites here and there. On 13 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.920 some breaks, we're able to get winners. Of course after 14 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.280 they you know, win bracelets, win a boatload of money, 15 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:55.240 all that sort of stuff. But hopefully hear you know, 16 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.679 we can start diving into some longer stuff with some 17 00:00:57.759 --> 00:00:59.880 specific people that I kind of want to have some 18 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.920 conversations with. You know, the summer chaos is now behind us. 19 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.840 Things have calmed down a little bit, so that's going 20 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:10.200 to be the goal, hopefully over these next couple shows, 21 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:12.480 maybe even to carry us through the whole year. So 22 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:14.920 hopefully you know now that I put that out there, 23 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.680 I can actually deliver on it and not fail on 24 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.359 that goal. First up, I was able to speak recently 25 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.840 with Matt Savage. He's a good friend, listener of the podcast, 26 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:28.560 he's an industry colleague. He's seen just about everything there 27 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:33.280 is to see in poker. If you're on poker social media, 28 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.719 you likely know Matt at Savage Poker. He's constantly talking 29 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:41.280 about ruling tournament stuff, this and that. He's the founder 30 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:46.439 of the Tournament Directors Association, also known as the TDA, 31 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:48.799 and that's really what I wanted to speak to him about. 32 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.519 So the TDA, it has a sum at every two years, 33 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.000 but as I told him, I always get the sense 34 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.799 of the TDA summ that it comes. People talk about 35 00:01:57.799 --> 00:01:59.719 it for a couple of days, for a week, you know, 36 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.359 it's on social media, there's some chatter, but then it 37 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.879 just goes away. Nothing really happens. There's not a ton 38 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.400 of conversation about it. You know, a couple of years ago, 39 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:12.360 by the some what's gonna happen again, There's some conversation 40 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:14.680 about it, and then it goes away again, and this 41 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.680 cycle just kind of repeats. So hopefully this conversation that 42 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.919 I'm going to have with Matt sheds some further light 43 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.520 on what's happening within the TDA, how some hot topics 44 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:28.599 and poker such as solvers, play clocks, face coverings, you know, 45 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:32.360 big blind anti first or big blind first or anti first, 46 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.000 stuff like that. You know how, that's all being discussed 47 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.840 by different tournament staff members tournament officials around the world. 48 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:43.159 Before we jump into that discussion, though, I do need 49 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:45.759 to remind you that the Poker Gol podcast is brought 50 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:48.400 to you in part by storm x. The easiest way 51 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:51.639 to earn crypto just head over to storm x dot 52 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.800 io to activate cash back offers, then shop online as 53 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:58.439 normal through eligible vendors. You can find that all over 54 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:01.759 at storm x dot io and you can earn crypto 55 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.439 cash back on confirmed purchases. There are a variety of 56 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.680 tokens available to earn bitcoin, dogecoin, and much more. Earning 57 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.919 crypto doesn't have to be hard with storm x. Earning 58 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.599 crypto is easy. Now that we got that out of 59 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:19.039 the way, paid some bills of course, you know, got 60 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.120 to take care of the housekeeping items. Let's get into 61 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:26.520 that conversation that I had with Matt Savage. All right, 62 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:31.080 it's my pleasure to bring in Matt Savage, WPT executive 63 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:35.240 tour director, Poker TDA founder, and I will add all 64 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:39.319 around just kind of tournament director extraordinary. If there's been 65 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:41.400 a ruling out there, this guy has probably seen it. 66 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:43.639 He's probably ruled it. He might have even wrote writ 67 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.319 the rule book on it. Okay, So Matt Savage, Welcome 68 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.719 to the show. 69 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:50.520 How are you, thanks, Tony? Good to see. Yeah, been 70 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.240 this busy summer, even though I didn't end up playing 71 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.560 as much as I want to, but a lot of 72 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.719 stuff going on. We had the TDA Summit right there 73 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.400 in the Poker Ghost studio, so I want to thank 74 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.840 you by thanking you and Tim and Maury of course 75 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.000 for hosting us there. It was amazing a couple of days. Yeah. 76 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:12.039 I mean that's gonna be the general topic that we're 77 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:15.400 talking about today, a kind of all things TDA. As 78 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.519 I reached out to you, you know, I always feel 79 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.120 like the TDA comes and goes every couple of years. 80 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:23.000 It gets kind of some play on social media, largely 81 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.680 from you, you know, champion the conversation and whatnot, and 82 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:27.720 then it kind of goes away, you know, like and 83 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.680 it's like, what what happened? What's the result? What are 84 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.399 what can things that players can expect or even you know, 85 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.759 industry people like myself, What can we expect to come 86 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.160 out of this? So we're gonna hit on kind of 87 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:42.360 everything TDA related, you know, what people can expect. Maybe 88 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.040 there's nothing to expect. I don't know, you know, I 89 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:45.480 would like to know all that sort of stuff. So 90 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.959 hopefully we can ask some good questions here and get 91 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.759 some some good answers. It's also pretty timely, you know, 92 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:54.639 coming off the summer, that's when everything is focused on, 93 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:56.439 of course the World Series of Poker, but poker in 94 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.199 general is just very focused and the conversation is much louder. 95 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.920 We have obviously the whole laptop gate thing coming out 96 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:04.600 of the World Series of Poker. You know that was 97 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:08.079 post TDA summit, so you know, all that sort of stuff. 98 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.279 I guess before we get into you know, some of 99 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:11.920 the questions that I have and some of the topics 100 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:14.839 I want to hit on, can you just go over 101 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.079 like what the TDA is, when did it get started, 102 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:20.079 how did it get started? And then big picture, what's 103 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:21.279 the goal from the TDA. 104 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.199 Yeah, Ternam director Association started in two thousand and one, 105 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:27.759 and basically it was a result of me playing tournaments 106 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.959 and around the Bay Area where I lived, and all 107 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.360 the rules were different wherever I went. So I had 108 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:35.839 this fanciful idea that I was going to come down 109 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.959 to the World Series of Poker. First time I ever 110 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.720 walked into the World Series Poker was in two thousand 111 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.839 and one, and went up to the tournament director, Bob 112 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.199 Thompson and his son Robert, and said, Hey, I would 113 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.800 really like to try and get some poker rules standardized, 114 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.000 like for tournaments, because we had Roberts rules out there, 115 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.199 but we didn't have anything for tournaments, and like I said, 116 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:57.000 they were different everywhere we went. So I said, let's 117 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:58.839 try and get this done, and basically I was told 118 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.120 that's been tried you for, it's never going to happen. Well, luckily, 119 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:04.720 Linda Johnson had this World Poker Industry conference that was 120 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.160 going on at the time, and so I asked her. 121 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:09.680 She was already a friend of mine, and I talked 122 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.639 to her into adding an extra day where we just 123 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:15.519 met with with tournament directors and carter managers from around 124 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.040 the country. And that year we had twenty five and 125 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.560 the idea really started from there. Basically, the goal of 126 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:24.399 the TDA is to always standardize the rules in the 127 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.879 interests of the players. So the players when they go 128 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.040 from casino to casino, property to property know what to 129 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.199 expect when they walk in there and they see that 130 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.240 they're using TDA rules, they know what to expect and 131 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.560 it makes a better playing environment for all of those 132 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:40.639 players and better for tournament directors, so they have a 133 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.920 source and a resource to go to and discuss the rules. 134 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.879 Now, the TDA founded by yourself, it isn't just you. 135 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.959 There's a board, right Who's on the board, you know, 136 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.319 so people can know kind of who they're getting involved with. 137 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.240 The original board members from myself, Linda Johnson, Jan Fisher, 138 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.680 and David Lamb and it's now grown. We just added 139 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.600 Toby Stone from Poker Stars is here, but we have 140 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:07.319 both Neil Johnson and Lloyd found tell Us from the 141 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:12.360 Asian Poker Tour. We have devinir Campos from the Brazilian 142 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:15.240 series of Poker. Paul Campbell from Aria and Poker Goo 143 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.519 is also on the board, and Kenny Hollard, as a 144 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.319 player and a tournament director from Europe is also there 145 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:25.360 as well, and it's a conglomeration of all of those people. Also, 146 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:27.519 Linda and Jan are still a part of that, and 147 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.120 of course Mike Bishop, who is our TDA administrator, who 148 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:31.959 does a lot of the work to making sure that 149 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.480 the website gets updated and all those rules get done 150 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:38.959 and updated along with our TDA certification. And so maybe 151 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:41.199 you know the main goal of the TDA this make 152 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.000 standardization for all players and tournament. 153 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.839 Directors just quickly on the website pokertda dot com for 154 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:48.639 anyone that wants to go out there and check in 155 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.920 on things, see the rules and whatnot. Pokertda dot com 156 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.720 is where all of that can be found. Does the 157 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.879 board change often? Do new people get added often? 158 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.360 Or how does that work? We've added We used to 159 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:04.720 have Johnny Grooms and tab dou Chateau from Bogata and 160 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:08.040 Johnny was at MGM and Bauravage back in the day. 161 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.600 They've both stepped down because they've stepped into other areas 162 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.600 they're not really focused on poker anymore. So, Yeah, the 163 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:15.199 board hasn't only changed in the fact that we've had 164 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.519 people step down and then we've added people to it. 165 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:19.639 Now we have a lot of interest and a lot 166 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:21.360 of people that really want to step up and be 167 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:23.560 on the board, but I think at some point you 168 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:26.439 had to have too many. And we'll make those decisions 169 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:29.759 over time on whether we need to replace people or 170 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.160 have people step up and be a part of it. 171 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.360 But my goal was always to get a global so, 172 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.519 you know, having somebody in South America, having somebody in Asia, 173 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.600 having somebody in Europe, and you know, you know the 174 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:43.919 United States in Canada is something that I always thought 175 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.120 was important to the TDA. We've kind of achieved that 176 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.559 at this point, so you know, covering all corners of 177 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:49.679 the globe is super important. 178 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:53.000 And a lot of those different Global board members also 179 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:56.039 just members in general. They come to the TDA summit, right, 180 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:57.919 I mean, there's people from all over that come to 181 00:08:57.960 --> 00:08:58.799 this thing. It's not just. 182 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:01.600 People from Vegas. Might have been our biggest ever. We 183 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:06.000 had one hundred and seventy not only tournament directors, but 184 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:12.120 carter managers and property managers and players and dealers, and 185 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:14.159 we had a pretty wide array. We even had some 186 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.639 poker media there as well. So I'm you know, that 187 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.720 always is what I want. I want it to be 188 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.360 for everybody, you know, I want the dealers to be 189 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.480 able to understand and follow the TDA rules and the 190 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:27.320 players and I definitely want their input. Years past, we 191 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:29.559 used to get people saying that it's made up of 192 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:32.279 only tournament directors, but to be honest, most of the 193 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.000 people that are tournament directors and most people that attend 194 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.360 also play poker tournaments. So that's something that I always 195 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:40.679 tried to get rid of because it wasn't true. But 196 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.159 poker players are always invited to come out there, and 197 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:45.120 I know it's a busy time of year during the summer, 198 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.679 but I know that everybody's going to be in town 199 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.159 as well. So there are those players that do come 200 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.960 to the summit and add their input, but most of 201 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.279 that has done in advance, where players are sending me 202 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.919 feedback and sending me information, sending me rules that they 203 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.799 think need to be changed or could be possibly changed, 204 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:02.799 and that's how I get a lot of our stuff 205 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:03.440 for the TDA. 206 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.559 So the TDA was held for the eleventh time this 207 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.639 past summer at the Poker Studio. As you mentioned, it 208 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.840 takes place every couple of years, well every two years really, 209 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:14.600 but there was, of course the COVID year that threw 210 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.960 things off a little bit. First thing I guess is 211 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.440 does it need to be more often than every two years, 212 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:22.960 just with how fast everything seems to move these days. 213 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.080 Well, here's what happened last year. Last year, I actually 214 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.960 had an event in Korea and I stopped by Japan 215 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.200 because people in Asia had asked me, and Japan had 216 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.000 asked me, why don't you ever have a TDA summit 217 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:38.240 in Asia. So a guy over there put it together 218 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:40.799 and it's sold out in fifteen minutes. We had one 219 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.080 hundred tournament directors, dealers and people from the industry in 220 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.799 Japan last year. In my opinion, what I think we 221 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.159 need to do is just have more of an international 222 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.159 one every year and then have the main TDA summit 223 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:56.080 in Vegas every two years. So I'm all about that. 224 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.720 We have some people that are in Taiwan now that 225 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:02.320 are looking to maybe do another one, even sooner than 226 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.840 the middle of next year, and I think we'll do that. So, 227 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.279 you know, with poker being a real global game and 228 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.120 it's really exciting to see that so many people care 229 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.000 and are so passionate about the rules of poker, I 230 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.399 think that we should do more of those, and I 231 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:16.399 think that we will in the near future. I would 232 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.240 love to do it in Latin America. Of course Europe 233 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.320 as well would be a big hot spot. Even maybe India, 234 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:25.240 South Africa or an Africa would be a great one 235 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:27.480 as well. You know, there's just so many people that 236 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.000 care about the game, and you know, we get reached 237 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.080 out to by everybody and you'll get pulled in a 238 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.080 bunch of different directions. But I would like to make 239 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:35.919 something more standards. So I do like that idea that 240 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:36.080 you have. 241 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.919 All Right, So, coming out of this year's summits, what 242 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.480 are the big changes? Are the big topics that are 243 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.159 looking to be addressed, things that players can maybe expect 244 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:45.879 to be kind of coming down the pipeline. 245 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.399 Well, it's funny that we had this conversation over the 246 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.879 last couple of years about the big blind ante and 247 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.320 what should go first? Should it go big blind anti 248 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.039 first or anti first. It's to me such a trivial 249 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.159 part of one rule that has made poker infinitely better, 250 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.879 and it basically started right there at the Poker Ghost studio. 251 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:06.120 So thank you to the high Rollers and Paul Campbell 252 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.320 for that. But you know, I was really instrumental in 253 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:10.600 popularizing that. But one of the things I felt really 254 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.120 strongly about was that the Anti should come first, and 255 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:15.840 ANTI is supposed to go first. It always has and 256 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.399 I still feel that to this day. But the fact 257 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:21.200 that the World Series was doing it different than the WPT, 258 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.919 the Asian Poker Tour was doing different than Poker Stars, really, 259 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.000 to me is something that it's such a small part 260 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.679 of a great addition to the poker industry that I 261 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:33.399 wanted to get it all the same, and I pushed 262 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:36.360 for it two years ago right there at the Poker 263 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:38.799 Studio as well, and couldn't get it past the line. 264 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.879 This time, I really really pushed and pushed and pushed, 265 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:43.399 and I knew that it was never going to be 266 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.200 Anti first because the WSP wasn't doing that way, and 267 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:49.480 you know some other big places Poker Stars had gone 268 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.759 to Big Blind first. So I really wanted to focus 269 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:53.879 on making it the same for everybody, and that was 270 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.360 one that we got over the line, and I'm happy 271 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.399 that we did that, and a lot of people were 272 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.840 holding out to the bitter end, but in the end 273 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.600 we all put that vote up and it got done. 274 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.360 Another one that has kind of become even a bigger 275 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:10.120 deal since then was the use of solvers was the 276 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.200 use of graphs at the table and the use of 277 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.399 cell phones, and a big, big conversation sprung out of 278 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.879 that as to what we're going to do. I always 279 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.639 say that we're going to have this conversation every two years. 280 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:23.519 It's going to come up again in two years, and 281 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.440 just so happens that it comes up more and more 282 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:29.200 often these days. There are some scandals out there in 283 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:32.679 poker that have not fully broken, about people using devices 284 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.039 on the table to look at what the whole cards 285 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.399 are when they're coming off the deck and seeing these 286 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:39.159 things are going to break. And these are the things 287 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:42.519 that the TDA is super focused on because you know, 288 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.320 if one of those things happens and it becomes a 289 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.200 pattern or it becomes more common, it really could ruin 290 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.000 our game. And we all love this game. We don't 291 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.600 want that to happen. So cell phones on the table 292 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.720 was one of the things we really talked about about 293 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.600 getting those removed. I know that not everybody in the 294 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.879 room could agree, and that's the way that TDA works. 295 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.559 If we don't get everybody to agree one way or another, 296 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.960 it doesn't become a TDA rule. But for me and 297 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.159 my focus, I really believe that, you know, cell phones 298 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:12.200 are going to have to be turned off when you're 299 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.200 not in a hand and you can't look at them 300 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:16.960 and see if you're looking at a graph or a 301 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:19.600 chart before the next hand begins. So that's one of 302 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:21.519 those things I would really like to see happen. It 303 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.399 hasn't happened yet, so I am really focused on using 304 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.240 what the rule that the Wind has already. They have 305 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:29.919 one in place where where solvers and charts are not 306 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.679 allowed in the entire tournament area. And the discussion came 307 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.080 up from David lappin what is the tournament area? Is 308 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.320 it behind the rail, is it out of the room? 309 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.720 Is it behind you know, when you're going to the restroom? 310 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.159 Is it Where is the tournament area? And that was 311 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.120 just another discussion. I thought it was a little bit silly, 312 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.600 but yeah, I think that using what the wind wind 313 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.480 does is something I would like to bring to the 314 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.559 WPT and of course to the TDA as well. It 315 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:57.360 just didn't get settled this year, but it was a 316 00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:58.039 big discussion. 317 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.519 Let me just quickly hit on the tournament area thing, 318 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.000 because the Wind's a good example of this. So when 319 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.559 the WPT World Championship takes place, it's in the ballroom 320 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:10.559 area largely, and that is like a completely separate area, 321 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.480 and you could almost assign that entire area of the 322 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:17.360 property to quote unquote tournament area. But I play at 323 00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:19.679 the win A lot and the normal stuff is right 324 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.399 outside the poker room in an area that is sometimes 325 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.399 slot machine, sometimes poker tables. You can literally be a 326 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:27.879 poker table, and then five feet away is just a 327 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:31.639 regular walkway where like kids can walk on. So it's like, 328 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.440 that's not a gaming floor, it's just a walkway. So like, 329 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.600 can I literally just be five feet away from that 330 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.360 table on my phone? Looking at a chart, you would 331 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:42.120 think no, right, But if the rule is quote unquote 332 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:43.919 tournament area, that's where it can get gray, and then 333 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:45.480 people can be like, well, I'm not in the tournament area. 334 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:46.879 Yes you are, No, you're not, and then you can 335 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.960 just kind of go back and forth. So it's it's tricky. 336 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.960 I'm not sure there is a solution yet for any 337 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.559 of this sort of stuff. It's hard. I know that 338 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.240 we had the whole Jonathan Tomiow, Dominic Nische, Joe mckeean 339 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.559 situation from the wsp Man event FALM table, and that's 340 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.919 what everyone's pointing to. But I will also say that 341 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.320 isn't the first time that this has happened to the WSIP. 342 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:08.120 There was some photos out there, some videos out there 343 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.120 from earlier in the summer. Walking through the fields myself, 344 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.120 I saw people on their stuff all the time. I mean, 345 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:16.960 it's it's it's very tricky. Part of it for me 346 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.440 is it's a question of manpower, Like there's just not 347 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.120 enough tournament staff, especially if the wz AP as an example, 348 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.039 or even the WPT at the wind or any other massive, 349 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.039 massive tournament where there's like one hundred tables in play 350 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:30.879 and there's five tournament directors. I mean, how are you 351 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.320 gonna police everything? And then and then it's does everyone 352 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:35.919 know what they're looking for? What if they don't know 353 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.039 what they're looking for? What if they disguise things? What 354 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:39.720 if you say to a player, What if you walk 355 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.200 up to a player, Matt, you walk up to me 356 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:42.879 and you say, hey, I noticed you might be on 357 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:44.600 a chart, and I see your phone. I say no, Like, 358 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.559 what are you going to take my phone from me? No, 359 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:48.000 you're not, Like, I'm not gonna let you. And I 360 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.879 put in my pocket and I'm gonna say no. Liken, 361 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.600 Then what do you do? Do you just suspend me 362 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.399 or give me a penalty based on an assumption that 363 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:56.720 I might have been on something? What if I was 364 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.279 looking at my stock chart that looked similar. You know, 365 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.240 It's like it gets very tricky and very gray. I 366 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.000 do think that there does need to be heavy enforcement 367 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:09.319 on it. It's just like when does that enforcement get 368 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.319 levied because it can be very tricky and not everything 369 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:13.160 can be understood. 370 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.200 Yeah, and here's what I say. I mean, honestly, having 371 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.839 the rule in place itself is a discouragement for people 372 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.480 to use it. So you know, people are going to say, hey, 373 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.240 that's against the rules. I shouldn't be doing that, Right, 374 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.279 So if I tell you you can't do it, and 375 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.319 then you choose to do it after you're told that 376 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.480 you can't, that is a discouragement enough to maybe where 377 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.400 you catch somebody doing those types of things. But again, 378 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.039 I think it's something that we were just trying to 379 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:43.480 get out of the area itself. And again there are 380 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.559 those even tournament directors out there, good friends of mine, 381 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.559 that will say it doesn't help people as much as 382 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.119 people think it's not that big of a deal. One 383 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:55.200 guy even told me we should pass out charts to 384 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.720 everybody that plays in the tournament and just get it 385 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.599 out there in the open. I'm opposed to that. I 386 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.319 think it's bad. Obviously, there's a lot of discussions about 387 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:08.000 the opsticts how it looks. Is it cheating, is it 388 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:10.400 not cheating. I mean, I'm not on the side of 389 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:12.200 it was cheating. I'm not on the side it was. 390 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.000 You know, I was definitely on the side that it's 391 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:19.319 optically bad. There are people that play in tournaments all 392 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:23.480 the time that feel like they are less informed, less 393 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.960 likely to win, less likely to be able to compete 394 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.119 because these things exist. So that type of thing I 395 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.279 really want to get away from the area. And I 396 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.200 understand that there's a lot of coaches out there, there's 397 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.160 a lot of people that are in the industry. There's 398 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.000 a lot of people that are trying to learn how 399 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.279 to play poker better, which I am all for. I'm 400 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.680 all for all of those things. I'm just saying that, 401 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.440