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Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the Poker Go Podcast. My

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name is Donny Peters and it's been a minute since

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this show has come into your speakers, but we are back.

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The post WSOP hiatus is all over. We're gonna start

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getting back into the swing of things now. It's still

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a little bit quiet on the Poker Go and the

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PGT front. So what we're going to try and do

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over the next little bit something that I've been meaning

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to do a little bit more of on this show,

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and that's got some longer interviews on the podcast. Of course,

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you know, during the w soop we're able to grab

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people for some quick sound bites here and there. On

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some breaks, we're able to get winners. Of course after

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they you know, win bracelets, win a boatload of money,

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all that sort of stuff. But hopefully hear you know,

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we can start diving into some longer stuff with some

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specific people that I kind of want to have some

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conversations with. You know, the summer chaos is now behind us.

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Things have calmed down a little bit, so that's going

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to be the goal, hopefully over these next couple shows,

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maybe even to carry us through the whole year. So

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hopefully you know now that I put that out there,

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I can actually deliver on it and not fail on

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that goal. First up, I was able to speak recently

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with Matt Savage. He's a good friend, listener of the podcast,

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he's an industry colleague. He's seen just about everything there

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is to see in poker. If you're on poker social media,

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you likely know Matt at Savage Poker. He's constantly talking

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about ruling tournament stuff, this and that. He's the founder

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of the Tournament Directors Association, also known as the TDA,

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and that's really what I wanted to speak to him about.

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So the TDA, it has a sum at every two years,

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but as I told him, I always get the sense

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of the TDA summ that it comes. People talk about

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it for a couple of days, for a week, you know,

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it's on social media, there's some chatter, but then it

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just goes away. Nothing really happens. There's not a ton

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of conversation about it. You know, a couple of years ago,

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by the some what's gonna happen again, There's some conversation

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about it, and then it goes away again, and this

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cycle just kind of repeats. So hopefully this conversation that

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I'm going to have with Matt sheds some further light

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on what's happening within the TDA, how some hot topics

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and poker such as solvers, play clocks, face coverings, you know,

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big blind anti first or big blind first or anti first,

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stuff like that. You know how, that's all being discussed

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by different tournament staff members tournament officials around the world.

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Before we jump into that discussion, though, I do need

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crypto is easy. Now that we got that out of

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the way, paid some bills of course, you know, got

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to take care of the housekeeping items. Let's get into

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that conversation that I had with Matt Savage. All right,

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it's my pleasure to bring in Matt Savage, WPT executive

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tour director, Poker TDA founder, and I will add all

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around just kind of tournament director extraordinary. If there's been

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a ruling out there, this guy has probably seen it.

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He's probably ruled it. He might have even wrote writ

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the rule book on it. Okay, So Matt Savage, Welcome

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to the show.

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Speaker 2: How are you, thanks, Tony? Good to see. Yeah, been

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this busy summer, even though I didn't end up playing

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as much as I want to, but a lot of

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stuff going on. We had the TDA Summit right there

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in the Poker Ghost studio, so I want to thank

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you by thanking you and Tim and Maury of course

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for hosting us there. It was amazing a couple of days. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's gonna be the general topic that we're

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talking about today, a kind of all things TDA. As

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I reached out to you, you know, I always feel

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like the TDA comes and goes every couple of years.

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It gets kind of some play on social media, largely

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from you, you know, champion the conversation and whatnot, and

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then it kind of goes away, you know, like and

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it's like, what what happened? What's the result? What are

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what can things that players can expect or even you know,

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industry people like myself, What can we expect to come

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out of this? So we're gonna hit on kind of

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everything TDA related, you know, what people can expect. Maybe

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there's nothing to expect. I don't know, you know, I

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would like to know all that sort of stuff. So

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hopefully we can ask some good questions here and get

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some some good answers. It's also pretty timely, you know,

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coming off the summer, that's when everything is focused on,

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of course the World Series of Poker, but poker in

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general is just very focused and the conversation is much louder.

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We have obviously the whole laptop gate thing coming out

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of the World Series of Poker. You know that was

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post TDA summit, so you know, all that sort of stuff.

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I guess before we get into you know, some of

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the questions that I have and some of the topics

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I want to hit on, can you just go over

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like what the TDA is, when did it get started,

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how did it get started? And then big picture, what's

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the goal from the TDA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ternam director Association started in two thousand and one,

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and basically it was a result of me playing tournaments

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and around the Bay Area where I lived, and all

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the rules were different wherever I went. So I had

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this fanciful idea that I was going to come down

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to the World Series of Poker. First time I ever

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walked into the World Series Poker was in two thousand

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and one, and went up to the tournament director, Bob

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Thompson and his son Robert, and said, Hey, I would

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really like to try and get some poker rules standardized,

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like for tournaments, because we had Roberts rules out there,

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but we didn't have anything for tournaments, and like I said,

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they were different everywhere we went. So I said, let's

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try and get this done, and basically I was told

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that's been tried you for, it's never going to happen. Well, luckily,

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Linda Johnson had this World Poker Industry conference that was

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going on at the time, and so I asked her.

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She was already a friend of mine, and I talked

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to her into adding an extra day where we just

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met with with tournament directors and carter managers from around

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the country. And that year we had twenty five and

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the idea really started from there. Basically, the goal of

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the TDA is to always standardize the rules in the

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interests of the players. So the players when they go

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from casino to casino, property to property know what to

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expect when they walk in there and they see that

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they're using TDA rules, they know what to expect and

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it makes a better playing environment for all of those

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players and better for tournament directors, so they have a

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source and a resource to go to and discuss the rules.

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Speaker 1: Now, the TDA founded by yourself, it isn't just you.

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There's a board, right Who's on the board, you know,

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so people can know kind of who they're getting involved with.

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Speaker 2: The original board members from myself, Linda Johnson, Jan Fisher,

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and David Lamb and it's now grown. We just added

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Toby Stone from Poker Stars is here, but we have

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both Neil Johnson and Lloyd found tell Us from the

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Asian Poker Tour. We have devinir Campos from the Brazilian

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series of Poker. Paul Campbell from Aria and Poker Goo

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is also on the board, and Kenny Hollard, as a

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player and a tournament director from Europe is also there

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as well, and it's a conglomeration of all of those people. Also,

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Linda and Jan are still a part of that, and

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of course Mike Bishop, who is our TDA administrator, who

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does a lot of the work to making sure that

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the website gets updated and all those rules get done

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and updated along with our TDA certification. And so maybe

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you know the main goal of the TDA this make

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standardization for all players and tournament.

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Speaker 1: Directors just quickly on the website pokertda dot com for

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anyone that wants to go out there and check in

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on things, see the rules and whatnot. Pokertda dot com

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is where all of that can be found. Does the

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board change often? Do new people get added often?

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Speaker 2: Or how does that work? We've added We used to

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have Johnny Grooms and tab dou Chateau from Bogata and

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Johnny was at MGM and Bauravage back in the day.

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They've both stepped down because they've stepped into other areas

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they're not really focused on poker anymore. So, Yeah, the

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board hasn't only changed in the fact that we've had

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people step down and then we've added people to it.

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Now we have a lot of interest and a lot

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of people that really want to step up and be

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on the board, but I think at some point you

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had to have too many. And we'll make those decisions

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over time on whether we need to replace people or

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have people step up and be a part of it.

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But my goal was always to get a global so,

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you know, having somebody in South America, having somebody in Asia,

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having somebody in Europe, and you know, you know the

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United States in Canada is something that I always thought

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was important to the TDA. We've kind of achieved that

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at this point, so you know, covering all corners of

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the globe is super important.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of those different Global board members also

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just members in general. They come to the TDA summit, right,

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I mean, there's people from all over that come to

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this thing. It's not just.

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Speaker 2: People from Vegas. Might have been our biggest ever. We

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had one hundred and seventy not only tournament directors, but

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carter managers and property managers and players and dealers, and

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we had a pretty wide array. We even had some

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poker media there as well. So I'm you know, that

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always is what I want. I want it to be

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for everybody, you know, I want the dealers to be

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able to understand and follow the TDA rules and the

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players and I definitely want their input. Years past, we

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used to get people saying that it's made up of

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only tournament directors, but to be honest, most of the

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people that are tournament directors and most people that attend

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also play poker tournaments. So that's something that I always

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tried to get rid of because it wasn't true. But

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poker players are always invited to come out there, and

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I know it's a busy time of year during the summer,

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but I know that everybody's going to be in town

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as well. So there are those players that do come

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to the summit and add their input, but most of

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that has done in advance, where players are sending me

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feedback and sending me information, sending me rules that they

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think need to be changed or could be possibly changed,

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and that's how I get a lot of our stuff

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for the TDA.

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Speaker 1: So the TDA was held for the eleventh time this

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past summer at the Poker Studio. As you mentioned, it

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takes place every couple of years, well every two years really,

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but there was, of course the COVID year that threw

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things off a little bit. First thing I guess is

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does it need to be more often than every two years,

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just with how fast everything seems to move these days.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's what happened last year. Last year, I actually

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had an event in Korea and I stopped by Japan

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because people in Asia had asked me, and Japan had

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asked me, why don't you ever have a TDA summit

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in Asia. So a guy over there put it together

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and it's sold out in fifteen minutes. We had one

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hundred tournament directors, dealers and people from the industry in

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Japan last year. In my opinion, what I think we

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need to do is just have more of an international

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one every year and then have the main TDA summit

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in Vegas every two years. So I'm all about that.

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We have some people that are in Taiwan now that

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are looking to maybe do another one, even sooner than

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the middle of next year, and I think we'll do that. So,

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you know, with poker being a real global game and

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it's really exciting to see that so many people care

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and are so passionate about the rules of poker, I

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think that we should do more of those, and I

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think that we will in the near future. I would

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love to do it in Latin America. Of course Europe

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as well would be a big hot spot. Even maybe India,

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South Africa or an Africa would be a great one

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as well. You know, there's just so many people that

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care about the game, and you know, we get reached

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out to by everybody and you'll get pulled in a

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bunch of different directions. But I would like to make

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something more standards. So I do like that idea that

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you have.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So, coming out of this year's summits, what

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are the big changes? Are the big topics that are

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looking to be addressed, things that players can maybe expect

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to be kind of coming down the pipeline.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that we had this conversation over the

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last couple of years about the big blind ante and

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what should go first? Should it go big blind anti

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first or anti first. It's to me such a trivial

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part of one rule that has made poker infinitely better,

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and it basically started right there at the Poker Ghost studio.

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So thank you to the high Rollers and Paul Campbell

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for that. But you know, I was really instrumental in

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popularizing that. But one of the things I felt really

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strongly about was that the Anti should come first, and

255
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ANTI is supposed to go first. It always has and

256
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I still feel that to this day. But the fact

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that the World Series was doing it different than the WPT,

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the Asian Poker Tour was doing different than Poker Stars, really,

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to me is something that it's such a small part

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of a great addition to the poker industry that I

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wanted to get it all the same, and I pushed

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for it two years ago right there at the Poker

263
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Studio as well, and couldn't get it past the line.

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This time, I really really pushed and pushed and pushed,

265
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and I knew that it was never going to be

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Anti first because the WSP wasn't doing that way, and

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you know some other big places Poker Stars had gone

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to Big Blind first. So I really wanted to focus

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on making it the same for everybody, and that was

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one that we got over the line, and I'm happy

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that we did that, and a lot of people were

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holding out to the bitter end, but in the end

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we all put that vote up and it got done.

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Another one that has kind of become even a bigger

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deal since then was the use of solvers was the

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use of graphs at the table and the use of

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cell phones, and a big, big conversation sprung out of

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that as to what we're going to do. I always

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say that we're going to have this conversation every two years.

280
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It's going to come up again in two years, and

281
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just so happens that it comes up more and more

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often these days. There are some scandals out there in

283
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poker that have not fully broken, about people using devices

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on the table to look at what the whole cards

285
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are when they're coming off the deck and seeing these

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things are going to break. And these are the things

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that the TDA is super focused on because you know,

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if one of those things happens and it becomes a

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pattern or it becomes more common, it really could ruin

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our game. And we all love this game. We don't

291
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want that to happen. So cell phones on the table

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was one of the things we really talked about about

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getting those removed. I know that not everybody in the

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room could agree, and that's the way that TDA works.

295
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If we don't get everybody to agree one way or another,

296
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it doesn't become a TDA rule. But for me and

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my focus, I really believe that, you know, cell phones

298
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are going to have to be turned off when you're

299
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,200
not in a hand and you can't look at them

300
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,960
and see if you're looking at a graph or a

301
00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:19,600
chart before the next hand begins. So that's one of

302
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those things I would really like to see happen. It

303
00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:24,399
hasn't happened yet, so I am really focused on using

304
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what the rule that the Wind has already. They have

305
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one in place where where solvers and charts are not

306
00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:33,679
allowed in the entire tournament area. And the discussion came

307
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,080
up from David lappin what is the tournament area? Is

308
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,320
it behind the rail, is it out of the room?

309
00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:42,720
Is it behind you know, when you're going to the restroom?

310
00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:45,159
Is it Where is the tournament area? And that was

311
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just another discussion. I thought it was a little bit silly,

312
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but yeah, I think that using what the wind wind

313
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:52,480
does is something I would like to bring to the

314
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WPT and of course to the TDA as well. It

315
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just didn't get settled this year, but it was a

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big discussion.

317
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Speaker 1: Let me just quickly hit on the tournament area thing,

318
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because the Wind's a good example of this. So when

319
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,559
the WPT World Championship takes place, it's in the ballroom

320
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:10,559
area largely, and that is like a completely separate area,

321
00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:13,480
and you could almost assign that entire area of the

322
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property to quote unquote tournament area. But I play at

323
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,679
the win A lot and the normal stuff is right

324
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outside the poker room in an area that is sometimes

325
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,399
slot machine, sometimes poker tables. You can literally be a

326
00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:27,879
poker table, and then five feet away is just a

327
00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:31,639
regular walkway where like kids can walk on. So it's like,

328
00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:34,440
that's not a gaming floor, it's just a walkway. So like,

329
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,600
can I literally just be five feet away from that

330
00:15:36,679 --> 00:15:39,360
table on my phone? Looking at a chart, you would

331
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think no, right, But if the rule is quote unquote

332
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,919
tournament area, that's where it can get gray, and then

333
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,480
people can be like, well, I'm not in the tournament area.

334
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:46,879
Yes you are, No, you're not, and then you can

335
00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:49,960
just kind of go back and forth. So it's it's tricky.

336
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960
I'm not sure there is a solution yet for any

337
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,559
of this sort of stuff. It's hard. I know that

338
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,240
we had the whole Jonathan Tomiow, Dominic Nische, Joe mckeean

339
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,559
situation from the wsp Man event FALM table, and that's

340
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,919
what everyone's pointing to. But I will also say that

341
00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:05,320
isn't the first time that this has happened to the WSIP.

342
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,120
There was some photos out there, some videos out there

343
00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:11,120
from earlier in the summer. Walking through the fields myself,

344
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,120
I saw people on their stuff all the time. I mean,

345
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,960
it's it's it's very tricky. Part of it for me

346
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,440
is it's a question of manpower, Like there's just not

347
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:23,120
enough tournament staff, especially if the wz AP as an example,

348
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,039
or even the WPT at the wind or any other massive,

349
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,039
massive tournament where there's like one hundred tables in play

350
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,879
and there's five tournament directors. I mean, how are you

351
00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,320
gonna police everything? And then and then it's does everyone

352
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,919
know what they're looking for? What if they don't know

353
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:38,039
what they're looking for? What if they disguise things? What

354
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,720
if you say to a player, What if you walk

355
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:41,200
up to a player, Matt, you walk up to me

356
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,879
and you say, hey, I noticed you might be on

357
00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:44,600
a chart, and I see your phone. I say no, Like,

358
00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:46,559
what are you going to take my phone from me? No,

359
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:48,000
you're not, Like, I'm not gonna let you. And I

360
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,879
put in my pocket and I'm gonna say no. Liken,

361
00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:52,600
Then what do you do? Do you just suspend me

362
00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:55,399
or give me a penalty based on an assumption that

363
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,720
I might have been on something? What if I was

364
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,279
looking at my stock chart that looked similar. You know,

365
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,240
It's like it gets very tricky and very gray. I

366
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:05,000
do think that there does need to be heavy enforcement

367
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:09,319
on it. It's just like when does that enforcement get

368
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,319
levied because it can be very tricky and not everything

369
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:13,160
can be understood.

370
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's what I say. I mean, honestly, having

371
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,839
the rule in place itself is a discouragement for people

372
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,480
to use it. So you know, people are going to say, hey,

373
00:17:23,559 --> 00:17:26,240
that's against the rules. I shouldn't be doing that, Right,

374
00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:29,279
So if I tell you you can't do it, and

375
00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:32,319
then you choose to do it after you're told that

376
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,480
you can't, that is a discouragement enough to maybe where

377
00:17:35,519 --> 00:17:38,400
you catch somebody doing those types of things. But again,

378
00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:40,039
I think it's something that we were just trying to

379
00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:43,480
get out of the area itself. And again there are

380
00:17:43,519 --> 00:17:46,559
those even tournament directors out there, good friends of mine,

381
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,559
that will say it doesn't help people as much as

382
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:53,119
people think it's not that big of a deal. One

383
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,200
guy even told me we should pass out charts to

384
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,720
everybody that plays in the tournament and just get it

385
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,599
out there in the open. I'm opposed to that. I

386
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,319
think it's bad. Obviously, there's a lot of discussions about

387
00:18:05,319 --> 00:18:08,000
the opsticts how it looks. Is it cheating, is it

388
00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:10,400
not cheating. I mean, I'm not on the side of

389
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,200
it was cheating. I'm not on the side it was.

390
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,000
You know, I was definitely on the side that it's

391
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:19,319
optically bad. There are people that play in tournaments all

392
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,480
the time that feel like they are less informed, less

393
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,960
likely to win, less likely to be able to compete

394
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:30,119
because these things exist. So that type of thing I

395
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,279
really want to get away from the area. And I

396
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,200
understand that there's a lot of coaches out there, there's

397
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,160
a lot of people that are in the industry. There's

398
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,000
a lot of people that are trying to learn how

399
00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:42,279
to play poker better, which I am all for. I'm

400
00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:44,680
all for all of those things. I'm just saying that,

401
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,440
you know, for that recreational player that doesn't feel comfortable

402
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,359
in an event because some people are using these things,

403
00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:53,880
that's the person I want to protect. It's always a

404
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,359
person I'm trying to protect in these things.

405
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I play a

406
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,119
fair bent bit of poker myself. I study a lot

407
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,799
when I can on my time, my downtime. I use

408
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,480
these tools when I can. If I see someone at

409
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,039
the table using them, I particularly don't care. It kind

410
00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:14,559
of makes me understand what type of player I'm playing

411
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:16,839
against them. I say, Oh, your guy who looks at charts, Okay,

412
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,160
I know how you're going to play. Then you're going

413
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,880
to be a slave to the chart, Like that's what

414
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,000
you're gonna do. So I know you're going to probably

415
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,160
do things pretty correct in theory, so that I can

416
00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,519
just combat that. But I can also see the side

417
00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:30,920
of if you're someone who's just a complete recreational you're

418
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480
not really in tune with you know, modern poker theory

419
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,279
and study and that sort of stuff. You just basically

420
00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:38,880
play to play. You see somebody using these things, you're

421
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,000
thinking they're trying to get an advantage of you on you,

422
00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,960
and it can certainly scare you away. And also just

423
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:46,960
the the general fear that like people are putting out

424
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,119
there on social media, Like if you're kind of just

425
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,839
an onlooker from afar, you see all this sort of

426
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:54,759
stuff and that can also scare people, you know, optically speaking,

427
00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:56,759
that can really scare people away. And I think that's

428
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,559
that's a bad thing. You brought up the coaching aspect

429
00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:02,599
as well. I mean it's almost like if I were

430
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,720
to like go to a final table, let's say it's

431
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,519
at the Dabissity, just because that's where all this stuff

432
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:08,160
seemed to happen, that got a lot of conversation.

433
00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: I win championship, Win.

434
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:12,759
Speaker 1: Win championship. I would almost rather have like a Sean

435
00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:14,720
deeb on my rail who I can just walk over

436
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,240
and he can just literally say, Okay, this guy's doing this, this

437
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,119
is how you're going to combat it good Versus me

438
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,519
trying to go over to a laptop, look at a chart,

439
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:24,200
figure out what's happening in real time, go back to

440
00:20:24,279 --> 00:20:27,200
my seat, and then put that into motion because I've

441
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,480
done the start chart study and it's it's hard to

442
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:32,960
like just get it quickly and put it into motion immediately.

443
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:35,160
Versus if I go over there and Sean says, no,

444
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,480
you need to start limping. Okay, I'll just start limping

445
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,519
like And I'm using Shawn as an example because he's

446
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:42,079
been a coach on Final table rails before, but like that,

447
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,000
so then it's then it comes down to you know,

448
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,759
where do you draw the line? Can you just never

449
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:47,680
talk to a coach? Can you never go over to

450
00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:50,759
a rail? Are we going down the Poker Stars PCA

451
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,359
route from years ago? We're sequestering people at a final table?

452
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,920
How does like when does it stop? Where does it stop?

453
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,519
It's it's just a whole different can of worms that's

454
00:20:58,559 --> 00:20:59,279
being opened up.

455
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: And I put that up on Twitter recently in a

456
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:05,640
poll and basically I would love to see it where

457
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,160
there's no coaching allowed at these stream final tables. And

458
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,519
you know what does that mean during play? Not on

459
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,640
breaks some breaks, code, do whatever you want, go, get

460
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,240
coached up, do whatever you think is right. But to

461
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,839
have all these things out there and in the open

462
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,440
and at the win Championship. By the way, Ryan Beauregard

463
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,000
last year did not allow laptops in the final table area,

464
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:27,839
and I think it was a better experience. You know,

465
00:21:28,039 --> 00:21:30,519
we don't see people running to the tables. Of course,

466
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:35,039
at that Championship final table, we had six basically pros

467
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:38,359
there right, so their their charts and their knowledge is

468
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,160
all up there, so they're not going up there, But

469
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,640
are they getting information from people on the breaks? Likely

470
00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:45,720
they don't have their phones at the table, so that's

471
00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:48,519
one way to combat that. But at the same time,

472
00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:51,400
we didn't allow those laptops in the audience, and I

473
00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:52,799
just like I said, I think it makes for a

474
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,559
better experience. You want to go there as a player

475
00:21:56,599 --> 00:21:58,640
and have people come and sweat you and be a

476
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,519
fan and be a part of the excitement of that

477
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:04,400
final table where you can win life changing money. But

478
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,200
at the same time, do you need to have somebody

479
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:09,680
there coaching you after every hand or in between hands.

480
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,279
I prefer that happen on the break.

481
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,279
Speaker 1: Now the TDA some it took place before the WSPM

482
00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:17,720
and event final table happens, WSM event file table happens,

483
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:20,920
Jonathan Tomio wins. All this stuff blows up in a way.

484
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,920
It's kind of sucks that it's taken the spotlight away

485
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,599
from Tomayow and his accomplishment because everyone's pointing to this

486
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,920
one incident. But how has like the has there been

487
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,400
a lot of outreach from fellow tournament directors since that

488
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,920
PEMAM final table. I know the summit had happened already,

489
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,079
and you obviously talk about this sort of thing. But

490
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440
now it's right back in everyone's face on the biggest

491
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,359
age in poker. So you know, what's the conversation like now?

492
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,000
Is it constantly texting emailing about this sort of thing?

493
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:45,640
What's going on?

494
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a group chat with all the people

495
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,640
that are on the TDA board and we discussed it,

496
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,920
you know, not at length, i'd say, but we did

497
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,599
discuss it, and people that were around didn't really realize

498
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,359
that it was going on at the time. What was

499
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,880
happening at the time time, And like I, like you said,

500
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,960
Tomorow deserve to win. Obviously he got lucky in a

501
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:05,960
lot of spots.

502
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,079
Speaker 1: Or somebody elaid you be lucky to win a poker tournament.

503
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a lot of great plays as well.

504
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,680
So did he deserve to win? Absolutely? Did he cheat?

505
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,039
I don't think so. But you know, I think that

506
00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:17,960
if people were more aware of what was happening, he

507
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,680
probably would have stopped. And would those guys have been

508
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,000
in the audience stopped had somebody told them to do so, Yes,

509
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,920
they would have. You know, Dominic has said that he's

510
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,599
backed off his original stance. Joe McKeon, it was just

511
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:31,519
so great to see him come out of his shell.

512
00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:34,559
I've never seen him so I animated in my life,

513
00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:36,680
so I was always good to see as well. But

514
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,599
you know, like I said, those guys, you know he

515
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,559
deserved to win. Was he getting coached? Yeah? But like

516
00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:45,200
I said, I would just like to see that stuff

517
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,400
outside of the actual play of hands. And I think

518
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,599
that was the issue for a lot of people, especially

519
00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:53,200
the recreational players that have reached out to me, you know,

520
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,359
through text, through social media and all. They just didn't

521
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,880
like the look of it. And you know, that's one

522
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,960
of the things that's important to the game of poke

523
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,920
or is that we make things look optically good so

524
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,200
that nobody feels like they're at such a disadvantage that

525
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,759
they don't want to enter these big events.

526
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: Changing topics to something that's kind of also works with

527
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,119
the optics of the game, or even the playing of

528
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,920
the game. Clocks, play clock, shot, clocks, whatever you want

529
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,119
to call them. It does seem like we're moving in

530
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,480
the right direction. You know, a lot of some bigger

531
00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:27,160
stuff does now institute clocks? Are we as far as

532
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,240
we can go? Should we go further? Meaning like should

533
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,920
they be implemented more more places? You know, it's easy

534
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,279
to do them in the Poka Goro studio or at

535
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:37,799
a Triton stop, or in some of the WPT events

536
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:40,559
when the field's condensed to be a little bit smaller

537
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,680
and it's more manageable. You know, are we going to

538
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,079
ever see it in like a WPT World Championship or

539
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,359
a WSP main event, when there's thousands and thousands of

540
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,240
players in a field, Like, at what point should we

541
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,200
institute clocks? How important are they in the longevity of

542
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,079
the game going forward.

543
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,839
Speaker 2: I think they're very important. I think that you know,

544
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,559
you have certain players have been, you know, using these

545
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,519
types of not having clocks as an advantage to you know,

546
00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:11,880
whatever situations on the bubble, it generally happens. But I

547
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,039
think that, you know, we are moving in that direction.

548
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:17,119
Our lead sponsor for the TDA Summit was Poker at Lists.

549
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,400
They have a clock actually that goes right on the

550
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,359
table on the keypad. I know that now Venetian has

551
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,839
Poker Atlas and the Wind has Poker Outles. I think

552
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:27,440
you're going to start seeing more clocks and more tournaments

553
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,920
from the beginning. You know, we've also discussed this for

554
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,359
WPT events. We now use them in all of our products,

555
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:38,519
and we've reduced the amount of time pre to fifteen seconds.

556
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,240
And originally it was a big whoa, what are you

557
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,000
guys doing? You're doing this wrong. It should be fifteen seconds.

558
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,200
But after people play with it for a little while,

559
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,759
they say, you know what, this actually works. And one

560
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:50,759
of the things that people talk about is if you

561
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:53,240
have fifteen seconds, should you be able to use that

562
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:56,240
full fifteen seconds all the time? When it was thirty seconds?

563
00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:59,400
I said absolutely not fifteen seconds. I think that when

564
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,200
those keysits suations come up, or when you're laddering and

565
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,640
you use your full fifteen seconds, I have no problem

566
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,359
with it. Giving a lesser amount of time extension chips,

567
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,200
I think is also important. You don't want people being

568
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,759
you know, collecting them and then using them all at

569
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:19,119
one time, where it might be a situation where that

570
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,119
shouldn't be good. But I am one that also feels

571
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,880
like that's okay. If you're going to give those time insensitiorships,

572
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,440
it should be allowed. But to come back to your

573
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,000
first point, I think we're going to see more of that,

574
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:31,000
and I think it's a better thing for the game.

575
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,640
You know, you know a lot of amateur and recreational

576
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,519
players don't like the amount of time that it takes.

577
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:39,759
And to be honest, when we gave out those time

578
00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:43,000
extensionships early on on the World Over Tour, most of

579
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:45,640
those recreational players said, I'll never use these. I never

580
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,640
take too long. And you know, it's the more professionals

581
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,480
and the people that are more focused on you know,

582
00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:54,240
those ladders, the ICM jumps and all those things that

583
00:26:54,319 --> 00:26:57,680
are using them to their advantage. And you know, I

584
00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:00,279
while I would like to see the clocks you used to,

585
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,240
you know, maybe enhance some of the play on the

586
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,480
on the tournaments, I don't think they should be used

587
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:08,599
as you know, a detractor to try and make things

588
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:11,799
super slow and unenjoyable for everybody that's playing game.

589
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like them. You know, it does

590
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,559
take a little bit of getting used to, but I

591
00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:21,160
think everyone can get used to it pretty easily, you know,

592
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,519
just like everyone got used to the big blind anti

593
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,319
for example. You know, like, yeah, that wasn't the norm,

594
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,240
but eventually everyone got used to it and that's just

595
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:32,160
the norm now. I think clocks will at least hopefully

596
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:35,039
get to be the norm in everything and people will

597
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,079
just understand that that's how they work, and it's it's

598
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,160
always been funny to me. A lot of these guys,

599
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,240
the players, you know, the high rollers and whatnot, who

600
00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:47,079
want to use as many time extensions as possible, their

601
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,880
max time, all that sort of stuff, are used to

602
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,319
playing online eight, ten, twelve tables, you know, snap decisions,

603
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,680
and it's like, guys, this is one live tournament, Like

604
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,680
can we just can we act? Like come on? You know,

605
00:27:58,839 --> 00:28:00,599
I think you can figure this out. You've probably seen

606
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,480
it before hundreds of times, so let's just move things along.

607
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: We've adjusted it on the WPT to now they're accumulating,

608
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,799
so it kind of restricts some of those situations where

609
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:11,599
you're in the bubble. If you use all of your

610
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,640
time sensions on the bubble, you're not going to have

611
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,519
them if you make it to the final table. So

612
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,039
we've done that, and you know, one great example I

613
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,039
like to use is the fact that Calvin Anderson, who

614
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:23,279
won our Prime Championship last year, there were ten thousand entries,

615
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:26,240
use zero, right, so you don't need to use those

616
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:28,200
to win a tournament. And I think even at the

617
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,599
final table he was rushing decisions because he didn't want

618
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,039
to use them. He wanted to have them all at

619
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,160
the end, and the fact that he had all twenty

620
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,799
when he got to the end, I thought it was

621
00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:40,440
quite an accomplishment but also a fun example of you don't

622
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,759
need to use those things and use too much time

623
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:43,519
to win a tournament.

624
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,279
Speaker 1: Another big topic seems to always become very pertinent every summer,

625
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,000
you know, just there's more poker being played, there's a

626
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,599
lot more poker being streamed, specifically face coverings. I mean,

627
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,799
what is this? Is this the cats out of the

628
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:02,200
bed with the whole COVID stuff? I get it? Is

629
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,200
it ever going to go into the bag? What can

630
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,240
we do to possibly put some of it back in

631
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,359
the bag? Like, how does that all shake out from

632
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,359
a TDA perspective?

633
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I think that masks, you know,

634
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:13,880
people wearing masks are here to stay. But I do

635
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,799
believe that if somebody's wearing a mask, they probably should

636
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:20,160
be wearing medical grade one, you know. But the fact

637
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880
that people are wearing them and taking them off their

638
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,240
face and then putting them on when they're in a hand,

639
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,599
I do not agree that that is kosher. I don't

640
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:30,880
think it's cool. I don't think people should be doing that.

641
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:33,160
But one of the topics that we brought up is

642
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,200
something that they do in Jacksonville. Best bet they actually

643
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,359
have a sign that says you can wear a mask, Sure,

644
00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:42,640
you can wear sunglasses. Okay, you cannot wear a mask,

645
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,480
sunglasses and a hoodie. You can't wear three things, so

646
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:47,880
you wear two of three. So that discussion came up.

647
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,720
We couldn't come to an agreement on that, but I

648
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,920
think we'll probably be bringing that up again. So you know,

649
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:57,079
for me, the sunglasses and the technology that's coming along

650
00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:00,000
with the sunglasses or something we're gonna be talking about again.

651
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:03,559
People wearing headphones at the table. Is that something that

652
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:05,799
we may have to remove and if we have to

653
00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:08,880
remove headphones at some point, or we're going to have

654
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,319
to remove hoodies as well, so people can't obscure their

655
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,279
ears and see what's in their ears. So it's it's

656
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:17,720
something that I think again will be a discussion in

657
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:20,079
two years. Where are we at with that right now?

658
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,880
I don't think that ninety nine point nine percent of

659
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,240
anybody has anything the ferries when they're wearing headphones or

660
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:29,400
using phones at the table, or using sunglasses at the table,

661
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,359
or any of those things. But I do think there

662
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,880
needs to become a point where we have to stop it.

663
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,359
It's annoying to a lot of people like me when

664
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:40,640
you're playing in somebody that's wearing sunglasses, hoodies, a mask,

665
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,240
a gate or Kevin coming up a scarf, all of

666
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,279
those things and there's nothing you could see on them,

667
00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:49,759
on their face, on their eyes that you know makes it.

668
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,200
You know, part of the game is getting tells from people.

669
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,079
So people totally trying to obscure themselves I don't think

670
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,359
should be allowed. There are people that are on the

671
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,240
fencing it about that and feel like anything should go

672
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:03,559
and anything should be allowed, but I think that number

673
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:06,279
is somewhere around twenty percent or less. So the fact

674
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:09,319
that that's there, like I said, I think if they

675
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:11,920
have rules in place, like again, I'll use a WIN

676
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,680
as example, where you cannot have your face obscured at

677
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,559
the table. Completely obscured at the table is something that

678
00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:21,880
we're going to be leaning towards doing on the WPT

679
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,799
anytime that I can have something to say over that,

680
00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:26,759
and you know it, you know, when somebody's doing something

681
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,880
that doesn't look right or or has this kind of

682
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:34,480
covering that shouldn't be allowed. So I'm happy to support

683
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:36,319
all of those things, and I think that we will

684
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:37,720
do more and more of that in the future.

685
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: What's one rule, just in general, can be anything that

686
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,000
you would like to see implemented as soon as possible.

687
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,079
Speaker 2: That's a good one. Ah, that's a good one. I

688
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,400
really would like to see. I mean it goes back

689
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,519
to the games speeding up. I would like to see

690
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,119
those clocks and institute at the very beginning of tournaments.

691
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:57,960
I think that's something that we can do. And I

692
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,880
think that you have done in a lot of your

693
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,079
and Sarah at Poker Goo that.

694
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: Was easy into fifteen tables.

695
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I did have my list of

696
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,640
pet peeves and people throwing the racks on the floor

697
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,079
I think will be another one.

698
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: Listen, I put my racks where they're supposed to go.

699
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,079
Every single time. Every time I move a table, I

700
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:19,160
will find where the racks are. I will walk over

701
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400
there put them down, or I will if I don't

702
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,119
have time because I have a hand immediately, I'll just

703
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,759
put it right behind me on the back of my

704
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:27,000
chair and then I'll fold my hand or whatever I'll

705
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,079
go up. I'll walk over and do that because I've

706
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,599
been on the floor plenty in my reporting days and

707
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,240
I've stepped on those racks and it sucks. It absolutely sucks.

708
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:38,599
You are asking to break an ankle. I'm telling you

709
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:39,480
it is not fun.

710
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:43,119
Speaker 2: Okay, people think I'm joking about that, but it's true.

711
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,440
And you know, we created a video about it. But

712
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:48,960
I'm telling you. I was just at a tournament a

713
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,559
few weeks ago and player literally took his two racks

714
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:55,079
and threw them in the middle of the aisle, exactly

715
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,240
the place where the waitress is going to be walking

716
00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,720
by in like thirty seconds. And I literally walked up

717
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:02,599
to the and said, what in the hell are you doing?

718
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,039
And the guy literally like what do you mean.

719
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can just hand them, you can just

720
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,119
say here, can you take this? And the deal will

721
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,440
be like yeah, sure and put it in the rack

722
00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:14,160
or something like that's the worst case.

723
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. That goes back to training in a lot of ways.

724
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:20,759
And I think it's improved. I think this is something

725
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:23,079
that's improved, and I think that I've had something to

726
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:24,640
do with that. And I still get a lot of

727
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,720
people trolling me all the time, sending me videos of

728
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:29,880
racks on the floor and all that stuff, and it's

729
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,599
fun for them and they but I think in the

730
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,480
end people are going to learn that it's something that

731
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:37,200
it's something for you know, the staff, the people, the

732
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,720
media that's on the floor, the cocktail waitresses are there serving,

733
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,039
you know. It's just you know, a behavior you would

734
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:46,319
want to see, and people throwing him under the middle

735
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:48,640
of the table. Somebody has to go down there and

736
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,559
get that rack for more your stinky, nasty feet. We're

737
00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:55,000
all single all day and it's just not right. So

738
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:58,240
I think that's a you know, kind of a funny one,

739
00:33:58,279 --> 00:33:59,920
but at the same time it's important.

740
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: What's the most common ruling that you see carried out incorrectly.

741
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: The moving of players to a table when they're a

742
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,840
new player. People don't understand who gets a hand, who

743
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,920
doesn't get a hand, when somebody has to take the

744
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,280
big blind, and when somebody can come in in the middle,

745
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:19,679
or when can somebody take the button. This one still

746
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,800
comes up all the time, and I like to say,

747
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,360
there's three different ways to understand this. If you are

748
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,920
a new player, or you are a player that's coming

749
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:35,360
from a balanced table, Okay, you can take the button,

750
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,159
the small blind or the big blind. If you are

751
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,199
somebody that's getting moved to balance a table, meaning you're

752
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,920
on a nine handed table moving to a six handed table,

753
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:49,199
you must always take the single big blind if it's available.

754
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,079
If not, you need to take the worst position. And

755
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:56,000
the worst position is never the small blind. So that's

756
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:59,360
the most common one that I get all the time.

757
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,440
The other one is the single chip. Is it a

758
00:35:03,519 --> 00:35:07,679
raise or is it not a raise? Blinds are three

759
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,559
or six and twelve hundred and the first player throws

760
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:13,480
out two one K chips. Many people feels like that

761
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:16,039
should be a raise, but it's a simple ruling and

762
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:18,880
that you remove the one of the chips from the pot.

763
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,280
It's not enough to cover the bet and therefore it

764
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,199
is not a raise. And so that's the example of

765
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,239
that I like to use all the time. You know,

766
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,679
those chip rules and things come up all the time,

767
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,440
But I think the biggest one is when can you

768
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,119
take a hand and when can you not take it?

769
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,519
Speaker 1: How is it being addressed for dealer errors? You know,

770
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,079
oftentimes you'll see I think the one that always sticks

771
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:43,280
out to me the most is a couple of years

772
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,360
ago when the WSP was still at the Rio Dario

773
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,239
Sammartino deep in the WSP Main Events. The dealer said

774
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,199
it was I think eleven million or fifteen million or something.

775
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,559
It was actually eighteen million. He had to call anyway,

776
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:56,199
because he said verbally call, you know. He didn't just

777
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:57,079
like put chips out.

778
00:35:57,159 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: You know.

779
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,559
Speaker 1: The dealer had told him one thing, so he was

780
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:02,039
under the asumption. You know, So how is how is

781
00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:04,440
that stuff being handled or what sort of fail safes

782
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,800
are you know, being explored to combat that sort of thing,

783
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,960
Because I mean, listen, mistakes are going to happen. There's

784
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,519
going to happen.

785
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for happening all the time. And I think that

786
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,760
this one that's a common one and I really want

787
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,199
and on the TDA we have a rule or a

788
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,440
suggested procedure that the dealers announce that's and raises and

789
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,760
the amounts. And not every tournament series does that. Not

790
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,119
everybody does that, but I would really like to see

791
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:31,360
that happen. So when that does happen, depending on the

792
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,639
skill level of the dealer, these mistakes are going to

793
00:36:33,679 --> 00:36:36,239
happen more and more. So that is a common one.

794
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,800
And the ruling is always or generally, if you make

795
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,320
a verbal statement of call. You have to call whatever

796
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,880
the amount is. But we do have certain situations and

797
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,880
we always go back to TDA number rule rule number one,

798
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,039
which is, you know, in the fairness and what is

799
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:56,840
best for the game, we can make decisions that may

800
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,519
not affect that mean, maybe the player had his handful.

801
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,320
Let's used Daniel's example for where he, you know, limped

802
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:09,000
for five thousand, and Arthur raised to thirteen thousand and two,

803
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:12,840
Plaeople folded, and then Arthur folded his hand in that

804
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,719
spot right there. The dealer is supposed to stop and say, hey,

805
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:19,159
Daniel still has a hand. You need to protect these

806
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:23,519
cards from that player that's obviously folding in a spot

807
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:26,239
where he shouldn't. So now what did Daniel say. He said,

808
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,440
you know that we you know that's a terrible rule.

809
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,280
It was a terrible ruling by that floormant, who was,

810
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,119
by the way, one of the best four people in

811
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:37,840
the industry. Jordan Cutter shout out. So that's partially a

812
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,639
dealer air, it's partially a player air. But in the

813
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,360
end we give that player back the eight thousand that

814
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,480
he raised, and then Daniel wins the anties, the blinds

815
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,039
and the five thousand from Arthur. So is Daniel getting

816
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:55,079
penalized in that spot? He says absolutely, I'm getting penalized.

817
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,760
And he said we shouldn't, you know, protect people, even

818
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,239
if it's I think he says Aunt Betty back in Iowa,

819
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,079
and I say, you should protect those people. And there

820
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:08,159
are certain things where a dealer might scoop up a

821
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:11,840
hand of a player that's moved all in. It's happened multiple,

822
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,639
multiple times, and again dealer errors are going to happen.

823
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:18,719
We don't want to, you know, really remount the dealer

824
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,400
and think that it's something that is never going to

825
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,639
be happen in the game. So we want to do

826
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:28,400
what's best for all players and try and protect the

827
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,440
players from dealer mistakes as best we can. And I

828
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,519
think we do that a lot on the TDA, and

829
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:34,360
I think it's important.

830
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,679
Speaker 1: This brings up a question I've kind of always had

831
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,760
because you mentioned the archer march Rose and Dane on

832
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,440
the Grand New hamm or Arthur you know, flings his hand,

833
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,760
it hits the muck or whatever. Why is the muck

834
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,760
still there and able to be hit? Because if you

835
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,800
were to like protect it some sort of way or

836
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,360
like put it in a case I don't know exactly,

837
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,519
but like, if you could never hit the muck, then

838
00:38:54,559 --> 00:38:56,800
you could always give a hand back, right, So like,

839
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,119
why isn't that something that's happened.

840
00:38:59,039 --> 00:39:02,039
Speaker 2: And this has happened in the World Series two, just

841
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:04,280
say that, you know, people are winging their cards in

842
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,280
the muck on the river when they're all in, heads up,

843
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,719
when they're supposed to be showing those cards. There's a

844
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,000
video I think from pilker dot org where they actually

845
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,400
showed helmet on the river all in and he MUCKs

846
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,039
his cards. You shouldn't be allowed to do that. The

847
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:20,960
dealers should be able to protect that. But again, in

848
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,960
that situation, I'm not going to hold that against a

849
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,000
dealer because he's winging it into the muck. I would

850
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,880
really like to see a better enforcement of that for dealers.

851
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,440
And yeah, I don't hate your idea. There are dealers,

852
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,679
and you really don't want a dealer to have his

853
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,639
hand on top of the muck because that could lead

854
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:41,239
to some nefarious things over time. But yes, protecting the

855
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,719
muck as best as possible maybe a case I like it.

856
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,079
I like that.

857
00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking, like, why is sometimes

858
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,079
you have the dealers like the muck is basically like

859
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:49,639
out there right next to the flop. It's like so

860
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,559
easy to hit, you know, like you can try sometimes

861
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:53,039
I fold and I try and hit the muck, just

862
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,320
you know, to have fun or whatever. Like in a way,

863
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,000
I'm kind of like I should never if we want

864
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,280
hands to be retrievable, you know, like in this situation

865
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,840
where it happened with Daniel and Archer, it would have

866
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,480
been easy to just been like, hey, Archer, here's your handback. Okay,

867
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,480
he still has cards over here, so let's continue the

868
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:09,360
action and then go from there.

869
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's the you know, the thing is

870
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,719
that a lot of times when you're in seed number one,

871
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,199
you're at a disadvantage and people don't ever really think

872
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,239
about it where your cards are so close to that

873
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,199
mott it should be protected better. And I agree, it's

874
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:25,199
one of those things that you know, the dealers really

875
00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:27,719
need to be trained and be running the game. And

876
00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:30,320
you know, it's not always easy, especially in the summer

877
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:34,159
when there are you know, thousands of dealers in Las Vegas.

878
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:37,719
It's tough, tough, tough, tough to get the top dealers

879
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,079
to deal these events. And you know, training, training, training, man,

880
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:44,679
It's it's something that's it's got to be better. Enforcement

881
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,960
of these rules also has to be better in all situations.

882
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: My favorite seat are one and nine. Just so you're wondering,

883
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,960
So I I like the fact that you get you.

884
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:56,000
I feel like you get a little bit more space

885
00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:57,360
if you're in the one on your right side or

886
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,800
if you're in the nine on your left side, because

887
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,719
the dealers a little bit further. Sometimes players like just

888
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,800
get right next to you. Sometimes you got to play

889
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,679
ten handed, so I like just that little extra couple

890
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:09,400
of inches. I'm used to it now where I'm very

891
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,559
careful with my cards. I protect them right away, all

892
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:15,480
that sort of stuff. So yeah, I like those seats.

893
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:17,280
You know, I don't have any sort of issue because

894
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,880
I've I've been used to sitting there so many times

895
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,639
that I know how to look at the other players.

896
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:23,920
Some players, Oh, I can't see the guy in the

897
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,679
nine seer. Orever, we'll just lean forward a little bit,

898
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,079
like it's not that hard.

899
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: I like those that But once that dealer snatches your

900
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,920
cards from the one seed one day, I.

901
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: Mean, it's happened. It happened this summer, not that I

902
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,039
was in the one seed. I think I was in

903
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:39,239
like the six seat, and the dealer snatched my cards.

904
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,960
And I'm a big proponent that you know when that happened.

905
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,119
I think I was the small blind too, and the

906
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:47,000
dealer like it must have hit the small blind chip

907
00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:49,719
and then the dealer just grabbed the cards and there

908
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,519
had been some folds and maybe a raise, so there

909
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:54,519
was a bunch of action, and the dealer was like

910
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,960
overly apologetic. I was like, listen, it's fine, it's one hand.

911
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,039
It's not that big of a deal. I have no

912
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:01,039
idea what the hand was, so just I was like,

913
00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:02,840
just count the cards to make sure that you didn't

914
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,639
like just miss me completely, and if you have enough cards,

915
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,119
then yes, just carry out with the hants. Not that

916
00:42:08,159 --> 00:42:12,159
big of a deal. But yeah, like I'm I believe

917
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,280
that you should have some sympathy because these dealers are

918
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,599
working long hours, dealing hundreds and hundreds of hands. Mistakes

919
00:42:18,599 --> 00:42:20,360
are going to happen, just like when you're a player.

920
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:23,280
I'm sure you've made a mistake, misclicking and betting the

921
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,760
wrong amount, acting out of turn, whatever it may be,

922
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:28,840
and the dealer doesn't blast you for it. No, that's

923
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,880
not how it is. So like, just be you know,

924
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,760
a little bit sympathetic with things. If it happens over

925
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,960
and over again, I get it, you know at that point.

926
00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:38,119
But also like at that point, I would I would

927
00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:41,440
advise players to just get up, find a foreman, say like, hey, listen,

928
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,119
you know this dealer is you know, having issues with this,

929
00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:45,639
this and this. We had a dealer who like literally

930
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:48,000
couldn't count the pot this summer, like in any hand.

931
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,800
And eventually we were just like, listen, every hand takes

932
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,840
seven minutes. It's just it's not fair to us. So

933
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,039
can you just you know, get someone else in here?

934
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,639
And the TV was like, yes, that's fine, great, I'll

935
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:01,760
find some one, got someone in, switched it out. There

936
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,480
was no like exchange of words because everyone understood the situation.

937
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,920
And that's how I think things should be going about,

938
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,719
as opposed to this yelling at the dealer because that's

939
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,280
not going to solve anything at all.

940
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,679
Speaker 2: They were all like you, Donnie. I wish they were

941
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:14,760
all like you. I'm just saying, you know, that's kind

942
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,679
of how literally I built my career. Early on, when

943
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:19,760
I was started running these big tournaments at the World

944
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,199
Series I basically made an announcement at the start of

945
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,440
the World Series Dealer a beast is going to stop,

946
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:26,920
and it's going to stop now. And we you know,

947
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,199
there at the Commerce when I was there up in

948
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,280
northern California, we just didn't let the dealer abuse happen

949
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,719
and people got removed and people got eliminated from tournaments

950
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,519
in the past for doing things like that. Throwing cards

951
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:41,599
to the dealer, which you don't see anymore, used to

952
00:43:41,639 --> 00:43:43,440
be a thing and used to be a common thing,

953
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,159
and I'm glad that that's out of the game entirely. Good.

954
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, another question here, were ever going to see the

955
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,719
Big Blind ante or at least a variation of it

956
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,760
in mixed games like in the STUD games for example,

957
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:57,719
Why is everyone ante?

958
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,519
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of people asking about it, and

959
00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:03,039
you know, we go back four years on the TDA

960
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:04,880
Summit when we change a lot of the STUD rules.

961
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,400
I know you play a lot of those games, and

962
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:11,599
people were very, very resistance to changing some of the

963
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,800
age old rules, like in Stud the double bet on

964
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,039
four Street. I still get people from the old school

965
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,920
that like it and they used it to their advantage.

966
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,920
They use it as a way to say I understand

967
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,920
this game and you don't. You're a new player to

968
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,960
this game. Got more questions from dealers, from new players,

969
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,119
from everybody, why is he allowed to double bet on

970
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,679
four Street? And those are the things that are so

971
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:41,039
ingrained in the mixed game lore that it's very tough

972
00:44:41,039 --> 00:44:44,079
to change. Should there be big blind anti in mixed games?

973
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:45,880
I think so, I think it would work just fine,

974
00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:49,000
but so many people are resistant to that and think

975
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:51,320
that it's just such an integral part of the game,

976
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,519
putting up your auntie every time, And it would make

977
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,679
it so much easier for the dealers as well, if

978
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:57,320
that was one thing, and you would never have to

979
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,639
ask who didn't Danty, You'd never have to go to

980
00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:01,440
the campra. One of the things we found out of

981
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,639
it big blind Anti. It made it so much better.

982
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:06,039
So yeah, it's something that could change at some point,

983
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:06,960
but just not yet.

984
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 1: I mean to the mixed game community that there was

985
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,000
a lot of resistance for big blind Anty in Big

986
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:15,199
bet right, and eventually people just were like, yeah, this

987
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,599
is way better, Like people came around, is basically what

988
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:19,719
I'm getting at. But like, sometimes if I do happen

989
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,000
to go play a mixed game, and I play a

990
00:45:21,039 --> 00:45:23,280
stud game, you always get it like once a rotation,

991
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:25,840
somebody didn't anty who didn't anty? Well, like can we

992
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,880
stop this, guys, like come on exactly?

993
00:45:29,199 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean the other one is people will say,

994
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,400
but mixed games are so much better for short stacking

995
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,400
and coming back from a short stack, and if you

996
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,559
do that, you just ruin the game for everybody. But

997
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:43,239
it happens, It can happen, and I've seen it. I

998
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,880
think it would work. I'll try again. I'll try again

999
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:47,559
the next summit.

1000
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,519
Speaker 1: All right, So what can people expect from the TDA

1001
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:56,159
going forward. I'm guessing the next TDA summit will be

1002
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:59,840
twenty twenty six, correct, Yeah, but I have.

1003
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: Met We'll have one in between here and there somewhere

1004
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,199
else in the world. And again, like I'm really excited

1005
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:07,639
about doing that. But yeah, but I think our rules

1006
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:09,440
are just about done and coming out we had some

1007
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:12,960
red lines and very few actual changes, but a lot

1008
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,960
of stressing, onenforcement and all those things. So I think

1009
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,880
we'll have some of that. And I think that what

1010
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,440
I really want to happen is I want to get

1011
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,360
our website fixed. I want to get our training certification upgraded,

1012
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,880
and I would love to have a level two of certification.

1013
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,239
And so many people around the world take that certification

1014
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,159
test and it's only ten dollars, but what it does

1015
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,960
is it shows the people that you work for and

1016
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,559
the people that you're working for that you are taking

1017
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,119
your learning of the rules seriously and that is an

1018
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:45,039
important part of your job and what you're doing. So

1019
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:47,480
I would love to see some improvement on that. And

1020
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,159
definitely just anybody out there that has any questions or

1021
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:55,159
wants to be a part of the TDA, please reach

1022
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:58,199
out to me. I'm pretty accessible on all things social

1023
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:01,760
and would be happy to plug you in with somebody

1024
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:05,119
in your area of the world to make that happen.

1025
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. At Savage Poker on Twitter slash x. I know, Matt,

1026
00:47:09,199 --> 00:47:12,039
you're always fielding a whole bunch of stuff questions is

1027
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,000
this right? Is that right? What would you have ruled?

1028
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,800
What would you have not have ruled? I hit you

1029
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,440
with some of those via text, you know, quite often

1030
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,199
on some stuff. So I think you're doing God's work

1031
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:24,800
out there for responding to all that sort of stuff

1032
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:25,599
because you don't need to.

1033
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,039
Speaker 2: So happy to do it. I just again, I want

1034
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:30,480
the game to grow, and I think that's something that

1035
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:32,920
I've always focused on in growing the game globally, and

1036
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,039
I think that having a standard set of rules is

1037
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:38,280
super important for doing that. And I do appreciate all

1038
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,920
your support there from poker Real great.

1039
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: When are we going to get a WPT schedule for December?

1040
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,400
Come on, man, it's.

1041
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,119
Speaker 2: Kind of I'm telling you, I've getten what I had

1042
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:52,960
like six questions about that today. The schedule's coming out soon.

1043
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:56,960
Ryan Beauregard and the WPT team are working furiously on

1044
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,320
what's going to come up, and it's going to be great.

1045
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,039
No matter what, it's gonna be great. I expect to

1046
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:03,719
have more events this year than we've had in your past,

1047
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,440
and I hope and I am really working on Ryan

1048
00:48:07,559 --> 00:48:09,719
very hard and Ray over at the win to have

1049
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:10,519
more mixing fames.

1050
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: Very cool, very cool. Well, we'll stay tuned for that.

1051
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:17,079
Thank you very much for joining me here and for

1052
00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:19,599
everyone who wants to check out the t DA at

1053
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,960
Poker TDA on Twitter, slash xx, or just pokertda dot

1054
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,760
com on the web. Matt Savage appreciate you joining as always.

1055
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,519
Speaker 2: And very much very happy Tim's not here. Happy you

1056
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:31,360
all right?

1057
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,039
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully i'll talk to you soon, and hopefully i'll

1058
00:48:34,039 --> 00:48:34,519
see you soon.

1059
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good, Don, Thank you, Jenny,