Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
Speaker 1: us as we dive into the deep end of the
Speaker 1: unexplainable world and try.
Speaker 2: To piece together what happened.
Speaker 1: If you are listening to Locations Unknown, ooh, what's up everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown.
Speaker 2: I'm your co host, Joe.
Speaker 1: You rott On with me as always is the type
Speaker 1: of guy that refers to the hard coding of an
Speaker 1: eminem as the skin Mike fanned Bogart. Thank you, Jill.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that before. That is That's a good one.
Speaker 1: It's so gross, it is gross this skin.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 1: I love the skin on my m and MS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think just grosses me out here in that. But
Speaker 1: that's a good one.
Speaker 2: I read that and I was like, ooh, that's well.
Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone who's tuned in for another episode
Speaker 1: before we get going here, and just a couple quick announcements. First,
Speaker 1: new Patreon shoutouts only got one this week, so thank
Speaker 1: you to Gwen Picclow for supporting the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks Gwen, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: It's for slowly getting better equipment and someday we'll have
Speaker 1: a whole team of little minions for us that'll do
Speaker 1: our bidding. And yeah, absolutely, but right now it's just
Speaker 1: me and Joe. You want to call the show, you
Speaker 1: can call two eight three nine one six nine one three,
Speaker 1: leave a voicemail or text. I think some one recently
Speaker 1: texted it and said, do you get texts?
Speaker 2: I forgot to.
Speaker 1: So you forgot and I forgot so I will text
Speaker 1: you back. Whoever that was, that's awesome.
Speaker 3: We have some other podcasts on our up and coming
Speaker 3: podcast network Off the Trails. Who runs this park crime
Speaker 3: off the Grid Relish And I said this last time
Speaker 3: if anyone's listening also a curator in the podcast space
Speaker 3: and you're looking for up and coming network to join,
Speaker 3: We've were on a very good plan with a spreaker,
Speaker 3: so you get you can get hosting for free, and
Speaker 3: you get access to their ad network and the.
Speaker 1: Whole deal, the whole We had someone we can't say
Speaker 1: their name yet, we haven't inked it, but we've got
Speaker 1: another person coming on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, We've got more that are in the works for joining,
Speaker 3: so stay tuned for that. You can also sport the
Speaker 3: podcast through Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions, on Apple and Spreaker.
Speaker 3: We have a store where we have some hats and
Speaker 3: shirts and other little things you can buy. And if
Speaker 3: money's tight, because I was just at the gas station
Speaker 3: the other day and gas from my car was five
Speaker 3: point fifty nine a gallon, and you don't have the
Speaker 3: money to support us monetarily, always just leave a like
Speaker 3: a comment. Subscribe wherever you listen, or even if you
Speaker 3: listen on Apple and don't on Spotify but have Spotify,
Speaker 3: subscribe on there too.
Speaker 2: You know it helps the algorithms. Just do it.
Speaker 3: Promote our show. So and the best form of help
Speaker 3: is word of mouth to your friends. Just talk about
Speaker 3: our show until they disown you. Then they won't want
Speaker 3: to listen to Then they won't. Yeah, so anything in
Speaker 3: you are not?
Speaker 2: You look tan. And for those watching, what looks different
Speaker 2: about show? My mustache? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was just down on the keys spearfishing for hog Fast.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. I didn't win this year. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: boss hog two years in a row. This would have
Speaker 1: been the third I lost to Kyle. He deserved it,
Speaker 1: he got He beat me by an inch and a quarter.
Speaker 1: Was that mustache of punishment for losing? No, it's probably
Speaker 1: why I got second though, you know, as.
Speaker 2: A a dynamic. Yeah, it was I was too slow
Speaker 2: in the waters catching.
Speaker 3: Yes, well that sounds fun. You look for Italian, you
Speaker 3: looke tan.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just out on the water for eight hours
Speaker 1: a day and the Gulf sounds nice.
Speaker 2: It was awesome.
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to
Speaker 1: explore locations unknown.
Speaker 2: We'll edit that out, Nope.
Speaker 1: March seventeenth, twenty twelve, a twenty four year old leaves
Speaker 1: a hotel in Cherokee, North Carolina, before dawn and drives
Speaker 1: into Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Hours later, his fourd
Speaker 1: escape is found with his wallet, keys, cash, and survival
Speaker 1: gear still inside. A short note says, don't follow me.
Speaker 1: Search teams, helicopters, canine units, and volunteers scour the Appalachian
Speaker 1: Trail Corridor, steep drainages and dense off trail terrain but
Speaker 1: find nothing.
Speaker 2: No clothing, no gear, no trace. Join us this.
Speaker 1: Week as we investigate the baffling disappearance of Derek Joseph Luking.
Speaker 2: Going on. I know, we'll do a lie. We haven't
Speaker 2: covered Great Smoky Mountains over a year.
Speaker 1: In a hot minute, yeah, we usually do. Seems like
Speaker 1: one or two cases of ear in this park.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for how old it is, you think there'll
Speaker 2: be more.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well it's such a mysterious place and I
Speaker 1: love the stories out of there. My daughters are a
Speaker 1: huge fan of the Smoky's lore. Okay, there's just tons
Speaker 1: like we're not supposed to whistle there, you know, like
Speaker 1: all the rules, and we we did a Urban Legends
Speaker 1: thing on it episode on some from there. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they love they love that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't believe we just don't have more maybe
Speaker 2: bottom really, Yeah, it is beautiful. Have you been there?
Speaker 1: I have, Yes, I took my family there and we
Speaker 1: did all the things you're not supposed to and we
Speaker 1: were just fine. So the Great Smoking Mountain National Park
Speaker 1: is five hundred and twenty two thousand acres. Some of
Speaker 1: the locations we're going to be talking about in this
Speaker 1: story are the Newfound Gap High Mountain Pass, which is
Speaker 1: at about five thy forty six feet and it's on
Speaker 1: US four forty one at the Tennessee North Carolina state line,
Speaker 1: and a major overlook and parking area. The park seas
Speaker 1: roughly twelve million visitors per year twelve point one or
Speaker 1: twelve point two almost million visitors per year SI Park.
Speaker 1: It's a very busy park. It's also the most biodiverse
Speaker 1: park in the entire National Park system. So scientists have
Speaker 1: documented more than twenty two thousand species in the Smokies
Speaker 1: and estimate as many as sixty thousand to eighty thousand
Speaker 1: may live there.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That is a ton of species living there. Bugs.
Speaker 2: I've met a lot of.
Speaker 1: It's known as the salamander capital of the world, so
Speaker 1: some of them at least are salamanders.
Speaker 2: About thirty of them yep.
Speaker 1: The thirty different species of salamanders across five families, including
Speaker 1: endemics like Jordan's red cheeked salamander. On any given day,
Speaker 1: salamanders likely outnumber all other vertebrae in the park.
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: The quote unquote smoke is actually plant vapor that turns
Speaker 1: the air blue. Trees and plants emit volatile organic compounds
Speaker 1: that create a blue tinged haze when they scatter light.
Speaker 1: It's informally called Wildflower National Park. So the Smokies has
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred species of flowering plants, one of the highest
Speaker 1: counts of any temperate region on Earth, which is why
Speaker 1: spring wildflower pilgrimages.
Speaker 2: Are a big deal here.
Speaker 1: You're also when you're there walking through one of the
Speaker 1: oldest mountain ranges on the planet. Geologists estimate the Smokies
Speaker 1: are roughly two hundred to three hundred million years old,
Speaker 1: far older than the Rockies based on the rock weathering
Speaker 1: and soil evidence. So that's why it's like not such
Speaker 1: an aggressive.
Speaker 2: Seep and weather down. It was probably just like the
Speaker 2: Rockies and the wind blew it down. Yeah, that's how long.
Speaker 2: How old it is? It's old. Did you know the
Speaker 2: park never closes. I did not.
Speaker 1: So while individual roads, trails, or facilities can shut down
Speaker 1: for weather or maintenance, the park as a whole doesn't
Speaker 1: have a closing time. You can legally enter twenty four
Speaker 1: to seven year round if conditions allow. It quietly preserves
Speaker 1: one of the largest collections of historic structures in any
Speaker 1: national park. So there are more than ninety historic buildings, cabins, churches, barns, schools,
Speaker 1: and mills that have been preserved or rehabilitated, especially in
Speaker 1: Cade's Cove and a long Roaring Fork. The Smokies is
Speaker 1: one of the few major national parks with no entrance fee.
Speaker 1: Thanks to historic agreements over US four forty one Newfound
Speaker 1: Gap Road right of way when the land was transferred
Speaker 1: to the federal government. So that's also why it's open
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3: And probably why twelve million people visited there. You go, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just people drive through there just because it's part of
Speaker 3: the road. They're like, visitor, visitor, visit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we'll talk a little bit about the features. Starting
Speaker 1: with climate. So in mid March, the Smokies are in
Speaker 1: that uneasy transition between winter and spring.
Speaker 2: What do we call that, bookends? Did you call it
Speaker 2: a shoulder season? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Was it shoulder season? Yeah, that's what it's normally called.
Speaker 1: But I forgot what you called it. Oh man, now
Speaker 1: I can't remember. Yeah, or you didn't hear about it ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that was it too. You're like, I'd never
Speaker 1: heard it called that shoulder season. Yeah, but I called
Speaker 1: it something different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: Call us and tell us. So down in the valleys
Speaker 1: around Cherokee and Gatlinburg, a day can feel almost comfortable,
Speaker 1: with the afternoon temperatures often climbing into the sixties and
Speaker 1: even low seventies, especially by late March. Nights there usually
Speaker 1: fall into the forties or fifties, cool but manageable if
Speaker 1: you're prepared. Up on the ridgeline, where the Newfound Gap sits,
Speaker 1: it's a different world. The passes around five thousand feet
Speaker 1: and temperatures drop several degrees for every thousand feet of elevation.
Speaker 1: A day that feels mild in town can be ten
Speaker 1: to fifteen degrees colder on the crest, with raw wind
Speaker 1: cutting across the parking lots and trailheads. A spring afternoon
Speaker 1: might hover around in the forties or low fifties there,
Speaker 1: and once the sun goes down, it's easy for the
Speaker 1: mercury to sink towards the mid thirties or lower. Spring
Speaker 1: in the Smokies is all so infamous for volatile weather.
Speaker 1: Clear skies can give way to low cloud, fog, and
Speaker 1: rain in a matter of hours. Storms roll up the valleys,
Speaker 1: and the higher elevations often see more precipitation than the
Speaker 1: town's below, even when it's truly freezing. A combination of
Speaker 1: cold air, wind, and damp clothing can drive a hiker
Speaker 1: toward hypothermia surprisingly fast. So that's the backdrop to Derek's
Speaker 1: disappearance at straddle.
Speaker 2: That's what you call its. Sorry for interrupting you.
Speaker 1: No, that's worth the interruption because I forgot it's hilarious seasons.
Speaker 2: I knew I would remember. That's wrong and embarrassing.
Speaker 1: So basically, when Derek was there, a huge, wet, heavily
Speaker 1: forested mountain range where on the same day a visitor
Speaker 1: can be strolling in short sleeves in the Cherokee while
Speaker 1: just a short drive a few thousand feet higher, someone
Speaker 1: without proper shelter is fighting to stay warm through a long, windy,
Speaker 1: wet night. A little bit about the terrain around Newfound Gap.
Speaker 1: Derek stepped into some of the roughest and most deceptive
Speaker 1: terrain in the Smokies. At a broad scale, Newfound Gap
Speaker 1: is a high mountain pass on a main crest of
Speaker 1: the Great Smoky Mountains, Sitting at about five forty six
Speaker 1: to five forty eight feet on the Tennessee North Carolina
Speaker 1: state line. The parking area feels civilized. You have paved lots,
Speaker 1: stone walls, big views, but it's perch on a ridge
Speaker 1: lines surrounded by steep mountain slopes dropping away on both sides.
Speaker 1: Once you step off the asphalt, the terrain changes fast.
Speaker 1: The slopes around the gap are steep to very steep,
Speaker 1: with a mix of rocky outcrops, ledges, and deeply insized
Speaker 1: drainages that funnel water and people downhill in unpredictable ways.
Speaker 1: The forest is also dense. On the climb up from Cherokee,
Speaker 1: you pass through cove hardwoods and mixed oak pine, then
Speaker 1: into northern hardwood and spruce fir forest at the gap itself,
Speaker 1: the kind of dark coniferous woodlands more like New England
Speaker 1: or eastern Canada than the rest of the South underfoot,
Speaker 1: which means thick leaf litter, moss covered rock, and tangled roots,
Speaker 1: with laurel and rhododendron thickets closing in along many of
Speaker 1: the drainages and off trail slopes. Visibility can drop quickly
Speaker 1: once you leave the road or main trails. The corridor
Speaker 1: descriptions for Newfound Gap roads specifically note steeply sloping, sometimes
Speaker 1: rocky outcroppings on one side and forests where the floor
Speaker 1: is only intermittently open on the other. It's very easy
Speaker 1: to lose line of sight or a bearing within a
Speaker 1: short distance off the pavement, so several strenuous trails radiate
Speaker 1: from this hub The Appalachian Trail runs right across this gap,
Speaker 1: heading along a rolling but often narrow ridge with side
Speaker 1: hills that fall away sharply into heavily wooded valleys.
Speaker 2: Nearby.
Speaker 1: Routes like Chimney Tops are known for steep, rocky ascents,
Speaker 1: slick rock slabs, and exposure in places. Even though they're
Speaker 1: popular day hikes. The general character of the country derrek
Speaker 1: walking into big elevation changes, lots of vertical relief and
Speaker 1: short horizontal distances, and very few truly gentle off trail options.
Speaker 1: So in practice, for someone who leaves a parking lot
Speaker 1: without a clear route and goes off trail, this area
Speaker 1: quickly becomes amazed deep draws, blind ridges, and thick vegetation
Speaker 1: that hide you from both other hikers and searchers, with
Speaker 1: enough rock and relief to make a simple misstep or
Speaker 1: a slide turn into a serious fall. That's the train
Speaker 1: search teams we're basically trying to grid when they went
Speaker 1: looking for any signs of him. So how can you
Speaker 1: safely hike this area? As we always say, tell someone
Speaker 1: your exact plan, what trail had, intended routes, turn around time,
Speaker 1: and when you'll check back in make sure they know
Speaker 1: who to call if you miss that window. It's very
Speaker 1: important because searchers need to know where to start if
Speaker 1: you do go missing. Absolutely, and obviously if you give
Speaker 1: people that plan, you want to stick to it. So
Speaker 1: stay on the established and sign trails. Don't just explore
Speaker 1: off the side of Newfound Gap road or cut down drainages.
Speaker 1: It's very easy to get cliffed out, injured, or lost
Speaker 1: in that terrain.
Speaker 3: We've talked about getting cliffed out in other episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately someone passed away. Yeah, and Grand Canyon happened.
Speaker 1: You can get down some of these cliffs, and if
Speaker 1: you don't have climbing gear, you'll just get stuck and
Speaker 1: you won't be able to go any further and you
Speaker 1: can't climb back up. So you want to wear real
Speaker 1: hiking footwear, not sneakers. Use boots or shoes with ankle
Speaker 1: support and good tread. Wet leaves, roots and mossy rock
Speaker 1: around the New Found Gap are major source of slips
Speaker 1: and broken ankles. I would say, out of any gear,
Speaker 1: your footwear is the most important. Absolutely not because I
Speaker 1: mean best case in here if you wear bad footwear
Speaker 1: is you're going to have just a giant blister on
Speaker 1: each foot. Yeah, it's gonna be miserable the rest of
Speaker 1: the troupe. Yeah, and for several days after and have
Speaker 1: them broken in. Don't buy new shoes and go hiking
Speaker 1: for the first time. Wear them for like a month.
Speaker 1: I remember our first hiking trip in Candy Lens Shay.
Speaker 1: Our friend that went with us were his army boots.
Speaker 1: Bad idea. He had full foot blisters. It's just the worst. Yes,
Speaker 1: you want to carry a paper map and knows how
Speaker 1: to use it, so don't rely on your phone services
Speaker 1: spotty and batteries die fast and cold white conditions. Have
Speaker 1: a park map or topo and nowhere new pound gap,
Speaker 1: trail junctions and bailout points are You want to pack
Speaker 1: even the basics for a short hike at minimum extra
Speaker 1: layer rainshell, hat and gloves and Coolermont's headlamp, water, snacks
Speaker 1: and small first aid kit. Check the weather and be
Speaker 1: right for the changes. Storms, fog and temperatures drop hit
Speaker 1: the ridge line much harder than in the valleys. If
Speaker 1: the forecast looks bad or is deteriorating, turn around early
Speaker 1: and you want to avoid hiking after dark unless you're
Speaker 1: truly prepared darkness plus deep side hills and roots is
Speaker 1: a recipe for falls and getting turned around. Plan so
Speaker 1: you're back at the Newfound Gap before dusk. You want
Speaker 1: to treat water and respect high fast streams, so you
Speaker 1: don't try to ford swollen creeks after heavy rain. Wait
Speaker 1: till it waited out or turned back. Any stream water
Speaker 1: you drink should be filtered, boiled, or treated. And you
Speaker 1: want to dress in layers and carry rain protection to
Speaker 1: prevent hypothermia.
Speaker 2: Even in mild seasons, wind and rain at five thousand
Speaker 2: feet can drop your core temperature quickly. A dry base
Speaker 2: layer and simple rain jacket or punch will make a
Speaker 2: huge difference. And lastly, be realistic about your limits and
Speaker 2: turn back early even if something feels off. Most serious
Speaker 2: incidents in the Smokies come down to overconfidence and bad decisions,
Speaker 2: pushing on when you're tired, injured, disoriented, or racing daylight.
Speaker 2: So Mike tell us a little bit about Derek.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the subject of tonight's case is Derek Aluking.
Speaker 3: He was born May thirteenth, nineteen eighty seven, went missing
Speaker 3: March seventeenth, twenty twelve. He was a male aged twenty
Speaker 3: four he was five foot ten to six feet. He
Speaker 3: was about two fifteen to two hundred and twenty five pounds.
Speaker 3: He had brown hair and a half inch beard. He
Speaker 3: had hazel eyes, though some sources say they were green.
Speaker 3: He also was some kind sometimes went by the nickname DJ,
Speaker 3: and he did have a couple of tattoos of Japanese
Speaker 3: characters meaning to live or life on his upper chest.
Speaker 3: Clothing or gear last scene and so he had a
Speaker 3: gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track pants with a white
Speaker 3: stripe down the side of each leg. He had dark
Speaker 3: colored sneakers, white tennis shoes. The descriptions do very slightly
Speaker 3: across some of the news sources on what footwear, what
Speaker 3: his footwear looked like, so these are just kind of general.
Speaker 3: He possibly had a waterproof watch, and he was possibly
Speaker 3: carrying a real tree camouflage raingear, any black or dark
Speaker 3: blue day pack style backpack. And when I get in
Speaker 3: the timeline, he also he went on a major buying
Speaker 3: spree before he went into the Smokies, so we'll cover
Speaker 3: that in the timeline. Personality, he was described by family
Speaker 3: and friends as a very avid camper and an outdoor enthusiast,
Speaker 3: but not really known as an extreme backcountry survivalist, so not.
Speaker 3: I mean most people aren't known like Joe and I
Speaker 3: aren't known as backcountry extreme survivalists.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we would do well to survive, but
Speaker 2: not thrive. Yeah. Yeah, probably just gotta be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd probably make it for many days, potentially weeks,
Speaker 1: but we'd probably be eating each other in like foot.
Speaker 2: I would be really holding out for a rescue. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a difference between knowing what you should
Speaker 1: do and then actually doing everything correctly when you're in
Speaker 1: that situation. Yes, So yeah, it's easy to say that
Speaker 1: you would be prepared for that. But as many people
Speaker 1: as we talked about in this show, I hear many
Speaker 1: more stories of people getting saved. And when I hear
Speaker 1: about how they got saved and what they were doing,
Speaker 1: so it gives it gives me a lot of confidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just because I know what I should be doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean just like thinking about how Brian
Speaker 1: Sklinsky survived his first disappearance in Great Sand Dunes, just
Speaker 1: sleeping on sand in freezing temperatures with no like no gear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just like, well, I guess I'll lay
Speaker 2: here now. Yeah, and he survived.
Speaker 3: So part of it is luck, part of it is
Speaker 3: location you get lost in, and some of it is
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Following all the rules we tell everyone to follow up. Yes,
Speaker 2: he was known.
Speaker 3: He was a known fan of bear grills, man vers
Speaker 3: wild and was fascinated by survival scenarios, which may have
Speaker 3: influences planning in mindset. And I will say something about
Speaker 3: bear girls. I used to be a big fan. He's fake, but.
Speaker 2: He he's so fake. Yeah. His show is he goes
Speaker 2: to hotels every day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the guy you, I think he knows
Speaker 1: the stuff, but for the shit and he did do that,
Speaker 1: so he was like British Special Forces. So like right
Speaker 1: now he's not He's doing this stuff and he's demonstrating
Speaker 1: it and then going to a hotel and then coming
Speaker 1: back out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all dirty again the.
Speaker 3: Guy who I think the show it's not on there anymore.
Speaker 3: Survivor man. Yeah, that was legit rate his own camera
Speaker 3: less stroud I think was is that the one where
Speaker 3: he had his like the camera shots were like he
Speaker 3: hit at the camera, brought a camera with him, set
Speaker 3: it up and he lived out in the woods or
Speaker 3: wherever he was by himself. Yeah, that is more realistic.
Speaker 3: And Bear Girls, I mean his shows are very interesting
Speaker 3: and informative, but don't have any impression that he's roughing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And that one scene where he he took a snake
Speaker 3: skin and then pete in it in drink it to
Speaker 3: like he was.
Speaker 1: Just so unnecessary, so unnecessary, and he's like, oh it's
Speaker 1: so salty. I was like, oh, why are you doing this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for all we know, it probably was gatorade. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but so I don't know. That's my Bear Girls tangent.
Speaker 1: I love how. I hope this turns into some weird
Speaker 1: beef you end up and Bill you and Bear Girls.
Speaker 2: I mean he probably killed me special Forces. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just helped this beef starts, and I want to
Speaker 1: remain neutral and just keep egging it from both sides.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm yeah, I'm stacking up enemies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you think so you think Bear Girls is
Speaker 1: fake and he probably wasn't even special Forces? HW Mike,
Speaker 1: you I can say that. Yeah, it sounds kind of
Speaker 1: like you're saying that. It kind of sounds like you
Speaker 1: think you're better than Bear Girls. Yeah, no, I think
Speaker 1: that's what you said. Tell everyone tell that's what if
Speaker 1: you know bear girls, Mike says he's better than him.
Speaker 2: There we go, all right, go on, all right, got
Speaker 2: that out of the way.
Speaker 1: Family and friends, back to the character profile here, suggested
Speaker 1: he was generally responsible. He had a stable job in education,
Speaker 1: but may have been quietly struggling with adult pressures and
Speaker 1: grief following his grandfather's death. So that's going to be
Speaker 1: a theme throughout this case that we'll go back to
Speaker 1: in theories. Medical issues, nothing publicly documented of anything, No
Speaker 1: injuries before his hike. He didn't have any chronic medical conditions.
Speaker 1: Occupation hobby.
Speaker 3: He worked as an aid at Peninsula Behavioral Health Center
Speaker 3: often referred to as Peninsula Hospital, near his home in Louisville, Tennessee.
Speaker 3: He was a college graduate of Johnson University, so experiencing
Speaker 3: the wilderness. Like I said earlier, He's described as an
Speaker 3: avid camper and hiker by his friends, with enough experience
Speaker 3: to take day hikes and short trips, but not regarded
Speaker 3: by family or park officials as a deeply seasoned wilderness expert.
Speaker 3: Appalachian trail hikers who spoke with his family believed he
Speaker 3: could survive for some time with the gear he had
Speaker 3: at least theory, and I'll cover all the gear he bought.
Speaker 3: He easily should have been able to survive the conditions
Speaker 3: he would have experienced so experiencing that location. So he
Speaker 3: did appear to have researched the Smokies before this trip.
Speaker 3: He purchased maps in a book about the Smokies and
Speaker 3: its trails shortly beforehand, but there is no real clear
Speaker 3: evidence he had a deep prior on the ground experience
Speaker 3: at Newfound Gap. So jumping right into timeline, we'll start
Speaker 3: on Wednesday, March fourteenth of twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: So essentially, Derek was.
Speaker 3: Just living his normal life in Louisville, Tennessee, and at
Speaker 3: this time, for whatever reason, he ended up going on
Speaker 3: a spending binge for hiking gear, and he bought over
Speaker 3: one thousand dollars worth of camping in survival supplies from
Speaker 3: a Bass Pro shop, Knife Works, and Coleman's. I'll say
Speaker 3: that may sound like a lot of money, but for
Speaker 3: hiking gear, like if.
Speaker 1: You're in the right stuff, that could be like a
Speaker 1: tent in a sleeping bag. Yeah, backpacks could be a
Speaker 1: few hundred dollars. I remember buying an ultra light sleeping
Speaker 1: bag in that was super expensive. And yeah, I think
Speaker 1: my really nice light cold bag that it took to
Speaker 1: Africa was like five hundred dollars. Yeah, so hiking gear
Speaker 1: can add up quickly. Nice pair of boots will run
Speaker 1: you a few hundred bucks. I mean it adds up fast.
Speaker 1: But he did buy a lot of gears. So some
Speaker 1: of the gear included maps of the Smokies, a tent,
Speaker 1: sleeping bag, a pack, axe, a knife sharpener, a compass, thermometer,
Speaker 1: one hundred feet of black parachute, cord head lamp, pocket knife,
Speaker 1: granola bars, an iPod pouch, a waterproof watch, and a
Speaker 1: bear grilled survival tool pack containing a multitool, small flashlight,
Speaker 1: and fire starter. So he's already got more gear than
Speaker 1: most of the people that have gone missing that we've covered,
Speaker 1: And with all that gear and the clothing he had,
Speaker 1: he should have been able to survive a few nights
Speaker 1: in this environment. He also had searched the Great Smoking
Speaker 1: Mountains on his computer and booked a room at a
Speaker 1: hotel in Cherokee, North Carolina, which is a gateway town
Speaker 1: to the park, roughly two hours southeast of his home,
Speaker 1: and he is believed to have stayed at the at
Speaker 1: A Motel six on the night of March fourteenth. It's
Speaker 1: now Thursday, March fifteenth of twenty twelve, so Derek is
Speaker 1: believed to have stayed overnight at the a Smokemont campground
Speaker 1: inside Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and that same day
Speaker 1: he failed to show up for his shift at Peninsula Hospital.
Speaker 1: Calls to his cell phone went unanswered. His roommate, Ryan Molden,
Speaker 1: had noticed Derek's alarm going off continuously that morning and
Speaker 1: initially assumed he had just left early for work and
Speaker 1: forgotten to turn it off. And I think I forgot
Speaker 1: to tell everyone how old he was. He's twenty four.
Speaker 1: So that was like in the back of your head,
Speaker 1: that's why you keep thinking, yeah, you're missing something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so twenty four years old.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, his roommate heard his alarm going off,
Speaker 3: wondered what was going on.
Speaker 2: Something's weird.
Speaker 3: When a mutual friend alerted Ryan, his roommate, that Derek
Speaker 3: had never arrived at work, concern quickly set in, so
Speaker 3: Ryan contacted Derek's parents in Virginia, and obviously they were alarmed.
Speaker 3: They drove to his their son's home in Knoxville. Slash Louisville, Tennessee.
Speaker 3: To begin piecing together what might have happened to him,
Speaker 3: they examined his computer. They discovered searches for the Great
Speaker 3: Smoky Mountains hotel reservations in Cherokee, and the trail of
Speaker 3: survival gear purchases. So Friday March sixteenth, twenty twelve, Derek
Speaker 3: checked into the Microtel Inn and Switees in Cherokee, North Carolina.
Speaker 3: A Bible and some alcohol were later found among his
Speaker 3: belongings at the hotel. His father would go on later
Speaker 3: to note that drinking was not typical for Derek, and
Speaker 3: he suspected his son might have been struggling with depression
Speaker 3: as he tried to navigate adulthood. So that is a
Speaker 3: theme that kind of comes up in this case.
Speaker 1: That outwardly Derek appeared to be pretty normal and having
Speaker 1: a good time, but that he was kind of suffering
Speaker 1: in silence at this point with some type of depression. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and obviously we know that his grandfather had recently died,
Speaker 1: so that might have played something into it.
Speaker 2: And well, I wonder if the Bible I found was
Speaker 2: just the Bible at.
Speaker 1: The hotel, especially in the South, like every hotel has
Speaker 1: a Bible in there. Although the drinking thing, if he
Speaker 1: wasn't normally drinking and he's by himself, then that could
Speaker 1: be yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's not unusual for young adults once they're out
Speaker 3: in the wild to kind of from time to time
Speaker 3: suffer from a little depression because the world is not
Speaker 3: a nice place sometimes. Yep, it can get you down. Absolutely,
Speaker 3: so I did mention this earlier. The timing of his
Speaker 3: disappearance coincided closely with the first anniversary of the death
Speaker 3: of his grandfather, who he was very very close with,
Speaker 3: so probably played some kind of role in this, would
Speaker 3: be my guess. Saturday, March seventeenth to twenty twelve, at
Speaker 3: approximately four am in the morning, hotel surveillance cameras captured
Speaker 3: Derek leaving the Microtel in in Cherokee. He was alone
Speaker 3: and he was carrying what appeared to be a day pack.
Speaker 3: He was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track
Speaker 3: pants like I mentioned, white striped down each side of
Speaker 3: the leg, and dark colored sneakers, and he may have
Speaker 3: also been carrying some rain gear that they couldn't really
Speaker 3: tell with the video. By eight thirty am that morning,
Speaker 3: his white Ford escape was found in the lower lot
Speaker 3: at Newfound Gap, which Joe had mentioned earlier, is at
Speaker 3: about five thy forty eight feet and it's mountain pass
Speaker 3: where the main road through the park acrosses the Appalachian
Speaker 3: Trail straddling the Tennessee North Carolina state line. And the
Speaker 3: family was they were actually the people that discovered his vehicle,
Speaker 3: so it looks like after arriving at Microtelt too late
Speaker 3: to find Eric, they were driving back towards Tennessee when
Speaker 3: they spotted his car in the parking lot and immediately
Speaker 3: contacted park rangers. Inside the vehicle, searchers found his wallet, cash,
Speaker 3: credit cards, and car key. They also found many of
Speaker 3: the survival supplies he had recently purchased, including critically the
Speaker 3: tent and sleeping bag, and they also found kind of
Speaker 3: this strange handwritten note that some sources say it simply
Speaker 3: said don't follow me, while some other sources in the
Speaker 3: news said don't try to follow me. So kind of
Speaker 3: odd he would leave his car keys and that note
Speaker 3: with his stuff with his stuff, so park officials expressed
Speaker 3: uncertainty about whether Derek had actually written the note, despite
Speaker 3: it being a despite it being a sunny Saturday, with
Speaker 3: heavy visitor traffic at one of the park's most popular overlooks.
Speaker 3: Not a single person reported having seen Derek in the
Speaker 3: park when they were interviewed by law enforcement, so that's
Speaker 3: also very interesting. It's now March seventeenth to the twenty third.
Speaker 3: Park rangers launched an immediate search and rescue operation radiating
Speaker 3: outward from the Newfound Gap. Over the several days, these
Speaker 3: searchers hiked a lot of miles, so some estimates of
Speaker 3: upwards of fifty five to seventy miles of trail were
Speaker 3: searched in just the first few days, including sections of
Speaker 3: the Appalachian Trail and connecting side trails. They had multiple
Speaker 3: scent tracking dog teams in the area. They were giving
Speaker 3: samples of Derek's clothing to lock onto ascent. Helicopter sweeps
Speaker 3: were conducted over three separate days, with additional nighttime helicopter operations.
Speaker 3: The North Carolina and Tennessee Highway Patrols provided helicopter services
Speaker 3: at no cost to the Park Service, so that was nice.
Speaker 3: So they really have, I mean, within a few days
Speaker 3: they have a massive search operation going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's thick. That is thick. What time of year
Speaker 2: is that picture?
Speaker 1: Uh, November, okay, twenty twenty two, so probably not as
Speaker 1: thick even as it would be in may or, I
Speaker 1: guess March, yeah, maybe, but yeah, it's some thick and
Speaker 1: pretty steep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's some it's yeah. You go down there,
Speaker 2: no one's finding you. Just slow October twenty one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: slow searching. Yeah, holy cow. So yeah.
Speaker 3: Searchers were instructed to check all natural and mad made shelters.
Speaker 3: They spoke with everyone they encountered, and they were keeping
Speaker 3: their eyes peeled for camel crush cigarette butts.
Speaker 2: So that was so he was.
Speaker 3: He smoked cigarettes, and that would have been the brand
Speaker 3: he smoked. And despite the warm, unseasonable weather that should
Speaker 3: have improved his chances of survival. The massive effort turned
Speaker 3: up nothing. Not a single footprint, discarded item a cigarette
Speaker 3: butt could be conclusively linked to Derek. It's now Thursday,
Speaker 3: March twenty second of twenty twelve. By the sixth day,
Speaker 3: the search was at a critical juncture. They had approximately
Speaker 3: sixty searchers split into fourteen teams for another push. Supervisory
Speaker 3: park ranger Joe Pons said, let's try to make another
Speaker 3: hard push for this guy today. The search had now
Speaker 3: moved significantly off trail. Rangers looked for places where it
Speaker 3: would be appealing to get off trail and hiked those
Speaker 3: routes until the terrain came impassable, making every area surveyed
Speaker 3: on GIS paced maps. During one sweep, a helicopter spotted
Speaker 3: a tarp near Deep Creek and a team was quickly dispatched,
Speaker 3: but the equipment appeared to have been in place for
Speaker 3: a long time and had no connection to Derek. Bob Miller,
Speaker 3: a park spokesman, noted the most disturbing aspect of the case.
Speaker 3: He said, there was a ton of people in the
Speaker 3: park that day. It was a nice day. Mean he
Speaker 3: got off trail right away, maybe so. About forty five
Speaker 3: National Park Service employees and roughly fifteen civilian volunteers participated
Speaker 3: in the search effort. Personnel from Blue Ridge Parkway, Cherokee
Speaker 3: Tribal Ems, and search and rescue dog associations from North
Speaker 3: in South Carolina also assisted. It's now Friday, March twenty
Speaker 3: third of twenty twelve. After a full week of heavy
Speaker 3: searching with nothing found beyond the vehicle, park officials made
Speaker 3: the difficult decision to scale back the operation. Park spokeswoman
Speaker 3: Molly Schroer acknowledged the frustration. She was quoted without clues,
Speaker 3: you are just kind of searching in the woods. Park
Speaker 3: Superintendent dale A. Ditmissen added, it's very disheartening for the
Speaker 3: searchers to work so hard for so long to find
Speaker 3: a missing individual without success. I can't imagine the effort
Speaker 3: that's expended and then they turn up empty handed. Though
Speaker 3: they found the car, yeah, and a lot of his stuff,
Speaker 3: so that's more than some cases.
Speaker 1: And I do want to note that for people who
Speaker 1: are watching, this is a map Mike create it that
Speaker 1: will start coming along with all these episodes. So it
Speaker 1: has also I'm following along on the map and it
Speaker 1: kind of shows the different areas where this stuff is happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can click on if you x out
Speaker 3: of that, you can click on the different points of
Speaker 3: interest and they will pop up with information.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been following along with you real time. There
Speaker 2: you go.
Speaker 1: I just got to make it now to move when
Speaker 1: I talk, yes, and then you don't need me.
Speaker 2: Then I don't need you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, this is exactly what I've been working towards. So,
Speaker 1: like I said, the search is wrapping up. They really
Speaker 1: haven't found anything other than the vehicle. So it's weekend
Speaker 1: March twenty fourth to twenty fifth of twenty twelve. So
Speaker 1: after the official search was skilled back, Derek's family, along
Speaker 1: with more than twenty five civilian volunteers, continued searching for
Speaker 1: two additional days. His parents set up a blue minivan
Speaker 1: decorated with fine Derek signs photos of their son and
Speaker 1: his Teddy Bear sporting a plaid and red bow tie
Speaker 1: at the Newfound Gap overlook. They pressed flyers into the
Speaker 1: hands of every single person they found. They pleaded with
Speaker 1: hikers heading out on the trails to keep an eye out.
Speaker 1: The father was quoted as saying, we tried to talk
Speaker 1: with every hiker. Some were coming from the trailheads. They
Speaker 1: were sitting there looking for him, and they would see
Speaker 1: hikers coming out of the woods and they would do
Speaker 1: like a double tick like his said Derek, and unfortunately
Speaker 1: none of them were.
Speaker 3: They set up a Facebook page titled to Find Derek
Speaker 3: Luking and it was kind of the coordinate awareness efforts,
Speaker 3: and one of the family members wrote on the page,
Speaker 3: we will never stop looking for Derek, although we still
Speaker 3: think he is in the park. An off trail there
Speaker 3: is possibility that he is out in the world somewhere,
Speaker 3: So we will put the word out in the world
Speaker 3: as much as we can while still making sure people
Speaker 3: know who he is in the Smoky Mountains. Now, real
Speaker 3: crazy thing. So there was a very weird coincidence that
Speaker 3: happened during the search for Derek. So just one day
Speaker 3: after the search for Derek, a second man vanished in
Speaker 3: the same area of the park. Michael Giovanni a Cochini.
Speaker 3: He was twenty three from Nashville, Tennessee, and he was
Speaker 3: last seen by friends at the Walmart in a nearby
Speaker 3: town on March eighteenth. His car was noticed by rangers
Speaker 3: at a parking area near the park visitor center outside
Speaker 3: Gatlinburg that same day, and this guy was not known
Speaker 3: to be a hiker and had no gear for hiking
Speaker 3: or overnight camping. When his car remained in the same
Speaker 3: spot two days later, rangers launched a second simultaneous search,
Speaker 3: but obviously both searches were eventually called off without resolution.
Speaker 3: Now fast forward to August seventeenth of twenty twelve, a
Speaker 3: park employee stumbled upon a backpack in the woods that
Speaker 3: was confirmed to belong to Michael. In the subsequent search
Speaker 3: rangers located clothing consistent with what he was last seen wearing,
Speaker 3: along with his cell phone. Then, on August twentieth, searchers
Speaker 3: discovered skull fragments just three tenths of a mile from
Speaker 3: where his car had been found, and the reins were
Speaker 3: eventually positively identified as Michael's. Very interesting. Another gentleman went missing,
Speaker 3: like right in the same area.
Speaker 2: They seemed to wrap that one up relatively quickly too.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean they found somehow found his remains quickly,
Speaker 3: but sadly. Through this time, there were no new developments
Speaker 3: made in Derek's case, so twenty thirteen case still open.
Speaker 3: By June of twenty thirteen, Park spokeswoman Molly Shore confirmed
Speaker 3: that his case remained open and active. She was quoted like,
Speaker 3: what the Derek Luke case. They've never located him and
Speaker 3: it is still considered an open case. She said, if
Speaker 3: a lead comes up, we will look into it.
Speaker 1: And I searched for the Facebook page and it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to exist anymore. I saw a couple individual posts
Speaker 1: that weren't lolated, but I don't think the page is live,
Speaker 1: so I can't get anything from there.
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought I was on it.
Speaker 1: I searched it exactly how it was labeled. So okay,
Speaker 1: I'll keep digging. I'll keep taking.
Speaker 3: Twenty fifteen and beyond. So by twenty fifteen, which we're
Speaker 3: now approaching, the third anniversary of Derek's disappearance, his case
Speaker 3: remain listed in the National Missing an Unidentified Person system
Speaker 3: known as name US. And during this time, the Facebook
Speaker 3: page that Joe is trying to find remained active trying
Speaker 3: to spread the word. And I may have read that
Speaker 3: information from a news article now that I'm thinking now
Speaker 3: that I think.
Speaker 2: About it, that was just on Facebook.
Speaker 3: No, that it referenced their Facebook page, So NETT page
Speaker 3: would be over ten years old now.
Speaker 1: Something I'm wondering if somebody actually closed it, because sometimes
Speaker 1: people just let it kind of hang out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'll keep looking, Okay.
Speaker 3: Appalachian Trail through hikers who had spoken with the family
Speaker 3: over the years expressed the view that given the supplies
Speaker 3: Derek likely had on him the survival a pack axe,
Speaker 3: parachute cord, firestarter, compass, headlamp, pocket knife, and granola bars,
Speaker 3: that he could have theoretically survived in the woods for
Speaker 3: an extended period. It's now twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, we're
Speaker 3: getting more updates the Charlie Project, which is a great
Speaker 3: website to look up missing person cases. They updated their
Speaker 3: case on Derek with some photographs and updated clothing and
Speaker 3: jewelry descriptions. By twenty eighteen, it's been six years now
Speaker 3: since he went missing. His family still searching for answers
Speaker 3: and hoping to find out what happened to him, but
Speaker 3: nothing has come of it, and from twenty nineteen to
Speaker 3: the present day, the National Park Service Investigative Services Branch
Speaker 3: continues to list Derek on its official cold case page,
Speaker 3: and his direction of travel from Newfound Gap to this
Speaker 3: day remains unknown. As of May twenty sixth, the month
Speaker 3: we're recording this, no it remains clothing, gear, or any
Speaker 3: physical trace of Derek has ever been recovered from the
Speaker 3: Smokies or anywhere else, and his case remains open and unsolved.
Speaker 3: So that's why we're asking everyone listening. If you happen
Speaker 3: to know any information on this case, you can call
Speaker 3: the National Park Service number at eight two eight four
Speaker 3: nine seven nine four zero. It's never too late to
Speaker 3: send in a tip. Maybe you were hiking and came
Speaker 3: across a gear that's at the time just seemed like
Speaker 3: somebody dropped something. But now that you heard this episode,
Speaker 3: you're thinking, you know what, that looks like something he
Speaker 3: might have carried. So even a tip like that, if
Speaker 3: you remember where you were and when it was, you
Speaker 3: can put that hip in there. And to this day,
Speaker 3: if its case is open, they'll go out there and search.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe they'd find his remains. Who knows. Okay, theories,
Speaker 3: got four of them here. I'll read him out and
Speaker 3: then I want to hear what you think. Okay, So
Speaker 3: theory number one probably the most likely wilderness misadventure.
Speaker 2: That's like every one of these cases.
Speaker 3: So Derek enters the Smokey's intending to test survival skills
Speaker 3: or spend time off grid. He's been watching a lot
Speaker 3: of Bear Girls. He's got a Bear Girls survival kit,
Speaker 3: he's been watching survival shows. He's probably like, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: go try this out, and but he becomes lost, injured,
Speaker 3: and succumbs to the train. Why this fits well, He
Speaker 3: bought extensive survival gear and studied the park beforehand. He
Speaker 3: was a fan of survival shows like The Man Versus
Speaker 3: Wild Show. The terrain around Newfound Gap is like it's brutal.
Speaker 3: Joe described it steep drop offs, dense vegetation, hard to
Speaker 3: search ranges. Rangers even suggested he may have gotten in
Speaker 3: over his head when he went out there. Why it
Speaker 3: doesn't fit if he's really into survival and everything. He
Speaker 3: left critical gear like tents, a tent and sleeping bag
Speaker 3: in his car, so that's gear you would take with you.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't leave that behind. And there was no trace
Speaker 3: ever found despite a massive search. So even off trail
Speaker 3: cases usually produced something. Gear remains are central, and we
Speaker 3: mentioned another guy went missing in March and they found
Speaker 3: his remains by August, so that is unusual. Second theory,
Speaker 3: this is always tough one to talk about, but suicide
Speaker 3: or mental health crisis. This one is basically you can
Speaker 3: probably guess that he intentionally went into the park to
Speaker 3: end his own life. Now we don't throw this theory
Speaker 3: around lightly, but there's a few things in this case
Speaker 3: that would lend to maybe something was going on with
Speaker 3: Derek that people weren't aware of, that he was kind
Speaker 3: of suffering, like I said in silence. So the first
Speaker 3: big one is the note that was left in the car.
Speaker 3: Now we don't know who wrote that note because he
Speaker 3: left his keys in the car, so anyone could have
Speaker 3: gotten in his car. It'd be kind of a weird thing,
Speaker 3: that random being a break in their car and say
Speaker 3: don't follow me, and then leave wallet and cash and
Speaker 3: everything behind me. So, but we don't know who, but
Speaker 3: he left a note that says don't follow me, which
Speaker 3: strongly suggests intent to disappear. The timing of his disappearance
Speaker 3: aligns with the anniversary of his grandfather's death. He was
Speaker 3: very close with him.
Speaker 1: I imagine his grandfather was probably like a father figure
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, and his passing probably devastated him. I
Speaker 1: know from personal life experience.
Speaker 3: You two, Joe, probably at twenty four, you haven't experienced
Speaker 3: a lot of death in the family yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a new type of pain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a time of your life where some
Speaker 3: of your older relatives are starting to pass away, and
Speaker 3: up until that point everyone alive memory as a kid,
Speaker 3: like all your relatives are alive, and like family gatherings,
Speaker 3: like all the grandparents, they're a great uncle's aunts.
Speaker 2: And you get older and you got to start dealing
Speaker 2: with start dwindling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone handles that differently. And if he was really close.
Speaker 3: It probably hit him hard. Yeah, reports of possible depression
Speaker 3: and unusual behavior. So the Bible alcohol though, like Joe said,
Speaker 3: the Bible in a southern hotel.
Speaker 2: Now they're common all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but alcohol, if he's not a big drinker, that
Speaker 3: is a little out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2: And leaving behind.
Speaker 3: While his wallet, money, and gear does fit someone planning
Speaker 3: to not return, but he didn't leave any kind of
Speaker 3: notes like other than to don't follow me. He didn't
Speaker 3: leave like a letter to someone or why this doesn't
Speaker 3: fit No body or evidence was ever found the level,
Speaker 3: so the level of preparation, all the gear, purchases, planning
Speaker 3: feels pretty excessive. If your goal was to go out
Speaker 3: there and not come back. Yeah, how would you buy
Speaker 3: all that stuff, read all those books.
Speaker 2: And then leave in the car? Yeah, So that doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, most suicides in national parks are eventually located,
Speaker 3: especially after larger search and rescue operations, so the fact
Speaker 3: that nothing was ever found is a little odd. A
Speaker 3: third theory voluntary disappearance, so he basically staged his own disappearance.
Speaker 3: This basically is he staged it at Newfound Gap to
Speaker 3: make it look like he vanished into the wilderness, but
Speaker 3: actually left the starting life. The note in a banded
Speaker 3: vehicle could be intentional misdirection, early morning departure and secretive
Speaker 3: planning behavior. Cash purchases leave gaps in a paper trail,
Speaker 3: and zero evidence in the park could mean he never
Speaker 3: went deep into it. Now, why this doesn't work? He
Speaker 3: left behind his wallet, cash and credit cards, car keys.
Speaker 3: Not having all that stuff makes starting a new life
Speaker 3: a little harder. Yeah, no confirmed sightings, financial activity, or
Speaker 3: identity use since twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: And I'll just.
Speaker 1: Say, in modern times, especially twenty twenty six, it's pretty
Speaker 1: darn hard to go anywhere and not be filmed or.
Speaker 2: Photographed or yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3: You would imagine at some point he would thought maybe
Speaker 3: not turn up, turn up maybe yeah, who knows. In
Speaker 3: one of my points here was disappearing completely in the
Speaker 3: modern area is very hard to pull off long term.
Speaker 3: You'd probably do it for a couple of years, but
Speaker 3: at some point, I mean, you'd have to get a job,
Speaker 3: make money, yeah, get an apartment, a lot of things.
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to share your identity with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you're somehow connected to some CD underground where Yeah,
Speaker 1: fake documents and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the least supported theory is foul play. So
Speaker 3: this goes Derek encountered another person who caused his disappearance,
Speaker 3: either before or after reaching the park. Why it could
Speaker 3: work again, lack of evvidence can sometimes point to a
Speaker 3: third party involvement, and the coincidence of another disappearance in
Speaker 3: the same area at the same time does raise a
Speaker 3: few suspicions something weird was going on. But why this
Speaker 3: doesn't fit is no signs of a struggle at the
Speaker 3: vehicle or a hotel, no witnesses, suspects, or investigative leads
Speaker 3: pointing to another person. And like I mentioned earlier in
Speaker 3: the timeline, this was a sunny day, very that overlook
Speaker 3: is very populated, busy place, and people don't even remember
Speaker 3: seeing him there, so that's a little strange. And the
Speaker 3: timeline strongly suggests he traveled alone and voluntarily entered the area.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, what do you think? This one's
Speaker 1: so weird. It is a little weird. I feel like
Speaker 1: you can be three of them. I feel like, unfortunately
Speaker 1: suicide is one of them potential. I feel like it
Speaker 1: could be he was testing his skill and didn't make it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they just haven't found him because it's fair very thick,
Speaker 1: and there's a part of me that thinks it could
Speaker 1: be connected to the same other guy who went missing. Okay,
Speaker 1: like did those two coincidentally be in the same the
Speaker 1: wrong place at the wrong time. Interesting, And that's like
Speaker 1: your Hollywood theory, it kind of is, But I mean
Speaker 1: it's I mean, coincidences can happen, but not it's not
Speaker 1: like an I don't know. That just seems like two
Speaker 1: very coincidental things that are very similar happening at around
Speaker 1: the very same time. So I don't know, it's a
Speaker 1: matter of like when they reported the other guy missing, well,
Speaker 1: he was at the store. So have you lined up,
Speaker 1: like how much time has passed from when Derek was
Speaker 1: missing to the other guy, So.
Speaker 3: The other guy went missing one second?
Speaker 2: Here, I have the map pulled up. I can go here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if I put that in the map,
Speaker 1: March seventh, No, it's in there. I saw March seventeenth,
Speaker 1: Derek left. Here you go March eighteenth, So it's like
Speaker 1: the last scene the next day after Derek was seen leaving,
Speaker 1: So it could have theoretically gone missing on the same day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like actually so yeah, like they're going to the same
Speaker 1: area on potentially the same day and one one was found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the note is weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the note is weird in your car keys, and
Speaker 3: while in the car, it's like a contradiction. He left,
Speaker 3: he went and spent all that money on hiking gear,
Speaker 3: was like a big nut about survival, and then leaves
Speaker 3: half of it in his car.
Speaker 1: What if Okay, here's my Hollywood. Okay, let's say it's
Speaker 1: a killer and he is following Derek and that guy
Speaker 1: leaves the note in there, like like have they did
Speaker 1: an analysis on it? Is it Derek's handwriting on the
Speaker 1: note and the guy who's going to attack him throws
Speaker 1: it in there or something or after maybe he saw.
Speaker 2: That that's his car. Yeah, and oh how about this? Okay,
Speaker 2: how about this? Okay, what if this? This is the Hollywood.
Speaker 1: The killer is on the trail, murders Derek and the
Speaker 1: other guy okay, takes Derek's stuff, has his keys, can
Speaker 1: go to the parking lot and click the button, find
Speaker 1: out which card is, throw all the stuff in there
Speaker 1: and leave a note and make it look like that. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe he was interacting with addiction. Yes, exactly interesting. That's
Speaker 1: this is why it's Hollywood. I mean, you have to
Speaker 1: be very fairly smart and to do something like that.
Speaker 1: But I don't know that it's that one's the Hollywood one.
Speaker 1: I think more likely it's he chose to go out
Speaker 1: there and not come back, or he was attempting to
Speaker 1: survive on purpose, so he said, hey, put the note like, hey,
Speaker 1: don't look for me.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this on purpose.
Speaker 1: Like that could have been him leaving the note saying
Speaker 1: I'm going out there to do a survival thing like
Speaker 1: don't look for me, I'll be fine. Okay, that seems
Speaker 1: you know, Okham's razor.
Speaker 2: That one's most likely.
Speaker 1: But other than that, I think it's very coincidental that
Speaker 1: two people potentially on the same day went missing and
Speaker 1: one that turned up they found his remains. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they just have it on the other one yet.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think my most likely theory and
Speaker 3: I have a theory on why the tent and sleeping
Speaker 3: bag were in the car. So he gets to that
Speaker 3: campground area early in the morning, he probably doesn't want it.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's not even light and dark.
Speaker 3: It's still dark out, so he's like, you know, what,
Speaker 3: I'm going to go on a day hike this morning
Speaker 3: and just hike around a bit. I'll come back to
Speaker 3: my car, set my camp up at the campground when
Speaker 3: it's light out. That would make sense. Then why he
Speaker 3: left the tent and sleeping bag in the car. If
Speaker 3: you're planning to just hike for a few hours and
Speaker 3: then come back to a campground and set up camp,
Speaker 3: why would you hike with your tent and sleeping bag
Speaker 3: in your backpack? So like, yeah, I'm picturing he probably
Speaker 3: was planning to come back to his car at some
Speaker 3: point the set up camp, and maybe he just accidentally
Speaker 3: forgot his keys in the car.
Speaker 2: I've done that.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not People forget their car keys in
Speaker 3: their car all the time.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: I once went to the grocery store after work and
Speaker 3: forgot to turn my car off, got out, went in
Speaker 3: and shop for twenty minutes, came back out, got in.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's weird. It's on. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I left it on while I was in the store.
Speaker 2: You're in the thick of it with children right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have like fog brand, So leaving your keys
Speaker 1: in the car, I can totally buy that, and I
Speaker 1: think having when I was younger, I used to watch
Speaker 1: the shows it's on History Channel called Alone, where they
Speaker 1: would drop people off in the wilderness and whoever survived
Speaker 1: the longest win like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that would get me like jazzed up to go hiking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so like you might want to go try something like yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I can picture young guy.
Speaker 3: He's in the hiking he's been watching all these bear
Speaker 3: Girls shows and the guy in those shows it's cool,
Speaker 3: he's doing cool.
Speaker 1: He was talking like this is so intense and he's
Speaker 1: doing crazy stuff. And at times like these, when the
Speaker 1: stone waters, sometimes you have to drink your own piss. Yes,
Speaker 1: So I can picture that Derek probably after months or
Speaker 1: years of watching these shows, he finally gets to the
Speaker 1: Smokey's he's out on the trail. He's probably a little
Speaker 1: overconfident in his abilities because he's been watching so many
Speaker 1: of those shows. Sure, and something happened where he either
Speaker 1: went off trail and got injured or whatever like you said,
Speaker 1: and he fell, or he's in an area that is
Speaker 1: hard to search, and that that would be why his
Speaker 1: tent and sleeping bag were still in the car because
Speaker 1: he was planning to go back maybe to get that
Speaker 1: and then set up camp, but he never did. Does
Speaker 1: still doesn't explain the note. That's weird.
Speaker 2: Yep. So that's why.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could explain the note. It's don't hate
Speaker 1: I left all my stuff in here, don't look for me.
Speaker 2: I'm fine.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you think he would write out an explanation.
Speaker 1: I mean instead of being like a cryptic.
Speaker 3: That's two guys have done a show on missing people
Speaker 3: for nine years, would do like write out a detailed
Speaker 3: note like, hey, I'm okay, I will be back.
Speaker 2: I'm practicing my survival skills.
Speaker 3: But out here a young guy who's just going out
Speaker 3: hiking probably like he don't follow me. Okay, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're right, could be just mixed communications. He in his
Speaker 3: head he thought that note would be more x you know,
Speaker 3: explanatory to whoever found it. Yeah, when in the end
Speaker 3: it really just opened a whole can of worms. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I guess twenty four year old and he would leave
Speaker 3: a dumb note too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that doesn't I would say.
Speaker 3: I think if I was given percentage weights to the theories,
Speaker 3: I would say overconfidence from watching beer Girls and then
Speaker 3: getting lost. Probably seventy eighty percent. Okay, I would say
Speaker 3: foul play is like one percent. I don't think it
Speaker 3: was foul play. I think it's like two percent because
Speaker 3: the other guy, the other guy. Yeah, it doubles. I
Speaker 3: think suicide ten percent, just because of the note and
Speaker 3: the grandfather passing away and the family maybe suggesting he
Speaker 3: might have been suffering from depression. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: I have a hard time with that theory, just because
Speaker 3: he went and bought all that stuff and he was
Speaker 3: planning it, and he was researching it, and he like
Speaker 3: really loved these survival shows. That to me doesn't seem
Speaker 3: like a guy who's the other guy who went missing,
Speaker 3: who went out there with nothing that now I don't
Speaker 3: know anything about him, so this but that if someone
Speaker 3: said suicide to me, would make more sense.
Speaker 1: You didn't have any gear, walked out there. He just
Speaker 1: went out there, Yeah, and didn't recently purchase a time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy was like ready to go, like ready to
Speaker 1: survive out in the wilderness. So it wouldn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me then then he would go and do that.
Speaker 1: So totally, but I still can't rule it out just
Speaker 1: because of all the stuff the family said, so yes,
Speaker 1: and then all the other theories, the rest of the percentages, yeah,
Speaker 1: zero point five percent, whatever, whenever I have left whatever,
Speaker 1: Eagles one hundred and three.
Speaker 3: Though I do like your Hollywood theory. I feel like
Speaker 3: there is there's more than a zero percent chance something
Speaker 3: weird happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's high percent, but something could have
Speaker 1: that is just a little too coincidental. It's same time,
Speaker 1: same age kind of guy, Like, I'm not a coincidence guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do happen. But people also win the lottery.
Speaker 1: You know who doesn't most people? Yeah, so somebody has
Speaker 1: to win it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, another another baffling case, another bathly case. As usual.
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think, and thanks again for
Speaker 1: tuning into our show. We appreciate you all for listening
Speaker 1: and sharing locations and known with your friends and family.
Speaker 1: Be sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and YouTube, where you can find the videos of each episode. Also,
Speaker 1: if you'd like to support the show monetarily, please visit
Speaker 1: our website or Facebook store to buy some sweet Sweet swag. Additionally,
Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our patron account, YouTube and Apple
Speaker 1: where we'll have access to special events additional shows for
Speaker 1: paid customers only. Lastly, when enjoying the beauty of nature,
Speaker 1: whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk, always remember
Speaker 1: to leave no trace.
Speaker 2: Thanks and we will see you all next time.