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Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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us as we dive into the deep end of the

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unexplainable world and try.

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Speaker 2: To piece together what happened.

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Speaker 1: If you are listening to Locations Unknown, ooh, what's up everybody,

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and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown.

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Speaker 2: I'm your co host, Joe.

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Speaker 1: You rott On with me as always is the type

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of guy that refers to the hard coding of an

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eminem as the skin Mike fanned Bogart. Thank you, Jill.

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I've never heard that before. That is That's a good one.

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It's so gross, it is gross this skin.

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Speaker 2: I love this.

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Speaker 1: I love the skin on my m and MS. Yeah,

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I think just grosses me out here in that. But

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that's a good one.

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Speaker 2: I read that and I was like, ooh, that's well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone who's tuned in for another episode

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before we get going here, and just a couple quick announcements. First,

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new Patreon shoutouts only got one this week, so thank

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you to Gwen Picclow for supporting the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Gwen, we really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It's for slowly getting better equipment and someday we'll have

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a whole team of little minions for us that'll do

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our bidding. And yeah, absolutely, but right now it's just

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me and Joe. You want to call the show, you

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can call two eight three nine one six nine one three,

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leave a voicemail or text. I think some one recently

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texted it and said, do you get texts?

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Speaker 2: I forgot to.

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Speaker 1: So you forgot and I forgot so I will text

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you back. Whoever that was, that's awesome.

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Speaker 3: We have some other podcasts on our up and coming

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podcast network Off the Trails. Who runs this park crime

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off the Grid Relish And I said this last time

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if anyone's listening also a curator in the podcast space

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and you're looking for up and coming network to join,

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We've were on a very good plan with a spreaker,

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so you get you can get hosting for free, and

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you get access to their ad network and the.

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Speaker 1: Whole deal, the whole We had someone we can't say

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their name yet, we haven't inked it, but we've got

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another person coming on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, We've got more that are in the works for joining,

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so stay tuned for that. You can also sport the

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podcast through Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions, on Apple and Spreaker.

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We have a store where we have some hats and

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shirts and other little things you can buy. And if

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money's tight, because I was just at the gas station

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the other day and gas from my car was five

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point fifty nine a gallon, and you don't have the

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money to support us monetarily, always just leave a like

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a comment. Subscribe wherever you listen, or even if you

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listen on Apple and don't on Spotify but have Spotify,

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subscribe on there too.

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Speaker 2: You know it helps the algorithms. Just do it.

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Speaker 3: Promote our show. So and the best form of help

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is word of mouth to your friends. Just talk about

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our show until they disown you. Then they won't want

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to listen to Then they won't. Yeah, so anything in

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you are not?

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Speaker 2: You look tan. And for those watching, what looks different

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about show? My mustache? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: It was just down on the keys spearfishing for hog Fast.

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It was awesome. I didn't win this year. Yes, that's

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boss hog two years in a row. This would have

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been the third I lost to Kyle. He deserved it,

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he got He beat me by an inch and a quarter.

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Was that mustache of punishment for losing? No, it's probably

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why I got second though, you know, as.

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Speaker 2: A a dynamic. Yeah, it was I was too slow

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in the waters catching.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well that sounds fun. You look for Italian, you

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looke tan.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was just out on the water for eight hours

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a day and the Gulf sounds nice.

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Speaker 2: It was awesome.

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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to

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explore locations unknown.

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Speaker 2: We'll edit that out, Nope.

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Speaker 1: March seventeenth, twenty twelve, a twenty four year old leaves

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a hotel in Cherokee, North Carolina, before dawn and drives

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into Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Hours later, his fourd

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escape is found with his wallet, keys, cash, and survival

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gear still inside. A short note says, don't follow me.

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Search teams, helicopters, canine units, and volunteers scour the Appalachian

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Trail Corridor, steep drainages and dense off trail terrain but

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find nothing.

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Speaker 2: No clothing, no gear, no trace. Join us this.

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Speaker 1: Week as we investigate the baffling disappearance of Derek Joseph Luking.

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Speaker 2: Going on. I know, we'll do a lie. We haven't

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covered Great Smoky Mountains over a year.

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Speaker 1: In a hot minute, yeah, we usually do. Seems like

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one or two cases of ear in this park.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and for how old it is, you think there'll

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be more.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, well it's such a mysterious place and I

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love the stories out of there. My daughters are a

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huge fan of the Smoky's lore. Okay, there's just tons

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like we're not supposed to whistle there, you know, like

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all the rules, and we we did a Urban Legends

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thing on it episode on some from there. Yeah, so

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they love they love that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't believe we just don't have more maybe

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bottom really, Yeah, it is beautiful. Have you been there?

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Speaker 1: I have, Yes, I took my family there and we

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did all the things you're not supposed to and we

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were just fine. So the Great Smoking Mountain National Park

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is five hundred and twenty two thousand acres. Some of

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the locations we're going to be talking about in this

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story are the Newfound Gap High Mountain Pass, which is

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at about five thy forty six feet and it's on

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US four forty one at the Tennessee North Carolina state line,

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and a major overlook and parking area. The park seas

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roughly twelve million visitors per year twelve point one or

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twelve point two almost million visitors per year SI Park.

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It's a very busy park. It's also the most biodiverse

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park in the entire National Park system. So scientists have

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documented more than twenty two thousand species in the Smokies

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and estimate as many as sixty thousand to eighty thousand

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may live there.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy. That is a ton of species living there. Bugs.

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I've met a lot of.

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Speaker 1: It's known as the salamander capital of the world, so

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some of them at least are salamanders.

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Speaker 2: About thirty of them yep.

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Speaker 1: The thirty different species of salamanders across five families, including

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endemics like Jordan's red cheeked salamander. On any given day,

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salamanders likely outnumber all other vertebrae in the park.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: The quote unquote smoke is actually plant vapor that turns

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the air blue. Trees and plants emit volatile organic compounds

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that create a blue tinged haze when they scatter light.

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It's informally called Wildflower National Park. So the Smokies has

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fifteen hundred species of flowering plants, one of the highest

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counts of any temperate region on Earth, which is why

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spring wildflower pilgrimages.

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Speaker 2: Are a big deal here.

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Speaker 1: You're also when you're there walking through one of the

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oldest mountain ranges on the planet. Geologists estimate the Smokies

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are roughly two hundred to three hundred million years old,

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far older than the Rockies based on the rock weathering

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and soil evidence. So that's why it's like not such

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an aggressive.

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Speaker 2: Seep and weather down. It was probably just like the

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Rockies and the wind blew it down. Yeah, that's how long.

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How old it is? It's old. Did you know the

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park never closes. I did not.

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Speaker 1: So while individual roads, trails, or facilities can shut down

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for weather or maintenance, the park as a whole doesn't

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have a closing time. You can legally enter twenty four

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to seven year round if conditions allow. It quietly preserves

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one of the largest collections of historic structures in any

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national park. So there are more than ninety historic buildings, cabins, churches, barns, schools,

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and mills that have been preserved or rehabilitated, especially in

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Cade's Cove and a long Roaring Fork. The Smokies is

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one of the few major national parks with no entrance fee.

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Thanks to historic agreements over US four forty one Newfound

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Gap Road right of way when the land was transferred

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to the federal government. So that's also why it's open

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twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 3: And probably why twelve million people visited there. You go, Yeah,

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just people drive through there just because it's part of

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the road. They're like, visitor, visitor, visit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk a little bit about the features. Starting

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with climate. So in mid March, the Smokies are in

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that uneasy transition between winter and spring.

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Speaker 2: What do we call that, bookends? Did you call it

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a shoulder season? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Was it shoulder season? Yeah, that's what it's normally called.

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But I forgot what you called it. Oh man, now

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I can't remember. Yeah, or you didn't hear about it ever. Yeah,

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I think that was it too. You're like, I'd never

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heard it called that shoulder season. Yeah, but I called

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it something different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what it was.

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Speaker 1: Call us and tell us. So down in the valleys

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around Cherokee and Gatlinburg, a day can feel almost comfortable,

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with the afternoon temperatures often climbing into the sixties and

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even low seventies, especially by late March. Nights there usually

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fall into the forties or fifties, cool but manageable if

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you're prepared. Up on the ridgeline, where the Newfound Gap sits,

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it's a different world. The passes around five thousand feet

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and temperatures drop several degrees for every thousand feet of elevation.

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A day that feels mild in town can be ten

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to fifteen degrees colder on the crest, with raw wind

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cutting across the parking lots and trailheads. A spring afternoon

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might hover around in the forties or low fifties there,

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and once the sun goes down, it's easy for the

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mercury to sink towards the mid thirties or lower. Spring

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in the Smokies is all so infamous for volatile weather.

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Clear skies can give way to low cloud, fog, and

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rain in a matter of hours. Storms roll up the valleys,

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and the higher elevations often see more precipitation than the

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town's below, even when it's truly freezing. A combination of

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cold air, wind, and damp clothing can drive a hiker

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toward hypothermia surprisingly fast. So that's the backdrop to Derek's

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disappearance at straddle.

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Speaker 2: That's what you call its. Sorry for interrupting you.

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Speaker 1: No, that's worth the interruption because I forgot it's hilarious seasons.

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Speaker 2: I knew I would remember. That's wrong and embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: So basically, when Derek was there, a huge, wet, heavily

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forested mountain range where on the same day a visitor

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can be strolling in short sleeves in the Cherokee while

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just a short drive a few thousand feet higher, someone

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without proper shelter is fighting to stay warm through a long, windy,

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wet night. A little bit about the terrain around Newfound Gap.

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Derek stepped into some of the roughest and most deceptive

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terrain in the Smokies. At a broad scale, Newfound Gap

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is a high mountain pass on a main crest of

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the Great Smoky Mountains, Sitting at about five forty six

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to five forty eight feet on the Tennessee North Carolina

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state line. The parking area feels civilized. You have paved lots,

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stone walls, big views, but it's perch on a ridge

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lines surrounded by steep mountain slopes dropping away on both sides.

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Once you step off the asphalt, the terrain changes fast.

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The slopes around the gap are steep to very steep,

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with a mix of rocky outcrops, ledges, and deeply insized

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drainages that funnel water and people downhill in unpredictable ways.

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The forest is also dense. On the climb up from Cherokee,

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you pass through cove hardwoods and mixed oak pine, then

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into northern hardwood and spruce fir forest at the gap itself,

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the kind of dark coniferous woodlands more like New England

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or eastern Canada than the rest of the South underfoot,

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which means thick leaf litter, moss covered rock, and tangled roots,

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with laurel and rhododendron thickets closing in along many of

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the drainages and off trail slopes. Visibility can drop quickly

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once you leave the road or main trails. The corridor

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descriptions for Newfound Gap roads specifically note steeply sloping, sometimes

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rocky outcroppings on one side and forests where the floor

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is only intermittently open on the other. It's very easy

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to lose line of sight or a bearing within a

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short distance off the pavement, so several strenuous trails radiate

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from this hub The Appalachian Trail runs right across this gap,

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heading along a rolling but often narrow ridge with side

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hills that fall away sharply into heavily wooded valleys.

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Speaker 2: Nearby.

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Speaker 1: Routes like Chimney Tops are known for steep, rocky ascents,

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slick rock slabs, and exposure in places. Even though they're

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popular day hikes. The general character of the country derrek

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walking into big elevation changes, lots of vertical relief and

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short horizontal distances, and very few truly gentle off trail options.

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So in practice, for someone who leaves a parking lot

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without a clear route and goes off trail, this area

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quickly becomes amazed deep draws, blind ridges, and thick vegetation

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that hide you from both other hikers and searchers, with

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enough rock and relief to make a simple misstep or

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a slide turn into a serious fall. That's the train

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search teams we're basically trying to grid when they went

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looking for any signs of him. So how can you

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safely hike this area? As we always say, tell someone

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00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,120
your exact plan, what trail had, intended routes, turn around time,

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and when you'll check back in make sure they know

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who to call if you miss that window. It's very

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important because searchers need to know where to start if

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you do go missing. Absolutely, and obviously if you give

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00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,399
people that plan, you want to stick to it. So

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stay on the established and sign trails. Don't just explore

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off the side of Newfound Gap road or cut down drainages.

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It's very easy to get cliffed out, injured, or lost

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in that terrain.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about getting cliffed out in other episodes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately someone passed away. Yeah, and Grand Canyon happened.

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You can get down some of these cliffs, and if

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you don't have climbing gear, you'll just get stuck and

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you won't be able to go any further and you

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can't climb back up. So you want to wear real

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hiking footwear, not sneakers. Use boots or shoes with ankle

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support and good tread. Wet leaves, roots and mossy rock

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around the New Found Gap are major source of slips

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and broken ankles. I would say, out of any gear,

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your footwear is the most important. Absolutely not because I

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mean best case in here if you wear bad footwear

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is you're going to have just a giant blister on

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each foot. Yeah, it's gonna be miserable the rest of

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the troupe. Yeah, and for several days after and have

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00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,039
them broken in. Don't buy new shoes and go hiking

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for the first time. Wear them for like a month.

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I remember our first hiking trip in Candy Lens Shay.

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Our friend that went with us were his army boots.

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Bad idea. He had full foot blisters. It's just the worst. Yes,

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you want to carry a paper map and knows how

285
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,960
to use it, so don't rely on your phone services

286
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,559
spotty and batteries die fast and cold white conditions. Have

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00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,519
a park map or topo and nowhere new pound gap,

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trail junctions and bailout points are You want to pack

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even the basics for a short hike at minimum extra

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00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,879
layer rainshell, hat and gloves and Coolermont's headlamp, water, snacks

291
00:15:56,879 --> 00:15:59,720
and small first aid kit. Check the weather and be

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right for the changes. Storms, fog and temperatures drop hit

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the ridge line much harder than in the valleys. If

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the forecast looks bad or is deteriorating, turn around early

295
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,360
and you want to avoid hiking after dark unless you're

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truly prepared darkness plus deep side hills and roots is

297
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:19,720
a recipe for falls and getting turned around. Plan so

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00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:22,879
you're back at the Newfound Gap before dusk. You want

299
00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:26,360
to treat water and respect high fast streams, so you

300
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:29,480
don't try to ford swollen creeks after heavy rain. Wait

301
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,399
till it waited out or turned back. Any stream water

302
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,639
you drink should be filtered, boiled, or treated. And you

303
00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:38,320
want to dress in layers and carry rain protection to

304
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,600
prevent hypothermia.

305
00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: Even in mild seasons, wind and rain at five thousand

306
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,000
feet can drop your core temperature quickly. A dry base

307
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,360
layer and simple rain jacket or punch will make a

308
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,879
huge difference. And lastly, be realistic about your limits and

309
00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:54,440
turn back early even if something feels off. Most serious

310
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,960
incidents in the Smokies come down to overconfidence and bad decisions,

311
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,559
pushing on when you're tired, injured, disoriented, or racing daylight.

312
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,640
So Mike tell us a little bit about Derek.

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00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the subject of tonight's case is Derek Aluking.

314
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,599
He was born May thirteenth, nineteen eighty seven, went missing

315
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:18,279
March seventeenth, twenty twelve. He was a male aged twenty

316
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,920
four he was five foot ten to six feet. He

317
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,720
was about two fifteen to two hundred and twenty five pounds.

318
00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:28,920
He had brown hair and a half inch beard. He

319
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,119
had hazel eyes, though some sources say they were green.

320
00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:35,960
He also was some kind sometimes went by the nickname DJ,

321
00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:39,559
and he did have a couple of tattoos of Japanese

322
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,440
characters meaning to live or life on his upper chest.

323
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:47,119
Clothing or gear last scene and so he had a

324
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,599
gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track pants with a white

325
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:53,720
stripe down the side of each leg. He had dark

326
00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:59,599
colored sneakers, white tennis shoes. The descriptions do very slightly

327
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,119
across some of the news sources on what footwear, what

328
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,599
his footwear looked like, so these are just kind of general.

329
00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:10,240
He possibly had a waterproof watch, and he was possibly

330
00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:13,759
carrying a real tree camouflage raingear, any black or dark

331
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:16,599
blue day pack style backpack. And when I get in

332
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:20,079
the timeline, he also he went on a major buying

333
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,160
spree before he went into the Smokies, so we'll cover

334
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,480
that in the timeline. Personality, he was described by family

335
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:30,960
and friends as a very avid camper and an outdoor enthusiast,

336
00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:36,200
but not really known as an extreme backcountry survivalist, so not.

337
00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:39,079
I mean most people aren't known like Joe and I

338
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,680
aren't known as backcountry extreme survivalists.

339
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we would do well to survive, but

340
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:49,079
not thrive. Yeah. Yeah, probably just gotta be honest.

341
00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd probably make it for many days, potentially weeks,

342
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,880
but we'd probably be eating each other in like foot.

343
00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 2: I would be really holding out for a rescue. Yeah. Yeah.

344
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean there's a difference between knowing what you should

345
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,960
do and then actually doing everything correctly when you're in

346
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,920
that situation. Yes, So yeah, it's easy to say that

347
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,480
you would be prepared for that. But as many people

348
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:16,079
as we talked about in this show, I hear many

349
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,839
more stories of people getting saved. And when I hear

350
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,200
about how they got saved and what they were doing,

351
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:25,240
so it gives it gives me a lot of confidence.

352
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just because I know what I should be doing.

353
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean just like thinking about how Brian

354
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,000
Sklinsky survived his first disappearance in Great Sand Dunes, just

355
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:41,640
sleeping on sand in freezing temperatures with no like no gear.

356
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just like, well, I guess I'll lay

357
00:19:43,079 --> 00:19:44,559
here now. Yeah, and he survived.

358
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 3: So part of it is luck, part of it is

359
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,480
location you get lost in, and some of it is

360
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,039
you know.

361
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 2: Following all the rules we tell everyone to follow up. Yes,

362
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:53,519
he was known.

363
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 3: He was a known fan of bear grills, man vers

364
00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:00,519
wild and was fascinated by survival scenarios, which may have

365
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:04,079
influences planning in mindset. And I will say something about

366
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,759
bear girls. I used to be a big fan. He's fake, but.

367
00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,039
Speaker 2: He he's so fake. Yeah. His show is he goes

368
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:12,119
to hotels every day.

369
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the guy you, I think he knows

370
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,720
the stuff, but for the shit and he did do that,

371
00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:21,160
so he was like British Special Forces. So like right

372
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,640
now he's not He's doing this stuff and he's demonstrating

373
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,039
it and then going to a hotel and then coming

374
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:25,359
back out.

375
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, all dirty again the.

376
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:30,119
Speaker 3: Guy who I think the show it's not on there anymore.

377
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,000
Survivor man. Yeah, that was legit rate his own camera

378
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,200
less stroud I think was is that the one where

379
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,000
he had his like the camera shots were like he

380
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:38,799
hit at the camera, brought a camera with him, set

381
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:40,920
it up and he lived out in the woods or

382
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,960
wherever he was by himself. Yeah, that is more realistic.

383
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,160
And Bear Girls, I mean his shows are very interesting

384
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,319
and informative, but don't have any impression that he's roughing it.

385
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

386
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,839
Speaker 3: And that one scene where he he took a snake

387
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,799
skin and then pete in it in drink it to

388
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,759
like he was.

389
00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:05,519
Speaker 1: Just so unnecessary, so unnecessary, and he's like, oh it's

390
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:09,599
so salty. I was like, oh, why are you doing this? Yeah,

391
00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:12,400
for all we know, it probably was gatorade. Yeah. Yeah,

392
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,799
but so I don't know. That's my Bear Girls tangent.

393
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,240
I love how. I hope this turns into some weird

394
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:23,279
beef you end up and Bill you and Bear Girls.

395
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 2: I mean he probably killed me special Forces. I don't know.

396
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:28,519
Speaker 1: I just helped this beef starts, and I want to

397
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:31,720
remain neutral and just keep egging it from both sides.

398
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,559
Speaker 2: Well, I'm yeah, I'm stacking up enemies.

399
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you think so you think Bear Girls is

400
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,599
fake and he probably wasn't even special Forces? HW Mike,

401
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,920
you I can say that. Yeah, it sounds kind of

402
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,319
like you're saying that. It kind of sounds like you

403
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,799
think you're better than Bear Girls. Yeah, no, I think

404
00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:48,279
that's what you said. Tell everyone tell that's what if

405
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,000
you know bear girls, Mike says he's better than him.

406
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: There we go, all right, go on, all right, got

407
00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:54,400
that out of the way.

408
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,519
Speaker 1: Family and friends, back to the character profile here, suggested

409
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,880
he was generally responsible. He had a stable job in education,

410
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,160
but may have been quietly struggling with adult pressures and

411
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:10,160
grief following his grandfather's death. So that's going to be

412
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,640
a theme throughout this case that we'll go back to

413
00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:17,640
in theories. Medical issues, nothing publicly documented of anything, No

414
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:20,559
injuries before his hike. He didn't have any chronic medical conditions.

415
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,279
Occupation hobby.

416
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: He worked as an aid at Peninsula Behavioral Health Center

417
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:31,480
often referred to as Peninsula Hospital, near his home in Louisville, Tennessee.

418
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,559
He was a college graduate of Johnson University, so experiencing

419
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:39,880
the wilderness. Like I said earlier, He's described as an

420
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,599
avid camper and hiker by his friends, with enough experience

421
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,519
to take day hikes and short trips, but not regarded

422
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:51,480
by family or park officials as a deeply seasoned wilderness expert.

423
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:56,680
Appalachian trail hikers who spoke with his family believed he

424
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,240
could survive for some time with the gear he had

425
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,960
at least theory, and I'll cover all the gear he bought.

426
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,759
He easily should have been able to survive the conditions

427
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,480
he would have experienced so experiencing that location. So he

428
00:23:09,559 --> 00:23:13,240
did appear to have researched the Smokies before this trip.

429
00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:16,160
He purchased maps in a book about the Smokies and

430
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:21,119
its trails shortly beforehand, but there is no real clear

431
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,279
evidence he had a deep prior on the ground experience

432
00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:29,319
at Newfound Gap. So jumping right into timeline, we'll start

433
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,359
on Wednesday, March fourteenth of twenty twelve.

434
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,839
Speaker 2: So essentially, Derek was.

435
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 3: Just living his normal life in Louisville, Tennessee, and at

436
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,440
this time, for whatever reason, he ended up going on

437
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,839
a spending binge for hiking gear, and he bought over

438
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,880
one thousand dollars worth of camping in survival supplies from

439
00:23:52,039 --> 00:23:56,000
a Bass Pro shop, Knife Works, and Coleman's. I'll say

440
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,440
that may sound like a lot of money, but for

441
00:23:58,559 --> 00:23:59,799
hiking gear, like if.

442
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:01,319
Speaker 1: You're in the right stuff, that could be like a

443
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,759
tent in a sleeping bag. Yeah, backpacks could be a

444
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:06,799
few hundred dollars. I remember buying an ultra light sleeping

445
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,920
bag in that was super expensive. And yeah, I think

446
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,720
my really nice light cold bag that it took to

447
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:17,759
Africa was like five hundred dollars. Yeah, so hiking gear

448
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:19,759
can add up quickly. Nice pair of boots will run

449
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,400
you a few hundred bucks. I mean it adds up fast.

450
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:25,319
But he did buy a lot of gears. So some

451
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,319
of the gear included maps of the Smokies, a tent,

452
00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:34,799
sleeping bag, a pack, axe, a knife sharpener, a compass, thermometer,

453
00:24:34,839 --> 00:24:37,720
one hundred feet of black parachute, cord head lamp, pocket knife,

454
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,720
granola bars, an iPod pouch, a waterproof watch, and a

455
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:46,680
bear grilled survival tool pack containing a multitool, small flashlight,

456
00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:50,920
and fire starter. So he's already got more gear than

457
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,200
most of the people that have gone missing that we've covered,

458
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:57,160
And with all that gear and the clothing he had,

459
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,039
he should have been able to survive a few nights

460
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,079
in this environment. He also had searched the Great Smoking

461
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,440
Mountains on his computer and booked a room at a

462
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:08,720
hotel in Cherokee, North Carolina, which is a gateway town

463
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,160
to the park, roughly two hours southeast of his home,

464
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,079
and he is believed to have stayed at the at

465
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,279
A Motel six on the night of March fourteenth. It's

466
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,799
now Thursday, March fifteenth of twenty twelve, so Derek is

467
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,400
believed to have stayed overnight at the a Smokemont campground

468
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,079
inside Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and that same day

469
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,640
he failed to show up for his shift at Peninsula Hospital.

470
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,440
Calls to his cell phone went unanswered. His roommate, Ryan Molden,

471
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:42,240
had noticed Derek's alarm going off continuously that morning and

472
00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:45,119
initially assumed he had just left early for work and

473
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,240
forgotten to turn it off. And I think I forgot

474
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,920
to tell everyone how old he was. He's twenty four.

475
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,599
So that was like in the back of your head,

476
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,200
that's why you keep thinking, yeah, you're missing something.

477
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so twenty four years old.

478
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,519
Speaker 3: So, like I said, his roommate heard his alarm going off,

479
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:04,599
wondered what was going on.

480
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: Something's weird.

481
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:10,319
Speaker 3: When a mutual friend alerted Ryan, his roommate, that Derek

482
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,720
had never arrived at work, concern quickly set in, so

483
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,559
Ryan contacted Derek's parents in Virginia, and obviously they were alarmed.

484
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:25,039
They drove to his their son's home in Knoxville. Slash Louisville, Tennessee.

485
00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:27,799
To begin piecing together what might have happened to him,

486
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,920
they examined his computer. They discovered searches for the Great

487
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,519
Smoky Mountains hotel reservations in Cherokee, and the trail of

488
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,839
survival gear purchases. So Friday March sixteenth, twenty twelve, Derek

489
00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:46,240
checked into the Microtel Inn and Switees in Cherokee, North Carolina.

490
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,000
A Bible and some alcohol were later found among his

491
00:26:50,079 --> 00:26:52,839
belongings at the hotel. His father would go on later

492
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:56,559
to note that drinking was not typical for Derek, and

493
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,559
he suspected his son might have been struggling with depression

494
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:04,000
as he tried to navigate adulthood. So that is a

495
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:06,160
theme that kind of comes up in this case.

496
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: That outwardly Derek appeared to be pretty normal and having

497
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,240
a good time, but that he was kind of suffering

498
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,519
in silence at this point with some type of depression. Yeah,

499
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:20,279
and obviously we know that his grandfather had recently died,

500
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:22,079
so that might have played something into it.

501
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: And well, I wonder if the Bible I found was

502
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,160
just the Bible at.

503
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: The hotel, especially in the South, like every hotel has

504
00:27:28,759 --> 00:27:31,480
a Bible in there. Although the drinking thing, if he

505
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:33,839
wasn't normally drinking and he's by himself, then that could

506
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:34,759
be yeah.

507
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 3: And it's not unusual for young adults once they're out

508
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,160
in the wild to kind of from time to time

509
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,519
suffer from a little depression because the world is not

510
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,119
a nice place sometimes. Yep, it can get you down. Absolutely,

511
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,559
so I did mention this earlier. The timing of his

512
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,640
disappearance coincided closely with the first anniversary of the death

513
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,480
of his grandfather, who he was very very close with,

514
00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,640
so probably played some kind of role in this, would

515
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,240
be my guess. Saturday, March seventeenth to twenty twelve, at

516
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:11,720
approximately four am in the morning, hotel surveillance cameras captured

517
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:16,160
Derek leaving the Microtel in in Cherokee. He was alone

518
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:18,319
and he was carrying what appeared to be a day pack.

519
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,799
He was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track

520
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:24,519
pants like I mentioned, white striped down each side of

521
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:29,200
the leg, and dark colored sneakers, and he may have

522
00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:32,279
also been carrying some rain gear that they couldn't really

523
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,200
tell with the video. By eight thirty am that morning,

524
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:38,920
his white Ford escape was found in the lower lot

525
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,200
at Newfound Gap, which Joe had mentioned earlier, is at

526
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,000
about five thy forty eight feet and it's mountain pass

527
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,440
where the main road through the park acrosses the Appalachian

528
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,519
Trail straddling the Tennessee North Carolina state line. And the

529
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:57,640
family was they were actually the people that discovered his vehicle,

530
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,599
so it looks like after arriving at Microtelt too late

531
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,279
to find Eric, they were driving back towards Tennessee when

532
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,279
they spotted his car in the parking lot and immediately

533
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:12,599
contacted park rangers. Inside the vehicle, searchers found his wallet, cash,

534
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,240
credit cards, and car key. They also found many of

535
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:19,559
the survival supplies he had recently purchased, including critically the

536
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:23,480
tent and sleeping bag, and they also found kind of

537
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,480
this strange handwritten note that some sources say it simply

538
00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:31,440
said don't follow me, while some other sources in the

539
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,720
news said don't try to follow me. So kind of

540
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:37,599
odd he would leave his car keys and that note

541
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,960
with his stuff with his stuff, so park officials expressed

542
00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:46,200
uncertainty about whether Derek had actually written the note, despite

543
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,440
it being a despite it being a sunny Saturday, with

544
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:53,079
heavy visitor traffic at one of the park's most popular overlooks.

545
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:57,359
Not a single person reported having seen Derek in the

546
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,599
park when they were interviewed by law enforcement, so that's

547
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:07,279
also very interesting. It's now March seventeenth to the twenty third.

548
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,079
Park rangers launched an immediate search and rescue operation radiating

549
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:17,200
outward from the Newfound Gap. Over the several days, these

550
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:21,880
searchers hiked a lot of miles, so some estimates of

551
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,720
upwards of fifty five to seventy miles of trail were

552
00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:28,359
searched in just the first few days, including sections of

553
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:33,039
the Appalachian Trail and connecting side trails. They had multiple

554
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:36,559
scent tracking dog teams in the area. They were giving

555
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:40,440
samples of Derek's clothing to lock onto ascent. Helicopter sweeps

556
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,799
were conducted over three separate days, with additional nighttime helicopter operations.

557
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,240
The North Carolina and Tennessee Highway Patrols provided helicopter services

558
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,920
at no cost to the Park Service, so that was nice.

559
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,720
So they really have, I mean, within a few days

560
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,519
they have a massive search operation going on.

561
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:03,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's thick. That is thick. What time of year

562
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,480
is that picture?

563
00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: Uh, November, okay, twenty twenty two, so probably not as

564
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,160
thick even as it would be in may or, I

565
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:19,039
guess March, yeah, maybe, but yeah, it's some thick and

566
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:19,960
pretty steep.

567
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's some it's yeah. You go down there,

568
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:28,839
no one's finding you. Just slow October twenty one. Yeah,

569
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,480
slow searching. Yeah, holy cow. So yeah.

570
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:37,119
Speaker 3: Searchers were instructed to check all natural and mad made shelters.

571
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,160
They spoke with everyone they encountered, and they were keeping

572
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:45,400
their eyes peeled for camel crush cigarette butts.

573
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:46,799
Speaker 2: So that was so he was.

574
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:49,559
Speaker 3: He smoked cigarettes, and that would have been the brand

575
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,880
he smoked. And despite the warm, unseasonable weather that should

576
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,880
have improved his chances of survival. The massive effort turned

577
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,480
up nothing. Not a single footprint, discarded item a cigarette

578
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,359
butt could be conclusively linked to Derek. It's now Thursday,

579
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:08,240
March twenty second of twenty twelve. By the sixth day,

580
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:12,559
the search was at a critical juncture. They had approximately

581
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:18,079
sixty searchers split into fourteen teams for another push. Supervisory

582
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:22,319
park ranger Joe Pons said, let's try to make another

583
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:25,599
hard push for this guy today. The search had now

584
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:30,279
moved significantly off trail. Rangers looked for places where it

585
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,559
would be appealing to get off trail and hiked those

586
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,799
routes until the terrain came impassable, making every area surveyed

587
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,400
on GIS paced maps. During one sweep, a helicopter spotted

588
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,519
a tarp near Deep Creek and a team was quickly dispatched,

589
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:47,519
but the equipment appeared to have been in place for

590
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:50,759
a long time and had no connection to Derek. Bob Miller,

591
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,079
a park spokesman, noted the most disturbing aspect of the case.

592
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,759
He said, there was a ton of people in the

593
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,359
park that day. It was a nice day. Mean he

594
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,319
got off trail right away, maybe so. About forty five

595
00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:08,720
National Park Service employees and roughly fifteen civilian volunteers participated

596
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:12,559
in the search effort. Personnel from Blue Ridge Parkway, Cherokee

597
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:16,920
Tribal Ems, and search and rescue dog associations from North

598
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,640
in South Carolina also assisted. It's now Friday, March twenty

599
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,680
third of twenty twelve. After a full week of heavy

600
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,119
searching with nothing found beyond the vehicle, park officials made

601
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,920
the difficult decision to scale back the operation. Park spokeswoman

602
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:38,319
Molly Schroer acknowledged the frustration. She was quoted without clues,

603
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,559
you are just kind of searching in the woods. Park

604
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,759
Superintendent dale A. Ditmissen added, it's very disheartening for the

605
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:49,799
searchers to work so hard for so long to find

606
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,839
a missing individual without success. I can't imagine the effort

607
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,200
that's expended and then they turn up empty handed. Though

608
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,839
they found the car, yeah, and a lot of his stuff,

609
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,359
so that's more than some cases.

610
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,319
Speaker 1: And I do want to note that for people who

611
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,880
are watching, this is a map Mike create it that

612
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,039
will start coming along with all these episodes. So it

613
00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:13,239
has also I'm following along on the map and it

614
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,599
kind of shows the different areas where this stuff is happening.

615
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can click on if you x out

616
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,679
of that, you can click on the different points of

617
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,719
interest and they will pop up with information.

618
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:29,519
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been following along with you real time. There

619
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:29,880
you go.

620
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: I just got to make it now to move when

621
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,800
I talk, yes, and then you don't need me.

622
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:35,679
Speaker 2: Then I don't need you.

623
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, this is exactly what I've been working towards. So,

624
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,719
like I said, the search is wrapping up. They really

625
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,199
haven't found anything other than the vehicle. So it's weekend

626
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,000
March twenty fourth to twenty fifth of twenty twelve. So

627
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,280
after the official search was skilled back, Derek's family, along

628
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,440
with more than twenty five civilian volunteers, continued searching for

629
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,159
two additional days. His parents set up a blue minivan

630
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:12,280
decorated with fine Derek signs photos of their son and

631
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,559
his Teddy Bear sporting a plaid and red bow tie

632
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:20,320
at the Newfound Gap overlook. They pressed flyers into the

633
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,519
hands of every single person they found. They pleaded with

634
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:26,960
hikers heading out on the trails to keep an eye out.

635
00:35:27,519 --> 00:35:29,800
The father was quoted as saying, we tried to talk

636
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,199
with every hiker. Some were coming from the trailheads. They

637
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,800
were sitting there looking for him, and they would see

638
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,639
hikers coming out of the woods and they would do

639
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:40,519
like a double tick like his said Derek, and unfortunately

640
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:42,280
none of them were.

641
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: They set up a Facebook page titled to Find Derek

642
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:48,840
Luking and it was kind of the coordinate awareness efforts,

643
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:52,440
and one of the family members wrote on the page,

644
00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:54,800
we will never stop looking for Derek, although we still

645
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,960
think he is in the park. An off trail there

646
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,280
is possibility that he is out in the world somewhere,

647
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,320
So we will put the word out in the world

648
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,800
as much as we can while still making sure people

649
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,320
know who he is in the Smoky Mountains. Now, real

650
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,480
crazy thing. So there was a very weird coincidence that

651
00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:21,480
happened during the search for Derek. So just one day

652
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,519
after the search for Derek, a second man vanished in

653
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:28,480
the same area of the park. Michael Giovanni a Cochini.

654
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,159
He was twenty three from Nashville, Tennessee, and he was

655
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,800
last seen by friends at the Walmart in a nearby

656
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,559
town on March eighteenth. His car was noticed by rangers

657
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:42,679
at a parking area near the park visitor center outside

658
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,840
Gatlinburg that same day, and this guy was not known

659
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,480
to be a hiker and had no gear for hiking

660
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:54,400
or overnight camping. When his car remained in the same

661
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,800
spot two days later, rangers launched a second simultaneous search,

662
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,400
but obviously both searches were eventually called off without resolution.

663
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:08,480
Now fast forward to August seventeenth of twenty twelve, a

664
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:11,199
park employee stumbled upon a backpack in the woods that

665
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,519
was confirmed to belong to Michael. In the subsequent search

666
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,440
rangers located clothing consistent with what he was last seen wearing,

667
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,719
along with his cell phone. Then, on August twentieth, searchers

668
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,960
discovered skull fragments just three tenths of a mile from

669
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,119
where his car had been found, and the reins were

670
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:35,159
eventually positively identified as Michael's. Very interesting. Another gentleman went missing,

671
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:36,880
like right in the same area.

672
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: They seemed to wrap that one up relatively quickly too.

673
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean they found somehow found his remains quickly,

674
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,519
but sadly. Through this time, there were no new developments

675
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:51,320
made in Derek's case, so twenty thirteen case still open.

676
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:55,920
By June of twenty thirteen, Park spokeswoman Molly Shore confirmed

677
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,039
that his case remained open and active. She was quoted like,

678
00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:02,320
what the Derek Luke case. They've never located him and

679
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,400
it is still considered an open case. She said, if

680
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,199
a lead comes up, we will look into it.

681
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: And I searched for the Facebook page and it doesn't

682
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,440
seem to exist anymore. I saw a couple individual posts

683
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,880
that weren't lolated, but I don't think the page is live,

684
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,119
so I can't get anything from there.

685
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought I was on it.

686
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,639
Speaker 1: I searched it exactly how it was labeled. So okay,

687
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:24,960
I'll keep digging. I'll keep taking.

688
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:29,039
Speaker 3: Twenty fifteen and beyond. So by twenty fifteen, which we're

689
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,519
now approaching, the third anniversary of Derek's disappearance, his case

690
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:36,039
remain listed in the National Missing an Unidentified Person system

691
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:40,159
known as name US. And during this time, the Facebook

692
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:44,320
page that Joe is trying to find remained active trying

693
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,599
to spread the word. And I may have read that

694
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:50,719
information from a news article now that I'm thinking now

695
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,280
that I think.

696
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: About it, that was just on Facebook.

697
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: No, that it referenced their Facebook page, So NETT page

698
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,119
would be over ten years old now.

699
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:02,039
Speaker 1: Something I'm wondering if somebody actually closed it, because sometimes

700
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:04,079
people just let it kind of hang out there.

701
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'll keep looking, Okay.

702
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: Appalachian Trail through hikers who had spoken with the family

703
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,440
over the years expressed the view that given the supplies

704
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,920
Derek likely had on him the survival a pack axe,

705
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,880
parachute cord, firestarter, compass, headlamp, pocket knife, and granola bars,

706
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,880
that he could have theoretically survived in the woods for

707
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,800
an extended period. It's now twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, we're

708
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,280
getting more updates the Charlie Project, which is a great

709
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,719
website to look up missing person cases. They updated their

710
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,760
case on Derek with some photographs and updated clothing and

711
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,079
jewelry descriptions. By twenty eighteen, it's been six years now

712
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:50,679
since he went missing. His family still searching for answers

713
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,960
and hoping to find out what happened to him, but

714
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:56,320
nothing has come of it, and from twenty nineteen to

715
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:03,079
the present day, the National Park Service Investigative Services Branch

716
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:07,760
continues to list Derek on its official cold case page,

717
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,719
and his direction of travel from Newfound Gap to this

718
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,880
day remains unknown. As of May twenty sixth, the month

719
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,159
we're recording this, no it remains clothing, gear, or any

720
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:21,159
physical trace of Derek has ever been recovered from the

721
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:25,000
Smokies or anywhere else, and his case remains open and unsolved.

722
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,320
So that's why we're asking everyone listening. If you happen

723
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,760
to know any information on this case, you can call

724
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,760
the National Park Service number at eight two eight four

725
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,239
nine seven nine four zero. It's never too late to

726
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,039
send in a tip. Maybe you were hiking and came

727
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:47,960
across a gear that's at the time just seemed like

728
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:50,559
somebody dropped something. But now that you heard this episode,

729
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:52,880
you're thinking, you know what, that looks like something he

730
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,440
might have carried. So even a tip like that, if

731
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,320
you remember where you were and when it was, you

732
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,000
can put that hip in there. And to this day,

733
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:04,480
if its case is open, they'll go out there and search.

734
00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:09,960
You know, maybe they'd find his remains. Who knows. Okay, theories,

735
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:13,760
got four of them here. I'll read him out and

736
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,360
then I want to hear what you think. Okay, So

737
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,960
theory number one probably the most likely wilderness misadventure.

738
00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:22,639
Speaker 2: That's like every one of these cases.

739
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:27,159
Speaker 3: So Derek enters the Smokey's intending to test survival skills

740
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:29,480
or spend time off grid. He's been watching a lot

741
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,880
of Bear Girls. He's got a Bear Girls survival kit,

742
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:36,239
he's been watching survival shows. He's probably like, I'm gonna

743
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,000
go try this out, and but he becomes lost, injured,

744
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:44,679
and succumbs to the train. Why this fits well, He

745
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,280
bought extensive survival gear and studied the park beforehand. He

746
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,000
was a fan of survival shows like The Man Versus

747
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:56,239
Wild Show. The terrain around Newfound Gap is like it's brutal.

748
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,639
Joe described it steep drop offs, dense vegetation, hard to

749
00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:03,960
search ranges. Rangers even suggested he may have gotten in

750
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,440
over his head when he went out there. Why it

751
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:11,000
doesn't fit if he's really into survival and everything. He

752
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:14,239
left critical gear like tents, a tent and sleeping bag

753
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,119
in his car, so that's gear you would take with you.

754
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:21,519
You wouldn't leave that behind. And there was no trace

755
00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:25,039
ever found despite a massive search. So even off trail

756
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:28,239
cases usually produced something. Gear remains are central, and we

757
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,199
mentioned another guy went missing in March and they found

758
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:39,000
his remains by August, so that is unusual. Second theory,

759
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:42,480
this is always tough one to talk about, but suicide

760
00:42:42,559 --> 00:42:46,800
or mental health crisis. This one is basically you can

761
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,159
probably guess that he intentionally went into the park to

762
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,760
end his own life. Now we don't throw this theory

763
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,920
around lightly, but there's a few things in this case

764
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:01,320
that would lend to maybe something was going on with

765
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,719
Derek that people weren't aware of, that he was kind

766
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,639
of suffering, like I said in silence. So the first

767
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:08,679
big one is the note that was left in the car.

768
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:11,960
Now we don't know who wrote that note because he

769
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:14,199
left his keys in the car, so anyone could have

770
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:17,400
gotten in his car. It'd be kind of a weird thing,

771
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,119
that random being a break in their car and say

772
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,599
don't follow me, and then leave wallet and cash and

773
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,280
everything behind me. So, but we don't know who, but

774
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,119
he left a note that says don't follow me, which

775
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,880
strongly suggests intent to disappear. The timing of his disappearance

776
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,000
aligns with the anniversary of his grandfather's death. He was

777
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:37,119
very close with him.

778
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,079
Speaker 1: I imagine his grandfather was probably like a father figure

779
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:44,480
to him. Yeah, and his passing probably devastated him. I

780
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,039
know from personal life experience.

781
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:49,079
Speaker 3: You two, Joe, probably at twenty four, you haven't experienced

782
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:50,519
a lot of death in the family yet.

783
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a new type of pain.

784
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a time of your life where some

785
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,199
of your older relatives are starting to pass away, and

786
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,440
up until that point everyone alive memory as a kid,

787
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:05,559
like all your relatives are alive, and like family gatherings,

788
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:08,440
like all the grandparents, they're a great uncle's aunts.

789
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: And you get older and you got to start dealing

790
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,239
with start dwindling.

791
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone handles that differently. And if he was really close.

792
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,840
It probably hit him hard. Yeah, reports of possible depression

793
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,199
and unusual behavior. So the Bible alcohol though, like Joe said,

794
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,360
the Bible in a southern hotel.

795
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: Now they're common all the time.

796
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but alcohol, if he's not a big drinker, that

797
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:31,760
is a little out of the ordinary.

798
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 2: And leaving behind.

799
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 3: While his wallet, money, and gear does fit someone planning

800
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,880
to not return, but he didn't leave any kind of

801
00:44:42,159 --> 00:44:44,440
notes like other than to don't follow me. He didn't

802
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,440
leave like a letter to someone or why this doesn't

803
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,280
fit No body or evidence was ever found the level,

804
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:54,320
so the level of preparation, all the gear, purchases, planning

805
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,400
feels pretty excessive. If your goal was to go out

806
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,519
there and not come back. Yeah, how would you buy

807
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:03,000
all that stuff, read all those books.

808
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: And then leave in the car? Yeah, So that doesn't

809
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:05,960
make sense.

810
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:14,039
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, most suicides in national parks are eventually located,

811
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,280
especially after larger search and rescue operations, so the fact

812
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,639
that nothing was ever found is a little odd. A

813
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:28,119
third theory voluntary disappearance, so he basically staged his own disappearance.

814
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,079
This basically is he staged it at Newfound Gap to

815
00:45:31,159 --> 00:45:33,400
make it look like he vanished into the wilderness, but

816
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:37,119
actually left the starting life. The note in a banded

817
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,119
vehicle could be intentional misdirection, early morning departure and secretive

818
00:45:41,119 --> 00:45:45,440
planning behavior. Cash purchases leave gaps in a paper trail,

819
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,559
and zero evidence in the park could mean he never

820
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,199
went deep into it. Now, why this doesn't work? He

821
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:55,679
left behind his wallet, cash and credit cards, car keys.

822
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,559
Not having all that stuff makes starting a new life

823
00:45:58,599 --> 00:46:03,320
a little harder. Yeah, no confirmed sightings, financial activity, or

824
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,800
identity use since twenty twelve.

825
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:07,199
Speaker 2: And I'll just.

826
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:11,159
Speaker 1: Say, in modern times, especially twenty twenty six, it's pretty

827
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,639
darn hard to go anywhere and not be filmed or.

828
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: Photographed or yeah, absolutely so.

829
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,159
Speaker 3: You would imagine at some point he would thought maybe

830
00:46:20,199 --> 00:46:23,280
not turn up, turn up maybe yeah, who knows. In

831
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,480
one of my points here was disappearing completely in the

832
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,119
modern area is very hard to pull off long term.

833
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,039
You'd probably do it for a couple of years, but

834
00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:34,800
at some point, I mean, you'd have to get a job,

835
00:46:35,159 --> 00:46:38,239
make money, yeah, get an apartment, a lot of things.

836
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,679
You're gonna have to share your identity with it.

837
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you're somehow connected to some CD underground where Yeah,

838
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,519
fake documents and stuff.

839
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the least supported theory is foul play. So

840
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,599
this goes Derek encountered another person who caused his disappearance,

841
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:58,199
either before or after reaching the park. Why it could

842
00:46:58,199 --> 00:47:02,039
work again, lack of evvidence can sometimes point to a

843
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:07,960
third party involvement, and the coincidence of another disappearance in

844
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,880
the same area at the same time does raise a

845
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,679
few suspicions something weird was going on. But why this

846
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,079
doesn't fit is no signs of a struggle at the

847
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:21,880
vehicle or a hotel, no witnesses, suspects, or investigative leads

848
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,400
pointing to another person. And like I mentioned earlier in

849
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,079
the timeline, this was a sunny day, very that overlook

850
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:31,880
is very populated, busy place, and people don't even remember

851
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,960
seeing him there, so that's a little strange. And the

852
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:40,960
timeline strongly suggests he traveled alone and voluntarily entered the area.

853
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 1: So I don't know, what do you think? This one's

854
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,280
so weird. It is a little weird. I feel like

855
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,239
you can be three of them. I feel like, unfortunately

856
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,679
suicide is one of them potential. I feel like it

857
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,320
could be he was testing his skill and didn't make it, Yeah,

858
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,519
and they just haven't found him because it's fair very thick,

859
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,280
and there's a part of me that thinks it could

860
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,920
be connected to the same other guy who went missing. Okay,

861
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,679
like did those two coincidentally be in the same the

862
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,639
wrong place at the wrong time. Interesting, And that's like

863
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:15,599
your Hollywood theory, it kind of is, But I mean

864
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:20,760
it's I mean, coincidences can happen, but not it's not

865
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:23,159
like an I don't know. That just seems like two

866
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,639
very coincidental things that are very similar happening at around

867
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,599
the very same time. So I don't know, it's a

868
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,320
matter of like when they reported the other guy missing, well,

869
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,440
he was at the store. So have you lined up,

870
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:38,880
like how much time has passed from when Derek was

871
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,159
missing to the other guy, So.

872
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:45,599
Speaker 3: The other guy went missing one second?

873
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: Here, I have the map pulled up. I can go here.

874
00:48:49,079 --> 00:48:52,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if I put that in the map,

875
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:54,920
March seventh, No, it's in there. I saw March seventeenth,

876
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,679
Derek left. Here you go March eighteenth, So it's like

877
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:03,440
the last scene the next day after Derek was seen leaving,

878
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,039
So it could have theoretically gone missing on the same day. Yeah,

879
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:10,840
like actually so yeah, like they're going to the same

880
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,880
area on potentially the same day and one one was found.

881
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:18,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the note is weird.

882
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, the note is weird in your car keys, and

883
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:25,000
while in the car, it's like a contradiction. He left,

884
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,440
he went and spent all that money on hiking gear,

885
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,679
was like a big nut about survival, and then leaves

886
00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:31,480
half of it in his car.

887
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: What if Okay, here's my Hollywood. Okay, let's say it's

888
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:40,000
a killer and he is following Derek and that guy

889
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:42,320
leaves the note in there, like like have they did

890
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,960
an analysis on it? Is it Derek's handwriting on the

891
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,920
note and the guy who's going to attack him throws

892
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,440
it in there or something or after maybe he saw.

893
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,639
Speaker 2: That that's his car. Yeah, and oh how about this? Okay,

894
00:49:56,639 --> 00:50:00,599
how about this? Okay, what if this? This is the Hollywood.

895
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:04,079
Speaker 1: The killer is on the trail, murders Derek and the

896
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:10,719
other guy okay, takes Derek's stuff, has his keys, can

897
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,800
go to the parking lot and click the button, find

898
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,199
out which card is, throw all the stuff in there

899
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:16,920
and leave a note and make it look like that. Okay,

900
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,599
maybe he was interacting with addiction. Yes, exactly interesting. That's

901
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:22,239
this is why it's Hollywood. I mean, you have to

902
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,079
be very fairly smart and to do something like that.

903
00:50:26,119 --> 00:50:29,559
But I don't know that it's that one's the Hollywood one.

904
00:50:29,679 --> 00:50:33,119
I think more likely it's he chose to go out

905
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:37,199
there and not come back, or he was attempting to

906
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,440
survive on purpose, so he said, hey, put the note like, hey,

907
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:41,000
don't look for me.

908
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:42,199
Speaker 2: I'm doing this on purpose.

909
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,639
Speaker 1: Like that could have been him leaving the note saying

910
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:46,480
I'm going out there to do a survival thing like

911
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:49,280
don't look for me, I'll be fine. Okay, that seems

912
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,280
you know, Okham's razor.

913
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: That one's most likely.

914
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,039
Speaker 1: But other than that, I think it's very coincidental that

915
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,760
two people potentially on the same day went missing and

916
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,880
one that turned up they found his remains. Yeah, and

917
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:03,280
they just have it on the other one yet.

918
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think my most likely theory and

919
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,480
I have a theory on why the tent and sleeping

920
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:14,119
bag were in the car. So he gets to that

921
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:19,159
campground area early in the morning, he probably doesn't want it.

922
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:21,679
Speaker 2: Maybe it's not even light and dark.

923
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,079
Speaker 3: It's still dark out, so he's like, you know, what,

924
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,960
I'm going to go on a day hike this morning

925
00:51:29,519 --> 00:51:32,119
and just hike around a bit. I'll come back to

926
00:51:32,199 --> 00:51:35,840
my car, set my camp up at the campground when

927
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,639
it's light out. That would make sense. Then why he

928
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,239
left the tent and sleeping bag in the car. If

929
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,239
you're planning to just hike for a few hours and

930
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,440
then come back to a campground and set up camp,

931
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:48,400
why would you hike with your tent and sleeping bag

932
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,480
in your backpack? So like, yeah, I'm picturing he probably

933
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:58,280
was planning to come back to his car at some

934
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,960
point the set up camp, and maybe he just accidentally

935
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,079
forgot his keys in the car.

936
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:02,679
Speaker 2: I've done that.

937
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 3: I mean, that's not People forget their car keys in

938
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:07,239
their car all the time.

939
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:07,639
Speaker 2: Yep.

940
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 3: I once went to the grocery store after work and

941
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,440
forgot to turn my car off, got out, went in

942
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,280
and shop for twenty minutes, came back out, got in.

943
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's weird. It's on. I'm like, oh,

944
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,039
I left it on while I was in the store.

945
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:29,800
You're in the thick of it with children right now.

946
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have like fog brand, So leaving your keys

947
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,639
in the car, I can totally buy that, and I

948
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:40,920
think having when I was younger, I used to watch

949
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,400
the shows it's on History Channel called Alone, where they

950
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,000
would drop people off in the wilderness and whoever survived

951
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,719
the longest win like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Yeah,

952
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,039
and that would get me like jazzed up to go hiking. Yeah,

953
00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:57,880
so like you might want to go try something like yeah. Yeah,

954
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,559
So I can picture young guy.

955
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 3: He's in the hiking he's been watching all these bear

956
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,719
Girls shows and the guy in those shows it's cool,

957
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:05,679
he's doing cool.

958
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: He was talking like this is so intense and he's

959
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:11,239
doing crazy stuff. And at times like these, when the

960
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,239
stone waters, sometimes you have to drink your own piss. Yes,

961
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:21,239
So I can picture that Derek probably after months or

962
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,960
years of watching these shows, he finally gets to the

963
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,239
Smokey's he's out on the trail. He's probably a little

964
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,639
overconfident in his abilities because he's been watching so many

965
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:37,320
of those shows. Sure, and something happened where he either

966
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,760
went off trail and got injured or whatever like you said,

967
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,599
and he fell, or he's in an area that is

968
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:46,679
hard to search, and that that would be why his

969
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,639
tent and sleeping bag were still in the car because

970
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:50,800
he was planning to go back maybe to get that

971
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:53,960
and then set up camp, but he never did. Does

972
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:56,480
still doesn't explain the note. That's weird.

973
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,199
Speaker 2: Yep. So that's why.

974
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it could explain the note. It's don't hate

975
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,440
I left all my stuff in here, don't look for me.

976
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:03,079
Speaker 2: I'm fine.

977
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you think he would write out an explanation.

978
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,559
I mean instead of being like a cryptic.

979
00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: That's two guys have done a show on missing people

980
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,880
for nine years, would do like write out a detailed

981
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,679
note like, hey, I'm okay, I will be back.

982
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:18,599
Speaker 2: I'm practicing my survival skills.

983
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 3: But out here a young guy who's just going out

984
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,960
hiking probably like he don't follow me. Okay, I don't know. Yeah,

985
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,960
you're right, could be just mixed communications. He in his

986
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,320
head he thought that note would be more x you know,

987
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:35,800
explanatory to whoever found it. Yeah, when in the end

988
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,719
it really just opened a whole can of worms. Yeah,

989
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,360
I guess twenty four year old and he would leave

990
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,119
a dumb note too.

991
00:54:41,199 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that doesn't I would say.

992
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: I think if I was given percentage weights to the theories,

993
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,519
I would say overconfidence from watching beer Girls and then

994
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:56,320
getting lost. Probably seventy eighty percent. Okay, I would say

995
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,960
foul play is like one percent. I don't think it

996
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,400
was foul play. I think it's like two percent because

997
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,239
the other guy, the other guy. Yeah, it doubles. I

998
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:14,000
think suicide ten percent, just because of the note and

999
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:17,440
the grandfather passing away and the family maybe suggesting he

1000
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:20,639
might have been suffering from depression. But at the same time,

1001
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:22,760
I have a hard time with that theory, just because

1002
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,800
he went and bought all that stuff and he was

1003
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,960
planning it, and he was researching it, and he like

1004
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:31,760
really loved these survival shows. That to me doesn't seem

1005
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,880
like a guy who's the other guy who went missing,

1006
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:39,000
who went out there with nothing that now I don't

1007
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,119
know anything about him, so this but that if someone

1008
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:44,719
said suicide to me, would make more sense.

1009
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,559
Speaker 1: You didn't have any gear, walked out there. He just

1010
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:49,199
went out there, Yeah, and didn't recently purchase a time. Yeah,

1011
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,760
this guy was like ready to go, like ready to

1012
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,880
survive out in the wilderness. So it wouldn't make sense

1013
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,119
to me then then he would go and do that.

1014
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,800
So totally, but I still can't rule it out just

1015
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,599
because of all the stuff the family said, so yes,

1016
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,280
and then all the other theories, the rest of the percentages, yeah,

1017
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,880
zero point five percent, whatever, whenever I have left whatever,

1018
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,159
Eagles one hundred and three.

1019
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,679
Speaker 3: Though I do like your Hollywood theory. I feel like

1020
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,920
there is there's more than a zero percent chance something

1021
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:16,679
weird happened.

1022
00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1023
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:21,599
Speaker 1: I don't think it's high percent, but something could have

1024
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,199
that is just a little too coincidental. It's same time,

1025
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,880
same age kind of guy, Like, I'm not a coincidence guy.

1026
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:29,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1027
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do happen. But people also win the lottery.

1028
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,320
You know who doesn't most people? Yeah, so somebody has

1029
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:36,679
to win it.

1030
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, another another baffling case, another bathly case. As usual.

1031
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,159
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think, and thanks again for

1032
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,920
tuning into our show. We appreciate you all for listening

1033
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,480
and sharing locations and known with your friends and family.

1034
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,280
Be sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,

1035
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,199
and YouTube, where you can find the videos of each episode. Also,

1036
00:56:55,639 --> 00:56:58,480
if you'd like to support the show monetarily, please visit

1037
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:02,440
our website or Facebook store to buy some sweet Sweet swag. Additionally,

1038
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:06,000
you can subscribe to our patron account, YouTube and Apple

1039
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:09,239
where we'll have access to special events additional shows for

1040
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,840
paid customers only. Lastly, when enjoying the beauty of nature,

1041
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,480
whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk, always remember

1042
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:18,320
to leave no trace.

1043
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:20,719
Speaker 2: Thanks and we will see you all next time.