WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:09.320 Welcome back. And I want to begin with a couple 2 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:13.560 of statements from people that about this book. The book 3 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.280 is FDR A New Political Life. The author is David Beto, 4 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:21.280 and this first one that's here is from Hillsdale College. 5 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:26.960 It's burton fulsome. He says, the book FDR A New 6 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:29.600 Political Life is the most illuminating one volume history of 7 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:33.320 FDR ever written. American historians have come to recognize that 8 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:36.600 Roosevelt's New Deal did not end the Great Depression, but 9 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:41.280 prolonged it. David Beto carefully explains why so many FDR 10 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.759 programs and power grabs were so counterproductive. To go from 11 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.799 the older FDR histories to David Beto's wonderful new work 12 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.719 is to make a historic leak from the dark ages. Also, 13 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.880 another author, David Michalis, says, when it comes to race 14 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:02.079 and Western influence, FDR's vision of the world order was 15 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:05.120 muddled by delusional phenomenon. He was not a man of 16 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:09.359 empire or genocide, like his wartime allies Churchill and Stalin, 17 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:13.400 but he was a dreadfully old fashioned Victorian quack, an 18 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:17.879 amateur phrenologist who believed that repopulating the Pacific rim with 19 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.439 certain choice crossbreeding would create a better world for all. 20 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.079 David Beto takes us further than his predecessors along the 21 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:31.519 breadcrumb path into Franklin Roosevelt's thick forested interior and again 22 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.040 many wonderful still reviews. And I got to say, even 23 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.920 though I wasn't able to read the entire book, when 24 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:39.200 I read of it really does match with this. I'll 25 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.560 give you one more. This is from Jim Bovart, who 26 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:45.319 we've interviewed on the show many times. He said. Historian 27 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:51.400 David Beato, who previously exposed how President Franklin Roosevelt ravaged 28 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:55.480 americans constitutional rights, is back with a new book, vividly 29 00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:00.359 exposing his personal perfidy from the dawn of Woodrow Wilson 30 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.439 administration to nineteen forty five, the betrayal at Yalta and beyond. 31 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:09.240 With volleys of research, Beto demolishes Roosevelt's reputation as one 32 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.800 of the quote unquote great presidents. And so I look 33 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.039 at FDR like Lincoln. These are presidents who come in 34 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.680 at a time of great societal upheaval and change and war, 35 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:25.120 and they have an active role in redefining our society. 36 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:27.319 I think we're in a time like that right now, 37 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:29.599 This is a guy who ran as a peace candidate 38 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.639 but then turned to war. He was there at the 39 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:36.879 center of the fight between gold and Fiat currency. He 40 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:42.240 was preside over rapid expansion of Lebiatha and federal government 41 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.879 with very creative excuses to override the constitution. He instituted 42 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.199 surveillance and there was a free speech revolt against him. 43 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:54.280 He also weaponized the FCC and we can see, you know, 44 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:56.360 we've talked about what was going on with the FCC. 45 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:01.840 We pointed out that why should broadcast media have its 46 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:05.840 content controlled when they don't control the press. Well you 47 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:08.719 can look to FDR for that. So joining us now 48 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:10.800 is David Beato. Thank you so much for joining us 49 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:12.719 this excellent book here that you have. 50 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.400 Thank you so much. You know, if you get a 51 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.840 thing you were you brought up the I mean, if 52 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:20.879 you don't mind, go ahead on the FCC issue, and 53 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.039 it brought to mind the contrast between FDR and Trump. 54 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:29.719 You know, Trump makes these wild threats about the involving 55 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:33.120 the FCC, He goes public with it. He tries to 56 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:35.639 get Jimmy Kimmel off the air, which really wasn't worth 57 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:40.840 the effort. Frankly, and he succeeds short term. But now 58 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.159 Kimmell is back on the air, so Trump looks silly. 59 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.479 What FDR did is he did it behind the scenes. 60 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.960 He did it carefully. He would never make a public 61 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:54.599 statement like that. He went to the sponsors of For example, 62 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:58.680 there was a leading anti New Deal radio commentator called 63 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.879 named Boke Harder in nineteen thirty eight, one of the 64 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:06.439 top rated commentators in the country on CBS, and so 65 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.759 howd Roosevelt get him off the air? He opening an 66 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:14.800 IRS investigation, an immigration investigation because Carter was from Canada. 67 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.360 And then finally he went to the executives. He went 68 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:25.639 to the sponsors, including Marjorie Merriweather Post Sold at least 69 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.920 she was the original owner of mar A Lago, and 70 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:34.360 she used her influence and Carter was forced off the air, 71 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.240 and by the end of nineteen thirty eight, all anti 72 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:43.680 New Deal commentators on the main networks were off the air. 73 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.519 And despite the fact that most newspapers were hostile to FDR, 74 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.279 he did it all quietly. He did it all behind 75 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:56.399 the scenes with a scalpel where Trump used the blunt 76 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.160 edge of the sword. And maybe many ways we should 77 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.000 behave thankful for that. Yeah, the Trump is like a 78 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.240 bull in a china shop so often and sometimes when 79 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.040 he doesn't need to get his way, he doesn't get 80 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:11.680 his way because he's so I don't know, obvious about it. 81 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.879 Yeah, maybe his real thing is more about getting Americans 82 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.639 divided and fighting each other than it is about the 83 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.759 actual reform. But what FDR did is something that we've 84 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:24.759 seen a pattern of people in government typically doing, and 85 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.399 that is working behind the scenes, quietly sending out messages 86 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.199 to make sure that this group of that group has 87 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.800 shadow banned or canceled. And you can use your own 88 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:37.920 judgment in terms of doing this, because you're a private 89 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.519 corporation and you can do that. But of course he 90 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.959 kind of did that with in terms of telegrams and 91 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.879 things like that before, not the social media side, of course, 92 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.759 but actual physical telegrams. FDR had his involvement with that 93 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:55.279 as well. And they see the early trends of the 94 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:59.000 surveillance state is the technology has changed, but the nature 95 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.519 of men in power hasn't really changed that much. Talk 96 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.439 a little bit about the Black Inquisition and things that 97 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:05.279 were involved in that. 98 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:11.560 Okay, well, the Black Committee was a Senate committee was 99 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:16.680 headed by Senator HUGO. Black, who later ended up on 100 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:22.279 the US Supreme Court despite his clan background. And Black 101 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.160 was an attack dog for the New Deal. He was 102 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.360 really Roosevelt's main ally, I would say in the Congress. 103 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.839 He was to go to guy Well. Roosevelt wanted an 104 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:40.680 investigation of anti New Deal organizations and Black was more 105 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:44.600 than happy to cooperate in this. So Black would call 106 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:49.160 these witnesses and they would, you know, sometimes successfully hold 107 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:53.519 him off. He would bring in leading anti New Deal figures. 108 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.360 And so Black got the bright idea, or someone got 109 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:58.959 the bright idea, Well, why don't I get there? A 110 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:04.279 private telegram telegrams were the emails texts of the time. 111 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:08.040 They were over half of long distance communication. People would 112 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.000 say things and telegrams that they wouldn't say in letters, 113 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.879 but they would say now in an email or a text, 114 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:19.560 and there were thousands of them. They were instantaneous, virtually instantaneous. 115 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:23.800 So Black goes to Western Union and the other telegraph 116 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:29.279 companies and said, I want copies of all telegrams sent 117 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:35.399 to and from members of Congress, and he had other 118 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.480 people as well, for like a six months period. And 119 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.759 Western Union's response was, are you kidding, you know, our 120 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.120 customers would would hate that. And Black goes to the 121 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.319 FCC gets approval, and of course the FDR would have 122 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.000 had a hand in this, although again he didn't really 123 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.120 have to order Black to do anything because Black was 124 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.000 serving the new Deal and got FCC approved. 125 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:02.240 So again it's FCC because. 126 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.199 Telegraph companies were ordered to provide That was one example, 127 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.639 all you know, millions of telegrams. But then they expanded 128 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:16.680 the Black expanded the investigation to include other cities, targeted individuals, 129 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.800 and so forth. So he went in there with his 130 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.839 staffers into Western Union, and they had to keep copies 131 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.959 of the of telegrams, right, that was sort of part 132 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.879 of their requirement, and they got big. 133 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:32.919 That was a government that was a government first went 134 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.360 through them. Sorry, that was a government requirement to keep 135 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:36.919 the copies in the first place. 136 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:40.600 Yes, yeah, well I think the telegraph companies probably maybe 137 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:42.799 would have kept their own copies anyway, I don't know. 138 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:46.480 But they were required to keep copies of all telegrams 139 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.639 and they went through millions. And I couldn't believe this 140 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:52.519 when I saw, but yes, that was true. They went 141 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.000 through about ten thousand a day over a very long period. 142 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:01.519 Of time, and the committee staffers had instructions to don't 143 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.759 look at anything of a personal nature, just to look 144 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.799 at material related to lobbying. What would be lobbying, well, 145 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:14.080 the committee had a specific definition indirect or direct lobbying. 146 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:17.879 Indirect lobbying would be any attempt to influence public opinion. 147 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.639 So our conversation would be an example of that. So 148 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.840 any attempt to influence public opinion would be considered lobbying. 149 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:31.120 So they went through copied selectively, and they would ambush 150 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.679 witnesses because this was all secret. None of the witnesses 151 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.360 knew they were doing this. None of them knew, and 152 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.960 eventually came out because Western Union informed started to inform 153 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.559 people who were being targeted, and one of them sued 154 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.399 very prominent law firm in Chicago. Still there, Silas Strawn 155 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:57.320 was his name, and Strawn was a heavyweight and in 156 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:01.120 one in federal district court. By that time, Black had 157 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.840 done his damage and he said, well, we're done with 158 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:08.639 our investigation. However, this was a very good precedent for 159 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:12.120 the future. Now, of course, Black could use the telegrams 160 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:15.399 that he'd gotten his illegal booty, but he couldn't do 161 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:19.039 any more of this kind of search, nor could official 162 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.120 future congressional committees. 163 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:22.240 Did they use the. 164 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:25.000 Important precedent, but it's not very well known. He as 165 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:26.360 a federal court judge. 166 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.480 Yeah, we usually think about, you know, what's going on 167 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.600 with Faiza and everything. And you know that came after 168 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.279 World War two because with the creation of the CIA 169 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:40.279 and NSA, they started getting information from the phone company, 170 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.639 getting pen information, who did they call, and that type 171 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:48.679 of thing which they could infer a lot from. But 172 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:51.080 actually this predates all of that. Were they using this, 173 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:55.679 as you said, they were questioning people. Did they use 174 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:59.720 this information as a perjury trap for people? Yea asked 175 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:01.480 him a questions of the new The answer. 176 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:05.200 I suspect that that kind of thing went on. I 177 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.559 haven't come across it. I have reason to believe from 178 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:13.480 just reading some of Roosevelt's comments that he was, you know, 179 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.840 this information was shared with him, but I can't prove it, 180 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.600 but I think it was used for all sorts of 181 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:26.120 nefarious reasons. See, historians have kind of looked in the 182 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.879 wrong place. They've looked at people like jag or Hoover, 183 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.240 who again there's a lot of things he did too, 184 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:34.840 But the mass surveillance, this is a better example of 185 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:39.519 mass surveillance, but people even looked at it. In fact, 186 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.919 I hadn't even heard of the Black Committee till about 187 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:45.559 twelve years ago when I was doing research and I 188 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.240 came across to it. I said, what's this thing of 189 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.559 the Black Committee? What's that? Is that describing the nature 190 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.000 of the committee? Yeah, it was a Senate committee. It 191 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.879 was forgotten, not by a lot of conservatives, though conservatives 192 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.200 would be bringing up in the in the nineteen fifties, 193 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.559 and that's part of the reason why McCarthyism came about, 194 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.960 because they were pissed and they thought, well, you guys 195 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.080 are now complaining about civil liberties, what about the Black Committee? 196 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.320 And that's a parallel to today as well, isn't it. 197 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.879 You know, when you're suffering injustice like that, you feel 198 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.399 entitled to propagate it against your enemies again. You know. 199 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.080 So wait, you guys did, so what about that? Let's 200 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.919 do it again? I love the title that you got trials. 201 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:29.840 Probably Trump's going to do sedition trials. That was, yes, right, 202 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.320 that's right, the same thing that Jay six people were 203 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.039 convicted of. Stupid. Yeah, that should have been repealed exactly, 204 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:38.879 or at least severely limited. 205 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.360 I like the way that you've got to hear the 206 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.399 in the in your book, the Black Inquisition, You know, 207 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.080 that really does get your attention as you're looking at it, 208 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.840 just like it was like, oh, okay, you go critics, Yeah, 209 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.000 the Black Inquisition. And then there was a pushback against that. 210 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.360 Part of it was William Randolph Hurst was of course 211 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:59.320 targeted that because I guess I could say, well, anything 212 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.679 that he says is going to be influencing public opinion, obviously, 213 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:05.519 so let's get all of his telegrams. And so he 214 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.000 actually you have a chapter here of the Right and 215 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.720 the Left Free Speech Coalition. So it's a pushback with that. 216 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.320 He joined with the ACLU left as William Randolph Hurst 217 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:17.200 pushing back, tell us little bit about that. 218 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:23.879 Yeah, Well, the Black Committee had gotten a treasure trove 219 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:29.000 of Hearst related telegrams, but they did a very stupid thing. 220 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.639 They did a public subpoena. None of this was subpoena, 221 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.639 by the way, but they did a public subpoena of 222 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:39.639 one and only one telegram that they probably already had. 223 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:44.200 And this telegram was where Hearst was accusing this prominent 224 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:47.519 member of Congress, the committee chair, of being in league 225 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.799 with the communists. It was kind of a hyperbolic telegram, 226 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.720 and I guess what the Black Committee, what Black thought was, 227 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.080 people just see that as so over the top, this 228 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.559 will be good pr for us. But instead what happened 229 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:06.279 is other members of Congress, like you know, a guy 230 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.240 named McCormack who is future Speaker of the House, a 231 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:14.120 guy named Emmanuel Seller. These are New Dealers, they say, 232 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.120 this is uncalled for, this is this is the tactics 233 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:21.679 of Mussolini. So it actually backfired on Roosevelt. Even many 234 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.960 of his own New Deal supporters were against this. And 235 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.840 this is this is very interesting and very discouraging in 236 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:34.759 some ways because during this period you had a lot 237 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:39.039 of civil libertarians who on the left who were willing, 238 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.879 even though they liked Roosevelt, who were willing to push 239 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:47.440 back against him. And that is not as true today. 240 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.559 Maybe that will change now, but it's not what it 241 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.159 certainly hasn't been true today. 242 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.960 Well, today there's so much more partisan in tribal and 243 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.360 we don't seem to care about principles, we don't seem 244 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.320 to care about the blah blah. And that's true of 245 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:02.879 both sides, isn't it. 246 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:04.720 Well, yeah, it's the people at the time. Give you 247 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.080 a sense of the difference. Hl Mankin was in your 248 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.919 face kind of anti New dealer, simil libertarian, you know, 249 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.279 I don't know, agnostic, heal, he needed everybody, but who 250 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.200 was friends with everybody. He had correspondence that span the 251 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.879 political spectrum. He was respected, he was liked as an 252 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.240 individual could talk to people. I don't think there are as 253 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.960 many people who could who fit in that category today. 254 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.120 That's right. Yeah, he was real clever wit and I 255 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:34.799 mentioned frequently his thing. A year ago, if I had 256 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:38.720 a gold coin and a flasko whiskey, the whiskey was 257 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.279 illegal in the coin was legal. This year, the gold 258 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.840 coin is illegal and the Flasco whiskey is legal. So yeah, 259 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.519 he was always hadn't heard that one, but he was 260 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.840 always pointing out the absurdity of FDR. Yeah. So I 261 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:56.159 think one of the very telling things about FDR was 262 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.879 the war and peace issue. And you've got in here 263 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.399 part of his speech, which truly is amazing that he 264 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.600 makes when he's running as a candidate as a peace candidate. 265 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.279 He says, I've seen war. I've seen war on land 266 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.039 and sea. I have seen blood running from the wounded. 267 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:16.000 I've seen men coughing out their gas lungs. I've seen 268 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.639 the dead and the mud. I've seen cities destroyed. I've 269 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.799 seen two hundred limping, exhausted men come out of the 270 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.320 survivors of the regiment of one thousand that went forward 271 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.080 forty eight hours before. I have seen children starving. I've 272 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.080 seen the agony of mothers and wives. I hate war. 273 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.399 And you write, and, as he so often did, FDR 274 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:42.639 exaggerated his exposure to the fighting in World War One 275 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.279 was limited and sanitized. While the Navy had sent him 276 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:50.240 on a guided inspection of American naval and marine bases 277 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.679 in Europe, the main impression conveyed by his contemporary contemporaneous 278 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.399 diary account was that of a sightseer. So talk a 279 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.960 little bit about that, how he ran as a peace 280 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.440 candidate and then he flipped pushing us into war. 281 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:12.519 Well, FGR was playing both sides of the street. For example, 282 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.200 in the nineteen thirties, he'd been the guy to suggests, well, 283 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:23.759 maybe we need neutrality laws, and then later he pushed 284 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.519 for repeal of the Neutrality Act, saying I wish I'd 285 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.079 never signed it. Never mentioned that he was the guy 286 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.039 that helped to inspire it in the first place. So 287 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:37.519 he was a rabid interventionist. When he was Assistant Secretary 288 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:42.640 of the Navy under Wilson, he was constantly trying to 289 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:48.799 imitate his cousin Theodore and get some sort of incident possibly, 290 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:54.119 so he was a hawk. But then in the thirties 291 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.920 he sort of realizes there's all this anti war feeling 292 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.119 and he appeals to that. He actually applauds the Munich Agreement. 293 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.599 But then after that he becomes much more of an 294 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:16.960 interventionist and certainly aligns himself with Winston Churchill and so forth. 295 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:20.680 But a lot of this is done quietly, so he 296 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:24.759 started playing both sides of the street. And he is 297 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.880 in trouble in the nineteen forty election. His opponent, Wendell Wilkie, 298 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.119 who was kind of an interventionist too, but starts talking 299 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.960 like in America Firster during the last part of the 300 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.079 campaign is making inroads. So FDR is worried about this, 301 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.759 so very shortly before the election he gives this speech 302 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.960 he'd never given a speech this strong, where he says, 303 00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:50.200 I've said this before, and I'll say it again and 304 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.039 again and again. Your boys are not going to be 305 00:18:54.119 --> 00:19:00.839 sent into any foreign war full stop, right. Wynda Wilkie 306 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.759 heard that on the radio, and he said, that hypocritical 307 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.400 son of bit, some of a bitch has just lost 308 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:08.160 me the election. 309 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:09.640 And whether or. 310 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.559 Not that was true or not, FDR was, that was 311 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.720 a clear motivation. His son went up to him and said, Dad, 312 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.440 why did you say that. You never said anything like 313 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.559 that before. And he said, basically, well, I had to win, 314 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.079 you know, for the good of the country, that kind 315 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:30.519 of thing. So just amoral, an amoral figure, maybe worse 316 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:36.599 in so many ways, a very cynical, jaded man, I think, 317 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.839 who had great charm, Yes, but I never really cared 318 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.000 for him. I'm going to confess. Did you ever see 319 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:44.759 that movie Sunrise at Campabello? 320 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.039 No? I never saw that. 321 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.920 Oh it was a movie made in the fifties starring 322 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:54.039 Ralph Bellamy playing FDR in his battle against polio, and 323 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.480 I just you know, Bellamy captured FDR in some ways. 324 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.200 It was supposed to a sympathetic portrayal, but there was 325 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.799 just this charm which always seemed a little bit phony 326 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:10.920 to me. Yeah, and and very calculating but very effective. 327 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:13.440 Yeah, he seemed he seemed that way to me as well. 328 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.200 But I always kind of just dismissed that, as you know, 329 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.440 when you look at movies at the time, you know, 330 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.920 people came across as very stiff and pretentious and you know, 331 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.079 putting on airs and that that's kind of the way 332 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.799 that a lot of people would come across, even in 333 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:29.559 the movies at that time, they wouldn't come across as 334 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.759 you know, genuine or and so I kind of just 335 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.319 put it up to the zeitgeist of the time, if 336 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.480 you will. But yeah, it's it's interesting. And you begin 337 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:42.640 with his rise to power, talk a little bit about 338 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.599 that where'd this guy come from? 339 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.720 He he had a big advantage, and that he was 340 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:56.319 born into comfortable circumstances, not super wealth, but wealth. He 341 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:01.839 was a distant cousin of Theodore Roosevelt and very distant, 342 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.400 like seventh cousin, but the family had context with each 343 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:09.559 other and so forth. And he went he did. He 344 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:14.640 did the typical trajectory of someone in that class. He 345 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.240 went to Groton, a very exclusive private school, and he 346 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.759 went to Harvard. He got a Columbia his law degree 347 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.119 from Columbia. He had very mediocre grades. He was not 348 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.680 a good student, but he was a glad hander. People 349 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.720 liked him. He made his impact socially, and then it 350 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.880 was some people approached him and said, mister Roosevelt, we'd 351 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.480 like you to run for Congress, or not for Congress, 352 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:46.000 for a state legislature in New York. You know, Theodore 353 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.359 was president at the time. They happened to be Democrats. 354 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.440 I guess they thought that that was a brilliant move. 355 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.240 Now I say that if the Republicans had approached Franklin, 356 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.799 he probably would have run as a Republican. In fact, 357 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.640 he had supported his cousin very openly. When his cousin 358 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:04.640 ran for re election, it was his first vote was 359 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.759 for Theodore. But the Democrats asked him it was a 360 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.960 good Democratic year nineteen oh eight, So he ran as 361 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.400 a Democrat and he was able to win. And from 362 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:19.319 there he just impressed people. He got the attention of 363 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:24.400 a guy named Josephus Daniels who was Secretary of the Navy. 364 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:29.720 Quite a racist, Southern racist type, but Daniels was charmed 365 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.000 by Roosevelt. He had a very apt comment. He said 366 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.559 he was just like an actress. He had that he 367 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:44.839 had it right. And someone had said, was the case 368 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.240 of love at first sight? You know when Daniels saw him, 369 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.559 and I don't think anything went on, but he made 370 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.319 him assistant secretary of Navy, and from there Roosevelt was 371 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:58.920 imitating his cousin, either intentionally or by chance. Theodore had 372 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:03.240 been in the legislature, Theodore had been assistant secretary of 373 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.559 the Navy, and then Theodore was vice presidential candidate, as 374 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.240 Roosevelt was in nineteen twenty, so their very similarity. A 375 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.640 lot of parallels between them. One difference. Though Franklin did 376 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.240 not volunteer to fight in World War One, he was 377 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.279 in his late thirties, he could have. His cousin. Theodore said, 378 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.559 you have to get into the infantry, not just the Navy. 379 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:29.559 You have to get into the infantry. You have to 380 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.920 get in the fight. And Roosevelt came back and said, well, 381 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.680 my boss thinks I'm essential, And maybe his boss did 382 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:41.279 say that, but Theodore had had, you know, a similar boss. 383 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.240 He didn't have to go in. But Franklin was not 384 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.559 the man. The Theodore was right, and so he did not. 385 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.640 He did not serve in the military. 386 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:53.519 So at that point he was able bodied. At that 387 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:55.119 point he was able bodied and could have. 388 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:58.200 Yeah, that was before his bout of polio, which was 389 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.519 nineteen how old hekt's right here in nineteen twenty one, so. 390 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.759 It was about how old when that happened. 391 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:10.799 He was about thirty nine, quite a young man. And 392 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.279 the story, there's an interesting story there. Now a lot 393 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.920 of people said, can't you say something good about Roosevelt. 394 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.079 I will say that, you know, he showed great determination. 395 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:24.240 Of course, he had a lot of he had a 396 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:27.160 lot of help, he had a lot of doctors, he 397 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:29.440 had a lot of you know, leisure time, he had 398 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.960 a lot of support. But he showed great courage and 399 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.200 overcoming that. Part of the story that I was surprised 400 00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.200 by is who did he blame for the polio? He 401 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:43.200