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Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the

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episodes early and ad free, head on over to Freemanbeyond

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the Wall dot com forward slash Support.

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Speaker 2: I want to.

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Speaker 1: Explain something right now. If you support me through substack

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you support me through subscribe, star gum Road or on

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my website directly, I will send you a link where

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you can download the file and you can listen to

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it any way you wish. I really appreciate the support

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everyone gives me. It keeps the show going. It allows

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me to basically put out an episode every day now,

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and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate.

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I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two

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even three a day, and yeah, can't do it without you,

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So thank you for the support. Head on over to

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do it there.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peginiana Show.

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Thomas Hey, part two of the police series.

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Speaker 2: How you doing man, I'm doing well, Thank you man. Yeah,

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I think it was pretty Part one's seem to be

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pretty well received people. Uh, I guess some of the

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subs were confused that the whole thing wasn't on YouTube.

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I don't know why. It's like in the description it

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said it was just like a preview.

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Speaker 1: But let me address that real quick in the beginning

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of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the videos are not gonna

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be on YouTube brumble bit shoot anymore. You get a preview.

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If you decided something you want to watch, you can

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go over to one of the podcast apps and listen

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to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just not knowing that video. I'm not gonna put

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out video anymore. No, no, that makes perfect sense, man.

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And and yeah, like I didn't think it was confusing

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or anything. That's that seems like a perfectly reasonable way

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to do it. So yeah, that's that's great.

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Speaker 1: If it's a particularly if it's a subject that I

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think we need video for, I'll release it for subscribers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that that that makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I I wasn't confused by the whole thing,

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but a handful of people hit me up about it.

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So yeah, thanks for thanks for shouting it out, I think,

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And then we finished it off last time talking about

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Robert Peel and like the Peel principles, and you know,

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I emphasize that not to be pedantic or because I

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get excited about triviality is and the historical record. But

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again that agree to which policing really is a political phenomenon.

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It's not. It's not this necessity whereby, oh, the police

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have always been here. You know, the police have existed

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for forty thousand years, like basically since man became like

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sentient and if they go away, there's anarchy. That's not

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why you have a police department, you know. And the

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American model. The reason why there's not like there's not

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like an American version of like the German order police

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that are like part of the National Guard or something

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is because there's a there's a strange situation in the

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UK and America. And for clarity too, like uh, you know,

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Peel absolutely was the thought, wasn't is the father of

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modern what's called like metropolitan policing. The first, the first

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true police department came from Scotland. That's like, get another

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thing that like the Scottish came up with in uh

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in this the City of Glasgow police like the first,

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like the first professional police department. They were established an

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Act of Parliament in eighteen hundred. I knew that, but

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some of the some of like this, some of the

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Pikey's like shouted out and like what the fuck the

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first police was quoting the quotes. So there you go.

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And Peel, Uh, the the London Uh, the London Metropolitan

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Police were created by the Peace the Peace Preservation Act

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of eighteen fourteen, and Peel essentially like drafted that in

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all but name. I don't know if he's credited as

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as as the primary author, but yeah, for context in

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at the turn of the nineteenth century, London had it

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had four hundred fifty constables and service to the kings

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or Queen's bench and forty hundred night watchmen, you know,

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and it was, uh, it wasn't within the contemplation that

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there'd be like a permanent professional police force until Peel's

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reforms and when he became Home Secretary. That's really when

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it began in earnest. But there the significance to us

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in this country. You know, everything kind of changed with

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the New Deal regime and subsequent and you know, one

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of the reasons why it is people might and older.

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Remember one of the reasons why it was a big

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deal when the media kind of turned on LAPD and

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you know, when the Rodney King incident happened, and then

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like the subsequent you know, like race war came about.

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I'm not I'm not being shrill. I mean that there

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really was a race war. You know. I think people

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kind of confused William H. Parker with Darryl Gates. And

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I've noticed that too because a lot of these it's

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fading because like nobody takes woke shit seriously anymore. But

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at that at the peak of that garbage, like I

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think around like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, there was a

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lot of these. There was a there was a handful

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like history as a Los Angeles that made sound of

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a splash and it kind of made, you know it

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kind of mainstream academ which is very midwood stuff. But

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there was this big effort to kind of slander William H. Parker.

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And I realized because I'm like, why theyre singling out

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Parker And I'll get to why that's weird in a minute.

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But then I realized a lot of these people, I

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think Parker and Gates are the same guy. You know,

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and Gates. I I think Gates was kind of an

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ugly guy, like not not for this, not for the

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reasons that a lot of left wingers do. But I

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you know, I I'll get into why I think that

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in a bit. But but Parker, Parker was this big progressive,

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you know, he and his He's kind of like the

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American Robert Peel in some ways, you know, because like

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policing before the nineteen fifties, really in America, it's like

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corruption was kind of taken for granted, Like I mean,

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like graft, like BESI was understood like in any big

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city you can like pay off the cops and get

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them off your back. It was very ad hoc I

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think that until I think I think in the nineteen forties,

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the city of Miami you had literally two sworn police officers,

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you know, and even in cities where you had, you know,

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a more mobilized police force like Chicago, it didn't it

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didn't function the way like we think of it. They

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were kind of like de facto like you know, union

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busters and strike breakers. You know, you kind of rely

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on police services and you could like pay them to

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show up like below board, you know, and it was

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not in Gangs in New York, which I think is

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a really great film, although like a lot of people

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trash it for reasons I don't quite understand, but I

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like it for a lot of reasons. I mean, it's

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the only film that really deals with kind of the

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the what life was like in big northern cities during

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the War between the States. But Happy Jack, you know,

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the the thug like the like the policemen played by

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John c Riley was like out there thugginghead like that

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was pretty realistic. Like by all accounts, man like that.

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That's like what the police were like. You know.

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Speaker 1: There was a there was a show. I can't remember

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if it was on AMC or History, but it was.

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It only did two seasons. It was called Copper Uh huh,

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and it was I've never heard of it. Yeah, yeah,

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it was really good and it really it did a

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good job of showing it would be late eighteen hundreds,

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it's eighteen eighties, eighteen nineties, and it did a really

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good job as showing just exactly that the whole John

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c Riley thing about how they were a lot of

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them were just thugs. A lot of them grew up

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thugs or they came back from the war and they

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had nothing else that they could do, and they got

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thrown into into policing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were good at strong arming people when they

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they and they were yeah, and they were good with

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with with a hand on it, which in those days,

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I mean today, I'm still a terrible pistol shot. But

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these days it's a lot easier to stay Ontario the

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pistol than if you're using some old cold forty by peacemaker,

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you know, like even I mean, you know that you're

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a gun guy. But but yeah, so that's you know,

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it's basically what the police were. It's not some that's

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not some progressive myth about you know, the bad guy

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police or something. I mean, it's a fact, but it.

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But Parker, you know, all kinds of in every sense

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in public policy, you know, always making the point that

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sociology was a real discipline, like because of the Cold

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War and because the managerial state. And Parker was one

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of these guys. I'll get into his background in a minute,

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But in the nineteen fifties and sixties, like big city

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police chiefs or in Chicago police superintendents as we call them,

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they weren't just like career cops who you know had

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like the ear of the mirror. I mean, there's definitely

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some of that, but this idea of you know, a

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cop needs to be some like college educated type with

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with you know, preferably with the with a kind of

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prestige degree, you know, which in those days supposed like

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a degree in sociology or economics or like urban planning

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or something. You know, Like this was a big thing,

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you know, and that's one of the reasons why Parker

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didn't like Hollywood. But the reason why shows like Dragnet

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were a big deal. Like they worked with La PD

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and Parker cultivated that, you know, I got La Confidential.

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How the guy played like Kevin Space even sends he's

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like always wearing uh, he's always wearing Italian suits, and

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he's got like manicured fingernails, and he's he's consulting with

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a guy he was supposed to be Jack Webb. I'm

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Dragnet Like that was the real thing. Like the Hollywood

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La Cop who knows who had them, you know, who's

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interface of the media in a way that that is

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essential kind of the public image, you know, like they

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had stuff all came from Parker and uh, you know

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that this was the l e PD was held out

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as like the model police force, and if you read

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the kind of stuff Parker said, it was all like

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the Peel principles. You know, it's like we're a community

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based police department. You know, like we're not here, you know,

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just to arrest people and and smack people up. You know. Uh,

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We're not just a bunch of stripe breakers. Like he

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was like this big progressive who like was was a who.

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I mean, that's why it's weird theyre trying to present

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him as this kind of like clansman type or something like,

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because he wasn't at all. He was like this big

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progressive and his big thing was that, like the the

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La County sheriffs, they had a reputation as being kind

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of like very redneckish and very rough. And his whole

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thing was like, we're not like those guys. You know. Uh,

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Parker like high he was into hiring blacks and uh

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and like mestizel people, you know, to police their own

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hoods and stuff like this. That was like this whole thing,

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you know, and like that people might be like, well,

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that's just like police work. But yeah, that's why it's

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police work because of Parker. And Parker was falling back

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on on this stuff from the UK because he was

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an educated guy, and like most of these guys, you know,

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he came up through the service during the War two,

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like he'd been born in uh in the Dakotas and

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found his way to give me one second, my machines

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freaking out there we go. Yeah, he was born he

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was born in South Dakota and made his way uh

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in Deadwood, you know, which has like an auspicious heritage

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as regards law enforcement and stuff. And then he, uh

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he made his way to southern California like a lot

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of like a lot of people did from that part

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of the country, including my paternal grandfather. His uh, his grandfather,

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William H. Parker, was a war hero. He fought to

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the Union Army and in the War between the States

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and later served in Congress. And Parker was uh he

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was very Catholic, which obviously was unusual and in uh

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in like Los Angeles at the time, which was just

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kind of like a wasp it was. It was a

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really it was kind of like a wasp bread out

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like literally like rich waspy people. He kind of settled

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it and those people like their their descendants like still

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have a lot of cloud there, you know. And and

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then and there was a lot of like okies too,

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you know who like working in poor like white folks.

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But you know, Parker was kind of outside of that culture.

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But he, uh, he joined la PD on August eighteenth,

239
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nineteen twenty seven. He was going to law school, and

240
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,519
it's the idea was that it was just going to

241
00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:04,200
like put him through school and it was like something

242
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,720
to do and like, you know, well during the course

243
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,120
of his studies, and he said he could learn like,

244
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you know, stuff about public policy or whatever. I'm at

245
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:17,120
the road in terms of functional application of the law,

246
00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:20,559
you know, like in an executive role at street level.

247
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But he decided every past the bar exam, he just

248
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he decided to he decided to stay on is early

249
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he early on, like he was a big advocate of

250
00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:35,240
like a police the police union, which at that time

251
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I think the New York and Chicago or paternal or

252
00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:43,039
a police were already a thing. But like the idea

253
00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:46,960
of public sector unions, I'm don't get me wrong, Like

254
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,440
police work in them days was a lot different than today.

255
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,399
And like those guys actually did need some kind of

256
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,679
formal representation visa via the city council and stuff. It's

257
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not it's not like ridiculous bullshit like I make a

258
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teacher's union. But you know, public sector unions weren't a thing,

259
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and uh, back in those days in California, I think

260
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throughout the state, so that there was any kind of

261
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,120
like cop representation, and in terms of organized labor, it

262
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,399
was generally like a police and firefighters union, and that

263
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,120
was that was his primary role. You know, he wasn't

264
00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:28,759
mostly a beat cop, but he did. He took leave

265
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to go fight in uh World War two, and he

266
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,720
was in uh, he was in Dura combat. He got

267
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,919
a purple heart for wounds that he received in Normandy,

268
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and he'd been in UH he'd been at the assault

269
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,600
in Sardinia, and because of his background as a cop,

270
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:55,240
they put him. He was both in the role it's

271
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,759
kind of like a counterinsurgency planner like in theater, and

272
00:16:58,799 --> 00:17:02,080
he was responsible for ows and stuff and detention as

273
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,200
well as you know, kind of policing uh the ranks

274
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:14,200
post occupation in Munich and stuff. That's a uh, that's

275
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,519
a resume. I'm not trying to cast an ominous light

276
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,839
on Parker. But that's a resume, not unlike John Burge,

277
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:27,200
although Burge I believe was engaged in Phoenix program type

278
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,400
stuff and not for those that don't know, Burge was

279
00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:33,680
he was a homicide police here in Chicago, very feared guy.

280
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His name rang out and he he got indicted like

281
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,559
years after he retired from torturing suspects, procuring all these

282
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:49,440
dubious confessions that were procured under duress, but did agree

283
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,440
to it. The military during like the draft era, you know,

284
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:58,799
and basically you know, World War One through nom and

285
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:00,759
and the relationship of L. E. P D to the

286
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:04,440
Vietnam War particularly very interesting. Joseph Wambaugh gets into that.

287
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,519
We'll talk a little bit of Wamba. But during during

288
00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:11,079
the World War two era, you know, like there was

289
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,880
a glott of guys who who'd uh, who'd been in

290
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,640
a heavy action, who became cops or guys like Parker

291
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,920
who'd you know, already been score an officers and then left,

292
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,000
you know, to leave, like you know, to join the

293
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:30,839
service or to be you know, satisfy their draft obligation

294
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:38,200
or whatever. But he he got, he got the War Cross.

295
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,359
I'm not even gonna try and pronounce that the croix

296
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,480
the ge I think is what it's called. It's basically, uh,

297
00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:52,000
basically the Frenchy equivalent of the war merit cross maintaining

298
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,559
ordered in the liberation of Paris. But out of the war,

299
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:58,359
he shout through the ranks, became one of the one

300
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,839
of the deputy chiefs, and by nineteen fifty he was

301
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,759
by the year nineteen fifty, like he was a big

302
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:10,119
shot and he he he's responsible for not just cleaning

303
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,480
up graft at street level, but you know, kind of

304
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:18,240
a insinuating LA, insulating lapd from like war to politics.

305
00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:21,119
There's one of the reasons too. I like mafia guys

306
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,599
in the traditional sense, like couldn't really get a toe

307
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,839
hold in California, you know, like I I'm sorry to

308
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,960
keep citing a Hollywood movie as authoritative beat, but it

309
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:33,759
draws upon real stuff and some people are familiar with,

310
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:36,440
you know, like an LA Confidential. There's a scene where

311
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,519
like Dudley, like Budd White, who's like, isn't forced her,

312
00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:42,480
you know, he's like a goon police like they they

313
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,480
were that. He's like East Coast mob guys are in

314
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,200
Los Angeles for some reason, so like Dudley has white

315
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,000
in the goon squad like Shanghai these dudes and like

316
00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:56,559
take them to you know, take take them to some

317
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,720
interrogation location and like beat the fuck up out of them.

318
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,079
And then they literally like put these guys like back

319
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,039
on a train going back east, like all like broken

320
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,200
up and and bang up and battered like LAPD did

321
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,480
stuff like that. And that's one of the reasons Lava

322
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:16,440
was always an open territory. Like it's not just because

323
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,680
the LAPD would literally fuck your world up, you know

324
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,079
if you were outsider trying to set up rackets there,

325
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,720
but there really wasn't. There wasn't like any ward boss

326
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,799
you could go visit in La you know who if

327
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:32,519
it didn't you know who, peeps be like, hey, I'm

328
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:36,039
so and so, you know, and my guy vouch for me,

329
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,039
Like let's do business. And I mean you have like

330
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:40,759
and you don't have to. You don't have just like

331
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:42,759
you don't have the same hood structure in La Man.

332
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:46,440
I mean yeah, it's like like East La Spanish traditionally

333
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,160
south Central as black, you know, and then you got

334
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,839
like Oki and white hoods. But it's not like Chicago

335
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,519
and New York it's not like there's like this like

336
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,960
words system where you know, you were like bosses on

337
00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:03,519
from the ground up, is like how you got stuff done.

338
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:09,720
So you know, Parker kind of yeah, it's like okay,

339
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,920
any man in the airheads to work cut out for him.

340
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,079
But you know, it's it's important to distinguish that Los

341
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:19,160
Angeles was kind of fertile grounds for a lot of

342
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,359
this stuff and a lot of this kind of social

343
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:27,119
policy experimentation. That's not to say it's a tabula rasa,

344
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,599
but it's not only that's one of reason too, Like

345
00:21:29,799 --> 00:21:34,839
I mean, because we just did a California series, this

346
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,359
is one of the reasons why people are gotta be

347
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,400
able to project onto California, specifically Los Angeles. This kind

348
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,559
of confabulated narrative of its political heritage, you know, like

349
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,480
one one way or the other to try and show

350
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:56,319
up a mandate of an ideological nature. But you know,

351
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,279
the uh one of Parker's big things, and Gates later

352
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:09,000
ran with this, albeit pretty very different reasons. But Parker

353
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:19,160
h Parker dramatically reduced the size of LAPD and he

354
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:23,200
actually militarized it in key ways, not in terms of

355
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,000
its ethos, but his whole thing was mobility. And you know,

356
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:32,279
again like his formative experience at command level, and I

357
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,279
believe the rank of commander as a police rank came

358
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,720
about under Parker's tenure, but you know, his his experience,

359
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,240
his form of experience had been in the service, like

360
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:48,440
at the you know, in the military, and that perspective

361
00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,680
shaped LAPD and you know that's what like air mobility

362
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,920
by uh, like the Vietnam era was a huge thing

363
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,799
with LAPD two. You know, like they make use of

364
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,279
shoppers in a way that northern police departments do. I mean,

365
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:06,039
part of that's just because the geography and the vastness

366
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:11,160
of the territory they're responsible for, but it's also a

367
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,839
very military way of like staying on target or I

368
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,039
don't I don't know how the police what their nomenclatter

369
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,200
is for that. I'm sure they call it something different

370
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:25,519
that sounds less ominous or or direct the action oriented but.

371
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,039
Speaker 1: Not not not to try to be funny, but Mayor

372
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:37,039
Goody and Philadelphia also used helicopters to change Philadelphia, do

373
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,039
you remember that?

374
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:45,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, that's a fair point.

375
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,160
But the you know, the so it's on the one hand,

376
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,759
so it's kind of like two competing tendencies, like the

377
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:02,720
posture of police deployment away from you know, like uh

378
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,839
like like police literally walking beats in uh the same neighborhood.

379
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,039
It's just that they're insinuated into the community to like

380
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,200
rotating officers, you know, so they get like a city

381
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,640
wide perspective and get used to kind of interfacing with

382
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:27,400
with every major population segment. And you know, switching to

383
00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:31,000
police cars over foot patrols. That was a huge Parker

384
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:33,640
thing because his old thing too was like you know

385
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,240
and being able to swarm be you know, being able

386
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:45,720
to swarm units to uh to reinforce officers in trouble,

387
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,440
you know, order to respond to the running force. Like

388
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:50,759
that was a that was a Parker innovation. And uh,

389
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:59,559
this stuff, uh it's being a wamba. I highly recommend

390
00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:05,200
anything written but the Onion Field, which is a horrible story.

391
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,240
These two il EPD playing clothes cops were kidnapped and

392
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,559
one of them was murdered. The other guy survived and

393
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,200
the way he was treated was horrible. But you know,

394
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:26,160
in those days like there there wasn't you know, police

395
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:31,240
radios were tied to the vehicle that they were driving

396
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,519
and obviously there wasn't the same kind of modern telecom

397
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,519
and uh, if somebody got the drop on you in

398
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,319
those days and previously, if you were told to like

399
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,119
surrender your weapon, you were like police were told they

400
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,440
should comply like subsequently, and this is a Parker innovation,

401
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:54,079
he said, like never ever surrender your service weapon, you know,

402
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:56,960
like basically you should die before we ever give up

403
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,920
your weapon, you know, And the police just adopted a

404
00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:04,480
more military mindset and like across the board. But at

405
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:07,720
the same time, though, you know, like I said, like

406
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:16,240
Parker was very much part of the sociologically progressive, academically polished,

407
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,720
classic kind of bureaucrats who represented the face twenty century policing.

408
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:27,559
And interestingly, Gene Roddenberry served with LAPD. You know, he's

409
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:29,799
like the Star Trek guy. I think Star Trek's goofy.

410
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,799
I'm not a fan of it. But the original series

411
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,240
is a very much kind of a time capsule of

412
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,920
like the Kennedy sixties Kennedy or sixties. I realized that

413
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,920
it endured beyond that. But Captain Kirk is based on

414
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:49,559
William H. Parker, like like literally, like roden Berry said that,

415
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,400
and like he knew the guy, you know, and he's like,

416
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,759
that's like Kirk is like this guy. He was like

417
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:59,279
this man of action, but he's also like mister you know,

418
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:02,839
he's always exciting Abraham Lincoln in the Constitution and he's

419
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,880
like he's like mister like appeal to legal authority, and

420
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,960
we do everything by the book. He's supposed to be

421
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,880
William H. Parker, Okay. And that's also why, like he's

422
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,440
got like a multi racial crew and he's got he's

423
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,400
got the Russian guy on deck, he's got like the

424
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,960
effeminate Asian guy. He's got like the black woman who's

425
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:23,359
like his telecom officer. Like this this wasn't just that,

426
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,000
This wasn't just token his 'm on television. I mean, yeah,

427
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:28,279
that was part of it, but that was very deliberate,

428
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,000
Like this is this is whyamage Parker's police department in space,

429
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:37,480
you know, which I which I think is interesting. But

430
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,160
the Ivan, he had a kind of the kind of

431
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,359
stuff I'm talking about. And Wamba wrote directly about this

432
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,759
in his in the Like, he wrote it was in

433
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:53,039
the onion field, and he mentioned this later in his life.

434
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:57,680
The like is an ongoing like example of kind of

435
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,440
the weirdness of the of the sixties is in kind

436
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,640
of the new the kind of new fangled progressivism of it.

437
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,680
It was on the game to be called colloquially the

438
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,319
coloquially the blazer experiments, as in a blazer like a

439
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:20,039
sports jacket in Uh, this jurist this town called Menlo

440
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,680
Park in California. They hired this, but it was they

441
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:35,920
hired this police chief named uh victorak Cizankas Cizankis, I

442
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:42,079
think I'm butchering that name, forgive me, but his Melo

443
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,119
Park was added. They to say that had troubled community.

444
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,880
To say the troubled community relations the police department, I mean,

445
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,119
would be a gross understatement. Okay, this was nineteen sixty eight.

446
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,599
That's kind of nationwide that these issues were emergent, but

447
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:04,319
it was particularly pronounced in me little park. Okay, they've

448
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:11,799
been hit particularly hard by the nineteen sixties there. It's

449
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,240
located just south of San Francisco, so they caught a

450
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:18,440
lot of the same ship that the Bay Area proper.

451
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:21,720
Did you know, a lot of like a lot of

452
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:23,680
a lot of a lot of a lot of cultivated

453
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,599
student radicalism. You know, when I say cultivated, I mean

454
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,000
you know, the usual suspects and g os and things

455
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:33,039
to do what they can to provoke and orchestrate the

456
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:37,000
kind of thing. But just like real, like real, just

457
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:41,079
like organic difficulties between the races, you know. As Unfortunately,

458
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,519
as you know, Southern California is associated with North and South. Uh.

459
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:55,000
The Memlo Park Coppers, their reputation is being kind of

460
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:59,720
a kick ass police department. And during racial incidents or

461
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,279
or anti war protest that got out of hand, like

462
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:05,359
like the police would go in and kickle out of

463
00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:11,799
the ass, okay. And this caused this, this, this, this

464
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:20,799
caused real problems, all right. So Susannacis Versusankas, sorry Sankas.

465
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:26,440
He's brought in and he's got this kind of like

466
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:34,119
radical orientation about policing. And it was called the Blazer

467
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,680
experiment because he did away with police uniforms. He's like, Okay,

468
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,240
from now on, he's that we're not we're not we're

469
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,359
not gonna wear some paramilitary uniform with a sam Brown

470
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,599
belt and like, uh, you know, like a piece on

471
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:54,359
your hip or we're not gonna do that anymore. So

472
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:59,200
these Menlo Park police, they started going around wearing like

473
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:02,559
khaki pants, ants and these like green blazers, so they

474
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:04,480
look like guy who's like worked at a country club

475
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,039
or something. And there's like this little like city crest

476
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,279
on on like the breast pocket like you can you

477
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:14,519
can like google is and it's it's ridiculous. And your

478
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:16,759
your weapon, your service weapon was always sposed to be

479
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:20,200
out of view, okay, either by way of a shoulder

480
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:24,440
holster or you know, discreetly squirreled away like in an

481
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,920
ankle holster, you know, because no one's never supposed to

482
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,000
see it, you know. And there's this whole there's this

483
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:35,920
whole litany of kind of rules for how you're supposed

484
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,079
to and instigate like basically a terry stop and like

485
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,720
even if you have to, even if you have to,

486
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:46,000
like you know, stop and frisk somebody because they're obviously

487
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:52,359
strapped or because they're up to you know, or because

488
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,920
like your police instincts or however they characterize it in

489
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,920
those days, tells you that, you know, you know, your

490
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,240
spidey senses tell you something you don't like about this

491
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:07,160
this suspect, So frisk iimmn figure out the problem, cause

492
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,319
later you're supposed to always lok initiate those contacts by

493
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,319
you know, but by asking somebody if if if they

494
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,400
if they have consent, you know, shit like that, which

495
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,519
is fucking stupid. Okay, it was, it was. It was stupid,

496
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,640
stupid today. It was stupid back then. And like a

497
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:31,119
lot of this crap is coming back, but these days

498
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,759
it's it's in combination with various other factors, you know,

499
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,759
like like like policing as it's existed is coming to

500
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,599
an end, okay, And so it's kind of interesting to me,

501
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,720
Like in nineteen sixty eight, uh, the Peel model of

502
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,960
police work at far from exhausted itself, obviously, but it's

503
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:54,759
interesting on some of this stuff is kind of coming

504
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,880
back because if it's an issue of first impression as

505
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,680
people scramble kind of trying salvage this this obsolete model.

506
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,680
But you know, this caused, uh, this caused a lot

507
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:13,880
of consternation among the ranks of police departments because obviously

508
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,079
there was these like like progressive types, you know, and

509
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:23,599
including uh Susankas's fans, they thought like this was great,

510
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:27,079
but you know, a cops who were who were dealing

511
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,960
with burgaining anarchy and in real violence, you know, in

512
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,319
in Los Angeles and Chicago, in Boston and Philly and

513
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,759
New York City. You know, being a cop was a

514
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,799
dangerous job then, and you know you you very much

515
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:48,559
were out gunned, you know, you very much You're in

516
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,400
jeopardy then in a way you're not today. You know,

517
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:58,359
I realized there's cops in god forsaken places that are

518
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,359
in fact under fire a lot, and uh, they don't

519
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,400
have the kind of forces and being or the firepower

520
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:11,599
to really be confident, you know, and if if, if

521
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,119
they get moved on. But that's the exception, not the rule.

522
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,519
Like in the nineteen sixties, that was that was the rule,

523
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:23,800
not the exception. Okay, Parker's police department was was was

524
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,239
was kind of the exception because they had all that stuff.

525
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:33,320
But you know, like very very very kind of rapidly

526
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:39,400
this uh the Blazer experiment. Uh, like people realize like

527
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:42,679
this is just not this is not something that's gonna work.

528
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,679
And uh but the what did uh what what what

529
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:54,280
did linger? Though? Is you know, the the like like

530
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:01,039
career minded officers coming from more academically rigorous backgrounds. That's

531
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:03,440
something that endured really until like the early eighties, and

532
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,960
then by then like that was by then that was done.

533
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,519
You know, for a lot of reasons. Part of it

534
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:14,960
was a trickle down effect of of of military industrial imperatives.

535
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,119
I mean, I don't know that makes me sound like

536
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:17,920
some shopski, I don't. I don't mean it in the

537
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,039
same way that people like ke xachlites do. But it

538
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:27,039
is a fact. But one of the one of the

539
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:29,679
one of the many kind of coheimes of comical things

540
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:36,480
about the Blazer experiments. The the organizational lingue lingo of

541
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:43,400
the police department was changed. Sergeants became managers and police

542
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,360
lieutenants and menlo were called directors. Like it, I mean

543
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,480
that it's it's it's a comical bullshit. It's got like

544
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,519
the kind like there was something that I don't like

545
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:55,800
the Vietnam ere at military, like in the Poga and

546
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,880
the pole ranks. But uh, it's just you know every

547
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:07,079
strange era man, but this but by the early seventies,

548
00:36:10,199 --> 00:36:12,039
all this kind of all this all this kind of stuff,

549
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:17,400
and it kind of fallen out of favor even, you know,

550
00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:22,360
it even even among a kind of the most art

551
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,400
you know polemisis of uh in favor of you know,

552
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:31,039
police reform, which in their view would you know, kind

553
00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:36,679
of constitute a stripping of the ability of big city

554
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:45,079
police to you know, to meet to meet breads. You know,

555
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,519
this is like little remembered the day, and it's remarkable

556
00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:51,559
the kind of short memory people have. And I think

557
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:56,119
about this a lot, especially when there's when the regime

558
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,840
tries to been sitting with propaganda about you know, domestic

559
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:07,079
terrorism into in the politic discussions. You know. Uh, during

560
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:11,559
the early nineteen seventies, there was there was constant, genuine

561
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:19,119
like domestic terrorist incidents, you know, coast to coast. Nixon

562
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,360
and Jay R. Hoover, who you know, even in the

563
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,679
best of times, had a very contentious and not at

564
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:34,079
all friendly relationship to say the least. This became such

565
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:40,760
a concern that Nixon during June nineteen seventy, Nixon haaled

566
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,119
uh Hoover into the Oval office and he he said,

567
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:53,440
have known certain terms that uh quote, revolutionary terror was

568
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:59,239
the greatest single threat to like civil order in America

569
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,400
at the time. And that wasn't that wasn't hyperboleeve. You know,

570
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:10,599
there was like the weathermen were going nuts. Uh. There

571
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:16,800
was a half a dozen other you know, self declared

572
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,840
you know, like Mawist revolutionary groupings that were dropping bodies

573
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,840
and and and and and pulling off ied attacks. You know,

574
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,320
there were the Patty Hurst incidents. It's almost so strange,

575
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,400
like that seems like something that like like a Hollywood

576
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,280
screenwriter had like written that Patty Hurst s l a

577
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,079
situation into some script. Like people would have laughed at it,

578
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,719
saying there's no way that could possibly happen. But I mean,

579
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:48,719
but but it happened.

580
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:53,199
Speaker 1: You know, you had a lot of hijacking, a lot

581
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,639
of hijacking of planes too.

582
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: It became the norm. Yeah, it became something that was

583
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,880
as common as a like armed robbery and yeah, and

584
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,559
the the zebra killings, you know, which were, uh, what's

585
00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:12,239
we're what's we're horrifying? You know, And that was like

586
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:17,760
part of it was a deliberate suppression of of reporting

587
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,840
on on i've racially driven violence so as the you know,

588
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,599
preclude escalation and the kindling effect as it were. But

589
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,079
part of it was also, like the zebra killings, people

590
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:35,039
don't know about them. It was this offshoot of the

591
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:40,199
five percenter faction of the ny who call themselves death Angels. Uh.

592
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:47,079
They went on this rampage of just random torture murders

593
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:52,360
of white people in the Bay Area and the police

594
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,280
code UH for these incidents with Zebra it's insant. It's

595
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,239
ironically accidental that, you know, the implication of zebras as

596
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,280
relating to black and white striping or whatever. But that

597
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,639
was going on at the same time the Zodiac killer

598
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,559
was was bodying people and and and taunting the cops.

599
00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:18,320
So it's kind of overshadowed. But this is a real thing,

600
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:25,760
you know, and it uh there were throughout the seventies,

601
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,440
there was there was hundreds of these incidents every year,

602
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:35,400
you know, if not thousands, great and small, the UH

603
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,559
and then downtown New York even this got this this

604
00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:43,599
whole kind of air got kicked off the summer of

605
00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:49,760
sixty nine, this uh, this commie radical named Sam Melville,

606
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,480
him and his UH cadre, they bombed something like a

607
00:40:55,599 --> 00:41:00,360
dozen buildings like in downtown Manhattan, you know, from the

608
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,679
summer of sixty nine until like that November, and then

609
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,559
against the seventies as ninety six nine, nineteen seventy it

610
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:14,679
only it only snowballed, you know, I mean, so it's

611
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:21,280
kind of it was kind of fertile ground for UH. Yeah.

612
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,760
By nineteen seventy two, incredible as it is. I mean,

613
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,119
back in these days, FBI statistics were substantially more reliable

614
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:33,039
than today. In ninety seventy two, there was there's two

615
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:38,639
thousand and five hundred politically motivated bombings or ied attacks

616
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,360
on American soil. That that that comes out to five

617
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:48,599
a day. Okay, excuse me, this is totally insane, but

618
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,920
that that's that's what laid the groundwork for kind of

619
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:58,360
nineteen eighties policing, which truly is when things truly became

620
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,360
paramilitary arised, you know, And and Darryl Gates was the

621
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:10,639
standard bearer of that, you know, and Gates is most remembered.

622
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:14,880
I mean, I Gates was because I spent so much

623
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,159
time in LA as a kid. And Gate Gates was

624
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:22,760
an intimidating guy, you know, like I any, and he

625
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,199
seemed he seemed to paramilitary, you know, like a lot

626
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,960
of big city cops either seemed they seem kind of

627
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:33,440
like either like Keystone cop eurocrats, you know, like goofs

628
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,360
where they seemed just kind of like politicians like Gates

629
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:41,519
like seemed like a bad dude, you know, and he'd

630
00:42:41,599 --> 00:42:45,960
uh l a p D. You'd see him, uh you know,

631
00:42:46,039 --> 00:42:48,159
the l A p D. They didn't wear ties. They'd

632
00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:51,559
wear those like uh, they'd wear those like v neck

633
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:55,719
like button. I'm sure it's like a vest. They looked

634
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,760
like super modern and and they were all a bunch

635
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,360
of like in the eighties, they're all a bunch of

636
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,440
like buffed out, like tough looking guys. You know. I

637
00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:06,639
was just I was used to like Chicago cops look

638
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,400
like goons and the and they've always come heavy, but

639
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,639
they like Chica cops the air, I kind of look

640
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,320
like fat ass like mob guys or something, you know,

641
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:17,239
So like in LA As a kid, I was always

642
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,679
kind of tripped out by Darrel Gaze and OAPD. But

643
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:24,559
you know what Gates is most kind of known for

644
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:35,280
is stuff like the CRASH program, which began prior to

645
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,880
gates his tenure. But you know, the movie Colors like

646
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:43,480
was about CRASH, which is an acronym for community Resources

647
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:49,280
against Street Hooligans. It uh, it originally was called trash

648
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,679
Total Resources against Street Hooligans. And I would sly references

649
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,559
like we're like the garbage MANX, We're taking out the

650
00:43:55,599 --> 00:44:01,679
fucking trash, and LABD realized like when that would public well,

651
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,199
this isn't like great pr but you know, Gates also

652
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,679
is the father of SWAT. He devised SWAT, which initially

653
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,199
was Special Weapons Assault Team. You know, then we have

654
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:22,519
special weapons and tactics, but uh, Gates divides that during

655
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:27,760
Parker's tenure, you know, and uh that was actually very

656
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,920
forward looking, like one of the reasons why one of

657
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,199
one of a million reasons why the FBI is like

658
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,719
it's head up his ass, you know how, like their

659
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,480
direct action capability is still the hostage rescue team and

660
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:42,239
their operational paradigm like until very recently was that treat

661
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,880
everything as if it's a hostage situation, which makes which

662
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,119
makes no sense whatsoever. Like Gates a SWAT model, was it?

663
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,599
I mean he actually he proceeded. He proceeded kind of

664
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:57,639
like a lot of the a lot of the military

665
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,199
types were dynamically and progressive minded of the day in

666
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,280
tactical terms, I mean, not political terms. You know, who

667
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:12,199
were around, like the Special Operations Forces community, you know,

668
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:13,880
and in those days, I was before there was an

669
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,199
integrated command or anything, and it was hard to get

670
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,880
anything done. It's like in the individual commands. It kind

671
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,480
of what kind of made or broke everything was you

672
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:26,320
know who was in a leadership role. But but for

673
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,519
better or worse, LPD swat. You know, they they were

674
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,159
very dynamic, you know, and there's a kind of a

675
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,639
full repertoire of of of force responses that they trained for,

676
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,280
you know, and they were very serious guys. But crash

677
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:46,920
and which culminated in an operation Hammer, which the opening

678
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,199
of the movie Colors, which I think Colors is a

679
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:56,880
fucking great movie, but the opening scene or LAPD, they

680
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,199
just like swarm the city and they basically like they

681
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,199
basically throw bracelets on like every known gang member or

682
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,480
like everybody or like every or every like military age

683
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:09,079
male like flying colors, and they like throw them in

684
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:13,480
the county jail, you know, to kind of get an

685
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:17,000
idea like not like not just to like send it

686
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:19,039
to literally lay the hammer down and say like l E.

687
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:22,000
P D runs the street. But uh, they wanted to

688
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:23,760
get an under they wanted they wanted to also like

689
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,280
get these guys government names all in the system, but

690
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,639
they also want to get an idea like forest levels

691
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:33,280
that like major sets had you know, crips, Blood's Eighteenth Street,

692
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:39,880
you know, all those all all those mobs in in

693
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,800
in South Central and East LA. But it was uh,

694
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:49,079
but that but that that was to the end to

695
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:52,039
like community based policing. It's like, okay, we got the

696
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:57,639
spare plunk of our forces. Crash. You know, every every

697
00:46:57,679 --> 00:47:02,039
police I think there's eighteen police district in Los Angeles

698
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,880
and every district had a crash unit. Now like a

699
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,239
sign to it, but crash had like city wide jurisdiction.

700
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,679
Like a lot of these guys had been actively gang banging,

701
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,480
like before they you know, went to the police Academy

702
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:19,199
l A. PD knew that and they did like vet

703
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,920
these guys somewhat, but obviously came in, you know, they

704
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,719
ran into problems. One of the things that blew the

705
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,480
fucking lid off of a rampart scandal is like one

706
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:31,960
of the one of those dudes who was affiliated with

707
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:35,039
death Row Records was like one of their security operatives.

708
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,199
He was he was an act. He was an active

709
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,239
LAPD cop. He got into a shootout with some other

710
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,320
off duty cop over like this over some traffic bullshits

711
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,119
and dude died. Like whoever he was throwing shots at

712
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:52,639
like you know, returned fire and killed him. And uh,

713
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,559
dude calls it in, you know, the other off duty

714
00:47:55,639 --> 00:47:57,840
cops like yeah, like you know, I has killed this

715
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,280
guy who like you know, started squeezing rounds off like

716
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,360
lo and behold in, this guy's a cop. He like

717
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,440
works for death Row. He's clicked up with the you know,

718
00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:10,719
the same set that like Suge Knight and all them

719
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,199
guys were. But that but that came about, like IP

720
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:15,880
tried to play it off like all this guy was

721
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,239
on bad Apple loosetle through the cracks, you know, and

722
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,960
unfortunately a lot of young guys from South central you

723
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,039
know or insane with into that that life and are

724
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,559
thugging it. No, that's that's not what happened, man, Like

725
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,679
they like they like the whole thing would crash. Was

726
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,559
that a lot of the guys were on record that

727
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,320
like a lot of their a lot of their officers

728
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,440
like on record with like different mobs. That's one of

729
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,960
the reasons why they were feared, you know. But that, uh,

730
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,159
that's one of the reasons too. Interestingly, also, you know,

731
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:51,519
like the Compton Police Department no longer exists, and they

732
00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:54,480
were they were like a heavy squad man like, they

733
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:58,400
were very tough, but they they were kind of like

734
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,719
a micro cosm of you know this, they had their

735
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,119
own culture because and I mean they were you know,

736
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:07,320
they were their own police department. But they I think

737
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,960
now common is police bial county sheriffs, like like the

738
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,880
the so call fellas will correct me, but I think

739
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,719
that to his jurisdiction. But they it was like the

740
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,599
same institutional sensibility and Compton like in a scaled down way,

741
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,800
but like Chicago was different. Like uh, like Chicago was

742
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,199
done like like a thug police department and still is

743
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,000
in a lot of ways, but like they did stuff differently,

744
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,239
you know, and it was like the big the kind

745
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,840
of share punk of Chicago police was like the Red

746
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:45,840
Squad which endured until the eighties, you know, but they uh,

747
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,440
it was just different. But the it uh and less

748
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,159
like overtly paramilitary. I guess that's like part of it.

749
00:49:55,679 --> 00:49:57,760
Like Chicago PD. The era is kind of like a

750
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,440
mowie thief, like the way the way those guys their

751
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,280
relationship to the outfit and kind of just like the

752
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,440
way they do things. It's like it's like low key

753
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:12,000
whatever presence, you know, it's a it was a different

754
00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:17,280
kind of sensibility, but you know that was the big thing. Uh,

755
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,800
my big memory of Gates, you know whatever, Like I said,

756
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:24,719
growing up when I when I'd be in Sokill, like

757
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,320
you know, Gates was on TV a lot, and and

758
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:30,920
then like a lot of like kind of mainstream like

759
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:33,679
right wing guys like love Darryl Gates. There's even a

760
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,480
video game. You remember, you remember Sierras Systems that there's

761
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:40,159
those those kings Quest games. Okay, there was there was

762
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,000
kings Quest, there was Space Quest. Well there was Darryl

763
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:46,599
Gates Police Quest form like the Apple two C. And

764
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:48,719
I remember like a friend of mine, like junior high,

765
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,440
he like gave me like a copy of it, let

766
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,159
me borrow it or something, and uh yeah, like Darryl

767
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,199
Gates is like the only police, big police you in America.

768
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,280
We had like his face in a freaking video game.

769
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,039
But uh, but people, there's a there's a bunch of

770
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:07,960
like I remember fools like Martin Downey Junior like loved

771
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,039
Darryl Gates. But then the other side, I know he was,

772
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:14,480
uh he was like this hate figure for for for

773
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:18,159
liberals and stuff. But I remember when poor Reginald Denny

774
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,880
got moved on by them people in South Central. It

775
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,760
was the truck driver got pulled out of his pulled

776
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,840
out of his truck, and and and and beating it

777
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,280
into his life. You know, his skull fractures. There's a

778
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,800
horrible case. Gates personally arrested, served the warrants on those suspects,

779
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:40,679
and he was in like full riot gear. It seemed

780
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:42,639
tasteless to me. It's like, Okay, first of all, it's

781
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:46,079
not a role appropriate for a fucking police chief. Like Secondly,

782
00:51:46,119 --> 00:51:48,679
it's like you're using this poor guy's victimization as some

783
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,079
flex like get out of here, man. It's it really

784
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:56,320
rubbed me the wrong way. You know, those are those

785
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:02,079
are very bad times. But but Gates, you know, he

786
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,960
also one of the things that emphathize to people about

787
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:10,760
the about the OJ Simpson case is that the state

788
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,360
deserve to lose that case. You're not just like entitled

789
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,280
to a verdict when you can't when when you know,

790
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:20,599
when when you can't account for the chain of custody

791
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,280
of your evidence, you know, when you've got like literal

792
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,079
clowns like uh like Chris Dard and Marcia clarkheading up

793
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:31,400
your proscatorial team. But the whole like people also don't

794
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,400
understand and some of the jurors attested to this. You know,

795
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,239
Mark Furman is a total fucking weirdo, like like a

796
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,320
total weirdo, and like it's not everybody's like oh people

797
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,079
just people just acquitted OJ because of racism. That's not

798
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,239
really what put people off about Furman. I mean, yeah,

799
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,239
that didn't help any I'm sure with some of those

800
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,320
jurors were like ignorant people who were like, oh, he

801
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,079
said the N word, but the context of how those

802
00:52:56,119 --> 00:52:59,880
tapes came about were bizarre. Furman was a compulsive liar.

803
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,840
He was a stolen valor case. Like he lied about

804
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,159
being like under fire and nom and like like all

805
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,280
these shit. The dude, it's a fucking psycho, you know,

806
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,280
like that's the real issue with him, And it was

807
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:17,800
pretty obvious he and van at Are they basically framed

808
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,199
a guilty guy because that's just like what they did.

809
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,159
And this is like what LAPD did. You show up

810
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:26,039
on the scene, you decide how to you know, you

811
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,320
can fabulate a narrative about how you came upon the

812
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,119
inculblatory evidence. Then you kind of just like arrange it

813
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:35,239
whoever you want. And that's like what you put on record,

814
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:39,679
as you know, and as to what becomes the case

815
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,039
in chief. And I've had guys say to me, oh,

816
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:46,360
all police departments did that, and I'm like, no they didn't. Man, Like,

817
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,840
that's really nuts and really screwy. You know, that's a

818
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,039
screwy way to do it, and and unnecessary. You know,

819
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:59,480
like if they if they played that straight from from jump,

820
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,960
they would have gotten their conviction. But I mean everything

821
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,639
about it was like goofy man. And then and then OJ,

822
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:10,480
he's an armed man, he's wanted for multiple murder. He's

823
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:12,760
traveling at a high rate of speed to the airport.

824
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,239
If I do that, I get shot in the face

825
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,599
immediately by like swat OJ. They're like calling him on

826
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,719
his cell phone, like politely asking him to turn himself in.

827
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:26,119
So it's on the one hand, you're like framing a

828
00:54:26,199 --> 00:54:28,880
guilty guy. We don't need to. But then instead of

829
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,599
like throwing the bracelets on him when he's when he

830
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:34,119
when he's when he's wanted for double murder, you're like

831
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,519
calling him and asking him to come by like at

832
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:39,400
the traffic tickets. I mean, this is this is real dysfunction,

833
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,039
you know, Like and it's and that that's one hundred

834
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:49,679
percent the fault of the internal leadership cadre of l

835
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,960
APD is not like God being liberals, like ruining police

836
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,400
work like they did a lot of this ship to themselves,

837
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,679
you know, and having uh and having and having dudes

838
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,000
or on record like with the crips or whatever, like

839
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:06,920
actively gang banging like in l A p D when

840
00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:09,440
and and it being like totally above board that they're

841
00:55:09,519 --> 00:55:12,920
gang bangers. But it's okay because this is part of

842
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,599
how we this is there's a part of how we

843
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:20,519
you know, we maintain our our high level of police intelligence.

844
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,119
These are the are four. I mean, that's that's totally

845
00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:26,840
insane and you can't you can't put that on like

846
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,199
the enemies of law and order like that that came

847
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:34,519
from INSIDELLIT PV man. But yeah, we're coming up on

848
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:37,679
the hour, I think, man, let's let's call it. I'll

849
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,960
do a part three on Joseph Wamba and if you

850
00:55:41,079 --> 00:55:45,480
want me to or if if you yeah, okay, part

851
00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:48,840
will cover Yeah, we'll cover the onion field in Joseph Wambas.

852
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,000
I think that that's important stuff. But yeah, I don't see.

853
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there were nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty nine

854
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,760
there were race riots in Miami. I mean I lived

855
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,039
in Miami for you know, I live in South Florida

856
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,559
because of police shootings and and and things. It was,

857
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,719
I mean, these were precursors to the to what happened

858
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,239
in l A. And they were bad overtown riots and

859
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,119
eighty nine I was. I was down there for that

860
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:14,679
and there was.

861
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:18,159
Speaker 2: No joking man, nuts man, Yeah, no, I remember it was.

862
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,079
It was. It was scary ship. Oh it was.

863
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,639
Speaker 1: It was open combat in the streets. It was open streets.

864
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. What in Miami too, because the cartel ship and

865
00:56:30,119 --> 00:56:32,880
other stuff. There's like a ton of fucking hardware on

866
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,800
the street in Miami, man, Like everybody like teeth, I mean,

867
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,559
dudes like shooting it out with like.

868
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,599
Speaker 1: Like literally mac Ten's were like two hundred bucks.

869
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah crazy yeah. No, Miami is

870
00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:55,360
no joke, man, And especially then, Yeah, you've been over

871
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,239
the South, man, Like that's that's fascinating.

872
00:57:01,079 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: South Florida back in the eighties. Cocaine cowboys. It was

873
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,079
bodies dropping everywhere everywhere.

874
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,079
Speaker 2: It was like, uh yeah, it was. It was like

875
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:15,920
low intensity and sometimes not the low intensity warfare man. No,

876
00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:19,760
My Miami Dade the police department was a serious police

877
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:24,679
Department too. Man, Like, yeah, no doubt, that's fascinating stuff. Man,

878
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,559
Florida the fantastating state. Man, and people like throw shade

879
00:57:27,639 --> 00:57:30,719
on it, you know, like Florida man. And it's become

880
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,119
like a meme. I mean, and it's got kind of

881
00:57:34,159 --> 00:57:37,119
a crazy history going back. It's something like the Black Seminoles.

882
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,280
Like you realize the Black Seminoles. It was like it

883
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,679
was like outlaw white dudes on the run. It was

884
00:57:42,719 --> 00:57:47,719
like runaway slaves, like Indian braves who had been like

885
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,000
cast out of their tribe whatever, like the king. This

886
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:52,039
kind of like mad Max sort of mob. That's what

887
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:53,239
the Black Seminoles were.

888
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: It was like Florida's Florida has always been insane. I mean,

889
00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:01,880
they never rendered in the war and like they know

890
00:58:02,199 --> 00:58:04,719
and and DC was like, oh, we don't care, We'll

891
00:58:05,199 --> 00:58:05,519
leave them.

892
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah no, it's it's an insane place. And yeah, yeah,

893
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:14,239
now that's wild. But yeah no, Well we'll do a

894
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,079
part three then and Wamba and specifically the Onion Field

895
00:58:18,159 --> 00:58:21,320
and some of his other stuff, and we'll get into

896
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,119
like the Vietnam War and the OPD culture because they

897
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,079
were inextricably bound up. But no, this was I'm going.

898
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:31,760
I'm going to the inauguration in DC on Saturday, but

899
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,159
all would all want to be gone a few days,

900
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,239
like back in the twenty second. But if you want

901
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,800
to bang another one out before we go, or if

902
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,760
you want to do like movie night, we could do

903
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,280
that too, Or if you want to wait till I

904
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:42,159
get bag, that's fine.

905
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,519
Speaker 1: But well, yeah, we'll talk, we'll talk about it. I'll

906
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:48,159
text to you later, do quick plugs and we'll get

907
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:50,079
out of here. I gotta go do an o GC meeting.

908
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, sir, yeah, best way if to find he's

909
00:58:53,559 --> 00:58:56,440
on substick. We'll launch the season three of the pod

910
00:58:56,719 --> 00:58:59,800
in February. But there's all kinds of good stuff there,

911
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,840
including a pretty active chat. It's real Thomas seven seven

912
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,800
seven dot substick dot com. I'm on social media at

913
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:11,360
Capital R E A L underscore number seven h O

914
00:59:11,519 --> 00:59:17,880
A S seven seven seven. I'm on uh Instagram, I'm

915
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:22,480
on t gram. You can find on my website Thomas

916
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:25,519
seven seven seven dot com. It's at number seven and

917
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:27,960
move a T h O M A S seven seven

918
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:29,639
seven dot com. That's all I get.

919
00:59:30,639 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: All right, thank you have. Let's try and record something

920
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,599
before you leave. But if not, have fun.

921
00:59:36,519 --> 00:59:38,039
Speaker 2: Yeah no we will, man, Thank you any