WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.599 It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.720 S e O and JP sorrows He's a lapsed fan. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.160 In all my years and wrestling, I've never seen anything like. 4 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:18.120 Rop kicking. 5 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:23.640 It's the laps Fan Man number one in the ring 6 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:24.920 begin about. 7 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.120 Osada, a real king of swing when the bell. 8 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:29.800 Goes hang and a kick like me throming in the 9 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:33.039 corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King can 10 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:35.880 say off the crown nodded in his head like Steve 11 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.520 low Brown? 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:38.079 Would you get low down for me? 13 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:39.200 Go even high up? 14 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:40.359 Trip you on your head? 15 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:41.679 But you no cool drivel? 16 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:45.079 You speaking monology and dragon slits fire if you more 17 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.320 shot than the edge retires dropping more truth than the 18 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.119 conn of sniper unless you would a coconut Roddy Piper out, 19 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.719 Jack and JP, you a j wat d drop a 20 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.200 cupcakes and got the brain Bob Beans The best podcast 21 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.159 from start the close File of Your Benefits fas ticket Polls. 22 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:05.920 Last time we were with listeners, we of course were 23 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.959 looking at the first Saturday Night's main event from nineteen 24 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.760 eighty five, and we were really interested to see that 25 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:13.280 in the credit role at the end that they identified 26 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:17.079 the designer of the Saturday Night's Main Event logo, which 27 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:18.959 as we know, is fairly iconic. 28 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.359 Totally, I mean, it's it's one of the most. 29 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.079 I mean they still basically used to this day a 30 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:27.319 variation of the of the same logo today. 31 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:29.519 Right, and it's back on the table, of course, is 32 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.359 the WWET Saturday Night's Main Event going again. But you know, 33 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:35.879 the thought process was, man, what what what would it 34 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:37.879 be like to have, you know, worked for WWF in 35 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:41.159 a graphic design capacity at this point because so much 36 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.680 of the logos and things that were generated around this 37 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:48.280 early boom period for the company still like the Saturday 38 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:50.439 Night's Main Event logo and WrestleMania and other things that 39 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:53.319 they they're still around today and pretty much substantially the 40 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.760 same form, and so you know, it's like, what what 41 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.799 what can we know? What can we find out about 42 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:00.400 what it was like to design it the point we 43 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.560 saw that his name was Brian Penry, and yeah, we 44 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.680 got him like we do, like we do. We have 45 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.560 found Brian Penry, the designer, as we'll get into, of 46 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:15.120 so many iconic WWF logos that we all associate with 47 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.479 the glory days of the company and the product and 48 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:21.080 we're really pleased to welcome Brian Now onto the show 49 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.000 for a special two part conversation about his life and 50 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:26.960 times in the mid to late eighties with the World 51 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.240 Wrestling Federation. Brian, it's really great to have you. Thanks 52 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:29.840 for joining us. 53 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:32.039 Thanks guys, it's my pleasure. 54 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.280 Let's start right there with Saturday Night's main event. We'll 55 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.680 get into a whole heck of a lot of the 56 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.919 things that you've done for the WWF in the course 57 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.039 of this two part conversation, but would like to start 58 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.800 with that one, the Saturday Night's made event logo. It's back, 59 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:47.479 you know, and in fact the show has a whole 60 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.599 throwback theme to it the way they're structuring it these days. 61 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.680 What about that piece of work to get us started 62 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:55.360 here that you recall. 63 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.039 Well, you know, I was there from. 64 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:02.319 The mid. 65 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:07.080 Nineteen eighty four to mid nineteen eighty seven. It was 66 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.960 a fear stretch and I had worked with Vincent Linda 67 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.439 prior to that. But I got to tell you, in 68 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:21.039 all honesty that that whole period was a hyper drive blury. 69 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.199 And I don't just say this like, oh, I was working. 70 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:26.479 Like a dog. 71 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:30.840 Everybody everybody worked like a dog, and many of us 72 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:35.360 were in there quite often seven days a week in 73 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:42.159 the office at that point, various offices in Greenwich and Stanford, Connecticut. 74 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:44.919 And it was I can come back to this later, 75 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.639 but you know, they outgrew three offices. They were building 76 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.919 office buildings because the staff grew so fast, and by 77 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:58.879 the time each one was built, the staff had outgrown it. 78 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:03.919 It was. And the fourth time out, Vince just threw 79 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.000 up his hands and rented office space on Summer Street 80 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:12.400 in Stamford. And finally they wound up with the building 81 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.360 off of exit nine off of Route ninety five, the 82 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:20.800 big black, kind of big structure with now the you know, 83 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:27.480 the WWE so called pirate flag. And but I mean, 84 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:33.439 just through this whole period, to be perfectly honest, that 85 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:38.079 logo and I'm I'm honored that it's become. 86 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:38.240 As I. 87 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.519 But I gotta tell you, it was just kind of 88 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:50.720 like this was typical, okay with Dick et Brisol and NBC. 89 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.040 We're doing this, we're doing that. We need the logo 90 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:57.600 four days ago, right, I mean that are for the course. 91 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.600 And so I if I sit here, I tell you, oh, 92 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.079 you know, I went through these commotions and shenanigans and yeah, 93 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.959 I was a process and I spoke to none of that. 94 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.759 I just banged it out. I just banged it out, 95 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:13.120 and it'd be perfectly honest with you. I wasn't crazy. 96 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.040 I thought it's okay, but I mean, I wasn't proud 97 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.839 of it, and it was just one of fifty things 98 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.240 on came across my desk or my drawing board more 99 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:32.439 accurately daily, And I'm I'm you. You actually educated me 100 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.920 to the fact that it's back right right, don't you know. 101 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:40.519 I've worked on so many things since my tenure with 102 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:45.759 the WWF that this was news to me. It's great, 103 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.560 it's kind of cool, but it's one of the last 104 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:51.879 things I ever worked on. I would have thought I 105 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.560 had a radioactive half life and would show up, you know, 106 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:56.519 decades later. 107 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.680 So who knows radioactive half let it's good way to 108 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.680 put it by you mentioned Dick Ebersoll and bosses. As 109 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:04.560 the listeners know, we've spent a lot of time wondering 110 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.399 what it was like, Yeah, to be around Dick Ebersol 111 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:09.399 at a time when he had such massive influence over 112 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.120 the direction Vince would take the WWF, and really is 113 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:16.199 such a I think underdiscovered part of WWF history is 114 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:19.399 Dick Eversoll's role in things. Brian, I know you're in 115 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.839 the room occasionally with Dick. Can you kind of give 116 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:23.800 us a sense of what it was like to work 117 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:25.639 in and around him as in nineteen eighty five as 118 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:28.680 he takes a keen interest in pro wrestling in the WWF. 119 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:31.199 I just want to interject one thing too, especially because 120 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.199 you were there before as well, Like, there's such a 121 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.040 shift in I imagine a shift in dynamic between you know, 122 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:40.720 working in eighty four and then all of a sudden 123 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.160 in eighty five Dick Eversol comes in that too. 124 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:45.519 Was just I was curious about that. 125 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:52.560 Well, yeah, I mean honestly and truly, my relationship with 126 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.399 with Vince Solenda goes back to the late seventies and 127 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:02.079 there's a story right there. But just and I'd like 128 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:03.920 to come back to that and flesh out how we 129 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:07.480 of course we met and so on and so forth 130 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:12.000 and everything evolved into that creative director role with them. 131 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:16.720 But yeah, Dick, Dick, you know it was it was 132 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:22.920 really kind of a funny deal we all, uh I 133 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:30.120 say we meaning the WWF staff. It's very interesting. Vince 134 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:37.040 was insightful from the standpoint of recognizing that he's out 135 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:44.600 now courting network brass at major companies TV networks, and 136 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.959 this was this was the infancy of cable, never mind 137 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:52.160 streaming that we have now, and he's speaking to very 138 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:56.480 powerful executive types that are suit and tie dudes from 139 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:00.680 the ground up, and he just I don't know if 140 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:06.720 there was something that that a particular incident that inspired 141 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:10.240 this or something, but he put out an ed act 142 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.040 pretty quickly around the office that he wanted everyone in 143 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.920 suit and tie. Wow, it was wasn't I mean just 144 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.680 a sports jacket or something at very least a tie. 145 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:23.639 And he wanted the women that worked for the company 146 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:27.759 to be, you know, nicely dressed, no jeans, you know, pants, 147 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:33.799 suits whatever. He just he just wanted to exude professionalism 148 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.039 and he wanted to you know, they were they were 149 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.399 dealing with big banks on their finances. He wanted a 150 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.759 banker to walk in and I think you know it 151 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:47.759 was a hippie enclave or something, or you know, guys 152 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.279 dealing with wrestling. You know, you didn't want somebody to 153 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:53.000 have a beer belly and walk by with a beer 154 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:55.159 can in their hand or something. That's an overstatement, but 155 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.639 he wanted to project a very very professional image and 156 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.799 in a very predictable way, you know, not nothing, just 157 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.120 just he didn't want to look like a bunch of slabs, 158 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:16.200 you know, and one could hardly call Dick ever saw 159 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.840 a slab. But I mean he's he was this sort 160 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:24.879 of cool guy. You know, he's he's a successful television exec. 161 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:27.960 He really made his mark in sports with NBC. As 162 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.960 you probably know, he was responsible for at least three 163 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.679 Olympics games. I mean, he put NBC on the map 164 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:40.120 where sports are concerned, and that was that was really 165 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.679 his home base, having built that part of the NBC 166 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.159 television network. And I mean to that to this day 167 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:54.960 that that is a huge part of his Uh how 168 00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:00.399 do how do I put it? You know, he he 169 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.080 he made his mark, he could do what he wants. 170 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.000 Yeah, that kind of guy. 171 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:10.240 And so he shows up. I happened to be coming 172 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.360 back in the office from an appointment somewhere, and this 173 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:17.039 guy pulls in in this cherry red Porsche Targa that 174 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.840 you know just you know, tricked out to the max 175 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.320 and Dick gets a very tall guy and uh, you know, 176 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:29.679 I think I think that first time, you know, he 177 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:32.440 had some kind of funky loafers on it would be 178 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.559 that or cowboy boots and and he always had a 179 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:41.200 designer sweater, a bore, you know, hinos. He looked like 180 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:47.480 like uh cash dude and successful TV executive and I 181 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:52.120 mean there was there was nothing to complain about. The 182 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.399 guy was, you know, clean and slick, and that was that. 183 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:00.159 So we've had this first production meeting where where Dick 184 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:05.600 explaining what his vision is for putting shows together, and 185 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.679 Vince is sort of meeting him at every other comment 186 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:12.519 with with with his vision of how he sees the 187 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:17.919 wrestlers being portrayed, et cetera, et cetera. And the meeting, 188 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.399 it's a very small meeting. I think Nelson Schregler was there, 189 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.759 as I recall, who was head of TV programming for 190 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:30.639 Vince and Vince. Nelson was old school, he was I 191 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.320 think he had one sport jacket, this red bear navy 192 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:40.600 blazer and you always wore this one blazer and gray 193 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.919 trousers and we all joked he probably had a closet 194 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:47.960 full of sixteen blue blazers and sixteen bears a gray 195 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.879 slacks at all. And Nelson was a great guy, very 196 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.360 mild battered, you know, quiet, sort of sense of humor, 197 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:01.320 easygoing guy. And I was there, and Steve Taylor, the 198 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.600 WWF photographer who was quite often on the road. He 199 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:08.440 spent his life on the road. Basically, he was on 200 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:11.679 the in the office maybe a day a week, or 201 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:13.919 sometimes a day or two every two weeks when he 202 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:18.399 was going overseas and so forth with the boys. And 203 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:21.600 it was a really small grouping, and it was a 204 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:27.080 great meeting. And then just out of the blue, then 205 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:32.559 says to Dick, Dick, you may have noticed that my 206 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:39.080 staff is all in suit. Do this is because I 207 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.120 want to exude a very professional image. I'm sure you understand, 208 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.120 and I don't want to have any of my people 209 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.960 feel as though this is a constraint that I impose 210 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:54.279 on them only. And he said, listen, I'm just going 211 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.720 to ask you, would you mind if if you just 212 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.120 the next time we meet, and whenever you come to 213 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.960 our offices, you mind just at very least wearing a 214 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:06.960 tie jacket. And Steve and I looked at each other 215 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:08.600 and it was all we could do not to just 216 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:12.240 burst out laughing, like, Okay, Vince is just busting this 217 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:18.960 guy's balls. This cannot be real. Here's this accomplished TV 218 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.759 executive on top of the world. He's probably one of 219 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.840 a handful of the most valuable people that NBC has 220 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:31.200 in their ranks. And Vince is asking him to dress 221 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.799 up when he comes to the office, and we're like, 222 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:38.039 he could have kiddened me, and it did. Just he 223 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.720 did one of those things where his mouth was sort 224 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.840 of moving in slow motion but nothing was coming out, 225 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.159 you know, like he's processing this, and then it sort 226 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:54.519 of sputtered a little bit. Well, Vince, so well, I 227 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.080 know what should mean, and you could tell he was 228 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.720 just frothing around and something like are you kidding me? So, 229 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.919 But the long and the short of it is he 230 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.960 didn't really answered the question. He just said, well, we 231 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:13.080 have a lot on our players, so let's get you know, 232 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.320 we'll be in touch by people with her people and 233 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:20.600 all those things, and so Nelson was just Nelson didn't 234 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.200 say a word. Nelson's walking down the hall, he's. 235 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.519 He's got that silly grin on his face and he's 236 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.159 just shaking his head like I can't believe it's did that, 237 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.840 and we're all hoping it didn't blow the deal, because 238 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.960 why would you need to even bring something up like that? 239 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.200 You know, and but Steve and I we went down 240 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:43.960 to the coffee room when we're just howling like, Wow, 241 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.399 I can't I just I can't wait to see what 242 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.759 Dick comes back. Right, So the next time he comes, 243 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:59.000 he's in a full suit, wow, and no designer sweater. 244 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.799 He's wearing it high and then he kind of softened it. 245 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.799 And then from there it was like a sport code. 246 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.240 And then I think way down the road six eight 247 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.960 months later, if he came for meeting and at that 248 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.240 point people were going into New York more, that was 249 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:15.639 sort of the that was that was the opening salvo 250 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.720 when he came to see Vince. That was sort of like, 251 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:24.480 you know, the mountain going to Mohammed. So it was interesting. 252 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.279 But but he played the game. And you know, what 253 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:34.159 we took away from the whole thing was wrestling and 254 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:38.679 what Vince had to offer was so important and so 255 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:44.519 critical to their programming. He was willing to be, you know, politely, 256 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.000 pushed around a little and told what to wear. That 257 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:50.720 just blew our minds. That absolutely blew our minds. And 258 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:57.159 that Vince had you know, the gall the Scandinos asks 259 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:05.639 who's already accomplished to do something kind of weird like that, 260 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:10.440 you know, but that was Vince and he called the 261 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.320 shots and the guy did it. He dressed like he 262 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.360 asked him to do, so, you know, his his own 263 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.679 people wouldn't feel like they were being asked to dress 264 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.240 up for no good reason. It was a real interesting 265 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.639 sort of character study on you know, pushing the boundaries 266 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:28.480 with somebody to see what you can get away with. 267 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:32.399 It was just crazy and Vince, I don't know people 268 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.559 know this or not. I meant to say Dick. His 269 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.639 wife is Susan Saint James, Uh, the actress, and she 270 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.399 already had you know, she was a big deal in Hollywood. 271 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.240 She was the star of the villain and wife with 272 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:50.360 Rock Hudson. Uh. She was a star in her own right. 273 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:57.519 And you know, pretty almost immediately Vince and Linda and 274 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:02.399 Susan and Dick were pals and you know, going out 275 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.119 to dinner together and Vince it just sort of paved 276 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:13.279 his way into essentially, you know, the television world, Hollywood society. 277 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.440 Was just kind of fascinating to watch this happen in 278 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.200 real time with people that you know and work with. 279 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:24.880 It was it was just it was all very interesting. 280 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.640 So anyway, very good Well, that's a that's a great 281 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.920 snapshot of the time period, and you have exactly as 282 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.119 you're saying, you have a a dialogue going on about 283 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.559 how to newly present these wrestlers with you know, Dick 284 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:41.880 Eversol's experience in television being kind of layered on top 285 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:44.839 of Vince's instincts, and Vince isn't afraid to uh to 286 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.440 draw distinctions around his level of power in the deal 287 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.599 and that continued to be a relationship that flourished for years. Well, 288 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:55.359 let's talk about how you first got in the door 289 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.680 over there, Brian. How did you become the WWFS creative director. 290 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:04.440 Well, I started and it all started in probably the 291 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:09.200 most unlikely place on earth. Kip cod. 292 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:12.480 Sure, that's where he was. That's where he started so 293 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:13.680 many of his enterprises. 294 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:23.440 Well, it was really interesting. I'm I'm basically a graphic designer, illustrator, 295 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.960 a copywriter guy. And I started in ad agencies in 296 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.480 Boston when I was in my early twenties in the 297 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:35.960 early seventies, and you know, I had built up a 298 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:41.000 pretty decent clientele and worked my tail off and I 299 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:45.440 had a I found one thing and another there was 300 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.319 a printer I was doing a lot of work with 301 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.480 based in Hyennas, and I found an apartment I liked 302 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.119 in Yarmouth Port, this great little town on the on 303 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.680 the Bay side of the Cape. And for your listeners 304 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:04.000 who grew up in I've lived around Boston. WBCN was 305 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.799 probably one of the leading all rocks stations. Oh yeah, 306 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:13.240 classic rock in the sixties, late sixties, early seventies right 307 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:18.279 right through for some time after that. But I designed 308 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.799 that WWF logo. I mean, it's not what am I saying, 309 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:27.359 the WBCN logo. It's like a chrome kind of little treatment. 310 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.759 And that was on bumper stickers for ten years or more. 311 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:34.119 But that was one of my designs. And Christmas Tree 312 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.920 Shops logo, Boston Lobsters and Worldness was around, so I 313 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:43.519 had a good footprint. I couldn't establish my designer. And 314 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.200 I was this crazy, you know, twenty something guy running 315 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:50.720 around having fun and working my tailoff, but having plenty 316 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:56.000 of fun. And so one day I get this call. 317 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.640 I'm in my studio in the Armouth Port and a 318 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.839 woman named Linda McMahon calls and introduces herself. It's very 319 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:10.359 professional and she and her husband, Vince had just bought 320 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.880 the Cape Cod Coliseum out of receivership. The place had 321 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.319 struggled for years. It was about an eight thousand seat 322 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:25.480 venue and it had had rough times and they bought 323 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:29.640 it out cash, and she just told me a matter 324 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.119 of factly what the deal was. And they needed a logo, 325 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.839 and they'd found me in the Yellow Pages. You remember 326 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.359 those things that kids sat on when they couldn't fit 327 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.720 in their high chairs. Nobody used them for anything else 328 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.799 but that dad worked that I had in there. And 329 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.720 so they made an appointment to come by and chat 330 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.240 and see some of my works, all my portfolio, et cetera, 331 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:55.599 et cetera. So the day they came the door to 332 00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:01.000 my it's sort of like Whener would come in the 333 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.680 door on Seinfeld. The door to my studio is buying, 334 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:10.640 and there's and and I'm just I just my jaw 335 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.880 sort of drop because it's a big guy. But he's 336 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:22.880 wearing a three piece pink plaid. Yes, I'm thinking, okay, 337 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.599 but this isn't like pinky lead. This isn't some slapstick. 338 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:33.039 It's obviously, you know, an Italian cut, nicely made suit. 339 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.039 It's a little bit loud, but you know, that's that's 340 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:42.160 what Vin's like to wear. So it was just kind 341 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:46.519 of crazy. And and you know on his heels is Linda, 342 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:50.079 and she's dressed to the nines, you know, very very gracious, 343 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:55.279 very elegant. And I mean you have to remember, you 344 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:58.039 can't get on the Cape if you're not wearing boat shoes. 345 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:04.519 And you know, you know, it's very casual polo shirt, 346 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.279 you know, shorts, and I think I was in jeans 347 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.240 and a T shirt or something. That's just a way 348 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.039 of life, you know. It's sort of like being somewhere 349 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.480 on a beach in Florida or something, and they just 350 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:21.720 they look like a million bucks, but they look like 351 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:24.759 they belonged at some gala in Boston or New York. 352 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.519 So it was it was just sort of out of context. 353 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.400 It was funny, and they looked at my work, they 354 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.480 liked my work. They hired me to do the logo, 355 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.920 and it was kind of nothing beyond that. And I 356 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.599 remember this is back in the mid I'd say, this 357 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.680 is like, I can't honestly recall I'm going to say 358 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.480 seventy six, seventy seven, somewhere in there is when bos 359 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.319 Gags was hot and his album Silk Degrees won a Grammy. 360 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.880 I mean, this guy was hot. He was a big deal. 361 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.839 So what has Vin? He gets Boz gags at this 362 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.680 at the cape Cod Coliseum, which has been you know, 363 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.000 the Loserville Railroad forever, and he turns this place around 364 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:16.079 instantly and gets the hottest guy you know in music 365 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:20.599 playing there. You know, you must have had a tour 366 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.720 date fall apart or something happened that was already booked 367 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.079 and they got him at the last minute. But all 368 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.680 of a sudden, he's got you know, a less bands 369 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.160 and performers in the cape Cod Coliseum all of a sudden, 370 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.279 it's a legit place. So he had the golden touch. 371 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.400 And I learned later that he actually had an interest 372 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.519 in the Worcester Centrum, So I mean he knew his 373 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:51.039 way around the event venue facility world, and I really 374 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.119 didn't know much about the wrestling. And we became friends. 375 00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:58.839 We would go out for a drink and a cocktail, 376 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:04.640 which is another you know institution on Cape Cod. He 377 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.960 expected him morning, noon and night. No I'm kidding, but 378 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.039 not really. But I the fun thing Vince Vince used 379 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:19.119 to he just made going out for cocktails. Really. He 380 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:25.319 would call up and say it's time for a tall one. Yes, 381 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:30.000 he's really tall. Tumblers full of you know, typically vodka, 382 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.799 and we would just have a blast and he was 383 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.759 he was a funny guy. Linda was great. We just 384 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:42.880 had a great time and that was that. And you know, uh, 385 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.440 Actually a few years went by and I heard brumblings 386 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.640 about the wrestling and I didn't I really wasn't intimately 387 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.400 familiar with what all they were doing. And then I 388 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:57.839 started getting calls from both Linda and Vince and they said, look, 389 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:02.599 we're you know. The explained that Vince's dad had been 390 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:06.319 in the business for years, and it made me recall 391 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.359 when I was a kid. I actually was raised in California, 392 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:13.920 and I remember watching shows that originated at the Cow 393 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:20.480 Palace in San Francisco, and you know, the original Chic 394 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.200 and Haystack Calhoun. I mean, real old timers like that 395 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:28.680 who I was watching when I was seven or eight, 396 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.839 and it occurred to me, holy crap, Vince's dad put 397 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.920 those shows together. So it was like this weird string 398 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:41.079 of occurrences that had been going on forever that I 399 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.319 just knew of in a certain perspective as a kid, 400 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.839 and now I was realizing, wow, that this is becoming 401 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.759