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Speaker 1: It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn

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S e O and JP sorrows He's a lapsed fan.

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In all my years and wrestling, I've never seen anything like.

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Speaker 2: Rop kicking.

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Speaker 3: It's the laps Fan Man number one in the ring

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begin about.

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Speaker 4: Osada, a real king of swing when the bell.

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Speaker 3: Goes hang and a kick like me throming in the

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corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King can

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say off the crown nodded in his head like Steve

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low Brown?

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Speaker 1: Would you get low down for me?

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Speaker 3: Go even high up?

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Speaker 2: Trip you on your head?

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Speaker 4: But you no cool drivel?

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Speaker 3: You speaking monology and dragon slits fire if you more

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shot than the edge retires dropping more truth than the

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conn of sniper unless you would a coconut Roddy Piper out,

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Jack and JP, you a j wat d drop a

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cupcakes and got the brain Bob Beans The best podcast

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from start the close File of Your Benefits fas ticket Polls.

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Speaker 5: Last time we were with listeners, we of course were

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looking at the first Saturday Night's main event from nineteen

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eighty five, and we were really interested to see that

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in the credit role at the end that they identified

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the designer of the Saturday Night's Main Event logo, which

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as we know, is fairly iconic.

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Speaker 2: Totally, I mean, it's it's one of the most.

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Speaker 6: I mean they still basically used to this day a

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variation of the of the same logo today.

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Speaker 5: Right, and it's back on the table, of course, is

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the WWET Saturday Night's Main Event going again. But you know,

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the thought process was, man, what what what would it

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be like to have, you know, worked for WWF in

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a graphic design capacity at this point because so much

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of the logos and things that were generated around this

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early boom period for the company still like the Saturday

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Night's Main Event logo and WrestleMania and other things that

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they they're still around today and pretty much substantially the

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same form, and so you know, it's like, what what

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what can we know? What can we find out about

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what it was like to design it the point we

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saw that his name was Brian Penry, and yeah, we

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got him like we do, like we do. We have

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found Brian Penry, the designer, as we'll get into, of

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so many iconic WWF logos that we all associate with

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the glory days of the company and the product and

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we're really pleased to welcome Brian Now onto the show

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for a special two part conversation about his life and

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times in the mid to late eighties with the World

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Wrestling Federation. Brian, it's really great to have you. Thanks

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for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Thanks guys, it's my pleasure.

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Speaker 5: Let's start right there with Saturday Night's main event. We'll

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get into a whole heck of a lot of the

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things that you've done for the WWF in the course

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of this two part conversation, but would like to start

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with that one, the Saturday Night's made event logo. It's back,

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you know, and in fact the show has a whole

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throwback theme to it the way they're structuring it these days.

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What about that piece of work to get us started

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here that you recall.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I was there from.

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Speaker 7: The mid.

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Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty four to mid nineteen eighty seven. It was

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a fear stretch and I had worked with Vincent Linda

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prior to that. But I got to tell you, in

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all honesty that that whole period was a hyper drive blury.

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And I don't just say this like, oh, I was working.

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Speaker 2: Like a dog.

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Speaker 4: Everybody everybody worked like a dog, and many of us

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were in there quite often seven days a week in

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the office at that point, various offices in Greenwich and Stanford, Connecticut.

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And it was I can come back to this later,

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but you know, they outgrew three offices. They were building

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office buildings because the staff grew so fast, and by

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the time each one was built, the staff had outgrown it.

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It was. And the fourth time out, Vince just threw

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up his hands and rented office space on Summer Street

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in Stamford. And finally they wound up with the building

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off of exit nine off of Route ninety five, the

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big black, kind of big structure with now the you know,

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the WWE so called pirate flag. And but I mean,

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just through this whole period, to be perfectly honest, that

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logo and I'm I'm honored that it's become.

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Speaker 2: As I.

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Speaker 4: But I gotta tell you, it was just kind of

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like this was typical, okay with Dick et Brisol and NBC.

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We're doing this, we're doing that. We need the logo

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four days ago, right, I mean that are for the course.

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And so I if I sit here, I tell you, oh,

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you know, I went through these commotions and shenanigans and yeah,

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I was a process and I spoke to none of that.

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I just banged it out. I just banged it out,

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and it'd be perfectly honest with you. I wasn't crazy.

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I thought it's okay, but I mean, I wasn't proud

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of it, and it was just one of fifty things

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on came across my desk or my drawing board more

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accurately daily, And I'm I'm you. You actually educated me

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to the fact that it's back right right, don't you know.

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I've worked on so many things since my tenure with

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the WWF that this was news to me. It's great,

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it's kind of cool, but it's one of the last

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things I ever worked on. I would have thought I

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had a radioactive half life and would show up, you know,

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decades later.

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Speaker 5: So who knows radioactive half let it's good way to

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put it by you mentioned Dick Ebersoll and bosses. As

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the listeners know, we've spent a lot of time wondering

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what it was like, Yeah, to be around Dick Ebersol

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at a time when he had such massive influence over

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the direction Vince would take the WWF, and really is

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such a I think underdiscovered part of WWF history is

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Dick Eversoll's role in things. Brian, I know you're in

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the room occasionally with Dick. Can you kind of give

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us a sense of what it was like to work

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in and around him as in nineteen eighty five as

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he takes a keen interest in pro wrestling in the WWF.

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Speaker 6: I just want to interject one thing too, especially because

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you were there before as well, Like, there's such a

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shift in I imagine a shift in dynamic between you know,

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working in eighty four and then all of a sudden

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in eighty five Dick Eversol comes in that too.

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Speaker 2: Was just I was curious about that.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean honestly and truly, my relationship with

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with Vince Solenda goes back to the late seventies and

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there's a story right there. But just and I'd like

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to come back to that and flesh out how we

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of course we met and so on and so forth

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and everything evolved into that creative director role with them.

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But yeah, Dick, Dick, you know it was it was

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really kind of a funny deal we all, uh I

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say we meaning the WWF staff. It's very interesting. Vince

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was insightful from the standpoint of recognizing that he's out

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now courting network brass at major companies TV networks, and

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this was this was the infancy of cable, never mind

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streaming that we have now, and he's speaking to very

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powerful executive types that are suit and tie dudes from

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the ground up, and he just I don't know if

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there was something that that a particular incident that inspired

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this or something, but he put out an ed act

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pretty quickly around the office that he wanted everyone in

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suit and tie. Wow, it was wasn't I mean just

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a sports jacket or something at very least a tie.

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And he wanted the women that worked for the company

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to be, you know, nicely dressed, no jeans, you know, pants,

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suits whatever. He just he just wanted to exude professionalism

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and he wanted to you know, they were they were

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dealing with big banks on their finances. He wanted a

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banker to walk in and I think you know it

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was a hippie enclave or something, or you know, guys

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dealing with wrestling. You know, you didn't want somebody to

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have a beer belly and walk by with a beer

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can in their hand or something. That's an overstatement, but

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he wanted to project a very very professional image and

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in a very predictable way, you know, not nothing, just

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just he didn't want to look like a bunch of slabs,

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you know, and one could hardly call Dick ever saw

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a slab. But I mean he's he was this sort

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of cool guy. You know, he's he's a successful television exec.

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He really made his mark in sports with NBC. As

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you probably know, he was responsible for at least three

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Olympics games. I mean, he put NBC on the map

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where sports are concerned, and that was that was really

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his home base, having built that part of the NBC

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television network. And I mean to that to this day

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that that is a huge part of his Uh how

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do how do I put it? You know, he he

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he made his mark, he could do what he wants.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of guy.

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Speaker 4: And so he shows up. I happened to be coming

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back in the office from an appointment somewhere, and this

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guy pulls in in this cherry red Porsche Targa that

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you know just you know, tricked out to the max

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and Dick gets a very tall guy and uh, you know,

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I think I think that first time, you know, he

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had some kind of funky loafers on it would be

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that or cowboy boots and and he always had a

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designer sweater, a bore, you know, hinos. He looked like

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like uh cash dude and successful TV executive and I

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mean there was there was nothing to complain about. The

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guy was, you know, clean and slick, and that was that.

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So we've had this first production meeting where where Dick

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explaining what his vision is for putting shows together, and

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Vince is sort of meeting him at every other comment

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with with with his vision of how he sees the

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wrestlers being portrayed, et cetera, et cetera. And the meeting,

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it's a very small meeting. I think Nelson Schregler was there,

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as I recall, who was head of TV programming for

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Vince and Vince. Nelson was old school, he was I

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think he had one sport jacket, this red bear navy

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blazer and you always wore this one blazer and gray

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trousers and we all joked he probably had a closet

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full of sixteen blue blazers and sixteen bears a gray

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slacks at all. And Nelson was a great guy, very

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mild battered, you know, quiet, sort of sense of humor,

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easygoing guy. And I was there, and Steve Taylor, the

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WWF photographer who was quite often on the road. He

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spent his life on the road. Basically, he was on

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the in the office maybe a day a week, or

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sometimes a day or two every two weeks when he

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was going overseas and so forth with the boys. And

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it was a really small grouping, and it was a

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great meeting. And then just out of the blue, then

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says to Dick, Dick, you may have noticed that my

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staff is all in suit. Do this is because I

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want to exude a very professional image. I'm sure you understand,

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and I don't want to have any of my people

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feel as though this is a constraint that I impose

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on them only. And he said, listen, I'm just going

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to ask you, would you mind if if you just

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the next time we meet, and whenever you come to

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our offices, you mind just at very least wearing a

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tie jacket. And Steve and I looked at each other

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and it was all we could do not to just

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burst out laughing, like, Okay, Vince is just busting this

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guy's balls. This cannot be real. Here's this accomplished TV

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executive on top of the world. He's probably one of

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a handful of the most valuable people that NBC has

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in their ranks. And Vince is asking him to dress

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up when he comes to the office, and we're like,

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he could have kiddened me, and it did. Just he

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did one of those things where his mouth was sort

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of moving in slow motion but nothing was coming out,

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you know, like he's processing this, and then it sort

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of sputtered a little bit. Well, Vince, so well, I

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know what should mean, and you could tell he was

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just frothing around and something like are you kidding me? So,

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But the long and the short of it is he

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didn't really answered the question. He just said, well, we

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have a lot on our players, so let's get you know,

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we'll be in touch by people with her people and

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all those things, and so Nelson was just Nelson didn't

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say a word. Nelson's walking down the hall, he's.

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Speaker 7: He's got that silly grin on his face and he's

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just shaking his head like I can't believe it's did that,

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and we're all hoping it didn't blow the deal, because

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why would you need to even bring something up like that?

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Speaker 4: You know, and but Steve and I we went down

240
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to the coffee room when we're just howling like, Wow,

241
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I can't I just I can't wait to see what

242
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Dick comes back. Right, So the next time he comes,

243
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he's in a full suit, wow, and no designer sweater.

244
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He's wearing it high and then he kind of softened it.

245
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And then from there it was like a sport code.

246
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And then I think way down the road six eight

247
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months later, if he came for meeting and at that

248
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point people were going into New York more, that was

249
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,639
sort of the that was that was the opening salvo

250
00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:18,720
when he came to see Vince. That was sort of like,

251
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you know, the mountain going to Mohammed. So it was interesting.

252
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But but he played the game. And you know, what

253
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we took away from the whole thing was wrestling and

254
00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:38,679
what Vince had to offer was so important and so

255
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critical to their programming. He was willing to be, you know, politely,

256
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pushed around a little and told what to wear. That

257
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just blew our minds. That absolutely blew our minds. And

258
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that Vince had you know, the gall the Scandinos asks

259
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:05,639
who's already accomplished to do something kind of weird like that,

260
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you know, but that was Vince and he called the

261
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shots and the guy did it. He dressed like he

262
00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:16,360
asked him to do, so, you know, his his own

263
00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,679
people wouldn't feel like they were being asked to dress

264
00:16:18,799 --> 00:16:22,240
up for no good reason. It was a real interesting

265
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sort of character study on you know, pushing the boundaries

266
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with somebody to see what you can get away with.

267
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It was just crazy and Vince, I don't know people

268
00:16:32,519 --> 00:16:35,559
know this or not. I meant to say Dick. His

269
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wife is Susan Saint James, Uh, the actress, and she

270
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already had you know, she was a big deal in Hollywood.

271
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She was the star of the villain and wife with

272
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Rock Hudson. Uh. She was a star in her own right.

273
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And you know, pretty almost immediately Vince and Linda and

274
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Susan and Dick were pals and you know, going out

275
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to dinner together and Vince it just sort of paved

276
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his way into essentially, you know, the television world, Hollywood society.

277
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Was just kind of fascinating to watch this happen in

278
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real time with people that you know and work with.

279
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It was it was just it was all very interesting.

280
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Speaker 5: So anyway, very good Well, that's a that's a great

281
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,920
snapshot of the time period, and you have exactly as

282
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,119
you're saying, you have a a dialogue going on about

283
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,559
how to newly present these wrestlers with you know, Dick

284
00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:41,880
Eversol's experience in television being kind of layered on top

285
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of Vince's instincts, and Vince isn't afraid to uh to

286
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draw distinctions around his level of power in the deal

287
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and that continued to be a relationship that flourished for years. Well,

288
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:55,359
let's talk about how you first got in the door

289
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,680
over there, Brian. How did you become the WWFS creative director.

290
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Speaker 4: Well, I started and it all started in probably the

291
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,200
most unlikely place on earth. Kip cod.

292
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Speaker 5: Sure, that's where he was. That's where he started so

293
00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:13,680
many of his enterprises.

294
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Speaker 4: Well, it was really interesting. I'm I'm basically a graphic designer, illustrator,

295
00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:27,960
a copywriter guy. And I started in ad agencies in

296
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Boston when I was in my early twenties in the

297
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early seventies, and you know, I had built up a

298
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pretty decent clientele and worked my tail off and I

299
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had a I found one thing and another there was

300
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,319
a printer I was doing a lot of work with

301
00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:51,480
based in Hyennas, and I found an apartment I liked

302
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:54,119
in Yarmouth Port, this great little town on the on

303
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,680
the Bay side of the Cape. And for your listeners

304
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:04,000
who grew up in I've lived around Boston. WBCN was

305
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,799
probably one of the leading all rocks stations. Oh yeah,

306
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,240
classic rock in the sixties, late sixties, early seventies right

307
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,279
right through for some time after that. But I designed

308
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:21,799
that WWF logo. I mean, it's not what am I saying,

309
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,359
the WBCN logo. It's like a chrome kind of little treatment.

310
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,759
And that was on bumper stickers for ten years or more.

311
00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:34,119
But that was one of my designs. And Christmas Tree

312
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,920
Shops logo, Boston Lobsters and Worldness was around, so I

313
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,519
had a good footprint. I couldn't establish my designer. And

314
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,200
I was this crazy, you know, twenty something guy running

315
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,720
around having fun and working my tailoff, but having plenty

316
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:56,000
of fun. And so one day I get this call.

317
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:59,640
I'm in my studio in the Armouth Port and a

318
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,839
woman named Linda McMahon calls and introduces herself. It's very

319
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:10,359
professional and she and her husband, Vince had just bought

320
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,880
the Cape Cod Coliseum out of receivership. The place had

321
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,319
struggled for years. It was about an eight thousand seat

322
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,480
venue and it had had rough times and they bought

323
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:29,640
it out cash, and she just told me a matter

324
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,119
of factly what the deal was. And they needed a logo,

325
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,839
and they'd found me in the Yellow Pages. You remember

326
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,359
those things that kids sat on when they couldn't fit

327
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,720
in their high chairs. Nobody used them for anything else

328
00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:43,799
but that dad worked that I had in there. And

329
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,720
so they made an appointment to come by and chat

330
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,240
and see some of my works, all my portfolio, et cetera,

331
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:55,599
et cetera. So the day they came the door to

332
00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,000
my it's sort of like Whener would come in the

333
00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:04,680
door on Seinfeld. The door to my studio is buying,

334
00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:10,640
and there's and and I'm just I just my jaw

335
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:15,880
sort of drop because it's a big guy. But he's

336
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:22,880
wearing a three piece pink plaid. Yes, I'm thinking, okay,

337
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,599
but this isn't like pinky lead. This isn't some slapstick.

338
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:33,039
It's obviously, you know, an Italian cut, nicely made suit.

339
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,039
It's a little bit loud, but you know, that's that's

340
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:42,160
what Vin's like to wear. So it was just kind

341
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,519
of crazy. And and you know on his heels is Linda,

342
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:50,079
and she's dressed to the nines, you know, very very gracious,

343
00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:55,279
very elegant. And I mean you have to remember, you

344
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,039
can't get on the Cape if you're not wearing boat shoes.

345
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:04,519
And you know, you know, it's very casual polo shirt,

346
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:08,279
you know, shorts, and I think I was in jeans

347
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,240
and a T shirt or something. That's just a way

348
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:15,039
of life, you know. It's sort of like being somewhere

349
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,480
on a beach in Florida or something, and they just

350
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:21,720
they look like a million bucks, but they look like

351
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:24,759
they belonged at some gala in Boston or New York.

352
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,519
So it was it was just sort of out of context.

353
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:31,400
It was funny, and they looked at my work, they

354
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:33,480
liked my work. They hired me to do the logo,

355
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:38,920
and it was kind of nothing beyond that. And I

356
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:44,599
remember this is back in the mid I'd say, this

357
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:47,680
is like, I can't honestly recall I'm going to say

358
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,480
seventy six, seventy seven, somewhere in there is when bos

359
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,319
Gags was hot and his album Silk Degrees won a Grammy.

360
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,880
I mean, this guy was hot. He was a big deal.

361
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,839
So what has Vin? He gets Boz gags at this

362
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,680
at the cape Cod Coliseum, which has been you know,

363
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,000
the Loserville Railroad forever, and he turns this place around

364
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,079
instantly and gets the hottest guy you know in music

365
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,599
playing there. You know, you must have had a tour

366
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,720
date fall apart or something happened that was already booked

367
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:26,079
and they got him at the last minute. But all

368
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,680
of a sudden, he's got you know, a less bands

369
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,160
and performers in the cape Cod Coliseum all of a sudden,

370
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,279
it's a legit place. So he had the golden touch.

371
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,400
And I learned later that he actually had an interest

372
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,519
in the Worcester Centrum, So I mean he knew his

373
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:51,039
way around the event venue facility world, and I really

374
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,119
didn't know much about the wrestling. And we became friends.

375
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,839
We would go out for a drink and a cocktail,

376
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:04,640
which is another you know institution on Cape Cod. He

377
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:08,960
expected him morning, noon and night. No I'm kidding, but

378
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,039
not really. But I the fun thing Vince Vince used

379
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:19,119
to he just made going out for cocktails. Really. He

380
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:25,319
would call up and say it's time for a tall one. Yes,

381
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,000
he's really tall. Tumblers full of you know, typically vodka,

382
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,799
and we would just have a blast and he was

383
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,759
he was a funny guy. Linda was great. We just

384
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:42,880
had a great time and that was that. And you know, uh,

385
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,440
Actually a few years went by and I heard brumblings

386
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,640
about the wrestling and I didn't I really wasn't intimately

387
00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:53,400
familiar with what all they were doing. And then I

388
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:57,839
started getting calls from both Linda and Vince and they said, look,

389
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,599
we're you know. The explained that Vince's dad had been

390
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,319
in the business for years, and it made me recall

391
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,359
when I was a kid. I actually was raised in California,

392
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,920
and I remember watching shows that originated at the Cow

393
00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:20,480
Palace in San Francisco, and you know, the original Chic

394
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:25,200
and Haystack Calhoun. I mean, real old timers like that

395
00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:28,680
who I was watching when I was seven or eight,

396
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,839
and it occurred to me, holy crap, Vince's dad put

397
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,920
those shows together. So it was like this weird string

398
00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:41,079
of occurrences that had been going on forever that I

399
00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:44,319
just knew of in a certain perspective as a kid,

400
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,839
and now I was realizing, wow, that this is becoming

401
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,759
a bigger deal, and so he was. He had this

402
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:57,160
vision for doing nationally broadcast shows where wrestling used to be.

403
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:04,319
Remember remember the old VHF in UHF TVF a schlumpy

404
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,480
little world that TV existed in. It had nothing to

405
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:10,279
do with what it's grown to or streaming or anything.

406
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,000
And not that Vincent defined all that it could be.

407
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,119
But he had this vision that it could be a

408
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,799
lot more than it was, and it was really fascinating.

409
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,920
And my biggest client was Infinity Broadcasting, which is a

410
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:28,480
radio company. It was the home of Howard Stern and

411
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:32,039
I did Stearn's promotion. That was my big ticket. And

412
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,400
I was doing that from the Cape, which was a

413
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,119
bit of a feat but I loved it and I

414
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,000
didn't feel I had to go anywhere. I had it made.

415
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:42,839
As far as I was concerned, I had a great gig.

416
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,160
I was my own boss. I'm on the Cape. I

417
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,079
had a good client, several clients, but that was the

418
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,880
big one. And they made these overtairs, We're going to

419
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,759
start doing shows out of Madison Square Garden. I'm like God,

420
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,359
and he said, listen, we wanted to be our creative director.

421
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,359
We wanted to you know, bring your vision for you know,

422
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,319
the look and the feel of the whole thing. And

423
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,079
it sounded fascinating. And at the same time, I'm thinking, yeah,

424
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:12,720
and I'm gonna I'm gonna be down somewhere around New York.

425
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,000
It's going to be more expensive, it's a little more formal.

426
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:20,000
It's I'm processing all this stuff in my head. I mean,

427
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:21,839
it's not like I ever left the Cape. I used

428
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:23,720
to go to New York City every two weeks on

429
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:30,039
puddle jumper out of Hyenas Airport down to you know,

430
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,039
La Guardia or one of the big three airports, depending

431
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,279
on what was available. And I would I would take

432
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:38,319
a taxi in town and had my meetings and come

433
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,680
back to the Cape. I was perfectly satisfied. And so

434
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:44,960
they're saying, yeah, well, this is a big deal, and

435
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,119
we're gonna we can't we can't work you know, at

436
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,720
arm's lengths. You're gonna have to be on premises. You're

437
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:54,279
gonna have to marry this thing. And like, I don't know,

438
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:56,960
and I mean this this wasn't a matter of conversations

439
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,119
in a matter of days or weeks. This one on

440
00:27:59,319 --> 00:28:03,920
for two years. Because they were planning and they were.

441
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,240
They were starting to do shows out of out of

442
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,079
Madison Square Gardens and so MSG had become their their base,

443
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:14,039
but they hadn't built up a staff. They were they

444
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,599
were lining people up. They were just trying to strategize

445
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,680
how to do this thing and what to call it.

446
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,000
Titan Sports became the corporate name. And I mean before

447
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,400
I even left the Cape, I had worked on a

448
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,119
logo for Titan Sports, and I had done the original

449
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:35,519
ww F logo, which looked nothing like it did with

450
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,319
the you know, the the stacked w's with the F

451
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,880
growing out the right. That evolved to that, and it

452
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:47,960
was just a real but for literally two years, they

453
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,160
would call me maybe every month or two. Have you

454
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:53,240
thought about it? Have you thought about? Like? Ho? Come on?

455
00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:57,279
And they kept upping the offer, and they thought, all right,

456
00:28:57,519 --> 00:28:59,240
it's going to get to a certain point where I

457
00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:01,920
got to be crazy not to do it. Because I

458
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,000
knew this thing was going to amount to something. I

459
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,799
just didn't know how big it was going to get

460
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:11,319
around fast. And they finally hit a number and I thought,

461
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:17,240
oh man, what am I doing? So I put my

462
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:21,960
house on the market, and you know, it was my

463
00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:27,319
first house. I made a little bit of money. Okay,

464
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:31,160
I moved. I moved down to uh Greenwich. I mean

465
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,000
that this is like culture shock. This is like living

466
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,599
in a hut in Botswana and being transmitted to London.

467
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: You know.

468
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:45,319
Speaker 4: But what and the craziest thing. I got down to

469
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,799
Greenwich and it took I'm in a hotel. It took

470
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:52,880
me two months to find an affordable apartment. It's a

471
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,039
very expensive place. And you know, all all your corporate honchos,

472
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,960
all your all your heads of the biggest stock exchanges

473
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,039
and houses living places like Greenwich and neighboring suburbs in

474
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:13,559
New York just over the state line. It's you really

475
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,759
have to have some cake to play the game down there.

476
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:19,079
And I remember the first time I picked up some

477
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,640
dry cleaning. I mean it was like a shirt and

478
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,799
a pair of pants. It would have been like six

479
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,559
bucks on the cape. And I went to the dry cleaner,

480
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,519
I picked my stuff up. I said, I was just

481
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,160
sort of shooting the breeze with the guy for a

482
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,680
minute and I said, so what do I owe you?

483
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:38,759
And he said thirty dollars and I just burst that.

484
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:42,839
I really was laughing as that, you know, really what

485
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,359
a way owe you? And He just looked at me

486
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:46,640
like I was some rube that had been under a

487
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:50,440
rock for the last century, and he said thirty bucks,

488
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,400
like a idiot. I'm like okay, and I paid him.

489
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,079
And I remember like walking out with my clothes in

490
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:04,319
one of those you know, Dray cleaner bags. I'm like,

491
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:11,920
what did I just do? Oh my goodness, I think.

492
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,920
I mean this was real culture shock and nothing to

493
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,240
do with the wrestler. I mean, that's a whole other layer.

494
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,839
You know, you're in this very hoity toity place where

495
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,599
people tend to be more dressed up. You know, people

496
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,759
wear designer clothes. People are driving, you know, every other

497
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,599
car is a land Rover Mercedes for you know, Ferrari

498
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,480
the Lotus Way. You know.

499
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:41,759
Speaker 1: He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carno

500
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:53,480
and JP Sorrow. It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast.

501
00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 5: Well, you touched on design of the original w W

502
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:58,279
Flogobrian and I don't want to leave that unddressed because

503
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:00,680
that's obviously a point of fascination for pro fans. The

504
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,440
WWF logo that came into you know, general view during

505
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,599
your time. It's just the north Star when it comes

506
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,759
to like a look that everyone fell in love with.

507
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,119
As regards the WWF, you had said, it didn't quite

508
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,640
look that way in the beginning. So can you take

509
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,480
us through what it looked like at the very start

510
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,960
and how it came to be this chrome, shiny thing

511
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:22,759
that we all remember so well with the f off

512
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:27,039
to the right, as you mentioned, well, and you've.

513
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,759
Speaker 4: Got to realize this thing was such a process. I

514
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:38,839
had no inkling how how big and bold and successful

515
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,799
this thing was going to get so quickly, And it

516
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,400
really wasn't designed And from the little input that I

517
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:50,680
had got from Vince, this wasn't a logo that I

518
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,000
envisioned was necessarily going to be on screen on television,

519
00:32:56,079 --> 00:33:00,240
something for consider to be looking at it. It was

520
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:05,599
a corporate logo, just some sort of signature to identify

521
00:33:05,759 --> 00:33:08,440
the fact that, you know, when they were doing business,

522
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:12,480
correspondence back and forth to promoters, to you know, rent

523
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,400
venues and so forth, that kind of thing. And so

524
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:23,720
it was very simply a W, just just a right

525
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:26,160
reading W. You're looking at the W and above it,

526
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:30,680
let's say you're looking at a Let's say you're looking

527
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:35,400
at a compass. So the S the south is at

528
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,759
the bottom, and there's a west east and an end

529
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,000
for the north at the top. It was a W

530
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:45,400
going in four directions.

531
00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: I'm looking at it right now.

532
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 4: It is.

533
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating logo. I've never seen this one before.

534
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 4: Where did you find it?

535
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 6: I just googled it. I did a quick google of it,

536
00:33:55,319 --> 00:34:01,319
and I did WWF logo. I just did nineteen seventies

537
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,880
and then this one came up. It's like fluorescent green.

538
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 4: You've got to be kidding me, how come? Wow? Okay,

539
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:16,920
so but now think about this. Think of MetLife, the

540
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:21,960
insurance company, and they have an M that very similarly

541
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,559
those or directions like that, and the bottoms it's like

542
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,800
a in that instance, it's the the M is at

543
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,079
the top where the where the end for north would be.

544
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,599
So this, anyway, I never even thought about that when

545
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:40,679
I designed the logo. I just thought it was sort

546
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,840
of a fun graphic and it looked expansive, like it's

547
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:46,599
it's going in all directions at once. That was the idea.

548
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:49,119
It had this energy to do a three sixty whatever

549
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:56,239
that was. So Vince loves it. Okay, that's the logo.

550
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,320
The prince that puts it on letterheads that business cards.

551
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,599
That's about the of it. So he gets this letter

552
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,639
from an attorney for MetLife.

553
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,599
Speaker 2: Yes he does, and.

554
00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 4: The attorney accuses him of ripping off their logo blah

555
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,280
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and

556
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,119
Vince is just amused by the whole thing, and I'm

557
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,599
in my naivete I'm in terror because I'm thinking, oh

558
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:29,760
my god, they're going to sue me too, because I

559
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,159
designed the frickate thing, and you know, I had no

560
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,840
idea how these things worked at that point in my career,

561
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,079
I've gotten a lot more sophisticated business wise, but at

562
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,400
that point I was just struck terror in my heart.

563
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,840
And so I started doing some research on my own

564
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:50,320
and looking for precedents legal presidents that I happened to

565
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,079
have a friend who was a district attorney in Hyhennas

566
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:57,800
and legal beagle in them. He said, don't sweat at me,

567
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,320
and he gave me some legal finding. He found a

568
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,440
bunch of precedents where when a company, first of all,

569
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:08,480
you have to be in the same product area. So

570
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,880
so the WWF would have to be selling insurance for

571
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,159
met Life to have any kind of case at all,

572
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:18,840
which of course they weren't close to doing, and that

573
00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:22,320
life close to making big, sweaty guys jump around and

574
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,360
beat each other up. So you know, there was no case.

575
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:29,559
But the CEO this is this is the craziest thing.

576
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,239
It turns out the CEO of MetLife, I can't even

577
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,159
remember the guy's name, turned out to be a closet

578
00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:42,920
wrestling freak pro wrestling, so and that almost sort of

579
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:46,440
legitimized pro wrestling. And then Vince had a big smile

580
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:50,039
because yeah, everybody loves this stuff, they just don't admit it.

581
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:56,079
I mean, it was pretty cool. And what Vince did?

582
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,159
Speaker 2: Were you, Brian, were you a fan when growing up?

583
00:36:59,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Did you watch wrestle?

584
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's what I was talking about. When I

585
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,480
lived with the California as a kid, I watched wrestley

586
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:11,960
shows coming out of the Cow Palace and which people

587
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:14,639
may not if you're not familiar with the it's a

588
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,079
huge venue. The Cow Palace is like, h it's it's

589
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:23,800
a big deal and anyway, no, but what what what

590
00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:28,480
really struck me was Vince didn't even want to spend

591
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:30,760
a dime on one of his attorneys. And believe me,

592
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,920
he had some powerhouse attorneys. But he didn't want to

593
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:39,119
waste the money, you know, indulging this guy. He wrote

594
00:37:39,199 --> 00:37:43,800
a letter back to the chairman of MetLife on his

595
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:49,440
letter head and it was just it was a it

596
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:53,800
was a business lesson this this There should be a

597
00:37:54,000 --> 00:38:00,519
Harvard Business School course enshrined on how to belittle somebody

598
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,800
in three paragraphs and bring them to their knees. And

599
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,280
it started off and dear so, and so it was

600
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,639
something to the effective as a fellow member of the

601
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,119
world business community.

602
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 5: Yes, that's right.

603
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,199
Speaker 4: So we're already on the same place. And he was

604
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,960
basically saying, shut up and calm down and listen to me.

605
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:31,599
And he said, I you don't actually have grounds for this.

606
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:37,559
If you feel that our brand is somehow damaging yours

607
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,559
and we happen not to be in product areas that

608
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,920
have anything to do with each other, it's incumbent upon

609
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:47,920
you to pay me to change my logo. I'm perfectly

610
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,119
happy to do it. But the cost, because it now

611
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,599
is embedded in dozens of TV shows and hundreds of

612
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,320
hours of programming, the cost to design the new logo

613
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:05,760
and repro will be approximately one hundred thousand dollars so

614
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,159
guess what, he gets a check from that lot for

615
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,800
one hundred grand And did I get I got fifteen

616
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,599
hundred bucks.

617
00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: Counting that.

618
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 4: Back then, that was a lot of money.

619
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: To me, that was a lot of money.

620
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,039
Speaker 4: That's not an enormous amount for logo design in the

621
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,719
realm of things that I work at today, but you know,

622
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,400
that was a big deal back then. So I was

623
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:34,599
just happy as a clam. And you know, I and

624
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,360
I just got thinking, like, what are we going to

625
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,079
do differently here? And I started experimenting the w's and

626
00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:42,280
I realized how they could stack. Yes, And you know,

627
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,000
you don't need to work too hard to put an

628
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:46,960
F next to it. You could just grow a couple

629
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,400
of lines out and you've got the semblance of an F.

630
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:53,360
And I and I started playing with it, and interestingly too,

631
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:58,000
this this, you know, for that logo and for WrestleMania.

632
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,320
This era that we live in now, you know, kids

633
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,400
are learning how to do photoshop in school. It's a given.

634
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,760
It's just another app. And you know, but back in

635
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,360
that era, photoshop in its infancy wasn't around until the

636
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:24,079
mid nineties. Everything was done traditional airbrush. I'm not an illustrator,

637
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:28,239
but I would. I would pencil my designs very very tightly.

638
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:28,639
Speaker 2: I was.

639
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 4: I was absolutely a stickler about details, and I had

640
00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:38,679
some great airbrush artists that I would then sub contract

641
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,559
to to do that end of it. And then I

642
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:43,800
would do what it's called dry brush technique, which is

643
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,320
detailing on top of the airbrush layer for highlights and

644
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,159
so forth. And that's how these logos came to be.

645
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,039
And you know, the basic ww IF logo just for

646
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:57,920
lighterhead and stuff was just a black image. But then

647
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:00,480
when I when I realized the mag that you to,

648
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:02,800
what this thing was becoming, and that it was going

649
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,760
to be on screen, and that it had to be

650
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,440
you know, hot and sexy and compete with everything else

651
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:13,440
on TV, I'd thrown out the possibility to Benson Linda,

652
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:15,719
that you know, hey, let's do this in full color,

653
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,920
let's let's make it look rich, let's give it a

654
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,159
metallic kind of really funky feel. And then you know,

655
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,760
the answer was then and always was do it. And

656
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:29,800
that's how it got where it got.

657
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 5: Wow, that is such critical history to know because that

658
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:36,559
logo just centers us. Like I said, and yeah, that

659
00:41:36,639 --> 00:41:40,320
original four points logo, I know, I've seen it on

660
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:44,000
WWF television before I kind of associated with the time

661
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:47,960
when they were like more of the seventies. But I

662
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:50,840
suppose maybe it was just super imposed on footage from

663
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,119
the seventies that they later released. But yeah, that's not

664
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:57,880
a logo, Brian. That's completely unfamiliar to wrestling fans. It's

665
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,639
harder to find, but it's out there, and wow, that's

666
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,599
how we got to the WWF logo. We all need

667
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,840
just one more question on that logo before we move on.

668
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,000
Is it supposed to evote kind of like a horizon

669
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:10,320
in the desert or something. I was that middle line

670
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,519
beneath kind of has like a brownish, almost like sand

671
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:16,400
color in the top is like a sky blue. I've

672
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,719
always wondered if I'm just seeing things when I look

673
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,239
at the logo, if that's what you intended.

674
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:25,639
Speaker 4: No, Actually, I'll tell you something funny. I I grew

675
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,079
up loving hot rods. I mean, but when the kid

676
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:34,079
done and I grew up, well, my folks flow up

677
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:38,239
when I was barely a teenager and I came kicking

678
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,280
and screaming back to these coast But the you know,

679
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:48,159
I remember watching these insanely hot This is the era

680
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,400
of big Daddy at Roth and you know, car magazines

681
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:58,400
raised rein supreme with the you know, just just crazy

682
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,159
chroned mountains of it engines. And when you when you

683
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:09,800
look at any kind of chrome typography, you know, like

684
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:13,039
the or the logo for the Dodge Ram or a

685
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:18,239
hubcap on a low rider, you quite often see earth

686
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,639
tones or grays which are reflection of the asphalt of

687
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:24,880
the road, and then you see a soft blue that's

688
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,400
the sky. It's just that simple. You're reflecting whatever is

689
00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:33,880
around the chrome in the peripheral vision from from maybe

690
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,280
you see a little hint of green. You're picking up

691
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,280
the bushes and the trees at the street level. It's

692
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,960
just it's just a stylized reflection of whatever colors are

693
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:46,320
picked up in reflection in the chrome, whether it's a

694
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:52,960
bumper or a hubcap, whatever, and that's it. It was

695
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:56,159
just simply a matter of making contrast to make it

696
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,599
look interesting and too so when the high lights appear,

697
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:04,639
they look even brighter, shinier. You know, there's not a

698
00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:09,039
lot of science to it. It was just really just

699
00:44:09,199 --> 00:44:13,639
a stylization of you know, somebody went to a metal

700
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:17,480
working shop and had that logo built in three d

701
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,800
mounted on the side of a building and cars are

702
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,239
going by, and you know there's a flower bed somewhere by.

703
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,880
You're gonna see hints of brown from the dirt and

704
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,440
the flower bed. Way. It's that simple that it's just

705
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:36,920
how how chrome sort of abstractly reflects light and color

706
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:37,480
around it.

707
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 5: So right, it's not a it's not necessarily depiction of

708
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,960
a landscape. It's a reflection of something bouncing off the logo,

709
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:45,760
like it in a chrome tailpipe or something.

710
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:50,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, really cool. Going back to the WBCN logo

711
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,840
that I originally did in the mid seventies, that that

712
00:44:56,119 --> 00:44:59,320
in part was my inspiration for the finish on the

713
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:04,960
on the on the w w F logo and and

714
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,840
and you know, the the the WrestleMania logo had some

715
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,880
aspects of that. It was a little cleaner, a little brighter,

716
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:16,480
and and the concept for that was that was going

717
00:45:16,559 --> 00:45:20,440
to be the big show. And so that it became

718
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:24,559
even more almost you know, gold and diamond like, if

719
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:31,480
you will. It wanted to just be really you know, bright, showy.

720
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

721
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,159
Speaker 5: Well, let's pick up that thread there. I mean, you know,

722
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,000
what are some of your more memorable moments with the

723
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:41,199
w w F. I'd imagine the build up to WrestleMania

724
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,119
was no small part of it.

725
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 4: Wow, well, I'll tell you are are you interested at all?

726
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,719
And knowing how the the name WrestleMania came about?

727
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,199
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's the perject of extensive lore And we

728
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,280
all know how it. Ankle gets the credit in the

729
00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:05,519
the official WWF cannon as far as like the corporate history,

730
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:08,599
but we also know that there's others that you can

731
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:09,400
assign that credit to.

732
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:14,119
Speaker 4: So please, well, I haven't heard anyone else's signed with it,

733
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,639
and I knew how, and I really liked how he was.

734
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:22,239
He was just one of those really authentic people. You know.

735
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,639
He went out of his way, absolutely out of his

736
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,119
way to be as nice as he could be to people.

737
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,079
And there there were a few, say, in any office anywhere,

738
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:36,000
there are a few people that you know, let their

739
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:39,840
bad morning, grumpy day hang with them through the day.

740
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,400
And they weren't, you know, they didn't know how to

741
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,000
keep a chin up around others. And how he was

742
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:50,880
that kind of guy wherever he was, even if he

743
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,840
weren't a great mood, he can go with, hey, how

744
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,800
you doing, and you just light up a room when

745
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,920
he came in. He was that kind of guy, and

746
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,199
I don't honestly think and he claimed credit for it.

747
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,039
Speaker 2: I think he was.

748
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 4: It was attributed to him. But what really happened, you know,

749
00:47:11,639 --> 00:47:15,719
based basically in the late fall of eighty four, Vince

750
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,280
just put the feelers out the department as I was,

751
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:26,360
I was head of you know, loosely creative and production,

752
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:28,119
if you want to call it that, And there was

753
00:47:28,159 --> 00:47:31,679
a there was a very closely associated guy named Tom Emmanuel,

754
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,880
a British guy who ran the publishing. Although I designed

755
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,519
the w W magazine and oversaw the art end of it,

756
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,159
Tom was the publisher of it. So we all worked

757
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:46,719
together in different capacities on some of the same things.

758
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:54,119
And Vince maybe these rumbleys. He wanted to have a huge,

759
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,719
huge event that would be pay per view, and even

760
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,320
the ter everyone was like what and you know, this

761
00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:05,679
was like the infancy of what we now call on demand.

762
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,920
But Vince had been talking to people at ESPN and

763
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,119
this is actually, you know, at least a year or so,

764
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,320
I think a year and a half or more before

765
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,679
Dick Eversol came into the fold, and Vince had been

766
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,480
doing his homework on a technology that was loosely being

767
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,760
called pay per view, and people were still trying to

768
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,440
work out how the heck it was going to work,

769
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:34,239
et cetera, et cetera. But he decided that he wanted

770
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,559
to just do this massive event, a big live event

771
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:43,199
at MSG, but it would be broadcast via satellite and

772
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,199
people who have the ability to get into their homes,

773
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,400
which was next to nobody could watch it. But most

774
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,599
people were going to sports bars or what have you

775
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,159
to watch it on a big screen with a bunch

776
00:48:55,199 --> 00:49:00,159
of other people. And so he just wanted to start

777
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,000
kicking around names. So he called a couple of staff

778
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:07,440
meetings with department heads so that that would be That

779
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:13,079
would be Tom myself, promoters like Basil DeVito and Cohen

780
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,199
Nelson Schwegler, who was head of TV. Steve I can't

781
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,159
honestly remember Steve was in all the meeting. He was

782
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,159
one of them because he was usually on the road,

783
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:30,880
Steve Taylor, the photographer, and but but what we we'd

784
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,760
have these meetings and it was like a typical meeting,

785
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,960
and everybody's got an idea, it's bouncing all over the place.

786
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,239
And how many of us have been in a meeting

787
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:47,199
or something actually got done right, you know, you mean, well,

788
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,000
and everybody throws in their two cents, but you usually

789
00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:53,960
wind up needing to schedule another meeting or meetings upon meetings,

790
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:59,320
and yeah, that's why people hate meetings. So anyway, what

791
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,079
was going going on was what was good about it

792
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,280
was that it prompted everybody'd be walking around thinking, you know,

793
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,440
was they're doing other things and they're sitting at their

794
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360
desks or you know, on the phone with somebody droning

795
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,960
on about something. They're really thinking, Okay, what are we

796
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,199
gonna call us thing? So it prompted everybody to have it,

797
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,559
you know, in the forefront of their minds, to try

798
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:21,159
to come up with something. And there was this guy

799
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,440
and I have tried desperately since we talked about doing this,

800
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,760
uh this podcast. You know, this guy came to mind

801
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,639
and a life of me cannot remember his last name.

802
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:37,519
He wasn't with the WWF all that long. He had

803
00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:41,400
come in in the fall of eighty four. He was

804
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,199
only there about a year and a half. Really a

805
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,199
short guy. He looked a little like Bobby Riggs, the

806
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,079
tennis pro that the Billy Jean King in that era.

807
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,679
He was he was kind of gruff. He was this

808
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,800
chain spoken guy, and he seems the part of a character,

809
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,480
kind of kind of crusty. I like the guy, and

810
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,280
he was a funny little guy. And Steve and I

811
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,840
were in the coffee room and Rex wandered in and

812
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:19,119
he was musing to himself about something under his breath.

813
00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:21,639
He said, what do you guys, what do you think

814
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:26,719
of WrestleMania? Wow? Wow? And I don't know if Steve

815
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,880
recalls this or not, he may think I'm out of

816
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,320
my mind, but I have a very distinct memory of this.

817
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,559
And we just looked at each other like yeah, and

818
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:40,000
he just said, well, you know, it's basically the Beatlemania

819
00:51:40,199 --> 00:51:43,480
with wrestling. Its kind of beatle I mean, and it

820
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:45,639
was so obvious, it was so perfect because when you

821
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:52,119
think about it, what's really interesting to me, I was,

822
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:56,159
I don't know, thirteen twelve thirteen, when the Beatles first

823
00:51:56,639 --> 00:52:00,519
came on the scene. I mean, that was that was epic.

824
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,920
That was no one had ever ever heard anything like that,

825
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:07,599
in the same way that prior to Elvis, no one

826
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:11,280
had ever heard anything like Elvis. You can't say that

827
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:15,440
about even Belie, about Michael Jackson. There's there's been big

828
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,719
icons that happened to be a songwriter, a musician that is,

829
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,400
that is my passion and music, live and breathe music.

830
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:28,159
I think about it all the time. And el Elvis

831
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,159
was iconic in the in the sense that he did

832
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:39,480
something no one had even imagined before. Now now, you know,

833
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,960
obviously he emulated blues artists and and and you know

834
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,440
bit players in the formation of R and B who

835
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,079
will never get the credit they're due. But and like kind,

836
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:54,760
you know, the Beatles were influenced by R and B players,

837
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,199
and you know they but they came about it in

838
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,079
an entirely different way. And when they appear, beatle Mania

839
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,360
was really the only thing you could call it. People

840
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,199
people were showing up by the thousands of airports to

841
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,039
greet them when they were on tour. Now, what's the

842
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:13,519
last time that happened. Well, I'll tell you the last time.

843
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:17,119
I know what happened. And you may not be that surprised.

844
00:53:18,519 --> 00:53:27,079
When the WWF guys tour in Arabic nations, in Saudi Arabia, Qatar,

845
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:32,840
places like that, people show up at the airport. Wow.

846
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:38,760
And in Japan and not so much now, but I

847
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,079
mean in the in the big blow up in the eighties.

848
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,440
That is how hot this thing was. And I just

849
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:50,280
thought how fitting that that just sort of grabs that

850
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:54,039
energy and that describes that that chill you get up

851
00:53:54,079 --> 00:54:00,480
your back like whoa. And I think what happened was,

852
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,320
you know, Rex was very kind of like under himself

853
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,840
kind of guy. He was involved in TV production. I

854
00:54:09,159 --> 00:54:13,119
think I think he had been at CNN prior to that.

855
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,039
He was somewhere in the in the TV biz. And

856
00:54:17,159 --> 00:54:21,639
I've tried to google what his last name might have been,

857
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,840
and I've various different Rexes, and there's Rex Jones, of course,

858
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,679
and there's a couple of name name value wrestlers who

859
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,320
for his name was Rex. This guy was not a wrestler,

860
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,960
very diminutive guy, but very nice guy.

861
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 5: But it sounds to me, if I can interrupt Brian

862
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:42,480
with the glasses and the diminutive and the Atlanta connections,

863
00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:47,800
it sounds like you're describing Jim Barnett. Oh okay, you

864
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:48,719
know Jimmy.

865
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jim was a crazy man. Oh my god.

866
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,159
Speaker 5: Well, I hate to derail you, but we got to

867
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:55,880
take a quick pit stop for jim Z. I mean

868
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,800
the subject of endless fascination for wrestling fans. He came

869
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,320
to work for Vincent eighty three and the ultimate mover

870
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,440
and shaker. Can you quickly give us a memory on

871
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:07,320
Jim Barnett That sounds like a yes.

872
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 4: Oh, Jim Barnett was an Elton John of his own era.

873
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:26,079
This guy, well, you know he was, he was. He

874
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,639
was just an institution. I don't even know how to

875
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:38,639
really character Brian, Yes a moment. Yes, I mean, he

876
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,000
was just such a character. Oh my gosh. It's just

877
00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:46,920
like he strode off a plantation with a mint julip

878
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,440
in his hands. He said, the only thing that guy

879
00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:57,960
drank was Don Peranelle. He had a refrigerator in his

880
00:55:58,119 --> 00:56:01,400
office and Linda would go down there every once in

881
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,760
a while and you know, tip a glass with him

882
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,000
and just shoot the breeze, and you know, there, she's

883
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:11,719
a Southern bell. Jim was clearly from the South. Jim

884
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,280
never left the South. He just brought the South with him.

885
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,719
He had, Honest to god, what was he had? He

886
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:29,000
had more silk ties than Liberaci and he was just

887
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:32,519
a character. I don't know where, but somewhere in Manhattan

888
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:36,800
he had an apartment, and I think he had a

889
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,159
place he stayed out in Connecticut when he was at

890
00:56:39,199 --> 00:56:43,360
the office. But but he was. He was an old

891
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:51,920
school wrestling promoter who was had worked with Vince's dad

892
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:55,840
way back, and and he oh my gosh, what a character.

893
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,480
He was just one of the funniest people I've ever met.

894
00:56:58,800 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

895
00:56:59,639 --> 00:57:01,119
Speaker 5: Well, somebody else that was in the company at the

896
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:03,119
time to pick up your threat on who this Rex

897
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:05,519
could have been. Do you remember Bob McMullen, who worked

898
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:06,519
as VP of finance.

899
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: That's a boy. I was one of his favorite people.

900
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,000
I used to bring bills you couldn't.

901
00:57:14,679 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 5: Imagine, So I guess you remember him perhaps from pleasant

902
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,280
and unpleasant interactions as regards the bottom line.

903
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:26,119
Speaker 4: Very pleasant, But I mean I was in charge of

904
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:31,960
procuring all kinds of gear and and uh outfitting for

905
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:34,440
for the wrestlers from time to time.

906
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

907
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. I found this equestrian shop that made saddles and

908
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,800
stuff for you know, people who do dressage and you know,

909
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,559
fancy horse racing. And I said, can you guys make

910
00:57:46,639 --> 00:57:49,840
wrestling belts? Can you can you make a gladiator outfit

911
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,119
for one of our dresslers? And they were just having

912
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:55,559
a stuff. So I would bring him bills from this

913
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:59,840
equestrian shop, and what do we why do we feeding horses?

914
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:07,480
I said, But but the craziest thing, the craziest thing.

915
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:11,280
One time I had ted d Biassi, the million dollar

916
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:19,519
man in Virgil, come into the offices and they had

917
00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:22,320
a limo to shuttle them around and then take them

918
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,119
back to the airport because they were this is like

919
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:27,440
one stop off the road between gigs at you know,

920
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:32,519
different venues, and the limo driver left. He didn't he

921
00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:35,639
didn't understand the itinerary or something, and they were kind

922
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,440
of stranded. But they needed to get fitted for costumes,

923
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:43,440
and I wanted this equestrium shop to do some of

924
00:58:43,519 --> 00:58:47,679
the outfitting for for the million dollar man's you know,

925
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:52,559
costuming for the ring and uh at the at the time,

926
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,320
at the time, I had a little BMW convertible and

927
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:02,440
it was a great car until that happened. And I

928
00:59:02,559 --> 00:59:06,519
got two guys that are just shy of eight hundred

929
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:10,679
pounds between the two of them, and it's like I

930
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,719
got a low rider. I mean, it's just crazy. I said,

931
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,599
do you guys want to put the top and you

932
00:59:16,639 --> 00:59:18,360
want me to put the top up, so you know,

933
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,559
you're not like having a wave in every jimoke that

934
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:23,960
comes along, and they I'll leave it down. It's great.

935
00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:26,360
It was a beautiful day. So we had to drive

936
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,519
up to Westport, which is, yeah, you know, with with

937
00:59:30,639 --> 00:59:34,639
no traffic, twenty minutes but typically forty minutes from Greenwich.

938
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,599
And so we drive up to Westport and I did

939
00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:40,159
part of a ninety five and the back of my

940
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,440
cars dragging, I mean, is just like you got to

941
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,639
be kidding me, you know, we're just all laughing, but

942
00:59:45,719 --> 00:59:48,519
I'm thinking they're not going to believe this in the

943
00:59:48,599 --> 00:59:50,800
office when I hand him a bill, because my shocks

944
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:55,239
are blown to shreds. So we did what we had

945
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,880
to do at the equestrian shop, and we came back

946
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,880
and they scheduled another limo, went to the airport and

947
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,840
they're gone. But my car was just I was just groaning.

948
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:07,800
I could hear it out in the park. Who help me.

949
01:00:09,159 --> 01:00:11,719
I went down to McMullen's office and I said, oh,

950
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:13,719
this is this is one for the books. I need

951
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,920
new shocks. He said why you well, and you know

952
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:19,320
paying for your repairing your car? He said, yeah, because

953
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:23,960
a million dollar man in Virgil flattened it. Oh, and

954
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:27,840
he just laughed and he said, just go get him fixed,

955
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,880
get me a bill. I mean it was I always,

956
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,679
I wasn't the only one. There were just so many

957
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:39,400
crazy things. And in this era before long before photoshop,

958
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,440
the only way to electronically alter photographs and so forth.

959
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:48,760
It's very expensive. It was a system called a cy

960
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:54,119
Tex system, and it was like a roomful of mainframe computers,

961
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:58,000
and it was cheap. It was one hundred and fifty

962
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:01,800
bucks an hour. But Vincent insisted. At one point we

963
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,119
had this great shot of Hulk, but his hair was stinning,

964
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,679
and and you know, some of the guys very vain.

965
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:12,639
They do hair plugs whatever, but you know, painful operations.

966
01:01:12,679 --> 01:01:14,920
I think there's better solutions now, but that was the

967
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,719
state of the art medically back then. The Vincent we

968
01:01:17,719 --> 01:01:21,360
don't have time. Just give him more hair. Oh my god,

969
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:24,159
you're not gonna want to see the billy, so just

970
01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:32,800
do it. Wow, what Hulk's got all the hair in

971
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:33,320
the world.

972
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,239
Speaker 5: Because we always talk about O'Brian, you know, there seems

973
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,119
to be like a message to shoot Hulk as far

974
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:45,320
as camera angles and stuff, to always shoot him kind

975
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,599
of down looking up, so you don't ever see really

976
01:01:47,639 --> 01:01:49,239
the top of his head. I mean, you don't see

977
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,079
the top of wrestler's heads too much anyway, but it's

978
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:53,199
very noticeable. I think when you when you come to

979
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,760
learn that there was that sensitivity about him getting bald.

980
01:01:57,239 --> 01:01:59,119
Speaker 4: Well. I remember, I remember there was one time that

981
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,559
Linda came in my office with a stack of bills

982
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:05,400
in her hand. She said, what's side text. I said,

983
01:02:05,679 --> 01:02:08,400
it's a whole other money in, you know. I mean,

984
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,519
it's that's the only way we could get certain things done.

985
01:02:11,559 --> 01:02:12,320
And it was crazy.

986
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:15,559
Speaker 5: So I mentioned Bob McMullen just because there was a

987
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:17,800
book that came out by friend of the show, Brad Blucian,

988
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,679
called The six Pack last year, and he kind of,

989
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,599
you know, finds all kinds of people from this era

990
01:02:22,679 --> 01:02:25,159
and interviews them about what the real formation of the

991
01:02:25,199 --> 01:02:28,400
boom period WWF was like. And he interviews Bob McMullen,

992
01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:31,719
and sure enough, Bob McMullen contends that it was in

993
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,199
fact Rex Jones. He says, Jones, who was brought in

994
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,119
a television guy. Linda brought us in Vince's office. We're

995
01:02:38,119 --> 01:02:40,119
trying to think about how to do it. We're talking

996
01:02:40,159 --> 01:02:42,440
about mania. So Rex sits there and says it's got

997
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,119
to be WrestleMania rhymes with Hulk of Mania. So is

998
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:48,000
it Rex Jones. You seem to be not sure if

999
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:49,840
it's Rex Jones, but Bob seems to think it is.

1000
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,199
Speaker 4: Well, I thought of Rex Jones that has something to

1001
01:02:53,239 --> 01:02:56,119
do with wrestling online, and it didn't look remotely like

1002
01:02:56,239 --> 01:02:59,119
the guy I remember whose first name was Rex.

1003
01:02:59,320 --> 01:02:59,599
Speaker 2: Got it?

1004
01:02:59,679 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, I did a similar surgeon. I'm not sure

1005
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:03,960
that all the pictures that come up as actually the

1006
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:06,239
person that worked for WWF. I think there might be

1007
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:07,199
some confusion there too.

1008
01:03:08,039 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 4: I don't doubt. I don't doubt that are Rex Jones.

1009
01:03:12,599 --> 01:03:14,679
It just wasn't in the in the area of things

1010
01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:16,679
that I worked on, and I don't recall it. But

1011
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,079
what I'm saying is the guy that I remember, I

1012
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:24,480
remember physically distinctly, and I found Rex Jones online because

1013
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,360
I remember you had mentioned that when we spoke before,

1014
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,639
and that was a totally different guy. They had dark hair,

1015
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,880
just different look whatsoever. But you didn't have the horn

1016
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:40,400
room glasses, and just Rex was was very distinctive right

1017
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,840
the way. Just for the life of me, can't remember

1018
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:43,800
the guys last name.

1019
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,519
Speaker 5: That's that's fair. I just wanted to see if that

1020
01:03:46,119 --> 01:03:48,519
that sharpened the memory at all. So you were you

1021
01:03:48,599 --> 01:03:50,440
were on the track of saying that what you think

1022
01:03:50,519 --> 01:03:53,639
happened is that The reason it's the square I ascribed

1023
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:56,039
to Howard is because perhaps Rex told Howard and then

1024
01:03:56,159 --> 01:03:57,960
everyone heard it first from Howard after that.

1025
01:03:59,679 --> 01:04:03,199
Speaker 4: That that was my feeling. Well, I mean, you know, basically,

1026
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:12,400
Howard was just sort of bouncing around the halls WrestleMania, WrestleMania, WrestleMania,

1027
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,000
and I felt like he had just gone in and

1028
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:17,239
said to them too, and he goes yeah, Vince goes, yeah,

1029
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,960
that's it. That's probably what happened, and everyone just said

1030
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,159
how must have thought that up, and and not to

1031
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,280
take away from how he won IOTA or anything. I

1032
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,079
just I honestly think the first utterance of it was

1033
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:33,159
what Steve and I heard. However, that got communicated to

1034
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,519
to Howie or with an airshot of Howie, and how

1035
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:39,760
he lit up on it and wanted to share it

1036
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,920
with Vince, which is very typical of Howard. So it

1037
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,440
doesn't matter who came up with it. It was just

1038
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:49,679
a great name. But I just thought it was very interesting. However,

1039
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,719
it came about that was my reckoning of it, that's all.

1040
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:54,639
Speaker 5: And we do want to let everybody in the lapsed

1041
01:04:54,679 --> 01:04:57,400
fan solar system know that Brian will be at gamer

1042
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,679
Con Connecticut coming up soon at the Mohican Sun Casino

1043
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,760
March fifteenth and sixteenth. He'll have his own booth an

1044
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,760
artist's alley at the show. He'll have signed and numbered

1045
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,599
prints of the WrestleMania logo, among other things he worked

1046
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:12,039
on available, So you really want to stop by if

1047
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:14,039
you're in the area and say hi to Brian because

1048
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:16,079
he's a friend of the show now too. So just

1049
01:05:16,119 --> 01:05:20,199
go online to ctgamercon dot com ct for Connecticut for

1050
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,000
more information on the venue and the event, and we

1051
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:26,760
look forward to seeing listeners of the podcast at the event. Well,

1052
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,800
the table has been set wonderfully by former WWF creative

1053
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,519
director Brian Penry here in the first part of our

1054
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:36,400
conversation getting us acquainted with how he became acquainted with

1055
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,960
the McMahons and then later climbed the organization as it

1056
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,880
grew so fast, designing the WWF logo, the WrestleMania logo.

1057
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:43,800
There's more I imagine to digging in new there and

1058
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,840
part two of our conversations so keep your eyes peeled

1059
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,840
and your earspeeled to our feed here as we present

1060
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,719
part two of our conversation with Brian Penry in his

1061
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:54,840
time in the World Wrestling Federation. We'll see you then.

1062
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:59,920
ISIL what is a production of the Lab Entertainment Group.

1063
01:06:00,119 --> 01:06:02,599
Speaker 2: Its content is intended for private use only.