Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What, What's gonna happen?
Speaker 2: What? My guest today is someone I've spoken with at
Speaker 2: length before. He's very knowledgeable, he's a fun guy to
Speaker 2: be around. He's the host of the Occult Rejects podcast. Nick.
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1: Man, Thank you, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were getting a little rolly there in the
Speaker 2: uh before I hit record. I wanted to say something
Speaker 2: about a queeno before we move off of that real quick.
Speaker 2: This is what I've heard, and you can tell me
Speaker 2: if this is true or not. But I heard that
Speaker 2: a Quino went to the castle of Vivelsburg where him
Speaker 2: that was Himmler's castle, Darren Boar, and did it did
Speaker 2: like a stay over there.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, honest with you, is probably a lot
Speaker 1: about that guy I've never looked into before. Yeah, sure, sure,
Speaker 1: things that have come up with like psyops and like
Speaker 1: the Franklin.
Speaker 2: Stan Well yeah, I mean especially the Syop thing, because
Speaker 2: I think he last. It's been a while since I
Speaker 2: looked into him. But one of the things that I
Speaker 2: came across was, you know, he was very very much
Speaker 2: involved with government and military and he was in a
Speaker 2: program called a siop. They actually used the word syop
Speaker 2: in the program, and I don't remember anything else about it,
Speaker 2: but I thought that was crazy. What a character though.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I'm gonna look into it. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure that that was an accurate source about the
Speaker 2: Vivelsburg Castle. If that's true, that's very crazy because that
Speaker 2: was Himmler's castle. Himmler started the like he had a
Speaker 2: he had like a knockoff nights temp far thing going
Speaker 2: on there with the s s Oh was.
Speaker 1: That the big castle where he did have like all
Speaker 1: those he had that thing on the floor and he
Speaker 1: had yeah all that, Okay, yeah, I didn't actually know
Speaker 1: the specific name to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so he had a black son on the
Speaker 2: floor symbol, and apparently a queno went in there and
Speaker 2: was doing something and he he I think that he
Speaker 2: got some ideas from the Nazis' concept of the black
Speaker 2: Sun and was working with something like that, like like
Speaker 2: a like an inner Earth energy kind of a thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe, But I would say like even from like you know,
Speaker 1: because we're talking about I had a guest on that
Speaker 1: was from the table head and from even a lot
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I got from them. They they
Speaker 1: he at least and he was friends with a Queeno.
Speaker 1: Seemed to be very much into mathematics. Actually, so I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if there's anything with just the design itself and
Speaker 1: the mathematics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not trying to give
Speaker 1: them credit on anything, but I mean they are The
Speaker 1: guy that was on my show was the obviously educated.
Speaker 1: He wasn't fucking stupid. Just say, yeah, so so.
Speaker 2: You had a guy on he was or he is
Speaker 2: in the temple I set a quino started that, and
Speaker 2: this guy was very versed in math or what about
Speaker 2: sacred geometry?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, because like at
Speaker 1: one point, like the jin on the show asked him
Speaker 1: a question that was like from one of his friends.
Speaker 1: Like he told one of his friends he was going
Speaker 1: on the show with this guy, and he's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you gotta ask him this question because he
Speaker 1: knew who he was and he asked him. I couldn't
Speaker 1: remember what it was, but he spent about twenty minutes
Speaker 1: trying to like basically explaining like the sigil. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know that logo, and I was like what, I
Speaker 1: got lost. At one point, I was like you guys
Speaker 1: lost me. Fuck yeah, that was like any Hey, I'm
Speaker 1: not giving the guy like I think I just whatever
Speaker 1: he's I don't think he's.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hm. When you were and I don't know
Speaker 2: how much you like to go into this topic, so
Speaker 2: you know, just feel free to answer it however you
Speaker 2: want or not answer at all. But like I know
Speaker 2: that you were in an order at one point.
Speaker 1: Yep, you can ask anything you want, okay, So yeah, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing is nothing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, cool? Awesome, man? So what order were you in?
Speaker 2: And what I was getting at is like, did how
Speaker 2: much did that come into play for you? Like shapes, sigils,
Speaker 2: maybe even math? How much of that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: did you work with?
Speaker 1: I mean again, like I would say, these places place
Speaker 1: suggests you to do things. It's not like my experience
Speaker 1: at the beginning, at least the first you know, within
Speaker 1: the first four degrees, I would assume none of them
Speaker 1: really kind of force you to learn anything, but they're suggested.
Speaker 1: But my practice sigils, yes, shapes, yes, what was the other? Oh,
Speaker 1: Jamatria and math I got into later on Because I'll
Speaker 1: be totally honest with you, at the beginning, it was
Speaker 1: just a little too intimidating. I really wasn't sure what
Speaker 1: the hell it was all about. I wasn't really into
Speaker 1: the Kabbala as much like the first probably like a
Speaker 1: year or so, maybe a year and a half of
Speaker 1: getting into magic. But once I did, I started to
Speaker 1: get a little bit more of the idea of Jamatria,
Speaker 1: and then I started, you know, math was definitely a
Speaker 1: part of it. Even when he got into the Kabbala
Speaker 1: and all the numbered spheres and all that stuff, you
Speaker 1: start realizing, you know, the for a reason numbers are important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is Hebrew coming to play there?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Even like some
Speaker 1: of the rituals that are suggested to do in these orders,
Speaker 1: in that most ceremonial magicians will use, like the pentagram
Speaker 1: and the hexagram ritual, they will have some Hebrew in them.
Speaker 1: The star Ruby that Alista Crowley wrote, which a lot
Speaker 1: of Thalamite so Oto people will use. People are even
Speaker 1: into his stuff. That's a Greek you know, So let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, you're actually using like different languages.
Speaker 2: I've always seen Hebrew as ay, almost like a very numerical,
Speaker 2: very mathematical kind of a language.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean they even kind of have some of the
Speaker 2: Hebrew figures even look kind of like numbers in a way,
Speaker 2: like with the angles and stuff, and like just the
Speaker 2: way they're like formed and everything. And I had this
Speaker 2: guy on who was breaking down. He was looking for
Speaker 2: mathematical code within the Torah, and so you know, I
Speaker 2: think I think what he was really looking for was
Speaker 2: like some sort of a Bible code, But he went
Speaker 2: to the Torah instances because the code was showing up
Speaker 2: big time because of the Hebrew.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and English do and and the Hebrew figures. This
Speaker 2: is what he was explaining to me. They had multiple meanings,
Speaker 2: almost like a hieroglyph.
Speaker 1: Would yes, they do. They do, Yeah, like a ox
Speaker 1: back of your head, open hand, closed hand, gold yeah, crazy, razy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have multiple meanings to him, and they were they
Speaker 1: were designed like that from inception. Most most believe it
Speaker 1: or not, most languages, if you were to look into it,
Speaker 1: most languages that inception are actually created with the numerical
Speaker 1: system together. They are actually tied numerically. Each letter has
Speaker 1: a numerical value. I mean, yeah, what is alpha numeric system?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah. There was a guy that I
Speaker 2: was looking into briefly. I don't remember his name right now,
Speaker 2: but he wrote a book about the magic of runes,
Speaker 2: the Nordic Runes that seemed to be very numerica as well.
Speaker 1: What's that even flowers?
Speaker 2: Maybe no, I don't think so. This guy was This
Speaker 2: guy was from like the seventeen hundreds or something.
Speaker 1: I think, oh okay.
Speaker 2: Way back, old old school stuff. He was like I
Speaker 2: found him because I was looking into like Tycho bra
Speaker 2: and uh oh okay yeah, and uh Kelpius, Johannis Kelpius. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: And there was some guy that was running with them
Speaker 2: who was kind of a part of their crew I think,
Speaker 2: who got really into the ruins and he wrote a
Speaker 2: book like he just dedicated a big chunk of his
Speaker 2: life to like looking into the magical side of the rooms.
Speaker 2: I'll try to find it later and give you the
Speaker 2: name if you're interested.
Speaker 1: Those guys were real big into if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: kind of like out of space.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were early. They were early
Speaker 2: in that field.
Speaker 1: Like whoa, yeah, I haven't had impressive dude.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of those guys that are very interesting
Speaker 2: because it's like you can see where society takes these
Speaker 2: like shifts. It's like, okay, where we had two guys
Speaker 2: at one point alive together with Thomas Addison had and
Speaker 2: Nikola Tesla, and you can see where the powers that
Speaker 2: be decided to use the tech and go with like Edison.
Speaker 2: But if we would have went with Tesla, we'd probably
Speaker 2: be living in a different society right now. We'd be
Speaker 2: our approach to like energy and everything would be totally
Speaker 2: different and resources and everything. And I think it's the
Speaker 2: same like Tycho and some of those guys, Like I
Speaker 2: think they were at like this pivotal point in history
Speaker 2: and their work kind of got left behind and they
Speaker 2: you know, it's like society went with another version of
Speaker 2: the space concept and what we think about it with that,
Speaker 2: I'd love to do something more on him because he
Speaker 2: I was just kind of browsing him, man, you know,
Speaker 2: I was looking more into Entakelpias and I found Tycho
Speaker 2: Braw But all those guys are fascinating.
Speaker 1: These are one interesting thing though, when he start looking
Speaker 1: into those people and even the people who have set
Speaker 1: the stage of like you know, at first we thought
Speaker 1: we were the son of the universe. Then we thought
Speaker 1: the son was the son of the Universe. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: those motherfuckers were cultists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we.
Speaker 1: Have a cultists who are telling us what's in disguies.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, think about it. And then we got asked
Speaker 1: to doing it now, which you know, pretty much the
Speaker 1: same shit.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, and then you've got guys who were
Speaker 2: This is one of the craziest things that I've come across,
Speaker 2: is like the esoteric Christians who nobody talks about.
Speaker 1: Well, that was a big thing, like even within the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church. I was gonna even say this before, because
Speaker 1: I do think there might be something there if you're
Speaker 1: still looking like around I think like between like the
Speaker 1: fifteen and seventeen hundreds, like certain people that are well known,
Speaker 1: like within the Catholic Church, even Jesuit priests, they started
Speaker 1: incorporating the Kabbala into the Bible to try to understand
Speaker 1: the better, and supposedly they started getting like breakthroughs, you know,
Speaker 1: like understanding. So there must be something even with that.
Speaker 1: I do wonder, you know, when you even have people
Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church even being like paying mine tobala
Speaker 1: to understand the Bible more.
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, yeah, sure. I had a guy on recently
Speaker 2: and we were talking about how in the Book of Proverbs,
Speaker 2: I think Solomon wrote that, and he's talking about he
Speaker 2: keeps talking about wisdom, right, but like wisdom with like
Speaker 2: a capital W. He's talking about wisdom. He's personifying wisdom
Speaker 2: as if it's an entity or a person or a personality.
Speaker 2: And we were talking about we were talking about, like
Speaker 2: what if because the Gnastics said wisdom, they call wisdom sophia, right,
Speaker 2: So we were talking about we were trying to figure
Speaker 2: out is the Bible in Proverbs or is Solomon alluding
Speaker 2: to like a spirit or an entity here when he's
Speaker 2: talking about wisdom. And the more I looked into it,
Speaker 2: the more I kept seeing that the Uhanna had to
Speaker 2: go to the Kabbala to find the answers for that,
Speaker 2: because there's I've got a thing in my phone where
Speaker 2: I went and I found the Kabbala had all this
Speaker 2: extra information on that, Like I'm trying to remember the
Speaker 2: terms in there, like world tree stuff. It's just crazy stuff.
Speaker 2: It was over my head.
Speaker 1: I feel like when you take Catholicism and try mixing
Speaker 1: like the Kabala into and you actually kind of berth
Speaker 1: out in a sense almost like uh narcissism. M hm,
Speaker 1: because you start like well her medicabala that okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you can start almost attributing like certain characters for
Speaker 1: certain roles depending on how like what's it easier for
Speaker 1: you to understand or whatever, So I have to explain. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you start getting like almost like kind of like a
Speaker 1: cult Christian Catholicism almost extent when it comes to nacissism.
Speaker 2: Well, how many so you were working Hebrew and.
Speaker 1: I'm still big into that now, and oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've used Hebrew Jamatria before. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm where I am with Jamatria. I think it's interesting,
Speaker 2: but I'd like to know more about how it works,
Speaker 2: like like how what's the technology behind your matria? You know,
Speaker 2: it's like, I know there's now we have it in
Speaker 2: like a software form where you can just get online
Speaker 2: and punch in numbers and get phrases back. But what's
Speaker 2: like the technology behind that? You know?
Speaker 1: Only I think if it's really being used a lot,
Speaker 1: maybe cipher's or it's just to replace a word with
Speaker 1: something that has the same value to it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: like ciphers are kind of huge. I think it also
Speaker 1: just does help, like believe it or not. I think
Speaker 1: like when you do actually see other words that equal
Speaker 1: the same value, you know how Like they can say
Speaker 1: like a symbol has like seven meanings to it, Like
Speaker 1: sometimes I do think like, yeah, that's one of them,
Speaker 1: and like some somewhere in there you'll find a match
Speaker 1: that I think you'll be like, all right, that actually
Speaker 1: fits in with everything. It's not to explained, but like
Speaker 1: there's evening that I've noticed, like with ocultism, certain things
Speaker 1: that like you'll just start getting eyeparts sense almost, Like
Speaker 1: I do think that that is a part. I mean
Speaker 1: when the polymaths we're into occultism, they included physiology into
Speaker 1: the understanding of it. So you stop wondering, like is
Speaker 1: that part of it too?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it all seems to be connected. It all seems
Speaker 2: to be connected.
Speaker 1: That's really I'm bigging to myself. Is actually trying to
Speaker 1: leak the eyes on the brain and like a cult
Speaker 1: symbolism within the body. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like we have a physical connection. I'll
Speaker 2: just use that word again, like a physical connection to
Speaker 2: all this stuff. Like I don't know, what do you think, man, Like,
Speaker 2: do you think that we are do you think there's
Speaker 2: another realm like right up next to ours, or multiple
Speaker 2: realms and we like interact with that.
Speaker 1: It could be possible. Yeah, I think that at some point,
Speaker 1: like when you have a magical experience, like I think
Speaker 1: I've told you that, you know, it's more that's like
Speaker 1: to me practicing real magic, I do think you're kind
Speaker 1: of like separating your soul from your body, and like
Speaker 1: if you do do something to that extent, you're not
Speaker 1: like in this reality anymore the way you see it,
Speaker 1: because you're not in the flesh like it's it's just different.
Speaker 1: So I do think magic like you're already kind of
Speaker 1: throwing yourself into another reality. And I have heard other
Speaker 1: people of which I think in Nokia magic maybe is
Speaker 1: like kind of like picking times and places that you
Speaker 1: want to go to certain visions that I've heard other
Speaker 1: people see that like almost gives you like an idea
Speaker 1: that there's options of like choices or times that you
Speaker 1: can go, like visions like oh, I'll go there, that
Speaker 1: looks interesting, I'll go to that one. It's almost like
Speaker 1: windows are doors, And I do think that those are
Speaker 1: options of places to go almost like oh, if you
Speaker 1: ever watched noway you know how those motherfuckers are. Like,
Speaker 1: I do think as silly as that sounds, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I've done it or even want to entertain it,
Speaker 1: because I probably don't, but I do think that's possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I've heard you talk about crossing the Abyss
Speaker 2: and we can get into that if you want to
Speaker 2: tell all that today, you can. But that's why I
Speaker 2: asked you about the realms thing, because I'm trying to
Speaker 2: I'm trying to comprehend what that means, like what crossing
Speaker 2: the abyss means, because to me it and I could
Speaker 2: be wrong, but to me, it kind of sounds like
Speaker 2: stepping into like another realm. But maybe that's not the
Speaker 2: right terminology. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I for me like and I hate trying to
Speaker 1: explain like this because I don't want to try to
Speaker 1: make it sound like edgy or like dark or anything.
Speaker 1: But like I just like, I guess, like, if you
Speaker 1: can't experience death, what's after death? Unless you have experienced
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And it's not going to
Speaker 1: be in physical form, It's going to be a completely
Speaker 1: different you know, you're in spirit, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying totally different. You're going somewhere else.
Speaker 1: You're totally different on I guess rules of law, how
Speaker 1: reality is to be solid?
Speaker 2: Okay, what about dimensions?
Speaker 1: Instead of using there would probably be dimensions. I mean,
Speaker 1: it would probably be the easiest way to explain it.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what it does. Seem like, it's just
Speaker 1: different dimensions.
Speaker 2: I mean that that's certainly the term they're using with
Speaker 2: science today.
Speaker 1: They really yeah, yeah, I can see that, making it
Speaker 1: a lot easier to say, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I've got because I just did
Speaker 2: a big thing on because yeah, yeah, I just did
Speaker 2: a big thing on decoding CERN. I did a huge
Speaker 2: occult decode on CURN recently, and I got all that
Speaker 2: stuff like swirling around in my head. But I was
Speaker 2: looking into like articles and I was, I was. I
Speaker 2: even got online and I saw like I was watching
Speaker 2: like talks that the physicists at CERN was giving, and
Speaker 2: they're all talking about dimensions like they're they're they admit
Speaker 2: that they're tapping into another dimension. And and this guy,
Speaker 2: I'm certain the physicists was talking about how to create
Speaker 2: black holes and how that interacts with our dimensions. So
Speaker 2: that does seem to be the word they're using.
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a fitting word, for sure.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, when you say that, I just said,
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound too sci fi either. I
Speaker 1: hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Man. I'm laughing because when
Speaker 2: you said that, I started thinking about what's his name
Speaker 2: who was who was doing magic with Parsons before he
Speaker 2: started the Church of Scientology, Hulbert Hobard because he would
Speaker 2: make things very.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I was writing sci fi books. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you already do what to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think you're good, my friend. You're not
Speaker 2: You're not taking it that far.
Speaker 1: I'm still confused on what the fuck it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so mm hmm, but h yeah, yeah, I would. I
Speaker 1: would just say I do think to an extent, I
Speaker 1: do think you do actually kind of it's a your
Speaker 1: death experience for sure. Put it that way. So, I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: and it was not what I thought magic was going
Speaker 1: to be about at all. I did not think that
Speaker 1: that was a part of it.
Speaker 2: So what was a near death experience for you? Was
Speaker 2: it just okay? Was it like, did you have multiple
Speaker 2: near death experiences while you're practicing magic? Or did you
Speaker 2: have one crazy supernatural or whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: one one crazy experience were you.
Speaker 1: I've probably, oh god, I don't know how many times,
Speaker 1: probably I don't know, six to seven times. I probably
Speaker 1: actually did it on purpose. Three times I did it
Speaker 1: in like a week. And then actually, I do think
Speaker 1: that kind of fucks you up if you do it
Speaker 1: too too often. But I mean it's done through like
Speaker 1: meditation that you'll I do think that like when the
Speaker 1: magic happens, I do think you're actually like you're kind
Speaker 1: of slowing down your body and you're slipping out a
Speaker 1: little bit, And I do think you you click out
Speaker 1: for a little bit for a second and you go
Speaker 1: somewhere that is that here for sure. And then there's
Speaker 1: times where like now I haven't done that in a minute,
Speaker 1: I'll be totally honest with you, I'll take myself to
Speaker 1: the edge, like whenever this happens. Now there's always a
Speaker 1: set of visuals and feelings that always come with it,
Speaker 1: Like I already always know like after this, it's like
Speaker 1: you know, do it? I literally you know? And so
Speaker 1: I know, like if I start thinking of so, like
Speaker 1: you could take yourself out of it for me, so
Speaker 1: I'll take myself to the like the I guess to
Speaker 1: the ledge, and I do get benefits out of that
Speaker 1: with meditating, I do think, but I have that like
Speaker 1: gone that far, but uh yeah, I do honestly think
Speaker 1: that when you when you do that, even from the
Speaker 1: feelings that I've had and what goes on with the
Speaker 1: body and even the situation with that one time I
Speaker 1: said it, I did it a couple of times within
Speaker 1: a week. I mean I actually was so physically uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: end up going to the hospital and I did have
Speaker 1: issues and it was like stuff that never reoccurred again.
Speaker 1: So that was even even like my eyes or even
Speaker 1: like one pupil was bigger than the other one for
Speaker 1: like weeks.
Speaker 2: After doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've even posted on Twitter. Was years ago,
Speaker 1: like one time I brought myself really close to a
Speaker 1: meditated like that real close. It stopped and my pupils
Speaker 1: were fucked up. I even took a picture of him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that sounds like you, like I said earlier,
Speaker 2: like it's almost like there's a physical connection with us
Speaker 2: and you know whatever we want to call that other dimension.
Speaker 2: It's like because that sounds like you stepped into another
Speaker 2: dimension and when you came back or came back into
Speaker 2: yourself into this one, like it messed with you physically.
Speaker 1: Actually, I do think, I actually think in order to
Speaker 1: do what you're doing, I do think you may actually
Speaker 1: like burn shit up and you stuff in your body.
Speaker 1: As crazy as it sounds, like some.
Speaker 2: Kind of a fuel, like a metaphysical feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah that or it's like the kind of all you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: body runs on electricity. It kind of like you have
Speaker 1: to it back out, kind of like you kind of
Speaker 1: alternating current.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. While you're talking, like,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about stuff I've read concerning Tibetan monks when
Speaker 2: they get super deep into meditation and and even remote viewers.
Speaker 2: I've heard some crazy stories like that, well that where
Speaker 2: they will like whatever it's called bio relocate or whatever,
Speaker 2: they'll they'll find. So Jock Valet has the story about
Speaker 2: his first time remote viewing with Ingo Swan or something.
Speaker 2: They gave him coordinates and they sent him to like
Speaker 2: a top of a mountain somewhere like it was real cold,
Speaker 2: and he said he felt the cold, you know, and
Speaker 2: there was a snowy mountain peak and he actually went
Speaker 2: there for a minute or two and he and he
Speaker 2: it physically was shivering. That's what this kind of that's
Speaker 2: what this reminds me of, at least, I don't I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to like take your Oh.
Speaker 1: I think astral projection is like real close to like
Speaker 1: the same. You know, yeah, my experience might be a
Speaker 1: little bit further, but I think actual projections like I
Speaker 1: would consider that magic too in a sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going. That's what I was
Speaker 2: gonna say, man, because I mean, you're.
Speaker 1: I would even say, is that picking one of the windows? Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, maybe that is Maybe that's
Speaker 1: maybe that's more advanced than what I've done. I have
Speaker 1: no idea.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what Levey's kids were talking about. They talked
Speaker 2: about how they were taught to go into the astro realm.
Speaker 1: There's you know what you haven't call Crusher that's okay,
Speaker 1: you should have it. But he's he does ship like that,
Speaker 1: and he's he's friends with a lot of what's his name,
Speaker 1: Carl Crush, call Crusher Okay, yeah, yeah, he's actually if
Speaker 1: you get in touch with him now like this, he's
Speaker 1: my boy and everything. But like people messing with He's
Speaker 1: kind of throw himself right into the lines. Then, Jesus,
Speaker 1: you know who these people are, right, He's getting involved
Speaker 1: with people that are you know, claiming. I think I've
Speaker 1: actually worked with the government remote remote viewing.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: To him, talk to him. He's a good dude, good dude,
Speaker 1: really nice guy. I have him on the show all
Speaker 1: the time. Talk to him about remote viewing.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I love I love remote And he does
Speaker 2: it himself too.
Speaker 1: He does it himself too, And there's been certain things.
Speaker 1: I you know, I think he's legit. I'll just be honest.
Speaker 1: I think I think he could do it.
Speaker 2: I think it's legit too.
Speaker 1: I mean, he told me that was in my closet
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't have Like really, yeah, mother fucking man,
Speaker 1: that's fuck. It actually waited me the funk out tell
Speaker 1: you the truth. He did it like after a show bullshit,
Speaker 1: And he mentioned something about some ship close and I
Speaker 1: was like wow.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've I've always thought that, I've always had
Speaker 2: the inclination that something real is happening with remote viewers.
Speaker 2: I knew a remote viewer as well, and they just
Speaker 2: they just don't They're not They don't be s dude,
Speaker 2: they don't make up stories like they're they're just like,
Speaker 2: you know, it is what it is, and we have
Speaker 2: these long standing government per like if it didn't work,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have a twenty year remote viewing program. But
Speaker 2: we have documents to prove that they have.
Speaker 1: I think this stuff is legit. And be honest, most
Speaker 1: of those people probably like you're saying and telling the truth.
Speaker 1: It's just the understand the way they're presenting it and
Speaker 1: telling you what's really going on, that's the fucked up problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then I tell you that this is like magic or
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere and the government's making them be able to
Speaker 1: do this. They're actually pushing like occult principles onto this person.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's like practically almost okay, ultra,
Speaker 1: if you're going to make somebody be able to do this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my opinion, you know what I'm saying. They're not
Speaker 1: explaining like these are the side effects of having a
Speaker 1: magical experience, you know, and and death may be evolved
Speaker 1: in that. That's my opinion. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That's the whole secret that they're leaving out my opinion
Speaker 1: part of it. But if you told people everybody they
Speaker 1: have a magical experience, you actually have to kind of
Speaker 1: have an experience like Jesus and die. And if they
Speaker 1: thought that everybody who actually literally practices magic and understands
Speaker 1: the occult, like people running the world, they do that constantly,
Speaker 1: that's so fucking freaky. I don't think I think that
Speaker 1: would actually be one of the secrets they don't want
Speaker 1: people to know, because that actually sounds sick if you
Speaker 1: start thinking about it.
Speaker 2: I've had this thought too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if someone's willing to keep taking that chance
Speaker 1: knowing it may not come back, what do you think
Speaker 1: they think about everybody else? If they're a maglomaniac. That's
Speaker 1: why they have no problem killing people, because they have
Speaker 1: no problem if they happen today fucking around with magic
Speaker 1: to gain knowledge that others don't know.
Speaker 2: No, it does seem like an occult technology, like going
Speaker 2: back to a remote viewing too. That that seems like
Speaker 2: an occult method or or a magical method that the
Speaker 2: government found out about. And they try to make it
Speaker 2: look scientific. That's what they do with everything. They try
Speaker 2: to cloak it in science and make it and act
Speaker 2: like there's nothing spirit or you know, spiritual or magical happening.
Speaker 1: I think our country in Germany are like perfectionate.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah for sure, Germany for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah is magic effects and stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah that if if we didn't get it
Speaker 2: from the Nazis, the Nazis got it from us.
Speaker 1: Sometimes if you look back firing up certain things, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: who actually started this first? It's like it's like you
Speaker 1: see something that's like you see how it eventually grew
Speaker 1: into something bigger than Yeah, and not just even with us,
Speaker 1: like the cub Scouts, like like the Nazis actually brown
Speaker 1: coats from my scam yeah yeah, oh yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Like you know, yeah, they were. I was reading something
Speaker 2: recently where the Nazis were over over in German and
Speaker 2: like their newspapers and stuff, they were praising the United
Speaker 2: States for their eugenics program back in the early thirties.
Speaker 2: We had we had a eugenics program. Not to get
Speaker 2: too off topic here, but.
Speaker 1: Logs were crazy into that ship.
Speaker 2: We they our government seems like they kind of started
Speaker 2: to disband the eugenics thing in the thirties and four,
Speaker 2: but before that, the Nazis loved it. They modeled what
Speaker 2: they did after some of the stuff we were doing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, man, like who got it from who? And
Speaker 2: it's not just the Nazis, Like before the Nazis came
Speaker 2: into power, there were there was a huge occult revival
Speaker 2: happening over there in the early early to late maybe early,
Speaker 2: but definitely late eighteen hundreds, turn of the century, Theosophy,
Speaker 2: Golden Dawn. Oh, it's it was a huge. The Masons
Speaker 2: were their huge occult revival happening in Germany, and I
Speaker 2: think it affected it sent ripples over here to us
Speaker 2: popping off for the did you say fifteen hundreds, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it goes back to two hundreds.
Speaker 1: Huge.
Speaker 2: Oh it goes clear back to Paracelsis. Yeah, into fifteen
Speaker 2: hundreds for sure. Man, for sure. I'm selling it short
Speaker 2: by saying eighteen hundreds, because you're absolutely right that that
Speaker 2: occult movement. See, I saw it picking up in my research.
Speaker 2: I saw a huge, huge pick up and in the
Speaker 2: occult just it's just interesting the occult over there in
Speaker 2: the late eighteen hundreds. But it didn't start then. I mean,
Speaker 2: like you're saying a.
Speaker 1: Lot of a cultist that might have came from other
Speaker 1: places and somehow they always make it to Germany and
Speaker 1: either yeah, hanging out a book too, whether they're you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It's just really interesting. It's like
Speaker 1: you almost think like they're going there for a reason. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's and it's also it's like not just Germany,
Speaker 2: but it's a lot of places like right next to Germany,
Speaker 2: like Basl, Switzerland or yeah, right there on the border.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one that does pop up often.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a Basil was a while. That's a fun
Speaker 2: deep dive, man, like the stuff that was coming out
Speaker 2: of Basl in the fifteen hundred. It's like some of
Speaker 2: the books. I'm trying to remember the name of one.
Speaker 2: I think it's the Arab Hotel of Magic. You ever
Speaker 2: heard of that book?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Comy that on the show a
Speaker 1: long time ago. Yeah, yeah, I think that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it comes out of Basl.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are, but there are a lot of books
Speaker 1: that came out.
Speaker 2: Of around that book is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are those old old books. There was stuff
Speaker 1: that I used to look at when I was in
Speaker 1: the Oto.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah, let's let's talk about that, man, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't what what what do you want to do here?
Speaker 2: Because I I I'm having fun with the conversation, but
Speaker 2: I also want if you want to be able to
Speaker 2: tell your story about the abyss, I want to give
Speaker 2: you that opportunity or really, shoot you should we let's
Speaker 2: go into let's go into what got you into Oto
Speaker 2: because I actually don't know this. I'd love to know this. Uh.
Speaker 1: Got into conspiracies Pylorisle twenty ten and around them for
Speaker 1: me when I first kind of like started coming across stuff,
Speaker 1: a lot of it was Jordan Maxwell, Michaelssary, and David
Speaker 1: I Project Camelot. If anybody remembers them, well, so I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think of other people. Who's that other guy?
Speaker 1: He's Mark Passio, He's still around. Uh. They all focused
Speaker 1: on the occult a lot at some point, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So that kind of got me a
Speaker 1: little bit more interested in the occult aspect of conspiracies,
Speaker 1: you know, and I started to believe that this stuff
Speaker 1: was probably legit. You know. I did think magic was
Speaker 1: possibly real. There was like something hidden out there that
Speaker 1: we don't understand, forces, energies, whatever, and uh so I
Speaker 1: was always kind of like big into that, and I
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, just whenever I got into
Speaker 1: conspiracy and stuff. You know, we listened to a lot
Speaker 1: of other things, but that was just the main thing
Speaker 1: that I focused on and listening about different types of
Speaker 1: beliefs and all this and that. And then it shot
Speaker 1: like looking into orders and like, oh, who's doing what,
Speaker 1: who's where of this and that? And you know, I
Speaker 1: the same shit that a lot of us podcast about.
Speaker 1: Literally I was interested in stuff like that, and then
Speaker 1: like one day it's just a click in my head.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, I still don't know what goddamn thing,
Speaker 1: what the fuck magic is? Like, I just following names
Speaker 1: and dates and orders and places like I still haven't
Speaker 1: figured out what the hell are they doing? You know.
Speaker 1: So I was like, let me still looking into this stuff.
Speaker 1: I started looking into stuff like online, and for me,
Speaker 1: I just I wasn't into witchcraft really. I just felt like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it. I just felt
Speaker 1: like ceremonial magic and orders might have been a little
Speaker 1: bit more regimented and actually like kind of like a system.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be like involved in something where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you just throw some lavender over your
Speaker 1: shoulder and spin around with a crystal and you get
Speaker 1: to go now, you know, saying I want like there
Speaker 1: to be like some substance to what I'm doing but
Speaker 1: learning actually, so I started like kind of like looking
Speaker 1: into like the Golden Down. I actually wasn't a big
Speaker 1: fan of Croley. So that's why I like looked into
Speaker 1: the Golden Door and stuff wasn't anything near me. I
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna get involved in the Mazons because that would
Speaker 1: take way too long for me to ever get into
Speaker 1: practicing magic. I didn't know if the OTO because of Crowley,
Speaker 1: and I did have some of his books or read
Speaker 1: some of his stuff, you know, some of his books
Speaker 1: all highly suggested to read if you're into that stuff.
Speaker 1: And there was like a book that I had. It
Speaker 1: was Donald Craig. I think it was like the twelve
Speaker 1: or thirteen Lessons in Magic. It was one of the
Speaker 1: first books I bought to kind of like get into.
Speaker 1: And he did quote Crowley and like some of the
Speaker 1: stuff in there might have been Crowley's. So I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, let me see if there's an OTO. I
Speaker 1: was like, fuck, there's one twenty five minutes away. I
Speaker 1: was like, damn, I guess I'll just go there, and uh,
Speaker 1: they're not that secret to find again. I found one
Speaker 1: name in my house not too far away. They all
Speaker 1: have like social media somehow they'll they'll be like even
Speaker 1: on the website, the oto website, they'll let you know
Speaker 1: where their orders are so you can contact them if
Speaker 1: you want to go. And I found that one and
Speaker 1: I contacted him somehow its Facebook, email something whatever, one
Speaker 1: of their contacts, and I told him I was interested
Speaker 1: in coming to Anostic mass. And I think they gave
Speaker 1: me their calendar or whatever. I already saw the calendar
Speaker 1: or knew the date and told them which one I
Speaker 1: wanted to come for, and they're like, all right, the
Speaker 1: day of just let us know. I was like, all right, cool.
Speaker 1: The day he emailed them, let them know, and then
Speaker 1: they gave me like it was like obviously, like kind
Speaker 1: of like a copy paste thing. It was like directions
Speaker 1: from all different places the address, you know. The situation.
Speaker 1: One thing I did think was weird was a little
Speaker 1: fucking creepy about it off the bat was that. But
Speaker 1: I understand now because of the situation. At first, I
Speaker 1: was like, yo, what the fuck is going on? It
Speaker 1: was like in an apartment building in Queens and there
Speaker 1: was a park across the street and this apartment building
Speaker 1: like you need a key to get into the fucker,
Speaker 1: all right. So like so it's basically in the directions.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know this park benches across the street
Speaker 1: from the gate, go hang out there and we'll come
Speaker 1: out and get you. And I'm just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is already fucking weird. And like I turned the
Speaker 1: corner because I parked a few blocks away. It's Queen's
Speaker 1: and there was a bunch of people standing there. So
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I was like, at least not
Speaker 1: sanding me here by myself. Like I could already tell
Speaker 1: just from looking at them they must be there for that,
Speaker 1: you know, by the way they were dressed. I was like, yep,
Speaker 1: that's them. Whatever ended up going in it was a
Speaker 1: Gnostic mass. Uh, it was a little different than that.
Speaker 1: You can find it on YouTube. You find it if,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you really want an honest representation of it,
Speaker 1: I would try to find anything David Shoemaker's won on
Speaker 1: video of Vimeo the Gnostic Mass. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: a little different, but I didn't know. I kind of
Speaker 1: had an idea what I was getting into. The difference
Speaker 1: is on YouTube, you will not see the boobies. You'll
Speaker 1: not see tits in the Gnostic Mass. So that that
Speaker 1: took me off guard because I had not I've watched
Speaker 1: the YouTube version, and I watched it. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, this is kind of like church, you know,
Speaker 1: for them, it's a little weird, but you know, it's different.
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I can handle this. It
Speaker 1: was like, you know, nothing crazy, and uh yeah. I
Speaker 1: was there and all of a sudden, fucking tits around.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, was it anything like the some
Speaker 2: of the scenes and strange Angel. Did you ever see
Speaker 2: that Jack Parsons show.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well the priestess is topless for a part
Speaker 1: yeah part yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, yeah, you
Speaker 1: will get that. And uh, I mean it's like a
Speaker 1: literally like a few minutes, well, you know whatever. It
Speaker 1: freaked me out and I was like, if it against
Speaker 1: any different than this, I'm getting the fuck out of you.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, and some somehow that wasn't weird enough
Speaker 1: that I probably stayed about six years after that, I
Speaker 1: did the second time I went back, though, it was
Speaker 1: for classes, because that was I mean, they did offer classes.
Speaker 1: They had like history classes too on like certain people
Speaker 1: or certain like errors maybe or types of magic or
Speaker 1: you know people, occultists. You know, they were covered stuff
Speaker 1: like that too. It wasn't just always sure you know,
Speaker 1: uh gnostic mass and rituals. So I did do a
Speaker 1: lot of those things, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: there's some sort of benefit here, and like I can
Speaker 1: meet people and get ideas, you know, to bounce ideas around,
Speaker 1: learn from. But obviously I didn't stay. You know, eventually
Speaker 1: I realized this, this isn't the place for me. It was interesting.
Speaker 1: I I'm glad I went because I do think like
Speaker 1: by the time I left, I knew like who I
Speaker 1: wanted to be and who I didn't want to be. Left.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking about it in these I went through
Speaker 2: a couple of degrees too. I'll just do like, okay,
Speaker 2: well that's what I was kind of going to allude to.
Speaker 2: It's like i've worked a job. I'm thinking about one
Speaker 2: of the jobs in particular I've worked and I was
Speaker 2: there for six six years as well. And when you
Speaker 2: when you're when you're in something like a job or
Speaker 2: when you spend that much time doing something, you become
Speaker 2: part of the place, It becomes part of you. So
Speaker 2: I imagine you learned a ton six years. Is you
Speaker 2: learn a lot of years?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Oh for sure, I would say. I mean
Speaker 1: throughout that time, my idea of magic, even though it
Speaker 1: was never what I thought it was, that had changed
Speaker 1: my understanding of the things that I studied. Again, like
Speaker 1: I had even said, I didn't really get into Kabala
Speaker 1: my first year year and a half, and like I
Speaker 1: was in the Oto for a good part of that
Speaker 1: and like it is heavily cabalistic, and I still was
Speaker 1: just like, eh, like I'm afraid. Yeah, I finally got
Speaker 1: into it. I was like fuck, I was like, what
Speaker 1: was I waiting for? I was like, I love this ship.
Speaker 1: It's so fucking like mind bending.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. And let me rephrase something that not
Speaker 2: that the Oto became part of you, because that's not
Speaker 2: because you saying you seem like you grow.
Speaker 1: No, I have a few hooks in me, but I
Speaker 1: I there was. Luckily, there were certain things that was
Speaker 1: said why I was there, that they told you at
Speaker 1: one point to go any further, like they did they
Speaker 1: let you know certain things At the end of one
Speaker 1: of the initiations, I was like, well, I will never
Speaker 1: ever be able to do that. So then at that
Speaker 1: point I knew my time was off. But I mean
Speaker 1: I might have stayed longer. I don't think I would
Speaker 1: have been a lifetime person, but it I'm glad I left.
Speaker 1: How much better? Mm hmm. You know, and that and
Speaker 1: not that it was going to make me an evil person.
Speaker 1: I just think like it was extremely liberal.
Speaker 2: Oh, I hear you, extremely okay, M I could see that.
Speaker 2: I could see that. I know there's some there's some
Speaker 2: people who why I'm friends with on Instagram, and it
Speaker 2: seems like the more liberal leaning people tend to be
Speaker 2: in either a cult or like ghost hunting. I don't
Speaker 2: know why that is.
Speaker 1: Oh you're something with that?
Speaker 2: Why that is? But I just said that on the podcast.
Speaker 1: So I'm saying that about any of the ghost hunters
Speaker 1: I've had on my show. But I have noticed that
Speaker 1: for ghost hunters to have on my show.
Speaker 2: It's not all of them.
Speaker 1: No, No, there's something I have noticed. I was like
Speaker 1: with that, What's I was like, it's sort of making
Speaker 1: me wonder, like, what about ghost adventures, like what about
Speaker 1: ghost hunters, Like I wonder what their ideas.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it's because, you know, were they liptards?
Speaker 1: And I never know.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because you know, if you look at like
Speaker 2: not to get or or anything like that. But like,
Speaker 2: but like you know, it has changed, like the gold
Speaker 2: Post has changed. What it means to be a liberal
Speaker 2: ten years ago is not what it means today. Like things,
Speaker 2: but it seems like, you know, you to join an
Speaker 2: order like that or to be interested in it, you
Speaker 2: you have to be open minded. So maybe maybe it's
Speaker 2: like that open minded thing like they're you know, well
Speaker 2: I think you.
Speaker 1: Know what, you know what the bad thing is, Well,
Speaker 1: I won't see. It's just for me. And like again,
Speaker 1: like I'm not even trying to be harsh about it,
Speaker 1: but it's just like all right when you're in these things,
Speaker 1: and especially for me, if you kind of feel weird
Speaker 1: or like even that weird. But like I obviously didn't
Speaker 1: specifically fit in completely because I'm even just the way
Speaker 1: I looked people saw me in the streets, they would
Speaker 1: have no ideam into this shit. Really, everybody that you
Speaker 1: can't tell you know what I'm saying. So when I
Speaker 1: walk in I say it out so uh like I
Speaker 1: just always like so like either camaraderie. Once you like,
Speaker 1: all right, I take manrval, all of a sudden they
Speaker 1: start calling your brother or sibling or whatever, even though
Speaker 1: that's not supposed to be said unto a fucking first degree.
Speaker 1: So they already start saying things like that. So it
Speaker 1: gives you a sensible longing and it starts making you
Speaker 1: feel good, and then you are all right, these people
Speaker 1: are cool, that's not bad. And then things that you
Speaker 1: thought probably a year ago that's straight up mental illness,
Speaker 1: now maybe not be because ah, they're not too bad now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they're a horll of a person
Speaker 1: because they're mentally ill. No, but you start fucking changing
Speaker 1: things in your mind to justify the situation you're in,
Speaker 1: and before you know it, I'm not even thinking the
Speaker 1: same person I was a year Coming in makes me
Speaker 1: look that at times, they said, in order for me
Speaker 1: to even walk in this place and stomach it, sometimes
Speaker 1: I actually have to like really like kind of I
Speaker 1: don't shut shit off, you know, which I guess you
Speaker 1: know that's kind of a magician thing to do. Anyway,
Speaker 1: if you want to get what you want, You're gonna
Speaker 1: have to you know, I ask just to an extent
Speaker 1: and listen, you're gonna sell your ass. But you know,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to have a GPS, I guess,
Speaker 1: and you find a way to get to the destination
Speaker 1: that you want. So I guess if I wanted to
Speaker 1: keep learning and thought it was there, I had to
Speaker 1: deal with it. But it was just, you know, at
Speaker 1: times I was just like I normally, but not even
Speaker 1: fucking associated.
Speaker 2: Here's a rookie question.
Speaker 1: I'm not even trying to be mean. It's just like,
Speaker 1: all right, you're cool. It's just we don't need to
Speaker 1: hang out or like talk, and I don't have to
Speaker 1: act like I like you all the time. I get it,
Speaker 1: you know what I get it. It's like that you
Speaker 1: just start finding did you change a little bit?
Speaker 2: It's like that with that, you know, not to just
Speaker 2: keep going back to making the analogy of working a job.
Speaker 2: But you know, you take a job, you're around a
Speaker 2: bunch of people you would normally hang out with, and
Speaker 2: you start being cool with them.
Speaker 1: You know that happens. You know, it's a good way
Speaker 1: to even use that as an example podcasting. Depending on
Speaker 1: what group of circles. You start getting into wolves and
Speaker 1: you supposed to here to certain ideas and people. Sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I left the ot O and came of the podcasting.
Speaker 1: I was like, this ain't any different.
Speaker 2: For the fu Yeah, I know, man, I know, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna buy it my
Speaker 2: tongue for this.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you know, I'm just saying I think
Speaker 1: everybody does. Everybody who knows you know, it's a is
Speaker 1: it what it is?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So but I'm sorry, I gotta I gotta ask this
Speaker 2: and I know what it's like.
Speaker 1: Any question you want to ask? Man? Again, Like I said,
Speaker 1: any any answer, I'll answer as honestly as best as
Speaker 1: I can. There's no secrets for me.
Speaker 2: All right. What what's the first thing that they teach
Speaker 2: you when you get in there? Can you disclose that
Speaker 2: or well?
Speaker 1: I guess all right, I mean disclosing it. I guess
Speaker 1: like all right, Well, I mean they do. They don't
Speaker 1: really teach you. They suggest that you learn like the
Speaker 1: Pentagram ritual and the Hexagram ritual. Now I guess teaching you.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you would consider that stuff that
Speaker 1: they do with the initiations Okay, there's certain things that
Speaker 1: will teach you like a word, They will teach you
Speaker 1: a grip, and they will even teach you like a
Speaker 1: sign that you'll do and uh Minervel. The first one
Speaker 1: that they give you is on which it was kind
Speaker 1: of funny that it's the name of God, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I heard that in the Joining Maxwell fucking
Speaker 1: video twelve years ago. Thanks, Like that's what I was
Speaker 1: waiting for it, you know. And then uh, he's another
Speaker 1: name of God. Then then then they give you like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, how you do the handshake, You stick out
Speaker 1: of your thumb and somebody's supposed to come over and
Speaker 1: squeeze at twelve times. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: So they acknowledge God, not not in a Christian sense,
Speaker 2: but they acknowledge God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, oh yeah yeah, different words for it.
Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that. So now now I'm worrying. Okay,
Speaker 2: what is on is that? What?
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: Derivative of? What language? Is that?
Speaker 1: The truth? Off the hand? I couldn't tell you. I
Speaker 1: do know the I mean the first three initiations I
Speaker 1: remember correctly. They're all kind of taking place. Oh by Heliopolis, Monval,
Speaker 1: you're heading to Heliopolis, but like you're also getting picked
Speaker 1: up by like Sufi dudes, like you know, like sure,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, I don't know if it has
Speaker 1: anything to do.
Speaker 2: With sufi is Middle Eastern mysticism, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first three are pretty much dealing
Speaker 1: with that whole type of like scenario and situation and area. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what was weird because because because in the second
Speaker 1: degree they make you stand in the corner and hold
Speaker 1: a sword. But the sword ain't bent like a fucking
Speaker 1: one over there. It's a straight sword. So now that
Speaker 1: doesn't even match the area I mean, or even the
Speaker 1: fucking time. Maybe it's weird, right yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: bet you there's a reason for that though. There's probably
Speaker 1: a reason for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably a reason. Things change over time, who knows.
Speaker 2: But like the hexagram and the pentagram ritual are those
Speaker 2: are two different things?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, one's the pentagram. You're basically dealing with elemental
Speaker 1: energy so well that they are dealing with elemental energies
Speaker 1: here the hexagram rituals you were starting to like tap
Speaker 1: into planetary energies or you could start using that with
Speaker 1: like the Kabbala like ideas with the Kabbala because like
Speaker 1: you can even attribute planets to the Kabala and then
Speaker 1: you can start kind of like working with aspects of
Speaker 1: the Kabala in a sense.
Speaker 2: Okay, so and that.
Speaker 1: And that is not obviously with a hextagram. You know,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll be drawing a hextagram or different variations of
Speaker 1: a hexagram for that for that ritual. And it's just
Speaker 1: so it's a lot more. It's a lot more to it. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2: So that's interesting because we talked about this book a
Speaker 2: minud ago Erbtel Magic, and I picked up. One of
Speaker 2: the concepts I picked up on in that book is
Speaker 2: this idea of the elementals and then the planetary. And
Speaker 2: I think, if I'm remembering correctly, in that book, the
Speaker 2: planetary we're called Olympic spirits, and then the elementals were
Speaker 2: like the sylphs, nymphs, dryads.
Speaker 1: There's day you can, I think the cels. You're trying
Speaker 1: to attribute that with their Yeah, but uh yeah, the
Speaker 1: oh wow, that's another thing I totally forgot. Yes, Darbyitel
Speaker 1: has the Olympic spirits in there. There is a but.
Speaker 2: You guys weren't working with spirits. You're working with the concept.
Speaker 1: Right me, Well, with them in there, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think whenever I did. I guess the gnostic mess is
Speaker 1: kind of representative of somebody crossing the abyss on the
Speaker 1: Book of the day the Book of the Law was written,
Speaker 1: Fuckay ninth and tenth or somewhere around there and probably
Speaker 1: sucking that up. Uh oh, that's why that guy said
Speaker 1: four to eight has nothing to do with Alima. April eighth,
Speaker 1: that's the day of the Book of the Law. Fuck. Sorry,
Speaker 1: it's not a brain fark. So some guy said some
Speaker 1: shit to me and I didn't podcast past. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I had know. I had somebody on who's releasing a
Speaker 1: book and it's coming out on Foy eight, And I
Speaker 1: was like, I love that date, not even because I
Speaker 1: like forty eight for a different reason, totally forgetting. I
Speaker 1: think that's the first day of the written of the
Speaker 1: Book of the Law. And that's probably why he said
Speaker 1: there's no reason behind that day. I don't want Fellomites
Speaker 1: getting all excited for nothing. I didn't understand that connection,
Speaker 1: and now it just clicked in my head. Wow.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that the book had written on eighth, ninth
Speaker 1: and and those dates the lodge. You know, there's a lodge,
Speaker 1: there's oasis is in camps. I would assume as long
Speaker 1: as they have enough people there they the lodgers will
Speaker 1: in the oasiss. I'm sure for sure they will do
Speaker 1: rituals that day. Those will use uh hidiit nuts and
Speaker 1: horse in the in the in the rituals. But besides that,
Speaker 1: I to tell you the truth, uh, unless somebody wanted
Speaker 1: to do one and you have to get approval. A
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff actually was normally kind of like
Speaker 1: related to cabalistic stuff. One time when I was there
Speaker 1: and I didn't go to it, they actually did some
Speaker 1: sort of goetic thing. I can't remember. They might have
Speaker 1: been like I think it was a Samuel me. I
Speaker 1: can't remember. I suppose that they voked somebody something into
Speaker 1: a triangle. I didn't go for, say sam I own, yeah,
Speaker 1: like some goetic spirit though I can't remember. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I didn't go for that. But that was the
Speaker 1: one time that I was there for all that time,
Speaker 1: I saw that. But for the most part, like I
Speaker 1: would actually have to say, I don't remember, like there
Speaker 1: was a few rituals that were done, like outside of
Speaker 1: what they normally do, but it was nothing ever like specific,
Speaker 1: like one time, one time they did a ritual, like
Speaker 1: there was showing us how to make what you know,
Speaker 1: like when you make an envelope, so seals, how to
Speaker 1: make wax seals. Sure, you could use those in envelopes,
Speaker 1: so you can actually make sigils out of that. You
Speaker 1: can maybe design your own whatever and get put it
Speaker 1: into a print or whatever, you know, if you wanted
Speaker 1: to do that. And it was like one of our
Speaker 1: classes like that, and the girl who was teaching the
Speaker 1: class actually wanted to like turn it into a talisman.
Speaker 1: So she ended up doing like the the banishing ritual
Speaker 1: for the elementals to clear out where you are. Then
Speaker 1: she eventually went into the lesser banishing ritual the hexagram,
Speaker 1: you know, and that banishes everything. It's like starting over
Speaker 1: the c and slate. And then she invoked the sun
Speaker 1: and you know, that's kind of like rain over your
Speaker 1: own domain. It's you know, it's a good honestly, it's
Speaker 1: a good thing. It's kind of like you know, overall
Speaker 1: balanced good thing for you, you know, in a sense.
Speaker 1: So that's what she was putting into the talisman, you know, but.
Speaker 2: Like which she would probably wear that right.
Speaker 1: Or yeah. I think it was something I can't exactly No.
Speaker 1: I think it was more or less like something to
Speaker 1: or like use like on your you know, okay yeah,
Speaker 1: or or or to even just use it literally as
Speaker 1: a male stamp if you want.
Speaker 2: Okay, like to keep like to clear the energy of
Speaker 2: whatever you're sending. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, like she did one of those rituals
Speaker 1: okay out of it, and I thought that was rather interesting.
Speaker 2: So, okay, what the pentagram? Of course, most people, I
Speaker 2: think have a negative perspective of that because the way
Speaker 2: it's been portrayed in pop culture. You know, it usually
Speaker 2: shows up in true crime cases. You know, anytime you
Speaker 2: see a movie somebody's getting killed and they want to
Speaker 2: they want to like show you that there's an occult
Speaker 2: element to the murder, they'll throw the pentagram in. You know.
Speaker 2: That's I think that's what it kind of But what
Speaker 2: what did it represent for you guys?
Speaker 1: I just like the four elements in the spirit innocence
Speaker 1: uh Earth. It is also even used as a symbol
Speaker 1: for Earth the pentacle on your altar uh man.
Speaker 2: Me.
Speaker 1: I think itsult might even have to do with like
Speaker 1: light reflection, even like the symbol of lucifer is extremely
Speaker 1: close to how light reflects off you, like, extremely almost
Speaker 1: looks just like it. So you have to sell wondering
Speaker 1: about shit like that. I do think that's why I
Speaker 1: get into the eyes of the brain. Yeah, you know, Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean that depends. I mean that's that's no, that's
Speaker 1: pendagram into like other things like, Yeah, I can get see.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm learning a lot right now. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: I really am. And I think maybe we should probably
Speaker 2: tell people too that the oto. I'm going to take
Speaker 2: a stab at it, and you correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: That was Was it Theodore Roos and Crowley who created that?
Speaker 1: Theodore rous And I always forget the other guy's name,
Speaker 1: so sorry, I mean the guy's but uh, you know, no,
Speaker 1: well you know for him, you know, I always forget
Speaker 1: this other guy's name. But I'm sure he was just
Speaker 1: as important. He started doing with somebody else and uh, Crawley,
Speaker 1: I don't know what exactly. Neither he said something, I
Speaker 1: was writing something. He came across them that They're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy understands the secrets of our order.
Speaker 1: I supposedly they guy in touch with him. He was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I had no idea supposedly, but then they eventually met
Speaker 1: and they handed the order over to him, and he
Speaker 1: knocked out a bunch of the initiations and like kind
Speaker 1: of put the Book of the Law as a you know,
Speaker 1: the holy book and changed the order. It wasn't but
Speaker 1: they were originally like there were Masons who started an offshoot,
Speaker 1: but at the time when it wasn't ran by Crowley,
Speaker 1: it did have like if a Mason came into it,
Speaker 1: and it was at a certain degree, you didn't have
Speaker 1: to start at the bottom, so it was they could jump.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they get a little headstar. Now does it come
Speaker 2: out of Germany originally?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's interesting, you know because we were just talking
Speaker 2: about that all this stuff, just.
Speaker 1: That they're the headquarters is Swiss. We were talking about
Speaker 1: Switzerland before. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like weird weird ship is that even like this?
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of the Saint Gallam Mafia? No,
Speaker 1: sat well, Saint Gallam Mafia a while ago. They are
Speaker 1: even like somehow tied to like the they're over They
Speaker 1: started over in Switzerland and they were like somehow even
Speaker 1: tied to like the Oto like order over.
Speaker 2: Are they like a traditional mafia, like a crime family.
Speaker 1: Or well they're uh, you know, actually, I'll just explain
Speaker 1: it real quick. It was like a bunch of bishops
Speaker 1: basically like card that that if you look at where
Speaker 1: we show in the in the in the thing is
Speaker 1: that between like two dudes. They was basically freemasons that
Speaker 1: started because of their power, started putting people into position,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you realize, like between two
Speaker 1: bishop and cardinals, they made all these other ones bishop
Speaker 1: and cardinals that were all picking certain leftist ideology and
Speaker 1: trying to push it at the same time. Like it
Speaker 1: was like it was a choreographed effort to actually install
Speaker 1: a bunch of occultists to fuck up the Catholic Church. Wow.
Speaker 1: Pretty fucking interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they were trying to like go in there
Speaker 2: and like change the Catholic doctrine or something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were the ones who were pushing to get
Speaker 1: rid of the Latin Mass. They're the ones that are
Speaker 1: saying that, uh.
Speaker 2: Uh they want did they want a Gnostic Mass in
Speaker 2: place of that?
Speaker 1: They want to do the Latin But that was one
Speaker 1: of the connections that supposedly, uh, the OTO had used
Speaker 1: one of their churches to do domestic mass sometimes and
Speaker 1: that the church. Now this is now I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is true or not, because this is the
Speaker 1: whole thing. The Oto even has cakes of light, which
Speaker 1: is not the same thing as what they give you
Speaker 1: in church. But supposedly this church was even like giving
Speaker 1: them like the cakes of light to use. So now
Speaker 1: that I don't know if that's true, because that's not
Speaker 1: the same thing a Catholic church is gonna use. They're
Speaker 1: gonna have to make that themselves. And if they are,
Speaker 1: that to me is you've crossed the line and there's
Speaker 1: something fucking wrong there. If you're making cakes a light
Speaker 1: for the Oto, you know, something shady.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Well you know you're you're you're cooking menstrual blood into that.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Wow, yeah, there's there's there's a
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there's plenty of researchers out there
Speaker 2: who have done pretty good, diligent work, and what they've
Speaker 2: kind of proposed is that there is a little sect
Speaker 2: of a cultists in the Vatican. Oh yeah, maybe it's
Speaker 2: not a little set either, but there is at least sure.
Speaker 1: Again, like I was saying in seventeen hundreds. I mean
Speaker 1: they were basically a cultist and open about it. Not
Speaker 1: all of them were bad, but they were looking at
Speaker 1: Catholicism in completely occult way.
Speaker 2: Well, so what about this? Then? You know, you're when
Speaker 2: you join the OTO and you start doing these rituals
Speaker 2: like you're doing the hecks, you're doing the pentagram, and
Speaker 2: then you're, you know, going, are you are you suited up?
Speaker 2: Are you doing it in a Catholic kind of a way?
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you're at all? Right?
Speaker 1: At my house when I used to do this stuff,
Speaker 1: I remember even Max Well, my wife at the time,
Speaker 1: she had even said something about it looks like a
Speaker 1: Catholic church in here. Yeah, because the way I did it,
Speaker 1: I was very much like the stuff I used just
Speaker 1: looked like Catholic church. Like all right, I had the
Speaker 1: incense burner that I had. He was one of those said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had one of those ones that swing and I
Speaker 1: would chain. I even had the thing that you would use.
Speaker 1: Uh when they used to do the water. It was
Speaker 1: like a thing with a ball at the end that
Speaker 1: you dump it in the water, and it has like
Speaker 1: a big cotton bowl in there, and it kind of
Speaker 1: just like, you know, let's it come out at the end.
Speaker 1: I use that to cleanse my circle.
Speaker 2: Oh you used the Catholic thing for that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yo, no shit you not two blocks down away
Speaker 1: from me when I lived in Queens was this beautiful
Speaker 1: Catholic church and they had this big fucking like coffee
Speaker 1: earned thing in there that they used to fill up
Speaker 1: with holy water and then fill up these things as
Speaker 1: you're walking in so you can dip your fingers in
Speaker 1: and whatever. I would go in there with a bottle
Speaker 1: and just fucking I'd fill up a jug and bring
Speaker 1: it home. Wy would use the holy water. Yo. One time,
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize there with a fucking Salem, a
Speaker 1: Salem tea, a Salem hoodie with a pentagram on the back,
Speaker 1: filling up a fucking bottle of holy water in the church.
Speaker 1: Well that they'd be like, what the fuck is going
Speaker 1: on here?
Speaker 2: I just got this, Like, I just got this mental
Speaker 2: picture of you go and filling up your water bottle
Speaker 2: with holy water and going back and doing you're doing
Speaker 2: a ritual at home. That's great.
Speaker 1: So that's awesome, man, Like even the whole idea behind
Speaker 1: I mean, these magicians who make their own holy water
Speaker 1: because they do think like this something to that.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: Sure, and a lot of stuff with Catholicism that people
Speaker 1: would be surprised is like taken into consideration. With magicians.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: They believe Moses was a magician. A lot of if
Speaker 1: they're not ignorant and don't deny the Bible of having worth,
Speaker 1: a lot of those magicians will even say Jesus was
Speaker 1: against the magician. They all acknowledge them as being like,
Speaker 1: oh Jesus.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not Catholic, and i didn't grow up Catholic,
Speaker 2: but I've got a lot of family in Pittsburgh and
Speaker 2: they're in a very Catholic centric neighborhood out there, and
Speaker 2: like all three of my cousins when they got married,
Speaker 2: they had Catholic weddings. So I went to those. And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something right now, man, a Catholic wedding
Speaker 2: at least the ones I I went to was about
Speaker 2: ninety percent Catholic Church ten percent wedding. It was just
Speaker 2: like so when i started learning more about magic and
Speaker 2: the occult, and I'm reading about certain rituals and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, while I'm reading it, I'm thinking back to
Speaker 2: my time at these Catholic weddings, and I'm like that
Speaker 2: what I'm reading here sounds a lot like what I
Speaker 2: saw them doing in the Catholic Church, just in a
Speaker 2: different way, just like a remix.
Speaker 1: Oh. I well, I mean, I'll tell you right now.
Speaker 1: Even people that I knew now this is again. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it's siding of something I got into with
Speaker 1: the Goatia. People who I knew were fucked with that
Speaker 1: were actually very like deep into like Catholicism a cult,
Speaker 1: and like very much even like the regalia, very like
Speaker 1: the Catholic or look like it's it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: Oh and you know, we're talking about Hebrew too earlier,
Speaker 2: and like in the Old Testament when they're at their temple,
Speaker 2: when they set up the temple out in the desert
Speaker 2: or whatever, and uh there their priests are used in
Speaker 2: those swinging incense things all the way back in the
Speaker 2: Old Testament. So I'm wondering if like that came from
Speaker 2: a Hebrew tradition originally. I mean, who knows, But I.
Speaker 1: Do even find it interesting, Like I got riantee you,
Speaker 1: there's a reason why we even use those I guarantee you.
Speaker 1: It symbolizes something yeah, oh, do you think with these
Speaker 1: rituals and I'm gonna throw this out there with the
Speaker 1: at least with the I mean the pentagram retro on
Speaker 1: the hexagram ritchill kind of you're doing the same thing
Speaker 1: in a sense. But this is gonna sound weird. But
Speaker 1: just when it comes down to adapting shit to physiology,
Speaker 1: I actually think these rituals do show you the difference
Speaker 1: that goes on inside your eyeball when you have a
Speaker 1: magical experience. Because your eyebill, when it goes to open up,
Speaker 1: it pulls open at four corners. When it goes small,
Speaker 1: it actually spirals closed, screws closed, and you're going to
Speaker 1: the full corners whichever's there, and taking control of it
Speaker 1: and spiraling around in your black robe at the same time,
Speaker 1: very much like your pupils, screwing clothes and destroying the
Speaker 1: muscles that pulled it open.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen a unwound.
Speaker 1: Then you, I mean, what's going on? Yeah? Yeah, yeah?
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen an unwound or unraveled heart? Because
Speaker 2: a heart is a heart is folded. It's a fold.
Speaker 2: It looks like it looks like if you were to
Speaker 2: take a scarf or like okay, even better, like like
Speaker 2: a big long strip of flank steak that's real thin, okay,
Speaker 2: And if you wrap it up over a piece of
Speaker 2: bacon or something, you can pull it out. That's that's
Speaker 2: what a heart looks like. But when it's unraveled, bro,
Speaker 2: it's like, uh, it looks like a DNA strand.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, Okay.
Speaker 2: I got to check that out, and it looks like
Speaker 2: if I'll try to send a picture. I saw a
Speaker 2: picture of it. I'll try to send it to you
Speaker 2: after we're done. But like, it looks like some other
Speaker 2: symbol as well. So the heart is not this chunk
Speaker 2: of meat that we symbolize as you know, like a
Speaker 2: heart emoji or whatever. It's it's an it's a it
Speaker 2: looks like a piece of a spiral of steak or something.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, man, but I don't know. It reminded me
Speaker 2: so with the eye thing though. Back to that, so
Speaker 2: you're saying earlier the symbol for lucifer looks like the
Speaker 2: symbol of light hitting the eye, right.
Speaker 1: And the unit crystal exagram. I don't if you see it,
Speaker 1: that's very close to something, you know. That's what's that
Speaker 1: called against hexagram? Okay? Well, he ended up taking it over,
Speaker 1: but he didn't make it. He was a master of
Speaker 1: taking other people's ship.
Speaker 2: But it's got an eye in the center.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that I put it there. I had to
Speaker 1: put that in myself. But that's very close to how
Speaker 1: light reflects off your eye as well. Mm hmmm, well
Speaker 1: so you know it also changes depending on how dilated.
Speaker 2: It is to the next tent, you know, like fluctuates. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're onto something you're on. What is this houses fit
Speaker 2: into your do you want to do? Do you want
Speaker 2: to talk about this cross? I'm want to talk about
Speaker 2: this crossing the abyss because I'm still trying to figure
Speaker 2: out what it is. Maybe that's not going to happen today,
Speaker 2: but you.
Speaker 1: Know we can. Maybe we won't figure it out what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, but well, because it seems like maybe the
Speaker 2: eye and what's happening with the eye is maybe affecting
Speaker 2: affecting that somehow.
Speaker 1: Right. What I do think in the long run is
Speaker 1: like people, if anybody's ever been an emt or and paramedic,
Speaker 1: you'll know exactly what talking about. You know, people they
Speaker 1: say the light goes out your eyes when you die.
Speaker 1: I do think in his sense like you're actually writing
Speaker 1: that light out of your out of your body.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That.
Speaker 1: But uh, the one thing I do before I even
Speaker 1: get into this, one thing I do want to preface.
Speaker 1: When this happened, there was no drugs involved. I didn't
Speaker 1: start smoking weed again until like COVID got crazy because
Speaker 1: I was like, if I got to go out to
Speaker 1: public and deal with this man this, I gotta I
Speaker 1: gotta start smoking weed again. I can't deal with this.
Speaker 1: So I started like started kind of like picking up
Speaker 1: smoking weed again. But none of this had drugs involved.
Speaker 1: And believe it or not, the ones I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk about now where I do actually think it was
Speaker 1: a magical experience. I never even did a ritual. It
Speaker 1: was all done under meditation. So what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: that drugs and rituals, I do not think it necessary.
Speaker 1: It's not my experience. I just want to put that
Speaker 1: out there. And again, you know, it normally came from
Speaker 1: from meditating, uh, you know, just to get myself down,
Speaker 1: you know, just to it. Normally, when I would go
Speaker 1: to meditate, I would sit in a chair with a
Speaker 1: straight back, so my back is straight, and I'll put
Speaker 1: my hands on my lap straight on my legs. It's
Speaker 1: called the God pose. It's one of the poses that
Speaker 1: is suggested to do in the in the Oto, and
Speaker 1: I think in Libert there was a suggested breathing techniques
Speaker 1: and poses to do during meditation. Libra O would be
Speaker 1: one of their books that they do suggest that has
Speaker 1: the hexagram and Pentagram ritual in there. If anybody's you know,
Speaker 1: not pushing it, but you know, I'm just saying those
Speaker 1: are texts that they would suggest. So I was using
Speaker 1: the God form and I was, you know, I will
Speaker 1: normally sit there, I'll breathe, you know, in and out
Speaker 1: for a while and get myself you know, relaxed. Then
Speaker 1: I'll start to like kind of just like in visualize
Speaker 1: like kind of energy going through my body up and down.
Speaker 1: It's just like a thing that I've done since day
Speaker 1: one when I started getting into meditating, because it was
Speaker 1: just a suggested thing. It's like to try to visualize
Speaker 1: and feel like an energy flow up and down. I
Speaker 1: would do that, and then eventually I would start like chakras,
Speaker 1: and then eventually I would start like for me, just
Speaker 1: I know, if there's other people out there that do
Speaker 1: mess with chakras, they do say you can feel the fuckers,
Speaker 1: And I do believe that speels like spinning bowls or
Speaker 1: something of like window like little tornadoes. I sat like
Speaker 1: eventually like focusing on that and like practicing I think,
Speaker 1: like techniques and certain chakra books. You know, I got
Speaker 1: big into that for meditation. A lot of things I
Speaker 1: incorporated into meditation just to keep me meditating because it
Speaker 1: is hard for me, you know. Or Originally it's like
Speaker 1: who the fuck wants to sit there and try to
Speaker 1: think anohing for fifty minutes? It's fucking boring, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Who until I realized, like, and that's
Speaker 1: one thing I do want to mention too, that there
Speaker 1: would be times where I go to meditate on tarot cards.
Speaker 1: It's not so much shutting everything off. It's just maybe
Speaker 1: only have five voices or if you're really good, to
Speaker 1: focus on one idea like this tarot card and try
Speaker 1: to get you know, what might pop into my head
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about. You know what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 1: not shutting it all off, at least not from my experience,
Speaker 1: but it's fucking crazy. Uh So, like I would start
Speaker 1: like going into chakra work and then it just happened
Speaker 1: that at one point, I just started like I would
Speaker 1: focus on my pineo gland because I had noticed that
Speaker 1: sometimes like when I was in a deep meditation, if
Speaker 1: I was doing my shack is if I was the
Speaker 1: focus and like really pushing on my panial gland a lot,
Speaker 1: almost like visually, it would start getting darker. And I
Speaker 1: always started thinking, like this, something's weird with that, or
Speaker 1: is there like something that I'm doing, Like I don't
Speaker 1: know with my eyes or in my head that like
Speaker 1: when I'm pushing there, maybe it's not my panial something else,
Speaker 1: you know, what's making like that visual change within my eyes.
Speaker 1: My eyes are closed, you know, because it was like
Speaker 1: it was definitely a difference in blackness. And I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, we're going to play with this again. And
Speaker 1: I started like pushing on it hard and like I'm meditating,
Speaker 1: you know, I could have been meditating for like twenty
Speaker 1: thirty minutes at this point, already playing around with stuff.
Speaker 1: And again this has been years that I've just been
Speaker 1: doing this stuff. And I started pushing on it like
Speaker 1: really hard, and it got like really black to where
Speaker 1: like it's really weird, Like I'll take it this is
Speaker 1: where it really starts to begin. Now that like when
Speaker 1: the black starts to come in, it almost looks as
Speaker 1: if like let's say I was looking down at a
Speaker 1: black table and I went and like when like blue
Speaker 1: on it, and there was dust on the table, but
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice because it's so black. And when
Speaker 1: like it blows away, you're like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: really black, Like you know, it's even darker because there's
Speaker 1: like no tint to it. It's like so black, or
Speaker 1: like if like, uh, you're looking an asphalt and like
Speaker 1: oil started coming out of it, and that was even
Speaker 1: darker than the asphalt. I don't know, but like it
Speaker 1: looked like something spelling out almost like in my vision,
Speaker 1: like really fucking black, and it would have like these
Speaker 1: razor lines around it that almost looked like like fluorescent
Speaker 1: like rainbow kind of bright colors. And it just starts
Speaker 1: to like totally take up my vision and then eventually
Speaker 1: it's like really and then it'll almost starts to look
Speaker 1: like like a flag, like almost like water, you know.
Speaker 1: And this is something like I just want to say
Speaker 1: that I've even wondered about, like if you're if if
Speaker 1: light was to shine on like a black like a
Speaker 1: black floor. Could you make it look like a wave
Speaker 1: depending on how the light shining on it, even though
Speaker 1: it's not waving. So I'm even wondering if there was
Speaker 1: this light already, like something going on with the light
Speaker 1: and my perception even with that that's a little deep,
Speaker 1: but I have thought about that. But it does look
Speaker 1: like it almost starts to be like a wave and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, just like stop. It's like
Speaker 1: they'll start to see this little dark like you're not
Speaker 1: dark bright right as hell. Pin dot looks like a star,
Speaker 1: like all the way out in the distance, and it
Speaker 1: even almost looks like there's like I know, this going
Speaker 1: sound crazy, like black clouds around it, because like as
Speaker 1: like you see the white pin dot, there's almost like
Speaker 1: a glow coming from it, and you could see like
Speaker 1: these it almost looks like cloud puffs, but it's like
Speaker 1: drawn into the blackness, and it's like you see kind
Speaker 1: of like that line or that shape so hard to explain.
Speaker 1: It's almost like you do you ever remember a view
Speaker 1: Finders back in the day when we're kids and you
Speaker 1: play that, you push the thing on the side of
Speaker 1: it and it's almost like different layers of stuff to
Speaker 1: make it look three D and then yeah, darts to
Speaker 1: look very much like that, even with the like the
Speaker 1: layers of the clouds, and then like the star, and
Speaker 1: as crazy as it is, your eyes are closed and
Speaker 1: you could swear there's depth. It's it's fucking weird. You
Speaker 1: almost like can feel it. It's very weird, and it
Speaker 1: starts to get closer, and it will start like then
Speaker 1: it'll start seeing like almost black come out and start
Speaker 1: like kind of swirling in the middle and turn into
Speaker 1: like a black sphere, and then eventually it's like you
Speaker 1: see this big Basically what you're getting now is an eclipse.
Speaker 1: Went from a star to like it turns into an eclipse,
Speaker 1: and I think he's sitting there. And then like those
Speaker 1: lines I said before, those bright fluorescent lines, Oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This happens. First I see it and it
Speaker 1: stays there and I see like the eclipse. Now this
Speaker 1: whole time I'm pressing on my pineal glands still holding
Speaker 1: looks like explosions almost start going out like around around it,
Speaker 1: and again it's like it's like pops of color. And
Speaker 1: then if you remember, like what I was saying, that
Speaker 1: almost looks like drawings of clouds. That's there again. But
Speaker 1: because of the colors exploding and those outlines, it looks
Speaker 1: like an explosion to me, more flowers blooming, which is
Speaker 1: why all my logo logo.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yes, it looks like an eclipse with flowers.
Speaker 1: Flowers blooming around. Trying to visualize my vision. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to. So, uh, that starts to happen and it
Speaker 1: starts to look like roses blooming. Yeah, that will go
Speaker 1: away and out of like the four called the directions,
Speaker 1: those bright thin lines will start to spin almost like
Speaker 1: spiraling like a camera case or camera lens. You know
Speaker 1: how that just like your pupil basically how it's spirals.
Speaker 1: You will see that coming out like spiraling out of it.
Speaker 1: It was all these spirals coming out of the fucking eclipse.
Speaker 1: And like it almost even feels like it's like like
Speaker 1: like almost feeling like stuff within your body. Wow, we'll
Speaker 1: get into that when you really start to feel that
Speaker 1: start to change. Because there's a whole physical feeling that
Speaker 1: I have never ever ever felt unless I fuck with magic.
Speaker 1: I've never felt it again before or after, so it's
Speaker 1: very distinct to me. So yeah, so I see that
Speaker 1: and that starts spiraling out and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you start getting like these geometric like shapes. So
Speaker 1: you know we were saying it before, like geometry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like all these and it's like spiraling and like pasted
Speaker 1: you coming out of like the side of the eclipse.
Speaker 1: And then right around the time that starts to stop.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen like the logo
Speaker 1: I might use on my on my Twitter, on my
Speaker 1: YouTube where instead of clips and then the movie reels
Speaker 1: coming out of it, I had Maria from Symbolic Studies
Speaker 1: make that for me. Amazing piece of work he did.
Speaker 2: He did.
Speaker 1: It's another vision of mine. When that starts to happen.
Speaker 1: What will happen is that those those shapes will go away.
Speaker 1: And then for me, the easiest way I try to
Speaker 1: explain it, it looks a lot like if movie reels
Speaker 1: were running past you real slow, or if like you
Speaker 1: were standing in the middle of the and two cars
Speaker 1: are coming down going the same direction but really slow,
Speaker 1: and like you were a look you could see inside
Speaker 1: the car windows, and so you just start seeing and
Speaker 1: they look like they're like cellophane with a sepia look
Speaker 1: to them. It's like literally, like I've actually wondered. And
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say, oh I understand John Lennon,
Speaker 1: but him and even uh del Ray Lana del Rey,
Speaker 1: I've talked about cellophane skies wow, and he when I
Speaker 1: saw that, I was like after the fact, when I'm
Speaker 1: trying to remember, like yo, like thinking like even how
Speaker 1: weird that vision looked. I'm like, oh, that kind of
Speaker 1: looked like I was looking through like you I smoked cellophane,
Speaker 1: you know, like a sepia cellophane tinged, and I'm like
Speaker 1: that clicked in my head. I'm like, oh fuck, that
Speaker 1: guy said that in uh whatever, but uh, Cellfhane's skies.
Speaker 1: But I start seeing that coming down and again, like
Speaker 1: movie reels would be a good way, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: have like those things on the top that the movie
Speaker 1: reels actually sticking into those little holes. It's just these
Speaker 1: windows that start going really slow and coming down the side.
Speaker 1: Normally except the one time I normally like you see him,
Speaker 1: but like you kind of see there's something in there,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't. I was more still focused on the
Speaker 1: fucking eclipse, and it's just like, Okay, these windows are
Speaker 1: coming by around that time, I will start feeling like
Speaker 1: like a fluttering like in my body, and from like
Speaker 1: the I will start to feel like like at the
Speaker 1: bottom of my toes going like all the way up
Speaker 1: like it will almost start to feel like it's like
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy like disappear. Do you ever see Tron
Speaker 1: when they went into tront and it just starts like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, literally as if like from the bottom up
Speaker 1: was like like the wind just came by and I
Speaker 1: was sand and it was gone, and like by the
Speaker 1: time I get up to my knees, everything below that's gone,
Speaker 1: and it just like literally starts to feel like like
Speaker 1: I'm just disappearing, or maybe my nerves are the electricity
Speaker 1: running through my body isn't there anymore, so I'm not
Speaker 1: feeling it, which is what I think more of it.
Speaker 1: I think like you're actual, like you're starting to like
Speaker 1: go up into your spirit.
Speaker 2: It's like your spirit has not attached your legs anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't think you'll feel it. Yeah, yeah, so I
Speaker 1: do think so, which is probably why some people will
Speaker 1: still feel limbs when they're gone, because maybe the spirit
Speaker 1: in the sense is still coming out of there. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, but hear what you're saying. So eventually
Speaker 1: it will start to come up like into closer to
Speaker 1: my body, and everything below again is gone, and it
Speaker 1: starts to like build up into my head. And then
Speaker 1: at one point it's like all of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: feels like if you were like laying on the beach
Speaker 1: and I had like I was laying out there and
Speaker 1: the wave crashed and it was like running up the
Speaker 1: sand and the water like somehow the bottom of my
Speaker 1: souls will like hollow and the water could just run
Speaker 1: through my body like and go through my legs, and
Speaker 1: my whole body literally like felt like water. And then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it goes up in the top
Speaker 1: of my head and it was like, you know, it like
Speaker 1: comes I know, it sounds crazy right where they Amaica
Speaker 1: goes too. It feels like I'm blasting out the top
Speaker 1: of the back of my head and that's like all right,
Speaker 1: oh sorry, So those things start to go away, those
Speaker 1: those those windows, and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: just have the fucking eclipses just they're like just by itself.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the black sphere starts
Speaker 1: to rise up from the white one. It almost looks
Speaker 1: like Tolt's head dress where it looks like a crescent
Speaker 1: moon in the sun. But I see that when it separates. Actually,
Speaker 1: just to be honest, it looks a lot like that.
Speaker 1: And as soon as it separates now again, I'm pressing
Speaker 1: on my panelion, pushing on a real fucking hard this
Speaker 1: whole time. As soon as that separates, it literally feels
Speaker 1: like something snapped and something dam smacks me right back,
Speaker 1: like literally feels like some sort of polarity change, and
Speaker 1: me pushing meant me getting popped in the head now.
Speaker 1: And then that's when all of a sudden, everything feels
Speaker 1: like it starts coming out of my body and it's
Speaker 1: like literally like my head explodes, and it literally feels
Speaker 1: like that My body bursts into like a million butterflies.
Speaker 1: It's like like fluttering, just like going out, and it
Speaker 1: starts to feel like almost like two thousand and one
Speaker 1: where it starts to look like that weird like linear.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like you start getting pulled out, like
Speaker 1: all over the boys, you know, and you're getting stretched out,
Speaker 1: and you start like going like you start to literally
Speaker 1: almost start. It sounds crazy, and I hate to fucking
Speaker 1: ad minute, but this is why I do think NASA
Speaker 1: is literally just an occult fucking thing. A lot of
Speaker 1: the visions that you start to that I've had after
Speaker 1: this does look like you just be floating and fucking
Speaker 1: what you think of space, but you're a part of it.
Speaker 1: You're not in it. You're literally like a part of
Speaker 1: the fabric and just like fucking going along with it.
Speaker 1: And you get a lot of that I have like wow, man,
Speaker 1: But it like literally feels like you're contrected into like
Speaker 1: the fabric of whatever you're envisioning or whatever you're a
Speaker 1: part of. And when that happens, it's like, literally you
Speaker 1: feel like something melts off of you. There's not one
Speaker 1: thought of like hate, anger, fear that The only thing
Speaker 1: I can I can equivalate it to is if you
Speaker 1: were to take the idea of love, I mean, for real,
Speaker 1: for real, A million times stronger than the fucking best
Speaker 1: nut you've ever busted. And it's it's way stronger than
Speaker 1: any feeling you think you think is love. It is like,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the most intense feeling of ultimate love,
Speaker 1: and it's just like you're just there witnessing and being
Speaker 1: in existence and not questioning anything, and love and thinking
Speaker 1: a goddamn thing. You just feel it. And as soon
Speaker 1: as I start thinking about where the fuck I am
Speaker 1: or who the fuck am I, yeah it done.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, almost like.
Speaker 1: As I think your self, you're fucking man. That's wild
Speaker 1: because what I think at that point, however people want
Speaker 1: to take it. I do think you're connecting to the all,
Speaker 1: and once you start to think about yourself, you're no
Speaker 1: longer than that anymore. I was separate yourself from the
Speaker 1: source by even thinking of yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you it's almost like you've attached briefly attached
Speaker 2: yourself to the universe and and you're and that's the
Speaker 2: feeling of like it's almost like a drug, but it
Speaker 2: seems like it's like better, a better feeling than you
Speaker 2: would get from drugs, almost like it's more pure or
Speaker 2: wholesome or whatever. Clear people abuse it though, too sure.
Speaker 2: I could see that because it sounds like it feels great.
Speaker 1: I thought it was addictive, and I kind of stopped
Speaker 1: because like my last real experience was like before I
Speaker 1: put myself into the hospital, and I was like, ooh,
Speaker 1: I'm like I did it three times in a week.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 2: Is that when your eyes got all your.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well they had already started getting like that anyway.
Speaker 1: But that, like again, like the shit lasted like literally
Speaker 1: probably a month and a half to go back to normal. Okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like even when I when I left the hospital, I
Speaker 1: didn't see the eye doctor until two or three weeks later,
Speaker 1: and there was still a difference. It was originally full
Speaker 1: millimeters difference that at that point it was only two
Speaker 1: millimeters difference. But she even was like I could see
Speaker 1: the difference. It was crazy too, Swear to god, I
Speaker 1: even I said the lady because I was weirded out,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, yo, I was like, is
Speaker 1: there anyway you can actually like, for some reason, I
Speaker 1: had this idea there was something up with your eyes. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't know why. Like that was another thing I
Speaker 1: will even say every time I do this shit. This
Speaker 1: is gonna sound silly, some matrix shit, but it's not
Speaker 1: like really knowing kung fu. But when you open up
Speaker 1: your eyes, you're gonna know things you did, and unfortunately
Speaker 1: you made know things you didn't want to fucking know,
Speaker 1: which is another harsh reality you may have to deal with.
Speaker 1: If you fuck with this, you have to even think
Speaker 1: of if you have that whole experience and it's really you,
Speaker 1: how the fuck you even explain what you've believed your
Speaker 1: whole life if that you just had that experience. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: everything's been a fucking life. That's real.
Speaker 2: Like mushrooms. Like like when I took mushrooms when I
Speaker 2: was for the first time, I ever, when I was
Speaker 2: in my twenties early twenties, I took mushrooms for the
Speaker 2: first time, and I had a wild experience and at
Speaker 2: the end of it, not to e quite your experience
Speaker 2: to that, but like the feeling I got afterwards was
Speaker 2: like that. It was like I saw the world differently,
Speaker 2: Like like I had a more mature, sort of a
Speaker 2: more open mind to concepts. Somehow I had lost a
Speaker 2: lot of the dogma that I had picked up along
Speaker 2: the way in life. At that point, I'm not telling
Speaker 2: people to go take mushrooms. It's don't and don't don't
Speaker 2: because you're not going to have there's no guarantee that
Speaker 2: you're going to have. My experience happened to you. That
Speaker 2: drug does different things to different people, but it was
Speaker 2: a very powerful thing for me because when the when
Speaker 2: the mushrooms kicked in. I was sitting in my buddy's truck,
Speaker 2: and I was just we were waiting for him to kick in.
Speaker 2: And I and I, you know, I was sitting there
Speaker 2: and I could see myself in the rear view mirror
Speaker 2: the passenger side river. So I was just sitting there
Speaker 2: almost like waiting for these mushrooms kick in, sitting there
Speaker 2: just kind of staring at myself in the mirror for
Speaker 2: some reason. And all of a sudden, my face turned
Speaker 2: into twenty plus different people like and I said, oh,
Speaker 2: I sat back. I said, oh, and he goes they
Speaker 2: kicked in. I'm like yeah. Then I looked over because
Speaker 2: I had the window down. We were just parked in
Speaker 2: the field. I looked over at the tree line and
Speaker 2: I saw the green man that they talk about the
Speaker 2: like the Spirit of the West. Saw four three or
Speaker 2: four green men. The trees became three faces of lizards,
Speaker 2: and it looks just like the green Man from Appalachia.
Speaker 2: And then anyway, but okay, so so it was like
Speaker 2: a so I'd say, I like to say, like it
Speaker 2: was a very very uh uh engaging trip that I had.
Speaker 2: And when I came out of it, though I crashed,
Speaker 2: I had a paranoia at the very end of it,
Speaker 2: like it was a it was a wild trip, and
Speaker 2: when I came out of it, I had this feeling
Speaker 2: like I can't go back to who I was before.
Speaker 2: I'm still me, but it's me, it's a different me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't you want to look at the world
Speaker 1: the same anymore? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot why
Speaker 1: I was going somewhere with all that. I think. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think it was literally this What
Speaker 1: I was getting at is that you know, it will
Speaker 1: change you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and I was thinking too, like the sun the
Speaker 2: eclipse part of this for you. It kind of reminded
Speaker 2: me a little bit of like, uh, there's a scene
Speaker 2: in a sound Garden video where they show something that
Speaker 2: looks a lot like your logo actually black yeah, black
Speaker 2: hole Sun.
Speaker 1: You know what's crazy is that ship that they're showing
Speaker 1: on their faces is an actual brain issue that the
Speaker 1: small percentage of people have where everybody's face looks like that.
Speaker 1: Imagine it was morph yeah, imagine imagine you were somebody
Speaker 1: that had to deal with that like that people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: I forgot the dang, but there is actually an issue
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: My friend told me that if he looks at people
Speaker 2: for too long or you know, more than a couple
Speaker 2: of seconds there, they start turning into cartoon characters looking
Speaker 2: like that kind of stuff, like their their mouths get
Speaker 2: a little bigger and their eyes get bigger. He has
Speaker 2: whatever that is, it's gotta suck, man, it's gotta like
Speaker 2: black hole sun. Yeah, man, Like the sky in that
Speaker 2: video kind of reminded me of your story. And you
Speaker 2: know what's crazy is like the first line in that
Speaker 2: song I think is in my eyes He's like, in
Speaker 2: my eyes indisposed, he says, in my eyes, And he
Speaker 2: says indisposed, like indisposed, like like reticent or reluctant or
Speaker 2: something like. That is what he's trying to convey. I think.
Speaker 2: But that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I notice that, Yeah, because I have looked at the
Speaker 1: lyrics of the song after my experience, I realized that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like, I mean, I think that's one of
Speaker 2: those songs that he said Cornell, when he's still alive,
Speaker 2: he said, like everybody asked him what is this song about?
Speaker 2: You know, like everybody wanted to know what's this about?
Speaker 2: You know, is it about the eclipse or clips and
Speaker 2: all this stuff? But he was saying in an interview
Speaker 2: that that song was He said he was playing with
Speaker 2: words for words sake, almost like a form of divination,
Speaker 2: like he okay, So like like think about it like this,
Speaker 2: Like let's say you just you're walking around your house
Speaker 2: and you're trying to write a song, and in one
Speaker 2: room you have a TV on. Then the next room
Speaker 2: you have a magazine open on the bed, next room
Speaker 2: you have a TV on, another TV on, and then
Speaker 2: on the fourth room you have like a bookshelf and
Speaker 2: you're just walking around in the first room. Whatever they
Speaker 2: say on TV, you use the line from that second room.
Speaker 2: You just go and you flip through the magazine and
Speaker 2: whatever your eye catches, you use that as your second line.
Speaker 2: Back in the third room or go into the third room,
Speaker 2: whatever they happen to say on TV and that TV
Speaker 2: use that for your third line. And then when you
Speaker 2: get to your bookshelf in the fourth room, you just
Speaker 2: pull a book out, open it up, and whatever your
Speaker 2: catches your eye, that's your Now you've got a Now
Speaker 2: you've got a full verse of music. Right, And like
Speaker 2: this is that's what I think he was saying. Like
Speaker 2: I don't think he did Bowie used to.
Speaker 1: He admits that he would take and you know he
Speaker 1: was he would take old journal entries and cut up
Speaker 1: words and lines and stuff, and that.
Speaker 2: William miss Burrows what would do that because Burrows was
Speaker 2: doing that with his his like it was like a
Speaker 2: collage art or something that he was doing. But Burrows,
Speaker 2: like Bowie, it sounds like was using it for divination
Speaker 2: because what they were trying to do, they were trying
Speaker 2: to let a message come through. Like you're you're doing
Speaker 2: random chaotic stuff, but but a message, a message comes through.
Speaker 2: So if you write a song like that, the song
Speaker 2: rights itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I always thought about that with like Chris Now
Speaker 2: in Black Hole Sun, I'm like when he says he's
Speaker 2: playing words for words sake. You know, Rick Rubin had
Speaker 2: guys do that. Rick Rubin had a system of a
Speaker 2: down do that in one of their songs, It's one
Speaker 2: of their biggest songs. They were picking up they were
Speaker 2: taking books off the shelf and just opening them and
Speaker 2: whatever caught their eye. They were making that the lyric
Speaker 2: of the song. But when you listen to the song,
Speaker 2: it sounds like they're actually they had a topic that
Speaker 2: they wanted to write about, but the topic they had
Speaker 2: nothing to do with. The topic topic came to them anyways.
Speaker 2: Like going back to your Yeah, yeah, and I'm sorry
Speaker 2: man like your stories. But because in a weird way
Speaker 2: you're connecting. It's almost like you're you're connecting with something
Speaker 2: and it's off. It's out of your hands at that point.
Speaker 2: It's like that thing is coming to you and giving
Speaker 2: you the vision or whatever. Maybe I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: it's you're not like in charge. Seems like it seems
Speaker 2: like it's just happening. Yeah, or what do you think
Speaker 2: about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like again, like I said, if you think too much,
Speaker 1: it ends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true, though, I guess I'm not really in.
Speaker 2: Charge because yeah, because the minute you try to start
Speaker 2: controlling it or try like if you were, if you're
Speaker 2: in that moment and you're like, oh, I want to
Speaker 2: do this for five more minutes, I want to continue this,
Speaker 2: that would be like you stepping in and saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to kind of control this, and then that's
Speaker 2: when you lose the signal.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I do question too, though, Like the longer
Speaker 1: you you don't question anything, and your father you will
Speaker 1: actually go back as well.
Speaker 2: Well, and they say that about remote viewing too, because
Speaker 2: I mean, I went pretty deep into that man looking
Speaker 2: into it, and some of the remote viewers said, the
Speaker 2: more or you practice remote viewing, the less potent it
Speaker 2: your results become.
Speaker 1: So that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And that's what Josh Valet was saying too.
Speaker 2: Was like whenever he did his first remote viewing session
Speaker 2: and he found himself sitting on top of a mountain,
Speaker 2: they pulled him out of it. They pulled him out
Speaker 2: of the session, and he immediately wanted to do it again.
Speaker 2: He's like, I want to try another I want to
Speaker 2: try to do that. I want to do I want
Speaker 2: to remote view something else now. And they said no,
Speaker 2: like you're done for the day, You're done for a while,
Speaker 2: or like we want you to we want you to
Speaker 2: revel in this moment, in this feeling. We don't want
Speaker 2: you to keep doing it over and over again. It's
Speaker 2: almost like it loses its potency or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Would you say that you went into well, would you
Speaker 2: say so while you're telling me that story, I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about out that movie Gladiator, and like there's a scene,
Speaker 2: you know they've got that quote in that movie it's
Speaker 2: like what we do in life, echoes in eternity. And
Speaker 2: then there's they kept they keep showing this scene throughout
Speaker 2: that movie where he's going somewhere else. He's going into
Speaker 2: like almost like another neighboring dimension or something. It's like
Speaker 2: a dreamlike it's and it's almost like that Cepia. It's
Speaker 2: not a Sepia, but it's almost like it's a different
Speaker 2: coloration to everything. And he's like he's like walking through
Speaker 2: a wheat field, or he's on a beach and the
Speaker 2: sky looks different and he's in some dreamlike astral place
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Well, I will say like around the the eclipse, it
Speaker 1: is very much chrome, almost like black and white chromatic
Speaker 1: uh us the wrong word, but whatever, it's very much
Speaker 1: just like black and white, almost like old film. And
Speaker 1: then those those visions, those windows is what brings in
Speaker 1: like Sepio, it's almost like a brown Tinge saying. Because again,
Speaker 1: like you're getting this. You know, people will sometimes equivalent
Speaker 1: Saturn to like the black Hole song or the black
Speaker 1: Son and brown is a color kabbaalistically in the Harmericabala,
Speaker 1: which didn't make sense to me until I kind of
Speaker 1: you know, now, until that I do wonder if that
Speaker 1: somewhat is an image of Saturdn you know, an idea
Speaker 1: of Saturn is in there. That's maybe where the brown
Speaker 1: sepia look is coming from. That it you know, goes
Speaker 1: along with it. But I do get that the brown
Speaker 1: and then the sepia things.
Speaker 2: If you wanted to today after this podcast was opened,
Speaker 2: do you feel like you could go sit down, meditate
Speaker 2: and reconnect?
Speaker 1: Uh? Right right now? Maybe if I was lucky, I'd
Speaker 1: be totally honest with you, there might be something like
Speaker 1: right now honestly just because of like where my life is.
Speaker 1: Because as crazy as it sounds, me being so attached
Speaker 1: to even the work that I'm doing on podcasts, attachments
Speaker 1: to like reality. You know what I'm saying. I would
Speaker 1: have to probably like really like maybe spend like a
Speaker 1: few days or a week or so maybe to try
Speaker 1: to like you don't really be able to pull it off.
Speaker 1: But what I'm getting at is, I do think I
Speaker 1: kind if I wanted to. For sure, there's times there
Speaker 1: is times I've even said this and it's the weirdest shit.
Speaker 1: Around winter time for me, I could close my eyes
Speaker 1: laying on the couch for a second and I'll see
Speaker 1: that fucking show up before winter, around the winter's holstice.
Speaker 1: I am being totally honest with you. It is much
Speaker 1: easier to bless off. No idea. What I don't have
Speaker 1: has to do with the polarity again, because I do
Speaker 1: think there's something up with even switching polarity with yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually I think I think when a person creates
Speaker 1: a magical experience, and it sounds crazy, I think they
Speaker 1: they're their own black hole. Even think that's part of
Speaker 1: like what.
Speaker 2: You're seeing, like there's a universe within everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like that's when it's like it's eats
Speaker 1: itself out, you know how they say it explodes and
Speaker 1: then yeah, I think you just you know, you're experiencing
Speaker 1: one of those right now.
Speaker 2: What if this is what Aquino was doing? Where not
Speaker 2: to not to be like, I don't know, I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to joke about your experience, but I think.
Speaker 1: That he was.
Speaker 2: He was trying to It seems like he was trying
Speaker 2: to mess around with like an inner black sun or
Speaker 2: something like that. I could be off with that, but
Speaker 2: that's what seemed to be. That's what that that's what
Speaker 2: that symbol I think represents to some people.
Speaker 1: I've even said, like when the thing starts to originally
Speaker 1: start to spend, well for for a minute, it does
Speaker 1: look like it's just not as angular. It's more it
Speaker 1: starts to spend, it's not.
Speaker 2: Those are because those lines on the Black Sun, those
Speaker 2: are very rigid lines. They're they're spiraling, but they're rigid,
Speaker 2: so they look like the corners of a swastika. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But uh, man, I'd even wondered, I've wondered if like
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do with like you know, certain
Speaker 1: and things like that, if they're actually trying to like
Speaker 1: recreate like what a magical experience would be in one
Speaker 1: person but like multiplayer but like billions m.
Speaker 2: I've thought about that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2: They had one of the things that happened right after
Speaker 2: they turned on the particle Collider a couple of years back,
Speaker 2: was they had a huge speaking of spirals. They had
Speaker 2: a big spiral thing open up in the sky. People
Speaker 2: are taking pictures of it look like a like a
Speaker 2: vortex or something, just a just a spiral in the sky.
Speaker 2: And it even looked like a spiral like if you
Speaker 2: were to if you were to say, make me a
Speaker 2: spiral emoji, So just make a symbol that depicts a spiral. Right,
Speaker 2: There's something that looked just like that, like a stereotype
Speaker 2: typical spiral that showed up in the sky over there.
Speaker 2: There's pictures of it out. I'm trying to remember what
Speaker 2: they called it. But but anyway, that popped up in
Speaker 2: the sky, right if they've turned on cern one of
Speaker 2: those times. So it's like, what's it doing in that
Speaker 2: regard to to the to the atmosphere, or what's it
Speaker 2: doing to like the collective consciousness as well?
Speaker 1: You actually wonder two of people like have certain like
Speaker 1: I do wonder if UFO sightings, what people think might
Speaker 1: be UFO sightings, the side effects of magical experiences as well.
Speaker 2: I think our mind is just like the power that
Speaker 2: we have that we just don't know. It's just a
Speaker 2: lot of untapped power that we have, uh you know, I.
Speaker 1: Mean our bodies running electricity. I don't even think most
Speaker 1: people even realize that. Yeah, we get from the sun.
Speaker 1: That's another thing with even where I think occultism gets
Speaker 1: into this, it does get into like, you know, we
Speaker 1: receive life from the sun, which does all have like
Speaker 1: technically a code in there too to listen to what
Speaker 1: it's saying to say, and it goes into your eyeballs
Speaker 1: and eventually when it makes it to the back your
Speaker 1: optic nerve, which this is when I actually think they're
Speaker 1: showing you in minerval. I'm just gonna throw that out
Speaker 1: there for people listening. I was even standing next to
Speaker 1: a tent that they don't even acknowledge it the whole
Speaker 1: time you're in there. That looks like an optic nerve,
Speaker 1: and it's one of your twelve cranial nerves, which is
Speaker 1: I think why they pump your fucking thumb twelve times
Speaker 1: and they tell you the name is on. I think
Speaker 1: they're actually showing you the back part of your eye,
Speaker 1: your optic nerve, where it takes sunlight and transfers it
Speaker 1: into turns it into electricity, and that goes back into
Speaker 1: your brain and that powers your whole body.
Speaker 2: I can totally say that, man, something like that's happening
Speaker 2: when you ground, Like in the summertime, I'm blessed. I've
Speaker 2: got a backyard that's kind of private. So in the
Speaker 2: summertime I'll go out there in the backyard and like
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll sit out in the sun and just put
Speaker 2: my you know, barefoot in the in the grass. And
Speaker 2: the more sun I get, the more are charged up
Speaker 2: I am for the rest of the day like it's
Speaker 2: electric to something happening with electric electricity. From that, I'm
Speaker 2: gleaning it from the sun though for sure, like I'm
Speaker 2: buzzing on a higher vibration. Nick after I set out
Speaker 2: in the sun.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's great for you that you know, all right,
Speaker 1: this is another thing. And I didn't mention this, and
Speaker 1: I was gonna bring it up and forgot and then
Speaker 1: uh leab Aresh. That's a book by Croley. It's for
Speaker 1: the Resh, and that's like a prayer that you do
Speaker 1: four times a day and you face the sun. You're
Speaker 1: supposed to actually go outside and do like whatever thing
Speaker 1: it is and face the sun. I actually think if
Speaker 1: you were to stare at the sun at those different
Speaker 1: times of the day, you would actually prime your pineal
Speaker 1: gland to be like optimal. Even in one of Croley's rituals,
Speaker 1: he does when you do the isis at one point
Speaker 1: you're acting like your isis holding a baby and you
Speaker 1: will this is Croley's ritual is where you start doing
Speaker 1: specific like poses you'll grab your nipple. Believe it or that.
Speaker 1: When a woman has a child and that child goes
Speaker 1: to put its mouth on that nipple, that child will
Speaker 1: actually share a relationship with the mother's pineal gland. The
Speaker 1: pineal gland will tell her through the fucking milk. We'll
Speaker 1: start telling you when the seasons are, where it is
Speaker 1: in longitude and maltitude in this world? How are you
Speaker 1: gonna sleep? I do think that's crazy. Motherfucker's actually pointing
Speaker 1: at that. Shit. Wow, there's actually you know, but you
Speaker 1: this this stem cells. He's even being you know, you're
Speaker 1: transferred with the baby baby inside the body to like
Speaker 1: if you start looking at certain ship, you're like, this
Speaker 1: is so fucking a cult. If you're still looking at
Speaker 1: it all the ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But believe it or that.
Speaker 1: Because I was born first, my brother has my stem
Speaker 1: cells in his body because my mom had it with me,
Speaker 1: because I gave her some of mine, because it's a
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship. Don't die, bitch, because I want to live,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna fucking give her shit she needs. Why
Speaker 1: I'm taking from what the funk? I want to live
Speaker 1: in a side or crazy? Man, It's actually very like
Speaker 1: parasitic relationship.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean there's there's the occult scaffolding behind everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like there is a I do Yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you think it goes back to a lot of physiology
Speaker 1: and stuff especially you will feel like certain things inside
Speaker 1: your eyeballs start to reflect into your brain and down
Speaker 1: into the uh, the rest of your body, even parts
Speaker 1: of your brain. You'll see almost the exact same thing
Speaker 1: flipped upside down, like for the Filippian tubes. It's like
Speaker 1: has above so below. What the fuck it's like flipped
Speaker 1: You know, it's fucking weird, and you start to almost
Speaker 1: see like a cult symbols, especially if you're sat looking
Speaker 1: at the brain, certain parts of the brain, you start
Speaker 1: seeing things. Hr Geiger, who did uh the the stuff
Speaker 1: for aliens. He was into thala mixed stuff and he
Speaker 1: was very big into the eyes and the brain. And
Speaker 1: you know some of his alien things is supposedly based
Speaker 1: off of parts of your brain. That's why there's different
Speaker 1: stages because there's different parts of the brain. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, with with Geiger, do you do you think that
Speaker 2: he was meditating and maybe coming seeing some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think he was a real deal. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think definitely magical experiences. I think he understood there was
Speaker 1: like a change going on. I mean, if you, if
Speaker 1: you really think about it, your brain in your eyes,
Speaker 1: what determines your whole reality in the sense anyway, if
Speaker 1: you're in occultist year, eventually I would hope you study studying.
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, yeah, naturally that's the natural there's a
Speaker 2: natural connection there.
Speaker 1: And really, I mean physiology probably don't even realize that
Speaker 1: your eyes are just an extension of your brain. It's
Speaker 1: all connected.
Speaker 2: I had a guy on recently. He told me to
Speaker 2: check out this guy named Joe Roup. So I went
Speaker 2: and listened to him.
Speaker 1: On a podcast.
Speaker 2: You have heard that name, Yeah, he's It was really interesting.
Speaker 2: The show that I listened to, he was talking about
Speaker 2: how he he meditates and he goes places like he's uh,
Speaker 2: I think he called it the astro realm. But he
Speaker 2: seems like he's able to do it on a daily basis,
Speaker 2: Like he'll he'll meditate, Oh, he got to a practice
Speaker 2: of doing it, and uh, he calls where he goes
Speaker 2: is the astro realm. But he's having these almost sometimes
Speaker 2: he'll have these out of body experiences where he'll he'll
Speaker 2: he'll like be up above his house and he'll see
Speaker 2: himself meditating and he'll see like his kid in the
Speaker 2: other room playing with the toy and stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: or he'll see, you know, the kid doing something, and
Speaker 2: when he comes out of out of his meditation, he'll
Speaker 2: go in and look in the other room and the
Speaker 2: kid will be doing you know what he saw the
Speaker 2: kid doing above the house where he was out of
Speaker 2: his body kind of stuff. Yeah, he's he's So that's
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I wondering how that. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: People get surgeries and they see themselves worked on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's even another thing. You think what anesthesi is
Speaker 1: doing to you. They kind of like putting you halfway
Speaker 1: out there and halfway here.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Just where the fuck are you going it? You ain't
Speaker 1: feeling nothing like that? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: People have that those near death experiences. I think we
Speaker 2: talked about this early on in the show today, Like
Speaker 2: the near death experience. A lot of times those people
Speaker 2: are they they see them so they're looking down at
Speaker 2: themselves on the table or in the back of an
Speaker 2: ambulance or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. When the guy was on the side of
Speaker 1: the road. I think like whatever car accident or something,
Speaker 1: it's like seeing his body the like it was like
Speaker 1: looking down and seeing the whole scene.
Speaker 2: And I've heard stories from guys who who saw combat
Speaker 2: action and they when they were in like a high
Speaker 2: stress scenario. Some of those guys talked about having an
Speaker 2: outer body experience in combat.
Speaker 1: I think my opinion, and I think this is why
Speaker 1: they understand like parts of MK ultra, I think they
Speaker 1: understand this just my opinion. I think if you put
Speaker 1: enough stress on the body, the soul will try to
Speaker 1: just escape anyway. Anything. It will say fuck you, I'm
Speaker 1: out and checking out. This is too much. I ain't
Speaker 1: down for this. Yeah, you understand that. That's how they
Speaker 1: sulf fracturing your mind. And that's where they do like
Speaker 1: sick ship to people because it's just putting them to
Speaker 1: the brink of separating themselves to not experience the situation anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like some Sydney Gottlieb stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I mean. There's even some people that
Speaker 1: uh the D I D people that have looked at it.
Speaker 1: I think we even covered a long time of like
Speaker 1: originally in the cult rejects. Sometimes you'll even see in
Speaker 1: their art they're always depicting like a shadow version of themselves.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, is that like your your soul
Speaker 1: separating as you're getting traumatized.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the mk ulture rabbit holes, it goes deep, man,
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right. It seems like people in the
Speaker 2: government have figured out how to manipulate this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so, I do too.
Speaker 2: I do too, man, I mean I had Ryder Leon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, man, He's like, yeah, shout out to Rider.
Speaker 2: Good podcast to his podcast is awesome. But no, he was.
Speaker 2: You know, I was talking to him because I watched
Speaker 2: the video he did, or the the documentary he did
Speaker 2: recently with Jay Wiener, the Clockwork Shining documentary, and they
Speaker 2: show a scene in there where Britney Spears is in
Speaker 2: an interview with Diane Sawyer maybe one of these you know,
Speaker 2: big time, big name reporters, and she says something to
Speaker 2: Britney Spears and it's a it's obviously it's a trigger word.
Speaker 2: And as soon as she says the word, Britney's everything changes.
Speaker 2: She she steps into another personality. It's so clear, and
Speaker 2: it's like a childlike personality that she steps into and
Speaker 2: it's very weird because it's like, how did Diane sawyer
Speaker 2: Because the word she used was not a word you
Speaker 2: would just normally throw in a conversation, right she she said,
Speaker 2: it's all almost like she said the word on purpose
Speaker 2: to get Brittany to to to turn into somebody else.
Speaker 2: It's so creepy. But it's like, first of all, it's
Speaker 2: like how does she who clued her in to that?
Speaker 1: It's like.
Speaker 2: To who, Like how did she find out the operating
Speaker 2: word to use on Britney Spears? And why is Britney
Speaker 2: Spears being mind controlled in the first place? Fractured, I
Speaker 2: think we're going to just you know, I think that
Speaker 2: we're going to just continue to figure out stuff. When
Speaker 2: it comes to MK ultrue, I think it's like way
Speaker 2: more widespread than than we we realize because they've had.
Speaker 1: Really some affluent family that's into this ship and you
Speaker 1: want to push it onto your kids and make them experience, Yeah,
Speaker 1: people doing it, And.
Speaker 2: Man, I mean, how how how deep is it with
Speaker 2: the music industry, and.
Speaker 1: Like, I just you not even having a chance or
Speaker 1: a choice. I mean, I know, man, it's like.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. But I mean, I mean, like we can
Speaker 2: we can start to wrap it up with this, but
Speaker 2: like the occult, since you're since you were in officially
Speaker 2: in the OTO for six years, and like you're well
Speaker 2: studied on this stuff and you're well versed, and I
Speaker 2: appreciate you coming on and telling me this stuff. Man,
Speaker 2: I really do when when you and I know, I
Speaker 2: think I've heard you tell me you play guitar. I
Speaker 2: think we talked about that. When you look at like
Speaker 2: certain musicians, certain big bands, do you who do you
Speaker 2: think really was into this stuff? Who do you think
Speaker 2: really practice magic? Like Beatles, Zeppelin? Who really don't?
Speaker 1: Oh, I do? I definitely think. Uh, I think at
Speaker 1: least John Lennon the Beatles, I think Zeppelin. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be totally honest with you, believe it or not. I
Speaker 1: think when it comes to like those seventies bands or
Speaker 1: those rock bands, I think for the most part, a
Speaker 1: lot of them actually understood because you'll start seeing like
Speaker 1: even but it this way, you saw, like actually paying
Speaker 1: attention to eclip symbolism. You start seeing that shit over
Speaker 1: a lot of rock and heavy metal bands. But I
Speaker 1: do actually believe a lot of them, A lot of
Speaker 1: them do. But I, in my opinion, I think the
Speaker 1: magical experiences is what helps make the artists who they are.
Speaker 1: Because again, now I'm saying that it's neo, but I
Speaker 1: think you will be able to learn better and become
Speaker 1: better at what you do if you're fuck with magic.
Speaker 1: But no, no, uh, I'm not trying to think of
Speaker 1: like maybe specifics. I do think Ozzie actually definitely knows,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like people like him. I
Speaker 1: think Metallica, believe it or not, Mega Death for sure,
Speaker 1: Slayer for sure, Slayer, fuck you for sure. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of them, the metal bands from back in
Speaker 1: the day, back then, I think they were definitely if
Speaker 1: you were to go listen to a lot of this
Speaker 1: shit then now they're not saying much. And then a
Speaker 1: lot of conspiracy dudes we're telling us too. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: fucking vaccinations are gonna fuck humanity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've always been I've always heard too
Speaker 2: that Slayer was I've heard from Slayer fans that there's
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's something. I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: something they talked about in their lyrics or whatnot, but
Speaker 2: I've always heard.
Speaker 1: They say I definitely think they've experienced what I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, man. And you know, I saw an
Speaker 2: article the other day about for Shani from the Chili Peppers.
Speaker 2: That guitarist he said he got deep into the occult
Speaker 2: for a little bit. He said he quit the band
Speaker 2: over it.
Speaker 1: Who are you saying that again? Which one again?
Speaker 2: Uh? The guitar player for the Red Hot Chili Peppers
Speaker 2: John for Shanti.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they are. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people listen. I will give Crowley credit. Like, I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there Arthelomites are into his
Speaker 1: idea of magic that are in like music and movies.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's everybody, but like I have people,
Speaker 1: I have heard people somewhat suggest that their album Blood Sugar,
Speaker 1: Sex Magic was you know very much. Yeah there all right.
Speaker 1: Another thing with the Beatles. Now again this isn't a
Speaker 1: ritual that Crowley wrote, but the Beatles' Help album, all
Speaker 1: those symbols that they're doing is actually stuff that you'll
Speaker 1: use in rituals. This is the sign of Osyrius slain.
Speaker 1: At one point, you will make the sign of a
Speaker 1: swastika for the sign of the morning of isis. If
Speaker 1: you don't want to make the swastika, you go like this,
Speaker 1: you make an L shape, somebody's doing that. The Sign
Speaker 1: of Earth is almost basically doing the hitless sign, fucking
Speaker 1: Ringos doing that. And who else did I leave out?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: All of those are actual either part of the LVX
Speaker 1: formula or the elemental sign of Earth. It's like, look
Speaker 1: when I saw that ship after I saw the practice,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's the fucking I do
Speaker 1: that the fuck right there. On the Beatles Help album, well.
Speaker 2: They seem like they were they were studying. It seems
Speaker 2: like there was almost like a a a little I
Speaker 2: don't know if I should call it a movement or
Speaker 2: like it seemed like a lot of people from the
Speaker 2: seventies and maybe even the sixties there was like an
Speaker 2: inclination for some of them to get into the occult.
Speaker 1: Like Bowie right, oh yeah, Bowie was big. He was big,
Speaker 1: kind of open with being into the Golden Down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then like the Golden I think so, and then again
Speaker 1: like see again, like there's rituals that I'm explaining. The
Speaker 1: Golden Dorn were kind of they say they originated with them.
Speaker 1: I don't think maybe, but those are Golden Doorn rituals
Speaker 1: that Crowley eventually incorporated into the Limix stuff. Star Ruby
Speaker 1: is his, but like the pentagram of the Hexagram rituals
Speaker 1: not his. They came from the Golden dooring technically, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I would think, and I do think was Bowie was
Speaker 1: into that ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think too. Like I've heard Danny Carey,
Speaker 2: drummer for tool is A is in the Lima.
Speaker 1: He has uh. He will have magical sweats on his uh,
Speaker 1: on his drums and he'll I don't know if he's
Speaker 1: specifically trying to hit certain areas on the magical squazes.
Speaker 1: It's not something out, but he does put squaze on
Speaker 1: his fucking uh. He does put a cult symbols on
Speaker 1: his fucking drums.
Speaker 2: Well, his drums sound. Some of his drum parts sounds
Speaker 2: completely otherworldly, especially on that last album they put out,
Speaker 2: Uh Fear and Oculum. Oh yeah, some of the drum
Speaker 2: parts on air Man, it doesn't even sound like it's
Speaker 2: a drum, like he's doing crazy stuff. It sounds like
Speaker 2: some new instrument, some like something he invented.
Speaker 1: Let go check that album out again today.
Speaker 2: Oh it's good.
Speaker 1: So I have only listened to like a few parts
Speaker 1: of a few songs and that was it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, listen to hisloaded with the Cult stuff. Oh
Speaker 2: probably I should look at it again for that reason too.
Speaker 2: But I mean, like, listen to his drum parts. Man,
Speaker 2: they are wild. Like it's not it's he's doing something
Speaker 2: new and something primitive at the same time. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's like tribal, almost shamanic. Oh yeah, okay, yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: but listen, man, this has been great. I appreciate you
Speaker 2: coming on. Man, it's been a really good conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Actually great questions to I appreciate
Speaker 1: it thinking, okay, yeah, cool.
Speaker 2: Well it's great information, man. It helps like when the
Speaker 2: when the information coming from from the guests corner is good,
Speaker 2: the questions are good, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: I'm feeding off of I'm feeding off of that. But anyway,
Speaker 2: uh yeah, thanks for coming on. Tell everybody where they
Speaker 2: could find you.
Speaker 1: Yes, The Occult Rejects that is on Bitch, Shoot, Rumble
Speaker 1: and YouTube and all major podcasts. If you haven't heard
Speaker 1: the show, it is, you know, basically focuses on the occult.
Speaker 1: We will touch on true crime sometimes if it includes
Speaker 1: the occult, sometimes paranormal, but we do try to kind
Speaker 1: of like focus more on occult ideas and topics. And
Speaker 1: there's probably about a total of twelve of us. We
Speaker 1: don't all show up on the show at the same time.
Speaker 1: We normally revolve around like anywhere from three to five
Speaker 1: or six people at a time, so you know, we
Speaker 1: have different people on for different topics. It's a pretty
Speaker 1: interesting type of podcast, so check it out. Stefan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I've heard some of the rejects,
Speaker 2: if not all of them. There's it's a group of
Speaker 2: people who have a lot of knowledge, a lot of insight,
Speaker 2: and it's always you know, if you want to really
Speaker 2: get in deep to into whatever topic it might be,
Speaker 2: you know your group of rejects, man that you've compiled
Speaker 2: a nice community of people who have like great insights.
Speaker 2: So and I'll leave it at that as always break
Speaker 2: the mold, conquer the realm, and thanks for listening.