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Speaker 1: What's up everybody? Welcome back to the show. My name

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is Adam, I'm your host. This is The Hobby Hotline,

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Episode three seventeen. I am the host today here with

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Uncle Rich Klein and doctor James Beckett. Hope everybody out

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there in the chat is having a great week. I

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hope you are liking and subscribing on the video here

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on Bench Clear Media. Shout out to them for hosting

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the show every Saturday. I'll go around the horn here. So, Rich,

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how are you doing this week?

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's a great day to be here. I appreciate that.

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And three episode three seventeen. If this was a batting

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average in the National League, you would be leading the

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league in batting right now.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Uh uh. Doctor Beckett, how about you?

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Speaker 3: How are you? How's your how's your week?

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Speaker 4: Bend?

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Speaker 5: Dude?

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Speaker 4: Great? Great? I agree with Rich.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome.

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Speaker 4: I want to give it.

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Speaker 6: I agree with you.

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Speaker 4: Jim.

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Speaker 2: You know I always use the Mickey Mantle line and

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the Estays cuff for anti trusting in baseball. Casey Stengo

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went on a five minute rant. Just did it like

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a five minute tour, and at the end of it,

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they asked Mickey Mantlefee had any question and he just said,

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my views are about the same as cases. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to give a quick shout out to

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everybody leaving some comments in the chat here. We got

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somebody watching and why. We got Mad City Brew in Wisconsin. Uh,

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we got Collector Dream, We got the Mangotti collection.

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Speaker 3: I think is how that's pronounced? G Man Genie oh Man.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I'm more of a speaker rather than a

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pronunciator of words that I can't re unfortunately. Uh, we

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got the professor run yep, that's correct. We got a

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doctor James Beckett. Hello, everybody, all these hellos. Shout out

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to everybody in the chat. Like I said, Uh, you know,

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one of my favorite things to do here on the

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show is to get everybody's location. Well, not not to

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be federal or seem like I'm trying to investigate anybody,

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but I'd like to see where everybody's watching from. So like,

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if you let us know where you're you know where

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you're watching from. Uh, we'd gradually appreciate that. Always love

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getting some feedback in the chat there. Shout out to

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Rex of of course on the big screens at the shop.

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Shout out to Rex there down in New Buffalo.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so for the first topic today, we've got I

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mean pretty much the news that like, for the most part,

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that everybody has been seeing over the I mean you really,

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I don't know, I don't know how you wouldn't have

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seen this news. But we've got the first player show

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Heo Tani, which I mean, if you're a hobby person,

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this is this is nothing new. We've seen o show

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Heyo Tani be the best player in the MLB for

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quite some time now.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 1: From a sports card perspective, I'm sure everybody has been

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fun following this, and now we have another one of

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the I don't know, I don't really want to call

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it tops lottery tickets, but that's kind of what they've

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been doing. And they've kind of been doing this already,

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so I don't know, it is interesting. They also did

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a curry and messy card this past week as well,

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So you know, Rich, I'll start with you, what are

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your kind of thoughts on what they've been doing here

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with these cards and or maybe just even Shoho Tani

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in general as well.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hey, the bounty, where is it already? I mean

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I thought the bounty would have ready to be out there.

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I haven't seen any news on the bounty yet. But

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what's interesting is apparently there was a scrum for one

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of the home run balls who did probably both of them.

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And here's the thing, and I used to talk about

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this back in the day when I worked at Beckett.

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I did a ton of interviews in ninety eight with

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all sorts of media during the McGuire Sosa home run chase.

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Those home run balls are also lottery tickets. Whoever left

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with it, just like the gentlemen who got the Aaron

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Judge sixty second homer ball last year, that's a ticket.

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Speaker 6: That's a lottery ticket.

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Speaker 2: You buy a seat, You buy your seat, and you

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hope that you're in a position to catch the baseball

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and then cash it in. So this is actually a

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double lottery ticket, the lottery ticket for the home run

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bow and the lottery ticket for this card.

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Speaker 6: And it's too.

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Speaker 2: Early, you know, to know, because they've obviously probably not

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shipped them out yet. I think there's a week usually

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or a day, it depends when, so they're probably not

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shipped out yet. So I'm just curious when the bounties begin.

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And I'm also curious because the gentleman walked out with

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the baseball from the Dodgers game when the bounty begins

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on that as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and oh Tani, it's like how many more record? Like,

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you know, I don't know, there's like that Kobe commercial

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where somebody just like how much more are we going

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to do? It's like, how many more records is Otani

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gonna break? And it's just every every season it seems

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like Otani is breaking some sort of new record that

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you know, like he had I think it was either

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last season or the season before he broke a record

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that was held by Babe Ruth in like the twenties

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of being like the only player to hit us certain

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amount of home runs and getting a certain amount of

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strikeouts within the season. So Otani is just such a if.

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He's such a phenomenon right now. And you know, doctor

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Beckett'll ask you a question here, do you think that

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this card, for example, is gonna be an iconic card

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within the sports card industry? I mean, it is a

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top now, and we can kind of go through some

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of the other iconic cards, but do you see this

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one really you know, being in that upper echelon of

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like iconic cards maybe the one of one autograph.

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Speaker 5: Potentially it's gonna be both in the upper echelon and

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the lower eschelon. The base card is going to be

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the one of the most common cards we've ever seen,

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and the serial numbered and you know, the one of

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one obviously is gonna be huge, but most of the

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people are gonna get the base card and they're gonna

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be again, one of the most plentiful cards you're ever

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gonna see.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, And so do you think that this card is

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actually going to out perform that, like other the triple

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Lebron Steph Curry card, like in terms of how many

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are printed potentially, or like, do you see this as

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kind of diminishing returns almost for tops where it's like,

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you know, sure they're they're making a couple million dollars potentially,

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but it's like the more they keep doing this, the

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more the gimmicks or of is gonna wear off.

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Speaker 6: Really unique, I'm sorry, Jim go Ahead.

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Speaker 5: Rich has a philosophy that when he goes to a

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dollar box, he's prepared to pay a dollar, he'd happy

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happy to get less.

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Speaker 4: This is the flip side of this.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you were buying into this Tops now

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and you paid your eleven bucks or ten bucks, whatever

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it is, you ought to be thinking, I'm happy if

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I just get the base card, and if I get better,

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that's okay.

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Speaker 4: But that's not what people are thinking.

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Speaker 5: This The ten or eleven dollars investment whatever, depending on

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your quantity, is going to be in the dollar box,

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maybe maybe even worse. And so that makes it more

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of a lottery. And that's the thing that ought to

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be disturbing for for Tops, for fanatics is that they've

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created this monster car, but they've made all the base

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cards be really bad, and so they've got to be careful.

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We're creating collectibles, and just like when somebody buys a

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pack of cards and they take the best card and

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leave the others on the counter, that's not healthy for

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the long term health of the hobby. So I'm concerned

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about not that it's a cash grab, it's a business proposition,

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but if they keep going to the well on this,

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it's there there are so many more people that'll be

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disappointed than people that are going to be pleased.

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Speaker 3: I won't Also, I want to highlight or one secarage.

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Speaker 1: I just want to highlight this comment that said the

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forty forty card did one hundred and fifty K print run,

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so which I mean, I would think, I'm thinking we're

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probably going to rival that like five hundred and eighty K,

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like maybe, I don't know, rich do you think it's

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going to get high? I mean, I guess kind the

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same question that you can get into what you were

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about to say, like do you think that this is

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going to get up to that five hundred and eighty

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eight K range that the Eletripole card did or like no.

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Speaker 2: And if it does, it's it becomes a pretty I'm

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in card when you show up, and I'll be happy

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to buy it. If it shows up at a reduced price,

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that's fine by me. Also, Jim talks about leaving cards

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on the counter. I am so old that I remember

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in nineteen eighty five, at what was then my local

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card store, people left the eighty five tops Mark McGuire

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Olympic card on the counter because they were only chasing

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good in or maddingly in New Jersey. A couple years later,

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that store was getting fifteen dollars each on all those

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McGuire cards that they had just sacked. A way, So

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in a way, if you have patience and people just

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leave your cards on the counter at a store. You

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can do pretty well with justin Freebie's. It is a

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little harder nowadays because the packs cost so much money,

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but fifty to fifty is a unique situation.

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Speaker 6: Nobody's ever done it before. We all want it. That

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is such a cool card.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I had bought that and I got

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that out of the pack, I think my first call

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would be to somebody like Kenny Golden High. How quickly

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can you be on a plane to get down here

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and add it to him and say you deal with it.

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I don't want to have this. I do not want

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to be holding this any longer than I have.

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Speaker 6: To be holding this.

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Speaker 2: You know, whether it's whether Chef Wilson, whether it's you know,

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whoever is a legitimate player. Hey, you just get down here,

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I'll have the card for you. I'll sign your contract,

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I'll turn it over, say good night, Gracie.

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Speaker 1: Right right right, yeah, yeah, And then this card, you know,

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Otani even you know, even the I think that this

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card probably gets over that five eighty eight k five

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hundred and eighty eight thousand, just based on the fact that,

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like somebody in the chat said the forty forty card

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got one hundred and fifty and from what I remember,

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the Otani, the first Dodgers Otani tops Now I believe

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was over one hundred k.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think that there is a which which also like

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a show Hiptana. He's the biggest name in sports cards

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right now, so it shouldn't be super surprising that his cards,

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out of any of them, are doing like those types

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of numbers. But overall, I just think it's a card

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that you know, it may end up in those like

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fifty cent quarterboxes eventually one day. But I do think

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it's also a moment in time that people are gonna

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reminisce over within sports cards because it's I think it's

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a moment that has changed kind of the landscape of

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the tops now concept, Like they have been doing the

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lower number parallels and the autographs, but it seems like

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now for some reason, I don't know if it's because

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they're the specific moments that they're choosing, it just feels

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like there's a little bit more significance here with the

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tops now cards. And so doctor Beck, Cat'll ask you

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a question here with tops now, when the concept of

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the print on demand first started. I'm interested to hear

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from your perspective, like, was there even any hype around

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when TOPS now or when these print on demand's cards

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got started, or was it just like people thought it

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was just another idea. And now we're kind of at

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where we're at with with the with the concept itself.

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Speaker 5: All these direct consumer marketing approaches have had some merit

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because you just you print the cards and you're it's

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a much higher price point usually, and then they've added

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the lottery element, and the lottery element with the again,

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the addition of the bounties and the marketing push that

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goes behind hearing about these bounties, it just outrageously draws

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but brings up the production quantity such that I'm not

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sure the production quantity way into the six figures is

240
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very It's somewhat proportional, but not very correlated with the

241
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,360
size of the bounty. The size of the bounty it

242
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,039
has to do with the intrigue of the of the

243
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,399
moment and the historicity of the moment, and the coolness

244
00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:42,080
of the of the player, the subject, or the combination.

245
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So TOPS is laughing all the way to the bank.

246
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But again, if they've got to be careful not to

247
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kill the golden goose.

248
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Speaker 1: Right, correct, That's that's kind of what I'm thinking as well,

249
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Like the idea I was saying before, like, at what

250
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point are they just going to see diminishing returns?

251
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Speaker 3: Like at what point?

252
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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if there'll ever be a

253
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point within the sports card industry where a company loses

254
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,320
money on any type of product, But I don't know,

255
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,039
you have to figure that at one point they're going

256
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,759
to try and come out with one of these cards

257
00:12:10,879 --> 00:12:12,879
and it's just gonna flop like no one's gonna care,

258
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which I mean, if I'm gonna be honest, like a

259
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lot of the tops Now the other tops Now stuff,

260
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that's sort of what it was like.

261
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 3: I personally like tops Now a lot. You know.

262
00:12:23,919 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 1: Doctor Beckett says that he listens to the podcast I

263
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,000
do on Hobby News Daily, and you'll probably if you

264
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,559
listen to that podcast, you've heard me talk at length

265
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about how much I like tops Now cards. So for me,

266
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this is, you know this, I think that they've really

267
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I don't even think they've necessarily struck gold with this

268
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,279
card because they've been doing this so it's like it's

269
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,399
really I think it shows the importance of players versus

270
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,240
the actual product, like when you have a player, and

271
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,559
I think it's the same as just the market in general,

272
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:54,960
like the rookies are the chase cards. Like the rookie

273
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,519
cards are the ones that people really care about. And

274
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,679
this isn't necessarily a chase card, guess, but it's also

275
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,440
the player that is able that you're selling. Sorry, the

276
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,080
player is what the hype is around, not necessarily that

277
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,240
it's a tops Now card. So we you know, I'll

278
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,720
ask you, Rick, do you have any last thoughts? Here

279
00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:16,519
we are and we do have another.

280
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 2: Top but about one. Bobby with Jr. Just set up

281
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,600
a record. It's his second thirty to thirty season. He's

282
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,519
the youngest player ever to have two thirty thirty seasons.

283
00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:31,879
He plays shortstop. Otani was a DH. I can make

284
00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:34,000
an argument right now that Bobby with Junior is the

285
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,120
best player in baseball. If there's a signed Bobby with

286
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,759
Junior card, it's probably fly you know, from a tops

287
00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:42,840
Now if they have done such a thing, it's it's

288
00:13:42,879 --> 00:13:45,840
probably flying under the radar, so to speak. That might

289
00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:48,720
be a better play to buy the Bobby with cards

290
00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:53,080
than the heavily produced sho hey Otani card. Again that

291
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,320
you know, always be counterintuitive. As Jim says, low demand,

292
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,279
low supply, Well that's going to have a lower supply.

293
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,759
Then may not be lower demand, but it'll definitely lower supply.

294
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,360
The other thing, and I've always used to say this,

295
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,960
the end game for a lot of these companies is

296
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,759
direct to consumer, and Tops is doing a lot of that.

297
00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:13,399
They're also doing a great job getting people, like with

298
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,159
the promo last week about the hobby ripped night, Hobby

299
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,639
ripped day of people into their stores. So they're they're

300
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:23,679
doing both and the you know, we've always talked about

301
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,960
tenxing the hobby. Well, if you can expand both the

302
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,480
stores and the direct to consumer, you're on your way

303
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,240
to a ten X. And by doing more than just

304
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,240
baseballs you talked about Messi and Curry and all these people,

305
00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:40,039
you're on your way to your ten X. And that's

306
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,039
great marketing.

307
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,039
Speaker 5: However, on these tops Now cards, are we really getting

308
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,519
ten times as many buyers or are the current buyers

309
00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:49,519
buying ten times as many cards?

310
00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:49,879
Speaker 4: Right?

311
00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,279
Speaker 5: And that's that's the scary thing. That was the junk

312
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:59,240
wax era had you had people setting aside bricks one

313
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,320
hundred counts of certain players thinking, but everybody was doing it,

314
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,879
so this is this is dangerous territory.

315
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 4: It's dangerous because we have.

316
00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 6: The people with sixteen hundred.

317
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 1: Counts right right, and then so the other topic, actually

318
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,480
that's kind of similar. I mean I would consider this

319
00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:24,360
a oops, yep, I would consider this on the same part.

320
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,679
I think a lot of the takes will be very similar. Uh,

321
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,919
the one of one non autograph for the Steph Curry

322
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:36,840
Lebron James Kevin Durant card has been sent to Golden

323
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,960
and there was a twenty five thousand dollars bounty on

324
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,240
the card. I think it might have been Jeff Wilson

325
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,720
that put in the bounty. I think it's an interesting

326
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:48,039
topic actually that you know, Rich I'll start with you,

327
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,879
what are kind of your thoughts on just the bounties

328
00:15:51,879 --> 00:15:55,080
in general, because I think that's something that we along

329
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,120
with the you know, changing of landscape with the lottery

330
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:03,080
ticket per se aspect of these cards, like now we're

331
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,480
seeing bounties that if you want to say, you know,

332
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,639
for example, like that one bounty for the autograph started

333
00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:10,879
at like one hundred and fifty thousand and then someone

334
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,799
went up to five hundred thousand. So it's like, what

335
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,799
are your kind of thoughts overall on the bounty concept

336
00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:18,120
within sports cards and is it good?

337
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 3: Is it bad? Like kind of what are you thinking

338
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:19,879
about it.

339
00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 2: I'll go back to nineteen ninety eight. The lottery ticket

340
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,000
was getting some of those historic home run balls. McGuire's

341
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,639
sixty second home run ball ended up instead of in

342
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:31,840
the seats, you know, in the bullpen, and the groundskeeper

343
00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,159
handed it back to McGuire. He didn't get to He

344
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,279
got something out of it, but not the three million dollars.

345
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,759
The guy who got home run number seventy or whatever

346
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:43,840
it was, the final home run got when Todd McFarlane

347
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,960
wanted to make a play. It was a real collect

348
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,320
he's a legitimate collector. So there there was a lottery

349
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:52,039
then it really was interesting, but it was a lottery

350
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,840
open to everybody, so to speak. This is also a

351
00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,679
lottery open to everybody, and I don't have a problem

352
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,120
with that, and it becomes an individual decision. But it

353
00:17:01,159 --> 00:17:04,039
would change my life if I pulled that those sign

354
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,000
went on one card. It would also help my wife

355
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,039
if I pulled the one on one unsigned cart, you know,

356
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,200
and I'm okay with that. Hey, you know, you buy

357
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,880
a lottery ticket and you win something, it's a good feeling.

358
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,279
But then you have to then you realize, if you're

359
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,839
really smart, you have to plan, create a trust, to

360
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,880
create something to deal with the added wealth. I mean,

361
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,519
if I pulled something twenty five k, yeah, okay, I'll

362
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:29,720
take that. But if I pulled something for five hundred K,

363
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,599
I would make sure I would talk to an accountant

364
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,079
or a planner and say, all right, I'm getting this

365
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,319
one time fiduciary insane amount of money in how do I.

366
00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:39,759
Speaker 6: Deal with it?

367
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,079
Speaker 1: Yep, right, totally. And actually, I mean I think that's

368
00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:44,319
also a good point. It's just like, I mean, for me,

369
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,279
when I was first getting back into cards, I didn't

370
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:50,279
really think of the implications of like buying and selling.

371
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:51,880
So I mean, if you are, you know, if you're

372
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,680
listening to the show and you're a new person to

373
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,920
sports cards, tracking everything and just you know, having a

374
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,799
good relationship with your tax person is actually probably a

375
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:01,920
good idea. Just I mean even actually not even just

376
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,240
a sports card, just in general, because they'll you know,

377
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,599
they'll be able to help you out when it comes

378
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:06,240
down comes down.

379
00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:09,799
Speaker 3: To tax season. So doctor Beckett Ax, I'll switch it

380
00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:10,400
over to you here.

381
00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 1: These cards are not coming out of any packs. Some

382
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,680
people might even say that opening packs is also very

383
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,240
similar to a lottery ticket or something along those lines.

384
00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:25,799
But obviously it's a big shift. So do you you know,

385
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,880
do you think it's a good thing that we're doing

386
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,200
stuff like this or kind of what are your overall

387
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,359
thoughts on like the the the bounties and just like

388
00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:38,160
what seems like, I don't know, the it's almost it's

389
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,119
become almost gambling to this point where it's like you

390
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,720
literally are spending X to get X, and if you

391
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,640
don't get it, you'll still get a card technically, but

392
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:46,519
you won't get the one of one or you might

393
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:48,240
not get the one of one. So, like, what are

394
00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:51,119
your thoughts kind of overall on the the shift we've

395
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,119
sort of seen within sports cards to this maybe more

396
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,359
gambling aspect. I mean you could even throw maybe breakers

397
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:58,839
in there too, But what are kind of your overall

398
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,359
thoughts from that perspective society?

399
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 5: I mean, everybody's moving more toward a gambling orientation. But

400
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,640
like I said, I'm not in favor of things in

401
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,519
the hobby that are just purely based on luck. I

402
00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:15,240
think there ought to be some skill, and it might

403
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:17,759
be skilled to see, hey, there's a huge bounty on this.

404
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,799
The production quantity is not that large, I'm going to

405
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,720
jump in. But when the quantities get so big, it's

406
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:28,880
really a bad it's a bad bet. It's a bad gamble.

407
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,920
And so that's all I'm speaking against, and so people.

408
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,799
But what has to happen is there have to be

409
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,599
enough of these where people where the bounty is reneged

410
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,079
or the person doesn't take the bounty and they puts

411
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,720
it on heritage or golden or anybody and it goes

412
00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:53,000
for less than the bounty, which is possible so that

413
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,519
people can realize, hey, you've got to put some analysis

414
00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:01,319
to this, because there's no sure thing. In fact, it's

415
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,319
like I said, it's a bad bet. It's a bad

416
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,240
gamble to pay ten bucks to get a one and

417
00:20:07,319 --> 00:20:12,039
a zillion chance to make a million dollars. So I

418
00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:16,400
think again, eventually people wise up to what is a

419
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,640
good deal or a bad deal. When the price of

420
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,400
wax gets up too high, then people go to breaking.

421
00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:24,759
But then sooner or later they say, wait a minute,

422
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:27,440
If the price of wax is too high, even breaking

423
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,119
it if the secondary market prices don't support what I get,

424
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,279
even if I get.

425
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 3: My favorite team, right, Yeah, exactly.

426
00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:39,279
Speaker 5: It's moving in that direction, toward more of a gambling element,

427
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,240
more of a chance element. And like I said, I

428
00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,640
stand for make to me an enduring hobby, has a

429
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,240
has a knowledge component, has a skill component, and I hope,

430
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,160
hope that when you open a pack you don't know what.

431
00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:54,799
Speaker 1: You're going to get right, right, And then so Rich,

432
00:20:54,839 --> 00:20:57,920
I'll ask you this question for these type of cards.

433
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,680
Obviously from a money perspective, it doesn't really make sense

434
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,559
to limit the amount that people can order, But like,

435
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:08,680
do you think that adding some sort of some sort

436
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,440
of cap to how many of these can be purchased?

437
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,960
Like if five hundred k, let's say that's the cap,

438
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,079
do you think that would be a good idea for

439
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,799
tops or well, actually, no, it wouldn't be. It wouldn't

440
00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:20,039
be a good idea for Tops because if they can

441
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:21,720
sell six hundred k, they obviously want to sell six

442
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:23,680
hundred k. But do you think it would be better

443
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,920
I don't know for the industry or for people who

444
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,400
want to buy this card if they know that there's

445
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,799
going to be a cap on the cards.

446
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes offers are made max. You can order up

447
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,559
to ten, up to twenty. If that's where you're going from,

448
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:41,039
and the company's okay with that, I'm fine with it.

449
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,079
That is their decision, not our decision. You can also

450
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,720
make an individual decision as to how many you want

451
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:50,440
to buy. You know, whether you want to buy one,

452
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,759
whether you want to buy one hundred, that is your decision.

453
00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:56,519
And if the card company says I want this to

454
00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:59,839
go wider, you know, why the narrow instead of you know,

455
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:02,880
you know what you know. I may be phraised like

456
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,039
you sometimes have trouble saying it too on your but

457
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,519
you know you want to go wide and not so deep,

458
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,440
or do you want to go more deep? Then that's

459
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:14,720
that's up to them. If they don't want somebody buying

460
00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:17,319
a thousand, and they say your limit is one hundred,

461
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,400
that's great, your limit is twenty five, that's great. But

462
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:24,720
that's company's decision. Your personal decision is a different subject.

463
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:27,880
And here's the other reason why I don't think that's

464
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,039
a good idea. I'm a store owner, and let's say

465
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:34,119
there discounts for buying more, I offer them to my customers.

466
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,359
I send them out to my mailing list. Hey, if

467
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,799
you get me the money I will send you. You know,

468
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,960
we will buy in group a couple hundred. Your price

469
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,160
gets lowered because my price is lowered. And you're doing

470
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,759
an aggregation sort of like people do sending cards into grating.

471
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,200
You know, if you're if you're an aggregator for grading,

472
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,200
you probably get a better price on what you're sending

473
00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:59,839
in than if you're just the one person. So if

474
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,799
you do that, then why would you limit the store

475
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,839
from saying hey, you know, then you're limiting the store's

476
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,319
ability or the aggregator's ability to make money. So I'm

477
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,519
kind of torn on that. I understand the reason to

478
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,279
have limited quantity. But on the other hand, if I

479
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:18,960
walk into Triple Cards Low, you know, five minutes from

480
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,359
my house and they're doing something like that, and I

481
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,519
have a chance to buy this at a you know,

482
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,720
reduced price or even the price and not have to

483
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:28,920
worry about chipping because Triple gets a better price for

484
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:31,359
doing a lot. I'm not saying they do, but I'm

485
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,039
just saying I'm just doing a hypothetical. Then why wouldn't

486
00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:35,960
I just become part of the group and let them

487
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,799
have me the five packs when I walk.

488
00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:40,319
Speaker 1: In, right, and I think, you know, I think we

489
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,079
got a couple of good comments here that I wanted

490
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:46,559
to point out. So Rex had one basically saying that

491
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:49,319
the maker of the card is participating in the offering

492
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,119
of the bounty. I think that's I'm pretty sure that

493
00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:54,160
was like either one of the people who did the

494
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,839
bounty was kind of affiliated with TOP so I might

495
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:58,759
have been Jeff Wilson, I don't really, I don't remember,

496
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,119
or it could have been Golden and potentially was it

497
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,400
was somebody that did this bounty. And then also Brody

498
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,240
came in and said, what's stopping them from picking who

499
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,680
gets the card? And you know, that's also I think

500
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,519
that's that's just an issue just in general. I think

501
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,039
we have within the sports card industry, and one that

502
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,160
like if you were to let's say, if you were

503
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,440
to pull like how many people within the sports card industry,

504
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,240
and if you were to pull, like how many people

505
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,799
think that Tops or Panini actually do have some say

506
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:33,400
over where cards are going? You know, I think it

507
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,000
would be a pretty high percentage of people who might say, yeah,

508
00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:38,000
I think that they do know where these cards are going.

509
00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:39,920
Like I think that they do know which boxes have

510
00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:42,839
which things and which which cards are going which place,

511
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:46,119
and we're seeing such like I think the money in

512
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,359
general in the industry right now is more than we've

513
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,240
ever seen. And you know, I'll kick to you here,

514
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,839
doctor Beck, and I'll ask you this question. Uh, do

515
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,440
you think that back in the day this sort of

516
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,880
thing could have even happen? Like if print on a man,

517
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,079
let's say, print on demand was a concept that happened

518
00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:07,240
in like the eighties or the nineties, do you think

519
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:09,720
that there would have been this much excitement around it

520
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:10,799
or do you think that there would have been this

521
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,079
much money spent? I mean, I know that like this

522
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,039
is sort of like we're we're looking at a really

523
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:17,079
different industry than we were back then. But like, what

524
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,160
do you think of overall? Do you think the industry

525
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,200
would have liked something like this? Do you think it

526
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,079
would have reacted the same? Like what do you think

527
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,640
if you compare the era we're in now versus you know,

528
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:29,400
maybe before tops now was kind of created.

529
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 4: It's the boiling frog thing?

530
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,759
Speaker 5: Is it that the temperature has increased every year and

531
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,680
now it's it's getting pretty close to boiling so you

532
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,119
couldn't just all of a sudden do it ten years,

533
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,160
twenty years, thirty years ago. This has been a gradual movement.

534
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:49,079
You had to have Pennini instant Tops now, and then

535
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,960
you had to it's gradually evolving toward more of a

536
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:54,079
gambling the bounties.

537
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,799
Speaker 4: I will say this, I would think.

538
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:02,039
Speaker 5: That Jeff Wilson or anybody else that puts out a

539
00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:09,119
bounty for a Tops or Fanatics product, I would really

540
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:14,759
really doubt that there's any contractual or explicit agreement. You know,

541
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:16,960
I don't know that that's what Rex is saying, but

542
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,640
there has been speculation about that would be very unwise

543
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:27,440
and probably unnecessary because Tops is looking at who's putting

544
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,680
out the bounties, and not that they're gonna well, I mean,

545
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:36,000
they're going to look favorably upon people that support their

546
00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:39,440
products with their own marketing efforts. Now, I'm not in

547
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:42,680
the camp that thinks, okay, then, to me, that means

548
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,720
Jeff Wilson might get preferred allocations, as he perhaps should

549
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,759
anyway from having a very large influential store in media presence.

550
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,799
But I really don't go as far to say that

551
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,960
he's going to get loaded boxes that would that would

552
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,960
be that could be the end of a company.

553
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 4: And again it's it's just too big of a secret

554
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:02,480
to keep.

555
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:06,279
Speaker 5: So I really I'm willing to bet the rest of

556
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:09,279
my life on the fact that these card companies are

557
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:14,279
not cheating in terms of giving product other than first

558
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,680
off the line, which is not cheating. But if you

559
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,000
get the first off the line, you're expected to get

560
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,960
bigger hits and so again, but again it's that's that's transparency. Uh,

561
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:30,240
this any cheating like that would undermine the whole confidence

562
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,799
in the whole in the whole industry. And so I really,

563
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,960
really I'm betting the rest of my life as a

564
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,039
hobbyist on that, because the hobby would go away if

565
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,880
there was that kind of cheating. And it's it's it's

566
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,720
too big of a secret to not be able to

567
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,519
extort if you if you're in on the secret, you'd

568
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:50,200
be able to hold everybody else hostage.

569
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: So I really don't think that's happening.

570
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 5: But OPS is pleased if Jeff Wilson steps up and says, hey,

571
00:27:57,279 --> 00:27:59,400
let me be the first one to do a bounty

572
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,680
tops his noting that and saying he supports our brand.

573
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, I mean the thing, I like the bounties.

574
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:10,559
I think that they're fine for marketing. I think, you know,

575
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,680
we've seen Dave and Adams do bounties and then they

576
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,240
like go and make content about it, So like I

577
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:20,359
like that. But one thing I didn't necessarily love about

578
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,720
this one was that a lot of the bounty stuff

579
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:26,400
came out before the print run was available. Now, thinking

580
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,599
back on the timeline, I don't one hundred percent know

581
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:33,400
if the bounties were put out before the before the

582
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,559
the time or the time of when they stop selling

583
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:39,519
the cards. So like, from that perspective, I don't love

584
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:42,640
that there were you know, Wilson and Golden and like

585
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,160
a couple other people were putting out bounties before we

586
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,680
even knew what the print run of the card was

587
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,559
going to be. And I don't know if they if

588
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:52,599
maybe they knew about the print run or if if

589
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,079
if in a way, putting out the bounty is away

590
00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:58,599
for tops to get more sales. Like but again, like

591
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:00,880
I don't I don't remember one hundred the timeline of

592
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,000
when the bounties wor put out versus like when they

593
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:05,880
stop selling the cards. But you know, Rich, so I'll

594
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,480
kick it to you, and I'll ask you this question here.

595
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:10,759
Do you think that do you think that they should

596
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:14,119
continue with this type of product release the way that

597
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,359
they're releasing it with like a one of one, which

598
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,559
I also think that it you know, the the print

599
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:21,440
runs also have to do with like it's a Curry

600
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:25,559
Lebron Steph KD card. You know, it's a Steph Curry

601
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,680
or Steph Curry MESSI card, or it's a show here

602
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:30,720
Tony some of the biggest names in sports, so like

603
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,599
to say that they're the players, are the ones pulling

604
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,279
these numbers would make a lot of sense. So for you, Rich,

605
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:37,759
I'll ask you this, what do you think that they

606
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:40,920
should keep going with this kind of concept or do

607
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,960
you think it's like maybe they should see if they

608
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,920
can slow things down because they did the one and

609
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440
now they've done two already since this it's really kind

610
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,279
of crazy, So you know, I'll ask you that question there.

611
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,839
Speaker 2: Well, I think doctor Beckett pointed out that there were parallels.

612
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,240
If they've done one of one parallels of every tops

613
00:29:56,279 --> 00:29:58,599
Now card, you can presume they're going to do a

614
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,119
one of one of this too, So you don't even

615
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,880
need advanced knowledge to know that Hey, they've done a

616
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,440
one on one on ninety percent of the Top Now cards.

617
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:09,759
Pretty good idea that, hey, they'll make a one on

618
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:12,599
one of this, So you don't need advance knowledge to

619
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:14,240
know that they're going to do a.

620
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 6: One on one.

621
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: You can make a presumption you know, you don't you know.

622
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,920
That's a presumption you don't need to make. You know,

623
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:24,160
you know that going in, just like you know if

624
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,519
you know that in Base Tops there's a superfractor of

625
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:31,279
every chrome card, you know that they've been making super fractors.

626
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,680
You know they've been making printing presses, printing plates. You

627
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,200
don't need to know what the print run is to

628
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,279
make a bounty. If there is a show hey special

629
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:43,720
card next year that's a one on one from the

630
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:48,839
Tops twenty twenty five packs, you don't need to know

631
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:50,440
the print run. You know it's going to be a

632
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,519
lot in Tops one, but you don't need to know

633
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:54,920
the print run to make a bounty in advance. You

634
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,960
can say, hey, you know, once you see the checklist,

635
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,680
there'll be a one on one I'm making. I'm making

636
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,000
the bound empty, so I don't have a problem with

637
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,759
that part of it. Also, we were talking about printed demand. Well, again,

638
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:09,640
we're old enough to know that in the nineteen eighties,

639
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,920
Tops did what they called Tiffany sets, which were parallel

640
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:16,000
sets made in Ireland of the base sets and scored

641
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,440
at eighty eight, and Fleer did Fleer Glossy. They were

642
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,079
printed to order eighty seven Fleer Glossy if they made

643
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,440
over one hundred thousand US because they were printed to order. Again,

644
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:28,720
so we've been there before too with print to order sets.

645
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,119
I'm actually a big fan of the Tiffany's and the Glossies,

646
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,119
and I will tell you the eighty eight score Glossy

647
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,559
Traded an update. Those are very difficult cards. They were

648
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:41,519
difficult in the late eighties. They're more difficult today.

649
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 6: I know.

650
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: Our trade show manager, Andy Jones spent a long time

651
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:50,640
looking for the Mark Grace Score Rooky and Traded Glossy cart.

652
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,279
He finally got one, but it took him several years.

653
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,079
So and those were printed to order. So again, as

654
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,640
Chris Harris pointed out in the chat, it seems like

655
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,160
history repeats itself every thirty to forty years in this

656
00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:07,880
and you just understand and you play the game, and

657
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,960
if you take advantage of the game the way it is,

658
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,720
and then when things calm down, you take advantage of

659
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,200
it that way too. And if it doesn't calm down,

660
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,240
we've hit the ten x mark fanatics.

661
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: One right, right, it looks like we have someone who

662
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,279
has was in our pre show meeting here because we're

663
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:24,160
gonna be talking about.

664
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,799
Speaker 3: This a little bit later on.

665
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: That's and then this was actually gonna be probably my

666
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:34,000
last question here for this topic was the auto one

667
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,680
of one, Like, I'm surprised we haven't seen it yet.

668
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: I mean all the cards.

669
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: I think I was asking you rich before the show started, like,

670
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,079
I mean from your perspective, like, where do you think

671
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,079
the card is? Like that's I guess that's maybe my

672
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,440
question here as we sort of wrap up this topic,

673
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,279
I guess.

674
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,039
Speaker 2: It's sitting in a pack somewhere. Probably the next Dallas

675
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:54,920
card shall be able to buy a pack and there

676
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,640
it may't been in there. I mean seriously, who knows,

677
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,519
or somebody may be holding it for various reasons.

678
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 6: Again, who knows?

679
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:05,119
Speaker 1: And then actually so then someone had an interesting topic

680
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:09,079
or a question here or statement. Top's offering a bounty

681
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,880
establishes a market value for the card and a ready

682
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:17,119
market mechanism to realize it slippery slope. Yeah, I think

683
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:19,839
I agree with that, And I mean, you know, the

684
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:23,119
market cap. I guess it's kind of a concept that

685
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,960
people some people talk about, some people don't. People try

686
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,680
and stay away from a little bit. But overall, you know,

687
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,559
this card, the autograph, you know it has that five

688
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,400
hundred thousand dollars bounty. This card had the twenty five

689
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,519
hundred or twenty five thousand. Now it's already up to

690
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:41,720
twenty four thousand, you know, twenty nine thousand with the

691
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,640
buyer's premium. So doctor Beckett'll ask you this question, what

692
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,759
what do you think this card ends up selling for?

693
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:50,480
And then once the one of one auto comes out,

694
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,720
do you have any feel for like what you think

695
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:53,640
that card will sell for?

696
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: Either I can't.

697
00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:56,759
Speaker 4: Predict the pricing.

698
00:33:57,359 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 5: Again, when you get an auction, auctions either go high

699
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:03,640
or low. They I think, to think that an auction

700
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:09,079
establishes the value of something is an archaic notion. You know,

701
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,239
some auctions go way high and some go way low.

702
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,239
So we'll see, you know they again, even the bounty,

703
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,679
these bounties to me again, I take what Rex said.

704
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,079
I'm just wondering if there's contractual language. Most of these

705
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:30,719
bounties are just or just offhand remarks or are put

706
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,239
out into the social media space of hey, I'm offering this,

707
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,599
but what are the conditions? You know, what is the

708
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,679
you know, what are the caveats there? So you know,

709
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:42,559
if you put it up in an auction, you're saying, hey,

710
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,199
I'm going to sell it to the highest bidder. And

711
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,159
so to put a bounty, I think the bounty has

712
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,559
conditions and many time limits. You can't come up in

713
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,679
ten years and say hey, you had a bounty here.

714
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,119
So so it is is it a legal contract? And

715
00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:01,639
if it is, and if Jeff Wilson has a deal

716
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,760
with with TOPS fanatics, then then that's kind of discoverable.

717
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,159
Speaker 4: And what would be is that you know, it needs to.

718
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 5: Be above board, and I guess that's possible, but it's

719
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,639
gonna make people nervous.

720
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 4: It makes me nervous.

721
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, same, I mean just from a I don't know,

722
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:20,719
it's maybe it's a little extreme, but from a like

723
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:24,440
the hobby would be ruined type situation, like if there

724
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,079
were if Tops, if it ever came out that Tops

725
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:29,199
was able to control where this card was going and

726
00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:32,119
they picked that just is I don't know what would

727
00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:34,559
happen to the industry. I don't know what would happen overall,

728
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:37,199
but that would be anarchy like that would be if

729
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,159
something ever comes out about that, it would I don't know,

730
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,519
just obviously not not be that great.

731
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 3: And we got one more you know, shout.

732
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: Out to Mike for putting us on, putting us on

733
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,159
all those TVs at Best Buy.

734
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,159
Speaker 3: Shout out to you know, obviously you love you love

735
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:50,639
seeing that.

736
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,599
Speaker 1: Mike also talking about the bounty being the next hobby

737
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:56,800
scam like breaking and mysterious packaging.

738
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's I don't know.

739
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: I think I think we use the word scam pretty

740
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,599
liberally in the industry, So to call it a scam,

741
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,679
I don't I don't necessarily know if it's you know,

742
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:10,400
I don't know, I don't know if i'd call it

743
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,800
a scam necessarily. But like the like, I think some

744
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,800
people put out good content about it and some people

745
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,920
just kind of put it out for a marketing thing, like,

746
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,199
So it's really kind of it depends on where it's

747
00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:22,199
coming from, in my opinion.

748
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:24,199
Speaker 3: So we're gonna.

749
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,199
Speaker 1: Move towards a couple like it's kind of a couple

750
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:29,519
of different things here. So first of all, we have

751
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:35,119
the score checklist and Caleb Williams is nowhere to be found.

752
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,239
You search Williams, you got Caleb Williams not on the

753
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,760
score checklist for the NFL. Marvin Harrison Junior is on there.

754
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:46,440
And you know, Rich, before the show started, you kind

755
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,079
of brought this up to me and I didn't really understan.

756
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:51,039
I didn't really realize that, like these new products are

757
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:54,440
coming out, and with Caleb Williams not on there, it's

758
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,400
an interesting discussion, especially because he does have he does

759
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:03,639
have tops Now and Panini Instant cards, so you know,

760
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,159
from that perspective, I don't know, like what the not.

761
00:37:07,199 --> 00:37:09,360
It's not necessarily the hold up, but it's like he

762
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,760
has both of these other cards, So like why, oh dang,

763
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,039
I did it again? Sorry about that. I was gonna

764
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:19,400
show the other card, the Panini Instant. He has cards

765
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,199
from both of those tops Now sets. So you know, Rich,

766
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,920
I'll kick to you first, like what are your kind

767
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,119
of thoughts here? I mean, you were the one that

768
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,599
told me about this, so what were kind of your

769
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,119
thoughts about this?

770
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 3: In general?

771
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: Well, he better start throwing some touchdown passes pretty soon.

772
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,480
He's not exactly what the world on fire in the

773
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:39,960
first two games. Then again, being a rookie NFL quarterback

774
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:43,199
is not that easy. But I think it'll be interesting

775
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,079
to see what, if any sets he shows up at.

776
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:49,440
He's been very protective of his own rights, and this

777
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:53,000
could be a corollary to me of the NIL issues

778
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:56,920
in colleges. Athletes are controlling their own rights a lot

779
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,199
more nowadays, and we you know, like, for example, I'm

780
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:02,800
gonna go way back in the day, Eric Dickerson had

781
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,159
a couple of years where he did not have football

782
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:08,119
cards in the base sets because he controlled his own licensing.

783
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,400
Earl Campbell did not have cards after nineteen seventy nine.

784
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:15,000
He was very specific about controlling his own licensing. There

785
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:18,519
is nothing wrong with a player controlling their own licensing.

786
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,639
And therefore, if he wants to control his own license

787
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:25,920
in a certain way, that's fine. That's name, image and license.

788
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,000
And we've seen with college you know, the effects in

789
00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:31,199
some ways of that. But if you know, if he

790
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,440
thinks he can do better a different way, I'm okay

791
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:33,719
with that.

792
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:34,119
Speaker 4: Yeah.

793
00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: And like I said, Marvin Harrison Junior is in there,

794
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:39,960
so it's interesting. I hadn't you know, the big thing

795
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:42,480
this offseason with Marvin Harrison junior, he hadn't signed with

796
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:46,119
the players Union like now is but nobody really talked

797
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:48,400
about Caleb Williams, which I I don't know why one

798
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:51,519
versus the other wouldn't be more popular there. But so,

799
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,599
doctor Beckett, I'll ask you this question. In the past,

800
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,239
have whether it's basketball or football, because baseball I don't

801
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,000
think this really happens. But with basketball or football, have

802
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,960
you seen players in their rookie season decide not to

803
00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:07,679
be in products? Like is that something you've ever seen before?

804
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,679
Like it just it's it's interesting to me that we're

805
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,000
kind of seeing more of it now because you know,

806
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,360
like Rich was saying with the nil, so like, have

807
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,800
you seen that in the past where a player is like,

808
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,599
I don't want to be in the product, or you know,

809
00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:21,239
they're like they're protecting their image and likeness. I suppose

810
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,519
have you seen something like that ever?

811
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:26,519
Speaker 5: Well, Rich already mentioned some things and what the end

812
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:30,079
result of that was with the player wasn't on any

813
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:33,320
cards for a few years now we've got still with

814
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,639
Panini and Tops. They'll be on one but not the

815
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:39,199
other perhaps, or they can be on one the other

816
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,320
one has their autograph and memorabilia rights, and so we're

817
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,960
not getting shut out, and the nil is in a

818
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,639
whole other story. So yeah, I just think it's it's

819
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:56,239
gotten confusing. Most people are not looking for Caleb Williams

820
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,239
base cards, you know, you know, you got to be

821
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,480
a really big star, a huge star and not just

822
00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:07,719
a promising star to be able to sell base cards,

823
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,920
even rookie base cards. They want autographs, game used or

824
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:17,239
more limited, shorter printed things. And so but like you

825
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,440
was said, Caleb's got it. He's probably got a terrible

826
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,280
offensive line, but he's got to produce one way or another,

827
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,440
or you know, what's going on in the field really.

828
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: Matters, right, Definitely, definitely, And I think the other interesting

829
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,320
piece of this too, Oh sorry, go ahead, Rich and Adam.

830
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: To be honest, baseball's had this too. In the fifties,

831
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,840
it was pretty infamous that Stan Musial had no cards

832
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,400
between fifty four and fifty seven. Ted Williams had the

833
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,480
fifty four Bowman that got pulled, and he doesn't have

834
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:52,119
any cards between fifty two and fifty three and fifty

835
00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:54,360
seven other than the Bowman card that got pulled in

836
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,119
fifty four. Actually had fifty four tops with any us.

837
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,199
You know, there's the Ted Williams conundrum that popped in

838
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,800
for a couple of years and then so there's always something.

839
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,920
And then in the seventies Rusty Stob who was a

840
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,400
pretty good player, had no cards. In seventy one and

841
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,320
seventy two, Rick reik Hard and in the eighties Kevin

842
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,920
McReynolds doesn't have a TOPS card until eighty. He's got

843
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,800
donors and flear, but he doesn't have a TOPS card

844
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,360
to eighty's seven tops traded. And I believe there's a

845
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,800
couple of other people. So it does happen even in

846
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,000
baseball into the eighties. So so you can't exclude baseball.

847
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:29,960
Baseball has been there too, So it becomes an individual choice.

848
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,519
And you know, I didn't mean to interrupt you there,

849
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:34,199
and I'm sorry, but I want to tell that baseball

850
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,199
has had the same issues. And yes, and people would

851
00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:41,079
at least for the first Caleb Williams, at least to

852
00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,000
start the season, they would want his base cards. As

853
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:45,880
I said, if the offensive line is bad and the

854
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,960
team's not good, maybe then they'll then maybe then they'll stop.

855
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,519
But if you want to go be part of the hype.

856
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:53,840
There may be no hype by the time MICHAELEB Williams

857
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:54,960
rookie card comes.

858
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,119
Speaker 3: Out, right right yeah, And I don't know.

859
00:41:57,119 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean maybe this is obviously speculation, but you know,

860
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,760
maybe Caleb Williams knows the industry maybe a little bit

861
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,320
better than some other athletes, so like maybe he's like,

862
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,039
I don't want to be in score. I want to

863
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:09,440
only be in a certain amount of products. And I

864
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,639
don't know if that changes the industry really, but if

865
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:14,719
like if players, because like that was sort of the

866
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,280
thing like with with with the generation of players that

867
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,519
are coming up now, they have they know how to

868
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:21,440
use social media, they know how to use the internet.

869
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,440
They are I would feel like they're probably pretty aware

870
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:27,119
of some of the other big rookie cards that have sold.

871
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,159
And I don't know if they have an agent or

872
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,039
whatever that's in the industry, but that one that could say, hey,

873
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:35,000
don't you don't we don't want to be in score

874
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:38,079
because we know that score is worthless or not worthless

875
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,760
because obviously, you know, people buy it. But like, I

876
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,119
don't know overall, I just think maybe somebody is in

877
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:45,760
his ear being like we need to we need to

878
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,079
be in exclusive products.

879
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:48,679
Speaker 3: We don't want to be in all the products.

880
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: Maybe, And I don't know if that's going to change

881
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,960
the change the landscape the industry, if players can just

882
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,840
pick and choose which products they're in, I don't know.

883
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,599
Speaker 3: I guess we'll see.

884
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: But the other the other kind of piece of this

885
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,639
that I wanted to bring up here is that there

886
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,159
was some reporting this week that the tops Now cards, So,

887
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:07,360
I mean, I guess we can just even because we

888
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,679
were talking about Kleb Williams, I'll pull that card up.

889
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:12,639
Uh that a lot of the tops Now cards that

890
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:18,920
they're coming out with are images from college, which I

891
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,119
don't know, in a way to me kind of diminishes

892
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:27,320
the point of tops Now. I mean, yeah, I guess,

893
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,039
like I've said in the past, I like tops Now

894
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:31,920
and I've done a lot of research on it. So

895
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:34,840
like for me, I don't love that they went this

896
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,159
way or just deciding to go this way. It's probably

897
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,599
like a licensing thing if I had to guess. Oh,

898
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,599
Brody actually brought up a point said there's a mysterydemption

899
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:45,960
and people think it's Williams. So the thing about me,

900
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,880
the thing that I just said about Williams deciding not

901
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,199
to be in a product that might not be real.

902
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,920
That might be he might be in this product like

903
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,920
as a mystery redemption or something like that. But so

904
00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:59,440
you know, Tops has used photoshop, not like I don't

905
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,519
think like this necessarily Like with with the non licensed

906
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,119
suff they obviously have to use photoshop to get those

907
00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:08,760
logos off. And I'm a big fan of the photos

908
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,360
that they are using. Like this photo for example, you

909
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,760
can see that you wouldn't really be able to see

910
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
the logo which would be up here, and then maybe

911
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,039
the logo across the chesses is you know, photoshopped out.

912
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:21,840
But so you know, doctor Beckett, I'll start with you,

913
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,719
what are kind of your thought overall thoughts on the

914
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,079
choice here that Tops is using college cards for these

915
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,519
for the Tops Now debut pro.

916
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 5: Card photoshopping and you know that's been going on for

917
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,239
a long time. Again, the card companies are out to

918
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,599
make money and they've got a certain expense of photoshopping

919
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,679
an existing photo, are going out and getting a fresh

920
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,119
photo and for tops Now and other things that are

921
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:51,320
more instant, Uh, they're they're going to be expedient and

922
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,679
they're guys, when we talk about ten xing the hobby.

923
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,320
When we ten x the hobby, it's going to be

924
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,639
even a smaller percentage of the people that are going

925
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,119
to ca about whether a photo was reused. I mean,

926
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,000
the main new collector just says, hey, I got a

927
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:10,880
I got a new card here, and they're they're not

928
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,199
going to do the photo matching. It's it's only the

929
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,239
purest the advanced collector is the super serious collector, and

930
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,280
so I just I think it'll blow over. I mean,

931
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:23,760
it's not going to value the card. Oh I'm gonna,

932
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,199
I'm gonna. I'm not interested in that because it's a

933
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,320
reused photo that that happens a lot, and it has

934
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:30,079
for a long time.

935
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: Let me just put photoshopping and quest the.

936
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,599
Speaker 2: Year of the flood the ninety the greatest photo that

937
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:39,599
most people consider from fifty three bowmen, the pee Wee

938
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:42,000
reached jumping in the air photo is from a nineteen

939
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:46,079
forty seven magazine photoshopping. There's nothing new the photo shopping.

940
00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:49,119
It's not a big deal, you know. I hate to say, Jim,

941
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,599
this is where I'll use the Estay's CAFA for Mickey

942
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:52,360
mantle line.

943
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 6: My views are exactly the same as Jimps.

944
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:55,039
Speaker 3: Yeah.

945
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you know, Rach, I'll ask you this question.

946
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,400
So you don't think it matters necessarily that these cards

947
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,360
are these cards are supposed to kind of commemorate a

948
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,719
moment of these players on the field, and but they're

949
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,400
not using an image of the player during the actual

950
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,920
game that they're supposed to be promoting, Like you don't

951
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,079
so rich, you don't think that's like a big, big

952
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:19,519
deal or anything like That's that's kind of where because

953
00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:22,159
I obviously, you know, from being a graphic designer, the

954
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:24,119
photoshop stuff, like you know, you can go back to

955
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,000
like what it was. I mean even just there was

956
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,639
like an who was it John Carlo Ston when he

957
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,559
first started playing for the Yankees in whatever year that

958
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:34,679
he got traded, there was an image of him in

959
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,079
a the Marlins uniform and then they use the same

960
00:46:39,159 --> 00:46:41,400
exact image and just photo shopped him into a Yankees'

961
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,639
uniform in two different products. So obviously that's different. But

962
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,760
like for these ones, they're commemorating a moment in these

963
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,480
players' careers, like, but they're not using an actual image

964
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,679
from the game. Like do you do you see any

965
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:54,440
problem there or is it? Is it kind of just

966
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:55,960
like what, it's really not that big of a deal,

967
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,000
like like like Jim was saying, like some people might notice,

968
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,480
but the majority of people aren't really going to care.

969
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: Remember right now, Tops can't use the logo. Tops fanatics

970
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,960
can't use the logos for a year or two. I

971
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,480
think this may be the last year for football. I

972
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:12,519
think basketball maybe two years, or its vice versa. You're

973
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,880
more interested in whom the player is rather than the

974
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:18,679
you know, in this case, if you're somewhat savy, you

975
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,840
want to have the Caleb will Williams card or you know,

976
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,920
all these all these ricky quarterbacks. So it's not a

977
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:30,079
big deal that it's not the uniform at the time.

978
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:33,360
It's and if you're just an average collector, you don't

979
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,440
get into this. And it's almost somewhat minutia. I mean,

980
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,039
look at some of these baseball cards from the seventies

981
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:42,320
where they airbrush out the you know, it's obvious it's

982
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,840
a Yankees jersey and he's been traded to the Cleveland Indians,

983
00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:47,880
and you still see the pinstripes.

984
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,559
Speaker 6: I mean, nobody really worries about it.

985
00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:54,079
Speaker 2: I mean, sixty eight Tops Earl grow football card, he's

986
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:57,480
obviously wearing a green Day Packers uniform. It's a Pittsburgh

987
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:00,599
Stealers card. It's not a big deal that they're using

988
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:03,480
the Green Bay package. Should they have air brushed it out?

989
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 6: Sure? Is it a big deal?

990
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: You still if you're a Steelers collector of the sixties,

991
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:09,280
you're still buying that car.

992
00:48:09,519 --> 00:48:11,079
Speaker 6: So I don't really have an issue.

993
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 5: Well, it might be easier. It might be easier because

994
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,000
you know, here's Jade and Daniels. You know, you don't

995
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:21,119
have to worry about airbrushing out the you know, the

996
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,360
team logos in NFL.

997
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just do the you just do the colors,

998
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,000
and so it might be.

999
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: Simpler, right right, Yeah, And I mean, well, so here's

1000
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,880
my thing. As long as they the jerseys that they're

1001
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,239
photoshopping are correct, because like that's you know here we're

1002
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,559
seeing a little bit of a difference between like, you know,

1003
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,320
the like this part of the jersey here in this

1004
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,960
part and then like the helmet, Like, as long as

1005
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,960
they are making sure that all the details are correct.

1006
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,039
Like honestly, if I were them, I would have even

1007
00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:54,440
tried to photoshop in that.

1008
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,159
Speaker 3: Logo, the the the.

1009
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,559
Speaker 1: Debut logo on some of these cards just to kind

1010
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:01,480
of add a little bit of more spice to it.

1011
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:03,800
And maybe maybe they don't want to. Maybe they maybe, oh, actually,

1012
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,480
we know what. That has the NFL logo, so maybe

1013
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,039
they're not allowed to. But you know, like like you

1014
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:09,599
guys are saying, there are some of the most iconic

1015
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:12,400
cards of all time, like the Ken Graphy Junior upper

1016
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,480
Deck Upper Deck card that's photoshop. Like I think maybe

1017
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,920
people don't realize that, like that's not a like that

1018
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,360
he wasn't wearing. I think they photoshopped the logo on

1019
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,920
the hat on that card and that's like notoriously one

1020
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,639
of the most iconic cards of all time. So yeah,

1021
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:28,800
I think, like you said, the photoshop doesn't really matter.

1022
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,519
I just think it's interesting that they the tops now

1023
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:35,079
is a moment in time and they are using it

1024
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:37,079
on that type of thing, which I again, I think

1025
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:39,840
it's it's it's I think some I think it was

1026
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,039
either rich or doctor Beckett used the word minutia. I

1027
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:44,960
think that's that is kind of what it is there,

1028
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,639
Like it's kind of looking into details that are I

1029
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:50,000
don't know, important, but also kind of just like I

1030
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:51,840
don't think people are gonna know, you know, it's it's

1031
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,920
similar to the uh the one of one when Beinyana

1032
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,679
card was also pulled and that U I kind of

1033
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,840
put together an article for SI and I was like, people,

1034
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,159
are people even gonna know that that card is unlicensed

1035
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:09,159
in twenty years from now? And it's maybe similar to this,

1036
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,280
Like I wonder if people are gonna look back at

1037
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,519
some of those things, and so, you know, Rich, I'll

1038
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,159
ask you this question, like looking back in time, are

1039
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:20,719
there any cards that you're like that you know, we're photoshopped,

1040
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,440
but you're and that deters you from buying it? Like,

1041
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,480
does is that something that would deter you from buying

1042
00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:25,840
a card?

1043
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: I think I've never even once considered whether a card

1044
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,760
was photoshopped before I bought it or not. If there

1045
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,119
is a Mickey Mantle card that's photoshopped, then it was

1046
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,039
the right price.

1047
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,199
Speaker 6: Fine. You know Ken Griffy Junior eighty nine up deck,

1048
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:40,039
you have a chance.

1049
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 4: To buy it.

1050
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,559
Speaker 6: Why would why why would you care that the card

1051
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:47,360
is photoshopped? You know it's an iconic card? Why would

1052
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:47,679
you care?

1053
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 5: Right, guys, the brand and the player are way more

1054
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,719
important than the licensing status and the photo, not minutia.

1055
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,880
But I mean, it could even be a caricature of

1056
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,800
the player, and if it's the right player with the

1057
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:05,000
and it's a tops card or even Panini or Upper deck.

1058
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,079
A major card company puts out a card of a

1059
00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:09,920
great player that's very popular.

1060
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,119
Speaker 4: Terrible photo, you know, airbrush.

1061
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 5: Photo, not fully licensed people, they're still going to be

1062
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,800
significant demand for and twenty years later it may not

1063
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,639
even matter because we're moving in that direction more and

1064
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:26,039
more toward brand and player and away from full or

1065
00:51:26,039 --> 00:51:29,599
partial licensing status. And now as we're and again they

1066
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:32,679
love it that we're talking about it. This is creating

1067
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,480
buzz and oh hey, it's that photo.

1068
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 4: Was reused and touched up.

1069
00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:41,079
Speaker 5: You know, that's that's it's not positive press, but it's press.

1070
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 3: It's buzz, right yeah.

1071
00:51:43,039 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: And I think, honestly too, that's sort of how I

1072
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,159
might view on the industry has shifted a little bit

1073
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:50,880
over the past like a year or so. It's like,

1074
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,239
I think looking at things in a one year window

1075
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,920
really like if you look at the industry, it's never

1076
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:02,320
The industry has always been about like history and historic things.

1077
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:04,880
So to look at things in a one year window,

1078
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,800
I think is tough because I think that's when you're

1079
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,159
hearing everyone's opinions and everyone talking about it. Now, I've

1080
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:12,800
been looking at things in more of like a ten

1081
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,480
to fifteen year window and saying, like, what's gonna happen?

1082
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,800
Like like, like I said, exactly, the point is, like

1083
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,519
are people even going to care in ten to fifteen

1084
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,400
years whether the card is photoshopped or not, or like

1085
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:24,760
maybe people just won't want the card either way, Like

1086
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,760
that could be the thing, like who knows Jane Daniels

1087
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,679
or you know, Caleb Williams or any of these players

1088
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:30,559
could turn out to be bused, Like obviously we root

1089
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:32,159
for them and we hope that they aren't because, like

1090
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:34,760
you said, doctor Beckett, it's all about the players, like

1091
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,880
it really is. If a player is an important player

1092
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,000
within the industry or within their sport, that's what people

1093
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:44,280
care about more than if the card is photoshopped, I think.

1094
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,679
And so I'm just gonna highlight some comments here. We

1095
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,880
got a million Cubs projects said the seventy seventy four

1096
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,519
tops bob Locker Cubs card has Reggie Jackson patrolling in

1097
00:52:56,559 --> 00:52:59,679
the outfield behind him. I'm guessing that was maybe there

1098
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,519
was ahotoshop that they missed. There potentially, and then Warren said,

1099
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,159
you have the choice whether you buy the card or not.

1100
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,800
If it's photoshopped, don't buy and don't buy them. If

1101
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,760
you like it, buy them. I think that's that's kind

1102
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,360
of my sentiment I think in the industry just in general,

1103
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,280
is like, if you like the card, buy it. If

1104
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,400
you don't, then don't buy it. Like that's just sort

1105
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,679
of how I view things nowadays compared to you know,

1106
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,159
I don't know a couple of years ago, where if

1107
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:25,800
somebody didn't like something and they were talking about how

1108
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,440
they didn't like it online, I would get like upset

1109
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,239
because I'm like, I like this thing, why do other

1110
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:30,079
people not like it?

1111
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: You know?

1112
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:34,039
Speaker 1: It would be stuff along those lines. And we are

1113
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:36,159
kind of coming up on the top of the hour here. Wow,

1114
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,280
time time really does fly when you're when you're around

1115
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,199
such good historians like Rich and doctor Beckett here. So

1116
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,119
you know, Rich, I'll kick to you. Do you have

1117
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:47,320
any final thoughts here for the episode? As we wrap

1118
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:47,719
things up?

1119
00:53:48,039 --> 00:53:51,199
Speaker 2: Well on licensed cards, if the price was right and

1120
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,159
you had the money, would you object to buying a

1121
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,400
T two O six Honus Wagoner card that was only

1122
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,000
not even supposedly player license. Would you object the buy

1123
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,400
buying a seventy two Julius seventy two to seventy three

1124
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,079
Tops Julius Irving Rookie that's not licensed? Would you object

1125
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:09,920
to buying a fifty seven Tops Johnny United's Rookie card

1126
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,079
that's not licensed? Would you object to buying a fifty

1127
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:17,760
two Tops Mantle that's not licensed? So that, again, history

1128
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,280
tells us unlicensed cards really don't matter that much. If

1129
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,320
the card and the company in the set are very legitimate,

1130
00:54:26,679 --> 00:54:28,360
it doesn't matter if they're licensed, they're not.

1131
00:54:28,599 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 6: History has told.

1132
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 3: The set right.

1133
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that makes sense. And then I just

1134
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,599
want to coil it. Actually, one more comment here that

1135
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:37,519
I thought was pretty good. Gordon was talking about the

1136
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,199
all of the artistic cards that Panini has come out with.

1137
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:42,599
Speaker 3: Obviously those ones are photoshop.

1138
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: I think maybe the context is maybe a little bit

1139
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,119
different with those cards versus like these, But I do

1140
00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:50,920
see the point. I think that's you know, I kind

1141
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,840
of agree there, And so doctor Beckett, I'll kick it

1142
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,119
to you here at the end of the episode. Any

1143
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,320
final words, any final thoughts, what do you got going on?

1144
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:00,960
Anything you want to you know what.

1145
00:55:01,039 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 5: Rich said, Hey, Casey, I agree with them, and it's

1146
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,960
been a fun hour. Adam, thanks for keeping it moving.

1147
00:55:09,039 --> 00:55:13,159
And again, the problem will be when people get frustrated

1148
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:16,559
and say, hey, it's too complicated.

1149
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 4: Or it's not fun anymore.

1150
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:20,519
Speaker 5: And it's still a lot of fun and hopefully they

1151
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:25,199
won't over complicate it. But it's it's still the greatest hobby.

1152
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:25,519
Speaker 4: In the world.

1153
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So we're I mean, we're gonna wrap wrap

1154
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,000
it up. I think we're right at the top of

1155
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:33,199
the hour here. I want to give a shout out

1156
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:36,519
to Bench Clear Media for hosting our show every Saturday.

1157
00:55:36,519 --> 00:55:39,199
We'll be back here next Saturday. I believe Danny will

1158
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:41,079
be hosting with Brody. I know he was in the

1159
00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:44,280
chat here earlier. I forget who the third host was,

1160
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,960
but I know Danny and Brody will be on the

1161
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,360
show next week. Shout out to everybody in the chat.

1162
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,079
Thank you for you know, leaving some great comments kind

1163
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:52,400
of engaging in the show.

1164
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:53,519
Speaker 3: We really do appreciate that.

1165
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: Make sure to like and subscribe, Tell your friends, tell

1166
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,639
your parents, tell everybody you know about the show. Uh,

1167
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,320
you know, that definitely helps us out here. I want

1168
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,039
to say thank you to everybody watching and listening, and

1169
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:07,119
like I said, next week, we will be back here

1170
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,199
for Hobby Hotline. I almost said, I almost said the

1171
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,559
other podcast that I do, but that's okay. The Hobby Hotline,

1172
00:56:16,559 --> 00:56:19,400
I guess will be episode three eighteen. So everybody, thank

1173
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,519
you very much and we will see you all next

1174
00:56:21,519 --> 00:56:21,760
week