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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Damn Valley coming

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at you with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous.

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Mister Grant Hughes, We're here to talk about Okac versus Minnesota,

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mostly about the Okac Thunder. Are like they just feel

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like that team to me, Like there's like a feeling

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of inevitability right now. But before we dive into the

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Thunder the series, maybe what the Minnesota Timberwolves can do differently, Grant,

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how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Like the Oklahoma City Thunder in the third quarter,

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I am firing on all cylinders? How about that?

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Speaker 1: I like it? Unfortunately for me, much like the Minnesota

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Timberwolves against the Oklahoma City Thunder in the third corner,

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I am committing turnovers on twenty percent of my life's

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possessions at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's tough. How are you.

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Speaker 1: Feeling about We both came out of that Thunder Nugget

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series not con earned about the Thunder, but wondering, oh, like,

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are they a little bit more vulnerable than we thought?

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And now I find myself thinking, I'm curious where you're at.

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That series might have said more about the Nuggets than

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it did about the Thunder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was there. That part of the analysis

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was there a little bit right, Like I remember talking

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to people thinking, you know, the discussion would center on

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like have the Thunder actually already played the toughest series

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they're gonna play in these playoffs? And so I think, like,

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I'm not gonna skip past you just taking that sip

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of coffee and grimacing like somebody punched you in here.

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I'm not gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: We need a quick tangent now, because this is why

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the podcast might end. Is Grant and I are currently

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at war. I have tried coffee now exactly twice in

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my adult life. I accidentally sipped it when I was

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like ten or eleven years old once and I said

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I was gonna try coffee. So I tried a Starbucks

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Nitro brew and it just tasted like some artisanal like

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thick beer. I didn't like it. I don't like beer

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spoiler alert. So then Grant tells me, no, you just

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have to try like an iced coffee, just a plain

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black iced coffee. So I did you know? It was disgusting,

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and so I decided, hey, I'm gonna put some almond

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milk like the vanilla thirty calorie whateverthing in it, so

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lo and behold. I put it in and guess what, everybody,

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it still sucks. I can't believe people pay for this

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on purpose, but I'm determined to finish it because these

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motherfuck these about the curse for no reason. These mfors

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cost like ten bucks. Starbucks is a ripoff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I feel like what you're describing

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is sort of like a normal reaction because you know,

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we've talked about this off air, Like I feel like

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nobody I don't. I have yet to meet the person

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who the first time they have like a sip of

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coffee is like that's terrific. I would like more of

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that right now, please, and I'll have it every day.

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It's just it's there's an addictive chemical in it, and

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you begin to just tolerate the taste and then like it,

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like quote unquote like it because you're addicted to caffeine.

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Like that's I really think, like what if coffee, if

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coffee tasted like cherry kool aid or something like something

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that like everybody can get behind, it'd be like, yeah,

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I get it, but it doesn't at all. It's it's

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a weird thing. It's bitter, which I but I like

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it now because it's been however, many years of coffee

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wakes me up in the morning. So yeah, you're what's

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you're You're in a normal You're you're in a normal place,

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like and you can get to the abnormal place if

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you just don't drink caffeine from other sources and only

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ever get it from coffee. Do that for like a month,

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and you'll you will no longer think it's horrible.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna finish this one because I dumped the nitro brew,

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which was also like twelve dollars or whatever it was.

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And two, I want you to be reminded of the

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mistake that you made me make every time I sip

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it and WinCE.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be hard to just I couldn't do the

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first one. I'll try really hard to power past the

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subsequent wincing.

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Speaker 1: So when you're making like really profound points, well good looking.

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So back to actual basketball, Oh yeah, I remember.

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Speaker 2: No, there was there was a sense that maybe the

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thunder weren't gonna face a better team than Denver, and

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that I think at this on this by the same token,

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like that maybe Minnesota wasn't like the Warriors were just

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all beat up, and like maybe that series didn't really

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tell you anything. You just never know, right, Like you

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can assume you can draw as many conclusions as sort

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of possible from one series, but you just don't know

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like the objective quality of a team until the next one.

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Like you you'll have theories. And I think it's based

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on these first two games, Like certainly it appears that

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the Thunder's problems have been like they don't seem to

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matter because like they aren't shooting well from three, they

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are still like you know that some of them are

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still there and it just doesn't matter because they're so

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great at the things they're great at, and Minnesota maybe

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hadn't been tested like quite, you know what I mean,

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Like I think that's where we are now. Maybe that

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swing if the if the Wolves make their threes or

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something in game three, like that would be a start.

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Speaker 1: Twenty nine point eight percent on wide open threes can't

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buy a bucket from the corners, and so if those

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shots fall. Maybe you're talking about different games, but I

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think I look at the Thunder and the quote unquote

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concerns that not so much us, but other people had

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that might just be a feature rather than a bug.

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Is like this is yeah, okay, the Nuggets are a

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really good team, Like they don't need to make threes

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to win, Like they're built in the image of this

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defensive behemoth. And I continue to marvel at the pressure

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they're able to give if you go look at like

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the space Anthony Edwards had to operate through the first

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two series of the playoffs, or certainly against the Lakers,

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versus what he's dealing with now, where it's there's basically

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like two bodies. It feels like always there, but the

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entire defense of shades towards him and they're not giving

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up anything else. The thunder are maniacal and they're great

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and they're just you know the thing I keep getting

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caught up on right now too, And it's like been

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that way since basically last year. And he was a rookie.

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Casey Wallace is just like the seventh man as a

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sophomore on what is what is the title favorite right now?

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And so my question to you is how many MVP

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awards do we pencil in Nikola topic for?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: If this is what Wallace can do, no, I mean,

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the Wolves don't like it doesn't feel like the Wolves

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are playing that badly. Like Edwards in Game two didn't

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turn the ball over and like he I think he

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looked real. He made reads and passes to got to

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to the only open shooter, Like the Thunder are so

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good defensively and so thorough that like there might be

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one place to get rid of the ball when you

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attack with it. And he found that guy a lot,

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and the shots didn't fall and he didn't turn it over,

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and I thought, like I just I don't know, I think.

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Speaker 1: It's basket to right. He got a basketing game too

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as well.

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Speaker 2: And I think as that's part of the reason I

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think we could emerge from this series. It could be

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a sweep and we could say, like man, Edwards was awesome,

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Like he was as good as you could be against

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that defense. And it's just like it's not fair to

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judge any player on what he does against like Jokic

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had some of the worst offensive games of recent memory

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against the Thunder, like more turnovers than assists a couple

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like that kind of thing, Like yeah, stuff that never happens.

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So like I think it's a testament to Edwards that

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he had the game he did, and then I think

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we should just also be prepared to accept that, like

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he could do that again and it won't be enough,

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you know, like he could shoot even better and not

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turn it over and make the right reads and it

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won't mat Like I think we maybe have reached that

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point with a Thunder, to where they just their defense

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is just so good and they have enough of everything

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else to where you just sort of can't beat them,

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especially if you get a decent Jalen Williams offensive game

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and Shay gets you know, eighty five percent of a

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good Shay game, and then it's just like and then

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Cason Wallace does what he does, or Alex Cruzo chips in,

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or Dort makes a rainbow three, and you're like, well, okay,

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so that's an unwinnable game for a normal wall opponent.

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Speaker 1: You know, do you see any area aside from and

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I but this matters too, So I don't even know

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how to spend much so much time in it. But

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nas reed not making a single one of his three pointers.

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A lot of those have been good looks. Some of

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it does boil down to if if the nod and

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I mean Anthony Edwards's jumper hasn't been great in this

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series too. But aside from just make the wide open

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threes that Oklahoma City so far is conceding, is there

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anything they could do? Because the only thing that I

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like maybe sort of notice is it feels like they

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could punish Minnesota specifically. Okay, see if okeyes, he's gonna

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be in drop more, like you need to figure out

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a way to punish that, because right now I don't

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think Anthony Edwards has done that. But I also don't

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know what's the best way. Is it to bring Jayden

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McDaniels in as the screener and then maybe you get

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to go after Shay a little bit And that's in

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so far as one the thunder let that happen too

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that Shay's even a liability, which he's which he's not.

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It's just more about energy expenditure. I just don't have

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a ton of suggestions. Again, aside from that they should

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really just consider hitting their three pointers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that's obviously the starting point, and

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it's like sort of everything else we talk about subsequently

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kind of won't matter if that, if they don't just

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start making threes at like a normal like what you'd

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expect I actually kind of look at the other end

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of the floor for Minnesota defensively, because like, I think

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this will just be mostly a defensive series. Uh, and

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it's you know what, what was one eighteen one oh

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three in game two? One eighteen is like a fair amount,

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I think. I think for the Wolves to have a

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real shot, you need to get that number down and

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like so you can mess. There was a stretch in

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game two where Reid was the center and Minnesota was

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kind of more aggressively trapping and move and like looked,

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you know, nobody's as mobile and athletic as as the

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Thunder looked defensively, but the Wolves looked close to that.

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And I don't have the numbers for that stretch, but

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it's it kind of felt like, oh, this is more

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of like an equal footing kind of scenario when the

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Wolves are a little smaller and a little more act defensively,

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because if you're gonna make the Thunder look bad, I

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think it just has to come when the Thunder are

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on offense, because they like other than make your shots. Like,

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I don't know what your fix is offensively for Minnesota,

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but like maybe you exploit a thunder offense that's not,

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relatively speaking, not a strength. So I would just look

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at what can Minnesota do defensively to sort of keep

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this keep these things a little closer, particularly in the

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third quarters, and maybe that's more read and smaller guys.

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You have to balance that against the fact I had

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to double check this, Dan, because I can't believe this

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was true. The Wolves starting five is a plus sixteen

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point two per hundred for the series and was plus

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fourteen point four in Game two with with the Wolf's

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starters on the floor, So it's like, okay, let's downsize

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and mess around. It's like, no, the only lineup you

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have that works is your starters. So I don't like.

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I just I don't know what Minnesota does. I still

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do tend to think again that your best bet might

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just be to hope you can you can slow the

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Thunder offense down and turn them over maybe a little

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bit like that kind of thing, because I don't know

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how you're gonna score on that defense.

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Speaker 1: I do think, and I mean this could contribute to

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your defense because it puts your defense in compromising positions.

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They've just the Minnesota has gone through these stretches where

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like the turnovers have gotten absurd. And I know it's

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the Thunder's defense and that's what they're designed to do,

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but there's been something like really bad passes in transition,

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like nos Reed trying to throw across like Nosrey shouldn't

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be thrown cross court passes against the Oklahoma City Thunder. Sorry,

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And is Rudy Gobert.

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Speaker 2: Ever gonna cleanly handle a pass again? Like in his life,

240
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just every ball that touches his hands is like something

241
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is it's all the possession is now compromised because he's

242
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not catching it cleanly or he's it's just like, I

243
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mean this that's unknown thing with him, but it's like

244
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you can't afford you can't afford to just not be

245
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able to pass it to somebody against the Thunder.

246
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Speaker 1: And especially with the way that the offense is fairing,

247
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like if you don't have guys missing wide open threes

248
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and you look at how much the Thunder will play

249
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off of Rudy Gobert right now, that's the so you're

250
00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:01,600
you know, we're sitting here saying like, oh, it doesn't

251
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really like some of the nas read like the Nasri

252
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with Alcobert lineups just getting hammered in this series, it's like, well,

253
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so maybe don't go to that as much, but the

254
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alternative is, Okay, you mentioned the starting five data, but

255
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like if you just really leaned into that, how much

256
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:16,240
it will that hold up? Especially when I guess you

257
00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:18,759
could be happy that it held up through Game two

258
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with Julius Randall having the game he did right then

259
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he's not playing in the fourth quarter. I thought that

260
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,279
was a really interesting decision because it's not like this

261
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,120
team is, you know, teaming with other creators and that's

262
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what But before I throw it to you, that's what

263
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this Thunder team does is I feel like it just

264
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it like grinds you to the point of breaking to

265
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where you're just like deviating from what got you here,

266
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what's been working the most over the past few months.

267
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And that's I'm not even blaming necessarily Chris Finch for

268
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,919
that specifically. Again, a lot of this comes back to

269
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wide open shots being missed. I'm all for trying stuff,

270
00:12:52,799 --> 00:12:55,639
but it's just this team can it. Honestly, as of

271
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right now, I still have respect for the Timberolves. I'm

272
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trying to say that I just have so much more

273
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respect for the Nuggets watching how the Wolves have gone

274
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about this series.

275
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Speaker 2: I think that's the right takeaway. And I'm just like

276
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I'm like personally annoyed by what Julius Randall is doing

277
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,399
now because I just had to go through the whole

278
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,159
like I was wrong. He was great against Golden State,

279
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,360
Like this version of Randall is just so critical to

280
00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:20,399
the Wolf and now it's like now I and now

281
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,240
I can't go all the way back and be like

282
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I knew it because it's the Thunder defense and it's

283
00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:27,879
just not fair to judge anybody against that, Like everyone's

284
00:13:27,919 --> 00:13:30,960
their worst self against except for Edwards, I guess against

285
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that defense. So I don't know. I was having like

286
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,120
some real ech, like how do I need to like

287
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,919
fundamentally change how I evaluate players, because like thinking of

288
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,480
Randall specifically, because like maybe the right way this is

289
00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:48,000
before last night. Maybe the right way is to look at,

290
00:13:48,039 --> 00:13:50,519
like what can Julius Randall be at his best? And

291
00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:53,200
should I just view him through the prism of like

292
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:55,759
I know he can do that, and that is like

293
00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:57,759
what he did against Golden State and what he's done

294
00:13:57,799 --> 00:14:01,120
earlier in the playoffs, So like let's let's positively frame

295
00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:04,519
it like Randall has this in him so therefore, you know,

296
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:09,039
we should just just not assume but acknowledge that, like, yeah,

297
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,279
he might actually help really win you a series. But

298
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,440
then it's like I just view the negative. I think

299
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,639
of like, well, here's what I know he doesn't do well,

300
00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:18,840
and now we're back to that. So I just like,

301
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,679
I've been spun in like ten circles by Julius Randall

302
00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:23,240
in the last two weeks, and I don't. I don't

303
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:23,639
like it.

304
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,039
Speaker 1: That sounds like par for the course though, So it

305
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,240
kind of is. If it was another team other than

306
00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:32,000
the Thunder, like you said, maybe it would be time

307
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,720
to readjust your already adjusted priors. But I think I'm

308
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,480
so interested to see what they do in game three

309
00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:39,440
and maybe how he factors into that because I don't

310
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,639
know what the card is to pull. As I sit

311
00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:43,919
here and say, what if the Timberwolves make more of

312
00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:47,519
their wide open threes, the Thunder could also do that.

313
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:51,759
That's possibility for them to shoot better and they've had

314
00:14:51,799 --> 00:14:55,240
like I don't. It just feels like Shaye's been, by

315
00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:57,320
and large is excellent in this and it feels like

316
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,960
we haven't necessarily even seen the peak of the Thunder offense.

317
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,840
It's really like we probably saw it at points for

318
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,600
a game too, and that's sort of that's gotta be

319
00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:07,000
terrifying if you're kind of looking at the rest of

320
00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:10,360
the league and it's just looking at New York and Indiana.

321
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,639
I'm not trying to put this series over, but I

322
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,840
just look at the Thunder right now, and both of

323
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,279
you and I've kind of flirted with this take in

324
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,559
the past. I just I don't know who that's left

325
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,080
that you're supposed to pick to beat them four times

326
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,759
in seven tries, which lends itself merit to what you

327
00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:30,320
said about it, and a lot of people said it too.

328
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,000
It feels like the NBA Finals might have taken place

329
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720
in the Western Conference semis and I don't again, I

330
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:37,960
don't want to just write this. It's two to oh.

331
00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:40,639
It's not like it's three to oh. But the Thunder

332
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:43,360
you almost have to wonder that you said it too

333
00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:45,600
after that, where it was just that was the stress

334
00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:48,080
test for Oklahoma City against Denver, and now it's well,

335
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,679
they're not gonna you know, the Minnesota Timberwolves are hanging around,

336
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,919
and it's felt like the same script for a lot

337
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,159
of these games, where it's, oh, they're hanging around, but

338
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,159
then things start to go off the rails a little

339
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,720
bit leading into halftime, and then they completely go off

340
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,679
the right following halftime.

341
00:16:02,159 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know what that is. It's like

342
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,559
because there's an element of that with the Pacers too.

343
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,320
It just happens later in the game where it's like

344
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,519
it just somehow the title wave like starts rolling and

345
00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:16,639
it's just like, well, that's it. You know, the momentum

346
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,200
is irreversible now and there's just nothing to be done.

347
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,480
I definitely have I have a distinct memory from Game

348
00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:24,879
two of it was a third quarter and I think

349
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,720
the thunder had started the push and it was like

350
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:30,080
the Wolves were down like eight something. I think it

351
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,360
was eight, and in successive possessions Nas Reid and I

352
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:37,720
think it was McDaniel's got wide open corner threes and

353
00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:39,840
because the Wolves did generate like a handful of those,

354
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,080
and I as the shot goes, do you ever have

355
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:45,559
this feeling of like you're talking to the TV and

356
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,879
you're like, oh, that's gotta go, you know, like, oh

357
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:51,039
my god, the Wolves, this hats perfectly generated wide open

358
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,120
corner three at a time when you could cut it

359
00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:55,879
from eight to five and that just that number feels

360
00:16:55,879 --> 00:16:57,639
better because if you don't, it's going to be ten

361
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,919
or whatever. And read missed it, and the next time

362
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,160
down McDaniels had the same shot. He missed it, same corner,

363
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,160
and it's just like those are those are like there

364
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,480
are must makes and there are like must makes, and

365
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,880
the Wolves the Wolves made zero of the like emphasis

366
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,599
must makes, and they and had chances. I really, we've

367
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,279
both said it several times already, but like there is

368
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,599
a world where the Wolves definitely win game one if

369
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,640
they make threes, and there's also a world in game

370
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,720
two where like this does not get out of hand

371
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,680
because Minnesota just makes one or two of their must

372
00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:36,359
make threes that they just didn't And so the problem

373
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,599
is like, well it'll normalize over It's like, well, you

374
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,640
gotta win four out of five games now, so you

375
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,880
don't really have time to rely on the process that's

376
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,319
generating good shots if you can't make them, And that

377
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,759
makes analysis hard because like the Wolves could just continue

378
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,119
to have the right process and just not get results

379
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,319
from it. So yeah, I don't know, it feels would you.

380
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,880
I Mean, we both had the thunder in this series,

381
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,720
and we both gave the Wolves like a fair amount

382
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,000
of credit and had it going pretty long. But like

383
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,920
I mean this, if you had to reevaluate it, it

384
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,480
does just feel like we should have maybe thought about

385
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,079
this being a shorter series. It just we were we

386
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,599
believe the thunder World the little worse than they were,

387
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,440
and we believe the Wolves were a little better than

388
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:17,720
they are.

389
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 1: I even said when we were making our picks that

390
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,599
I want to kind of go with thunder and five. Yeah,

391
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,720
coming out of the Nuggets series. Then also we have indicators,

392
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,000
statistical indicators that show the Timberwolves are just so good

393
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,279
against top ten teams relatively the rest of the league,

394
00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:35,400
And so I just thought this would be a close series.

395
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,160
And look, it still technically could be. But to your

396
00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:41,920
previous point about those must makes, the thunder of officially

397
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,799
reached the stage of their existence where it's if they

398
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:47,319
have like a five or six point lead, I might

399
00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:49,319
have just like, all the game's over, Yeah, are you

400
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,319
supposed to how are you supposed to outscore this team by?

401
00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:54,599
When's the last time that you felt that way about

402
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:56,839
about a team at this level where it's okay, yeah,

403
00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:00,000
if it's the Hornet's going up against the Celtics. Sure, yeah, yeah,

404
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,559
I get it, but two teams at a high level,

405
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:05,480
one of them's up by five or six, and I'm

406
00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:07,759
just like, what's the point of even watching anymore? Like

407
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:09,519
there's no way that Timers are gonna win this.

408
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,400
Speaker 2: I can't believe it took me this long to get

409
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,480
to this thought that I had. I just I can't

410
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,759
forgot it until just now watching the Thunder just like

411
00:19:19,279 --> 00:19:21,640
put the stranglehold on in the third quarter of Game two,

412
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:26,240
and which is similar script to Game one, right around

413
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:28,319
that like five to six point deficit, as they're like,

414
00:19:28,519 --> 00:19:31,160
you can just feel that it's oh, it's shit, it's

415
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,920
now it's nine. Oh, it's just growing. And like the

416
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,680
last time I felt that way about a team was

417
00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:42,720
it would have been the I guess it happened several

418
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,839
years in a row, but like the seventy three win

419
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,440
Warriors and then the first couple of KD years where

420
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,079
it was just like, I mean all the KD years

421
00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:53,720
were that way. But like not to say the Thunder

422
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:55,799
were like fucking around with the game or anything, because

423
00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:58,000
they were playing really hard, but like the game reaches

424
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:02,640
a point where the team a which is the Thunder

425
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:06,400
or the Early Dynasty Warriors just like have a level

426
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,720
they can get to that you just can't. It's like

427
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:10,720
it's not a question of will they hit it, it's

428
00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:13,160
like when do they choose to hit this level and

429
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,720
the game ends because you can't get to that level.

430
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,440
And it's just like it's an it's an abundance of talent.

431
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:21,759
It's like overwhelming physicality and athleticism and speed and just

432
00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:25,920
like there's just just just like something that happens when

433
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,640
a team is that good where it's what you're talking about,

434
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,599
like fairly small deficits feel insurmountable and then they just

435
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,160
expand the deficit to where it's like we can quit

436
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,599
now right because there's no chance here. It's it's like

437
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,039
a I don't know what, there's no quantifiable thing. It's

438
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,920
just like you can just tell when the team when

439
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,079
a team has like a special gear, and it does

440
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,559
feel like the Thunder have that.

441
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,559
Speaker 1: They were there was I can't remember which like Primer

442
00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:52,519
Pod I was listening to for the series, and they

443
00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:56,000
kind of use that trope of styles make fights and

444
00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:59,119
minors thought was after watching game two. It was really

445
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,799
after Game one was the Thunder makes styles like they

446
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,519
force you to play a certain way, and if they

447
00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:07,599
want to show it's like, oh, get Kendrick Williams will

448
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:13,759
play this series, that'll happen. Their depth and versatility is outrageous.

449
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,359
It's it's incredible. And just to put some extra context

450
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,279
on how poorly the Wolves are shooting, they're at forty six.

451
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:23,519
They have a forty six point three effective field goal

452
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,000
rate on wide open jumpers, so the defender six or

453
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:28,480
more feet away. And just in case anyone's not familiar,

454
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,559
effective field goal percentage measures two to three point efficiency.

455
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,079
The Orlando Magic Grant, who you know, is one of

456
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,680
the worst shooting teams in recent history. We're at fifty

457
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,359
two point seven effective field goal percentage on wide open

458
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,759
jumpers during the regular season. So there's room for the

459
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:47,599
Timberwolves to come up. But I know, as a lot

460
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,960
of you know, the mathematicians like to point out, is

461
00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:54,079
we're dealing with small samples, so we don't get to

462
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,720
just inherently say what bore out over these super large

463
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,119
samples that you're gonna have enough time to progress to

464
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,640
that mean there's hope for sure, Like could the Wolves

465
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,599
play better on offense one thousand percent yet or hit

466
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,559
more of their shots one thousand percent. But I come

467
00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:13,440
away looking at this and saying their margin for error

468
00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,160
was so slim to begin with, and now where do

469
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,480
you kind of go? And the thunder have boxed them

470
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,960
into that situation. And by the way, like if the

471
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,200
wolves start hitting their wide open threes, the guys that

472
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,440
you know, the thunder conceding them to the thunder will

473
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,480
just adjust because already a wide open three against the

474
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,039
Thunder is kind of like it has to be an

475
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:36,759
anxiety written experience because you're watching these bodies like fly away,

476
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,240
like their ability to shoot those gaps is insane.

477
00:22:40,079 --> 00:22:42,599
Speaker 2: And I had that exact same thought as you're talking of.

478
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,880
Like again, not quantifiable, I don't think, but like because

479
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,799
you know, as the wolves, like if you get an ope,

480
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:54,160
if you get a good look, I think there's an

481
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,200
added element of pressure because you know, like, first of all,

482
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,720
this is the only one we're getting on this possession guaranteed,

483
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:02,960
like I can't pass this up, and two like these

484
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,039
are so few and far between, like we I just

485
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,599
so like the must makes that I was talking about,

486
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,759
it's like they feel more pressurized because you really must

487
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:13,839
make it. And like because the Thunder just are not

488
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,000
going to give you other opportunities, and it feels like

489
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,480
such a squad and if you miss one of those,

490
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:20,680
like how deflating is that? Because you might, like when

491
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,799
Reid misses that open corner three in the third quarter,

492
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:25,920
I was talking about like some I'm sure in the

493
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,200
moment you're not thinking this, but I'm thinking, like, man,

494
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,160
that might they might not get another one of those

495
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,920
like that that you're just like, that was the only

496
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,200
easy opportunity you're gonna have. Now they had one on

497
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,000
the next possession, it turned out. But there's something like

498
00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:40,279
there's something about the way the Thunder defend that make

499
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,880
like somehow they play defense on shots they're not actually

500
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,000
defending because of just the way that they play and

501
00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:49,319
the way that it adds like extra stakes to every

502
00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:51,599
shot the opponent gets. It just makes it harder. I

503
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,400
don't know, it's it's a wild thing to watch.

504
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,759
Speaker 1: Is there also anything to just this idea? Where so

505
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:00,799
when you look at the primary defense on Shae, who

506
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,759
again he hasn't been his most efficient self. He's gotten

507
00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:05,000
to the line. We don't need to litigate the free

508
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:07,799
throw stuff. I mean, just the Wolves are actually getting

509
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,240
fouled on a higher percentage of their drives than the Thunder.

510
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,359
But the Thunder also just have the beat when it

511
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,240
comes to getting points in the pain. I think that's

512
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:16,759
going to inherently result in more fouls and also the

513
00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:20,799
free throw disparities basically non existent for this series. But

514
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,799
so Jade McDaniels and Nikil Alexander Walker and even Anthony

515
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,359
Edwards if you loop his data in there, the Wolves

516
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,960
are allowing the Thunder to score as a team under

517
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,440
one point per possession when any of those guys are

518
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,920
defending Shay to then still be down two to zero

519
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,839
really sucks.

520
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: What do you do? Like, that's a good again, good process,

521
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:45,799
like you've got if you get the right guys on him,

522
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:48,240
that's if things go well. I just don't so what

523
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,880
so what's the move you just have to? Like not

524
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,200
you have can't concede switches ever, you can't let Shae

525
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,400
get the guy he wants, Like do you just not

526
00:24:57,599 --> 00:25:00,400
play I don't know, de Vincenzo or some like what

527
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,519
do you what's the movie?

528
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: Like how to be honest? I don't know if you

529
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,559
could play Devincenzo if he's not going to be hitting

530
00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:09,799
his threes, and that's just like a feeling I've had

531
00:25:09,839 --> 00:25:11,799
a couple of times, like during the regular season when

532
00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:14,559
he was going through that that low for him. That

533
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,599
might be something you have to look at because it's

534
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,279
not like Julius Randall, where I think one they can

535
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,480
maybe do like I thought the Wolves did a better

536
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:23,599
job of getting Anthe Edwards deeper into the paint in

537
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,759
Game two, and like we even saw some post touches

538
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:28,880
for him Julius Randall, just the idea of him, like

539
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,799
that's important, like putting pressure on the Thunder defense in

540
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,519
that way, even if he's not necessarily making shots. And

541
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:36,559
I know that was an ugly game from Julius Randall.

542
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:40,599
Dante Devincenzo doesn't kind of like it's almost Mike Conley territory,

543
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,079
except like Devincenzo doesn't even have Mike Conley's I would

544
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,279
say IQ or feel, so that makes it tougher. I like,

545
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:50,720
I just don't have it. I mean I do think

546
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,480
what maybe we're I don't even if we're underestimating, because

547
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,200
we talked about a million times, but the Thunder is

548
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,559
scoring one point seventy five points per possession after a

549
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:01,279
Timberwolves miss and so this might just come down to

550
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,359
make more jumpers and these games will be closer towards

551
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,680
the end, and that will at least give you like

552
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,160
that if you're the Wolves, I think that's how you

553
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,519
look at this, right, Whereas if we had fewer misses,

554
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:12,839
maybe some of those like really bad like the Thunder

555
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,279
are going to force turnovers. And like we've seen teams

556
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,799
commit way more turnovers against the Thunder than we've seen

557
00:26:17,839 --> 00:26:20,279
from the Wolves here. So yeah, you're losing that battle.

558
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,279
But I think if you can make more of jumpers

559
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:26,079
that in theory you should be hitting, you at least

560
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,960
can say we'll be in a position to win game three.

561
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,480
And of course you could cling to all right, now

562
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,640
get now we get to go.

563
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: Home, right, Yeah, well you have to, And like I

564
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,640
I think there's a decent chance that the Wolves do

565
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:42,680
just ye if there's another third quarter, like just this

566
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,720
game is over stretched from the Thunder, then in game three,

567
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:49,160
then I think we're set, Like we don't really you know,

568
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,920
game it's just a question of like when is this

569
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,119
going to be a sweep or is it going to

570
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,559
be five? I do don't you think there's a good

571
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,279
chance that Minnesota does just like capitalize on the looks

572
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,359
that Edward's and it's just Game three is a little

573
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,359
certainly the Wolves will not be able to come out

574
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,720
with anything less than like one hundred and fifty percent

575
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,160
like desperation and intensity like that. I don't know that

576
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,960
I think that matters, like I would expect Game three

577
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,559
to be close. It's just I don't know. I just

578
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,119
don't know how you can be like, I'll be curious.

579
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,599
I don't know what the line is, like Minnesota can't

580
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,720
be favored in a game I don't I don't think.

581
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:31,640
I mean that would be crazy, I.

582
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: I get, I mean, they will be playing home. So

583
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:34,599
let's let's check this line and see, yeah, no, they're well,

584
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,119
they're only two point five point underdogs right now. But

585
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,880
this is normally the game And maybe we've kind of

586
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,160
moved on from that though, But wouldn't this normally be

587
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,480
the game in three where it's, oh, you favor just

588
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:47,519
a home team, but if they're not favored, it like

589
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:50,200
that's kind of a reflection of what the public views

590
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,599
of the gap between Minnesota and Okay see right now,

591
00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:57,000
and if look, if you think that Oklahoma City is

592
00:27:57,279 --> 00:27:59,960
hen shoulders better than Minnesota. I don't really think that

593
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,559
it's an insult to Minnesota so much as it's where

594
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,720
people and I mentioned this, you've mentioned it, were we

595
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,200
just overthinking the Thunder when it came to kind of

596
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,240
just debating like title chance. And yes, the Nuggets proved

597
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:13,519
that they could beat that the Thunder could be fallible,

598
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:17,160
but the like they found a way to win anyway.

599
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,839
And they even in that series, there was a there

600
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,640
was a few games, definitely long stretches where it was, Oh,

601
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,200
it felt like Game seven a perfect example, like they

602
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,640
felt like they decided just flipped that switch and run

603
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,000
away with it. And again, I haven't felt like I

604
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,400
didn't feel like that with the Celtics of last year,

605
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,680
even if they were kind of inevitable looking at the landscape.

606
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:37,839
Didn't feel like that with the twenty twenty three Nuggets.

607
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,160
It's what you said, I haven't felt this way about

608
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,680
a team since the Kevin Durant ever Warriors. Yeah, that's

609
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,960
that's insane to just reuse a word that I've used

610
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:48,599
like eight times.

611
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: I mean, they won sixty eight games, right like that.

612
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:54,839
That is that's that's up there. That's pretty high. That's

613
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:58,480
more than at least one of those KD teams, So yeah,

614
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:03,960
I agree. I do think I think maybe the ultimate

615
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,519
takeaway is, like, Yokich, is that incredible? Because like we

616
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:09,640
talked about how the Nuggets were, like you know what,

617
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:12,640
sixty percent of their starting five was hurt. Like it's

618
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,920
just like and they and they still made a series

619
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,759
of that, Like it really made a series of it.

620
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,119
That that that to me is like really the bigger takeaway?

621
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else on the Thunder the Timberwolves.

622
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,799
I'm rooting for a close game three, but I think

623
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,400
what I've learned more than anything about in so far

624
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,960
as we had anything really to learn, I just have

625
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:33,839
all the respect in the world with the Thunder built

626
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,000
and I don't know that they feel inevitable right now.

627
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:39,000
Maybe that changes. This could be prisoner of the moment

628
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:41,640
type stuff, but it does I don't think it's gonna

629
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,039
be that way.

630
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. I The only reason I'm not

631
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,880
jumping like both feet into the Thunder are inevitable is because,

632
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,599
like the playoff lesson every year is don't overreact to

633
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,160
one game. But we're overreacting.

634
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,799
Speaker 1: It's just too so it's fine, too. Yeah, twice as

635
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,960
much information you ready to take us out of here

636
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:01,640
that yep.

637
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,839
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. I will say I

638
00:30:04,839 --> 00:30:07,839
hope you're all enjoying the OKAYC Minnesota series. It's still

639
00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:09,920
a lot of fun, if only because you get to

640
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,000
see a team play at a level you don't see

641
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:13,880
very often. Remember to ring.

642
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: Stressful than Knicks pacers a little bit.

643
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean personal allegiances aside as a little although

644
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:23,319
fairly we'll get to that at some point. Bring review, subscribe,

645
00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:27,240
join our discord links for that YouTube podcast description. Leave

646
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:29,240
us a note here, leave us a thumbs up, Leave

647
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:32,319
us a comment on what you think our over reactions are,

648
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:35,519
your overreactions to our overreactions. All that good stuff. It's

649
00:30:35,559 --> 00:30:36,759
gonna do it, shouts Frank Mila King.

650
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:37,839
Speaker 1: Apologies to carry out