1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number three hundred and forty nine, published on 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,000 September nineteen, twenty twelve. 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,279 Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,919 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:21,920 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 6 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:26,839 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,519 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: The faster the green, the less slope you can have 9 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:36,719 before that point is reached. The slower the green, or 10 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:38,920 you got a tilted then you reach the point with 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:39,759 a greater tilt. 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 4: But it's always the. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,719 Speaker 3: Combination of the grit speed and the slope steepness. And 14 00:00:43,759 --> 00:00:47,000 so if you say everybody mows their grants today to about. 15 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 4: Stemp nine, that limit is reached. 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 3: Around a six percent slope. And the all golf course architects. 17 00:00:54,759 --> 00:00:55,439 Speaker 4: Know this one too. 18 00:00:55,679 --> 00:00:58,679 Speaker 3: If they make seven percent slow, the golf course is 19 00:00:58,719 --> 00:00:59,880 going to stamp. 20 00:00:59,679 --> 00:01:01,479 Speaker 4: Tea and you're not going to have holes there. 21 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,519 Speaker 3: He's just luxuriating and spending somebody else's money by design 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,359 that sort of green. Because the person that owns the 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,280 golf course is not really going to be able to 24 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:13,920 use seven percent slope unless they get really slow grass, 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,480 and that members don't like. 26 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 4: Slow grass, so they're always step nize or whatever. 27 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,879 Speaker 3: If you inform yourself about golf course architecture, you will 28 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,000 know that the range of steepness of slope kind of 29 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,000 maxes out around six percent. 30 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,159 Speaker 1: Learning to read the practice greens gives you a huge 31 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,120 advantage With Jeff Mangam. 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,079 Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,599 and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,359 for your host, Fred Green. 35 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,439 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Jeff, Hey Fred, 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,400 how are you, Budy? 37 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 4: I'm doing good. 38 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,439 Speaker 3: I'm in western North Carolina outside of Klowe. 39 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: The where in Western Carolina? And what's an. 40 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:11,479 Speaker 3: Ncwe It's it's near the Cherokee Indian Reservation on the 41 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,280 west side of Asheville. 42 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:14,879 Speaker 4: Noway to Tennessee. 43 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: And did you stop and teach there today or where 44 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:18,599 did you teach? 45 00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: Well? 46 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,439 Speaker 5: I taught in Winston's that set the country Club, and 47 00:02:22,479 --> 00:02:25,319 now I'm headed to Atlanta to teach some friends. Down 48 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,960 in outside Atlanta in a place called Canton, there's a 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,439 golf course down there called Bridge Mill that's run by 50 00:02:31,759 --> 00:02:34,319 Tom Lessinger and George Killenhaufer. 51 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:35,879 Speaker 4: My good buddy's down there. 52 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:40,479 Speaker 3: George Killenhoffer is a long term legend in golf teaching. 53 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 4: He taught a lot of the people. 54 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:43,439 Speaker 1: Oh, can we get him on the show? 55 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, he left you. 56 00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 6: He's the inventor. He invents suff about two or three 57 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:50,199 times a week. 58 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:54,199 Speaker 1: Wow. All right, So you are obviously not in a 59 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,840 hotel with a direct connection here, because it's kind of 60 00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:59,879 breaking up. Where are you sitting right now? 61 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:07,319 Speaker 6: Oh, I'm right outside of McDonald's. That caesar salad. 62 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: In the coffee, and it's beautiful weather. 63 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:15,879 Speaker 3: It's a Bomby sun SETI nice clouds. But I didn't 64 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,120 I couldn't get my Motel six to set up for 65 00:03:18,199 --> 00:03:21,080 you today because I'm still traveling after after we do this, 66 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:21,520 we'll talk. 67 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 4: I gotta keep rolling. 68 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,159 Speaker 1: Okay, So your signal just got a little better, and 69 00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:27,439 we'll keep our fingers crossed, and if this signal gets bad, 70 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,479 we'll we'll stop recording and pick it right up and 71 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,280 no one will ever know the difference. But let's I 72 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:37,919 reached out to you a because you are so much 73 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,680 fun to have on this show. Because in your eye 74 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,400 because you poke sticks in my eye. 75 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:44,599 Speaker 4: Man. 76 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: The level of detail that you go into is just 77 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,039 a golf junkies dream, all right, you. I mean, I've 78 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,879 never heard a short answer, and that's why I want 79 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:59,000 to have you back, because the level of detail is 80 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,240 un unrivaled, unrivaled on what you do. 81 00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:10,039 Speaker 4: We'll call it baroque. Why lots of ornamentation? 82 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we'll call it baroque. That's not the 83 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:16,199 name of the show. We're not going we're going for 84 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,759 baroque today. 85 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: We're going. 86 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that was really bad. But and if nobody 87 00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:29,000 has ever heard you on Golf Smarter before, why, I mean, 88 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:31,920 Jeff's been on a lot. He was also a regular 89 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:35,240 contributor to Golf Smarter Tips. And there's still all there, 90 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:38,879 a year's worth of amazing content. And it's putting, putting, 91 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,879 and more putting. I don't know if there's anybody in 92 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,759 the world, Jeff, who has the encyclopedic baroque knowledge of 93 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:52,279 putting that you have on putting or on Native Americans. 94 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,759 Speaker 4: That's because I'm mainly disturbed. 95 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: And that's why we get along so well. 96 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 4: Obsessive, compulsive to the square. 97 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: And exponentially multiplied against itself several more times. 98 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: Yep, that's why we're such good friends. So the latest 99 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,759 piece that I got from you fascinating and I think 100 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,720 it just hits right into the heart of it on 101 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:27,879 reading the pot on the practice green, right right, So 102 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,040 do I need to have you order another cup of 103 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,519 coffee or and and just let you go, or do 104 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,800 you want me to ask you a specific question about 105 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:41,120 where we should get started when we're on the practice 106 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,600 putting green and how to read and well, okay, my 107 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:46,639 first question is when we're on the practice putting green, 108 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:53,319 before we start around, how much should we say to ourselves? Okay, 109 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:55,879 this is how these greens on this golf course work. 110 00:05:57,879 --> 00:06:02,439 Speaker 3: Pretty much today's green's agronomy and managed practices. There's not 111 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,399 that big of a difference between the practice green and 112 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:08,439 the golf course. They're mode the same, they're built the same, 113 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,199 there's subject to the same chemical treatments, the same irrigations. 114 00:06:13,439 --> 00:06:16,839 They're in the same weather climate, sunshine and everything. It's 115 00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:20,319 all the same Satame grass, highly engineered grass. 116 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: So hopefully that's gonna give you a good sense of 117 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,959 touch and pace when you're practicing, too that you can 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,160 confidently take it out onto your round with you. 119 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 7: Well, you're just yeah, pretty much. 120 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:34,519 Speaker 4: Don't worry about it. 121 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,519 Speaker 3: People are overly concerned about the difference between the practice 122 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,120 green to hear little stuff in golf culture, and it. 123 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,319 Speaker 4: Worries them for thirty forty years. 124 00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 3: They need to use their own eyeballs and look at things. 125 00:06:45,879 --> 00:06:48,160 There's no big difference between practice greens and the greens on. 126 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:48,759 Speaker 8: The golf course. 127 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,439 Speaker 4: Hadn't been for twenty years. 128 00:06:52,079 --> 00:06:55,639 Speaker 1: And so it's gonna break, it's gonna roll, it's gonna speeds. 129 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,000 We're just fine. And so that means that once we 130 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,759 leave the the practice green and get ready for our round, 131 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,680 we should have confidence on on our touch and our 132 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,399 pace when we go out and play, as you know, 133 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,079 from what we just experienced on the practice green. 134 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:12,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what you're doing. 135 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,759 Speaker 3: You're brushing up on your touch, you're brushing up on 136 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,839 your mechanics a little bit for a straight stroke, and 137 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:19,959 then maybe you mess around with getting a little confidence 138 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:20,480 or something. 139 00:07:20,639 --> 00:07:20,879 Speaker 4: You know. 140 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:27,759 Speaker 1: Obviously you've moved out of the front porch of McDonald's, yeah, 141 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,759 and you're something's moving in there, something's playing with your 142 00:07:30,759 --> 00:07:33,600 wires or your headphone. But something's scraping around. 143 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,399 Speaker 4: So I'll try not to touch it. 144 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: Okay, don't touch it. Okay, just put your get your 145 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,000 hands off of that. 146 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 4: Okay, I actually have my car on powered up. Do 147 00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:46,720 you want me to turn my car off? 148 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:47,079 Speaker 9: No? 149 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: Why is your car making No? You got to probably 150 00:07:49,079 --> 00:07:50,560 have the air conditioning on if you're sitting in North 151 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,480 Carolina and your car with the windows up. 152 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 3: Well, I've got some piece and quiet in my little 153 00:07:57,279 --> 00:07:59,519 Rudyard Kipling house on my back. 154 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:10,319 Speaker 7: Sort of a deal here, all right. 155 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: So let's talk about being on that practice green and 156 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,040 what we can learn from it. 157 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: Sure, let's talk about reading putts. 158 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,199 Speaker 3: Yes, I created a thing recently about how you do 159 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,319 two putts on a practice green that will allow you 160 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:35,279 to get a real good sense of what breaks you. 161 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:38,159 Speaker 4: Will be facing for the rest of the day. Okay, 162 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,080 let me say that one more time. Two little putts. 163 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: You know, five feet ten feet? Or does it ten? 164 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:46,919 Speaker 4: I like ten feet. 165 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: The math works out better from ten feet, which I'll 166 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:50,879 explain to you in a second. 167 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,039 Speaker 4: But ten divide my ten is easy. Just move the decimal. Okay, 168 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,080 to the left. 169 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,519 Speaker 1: Now there's something beeping that's try I'm so distracted by 170 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:04,639 these little extra noises. I apologize. I'm just a reporting guy. 171 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 4: I stopped it. 172 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: What were you doing? 173 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,039 Speaker 3: That was the That was my little in car power 174 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,480 unit where I take the plug into the battery the 175 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,399 cigarette lighter and then convert. 176 00:09:17,039 --> 00:09:20,279 Speaker 1: It into a beeping noise. All right, So I. 177 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 3: Don't know why, baby, it's part of the river lit's 178 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,080 find it made it. 179 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:26,279 Speaker 1: Be ten foot putts move the decimal point. 180 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 4: Go okay, here you teach me. All right, here's the deal. 181 00:09:30,639 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 3: Most of the putts that you can actually sink are 182 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:37,080 within fifteen feet, and for most people they're within ten. 183 00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:41,240 Everything else is basically a lag putt's going to be 184 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:41,879 a two putt. 185 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:44,159 Speaker 4: Do you have the skill for lag? Yes? Okay, now 186 00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:45,120 we're moved beyond that. 187 00:09:45,759 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: We want to make a lot of one putts out 188 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:54,240 of fifteen footers. Yes, and now really for amateur golfers, 189 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,440 you're really talking about ten feeting in then I didn't 190 00:09:56,639 --> 00:09:58,919 good from fifteen feet right now. 191 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 4: The second one thing you want to know is that. 192 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,399 Speaker 7: Greens have. 193 00:10:06,879 --> 00:10:16,639 Speaker 3: A certain topography where for reasonable areas of size and 194 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,320 diameter around the hole, the same flatness or plane or 195 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,440 shape of the surface persists. Oh usually for at least 196 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,039 three good steps away from the hall in any direction, 197 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,639 maybe as many as five or ten paces. And the 198 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,320 pace that we're talking about is a standard military parade 199 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,039 pace of thirty inches, which is two and a half feet, 200 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:46,840 and every four of those parade steps is ten feet. 201 00:10:47,879 --> 00:10:50,039 So if you walk four feet away from the hall 202 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,120 in any direction, you got you're talking about a ten 203 00:10:52,159 --> 00:10:52,759 foot putt. 204 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,879 Speaker 4: For most putts, I mean eighty five. 205 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,639 Speaker 3: Percent of them, if you're within ten feet, there's no 206 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,440 aney contour other than a flat surface from ball the 207 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,480 hole lots lots of times, and that's very beneficial because 208 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,200 that means that the break is quote simple unquote You 209 00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:16,039 don't know how much it is, and that's what we're 210 00:11:16,039 --> 00:11:16,919 focusing on now. 211 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 4: But a. 212 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,639 Speaker 3: Flat surface of a tilted slope of the green from 213 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:28,360 ball all the way to the hole, without enter any 214 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:33,759 funny wrinkling of the surface by hills and valleys and 215 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:35,000 all that. 216 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 4: That presents a simple break. 217 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,519 Speaker 3: And for most makeable puts in the seventy five to 218 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,279 eighty percent of what you actually fast when you go 219 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:47,639 to the golf, that happens to be the case. 220 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 4: And that's because the nature of. 221 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:56,759 Speaker 3: Designing and maintaining and mowing greens. They can't chain shape 222 00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:00,279 all that radically, or else you have problems. 223 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 4: Maintain them and mowing them. 224 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,279 Speaker 3: You know that old Urilco commercial that wintertime where Burl 225 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,519 lives is riding a razor across the snowdrifts and rain. 226 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: Buzz or yeah, he was dressed as Santa Claus ears. 227 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: Of singing arel coo as there's all that. Well, that's 228 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,559 the nature of a mowing deck of a Touro triplex more. 229 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,879 And you can't change the the radiacing of the green 230 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,399 surface too radically, or else you'll scout the green every 231 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,840 time you moull it. And that can't happen because you've 232 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,519 got a mold once a day. So the rate of 233 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:42,200 change of the surface of the green is conditioned and 234 00:12:42,279 --> 00:12:47,879 limited by the technology, and so you happily. You face 235 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,519 a lot of situations in machable putts where there's no 236 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,879 funny contour between the ball and the hall. There may 237 00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:59,919 be subtleties like a footprint and the ball pitch mark, 238 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,639 and maybe a little something a little stand of poe 239 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,559 ai in a way and that sort of thing. But 240 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:09,320 generally speaking, if you have a good, well maintained golf 241 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,279 course with plane jain uniform homogeneous grass coverage on the 242 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,440 green mode nicely. You got a lot of chances where 243 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,960 you can one put a simple putt right now. What 244 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:26,559 I teach and what I've created its two puts on 245 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,960 a plane, flat surface with a tilt. 246 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:31,159 Speaker 4: To get you so. 247 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,919 Speaker 3: You understand all the breaks on the tilts that you'll 248 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,840 be facing from all the distance inside about fifteen feet. 249 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,000 The only assumption is that the green is actually unwrinkled 250 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:45,519 between the ball and the hole. 251 00:13:45,879 --> 00:13:47,799 Speaker 1: To find unwrinkled, well. 252 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,159 Speaker 3: If you take a piece of paper and you let 253 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:51,039 it down on a kitchen counter and flatten it out 254 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,759 real good, that's unwrinkled. If you lift it up in 255 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,519 the air and stretch it tight, that's unwrinkled. If you 256 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,679 lay it down over top of your and bend a 257 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,759 little bit, that's wrinkled. 258 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: That's concord contoured, Okay, contract. 259 00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: The word contourd means not flat and plain the way 260 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,000 I'm using it. 261 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm thinking of I'm thinking of like 262 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:20,120 those mornings that the groundskeepers didn't drink enough coffee or 263 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:22,320 they had a bad morning with their wife or something, 264 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,559 and they they put the flag right at the crest 265 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:28,759 of a hill. No matter what angle you're coming from, 266 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:30,039 you're going up and over. 267 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:35,399 Speaker 3: Well there there there are guidelines published by the US 268 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:38,799 Golf Association about pen placements. 269 00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: Is there really? 270 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:43,559 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and I've been I'm a greenskeeper. I've done 271 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,440 this for you know, more than one year US that pens. 272 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:49,559 So I'm not just a lawyer and a golf coach 273 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,120 and a physicist and neuroscientists. 274 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 4: I'm also a greenskeeper. 275 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: Well, don't forget you're an Indian expert, and no, I'm 276 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,960 the top Indian expert. 277 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: Sorry, look at my little puddingtone dot com, forward slash 278 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,559 indians dot A stm L and then just drool it 279 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,159 what I've got? 280 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,519 Speaker 4: All right, it's there, it'll see it, all right. 281 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 3: So anyway, the the. 282 00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: The guidelines of the U s g A. 283 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: Basically don't want greenskeepers to do what you just described. 284 00:15:26,879 --> 00:15:32,320 They don't want sudden changes of contour. They want golfers 285 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,559 to have the opportunity, from anywhere on the green in 286 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:36,360 relations to. 287 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,879 Speaker 4: The whole, to send the ball to the hole. 288 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 3: And be able to stop it there within about two feet. 289 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 4: Really, that's one of the guidelines. 290 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I wonder if these guys read that because they don't. 291 00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: They don't because they're just educated, clod headed, rude individuals 292 00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:58,399 also called cretns. 293 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: I am c r e t I in this Okay, 294 00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:02,759 whatever that word is. 295 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want every golf smarter listener ever to 296 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,200 just whenever they see the ball roll, you know, they 297 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,480 get it to the hall and then it just keeps 298 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:12,840 rolling by another five or six feet it that's against 299 00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:13,320 the rules. 300 00:16:13,799 --> 00:16:14,519 Speaker 4: That's right now. 301 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: There there's a physical issue the combination of green slope. 302 00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:26,759 Speaker 4: That means steepness. How steep is the tilt of the surface. 303 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,320 The surface is flat, let's say that, but you tilted. 304 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:32,159 That means it's not level. 305 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: Now, golf people on TV, they are frequently also prettons 306 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:40,840 or cretence how you said, They don't know the difference 307 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,200 between flat and level those words in the English language 308 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,919 that we all are supposed to speak by about age 309 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:52,440 three four, Flat does not mean level in gravity, it 310 00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:56,960 means uncontoured and plain R. Hate the word planar because 311 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,480 of the way you stretch out the same syllable. 312 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 8: R are plain r. 313 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:09,079 Speaker 4: Okay, So, but flat does not mean level. 314 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,839 Speaker 3: Oh okay, now you take a CD rom it's flat, right, 315 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,920 if you bend it, it's not flat. 316 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:16,759 Speaker 1: Right, it's contoured. 317 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you slap it down on the kitchen counter, 318 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:22,359 it's both flat and level. 319 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,279 Speaker 1: So flat could be on an angle. 320 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,839 Speaker 4: Right, it's tilted, but it's tilted. 321 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,039 Speaker 3: All greens are. You don't make greens level. The water 322 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:38,079 comes down, the water won't go anywhere. That'll drown the grass. 323 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,920 It's called root rot. It's most common cause of problems 324 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,079 on greens. All architects in the world not to create 325 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,160 root rot, so they don't. They don't build flat green. 326 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,480 It's level, Mom'm sorry, excuse me, level greens. They don't 327 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,640 build level greens. That kills the grass. 328 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: To wait a minute, all this stuff people going, yeah, 329 00:17:57,799 --> 00:17:59,880 it always breaks to the mountain, it always breaks to 330 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:00,400 the water. 331 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 4: It is. 332 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily true, right, because it's about. 333 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 4: The golf course. 334 00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: Architect must design the subsurface of the green so that 335 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,400 it's tilted. And if it's not tilted a certain steepness, 336 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,240 the water will just pool under the under the surface 337 00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:28,839 and sit there and fester, and it messes up the ecology. 338 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,319 Speaker 4: Of the green system. 339 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: The ancient Athens, where I have been in ancient Athens, 340 00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:40,200 I'm I'm I'm working on my twenty first incarnation right now. 341 00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:45,279 There is a there's a there's a subway in Syntagma 342 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,200 Square in downtown Athens, and you go down into the 343 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,240 subway and they have a little display case, a museum 344 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:57,920 case where in five hundred BC the engineers of Athens 345 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,200 built terra cotta sewage pipe. 346 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 4: And the sewage pipes. There's a little placard at little 347 00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:06,519 fold over cardboard. 348 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 3: Placard in there in the case, you know, like you 349 00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:11,359 did the dinner party that sit here, kind of a 350 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,039 fall over thing, and it explains that unless you tilt 351 00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:20,240 the terra cotta piping at least two degrees of grade 352 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,119 or two percent of grade I'm sorry, not degrees percent 353 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,480 of grade, the water will not build up enough velocity 354 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,880 and momentum to clear the sludge out of the pipes, 355 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,759 and the pipes will fill up and stop up. 356 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:35,599 Speaker 4: All right. 357 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 3: So the modern golf course architects, if they don't know 358 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:42,039 that going in when they start building these five million 359 00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:42,759 dollar golf. 360 00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:48,079 Speaker 4: Courses, they will never work again. Wow. 361 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: Okay, So they learn by hard experience that they better 362 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,240 tilt thems under surface of the green. 363 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 4: They fill. 364 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 3: French drains in the herringbud pattern, and they collect the water. 365 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 4: Fourteen or fifteen inches beneath the. 366 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,799 Speaker 3: Surface of the grass into a pattern and then redirect 367 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:10,720 it back into the general terrain pattern of the erosion 368 00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:14,359 of the local train, which is typically away from the mountains. 369 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:15,839 Speaker 4: Store it's the ponds, that's true. 370 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 3: Golf Course architects will play with that because they're crafty 371 00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:25,839 little devils, and sometimes they will tilt it contrariwise to 372 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,839 the natural flow of the landscape in order to mess. 373 00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 4: With the golfers and challenge them to pick up on 374 00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:33,079 what they've done. 375 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: They're primary function mess with. 376 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 3: Us, that's right, And there's a limit on how much 377 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,200 they can do before the tree reveals itself and the 378 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,200 gig is up. So they're subtle when they do it, 379 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:51,400 but they do it on purpose. All greens complexes, they 380 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,160 are basically structured by hand by the golf course architectures 381 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,519 and architects, and so they pretty much decide what they 382 00:20:59,519 --> 00:20:59,960 want to do. 383 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 4: This is a question of whether. 384 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:08,599 Speaker 3: They're skillful and and concealing their art. If you, I 385 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,240 don't know, if you won't go into all that stuff. 386 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,480 But you remember a couple of years ago they played well. 387 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 4: Wait, a minute. 388 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,559 Speaker 1: You know what, I'm sorry, I don't hold that thought. 389 00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,400 Please remember, because I know I will forget, But I've 390 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,720 also forgotten that I'm supposed to say that. This episode 391 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:24,759 of the Golf Smarter Podcast is brought to you by 392 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,240 all Right, Jeff, let's get back to your stuff, because sure, 393 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,319 not like we're running out of time. But we don't 394 00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:37,240 have a lot of time left. 395 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 9: But we are going to do a part We're gonna 396 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:40,680 do a part two. 397 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: We're going to do a members only episode. So let's 398 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,759 take this to our limit here and then we'll come 399 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:46,079 back and do a member's only episode. 400 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: Well, let me give you the diamond bullet and the 401 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,640 forehead shot on two butts. 402 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: Okay, two putts. 403 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,799 Speaker 3: You go, you find a flat area of the green 404 00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:57,920 that allows you to make a ten foot without running 405 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,279 over any funny contour, and then you find a flat 406 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,680 tilt that is about percent. 407 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:12,039 Speaker 4: That would be a very how many because of the 408 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,480 I was telling you that there is a physical limit 409 00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:15,319 on how much you. 410 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: Can tilt the green before the ball will not stay 411 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:20,720 on that surface. It will always roll downhill no matter 412 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,160 what you do. That limit is really a combination of 413 00:22:25,279 --> 00:22:29,039 green speed and slope the faster the green, the less 414 00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:33,440 slope you can have before that point is reached. The 415 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,640 slower the green where you got to tilt it. Then 416 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,880 you reach the point with a greater tilt. But it's 417 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,119 always the combination of the green speed and. 418 00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 4: The slope steepness. 419 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 3: And so if you say everybody mows their greens today 420 00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:50,160 to about stemp nine, maybe stamp ten on occasion that 421 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:56,400 limit is reached around a six percent slope, And the 422 00:22:56,519 --> 00:23:00,519 all golf course architects know this one too. It makes 423 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:04,359 if they make seven percent slope, the golf course is 424 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,359 gonna stamp ten that he's just wasted pendable positions. 425 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 4: You're not gonna have holes there. 426 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,599 Speaker 3: He's just luxuriating and spending somebody else's money by design 427 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,559 that sort of green. Because the person that owns the 428 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:20,480 golf course is not really going to be able to 429 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:25,559 use seven percent slope unless they get really slow grass, and. 430 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 4: They don't like that. 431 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,039 Speaker 3: Their members don't like slow grass, so they're always stimp 432 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,319 and izes or whatever. And so the reality of today's 433 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,279 golf course architecture of greens, which should inform every skillful 434 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:42,319 golfer's mind, which I doubt that it does. But if 435 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,680 you inform yourself about golf course architecture, you will know 436 00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:51,039 that the range of steepness of slope kind of maxes 437 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:57,119 out around six percent. And if you stretched the numbers zero, one, two, three, four, 438 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,400 five and six out on a bell curve, the zeros 439 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,200 in the sixes are practically non existent, the ones in. 440 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,279 Speaker 4: The fives are rare. 441 00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 3: Two and four percent slopes are pretty calm, and three 442 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,039 percent is the wheelhouse core of the whole deal. Two 443 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:19,359 and three and four percent are the slopes that you 444 00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:23,160 run into most frequently. And that's what we're about, learning 445 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,799 the ones you run into most frequently. We're not trying 446 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,839 to learn mathematics and physics formulas like these, ya who's 447 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:39,359 from Yale teaching how to calculate with lang Lagrangians formulas 448 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,240 in four dimensions what exactly the ball will do to 449 00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:48,039 a pinpoint target that is infantasmally small. We're not doing 450 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:51,960 that kind of silliness. We're playing golf like rough and 451 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,880 rowdy Scots walking across the sheep pasture. 452 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 4: So what we want to do is to. 453 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 3: Bushwhack the most common putts that we actually can sink 454 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,839 and actually run into. 455 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,039 Speaker 4: And that means we really want. 456 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,799 Speaker 3: To know inside of fifteen feet and specifically ten footers 457 00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:16,359 on two percent slope, three percent slope, four percent slope, 458 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,119 and that sort of thing. 459 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 4: So here are the two putts. Will tell you that 460 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,079 find a two. 461 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 3: Percent flat area of the green that you can make 462 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,480 a ten foot put on without running across a funny contract. 463 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,240 How do you know it's two percent slope? 464 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,759 Speaker 1: That's funny? That was my next question. How do you understand? 465 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:35,599 How do you say that's a x percent? 466 00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 4: Right? To say to a two percent slope? The word 467 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,559 percent means one hundred per one hundred. 468 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,279 Speaker 3: So if you walk one hundred inches straight down the 469 00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:56,599 fall line, straight uphill downhill line through the hole away 470 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,880 down the steepest direction from the hull down that fall 471 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,359 line one hundred inches, and then compare the elevation of 472 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,799 the grass where your foot is with the elevation higher 473 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,519 back up that one hundred inches where the hole is. 474 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,720 If the drop in elevation from the hull to the 475 00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:20,759 foot is two inches, it's two percent slow. 476 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's pretty easy. 477 00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:26,279 Speaker 3: And now how do you know it's one hundred inches 478 00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:30,759 that you walk downhill? Military paces are thirty inches? Three 479 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:33,839 of those plus ten more inches three steps plus the 480 00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:34,839 one grip of a putter. 481 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 4: All grips of pudders on conventional putters are ten inches long. Also, 482 00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:42,000 your foot is about ten inches long, so three. 483 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: Inches three military paces straight downhill from the hull plus 484 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,480 ten more inches that's one hundred inches. 485 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 4: The second way to. 486 00:26:50,079 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: Know one hundred inches is that most conventional putters are 487 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,240 around thirty four to thirty five inches. If you flip 488 00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:59,720 three putters, you're there good enough for going to work. Now, 489 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:04,440 if you're standing below the hole one hundred inches away, 490 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:09,920 how do you sort of assess how different it is 491 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,599 in elevation. 492 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,839 Speaker 4: You have to imagine a string. 493 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: At the hole that you draw out kind of like 494 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,559 a razor stripe or whatever. You draw a string level 495 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,839 away from the hole, over top of that line that 496 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,920 you walk down so that the string is level in gravity, 497 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,759 and you pull it out, and then the string is 498 00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,480 poised in the air a certain elevation above the ground. 499 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,400 And if it's two inches above the ground, that would 500 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,039 basically sit on the top of your shoe at the 501 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:50,759 toe area. That's about how the toe area of your 502 00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:55,480 shoe is. If it's three inches, that string would come 503 00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:59,440 to your foot and meet somewhere about where your laces are, 504 00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:03,039 not quite the top of the lacens. Right in the middle, 505 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,559 near the top of the lacens is about three inches 506 00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:09,039 off the ground. If the strain comes to your foot 507 00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:12,839 and hits the ankle bone or your foot, the ankle 508 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,519 bone is about four inches off the ground. So basically, 509 00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,160 you walk three inch three steps downhill from the hole, 510 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,799 straight down the fall line, and they add ten more 511 00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:23,559 inches and you look back at the hole and you 512 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,160 imagine that strain coming out level and gravity and hitting 513 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,359 your foot somewhere, and you say, is it top of 514 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,119 the toe to two percent? Is it laces three percent? 515 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,759 Or is it ankle four percent? 516 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: All right, So here's what I want to do. We 517 00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:42,440 need to continue this because I need to know more 518 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,119 about the percentage and what it is. So, okay, I 519 00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:46,880 figured out it's two percent. What am I supposed to 520 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,319 do with that information? I also want to know, well, no, 521 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,319 don't even answer me, because I know that's gonna be 522 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:53,000 another site and we still have we have to bring 523 00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:58,240 Terry on for our short game academy. But I also 524 00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:00,599 want you to explain what the hell is DIMP meter 525 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,480 is and where it comes from and any gadgets out 526 00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:07,839 there that are that are fall line gadgets, you know, 527 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,440 like beyond your plumb botty and that stuff. So will 528 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,640 you come back for a members only episode for next week? 529 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:13,279 Speaker 4: Oh? 530 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right, then we'll record that in just a moment. 531 00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:18,880 But thank you very much. Is there anything you'd like 532 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,720 to tell our general audience about getting this paper that 533 00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:23,240 you've uh oh yeah. 534 00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:26,839 Speaker 3: Sure, please free well send me an email and uh 535 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,240 and say hello and ask for the papers. You can 536 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:33,680 ask for the green Reading paper or PDF, a meta pdf. 537 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,119 It's forty forty five pages long. 538 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:42,799 Speaker 4: It's got pictures, diagrams, videos too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 539 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:44,319 Speaker 3: And it does I've got my I got a little 540 00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:46,480 YouTube video show I did that string thing I just 541 00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:50,640 told you about. And you send me an email to 542 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,119 Jeff at putting Zone and the Jeff is spelled funny. 543 00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:59,400 Geo starts out like George, ends up like Jeff g 544 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:06,039 e oh f f at putting Zone dot com and 545 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:09,680 you send me an emailop, I'll send it right back 546 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,920 to you at three am in the morning. 547 00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:16,359 Speaker 1: And also there are there are Putting Zone certified Putting 548 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,039 Zone instructors everywhere nowadays, aren't there. 549 00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:21,599 Speaker 3: That's right, there's one hundred and forty eight coaches and 550 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,680 twenty countries around the world. 551 00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:28,039 Speaker 1: So if you're as enamored with Jeff's content as I am, 552 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,960 and you want really to work with somebody one on one, 553 00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:34,880 you can find them and they're all listed on your 554 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,440 putting zone dot Com website. 555 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: Correct, I have a Google map that shows exactly where 556 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:39,440 they are. 557 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: And you're traveling around the country all the time doing clinics. 558 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 4: I swear I'm going right now. 559 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,359 Speaker 3: I'm going to Kentucky to work with the University Kentucky 560 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,079 coaches and also my friend Matt Jordan there in Lexington, Kentucky, 561 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,039 and before Sunday, I have three more catches. 562 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: Amazing. All right, so uh, we're gonna for all the 563 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,400 Golf Smarter members who want to continue this listening to 564 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,000 this conversation, stay tuned because it'll be coming up next week. Jeff, 565 00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:10,319 we will speak with you on our next episode. Thank 566 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,119 you so much, buddy, and go take a swig of 567 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,440 that at McDonald's coffee. 568 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 4: Okay, thank you very much, And now it's. 569 00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 9: Time for scre Zone Short Game Academy with Terry Taylor. 570 00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:32,400 If you have a question about your short game, click 571 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,960 on the score Zone Academy button at golfsmarter dot com 572 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,079 and let the experts at score Golf put a new 573 00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:42,240 money club in your bag. If Terry answers your question 574 00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:45,720 on the show, you'll receive a free score forty one. 575 00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: Sixty one wedge. Better yet, click on their ad at 576 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,799 golfsmarter dot com and you'll get ten percent off your order. 577 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,640 And here's another reason to join golf Smarter for members, 578 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,960 only fifteen percent off your order from score Golf. At 579 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,319 additional five percent that could easily pay for your membership 580 00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:05,200 for the next few years. Terry, welcome back to our 581 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,039 Short Game Academy. The reaction from our audience to your 582 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:12,599 advice and generous offers has been pretty awesome. There have 583 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,440 been some great questions that have been coming in, and 584 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,759 I get the sense that more than the opportunity to 585 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,839 get a free wedge, our listeners just love your insights 586 00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:23,559 to the short game. 587 00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 8: That's what we're here for. 588 00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 10: We're here to help people score better and learn more 589 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,160 about their scoring clubs. And the only thing I have 590 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,039 to tell you is if they're looking for a free wage, 591 00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:33,920 they can't get one from score Golf because we don't 592 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,559 make wedges. 593 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,799 Speaker 8: We make precisions scoring clubs. 594 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,119 Speaker 1: Ooh, got me? 595 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:39,799 Speaker 8: Okay, gotcha? 596 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: You got me? Yeah, And so we would love to 597 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,640 give away some scoring clubs because that's what you're gonna do. 598 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,279 You're gonna score better when you play with your score 599 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:57,839 golf scoring club. And if I can be a testimony 600 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:01,400 on that one, I'm loving mine. But because of my 601 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:05,440 insanity of moving, I haven't gotten a chance to play. 602 00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,400 So I'm watching other people play a lot. But I 603 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,240 want to get to these questions. And we're going to 604 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,160 concentrate today on one question that came in from Randy Starbuck, 605 00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:19,839 who lives in Elk Grove, California. And you know, it's 606 00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:23,759 it's just coincidence that they're Californians that are that are 607 00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:27,759 we're doing this. But his question says that the conventional 608 00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:31,839 wisdom is that bounce needed in a wedge, he'll call 609 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,599 it a wedge is governed by one course conditions hard 610 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,759 tight or versus lush and soft, and or two your 611 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,759 swing a sweeper versus a digger. Well, that creates some 612 00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:51,759 wide variations. So when buying a wedge, what should we 613 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,079 lean towards for selecting the right bounce? Courts? Conditions and 614 00:33:56,119 --> 00:33:59,359 our swing type. I hope that makes sense, does it? 615 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,559 I'm sure sense to you. 616 00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:07,039 Speaker 10: Well, that very question is what led me to develop 617 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,400 the patented vesol about twenty years ago. But instead of 618 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,599 getting into a commercial, let's talk about Randy's dilemma, because 619 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:17,400 everybody has that same dilemma. And what I'm going to 620 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,119 start with is make sure everybody really understands what bounce is. 621 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,840 Because I get hundreds and hundreds of questions through my 622 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,159 blog and people calling in and people are confused. I 623 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,559 had one of the top one hundred retailers in the 624 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:32,719 country approached me at the Golf Show and this is 625 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,480 a top one hundred teacher and a top one hundred retailer, 626 00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:38,559 and she says, can you really explain to me what bounces? 627 00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 8: So that's how confusing bounds is. Let me try to. 628 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 10: Clarify for this you got for all your listeners out there. 629 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,679 If you hold up your wedge or any golf club 630 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,119 and look at the bottom of the golf club, look 631 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,119 right down that what I call the worm's eye view, 632 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,039 you will see that a wedge has a downward angle 633 00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:57,800 from the leading edge where the soul meets the face 634 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,119 backwards to the rear trailer edge of the soul. This 635 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,760 downward angle is called bounce. And very simply what bounce 636 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,280 does because of that downward angle is it causes the 637 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440 turf to reject that golf club, if you will so 638 00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:17,239 on contact the amount of bounce, it acts like an 639 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,360 airplane wing. It provides lift, and so it the turf 640 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,840 will tend to reject that. So the functionality of bounce 641 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,800 is governed by the width of the soul and the 642 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,559 and this actual angle of the downward So when we 643 00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:36,880 talk about high bounce wedges, we talk we're typically talking 644 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,000 about wedges from nine to fifteen degrees of bounce, and 645 00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:44,079 the modern modern wedges typically all have about the same 646 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:46,360 width of soul. If you look at the you know, 647 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,360 the wedge rack from all the different brands, you don't 648 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,239 see a lot of variation and soul width unless you 649 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,360 get into there. But obviously if you have a lower 650 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,519 bounce angle and a wider soul, you know you're going 651 00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:00,880 to have more bounce effect than a narrow were sold. 652 00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:04,719 The challenge for wedge play comes into if you go 653 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,519 back and look at the history of the wedge. The 654 00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:09,880 earliest wedges had a wide soul but not a lot 655 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,679 of bounce on them, but bunkers were all very firm 656 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:18,000 back then. As the wedge evolved through the forties and fifties, 657 00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:21,360 we saw wedges get bigger souls. Some of you might 658 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,679 remember the old Hogan shure out There was a bunch 659 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,519 of other wedges out there that had bigger souls and 660 00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:33,119 rounded souls, and bounce began in the sixties, and really 661 00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:35,599 in the seventies and eighties you began to see these 662 00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:39,079 variations of low bounce high bounce. But the industry has 663 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:41,920 been very consistent. All the wedge companies will tell you 664 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,360 that just as Randy astid, you need a high bounce 665 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,079 wedge for soft and lush lies, you need a low 666 00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,880 bounce wedge for hard and tight lives. Well, the challenge 667 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,519 there for all of us is, my golf course has 668 00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:58,239 got all of those. My golf course plays tight and fast, 669 00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:02,239 except at rain last night it's less and soft. The 670 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,119 tour player has an easy solution that he goes into 671 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:07,159 the equipment trailer and gets a much free new edges 672 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,760 so he can deal with whatevery got dealt with. But 673 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,039 in our world it really doesn't work that way. Conventional 674 00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:16,519 wisdom also is if you have a steep angle of 675 00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:18,960 attack and you're kind of coming down on the ball 676 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,719 more abruptly. You need a higher bounce wedge to give 677 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,480 you more rejecting force. If you have a shallow angle 678 00:37:26,519 --> 00:37:28,320 of attack, you kind of nip the ball off without 679 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,840 much DIBt. You can get away with the lower bounce wedge. 680 00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,000 The problem is, if you're a good player, you vary 681 00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:37,000 your angle of approach because the kind of shot you're 682 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,360 trying to hit. So if you're trying to hit a 683 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,519 little lower shot, you're going to swing shallower through impact. 684 00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:43,719 If you're trying to hit a higher shot, a flop shot, 685 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,119 you're going to pick the ball up more, the club 686 00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:48,440 up more abruptly, and have a steeper angle of attack. 687 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,320 If you're a fifteen to twenty handicapper, you vary your angle. 688 00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 8: Of attack completely by accident. 689 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,039 Speaker 10: That's why you're a fifteen to twenty handicapper, because you're 690 00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:58,960 not grooveed into the exact same angle of attack. 691 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,039 Speaker 1: Be nice, I'm trying to be nice. 692 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,119 Speaker 10: But the problem is is that how do you fit 693 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,639 something that constantly changes. And I was talking to a 694 00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:11,920 fitter one day, and I'll divulge off into this little parable. 695 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:14,320 I'm talking to this club fitter and he says, well, 696 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,159 I like to fit Bounce. And I said, well, let 697 00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:17,800 me ask you this. If a guy came in for 698 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,079 a driver fitting and his first swing he hit a 699 00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:23,800 highest slice. His second swing he hit a smother hook. 700 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,719 His third swing he hit one right down the middle. 701 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,639 His fourth swing he topped the ball, fifth swing he 702 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,440 skied it. Sixth swing he hit a big high hook. 703 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,280 Seventh swing he hit a low, squealing slice. How would 704 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,360 you fit that guy when he can't make two swings 705 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,400 in a row that are the same. 706 00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: And I can't fit that guy. 707 00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 8: I can't fit him. 708 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 709 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 10: I said, well, then how do you fit Bounce when 710 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,559 every wedshot the lie is going to be different than 711 00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:51,000 the one before that? And he said, wow, I never 712 00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:53,760 thought of it that way. So, Mandy, I'm going to 713 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,159 tell you that the easiest solution what you're doing is 714 00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:58,440 to go buy a score forty one sixty one with 715 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,840 our patented vesol which has a high bounce and a 716 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,760 low bounce in every wedge and every soul rather and 717 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,840 you know every one of them is designed for that 718 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:09,760 particular loft. 719 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 8: Short of that, you know what a lot of people will. 720 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:17,159 Speaker 10: Do is carry, you know, a low bounce club in 721 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,280 maybe a fifty eight or sixty degree and a higher 722 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,320 bounce club in a fifty four or fifty six. And 723 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,880 that way, if you have a high bounced situation, you 724 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,760 use that club. If you have a low bounce situation, 725 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,559 you use the other one. It's not ideal, but even 726 00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:35,360 the big manufacturers that make these conventional old style bounces, 727 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,599 they will tell you that's what to do. I never 728 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,159 like turning this show into a commercial for Score Golfer 729 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,079 for the things I designed. But you know, this is 730 00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:49,119 a big problem because conventional wisdom and conventional wedge design 731 00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:55,599 doesn't really lend itself to solve this problem. We believe 732 00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:58,039 we did with our patented v sol. We got a 733 00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,199 cult like following out there, as Fred and a lot 734 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:03,199 of your listeners out there, a lot of you all 735 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,519 know you've tried our idol on wedges and now our 736 00:40:05,519 --> 00:40:09,920 Score forty one sixty one precision scoring clubs, and we're 737 00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:12,440 we're really tackling that into the set. We don't make 738 00:40:12,519 --> 00:40:15,800 drivers and irons, and you know, we're focusing on helping 739 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,079 people you deal with this high end of the set, 740 00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:22,159 because people like Randy, you have questions and challenges, and 741 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:22,920 so that's. 742 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:23,679 Speaker 8: What we're trying to do. 743 00:40:24,519 --> 00:40:27,039 Speaker 10: But Randy, and like I say, back to your question, 744 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,800 you know, my recommendation is I'd love you to try 745 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,199 our stuff. We got one coming frequently answered your question. 746 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,159 You can fill out the rest of the set. But 747 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,719 you know, for the rest of you all, if you're 748 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,519 not ready to replace your scoring clubs, and we'd love 749 00:40:41,519 --> 00:40:43,639 a shot at your business if you do. But if 750 00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:46,440 you're not ready to replace that, try to have, you know, 751 00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:48,679 clubs in your bag that have a variety, have a 752 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,199 high bounce and a low bounce golf club in there. 753 00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:54,480 My recommendation is put your lower bounce on the higher 754 00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:57,400 loft club and your high bounce on the on the 755 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,960 lower loft fifty six. 756 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,599 Speaker 1: And why would you separate them that way? And I'm 757 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:08,360 sorry if this is being redundant, because it's still I 758 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,159 don't know if even with this explanation, if I can 759 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,400 explain to somebody simply, here's what bounces. Is there a 760 00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:18,480 simple answer of which is best, you know, on the 761 00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,559 higher loft and the lower loft. Well, sorry to do. 762 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,679 Speaker 10: That to you, No, I mean it's not because it's 763 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,719 a very complex topic. 764 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,199 Speaker 8: It really is. 765 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 10: If the turf is soft, you need a higher bounce 766 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:33,000 to help keep the keep the club from digging, whether 767 00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:34,880 it's a bunker or whether it's a chip shot or 768 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,199 a pit shot. If and if the surf turf is soft, 769 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,360 you're you're going to still be able to lay the 770 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,239 club open a little bit, so you can add a little. 771 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,119 Speaker 8: Loft to that fifty four fifty six by. 772 00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:48,280 Speaker 10: Laying it open and get you know, get the ball 773 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,559 flight that you're after on that little short range shot. 774 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,199 On full swing shots, it's not that critical, you know, 775 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,440 because you've got a lot of club. 776 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,679 Speaker 8: EDGs beat to get the ball out of the turf. 777 00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,159 Speaker 4: Anyway. 778 00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 10: Uh, the only only time becomes real critical and a 779 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,960 full swing shot is when you're playing off of a 780 00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:06,519 very tight, hard pan type line. A high bounce club 781 00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:08,480 is going to skip right in. If you hit a 782 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,960 little a little a little behind the ball, that high 783 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,360 bounce club is going to skip into the ball. So 784 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,079 if you have a long range shot and you're carrying, 785 00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:17,800 you know that that it's a I'd love to hit 786 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,920 my fifty four degree, but it's a high bounce club 787 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,880 and I've got to I've got a tight lie then 788 00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:24,960 you know, go to your go to your your pea 789 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,880 club or your gap wedge and and just grip down 790 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,960 on a little bit and something with less bounce. But 791 00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:34,480 it's a dilemma. I mean, I would tell you that 792 00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:37,320 there is no answer for this except what we did 793 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,679 with the viola. I'm sorry, guys. I mean, that's just 794 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,000 that's just what it is. And because our soul never 795 00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,079 meant a lot didn't like and there aren't any other 796 00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:47,599 wedges out there that do that. Regardless of what these 797 00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,400 little nuanced grinds and they say we took some off 798 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,360 the heel and the and the toe and all that, 799 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,920 that doesn't make a big difference. I mean, you have 800 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,360 to have bounce to make a make a club function. 801 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,960 And uh, you know, we've done something pretty pretty march 802 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:02,039 us with our v soul. But you know, there are 803 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,280 ways to at least overcome some of the limitations of 804 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,559 conventional wedge design. And you know, the only the only 805 00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:10,760 one that I can recommend is that you know, have 806 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,000 ai bounce club and have a low bounce club. I 807 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:14,599 don't think you want to carry two clubs of the 808 00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,880 same loft, but you know, because that gets into your 809 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,760 full swing gapping but again the short end of the set. 810 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,039 You know, one of the things at the short end 811 00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:24,320 of the set, as I mentioned, I've got wedges in 812 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:29,480 my collection from the thirties, fifties, sixties, seventy eighties, the wedge, 813 00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:32,519 which why I say SCOREGolf doesn't make wedges. The wedge 814 00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:35,519 basically hasn't changed in fifty sixty seventy years. I've got 815 00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:40,039 a nineteen fifties Spaulding dynamiter that if I took all 816 00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:42,519 if I took all the graphics off and rechromed it, 817 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,400 I would defy anybody to be able to tell that 818 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,840 from one of the twenty twelve models out there. 819 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 8: Interesting. 820 00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:52,039 Speaker 1: All right, buddy, Well listen, we will talk to you again, 821 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:55,840 and we'll cover another question in a couple episodes for 822 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,119 the next Golf Smarter episode. Thank you very much for 823 00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:02,360 your time and for your knowledgeable answer. 824 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 10: Always a pleasure. Can't wait for the next show.