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<v Speaker 1>Get ready for it you.

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<v Speaker 2>April fifteen, twenty twenty six, allegedly according to that thing

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<v Speaker 2>we call a calendar. You know, they also used to

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<v Speaker 2>call this tax Day. Hopefully you've taken care of all that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we are live on a Wednesday Wodnesday, middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the week. But of course most of you will catch

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast later on down the stream, and that's just

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<v Speaker 2>fine by me because at least you're listening and listening

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<v Speaker 2>in anyway, this is a good one. Also continuing on

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<v Speaker 2>with the theme of thanking people that decided to chip

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<v Speaker 2>in for the big yearly bills to help me pay them.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I will once again mention that Ed and

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<v Speaker 2>b Pete and I'm looking over to my side here

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<v Speaker 2>trying to catch something and not not reveal that to you. Anyways,

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<v Speaker 2>Danny and of course our friend regular Joe all contributed

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<v Speaker 2>to help us get through. And that's still going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you want to be thank the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>the week, do so by contributing at o'chelly dot com

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<v Speaker 2>and that is through cash app or the PayPal for

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<v Speaker 2>missus oh, because they took mine away any who. Enough

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<v Speaker 2>of that, part of my thank you this week is

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<v Speaker 2>to bring on Larry Hancock and his co author for

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<v Speaker 2>The Oswald Puzzle, David Boylin. Oh wow, I said the

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<v Speaker 2>a correctly at that time. Anyways, David Boylan, who has

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<v Speaker 2>been his co author on this book, and of course

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<v Speaker 2>I highly recommended the first version of it. There is

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<v Speaker 2>an update. That update is worthy of an update, because

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<v Speaker 2>you know me, I will tell you, guys if somebody's

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<v Speaker 2>just trying to sell you another book instead of giving

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<v Speaker 2>you some worthy information that needed to be added to

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<v Speaker 2>the volume. And again, I highly recommend this book for

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<v Speaker 2>the study of Lee Harvey Oswald. I think it's an

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<v Speaker 2>excellent piece and stands alone. But then again, I recommend

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<v Speaker 2>all of Larry Hancock's books and have them all physically

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<v Speaker 2>on my shelf, every last one, and you should too.

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<v Speaker 2>But this one tonight we're talking about is The Oswald Puzzle.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, there will be links to Larry Hancock in

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<v Speaker 2>the show notes. You know, David, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>you have a centralized website to go to, but you

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<v Speaker 2>need to email that to me so I can include

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<v Speaker 2>it in the show notes. I forgot to ask you

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<v Speaker 2>about that before we started to record here, but I

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<v Speaker 2>definitely need that from you, and just if you could

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<v Speaker 2>make a mental note. If you're as good as me,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll need to be reminded again later, but that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Hopefully I'll have David's information in the show notes in

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<v Speaker 2>case you want to reach out or to further exploration

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<v Speaker 2>of any other work that David does. But I do

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<v Speaker 2>highly recommend the Oswald puzzles. So enough out of me.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though I went to air twelve minutes late, I

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<v Speaker 2>only took three minutes to ramble at the beginning, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's not bad for o'helley, Larry. How you doing tonight?

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<v Speaker 3>First off, didn't find Chuck.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks, it actually rains some here. Thanks are green. It's

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<v Speaker 4>a lovely spring, so it's a late late spring in

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<v Speaker 4>an early spring both and they're even mosquitoes out already.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what you sound kind of chipper, which

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<v Speaker 2>is good because you know, when it rains, I get

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<v Speaker 2>miserable because I feel every bone I ever broke as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as it rains around me, or even before it does,

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<v Speaker 2>the pressure drops. But I love it that you enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>the weather and where you're at. So David, you know

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<v Speaker 2>you haven't made too many appearances on the show, but

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<v Speaker 2>definitely glad to have you along, and I've seen you

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<v Speaker 2>in person and everything, and especially it was interesting when

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<v Speaker 2>you were presenting live and Larry was virtual at a

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<v Speaker 2>conference not too long ago.

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<v Speaker 5>That was fun.

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<v Speaker 2>There may be several jokes we could add here, but

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<v Speaker 2>let's not do that. How you doing tonight, sir?

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<v Speaker 6>I am doing good, doing well. That is nice trippers, Larry,

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<v Speaker 6>but I'm doing pretty good well.

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<v Speaker 5>That's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Few of us can be anywhere near like Larry Hancock.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean that's you know, no jokes either.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyways, David, I'm kind of going to start with you

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<v Speaker 2>believe it or not, and I want Larry to frame

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<v Speaker 2>things as he feels appropriate, because there is an increase

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<v Speaker 2>of information here in this volume, the Oswald puzzle once again,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure I'll include a picture of the book

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<v Speaker 2>along with the show graphics, so if you don't recognize it,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a fairly well known photo of Oswald on the

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<v Speaker 2>front cover. Interesting design, and definitely advise you get yourself

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<v Speaker 2>a physical copy because you know, not you, David, but

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<v Speaker 2>other people need to get a physical copy because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I am just a physical copy book kind

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<v Speaker 2>of guy. If it's worth having, it's worth keeping and

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<v Speaker 2>this digital stuff can be changed, deleted, altered at any time,

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, I appreciate the physical book, and even

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<v Speaker 2>the they will look almost exactly the same on your bookshelf.

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<v Speaker 2>It's worth it to get the second one. Anyway, Enough plugs, David,

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<v Speaker 2>you wound up going into you know, not just you alone, obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>but you spent quite a bit of time working on

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<v Speaker 2>the New Orleans angle here, and this is always big

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<v Speaker 2>bones of contention, big problems. We've seen this story in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of places, even in the most famous of places,

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<v Speaker 2>like the movie JFK, etc. You know, and there is

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<v Speaker 2>just a labyrinth of information available regarding this character Oswald.

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<v Speaker 2>And I call him a character because well he is

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<v Speaker 2>quite the character, somebody who only lived to be twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four years old, who did quite a bit in his

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<v Speaker 2>short life, and some of it in New Orleans. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you could, you know, without giving a lot away,

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<v Speaker 2>give us an idea of, you know, some of the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that you expound upon in the New Orleans section

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<v Speaker 2>that you contributed here to the Oswald.

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<v Speaker 5>Puzzle, please sure a couple of things. First.

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<v Speaker 6>First of all, this book wouldn't exist without Rex Bradford.

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<v Speaker 6>I just want to throw that out there. He was

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<v Speaker 6>such a big help both you know, the update and

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<v Speaker 6>the original one, so much editing, and you'd call us

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<v Speaker 6>out on a lot of things that made us actually

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<v Speaker 6>you know, reference everything documented like so excellent.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, you know what, David, Here's the way that I

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<v Speaker 2>would put this is that, thankfully in jfk Land, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of things do and do not exist because of

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<v Speaker 2>Rex Bradford, and we are all better off for it. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>the things that do exist and the things that don't

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<v Speaker 2>because of Rex are both very positive things. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>not even to mention all of his work at Mary

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<v Speaker 2>Farrell Foundation, and even the very early work. They're scanning

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of documentation making it available to us all

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<v Speaker 2>among other things. Plus he was editing this book with

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<v Speaker 2>you guys, and he is a tough editor. To my understanding.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that all accurate according to you, David? Or did

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<v Speaker 2>I have something wrong?

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah? He's such a cool, low key guy. But yes,

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<v Speaker 6>he is very demanding, but in a nice polate way,

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<v Speaker 6>you know. But yeah, I mean, the Mary Farrell Foundation

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<v Speaker 6>is priceless.

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<v Speaker 5>You know.

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<v Speaker 6>Again, I've been doing this for like thirty something years.

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<v Speaker 6>I remember the old you'd have to you know, right

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<v Speaker 6>into narrow and you know, tell them what you wanted.

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<v Speaker 6>They would photocopy and send it to you one hundred

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<v Speaker 6>pages for free, you know. So that's all we get

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<v Speaker 6>back in those days on any subject, you know. But

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<v Speaker 6>with the Mary Farrell Foundation, you know, the queries are

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<v Speaker 6>can do. The database awesome. You know, it helps build

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<v Speaker 6>the knowledge base, you know, and helps you know what's

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<v Speaker 6>in our heads, you know, just like, oh, that's being

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<v Speaker 6>it to make sense. Now now we have kryptonyms. Now

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<v Speaker 6>we know that all these people are. Now we got

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<v Speaker 6>you know, really released documents or updated documents where the

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<v Speaker 6>redactions are going they're unredacted. Now now we know that

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<v Speaker 6>you know, this person was contacted by this person. Now

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<v Speaker 6>we know who that's. You know, this guy's pseudonym was

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<v Speaker 6>Cayle Trenton, will you know, we'll talk about him a

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<v Speaker 6>little bit. You know, he was Carl Thiels and his

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<v Speaker 6>dealings with Augustine Guitot, you know, who is Sylvia Odio's uncle.

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<v Speaker 6>But but yeah, I mean that's where we're at now,

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<v Speaker 6>which is why we're able to update this book. We

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<v Speaker 6>just kept digging, building out relationships, who these people are

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<v Speaker 6>and taking a fresh look at you know who Oswald

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<v Speaker 6>was actually dealing.

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<v Speaker 5>With in New Orleans.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, we'll go back to the original like all right,

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<v Speaker 6>guy Bannister, David Ferry, Kerry Thornley. But I had never

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<v Speaker 6>really got us anywhere. You know, a lot of dead ends,

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<v Speaker 6>you know. So when we started looking at the people

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<v Speaker 6>at Oswald was actually dealing with, they were the Cubans

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<v Speaker 6>that that recalls them, the old school Cubans, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>the old guys from the CRC Cuban Revolutionary consul They

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<v Speaker 6>were at Oswald's you know, court appearance.

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<v Speaker 5>And why would at Oswald's court appearance? How do they

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<v Speaker 5>know about him?

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<v Speaker 6>So that's where we started to dig in and flesh

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<v Speaker 6>out these characters to find out they're role CIA connected,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, literally CIA connected.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, let me just interrupt you here to clarify

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<v Speaker 2>for the audience. Of course, the court appearance you're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about is the very well known incident where there was

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<v Speaker 2>the scuffle in the street let's call it between Oswald,

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<v Speaker 2>Carlos Berengeer, and some other Cuban individuals when he was

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<v Speaker 2>handing out leaflets in public and then there was an incident. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 2>he goes to court and winds up paying something like

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<v Speaker 2>a ten dollar fine I think with at the time

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, you know, and and walking out. But

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<v Speaker 2>he's the only guy who got fined in the incident.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say I'm holding up air quotes for you guys

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<v Speaker 2>at home, I can't see you know that that occurs here.

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<v Speaker 2>But that leads to a whole thing where he gets

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<v Speaker 2>seen in public, you know, on a couple of different broadcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>He gets heard on a radio station or a well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Latin listening post. And of course it seems

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<v Speaker 2>like CIA people are everywhere, whether they're being funded or

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<v Speaker 2>possibly even controlled by all around this guy one way

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<v Speaker 2>or another. I mean, is that an unfair way to

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<v Speaker 2>remind people what court case we're talking about here?

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<v Speaker 5>No, that's perfect, That's exactly it. Okay, Yeah, So.

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<v Speaker 2>Going forward, you start looking at who's connected to who

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<v Speaker 2>he's interacting with, and uh, you know, just give us

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<v Speaker 2>an idea of a couple of the things that you

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<v Speaker 2>used to build out those relationships, if you don't mind,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you know, tell us about Okay, we found something.

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<v Speaker 2>Because obviously people have gone over this before and have

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<v Speaker 2>made some you know, pretty interesting claims sometimes with some

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<v Speaker 2>gaps in their information, sometimes with a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>misdirection because quite honestly, they had a predetermined idea it

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<v Speaker 2>seemed like to me where they wanted to go with it.

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<v Speaker 2>But there is a lot of directions that somebody could

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<v Speaker 2>travel with that information because of the array of people

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<v Speaker 2>around Oswald.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, yeah, that's correct.

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<v Speaker 6>So Lara and I we focused on maybe three, four

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<v Speaker 6>or five different people and where that information went and

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<v Speaker 6>who these people were. I'll start off with one's still Rodrigez.

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<v Speaker 6>He was a member of the CRC Cuban Revolutionary Console.

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<v Speaker 6>He was the guy that would signed the checks, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>and pay the rent for a five forty four Camp Street.

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<v Speaker 6>He knew guy Banister because you know, they shared the building. No,

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<v Speaker 6>Rodriguez admitted to knowing by Beans and all those guys.

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<v Speaker 6>That's a quote from him when he was actually interviewed.

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<v Speaker 6>He was the guy that Oswald first approached in New

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<v Speaker 6>Orleans about, you know, the Cuban exiles there. He wanted

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<v Speaker 6>to learn Oswald wanted to learn how to speak Spanish

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<v Speaker 6>because he was very interested in going to Cuba, you

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<v Speaker 6>know that whole socialist you know, Fidel Castro movement there.

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<v Speaker 6>So he approached honestill Rodriguez at the Modern School of Languages,

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<v Speaker 6>and honest Rodriguez said, you know, he started to speak,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, Russian to show up Oswald, show off I

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<v Speaker 6>was Russian was and Honesto started to speak back Russian.

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<v Speaker 6>But then he said he had to stop because Oswald's

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<v Speaker 6>Russian was so much better than his.

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<v Speaker 5>He just, you know, he said, I got lost.

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<v Speaker 6>But then Oswald also asked him, are there any other

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<v Speaker 6>local Cubans I can talk to? So he's the one

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<v Speaker 6>that gave Oswald bring Gear's address and name. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>we gave a couple of others game Frank Bartes a

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<v Speaker 6>recipia or the local people, and this is who Oswald

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<v Speaker 6>ended up going to see, you know, here Colse to

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<v Speaker 6>see bring Gear. It talks about him and says, hey,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, I could teach you know, the Cuban exiles

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<v Speaker 6>how to shoot. I'm a marine, I you know, can

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<v Speaker 6>help you guys out. And that's how originally originally first

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<v Speaker 6>approached bring Gear. But then we all know about him

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<v Speaker 6>passing out leaflets later on, and you know, in fair

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<v Speaker 6>play for Cuba literature, and then.

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<v Speaker 5>That's when uh who is it? Uh?

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<v Speaker 6>Celzo Hernandez actually you know, went back to Kyles Springeer

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<v Speaker 6>and said, hey, you know this guy that was in

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<v Speaker 6>here before, he's outpassing pro you know, Castro literature. Right,

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<v Speaker 6>So that was one connection.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, if you don't mind, I want to pause

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<v Speaker 2>with you for a moment and go to Larry for

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<v Speaker 2>some context here, because this is the incident where you know,

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<v Speaker 2>again we do know about it, but Oswald hands over

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<v Speaker 2>his marine handbook and all of that is sort of

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<v Speaker 2>like a symbolic pledge I want to be on your side. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 2>he goes out in the street and hands out leaplets

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<v Speaker 2>that are pro castro, which doesn't fly well with these guys.

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<v Speaker 2>How do we put this in context what David's talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Larry.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, a couple of things.

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<v Speaker 4>The timeline's very important, and I think we often gloss

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<v Speaker 4>over the timeline in New Orleans, just as we do

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes the larger timeline, but before one thing so that

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<v Speaker 4>everyone understands. The book that we're talking about that has

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<v Speaker 4>the additional information is the paperback version. And just to

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<v Speaker 4>explain and Chuck you had asked about this, the point

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<v Speaker 4>is normally the publisher issues the paperback about six months

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<v Speaker 4>or twelve months after the hardcover comes out right, And

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<v Speaker 4>in this case, what really drove this whole process was

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<v Speaker 4>the document releases. We knew that we wanted to look

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<v Speaker 4>into this, and suddenly we were seeing new documents, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>a year ago that show a much different connection between

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<v Speaker 4>New Orleans and Miami than we'd ever seen before, much

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<v Speaker 4>more in depth, involving different characters. There's just a much

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<v Speaker 4>broader knowledge, and so that's what led David and I

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<v Speaker 4>to work up this new material just context for the book.

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<v Speaker 4>But that's why it's coming in that paperback edition. So

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<v Speaker 4>if you want to find it, it's in the paperback.

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<v Speaker 4>And then once the paperback is actually available, the publisher

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<v Speaker 4>says they're going to put update the kindle to have

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<v Speaker 4>it as well. But that's just a little backstory there.

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<v Speaker 4>But the context for this and the timeline that's important

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<v Speaker 4>for Oswald is there's been a lot of discussion about

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<v Speaker 4>Oswald and bring here and the leaf linting, the incident

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<v Speaker 4>and the dre and who did the Dr Tael and

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<v Speaker 4>who did in the Dr Tael and joy EDI's that

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<v Speaker 4>whole storyline. That's not the primary storyline that we follow

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<v Speaker 4>in this new information as cheap and Revenuelutionary Council people,

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<v Speaker 4>and the reason it's not is we found something common.

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<v Speaker 3>In all of them.

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<v Speaker 4>As soon as Oswald is arrest, has this hearing, he

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<v Speaker 4>gets fine, he spends a night in jail, gets fined,

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<v Speaker 4>He comes out. The next thing he does is contact

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<v Speaker 4>the FBI and offer to provide information on this covert

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<v Speaker 4>fair play for Cuba committee, and so like the next day,

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<v Speaker 4>Oswald is lying about what he's doing in New Orleans.

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<v Speaker 4>He's lying about who he's contacting. This is really interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>Oswald starts lying. The interesting thing is the people that

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<v Speaker 4>are in that hearing with Oswald, the old school CRC

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<v Speaker 4>people start line too. A matter of fact, when the

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<v Speaker 4>FBI comes back to Bartes and said, did you ever

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<v Speaker 4>you know we're investigating this to the Harvey Osweald, because

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<v Speaker 4>you know, we're coming kind of concerned that maybe didn't

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<v Speaker 4>tell us the whole story of the truth.

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<v Speaker 3>Artis says, I don't know who you're talking about. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know Oswald.

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<v Speaker 4>Barnes, who is an FBI and CIA source cleared as

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<v Speaker 4>a source and who actually will become operational with the CIA,

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<v Speaker 4>lies to the FBI. So one thing that context wise,

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<v Speaker 4>I think in the supporting is what David and I

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<v Speaker 4>started looking at all of this information, and the really

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<v Speaker 4>important point is everybody starts lying to every.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Larry, do me a favor. Larry mute upon startling. Yeah, Larry,

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<v Speaker 2>do me a favor. Larry, mute up for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of seconds, because your compression is breaking down a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to make sure people hear what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 2>So just mute up for a couple seconds. Let me talk,

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<v Speaker 2>and just throw a little bit of context into this

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<v Speaker 2>as well, because David brought up you know that Oswalt's

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<v Speaker 2>Russian was been, you know, a little bit too advance

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<v Speaker 2>for somebody who was talking to Well, that would obviously

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<v Speaker 2>be because he had just been in the Soviet Union

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<v Speaker 2>not long before what was right in Minsk, so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he had had a bit of use of the Russian language,

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<v Speaker 2>I would think while he was there, although according to

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<v Speaker 2>some people he spent a lot of time speaking English,

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<v Speaker 2>but obviously he picked up some. But this is fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>because he's not only lying about things, and other people

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<v Speaker 2>are seeming to fall in line with the same lies

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<v Speaker 2>simultaneously on the record, but he's telling them I want

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<v Speaker 2>to tell you about this covert fair Play for Cuba

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<v Speaker 2>Committee thing, and the funny part again, as we know

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<v Speaker 2>historically from the record, there was no official fair Play

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<v Speaker 2>for Cuba Committee in New Orleans. He's got a fake

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<v Speaker 2>chapter with some fake president he claims to be the

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<v Speaker 2>treasurer in radio and TV interviews of this chapter of

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<v Speaker 2>the fair Play for Cuba Committee that doesn't exist, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's rating on it, the thing that he created out

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<v Speaker 2>of thin air, and he's rating on it to the

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<v Speaker 2>FEDS even though he's the one who actually created it

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<v Speaker 2>on paper and didn't actually go through the process of

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<v Speaker 2>creating a fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans realistically.

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<v Speaker 2>So there you go for part of the context on this.

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<v Speaker 2>But also I think it's fascinating what you guys discover

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<v Speaker 2>regarding how these things do sort of begin to make sense.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when everybody starts to tell the same story,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not necessarily an indication of the truth, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>an indication of coordination. In any criminal investigation, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>any any detective will tell you this. As soon as

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<v Speaker 2>you see people telling the same consistent lies and sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>using the same wording and everything else, you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>got to start digging up on stuff because it's usually

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<v Speaker 2>not Oh gee, since their stories matched, they must be true,

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<v Speaker 2>which you know, most normal people would think of. But

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<v Speaker 2>what was happening there in New Orleans was not very normal.

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<v Speaker 2>So Larry, if you could continue to give some context. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully your compression is better, because I don't want you

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<v Speaker 2>breaking up while you're explaining this. Go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>The point is that there are different sets of people

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<v Speaker 4>lying about Oswald, Right, you had these Cuban Revolutionary Council

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<v Speaker 4>members and their line if someone approaches them, But it

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<v Speaker 4>goes further than that.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that.

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<v Speaker 4>One of their long term associates named Carlos Carraga went

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<v Speaker 4>to visit Learvy Oswald and presented himself as a Castor supporter.

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<v Speaker 4>Oswald was impressed.

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<v Speaker 3>He liked it.

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<v Speaker 4>He was looking for people fellow trail. Garaga comes back

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<v Speaker 4>and tells everybody, you know, I can talk to this guy.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, we're inside. So we've got this group of

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<v Speaker 4>people who essentially have penetrated Oswell in our position to

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<v Speaker 4>talk to him, you know, and get him to agree

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<v Speaker 4>with him. And they're on his side, which is very interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>But they don't report that to the FBI, They don't

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<v Speaker 4>report it to the CIA, Nobody follows along with the story.

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<v Speaker 4>This is at the same time this is going on,

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<v Speaker 4>the FBI is treating Oswald as a potential source because

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<v Speaker 4>he's providing them information, right, And an interesting and interesting

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<v Speaker 4>piece of speculation for that that David's brought up.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we've got.

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<v Speaker 4>Five to four to four Camp Street, Well that's a

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<v Speaker 4>that's the number that relates to the CRC and you know,

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<v Speaker 4>and the building that they rented. And you know, Ernesto

379
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.880
<v Speaker 4>has the keys to the building, perhaps he loans, but

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<v Speaker 4>Oswell get into the building, use it for office for

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<v Speaker 4>a short period of time. You know, Banister knows this.

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<v Speaker 4>Perhaps Warren de Burris, the subversive disc FBI agent in

383
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:23.039
<v Speaker 4>New Orleans who's in contact with Banister, we know that

384
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.799
<v Speaker 4>passes on the word that you know, Oswell's he's our guy.

385
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:32.119
<v Speaker 4>He's helping us provide information on the FPCC. So maybe

386
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.400
<v Speaker 4>you should I shouldn't go beat him up, you know,

387
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.359
<v Speaker 4>let him alone.

388
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:36.559
<v Speaker 3>He's one of our guys.

389
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.759
<v Speaker 4>Which is an interesting thing that happens because after that

390
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:44.440
<v Speaker 4>first incident where bring gear and confronts him in the

391
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.880
<v Speaker 4>street and they almost get physical Oswell comes back and

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00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.599
<v Speaker 4>does his big leafleting scene on the street with TV

393
00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.960
<v Speaker 4>cameras and other guys that he hires, and the Cubans

394
00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:58.839
<v Speaker 4>are absent now this time.

395
00:22:58.880 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 3>They don't even show up.

396
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 4>No placards, no signs, no punching out Oswald. Nobody meets

397
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.680
<v Speaker 4>them in it. You know, it's like everybody is hands.

398
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.359
<v Speaker 2>Off Oswald right now, Larry.

399
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.559
<v Speaker 3>And everybody is those guys.

400
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Those guys are not far away either. It's not like

401
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a big distance. They could have easily taken a

402
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:19.839
<v Speaker 2>stroll over there. Looks like to me. And let's not

403
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 2>forget about those guys he hired from the temp agency

404
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.240
<v Speaker 2>that were all dressed kind of like him, with the

405
00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 2>white T shirt, with the white button down shirt and

406
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.160
<v Speaker 2>all right, and the ties. I always find that comical.

407
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's that imagery was also made even more infamous

408
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:40.079
<v Speaker 2>when you know, Donald Trump was jumping onto the theory

409
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.160
<v Speaker 2>about what was it Ted Cruz's father being there. That

410
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.920
<v Speaker 2>was one of the images used right during that leafletting incident. Larry,

411
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.839
<v Speaker 2>Sorry sorry to bring that up, but well it is.

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00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:54.200
<v Speaker 4>And we now know that that image was actually constructed

413
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<v Speaker 4>by Oswald because Oswald gave him their durist instructions and

414
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:03.240
<v Speaker 4>when he was asked and interviewed, he told people that

415
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.519
<v Speaker 4>they were a group of students from a local college

416
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.079
<v Speaker 4>that we're demonstrating. So Oswald, you know, this is this

417
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.319
<v Speaker 4>is another part of his creativity. This is a student

418
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:17.319
<v Speaker 4>organization demonstrating. And when we're done and the FBI is

419
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.519
<v Speaker 4>looking for this, organizations like nope, can't find it. And

420
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:27.880
<v Speaker 4>it was artificial, but that was very intentional on Oswald's part, right,

421
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 4>all of a sudden after that, his hands off Oswald

422
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:35.400
<v Speaker 4>right until the FBI starts looking for him again.

423
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, no, that's great with that. I want to

424
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.880
<v Speaker 2>turn it back over to David if you don't mind,

425
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.880
<v Speaker 2>because and I find this comical because again he's got

426
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.400
<v Speaker 2>guys that need a day's work from the temp agency.

427
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.759
<v Speaker 2>He's got them out there. He's created this whole image,

428
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 2>he's created the fig chapter. I mean, there's a bit

429
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.440
<v Speaker 2>of work going into this, you know, and it's being

430
00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>presented a certain way and then it's being reported different way.

431
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.519
<v Speaker 2>You know what, if you don't mind, what did you

432
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.759
<v Speaker 2>discover about that? And you know what it is? This guy,

433
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is a lot of work for somebody

434
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:15.359
<v Speaker 2>who was, you know, supposedly just recruiting students allegedly right

435
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.000
<v Speaker 2>working out of that building. By the way, that building

436
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.839
<v Speaker 2>it's that that kind of like it's dramatized in JFK

437
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 2>with the two entrances and all that. That building has

438
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.039
<v Speaker 2>been knocked down since, I believe, but it did exist

439
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>and pretty much the way it was dramatized in that film,

440
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>although there's a couple other weird things going on in

441
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.279
<v Speaker 2>those scenes, but pay no attention to that. There is

442
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.519
<v Speaker 2>something there to it. Is there anything new that you

443
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.480
<v Speaker 2>discovered about this nexus, David that you'd like to share

444
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:46.559
<v Speaker 2>here just a little bit.

445
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:53.799
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know, we're talking about Anestawardriguez. We'll talk about him, Frank,

446
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Speaker 6>Frank Bartez and Augustine greetadd a little bit in the

447
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:02.400
<v Speaker 6>connections to Oswald Honestill Rodriguez, who was you know he

448
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.680
<v Speaker 6>was him and his father were both members of the CRC,

449
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.079
<v Speaker 6>and so was Kylo Springear. A lot of people don't

450
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:10.200
<v Speaker 6>know that he was one of the original members of

451
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:13.279
<v Speaker 6>the CRC before he left to join the DR, the

452
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:18.519
<v Speaker 6>Student Revolutionary Directorate, and he was close to all these guys,

453
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:22.559
<v Speaker 6>I mean, they were friends Arnesta Rodriguez and Kyle Springier

454
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 6>used to go to John Birch Society meetings together. They

455
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.799
<v Speaker 6>were both FBI informants, and these guys hung out together.

456
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.319
<v Speaker 6>It's my point, but I'm trying to get to so

457
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:37.599
<v Speaker 6>he was no stranger to these guys. Honesto. Rodriguez has

458
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.480
<v Speaker 6>an interesting brother. I'm not sure if anybody's how many

459
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.799
<v Speaker 6>people aware of it, but his brother, Emilio Rodriguez, used

460
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 6>to work with Honesta at the Modern Language Institute, the

461
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:51.880
<v Speaker 6>Burlet's School, and he was in Havana and he got

462
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.079
<v Speaker 6>recruited by the CIA. He volunteered, he wanted to join,

463
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.559
<v Speaker 6>and his original case officer recruiter was Henry Hecksher, who

464
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.160
<v Speaker 6>ended up, you know, being the case officer for them

465
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 6>World Project. So Emilio and that'sa his brother was hired

466
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.039
<v Speaker 6>by the CIA, and he worked closely with David Morales

467
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.720
<v Speaker 6>and Tony Swozza, and you know, this guy was one

468
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.079
<v Speaker 6>of the main stay behind guys that had agents.

469
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.640
<v Speaker 5>Working for him. Man, he was as connected as can be.

470
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.440
<v Speaker 2>In case somebody doesn't know, David, what is M World

471
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:29.599
<v Speaker 2>or AM World? Please?

472
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 5>Just in case somebody it is.

473
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:39.000
<v Speaker 6>Sure it was run by Manuel Ardema who was He

474
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.640
<v Speaker 6>was backed by the CIA. It was supposed to be

475
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:46.720
<v Speaker 6>an autonomous operation where they were gonna go off no off,

476
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 6>out of the United States and work in Latin America

477
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:53.359
<v Speaker 6>and Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica where they set up camps

478
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 6>and they were going to invade Cuba and the plan

479
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:57.640
<v Speaker 6>and you sometimes.

480
00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Are you the listener might have heard that name pronounceable

481
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>for our teammate. Just just for the record, but Artema, right,

482
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:07.160
<v Speaker 2>and we're talking about the same guy. Okay, No, I

483
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:08.880
<v Speaker 2>just want to make sure people know because I know

484
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.240
<v Speaker 2>that that's commonly the way it's pronounced, and I'm not

485
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>even certain which way is correct, but just just for

486
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.400
<v Speaker 2>a point of reference.

487
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:21.039
<v Speaker 6>Sorry, go ahead, So you Emilio. Let's long story short.

488
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:25.240
<v Speaker 6>He was very connected, very high up at JM Wave

489
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:30.359
<v Speaker 6>worked for a counter intel, foreign intel and covert action.

490
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.559
<v Speaker 6>So he was all across the board trying to recruit

491
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.200
<v Speaker 6>assets for the CIA. So he was CIA. That was

492
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:43.519
<v Speaker 6>no Nesto's brother who knew Oswalt, you know, so it's

493
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 6>pretty interesting. Frank Bartes was a member of the CRC.

494
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.279
<v Speaker 6>He was the actual delegate. He replaced a lot of people.

495
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.960
<v Speaker 6>Remember Sergio Lacachia Smith. You know that's been names been

496
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.240
<v Speaker 6>around quite a bit with the old Garrison investigator. He

497
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:04.640
<v Speaker 6>get booted from the CRC in sixty one and he's

498
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 6>replaced by Lewis Ravel, who stuck around for a little while,

499
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.960
<v Speaker 6>and Rebell quit and was replaced by Frank Francisco Bartes.

500
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.240
<v Speaker 6>So Bartes was a delegate in New Orleans and his

501
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:23.920
<v Speaker 6>assistant delegate was Sylvia Odio's uncle, Augustine Guiton. These guys

502
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.440
<v Speaker 6>were close, That's the point I was getting at. And

503
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.720
<v Speaker 6>they were all at Oswald's you know, court appearents, even

504
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:35.480
<v Speaker 6>Sylvia Odio's uncle. They knew Oswald well. And Frank Bartees

505
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.720
<v Speaker 6>had a confrontation outside the courtroom with Lee Oswald. A

506
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.799
<v Speaker 6>month later, the FBI says to Frank Bartes, you know,

507
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.480
<v Speaker 6>we're trying to track down Lee Oswald.

508
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.200
<v Speaker 5>Do you know him? Do you know?

509
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.359
<v Speaker 6>Because I don't know, never met him, never saw him

510
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.319
<v Speaker 6>before in my life. So that's when we figure Oswald

511
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.200
<v Speaker 6>was in play. This was September tenth, nineteen sixty three.

512
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.480
<v Speaker 6>The FBI talked from you know this documentation on he goes, no,

513
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.000
<v Speaker 6>I don't know Oswald, is you know he's bullshitting there,

514
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 6>you know, diary context.

515
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, And I think what David has

516
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:13.039
<v Speaker 3>just described. Just think about this.

517
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.960
<v Speaker 4>If ten years ago, not just Dia Garrison, but even

518
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 4>if ten years ago we had realized that the three

519
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:24.200
<v Speaker 4>guys in the courtroom with Oswald were all Sea Ice

520
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:30.440
<v Speaker 4>horss FBI informants, and that they all had connections like

521
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.880
<v Speaker 4>Arnie Stowe and Bartes and Guitar all had connections to

522
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:41.839
<v Speaker 4>people in special affairs in the Cuba project at Jahim Wave,

523
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:44.880
<v Speaker 4>we would have blown our minds. We did not know that,

524
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.960
<v Speaker 4>nobody knew that at that point in time. We did

525
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:54.799
<v Speaker 4>not know that guitar Sylvia Odio's uncle was connected to

526
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.319
<v Speaker 4>Antonio Verona. Antonio Verona at that time was the acting

527
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 4>head of the Cuban Revolutionary Council in fall of sixty three,

528
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:07.960
<v Speaker 4>and Verona had been part of the long term CIA

529
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:13.160
<v Speaker 4>assassination project targeting Castro that had started out in nineteen

530
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 4>sixty one and had gone on under with you know,

531
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:24.400
<v Speaker 4>David Morales, William Harvey Roselli, all of these people that

532
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:27.079
<v Speaker 4>are common to us. You know that we know, we

533
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.720
<v Speaker 4>did not have no idea that there's this connection through

534
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.480
<v Speaker 4>Verona to this guy who's in the courtroom with Lee

535
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 4>Harvey Oswald. These people are talking. They're close enough socially

536
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 4>so that Verona comes to New Orleans and visits and

537
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:50.480
<v Speaker 4>stays with guitar in his home. In November of nineteen

538
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:55.119
<v Speaker 4>sixty three, Bartes goes to New or goes to Miami,

539
00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:01.000
<v Speaker 4>and they're all socially connected. This connection between New Orleans

540
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:06.519
<v Speaker 4>and Miami is far deeper and darker in a way

541
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:11.240
<v Speaker 4>than we had ever imagined. That this is shocking news,

542
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.960
<v Speaker 4>and this is one of the things that led us

543
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:18.319
<v Speaker 4>to explore. As David just said, you know, once everybody

544
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:23.039
<v Speaker 4>starts lying, somebody's decided that there's you know, there's a

545
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.680
<v Speaker 4>hand being played, and you've got to start you know

546
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:31.039
<v Speaker 4>who's playing what hand. Clearly, these Cubans in Miami are

547
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.119
<v Speaker 4>involved in playing some kind of a hand with.

548
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 3>Lee Harvey Oswell.

549
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:39.240
<v Speaker 4>And and they actually even have access to Oswald. They've

550
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:43.119
<v Speaker 4>got someone who can go visit him, who he trusts

551
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 4>as a Feller traveler. Now they can make their introductions.

552
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 2>So somebody outside of all this research might ask, you know, look,

553
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.359
<v Speaker 2>these guys are making the time to show up in court,

554
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>which is not something. You know, people see this all

555
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.400
<v Speaker 2>the time in this case and they go, oh, well,

556
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 2>so the guys in court. I mean, it's it's there's

557
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.240
<v Speaker 2>a purpose for this. What would be the general way

558
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.319
<v Speaker 2>to describe what this effort is and does it really

559
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 2>center on Oswald or is it just that he's part

560
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:17.119
<v Speaker 2>of a greater plan that we have, you know, some

561
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.759
<v Speaker 2>insight into now where Oswald is a possible player, but

562
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.359
<v Speaker 2>he's not at the center of anything. I mean, how

563
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 2>how would you explain that to somebody? You know, he

564
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:30.319
<v Speaker 2>hasn't read the book yet.

565
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.240
<v Speaker 4>That's where people start to make a mistake, Chuck, because

566
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 4>you start looking for this special plan. And that's why

567
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 4>the time whining is so so important, because it's it's evolutionary.

568
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:46.079
<v Speaker 4>You know, Oswald is of interest because Oswald's in New

569
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.960
<v Speaker 4>Orleans and he's doing things that are of interest to

570
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:53.039
<v Speaker 4>these people. And they've been they've been playing this anti

571
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:54.720
<v Speaker 4>Castro game for years now.

572
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:55.920
<v Speaker 3>They are old school.

573
00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:04.240
<v Speaker 4>The guitar is actually has operational approval with the CIA

574
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:08.440
<v Speaker 4>to be a spotter and to look for people to

575
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.639
<v Speaker 4>recruit into anty castro activities, look in New Orleans, in Cuba.

576
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.280
<v Speaker 4>He's to spot Cuba these people are involved in this

577
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.079
<v Speaker 4>anti Castro game.

578
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.159
<v Speaker 3>So at this point in time, Oswell is just of interest.

579
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:22.800
<v Speaker 3>You know, who is he?

580
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.079
<v Speaker 4>Let's learn about them, Let's find out something. Otherwise they

581
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.360
<v Speaker 4>would not have shown their hand by going to court.

582
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.920
<v Speaker 4>They're all trying to find out who Oswell really is,

583
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 4>what is his game, and can we bring him into

584
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.719
<v Speaker 4>our game? And I think it It really troubles me

585
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 4>that people immediately jump to the fact that this must

586
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.760
<v Speaker 4>be something that's part of something already going on, where

587
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.760
<v Speaker 4>in fact, it's more likely it's part of something that's developmental.

588
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.599
<v Speaker 4>And Oswell is going to leave New Orleans, and Oswell

589
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.440
<v Speaker 4>is going to go, you know, to Mexico City, but

590
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Oswall likely is going to go to sel the audios

591
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.599
<v Speaker 4>and to mccowan's and the sequence events.

592
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:07.679
<v Speaker 3>I guess what I'm trying to get across.

593
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.079
<v Speaker 4>And David can say if he agrees or not, is

594
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:14.519
<v Speaker 4>we see it as evolutionary, it's not fixed in stone.

595
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 4>At the time they're in court, they're looking at Oswald,

596
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 4>Oswell's looking back at them.

597
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 3>You know, who's playing what game with who?

598
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 4>What we do know is they all begin within thirty

599
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:34.480
<v Speaker 4>days to start lying about what they know about Lee

600
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:40.599
<v Speaker 4>Harvey Oswald. We know that Qurraga lied under polygraph with

601
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 4>Garrison about Oswald and Rifle and Oswald a conspiracy. You know,

602
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:51.800
<v Speaker 4>it's this lies that become important, you know, And when

603
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 4>do they start telling them and they don't tell I

604
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:56.679
<v Speaker 4>mean they're they're in court and open court and they're

605
00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:00.119
<v Speaker 4>in video footage. David's got captures of it. So at

606
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:03.440
<v Speaker 4>that point in time, there's nothing to be exposed. But

607
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:08.159
<v Speaker 4>within thirty days there's something that they're beginning to hide.

608
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>Right, So David, is this an accurate and fair representation

609
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:15.000
<v Speaker 2>of the pattern you see emerging? And what would you

610
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:18.960
<v Speaker 2>add to that pattern that you're recognizing now in this data,

611
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 2>especially with the new documentation being added.

612
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:25.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, one hundred percent agree.

613
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.480
<v Speaker 6>So just a little bit of context. Frank Bartes, you know,

614
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 6>the head of the New Orleans CRC, we'ld have meetings

615
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:39.880
<v Speaker 6>at his business office and sometimes at his home with

616
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 6>Augustine Gree Todd, Nesta Rodriguez, Carlos Bringeier would sometimes show

617
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:48.440
<v Speaker 6>up and a couple other guys, and the guy who

618
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.079
<v Speaker 6>they considered that liaison between the various Cuban groups was

619
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 6>Carlos Kroga so we figured these guys sent Karoga supposedly

620
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.320
<v Speaker 6>Bringier to go see how to pretend he's uh that

621
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:06.079
<v Speaker 6>Kroga was pro castro and he's interested in the fair

622
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:09.199
<v Speaker 6>Play for Cuba Committee. Oswald gives them, you know, an

623
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 6>application to become a member of the fair Play for

624
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.599
<v Speaker 6>Cuba Committee, gives them a bunch of leaflets the pass out.

625
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.599
<v Speaker 6>So they're really playing Oswald at this point. So they

626
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 6>realized they can talk to Oswald as long as they

627
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.400
<v Speaker 6>pretend to be pro castro. Oswald, you know, your best buddy,

628
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.239
<v Speaker 6>you know, he'll keep talking to you.

629
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:29.599
<v Speaker 5>You know.

630
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.639
<v Speaker 6>So that's I think where they realized, if you pretend

631
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.639
<v Speaker 6>we send some more pro castro guys, the guys pretend

632
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 6>to be pro castro, we can play Oswald. And we

633
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:41.519
<v Speaker 6>go into that a little bit in the book to

634
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:44.400
<v Speaker 6>who these guys we believe were that the two guys

635
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.239
<v Speaker 6>that went to Sylvia Audios, which is huge, they were

636
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.519
<v Speaker 6>friends of Frank Bartz and that is documented. That's huge,

637
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:52.039
<v Speaker 6>I think.

638
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of documentation and who's got eyes on what With

639
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:59.920
<v Speaker 2>all of these players of interest in motion, one would

640
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.239
<v Speaker 2>start to wonder who's actually got surveillance on it? And

641
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:07.679
<v Speaker 2>are we missing somebody's reports. Are we missing some surveillance

642
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:11.719
<v Speaker 2>that should have obviously and logically been on some of

643
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:15.599
<v Speaker 2>these circumstances, some of these meetings with some of these characters,

644
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:18.400
<v Speaker 2>it should have been followed up on, because there were

645
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:23.760
<v Speaker 2>various agencies and non government agencies, let's say, of sorts,

646
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:27.000
<v Speaker 2>that should have been interested in keeping an eye on

647
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 2>all this interaction. Do you think we have stuff missing

648
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.519
<v Speaker 2>or do you think that we now have a better

649
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:38.480
<v Speaker 2>picture because of some of the reports filed in surveillance David,

650
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:40.760
<v Speaker 2>or would you like to pass that over to Larry.

651
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>That's up to you.

652
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Speaker 6>Well, I'll let Larry take a first cut at that

653
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 6>and I'll add by two cents afterwards.

654
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Yeah, So two different things going on, and that's

655
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.800
<v Speaker 4>why in the book we actually did two separate chapters.

656
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:00.920
<v Speaker 4>One chapter is how Oslo became of operationditional interest to

657
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.239
<v Speaker 4>the CIA at JM Wave, and that's a group of

658
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 4>people that are interested in him are monitoring what he's doing,

659
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.079
<v Speaker 4>but remotely. They're monitoring, largely through reports they're getting from

660
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:16.000
<v Speaker 4>the FBI. And one of the points of the new

661
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.840
<v Speaker 4>releases was shocking was to find out how much information

662
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 4>that the FBI was passing on to the CIA in

663
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.920
<v Speaker 4>Miami that Miami wasn't sharing with anybody.

664
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, for instance, I was sharing.

665
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.960
<v Speaker 2>It, yeah, sorry, Larry. For instance, on that would be

666
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:38.320
<v Speaker 2>the information about Oswald's mail being intercepted right at this

667
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's at this time that was relevant Or

668
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:44.280
<v Speaker 2>do I have that wrong somehow because I have not.

669
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:46.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, I only went over it a bit. But

670
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:48.079
<v Speaker 2>isn't that part of the equation here?

671
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 3>They have shared mail intercepts.

672
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:54.800
<v Speaker 4>But what's striking at this point in time is the

673
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.280
<v Speaker 4>most striking thing is that when Oswell shows up in

674
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 4>Mexico City, in Mexico City wants to know who this.

675
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:03.480
<v Speaker 5>Guy is.

676
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:06.199
<v Speaker 3>Headquarters.

677
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:11.719
<v Speaker 4>The information they provide is that Oswald is still in

678
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:15.639
<v Speaker 4>Russia as married to a Russian woman and may come

679
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:18.000
<v Speaker 4>back to the United States someday.

680
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:20.760
<v Speaker 3>The reason that's provided to Mexico.

681
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.719
<v Speaker 4>City is that the FBI has started to lie to

682
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.679
<v Speaker 4>itself to the extent that they've pulled all the contemporary

683
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 4>information into a special file. Now Miami station knows all

684
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.760
<v Speaker 4>of this because the FBI is telling them, and this

685
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.440
<v Speaker 4>is in new documents. They're telling them in detail. They're

686
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 4>even passing on host these information from Dallas to Miami,

687
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:49.440
<v Speaker 4>but miam is not telling anybody about that, certainly not

688
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:55.280
<v Speaker 4>Mexico City. So that's probably the biggest example of who's

689
00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.400
<v Speaker 4>not sharing information. But then that's in the CIA, and

690
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:04.440
<v Speaker 4>that's in Miami. In New Orleans, it's these Cubans who

691
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:09.719
<v Speaker 4>aren't sharing information locally with the FBI. They're flatlined to them,

692
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 4>and they're all CIA sources, and ostensibly they're not sharing

693
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.440
<v Speaker 4>anything with the CIA. If you want to talk about

694
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:24.719
<v Speaker 4>missing paper trails, it's like, did mister Rodriguez and New

695
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:28.239
<v Speaker 4>Orleans not talk to his brother and Emilio about this

696
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 4>new you know America next marine CIA supporter of Castro.

697
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:38.039
<v Speaker 4>Did they not have this dialogue when they talk. We

698
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 4>don't have any document that says they did.

699
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:45.519
<v Speaker 3>Did Guitar put a report.

700
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:48.119
<v Speaker 4>To his domestic ops contact and he did have a

701
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:50.639
<v Speaker 4>domestic ops contact about Oswald?

702
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.159
<v Speaker 3>We don't have that report.

703
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.840
<v Speaker 4>The guys, it's like they're two different groups that are

704
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:01.119
<v Speaker 4>withholding information, specialist affair staff in Miami and the old

705
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:07.920
<v Speaker 4>school CRC guys in New Orleans. The tipping point, the

706
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.199
<v Speaker 4>cross point among all of them, though may well be

707
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:19.360
<v Speaker 4>Antonio Verona, who knows both sets of players, and especially

708
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.559
<v Speaker 4>in regard to guitar and Sylvia odio and what starts

709
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:26.760
<v Speaker 4>to happen later. David can expand, but I think that's

710
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.519
<v Speaker 4>the point, Chuck. There are two groups that begin to

711
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:32.480
<v Speaker 4>withhold information. That's why there are two chapters in the book,

712
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 4>because we felt we had to treat them separately as

713
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:41.039
<v Speaker 4>two different sets of people with separate operational interest in Oswald.

714
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Right now, look, we're going to quickly approach the last

715
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.000
<v Speaker 2>ten minutes of our discussion here, so I want to

716
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:50.440
<v Speaker 2>give you and David both a chance to round out.

717
00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.920
<v Speaker 2>We've gone in depth on a few things here, but

718
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:56.400
<v Speaker 2>to sort of round out the rest of the teaser,

719
00:42:56.440 --> 00:43:00.400
<v Speaker 2>if you will. For the update on the book, I

720
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:02.480
<v Speaker 2>really want people to pick it up. And yes, indeed

721
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.079
<v Speaker 2>it is the paperback version, and I am lucky enough

722
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.920
<v Speaker 2>to have one in my hands. I'm extremely happy with that,

723
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.719
<v Speaker 2>and I know if you guys go and get this

724
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.840
<v Speaker 2>one you will be too. Even if you have the

725
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:18.599
<v Speaker 2>original one, you'll be very happy with this one. Also.

726
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.400
<v Speaker 2>For some reason, I don't know what they did with

727
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:22.800
<v Speaker 2>the quality of the pages, but I'm finding this one

728
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:27.000
<v Speaker 2>easier to read than the hardcover The hardcover was not bad,

729
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.960
<v Speaker 2>but or the previous version, I can't even remember if

730
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:31.719
<v Speaker 2>it's got a hardcover on it, but it wasn't bad.

731
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 2>But this one's actually a little easier to read, too,

732
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:39.880
<v Speaker 2>so there's a little inside extra on it, David. So overall,

733
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:44.119
<v Speaker 2>if we were to sort of summarize here about especially

734
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.159
<v Speaker 2>the addition, but the whole thing is great, and if

735
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.639
<v Speaker 2>you haven't picked it up, definitely get the one with

736
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:54.039
<v Speaker 2>the update for sure. I don't know what else was changed, honestly,

737
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:57.559
<v Speaker 2>because I really wanted to see what was added myself.

738
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:00.280
<v Speaker 2>But if you could, you know, give us a sort

739
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.079
<v Speaker 2>of summation on what's really important or the most important

740
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.440
<v Speaker 2>things that people might be able to learn or to

741
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:10.039
<v Speaker 2>glean from this or to begin to understand. I mean,

742
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.960
<v Speaker 2>as always this subject matter and the subject of Lee

743
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Oswald also, which I find to be separate from

744
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:20.599
<v Speaker 2>the assassination to some decree, because I don't for a

745
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Speaker 2>second think this is your culprit, but is a fascinating

746
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:28.559
<v Speaker 2>character and reveals a lot of other things about the

747
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 2>national security state, and it's a status quo at the time,

748
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:37.280
<v Speaker 2>and some of its weird and strange off road adventures

749
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:40.599
<v Speaker 2>let's call them from the nineteen sixties. You can learn

750
00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:43.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot from the study of Oswald in the way

751
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:47.440
<v Speaker 2>things were going on around him, to him and virtually

752
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:51.760
<v Speaker 2>or actually not virtually, but what do I mean to say,

753
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:55.519
<v Speaker 2>ultimately what ended up happening to him in the end,

754
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.679
<v Speaker 2>and the way it was handled and everything else. Plus

755
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.559
<v Speaker 2>the media ever after gives you a lot of insight

756
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:03.440
<v Speaker 2>into the behavior of the national security state, which by

757
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the way, is Larry Hancock's specialty. But anyways, David, on

758
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 2>this subject, though, what would be the great teaser here,

759
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.679
<v Speaker 2>something new that people would pick up on from the

760
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.440
<v Speaker 2>addition that you'd like to point them to.

761
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 5>So many things.

762
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:24.119
<v Speaker 6>I mean, John Newman described it best. You got an

763
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:27.960
<v Speaker 6>out of focus puzzle with pieces missing. I think we

764
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:30.280
<v Speaker 6>put a few of these pieces in maybe a little

765
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 6>bit more in focus, but there's still a lot missing

766
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:35.239
<v Speaker 6>that we don't know and we're still trying to figure out,

767
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:37.480
<v Speaker 6>and we're going to continue, you know, to keep plugging

768
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 6>away at this. What I got too from it is

769
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.079
<v Speaker 6>a CIA wasn't talking to the CIA, and a lot

770
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.559
<v Speaker 6>of things too, And you know that's what we look

771
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.199
<v Speaker 6>at here, like you had the special affair of staff,

772
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 6>which was the Cuba project. These guys focus on Cuba.

773
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:56.079
<v Speaker 6>They weren't talking to Mexico City. You know, as far

774
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:58.800
<v Speaker 6>as what was going on with the Oswald, Mexico Cities

775
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:02.840
<v Speaker 6>was in the dark. Who is this guy? But Special

776
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.159
<v Speaker 6>Affairs staff they knew who he was. They again the

777
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.480
<v Speaker 6>reports they get signing off on them. You know, this

778
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:10.400
<v Speaker 6>is a good quote here that we use in the

779
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:13.559
<v Speaker 6>book too. And John Newman talked to Jane Roman, who

780
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:16.880
<v Speaker 6>was the CIA counter intelligence liaison and she was looking

781
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.360
<v Speaker 6>at Oswald's file. She was, uh, Newman, as is this

782
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.000
<v Speaker 6>indicative of some sort of operational interest in Oswald's file?

783
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:27.119
<v Speaker 6>In Rome says yes, to me, it's indicative of keen

784
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.480
<v Speaker 6>interest in Oswald held very closely on the need to

785
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.480
<v Speaker 6>know basis by sas Special Affairs staff staff. They thought

786
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.800
<v Speaker 6>that somehow they can make some use of Oswald. Boom,

787
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.679
<v Speaker 6>there it is, you know, and they weren't talking to

788
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:42.400
<v Speaker 6>Mexico City.

789
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:43.559
<v Speaker 5>What they're trying to do with Oswald?

790
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.239
<v Speaker 6>The Special Affairs Cuban staff, and we go into that

791
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:49.440
<v Speaker 6>quite a bit of what we think they were trying

792
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.519
<v Speaker 6>to do. You know, what would the operational interest in

793
00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.320
<v Speaker 6>Oswald was in one of the chapters we go in.

794
00:46:56.119 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Also, David, would it be fair or unfair to say

795
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.239
<v Speaker 2>that in some cases as you could almost look at

796
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:07.920
<v Speaker 2>jmwave as an island onto itself somewhat separational, separated, excuse me,

797
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 2>from the operational aspects of the interconnectivity of the agency.

798
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:16.000
<v Speaker 2>At the time, Jmwave was doing stuff that they weren't

799
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:20.719
<v Speaker 2>necessarily ready to share with the entire rest of the

800
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:21.800
<v Speaker 2>body of the CIA.

801
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:22.639
<v Speaker 5>Sometimes.

802
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:25.960
<v Speaker 2>And is this something that you saw coming up when

803
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.960
<v Speaker 2>it comes to the character of Lee Harvey Oswald. Obviously

804
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.599
<v Speaker 2>there were other things going on to jmwave, But what

805
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:33.920
<v Speaker 2>about the island onto itself concept?

806
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.239
<v Speaker 5>What do you think about?

807
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:40.559
<v Speaker 6>Oh, yeah, these guys were actually there was groups and

808
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:43.800
<v Speaker 6>clicks within jmwave too that just talked with each other.

809
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.239
<v Speaker 6>I mean William Harvey when he used to go when

810
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.800
<v Speaker 6>tasks w he'd go to Jmwave. He only wanted to

811
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:54.000
<v Speaker 6>talk to the paramilitary guys, David Morales in particular. So

812
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:57.159
<v Speaker 6>that shows you do you want to talk to your

813
00:47:57.159 --> 00:47:59.719
<v Speaker 6>foreign intelligence guys? And this is you know from his

814
00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:05.840
<v Speaker 6>book is bio Harvey's bio. So I mean, yeah, JAM

815
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.760
<v Speaker 6>wave had its own small little click there of the

816
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:11.960
<v Speaker 6>paramilitary guys, Rip Robinson, Gratson Lynch, Dave Morales who was

817
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:12.639
<v Speaker 6>their boss.

818
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And I found that people have actually taken

819
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 2>special interest in Rip Roberts lately, you know, as of late,

820
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I should say not lately, but you know, the finding

821
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 2>him to be a much more interesting character than they

822
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:28.239
<v Speaker 2>might have thought of in the past. I think partially

823
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:31.159
<v Speaker 2>due to your guys work, and maybe a couple of

824
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 2>other people have actually kicked over stone or two regarding

825
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:40.440
<v Speaker 2>that guy, and definitely worthy of further exploration. Larry, if

826
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.239
<v Speaker 2>you don't mind a similar question to you about you know,

827
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.840
<v Speaker 2>could you summarize what is really something that could be

828
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.840
<v Speaker 2>gleaned from this Maybe it's slightly different answer from what

829
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:52.679
<v Speaker 2>you know David gave, maybe, or if you just want

830
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:55.960
<v Speaker 2>to concur that's fine. But since we're, you know, rounding

831
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:58.239
<v Speaker 2>out to about the end of our hour here, I

832
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.519
<v Speaker 2>wanted to give you a chance to tell, well, what

833
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:03.000
<v Speaker 2>what is new and what is of interest here in

834
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.239
<v Speaker 2>the new edition. Although I tell you again the entire book,

835
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.639
<v Speaker 2>not you, Larry, but you listening, that the entire book

836
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:13.719
<v Speaker 2>is worthy of a reference material in and of itself

837
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:17.119
<v Speaker 2>on your shelf. And I don't say that about too

838
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:21.679
<v Speaker 2>many JFK books at all, although I got to say,

839
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I want to read, well, I want to read doctor

840
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Douglas's book, The New One, and I haven't gotten a

841
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.880
<v Speaker 2>copy of that yet and haven't been able to get

842
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.559
<v Speaker 2>in touch with James Douglas. But you know there's another

843
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:37.079
<v Speaker 2>guy who puts things in context. But Larry another day,

844
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe we'll talk about that, and maybe I'll talk about

845
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:42.519
<v Speaker 2>that with him if I get lucky. What would you say, though,

846
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.440
<v Speaker 2>is a good way to summarize the the interest? Like,

847
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, you wouldn't do this if it didn't you know,

848
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.440
<v Speaker 2>seem to need to be done. So what's the what's

849
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.440
<v Speaker 2>the deal? What is the teaser if you will? To

850
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:54.719
<v Speaker 2>the reader out there?

851
00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:58.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and a teaser, I think, just to rep up

852
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:03.800
<v Speaker 4>what David said. Our view is that the CIA Special

853
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:09.639
<v Speaker 4>Affairs staff within their Propaganda section saw Oswell as an

854
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:14.199
<v Speaker 4>opportunity to launch a new black propaganda project in support

855
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:17.840
<v Speaker 4>of Mworld. This would be something that they launched overseas.

856
00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:23.519
<v Speaker 4>David Phillips became involved in that, Joan Edies became involved

857
00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:27.159
<v Speaker 4>in that, and to telegraph a little bit the outlet

858
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.079
<v Speaker 4>that they were likely going to use to do this

859
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.920
<v Speaker 4>because since its black project, it has to be totally disassociated.

860
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:39.320
<v Speaker 4>Was probably going to be the INCA group in New Orleans,

861
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.000
<v Speaker 4>which gets to be very fascinating.

862
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:42.039
<v Speaker 3>He takes you back to New.

863
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.039
<v Speaker 4>Orleans because we're going to show you that they actually

864
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 4>had that kind of project in development and we're about

865
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:52.039
<v Speaker 4>to launch it by the end of the year. As

866
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:56.239
<v Speaker 4>it ended up, it got launched a little earlier because

867
00:50:56.280 --> 00:51:00.320
<v Speaker 4>of November twenty second. But that's one area. That's one

868
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.719
<v Speaker 4>operational use. The other operational use is that we think

869
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:07.679
<v Speaker 4>that the connections that we discussed in the last few

870
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:12.119
<v Speaker 4>minutes in New Orleans established Oswell of operational interest to

871
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.519
<v Speaker 4>the conspiracy, and that over the next ninety days, not

872
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:19.440
<v Speaker 4>all at once, but over the next ninety.

873
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Days, they figured out a way.

874
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:24.599
<v Speaker 4>To use Oswell for one thing and another thing and

875
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:28.920
<v Speaker 4>a MultiMate as a patsy in Dallas. So Oswell became

876
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:33.599
<v Speaker 4>of operational interest to both the CIA for actually a sanctioned,

877
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.840
<v Speaker 4>legitimate operation which they had to cover up like after

878
00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 4>the assassination, because who wants to admit that, Oh, you

879
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:43.360
<v Speaker 4>mean the guy we were about to use.

880
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:44.880
<v Speaker 3>No, no, we don't know him.

881
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:49.400
<v Speaker 4>And of operational use by the people that were actually

882
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:55.519
<v Speaker 4>involved in the assassination deciding that they had control to

883
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:57.800
<v Speaker 4>a certain extent over this guy and they knew enough

884
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.960
<v Speaker 4>about him to make them a patsy, which they had

885
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.840
<v Speaker 4>not planned in the beginning. But some things, you know,

886
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:06.719
<v Speaker 4>just come together right.

887
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.599
<v Speaker 2>And plausible deniability wrapped in deniability. Maybe again wrapped in

888
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:14.679
<v Speaker 2>plausible deniability. But you know, a lot to explore here.

889
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Also another just quick note for media studies and the

890
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:22.320
<v Speaker 2>dynamics of the interactions of the government, the different operations

891
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:24.800
<v Speaker 2>going on and all that. Let us not forget that

892
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Latin Listening Post was partially at least partially funded by

893
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.280
<v Speaker 2>INCA as well, and they even took credit on the

894
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:36.199
<v Speaker 2>release of the record of Lee Harvey Oswald. If you

895
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:38.239
<v Speaker 2>take a look at it, Lee Harvey Oswald speaks the

896
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Latin Listening Post interview right that they put out on

897
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:43.480
<v Speaker 2>a piece of vital for a few kiddies out there.

898
00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:45.800
<v Speaker 2>They used to have these record things that were on

899
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:51.039
<v Speaker 2>vinyl and it said, yeah, Inca's listed on there as

900
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like you know, like where even have a record company practically,

901
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.320
<v Speaker 2>So just saying it's an interesting study when it comes

902
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:00.719
<v Speaker 2>to the dynamics of the American media and it's interactivity

903
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.639
<v Speaker 2>with intelligence agencies, et cetera, et cetera as well, not

904
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:07.280
<v Speaker 2>the focus in Larry's book, But just a side note

905
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:10.800
<v Speaker 2>from me who does presentations on that anyway, I want

906
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:13.480
<v Speaker 2>to thank David Boilin and Larry Hancock w we are

907
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:17.519
<v Speaker 2>the co authors of the Oswald Puzzle, and hopefully this

908
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:21.599
<v Speaker 2>gives you guys out there enough to motivate you to

909
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.599
<v Speaker 2>go get the newly updated version of the Oswald Puzzle. Again,

910
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:28.159
<v Speaker 2>I highly recommend it. I will give you guys a

911
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.960
<v Speaker 2>link in the show notes to go get it. I

912
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:33.199
<v Speaker 2>don't care if you get the electronic one, but I

913
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:36.920
<v Speaker 2>highly recommend the paperback. And as Larry said, they will

914
00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:40.079
<v Speaker 2>be updating the kindle soon, so wait and the updated

915
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:43.320
<v Speaker 2>kindle will be available shortly. But in the meantime, pre

916
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:47.039
<v Speaker 2>orders and whatnot. Do your thing. And again it's always.

917
00:53:46.800 --> 00:54:27.719
<v Speaker 7>Been h.

918
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:52.599
<v Speaker 8>Oh hilly dot com.

919
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street, Greendow dot dot com, Wall Street, Windows.

920
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:55.400
<v Speaker 9>Dot com dot com.

921
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, gives

922
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:06.199
<v Speaker 2>you the benefit of his knowledge Wallstreamno, dott go there, now,

923
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:07.800
<v Speaker 2>go there, now there.

924
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:11.800
<v Speaker 8>Now do you like history? Real history that you were

925
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:16.559
<v Speaker 8>never taught in schools. Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs

926
00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:20.599
<v Speaker 8>and Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson,

927
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:25.159
<v Speaker 8>with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes

928
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:28.920
<v Speaker 8>to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War,

929
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:33.840
<v Speaker 8>Nuclear Bombs and Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty

930
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:38.079
<v Speaker 8>five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at

931
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:43.320
<v Speaker 8>Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson.

932
00:55:44.519 --> 00:56:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Relations CONSTI impact, so show fact revelation, the fasba.

933
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:10.760
<v Speaker 5>Ne a devastation.

934
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Relation through conversational effect.

935
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:20.239
<v Speaker 5>You are the effects to conversation.

936
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:28.960
<v Speaker 10>All raised demonstrator ll sell the fact revelation conversation through

937
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:34.760
<v Speaker 10>a teasion, through conversation, Oh shall lea.

938
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:40.199
<v Speaker 7>Effect, revelation of cont fation gone had forgotten, Sally a

939
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:45.119
<v Speaker 7>fact beyond the place of that, And fears are the

940
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:49.800
<v Speaker 7>shade and the years find it shall find me on

941
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.679
<v Speaker 7>a braid, And there is not a brave.

942
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:55.320
<v Speaker 5>Decate a charge with the school.

943
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:57.960
<v Speaker 7>I am the master of my fate.

944
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:08.960
<v Speaker 5>I am the chant of my soul. Continued catching it.

945
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:20.400
<v Speaker 9>Religion in denial. Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks

946
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:25.119
<v Speaker 9>by Larry Hancock. Secret Wars became a staple of US

947
00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:29.280
<v Speaker 9>covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book

948
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.679
<v Speaker 9>In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using

949
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:35.519
<v Speaker 9>new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs

950
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:38.559
<v Speaker 9>that no one has ever written about before. It shows

951
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:41.239
<v Speaker 9>why it really failed and why the United States did

952
00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:44.239
<v Speaker 9>not learn from it. It also shows why other countries

953
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:48.199
<v Speaker 9>today are doing secret operations with more success. This is

954
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:51.480
<v Speaker 9>the book that puts what some want to deny into

955
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:55.719
<v Speaker 9>the light. In Denial secret wars with air strikes and

956
00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:02.320
<v Speaker 9>tanks Larry Hancock. For more information to larryhiphen Handcock dot com.

957
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:05.519
<v Speaker 9>Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot

958
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:07.800
<v Speaker 9>com in digital or physical.

959
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:09.760
<v Speaker 5>Shelley dot com. Radio.

960
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:14.079
<v Speaker 11>The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national

961
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:17.119
<v Speaker 11>transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in

962
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:20.599
<v Speaker 11>the context of the times and reveals never before published

963
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:24.280
<v Speaker 11>information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not

964
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:27.000
<v Speaker 11>have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred

965
00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:30.400
<v Speaker 11>years ago. His assassination took place in the context of

966
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:33.440
<v Speaker 11>the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.

967
00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:37.039
<v Speaker 11>Before World War II, the United States was a continental Republic.

968
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.440
<v Speaker 11>In the decade that followed it became an imperial superpower.

969
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:44.159
<v Speaker 11>Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,

970
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:46.599
<v Speaker 11>but knew that there were short range missiles on the

971
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:49.800
<v Speaker 11>island armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy

972
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.719
<v Speaker 11>because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have

973
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.800
<v Speaker 11>led to a Third World War, and they wanted to

974
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:59.119
<v Speaker 11>go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson

975
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:02.199
<v Speaker 11>reveals why and we'll show you what President Kennedy was

976
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:05.639
<v Speaker 11>up against. For more information the War State dot com.

977
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:31.079
<v Speaker 12>The Pleasure leads just to the front of Mecamania and

978
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:33.880
<v Speaker 12>for the mercier that made in China South Phil the

979
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:37.519
<v Speaker 12>estate for nothing, Madim and we stand broken nation and

980
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:41.440
<v Speaker 12>moral bank or beyond divided number muscle brace for remember

981
00:59:41.559 --> 00:59:42.960
<v Speaker 12>being justice denied for.

982
00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:46.159
<v Speaker 3>All show Chili dot com.

983
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.360
<v Speaker 7>It's got some some that's not.

984
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't one time around.

985
01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:05.400
<v Speaker 7>So he come, were wearing.

986
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:13.199
<v Speaker 12>Long no

987
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:27.280
<v Speaker 7>No no, you want from a small as a Fostres