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Speaker 1: What is up? Fellasiko's om Damn Valley coming at you

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With another twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA season

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look ahead. We are onto the Dallas Mavericks, which means

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it's time to speak with Kirk Henderson of Pod Maverick

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and of MAVs Moneyball. You can find the link to

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all the places you could subscribe to Pod Maverick in

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the YouTube and podcast description. Follow Kirk on the social

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machine at Kirk Serious face spelled exactly as it sounds,

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and it's also on screen if you're watching for your convenience. Kirk,

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how the heck are you doing good?

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Speaker 2: I'm uh. It's been a long off season and I

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think I'm actually ready for the basketball to begin.

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Speaker 1: I for me this offseason as it feels like a

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blur for some reason, we didn't have any I know,

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there's euro basketball, like the Olympics last year made it

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feel like it was longer for some reason, even though

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they shouldn't have. But just bizarre stuff. Speaking of bizarre stuff, though,

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I promise I'm not asking you to re litigate the

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Lukadancis trade. I just what do you make of this

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team after going from that? You know, trading him because

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what they say to increase their championship equity to winding

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up with this generational, potentially generational nineteen year old, and

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yet you're still trying to win. Just what do you

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make of their entire direction right now?

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Speaker 2: It's difficult because during my time as a Mavericks fan,

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they've always had and I mean even during some of

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the weirder mid mid to twenty teams when they were

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kind of like a seventh to eighth seed, they've always

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had pretty good ball handlers. Like there was a year

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when even Raymond Felton was like the team point guard,

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and he's a passable point guard. And we're going to

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talk about this more as we go on, but like,

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this team is built in such a way that they

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don't value wall handling, and it's a truly kind of

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a unique experiment, and I think that, like my big

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picture takeaway from this team is that they're gonna be

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unlike anybody else in the NBA, which of itself can

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be interesting. I'm not sure it's interesting for eighty two games,

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And because of the injury to Kyrie Irving, it really

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puts a hard ceiling on what this team could possibly

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be the flip side of that is the talent is

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as such to whereas I actually think there's a pretty

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high floor.

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Speaker 1: A lot of dudes, a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Like if you don't know anything about basketball, but you

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do follow socials, like there's just names, you know, and

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that's of value because it usually means the players are

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pretty good. So it's it's sort of tough to make

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what they're trying to build. I mean, Nico Harrison, I

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think is I mean, this is the thing he's going

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to be known for for the rest of his life,

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and he's ultimately wrong. I think he does make a

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pretty decent point in terms of I think he's very

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concerned about building a team around a Supermax player not

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constructed a certain way like the Oklahoma City Thunder will

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likely be a kind of exception versus a rule, because

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you have to nail every point, and if the hardcap

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is going to exist, if the second Apron is going

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to exist, you just can't. Committing eighty million dollars to

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a guy is a daunting thing, and I actually do

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get that, as much as I don't agree with with

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the Lugudanci trade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, that's a whole different discussion. But

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I think the bar for those contracts we're already kind

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of seeing it increase. Lukadancic that trade was an anomaly,

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but that's you know, Trey Young's extension is just a

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good harbinger. What he gets not eligible for the supermax,

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but he gets less than the max. I think that

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will show we're kind of just waiting for that first

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big name to like not get the money you would

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think that they get, because that would hint at a

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different type of team building. But what I wanted to

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ask you before diving into this team specifically this season,

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I think what could be construed is fascinating and also

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kind of cool. Is that, well, you're trying to win. Now,

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you have talent, help you win, now end this nineteen

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year old generational prospect, but you're also really expensive, don't

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have a ton of assets. Is there a risk in

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kind of going for it before Cooper flag is in

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his prime? I think by the time it get go ahead, Sorry.

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Speaker 2: It's it's the same thing they did with Luca and

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only they did even earlier. I mean midway through the

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Luca Tray or Lucas Rooki years when they traded for Porzingis,

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which you know, I think history doesn't look back on

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that trade very well. But the first year and a

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half of it after Porzingis came back from ACL is

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actually really good. The Mavericks were really good in that

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twenty twenty bubble season twenty nineteen twenty twenty season then

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ended in the bubble. The challenge that that they're they're

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sort of staring down is if you if you say

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we have a four year window, then then that and

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they've not adjusted that at all, which drives me crazy

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as a fan because it just puts a limiting factor

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on things. Then it's sort of reasonable to assume that

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they're going to do whatever they can to maximize that window. Well,

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if you do that, then by the time you know

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Cooper Flag's rookie contract is up, you're staring at a

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twenty was twenty I guess basically the twenty nine to

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thirty season is what it would be something like that.

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Maybe my math wrong, doesn't really matter, and at that

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point you'd be staring at a team that might not

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have very many draft assets and might not have many

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young players, and that's just sort of a bleak place

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to be because building teams in the NBA, you can

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turn things around with one pick, but that one pick

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also has to fall into an infrastructure that's that's pretty good.

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I'm a little worried about that. I also think that

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if this you mentioned something earlier, which I don't think

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a lot of people understand. The Mavericks are a million

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dollars underneath the second apron, a million dollars next year,

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they're nineteen million over it before anything even haves. So

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it's like they have to do stuff just because they

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have a very expensive team with again pretty good players.

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But the question is do those players fit? And so

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I strongly advocated from the moment Kyrie Irving went down

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that they needed to trade Anthony Davis because you know,

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Anthony Davis is not a one A option. He's a

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top fifteen, top twenty player in the NBA, whatever you

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want to call him. But there's just there's concerns there.

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And if this team starts out and the schedule is

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such to where they're actually going to start out like

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thirteen and seven, and everybody's gonna think they're great, and

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then what's gonna happen is like the regular season is

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going to kick in and then following Christmas, they're gonna

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get bushwhacked and then it's gonna be very what happened

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to the Mavericks? Oh no, Well what happened to the

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Mavericks is the season is eighty two games long. That's

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what's gonna happen to the Mavericks. So it's it's an

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odd place to be because it's flag is so enticing,

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and I think putting a ceiling on him is insane

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because a younger player's developmental years, like their best developmental

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years I think, are like from roughly like sixteen to

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twenty three, and he's not turning nineteen for three more months,

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so it's nuts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what have you made of Well? I guess let's

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start with the comments from Jason Kidd that they want

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to put the ball in his hands a bunch, and

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it's obviously easier to do that without Kyrie there to start.

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Do you view him as someone for what you based

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off what you see when he was in college but

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you saw on summerly do you think that that's something

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that he can do or does the roster around him

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need to change a little bit before you have confidence

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that he could develop that type of offensive game.

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Speaker 2: So I think he can do it. But I also

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think the Mavericks are going to play three yards in

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a cloud of dust basketball. They don't have shooting. It

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is bleak. You have Klay Thompson, a generational shooter. You

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have Danngela Russell, a good shooter, but probably a good

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shooter in a secondary role, and he's going to be

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asked to be the primary ball handler. Uh So Flag

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is going to be driving a lot into traffic. I'm

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excited for it. I actually think that's the most interesting

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thing Jason Kidd has said, because while I'm very frustrated

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with people who were sick of Luca ball only for

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the concept to become let's give the ball to Cooper Flag, Like,

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why not just stick with Luca Bahl. There's a little

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obtuse of me, but it's also.

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Speaker 1: Just new is always better, Kirk that the truth.

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Speaker 2: But Flag is really shockingly adaptable. I was watching some

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videos early in the process of him as a JA.

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Kyle Manner the ringer pointed this out to me that

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when he was like fifteen, his shot mechanics were busted,

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and then he goes to Duke and sort of has

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like fifty percent from the field forty percent from three

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and that happened in three years of working with high

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school stuff with no dedicated you know you're you're working around.

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I mean, I know these high school kids at that

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level are basically professionals, but it's a different situation. So

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it's what can he do when this is his only

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and sole focus, And that's really exciting to consider. I

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just think that if that's what you're relying on to

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be the Mavericks engine, that comes with a ceiling and

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it's not the champ like a championship caliber team. As

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Nico Harrison has repeated over and over again.

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Speaker 1: I came away when people were it seems like we

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did this. We not you and I, but people did

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this with Wemby after he had that bad game in

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Summer League. When I came, I came away from Cooper

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Flag's bad game in Summer League actually thinking like, oh,

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there's more offensive tools, like dead stop offensive tools here

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than I thought there was going to be My main

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concern You've already mentioned it with the spacing, though, is

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will they make it? This is I'm not even trolling

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the Anthony Davis doesn't want to play five thing, but

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Cooper Flag is going to be a lot of de

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facto three or is he gonna slide up to the two?

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Will they make it a priority to at least get

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to lineups where it's Cooper Flag plus one big mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: And that's really that's why I sort of started off

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talking about that there's just not gonna be anybody else

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playing basketball like them where we're we're coming in. We're

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coming from this era where we've had one big basketball

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a lot of the time, to where we're gonna have

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one guard basketball with.

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Speaker 1: The Rockets were ahead of the curve. They saw it coming.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be very, very funky. And his vision is

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vastly underrated. A stat I keep going back to, even

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though it's probably meaningless. In summer league he played sixty minutes.

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He had three turnovers, which in summer league is like

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Hall of Fame shit. Yeah, But the and and the

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Spurs threw a guy I can't remember the guy's name.

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They drafted him in.

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Speaker 1: The first first Carter Bryant.

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Speaker 2: Wow, what a good defender. And he had a couple

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of turnovers against Carter Bryant, then just didn't have any

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the rest of the time. And that if you have

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the ball a lot. That's impressive to me. Not really

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answering your question here, but it's it's I just have

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a hard time putting a ceiling on him because of

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just how quickly younger players can figure things out. But

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I wonder what that means to the to the rest

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of the guys, because if I'm guarding the Mavericks, I'm

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just camping four guys in the paint and saying beat

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us from three. Well, we'll talk to you later, you know.

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That's just I think that's what's gonna happen at.

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Speaker 1: The other end of the floor our defense. It does

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seem like they're set up more right now based off

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what it feels like their lineup construction is going to

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be that he's going to defend on the ball a lot,

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and I think that he can do that. And you

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can also correct me if I'm wrong that they're not

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gonna do that. But if he's playing next to two

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bigs a lot, or if he's kind of a de

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facto wing for them, a lot of what he does

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best is like the defense of disruption stuff away from

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the ball, or what you would think is like in

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that four man type role. Does that concern you at

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all or again or we just they will get to

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lineups that allow him to do that.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what what Nico is sort of happy about,

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because if you put let's just just think lineup talk

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real quick, here you have rough Dangel Russell at the

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point a variation like there's six guys. I'm gonna mention

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here for a five guy lineup. I think Klay Thompson

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will be talked about, but I think Clay might be

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the one that has come off the bench. PJ Washington,

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Cooper Flag, Anthony Davis, Derek Lively or Daniel Gafford. I

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really think they're gonna play four big guys. They've talked

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about it too much to be this full of it,

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and they're just gonna say, let's see what happens. That's

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why I mentioned leading off the show with they they

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don't seem to value ball handling or they think they

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can make. You know, it's like in football they talk

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about like manufacturing touches for guys. I think they believe

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the Mavericks believe they're going to manufacture ball handling. Are

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they gonna play it like just the Detroit Pistons two

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thousand and three era pace, like what is gonna happen?

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Like there's I'm really really intrigued, and I'm also a

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little bit worried because I'm just not good about talking

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this about this kind of basketball. But that's just sort

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of what where I see things going. It's it's very

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unique in modern basketball.

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Speaker 1: What all the stuff that's out there with Kyrie Irving?

255
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What do you think is like a realistic to there

256
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was the whole alway is he going to come back early? Thing?

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Like if you're following the MAVs, is it does it

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like behoove them to just bring him along slowly at

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this point and kind of let the season play out

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where it is, or do you expect him to be

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back by a certain point.

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Speaker 2: Well, Kyrie's never come back from anything early, and he's

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had a lot of injuries. One of the things you

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see about him in the offseason that's very interesting and

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fun about him to cover. Frustrating if you're a basketball

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die hard, but if you're just interested in him as

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a human. He likes a lot of things other than basketball,

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and I think he loves basketball, but I think when

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he's away from basketball, it's out of his mind. That's

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not to say He's not rehabing hard or anything like that,

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but an acl Taiar at thirty two is not something

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I think you can rush. Let's Nico has been putting

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out into the universe that he thinks Kyrie is ahead

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of schedule. Well, Kyrie didn't get the surgery till late March,

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and eight months after late March is essentially December. That's

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the earliest timetable of anybody like we've ever seen. Like

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you're Adrian Peterson's like you're super athletes in their prime.

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Kyrie's thirty two, he's small. I think All Star Break

279
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is a fair guess if you think he's coming back

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this year. But even he said don't count on it.

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He has said this, so I want to take him

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at his at his word, and my expectations are centered

283
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around I would really rather be delighted and surprised by

284
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Kyrie's return than desperately seeking it out and hoping that

285
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he's the bump, because even when he does come back,

286
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he's not gonna be the Kyrie we know because getting

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used to trusting the leg in NBA level situations. That's

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gonna take the rest of the year. It just is.

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I don't expect him to. I really do expect him

290
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to come back healthy, but not really until the twenty

291
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twenty six twenty seven season.

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Speaker 1: There's also the element of having not played within this

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roster construction before. He's really good at He could play

294
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off of anybody, but like not being able to go

295
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through a training camp with whatever this ecosystem plans to

296
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be without him is a big deal.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of the contract that they ended up,

299
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but also just their their off season at large, extending Gafford,

300
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PJ Washington, using D'Angelo Russell's that ball handling stop gap.

301
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How do you feel about the way they navigated the

302
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off season.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're in a difficult position. They built a

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team for Luca and then traded Luca, and that's that's

305
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kind of the start in the finish. Had they even

306
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kept Luca, they'd be still staring at this sort of

307
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off season where when you're loaded for bear, when you

308
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believe you have a good team, you have to keep

309
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spending because you can't let guys go for nothing, or

310
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you have to resign them and trade them and get

311
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something back. That's really what the Gafford deal felt like

312
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to me was kicking the can down the road with

313
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what to do with him. I don't know the final

314
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terms of his deal, but it made it sound like

315
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he signed for X but then when they weren't able

316
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to get a trade together for him, then that money

317
00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:02,320
might have increased just so they could, you know, make

318
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:04,399
him whole, so to speak. You know, you don't want

319
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to go into a season like this with both him

320
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:10,200
and PJ. Washington potentially hitting the open market, because if

321
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they're not getting their minutes, they become malcontents and who

322
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could mind them? So I think given the situation that

323
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they had, they navigated it as well as possible, but

324
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,600
they put themselves in a very difficult spot just with

325
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,960
an expensive team. Uh, if they don't perform, this is

326
00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:32,279
not going to hold. But as of things right now,

327
00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:36,200
they roughly owe a repeater tax penalty in the thirty

328
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,960
million dollar range for this year and then next year

329
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,320
the twenty twenty six to twenty seven season. Looking at

330
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,879
it right now, that shoots up to ninety million dollars.

331
00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:49,600
The Agolsen family is one of the richest families on Earth,

332
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but I also don't think they bought this asset to

333
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,000
continually sink money into it and at least at this

334
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,559
rate if you're not getting something in return. So the

335
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,080
Mavericks are going to have to be pretty successful. So

336
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,920
I'm thinking like second round or higher in order to

337
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,920
really justify some of what they've thrown together for this team.

338
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So it puts everybody in a difficult spot. And this

339
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,359
is where the hard cap and being an NBA accountant

340
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,759
comes into to play. Where it's it just sort of

341
00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:21,400
stinks that we have to have these discussions because if

342
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,640
you're drafting good teams and you want to keep them together,

343
00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:28,839
you shouldn't be punitively, you know, ripped for trying to

344
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,599
build an organic team. Now the Mavericks have at least

345
00:17:31,599 --> 00:17:34,759
traded guys in, but you know, compared to where the

346
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:37,839
roster was when they made the Western Conference Finals in

347
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,400
twenty twenty two, it's a much much much better roster

348
00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:45,400
than that team ever was. It's it's just wild to

349
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,880
look back and think about where they've where they've been

350
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versus where they are.

351
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Speaker 1: And I keep you mentioned, Daniel Gafford, I keep going

352
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,759
back to the big men of it all, and you

353
00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:58,119
even mentioned before that you think they're going to try

354
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,319
playing four bigs. But look at him specifically, as you

355
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,000
have Derek Lively, there just will be minutes where Anthony

356
00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:07,079
Davis is the five like it will happen. Is there

357
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,480
a chance that like Gafford kind of falls by the wayside,

358
00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:11,359
or if they're looking to cut that tax bill, is

359
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,359
that someone that they wind up shopping aggressively this year?

360
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,079
Like I'm just curiously how big his role is within

361
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,839
the context of the of the and look, injuries could

362
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:21,240
take care of a lot of it. We're talking about

363
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,359
Lively at ad who are guys that seem like they're

364
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,200
always dealing with something. But if this team is healthy,

365
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:28,920
even if they want to play dual Biggs, just because

366
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,720
you have Nauji Marshall, PJ. Washington, I find myself thinking

367
00:18:31,759 --> 00:18:34,240
a lot about what Daniel Gafford's value and role to

368
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:35,200
this team is gonna be.

369
00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:38,559
Speaker 2: That's right, because defensively, Daniel Gafford is a really good

370
00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:41,160
shop blocker, but anything outside of five feet he is

371
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,839
not good. And that's where the hope of like you

372
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,759
mentioned Cooper Flag and his sort of off ball potentiality

373
00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:52,079
on defense, that's where like Flag and Washington clean up

374
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,920
a lot for Gafford. It's like a it's almost like

375
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,279
a reverse of having way back in the day Tyson

376
00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:00,519
Chandler protecting everything at the rim. You somehow have like

377
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,960
these secondary kind of wing players as your as your

378
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,880
final defense. Like that's what's what's helping gafferd because Gaffige

379
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,839
is that is actually kind of a spectacular offensive player.

380
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,200
I think very underrated. He dunks a whole lot, He

381
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,519
has a nice passing touch and that sort of thing.

382
00:19:16,519 --> 00:19:19,559
But he does strike me as the odd man out.

383
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,640
But that's where the injury element comes into play. Derek

384
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,960
Lively has played less than one hundred NBA games regular

385
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,720
season through two years because of injuries and then like

386
00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:34,160
personal issues that he's had, and like that, you just

387
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:36,920
as much as I like Lively, he's got to show it,

388
00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:40,200
you've got to stay healthy. It just this, You've got

389
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,440
to play sixty five games or more in order to

390
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,240
to really be impactful on a team. And so I

391
00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:47,000
think this is a little bit of a hedge there.

392
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,839
I don't I don't necessarily think the team would ever

393
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,839
move Lively, but Lively is like value was sky high

394
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,839
after the finals, and now he strikes me as a

395
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,039
guy who is one of many talent biggs. But he's

396
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:03,359
got to he's he needs to be healthy in order

397
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,839
to show some some growth because last year is basically

398
00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:10,119
a wasted year for him.

399
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm curious. What I'm curious is with about

400
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,960
that is I view him as just looking back to

401
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,079
his rookie year, I feel like that's someone who can

402
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,119
be a transformative defender offensively, Like you can see the

403
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,319
outlines of what would be a more versatile I don't

404
00:20:24,319 --> 00:20:26,319
need to hear about Derek Lively shooting threes, I don't care,

405
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:28,839
but as someone who could be like a more like

406
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,559
there's real usage there on the offensive end. But I'm

407
00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:34,799
curious is like, what does he look like? You mentioned

408
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:37,319
this team just diminished ball handling, and I think as

409
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,039
much as Ad is limited, just given the importance or

410
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:43,079
the swing factor that Derek Lively is, like, the lack

411
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,799
of ball handling on this team feels like it could

412
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,279
hurt him more than anybody else. And so I'm curious, like,

413
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:49,880
what are you kind of watching for with him in

414
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,119
year three on offense? Like what needs to happen for

415
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,519
him to not just survive the way the Mas are

416
00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:56,640
set up, but like kind of be optimized within it.

417
00:20:58,279 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 2: Tim Kato on the d LS podcasts earlier in the summer,

418
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,319
made the joke that it's gonna be the most dribble

419
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,640
handoff offense in the NBA. I just repeated dribble handoffs

420
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,079
over and over, and I'm gonna be fascinated to see

421
00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,119
what they do with Lively because we saw it in

422
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,680
the second half of Lively's rookie year. It sort of

423
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,000
diminished in the playoffs because obviously your stakes change. But

424
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,759
Lively is a really good basketball player. He is not

425
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,240
a single skilled guy. Part of why he shot up

426
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:35,319
the draft boards in the weeks and months before the

427
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,440
twenty twenty four twenty three NBA Draft was because he

428
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,680
showed a lot of offensive potential in workouts and stuff

429
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,799
that he never really got a chance to show it to.

430
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:51,519
He's only shot two threes ever in the in the NBA, but.

431
00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: How many and workout videos.

432
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,519
Speaker 2: I know, right, I still don't think he's actually gonna

433
00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:59,559
shoot many, but they're gonna have to let something happen.

434
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,480
I mean, he's a really good decision maker. I really

435
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,720
loved him out of the short role a lot of

436
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:07,519
the times when he was playing with Luca. But now

437
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,640
you're just not doing stuff like that, are you doing

438
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,440
big to big stuff is Anton? Are you doing things

439
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,880
with Anthony Davis and Cooper Flagg? You know? Flag? Really,

440
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:16,759
how do you see the guy who went to the

441
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:18,759
Sun's name Melawak? Is that right?

442
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, damn Maliwatch yeah.

443
00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: Him and Flag had some very nice big to big

444
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,160
chemistry at Duke And I'm curious if that kind of

445
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:30,319
and it just strikes me as kind of a given

446
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:34,000
because Flag's a smart player. Lively, he's a smart Player's

447
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,799
played with Luca. There's got to be some optionality there

448
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:39,920
where you're getting Lively at going at the basket. You know,

449
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:43,440
we're not talking about dribbling as a seven foot one guy.

450
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,359
Maybe a little maybe the occasional thing, but putting him

451
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,000
in actions where you can see what he has, you

452
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,119
just have to find out and if he gives you,

453
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,480
and if it's something that you're not expecting, like let's

454
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,559
it's not like he's necessarily gonna have a post game.

455
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,759
This isn't nineteen ninety two. But if he gives you

456
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:05,160
anything offensively beyond offensive rebounds, put back dunks and roles,

457
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,200
you're excited. I think he's the kind of guy if

458
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,640
given the opportunity could average, you know, two and a

459
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,400
half assists a game, which, okay, we'll thinking that it's

460
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,119
the He's like, like that would be They're gonna need

461
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,240
things to come from unorthodox places this season.

462
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,839
Speaker 1: I love the short role stuff with him. I just

463
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,039
it leads me to a point where DeAngelo Russell and

464
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,359
Klay Thompson feel way too important to this team then,

465
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,039
because if if you want to run something with Cooper

466
00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:36,400
Flag and Derek Lively, you have to have eight And

467
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,279
assuming a D's on the court, he's not. He's not

468
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,839
spacing like he's or if he is, like defenses don't care.

469
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,559
So if he's in the dumpker spot like you need

470
00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:46,519
Clay and DeAngelo, or even if you flip those roles

471
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,559
between Lively and ad it just leads me because I'm

472
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:52,559
looking at the rest of this roster and it's like, oh, okay,

473
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:54,759
like where are the other shooters aside from them unless

474
00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:57,359
you think it's Jadeen Hardy time or something like that.

475
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,319
So that's just what makes me uncomfortable about this. But

476
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,599
I still really like they could do some weird stuff,

477
00:24:04,079 --> 00:24:06,359
like you said, I just I wonder if they're gonna

478
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,240
have the spacing in the half court to do, like

479
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:13,039
to really explore what Lively can do. I guess yeah.

480
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:15,559
And the other thing you mentioned that I'm fascinating is

481
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:18,240
then playing at like this Detroit Pistons esque pace from

482
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,640
two thousand and three, not saying you were inferring that

483
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,200
was the plan, but like, shouldn't this team be built

484
00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:26,240
to like really hammer it in transition and in addition

485
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,759
like crashing the offensive glass which post Luca trade didn't

486
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:31,880
really do a ton of either of those things. But

487
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,160
you look at the personnel that's available. A D's injured,

488
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,119
So just will that be more at least the transition

489
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,640
stuff is not going to be more of an identity

490
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,559
when this team and you look like Brandon Williams is here,

491
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:43,240
Cooper Flagg is here. Ad can still run the floor,

492
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:44,319
Lively can run the floor.

493
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: See that's where I'm very interested because Flag can obviously

494
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:54,720
dribble the ball. Fine. Ad I think is doesn't either

495
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,000
doesn't want it or hasn't gotten the opportunity to kind

496
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,279
of handle the ball and transition as much as other guys,

497
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,319
But you'd like to see it. I think it up

498
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,880
to their turnover turnovers quite a bit. But I also

499
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,000
think scoring on these Mavericks is going to be such

500
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,079
a bear that you got to find a way to

501
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:13,720
get easier points. Playing the half core game with the

502
00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:16,079
Mavericks on offense is going to be ugly at times.

503
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,920
So I wouldn't mind some a little more reckless basketball

504
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,599
now and again if they can build and develop I

505
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,720
mean Flag and transition as a monster, not any and

506
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:28,720
I mean without the ball, like he's just he runs

507
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,240
so hard and it's so good at at you know,

508
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:34,240
kind of being like a kind of like an NFL

509
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:36,480
tight end where he gets open in space and can

510
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:38,279
go do things with the ball after he gets it.

511
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:40,440
That would be something I'd like to see. But I

512
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:47,160
just I bet they grind things to a halt man.

513
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: That just that's kind of a bummer when you have

514
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,319
Cooper flag to me, but I also understand it.

515
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,039
Speaker 2: I agree it's it. Then that's where the Kyrie injury

516
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:57,880
comes into play, where it's like if you had D'angela

517
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,279
Russell as your secondary ball handler versus primary, you could

518
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:03,359
see some fun things. He was like, Okay, here are

519
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,759
these two guards, you know, mixing and matching and bringing

520
00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:08,920
the ball at the court, and then just a fleet

521
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,640
of condors along the back line on defense. Oh, you

522
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,240
can talk yourself into that, but without it just gets funky.

523
00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: What is this team ceiling on defense? I keep going

524
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,599
back to you mentioned like scoring at the basket on them.

525
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:22,519
Team shot like fifty six percent at the rim when

526
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:25,200
Ad played the four last year with them, small sample size,

527
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,279
pretty bad, but just sort of like they were taking

528
00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:29,079
a lot of shots at the rim during that time.

529
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: They're still Ad was really bad. Ad was unhealthy. They

530
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:35,720
shouldn't have traded for him, and they should have gotten

531
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,079
additional compensation for the fact that they traded for an

532
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,839
unhealthy player. That's just the way this should have gone.

533
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,440
He was never right, and that's where the AD question

534
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:50,359
always becomes so challenging to talk about, because when is

535
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,200
Ad wright? There's not really a good answer for that one. However,

536
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:59,480
if you're looking at the team in theory, if he's

537
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:02,960
able to give you fifty five to sixty five games,

538
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,519
I mean, he missed his twenty games a year. Some

539
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,839
just sort of banking that in. If he can give

540
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,640
you high quality play during most of those games, I

541
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,480
think their defense is gonna be better. I mean, he

542
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:15,960
really didn't try on defense last year after that Rockets

543
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,000
game like there was ad in space was abysmal, which

544
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:25,799
is the thing that has actually been So that's what

545
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,039
has sort of differentiated him from other bigs is because

546
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,079
he was just he could guard anywhere, and he didn't

547
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,079
last year. He's gonna have additional help this year, but

548
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,960
he's gonna need to look like the defensive player that

549
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,400
he is has been during points in his career.

550
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:45,559
Speaker 1: Max Christie sent you guys for a little bit of

551
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:47,400
a rollercoaster ride, and when he came over in that

552
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,799
trade as well, what we're kind of your after watching

553
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,079
the Highs, after watching the Lows, we're just your overall

554
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:54,039
impressions of him and is his role with this team.

555
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:56,799
Speaker 2: Really loved him, and I think the important part about

556
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:58,880
the Lows I you want to go check out is

557
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,599
his minutes logs. He had clearly not played this much

558
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,920
consecutive basketball his in his entire life and hit the

559
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,119
equivalent of the rookie wall after about fifteen minute fifteen

560
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,559
games with the Mavericks. He started off with the Mavericks

561
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:16,759
like equaling scoring streaks that like Luca and Kyrie were

562
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:18,839
like the only two players to have ever done like.

563
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,759
He scored like fifteen points a game, like fifteen straight

564
00:28:21,799 --> 00:28:22,920
games of something nuts.

565
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,799
Speaker 1: His name I think came up in like one of

566
00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:27,200
those fines too, and then he just.

567
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,759
Speaker 2: Died on the vine where all of a sudden it

568
00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:32,720
was like, Oh, this guy can't shoot, he can't defend,

569
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,440
he can't do anything. And I didn't really understand it

570
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:38,240
until my co host on pod Mavericks said, we'll just

571
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:40,160
go look at his minutes totals from this year and

572
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,319
last year, like he's one of the He was a

573
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,880
kind of a workhorse. And as much as you know,

574
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,240
you might prepare yourself and train and get in the gym,

575
00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:50,759
you know, it's it's you know, we watched James Harden

576
00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:52,759
run into this his first year with the Rockets. Sometimes

577
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:54,359
you just don't have the juice and you got to

578
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,480
you gotta figure out ways to be to build up

579
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:59,119
your body better. So I was really pleased with him.

580
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:02,160
I have high hopes in the sense of he's going

581
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,039
to be an excellent role player for his entire career.

582
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,640
Kind of guy. He's got a pretty high ceiling right now,

583
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:13,720
I'm sorry, a pretty high floor, which you want from

584
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,880
a role player. His shooting looked nice. I think he

585
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,119
was way too hot from the mid range, Like, that's

586
00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:23,400
not something that sustained well. He was like dark Steph Curry,

587
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Joel Embiid in the mid range for his time with Dallas,

588
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,359
at least in the first fifteen games. But you know,

589
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,200
for a guy that's I think he's got a really

590
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,000
affordable contract. He's an exciting player to have and he's

591
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,160
the kind of guy who can become a fan favorite

592
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,480
just with like his effort that sort of thing.

593
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,559
Speaker 1: Is there anything like specifically aside from you know, he's

594
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:46,799
he's pigeonholed into this three and D type box. Is

595
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:48,519
there anything else on offense? So you mentioned the mid

596
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,559
range game? How important is that to the matters it is?

597
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,559
You know, the drives went up a lot too when

598
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,079
he came over from LA Is there just something you're

599
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:57,160
monitoring with his offensive development or do you think maybe

600
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,319
there's not too much more to plumb based off what

601
00:29:59,359 --> 00:29:59,759
you've seen.

602
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure his ball handling needed a lot of work,

603
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:06,319
like a lot of work, but that's you know, you

604
00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:09,160
get to the NBA and that's not uncommon. They have

605
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,759
Phil Handy now with the Mavericks, who is kind of

606
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:15,440
one of Kyrie's favorite guys, and you know they did lose.

607
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:17,839
Godsham got to the Magic which is one of the

608
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,599
best ball handling coaches in the league. But I I

609
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,759
think with some dedication and that sort of thing, like

610
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,319
his his offensive game improved a lot, the shooting things

611
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,759
like that. So if he can unlock any more ball

612
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:34,680
handling and become you know, more of a playmaker at all,

613
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,319
that could help unlock some stuff. The mid range game.

614
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,200
It's like, you hate to knock it because when shots

615
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,680
are going down, it's great, but it's just we know

616
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:46,559
now with what we know about like those longer two's,

617
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,920
they they're just an inefficient shot no matter who's doing it,

618
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,519
unless you're like one of the best five guys ever.

619
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,720
So so I'm not you know, we'll see where we

620
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:58,359
go with him. He's sort of penciled in for me

621
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:02,000
right now is like the ninth guy. Wow, okay, you know,

622
00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:02,599
but that's just.

623
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: Right.

624
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: But and he's gonna get his time. I think, you

625
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,519
know it. Maybe you know, he strikes me as a

626
00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:13,799
guy who Jason Kidd would like a great deal. So well,

627
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:15,279
we'll see where it goes this season.

628
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: Uh, Can I just get your quick thoughts on some

629
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,880
of like the younger or more improving guys on this

630
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,640
roster and any expectations you might have for that moving forward.

631
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: Which guys are we talking about that are concerned?

632
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:30,119
Speaker 1: I want to start. I very little feel for him.

633
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,799
Mike Sheer of Basketball Poetry came on. We talked about

634
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,119
him a bunch with Hidden Gems. He really likes Brandon Williams.

635
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:37,960
What are your thoughts on Brandon Williams.

636
00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:43,359
Speaker 2: So he's just kind of a two things. The good

637
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,640
thing is that he's a waterbug type player and they

638
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,680
don't have anybody else like this. I mean, he is

639
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,799
fast and he can score, and he is a very

640
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:57,599
also willing passer. The flip side is he's small and

641
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,880
he has part of why nobody knows who he is

642
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,079
because he's just injured a lot. He had a pretty

643
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:09,039
healthy season with the Mavericks, which is something. But I

644
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,359
just wonder how much they can rely on a guy

645
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
who was there who was like their two way guy. Like,

646
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,720
if that's a person who you're relying on, that says

647
00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:21,000
much more about the roster construction than it does him.

648
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:24,000
I'm I really do enjoy watching him play because I

649
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,240
think he brings that true point guard element that they

650
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:30,400
just need minutes from. Uh, but I just sort of

651
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,960
I don't know where they're gonna they're getting those minutes.

652
00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:35,319
If they're going to give them to Brandon Williams, those

653
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,200
minutes are going to come at the expense of a

654
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:41,839
better player who plays a different position, you know, just

655
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,359
that the log we just keep circling back to the

656
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,440
log jam at forward. The Mavericks just have a lot

657
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,960
of forwards. Are you not going to play Klay Thompson

658
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:51,960
because you need you need Brandon Williams running the point?

659
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,200
I mean the answer might be yes, and that just

660
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:57,079
that that has sort of different questions and concerns that

661
00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:58,240
come up as a result of that.

662
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: My thought with him is, especially if like he's hitting

663
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,440
his threes Brandon Williams, is does D'Angelo Russell somehow freelance

664
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:08,920
or play his way into Jason Kidd's doghouse? And is

665
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,359
that where maybe some of the minutes can be made up,

666
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:13,759
maybe even post Kyrie coming back.

667
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:16,519
Speaker 2: Maybe, I mean maybe I think part of why they

668
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,079
sought out D'Angel Russell's I think he actually works quite

669
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,400
well with ad Even though it seemed like that Lakers

670
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,119
team was ready to move on from him. I do

671
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,640
think he actually shares, like plays basketball well with Ad,

672
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:31,720
like knows AD's strengths. Ad sort of succeeds the most

673
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:34,240
when he has a penetrating guard that he can work with.

674
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:36,559
And I think Russell fits that Bill and men Williams

675
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,200
fits that Bill too, So you know, if you're looking

676
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,039
for upside, I just it's the names don't have the

677
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:44,759
pedigree that the Mavericks have had in the past. Obviously,

678
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:46,519
you know, you're coming off of like having Luke over

679
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,880
seven years. It's just sort of a different deal. But

680
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,480
I mean there's there's something there. I just wonder if

681
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,279
that becomes if that's a break glass in case of

682
00:33:56,359 --> 00:34:00,480
emergency option for Jason Kidd versus something that they're trying

683
00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:02,039
to incorporate earlier in the year.

684
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,319
Speaker 1: Do you have any early impressions of one Ryan Nemhard.

685
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:10,679
Speaker 2: Way too small? I saw him at Summer League.

686
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: He is grow that's your advice to him, grow five.

687
00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: To nine, Like this is listed at six foot and

688
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,960
I was just he's really really good. It's just it's

689
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,360
a the NBA is the Land of Giants, Like it's

690
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,320
one of those things that people who don't go to

691
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,079
games regularly. So you go to a football game, like

692
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,840
Luka Doncic is three inches taller than Micah Parsons. Right,

693
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,840
these men are enormous that play in the NBA, and

694
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,599
it's like, when you're that small, you might be able

695
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,599
to run the offense, okay, but on defense, unless you're

696
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:45,559
Fred van Vliet and really Jalen Brunson levels of strong,

697
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:49,679
you're getting targeted and teams just because they nowadays, they

698
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,320
just find your mismatch and attack, attack, attack. I don't

699
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,079
care how many big guys you have behind. Maybe I'm wrong,

700
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,000
I would like to be wrong. I enjoyed watching him

701
00:34:58,039 --> 00:34:59,719
play in Summer League. It's just is one of those

702
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,159
things that stands out for me.

703
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,159
Speaker 1: Given this team's need for ball handling and shooting, is

704
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:09,000
there a chance that this is the Jaden Hardy year.

705
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: Jaden Hardy is the most confident basketball player I have

706
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:20,480
seen since Eddie House. He was so annoyingly effective during

707
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:22,960
the Mavericks road to the finals, like he had some

708
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:26,480
big moments in those playoffs, and then last year he

709
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:28,960
couldn't do anything. He couldn't get out of his own way.

710
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,960
He is a very much an ab decision tree kind

711
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,559
of guy. Where he either needs to catch the ball

712
00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:36,639
on the move or catch the ball and shoot it.

713
00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:40,440
Asking him to do something where he dribbles, it becomes oh, no,

714
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:44,400
he's dribbling situation, and I just don't think he fits.

715
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,960
I mean, his agent got him in on a good deal,

716
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,840
because I think had he not signed that deal, I

717
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,400
don't think he'd be in the NBA right now.

718
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, that's it because he's only what is

719
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,800
he on? He's making like what four million bucks that

720
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,239
I think he's on like the year.

721
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: Two of Like, it's a good deal. It's like the

722
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,920
kind of deal you can include in a trade package,

723
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,679
but also doesn't like hurt you know, you're not like

724
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,639
digging into a team's cap and be like, oh no,

725
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:08,719
why'd we sign that guy?

726
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the annual cookie Cutters Last

727
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:15,159
Lightning Round portion of the podcast?

728
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

729
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: So, we've gone over it. But I have to ask,

730
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,360
it's the cookie Cutter question. Looking at the roster right now,

731
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,719
what is this team's single biggest need And if you

732
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,440
have the second biggest need beyond that, feel free to

733
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,199
throw it in. Since we talked about the first one

734
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:28,880
so much.

735
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,039
Speaker 2: I still think dribbling overtakes shooting as a need. Uh maybe,

736
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,199
because I think you can manufacture some good shooting if

737
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,880
you have the dribble penetration to like driving kick because

738
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,360
NBA players are good at shooting balls.

739
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: So just yeah, I mean, and you have Clay and

740
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:45,320
PJ and yeah for.

741
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,559
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, and PJ is even okay, you know, it's

742
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:49,800
like Anthony Davis is like the one room, Like that

743
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,400
guy actually can't shoot, doesn't really matter, but the rest

744
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,159
of them I'm interested in. So I would say dribbling.

745
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: Is there anything about this team could be a strength,

746
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,679
another concern, a story line that's flying under the radar

747
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,719
that you think deserves more of a spotlight as we

748
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,519
head into the season.

749
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: Honestly, the coaching staff, Okay, the coaching staff is good.

750
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:14,239
They have Frank Vogel on the bench, Jay Treano. They

751
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,000
just have sort of a deep roster of guys that

752
00:37:17,199 --> 00:37:21,880
know that our experienced problem solvers in a basketball sense.

753
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:25,559
They have I read the full list of coaches, like,

754
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:28,920
they have eleven coaches for a fifteen person roster, And

755
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,559
obviously that's not abnormal, but that's just that would be

756
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:34,159
my initial takeaway. Where as much as kid drives me

757
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,880
crazy at times. I think he surrounded himself with some

758
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,039
good people to be able to help manage the season.

759
00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:44,599
Speaker 1: What about the overhaul of just the health training staff,

760
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:46,199
however you want to what youever you want?

761
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,519
Speaker 2: Well, when you go from doctor Nick or whoever they

762
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:51,360
had back there in the training staff, it's got to

763
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,599
be getting better. You know, you can't misdiagnose a broken

764
00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:58,360
ankle like that's it's everything will have to improve in

765
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:58,880
that regard.

766
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: I think mine for this team is something I don't

767
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:04,280
get things talked about enough is and part of this

768
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,480
is Nico's fault is every He's just been boxed into this.

769
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,119
This is what he wants, this is what he's doing.

770
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,760
I'm curious, is, like Cooper Flag changes things to some extent,

771
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,840
what is his willingness to adapt as the season goes on?

772
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,440
If this season goes poorly, is he going to move

773
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,320
off contracts and maybe put them You mentioned trading Anthony Davis.

774
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,840
I'm not saying that should necessarily be the endgame, but like,

775
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,639
is he willing to be reactive at least to that

776
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,719
degree if something goes wrong or if something goes right,

777
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,599
if it's clear, oh this team is you know, Kyrie's

778
00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:34,360
back and we're the three seed in the West, but

779
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,079
we need something to get us a little over the hump. Like,

780
00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:38,719
how aggressive is he in going about that? I'm curious

781
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:42,440
what his flexibility is on his current vision for this

782
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:43,639
roster and this window.

783
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: It's a great question. But I if I'm to give

784
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,559
him credit in one regard, it's that he is unafraid

785
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:54,440
of huge swings. When you look at his portfolio of

786
00:38:54,639 --> 00:38:58,000
moves with the Mavericks, every single one has been a

787
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:02,039
pretty big swing. Bringing Christian Would and sending out four

788
00:39:02,119 --> 00:39:04,639
contracts in a first round pick, it's a big that's

789
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:06,920
a big move because it also included one of Luca's

790
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,519
best friends back then, Boban and Marianovitch. The Kyrie trade enormous,

791
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,960
Like we look back on it now and they're like, oh,

792
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,880
it's Kyrie Irving. I mean, Kyrie Irving is coming off

793
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,719
a three year stretch where everybody thought he was insane

794
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,719
and unable to play basketball, and they got him at

795
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,000
what ended up being an okay rate. Uh. The Luka

796
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:28,320
Danciks trade itself, the Porzingis trade for the back back then,

797
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,760
it's just a big So there's a number of his

798
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,679
moves where you've got to say, all right, this guy's

799
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,440
at least willing to take the swing. Because the Mavericks

800
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,559
are projected to be over the second apron next year,

801
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,760
I think that just has to exist as sort of

802
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,440
a hanging chad with what the Mavericks do, because you

803
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,400
always have to be looking ahead. You cannot box yourself in,

804
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,320
and the Mavericks are very close to being boxed in

805
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,599
with where their salary.

806
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,519
Speaker 1: Is right now right, And I think with the second

807
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:55,039
apron too, is people just pointed out it's like dipping

808
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:56,840
your toes in there for one or two years at

809
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,400
a time is fine, but you need to pick and

810
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,639
choose when that one or two year window coming because

811
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:03,199
you don't want to be, you know, start the clock on.

812
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,639
We need to stay out of it for X years

813
00:40:05,639 --> 00:40:07,800
in a row. Otherwise our pick gets moved to the end

814
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,599
of the first round. And if you're the MAVs next year,

815
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:11,760
let's say, if they're good enough, okay, I guess you

816
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,360
could stay in the second apron, but like what is

817
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,039
good enough in that regard? Like, is this team just

818
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:19,840
gonna roll into fifty something wins and look like a

819
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,360
title contender out of the Gate. That's a tough sell

820
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:24,920
just unless Cooper Flag is like an All NBA player

821
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,440
in year one basically.

822
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:28,159
Speaker 2: Right, And I think they're gonna be good enough to

823
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:31,559
be interesting, but still sort of in like that play

824
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:32,280
in mix.

825
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:37,519
Speaker 1: You're building a ten man rotation without Kyrie Irving. Who

826
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,079
are the ten members of that rotation?

827
00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: So we mentioned six earlier, Dangela Russell, Cooper Flag, Klay Thompson,

828
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:51,639
Anthony Davis, Derek Lively, Dan Gafford. That was sort of no. PJ. Washington, Sorry,

829
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,159
that was sort of my mix. The other guys that

830
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,920
you got here have to be Naji Marshall, Max Christie

831
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:06,000
on the run there you have the rundown, you put

832
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,760
down Caleb Martin, but I think it has to be

833
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,440
Brandon Williams. I really think that he's just gonna work

834
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,599
himself up there to be the third guard to where

835
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:16,000
they need it, because Caleb Williams by the end of

836
00:41:16,039 --> 00:41:18,000
last year, it was like, what does this guy do

837
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,559
at an NBA level? It was pretty uncomfortable.

838
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,119
Speaker 1: And then when Kyrie comes back, it's probably Brandon Williams

839
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:25,880
that gets the bump in that situation.

840
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 2: Yes, if he comes back this year, yes, but even still,

841
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,440
you know, you got to be flexible enough to where

842
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,920
if Kyrie comes back with thirty games left, you only

843
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,800
probably expect him to play like twenty.

844
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: If he does come back this year, what is your

845
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,800
appetitor expectation for how much him and D'Angelo Russell play

846
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,280
together or is that something they're going to look to

847
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,079
heavily stagger.

848
00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 2: I think they would. My instincts would say they would

849
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,599
stagger it except for must win situations, just to get

850
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:54,440
the most out of it and really to sort of

851
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:56,840
keep Kid is a guy that strikes me as he

852
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,519
doesn't want to show his cards that much. It's why

853
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:02,440
he kills me during the middle of the year where

854
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,400
it's like January February, they just run dog water offenses

855
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,519
where nothing's interesting, and it's like, well, this is when

856
00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:10,199
you've got to be stacking wins if you want to

857
00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:13,400
be a playoff team. So I expect them to sort

858
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,880
of stagger if that would be the case.

859
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:17,599
Speaker 1: I didn't include this on your rundown, but because we've

860
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:20,480
talked about it so much without Kyrie, what is your

861
00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:23,199
best offensive lineup for this team?

862
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:28,079
Speaker 2: Offensive lineup? Okay, that would vary that that would be

863
00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:30,199
pretty simple where I think you would have to go

864
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:39,599
jan Angelo, Russell, Klay Thompson, PJ. Washington, Cooper, Flag, Uh,

865
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,920
Deck Lively. I think I get the three is the

866
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,000
workable one there?

867
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: Wait, so that hadd Lo flag Lively?

868
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,519
Speaker 2: Did I not say Clay? God? Am I this bad?

869
00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:52,079
At this? Let's try.

870
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: I thought you said Clay and PJ and a D.

871
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,320
I thought it is the guy year.

872
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 2: That's a tough one. See, I think a D at

873
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:06,079
the five is highly overrated because he can't shoot. That's

874
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:09,079
just me. I just hate watching Anthony Davis play offense.

875
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:13,599
It's it's really painful. I'm probably the worst person to

876
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:15,760
ask that question too. But I want to see Flag

877
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,360
in like a a four, like a three to four

878
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,800
role at That's where my center, my focus would be.

879
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,039
Speaker 1: So this is to some extent matchup dependent, But if

880
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:27,920
the season ends, what would you expect to be their

881
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,800
go to crunch time lineup? By then?

882
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 2: Crunch time? All right, that's where Anthony Davis probably would

883
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,039
play the five. So you got Anthony Davis, Cooper and PJ.

884
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:42,440
It is kind of flanking Anthony Davis, and then some

885
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:49,599
mix of maybe like a Max Christi and a D'Angelo Russell.

886
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: Okay, is there a weirdo lineup you want to see

887
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:54,800
Jason Kidd try?

888
00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: I mean in the weirdo lineup's like the basic lineup

889
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,760
we keep describing where it's like he's Cooper flagged the two, Like,

890
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,119
I just I I understand it, but it feels so

891
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,760
two K where it's like you know we're gonna move

892
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,559
this completely. I just I can't. I can't possibly imagine

893
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:15,440
it where it's gonna be so bizarre. That's I don't

894
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,480
want to see it. But that's the one where it's

895
00:44:17,519 --> 00:44:20,480
just like this is for the weirdos and unfortunately, and

896
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,880
it just I gotta tell you a lot of people

897
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,519
in mads Land like just don't really believe that this

898
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:27,719
is what kid's gonna do. It's like he's really gonna

899
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,719
play Cooper flag in a two guard position.

900
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: Well, so here's my thing, and what would be my

901
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,400
pick is that at that point just throw Cooper flag

902
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,320
at the one and then have flag PJ. Nasey a

903
00:44:39,519 --> 00:44:41,639
D and then I guess Lively is the best big

904
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:42,760
for that same that's just.

905
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,599
Speaker 2: I keep leaving nause out and I shouldn't. Nase is

906
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,800
a incredible connecting piece within an offense. He can't shoot

907
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,239
to save his life, but he does everything else really well.

908
00:44:55,639 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when he's downhill, man, hm, he's.

909
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: It's very underrated. They have him on a great contract.

910
00:45:02,039 --> 00:45:04,000
That's where this is just so tough for me, because

911
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:06,440
I think, if you're doing what's best for the team,

912
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,760
that's what you do, and for Flags to I'm sorry.

913
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,880
If you're doing what's best for flags development, you put

914
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,880
the ball in his hands and you say, come what may.

915
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,800
Because if it's the difference between the Mavericks winning thirty

916
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,480
seven games or forty two games, who cares you want? Like,

917
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,400
if that's the difference between you being the tenth seed

918
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,800
or the eleventh seed, you eat that because you're not

919
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,760
going anywhere anyways.

920
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: Before I have you make some predictions. Is there anything

921
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:35,039
or anyone else about this team that we didn't discuss

922
00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:36,679
that you believe Warren's conversation.

923
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,079
Speaker 2: No, But I'm glad you reminded me about Nause because

924
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:47,239
he's just so underappreciated within wider NBA circles. Just a

925
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,199
really talented, interesting, weird player.

926
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: So you and Josh bo your co host on pod Maverick,

927
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,639
did this exercise and on an episode iversen Toro recently

928
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,400
that I loved, and so I want to ask you

929
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,719
about it. What is the floor and ceiling for you

930
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,000
for this team in terms of wins. If you're putting

931
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,519
a ceiling on the number of wins, you could see

932
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:09,760
them getting a factory in the totality of everything, injuries, trades, whatever.

933
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: I really think it's like such a hilariously small margin difference.

934
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,639
Matt Moore HP Basketball said to me one three. He's like,

935
00:46:18,639 --> 00:46:21,119
there's just five games every season for every team that

936
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:23,599
you have to throw out the window in the sense

937
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:25,599
that they could have won it, they could have lost it.

938
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:28,760
It was a complete toss up. They might win those

939
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,199
five games next year, they might lose those five games

940
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:33,400
next year. And I think about that a lot, because

941
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,000
I think the five game margin for this Mavericks team

942
00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:37,840
is sort of their floor and their ceiling. Now, where

943
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,440
you think that Hits is almost entirely up to how

944
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,599
if you think that Anthony Davis is a superstar, and

945
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:46,639
you know, he started out like I don't know if

946
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:48,559
you remember his start to last season, he was like

947
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:51,679
thirty one and twelve for twenty games. He was outstanding,

948
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:54,719
and then he Anthony Davis himself out the rest of

949
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,760
the season, like those twenty games carried his numbers. I

950
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,880
think think their floor is quite literally something like like

951
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:05,679
thirty nine to forty games. Like I think they're gonna

952
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,519
be just fine. I think they're gonna win a lot,

953
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:10,639
and I think they're gonna have losing streaks. But then

954
00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:14,280
at the end of the day, they're too talented to

955
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,239
lose that many games. Even if they can't dribble. They

956
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,519
just have too many good players to be unsubstantiatedly awful.

957
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,199
That's that. But the flip side of that is without Kyrie,

958
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:28,800
and I'm sort of banking in a Kyrie non season

959
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:32,159
in this prediction, not playing at all, I would say

960
00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:34,639
forty five games is like the ceiling just barely over

961
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:35,280
five hundred.

962
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, yeah, that is like a that's a

963
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:39,840
really finn margin forty.

964
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:42,679
Speaker 2: Five and thirty seven or like forty and then like

965
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,079
forty and forty two. It's sort of like my my

966
00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:47,480
ceiling and my floor.

967
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: If we're operating, if we were to operate on the

968
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,400
assumption that you're not getting a Kyrie Irving season, I

969
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,599
think their floor might be lower than that. And I

970
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:56,519
know that like if you're a top tier defense and

971
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:58,400
can like play in the muck. You'll win a lot

972
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,199
of games in the regular season. But without Kyrie Irving,

973
00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:05,000
they're all like their offense is just inundated with question

974
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:06,440
marks and redundancies.

975
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: I think that's true, and I I'll tell you this.

976
00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:15,559
As I make these predictions, it serves me no good

977
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,960
to be to crap on the team, because none of

978
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,400
my fans and people that listen want to hear that.

979
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,840
Everybody wants to be told they're special. So I think

980
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,480
i'm I'm I'm attempting to be optimistic in a large

981
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,719
sense because if things go downhill, then they're gonna start

982
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,280
making some sweeping changes they just have to and what

983
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,440
and that sort of throws all your prediction stuff out

984
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:40,840
the window.

985
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: What's also interesting is I think they're ceiling. If you

986
00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:46,599
get anything from Kyrie, might be a lot higher because

987
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,920
their size and what they can do on defense makes

988
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,719
me like it just wouldn't shock me if this team

989
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,400
won fifty games. I don't know in terms of playoff

990
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,239
threat level, I don't ascribe a ton to that for them,

991
00:48:57,559 --> 00:48:59,719
but just as a regular season team, if they're any

992
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,320
z impoints of healthy, that defense manahould be really good,

993
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,960
and so it wouldn't shock me if they were like

994
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,559
a forty nine to fifty win team. I wouldn't predict it.

995
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,719
And so now I'll ask you this, where do you

996
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,599
ultimately see them landing in the Western Conference standing hierarchy.

997
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,599
Speaker 2: I think they're just going to be in that playing group.

998
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:20,000
Let mean, just go look, this is a good question.

999
00:49:20,039 --> 00:49:23,199
I should have had the final standings pulled up from

1000
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,519
last year because I actually have some spicy takes about

1001
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:30,280
the teams that are around them. So the Mavericks finished

1002
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,239
last year tenth. There was a pretty clear grouping of

1003
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,159
teams roughly from so the Lakers won fifty games, and

1004
00:49:39,199 --> 00:49:41,079
then it goes down and they were the three seed.

1005
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:43,079
The Mavericks were the tenth seed of thirty nine, so

1006
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:49,000
eleven games separated those teams. Kings were for forty wins.

1007
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:51,639
And then there's like a jump up to the Grizzlies

1008
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:55,000
and the Warriors, the grouping of teams that are going

1009
00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:56,719
to be kind of playing for this stuff. I see

1010
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,159
the Grizzlies taking a pretty major step back. I don't

1011
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:01,199
think that's unconstrab versil. Maybe I'm wrong.

1012
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: They might be one of the most confusing teams in

1013
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:04,679
the West.

1014
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. Like they have talent, and

1015
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:09,159
it's it's like, what do you get out of what

1016
00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:10,440
do you get out of the players that you have.

1017
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,360
The Kings, I think are going to be pretty pretty

1018
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,559
weird and in a in a not fun way to watch,

1019
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:19,960
So I think maybe they drop off. Son's obviously pretty bad.

1020
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,639
I think Portland and San Antonio take steps in the

1021
00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:27,039
right direction, but I I don't believe in the Spurs.

1022
00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:29,360
I believe in the Spurs.

1023
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I don't believe in them, but the

1024
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,880
amount of people that think that they're just I know

1025
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,880
they won the minutes with Wemby last year, but we're

1026
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,119
talking about guys who haven't made it through an entire season.

1027
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:39,960
There's him, you have these two young guards and Steph Castle,

1028
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:43,119
Dylan Harper. There's redundancies on their roster. I think a

1029
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:45,880
lot of people are overestimating the challenges they're gonna face

1030
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:46,679
on offense.

1031
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: So I'm with you, well, and I actually think that

1032
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,320
this is not a Wemby knock. I think Wenby's gonna

1033
00:50:54,320 --> 00:51:00,159
put up MVP level numbers, but his desire to play

1034
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:07,000
like early career. Kristaps forzingis drives me crazy. Thirteen threes

1035
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,639
is too many when you're seven to five you shoot

1036
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:14,800
seventy percent in the lane, just just the shot diet

1037
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,159
just needs to shift a little.

1038
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: So that's I agree that to take about a shot diet,

1039
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,639
But I think that it's the Spurs is fault because

1040
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,480
he has been their best floor spacer basically, and so

1041
00:51:26,599 --> 00:51:28,920
you needed that outside volume from him and to get

1042
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,639
him into the lane. I think now that you have

1043
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,840
darn Fox, the question becomes is there enough spacing around them?

1044
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,519
And that's the so I think we will see more

1045
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:39,280
of when be getting easier paint touches. So I agree

1046
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,280
they need to happen. I just don't think the Spurs

1047
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,360
have been built to drum those up yet.

1048
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: So it's just I think they're all in the mix

1049
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:48,440
with those guys like I like my My, my scorching

1050
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,480
hot take is that the Mavericks are going to thump

1051
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:52,760
the Spurs on Opening Night and it's gonna be like

1052
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:55,800
the Mavericks are back. Nico was right, bah ba, but

1053
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,800
and it's it's just gonna be very very silly, great

1054
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:00,800
course fodder.

1055
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: So is there if they make the playoffs. Is there

1056
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,639
like a team that you find to be like a

1057
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,199
particularly fascinating or even concerning matchup for them, I would

1058
00:52:12,199 --> 00:52:16,960
say non Oklahoma City Thunder Division concerning is the Clippers.

1059
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 2: The Clippers beat the Mavericks twice last season towards the

1060
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,639
end of the year so badly. It was like it

1061
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:27,360
was one of those home and home ones in LA

1062
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,199
and it was such a brutal beatdown where I'm sitting

1063
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,960
here going why do we why are we even? Why

1064
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,639
does the playing exist? This is this? This is not

1065
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,039
These are two completely different teams, So it's like that's

1066
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,920
that's sort of the team that that I think they

1067
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,760
could They could absolutely like just get walloped by a

1068
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,840
team that would be sort of fun. And this is

1069
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,400
not just because of the trade implications, Like I think

1070
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,960
the Mavericks and Lakers would be hilariously fun kind of

1071
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,679
like playoff adjacent matchup, not just for the storylines, but

1072
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,360
because of the play styles. The Mavericks have a bunch

1073
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,679
of players that Luca would play really well with because

1074
00:53:04,679 --> 00:53:07,159
he has uh and the Lakers have a bunch of

1075
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:10,480
guys who really really look like the The twenty twenty

1076
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,880
one Dallas Mavericks like it's it's very weird how how

1077
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:15,840
those two teams are built. So it's like the styles

1078
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,079
make fights matchup could be a lot of fun.

1079
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: I would be fascinated to see them play the rockets

1080
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,880
where it's like, are both of these teams the smallest

1081
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,360
player on the court at some point will be six

1082
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,719
to seven six eight, and they could they have Kevin

1083
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,960
Durant Now is I guess this? Their offense shouldn't be

1084
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,639
as ugly, but like, these are two teams I could

1085
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:34,079
really ugly it up on offense and be like try

1086
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:37,079
to down your throats and get to the basket rather

1087
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:38,280
than operate from the perimeter.

1088
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,119
Speaker 2: Watching Amen Thompson guard various players from this Mavericks team

1089
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:44,400
and then vice versa is gonna be a lot of fun.

1090
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:50,800
Like that's where it feels very Spurs Pistons too, in

1091
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,159
those kind of where it's just it's like really good

1092
00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:57,079
teams that just bom And that's that's what I would

1093
00:53:57,159 --> 00:53:59,159
see from with not all of shot making.

1094
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,159
Speaker 1: It's like a movable object. It meets a movable object

1095
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:04,480
basically very much.

1096
00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: That's that's the descriptor I would go with Kirk.

1097
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: This was great as always. Thank you for giving me

1098
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,760
so much of your time like you do every year.

1099
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,599
Are you just able to tell our listeners, watchers, viewers, subscribers, whatever,

1100
00:54:14,639 --> 00:54:16,039
where they can find you in all the great work

1101
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:16,480
that you do.

1102
00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 2: MAVs, Moneyballs where I run website over there, got a

1103
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,639
lot of different people to contribute, you know, from sort

1104
00:54:23,639 --> 00:54:26,239
of all sorts of different Mavericks adjacent point of views.

1105
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:29,280
They just switched over our back end to a different look,

1106
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,360
so our website looks a lot different, which is fun.

1107
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,639
If you want to listen to me on podcasts, there's

1108
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,800
YouTube and anywhere you can get your podcast, look up

1109
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,719
pod Maverick. We record an awful lot during the season,

1110
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,239
so it's like if there's a particular postgame show game, yeah,

1111
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:47,199
game show, if there's a particular game that you found

1112
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,760
worth it, my co host and I are diving into it.

1113
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,039
And so that's that's kind of my main recommendations.

1114
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 1: Thank you once again, Kirk, And as you know by

1115
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,000
now rest of short I'll be pasting you again. Down

1116
00:54:58,079 --> 00:54:58,320
go on,