Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Brandon Hill from Boise, Idaho, and I play at
Eagle Hills Golf Course.
Speaker 1: Welcome to golf Mart. Hi.
Speaker 3: This is Robert Hill from Heburn, Kentucky, and I play
at Boo Links Golf Course.
Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter number one, twenty eight. And now
we have a new mission to prove that we made
the right decision.
Speaker 2: And the right decision doesn't just mean the right decision
for us, it means the right decision for the consumer.
This is ultimately going to produce better product, hopefully at
better prices, and just an all around better experience that
goes beyond what anybody's experienced before simply by buying a putter.
So we like the challenge of needing to sort of
re earn everybody's trust, and so far, I think we're
doing a pretty good job. I mean it's funny, like
you read the comments online. I got really overwhelmed a
week after the announcement was made. And when we screw up,
because we're so engaged with everybody, it always seems like
a much bigger deal. Like when somebody gets a crooked grip,
they put it on a lab rats page with fifty
thousand fans and they lose their minds. But six months
ago we'd put a crooked grip out somebody to take
a picture of it and say what gives and everybody
be like, man, take it easy. They're a small company
from Oregon, leave malone. It's just one grip, don't worry
about it. And people would like have our backs. A
week after the announcement comes up, somebody put a picture
up of a crooked grip up there.
Speaker 1: It's like Cee already cutting corners.
Speaker 3: Lab Golf's newest heel shafted putter impresses old school skeptics
with CEO Samon. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips
and insights from great golf minds to help you lower
your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,
Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.
Speaker 1: Sam, Thanks Fred, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 3: Pal Uh you kidding. I would have you on more often,
but I know that you're so busy doing your own
social media. My god, you're everywhere. It's worked very well
for you.
Speaker 1: By the way. I like it out here in social media.
Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, between the podcasts and the videos and
getting people fitted and showing off their new putter and
how to do it. But I think my favorite has
beat the boss.
Speaker 2: We've got to We've got to get another one out there.
We've got two episodes in the can or one episode
in the can, maybe two, I don't remember, but one
of them is against my brother and it's a pretty
epic match.
Speaker 3: Oh, now that one I'd like to see. I definitely,
because you know I when I was up there with
you and my friend Kevin, uh, we played with you
and Liam and so getting you getting to watch you
two play together is always a who Yeah, he's so
much fun.
Speaker 2: Liam's great and he's such a good player, and we
didn't have him stuck in the shop building putters.
Speaker 1: He'd he could. He could be making a few bucks
at this game, but.
Speaker 3: Probably but you know, I mean, he's living a dreams.
You're you're you're all telling him to live a dream.
Speaker 1: We're all having some fun for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and talk about a dream. So the last time
you were on I remember asking you, so, I mean,
what do you do? Can you sell the company? This
Morne You're like, no, we can't sell the company. It's
too big, no one can buy it. And if the
only reason they'd buy it is to shut it down.
I won't let that happen. And I was like, okay,
I believe you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that I said exactly that really,
but yeah, I mean we obviously had to kind of
mum as the word, you know, when you're when you're
going through transaction stuff and contractually bound enough to speak
of anything.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what exactly our last one was, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've been we'd been you know, working
towards some kind of transaction for better part of the
last two plus years, so we would have been, you know,
at least testing the waters by the last time I
was on your show.
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I mean, everything just moves so fast, and.
Speaker 2: Uh it's it's impossible to convey the just weekly volatility
that is, you know, our lives of this last you know,
three months, and you know, we we pivot a lot,
you have to, you know, in order to to to
compete in this industry. And so yeah, we uh yeah,
we started started a process looking for a potential partner
or buyer a couple of years ago and courted by
any number of uh private equity firms. Once we you know,
put it out to market, a couple of other you know,
potential strategic buyers and stuff, and I found some bad asses.
Speaker 3: And it was so funny that when I heard the announcement,
I was in Paris, Like, you want me to go
knock on a door, I would send you a text
you want me to go knock on a door for
You'd say, maybe I can do while I'm here. I
couldn't believe it. Yeah, it was a Parisian company, a
French company that that invested and so how does that work?
So they there, they don't come in and take over
the company based on what I've read about this private
equity firm that kind of lets people do what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's different depending upon the firm. Right,
like there was be fair like none of the ones that.
Speaker 2: Ultimately you know, kind of made it to the final
you know, eight or so of potential suitors, none of
them had designs to shut the company down and take
it over.
Speaker 1: I mean, lab is a very very unique business.
Speaker 2: There's no it's not like you know, a pe firm
that owns a bunch of gas stations buying a small
little gas station company and just rebranding it and putting
it into the mix, like there's there's no no how
or there's no there's no widespread industry know how of how.
Speaker 1: To do what we do.
Speaker 2: Only you'd be a fool not to realize that a
lot of what makes Labs so special as the culture
and the people and so, you know, to to buy
up a company like ours and then try to do
it differently or better than what we're doing would just
be silly. So the people that were that were you know,
serious about partnering with us all understood that like we
weren't going to leave Cross well, you know that I
wasn't going to go anywhere, and the the you know,
all the executives and the higher level folks that have
been with us since the beginning, we're going to go anywhere,
and uh.
Speaker 1: You know, and they didn't want us to.
Speaker 2: And so with with el Catterton, who you know, yes,
was originally funded by Bernard Arnaut, you know, from Louis Vuitton.
Like just for anybody curious about that association, it's not
the company is not owned by Louis Vuitton. It's El
Cadderton is its own, you know, private equity firm with
thirty years of like a phenomenal track record of doing
what they're doing with us, which is to you know,
let the team that you know that got us here
continue to continue to go. Now, they were tough around
making sure that we had some go forward plans, because
that's what they're buying, right, They're not buying what is,
They're buying what will be.
Speaker 1: And so you know, they they came in and they
they you know, did.
Speaker 2: A seven month long proctology exam to learn every single
you know, in and out of the entire business to
see where and this is where we were pressing them
and the other potential seaers is how are you going
to help us? And you know, before we hit the
cord here, you and I were talking like.
Speaker 1: Initially we just thought the time was right to cash
a check.
Speaker 2: And so we went out and we're talking to you know,
actually a lot of customers who were you know, high
net worth individuals and see if could put a group
of them together to partner with us and.
Speaker 1: And buy some equity.
Speaker 2: And then you know, kind of a year into that
process is when things really started to just go crazy
and our lead times got totally out of control, or
you know, the factory was like just the explosion of chaos,
you know, twenty four hours a day. And it was
then we realized like we needed more than money, like
we needed help, you know, we needed you know, some
experienced personnel, and we needed additions to our team that
could take us to the next level. And that's where
you know, these guys are badasses personnel.
Speaker 3: Are you talking operationally or.
Speaker 2: Think sales operations? Uh, you know, finance everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yes, they're buying the people in the culture
that's up in creswell understood. But bottom line, they're buying
the results that they're seeing. I mean, how much of
this centered around JJ thinking that but to win nothing?
Speaker 1: It had nothing nothing.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we closed on we closed on
July fifteenth. The original letter of intent, I think the
original uh you know letter of intent that we signed
was in early January, so you know, the deal was
in its very very final stages. And yes, the final
stages take six weeks by themselves. So no, it was
it was already done at that point pretty much barring
you know, extraordinary circumstances. But it certainly helped everybody feel
real good about it, you know, and and honestly, for
me personally, like you know, yeah, I'm still you know,
I'm still currently CEO. I'll be stepping down a CEO
in a few weeks to assume a more product focused role,
a founder role and working on acquisitions of you know,
some other technologies to integrate into into LAB. But even
as CEO, you know, being to the last few months since
we closed the there isn't an emotional difference in the
company being ours and not being ours, And there was
when JJ made that putt. You know, I was having
all kinds of anxieties about the deal. It's a scary
ass thing, you know, like in it's my life. I mean,
it's everything that we worked on and to you know,
put it in somebody else's hands from a you know,
a board chair level. You know, it was a scary thing,
and there was something that felt a little unfinished or
something that I couldn't quite put my finger on. And
then when he made that putt, like it just it
was just the perfect closing, you know paragraph in the
chapter of Phase one of LAB, you know, labs arrival
into the world of golf. With that putt was was
totally complete and it just made it feel so good,
you know, to go into phase two.
Speaker 3: But actually Phase one was Bill Pressey and directed force
and you were phase two.
Speaker 2: I think I think of that as the I think
of that as the prologue.
Speaker 3: Okay. And while this was all going on in the negotiations,
everything were you? Was it all on you? Or did
you have a team that you brought in from the
outside that you you used internally to help you guide
you through that You've never been through anything like.
Speaker 2: This, right, So yes, we had investment banking team called
Baird that was there for both just general advice and
then a lot of the technical work, you know, I
mean a lot of it that I'm you know, way
above my pay grade that I don't know anything about,
you know, I mean the quality of earnings exercise was
like I just never imagined that the level of sophistication
involved in making these deals. Obviously they're, you know, a
multi billion dollar fund that does this stuff for a living,
and this is what they do, but I had no idea.
Speaker 1: How how deep they go.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, so the the Baird team was was
very helpful, Like there their associates who were out in
Eugene every other week and helping us through all that stuff.
But they can't do it themselves, like they're there to help,
you know, to help guide us.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: Of the sort of half a dozen you know, executives
at LAB that were a part of this, I probably
had it the best, you know, our CFO, Amanda, I mean,
I'm sure that she had multiple one hundred hour weeks.
And Robert, who's going to be he's currently co CEO
with me right now. He'll be our CEO here in November. Yeah,
I mean, it just it can't be overstated. I mean,
and when we started the process, you know, any number
of people that I reached out to that had been
through similar things would just.
Speaker 1: Be like, dude, like it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's so emotional, it's so intense, and I'm like, okay,
and I could not have been less prepared for the
emotional burden that is this thing. I mean, just the
volatility of it and the magnitude, right, I mean, it's
this huge life altering event for so many people. And
every day there's a you know, a new little fire
that needs to get put out or a decision that
needs to get made, and and then you factor that
in with you know, meanwhile we're trying to run the company,
you know, like while we're doing this, you know, all
of this diligence and all of this stuff, and the
company that we were trying to run happened to be
in the middle of you knows, as you know, absurd
a level of growth as you'll ever.
Speaker 1: See in the golf business.
Speaker 2: And and so not only does do we have to
make a decision on X, you know, or why you know,
we're running inventory or marketing spend or whatever the stuff is,
but then you have to like make your decision and
then look at it through the lens of how it's
going to affect the deal and the transaction and the everything.
And so couldn't make any key hires, really couldn't make
any you know, big ticket purchase on inventory, couldn't you know,
do there was just a lot of stuff that we
were tied up on. So it was just a it
was a wildly stressful thing. And like, you know, just
just like with lab in general, I've always wanted tattooed
on my forehead. Is like, you know, if it was easy,
everybody would do it, and uh, you know, there's your
own that's for sure. Yeah, And it wasn't easy, but
very very very worth it and everybody's happy. Nobody lost
in this deal at all.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's great, that's really great.
Speaker 3: Before you, I'm so happy for you. And when you
say they go they went deep with direction, I mean
when they when they're when you're talking about the pe
going in and looking at your company going deep, what
are they and what surprises were there for you that
you weren't anticipating that kind of depth, that kind of.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, you'd want to interview the CFO or
co o O and to get kind of the grittier
details on it.
Speaker 1: But like.
Speaker 2: You know, being an entrepreneur, Earl, being an entrepreneur is
in many ways just living by it will figure it out,
like you don't actually you know, I.
Speaker 1: Don't, I don't. I don't plan. Man, look at that
if I pull on.
Speaker 2: And I go with it, and you know, the at
the level of investment that they're making and the risks
that they're taking.
Speaker 1: There is no there's no.
Speaker 2: Potential outcome that wasn't deeply scrutinized. And so not only
do you need to make plans, but you need to
make a backup plan, a backup plan for your backup
plan and three more backup plans behind that, and on
every single facet of the business, from personnel to manufacturing,
to sourcing to sales channels. I mean, I mean just
answering the question of what is the total addressable market?
What is the actual potential you know of your customer base.
That was a six weeks long exercise that involves thirty
different very high paid you know, professionals to scour the
earth to understand and determine the actual answer to that question.
Speaker 1: Yes, you can google what's the.
Speaker 2: Size of the total putter market, but like that doesn't
satisfy what it is specifically that they're looking for, So
things like that, things you know, and is.
Speaker 3: There a short answer to that question that takes months
and months and months to to create.
Speaker 2: No, And in fact, on that particular one, I actually
wasn't terribly satisfied with the answer. But I think it's
because it's not like how many people buy putters every year.
Because one of the things that we know with lab
is is that we shifted that, you know, because the
technology was so new it changed can or behavior from
you know, a normal replacement cycle of being say five
years or whatever it is with a putter or three years.
I'm not sure what it is on paper. Now somebody
that bought a putter last year that's you know, a
toe hang putter, face balance putter or whatever, now has
a reason to actually look at another putter despite you know,
whereas they wouldn't have four years ago or five years
ago because they'd just be making a lateral move. So,
you know, there's just stuper nerdy stuff that goes into
you know, determining this stuff and u and then there
there was a huge burden on the operations team and
the supply chain team because of the timing of this transaction.
Lighted landed right in the middle of all this tariff craziness,
and you know, we were we were on pace to
close in March, and then when you know, whatever Liberation
Day or whatever the hell they called it, you know
hit like we put pencils down for six weeks because
nobody knew how that was all going to shake out.
And and for the second time, the fact that a
huge amount of our operation is in the United States
came in real handy. And you know the first time
was when COVID hit. You know, we were, I mean,
we were in such a good position. I used the
analogy I think on one of your shows in the past,
Like we were like the bubble Gump trip boat when
that you know, storm hit, and you know, we were
the only one that managed to make it through with
shafts on hand, and every other company in the world
couldn't get their hands on any shafts. And we had
an ops guy at the time who saw the writing
on the wall and like literally was buying shafts out
of people's garages, I mean, and scoured the earth to
you know, to make sure that we wouldn't run out.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was similar to that in that we were really
lucky in that the impact of all the terist stuff
was significantly less than you know, other consumer brands that
were manufacturing a lot of stuff overseas.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So I read everything I can get my
hands on about you and the company, and I watch
every video I can. If I see your name or
I see lab pop up, I'm and almost every conversation
I have on this show ends up being do you
use a lab putter? Why not? You know, I mean
it's like I'm sitting here, I've got a number of
them next to me. But that's besides the point in
way and you're saying that JJ wasn't the tipping point
for you. Guys, I did read a number and you
can clarify this for me from your growth and what
your sales were in twenty twenty four versus what your
anticipated was going to be for this year twenty twenty
five was three x.
Speaker 4: Uh what did we do in And also when you
and I started talking, you were saying, yeah, we do
about two hundred putters a month, and that's like, now
down to the minute, you do that many in a
minute or.
Speaker 1: So, certainly in the first part of the day. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I've read one hundred and thirty thousand
putters in twenty twenty four and you were supposed to
triple that in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be closer to three hundred and fifty thousand
units this year.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 3: Was how do you wrap your brains around that? I mean,
you're you know, you're we've talked about your past and
our past.
Speaker 1: Either.
Speaker 3: It's like you came from managing bars and bands and
probably employing or managing a handful of people at any
given time too. I guess my biggest question is how
do you convince your family to buy in with you
on this envoy. Are they proud of you now? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Post transaction, I learned a lot about people's lack of
faith in this whole endeavor.
Speaker 1: You know, it turned out my.
Speaker 2: Dad's investment, he was looking forward to using it to
take the losses.
Speaker 1: And it's really funny.
Speaker 2: There's when we raised half a million bucks I think
in twenty nineteen. It was a friend's family and then
just some customers and stuff like that. And my brother,
you know, he has his own company called Meriwether. They
sort of real estate private equity, and they invest in
a lot about stuff, but resorts and stuff like that. Anyway,
he's got, you know, a deal with his partners that
any deal of any kind that lands on any of
their desks has to be offered to the other three partners.
And so in twenty nineteen he's like, you know, I guys,
you know, my brother and I and my dad are
you know in this Putter company.
Speaker 1: We're raising some money. Do you guys want to you
guys want to jump in?
Speaker 2: And I was like, like, do we really have to
bring them in?
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, no, it's good, it's good. It's good.
Speaker 2: And then he asked them and they're like, do we
have to like do we have to get in on this?
And you know, a couple of them put in like
five grand, you know, or ten grand there's something like that,
and they're like.
Speaker 3: I would have been there from that one.
Speaker 1: And then and then what was so funny too, was.
Speaker 2: The guy that actually connected us without Cadterton was a
fraternity brother my brothers, and so we were meeting with
them out in New York at some point and I
was telling exactly the story of just when we were
going around to different friends and family and you know,
asking for a few bucks on this crazy potter company
that was going to be run by Sam, the Stoner
bar owner, and and uh, you know and Mike, who
was this guy that that connected us with el Catterton,
you know, jumped in the conversations like, yeah, your brother
called me to see if I wanted to put in
some cash and I was like, and you didn't.
Speaker 1: He was like did you know you? And I was
I was like, it's like screwing your Mike, but uh yeah,
it was. It was wild.
Speaker 2: I mean, and you know, to answer your question like
how do how do you wrap your brain around it.
You don't like, I don't wrap my brain around it.
It's it's all completely surreal. It doesn't it's the magnitude
of everything that we've accomplished isn't for me anyway. It's
too big of a concept to actually understand in my bones.
And when I get my brain twisted around trying to to,
you know, get around it all, that's when I actually
get pretty uncomfortable. You know, I'm a lot more comfortable
just kind of focusing on that which is right in
front of me, and there's certainly a lot right in
front of me to to work on. But there are
brief moments, you know, there's and I would and it's
so interesting. They're not necessarily the moments you'd think, but
there are just sweet brief moments where I am able
to take a quick one point eight seconds.
Speaker 1: And take god damn, you know. But for the most part, now,
for the most part, it's like.
Speaker 2: Ah, still on the Instagram, dms and stuff like that,
and freaking out about some guy that's waiting for his putter,
and nothing really changes.
Speaker 3: Are you gonna be okay? Not being ceo?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that you that you gave practically gave
birth to you would adopted as an infant for sure.
Speaker 2: So like being the chief executive officer of a business
like this isn't about golf. It isn't about product, it
isn't about I mean, it's sure it includes those things,
but it also includes HR and budget reviews and you know,
and all kinds of very very technical business stuff that
I don't. I just simply don't have the education for
I did a really good job of putting the rights.
No I don't. And now the piece that's exciting about
all of this, like Ikatterson has me sitting on the
board the founder role that they've defined for me, Like
you know, I kind of get to have my cake
and eat it too. I kind of get you know,
I'm the one that's still driving the vision for what
lab Golf is, how we you know, exist in the world,
what benefits we provide to golfers, what the brand tone is.
Speaker 1: I still get to do all that stuff.
Speaker 2: What I don't have to do is, you know, have
any input on what consulting company should get the million
and a half dollar contract to take us through an
ERP implementation. You know, like you know, I don't have
to handle any of that, so and r J and
I are very close and very aligned on what it
is that we're trying to accomplish. And then there's you know,
running the company day to day is a massive lift,
and we're trying to you know, grow LAB beyond what
it is now.
Speaker 1: And so I get to go off and do that,
you know, I get to go off and what does
that mean? You know, we're looking at.
Speaker 2: Other companies, smaller companies out there that you know, we're
little little baby labs that need, you know, help, And yeah,
there's so many great technologies out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I learned in the industry. And
I think one of the things that helped me see
the reality of what.
Speaker 2: The industry is and what it could potentially be is
the fact that I'm not an inventor. I didn't invent
the potter, I didn't invent the technology. I have no
you know, attachment to it, and so I'm still a
consumer and I and now that I've been through what
I've been through with LAB, what I see is tons
of brilliant folks out there with incredible ideas that simply
haven't caught the lucky breaks that LAB caught, you know,
and and haven't been able to put themselves in the
position to catch those breaks or to you know, find
the right partnerships and find the right personnel and all
that stuff. So I get to I get to go
do that. I get to go continue to be an entrepreneur.
And being an entrepreneur is a very very very different mindset,
different skill set, different day to day life than being
a CEO, particularly a CEO of two hundred million dollar company.
I mean it's it's a lot of nuts and bolts. Yes,
ultimately the buck stops, you know, with the CEO and
any number of organizational structures. But we're still LAB and
we still do things a little differently. I have the
utmost confidence in r J. Crazy experience, his wives, he's
he's technically skilled beyond belief.
Speaker 3: And so r J is Robert, who you're referring to,
is your co CEO now and he's taking over as CEO.
Speaker 2: Correct, Okay, yep, yeah, And he's a great dude, and
and with LAB right now for over two years, he's
he's he was brought on as a consultant to help
us kind of figure out what we needed to do
to go to market, to have a transaction and then
you know, we just had such a blast working together. Ultimately,
he was hired as president I think a little over
a year ago, and yeah, man, I.
Speaker 1: Mean he's he came on at exactly the right time.
Speaker 2: Early on, it was important that I didn't have to
answer to anyone, that I didn't have to debate anything
with anyone. And then as the stakes grow, like a
lot of these decisions you need to work through, and
he and I have a very very good yun and
yang thing going on, you know, coming at each other
with not even opposing views and were mostly aligned on
any number of things. But there's a lot of nuanced
decisions that you know take place every day that.
Speaker 1: Need some brighter folks than me, you.
Speaker 2: Know, ultimately at least presenting us with the data and
the information needed to, you know, to make make the
right decisions.
Speaker 3: And did he come from the golf.
Speaker 2: Industry or he did and he was in like my
first conversation with him was I mean, I was basically
trying to talk him out of coming to work for
us because I had this deep aversion to industry folks,
and not only see an industry guy like I mean
lived in Carlsbad for thirty years. He worked for Taylor
three different times. He worked for Callaway, he worked Forever Compromise,
he worked for Adams.
Speaker 1: I mean he had his own marketing agency. I mean
he's been in it.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until we were established enough with our
own ethos and our own way of operating that I
was comfortable bringing somebody like that into the fold without
concern over them sort of diluting it into a you know,
one of the major OEMs. And then he came, and
what was special about r J was like I was
always worried about bringing industry people in because it's like, okay, no, no, no,
you guys can't have a Colors. This is not what's done.
The inventory costs are too high, and da da da.
Speaker 1: And what happened when.
Speaker 2: He came to visit the factory for the first time
was the exact opposite, which is like, thank you. I've
just been wondering for years why people don't do this stuff,
you know, within these you know, massive companies that you
guys are doing right now. And so he has the
experience and the knowledge to know what it is that
we're competing against. And the open mindedness and you know,
passion around doing things differently that that makes this partnership perfect.
Speaker 3: And now are you a major OEM?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure doesn't feel that way. Yeah, I mean we
were talking about that. Yeah, I mean we were talking
about that in the marketing meeting, where like we were
never particularly deliberate about a lot of the messaging around
being an underdog.
Speaker 1: The world sort of did that for us.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and we've noticed now that particularly with the
fact that that that the transaction was announced the way
that it was, like, yeah, the kind of industry tone
shifted on LAB real quick, you know, and expected and
I get it. I mean like it was such a cool,
you know, rags to riches story, and everybody who ever
owned a Lab hutter, or shared a Lab story or
did anything with Lab felt some ownership of LAB. And
I think when people heard that it was sold to
private equity, rightfully, so we're very upset because you know,
you don't hear about the good things that happened with
private equity, and we certainly all have heard any number
of stories of private equity coming in and destroying wonderful businesses,
and so people were upset and we.
Speaker 1: Totally get it, and we actually kind of got excited.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 2: We seem to do better when we've got something to prove,
and now we have a new mission to prove that
we made the right decision. And the right decision doesn't
just mean the right decision for us, it means the
right decision for the consumer, Like this is ultimately going
to produce better product fully at better prices, and you know,
and just an all around better experience that goes beyond
what anybody's experienced before simply by buying a putter. So
we like, you know, the challenge of needing to sort
of re earn everybody's trust, and so far, I think
we're doing a pretty good job. I think people were.
I mean it's funny, like you read the comments online.
I mean, geez, I mean there's the lab Rats page.
I think you're on the Facebook page. You know that's
the fan group, And I mean I got really overwhelmed,
Like a week after the announcement was made.
Speaker 1: You know, we screw up.
Speaker 2: And when we screw up, because we're so engaged with everybody,
it always seems like a much bigger deal. Like when
somebody gets a crooked grip, they put it on the
lab rats page with fifty thousand fans, and you know,
they lose their minds. But it used to be, you know,
six months ago, we'd put a crooked grip out and
somebody to take a picture of it and say what
gives And everybody'd be like, man, take it easy. They're
a small company from Oregon.
Speaker 1: Leave alone. It's just one grip. Don't worry about it,
you know, and people would like have our backs. A
week after the.
Speaker 2: Announcement comes up, somebody put a picture up of a
crooked grip up there is.
Speaker 1: Like, see already cutting corners. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had to you know, just sort of stay
patient and take that, take that as it comes, and
take it for what it is. And we're just going
to continue to do what we always do, which is
like not to be defensive and just to have compassion
for our customers. And like, I totally get it. I
totally get piples concerns about lab and what its future holds.
Speaker 1: And I have the luxury of knowing it's going to
be okay.
Speaker 2: We just need to stay patient and wait for the folks,
you know, with the consumers and our customers and our
fans and stuff to realize like this was such a
wind for everybody.
Speaker 3: I there's a new putter I need to talk about,
but I'm not there yet because you mentioned a few
minutes ago there's lots of great companies out there who
were doing amazing things that aren't getting noticed. But there,
you know, we had a lucky break. What was Lab's
lucky break?
Speaker 1: We had a million? We had a million, Yeah, exactly,
that's that's that's the book. I think that one of
the reasons that we.
Speaker 2: Had more lucky breaks than the average company is again
because I wasn't the founder or the inventor, you know, Like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's part of it. I don't know, man.
Speaker 3: I I've talked to so many small manufacturers on this show,
you know, because that's the ones I want to support,
to these guys like you when we first met in
twenty nineteen, and it seems to be the lucky break,
if I can put air quotes on that. The lucky
break is getting it seen on tour and then having
somebody on tour have success with it.
Speaker 1: Yes and no. I mean, like I think I've shared.
Speaker 3: Adam Scott and you know from way back.
Speaker 2: But I mean I think I remember, I think I
told this story to you on one of the shows.
Like so we just started to get a little bit
of momentum in twenty nineteen when Adams started to use it.
Speaker 1: He was leading the Masters through.
Speaker 2: Two days in twenty nineteen and then the camera like
zooms in on him missing an eighteen inch putt on
you know, on sixteen on Saturday, and the phone stopped bringing.
And it was at that time that we realized, like,
we can't rely on the tour. And I think that
I think that that's that wasn't a break, that was
a that was a smart, strategic just shift that we made.
Literally that Monday, we got on a marketing calls with Zach.
Speaker 1: He had Zach on your show from Rooted Solutions. You
should anyway.
Speaker 2: Zach was, you know, our marketing partner, and we realized
at that moment that we can't rely on the tour
and that we needed to make you know, we needed
to make this about the people actually buying the putters
and not these you know, these these Greek gods that
can do whatever they want with any club in their hand,
you know, like we needed to make it about you
and me, and so we shifted our you know, our
marketing focus and our messaging to be about the consumer.
And I think that that's where a lot of these
companies missed the mark. I think a lot of these
companies have great technology that they're certain is going to,
you know, improve the tour players game, and they just
sit out there and wait.
Speaker 1: And wait and wait and wait and wait and wait
and wait, and it just it's so rare that it happens.
It's so rare that you can get a relevant touring professional,
you know, to really give a look to legitimately new technology.
And one of you know, one of our competitors, I mean,
one of the one of the other companies in a you.
Speaker 2: Know, ZT Space or whatever the hell they're calling it.
You know, we're well beyond us when we started, and they.
Speaker 3: Send it being zero tech, zero torque, right.
Speaker 2: And they which it isn't actually zero torque, but I
guess the industry decided that's what it's called.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: They send a dude out there every week, you know,
every single week, just sitting on the side of the
putt and green with a bag full of putters, just
hoping that you know, a top ten player comes along
and decides to grab it, and they did no marketing,
and they didn't improve the product, and they didn't you know,
engage with their consumers at all.
Speaker 1: And there they are, you know, and.
Speaker 3: So I think I think they Yeah, the huge element
of it was, as we talked about the start, was
the social media element that you're correct, you're all, you're
you're approachable, you're sincere, you don't put on any airs
about being the best out there. You just are what
you are, and it's connected on so many levels. Congratulations,
thank you, I'm very I'm very proud of you for this. Uh,
It's amazing how well it has worked for you, and
how consistent you've been, even through this transition that you've
made and all the stress on it, You're still there
regularly on so many different shows, so many different videos,
so many different podcasts, and you know, and.
Speaker 2: I love doing it and I don't get why other
people don't, you know, like I to me. And I
think this probably came from both the music and the
political background. Honestly, is where I spent most of my
time online, you know, learning to communicate with folks and
and how to you know, use social media to accomplish
a goal. Versus to vent and uh and uh, yeah, man,
I mean it was the only vehicle or avenue that
I even knew to utilize.
Speaker 1: I never gave any thought to anything else. And so
and I think that that's and I think that's.
Speaker 2: Part of one of the things that worked out really
well for us, where like I genuinely enjoy it, Like
I wake up every morning, I enjoy looking through Facebook
and Instagram and looking at other people's products and listening,
you know, reading comment.
Speaker 1: Threads and all of this stuff. I legitimately enjoy it.
Speaker 2: I find it fun and it's not an act of discipline.
I don't need to work at doing it. And then yeah,
it happened to work.
Speaker 1: Out that.
Speaker 2: You know, Yes, being transparent and open and you know,
vulnerable with your with your customers is good.
Speaker 1: That's what we want. That's what especially now, you know,
like there's too much.
Speaker 2: Like the way that marketing that the marketing machines in
all kinds of industries have worked in the past is
shifting so dramatically right before our eyes.
Speaker 1: And the fact is, like one of the things.
Speaker 2: That the biggest shifts is that the consumers more educated
than they've ever been because you don't need to take
the manufacturer's word for it anymore. And it used to
be that the only place you get information about the
new driver was you needing to trust the fact that
the ad that says you get ten more yards is real. Well,
now you can see the ad that says you get
ten more yards, and you go onto YouTube and find
fifteen different people that have actually tested it on a robot,
tested it in their hands and find out if it
is actually, you know, ten more yards.
Speaker 1: So there's no point in doing that anymore.
Speaker 2: And so it's entirely just about you know, doing you,
you know, and letting letting the consumer into the process,
you know, enjoying having them be a part of it,
which is, you know, a staple of how we operate
is just making sure that the feedback that we get
from our customers that we're reading every day is actually
you know, put into the process and put into the
decisions that we make. And I think that a lot
of the other companies out there, small or large, I
think they'd get a little insulated, you know, in their
own little worlds of you know, like if you're a
little company, you need to be you need to be
obsessed with your product, and positive that it's the best
thing in the world and that nobody will ever, you know,
come up with anything better. And then if you're the
bigger companies, you need to stay in your lane and
keep doing what you're doing. And it doesn't seem to
be a lot of interest or opportunity even if there was.
Speaker 1: Interest in in in engaging with and engaging with customers.
Speaker 2: And I think that's where that's why we've been able
to get where we are.
Speaker 3: Well. I think that as far as the online social
media element to it, you and Bryce and are right
up there as far as taking advantage of Yeah, and
people are like Bryce, in no way, I'm like, dude,
hate the ideology, not the people. Okay, let's just we
don't have to go there. Just because he had that
guy on one of his shows, and I think Break
fifty is brilliant, but it's a whole different conversation. So Yeah,
I just think that you've found the magic. You rub
the bottle and the genie came out at the exact
right time in the right way, and it's mind blowing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you and you asked like some of those
lucky breaks like yes, so we had this social media
edge but like, I don't know that lab becomes lab
if COVID didn't happen, Like if we didn't have a
moment where the entire planet got online twenty four hours
a day, you know, like where you know there there
was a handful of moments like that that would certainly
be the most significant that enabled our stick of being
online and connecting with customers.
Speaker 3: And the science proved it, and you know where a
lot of people like, we've we got this brand new thing.
We've got a great new tea. It's like, yeah, but
then there's no science behind it, right, you had the science.
What Bill did with the science improved it, and the
revealer was like, Okay, it's a graphic example of what
it is that you're doing. Made a huge difference. Now,
when we first met and I got my first LAB putter,
what I was so excited about And again I told
this too many times. I started playing golf in my
mid thirties, Okay, and from the first time I started
playing golf, to me, a putter with a center shaft
made more sense than a heel shafted putter. And so
I've been putting and then it was like, oh, look,
Lab golf and they got the science and center shafted.
I'm in heaven here. And so now that I'm totally
hooked on the center shafted stuff and been doing it
for years, you guys come out with a heel shafted
putter to satisfy the desire of the old school putting world,
I'm sure. And it has everything that any old school
or regular golfer is gonna want. It's got the looks
of a normal tipe putter, the D shape, and it's
got a heel shafted but your science is still there.
And so now I'm trying the heel shaft and I've
played a couple of rounds with it, and it's a
real adjustment for me.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I think that you know, you
and I probably and I certainly wasn't this way pre Lab,
but you know, eight years into using LAB putters exclusively,
like I hit the ball.
Speaker 1: At the bottom of the shaft. That's how you want,
just how I.
Speaker 2: Exactly and this shaft, you know, is you know, at
an angle, and as long as I just playing this
shaft and have the bottom of the shaft cut through
right right through the middle of the ball, I'm gonna
make some putts. So yeah, it has been an adjustment.
If I'm honest, I'm not totally sold. I Liam Liam
made me one h earlier, about a month and a
half ago that I really like and and I'm you know,
given at the old college try. And I'm starting to
remember and this is where you and I would depart,
because it sounds like you've used center shafted putters since always.
Speaker 3: I remember you're talking about. I have fifty putters in
my basement and every every round I would play with
the different putter.
Speaker 1: And in fact, I used to use.
Speaker 2: Super heel shafted putters, you know odysty number nine shapes
and in NAPA shape or eightiot or two shape, stuff
like that, super toe down heel shafted putters. And so
I'm starting to like remember what I liked about lining
them up and.
Speaker 1: All of that. But we don't make putters for me,
you know.
Speaker 2: We make putters for for for for everyday golfers. And
like the fact is, and I totally get why, because
I did have the experience that was different than you,
where center shafted putters made no sense to me early on,
Like I always, I couldn't stand them. They set up
shut and super messed up to me.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: I'm just so happy to see people who were, you know,
clear as day that they would never be able to
use a center shafted putter having that lab experience, you know,
having that holy crap, I just let it go and
it just squares itself up and where I need to be.
Speaker 1: And so you know, that's what's so happy making about it.
Speaker 2: I the one regret I have about it, and nobody
to blame but myself.
Speaker 1: I had my team even trying to talk me out
of it.
Speaker 2: But the stock release that we did, we did with
the press gript two degrees beforeward shaft lean and then
a two degree press gript on it.
Speaker 1: I didn't really appreciate that without the shaft going in
the middle and without a.
Speaker 2: Knowledge that you need to sort of that you you
need to lean the shaft forward to get it to
set up. A lot of these first time lab people
are lab potentials, are going and grabbing you know, the
os hs with two degrees of lean a two degree
press grip on it, and it's setting up really shut
to a lot of people. And it's just because most
people set up putter down in their brains trying to
make the shaft vertical. If you make the shaft vertical
with two degrees of shaft lean, the face is going
to shut. And so the zero degree lean, which one
did you get zero lean or with a press grip
on it?
Speaker 3: Well? I had a two degree lean on it. And
my nephew, Calvin Green, who works for you, We're not related,
but he said, you know, because of where it sits
on the face and the butty, you might not want
to do, okay, So I won't do the lean, and
and then it kind of limited my grips too, because
I love the press two grip that I had on
my d F three and my my OS one, but
I couldn't get that, and so I was but it
had that the grip that it had had a ridge
down the center that really hit a finger wrong. And
that's what I've never liked about the the DF two
point one was the grip had this ridge down the
back edge that hit my finger wrong, one of my
fingers wrong. And so he said, well, just so Calvin's like,
just go get a grip that you want.
Speaker 1: That's the nice part about zero.
Speaker 3: And that was beautiful and I sent it to him,
and it was three days later it was back to me.
I ended up getting a wind grip thick, but it
didn't have that ridge back in the back of it.
Speaker 1: Yes, the same yeah, that it.
Speaker 3: Came to a point and just hit my finger wrong.
Gave me a yeah. I don't know, I was just whining.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean it's it's a great putter. It's
going to keep getting better, and it's.
Speaker 3: Going to satisfy a lot of people who've probably been reluctant.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 3: I think that's a huge thing. So are there more
Potter designs to be had?
Speaker 1: I mean, no, that's it. That's it.
Speaker 3: You're done, Okay, No one's ever going to buy the company.
Speaker 1: We've always got stuff in the works.
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, that's one of the most
wonderful things about you know, the our new owners here
is like I mean, our R and D team is
twice as big as it was three months ago. Our
technology and the machinery available to us in order to
you know, develop.
Speaker 1: Product is.
Speaker 2: Is twice as twice as much as it was, you know,
a few months ago. And so now we.
Speaker 3: Have he's got enough land it, you have enough landed
it Criswell to expand operation and build out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. It's really, really, really great.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm so excited about the product side of things.
And you know, I've actually kind of the last eighteen months,
I haven't been nearly as involved as I would have
liked to have been, just because my world was.
Speaker 1: About getting that deal done.
Speaker 2: And now that it's done, I get to get back
into the R and D room with the guys, with
the engineers who actually know what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's just awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean, and and and the timing too was amazing too,
because we finished the R and D space. You know,
when you were there, it was still a pool, right, Yeah,
there was a pool and a jacuzzie and that atrium.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, barbership in the barbershop.
Speaker 1: And that was on the other side of the building.
Speaker 2: But yes, the problem shop is now the break room
and the pool and the spy area is now, you know,
totally state of the art R and D space and
to really being able to we're going to be pushing
some stuff forward that the next the next twenty four
months of product coming out of Lab will be profound.
Speaker 3: And we'll have our eye on it again, Sam, to
you and your brother and your dad. I'm so happy
for you, guys, and I'm so happy for the company
and everybody that works there because I've witnessed it firsthand
that it is about the people and the culture. You've
done an amazing job over there, and I'm just so
incredibly proud to be a witness to it from this close.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Fred, and we could not have
done it without you and the other Fred Greens of
the world that have enough of an interest in this
stupid ass game to take time out of their day
to record stuff and tell our story. And I appreciate
you how