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Banter Wealth is going to help you with UH with
a better vision of your financial future. It is time
for little Cougars in the pros. I want to talk
relative athletics score. I want to talk NFL combine and
how Jack Kelly compared to the field, how Chase Roberts
compared to the field. And also I want to discuss,
you know all the time, who's been the most athletic
guys to come out of byu per their NFL combine
and their their their pro day scores. So this segment's
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creator the aggregator, the algorithmic initiator of the relative athletic score.
We go. I can't leave platty on the like, can.
Speaker 3: How the heck, are you fantasmic to be on.
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, it's a combined season, which means we got
to delve into the data with your platform, Kent. What
is you know? What is relative athletics score? Give us
a foundational approach for those that aren't familiar with your
your metrics, your process, your algorithm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a lotive athletic scores. It score has been
around since twenty thirteen. We take all athletic testing from
players at the pro day and at the Combine and
their pro days, and we score it against their position
group all time from nineteen eighty seven all the way
to the player's draft year. We do everything on a
scale of zero to ten, so it essentially works like percentile.
When you're looking at the individual scores, you just kind
of move the decimal place over one. We compile all
those scores and create an average. The average is compared
again to every player at that position group. We can
put it on a zero to ten against. We can
get a nice clean zero to ten athletics score for
the players. It's all stop light color coded, so everything's red, yellow,
or green. The intention is just meant to create a
way to very easily under and how athletic a player
is when compared to their peers. Just at a glance.
You can tell by looking at it.
Speaker 1: Where they are.
Speaker 3: You can look at the scores and understand where they're percentileized.
It's a really good way to just evaluate the relative
athleticism of a player.
Speaker 1: What have you learned about about this particular metric over
the years, Like how long you been doing this, what
is your background and what have you learned about this
metric as it pertains to athleticism and eventual maybe productivity
or athleticism on the football field. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think what people get wrong about it a lot
is they look at raz and they think, well, that's
that's like a determination of how good a player is,
And that's not what it's doing. It's just looking at
athletic talent only, and it's only using the metrics that
we test every year. So you get this nice lake
for lake comparison where you can look at the speed
of someone be able to compare it one for one
for what it would look like for two different players
because they all run the same drills, they all do
the same the same What's nice about that is for
comparison purposes, you can get a good idea of how
athletic a guy is, but it doesn't tell you how
good they are, And a lot of athletic traits aren't
necessarily covered by the drill that we do at the combine.
So it gives you a good idea of what athleticism is,
but it should never be your b all end all
for anything. Sometimes you have a player who's super athletic,
but they've never played football before. We saw that with
I forget the player's name. He came from Germany, but
it was on the Minnesota Vikings for a little bit,
a little bit. You know, he's super athletic guy, but
he barely played football. But if right Lions drafted a
player out of BC UP in Canada a year or
two ago, and that's the same thing a player that
has a completely different sport essentially, I mean, it's football,
but it's not the same type of football. So athleticism
is a part of evaluation, it's not the entire evaluation.
I think once people understand that, it makes it a
much more valuable tool because you can look at players
who don't necessarily test the best, but you can still
find a use form on the football field. Even with
any of their poor tests, because if there's the test
really in an area that they don't necessarily use, who cares?
Who cares? It's like, it doesn't make me a better
driver because I'm really good at finding the right radio station. Right, Yeah,
like that's helpful in a little bit, but that doesn't
help me make me a better driver.
Speaker 1: You know, these are differentiator things, right, You're going to
look at two maybe same similar players and productivity, and
then maybe you differentiate by by athleticism. Is that what
you would say?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good way to use it. If
you have a couple of players that are very similar
in skill sets and you're trying to figure out which
one you would prefer between them, it makes a good
way to say, well, I think this guy has more upside.
There's more to what he can do than what we've
already seen. We can develop him pass where he is currently,
whereas a player doesn't necessarily have that. Maybe they're relying
on their field awareness to be able to do certain things.
That has a cap too. Maybe it's maybe it's not
the same ceiling that you're looking at for the players.
It's also a good differentiator for scheme if you run
a scheme that really requires a lot of fast players.
You see that with the Chiefs. The Detroent Lions did
that for a little it. You know, any teams that
you speed, they're probably not gonna draft the guys that
don't run fast, And if they do, it's going to
be for a role that doesn't require that kind of speed.
Speaker 1: What's a good example. Who's a good example over the
years of someone that's not all that athletic or just
an average athlete, but a very very good NFL football player.
Do you have some kind of these iconic figures that
didn't test all that well but balled out in the
National Football League.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's always players like that. And that's another thing
I think people will lose sight of is that the
stuff like relative athletic scores not to find only the
good players, because you want to find those diamonds in
the rough.
Speaker 1: Two.
Speaker 3: One of the best ones in the NFL right this
moment is a BYU player, which is Puka. Google only
had a five point one to eight. We know that
there's a possibility he was injured during the pre draft process.
I wasn't ever able to confirm that, but I heard
it from a couple of different people. But even so,
his score wasn't the greatest, and he's one of the
best wide receivers in the NFL when he's healthy. That
happens quite often at the wide receiver position because there's
so many different ways to win at the wide receiver position.
You don't necessarily see that from tight end. Tight End
kind of got to be athletic to be able to
do what they do well. Same thing with pass rushers.
There aren't a lot of pre athletic testing and past strussures,
but wide receiver there is a whole bunch of them.
You see, the same thing for running backs. You know,
a power runner doesn't necessarily need all those timing drills
because that's not really what they're there for, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's very intriguing. I think bringing up Pooka
is a valid a valid example. All right, Well, let's
talk relative athletics score now, as it pretends to be
yu who are all time like the best testers from BYU, right,
the best athletes in a combine setting coming out of
Brigham Young University with your historic your combine and your
pro day performances in front of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I started looking into that a little bit.
And if you're looking at across all time, there's actually
two RAS scores. We keep one that locks in at
the player's draft year, and there is an all time score,
so we can compare things side by side. So I
wanted to use that score. It's not necessarily the player's
regular res but the all time score. The highest score
of all time for BYU was Scott Young from two
thousand and five. Even way back then, still tested like
a boss, and that score holds up over time. More recently,
Chanden Herring, Brady Christensen, Blake Freeland. A lot of offensive
linemen come out of YU that have really good athletic testing,
and you know, you've seen these guys coming up for
a while. It's not quite a factory, but it's on
the production line somewhere.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Ziggyanta is probably one of the most well known guys.
Extremely athletic coming out of school and use that athleticism
to his advantage. He was very raw from a coaching
perspective when he was first picked up in the draft,
but a player that had tons and tons of athleticism.
Fred Warner had a nine point seven three. We're not
even past nine point seven three, Like this is the
top ten guys in the ninety seventh percentile. For some
of these guys, Taysom Hill obviously lots of athletic talent
there went on to use that in the NFL. Kingley
Suwamataya another guy with super athletic talent. The school has
been able to produce a lot of really athletic players
in the NFL values that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: It is. You know, you look at what BYU's done
in like the percentile or just because traditionally Byu is
not viewed as like the athlete creator in the National
Football League, but you're looking at these test scores like,
oh wait, no, these guys are like the best of
the best. This is the lead of the elite. Do
they have a branding problem with the athletes they're producing
or what?
Speaker 3: I think the success has to really play out in
the NFL to get that reputation right because the fans
don't really care about the testing as much as they
do the on field product. The diehards like myself, we
love the draft. We love following everything related to the draft,
we love following the numbers. All that stuff really hits
home for us. For most people, they want to see
those wins and they want to see the players perform
on the field. I think a lot of players that
come out of YU have been more rough when it
comes to their actual technical ability on the field. I
think that's where that development comes in, because it's not
just about being athletic. You have to be able to develop.
One of the reasons that Zigiyanza had the success that
he did was that the Detroit Lions at the time
were running that wide nine scheme and he was just
such a perfect fit for that pin your ears back
and rush the quarterback that they needed those wide nine
ends to do. So it was that schematic fit combined
with that athletic talent, and they didn't use him pretty
much at all, like they didn't at Byu. Byu didn't
use him. How the Detroit Lions ended up using him,
but you put him in a role that he really
thrived in and he was able to excel at that.
And maybe that's what they're doing wrong. Maybe they're a
little bit too generalized. Maybe they're not making people specialize
as much as they should be. A lot of colleges
have this issue of preparing their players for the professional
football for being at that next level. Because they're concentrating
on winning, they're not necessarily paying attention to how can
we also develop these guys to becoming great professional football players.
So it really boils down to what they're trying to
do with the players, and I think that BYU doesn't
really focus on the professional aspect as much as they
do developing the players to be as good of football
players in college as they can be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to like have a same similar scheme
to run in college with like the supporting casts that
are around some of these high profile players or highly
athletic players. To make that transition in a linear fashion
to a same simbilar scheme in the National Football League,
that's very difficult to do, Right, That's a tough thing
to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that level of talent comes and hit you like
a ton of bricks, no.
Speaker 1: Doubt about it. Kent Lee platty math bomb on X.
You had to follow him. He has created the relative
athletics who are aggregating all of the pro days, all
of the combines, putting a grade to the athleticism of
everybody that has ever participated in a combine. Why you
had a couple of guys s out out to the
Indianapolition Day and the Combine. Jack Kelly had him shelf today.
Let's break down who's performance. What stood out to you
about Jack Kelly.
Speaker 3: Kelly I think scored as the third highest linebacker at
the combine. He had a nine point eighty one RIS
and that's with almost all of the drills. He didn't
do the bench, but he did everything else. He did
the agility drills. Almost nobody does the agility drills of
the combine anymore. They do them very late in the process,
right before they do drills, and a lot of players
just skip the agility drills to do the on field
drills because that's where the coaches are looking, that's what
the people who are going to draft them are paying
attention to. The NFL really does have a scheduling problem
with their combine. But even then, he did pretty well
at those agility drills. He had a ninety first percentile
shuttle and he had a seventieth percentile cone, which is
very good for both of those. And the cone was
actually his worst score at seventieth percentile. Everything else he
tested in was above seventy, above eightieth percent of they're
all in that green so they're all in that elite
range that we consider for each of the TEP his
explosive drills, which are really big for a lot of
coaches for linebackers. He had ninety third percentile broad with
a ten foot five broad. He had a thirty seven
inch vertical, which is a ninetieth percentile score, and he
ran a four or five seven in the forty, which
is phenomenal for a linebacker. So all those athletic traits
that you want he was able to pull out. I'm
pretty sure he's the highest rated player from BYU this year.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: He's great. Kind of in the mid round. Should see
him going in like the fourth or fifth round. Probably
he could sneak into Day two, but he's probably going
to go early Day three.
Speaker 1: Love that breakdown. You know, you wonder if he's going
to just stand on all those times or and just
do field work at his pro day? What would you do?
I mean, it doesn't look like he's really got to
prove himself athletically. He's already in the top percentile of athleticism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if any of the coaches, I'm not sure if
people are concerned about it. If any coaches have any
issues with strength, they're going to want to see his bench.
They're going to want to see what he can put up.
He has pretty arms compared to linebackers these days, so
the bens shouldn't be that much of an issue. Shorter arms,
you tend to bench a lot easier. Just from a
physics perspective, you know, you don't have to worry about
going up the side. Yeah, but you know he's I
would expect him to stand all his times. I wouldn't
expect him to rerun anything. He might rerun that cone,
I don't. I don't know if he's going to be
as that, but it's plenty good enough. But you know
how these guys are, they're super competitive. The same thing
is true probably with his explosion drills, even though they're
his best drills. I would bet that he tries them again,
just because a lot of guys really want to try
to up one up themselves.
Speaker 1: Chase Roberts also went out to the NFL Combine. He's
got great size for a wide receiver. How did he
tested out? Per Relative Athletics score?
Speaker 3: He was actually one of the lower rated wide receivers
in this class. At the combine in terms of athletic testing,
but that doesn't say a lot because this this combine
is kind of a weird one. We had a fewer
people tested this combine than any of the other ones.
A lot of people want to say that the trend
it's not really this year is just kind.
Speaker 1: Of a weird one.
Speaker 3: The thing that a lot of people are going to
point to is this forty yard dash time you're in
a forced explore. That's not very good. I think what
people need to realize, though, is that's also not very bad.
Like that's not a terrible time. It's not great. But
he's a bigger wide receiver, so he has other traits
that that teams are going to value, that teams are
gonna want. The speed's not that big of a concern.
His explosion drills were really good. Both of those were
above eightieth percentile. When you have a bigger wide receiver,
that's very important. You want a guy who can have
some burst and be a little bit explosive. He compares
very favorably to Kean Coleman, who came out a couple
of years ago who said some mixed success in the NFL,
but that type of receiver, and teams are always looking
for guys like that, guys that they can put up
and go up and get some footballs. I think he
has a role in the NFL. He's probably looking at
a later Day three projection. I don't think the speed
hurt him at all. I think that that just kind
of validates what you see on tape with him. He's
not a burner, But what's really going to hurt him
is actually his linked the same problem that we had
with Jack. Kelly's arms just aren't very long. When you
have a bigger receiver, you want them to be as
lengthy as possible to maximize that advantage that their size
gives them. But if you have it has good enough
route running ability, if he shows good enough strength at
the line, I don't think that's much of a limiting
factor either. I think this is still a plenty athletic player.
He ended up with a seven point eighty one overall
so far, still has the agility drills in the bench
to do. I'd expect them to do the agility drills.
A lot of players that are bigger wide receivers, coaches
tend to want them. Skill's got to run the agilities
to see if it's a weakness. Wide receivers almost always
skipped the bench, so I wouldn't expect to see him
do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you brought up Keenan Coleman six four, two
fifteen out of Florida State. He was the second round pick,
thirty third overall. That's who your your athletic comp is for?
Chase Roberts.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's the one.
Speaker 1: What about Jack Kelly? Who did you mention? I don't
know if you did mention who's your player comp for
Jack Kelly?
Speaker 3: I didn't, but I did have a good one for
him too. He comes very closely to Drew Drew Tranquill,
even even right up to where his draft projection is.
Frankle was taken in the fourth round. He's been a
pretty good role player in the NFL. He's a good linebacker,
he's a starter. He plays really well. He's not a superstar,
but he's a good enough playayer. He gets plenty of
playing time. He's been on the Chargers and the Chiefs.
He's probably going to continue playing one of those guys
that's just going to grind out a really nice, productive
NFL career. And I think that Kelly's going to face
the same kind of road to the NFL to convincing
teams that he has that value. He's just got to
grind it out and show that he can be a
reliable player on the field. Coverage is always going to
come up, especially when you have speed, which he does.
If he can show himself to be a reliable coverage linebacker,
then then teams are going to put him on the
football field because there's there's downs that you want guys
like that. If he shows that his pursuitabilities are good enough,
he's going to be on the field for the running
drills a bit more limited in that in previous years,
the run game is coming back like a mounting storm.
So maybe maybe that's going to be even more favorable
if that's his skill set. But I think that he's
got a role in the NFL. I think that's why
he's projected kind of in that that early days three
range because teams know that he has that ability special
teams abilities in another area that guys like this can
shine in, and I don't think there's gonna be much
of a concern to that. You get a linebacker that
can run a four to five seven, that's a gunner
right up front. You can throw him right at there
and have him gun You can have him take guys
out very easily. He's two forty. That's gonna hurt run
of the that scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, let's go back to the Puka conversation and
some of these VAYU players that are in the NFL.
Is there anything in his like athletics score that that
would tell you, hey, this guy is going to be
a diamond in the rough When McVeigh and his staff
ended up drafting him in the slot that they didn't
like from a return on investment, for the quality and
what they got in productivity, it's probably the best ROI
in in that draft from that class, from where they
got when they paid for them. It's not even close.
So is there anything in the athletics score that you're like, Okay,
like this was you could tell possibly. I mean, he
was a productive college player, but he wasn't like absurdly
politnik off type of productivity, you know, So I'm like, Okay,
is there anything there that you're like, Okay, this is
a good indicator of a great football player, productive football player,
even though he didn't test out in the elite to
great level.
Speaker 3: There really wasn't, and you know, we have guys like
Cooper Cup who actually test. His overall score was in
that same kind of right around five range. But Cupp
had that an elite test. He had an area that
he was elite in from a testing standpoint, and he
also used that very widely on the field, So making
that projection was a lot easier when you're looking at
the athletic traits and then comparing it to the on
field ability. But Poopa didn't really have that. Excuse me.
Everything was kind of mediocre. His explosion girls were very
middle ground. He had a thirty seven percentile vert and
a sixty third percentile broad, so they average out to
about five. His forty yard dash was four five six,
which is just barely above bare average for a wide receiver,
so not very great there, and his agility drills were
below average for each of them. His cone was very bad.
He had seven point three to two cone, which is
only sixteen percentile. So he didn't have any areas that
he stood out in any meaningful way from an athletic perspective.
I think when you're looking at a player like that,
you're relying almost exclusively on the tape. When you're looking
at the testing for Puka, you're really just looking at
a guy who doesn't have enough. It doesn't have anything
that's a significant weakness. His agility drills might be if
that's something that you really wanted from him as a player,
but his explosion drills not being fantastic. That's not a
green flag, but it's not really a red flag either.
Same thing with his speed. We know that Puka is
not a burner. He's not one of those super fast guys.
He's never has been. So having a middle of the ground,
a middle of the round speed isn't a big deal
because that's not where he excels anyway. So it's not
a limitation. So it's more that it isn't telling you
anything negative than it is telling you something positive that
you want to jump on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look at some of these guys like Tyler
Alzier and kyros Toni. They just got they just got
contracts right they they're in They they were maybe drafted
a little bit later in their draft class, but they've
been productive and they're they're great football players. Had how
did Tyler and Kiris specifically test out coming out of
their pro days? Their combine performances.
Speaker 3: Well, Algier was like one of my one of my guys,
and then you know, we talked about that when he
came out. This is the guy that I really really liked,
and I was super excited for him, and he actually tested,
uh in a way that you don't usually see, and
when you do, it's it's a productive profile. So he
didn't have a profile of some elite, top tier athlete,
but he did have a very similar profile to a
lot of very productive NFL running backs, guys that don't
have that elite speed, but they excel in other areas
and they're able to use that in in a productive way.
You know, it was really exciting to watch him actually
find that NFL success because because he projected in such
a way and we could actually see it. Uh, see
him get picked up again for another contract is really
exciting because he get to keep seeing it. Who is
the other one that you had asked.
Speaker 1: About, kyrist So there's tylarier than Kyris.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just got signed too, that's right, Yeah, yeah,
and earlier to stay right Yep. His was a seven
point Yeah, his was a seven point two two as
a defensive tackle. I'm pulling it up right now. I
didn't have that one prepared.
Speaker 1: Okay, I went off because of all the pre agent
news that just occurred.
Speaker 3: That happens. Yeah, seven point two is fine. So from
an overall perspective, you're you're not looking at anything that's
super negative. This looks to me like a nose tackle profile.
He's got got really good weight, really good bench. His
ten yards split's good, his broad's good. Those are all
all big nose tackle indicators. Didn't have very long arms,
which would generally be a ding against the nose tackle. This,
it looks from an athletics standpoint like a productive run
defender type of profile. Somebody that's not necessarily going to
be great side to side, but if you want them
to take up space or barrel forward, you're going to
be able to get that. I haven't watched enough of
them to be able to say if that's exactly how
he plays. But from an athletic perspective, there's a role
for guys like this. There's a productive role for guys
like this. You can find a way to use them
very easily.
Speaker 1: Love it can't appreciate our time. As always, we invite everyone,
what's the best way to support, to you what you do,
how you do it. For all of our listeners, we
always invite everyone to check out the website.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the website is our as dot football. You can
go out and look at any player from nineteen eighty
seven to today, where we just passed over thirty thousand
players on the website. I think twenty twenty six thousand.
I think of them have scovers. A bunch of them
don't cause they don't test. You can check out my
website there, that's the best way.
Speaker 1: To do it.
Speaker 3: You can also check me out on Twitter at math bomb,
and I'm over on blue Sky as well also as
math Bone, so I'm very easily accessible. I'm a little
bit less active this year than I am most years.
I'm still going to be doing all the scores and
putting out all the work. I just won't be quite
as active on the socials. But social media and the
website are the best ways of support, and I do
it every year. Been doing this for fourteen years now,
going on fifteen.
Speaker 1: Do fantastic. You need to hire an intern just to
churn out all the content on social media. That's the
next step, Matt, Come on, let's go baby, we need
that social media content.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's always been my mistake because I always take
on interns to like teach them coding and try to
find good ways to help them advance themselves in the
metrics field. But I really should have been working on
the social stuff.
Speaker 1: Just get just hired to do the social stuff. Just
churn it out, copy and paste it out there. Man,
that's what you need to put it out to the
masses and get people subscribing to your content. You did
great work. A couple of guys to look out for
if they're pro days from BYU, so that you know.
I think Tanner Wall's going to test out extremely well.
Actually talent Alfrey could test out well. Moriy Bomba I
think is gonna kill it in the forty. This guy
is a blazer. I think he's gonna find himself on
special teams. Maury Bomba is a guy to look out for.
And then I think Isaiah Jada as well as gonna
test out really well. Good athlete, really good ath To
keep an eye on those guys when they pop up
for their pro days.
Speaker 3: We'll do for sure, all.
Speaker 1: Right, can't leave platty ladies and gentlemen. We appreciate you,
thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on man, appreciate you all right.
Speaker 1: The math bomb can't leave platty. We'll call that a segment,
A great segment with Candid as always, we love talking
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We'll be back. Do you want to get to know
Kyler Casper a little bit better? How about a player profile?
Kyler Casper six foot six, two twenty transfer from Oregon.
Originally a four slash five star recruit coming out of
the Great State of Arizona. Now he's a BYU Cougar
looking to make some hay, looking to get some plays