WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.599 Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the 2 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:14.960 Elixer Mix. Today on our panel we have Audi, Hello, Alan. 3 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.679 Hello, Hello, Sasha, Hello everybody. 4 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:19.239 Is this your first week back? 5 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:21.960 Yes? Regular it is. 6 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:26.160 How how cool you are why we invited you back? 7 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:32.320 So yeah, a while ago, I as the guests joining 8 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.240 the podcast and talking about the library of Mind, Nigger 9 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:38.759 and like behaviors and looking. I've been using alex for 10 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:44.479 like a four years now and focus the libraries published. 11 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.399 So it's great to know be here and talk to you. 12 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:50.640 Exchange oudiens, happy to be here. 13 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:51.159 Nice. 14 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.520 I'm Charles Maxwood from dev chat dot TV, And yeah, 15 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.759 so we decided to talk about kind of the history 16 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.479 and evolution of Alixir. Yeah, I think I kind of 17 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.439 want to start this one off and kick it off. 18 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:05.719 So the first podcast episode that I ever did related 19 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:08.799 to Alixir was on Ruby roachs and he has no 20 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:10.879 surprise to anybody, I think if you've been in the 21 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:14.439 Elixir community for very long. We interviewed this guy who'd 22 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.280 been in the Ruby community for a long time, written 23 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:19.319 a whole bunch of Ruby libraries, ruby gems, started a 24 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.719 Ruby consultancy, and then he went off and was fiddling 25 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:27.000 with this airline stuff and decided to write Elixir. So 26 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.439 it was jose Vaalin and so yeah, we were like, well, 27 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.640 come come tell us about this this thing, and so 28 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:35.400 he came on and he talked about Elixir and it 29 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:37.280 was kind of like this funky thing that he did 30 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.959 on the side while he was still writing all the 31 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.840 ruby stuff that we all used. So anyway, it's come 32 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.159 a long way since then, obviously, But yeah, I like 33 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:50.120 that flavor, right, because you never know if the wacky 34 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:54.319 project is going to turn into something that's it this 35 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.239 ecosystem that all these people earn a living at, right. 36 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:01.760 Yeah, It's it's kind of crazy how fast things have 37 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.680 kind of been rolled along, right that this language just 38 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:06.280 came out what came out quite some time ago, but 39 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.439 it still feels like quite new to me, although it's 40 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:10.800 been changing a lot, especially with this recent one at 41 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:11.400 twelve release. 42 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:13.960 Yeah, I'm kind of wondering what are kind of the 43 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:18.960 big milestones or sign posts I guess in Elixir's history 44 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.520 that you guys see, right, I mean some of them 45 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.879 are going to come in I guess after you discovered Elixir, 46 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:29.080 But what what were the turning points I guess that 47 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:31.280 got you in in the first place. 48 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.159 Right, It's actually something which I'd say that got me in. 49 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.000 When I started with Elixir, it was just because my 50 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:41.400 employer used the Lixir, so I basically had to. But 51 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.919 when I started, I think that was one point four 52 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.879 or one point three, we didn't have a formata back then, 53 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:49.680 so it was always like we always had these discussions about, Okay, 54 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.800 how does the code look like superformata. It is like 55 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.759 the superf like that. So it was pretty cool when 56 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.680 I'm not sure which version accepted, but when Lyxi finally 57 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:02.560 got the opinionfomata and a lot of these discussions just 58 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.639 died down because the formata did this for you. 59 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.039 Right. I have a question for you, Sasha, regarding that. 60 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:12.280 So you said your employer was using it. Were they 61 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.840 using it with Phoenix or were they using it for 62 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:18.080 something else like Nerves or some other project. 63 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:21.719 Yeah, at that point it was Phoenix. I think Nerves 64 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.439 wasn't even in its existence back then, so I mean 65 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.080 that was probably about four years ago. Maybe it was 66 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.879 already there, but that definitely not a speaks today. So yeah, 67 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.240 it was. The company I used to work back then 68 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:35.680 was doing a lot of I WoT stuff. So the 69 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:39.360 real time capabilities of Felix. They were pretty nice in 70 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.319 that area, which is why are you using it? 71 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:45.479 Right? The other question I have related to that is, 72 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.560 so you came to it through a job, And it 73 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.759 seems like a lot of people when they go look 74 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.879 for their next job, it's like, Okay, I've got fifty 75 00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:01.039 zillion years doing JavaScript or Ruby or GHP or Python 76 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:03.560 or whatever, right, And so they go and they just 77 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:06.560 kind of stick with that technology because they've got so 78 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.879 much seniority and they can kind of talk their way 79 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:13.400 into whatever kind of job they want. So what made 80 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.439 you take a job where you were going to be 81 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:16.879 working in a different technology. 82 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.399 The main reason was actually because I was switching over 83 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:23.639 from a mobile developer job with like occasional backend what development, 84 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.519 to like a full time back and development job, like 85 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:32.120 junior side. Because I'm a previous employer, I did mostly 86 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:35.319 iOS development, but I did the occasional PHP back end 87 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.199 and that was always something which I enjoyed more So 88 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.040 I was looking for an opportunity to work more in 89 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.040 that area. And then I came across this other company 90 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.120 and they used the licks here and the functional language, 91 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.279 and I was like, oh, it sounds interesting. Enough and 92 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.240 now I'm here today, so things, I guess things work out. 93 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:53.240 That makes sense. 94 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:53.959 Yeah, so me. 95 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.040 It's one of the things I remember is so something 96 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.639 very simple and trivial like the with statement that we 97 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.439 now take for granted ALEXA. When it came out, it 98 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:06.519 did not have that, and I remember even using I don't. 99 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:07.879 Think that was even unless in all those things. 100 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.360 And I know even using IF was like, don't use 101 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.519 it unless they really want to use it, because it 102 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.519 IF kind of uses case within like cases like the 103 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.800 main statement. And it was actually my first job too, 104 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.519 doing elexir in twenty fifteen, and so it looks it 105 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.560 was like just one pointer at that time. And when 106 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:29.600 they introduced with statement, it really kind of cleaned up 107 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:31.920 our code quite a bit, because you know, now you're 108 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.120 thinking in terms of the railway pattern, right, like returning 109 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:39.279 okay result or error error, and that just cleans up 110 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:40.279 your entire controller. 111 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:41.360 And then Phoenix kind of. 112 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:45.079 Adopted that pattern with the fallback controller, right, like cleaning 113 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.279 up that error as well, and like standardizing what error 114 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.519 is your APIs or return and stuff. So I think 115 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.160 that with kind of catalyzed that entire list of tools. 116 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.000 I was a really big fan. 117 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:00.240 Of with Ford was basically nested case statements all the 118 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.360 way down, right, like a lot of case statements, and 119 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.279 there wasn't much anything else you could do. Like that 120 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.519 was the way things were written it which also made 121 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:10.480 sense when you think where Alexi came from from what's 122 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.759 of Berlin, because that's how you do handling and arline. 123 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.800 You do the case statements, or you pet on if 124 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.720 you match explicitly on the okay with radio when you 125 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:22.319 say okay, I want to raise you, but yeah, right. 126 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.199 Or use the pipe operator, but the functions kind of 127 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.480 can take okay or error energy like your entire pipeline. 128 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:33.920 Definitely you have written code like that. I've just looked 129 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:35.839 at the release notes from the LICKS and like the 130 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.519 format actually came in one point six, but there's a 131 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.160 lot of good stuff in one point six. Also, a 132 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.920 dynamic supervisor came in there, so that was something we 133 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:47.560 didn't have. I mean, I remember that that the supervisor 134 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.639 still has the simple one for one strategy, right, which 135 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.920 is like kind of akin to the dynemic supervisor. But 136 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.199 there's one thing about the simple one for one strategy 137 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.120 that it's like a lie. It's not simple. It's it's 138 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.439 definitely not simple understand that. I mean, we had to 139 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:05.959 use it in one project, and like, I mean, it 140 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.360 was pretty new to addix. Yeah, so I was like 141 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.240 trying to read the documentation and I grabbed my head 142 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.319 around and I just I just failed. Just went to 143 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.480 a colleague at some point and please explain to me. 144 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.639 Yeah, I'm kind of curious because I can't like pick 145 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.040 out the features or anything because I've just kind of 146 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.040 been watching the community more than participating in it. And 147 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.160 over the years, like it was kind of this thing 148 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.000 that was just kind of out there, you know, and 149 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:36.040 and the Airline community was also another community. It was 150 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:37.759 just kind of I just kind of watched it and 151 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.519 it's kind of steadily grown. And then I don't know 152 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.639 what it was, but at some point it seems like 153 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.000 the Elixir community just really took off. And I'm not 154 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:49.600 sure where, I'm not sure why, I'm not sure what, 155 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:54.199 but it really took off. And about I want to say, 156 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:57.319 about four or five years ago was when it really 157 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:00.160 kind of kind of caught up with me that a 158 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.879 lot of the friends of mine that I had connected 159 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:04.879 with over the years in the Ruby community, it all 160 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.800 moved to it a lot of the people that I 161 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:10.839 knew from some of the other communities that moved to it. 162 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:13.920 I was actually getting asked on a regular basis when 163 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.680 I was going to start an Elixer show, so we 164 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.839 started this one. I mean, was there something around then 165 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:25.160 that really just gelled? Was it that they finally there 166 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.759 was Alixer comp and there were some of these other things. 167 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:30.519 Those tend to be more the symptoms of the community 168 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.120 growing rather than the cause. I'm trying to put my 169 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:36.799 finger on, you know, Was there any one or several 170 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.480 things that happened around then that that kind of came 171 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:40.279 together for it? 172 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.639 I guess must be like the bigger companies kind of 173 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.840 adopting it, like Pepsi e commerce and I know, cars 174 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:49.519 and you know, like the like who were in like 175 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.919 more legacy kind of a programming language, just them adopting it. 176 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.559 I actually remember like a more quantifiable like difference, the 177 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:59.000 difference in the number of responses, the number of people. 178 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:03.240 In alexir conf twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, they announced 179 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:05.879 it at the keynote that the number of sponsors they 180 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.639 have more than quadrupled in one year. 181 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:12.799 And it's just that what happened during that time. 182 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:13.440 I don't know. 183 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:16.200 Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I mean, I think 184 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.519 another thing that I saw at the time was and 185 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.720 I guess this isn't a technical milestone, but so I 186 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:27.360 got invited to CODEBAM in twenty twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. 187 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:29.679 But there were a whole bunch of talks for Yeah, 188 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.799 these bigger companies that were talking about and they weren't 189 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:35.919 like talking. Some of them were talking about how they 190 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.480 had built their infrastructure on the Beam and how they 191 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:40.799 had built a lot of it on a elixer. But 192 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.159 more than that, they were talking about how they had scaled, 193 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:50.919 how they had lowered the response times, and a lot 194 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.679 of the concurrency setups that they were doing and things 195 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:57.519 like that. And so they had actually solved a lot 196 00:09:57.559 --> 00:09:59.759 of the issues that existed in some of the systems 197 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:03.360 that they it had before by migrating to Elixir. And 198 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.799 some of them were like these huge setups like WhatsApp 199 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.159 I think was one of them. I think Discord does 200 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.519 a whole bunch of stuff in the back end with Elixir. 201 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.120 There are a whole bunch of other ones and they 202 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.559 were like these massive massive back end systems that either 203 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.440 run in like dedicated data centers or running the cloud, 204 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.759 and I mean they just like crush the amount of 205 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.559 bandwidth and data that just just course through them. And yeah, 206 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.559 I think people really saw what elixor systems were capable 207 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:40.440 of that you couldn't do with say a no JS 208 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:45.240 or a Ruby on rails, and people started saying, Okay, well, 209 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:49.679 if I need say data overforms, then dot net Ruby 210 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.240 on rails, that makes sense, right, But if I need 211 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:57.759 if I'm sending raw data, audio data, if I'm sending 212 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.360 gobs and gobs and gobs of data, it makes a 213 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:04.639 lot of sense to have a system that can handle 214 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.399 the volume of data, but not just the volume, but 215 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:14.799 the sheer number of discrete messages at a time. And 216 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:17.639 that's that's where I think people figured out, oh, yeah, 217 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.039 I need something that can do this. And Elixir was 218 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.519 easier for the developers to digest than earline. 219 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.039 I think a huge part of that is also how 220 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.279 easy it is to pick up Phoenix, because I mean 221 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:34.480 you just also, yeah, to like submit the form right 222 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.000 safer form. It's super easy in Rails, but it's also 223 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:40.919 super easy in Phoenix, so you can get started pretty 224 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:44.279 easily there too. But then the skating story is a 225 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:48.720 completely different one. So while earline, yeah, it is certainly 226 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:51.559 something which could also super easily handle these these these 227 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.519 skating scenarios, it's not as easy to pick up as 228 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.039 serious So I think a lot of success came from 229 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:00.080 that too, that that people could see, Okay, yeah, this 230 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:04.399 can scale two different in different ways and maybe better 231 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:06.879 than than other technologies out there, but it's also not 232 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.360 as super hard to pick up as some of these 233 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.240 more let's say these things totally. 234 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:15.080 Yeah, that's definitely I think a huge point. And as 235 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:16.799 you guys are talking about it, I just like it 236 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.360 kind of reminded me of my older daid Alixa, and 237 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:21.919 like why did I like Elixer, And I just like 238 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.080 I also realized, like everyone around me seemed to just 239 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:29.600 leve Alixer and the involvement of you know, Jose and 240 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.639 Christma code in the community and like listening to feedback 241 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.679 and advertising, and Jose was being involved in like Phoenix 242 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.360 and writing marks and like kind of driving the community's 243 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:44.080 vision forward while keeping it fun for developers, right, Like 244 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:46.240 I mean, like everyone who's worked with Alixa wants to 245 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.159 work in the Elixer. So like companies who've adopted a 246 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.080 lix a little bit have no choice but to adopt 247 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.360 it more because people who work there want to keep 248 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:59.080 working in Alixer. So yeah, like in twenty fifteen, my 249 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:03.720 first job project we built with the company's first Elixa app, 250 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:07.279 And in twenty twenty we're probably building it's thirty thirty 251 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:08.320 of the Elixa app. 252 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:11.519 So just like because I didn't want to build Ruby 253 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:12.200 on rails app. 254 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.240 So yeah, it's interesting too. A friend of mine, he's 255 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:19.279 actually the one that recruited me at my current employer. 256 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.840 He just let everybody know he was leaving, and he's 257 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.799 going to a company that was founded by the folks 258 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:29.200 that founded the company that I guess I'm it's kind 259 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.039 of the company I'm at that was acquired by the 260 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.799 company that I'm at, So they they're his former bosses, 261 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:38.159 not mine, but because he'd been there for several years. 262 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.759 But yeah, they're doing rails and Elixer, and I'm wondering 263 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.639 if it was that same kind of thing right where 264 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.919 they started with rails, because this company uses rails pretty 265 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:51.000 much exclusively, and then that somebody brought in the Elixer 266 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:54.600 and it's just kind of taken over most of the 267 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.480 new stuff it sent me. 268 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:01.159 Something I observed with my current employee because also use Elixir, 269 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.519 and we use Rails, and we have some very very 270 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:06.919 long term Rails developers. We're like really attached to Rails 271 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:09.679 and Ruby. But we are also some colleagues who like 272 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.320 don't didn't have a lot of Rails or Elixir background 273 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.960 before they joined. And what ends up happening is that 274 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:20.360 especially the people who don't have like a strong attachment 275 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.679 one way or another after a while, prefer to write 276 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:27.240 things in elix heir. I can't like point to specific 277 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.879 things and say, okay, this is one reason why. But 278 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.679 it's an interesting trend. I've observed that, like if people 279 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:38.120 basically don't don't come with pre attached notions, they tend 280 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.759 to like cover Okay, like maybe I write this additional 281 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:45.120 service in elix Hea just because I like it to 282 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.480 do that that way. That's certainly something I've observed for myself. 283 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.480 I mean, I'm just add the unicorn who did Ruby 284 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.519 after I did elix heir, so I never wrote a 285 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.960 line of Ruby before I've already written a bunch of 286 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:01.960 lines in elix heir, So my my justment's probably bit 287 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:07.240 clouded there. Yeah, it's interesting to see how people act 288 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.000 to these technologies, even my dad experience before. 289 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:11.679 Yeah. 290 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:13.720 I try not to be too precious about it, but 291 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.360 at the end of the day, I get in and 292 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:21.080 I eventually just want to get crap done. And Rails 293 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.600 is just the thing that I'm most familiar with, right, 294 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.000 and so it's like, oh, I just banged out four features, 295 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.080 right instead of I had to go figure out how 296 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.159 to do this in Phoenix too, because I didn't know 297 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:34.159 how to do it before. But I can definitely see, 298 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.480 you know it, it has some characteristics and I see 299 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:41.120 the performance metrics on Alixer and I'm just going, holy crap, 300 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:46.679 that is just fast. So another milestone that I am 301 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.399 fully aware of and was around when we interviewed Chris 302 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.679 record for or when it came out, was live view 303 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:58.879 and that was I mean that that was a big deal. 304 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.000 And I have some friends that have kind of duplicated 305 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:07.080 that for Rails with stimulus right, stimulus reflex, But that 306 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.559 was amazing. That was freaking amazing. 307 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.159 Yeah. 308 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:14.240 I was actually on very elixy, kind of like a ELIXACONPUA. 309 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.399 When when Chris mccle also did a demo and that 310 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.080 was like super impressive because it did like it did 311 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.000 this demo with like the way animated things. By the way, 312 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:24.840 you also said like, okay, it's a super bad idea 313 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.080 to do the animation with live View, but just to 314 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.840 show you like you can, like it works. It's fast 315 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:31.039 enough to do like an animation. 316 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:31.759 It's smooth. 317 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.559 So yeah, that was insane. Just did to see like 318 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:39.200 this this thing on stage live by Chris and then 319 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.240 it really took up steam. I mean they you just 320 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.120 mentioned stimulus Reflex, but there's also like a PHP kind 321 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.879 of version of it, and I'm not the one ninety 322 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:47.440 percent sure how it's called that. 323 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:53.240 No, it's it's rails. It runs over action cable on 324 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:53.759 the rails. 325 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:56.440 Yeah, I know, like as soon as we fixed it's 326 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:58.399 all raised. But that's also a p spe clone of 327 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.600 Life View. Like I'm not more on hundred percent. 328 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.080 Yeah, there are other plans of it. 329 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:08.519 Yeah, that one's called live Wire And actually, if you 330 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.480 know Alpine Alpine actually came out as from the same 331 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.359 guy and now we're using Alpine within Live View, right, 332 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.279 So there's a lot of things that actually come outside 333 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.839 the community that also inspire or help out us, to 334 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.240 which I think is something that we should talk about 335 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:24.640 too because or something that needs to be mentioned at 336 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.359 least because it seems like we always inspire people, right, 337 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.279 Live View came out and it seems like an explosion 338 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:32.480 of people doing similar things like live Wire, and I 339 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.079 think the wine and Rails, if you guys, is that 340 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.559 culled stimulus or is that steamus is something else similar? 341 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.160 And then there's yeah, now we got Alpine, right, and 342 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:41.960 that came from the PHP community and that's part of 343 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.480 the table, that's part of the pedal stack, right. 344 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:45.960 Which is pretty huge. 345 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.240 Yeah. I keep wanting to do Alpine on jobs for Jabber. 346 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.039 We just haven't managed to get them around yet. But yeah, 347 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.960 it's brought about kind of these mini frameworks bringing them back. 348 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.960 And I think Alpine was also like a big prompt 349 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.799 for Christmas call too at these script hooks into by 350 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.839 a few. So it was interesting to see like all 351 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.920 these ideas bounced back and forth between like these like 352 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.799 different communities to inspire of it to build something that 353 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.559 bigger than the parts of this the governments, some of 354 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.839 the products. I was curious to see, like, well, what's 355 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:18.759 going to be the next big thing? Right? Like I mean, 356 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:25.200 we just talk Life View. It's like thing X yeah yeah, 357 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.000 yeah probably yeah. 358 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:33.400 Well that's interesting too because NX is the mathematics library, right, yeah. 359 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:38.839 And what's interesting to me is that, so I host 360 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:40.640 a whole bunch of the shows on the chatout TV, 361 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:45.000 including adventures and machine learning. And what's interesting is is 362 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.480 that we keep having conversations about some of the limitations 363 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.599 of Python and JavaScript, because because those are the two 364 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.680 primary languages, mostly Python and and specifically in their ability 365 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.359 to parallelize, and Alix are laying beam languages kind of 366 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:08.160 have I figured out yeah, just saying right, And so 367 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.240 I keep thinking that, yeah, if you can train your 368 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.720 your models and you can just here's the data, go go, 369 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.039 go right, your limitation is your number of fours. 370 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.079 Yeah. 371 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:21.240 Hey, folks, if you love this podcast and would like 372 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.440 to support the show, or if you wish you could 373 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.119 listen without the sponsorship messages, then you're in luck. We're 374 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.480 setting up new premium podcast feeds where you can get 375 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.400 all of the episodes released after Christmas twenty twenty without 376 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.119 the ads. Signing up will help us pay for editing 377 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:36.519 and production, and you can go sign up at devchat 378 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.960 dot tv slash Premium. 379 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.039 It sounds like a great fit for Aleksir. 380 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.480 Yeah, but when when I when I learned about that, 381 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.079 I was like this, I thought that that would like 382 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.480 break a lot of things, like bigger than live view 383 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:51.279 at it. Yeah, it's just it's almost revolution and the 384 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:56.039 amount that Jose is invested to see us through like 385 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.839 they I know that within seven days of announcing n 386 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.599 they had started and like kind of gotten like a 387 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.279 neural network's library action on like workable. 388 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.759 Like that's the amount of hours they're putting into it. 389 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.079 It's crazy. 390 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:15.039 It's super cool to see how Jose is also contributing 391 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.240 to like stuff beyond the core language, right, Like I mean, 392 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:20.400 what's Broadway and stuff like a lot of a lot 393 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:24.599 of really cool things an ex accent also have like 394 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:27.880 just has Today's do they has his hands in there? 395 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.960 Like it's pretty cool to see that. Yeah, I was 396 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.480 super impressed by an accent, but that they did most 397 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.240 like pretty much all of that was done without getting 398 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:39.880 new stuff to the language, like having these what's it 399 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.200 called death and when the computation happens on the GPU 400 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.440 if I remember correctly. To be honest, that's not my area. 401 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:48.319