WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:07.440 Get ready for. 2 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:17.120 November twelve, twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing 3 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.000 we call a calendar, This the O'Kelly effect. You hearing 4 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.719 it live. If you're hearing me, oh, about ten minutes 5 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:27.079 after seven pm Eastern on a Tuesday tearesday, believe it 6 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:29.280 or not. Now, this is an odd time for me 7 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.879 to start, but I wanted to start early and talk 8 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.920 to Larry Hancock this week. Why we're ten days away 9 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.039 from JFK Lancer twenty twenty four, which will be held 10 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.560 on November twenty second through the twenty fourth of twenty 11 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.679 twenty four, and I'm slated to be the live MC there. 12 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:49.880 So there you go. I should be on my way 13 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.719 to Dallas in well less than ten days from now, 14 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:55.280 because if I'm not on my way from Georgia to 15 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.600 Texas in ten days, if I'm not on my way 16 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.719 before the twenty second, we got problems because I can't 17 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:05.840 get there by bullet train, okay, and I'm not going 18 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:10.319 by airplane anyway. But that Friday we'll kick off the conference. 19 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.480 Virtual tickets available as well as in person go to 20 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:18.599 Assassinationconference dot com. That is where you can go and 21 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:21.439 use the code ocelly ten. By the way, to get 22 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:25.439 ten percent off student tickets available, Like I said, virtual 23 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:28.040 in person, whatever it is you want to do, get 24 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:32.400 that ten percent off with the code o'celly ten. Anyways, 25 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.120 Larry Hancock is with me. I always say it, but 26 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.560 he takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf, 27 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.879 and not just taking up space giving me a lot 28 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.799 of information on not just the assassination itself, but today 29 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.319 that's what we're going to talk about, and a couple 30 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.359 of things that may or may not have happened depending 31 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.920 on what conference, and a couple of the legendary incidents. 32 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:57.480 Because you know, when you get a bunch of people 33 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:01.959 together to do this, there's always some sort of information 34 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:06.159 that is shared that is interesting, amazing. There's always people 35 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.919 going over maybe some old material that they might have 36 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.039 gotten a new look at. There is always new information 37 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.840 coming out because things do get wrenched free from the government, 38 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:21.400 new information, new witnesses come forward, new people start to 39 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:26.080 make statements or published books, et cetera, et cetera, and man, 40 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.400 it's always a big, huge learning experience and there are 41 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:36.000 unique occurrences that occur at the conferences, and I think 42 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:37.919 that's part of what we're going to talk about tonight. 43 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.840 But before we get there, Larry Hancock, how are you 44 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:41.560 doing tonight, sir? 45 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.280 Oh, I'm doing fine, Chuck. And I certainly wish I was. 46 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.599 I was going to the conference this year. Age and 47 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:52.759 health permit that. But I did attend the conference in 48 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:57.000 person for over twenty years and was a host and 49 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:01.960 moderator for at least a full decade, so a lot 50 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:05.759 of personal experience, and I can absolutely confirm what you said. 51 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.800 There are personal experiences that you would get there that 52 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:13.039 you could never replicate any other way, whether it's in 53 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:18.080 the conference room, the hallway, the bar out on the street, 54 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:22.360 and the plaza you know, at a certain Italian restaurant 55 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.680 that Jack Ruby used to frequent, you know, just to 56 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:29.120 get the sense of the place at the conference, and 57 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:32.120 also in the plaza. I will say, if you haven't 58 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.319 been in the plaza, you really aren't prepared to talk 59 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.919 about the shooting in Dallas. It just you you don't 60 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:45.560 have a contextual feeling for the space in any event. 61 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:47.759 So part of it is the conference. Part of it's 62 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.599 just being physical in Dallas, and I miss that. But 63 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.879 you know, twenty two, twenty three years was a pretty 64 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:55.439 good run look. 65 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.439 Fair enough, but and you do not get a sense 66 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:00.719 of things. I mean how close to get other stuff 67 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:04.520 is like the building that Oswald was killed in essentially, 68 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:09.240 you know, like it is right there, only a half 69 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.840 a block away from where Kennedy was killed. Regardless of 70 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:17.399 who you talk to. You know, the curious tight space there, 71 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.360 the ramp that nobody can recall seeing Jack Ruby go down. 72 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.439 Sure you can see all that stuff in the plaza, 73 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.079 a very small area. I mean, I remarked, even from 74 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.360 the railroad bridge. You know, that's another thing. You go 75 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:34.439 up on the bridge, you got a bird's eye view 76 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.800 of the entire area. That's always curious to take that 77 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.600 in for yourself, and especially if you've been watching these 78 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.519 things like on TV and on documentaries for years and years, 79 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.600 you don't really even have a sense of things, no 80 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.959 matter how many different ways the camera's gone after it, 81 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.279 no matter how the camera's gone into the school book 82 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.879 depository and shown you pictures through the windows, whether it 83 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.920 was in the sixties or later on in the eighties 84 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.759 before they put in the six to four museum, which 85 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.720 that thing is there now, you know a lot of 86 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.720 stuff has gone on in the plaza and the entire 87 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.079 history of this, you know, it stems from there. And 88 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.600 you're not far from the hospital. You're not far from 89 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.519 where we saw the you know, the press conferences with 90 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.160 Jesse Curry and everything else occurring. Jack Ruby lurking through 91 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.480 the hallways of the what do they call that the 92 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.000 Public Safety building, right, which is where the police all 93 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.600 are and where they dragged Lee Harvey Oswald through when 94 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.639 he's saying, Hey, I'm just a patsy and all that 95 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.800 kind of all of this stuff in a very small space, right. 96 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.639 Part of it is, part of it is physical. I mean, 97 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.839 there's no way that you could appreciate the angle of 98 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.120 descent going down Elm Street without seeing it live and 99 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.720 in person. And if you're a shooter, I don't want 100 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:59.040 to hear anybody talking about how easy or easy it was. 101 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.399 Not a shot until you fully appreciate that angle of 102 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.920 dissent and what it takes to hold your target, not 103 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:10.160 on a level target, but on something that's changing angles 104 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.920 quickly over a period of time. You just if you 105 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.519 haven't seen that, you're not ready to talk. If you 106 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:21.120 haven't stood in the positions of the various witnesses whose 107 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.319 stories you read about and look around and go, oh, 108 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.240 they said they heard the shot from Oh behind them, 109 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.000 behind them is not towards the school book depository. The 110 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.279 newman said, Oh, it came over my shoulder. No, that's 111 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.079 not the school book depository. You know. One of the 112 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.000 things is if you go there, you need to take 113 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.319 your list of witnesses that you've read their testimony and 114 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.160 you think a certain way about stand there, see see 115 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.079 if you read their descriptions to yourself, and see if 116 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.879 it makes any sense with the official story. You know, 117 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.480 go stand where Brennan was standing, and you know, look, 118 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.079 you know what do I see when I really look 119 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.240 up at those zepper floors? And you know, that's a 120 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.720 very important part of the experience. But the other party 121 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.720 experience is emotional as well. When you when you go 122 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.079 there and you think, well, you know, Jack Ruby was 123 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:20.079 kept in a cell overlooking that plaza for months. What 124 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:24.600 was going on in his mind? You know what? What? 125 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.800 What's the emotional context you go over? You know, so 126 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.120 part of it's seeing what you can see personally. You 127 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.199 go over by the tower, the railroad tower, see what 128 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:39.000 you can see from there. You go look down the 129 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.160 fence line and see what Ed Hoffman could or cannot see. 130 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.439 Don't don't take what anybody wrote about any of that. 131 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:49.199 Go see for yourself. But so there's an emotional element 132 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:54.000 and there's a very you know, reality check on what 133 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.120 you've been reading that you really can only get if 134 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:57.079 you go there in person. 135 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:59.759 Well, right, even taking a look at cars going down 136 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:03.920 the road and standing where Mary Mormon was with her 137 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:08.720 you know, one shot instant camera, Okay, it is pretty 138 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.639 interesting how she even captured that. That photo is pretty 139 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.639 amazing because the timing is so interesting. And if you 140 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.439 take a look at the way the traffic comes by, 141 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.920 now granted it is a motorcade. I mean, all these 142 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.519 positions are of interest. Whether you go to where sm. 143 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.160 Hollyd was, you know, where his perch was, and like 144 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.600 I said, I appreciate that. And then when you take 145 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.440 in some of the accounts combined with what could you 146 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:38.360 see from the particular position that they claim to be in, 147 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:40.840 where were they photographed? By the way, because we do 148 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.000 have a lot of photographic evidence now regarding where people 149 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.799 were at exactly what point they were at, where the 150 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.960 police ended up really quickly. I mean, all of that 151 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.919 stuff comes. 152 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.919 Together, Like Brendon was not looking at but the sixth 153 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.960 floor window. Now we have photographs that show what he 154 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:02.399 was doing. Now, wasn't even face in the right direction. Well, 155 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:04.440 you know, and that's why I refer to this as 156 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:05.559 a sanity test. 157 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.039 Well, plus I love how he can look up six 158 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.240 floors now, just this is always my favorite point. And 159 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:14.519 again I'm not a guy who maybe some people go, well, 160 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.600 how would you know, Chuck, your your vision's bad. Well, 161 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.639 here's the thing. When you're working with very little vision, 162 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.320 you pay a lot of attention to certain things, and 163 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.279 you try to make notes of details because you've got 164 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.679 less information to work with. Well, here's my question, how 165 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:32.200 is it you're going to tell somebody's height from that? 166 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.519 That's the weirdest thing is he gives a height for 167 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:39.679 Oswald supposedly right when he's looking up six floors at 168 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:42.879 least right six floors depending on elevation, though it might 169 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:46.039 be more like seven floors. Okay, But either way, you're 170 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.039 looking up at that through a window which was probably 171 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:52.679 not perfectly clean. But even if it was perfectly clean, 172 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:57.639 you're looking up through a window, you know, go ahead, 173 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:57.960 and a. 174 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.639 Window which is two feet lower than most windows are 175 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:04.360 the windows on that floor are much lower at the 176 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.440 bottom than a normal window. Yeah, not like I said, 177 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.639 you just estimated it. Well, okay, let me the windows 178 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.440 normally the X feed up from the floor. That's not 179 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.399 the way it is in the school book depository. 180 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.679 Right, So you know a window that's lower, okay, with 181 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.200 a lot of boxes which should have been able to 182 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.639 be visually seen through the window, regardless of how they 183 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:29.720 were arranged. That's another issue. But you know, and you 184 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:33.519 could pick out really quickly how tall somebody was, the 185 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:38.679 tone of their skin, the color of their hair. I 186 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.919 got to call a little bs on that. But anyway, I. 187 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.600 Led walking tours there for years and years and years, 188 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.960 and we'd spend probably an hour and a half walking 189 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.879 the plaza, going to different locations, and we are ending 190 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.240 usually was okay. Now there's a fellow that's claimed that 191 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.440 he was three blocks away and he saw a person 192 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.639 in the window and the detail here's the detail he gave. 193 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.039 Now we're gonna walk down there, and I want any 194 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.320 of you to tell me if you think you can 195 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.919 see that detail of people in a window. You know 196 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.679 this is I'm not gonna tell you, pro Rakhan, but 197 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.000 let's test this stuff out. So there's a there's a 198 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.480 big argment for testing things out in Dealey Plaza. 199 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.360 Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, and you could do all that, 200 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:25.759 plus you could go stand on the same pedestal or 201 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.759 you know what do they call that? I guess it's 202 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.360 a pedestal. Right, where's the cruiter stood? Oh yeah, right, 203 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.879 And and take a look at him trying to film 204 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.720 it and take you know, pull out your phone if 205 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.320 you want. I mean, it's not it's not nearly as 206 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.440 bulky as the Bell andhal camera, but just take out 207 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:44.879 your phone and sort of film the cars going by, 208 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.559 because you know, it's still a working street. Uh, And 209 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.240 and try and imagine that for a moment. It just 210 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.080 puts you in a whole different place. And the conferences 211 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.799 in and of themselves, regardless of the fact that you 212 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:01.919 have access to uh, this is workley relevant area. Which, 213 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:04.240 by the way, I'm definitely going to take some listeners 214 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:06.840 over there. We're going to take a small group over 215 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.120 and you know, hopefully we'll do that early on Friday. Okay, 216 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.240 Now there's no particular organization for this, but I plan 217 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.480 to be up early on Friday, go to the plaza 218 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.720 and be there for a little bit before the conference 219 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.759 actually kicks off on Friday, which it'll start with Mike Swanson, 220 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.039 by the way, which I think, based on his choice 221 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.519 of topic, is going to be very appropriate. But either way, 222 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.799 this is going to be interesting. Let's talk about some 223 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:39.320 of the conferences though, and some interesting things that have occurred. Now, 224 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.919 not everybody who's been at every conference has always been 225 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.120 my favorite person. I'll be honest with you there and 226 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.519 tell you that some people have changed over the years too, 227 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:53.440 but so have many things changed over the years. Let's 228 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.919 talk about a couple of the odd occurrences that I 229 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.960 kind of think. Look, I think it would be great 230 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.000 if these things were absolutely captured on film. And of 231 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:07.720 course you could record certain things going on yourself. Nowadays 232 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.080 everybody's got a damn camera in their pocket, so you 233 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.639 never know what you might capture in the hallways at 234 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:17.639 the bookstore, et cetera, because there are interactions going on 235 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:22.600 everywhere between all kinds of interesting people. And let's talk 236 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.600 about some of the people that maybe are no longer 237 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.799 with us. For starters, David Lifton was an interesting guy, 238 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.320 and I would say that many many people in the 239 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.320 age group which is slightly older than mine, always point 240 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.159 to Best Evidence as one of the great starting points 241 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.120 for their interest in the case. Now, regardless of what 242 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.399 you think about, you know, the hoaxing of the body 243 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:53.879 alteration afterwards, what happened with the caskets, et cetera, etc. 244 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.200 Regardless of what you think about all of that, it 245 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:00.440 did indeed spark a great deal of interest and got 246 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:06.600 that fascinating program from Nova on PBS. Regarding the JFK assassination, 247 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.600 it was really big around the twentieth anniversary in nineteen 248 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.200 eighty three. It was big. It was released before that, 249 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:16.559 but it was big around then. It was big still 250 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.200 around the twenty fifth anniversary, which is when I came 251 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:23.919 into the case. Best Evidence and David Lifton, but he 252 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.679 was at some of these Lancer conferences and had some 253 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.200 interesting interactions, didn't he Learry. 254 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.399 Yeah, David kind of sht His interest shifted a little 255 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.320 bit over the years. Of course, he started out it 256 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.879 was all very physical, autopsy oriented Best Evidence, but he 257 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:45.840 became very interested in Oswald and Oswald's osl's background. Oswald 258 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.919 in New Orleans and at one conference he actually, as 259 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.080 I recall, brought along a friend who had been a 260 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.720 friend of Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in high school, 261 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.759 and you know, brought him in and they were they 262 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.279 were going over some you know, what do you remember 263 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.360 about them? When? What year? Kind of backframe and and 264 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.000 and uh, someone whose name I won't mention but is 265 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.720 very well known to the assassination community stood up and said, 266 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.080 that's all a lie. And you know that that's a 267 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.519 point in time where you don't want to be the moderator. 268 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:21.840 Chuck. 269 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.200 I mean, that's that's you know, Uh, this is this 270 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.679 is called host satisfy, you know. And this individual and 271 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:35.639 lifting confrontational would be an understatement. We're talking about physical 272 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.240 It's sort of like, okay, you need to throw your 273 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.559 body in between these two because somebody is going to 274 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:47.000 get ejected. So if I will say, if anyone has 275 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.519 the uh, the impression that these conferences are kind of 276 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:56.919 all studious and academic and there's no emotional content, you're wrong. 277 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.759 There's a lot to be learned from the interactions. The individual, 278 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.519 the individual that interrupted lifting and confronted him, and who 279 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:12.480 I won't name, at another another years later conference, did 280 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:17.120 something that's that's totally unacceptable. He was he was listed 281 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:21.159 to speak, okay, so he got up and introduced himself. 282 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.879 Now by that time, I was doing the moderation and 283 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.159 got up and introduced himself and said, well, yes, I 284 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.240 know I'm about to speak about this, but I have 285 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.360 this young man who is a security expert and he 286 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.240 needs to tell you all his analysis of the shooting. 287 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.799 And the fellow got up and started off, and immediately 288 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.480 the fact that he was taking was that Jackie Kennedy 289 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.720 was involved in the shooting. 290 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.840 Oh boy was he. 291 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:52.600 Was like, she was involved in the conspiracy. And at 292 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.360 that point in time, I regret doing this. But I 293 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:57.840 was at the back of the room. I could not 294 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.399 I could not believe what I was here. And it's like, okay, 295 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.400 the crowd is beginning to, you know, getting ready to 296 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.240 surge to the stage, and I'm going I Am not 297 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.559 going to throw myself up in front of me. I'm 298 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:13.400 not gonna He's gonna get whatever he gets. And I 299 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:15.039 just eased out the back door. 300 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.039 No, okay, you slinked out the back. Now is this 301 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.359 one of these guys who does the whole Jackie had 302 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.680 a little pistol with her and shot him in the head. 303 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.440 Thing is oh no, no, this. 304 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.599 Is she was part of the conspiracy. She actually held 305 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:29.599 him up to be shot. 306 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:31.880 Oh, she held him up to be shot, because you 307 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.640 have heard the guys who have said that she had 308 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.160 a little pistol in her hand, right, you know, like 309 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.559 the little movie you see on the Zuppruter film. Of course, 310 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.240 then they get into this is one of the reasons 311 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.599 why they had to edit the Subruter film is they 312 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:45.960 had to remove her with a pistol. I'm not kidding. 313 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.480 By the way, there are people at a straight face 314 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.079 who say this, but good so that that's. 315 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.960 Kind of the worst case when you have to ask 316 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.359 yourself for am I really going to throw myself between 317 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.319 the speakers on a you know, or am I going 318 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.680 to throw myself you know, in front of the speaker 319 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:06.039 in the crowd? And the fellow went on, and actually 320 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.920 the audience was just they moaned, they've grown, They booed 321 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:12.839 a little bit and just let him continue, and most 322 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.519 of them walked out of the room. But that would 323 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.720 be one example. The other example of the surprise, and 324 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:20.880 this is again as the host. What you always hate 325 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:25.440 is Jack White, who we all dearly loved, lovely man 326 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.960 not necessarily accepting everything he had to say, but very 327 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.279 sincere got up to speak about the Supruter film, and 328 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.559 he had talked about the Supruder film before and how 329 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.079 it had been falsified. So okay, we want to want 330 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.640 to give everybody their voice. And so he comes up 331 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.079 and he said, well, I'm going to seede my time 332 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.759 to this young man who's going to talk about another 333 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.400 copy of this film that he's seen that presents something 334 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.759 totally different. And he's from France and Chuck, you're probably 335 00:18:57.799 --> 00:18:59.960 gonna that's probably going to ring a bell with you. 336 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.680 So the guy talks, gets up and spend Jack's time 337 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.880 talking about this other version that's held within French intelligence. 338 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.920 He's been allowed to view it. Here's what it shows. 339 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.240 You know, there is no prominence for any of this, 340 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.799 there's no backstory to any of it. And as soon 341 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.200 as he starts talking, stops talking, he leaves, and it's 342 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.720 like everybody is like, okay, what do we do now? 343 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:29.119 Does he This became a story for several years as 344 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.000 to a real another copy of the Bruer film, and 345 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.640 it was totally out of the blue. Normally, the vetting 346 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:41.319 of the speakers does require that they have some evidentiary 347 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.839 back you know, backstoried of what they're presenting. This was 348 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.000 just totally out of the blue. Again, these are the 349 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.960 sources of things that raise a great hue and cry. 350 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.359 That's hard to judge from a distance. If you had 351 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.920 been here there seeing how that happened, and had tried 352 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.079 to interact with the individual and really get some information 353 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:06.839 from him and learned how little there was which I did, 354 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.839 you might have a totally different view than if you 355 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:15.920 had just seen the presentation. But that personal interaction is 356 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.319 hard to get a getaway. And another version of that 357 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.559 check that I have to relate is early on, I 358 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.640 was not the host. I was not a man. In 359 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.559 the early years that I was attending, I was so 360 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.720 eager that I would go set on the floor in 361 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.440 the front row, so I was closer to the speaker, okay, 362 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.160 because I do not want to miss anything, right, all right. 363 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.079 So it's lunchtime, okay, And it's lunchtime when we're all 364 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.880 getting ready to go out and go eat. And I 365 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.319 don't know if it was Deborah herself or someone else, 366 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.960 came up and said, well, this gentleman has asked. He's 367 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.000 got something really important, you know, to present. He's not 368 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.880 on the schedule. We don't want you to miss this. 369 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.160 If you want to hear it, go have one at 370 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.319 your stay. And he gets up and presents for a 371 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.559 full hour, and of course I'm going to stay for 372 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.359 this because I'm at that level of eager. You know, 373 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.519 I'm not leaving the room for anything at this point 374 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.400 in time. And for those that viewer familiar with it, 375 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.920 he presents the story that later appeared in the book 376 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:26.240 called Flight Out of Dallas, about an airman who supposedly 377 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.799 was on an aircraft that flew into Dallas, picked up 378 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.720 a couple of guys in street cleaners uniforms, landed on 379 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.400 the bank of the river right there, right there downtown 380 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.240 multi engineercraft, and picked up Lee Harvey Oswell look alike, 381 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.880 and flew away. And you know, this is a fascinating 382 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.279 story because he's given all this detail and I'm taking 383 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.559 like twenty pages of notes, and I look up from 384 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.559 my notes and he's gone. It's like, you know, this 385 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.400 is a guy you want to talk to. And I 386 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.720 look around, turned my head and he's running, literally running 387 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.200 out the back door of the room, and so I 388 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:11.480 ran after him and he's literally sprinted down the escalator 389 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.720 out of the hotel. It's like wow, and you know, 390 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.920 this is a fascinating personal experience. Well, I managed to 391 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.079 establish contact with him. I talked to him many many 392 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.920 times over several years. I was trying to get through 393 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.640 to this guy who he was representing with this story. 394 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.799 He would never let me talk to him. Long story there. 395 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.359 I won't go into the book or the issues with 396 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.119 the book, but this is just an example of an 397 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:46.880 experience that you might you know, it's like wow. But 398 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.359 if I had not seen how he behaved, I probably 399 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.759 would not have been nearly as skeptical as I was, 400 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.960 because he gave all this information, if like, loads of facts, 401 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:00.559