Speaker 1: Get ready for.
Speaker 2: November twelve, twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing
Speaker 2: we call a calendar, This the O'Kelly effect. You hearing
Speaker 2: it live. If you're hearing me, oh, about ten minutes
Speaker 2: after seven pm Eastern on a Tuesday tearesday, believe it
Speaker 2: or not. Now, this is an odd time for me
Speaker 2: to start, but I wanted to start early and talk
Speaker 2: to Larry Hancock this week. Why we're ten days away
Speaker 2: from JFK Lancer twenty twenty four, which will be held
Speaker 2: on November twenty second through the twenty fourth of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, and I'm slated to be the live MC there.
Speaker 2: So there you go. I should be on my way
Speaker 2: to Dallas in well less than ten days from now,
Speaker 2: because if I'm not on my way from Georgia to
Speaker 2: Texas in ten days, if I'm not on my way
Speaker 2: before the twenty second, we got problems because I can't
Speaker 2: get there by bullet train, okay, and I'm not going
Speaker 2: by airplane anyway. But that Friday we'll kick off the conference.
Speaker 2: Virtual tickets available as well as in person go to
Speaker 2: Assassinationconference dot com. That is where you can go and
Speaker 2: use the code ocelly ten. By the way, to get
Speaker 2: ten percent off student tickets available, Like I said, virtual
Speaker 2: in person, whatever it is you want to do, get
Speaker 2: that ten percent off with the code o'celly ten. Anyways,
Speaker 2: Larry Hancock is with me. I always say it, but
Speaker 2: he takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf,
Speaker 2: and not just taking up space giving me a lot
Speaker 2: of information on not just the assassination itself, but today
Speaker 2: that's what we're going to talk about, and a couple
Speaker 2: of things that may or may not have happened depending
Speaker 2: on what conference, and a couple of the legendary incidents.
Speaker 2: Because you know, when you get a bunch of people
Speaker 2: together to do this, there's always some sort of information
Speaker 2: that is shared that is interesting, amazing. There's always people
Speaker 2: going over maybe some old material that they might have
Speaker 2: gotten a new look at. There is always new information
Speaker 2: coming out because things do get wrenched free from the government,
Speaker 2: new information, new witnesses come forward, new people start to
Speaker 2: make statements or published books, et cetera, et cetera, and man,
Speaker 2: it's always a big, huge learning experience and there are
Speaker 2: unique occurrences that occur at the conferences, and I think
Speaker 2: that's part of what we're going to talk about tonight.
Speaker 2: But before we get there, Larry Hancock, how are you
Speaker 2: doing tonight, sir?
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm doing fine, Chuck. And I certainly wish I was.
Speaker 3: I was going to the conference this year. Age and
Speaker 3: health permit that. But I did attend the conference in
Speaker 3: person for over twenty years and was a host and
Speaker 3: moderator for at least a full decade, so a lot
Speaker 3: of personal experience, and I can absolutely confirm what you said.
Speaker 3: There are personal experiences that you would get there that
Speaker 3: you could never replicate any other way, whether it's in
Speaker 3: the conference room, the hallway, the bar out on the street,
Speaker 3: and the plaza you know, at a certain Italian restaurant
Speaker 3: that Jack Ruby used to frequent, you know, just to
Speaker 3: get the sense of the place at the conference, and
Speaker 3: also in the plaza. I will say, if you haven't
Speaker 3: been in the plaza, you really aren't prepared to talk
Speaker 3: about the shooting in Dallas. It just you you don't
Speaker 3: have a contextual feeling for the space in any event.
Speaker 3: So part of it is the conference. Part of it's
Speaker 3: just being physical in Dallas, and I miss that. But
Speaker 3: you know, twenty two, twenty three years was a pretty
Speaker 3: good run look.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, but and you do not get a sense
Speaker 2: of things. I mean how close to get other stuff
Speaker 2: is like the building that Oswald was killed in essentially,
Speaker 2: you know, like it is right there, only a half
Speaker 2: a block away from where Kennedy was killed. Regardless of
Speaker 2: who you talk to. You know, the curious tight space there,
Speaker 2: the ramp that nobody can recall seeing Jack Ruby go down.
Speaker 2: Sure you can see all that stuff in the plaza,
Speaker 2: a very small area. I mean, I remarked, even from
Speaker 2: the railroad bridge. You know, that's another thing. You go
Speaker 2: up on the bridge, you got a bird's eye view
Speaker 2: of the entire area. That's always curious to take that
Speaker 2: in for yourself, and especially if you've been watching these
Speaker 2: things like on TV and on documentaries for years and years,
Speaker 2: you don't really even have a sense of things, no
Speaker 2: matter how many different ways the camera's gone after it,
Speaker 2: no matter how the camera's gone into the school book
Speaker 2: depository and shown you pictures through the windows, whether it
Speaker 2: was in the sixties or later on in the eighties
Speaker 2: before they put in the six to four museum, which
Speaker 2: that thing is there now, you know a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff has gone on in the plaza and the entire
Speaker 2: history of this, you know, it stems from there. And
Speaker 2: you're not far from the hospital. You're not far from
Speaker 2: where we saw the you know, the press conferences with
Speaker 2: Jesse Curry and everything else occurring. Jack Ruby lurking through
Speaker 2: the hallways of the what do they call that the
Speaker 2: Public Safety building, right, which is where the police all
Speaker 2: are and where they dragged Lee Harvey Oswald through when
Speaker 2: he's saying, Hey, I'm just a patsy and all that
Speaker 2: kind of all of this stuff in a very small space, right.
Speaker 3: Part of it is, part of it is physical. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's no way that you could appreciate the angle of
Speaker 3: descent going down Elm Street without seeing it live and
Speaker 3: in person. And if you're a shooter, I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear anybody talking about how easy or easy it was.
Speaker 3: Not a shot until you fully appreciate that angle of
Speaker 3: dissent and what it takes to hold your target, not
Speaker 3: on a level target, but on something that's changing angles
Speaker 3: quickly over a period of time. You just if you
Speaker 3: haven't seen that, you're not ready to talk. If you
Speaker 3: haven't stood in the positions of the various witnesses whose
Speaker 3: stories you read about and look around and go, oh,
Speaker 3: they said they heard the shot from Oh behind them,
Speaker 3: behind them is not towards the school book depository. The
Speaker 3: newman said, Oh, it came over my shoulder. No, that's
Speaker 3: not the school book depository. You know. One of the
Speaker 3: things is if you go there, you need to take
Speaker 3: your list of witnesses that you've read their testimony and
Speaker 3: you think a certain way about stand there, see see
Speaker 3: if you read their descriptions to yourself, and see if
Speaker 3: it makes any sense with the official story. You know,
Speaker 3: go stand where Brennan was standing, and you know, look,
Speaker 3: you know what do I see when I really look
Speaker 3: up at those zepper floors? And you know, that's a
Speaker 3: very important part of the experience. But the other party
Speaker 3: experience is emotional as well. When you when you go
Speaker 3: there and you think, well, you know, Jack Ruby was
Speaker 3: kept in a cell overlooking that plaza for months. What
Speaker 3: was going on in his mind? You know what? What?
Speaker 3: What's the emotional context you go over? You know, so
Speaker 3: part of it's seeing what you can see personally. You
Speaker 3: go over by the tower, the railroad tower, see what
Speaker 3: you can see from there. You go look down the
Speaker 3: fence line and see what Ed Hoffman could or cannot see.
Speaker 3: Don't don't take what anybody wrote about any of that.
Speaker 3: Go see for yourself. But so there's an emotional element
Speaker 3: and there's a very you know, reality check on what
Speaker 3: you've been reading that you really can only get if
Speaker 3: you go there in person.
Speaker 2: Well, right, even taking a look at cars going down
Speaker 2: the road and standing where Mary Mormon was with her
Speaker 2: you know, one shot instant camera, Okay, it is pretty
Speaker 2: interesting how she even captured that. That photo is pretty
Speaker 2: amazing because the timing is so interesting. And if you
Speaker 2: take a look at the way the traffic comes by,
Speaker 2: now granted it is a motorcade. I mean, all these
Speaker 2: positions are of interest. Whether you go to where sm.
Speaker 2: Hollyd was, you know, where his perch was, and like
Speaker 2: I said, I appreciate that. And then when you take
Speaker 2: in some of the accounts combined with what could you
Speaker 2: see from the particular position that they claim to be in,
Speaker 2: where were they photographed? By the way, because we do
Speaker 2: have a lot of photographic evidence now regarding where people
Speaker 2: were at exactly what point they were at, where the
Speaker 2: police ended up really quickly. I mean, all of that
Speaker 2: stuff comes.
Speaker 3: Together, Like Brendon was not looking at but the sixth
Speaker 3: floor window. Now we have photographs that show what he
Speaker 3: was doing. Now, wasn't even face in the right direction. Well,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's why I refer to this as
Speaker 3: a sanity test.
Speaker 2: Well, plus I love how he can look up six
Speaker 2: floors now, just this is always my favorite point. And
Speaker 2: again I'm not a guy who maybe some people go, well,
Speaker 2: how would you know, Chuck, your your vision's bad. Well,
Speaker 2: here's the thing. When you're working with very little vision,
Speaker 2: you pay a lot of attention to certain things, and
Speaker 2: you try to make notes of details because you've got
Speaker 2: less information to work with. Well, here's my question, how
Speaker 2: is it you're going to tell somebody's height from that?
Speaker 2: That's the weirdest thing is he gives a height for
Speaker 2: Oswald supposedly right when he's looking up six floors at
Speaker 2: least right six floors depending on elevation, though it might
Speaker 2: be more like seven floors. Okay, But either way, you're
Speaker 2: looking up at that through a window which was probably
Speaker 2: not perfectly clean. But even if it was perfectly clean,
Speaker 2: you're looking up through a window, you know, go ahead,
Speaker 2: and a.
Speaker 3: Window which is two feet lower than most windows are
Speaker 3: the windows on that floor are much lower at the
Speaker 3: bottom than a normal window. Yeah, not like I said,
Speaker 3: you just estimated it. Well, okay, let me the windows
Speaker 3: normally the X feed up from the floor. That's not
Speaker 3: the way it is in the school book depository.
Speaker 2: Right, So you know a window that's lower, okay, with
Speaker 2: a lot of boxes which should have been able to
Speaker 2: be visually seen through the window, regardless of how they
Speaker 2: were arranged. That's another issue. But you know, and you
Speaker 2: could pick out really quickly how tall somebody was, the
Speaker 2: tone of their skin, the color of their hair. I
Speaker 2: got to call a little bs on that. But anyway, I.
Speaker 3: Led walking tours there for years and years and years,
Speaker 3: and we'd spend probably an hour and a half walking
Speaker 3: the plaza, going to different locations, and we are ending
Speaker 3: usually was okay. Now there's a fellow that's claimed that
Speaker 3: he was three blocks away and he saw a person
Speaker 3: in the window and the detail here's the detail he gave.
Speaker 3: Now we're gonna walk down there, and I want any
Speaker 3: of you to tell me if you think you can
Speaker 3: see that detail of people in a window. You know
Speaker 3: this is I'm not gonna tell you, pro Rakhan, but
Speaker 3: let's test this stuff out. So there's a there's a
Speaker 3: big argment for testing things out in Dealey Plaza.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, and you could do all that,
Speaker 2: plus you could go stand on the same pedestal or
Speaker 2: you know what do they call that? I guess it's
Speaker 2: a pedestal. Right, where's the cruiter stood? Oh yeah, right,
Speaker 2: And and take a look at him trying to film
Speaker 2: it and take you know, pull out your phone if
Speaker 2: you want. I mean, it's not it's not nearly as
Speaker 2: bulky as the Bell andhal camera, but just take out
Speaker 2: your phone and sort of film the cars going by,
Speaker 2: because you know, it's still a working street. Uh, And
Speaker 2: and try and imagine that for a moment. It just
Speaker 2: puts you in a whole different place. And the conferences
Speaker 2: in and of themselves, regardless of the fact that you
Speaker 2: have access to uh, this is workley relevant area. Which,
Speaker 2: by the way, I'm definitely going to take some listeners
Speaker 2: over there. We're going to take a small group over
Speaker 2: and you know, hopefully we'll do that early on Friday. Okay,
Speaker 2: Now there's no particular organization for this, but I plan
Speaker 2: to be up early on Friday, go to the plaza
Speaker 2: and be there for a little bit before the conference
Speaker 2: actually kicks off on Friday, which it'll start with Mike Swanson,
Speaker 2: by the way, which I think, based on his choice
Speaker 2: of topic, is going to be very appropriate. But either way,
Speaker 2: this is going to be interesting. Let's talk about some
Speaker 2: of the conferences though, and some interesting things that have occurred. Now,
Speaker 2: not everybody who's been at every conference has always been
Speaker 2: my favorite person. I'll be honest with you there and
Speaker 2: tell you that some people have changed over the years too,
Speaker 2: but so have many things changed over the years. Let's
Speaker 2: talk about a couple of the odd occurrences that I
Speaker 2: kind of think. Look, I think it would be great
Speaker 2: if these things were absolutely captured on film. And of
Speaker 2: course you could record certain things going on yourself. Nowadays
Speaker 2: everybody's got a damn camera in their pocket, so you
Speaker 2: never know what you might capture in the hallways at
Speaker 2: the bookstore, et cetera, because there are interactions going on
Speaker 2: everywhere between all kinds of interesting people. And let's talk
Speaker 2: about some of the people that maybe are no longer
Speaker 2: with us. For starters, David Lifton was an interesting guy,
Speaker 2: and I would say that many many people in the
Speaker 2: age group which is slightly older than mine, always point
Speaker 2: to Best Evidence as one of the great starting points
Speaker 2: for their interest in the case. Now, regardless of what
Speaker 2: you think about, you know, the hoaxing of the body
Speaker 2: alteration afterwards, what happened with the caskets, et cetera, etc.
Speaker 2: Regardless of what you think about all of that, it
Speaker 2: did indeed spark a great deal of interest and got
Speaker 2: that fascinating program from Nova on PBS. Regarding the JFK assassination,
Speaker 2: it was really big around the twentieth anniversary in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty three. It was big. It was released before that,
Speaker 2: but it was big around then. It was big still
Speaker 2: around the twenty fifth anniversary, which is when I came
Speaker 2: into the case. Best Evidence and David Lifton, but he
Speaker 2: was at some of these Lancer conferences and had some
Speaker 2: interesting interactions, didn't he Learry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, David kind of sht His interest shifted a little
Speaker 3: bit over the years. Of course, he started out it
Speaker 3: was all very physical, autopsy oriented Best Evidence, but he
Speaker 3: became very interested in Oswald and Oswald's osl's background. Oswald
Speaker 3: in New Orleans and at one conference he actually, as
Speaker 3: I recall, brought along a friend who had been a
Speaker 3: friend of Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in high school,
Speaker 3: and you know, brought him in and they were they
Speaker 3: were going over some you know, what do you remember
Speaker 3: about them? When? What year? Kind of backframe and and
Speaker 3: and uh, someone whose name I won't mention but is
Speaker 3: very well known to the assassination community stood up and said,
Speaker 3: that's all a lie. And you know that that's a
Speaker 3: point in time where you don't want to be the moderator.
Speaker 2: Chuck.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's you know, Uh, this is this
Speaker 3: is called host satisfy, you know. And this individual and
Speaker 3: lifting confrontational would be an understatement. We're talking about physical
Speaker 3: It's sort of like, okay, you need to throw your
Speaker 3: body in between these two because somebody is going to
Speaker 3: get ejected. So if I will say, if anyone has
Speaker 3: the uh, the impression that these conferences are kind of
Speaker 3: all studious and academic and there's no emotional content, you're wrong.
Speaker 3: There's a lot to be learned from the interactions. The individual,
Speaker 3: the individual that interrupted lifting and confronted him, and who
Speaker 3: I won't name, at another another years later conference, did
Speaker 3: something that's that's totally unacceptable. He was he was listed
Speaker 3: to speak, okay, so he got up and introduced himself.
Speaker 3: Now by that time, I was doing the moderation and
Speaker 3: got up and introduced himself and said, well, yes, I
Speaker 3: know I'm about to speak about this, but I have
Speaker 3: this young man who is a security expert and he
Speaker 3: needs to tell you all his analysis of the shooting.
Speaker 3: And the fellow got up and started off, and immediately
Speaker 3: the fact that he was taking was that Jackie Kennedy
Speaker 3: was involved in the shooting.
Speaker 4: Oh boy was he.
Speaker 3: Was like, she was involved in the conspiracy. And at
Speaker 3: that point in time, I regret doing this. But I
Speaker 3: was at the back of the room. I could not
Speaker 3: I could not believe what I was here. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: the crowd is beginning to, you know, getting ready to
Speaker 3: surge to the stage, and I'm going I Am not
Speaker 3: going to throw myself up in front of me. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna He's gonna get whatever he gets. And I
Speaker 3: just eased out the back door.
Speaker 2: No, okay, you slinked out the back. Now is this
Speaker 2: one of these guys who does the whole Jackie had
Speaker 2: a little pistol with her and shot him in the head.
Speaker 2: Thing is oh no, no, this.
Speaker 3: Is she was part of the conspiracy. She actually held
Speaker 3: him up to be shot.
Speaker 2: Oh, she held him up to be shot, because you
Speaker 2: have heard the guys who have said that she had
Speaker 2: a little pistol in her hand, right, you know, like
Speaker 2: the little movie you see on the Zuppruter film. Of course,
Speaker 2: then they get into this is one of the reasons
Speaker 2: why they had to edit the Subruter film is they
Speaker 2: had to remove her with a pistol. I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2: By the way, there are people at a straight face
Speaker 2: who say this, but good so that that's.
Speaker 3: Kind of the worst case when you have to ask
Speaker 3: yourself for am I really going to throw myself between
Speaker 3: the speakers on a you know, or am I going
Speaker 3: to throw myself you know, in front of the speaker
Speaker 3: in the crowd? And the fellow went on, and actually
Speaker 3: the audience was just they moaned, they've grown, They booed
Speaker 3: a little bit and just let him continue, and most
Speaker 3: of them walked out of the room. But that would
Speaker 3: be one example. The other example of the surprise, and
Speaker 3: this is again as the host. What you always hate
Speaker 3: is Jack White, who we all dearly loved, lovely man
Speaker 3: not necessarily accepting everything he had to say, but very
Speaker 3: sincere got up to speak about the Supruter film, and
Speaker 3: he had talked about the Supruder film before and how
Speaker 3: it had been falsified. So okay, we want to want
Speaker 3: to give everybody their voice. And so he comes up
Speaker 3: and he said, well, I'm going to seede my time
Speaker 3: to this young man who's going to talk about another
Speaker 3: copy of this film that he's seen that presents something
Speaker 3: totally different. And he's from France and Chuck, you're probably
Speaker 3: gonna that's probably going to ring a bell with you.
Speaker 3: So the guy talks, gets up and spend Jack's time
Speaker 3: talking about this other version that's held within French intelligence.
Speaker 3: He's been allowed to view it. Here's what it shows.
Speaker 3: You know, there is no prominence for any of this,
Speaker 3: there's no backstory to any of it. And as soon
Speaker 3: as he starts talking, stops talking, he leaves, and it's
Speaker 3: like everybody is like, okay, what do we do now?
Speaker 3: Does he This became a story for several years as
Speaker 3: to a real another copy of the Bruer film, and
Speaker 3: it was totally out of the blue. Normally, the vetting
Speaker 3: of the speakers does require that they have some evidentiary
Speaker 3: back you know, backstoried of what they're presenting. This was
Speaker 3: just totally out of the blue. Again, these are the
Speaker 3: sources of things that raise a great hue and cry.
Speaker 3: That's hard to judge from a distance. If you had
Speaker 3: been here there seeing how that happened, and had tried
Speaker 3: to interact with the individual and really get some information
Speaker 3: from him and learned how little there was which I did,
Speaker 3: you might have a totally different view than if you
Speaker 3: had just seen the presentation. But that personal interaction is
Speaker 3: hard to get a getaway. And another version of that
Speaker 3: check that I have to relate is early on, I
Speaker 3: was not the host. I was not a man. In
Speaker 3: the early years that I was attending, I was so
Speaker 3: eager that I would go set on the floor in
Speaker 3: the front row, so I was closer to the speaker, okay,
Speaker 3: because I do not want to miss anything, right, all right.
Speaker 3: So it's lunchtime, okay, And it's lunchtime when we're all
Speaker 3: getting ready to go out and go eat. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if it was Deborah herself or someone else,
Speaker 3: came up and said, well, this gentleman has asked. He's
Speaker 3: got something really important, you know, to present. He's not
Speaker 3: on the schedule. We don't want you to miss this.
Speaker 3: If you want to hear it, go have one at
Speaker 3: your stay. And he gets up and presents for a
Speaker 3: full hour, and of course I'm going to stay for
Speaker 3: this because I'm at that level of eager. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm not leaving the room for anything at this point
Speaker 3: in time. And for those that viewer familiar with it,
Speaker 3: he presents the story that later appeared in the book
Speaker 3: called Flight Out of Dallas, about an airman who supposedly
Speaker 3: was on an aircraft that flew into Dallas, picked up
Speaker 3: a couple of guys in street cleaners uniforms, landed on
Speaker 3: the bank of the river right there, right there downtown
Speaker 3: multi engineercraft, and picked up Lee Harvey Oswell look alike,
Speaker 3: and flew away. And you know, this is a fascinating
Speaker 3: story because he's given all this detail and I'm taking
Speaker 3: like twenty pages of notes, and I look up from
Speaker 3: my notes and he's gone. It's like, you know, this
Speaker 3: is a guy you want to talk to. And I
Speaker 3: look around, turned my head and he's running, literally running
Speaker 3: out the back door of the room, and so I
Speaker 3: ran after him and he's literally sprinted down the escalator
Speaker 3: out of the hotel. It's like wow, and you know,
Speaker 3: this is a fascinating personal experience. Well, I managed to
Speaker 3: establish contact with him. I talked to him many many
Speaker 3: times over several years. I was trying to get through
Speaker 3: to this guy who he was representing with this story.
Speaker 3: He would never let me talk to him. Long story there.
Speaker 3: I won't go into the book or the issues with
Speaker 3: the book, but this is just an example of an
Speaker 3: experience that you might you know, it's like wow. But
Speaker 3: if I had not seen how he behaved, I probably
Speaker 3: would not have been nearly as skeptical as I was,
Speaker 3: because he gave all this information, if like, loads of facts,
Speaker 3: and then ran out of the room.
Speaker 2: Well, and that was a strange story anyway, because I
Speaker 2: remember it got popular for a minute, that story, and
Speaker 2: there was always this this buffer between the person who
Speaker 2: actually experienced it and the and the story right where,
Speaker 2: you know. I think they even presented this on Coast
Speaker 2: to coast AM at one point the flight out of Dallas, right,
Speaker 2: and it was interesting to a degree, but the story
Speaker 2: never quite went anywhere. And I'm pretty sure it was
Speaker 2: supposed to be a guy who was, you know, in
Speaker 2: the military, was catching a ride somewhere else, and they
Speaker 2: have these transports that go around to different bases and
Speaker 2: do this and that, and he just so happens to
Speaker 2: be on a flight that picks up the lee Harvey
Speaker 2: Oswald look like. And it's a wild story.
Speaker 3: But and he doesn't get killed, right, I mean, that's
Speaker 3: one of the immediate questions is we know these guys
Speaker 3: don't have any they're not hesitant to murder the president
Speaker 3: of the United States. So the primary witness that just
Speaker 3: saw its conspiracy is going to walk off the plane
Speaker 3: and just go get on a bus or something.
Speaker 2: And nobody cares a guy with no clear you know,
Speaker 2: the guy has no special clearance that we know the
Speaker 2: guy is not. You know what I'm saying is it's
Speaker 2: not like he's cleared to be around sensitive things. And
Speaker 2: you would think that if the military is involved with this,
Speaker 2: they might count it as a sensitive thing. Okay.
Speaker 3: The interesting thing is is it turned out one of
Speaker 3: the reasons after the fact, he got very paranoid about
Speaker 3: it all because he thought that he was being he
Speaker 3: was being investigated, that he was under surveillance, and he
Speaker 3: was actually taken to Washington, d C. And ask a
Speaker 3: series of questions. Now here's the interesting thing. The guy
Speaker 3: actually was being screened and reviewed for assignment as a
Speaker 3: logistics staff person for the SR seventy one project run
Speaker 3: by the CIA. So of course he was being vetted.
Speaker 3: This is like one of the ultra secret projects in
Speaker 3: the whole United States CIA military complex. Of course he
Speaker 3: was being screened, had nothing to do, and of course
Speaker 3: it's sort of like, well, this is the guy we
Speaker 3: would pick for a sensitive post at Area fifty one,
Speaker 3: which is where he got assigned, by the way, But
Speaker 3: he never could make the connection that the reason he
Speaker 3: was being you know, screened, was because of the program
Speaker 3: that he was being vetted for, rather than oh, they're
Speaker 3: watching me because I know what happened in.
Speaker 2: Dallas, and you and I have discussed this on the
Speaker 2: show before, where they go in depth and start to
Speaker 2: investigate people's lives in order to you know, give him
Speaker 2: a job or to or to you know, involve them
Speaker 2: in a program. I mean, I talked to you about
Speaker 2: applying for a job for the NSA and how they
Speaker 2: start checking into your background. They want to talk to
Speaker 2: anybody who's related to you, people who've known you, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera, and they will go around and interview and
Speaker 2: check your facts to make sure you know that you
Speaker 2: actually attended this cools you say you did, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. So I mean it is and whether or.
Speaker 3: Not you talk to people. Yeah, how much you tell
Speaker 3: you that he was going into a job that was
Speaker 3: not He just wasn't getting a security clearance. He was
Speaker 3: getting assigned to a compartmentalized project. And the biggest, the
Speaker 3: biggest classification for that SR seventy one project was you
Speaker 3: don't talk to anybody about anything. And of course they're
Speaker 3: going to monitor you to see if you talk to
Speaker 3: anybody about anything.
Speaker 2: Well there's the other thing. No matter how much people
Speaker 2: think they know you, right, uh, they're gonna check into
Speaker 2: your activities. What's the best way to do that surveillance,
Speaker 2: you know, just to see what you're currently doing. They're
Speaker 2: checking on your past with these other people, maybe you know,
Speaker 2: see what kind of person you were, and like I said,
Speaker 2: you know your your previous behaviors might indicate your future actions,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 3: So I mean, look, these are just things that happen
Speaker 3: at the conference. They come, they go, but it's again,
Speaker 3: it kind of explains why the conference in person, if
Speaker 3: you nobody would have seen that, if they had not
Speaker 3: been at the conference in person and kind of hanging
Speaker 3: around for a couple of minutes rather than heading right
Speaker 3: for the you know, lunch or whatever. It's just as
Speaker 3: spontaneous and spontaneous things do happen at the conference.
Speaker 2: See, And I now know why you were laughing in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen when, you know, because I was there and
Speaker 2: that was the first time I ever went to you know, Lancer,
Speaker 2: and I was there, and Carmine is given his presentation
Speaker 2: the way he does, and at the end, all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, somebody wanted to jump up and advocate for
Speaker 2: somebody who definitely would not have been invited to the
Speaker 2: Lancer conference, okay, and wanted to basically push back against
Speaker 2: a huge part of what Carmine just presented because a
Speaker 2: particular witness needs to be acknowledged. And it started to
Speaker 2: get nasty real quick, and it was I thought, I
Speaker 2: thought there was going to be a problem, to be
Speaker 2: honest with you, and other people got a bit ben
Speaker 2: out of shape about it, and it actually changed my
Speaker 2: presentation for the next day, even though previously I was
Speaker 2: slated to present right after Carmine. I was then changed
Speaker 2: to the next day, and I pulled out a piece
Speaker 2: of what it was I was going to present because
Speaker 2: people got all nervous about we might have a problem.
Speaker 2: And then I discovered and this is something again, I
Speaker 2: had no idea this kind of thing was going to happen.
Speaker 2: I discovered that, you know, from another conference, came other
Speaker 2: people who sort of snuck into the Lancer conference.
Speaker 3: Yep, yes, yes, indeed.
Speaker 2: And these kind of interactions. My understanding is, you know,
Speaker 2: I thought it was a rare thing that happened there.
Speaker 2: Apparently these sorts of things do happen on occasion where
Speaker 2: people intentionally come in to cause problems, disrupt things by
Speaker 2: on the Lancer conference.
Speaker 3: Even people in a yeah, I yes.
Speaker 2: I literally had one of them walk up to me
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, which was funny and shake my hand
Speaker 2: and say, oh, I'm a fan of yours. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: so I stopped. I talked to you know me, I'll
Speaker 2: talk to anybody, right, especially if they approach me friendly.
Speaker 2: I'm good like that. So she starts talking to me,
Speaker 2: and I looked down at her like name tag, you know,
Speaker 2: because we all got these like Lancer name tags. If
Speaker 2: you were a presenter, if you were part of the conference,
Speaker 2: and I think even the people that were attending were
Speaker 2: given these, you know, printed name tags.
Speaker 3: So I looked down for the reason you just discussed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the funny thing is I look down, I
Speaker 2: realized she has a name tag. Yes, indeed, but it's
Speaker 2: not a lancer name tag. And I'm like, you wore
Speaker 2: the tag from the other conference into here. Nobody stopped you,
Speaker 2: and you're what do you do? Well, I'm just I
Speaker 2: was a at the other conference. I wanted to come
Speaker 2: and check out what's going on here. I went, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to say. The next thing
Speaker 2: I knew is the little group of people she was
Speaker 2: with left and I'm like, okay, we got people popping
Speaker 2: in from the other conference to check on what it
Speaker 2: is we're doing. Very strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, see how fun this is? Again, you just don't
Speaker 3: get this experience. But of course there are there are
Speaker 3: kind of sensational experiences that are a little I won't
Speaker 3: call them lighthearted. I'm one of the most fun for
Speaker 3: me was one of the years in which I had
Speaker 3: first started doing some full scale presentations, you know, hour
Speaker 3: long presentations. Whatever. I was at the just beginning my presentation,
Speaker 3: I had issued the words said, I am going to
Speaker 3: talk about real names and real people, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to show you pictures. And at that point the fire
Speaker 3: alarm went off and we ended the whole building and
Speaker 3: somebody looked at me and said, maybe you shouldn't do that.
Speaker 3: I'm going not, well, no, I'm still going to do it.
Speaker 3: But and I think the year earlier, on her way
Speaker 3: down to open the conference, Deborah had been on an
Speaker 3: elevator that had dropped four floors, right, and it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, those are the things We're good now. You know,
Speaker 3: none of this this really means anything. It does and
Speaker 3: it's just part of the overall experience, but of course
Speaker 3: it doesn't. Just telling anecdotal stories that it's not nearly
Speaker 3: as bad as when we Debora and I showed up
Speaker 3: in Dallas at one of the other hotels, not the
Speaker 3: hotel were using this year, walked in and they said, well,
Speaker 3: the hotels changed hands and there's no more restaurant.
Speaker 2: No more restaurant.
Speaker 3: It's like, hmmm, okay, this is a problem.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: So there are those fun things behind the scenes that
Speaker 3: she got into it a arrange for anyway, but that
Speaker 3: the attendees never see, but the conference experience is unique,
Speaker 3: there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's not the only fire alarm incident
Speaker 2: that ever occurred. I remember, now, Look, I did a
Speaker 2: late night interview in uh, you know last year when
Speaker 2: when we were there, I did the Coast to Coast
Speaker 2: AM and it was funny because I called the I tested.
Speaker 2: They tested my phone line and everything beforehand, so I could,
Speaker 2: you know, okay, how's this going to sound? Is he
Speaker 2: going to be okay on air? Yes? Indeed, because you
Speaker 2: got to check with a cell phone especially, and I
Speaker 2: didn't have many choices, you know, because I'm in a hotel,
Speaker 2: I'm not at home. I can't plug into anything really
Speaker 2: all that sophisticated, so you know, I had to rely
Speaker 2: on a cell phone. Anyway, they're they're testing it and
Speaker 2: it's fine. They called me back to put me on air, like,
Speaker 2: you know, two minutes before I'm supposed to go on air,
Speaker 2: and now there's interference and we couldn't clear up this interference.
Speaker 2: I thought I was not going to be able to
Speaker 2: go live on the radio show. And you know what
Speaker 2: I thought of when this started happening, and I ended
Speaker 2: up having to move to a different part of the
Speaker 2: room and find a place where I could make it
Speaker 2: you know, nice and quiet and everything else. And we
Speaker 2: got through it, and I got through the interview. Now
Speaker 2: that was being done on a night after we had
Speaker 2: already held part of the conference, so you know, it
Speaker 2: wasn't really for promotion of come down and see the
Speaker 2: conference ahead of time, but it was this is happening now.
Speaker 2: Another time, when somebody was doing a similar thing on
Speaker 2: a nighttime radio show, the alarm went off during the
Speaker 2: fire alarm went off like instantaneously during their interview as well.
Speaker 2: Are you privy to that story, because that was weird.
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't sound out of character, but I don't
Speaker 3: recall that particular one.
Speaker 2: Well, people were pounding on doors telling him to get
Speaker 2: out of a particular section of the hotel, and it
Speaker 2: just so happens this is the section where the guy
Speaker 2: was staying and being interviewed. So he's being told to
Speaker 2: evacuate from the hotel room while he's on air live
Speaker 2: And I can't remember who did it was somebody who
Speaker 2: you know, it's not not one of the biggest names
Speaker 2: or anything. And he didn't really have anything you know,
Speaker 2: crazy uh uh, you know, deep covered or reveal. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like I'm going out here and I'm revealing some
Speaker 2: brand new document or something, you know, Like, it wasn't
Speaker 2: like that. It was just a general sort of Hey,
Speaker 2: we're holding the conference and this is a point of
Speaker 2: interest for your radio listeners. And yeah, and that guy
Speaker 2: was like being evacuated like during the commercial break on
Speaker 2: the radio show, which was like insanely funny to me.
Speaker 2: But but I've heard these weird stories about the hotels.
Speaker 2: I could tell a couple of weird stories too.
Speaker 3: But they're also positive stories, I will say, And they're
Speaker 3: positive surprises. I remember, And we've added to two or
Speaker 3: three occasions I did it that we really we changed
Speaker 3: speakers and people agreed to this, but people that were
Speaker 3: on the schedule and people someone shows up. An example
Speaker 3: of that would be one year when actually we cleared
Speaker 3: the speaker for a lot and this guy walks up
Speaker 3: to the podium and nobody recognizes him and nobody knows
Speaker 3: who he is, but he's in this black kind of
Speaker 3: ninja suit with a headband around a black headband try
Speaker 3: tied around his head, and you're going, oh, lord, what's
Speaker 3: going to happen now? And if you're in the audience.
Speaker 3: And he gets up and says, I'm a conspiracy researcher
Speaker 3: and I'm John Newman, okay, and everybody just kind of huh,
Speaker 3: what fell out of a chair? And John goes and
Speaker 3: I've just come back from resuming all the Mexico City
Speaker 3: documents and we have a totally new story that you've
Speaker 3: never heard, and I've got, you know, five hundred overhead
Speaker 3: transparencies to tell it to you. And he did, and
Speaker 3: it was It was revolutionary in terms of exposing it
Speaker 3: is first time we'd ever seen the documents from Mexico City,
Speaker 3: in terms of how how headquarters in Mexico City were
Speaker 3: lined to each other and changing their stories, and how
Speaker 3: how everybody in headquarters was just going ballistic. And he
Speaker 3: would show the actual teletype messages kind of at some
Speaker 3: one point, the teletype message says, you have to say
Speaker 3: things more clearly. We're worried, you know, get to the point,
Speaker 3: and you could tell how nervous they were at headquarters
Speaker 3: about what was going on, and it just overwhelmed the audience.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was an overwhelming presentation.
Speaker 2: John was explaining not only that, but how these communications
Speaker 2: took place like you literally could visualize, all right, you
Speaker 2: have this machine here, they have to communicate this way
Speaker 2: to this branch. This is where it goes to, this
Speaker 2: is where it ends up. And quite honest, that's during
Speaker 2: the time period when a lot of us, I believe,
Speaker 2: learned for the first time how a lot of those
Speaker 2: communications worked, because you know, this stuff ends up in files,
Speaker 2: and I think that people didn't understand that. You know, look, okay,
Speaker 2: it's a memo, So what does it mean when it's
Speaker 2: a memo? No clue about exactly how these documents worked.
Speaker 2: And he was showing us the communications and how they
Speaker 2: would have taken place like in the real world, you know.
Speaker 3: And the time sequence, which was very critical. But so
Speaker 3: I guess telling that story to so that there are surprises,
Speaker 3: but there are good surprises. I think another surprise was
Speaker 3: a year in which you know, there was a person's
Speaker 3: I talked about introducing people and like blowing away the moderator,
Speaker 3: and but a person whose name nobody really recognized Deborah
Speaker 3: and I knew him. He was a good friend of Deborah.
Speaker 3: Researcher from New Orleans is on the agenda and gives
Speaker 3: up and he does an introduction to a lady. And
Speaker 3: this was revolutionary because it had to do with Roe
Speaker 3: Share Me and the whole story about Roe share Me
Speaker 3: and what she said when and basically she had she had.
Speaker 3: Her story was that she had actually personally because the
Speaker 3: police officer. People that know this story know that Jeremy
Speaker 3: was transported by a police officer named Friget Okay and
Speaker 3: that's all that ever appears. You know he transported her, well,
Speaker 3: she said, you all don't understand. Even then, police officers
Speaker 3: were not allowed in Louisiana to transport a female prisoner unassisted.
Speaker 3: There had to be a chaperone. She was a secretary.
Speaker 3: She rode in the car with him. Her name shows, yes,
Speaker 3: she was, you know when you trace back her name, Yeah,
Speaker 3: she was the secretary. But nobody ever took testimony from her.
Speaker 3: Nobody ever interviewed her. And she went into a lengthy
Speaker 3: story about how she had worked with him, verified aspects
Speaker 3: of a story and verified Jeremy's remarks. Now here's an
Speaker 3: interesting thing. You would never have gotten that anywhere but
Speaker 3: at the conference. She never wrote a book, never been
Speaker 3: interviewed by anybody else. It's never really entered the data
Speaker 3: set about Roe. Jeremy. Other than at the conference. And
Speaker 3: that's true of a number of things that have been
Speaker 3: introduced as data. But the only place you would have
Speaker 3: gotten them was at the conference. And the either they're
Speaker 3: captured on the conference you know, CD or you know,
Speaker 3: but you know they that's you get. You get unique
Speaker 3: bits and pieces of information there, as we had when
Speaker 3: we had James Hosty testify and make remarks that he
Speaker 3: didn't put in his book and he didn't put anywhere else,
Speaker 3: and he was responding to questions and talking in person.
Speaker 3: You know, there's there's a level of interchange that goes
Speaker 3: on that that just is not necessarily reproduced anywhere else.
Speaker 2: Well, right, even the nature with which Bill Wesley Frasier,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's fairly consistent with that book now, okay,
Speaker 2: and and has been for the past several years. But
Speaker 2: even when he showed up at a later conference to
Speaker 2: just you know, explain his story, right, we'd all seen
Speaker 2: it for years, but it was told in a very
Speaker 2: different way, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Speaker 2: At the conference. Plus people get to ask questions. That
Speaker 2: changes the way things are. We've seen the children of
Speaker 2: witnesses come out, including Marita Lorenz's daughter, right, we've seen
Speaker 2: Roch Jeremy's son my right, Marcati's was also. I mean,
Speaker 2: there there's been generations now that.
Speaker 3: Have got at Jerry Patrick. Hemmy that that has to
Speaker 3: be one of the.
Speaker 2: Well I was going to go there next.
Speaker 3: If you've never met Jerry Patrick coming and you just
Speaker 3: see his remarks online and that sort of thing, it's
Speaker 3: hard to appreciate his presence. Jerry was an intimidating individual,
Speaker 3: but again this was a fascinating He agreed to come,
Speaker 3: and some of the researchers from Miami came who had
Speaker 3: knew him and talking with him, and in essence, Jerry's
Speaker 3: story was going to be about how his inter Pin
Speaker 3: group had been invited to provide security for JFK when
Speaker 3: he came to Miami in October of nineteen sixty three. Okay,
Speaker 3: so this is Jerry's story. And when Jerry tells the story, it's,
Speaker 3: you know, this is like the big guy in the
Speaker 3: bar telling the story, you know, like a Jim Crochy song.
Speaker 3: You don't you know, don't spit in this guy's whatever.
Speaker 3: And one of our older researchers from Miami who had
Speaker 3: brought Jerry got up and did a whole of visuals
Speaker 3: from the arrival of JFK at the airport, full panoramic views.
Speaker 3: You can see everybody is around, none of him means
Speaker 3: people are there, okay, and he turns and goes, so
Speaker 3: where were you, Jerry? Now, if you want a fascinating moment,
Speaker 3: that was a fascinating moment. Jerry just kind of stone wall.
Speaker 3: It's sort of like, well they did, we were covert,
Speaker 3: we were proud of security. Nobody saw us. Okay, got
Speaker 3: it right.
Speaker 2: Well, and here's the thing. Heming is a fascinating character.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you just go and do and I
Speaker 2: just decided to do this just for fun, just go
Speaker 2: do a quick internet search right to actually meet a
Speaker 2: guy who can be described in this way. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: the leader of a group of anti communist Soldiers of
Speaker 2: Fortune who trained anti Castro Cubans in the early nineteen sixties.
Speaker 2: There is that descriptor alone is enough, right, you know,
Speaker 2: the people that he ran across, depending on whether you
Speaker 2: believe every story or not, is remarkable. But also the
Speaker 2: idea that this guy started at church what was it
Speaker 2: called the Society of the Discordian.
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm sorry no, that was different. But actually he
Speaker 3: and Frank Sturgis together started well, they started a church
Speaker 3: and then they started a Benevolent Society to do collections
Speaker 3: to you know, support the community. And it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 3: not the two guys I've necessarily seen that. Could I
Speaker 3: see their paperwork?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: It's I will say, to just relate another anecdote from
Speaker 3: the conference. Sometimes things happened totally outside the room, Okay,
Speaker 3: And this is something you take advantage of. Jerry's brother
Speaker 3: came to one of the conferences. This is after Jerry
Speaker 3: had passed away. Actually, so okay, sometime.
Speaker 2: After two thousand and eight then, because I think he
Speaker 2: died in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now I was probably twelve or fourteen something like that,
Speaker 3: and he wasn't speaking. It was he just wanted to
Speaker 3: be there and he wanted to listen to people. And
Speaker 3: so I didn't know he was coming. I had not
Speaker 3: met him. I talked to Noel Twicement a lot because
Speaker 3: he had Jerry's brother, and Roy Hargroves had done extended
Speaker 3: interviews with Twyman. But so I approached him in the hall.
Speaker 3: I said, well, here's who I am, and here's how
Speaker 3: I know Jerry and I know you visited with Noel.
Speaker 3: And by the way, you do know that we put
Speaker 3: your interview transcript into my first book. And he said, yeah,
Speaker 3: I know. And I said, and you know that you
Speaker 3: threatened ol so much that Noel made me take it
Speaker 3: out of the second edition. And he said, well, we
Speaker 3: really didn't mean to do that. You know. It's like, okay,
Speaker 3: and this guy is about him he'd size so he's
Speaker 3: twice my size anyway, So okay, all right, so good.
Speaker 3: I don't need to be intimidated. But then what he
Speaker 3: went on to do was make a very kind of
Speaker 3: important comment that just helped me with my understanding. He said, Now,
Speaker 3: what I want to tell you is Jerry knew a
Speaker 3: lot of people who had done a lot of things,
Speaker 3: and Jerry determined early on that he had to mix
Speaker 3: his information because people might have thought that he was
Speaker 3: a threat to them. So Jerry intentionally said true things
Speaker 3: and untrue things, and he did it very consistently, so
Speaker 3: he would never be a credible source. I'm going Jerry,
Speaker 3: his brother is telling me he'd made himself not to
Speaker 3: be a credible source to not put himself at risk.
Speaker 3: Now that's really interesting. That's a Hallway conversation only.
Speaker 2: He intentionally discredited himself for his own protection. I mean,
Speaker 2: is that is that about what I meant to take
Speaker 2: from that?
Speaker 3: That's absolutely it, So that people think about it, think
Speaker 3: about the Roselle story. Roselli was safe up until the
Speaker 3: point that people began to suspect that he was actually
Speaker 3: revealing too much. I think Jimman was smart enough to go,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, he had told the old Twyman
Speaker 3: that he was aware of the conspiracy and that he
Speaker 3: chose not to quote unquote get on that train, which
Speaker 3: suggests that he had dangerous information. But how do you
Speaker 3: handle that people know you have that information. It's not
Speaker 3: like this flight out of Dallas guy who gets away.
Speaker 3: You know, if people like Roselli gets killed, that there
Speaker 3: are people that might be at risk. You know, David
Speaker 3: Morales dies mysteriously, so h I mean, just thought it
Speaker 3: was safer to not be someone that anyone wouldn't want
Speaker 3: to call to offer testimony.
Speaker 2: Look, I understand on the war on hand, but on
Speaker 2: the other hand, it's it's just a wild story too,
Speaker 2: it is, and who knows.
Speaker 3: But again, having having seen the fact that Jerry did
Speaker 3: offer different information to different people. If you were Joan Mellon,
Speaker 3: for example, you know, you would get to be very
Speaker 3: skeptical about you know, did did I get fat information?
Speaker 3: What's true and what's false? And I think that was
Speaker 3: the That's pretty much a Hemming m o. He was
Speaker 3: a combination of true and false, and he is from
Speaker 3: my personal encounters with him, he was an extremely bright individual.
Speaker 3: I determined early on that Hemming was a lot brighter
Speaker 3: and a lot quicker than I was. And the thought
Speaker 3: that I was ever going to get anything out of
Speaker 3: him directly that or take him anywhere I wanted to go,
Speaker 3: it was just out of my mind. He was a
Speaker 3: really bright guy.
Speaker 2: Well, you might disagree with me on this, Larry, but
Speaker 2: I would always suggest that people look at Adam go
Speaker 2: Rightley's work on him because it is taken with many
Speaker 2: grains of salt. Let's say, you know, and with a
Speaker 2: different attitude. Are you familiar with Adam.
Speaker 3: Go Rightly No, I can't say that I am, all right.
Speaker 2: I would suggest that you look that up and and
Speaker 2: take a look at his treatment of Heming, because although
Speaker 2: it does inform us about a great many things that
Speaker 2: Heming allegedly informed us about, it's an interesting treatment that
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people in the assassination community
Speaker 2: didn't take too seriously, but others did. And it's it's
Speaker 2: really fascinating because I think it actually sticks with the
Speaker 2: spirit of what heming was doing himself for the most part.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Adam go Rightley's a weird sort of writer
Speaker 2: by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will have to say it. I always
Speaker 3: took him in very seriously. It's just that I determined
Speaker 3: that I didn't think I could do anything with him.
Speaker 2: That's the trouble. And you know, and here we go again.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of information that gets shared. And I
Speaker 2: gotta say that sometimes, you know, during these conferences there's
Speaker 2: information there that you know, some some of those super
Speaker 2: anxious people in the front row get a little bit like, oh,
Speaker 2: come on, I already know this, you know, move on,
Speaker 2: give me something new, something new. And I've observed that,
Speaker 2: you know, every time that I've been at a conference
Speaker 2: where there's like, you know, come on, come on, news new,
Speaker 2: something new, you know, and uh, it's it's really interesting
Speaker 2: to observe the different levels and uh, and and some
Speaker 2: of those hallway conversations that take place or the or
Speaker 2: the conversations or meetings of interesting individuals that take place,
Speaker 2: say in the book room. You know, I ran into
Speaker 2: a guy in that book room who was the strangest
Speaker 2: individual of anybody I've run into in a conference. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to name them, but he's a name you'd know, Larry,
Speaker 2: and he uh, he was an awkward guy, just a
Speaker 2: very awkward sort of guy who has written on this topic,
Speaker 2: who has co authored things with other people. Now you
Speaker 2: might know who it is based on that, but I mean,
Speaker 2: but just a very strange in person meeting this guy was.
Speaker 2: And some people like John Newman, Okay, John Newman, you're
Speaker 2: talking about showing up almost stressed as a ninja the
Speaker 2: one time. But another time, even in twenty seventeen, he
Speaker 2: showed up with some Asian looking garbon. But people were
Speaker 2: used to John by then. You know, it was a
Speaker 2: little different by then, right because John had shown us
Speaker 2: many different things, and John always goes into some very
Speaker 2: very densely populated documentary information. Right, So you got all
Speaker 2: that stuff, and then you've got other people that lay
Speaker 2: out some of the very basic information and really give us,
Speaker 2: you know, a refresher course on stuff that we already
Speaker 2: studied and then try and take it into a new direction.
Speaker 2: And I say, there's a variety of this all the
Speaker 2: way across the board. And it's interesting because we got
Speaker 2: some of these younger people that are going to be
Speaker 2: talking about photographic evidence. Again, you mentioned Jack White, and
Speaker 2: Jack White, just to be fair, was one of these
Speaker 2: guys who you know, for years was one of the
Speaker 2: most prominent people talking about the backyard photographs, the Zapruder film.
Speaker 2: Of course he was talking about, you know, different things
Speaker 2: that were evident in the evidence. Let's say that the
Speaker 2: public could observe one way or another. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that I agreed with everything Jack White had to say,
Speaker 2: for sure. I don't know anybody who actually does agree
Speaker 2: with everything Jack White had to say, because Jack White
Speaker 2: was a unique individual. But I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 2: There was even the videotape for a little while that
Speaker 2: was almost like dressed up as a news video. Yes,
Speaker 2: that went around. You know, Lee Rby Oswald's backyard photos
Speaker 2: have been faked worldwide. He was exposed. It was kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, silly looking when you took take a look
Speaker 2: at it today. But I mean that went on and
Speaker 2: the collaborations that went on some people that you didn't
Speaker 2: name during this discussion, that that that caused other collaborations
Speaker 2: and interactions to occur. That's another thing that happens. People
Speaker 2: get together and decide they're going to work together or
Speaker 2: share information, or maybe assist somebody else with their work.
Speaker 2: You could be present for these things, or you might
Speaker 2: have a piece of information you personally listening, not not you, Larry,
Speaker 2: you know that you want to share or that you
Speaker 2: want to check up on. You know, like I said
Speaker 2: on the recent show with Robert Groden, it's interesting enough
Speaker 2: that you've got Robert Groden there. Because Bob was involved
Speaker 2: with the HSCA. Everybody who's ever delved into the case
Speaker 2: in the past half century knows about the man who
Speaker 2: killed Kennedy. He was a prominent figure in that documentary series.
Speaker 2: Regardless of what you think of the information in it,
Speaker 2: you know, Bob has been part of a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: He was part of that whole. Let's tell the story
Speaker 2: about what the Russians were doing right during that time,
Speaker 2: the Russian investigation. You remember there was a TV special
Speaker 2: on that Bob assisted with the JFK movie. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you just take a look at the different points
Speaker 2: at which Bob Goroden has been involved with the case,
Speaker 2: the media regarding the case. Everything from showing this zu
Speaker 2: Bruder film on her Roaldos TV show to literally getting
Speaker 2: a cameo in the movie JFK. Bob Goroden has been
Speaker 2: involved in these things. That guy's going to be there
Speaker 2: also having worked.
Speaker 3: As part of this some kind of spontaneous too. Last year,
Speaker 3: you remember, Chuck, we had basically we managed to during
Speaker 3: the presentation, the speaker said, look, this person is chosen
Speaker 3: to attend the conference. She's here now. We weren't sure
Speaker 3: if he was coming, and we got managed to get
Speaker 3: her on stage and addressing, and Gail nick Jackson just
Speaker 3: added a tremendous amount of detail the presentation. But that
Speaker 3: was not planned. She just decided to come to verily
Speaker 3: last minute. We managed to get her up on the
Speaker 3: stage and so and sometimes you don't know exactly what
Speaker 3: is going to happen at the conference until it happens.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well I'll tell people that story because I
Speaker 2: was involved in that. Gail showed up and showed up
Speaker 2: the first day just to kind of poke her head
Speaker 2: in and say hi, because she knew you know, a
Speaker 2: couple of us that had done podcasts with her and
Speaker 2: this and that about the Missing Nick's film, right, And
Speaker 2: she wound up talking to everybody and saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I've got this piece of information that you know some
Speaker 2: of us behind the scenes. And we said, well, you
Speaker 2: know what, we were going to do a panel about
Speaker 2: some of the things you're talking about, Gail, and we'd
Speaker 2: love to have you be part of it. And you know,
Speaker 2: you don't. We kind of pitched it to her as
Speaker 2: you know, don't have to do much, but if you
Speaker 2: want to bring up some of this, you know, stuff
Speaker 2: that you've been able to research that you haven't put
Speaker 2: in a book yet, if you want to offer your
Speaker 2: books here, I mean, come on and join us. Now.
Speaker 2: She was not scheduled, was not planned. I don't even
Speaker 2: think anybody was certain that she was going to poke
Speaker 2: her head in and say hi. That year. And the
Speaker 2: next thing you know is we're setting up a special panel,
Speaker 2: which you wound up participating in. We put Larry up there,
Speaker 2: we put Doug Campbell up there, and I was moved
Speaker 2: off of the panel. I personally volunteered to be moved
Speaker 2: off of the panel because we ran out of microphones.
Speaker 2: That's a true story. And we put Gail there and
Speaker 2: next thing I know is look, and I love you, Gail,
Speaker 2: you know that. But the thing is you dominated the panel.
Speaker 2: And she presented for about an hour information that nobody
Speaker 2: else has actually researched, nobody else has dug into as
Speaker 2: deeply as she has it yet that I know of,
Speaker 2: regarding a whole bunch of ancillary figures that are sort
Speaker 2: of tangentially connected to stuff like the Walker shooting, okay,
Speaker 2: or the Walker attempted shooting.
Speaker 3: I should her and made me take a look at
Speaker 3: her book, which I had not looked at before, and
Speaker 3: had a significant impact on the book I have coming
Speaker 3: out in January. But you know that none of that
Speaker 3: was planned. You know, I knew Gael from the Knicks film.
Speaker 3: I did not know Gayel from the Walker shooting.
Speaker 2: You know, we exactly like I said, I have done podcasts.
Speaker 2: I've done multiple podcasts with her in the past about
Speaker 2: the Knicks film and the search board and the attempt
Speaker 2: to recover it. And you know that we also know
Speaker 2: there's actively legal action against the government to try and
Speaker 2: you know, et cetera, et cetera. But she's saying at
Speaker 2: that point in time, even when she showed up. I'm
Speaker 2: not I can't comment about that right now because my
Speaker 2: lawyers have told me I cannot, but you know what
Speaker 2: else I've been doing, and she started sharing all this
Speaker 2: stuff and it was just amazing, And meanwhile it wound
Speaker 2: up having an impact on what you're see and there
Speaker 2: you go, completely unplanned, unscripted. It wasn't a huge controversy,
Speaker 2: no fistfights or near fistfights, but definitely something that just
Speaker 2: sort of happened organically at the conference.
Speaker 3: Larry, right, absolutely, and that's a good word to capture it.
Speaker 3: And that's why you know, certainly remote attending watching the
Speaker 3: presentations as great, but that you can't totally replace that
Speaker 3: by essentially organically participating in the conference in person and
Speaker 3: meeting these people and talking to people whose books you
Speaker 3: might have read or it's just kind of an existential experience, right,
Speaker 3: So if you're in I certainly recommend both the conference
Speaker 3: in person and certainly being in Dallas in person to
Speaker 3: experience y is steely Plaza.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely true. And not only that, but you know,
Speaker 2: like I had Joe Borelli on here and of course
Speaker 2: we nicknamed him Scooter Joe because a little accident he had.
Speaker 2: But I mean stuff like that you couldn't be present
Speaker 2: for and you wouldn't get on the virtual attendance. But
Speaker 2: other things including you know, I show up on Thursday
Speaker 2: night right to you know, to check into the hotel
Speaker 2: last year, and suddenly I was being told, well, you
Speaker 2: wanted to go over to Campezes while you're here in Dallas.
Speaker 2: And what is Campezes? But the restaurant you mentioned earlier, Larry,
Speaker 2: which is a place where Jack Ruby used to eat,
Speaker 2: happens to have been owned by the same family that. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 2: the Campezee brothers who were known mob figures in Dallas
Speaker 2: in sixty three, you know, one of them having visited
Speaker 2: Jack Ruby after he was arrested for shooting Oswald, et cetera.
Speaker 2: You know, it's still owned by the same family, that restaurant,
Speaker 2: and in fact, the locate that I went to is
Speaker 2: the original location that has a sign near a table
Speaker 2: that says, you know, this is the table the Jack
Speaker 2: Ruby ate at.
Speaker 3: The Jack Ruby Booth. Yes, you don't want to miss that.
Speaker 2: Right, so you have that. But I show up there
Speaker 2: and what is there but in the center of the
Speaker 2: restaurant effectively a huge long group together bunch of tables
Speaker 2: from Daley Plaza UK effectively is all lined up like
Speaker 2: twenty some odd people lined up in one massive group
Speaker 2: in the middle of the restaurant. Okay, And I show
Speaker 2: up afterwards with Gabby and I think Bob Groden was
Speaker 2: at the end of the table with me. B Pete
Speaker 2: was with me, you know a few other people and
Speaker 2: we just kind of showed up there and you know,
Speaker 2: added ourselves in with the Daley Plaza UK group, which
Speaker 2: are all people that came over from England. Ireland. We
Speaker 2: had Johnny Carnes right, who presented last year at the conference,
Speaker 2: but a bunch of people who came from overseas who
Speaker 2: have taken you know, interest and hold these virtual conferences
Speaker 2: over there a couple of times a year, Larry, right,
Speaker 2: didn't you just recently participate in one not too long ago?
Speaker 2: Or was that?
Speaker 3: I've did go to England one time to present a
Speaker 3: conference at Canterbury and have presented at their annual conferences
Speaker 3: every year for well over a decade, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's virtual for you, right, yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 2: I mean and they're constantly working on wholly different stuff
Speaker 2: from what you see over here, and it was just
Speaker 2: really great to see like twenty of them in a
Speaker 2: restaurant all together, you know, having the same idea, let's
Speaker 2: go eat at Campezes. Again. That's the kind of experience that,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sitting there with Bob, I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: with you know, all these people from overseas, and we're
Speaker 2: all at the same table. We can't even possibly have
Speaker 2: a full on conversation around a table with twenty people though,
Speaker 2: you know. So, so there's several conversation going on right
Speaker 2: around the JFK center of the restaurant in Dallas, Texas. Actually,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, Campezes. Is that just outside of Dallas
Speaker 2: or I always it's outside.
Speaker 3: It's west of down There is a Campezies downtown, but
Speaker 3: the other one is at more towards the old airport,
Speaker 3: so you had to drive away to ways to get there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's outside of downtown.
Speaker 2: The one that's outside of downtown is the original location
Speaker 2: though right rrect Yeah, okay, so that's the one you see.
Speaker 2: I don't drive, so I don't know these things, but
Speaker 2: I got a ride over there, and there we are
Speaker 2: at the original Campezes restaurant. But like I said, you know,
Speaker 2: who knows who you might run into if you had
Speaker 2: gone there the next day or the next night or
Speaker 2: the next lunchtime. Who knows, right, It's it's just really interesting.
Speaker 2: Not only that, but occasionally there's little meetings at the bars,
Speaker 2: whether it's the hotel bar or it's you know, the
Speaker 2: one that's just down the street that everybody starts talking about, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is a good place to go, you know, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, a group of people you wouldn't
Speaker 2: even expect to be together are together at a booth
Speaker 2: or a table, or just happen to be sitting at
Speaker 2: a bar. The strangest combinations of people indeed end up in.
Speaker 3: Places and you can sit you'll sit down with names
Speaker 3: of the people that wrote the books, or the conference
Speaker 3: really does go on until midnight. It just happens to
Speaker 3: go on in the.
Speaker 2: Bar, right. A lot of times goes on a bar
Speaker 2: or restaurant or something else. And like I said, I mean,
Speaker 2: Campses kind of seemed to close early compared to some
Speaker 2: of the other stuff that was going on. And even
Speaker 2: when I and you know, there's also other meetings. Now
Speaker 2: here's one you don't know about Larry, but always there
Speaker 2: ends up being a smoking section, let's call it. Okay,
Speaker 2: so the guys that are gonna vape and smoke all
Speaker 2: end up in the same place, and you'd be, uh,
Speaker 2: you'd be rather interested to see if you're you know,
Speaker 2: somebody who vapes or smokes. Again, I'm not suggesting it
Speaker 2: as a as a home game for anybody, but I
Speaker 2: happen to be a smoker, so I'm privy to this.
Speaker 2: The weirdest groups of people end up in that smoking section,
Speaker 2: And if you're going out to get a cigarette, you
Speaker 2: could run into three four people that you know either
Speaker 2: they're podcasters you listen to, or you know they're they're
Speaker 2: guys who have done films, or there are guys who
Speaker 2: have YouTube channels, et cetera, et cetera. You know, they're
Speaker 2: the Chokeholds guys. They're the guys you heard on Coast
Speaker 2: to Coast AM. You won't find Larry Hancock in the
Speaker 2: smoking section, especially now last year in the bar, but
Speaker 2: Larry you could have found in the bar, not this year,
Speaker 2: but but yeah, unfortunately, But I really hope that you
Speaker 2: get a good handle on the Facebook group, which should
Speaker 2: be live during the conference as far as I know,
Speaker 2: and a few other things like that. I mean, the
Speaker 2: virtual attendance ought to be interesting. But of course if
Speaker 2: you can figure a way to attend it there live,
Speaker 2: I would suggest it, because you're guaranteed this it will
Speaker 2: be unique and you will run into people, especially if
Speaker 2: you're well steeped in the literature, if you're well familiar
Speaker 2: with films, with podcasts, with other media that's been created,
Speaker 2: et cetera. You know, surrounding the case, you're going to
Speaker 2: run into some of those people. And sometimes they're just
Speaker 2: attendees even you know, I've seen people attend that are interestingly.
Speaker 2: Pat Spear, I have not seen him do a presentation live,
Speaker 2: but I've run into him a few times in Dallas
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 3: Malcolm Blunt routinely one of the gurus in their research
Speaker 3: it routinely and never presented, ever, ever presented. He would
Speaker 3: be hovering out in the hallway. We always accused him
Speaker 3: of like, oh, there's Malcolm behind a potted plant, and
Speaker 3: he would have documents in his jacket, and you know,
Speaker 3: never and this is one of the guys who knows
Speaker 3: more about the documentary record than anybody else. So now
Speaker 3: a lot of times there are people that don't present
Speaker 3: that you really need to get to know.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely true, And there have been various interesting things
Speaker 2: that have happened in the hallways regarding that, where you
Speaker 2: have somebody who's attending that's well known, but they're just
Speaker 2: not doing a presentation that particular year, and we have
Speaker 2: no way of knowing who may or may not show
Speaker 2: up there. I gotta be honest with you, So again,
Speaker 2: it's going to be a unique experience and one way
Speaker 2: or another, whether you do it virtually or you go
Speaker 2: in person. But if you can make it to Dallas,
Speaker 2: Texas November twenty second to the twenty fourth, I would
Speaker 2: definitely suggest that you go there. It's at the downtown
Speaker 2: Marriotte and again, Assassinationconference dot com is the website to
Speaker 2: go to so you can a register get your tickets.
Speaker 2: If you use the code Ocelly ten, you'll get ten
Speaker 2: percent off and it makes me look good, okay, So
Speaker 2: the more people that go there and sign up use
Speaker 2: ocelly ten to get ten percent off, the better I'll look. Okay,
Speaker 2: so help me out. But I definitely suggest that you
Speaker 2: attend the conference if you have a deep interest in
Speaker 2: this medium. Interest in this, or a novice interest in this,
Speaker 2: even there will definitely be something for you at the conference.
Speaker 2: And always I've never, you know, either watched a set
Speaker 2: of these videos or been part of one of these things,
Speaker 2: either virtually or in person where I'm not learned you
Speaker 2: know a great deal of new information one way or another,
Speaker 2: and also gotten to hear some remarkable speeches. I'll tell
Speaker 2: you Larry gave a remarkable speech regarding how you know,
Speaker 2: people need to search things a certain way and made
Speaker 2: some interesting statements that I think shook a couple of
Speaker 2: people up last year about you know, at how you
Speaker 2: should responsibly examine things, and even stuff like that has
Speaker 2: been remarkable during these conferences, so I know, we talked
Speaker 2: about that a lot. We talked a little bit about
Speaker 2: Daley Plaza, which is something that guaranteed no matter how
Speaker 2: many documentaries you've seen or how much film you've ever
Speaker 2: seen of it, if you haven't been there, you're missing
Speaker 2: a whole lot of information that quite honestly, I can't
Speaker 2: even put into words regarding experiencing it versus just sort
Speaker 2: of knowing it. We often hear that people don't realize
Speaker 2: how small the area is. That's true, but there's a
Speaker 2: lot more to it than just the sheer size of
Speaker 2: the area and how tightly put together all these events were.
Speaker 2: If you think about the fact that the killing of Oswald,
Speaker 2: the killing of Kennedy, the jailing of Jack Ruby, all
Speaker 2: of these things, the Zuppruder film itself, all of these
Speaker 2: things occur within like the same block. You know, it's like,
Speaker 2: it's really amazing when you take a look at the
Speaker 2: small area in which all these things occur.
Speaker 3: And I wouldn't want to it's not firm, but I
Speaker 3: will guarantee you that there is more and more talk.
Speaker 3: Dallas really wants to redo that plaza.
Speaker 2: Oh man.
Speaker 3: So while I can say right at the moment that
Speaker 3: it looks ninety ninety five percent the way it did
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty three, Dallas will redo that plausea at
Speaker 3: some point in time, and you really won't recognize it
Speaker 3: when they do. They Dallas is not happy with that
Speaker 3: plaza for many many reasons. But fortunately the good news
Speaker 3: it's still still much like it was. You can still
Speaker 3: walk it. But we really don't know. They've tried several
Speaker 3: times in one of these years they're going to make it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and they've talked about really mutilating the area.
Speaker 2: Like you said, it is relatively like it was in
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. It's not perfect, and it's been you know, Look,
Speaker 2: they resurfaced some stuff. They had to replace a bunch
Speaker 2: of missing wood out of the fence because people were
Speaker 2: stealing you know, a plant out of the fence.
Speaker 3: This is the twentieth version of the fence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know it. Look, there's a bunch
Speaker 2: of but it's still relatively like the crime scene was. Okay,
Speaker 2: but you know what if they get their way. They're
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, basically eliminating the street, eliminating you know, areas,
Speaker 2: putting in new pools and all kinds of stuff. I mean,
Speaker 2: they might truly destroy that historic site completely so that
Speaker 2: you'll only be able to experience it in photographs. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, and they and and like you said, that
Speaker 2: is something that keeps coming up. And uh yeah, I
Speaker 2: think eventually one of these.
Speaker 3: Days has the plans drawn. It's just a matter of
Speaker 3: fact when they get the funny end actually doing anything,
Speaker 3: they know exactly what they want to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and and like you said, but there's been
Speaker 2: several versions of that. You know, let's just tear it down.
Speaker 2: Let's just you know, I mean all kinds of stuff,
Speaker 2: close the area to traffic, uh, you know, all kinds
Speaker 2: of things they might do which would destroy the experience
Speaker 2: that is still available to you, you know, and some
Speaker 2: things have been destroyed already and and been mutilated a
Speaker 2: bit already. But like you said, it's still you know,
Speaker 2: you still have a relative experience to what was.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: But if they get their way, it'll not be recognizable. Larry,
Speaker 2: I mean you agree with that.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, yeah, it's just not pretty enough.
Speaker 2: Well, there you have it. So look, I know I've
Speaker 2: gone over an hour with Larry Hancock, but I think
Speaker 2: I've given you guys a good reason to check out
Speaker 2: Lancer to go if you can go the twenty second
Speaker 2: of the twenty fourth of November this month. I mean literally,
Speaker 2: we're talking what twelve days, right, yeah, twelve days No,
Speaker 2: ten days from now, excuse me, ten days from when
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to you. On the twenty second, it's going
Speaker 2: to sync up right with the anniversary of the dates
Speaker 2: that are relevant here on the twenty second of November,
Speaker 2: on a Friday, this starts, and it'll go to the
Speaker 2: twenty fourth that Sunday, you know, when Oswald was killed
Speaker 2: as it happened, you could be there, you know, sixty
Speaker 2: one years later as opposed to sixty years later like
Speaker 2: it was last year. I will be there as the MC.
Speaker 2: Larry will be participating virtually, and there is a whole
Speaker 2: list of speakers and things that should be going on
Speaker 2: and are planned to go on, and who knows what
Speaker 2: might occur that is unplanned as we just got done
Speaker 2: discussing here for the past hour plus. So Larry, I
Speaker 2: want to thank you for doing this. Anything you want
Speaker 2: to drop on us on the way out the door,
Speaker 2: because all I want people to remember is that you
Speaker 2: can follow Larry's work going to Larry Dashandcock dot com
Speaker 2: and keep track of it. I'm sure Larry will blog
Speaker 2: about this at some point and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2: Who knows, but you know, go over there. And oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, I recommend all of Larry's books and
Speaker 2: you can learn about those at Larrydashhandcock dot com. Anything
Speaker 2: you want to drop on us on your way out, Larry, No, just.
Speaker 3: Wish I could be there. I guess the only one
Speaker 3: thing I would add if people haven't taken a look
Speaker 3: at the virtual side of the conference is I know
Speaker 3: there has always been a problem for some people getting there,
Speaker 3: and if you can't get there. One of the advantages
Speaker 3: today that you have of the virtual viewing that we
Speaker 3: never had before when we just recorded the conferences and
Speaker 3: put them on CDs is if you do sign up
Speaker 3: for the virtual viewing the conference, all the presentation content
Speaker 3: is available for two for what is it, the end
Speaker 3: of January, a fair period of time, so you can
Speaker 3: come listen to it at your discretion if you had
Speaker 3: to be at work on Friday or whatever. So that's
Speaker 3: one great advantage is it's archived in a way that
Speaker 3: we never had before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can always and here's the other trick. You
Speaker 2: can take it and download it and have copies for yourself.
Speaker 2: I think there's a slightly different charge so you're able
Speaker 2: to download, but whatever it is, it's worth it, and
Speaker 2: you could watch them on demand just like you watch
Speaker 2: anything else, and even keep copies for yourself. If you
Speaker 2: get the virtual package, the right one, and again you
Speaker 2: go to Assassination Conference dot com and you can sign
Speaker 2: up for it right there and again, Oh, Shelley ten
Speaker 2: is your way to get ten percent off, And that's
Speaker 2: my name and just the number ten one zero, olly
Speaker 2: ten and there's your ten percent off. But again go
Speaker 2: to Larrydashancock dot com. I want to thank Larry for
Speaker 2: getting together with me early on a Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Here Ochili dot com.
Speaker 6: Joe Yelvis, Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action Podcast
Speaker 6: presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to
Speaker 6: the o'chilly effect revelation through conversation.
Speaker 5: In Denial The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks
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Speaker 5: covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In
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Speaker 3: Thank you.
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Speaker 3: This is James Corban at quarter Report dot com and
Speaker 3: you're listening to the Olly affected Olly dot com.
Speaker 2: Nuclear Holocaust.
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Speaker 2: About the day as right, Well, what do you want
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Speaker 2: Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for all the great information.
Speaker 9: The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
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Speaker 9: the context of the times, and reveals never before published
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Speaker 8: An it's.
Speaker 10: Watch yourself to see everybody on yours lo susten. Nothing
Speaker 10: more I can say from.
Speaker 8: If we got no well sad student come