WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:06.879 Big Food and Beyond. 2 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:08.320 With Cliff and Bobo. 3 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:12.439 These guys are your favorites. So light Chase, Subscribe and 4 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:19.920 raid it five, stay and range, just go on yesterday 5 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:24.879 and listening, oh watching limb always keep its watching. 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.399 And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay. 7 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:32.960 Hey Cliff, Hey Bobo. 8 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:33.719 How you doing today? 9 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:35.280 Good Man? Good? How's going to you? 10 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:38.000 It's going all right. It's been an adventurous week to 11 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:39.159 say the least. 12 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.240 Yeah, yeh, I had four nights out and it was 13 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:44.520 totally dead in kyos and stuff like that. I mean, 14 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:46.880 it's beautiful and all that, but anyways, it hits the 15 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:47.920 bread of the Chase today. 16 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:50.159 Yeah, we'll have to talk about bigfoot stuff later. We 17 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.439 have something a little bit more pressing on the desk today. 18 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.640 Yeah. We got a guy I first came a Wherever 19 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:57.320 a couple of years ago or whatever, maybe it was 20 00:00:57.359 --> 00:00:59.719 a year ago, and he was on Joe Rogan and 21 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.679 then he actually was on Animal Planet after we left 22 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:06.359 Forrest Galante and has got extinct or alive it which 23 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.200 basically deals with cryptids because cryptois always just has been undiscovered. 24 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:12.680 It could be something that was known to exist but 25 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:14.439 hasn't been seen thought to be extinct for a long 26 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.799 time that it's rediscovered, so that could be a cryptos 27 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:17.599 species too. 28 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:20.599 Yeah, they're kind of called them a Lazaruth species I think, 29 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:22.000 you know, after the biblical story. 30 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.000 Yep. So anyways, without further ado, this is Forrest Galante. 31 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.359 Yeah, hey, gentlemen, how are you good? Thanks for us 32 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:31.560 Absolutely great, the thrilled to have you on. 33 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.280 By the way, Like I love talking to adventures and 34 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.000 people are doing more or less the same thing that 35 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:37.760 Bobo and I are trying to do, but a little 36 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:39.680 bit different because you're actually succeeding. 37 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.599 Yeah, so far it's been good. 38 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:42.920 Yeah. 39 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.680 So yeah, I'm a wildlife biologist by trade and a 40 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:50.319 tracker and a rare species expert, and I do I 41 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:54.799 one of the things I target primarily is lazarus tax on, 42 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:59.719 which are animals that have theoretically been declared extinct wrongfully, 43 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.439 and so you know, I like to try and challenge 44 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:06.640 that notion and have done so, you know, many times, 45 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.280 but eight times successfully now. 46 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:09.759 So yeah, it's been it's been great. 47 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.159 What were your biggest ones? That a leopard and what else? 48 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.800 I'd say the biggest one ever, So we have eight 49 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:20.240 total rediscoveries now, which is it's amazing. You know, it's 50 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.039 seven more than any single organization or person has ever 51 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:26.319 done before in history. So we're really proud of it, 52 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.039 especially when we came from a stance of when we 53 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.719 started being like, I don't know if we'll ever find anything. 54 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:33.800 You know, Extinct doesn't mean hiding in a bush, it 55 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:37.439 doesn't mean around the next corner. Extinct means eradicated, gone forever. 56 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:41.120 So we were we certainly weren't as expectant to be 57 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.919 as successful as we were. But to answer your question, 58 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.639 my biggest discovery I think was actually the Fernandina tortoise 59 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:50.240 now tortoises in the Galopagos. You know, they're the icon 60 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.639 of conservation. Lonesome George was the poster child of conservation, 61 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.360 and he died in twenty fourteen, twenty twelve, something like that, 62 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.960 and since then there really hasn't been a poster child 63 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:04.080 for conservation. Well, in you know, two thousand and eighteen, 64 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.639 I discovered the Fernandina Island tortoise and animal only ever seen, 65 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.879 only ever reported once in history one hundred and fourteen 66 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:15.759 years prior by the California Academy of Sciences, never seen since, 67 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.719 never recorded, never documented, and we found that creature and Fern, 68 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.400 as we affectionately named her, is the rarest animal on earth, 69 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:26.159 you know, arguably no offense rarer than Bigfoot, because she 70 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.520 is the only one. There's only one of them as 71 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.319 far as we know, and it's the one that we found. 72 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.599 So that was that was really big for me and 73 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:34.879 big for the field of conservation in general. 74 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.840 Now, is it this one was hiding in plain sight? 75 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.719 That does it look the same as the other species 76 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.120 on the island or like, was it just differentiated by 77 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.560 its DNA or how was that the same? 78 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:45.680 No? 79 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.080 No, not at all that you know that I almost 80 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:51.840 I don't really dive into that arena, you know, of 81 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:54.639 speciation by genetics, because I'm not a geneticist. 82 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.360 I'm I'm a field biologist. 83 00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:58.039 No. 84 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.479 The island of Fernandina is the second most active volcano 85 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:03.840 in the world. It's a standalone island that has no 86 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.120 other species of tortoise. So, for those that don't know, 87 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:09.280 every single island in the Glopagos has its own species 88 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:12.599 of tortoise, some have a couple, but Fernandina the newest 89 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.360 island in the Galopagos due to its age was not 90 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.480 known to have any tortoises except for this one that 91 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:22.680 was discovered one hundred and fourteen years prior by the 92 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.199 California Academy of Sciences. A lot of people, you know, 93 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:27.240 and to tie it into what you guys do, a 94 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:29.199 lot of people said, it's not real, it's a hoak. 95 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.959 There was never a Fernandina tortoise to begin with, even 96 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.600 though there was a you know, there was a specimen 97 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:36.240 sitting in the California Academy of Sciences, we. 98 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.439 Never hear that for us, No, I'm sure never. 99 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.959 Yeah, And so you know, I knew about that specimen. 100 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.040 I've seen that specimen. 101 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.720 I've worked with a couple people that work in in 102 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.079 the turtle and tortoise industry as biologists and done about 103 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.560 two and a half years of research, and then launched 104 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:54.639 the expedition to Fernandino, which in itself was a massive 105 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:57.600 ordeal and undertaking just to get the permits in paperwork. 106 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:01.360 And yeah, she wasn't hiding in plain sight. She was 107 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.279 hiding in a deep bush. But the only species that 108 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:07.040 it could be, you know, there's no other species on 109 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:08.519 the island. So as soon as we found her, we 110 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.720 knew exactly what we were looking at, now. 111 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:12.120 Did you take her back or did you just leave 112 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:13.839 her on the island, take a few samples from her 113 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:14.319 or anything? 114 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.879 Or as I was saying earlier, the Fernandina Fernandina Island 115 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.079 is a second most active volcano in the world, so 116 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.199 it's a very volatile environment. Fern was stuck in a 117 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:28.639 small pocket of vegetation that was surrounded by impenetrable lava flow. 118 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:30.480 I mean it took us something like seven eight hours 119 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.759 in like one hundred and twenty degree heat just to 120 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:37.959 get to where she was crossing this lava flow. No quadruped, 121 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:41.639 no four legged animal on Earth could cover these lava flows. 122 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.720 I mean, it's just impossible. It's like walking on shards 123 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.000 of glass. So when we got there and found her, 124 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.120 she was super molnar, super dehydrated, and she was the 125 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:51.360 only one. So it was a little bit of like 126 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:53.560 a maral and ethical dilemma because we're like, we should 127 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:55.639 leave her, it's the right thing to do, but at 128 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.480 the same time, leaving her would almost certainly result in 129 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:00.839 losing her again, you know, not knowing where. 130 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.160 The species was, she could have very easily died. 131 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:04.959 So we grabbed her and we took her to the 132 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.040 Fosto Lorrena breeding facility on Santa Cruz Island, the main 133 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.120 island in the Galapagos, the same exact facility that housed 134 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.160 Lonesome George put her there, and she didn't leave her 135 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.600 water bowl for seven days. She was so dehydrated that 136 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.199 when she saw water, she just like, you know, I 137 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:24.000 don't mean to anthropomorphize these creatures, but she lit up 138 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.519 and she like darted in tortoise speed over to the 139 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.920 water dish and didn't leave it for seven days. So 140 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.360 we absolutely made the right decision. It sparked multiple return trips, 141 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.360 of which none have so far yielded another tortoise. But 142 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:37.680 you know, we've released millions of dollars of funding and 143 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:39.800 all kinds of great stuff due to the discovery. 144 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:43.639 Wow, so the world population, the world's known population of 145 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:44.959 these tortoises right now. 146 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.839 Is one is one the girl that we found for 147 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.279 in my goodness, Yeah. 148 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.600 I'm more excited about the stuff that you're doing in 149 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.879 Australia because, like us, Cliff and I are both into 150 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:57.360 the thigh lest scene and we were down there, we 151 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.959 were looking for the AOI and I was really say 152 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.160 about your statist, say, well, I don't know if it's yours, 153 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.279 but I think you were talking about it. The university 154 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.240 down there in Australia has twenty five hundred game counc 155 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.000 are putting on a real strategic powterern not just randomly placed, 156 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:15.519 but like geometrically lined up to cover everything multiple times. 157 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:17.720 And I hope that think gets a yawi on it. 158 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:22.319 I'm not familiar with Yowie's. What's a yowie Australian Bigfoot? 159 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.199 Oh that would make sense, gotcha. Yeah, so I kind 160 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.680 of speak much on that. I know very little about 161 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:35.079 bigfoot specifically, but yeah, So the university in Cans, Australia, 162 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:39.839 they have this large systematic approach to monitoring wildlife and 163 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.079 far North Queensland, and like you said, they have this 164 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.639 massive grid pattern of these trail cameras covering huge space 165 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.079 spaces and they are checkerboarded in the sense of diverse 166 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.279 habitats and moving them from one one zone to another, 167 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:57.319 so you know, so to speak, anything that moves in 168 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.959 that region will be captured on these camps. And one 169 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.240 of the things that Queenstown University and researchers and myself 170 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:07.600 are hoping is that it could be you know, there's 171 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.519 the potential for it to be a Thilocene. It's an 172 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.360 extremely remote part of Australia where we know these animals 173 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.519 occurred less than four thousand years ago, So if the 174 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:18.680 dingos haven't taken over, they could still be there. 175 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:21.000 As I say, is that their biggest enemy, the dingo? 176 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:24.120 Yeah, well it's a it's a variety of things. 177 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.959 But long story short, the Thiocene used to range from 178 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.040 Papua New Guinea all the way to Tasmania. When people 179 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.039 first settled Australia, they brought with them canids dingoes. So 180 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.399 a lot of people think dingos are from Australia. 181 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:36.679 They're not. 182 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:39.039 Dingos came to Australia four thousand years ago with the 183 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:44.039 first humans. Those dogs out competed them. Now, dingoes are 184 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:46.840 in Papua New Guinea, they are in Australia, but they 185 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.120 are not in Tasmania. So the last stronghold for the 186 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:54.200 Thilocene was Tasmania, you know, which we successfully eradicated them 187 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.720 from by placing a bounty on their head. But in Australia, 188 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.360 in the mainland, where we brought dingos four thousand years ago, 189 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.440 they were out competed by the dingoes. Now, the reason 190 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.000 that I think Australia is so fascinating. One, there's lots 191 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.879 of sightings and other things like that. But two is 192 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.240 dingos are they're a planes animal. They don't like certain habitat, 193 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:14.519 not to say that they won't traverse through it. And 194 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:17.879 they're they're a far better competitor than a Thilocene. But 195 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:24.039 they could easily avoid niche habitats within far North Queensland 196 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.960 Queensland that Thilocene would prefer to occupy. So in spaces 197 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.039 where thiloceine and habitats where thylosine and dingo would overlap, 198 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.039 dingo will win every time. But in certain spaces where 199 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:38.559 Dingo would choose not to occupy based on the ecology 200 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.720 of the environment, Thilocene could continue to thrive. 201 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.919 Yeah, it's a marsupial. Were they pack animals? I don't 202 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:45.240 even know. 203 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.440 No, as far as we know about their social dynamic, 204 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:49.639 they were not a pack animal. 205 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:50.080 There are. 206 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.480 They are marsupial carnivore, the largest marsupial carnivore that ever existed. 207 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:56.639 They had small social structures, so you know, a few 208 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:58.679 of them at a time, but not certainly not a 209 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.559 pack that would be the wrong to monology. 210 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.879 Now, if you're involved in a study of the violus 211 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.399 scene and trying to quote unquote rediscover them, I guess 212 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:11.159 you've certainly seen your fair share of photographs or purported 213 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.159 photographs or small videos of these things out in the wild, 214 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.159 which I'm assuming probably sparks some interest into this project, like, Hey, 215 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:21.039 these might be real. I'm curious, because I'm faced with 216 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.000 this quite a bit. What do you do, as a 217 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.240 legitimate scientist instead of like a citizen scientist like myself? 218 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.200 What do you do to try to determine the authenticity 219 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:35.039 of photographs or videos of these rare, possibly extinct or 220 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.519 not even supposedly real species? Like what do you need 221 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:40.480 to do to kind of convince yourself? Like this is 222 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:41.759 a maybe, it's. 223 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:42.279 A good question. 224 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.279 You know, we have a very systematic approach to wildlife 225 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.320 that we take, which is, you know, I have these 226 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.960 spreadsheets that they're spreadsheets on spreadsheets. 227 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:51.360 They're absolutely awful. 228 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.360 Where we you know, plug in every single sighting and 229 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:59.000 every single report and put in coordinates or approximate locations 230 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:01.399 and then we map at all. You know, So in 231 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.879 the case of the thyloscene, right, Okay, this report popped 232 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:05.519 up here, and this report popped up here, and this 233 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:07.720 report popped up here. And then when you look at 234 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.360 when you put all those into a map, you're like, oh, 235 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.320 it turns out those are only you know, I'm making 236 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.279 all this up, but three miles apart from each other 237 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:15.519 that could be the same animal. So you start to 238 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.480 get these sighting clusters right, and that's when you can 239 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.519 launch a full scale investigation. Now the difficult the difficulty 240 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.600 that comes to me and my team is the fact 241 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.879 that which of those sightings are you going to log 242 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.840 and you have to determine credibility based on those sightings 243 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:36.120 word of mouth. You know, we very rarely consider film 244 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.919 and photograph. You know, there was a famous photograph of 245 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:42.679 a super mangy fox running around Victoria, a video pardon me, 246 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:46.639 of the super mangy fox running around Victoria, Southern Australia 247 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.159 that everybody was calling a Thilocene, And you know, every 248 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.480 Yahoo in the world would go on YouTube and say 249 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:55.840 that's definitely a Thilocene where anybody with even a remote 250 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:59.159 amount of wildlife experience or biological knowledge can look at 251 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.320 and go look at it and go that's a mangie fox. 252 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:04.279 Why are we even pretending. So, you know, fortunately, with 253 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:08.639 my background in the wildlife sciences and I actually worked 254 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:10.639 with foxes for a couple of years, so with my 255 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.399 background in that, you know, some of that stuff that 256 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.120 people send me relentlessly doesn't go further than you know, 257 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.440 even looking at the title of the link, because I'm 258 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:21.080 able to know what it is. And when it comes 259 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.600 to something like thilacene, I would wager to say I've 260 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.120 seen every single video and photo of quote unquote thiolacene 261 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:30.200 caught on tape there is, and you know, none of 262 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:31.000 them are credible. 263 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:32.519 None of them. 264 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.200 Okay, I've seen I thought I've seen a couple that 265 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.960 look pretty good, but again, I'm not really into it. 266 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:37.360 I'm not really studying it or anything. 267 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.320 There's an interesting one, and I don't have it in 268 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.039 front of me, but it's it's like this this color 269 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:47.039 image of this animal that's like kind of standing up 270 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.799 on a rock with a green background where you can 271 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.559 just see a little bit of the coloration, and it's 272 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.279 you know, like, to me, that photo is interesting, you know, 273 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.840 I'm not. I would never and this just goes against 274 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:00.799 my protocol as a scientist. I would never look at 275 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:02.519 it and go, that's a thilasine. You know, it's just 276 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:06.200 not how I operate. But that photo is very compelling. 277 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.200 You know, I can't look at it and go, that's 278 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.679 a fox. So it's in that gray area right where 279 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.200 it's like between the two where it's not it's not definitive, 280 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.799 but it's certainly you can't definitively call it something else, 281 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.759 So that would be considered, you know, that would be 282 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.679 something that I would consider logging into our database to 283 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.039 to be a sighting. And so that's yeah, you know, 284 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.080 there's there's a lot of imagery out there. 285 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.440 There's nothing that's definitive. 286 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.159 Yeah, there's a lot of maybes and the that's westword. 287 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.720 You know, our focus tends to live in the maybe 288 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.000 realm all these photographs and whatever else is. And so 289 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:42.279 as far as footprint evidence of Thilocene and whatnot, what 290 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.320 do you what differentiation do you see between like regular dogs, 291 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.799 for example, and what a thilocine footprint was would look like? 292 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.480 Yeah, well, in layman's terms, a thilosine has a kangaroof foot. 293 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.399 So if you ever considered a kangaroofoot, they've got these long, 294 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:58.399 skinny feet that go along the ground versus a dog, 295 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.720 which has you know, a little paw. Now, Thilocene is 296 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.960 not exactly like a kangaroo, otherwise it would be indistinguishable. 297 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.960 But imagine the pad of a dog's foot with the 298 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.200 back end of a kangaroos. And so you know, when 299 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:15.519 I've tracked Dilocene through Tasmania and in Australia, that's what 300 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:17.600 I've been looking for. And I'll be one hundred percent 301 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.000 transparent and telling you I've never seen a track that 302 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.320 matches that description. Like we we know based on the 303 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:26.279 morphology of the animal and the museum specimens exactly what 304 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.919 a print would look like. But keep in mind some 305 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.519 of the places I track, you know, it's deciduous forests, 306 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.639 so there's no there's no dust or mud or anything 307 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.840 that leaves a track. It's just leaf litter that you 308 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.480 never see a track in. So you know, certain animals, 309 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:42.799 like I've tracked lions in Africa and list goes on 310 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:44.799 and on, it's very easy to track them based on 311 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:49.440 the habitat. Thylacene typically does not occupy a habitat that 312 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:50.799 is conducive to tracking. 313 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.399 Unfortunately, didn't you get attacked by a lion? 314 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:54.519 I have? 315 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:57.320 Yeah, and I it's it's a very overembellished way of 316 00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:00.759 putting it, but yeah, the truth is so I grew 317 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.639 up in Zimbabwe and our neighbors had a game farm, 318 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:05.120 and when I was a little kid, I used to 319 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:06.720 go over there and play with the lion cubs and 320 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:09.840 the rescues and stuff like that. And I uh, one 321 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:12.120 time I was playing with some adolescent lions and I 322 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:14.879 turned my back to leave the cage, and the lion 323 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.720 decided he wasn't done playing as I flopped the pillowcase 324 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:20.159 full of feathers over my shoulder and shredded up my 325 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:20.960 back a little bit. 326 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:22.679 Classic. 327 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.200 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 328 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:36.279 We'll be right back after these messages. Bob, are you 329 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.039 starting to notice thinning hair? 330 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:39.080 Who me? 331 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.919 Maybe a little a little hair left or a little 332 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.080 thinning hair both. 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And what I mean by 368 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:41.799 that is Africa is the Dark Continent. And I lived 369 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.559 in Zimbabwe, which is you know, it's Shauna and Tonga. 370 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.880 Are the cultures primarily there, and they're there. There is 371 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.680 not I won't say there is no Western religion because 372 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.960 that's certainly not true. But the accepted common belief system 373 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.960 is one of lore and witch doctors. And try try 374 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.079 Bible culture, you know, sometimes mixed in with some Christianity, 375 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.160 sometimes not. And I've heard it all, you know, in 376 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.039 where I grew up, in Zimbabwe, things that are misunderstood 377 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.839 are articulated as spirituality, and there's a lot of that. 378 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.960 I've heard of upright bipedal things. I've heard of witch doctors. 379 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.000 I mean, in one of my episodes, and we're in Zanzibar, 380 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.079 where we found our first major discovery and extinct leopard species. 381 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.440 The witch Doctor talks of how shape shifters would use 382 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.240 leopards to do their evil bidding. Now, this isn't something 383 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.759 that you know is like a joke or something that 384 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.880 is shared lightly. This is factual as far as the 385 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.039 people there are concerned. And so yes, that's a very 386 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.319 long answer, but the short answer is yes, I'm very 387 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:48.079 familiar with bipedal large primate creatures all the way from 388 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.720 the Congo to where I lived in Zimbabwe being reported 389 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.599 that do not match any descriptions of any known biological creatures. 390 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.079 Did you hear any of that from trusted like other 391 00:18:57.559 --> 00:18:59.839 trackers or like an older experience kind that you looked 392 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.440 up to, somebody trusted there tell you an account they 393 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:04.279 possibly had or. 394 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.799 Yeah, one d percent. I mean there are people. There 395 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.160 are gentlemen that I grew up with in Zimbabwe, trackers 396 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.440 that work. So my family ran a safari business, right 397 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.359 so they we spent all our time in the bush, 398 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:17.319 like all of it. If I wasn't in school, I 399 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.160 was in the bush. And there are trackers that I 400 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.079 grew up with, trackers that make me look like an 401 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.519