Speaker 1: You're listening to a classic edition of the Unknown Origins
Radio show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Hi,
this is Jeff Blandren.
Speaker 2: When I'm not out legend tripping or looking for ghosts,
I'm listening to Unknown Origins Radio.
Speaker 3: We live in a world filled with the unknown. Ghosts
and spirits wander through our physical dimension. Undiscovered creatures lurk
in the shadows, and strange lights and crafts seem to
dominate our skies. Modern science refuses to acknowledge their existence.
Yet credible eyewitnesses are convinced these things are real, and
it's up to independent researchers to search for the truth.
Welcome to Unknown Origins Radio.
Speaker 1: Good evening, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Unknown
Origins Radio where once again, yes, we talk about everything
having to do with this strange and paranormal and tonight
as usual, I'm joined by our co hosts. Well, first
of all, I'm Mark Johnson. I guess that would help
if I And now that's who the hell I am?
You know, people tuning in, who's that guy? I'm your host,
Mark Johnson. Joining us are our co host Carrie Ane
Versace Hey, Carrie Anne Hey, Mark and Lauren de Pinto.
How you doing, Lauren.
Speaker 2: I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 4: Mark.
Speaker 1: So how are the two kitties doing, Lauren? You picked
up a couple of new cats.
Speaker 2: Yes, I adopted to kitties this week, an adult cat
and a kitten. And they're wonderful. What a wonderful addition
to our family.
Speaker 1: Beautiful.
Speaker 2: I'm having such a good time.
Speaker 1: My wife's jealous. Now she's talking, Oh, we need to
go get another one.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going to be causing a lot of problems,
aren't I on Facebook?
Speaker 1: Sorry in advance, too many cute pictures on Facebook. I'm sorry.
They must they must be deleted. Anyway, We've got a
wonderful show for everybody. Tonight. We got a fantastic guest.
I'm really excited to announce him. But before we do,
once again, and we're going to be spending the next
few shows leading up to March to talk about of course,
you guessed it, Phenomenology one oh four. And what's it
called this year? They're calling it Parapalooza.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for Losa.
Speaker 1: So tickets are now on sale. They've announced their full
guest list. They've got everybody and everybody in the paranormal
that's been invited to this event, So be sure to
go to Phenomenevents dot com you can buy your tickets.
It's March twenty second through the twenty fifth. We are
going to be there. Unknown Origins Radio will be there
this year. Of course it's my first year. But you
two have you know you had your debauched fund last year.
Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 4: It's fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did want to say they added Chris Williams
from Ghost Hunters into National recently, so that's a big
bonus for them this year.
Speaker 1: Lots of great guests, a lot of friends of our
show here, Patrick and Burns and Marley Gibson are gonna
be on. John Zapfis is going to be on. Oh
my god, who well, Chip Coffee is going to be there.
Who else helped me here? Ben Hansen from sci Fi's
Factor Faked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're Jeff Salinger yep.
Speaker 1: So we're going to have a wonderful time. So be
sure to get your tickets, come on down see us
all in person. We're going to have a blast. I
guarantee you got and scared, Oh yeah and scared. Yeah,
you kind of forgot about them, don't you.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you can't forget about them.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna forget about my scared Well, anyway, getting into
tonight's show, we have a great guest. We're really excited
that he was able to come on, and I'm gonna
get right into producing. Mister Cliff Barrickman from the Animal
Planet hit show Finding Bigfoot. How are you doing tonight, Cliff,
I'm doing great.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much for coming on. We're really
excited to have you here. And I have to admit
I'm an unabashed fan of the show. You know you
last season, you guys came in and just did six episodes,
and now you've for this season. They picked you up
for how many episodes this season?
Speaker 4: Well, let's see, technically, I guess it's eleven if you
count the California Bluff Creek two Hours special as one episode.
So we did that one, which aired on you know,
Halloween or the day before, I believe, and then we
did ten others which will be airing all throughout the
beginning of the year here for season two.
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I want to complain about that
you need to take back to the Animal Planet execs,
is you know showing have them show when an episode airs,
repeat it on Animal Planet. I missed that Bluff Creek episode.
I heard how fantastic it was and the experience is
that especially Renee had you know, miss Skeptic who kind
of had her eyes widen. A couple of things happened
to her out there, and I missed it. And every
time it's supposed to come on, I set my DVR
and something happens and a doesn't tape. So to date
I have not yet seen it, and I'm so upset.
Speaker 4: That's the curse of bigfoot, you know, whenever there's a
like ten bigfoot around together, something wrong, like the.
Speaker 1: Gin gen or the men in Black who've been perimenting
us lately. Now, Cliff, you know, on being a radio show,
I do have to ask the typical boring radio show questions.
But you know, a lot of our listeners who don't
know much about your background. I was wondering if you
can tell us how did you get into investigating bigfoot sasquatch.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll say that I was always interested in the
subject since I was a little boy. I remember talking
about bigfoots when I was like five years old or
something like that, and I've always kind of retained that quirky,
eccentric sort of interest in everything monsters, you know, as
I was growing up. But it wasn't until I was
in college. A few hour break in between classes and
I would wander around through the library kind of picking
random books off the shelf covering topics that I was
interested in. And one day I stumbled into the anthropology
section and I pulled a book off the shelf that
had a collection of scholarly papers written on the Sasquatch.
Some of these papers, most of them in fact, were
written by cultural anthropologists, but several of them were written
by physical anthropologists, most notably Growver Cramps. And so I
started reading through that, and I really grabbed my interests,
you know. And then I spent the next week or
two in the library of a chance, I got reading
the thing that I could pull off the shelf, and
it started occurring to me like, not only our bigfoots
funny and quirky and weird and stuff that I've always loved,
it might be real biological creatures. So I started doing
field work and since then I've just become utterly engrossed
into the topic and am drownding it on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Now, what is your background? Yeah, you started getting into
a lot of this in college too. Do you have
a background in anthropology or no?
Speaker 4: I don't. Actually, I've always been very, very interested in
the physical sciences for a while. I was a physics
and astronomy major in college until I encountered calculus too,
which kind of turned me out with that cunjurary pretty freakly.
I played around with marine biology because I used to
work in fishing tackle stores and whatnot. When I grew
up in southern California. I was fishing the island any
officiing tuna and stuff like that in Mexico and stuff.
So I really enjoyed that. We've always had a keen
interest towards the physical sciences. I eventually, I eventually landed
in the music department, and I have a degree in
jazz guitar of all things. From there, I moved on
and even though I still do gigs, I played a
jazz guitar duet around here in Portland, Oregon. We're called
most Strings Attached. It would play with another seven string
jazz guitarists so it sounds like just about five of
us playing in its just two. So I do that
sort of thing. But my professional life, I've taught elementary
school for about thirteen fourteen years until the TV gig
came up because I found early on, I mean, aside,
I'm pretty smart and bright and funny and all that
other stuff. So again, all modesty aside, if I may
toot my own horn of it, and I found that
I'm not really really excellent at anything, but I'm pretty
weren't good at most things. And you know, that's kind
of the job description of an elementary school teacher where
we're teaching multiple subjects. So that's what I've been doing
professionally until the Animal climate gig came up.
Speaker 1: Now, how did Okay, I'm sorry, you go ahead of LA.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I have to before we switch off the
subject of teaching. You taught fourth grade.
Speaker 4: I've fought fourth, fifth, and sixth grader.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Now, what did your students think about
your interests in bigfoot? I mean, did you share that
with them?
Speaker 4: Oh? Of course, it's hard to hide. Honestly, I tried
to hide it for one year. I wasn't very successful, though,
mostly because my principal was a little wary about it,
but you know, she eventually came around, and you know,
maybe eccentric, but I'm not a weirdo. So things kind
of came around and everything was okay. But the longest
short of it is my students love it. I mean,
whether they believe in Bigfoot or not. And really the
classroom is a microcosm of the American public. Everybody pretty
much loves Bigfoot or has some interest, whether they believe
the creatures are real or not. And it also has
something to do with the way I run my classroom
because I found out in my classroom a long time
ago that if I treated myself like a god, the
students would too. And so I come in with this
sort of like mock arrogance wherever. You know, like you've
probably seen the Stephen Colbert show, The Colbert, Yeah, you know,
how he treats himself like a god. That's very much
the same way that I've always treated myself in my
own classroom. And you know, the students, like for a
couple of days, they go along with it, and they
start realizing that I'm just doing it as a joke
because I think it's funny, right, and then pretty soon
they tag along. So any weird thing I bring to
them weird being big Twitter or whatever else im I
brain because I'm always doing something outrageous in the classroom
because I'm competing with television, and in order to keep
the student's attention, I need to do that stuff. So
whatever sort of off the wall thing I bring to them,
they know it's going to be under that character that
I run in my classroom, where I am a god
in my classroom, and they should all, you know, do
anything I say. That's the whole thing. So I am.
I think generally speaking, if you surveyed the you know,
three or four hundred students I've had, or however many
I've had over the last xcember of years, all of
them will remember me, and I'd probably be their favorites
amongst at least half of them. So they love the Bigfoot,
saying they just love You're a cool teacher.
Speaker 2: You're trying to know where were you when I was
in school.
Speaker 4: I don't know. It might might have been in school,
I don't know.
Speaker 2: Hold you Yeah, yeah, we're betting for the same team.
Let's just say that I'll go no, further. But that's great.
Oh my gosh. I wish that there were more teachers
like you, really, because I have two small children, and
you know, some of their teachers that they've gone through
they're dry or they're so old that they really need
to retire. You know.
Speaker 4: I've always thought that if I'm not having a good
time in the classroom, neither are my students. So I
make darn't sure that I'm having a great time in
my classroom.
Speaker 1: It's fantastic, now, Cliff, how you mentioned your big You've
been teaching since you got the show gig? How did
that happen? How did that come about for you?
Speaker 4: The gig, the Animal Plunge show.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're finding Bigfoot.
Speaker 4: Uh. Basically, our production company, Ping Pong Productions, which is
a great company. They do a Destination Truth and a
few others. I think they have like four or five
shows in the air, I remember, right, So they're great company.
They pitched the show and they got picked up My
Animal Planet, and then they started looking for uh, you know,
bigfooters basically, and I've been running a you know, a
pretty popular blog, I guess, and I have a website
and whatever else that's kind of a you know, a
cash for uh storing data and that sort of thing.
So they found me, basically, they found me and called
me like a year ago November, a couple of years
ago November, and they kind of courted me and asked
me if I'd be interested, And you know, I was
tentative because I was teaching and a lot of stuff,
and so I sent them some clips. You know, in
the meantime, I'd done some monster quests. I did Monster
Quest once, and I did that Bob Saggot gig, and
so there is some stuff with me on television. They
took that stuff and they floated it by focus groups
and whatever, and they called me back, you know, many
many months later and asked me if I'd be interested
in doing it. So, and of course, when an opportunity
like that comes along, it's pretty hard to say no, yea,
because life is short and the good news is we're
all gonna die. So and there's a good there's great news.
That means you can make mistakes and it won't be
long until those mistakes don't matter anymore.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. That's very cool.
Speaker 2: That's cool. Take a chance.
Speaker 4: Life is crazy, and mine seems to be particularly crazy,
but life is crazy. So grab the bull pluff arms,
go for the ride. See what happens, because existence is
beautiful and so far some of my base mistakes given
me the biggest blessings. And I mean, I'm not wise
enough to know what's good for me, but so I'm
just kind of went along for the ride.
Speaker 1: See. Now, we have several friends of our of the
shows that you know, have been on several different television
programs over the last couple of years, and you know,
we hear everything from you know, you know, good experiences
to not quite so good experiences, and you know, it's
a tough industry to be in, especially when you're worried
about Okay, you you shout all these shows, now are
people going to watch them? What are the ratings going
to be?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: All right? Do you find that when you guys are
doing the show that you have a lot of that
pressure in the background, either from the production company or
the or the network to you know either you know,
not to beat things up, but you know, to affect
how you're doing your investigations.
Speaker 4: Yes, and now I will when we're out on the
road in my headstro FID construment and I think it's
fair to say. No matter what I say on tonight's show,
I can only speak for myself, so I can't speak
for Bobo, matter in a or anybody else. By and large.
When we're out on the road doing the last thing
on my mind is ratings. Because I keep my integrity
about me as a big flitter and just a person.
You know, I'm not going to go And first of all,
I'm not going to lie about anything on the air.
If I say something on the air, that's because I'm
believing it. I could be wrong, and I'm totally open
to being wrong, and I think most people should open
that possibility a little bit wider. It seems there seems
a very I don't know, any stigma in the bigfoot community.
I can't be wrong, so I'm going to defend my
position no matter what. Well, you know, I'm very open
to being wrong and exploring possibilities. So if I say
it on the show, I believe it. I'm not going
to lie about that. Now. There is a balancing act
that that was very difficult, particularly the first season, between
Bigfooting as I know it and making television, you know,
and you know, like when we're out I remember the
first season, a couple of times we were out on
the road and we did howls and coyotes called back.
And like the producers, you know, who are generally la
sort of people, they go, what was that? You know,
I'm we're excited? It was the coyotes, man, and yeah
it is. Okay, well, well can't you get excited about that?
And we tried to explain, like, okay, we've been doing
this for twenty years. Man, if we got super excited
every time we heard.
Speaker 5: Coyotes, there goes your conditions that and there goes your uh,
your credibility too, because people are going to know their coyotes.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, but you know what. They explained things to
me and and like, okay, Cliff, you know what, the
most of the audience, they don't know it's coyotes. We're
not going to see it's a bigfoot, but we want
to see your enthusiasm. You know. One of the producers
in particular was very careful, and what she explained to
me is that, Okay, Cliff, you've been in the classroom forever.
You know the vinegar and basing soda, you know volcanoes,
thing know where you mix them together. And food coloring
in it. And while you have a volcano, if you're
doing that for sixth graders or fifth graders, you don't,
you don't like do it and then let it go flat.
You get it tided about it every year you do
it because your students dependent on correct you know what
I mean, Like, don't like basically told they basically reminded me,
don't lose the magic because what we're doing out there
in the woods is fun and it is kind of incredible,
and it's a it's a great thing, and not everybody
gets to do this. I'm taking and basically the way
I look at it, and I know this is a
real long winded, roundabout way to answer your question. My
classroom went from thirty students to one point six million.
And I'm trying to take every single person out there
in TV land out in the woods with me, big thing,
and I view that as a heavy responsibility, and I'm
going to get enthoosed about it. Like I don't know,
if you saw the Rhode Island episode, it was a
bart out above me and I loved it. And all
I need to do is remind myself that I don't
have to fake anything, but I can tap into that
that what's the word, like innocent, wide eyed view of
the woods at night and try to bring that to
the people at home. I think that's a beautiful thing.
That's really cool, and it's a really neat responsibility and
I don't know, it's just so does that answer the question?
I'm kind of just rambling there.
Speaker 1: We're loving this. This is actually fascinating. It's really casing because, like.
Speaker 5: You were saying, you know, you've been doing it for
so long and it's really hard not to get jaded.
So now I understand what you're saying that you know,
it's an honest enthusiasm and if you're not showing enthusiasm,
you're not going to bring in the audience and they're
not going to feel the enthusiasm. So I totally understand
what you're.
Speaker 4: Saying, right right, you know what, I kind of when
I'm out there, I kind of do it as I'm
taking the producers bigfooting and they don't know any better.
So let's get them excited, let's get them loving this.
And that's my job in a way, you know, because
I'm a bigfooter. But that's not my job. My job
is to make a TV show, and even though those
things are sometimes hard to mix, there's a really cool
gray area middle ground that both can be, both can
need at and I think that's where the magic happens.
And when there's a really really cool moment on finding Bigfoot,
that's when we've reached that place.
Speaker 2: No fantastic, You're like the Anthony Robbins of the Bigfoot world.
I love it. You're so positive and energetic and enthusiastic.
I love it.
Speaker 4: Well. Like I said earlier, we're all gonna die. How
do I work my life good for you?
Speaker 1: And see when you die you come to us because
we're actually you may not know this, we're actually a
paranormal investigator. So we do ghost hunting as our end
of it. And so we've had many of our own
experiences so we can relate, and we've been you know,
we've actually been on a couple of our own shows
that didn't quite have the best of experiences, but you know,
it's that's the nature of the beasts sometimes. Now, I
did have a question for you about the Bigfoot Field
Research Organization. Did you ever work with the BFRORO before
finding Bigfoot or you know, I know that they pushed
that a lot for the show, with Matt Moneymaker being
the founder of the BFRORO. I don't know, had you
met Matt or Bobo or Renee worked with any of
them before the show.
Speaker 4: I've been friends with Bobo since about I don't know,
two thousand and four fives, I think somewhere in there.
And I think I met Matt sometime in the same
time span. I was a member of the BFRO for
a long time. I don't think I'm currently a member,
but I mean it doesn't really matter to becase I'm
an independent Bigfoot investigator and more than happy and willing
to work with anybody. I'm really not much of a
joiner or anything like that. I mean, even political parties,
I don't care. It's kind of like the Groucho Marks thing.
You know. Anybody who would have any club that would
have me as a member, I wouldn't want to join.
So I kind of take that route with everything. But yeah,
I've known Matt and Bobel for quite some time. I've
spent a lot of I've done a lot of great
places and spent a lot of time in the woods
with Matt before, and I mean, heck, Bobel and I
are We were pretty much we pretty much are still
best friends. I mean, we love each other that He's
a great, great guy and I. One year, I took
a voluntary leave of absence for my work. It's actually
as in between moving various places, so I was kind
of homeless for a year on purpose. And I've spent
most of that year in the woods between the southern
Sierras of California and British Columbia. And I think that
year Bobo and I logged almost two hundred nights in
the woods together that year.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: So he and I are very close and we're very
very good friends. That happened for some time.
Speaker 1: You could see that chemistry on screen too. I mean, Bobo,
he seems like such a great guy, and when you
two are interacting on the show, you could see that
friendship definitely coming on into people's living rooms.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but it was a huge joy the show
for me and Renee. I've never met Renee before the show,
but she's been around in some circles. I just never
ran across her.
Speaker 1: Now, when working on the show, you guys spend a
lot of hours together, and you know, how's been that
working relationship working with the cast for these two seasons.
Speaker 4: For me, it's been it's been good and bad. It's
been it's been a little difficult at times. But part
of that is not only my nature, which is of
course being an introvert. I'm very introverted. I spend a
lot of time alone. A lot of my big footing trips,
Like I take a week or two off during the
summer when as a as a teacher to go bigfooting
alone and just travel around. I love being alone. I
love the quiet of the woods. And you know, traveling
around as an entourage of six seeing cast crew and
producers can get a little taxing on me. And then
of course when you get the cast members together, we're
honestly a bunch of stubborn, pig headed people because you
kind of you kind of have to be if you're
going to devote your life to chasing something that everybody
else tells you doesn't exist. So we have a bunch
of strong opinions and you know, and whatever else. And
there's some you know, there's some clashing, but the same
kind of clashing you would expect like in a in
a family gathering, a Thanksgiving or something like that, anybody
wears thin on you after a while, and when you're
particularly stubborn and pig headed, like we all are, it
can happen every even even more so. And sometimes that
I imagine comes through the screen as.
Speaker 1: Well well, where your personalities really do come out in
the show, and that's one of the things that makes
the show enjoyable. It's not just cut and dry, okay,
people walking in the woods looking for bigfoot. Your personalities
are definitely forefront in the show, and that's what draws
the audiences in. They you know, is in first rule
of filmmaking. You know, if you don't care about your characters,
and your film's going to fail. And watching you guys
interact now, the one thing that I really got a
kick out of is, you know, watch the first season.
Loved it, and then when you started doing the repeating
the season and entitling it the further evidence where you
all came in. It was like watching VH one pop
up video with your comments coming up on screen talking
about the episode while we're watching it. That was an
absolute hoot. I had such a blast watching you guys's comments.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was great because that gave an
opportunity for some character development, because you're absolutely correct and
that the show really isn't about bigfoots. It's about these
four weirdos that go look for bigfoots, and that's that's
really the clincher there. In fact, if the Animal Planet
Offices they have a poster of finding big Foot, it
is and it's not about big Foot. It's about the
people who look for them, you know, and they're actually life. Yes, yeah,
I think that's a very very well said actually how
to fit it there?
Speaker 1: Now? Now having said that, with working on this show,
in all the years that you've been finding big looking
for Bigfoot, have you ever found Bigfoot or you have
you ever found I know we've seen you find some
evidence on the show, but have you ever actually seen
the creature?
Speaker 4: That's a great question. My answer is not a great answer.
It's maybe if I have seen a Bigfoot. It was
actually on the North Carolina episode of Finding big Foot
Season one where we investigated Mike's Mike greens footage. One
of those nights. It was actually the very very first
night expedition we ever attempted with the production company. If
I don't know if you recall or not, that there
are these witnesses at king Forward and said that they
went to a spot and they had bigfoots around them
in camp and they were throwing rocks at their tenth
all night. Yes, we actually went to that spot, which
was not easy to get to. It was a four
and a half hour walk if you took the trail,
or about forty five minutes or an hour if you
went off trail, so about you know, a mile and
a half two miles in off trail, which is the
route we took with you know, an entourage of the
two camera guys, a sound person and a couple of
producers and a horde of witnesses and whatever else. So
we went out there that night and it was two
in the morning or so if I remember correctly, and
then we were in between the scenes. They started my
DVR backpack nonsense with that silly camera that looks me
in the face. And I hear Matt going, who's on
the hill right? And we ignore them because it's Matt
saying that's right, who's on the hill right? And I
don't know, you know, no one's on the hill. Cliver
you up, No, I'm not on midill, Matt Boglo, No,
and who's on the hill. And they go, dude, no
one's on the hill, and relaxed, and because someone's on
the hill, and that's when people started looking at the
thermal imagery of man was holding and there was a
bite people's face. You're standing about seventy five yards from us,
up on the hill, alone in the dark, watching us,
And he goes, who are you like that? Then the
thing starts walking and Matt yells at it again quite loudly.
The thing stops in mid stride, stands on one leg
for two or three seconds in mid stride with the
arms out and the whole thing, and Matt goes, he
understands me, or whatever you hear me, or whatever you
said at that point. And then I figured what back
is Matt yelling about? Right? So I turned my thermal
imaguer over there, and I see the bipedal's figure walking
from left to right in my viewfinder. It did not
walk like Patty from the Patterson Genlin film, but it
didn't walk like a human being either. It walked into
sort of like undulating. Its legs looked like it was
riding a bicycle, but its arms looked like it was
reaching out in front of it and pulling itself forward,
almost like you would if you were in the shallow
end of a pool and they're using your arms to
repel yourself. That was the gate that I witnessed, and
I looked that thing. My jaw dropped and I said,
holy crap, that is a bigfoot or a human being.
And then Matt took off after it because he was
positive that it was a human being. He thought it
was some guy spying on it or something. I don't
know what he was talking about, but he was positive
as a human being for some reason, even though when Ay,
Bobo and I all say that it was one color
from head to toe in the thermal imagery. Whatever it was,
Matt chased after it with a thermal imager and night
vision and a night vision monocular and never saw the
thing again. I paralleled the bottom of the ridge line,
thinking that maybe it would go over the hill and
I'd get another chance to see it. I never saw
it again. Whatever it was was almost two miles off
Trail two in the morning, navigated navigating a thickly wooded
hillside without a light in the middle of you are
a national forest in North Carolina. So was that a bigfoot.
I don't know. The circumstances kind of point to a
big in my opinion, but money Maker up said the
exact opposite, So I don't know, was it. I have
no idea if that was a big fit or not.
Speaker 1: Actual Leaning towards Renee saying the exact opposite, could she
convince it's all a human being?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Did you find any footprints or anything? Did you go
to the site where it was standing?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I went up there. I went up there
and looked around. I did not find anything. It was
generally forest witter, you know which. The foot prints very
well at all. The footprints are amongst the rarest kinds
of evidence. In my opinion, it is far easier to
actually see a big foot than find footprints. Really gosh,
oh yeah, yeah. I think there's ten thousands of sighting
reports on record, and there's there's less than three hundred
footprint casts in exist.
Speaker 1: But then there was also the episode in the first
season where you came across a couple of very pristine
looking prints.
Speaker 4: Yeah, those were quite interesting, quite interesting. They were at
that time the best footprints I had seen in the ground,
and of course I cast them, which is what everybody
should do. A little perplexed as to what left those prints.
There were some things about it that really do point
the Big Foot For me. However, looking very closely at
the anatomy that's visible in the prince, I'm kind of
wondering if it couldn't be a bear or not. Doctor
Jeff Meltman, and we've worked together sometimes and I get
some footprints as in it his way, because I deeply
value this opinion. He's of the opinion that those are
of a bear, and he very well might be right.
But the point of the whole thing, at the point
of any footprint is to cast it and find out
what you have. The fact that these things that those
two footprints that I have, the heel is not rounded,
which points to bear, and there's also a visible there's
a visible joint in the middle of the back of
that foot that also points to bear. But at the
same time, there were no other bear prints in that area,
and there were no toe prints in the middle of
it like there should have been for a double stepping bear.
So they are ambiguous. But if I had to put
my money on it right now, I would say that
they're more likely like sixty percent chance that they could
be a bear print. But you know, just for the
sake of full disclosure. On my website and Clifferrickman dot com,
I have a footprint cast database and those footprints are
in there, and I put the dialogue, the email dialogue
between doctor Jeff Meltrem and I on those on the
page that holds those footprints for everyone to see and
everyone to read and come to their own conclusions. Because
that's science. Science. There's an important step in science is
peer review. What do you think about it? Can you
prove me right? Can you prove me wrong? What do
you think? And it doesn't have to be a contentious argument.
It could be it could be I don't think so,
I do think. So this is what I think. Great? Great,
And so that evidence that data is out there for
everyone to look at and make it their own. Linds.
Speaker 5: So, Cliff, let me ask you, because we have a
thermal imager that we use and I'm not sure if
people understand that you can actually just use it to
as almost like a flashlight. You don't have to record, now,
will you guys recording when you were doing this or no?
Because you were walking through the woods.
Speaker 4: We generally are recording the entire time we're out there.
That particular time when we saw that thing on the hill,
Matt's recorder was not running, and he took off before
anybody could turn it on. I think somebody caught up
to him and managed to get it on while he
was running through the woods or whatever. He's a very
emotional guy, you know, so he says what he thinks
is right all the time, whether it is or not.
My recorder was supposedly running, but for some reason, it
didn't start recording until the thing was a blip on
the hill and it just went over. And I have
no explanation for that, because it's.
Speaker 1: There, you go.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 4: Everyone's heard of Murphy's law. I strongly suspect that Murphy
was a sasquatch.
Speaker 1: Here and here. I thought Murphy was an optimist now it.
I heard a debate this week actually on a on
a fellow radio show, and and knowing you were coming on,
I really wanted to ask what your opinion is Being
now a professional bigfoot hunter, do you what is your
opinion on the idea that science is not going to
accept this creature unless somebody kills one and brings in
a body. Are you are what as you do you
lean for towards, you know, having that body brought in
for science and killing one of these creatures or or
what is your opinion on that?
Speaker 4: My opinion is that sasquatches should not be killed. And
as far as I'm concerned for any reason, I think
that killing a type specimen, that's what they call the
type specimen. A killing a type specimen of a sasquatch
is just generally kind of a rude idea. And I
also think it's outdated. Frankly, I think that's a very
nineteenth century sort of Darwinistic ideas, you know, and Darlin
was sailing to the Galapagos and whatnot. That's a beautiful bird,
Let's kill it and find out what it is. You know,
maybe that's suitable for earthworms or you know, small lizards
or something like that. But I think that's totally an
utterly inappropriate for any great ape. And my mind, you,
when I say great ape, I mean the biological classification,
and I include human beings in that. Human beings are primates.
We do not have tales, and that makes us apes
in the family of apes. A lot of people really
get their their you know, their their hackles up about that.
But it's it's a biological classification, and that's the way
I use that. In fact, I don't think that they're
honestly out think there's that big of a difference between
us and the except of great apes. As it is,
they are intelligent, problem solving, sentient, self aware beings that
have a language capabilities, lack the anatomy to make the sounds.
Speaker 1: So actually that sounds a lot more intelligent than a
lot of the people I know.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's the way I kind of, I mean,
I'm kind of tongue in cheek, you know, at those
town hall meetings, and I say that big sooots are
smarter than some of our next door neighbors. And that
might actually be true. We don't know much about these things,
and I think that frankly, it would probably be a crime,
not at this point because it's not really in the
books unless you're in s Camania County of Washington, but
I think it would be a moral crime to kill
one and bring one in antiquity antique idea. In my opinion,
I think that because here's the deal, Fasquatches are real,
and because of that simple fact. That means that if
you like, academic acceptance of the species is inevitable, it
will happen. There's no rush on that, right, and some
trucker is going to roll one down, or somebody important
is going to see one in vida or something. So
since academic acceptance or a quote unquote discovery, if you
want to call it that, I don't call it that
because you know what, North America didn't need discovery. You know,
tens of thousands of people knew was here, just like
tens of thousands of people know bigfoots are real. They
don't need discovering either. So whenever academic acceptance comes, you
only get one first impression. Do we want the first
impression of the sasquatch on the American public to be
a bloody corpse on a slab? Or do we want
to be extended video of a female sasquatch interacting with
its young. What would be better for the species. Well,
obviously the answer is the video, and the video is
not proof of anything. But in my opinion, academic acceptance
or discovery is not going to happen in a flash.
There's going to be a rising tide of acceptance more
and more people will turn their head that way and
start looking at the data instead of ignoring the data
as they have been, And all you have to do
is delve into the data. Before long, you're pretty convinced
bigfoots are real because you know what, none of those
scientists have ever seen an atom either, but they're pretty
sure atoms are real too, based on the data. And
that's where I suggest academics look.
Speaker 5: But it's but I find it so ridiculous because okay,
they're so rare, there may be only a handful, but
let's kill one. I mean, what kind of what kind
of logic is that? I mean, it's you know.
Speaker 4: It's well, so many times I hear every well, they
might be they might be in our own genus. I'm
of the inclination to think that they are. You know,
we are Homo sapiens sapiens. That's our species name. Homo
is the genus name. I strongly think that they're in
our genus. I could be wrong, and they could be
something brand new for all I know. I don't know anything,
but they show a lot of signs of being very,
very human like. And you know, the more human like
something is, the more of a crime it is to
kill it. Let's agree that I'm encouraging acceptance, the academic
acceptance based on data for the first time and probably
the most important time in all human history.
Speaker 1: I totally completely agree with you. I mean, if there's
these creatures, whatever they are, I mean, there's obviously thousands
of them across not only the United States, but there's
evidence that there exist almost worldwide. And you know, if
these animals have obviously have a social structure, there's been
observations of families. Uh. The one video that that you investigated, Uh,
I believe was was it Tim Green that had the
what looked like the young satchel baby sat squatch up
in the tree in New York. No, that was another.
That was another that was Yeah, the other not Tim Green,
the other video, you know, And and I've heard many
other stories of people who've seen these as family units.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: There's the famous case of I think I got the
name right, and now I just got the connection. I'm
laughing at Bobo. There were back in the eighteen hundreds
some miners or somebody captured what seemed to be a
young bigfoot and they had a jack O Jacko.
Speaker 4: That was it. Jacko eighteen eighty eight outside of Yale,
British Columbia.
Speaker 1: Yes, and Jacko, they kept him for a while, they
studied him for a while, but you would it's funny
that there's these academics kept this animal and now we
basically have no record of it. And supposedly Jacko died.
Was was he sent over to Europe or something?
Speaker 4: And what happened to him? Apparently he was held in
the cage in Yale, British Columbia for a short time
and then he disappeared. Academics did not in factful and
those are townspeople like the railroad guys who got him,
and no one really knows what happened to him afterwards. However,
a couple of big footers, Chris Murphy and Tom Steinberg,
they've done some work on this. They located the original
Yale town because it's now been moved a little bit
away from where the mill was, where the old town was.
They've done a lot of sleuthing in that general area,
so they know actually more about that situation than I do.
Speaker 1: It's there seems to have been a lot of interactions.
Bigfoot stories go back with the with the white settlers,
or white people for a couple of hundred years, and
of course the Native Americans have their tales that literally
go back thousands of years. But we've talked to some
other bigfoot researchers on our show about you know, some
of these famous cases, like the Ape Canyon incident back
in the nineteen twenties, those miners who fought off what
seems like a bunch of angry bigfoots at night after
shooting one. Albert Osman's experiences of being captured by a
bigfoot family and living with it for almost for a
few days before he was able to escape. Whether these
stories are true or not, I mean they seem there's
enough of the stories that seem to be based in
fact that we've been dealing with these creatures for a
long time. But here we are now, in the twenty
first century, mankind has, you know, especially here in America,
we've we've like exploded in our population. But yet there's
still these isolated pockets out there in the continent and
around the world where these things can still seem to
exist and thrive.
Speaker 4: You know, I would I would actually say that almost
the converse is true. It's these isolated pockets in which
humans live. There is a tremendous there's a tremendous amount
of land that frankly isn't thickly inhabited at all, even
in California, and the correct me if I'm wrong, but
I couldn't. California, I believe as the most people of
our ball the tippy States, but they're all they're all
located mostly along the coast and these urban centers and
outside of town, even in places like Monterey, California. Yeah, Monterey,
in all that area that has a lot of people there.
But you go outside of town, just a little bit
of south of there, and lo and behold, there's a
military base hunter Ligot. There's Sasquatches on hunter Ligate, you know,
right outside of town San Francisco. You go north a
Bitin's in Noma County, and there's some places on the
Snoma County coast even though there are households in their sasquatches.
There are Sasquatches in all of the forty nine states
except for Hawaii, which makes sense, and it's only in
these weird urban centers. Now, I believe I read it.
I could be wrong, but I believe this past year
year before I read an article that stated, for the
first time in all human history, over half the population
was an urban centers. Wow. Now that's a very very
small area. The people outside of urban centers, they lived
pretty far away from each other. Generally speaking, there's not
very dense and frankly, there's a lot of land. There's
a lot of land. And you know, people say that
we're a big foot high. Well, that shows kind of
like that shows someone who's not familiar with being outside
in the woods. There's a lot of land. Rhode Island
is a great example. You know, the Rhode Island episode
was on this past Sunday. When I heard we're going
to Rhode Island, I was thinking, why, you know, I mean,
there isn't it all like farm land and you know
city And it turns out I get there. Well, it
was a lot of farmland, but all that farmland has
been left and given back to the forests. Even though
Rhode Island is the most densely populated states in all
the forty nine states, fifty nine percent of the land
in Rhode Island is forested. That's a lot of lands
in these big foots, especially throughout very many of them
to move around and don't forget. Their most active at night,
at least they seem to be, and at night nobody's
out there. They have the run of wherever they want
to go.
Speaker 1: Now they're in most in every state, as you mentioned,
the forty nine states, and in any area where there
seems to be forest, there is one time or another
people have reported some type of bigfoot activity. I live
up in the very northwestern part of New Jersey near
the New York state border, and we have our own
big foot up here. They call them big Red Eye.
It doesn't make a lot of appearances, but it's seen
every once in a while. They hear the screams coming
in from the mountains at night that a town of
Wantage north to me ten years ago had instance where
something was coming in down from the mountains that wasn't
a bear. Cops chased it a few times, and it's
made the newspaper a few times too, and other cases
around the Wanaque Reservoir in Morris County. People have seen
it out near the Delaware water Gap. So a lot
of places, even here locally, and this is such a
densely populated state like New Jersey is you still have
activity here too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's correct, that's correct, And you know, Sasquatches just
frankly don't need as much land as one would think,
especially if they're just passing through an area. And that
really was driven home to me when I went to
Eastern Ohio. I did a trip with Matt Moneymaker a
few years back to Eastern Ohio following up on some
excellent vocalizations that recorded in Beaver Creek State Park. When
I was there, I was struck, like how much of
that land was actually cleared for farm land. But the
bigfoots there when they're not inside the state parks, which
you know, are actually fairly large and acreage and have
a lot of lands on the move around. But they
don't stay there because they don't know what's the state
partner not. They just go wherever they want. They're like
the ultimate anarchists, you know. But so they're moving by
the farm lands in between the farms, using these green
strips that are sometimes only a few yards across. That's
their avenue of travel. They're very, very good at what
they do. They're very good. But you know, they're like
super ninjas. They can move about unseen during the day.
A lot of times they know where they kind of
know what's up with us, so they avoid us. Because
they know far more about us and we know about them,
and they've learned our habits pretty well, they can avoid
us very very efficiently. They don't really need that much
area to hide in, especially if they're not taking permanent
residence there.
Speaker 1: When you've been out doing your research, whether either with
the show or on your personal time, Yeah, it can
get kind of creepy out there in the being in
the woods in the middle of the night. Have you
ever had any really strange experiences while you've been out
big one hunting?
Speaker 4: Well, I'm out bigfoot hunting. I guess that's kind of
a strange experience to begin with. There's been a few
times I've got kind of creeped out or whatever. But
I had one time in particular jumps to mind, I
had one of my best encounters. Actually, Bobo was there
two years running. We ran into these big with the
big foots. I think they might have been juveniles by
the way they're acting at this place that I call
the water Spot, which is very close to Bluff Creek
where the Patterson Gamlin is the most taken the water Spot.
When I first discovered it. The road was blocked off,
so I walked in and I found these really interesting
tree breaks that were off trail. These particular tree breaks
were found at a place along an animal trail where
the animal trail broke a ninety degree angle at four times.
And these tree breaks were were located at the place
where the animal trail changed directions, and in each case,
the tree break was pointed in the direction of travel
if you were traveling from this particular marsh to another
particular marsh, and at the end of the at the
end of the animal trail, I found that for fourteen
and a half inch foot print. It was actually very compelling.
And then when I found that, I was really excited, like,
oh man, this place has got it going on. They
were here not too long ago. I'm going to spend
the night here and as alone, you know, but I'm
going to spend the night here, spend the next couple
days you're looking around. I started going to my car,
and about halfway back to my car, I was god
to set up camp. I got really really spooked, and
I can't explain why. Maybe it's the infrasound thing, maybe
it's I don't know what it was maybe it's just myself,
you know, some sort of a feedback loop in my head,
but I got really spooked and I just I just
couldn't stay there that night. I don't really have a
good explanation for it, but that's the truth. And funny enough,
I did about three miles away, two miles away really,
and spent the night there alone, and I had, you know,
three or four bears around me that night. So I
don't know what really was going on at the water spot,
although the next year it turned out to be one
of the best big foot spots I've ever run across.
So maybe that's all what's.
Speaker 1: Going on now. You actually led into what I was
going to ask you about with that, because do you
what is your opinion on the theory of the whole
infrasound that these animals are able to produce this you know,
inaudible sound that affects you physiologically. I mean, it hits something,
you know, with our perceptions, that causes that nervousness to
make you want to leave.
Speaker 4: I think it's a very interesting possibility. It's not likelihood.
They're certainly large enough to create very very loud sounds,
whether audible or not. And it seems based on the
experiences reported by witnesses and comparing those to the results
of infersonic frequency studies, it seems very very likely that
that's what's going on in the sasquatches. You when you pick
a survey of mammals in general, or actually animals in
general that use infrasound for various purposes, you start finding
that a lot of the things that they use those
four would be useful to sasquatches. Elephants, for example, Elephants
can communicate with each other for you know, five or
ten miles away, using infrasonic frequencies, and they actually feel
those frequencies in the ground with their big feet. You
know't I'm not suggesting that sasquatches do that. But an
interesting component to infrasound is that infrasound is not absorbed
by trees. Whereas you know, throughout their screaming or yelling,
the trees suck up all your noise and they just
absorb the sound and they prohibit your sound from being
broadcast a long distance. However, infrasonic frequencies, the sound waves
are so long and so large that the trees have
no effect on them. So and in fact they travel
through the ground. So in theory, like say sasquatches do
use infrasound, a sasquatch on one side of a mountain
can probably communicate with the sasquatch on the other side
of the mountain because the infrasonic frequencies would actually travel
straight through the ground. And when you when you look
at you look at the naval experiments, like I don't
know what decade it was, but the Navy was doing
experiments on infrasound seeing if it would be a viable
use to see if a viable use of infrasound would
be a non lethal crowd control, And so they were
blasting these poor subjects with like huge doses of infrasound
and crazy volumes that they couldn't hear, just to see
what would happen to them. And you get things like nausa,
the feeling of being watched, things scared, unexplicably, dizziness, this
the whole range of stuff, and a lot of those
particular a lot of those particular symptoms, I guess have
been reported by witnesses of sasquatches, sometimes before the witness
even saw the sasquatch. So I think there's a very
strong correlation, and that's a very strong possibility as sasquatch
is do in fact use in person.
Speaker 1: Your symptoms that you described and carry in I know,
I don't know if you picked up on this, and
Lauren too. With what we do in our research as
paranormal ghost investigators is we measure electromagnetic fields and high
electromagnetic field and high EMF is said to cause almost
all the same symptoms that you just describe. And people
who feel go into a location and they feel like
they're being watched, they feel uncomfortable, tense, like the eyes
are on the back of them. They get that scared
feeling for no reason and they want to leave. And
when we do measurements at the time, we actually find
elevated levels of EMF in the area, which makes me,
I don't know, maybe it's related, maybe not. I would
almost like to see the next time you guys, when
you're out investigating, if you have some type of EMF
meter with you that if anybody he starts experiencing the
the what seems to be infrasound, to start taking EMF readings.
I mean, maybe maybe it'll be a correlation, maybe not,
but I find it very similar enough to be very
fascinated by it.
Speaker 4: Especially I'm sorry, go ahead, I was gonna.
Speaker 5: Say, especially if you're in the middle of the woods
and there's really nothing that's gonna set it off, you know.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, And unfortunately, there's a lot of naturally occurring
infrasound out there too. Everything from volcanism to waves to
wind actually produces infrasonic frequencies. So the few attempts there
has been in actually recording infrasonic sounds out in the woods,
and I've usually come up with nothing because of that.
But interestingly enough, I mean I don't have the equipment,
you know, despite the fact that I'm on TV, I
don't really have a lot of money. But I would
love to participate in a survey of infersonic frequencies in
North America because this has never been done before. Zoologists
who specialize in mammals and whatnot of North America has
never done that. I would love to do that. But
you know, in my research on infrasounds, I read about
this haunting that was I think it was a New England,
and you know, people were seeing apparitions and might not
like they're just kind of seeing fuzzy things. And I'm
not really a ghost guy, by the way, but they
were just seeing like lights and stuff, and they didn't
know what was up. And then somebody came in and
they found that there was there were infrasonic frequencies happening
at the nineteen hrtz range due to the plumbing in
the house, and they fixed the plumbing and the haunting
went away. So, as it turns out, a lot of
those symptoms that people described from infrasound might be actually
might be confused with a haunting because one of the
other very subtle effects of infersonic frequencies can be visual hallucinations.
Speaker 1: What type of equipment do you use to test for
infra That's.
Speaker 5: What I was gonna ask, because I need to get one.
Speaker 4: Oh, let's see, for infersonic frequencies, you need very specially
designed microphones because obviously microphones are made for recording sounds
for people, but you can't hear infrasound, so nobody, very
very few people, i should say, make microphones that are
sensitive enough to pick up frequencies below the twenty hertz range.
Twenty hurts is twenty vibrations per second. Twenty hurts is
generally the sound waves that humans can hear at the
very lowest end of good hearing. But there's a pody
called Earthworks. They make microphones and that's what they use
for elephant studies. They can record sounds down to about
two hurts, which is phenomenally low. Now, then you also
run into problems about the recording device itself, because again,
recording devices aren't really designed to record things that people
cannot hear, you know. But there are some specialty devices
out there, and there's some great websites on people who
study elephants and their use of infrasound, and they have
suggestions for that particular kind of device. And of course
listening to it can also be a problem because you
can't hear it. And their solution too that is either
get some extensive software to analyze it, or you can
speed it out five or ten times and then that's
you know, it's like if you have a ten hurtz
sound wave, if you speed it up three times fast,
then it's a thirty hurts soundwave, but you can hear it.
Speaker 1: Now, what I would be interested in some type of
meter that we could be able to measure the infra
infrasound without actually having to hear it. So yeah, hey,
maybe we need to contact Bill Chappell or somebody to
get on the.
Speaker 5: Building just to see that it's present, you know, not
necessarily have to hear what it's saying, Like, what did
I think? I maybe I missed or you didn't say.
What did they use that they figured it out that
it was the plumbing? What was the device?
Speaker 4: I don't I don't remember. I honestly don't remember. I
was doing this research about two or three years ago,
and that's just one of the tidbits that's stuck in
my brain. You know. As I said earlier before we
went on air, I only had a limited amount a ram.
Speaker 5: To something for us in the paranormal, which is pretty Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, god knows, I in an upgrade.
Speaker 4: You know, Jack don.
Speaker 5: Keekon probably has something that does this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of our investigators who's a mechanical engineer, he's
really big into sound. So we're gonna have to talk
to him about this.
Speaker 2: Didn't he bring something on the USS Salem? Remember the
microphones that he had stuff all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was he's the tech you we need to
have him experience. Yeah, Cliff, we're actually we're coming up
towards the end of the program, and I wanted to
ask you, what is what's coming up next for Finding Bigfoot?
What's the next week's show going to be about? Actually,
it's going to be airing tonight Sunday at ten pm
tonight after our show, so everybody be sure to tune in.
But where are you guys going this week?
Speaker 4: You know, I'm a little confused on that because the
Animal Planet website currently has the next episode to be
the one we did with Todd's standing in outside of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. However,
promos on last week's episode say that the next episode
is Minnesota, so I don't really know what's going to
be on, but I will say that the Minnesota episode
was a lot of fun. We got to drive, well,
I got to drive around this crazy amphibia amphibious swamp
vehicle through these crazy, beautiful, tremendous mass swamps in northern
Minnesota and went to these islands and looked for predators.
Sign It was really exciting and a lot of fun
with fantastic witnesses. And if per chance it is the Calgary,
Alberta episode, and you know, if it's not on side,
it'll be on next week. That's a fantastic episode as well.
The scenery there was breasttaking that is a huge, huge place.
It was very difficult in this particular case to narrow
down where the sasquatches would be because of this on
the dry side the east side of the mountains, and
of course sasquatch sidings are strongly correlated with the amount
of rainfall in a given area, so the dry side
of the mountain would have less sasquatch settings in the
west side of a British Columbia and that was totally true,
But we spoke to the Native American tribes there. They
gave us advice, They gave us a blessed thing in
order to see a big foot as possible. It is
going to be an epic, beautiful, fantastic episode. I would
highly encourage everyone to check it out, mostly because it's
a lot of fun, but definitely, if for no other reasons,
just to see the various habitats that sasquatches can actually inhabit.
Speaker 1: Awesome. And I also wanted to mention the for our
listeners that a very good friend of our program who's
been on the show, Tim Stover Junior, also known as Tcsjr. Bigfoot.
He was going to join us tonight. Unfortunately something came
up and he wasn't able to join us to talk
to Cliff. But he will be appearing in an upcoming
episode of Finding Bigfoot that you all filmed in Ohio.
So we're really looking forward to seeing that because we've
talked to Tim about his experiences before in the past.
He has some incredible information. He's done a lot of
fantastic research that he shares with people through his YouTube
channel and everything. Yeah, go ahead, Cliff.
Speaker 4: We looked into a nineteen ninety three siding and by
doing a recreation, even if he learned something about his
siding that he didn't know before, it's pretty exciting. It's great.
Speaker 1: Well, he's been posting ever since. Actually he shot with
you guys. He's had several incredible experiences out in the
woods capturing more evidence. He found pristine footprint that he
was able to cast. He caught a strange eyeshine one night.
And the odd thing about this video is there were
two creatures standing about eight feet tall watching him from
the woods, and he had his thermal camera and when
he pointed the thermal in the woods, no heat signature whatsoever.
But yet the camera you could see the eyes blink
and move, a head's turned. And then he went back
the next day and he in broad daylight to reshoot
the area. There is absolutely nothing reflective. There, no houses
with lights, no cars. It was a really odd, strange experience.
Now I'm not going to say it's paranormal or one
hundred percent it was Bigfoot, but he's been capturing a
lot of very fascinating things, and I really encourage people
to visit his channel on YouTube at tcsj R Bigfoot
and Cliff. It has been fantastic having you on the
show tonight. I really enjoy talking to you. I feel
we could easily go another hour. You're a lot of
free to talk to. I wish I was a kid
taking you're a elementary school class.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much for having me. I do
appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks again, and thank you everybody again for tuning
in to another episode here of Unknown Origins Radio, where
you can hear us every Sunday evening at eight pm
Eastern Standard Time here on the Decadence Radio Network, and
we sign off with our motivational quote of the week.
You can't always control who walks into your life, but
you can control which window you throw them out of.
Have a great night, everybody,