Speaker 1: What is a fellas it cost? I'm Dan for Valley.
The twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA Season look
Ahead train continues to roll along. We're onto the Orlando Magic.
I have the distinct pleasure of being joined by a
first time guest. They don't know what they're in for now,
so they'll they'll have to reconcile that later. But I
am joined by Philip Rossman Reich. He is He hosts
the Lockdown Magic podcast break podcast go check it out,
and he is the senior writer at Orlando Magic Daily.
You can find the links to his work and his
social media profiles will be in the podcast and YouTube description. Philip,
thank you so much for joining me. Apologies in advance.
This is your first time. You don't know what you're
in for, but how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am doing good.
Speaker 3: It is it is an It is my honor to
be on the hardwoodknockx podcast.
Speaker 2: Love love the love the work that you guys do.
Speaker 3: I do listen occasionally, have like twenty million podcasts that
I there so working, but.
Speaker 1: There's so much, so many guys out there.
Speaker 2: But I do appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3: Is you you try you hit the whole league, and
that's not always the case in national podcasts. So definitely, definitely, definitely,
very honored to be on the show.
Speaker 1: And with that, we'll get into why Palo Bankara will
request the trade from the Magic within the next two
that's what we're going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how this goes, probably to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot I needed to be better at naming
bigger markets man this team. They're so fascinating, But I
think we have to start with the basic question. Is
everyone kind of recognized that this was the off season,
if not the last off season for the Magic to
go after it on the trade market. They did. They
get Desmond Bain in a move I certainly just did
not see coming. What do you make of just kind
of their off season in their totality the Palo extensions
in there they get tyas Jones, but mainly you go out,
you get Desmond Bayin. How do you feel about identifying
him as that guy? And then the price paid to
bring him in?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's very clear that he The
first thing is the Magic believe that Paalo bank Caro
and Franz Wagner are players that you can build a
championship team around. Now, whether that is a good bet
or a bad bet, I'm sure there's billions of ways
to debate that, but the first step to winning a
championship is saying, like, these are our guys, we need
to maximize them as much as possible.
Speaker 2: And with the way that.
Speaker 3: Salaries are structured, the way that the collective bar agreement is,
this had to be the summer that the Magic made
an aggressive move. You know, they kind of they went
forward a little bit last summer when they had their
kind of last bite at free agency, their last opportunity
to spend money in free agency before the Caps started
to get to them, and it didn't work out. Look,
Kntavio Scolopope had a really poor season. Like I think
if we would have done this podcast last year, you
would have said something very very similar, saying like, oh,
the Magic pushed some chips in, they got some skin
in the game. Now they went out and got this
great veteran, this champion hets.
Speaker 1: Because we were doing Bleacher Reports Live Free Agency show
at the time, they were like the first team to
make a move with KCP and all Grant and I
could talk about was this works and it's clearly not
going to be the only major move that they make,
like they're really going in this offseason, they were a tease, They.
Speaker 3: Were a little bit of teas and look, Jeff, Jeff
Wellman is very much a fan of continuity. Believes that,
you know, like they I mean, look, they won forty
seven games in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: They they made they they made.
Speaker 3: Some major strides and took some major steps and believed
that they had another leap in them just based off
of how young they are and they're still a very
very young team. Obviously things didn't work out. Why they
didn't work out, I can't tell you. Injuries played a
part of that obviously. Just Katavi's Gullupope was probably the
wrong kind of shooter, just not enough of a volume
shooter for who the Magic are. And again, you just
had a bad year, like what you what are you
gonna do?
Speaker 1: They didn't have that probably didn't Yeah, that they were.
Speaker 2: Lebron that doesn't that doesn't help.
Speaker 3: But like, look, Katavi's Gullupope had his worst three point
shooting year since I think twenty sixteen, back when he's
with Detroit. So he's not just a shooter because of
Jokic and Lebron just with the volume that he'soul said,
he shot what five threes per game, and the Magic
play a slow offense anyway, not a very high volume
three point shooting team. Probably not exactly what they were
looking for. And I've I've had this conversation with people,
like I think that he would have found a way
to right the ship, or he would have been fine
if Powow doesn't get hurt five games into the season.
There's there's just a little bit of a baseline that
needed to be established. That like, if Palow gets hurt
in late November early December rather than rather than October thirtieth,
maybe that's established. Maybe that rhythms there, Maybe he understand
understands the role and where his shots are coming from
a little bit better.
Speaker 2: And look he shot or last eighteen games, he shot.
Speaker 3: Forty six forty seven percent from three. So he had
a nice little stretch at the end of the season
helping Magic make the playoffs. But it very much felt
like the Magic needed a different kind of shooter, and
the question I think entering the offseason was whether the
Magic could get that shooter without compromising their defense. And
adding a player who's just such a negative on defense.
You know, a lot of us, a lot of us
had like the low hanging for Anthony Simon's Colin Sexson
were kind of like the two guys if you weren't
going for a star like LaMelo Ball or Tree Young,
which I don't think the Magic were super interested in.
But like Andrey Simons not has never been asked to
defend in his life, in his pro basketball life, Like
I'm like, go offense to the Portland Trailblazers, like not
exactly a sterling defense, defensive defensive environment. Going after Desmond
being just felt like it was the perfect cultural fit.
And so the Magic just kind of back to the
original point. Then the Magic believe that Palo and Franz
are two stars they can build their team around. Knowing
that Franz's extension kicks in this year, Palo would get
his extension. Everyone knew it would be back is just
to the degree of what Max would kick it next year.
They knew they'd be a second Apron team next year.
And I don't think people understand how expensive this Magic
team is going to be. In the twenty twenty seventh season,
they had to push their chips in. Now they had
if they were going to go for broke, if they
were going to the championship team, they had to do
it this summer. And so like the cost is big
if it doesn't work out for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: Look, Palo and Franz are good enough.
Speaker 3: The Magic should be in the playoffs every year regardless,
as long as they're healthy. They had to push their
chips in and they had to go for it. And
I think again, Desmond bin is a really good cultural fit.
Like he may not be an all defensive team level player,
but he's gonna hold.
Speaker 2: His own and compete on defense. And he is a
different kind of shooter.
Speaker 3: He's gonna take seven eight threes per game, He's gonna
be able to create a little bit off the drible.
He can do more than just be a three point shooter,
which I think was ultimately what Continus called what Pope's
problem was is that he's just a spot up shooter,
and if the spot up shots aren't going down, it's
just like, well, what do you do with him? Desmond
Bain is gonna find other ways to score, and I
think that is what the Magic we're looking for to
try and unlock this offense, which is very clearly like
the big missing ingredient for this team.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I think though his shooting does get most of the
attentions particalarly pull up three point shooting, and it will
be huge for this team. But is there something else
about him that you think maybe's flying under the radar
that I know you mentioned already sort of the ball
handling with him, But is there anything else about his
fit with Orlando that people should be clocking more so
than just this guy's gonna get up threes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the fact that he's averaged
five assists per game in the last two seasons is
a big, big deal. You know, if you ask most people,
they would say the Magic's biggest need.
Speaker 2: Is a point guard.
Speaker 3: And the Magic obviously you have not addressed the point
guard position. They're still going to kind of go into
the season with this I'm calling it a point guard.
They're moneyballing the point guard position between Desmond Bine, Jalen Suggs,
Pallo Bangkara, Franz Wagner. They can create a point guard
in the aggregate, and I think that's the idea of
what they're trying to do. So you add in a
player like Desmond Baine, who when John Morant was out
last year, took on a lot more that playmaking responsibility
can keep the ball moving. It isn't just going to
stop in his hands. I think that's a big thing
because the Magic have been kind of a low pass
team if you just look at like total number of passes.
They play a slow pace anyway, but yeah, they're they
can evolve a little bit into an ISO team. So
having another guy that you can kick out to attack
as a secondary creator, you know, initiate.
Speaker 2: Offense with I think that's a big deal.
Speaker 3: And on top of that, like Desmond beans a dog
like he he doesn't back down from anybody like that.
Like I talked, like I mentioned that if it's perfect
perfectly kind of in the culture of the Magic, the Magic,
the Magic, you know, they they're they're the kind of
team that just fouls you and dares the refs to
call everything. They they they don't back down, like Jalen
Suggs is barking at you the entire time.
Speaker 2: Mo wogner Is is a known instigator. Paolo bang Cao
is an underrated jabber during during games, like Franz Wagner
will even talk a little bit like he's he's a
little more quiet, but like when he gets into it,
he can He'll talk on the court like Desmond bans,
Desmond bands. Just gonna fit that perfectly. The Magic are
going to.
Speaker 3: Be extremely annoying to play, especially if they're beating you,
because they're they're gonna be talking a lot on the floor.
Speaker 1: Actually, I was doing the Cavs look Ahead with Justin
Rohan of the Chase Down podcast, and we were talking
about the Magic as the team that you always, no
matter the outcome, win or lose, you're always going to
feel playing them, And I guess you're always going to
hear while you're playing them.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: As well, what you mention is interesting about the ball
handling element the assists from Desmond Vane. If you look
at what I think we all assume is going to
be their starting lineup, they kind of just have five
guys that can all do stuff with the ball. Now,
is there any chance that we see Jamal Mosley break
out some funky stuff? I don't know. If it's more
like is it guard screening for guards? It Franz Wagner
baby screening? Is there anything you want to see or
that you think that we might see differently from this
team than in years past.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think this is something they've always
been toying around with. Like the Magic are very much
a team that's like if they sense that you're switching
and your defensive strategy against them is to switch, they're
going to pick out the guy they want guarding Palo
and they'll bring Jalen Stuggs over and sit and have
him set a screen for Palo or you know, they
don't run a lot of Palo frond stuff together. But
you know we're seeing you know, as we're recording this,
your basket hasn't started, but we're seeing with with Germany,
they're experimenting a lot more with Franz as a screener
and diving to the basket a little bit more and
setting up on post ups a little bit more.
Speaker 2: And just for the.
Speaker 3: Record, Magic assistant coach Rady Gregory is one of the
assistant coaches for the German national team. They always the
Magic have a lot of staff with the German national team.
It's that I don't think this is you know, Alex
Mumbrow is gonna do what Alex Mumbrow does. He's a
he's a decorated coach in EuroLeague that I don't think
any of this is happening in isolation. So I do
think we'll start to see them use frowns in different ways.
I'm sure we'll talk about the shooting. So that's part
of the reason why they have to do that. Yeah,
it's it's not good, but it's better. But it's not good.
Speaker 2: We'll we'll.
Speaker 3: I think we'll see them use frowns in different ways.
I think we'll see them use inverted pick and rolls.
I know Jamal Moseley hates being asked about those. It
wouldn't shock me if we see some more lineups about
Jonathan Isaac with Jonathan Isaac at center, even though he
kind of struggled in that role last year a little bit.
There's certainly the possibility to go with a kind of
we're all shooting lineup, or you know, a super big
lineup with Palo and Frond sliding to the guard spots
or or Palo sliding to the center spots. So there's
a lot of potential to be creative with this roster.
I think the struggle with being creative was just the
Magic didn't have enough shooting to make things functional, and
so you couldn't experiment with Jonathan Isaac at center or
Jonathan Isaac in different places because you didn't have enough
shooting to give the space for that to work. You
kind of you needed Jonathaniaac.
Speaker 2: To be a spacer, which he obviously wasn't.
Speaker 3: But you know, hopefully with some better shooting and some
more versatile offensive pieces, they can begin to like test
some of the limits of what they can do off
do with these lineups and you know, create some advantages
that way.
Speaker 1: But do you have any like question marks or concerns
about how they might integrate Bane or is this a
no notes type of acquisition?
Speaker 3: I mean it, there's look so little scarred that Katavio
Scowopope was so bad. Like you shot what thirty two
percent last year? The Blazers are the thirty four percent
for three. The Blazers are the team where it seems
like players go there and shoot better from three, or
like the Magic the team that players go there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Shoot, I haven't given that enough thought to make the analogy.
Speaker 3: But the Magic, the Magic, the Magic Havevint had an
offense outside the bottom ten in the League since Dwight
and twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: That's a long time.
Speaker 3: It's a long time. I've I've watched a lot of
bad offense.
Speaker 2: You know. The joke.
Speaker 3: The joke was when after Game three, were sitting in
the media room and all the Celtics writers were like, man,
that game was ugly, and me, Jason Beattie of the
Orlando Sentinel, Mason Williams, who was with Magic on this side,
we all kind of perked up and we're like, that's
that's normal. We can name like four or five games
that are we can we started like rattling off like six, seven,
eighteens that were just that were just like so much
worse than this. It's just like, this is this is
how they play, this is how they have to do it.
Speaker 2: My concern is still that.
Speaker 3: The issue, Yeah, the issue is a little bit the
way that Paolo likes to play, where they're just a
slow down team. They don't they don't play fast enough
to kind of take advantage of it or and look,
I know we'll get into some of the Palo stuff here,
but I think some of the issue with Palo is
he's still a young player learning when to speed the
game up.
Speaker 2: And when to slow it down.
Speaker 3: And his default and is his preference, I think, is
to play this kind of you know, not ugly, but
this like very two thousand style ISO game where he's
going to kind of stop and survey the defense and
jab step and and you know, do his moves to
get to his spots. And I think that does take
guys out of rhythm a little bit. The Magic, the
Magic struggled so much to create fast break opportunities, and
they're still so young, so I think some of these are.
Speaker 2: Just young team mistakes.
Speaker 3: It's the concern that I still have is just that
the Magic just don't move the ball enough. They're just
they're not that they're selfish or guys don't want to
pass the ball, but everything is just maybe a step
slower than it needs to be to play at the
level that that this group clearly wants to play at.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 3: Just these little things that knock you a little bit
off rhythm. That still concerns me a little bit that
the Magic won't take full advance. I think they'll be better,
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Desmond Bain is
gonna suddenly shoot like thirty two percent liked cac F did.
But my concern is that they won't take as full
advantage of this opportunity. And some of it is just
some of it might be like, yeah, the stars aren't
aren't compatible, or the stars have have a ceiling on them,
which I which you know, I think is definitely a thing.
Speaker 1: So when you mentioned the transition stuff, because this is
actually something that's been like a like, we've nitpicked on
this podcast a bunch of times, and I understand the
Palo of it all, but like, even when he's off
the floor, it's not like they're blitzing these teams after
live rebounds or even when they're forcing turnovers. Is that
just like a philosophical thing? Is it a personnel issue
that you know extends past Palo. I look at this
team and even before they had Desmond Baine, but now
that they do, I'm like, no, Like you can run
off live balls for sure, if and even Paalo is
just grab and go, But like you said, his proclivity
is that I want to slow things down and break
down against that defense as sure, But I think I've
been more like even the numbers were kind of all
like I had Franz and I'm not I'm a Franz
Wagner skeptic, full disclosure, But he made he was fourth
on my MVP ballot, and then he got injured like
five games later or something like that earlier this season. Yeah,
but like it even felt like there was they were
leaving like low hanging fruit on the tree with with
stuff like that when Palo's off the flour or injured too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I don't think I don't think that's wrong
at all. I mean, typically when you think of young teams,
you think of teams that just want to go get
out and run, use their speed, use their athleticism, and
get as many easy points as there as possible. And
the Magic just don't do that, or they don't do
it consistently enough. Obviously you get a few here and
there throughout the course of a game, but there's definitely
I think a I think there's just a lot of.
Speaker 2: Youthful mistakes like it.
Speaker 3: Like they you know, they turned the ball over a
lot on fast breaks, they make the wrong read, or
they're a little laid on a read.
Speaker 2: Perhaps in transition.
Speaker 3: Some of it is Jalen Suggs is one of the
few guys that really likes to push the tempo, oh yeah,
and him being out for a good chunk of the
season or him you know, him having to be the
lead guy for a good chunk of the season probably
slowed the team down a lot too.
Speaker 2: And so that's I think part of it. And you know,
well I am.
Speaker 3: I am optimistic that they'll be able to kind of
work without a point guard. I think there are intangible
things that come from a point guard, from just knowing
how to manage a game, how to you know, when
to push the tempo, where to get the ball, where
to be, how to fill lanes, how to like kind
of put guys in the right spot. And the Magic
just don't have that, or they they haven't really had that,
you know, Like Markel Foltz was solid for what he was,
but you know, he's a limited player, you know, ty
I think Tis Jones being on the floor is going
to help this team a bunch and how he works
and might tell the Magic like, hey, we might actually
need a point guard here. You know, I don't think
Tys Jones is a starting point guard, you know, I
think we saw that experiment play out in Phoenix. Although
Orlando's much or defensive atmosphere and environment for him, but
he's got limitations. I wouldn't want him starting, especially if
you're trying to win a championship. But I think that
there are still you know, there's there's some maturity things.
There's just some like experience being in these situations, you know,
some instinct things, and again some personnel things that I
think keep the Magic again.
Speaker 2: This this is These are easy points. These are easy
ways to score.
Speaker 3: They don't have the great three point shooting to like
kind of spread the floor and twist defences around in transition.
Everyone just starts walling the paint and says, okay, try
and you know they only have two guys going up
against these three. But none of your guys were worried
about it the three point line or if that, if
they take a three, let's see you make some before
we go out and there and guard it. So it's
all conn it's all connected. A lot of it just
goes back to the shooting being so bad. But you know,
I think I think there are definitely things the Magic
need to do to increase their transition and play faster.
Speaker 1: Unless Phoenix totally corrupted, Tias Jones like he should at
least help with some of the game management perspective, like
even in half court situations for them, Yeah, do you
think that addition is getting enough attention or is it
getting the proper amount of attention because one of another
sticking point with what it seems like with Jamal Mosley
is just if you're not like a super plus on defense,
he doesn't really want to give you a chance. And
I'm not sure who needs to hear this, but like
Tias Jones is not a super positive impact defender.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I don't think people are giving it
the full attention. Maybe it deserves, but at the same time,
it also feels like a very short term move. Because
he's signed a one year deal, it feels like it's
more stable. They're they're more using him to stabilize the
bench group and and you know, who knows what that
bench group is going to be. Like I'm I'm a
you know, like, if there's one complaint I have about
Jamal Mosley and his rotations, he is very insistent on
a ten man rotation that does sometimes include an all
bench lineup. And like we're at the point where personally,
I think the Magic this year probably need to go
nine man. One of their four like Suggs, Bain, Franz Pallo.
One of those four need to be on the floor
at all times.
Speaker 2: He can like what he probably.
Speaker 3: Should be too by the playoffs, it should be too.
But they, I mean, they need to figure out what
the right pairings between those those four are. But yeah,
like like two of those four should probably be for
big games, especially two of the four should be on
the floor at all times. So you know, I think
that Taias is there to kind of stabilize things. Maybe
maybe be uh you know, take Anthony Black under his
wing to try and help him get a little bit
better as a point guard. But I do think that's
gonna be stabilizing. Like again, like he's an excellent three
point shooter. Unless something's in the water here in Orlando
that keeps people from shooting. There's there there's that's gonna
help on its own that he is an elite catch
and shoot three point shooter, like what forty forty three,
forty four percent on like that last year even in Phoenix,
like they have the defense around him, Like he's gonna
be in lineups where Anthony Black is next to him,
where Jalen Suggs is next to him, or Jonathan Isaac's
behind him, Yogabtadz is behind him, Like he'll be in
lineups where they can cover for his defense. And he's
not starting, He's not playing thirty minutes a game, so
they can probably do well in those minutes, but I
think the stabilization that he'll bring is gonna be really poor.
Speaker 1: The Magic have shown they have the stomach for patients
based on how long they waited to even go in
on a move like Desmond Bane. But I think what's
interesting about their situation now is they have other moves
they could make. But like you've changed like your personnel
to the extent that you would want to change it.
And so do you view this as sort of a
I don't like boiling it down to make or break,
but like this is a telltale year for Jamal Mosley, Right, Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 3: And And you know, I'm a big believer that coaches
have roles the same way players do. Some coaches are
the rebuild coach that kind of build the foundations for
everything and gets you to the playoffs. Some coaches are
I'm gonna you know, Steve Goifford was this way he
gets you into the playoffs. He's not getting you to
the next round or the round after like he built like,
but like Steve like everywhere. Like the years in Charlotte,
those Starlett teams outplayed their their talent, the years in Orlando,
those teams outplayed their talent like he gave them the
base to be playoff teams, just not much more. Some
coaches are the guy that gets over the hump to
the championship, and you know, sometimes you don't know who
that coach is until.
Speaker 2: They actually win one.
Speaker 3: This I think is a big year for Jamal Moseley
to show that he's not just the rebuild coach. I
think he's done a really good job obviously building a
culture and having everybody believe and willing to run through
a wall for him. But now comes the pressure of results,
and you know, they it was a miracle they finished
forty one and forty one last year with all the
injuries that they had and the fact that they rallied.
I think they went what was it, They went twelve
and six over their last eighteen games to get to
five hundred and win the when the division win the
seven seed, like that was coming off of a one
in six home stand, to go twelve and six the
rest of the year. I think that was like a
masterful job of like everyone kind of getting a gut
check and going. And I thought he had a good
game playing against the Celtics. It just you know, didn't
have the talent to execute it fully. Because the Celtics
are are a real or were a related team. This
is a big year because now you're a second Apron
team next year. And I'll let you know you're you're
the Magic are paying the tax this season, assuming they
keep their salaries the way they are. The Magic are
paying the tax this season for the first time since
twenty twelve. When Palo's extension kicks in next year, they'll be,
if not in the second Apron, very very close to it.
That that means it's winner bus. That means you are
competing for a championship. And if this team is the
five seed again and loses in the first round, if
they're if they don't like I don't think they have
to win a championship this year, but they clearly need
to be pointing in that direction. And if they're not
pointing in that direction, the acts is gonna fall on
the coach or the pressure is gonna fall on the coach. Now,
obviously it's like depends on what happens and how you
get there. But Jabal Moseley's proven he can build an
elite defense. Now he's got to prove that he can
bring the offense up with it, start winning winning games
in the playoffs and winning playoff series and pointing this
team to competing for the big prize at the end
of the season, because that's what that's what the Devas
family's paying for at this point. And if you're not
putting in that direction, then you probably and the way
the cap is situated, you can't stay in that tax
bracket for very long.
Speaker 1: I have to ask this question. I feel like every season,
what makes Powell Bankro such a divisive player? Is it
just the efficiency? People are looking at the stats and
they say, oh, like blow average or barely average true
shooting percentage or effective field goal percentage or field goal percentage,
And that's just it what makes him so polarizing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's that's a million dollar question, because like
I sit here and I watch him every game, and
I'm just like, this is the exact kind of guy
that the NBA markets like crazy or the NBA should
be marketing like crazy. He scores a lot of points.
He's you know, unique Bill, He's good, he's a good kid.
Speaker 2: Number. On top of all that, he's a matchup nightmare.
Like everyone around the league I think respects him.
Speaker 3: And it just comes down to the Magic aren't on
TV a lot, and so the only way people watch
him is I mean, like I hate to say it,
like it's still that's still a thing. The Magic just
aren't part of the national conversation. And so the people
talking about Pallo are people trying to compare him to
other players or people like just box score watching. And
look the stats. The advanced stats aren't great, the efficiency
isn't great. But I would sit here and say, like, well,
look at the shooting that he has.
Speaker 2: Look at the.
Speaker 3: Fact that I think he was in the top ten
or top fifteen in the league in most double teams
face like he faces a wall of players in front
of him every game. It got to a point last
year that we've danced around this the magic shot like
thirty one point something percent from three last year.
Speaker 1: His teammate got we're in the b Ball Index has
that great tool. We could look at where the teammates
ranked percentile the zero fith percentile of catch and shoot
three point efficiency. That's the type of BAK spacing. Excuse me,
Carol's been working with his entire career basically.
Speaker 3: And and like and like last year it got to
the point where he'd be taking these contested mid range
jumpers and there'd be open players in the opposite corner.
I'd be just like, that shot is probably a better
higher percentage shot by the analytics than than passing to
an open corner three at this point, and so there
there's a like, there's a there's a general lack of trust.
Like like, at a certain point last year, the three
point shooting just became endemic. It just became like, we
don't trust for we're gonna make threes, Like we'll take
them if they're open. But you could see that little
bit of doubt and in some of the players as
they were taking threes. It just it just got to
that point last year and it was just you know,
you can't do very much at that point. This is
a big year for Powell because that yeah, now he
has Desmond Pain, Now he should have a little bit
more spacing. And so you do want to see him
take a little bit of a leap efficiency wise, Like, look,
he's still the thing that most annoys me about the
Palo discussion. People talk about him like he's some twenty
eight year old established veteran and this is as good
as he's going to get. He's still twenty two years old,
you know, like he's entering his I think year twenty
three season, Like he's still going to get a whole
lot better. And now that the Magic have work to
improve their roster, hopefully the idea is that he is
going to make those passes and have the teammates make
shots and be in a better spot to get good looks.
And then it just comes down to his decision making
of when do I pass, When do I shoot?
Speaker 2: When do I go get mine?
Speaker 3: You know, the things that you typically see Star struggle with,
like all of his early all of his like first
three year numbers, you compare him to like Lebron to
Kevin Durant. And I'm not saying he's as good as
those players. Those guys had better numbers through his first
three years, but he's doing all the things that elite
NBA players do early in their career. Now it's just okay,
take that next step to superstartom and you know, do it.
Do it in front of people to kind of change
the narrative about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm almost interested to see, like what
and whether they have enough shooting. I think Jalen Suggs
is kind of key important to this too, is Yeah,
Palo's three point volume. I don't know if it Maybe
it can still climb, but I think it's like kind
of where it's gonna be. But he has like some
of the lowest shot quality metrics around the rim, and
he doesn't finish as well as like he plays with
this like bletic brutality that I think he should just
be able to score well from everywhere, And his finishing
at the rim, even relative to the quality, it's always
just been a little weird. And I'm wondering now, you know,
we talk about having more space for him to operate,
maybe he can get to the mid range those are
higher quality, Like I want to see if he can
get to the basket more, see if he can finish
it more efficient clip there, and that might be where
having a healthy Sugs who had shot the ball really
well in twenty three, twenty four and of course Baine
might help him out a ton too.
Speaker 3: But the biggest, the biggest thing, so like the biggest
thing that I said coming out of Game seven against
the Cavs in twenty twenty four is they just need
to find a way to get Palo and Fronds just
a few easy shots, like like one or two more
catch and shoot threes. Give Palo a shot in the
dunker spot you never see him like get a dump
off to the dunker spot or or or.
Speaker 2: Out for a catch and shoot. Like the Magic just
don't don't have.
Speaker 3: Enough playmakers or creators to take the ball out of
Palow in Franz's hands. Like I like the last two
playoff series. I would literally tell people like these playoff
series have been pallowing Franz banging their head against a wall,
and they put a lot of cracks in those walls.
They're they're good enough to put cracks in the walls,
but they can't break through. They need someone to get
them an easy look here and there. And that's the
difference between a guy, you know, scoring twenty five twenty
five inefficiently and a guy scoring twenty five on pretty
good efficiency is like, oh, he gotta lay up because
Jalen Suggs drove the lane and dumped it off to
him in the dunker spot, or you know, Desmon being
drove and kicked it out to Franz who made a
three for change.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's they did.
Speaker 3: Those easy shots just aren't part of their diets right now,
And I think the hope is that with more creation,
more playmaking, kind of more secondary playmaking, you know, they
get you know, maybe they're shot and they're useduld just
go down a little bit, but they'll get some easy
shots that theoretically means they can make make some make
the same un score the same amount of play points
on fewer field goals.
Speaker 1: Do you think he or not that he would have
any trouble, but do you think there could be an
issue where he has to get used to what it's
like to scale down Like this is someone where basically
two thirds of his two pointers for his career have
gun unassisted, and so putting him in easy spots would
actually be a stark departure from the role he's needed
to operate in for most, if not his entire career.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think there'll be a little bit
of adjustment there, and you know, it'll be curious to
see how the Magic used Desmond being and and how
how much kind of responsibility they give him, because you know,
I think the whole idea like it isn't It isn't
like adding LaMelo ball or Trey Young, which is like
kind of the big move that you know, all the
that everyone was like, oh, the Magic should be in
on Trey Young. If the Hawks are going trade Trey Young,
Magic go after him, and I'd be like, no, because
that takes the ball out of Poalo's hands. I don't
think they want to do that, Like they still want
Pollo as the primary initiator and creator. But whenever you
add a new player that's going to take shots and
the ball in his hands a little bit, you're gonna
have to adjust a little bit. You're gonna have to
get a little bit creative and get used to doing
something different. And so I think there will be a
little bit of an adjustment on that front. But at
the end of the day, like if you find a
way to keep winning, if you find a way to
kind of make those pieces fit, then you're happy to
make the sacrifice. Like I think they're like Poalow gets
compared to Carmelo Anthony a lot, and I think a
lot of the discots, you know, Carmelo is still a
much better player.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm not saying.
Speaker 1: Palo is actually already a much better defender than Camel Anthony.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I probably agree with that.
Speaker 3: And there are things about Palo's defense that he needs
to keep getting better at, but he's he's engaged on
that end. Like that's I still think that's one of
the miracles of Jamal Boseley is he's really taught Paalo
at a young age to care about defense, even if
there's still things he can get better at. But like
like Camel, like kind of like Carmelo Anthony, like he
has to learn, he has to kind of learn when
to assert himself, when when to kind of take a
step back.
Speaker 2: And like I think is a willing passer.
Speaker 3: Like I don't think he's some selfish player who just
wants to chuck shots and put up numbers, like he's
still average like five, you know, five almost six assists
per game last year. I think he's going to look,
he's going to want to pass the ball. He is
a willing passer. He just hasn't had the teammates that
he trusts to do that. And at the end of
the day, like the magic's best bet was Pallo ducking
his head, get into the foul line, get into the
basket and trying to make something happen, to make the
defense collapse around him.
Speaker 1: All Right, so we've reached the point of I have
to ask you about where are you at with Frod
Vagner and hashtag.
Speaker 2: Jump shot watch. We're recording this.
Speaker 3: I don't know when this is coming out, so we're
I'm gonna date my date of timestamp this recording this
on August twenty first, in the evening. If you had
asked me yesterday, I would have been like, it's it's
getting better. I'm not worried yet, I'm officially and I'm
a little bit concerned mode. He's gone three for twenty
four on threes for the German national team in five
exhibition games. He was zero for six against Spain. Uh
the day that we're recording this, on August twenty first,
the hitch is gone. Like that's that's the best news.
It's it's not pretty yet. The results just starn't there,
and it's no one has any answers for why, Like
he does everything else well, he's shooting well from mid range,
like he's able still able to get to the basket.
Like his free throw shooting has been weird this summer,
but he's an eighty plus percent free throw shooter.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's super concerned. No one knows.
Speaker 3: Why the three point SHOT's gone as wayward as it has.
It's It was obviously wayward before the oblique injury. The
oblique injury made it worse. He shot significantly worse after
his injury, that included the little hitch that.
Speaker 2: A lot of us noticed.
Speaker 3: It's I I am officially in concerned. I want I
want to wait and see what it looks like in
real games and in the EuroBasket games. And on top
of that, like context for EuroBasket, they play, they're very
much like the Magic It's Dennis shooter, Franz Wagner and
nobody else on the ball, and.
Speaker 2: They're shooting extremely poorly.
Speaker 3: That that team is usually a pretty good shooting team,
but Maldolow's hurt, like they've all all their shooters are
struggling just so far in in the exhibition games. So
maybe that'll change. When they get to get to Finland
and start the games for real. He's still scoring a
lot of points. He's still gonna get you the points,
but the shot is still very, very concerning, and I
think it's it's to a point where it's just like, okay,
like what's up or stop shooting three s frons Like
it's that's just not a good shot for you anymore.
Speaker 1: So much of the focus is paid to the three
point percentage. It's kind of a testament to how good
he is already without having that in his arsenal basically
for like what two and a half of his career
three thir like seventy five percent of his career. What
else do people need to zero in on about Franz Vogner,
Whether it's some of the secondary passing, some of the defense,
somebody he plays with like this live dribble, fuck you
like a little bit when he gets into the lane.
There's there's a lot of stuff about his game, as
even someone who like I said, as a Frozvagner skeptic
that I think it's easy to appreciate when you watch him.
What what should people be looking at aside from the
three point shooting? With him.
Speaker 3: I mean his his footwork is incredible, Like when he
is in the open floor going downhill, he he probably
euro steps as well as Dwayne Wader monugenobily does like it.
Like his his euro step in his ability to weave
his way through the defenses without without dribbling rafter he
picks up his dribble is incredible, Like he'll do this
thing where he'll kind of take it like if a
guy is like setting up to take a charge instead
of eurostepping like past him, he'll step to the side
and just shoot a floater over them. Like his his
footwork on the move is just incredible, and like that's obviously,
like the big ticket with him is if he is
going toward the basket with the head of steam, like
he can stop on a dime, He can change directions
on a dime like he like there's just not there's
nothing you can do. Like the whole point of a
defense against Franz is keep him on the perimeter, keep
him from picking up that like extra gear going downhill,
because you know, once once he's once he has the
basket in his view and a little bit of speed
behind him, it's it's over. Like he's gonna figure out
a way to score on you or make the right
play on you. I am also convinced that he's going
to be an all defensive, all defense. He has all
defensive team capabilities. I don't know if you'll ever get there,
because I think Jalen Suggs will take all the attention
on this team. But I think he is he He
doesn't look as strong as he is, but he will
take contact and kind of stonewall guys off the dribble,
and I think and he can defend multiple positions, like
he can defend smaller guys as much as he can
defend bigger guys. So I everything about Franz Vogner's game
is awesome except the three point shooting, and that's obviously
so important, especially on a team that doesn't shoot. I
think he still led the team in three point attempts
per game last year. Is that he shoots like five
six threes a game, and so it's just like, if
he can you figure out how to even shoot like
thirty three percent, go two for six on threes every night,
like that would be such a huge boost to his
game and such a huge boost to the magic. But
everything else about his game is just is just it's
delightful to watch, and it's just sometimes I wonder if
Franz understands how good he is, because I feel like
his personality and that's why I think him and Poalo
works so well together. Honestly, his personality, I think is
to defer to people like I think he. I think
he prefers being the beat, the Scotti to Pallo's Jordan.
If that comparison makes sense.
Speaker 1: How do you read it? I didn't throw those in
the outline I sent to you. But what do you
make of Like there's been people I don't say they
try to pit them against one another, but you look
at some of the line up data and it's gonna
show like, oh, the offense is just way better the
Magic way better when Franz plays without Polo. I think
that there's just a lot of context missing from that. Mostly, Yeah,
what's the type of lineups they're going up against? Is
that an actual conversation at all?
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a conversation among among like Magic fans,
because like, look, at the end of the day, if
you want to win a championship, you need multiple top
twenty players like you need as many good players.
Speaker 2: As you as you can get.
Speaker 3: So it shouldn't it shouldn't ever be either or it's both,
and like the Magic or not, we're not talking about
the Magic as a potential Eastern Conference contender this year
if not for both Franz and Palo, or for or
both Palo and Franz. Franz is typically the first guy
that comes out of the lineup when the when the
Magic break their lineup, he plays a lot with that bench.
Speaker 2: Group, and the Magic have typically had a very strong bench.
Speaker 3: You know, when Movager is healthy, Gogobaitadze, Jonathan Isaac's an
excellent defender, they'd have Cole Anthony, they have a they've
typically had over the last two years. So maybe not typically,
but over the last two years they've had a very
strong bench, and Franz is the anchor of those bench
groups allows him to flourish against weaker defenders. I think
I think that there is probably a little bit of
you know, not I don't say lack of respect for Franz,
but just Franz doesn't I think garner the same kind
of respect from defenses that Palo does, or the same
way to defend him that Palo does, because just Palo
is just a tank. Like you have to throw as
many guys as you can at him to try and
slow him down. But I think that context matters. But like, look,
Palo is still taking you know Paalo. I think Franz
is more of the analytics starling.
Speaker 2: You know he is.
Speaker 3: He is essentially only taking layups and threes. He added
some mid range shots this year, it's still like below fifty,
it's still like fewer than fifty for the entire season.
He's pretty good at making them. Like, I think there's
a case to be made that Frauan should be looking
for more mid rangehots, especially if the three is not
going to fall, because he hits the mid range at
a pretty high clip, which makes a three point shooting
even more confusing.
Speaker 2: Polo Paalo takes a lot.
Speaker 3: I think Palo tends to take the superstar shots or
the shots a star thinks that a superstar takes, and
those are obviously low percentage shots, whereas Franz I think
very rarely settles for those kinds of shots, like he's
he's he's very much like a again like rim or
three pointer, like those those are really the big areas
that that he tends to shoot and score, and so
I think that's all part of it. And again it's
just the lineups are going up against. Palow's typically going
up against UH starters for the most most part. When
he's in, Franz gets to eat a healthy bit of
diet against against reserves.
Speaker 1: I mean, when they're on the court together, Palo's going
to draw not only more attention but the presumably it
depends on the size of the other team's like best defender.
But you're gonna face those toughest matchups at that end too. Yes,
So I'm a big Jalen Suggs believer on offense, a
truther maybe sometimes spreading disinformation about it on borderline. I
don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm I'm your propaganda minister.
Speaker 1: Then the more I think about this team, I'm not.
I don't want to underrate the impact that Tias Jones
and Desmond Bank can have on the offense. But all right,
you've added two guys like Desmond Bain is the caps
lock shooter. Tias Jones can shoot, but we don't know
how much he's gonna play. And the more I thought
about it, just like they need Jalen Suggs to be
really really good on offense. And I'm not just talking
about the three point shooting, which I think I don't
want to say like it's guaranteed, but I think he's
shown enough on the higher quality looks the past two years,
even before he was injured this season, that I'm comfortable
with it. But you mentioned the transition stuff before, like
it really felt like something changed in twenty twenty four
a little bit where he was helping them with that.
But then there's also just the decision making on drives
of someone who could do that. And so the more
I think about this team, like he feels I know
he's he's paid pretty well now, but he just feels
like this massive swing piece for how good they could
be on the side of the floor they've struggled most.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm with you there one hundred percent. You know,
I think you look at his full season numbers last
year and they don't look great, Like I think he
shot ended up shooting like thirty one percent from three
or something like that. But if you look at his
first five games before Paolo gets hurt, and so small
small sample size here, So don't you know, like I
fully acknowledge that he shot I think forty six or
forty seven percent on catch and shoot threes on like
six or seven attempts per game in those first five games.
So again small, small, small sample, but to me, that
was a continuation of what he did in twenty twenty four,
where he shot forty two percent on like five or
six catch and shoot threes. And so if you're like thinking, like, oh,
the magically add at Desmond Bane as a shooter, I
think moving. I think one of the problems the Magic
have had in Jalen Suck's career is like they didn't
know what his ideal offensive role was.
Speaker 2: Obviously, you draft.
Speaker 3: Him fifth, you think he's going to be your number
one guy. Like when the Magic, you know, coming out Againstzaga,
everyone thought this is a future like on ball, you know,
star type player and the Magic obviously in a rebuild moment,
they just gave him the ball and said go do
your thing. And so he was I think a little
overwhelmed being the lead guy, you know, having to handle
the ball, handle the ball as the primary creator, primary playmaker,
you know, just kind of recklessly going to the basket
like he's he's a maniac on the floor on both ends.
Speaker 2: That might be why he gets injured a lot. But
he's all effort.
Speaker 3: He's one hundred and ten percent and even that probably
isn't enough to describe his effort. And so I think
what I'm most interested in is, yes, the Magic want
him to be a secondary creator and get out on
the break and kind of lead them that way, but
they don't need him to do that as much like
he is the fourth option on offense. Like Desmond bin Is,
you know, twenty point per game score, a pretty established guy,
he's theoretically the third option on offense. I'm really interested
to see what Jalen Suggs does when he is not
maybe not strictly a three and D type guy, but
like the main diet of his offense are these catch
and shoot threes that over the last two you know,
when the team has been healthy over the last two seasons,
he's shown he's gonna knock them down at decent volume.
And so I think I think the Suggs development is
more they're evolving him into a place where like, yes,
he can hack off the dribble and do all these things,
but he doesn't have to. His his primary responsibility on
offense is to space the floor and be a three
point threat and when the time comes when the closeout
comes to attack it, and then he'll get some of
those reps obviously, like coming off the bench or with
whatever group season when when the lineups broke, when the
lineup's broken up. But if the majority of his minutes
are alongside Palo, Franz and Baine or you know, with
even two of those, even two of those guys, he's
going to be in a space where he's going to
get better quality looks and the defense is going to
be shifted away from him where maybe he can get
better looks at the rim where he you know, he
was decent in twenty twenty four, like last year, just
you know, he had to do so much last year,
like once once Palo went out, his role changed, Once
Franz went out, his role change, and he just isn't
that player.
Speaker 2: He isn't a primary option guy, but.
Speaker 3: As a fourth option guy who's the like the Magic
describe him as the head of the snake on their defense,
the guy that like really gives them energy on defense.
Like I think that's that's gonna unlock him in a
way that we haven't seen him unlocked because the magic,
the Magic needed too much for him or more than
he could give them on a winning team. Now, I
feel like he's in a role that is gonna really
emphasize his strengths and maybe cover up some of his
weaknesses a little bit on offense.
Speaker 1: This isn't a perfect comp because the team context is
so different in their different players, but this feels like
the Derek White going to Boston type bump season for
Jalen Suggs offensively is like what I could almost see
it being, and I probably would even consider predicting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something to that effect.
Speaker 3: Uh I think, I think that's a fair way to describe,
you know, what we could see from from Sugs. Like
I'm I'm like, I'm glad that I'm not the I'm
not the only person that is like looking at Suggs's
numbers and being like this, there's something here, There's there's
there's something that could develop and like, look at the
end of the day, like Suggs has to stay healthy
and that's the biggest thing he hasn't proven in his career,
Like he's been mostly injured for three of his four seasons,
and uh, I think the magic and this is not
their fault, but I think the Magic played off the
injury that he had as not as serious as it is,
at least publicly to the public. Like the troclia injury
is a very weird, little weird injury that he had,
the surgery that he had to repair, it is not
a small injury. He had a what's called a mosaic plasty,
which is like a it's not reconstructive, but they like
take they like take they take like muscle or cartilage,
and they like they literally like lay it down as
a mosaic to try and strengthen that knee. And so there,
I think there were some bigger concerns with that injury,
and it wasn't as like my like it's Initially they
made it sound like, oh, he's just getting a scope.
And I know, like every surgery, surgery, surgery, no matter what,
but a scope is as basic as a surgery gets
for a knee. This was not that, Like he had
a pretty involved surgery. It sounds like he's gonna be
fine for training camp. You know, he's on the court.
They've shown photos of him working out on the court.
I don't know if he's playing or doing contact, But
it it that that the injury stuff is still the
biggest concern with him because he's had one healthy season
in four and it was a good season. You know,
Magic benefited a lot from it, but he's he's got
to prove that he can stay healthy.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a chance they were just excited
it wasn't an oblique injury last year and.
Speaker 3: So they hundred percent one hundred percent. I think anytime
anybody twists, they hold their breath a little bit.
Speaker 1: Can we run through some of like the younger guys
on this team and just get either of your early impressions,
role expectations, what you'll be watching for whatever next season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you mentioned like Jalen Suggs is a
big swing guy. I think Anthony Black's a huge swing
guy for this team, and and it's someone that if
the Magic are gonna pet are going to compete for
a championship, Like I'm pretty certain what the magicer could
get from their starters. The bench concerns me a little
bit just because there is a lot of inexperience and
not a lot of offense. Like Tyas Jones is a
solid offensive player. Vagner, we're probably not gonna see him
till December coming back from the ACL and and that
and then that instance, like who knows how ready he's
gonna be. I think the magic, the Magic need to
figure out what Anthony Black is first and foremost, Like
obviously he's I think a really strong defender offensively, no
clue what he is, you know, Like, uh, the favorite
stat that I have with him is like in wins,
he averages like ten points in the thirty nine and
thirty nine wins. Last year he averaged ten points per
game and shot forty one percent from three.
Speaker 2: In thirty nine.
Speaker 3: Losses, he averaged like eight points per game and shot
twenty eight twenty nine percent from three. And so it's
like it's like like that's not like that's correlation, not causation,
but it it like kind of shows you the swing,
the wild swings in his game and and how good
he how good he can be, and how good the
Magic can be when he's that good, and how much
he can struggle, and how bad the Magic were when
he struggled. And obviously think the magic on him a
little bit more last year, they don't really know if
he's a point guard, you know, they don't really know
how to.
Speaker 2: Use him offensively.
Speaker 3: He fits their their identity defensively, but he's the next
big contract they have to worry about, Like he's extension
eligible next summer. I don't If you ask me, what
what do you pay Anthony Black?
Speaker 2: I I have no clue. I don't know what the
answer to that is.
Speaker 3: He's probably destined for the restricted free agency that all
these guys are going through right now, because you just
how do you know what he's worth at this point?
Speaker 2: And so I think he.
Speaker 3: Figuring out what his role is and how to make
the most of him. I think that's the swing between
the Magic being merely a very good team and being
a championship level team because now you have an extra
ball handler, you have another unique player, you know, maybe
you have someone that you can make someone else on
the roster expendable, h so you can help cut some
costs like that.
Speaker 2: That stuff.
Speaker 3: That's that's kind of the next big question. And the
other guy that I'm watching.
Speaker 2: Is Tristan de Silva.
Speaker 1: I think I was like what I was like, Oh
my god, I didn't really they have no wings depth
on the s.
Speaker 2: The Silva is.
Speaker 3: Gonna play like and like look, he stepped in in
a big moment early in his rookie season last year.
Speaker 2: Maybe hit the rookie wall.
Speaker 3: Maybe he wasn't you know, maybe he was too passive
and too much trying to fill in gaps for what
the Magic needed considering other injuries. The Magic need him
to be a reliable three point shooter and like unlike
Franz Tristan shooting very well in in the EuroBasket prep
games like he is, he is playing pretty well for
Germany out playing for Germany as they prep for EuroBasket.
They need him to be a reliable kind of three
and D just traditional three and D guy, just like
you're not.
Speaker 2: We don't want you to drive, We don't need you
to do anything crazy.
Speaker 3: Attack when it's open, shoot when it's open, keep the
ball moving, just you know, kind of stay out of
the way a little bit.
Speaker 2: But that's something he can do.
Speaker 3: That's why they drafted him, and so they need to
kind of show that that these draft picks are going
to pay pay off, because like, we're not gonna talk
about Jed Howard because they don't think he's unless he
suddenly starts shooting the shooting the cover off the ball
and holds his own on defense.
Speaker 2: He's just not some of the magic.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's ever going to hold his own
on defense.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either.
Speaker 3: I I that's why I took him off my board
and was shocked when the magic took him.
Speaker 1: My favorite Anthony Black stat is that he is shooting
over forty percent on corner threes for his career on
like one hundred and twenty something attempts or whatever outside
of the cleaning glasses on garbage time. Is that like
a possible? It was just like, because you mentioned they
have these other ball handlers, can they just streamline his offensive?
World'll be like hey, like if you got a fan
out in the corner and he moves pretty well off
the ball, like his defensive floor navigation, if you want
to watch someone on defense, like whether they're guarding the
ball or not, like he is one of those players,
like he will run through a gauntlet of bodies and angles.
It's insane.
Speaker 3: It's just finding a way to have him consistently contribute
on offense and not be such a negative and like
again like some of that, Like I.
Speaker 2: I like Aby is the sweetest.
Speaker 1: Kid, and he looks like a kid. He looks like
a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's said me.
Speaker 3: And one of the other reporters actually adopted him. He's
a child. But uh, he's I sometimes think he he
doesn't understand how good he is, and like like like
he's just like this very quiet, like I don't want
to say shy, he's this very quiet kid. And even
in a group of young guys, like he still feels
like he's the rookie.
Speaker 2: And so it's just like.
Speaker 3: How do you get him to understand, like, this is
what I'm good at.
Speaker 2: Im I can do these things. I am good enough
to do these things.
Speaker 3: And again, like you're drafting eighteen nineteen year olds, it
may you know, you don't want to give up on.
Speaker 2: Them too soon. So yeah, like getting a b in
the corner.
Speaker 3: Like again another area where having like Pallo and Franz
sucking an attention, another guy, you know, getting some attention.
Uh you know, it's all about you know, having better
players helps you get easier shots. And so like if
you can get him open threes in the corner, especially
like he's a reliable shooter and and he'll he'll hit
them more.
Speaker 2: Than you think.
Speaker 1: Do you have any none of us expect him to
play a huge role next season. But any early impressions
of Jace Richardson after watching him in Summer League.
Speaker 3: He's he's you know, he's small, which hurts him, but
he's feisty, like he like he is very much like
if the Magic we're gonna draft someone who's maybe a
little undersized, He's the kind of guy they would draft
like he is.
Speaker 2: He's fearless, you know.
Speaker 3: I know he was really strong at finishing at the
rim at Michigan State and not carried over into Summer League,
which was really encouraging to see. He'll fight on defense
and like that's half the battle is just are you
gonna put in the effort defensively?
Speaker 2: I don't know how much you'll play Like.
Speaker 3: They'll be injuries. There are always injuries during the course season.
Do I think Jalen Sugg is gonna play eighty two games? No, Like,
you'll probably still miss ten fifteen games over the course
of a season just because of bumps and bruises or
the Magic trying to protect him. Like we have we
have a running joke among mat I have a running
joke among with Magic fans know there's a running joke
among Magic fans. If Jonathan Isaac has a hangnail, he's
out for the next month. Jalen Suggs could have a
shoulder detached, three fingers falling off his knees.
Speaker 2: He's be replaced. He's back.
Speaker 3: He's back at he rubbed some dirt on him. He's
back in the game, like that dude. That dude is
held together with Duck two with a duck tape and
super blue.
Speaker 2: But like, like, look, the.
Speaker 3: Magic are the Magic are hoping to play an extra
month of basketball, so if they need to preserve him
in some way, they need to make sure they have
a plan to do so. So, like Jase, I think
we'll get some opportunity. The shooting looked like it'll translate.
Like he's looked pretty comfortable at the NB three point line.
He just seems like very he seems very very fearless,
which I think is is very very good. The guy
that I'm actually really more interested in seeing if he
can get playing time is no Appenda. I think like
Penda's not ready, Like he's still really really young and raw,
but the tools for him to be this like point
forward type guy and this like versatile inside out type
forward like he does. He does look a lot like
you know, play a lot like Boris Diaallett.
Speaker 2: At his best, He's he.
Speaker 3: He could be like when the Magic drafted him, it
was like it felt like, Okay, this is the kind
of player that you know. Makes Jonathan Isaac and his
fourteen and a half million dollars a little bit more
expendable if you're looking to cut caught somewhere, because you know,
fourteen a half million dollars for a guy that's playing
fifteen minutes a game, probably not the best use of
your resources if you're in look. I think we'll see
what Jai does this year, but Penda does a lot
of good things defensively.
Speaker 2: He needs a little bit more seasoning, but.
Speaker 3: That's a prospect that I'll be very interest to see
what happens when he when he gets an opportunity, inevitably
during the season.
Speaker 1: With Richardson and I think if you're small, then you
use the word fearless, which is perfect. You always have
to have a level of skill of getting your shot
off if you're going to get into the paint. I
came away from Summer League because I just don't have
a lot of priors on these guys, except for the
top guys when they're coming out of the draft. The
way he's able to get into the paint and get
his shots up over the trees is just was insane.
And so I always want to temper expectations for someone
who's listened. And six foot was drafted. It was a
twenty fifth, but my god, And then you mentioned like
the defensive field, like, okay, the three point shot cool,
but the defensive intensity is is bonkers too. So I'm
excited to see him. The thing you mentioned a couple
of times now there is their depth, and we talked
about with the wings, is there chance that they or
not even a chance, but do you expect them to
need to make something, not a huge move, but some
type of a move to address it, because it's not
just oh, look at the lack of wing depth, it's
they're kind of they have a bunch of bigs, but
they might be super fragile up front. With Jonathan Isaac
Wendell Carter junior, like he played in sixty eight games
last year, it felt like a revelation for them and
I was like, high, yeah, oh wasn't okay.
Speaker 3: High he played he played the most games consecutively in
his career. Last year, he like the same game that
Pallo got hurt, he had a knee issue and like
he missed the Cleveland game, came back against Dallas, re hurt,
his knee missed two weeks. He played the rest of
the season, no problem. It was a it was a miracle.
He couldn't shoot, you know, like struggle on offense like
everyone else did that.
Speaker 2: It was a miracle that he played the whole season.
Speaker 1: So do you think that that's something that they're gonna
have to or yeah, I would even use the word
have to where they're gonna have to look at Oh,
do we have to make some type of someone who's
durable and we know can log a certain type of
minutes Maybe not just even if it's just to eat
regular season innings, or is it we want someone that's
part of the playoff because they have a lot of guys.
But I think you said this before, it's they're entering
they have a lot of younger guys, and so though
they are by nature mysterious, mystery boxes, wildcards, whatever you
want to call them, and you're now entering this weird
window where I think we've seen contenders, which I would
classify the Magic as struggle with this time and again
of well, how do you balance player development of key
youngsters versus well, we have immediate expectations. Now, what's our
stomach for going through these learning curves, these growing pains.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a little bit
of we'll see where they're at in February. Like if
they're if they're like the three seed half game behind
New York for two, you know, game and a half,
two games back of Cleveland, and they're like looking at
themselves and like we're we're good enough now, Like there's
there's no we can't there's no waiting for next year,
Like we need to go for this now, or we're
not getting enough from you know, we're not getting enough
from Tristan to Silva. We need to fill that role,
Like we're not gonna win in the playoffs. We're not
going to go as far as we want in the
playoffs if we don't fill this role. We'll figure out
the financial stuff afterward. And again by then, like they'll
have some guys that are expendable, to be perfectly honest,
but if you know, by February, like no vager will
be healthy back in the rotation. If he looks good,
go Gebatadze at seven and a half million dollars or
eight million dollars, whatever he is, that's a movable trade
chip to get something of value, and a team would
take him and make him their backup center or their
starting center, which he's he's certainly earned, Like he's a luxury,
you know. Again, Like Jonathan Isaac, his contract is weird.
He's fourteen and a half million dollars, but he's he's
got he's got two years left, but he's he's got
three years left including this one. But each year is
only becomes guaranteed after he plays I think fifty two games,
so he's quasi non guaranteed, depending on how how things
go with his health. But like like I said, like
if you know, no, appenda looks better than you think,
now you know, maybe maybe that's the time to move them.
So they got they got some pieces that they can
still move around. Whether they do so, I think depends
on how ready they are. Like like, if you ask
me what my prediction for the season is, is like, well,
the match could be good enough to get home court advantage,
they'll you know, fight for they'll they'll probably be around
fifty went well, I think we're getting to that later,
but they're probably they're gonna be around the fifty win mark.
They're gonna get to the second round of the playoffs,
and they're gonna use this season to figure out, Okay,
like how close are we like, are like we pushed
all these chips in, are we going in the right direction?
Where where are our holes so that we can get
get over the hump and get to that next step.
But if we get to February and they're sitting like,
let's say they're sitting in the one seed.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's so crazy to say.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's not you know, it's not likely,
but it's not super crazy. If they're sitting in the
one seed and they're like, well, we need this to
beat Oklahoma City, we need this to beat Denver, we
need this to beat Houston, then they need.
Speaker 2: To go for it. Like so it's it's hard, Like
it's hard to predict.
Speaker 3: The trade deadline now, like we can see like the
contours of something as we're sitting here, but what they
ultimately go for and what they ultimately need that has
to play out on the court, because like, at the
end of the day, we don't know how this group
is going to work together.
Speaker 2: We don't know if these things are going to work
the way.
Speaker 3: We think they are, and how they adjust from there
is going to be gonna be the question that will
answer as the season goes on.
Speaker 1: This I think is I don't know if it's easier
to answer, but it's worth asking now because their payroll
situation is just kind of funny because Jet Howard is
almost the perfect salary to get them out of the tax,
you do have to fill that roster spot. I do
view them as a team that is not going to
pay the tax because why start the repeater clock when
you're about to get so expensive knowing that Jet Howard
alone doesn't get you out of it. Like, what would
be a player I know you mentioned the weirdness of
Jonathan Isaac's contract, is it does Mo Wagner come back
and you feel like Gogo Batadz is expendable. What's one
or two players that you're looking at and say, Okay,
they might be on salary dump watch entering this season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Jet Howard's obviously the obvious one because
like you could, someone's gonna take a second draft flyer
on him, like like you know young player.
Speaker 1: Orleans will do it, and then they'll trade him to
get out of the tax next year.
Speaker 3: Probably yeah, exactly exactly, Like go like Goga Batazze, like
he feels like a luxury, Like, I don't know if
that gets them completely under the tax.
Speaker 1: He's yeah, he's over eight yeah, yeah, and it's and
it's de escalating, so it's it's frontloaded as a frontloaded deal,
which is the well one.
Speaker 3: Special he he just feels like a luxury, Like that
guy should be in an NBA rotation and on this
Magic team.
Speaker 2: He's just not.
Speaker 3: Like you know, they they have a emergency third center
and a two way contract in Orlando Robinson. But you know,
for the first time ever, the Magic could probably trade someone,
keep an open they have an open roster spot, and
go go into the mercenary market and find someone on
the buyout market at the at the end of the year.
So like if you traded gogabataz and you still need
a third center, someone's going to wriggle free. Is that
when they bring to Cole Probably.
Speaker 4: Not, but but but but but I fans have asked
fans have asked me about him, and I'm just like, no, stop, Yeah,
I'm I'm a guy, is my guy.
Speaker 2: No, he's.
Speaker 1: He's still he's still giving back to a franchise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly the Bulls. The Bulls are just the
franchise that keeps on giving. But like go like but
TODs feels like that guy. He's a position of need
around the league. So like you could even have two
contenders make a trade like that, where you know a
team that's trying to buy, you know, like I always
say the trade deadlines about buyers and sellers, like you
know that you're you're not typically gonna find two teams
that are gonna do something mutual because it's becomes mutually
sure destruction. If I'm helping you and we meet in
the playoffs, you're gonna you're gonna hurt me with that.
But like go go a Toadzi is the kind of
player that, like, you know, this is the low hanging
fruit on that end. But like the Lakers need bigs,
they need centers, not that they have any wings or
guards that the Magic want, which is probably what keptaz
trade from happening this summer. But like you can make,
you can find a way to make something happen and
probably get to playoff level teams that that accomplish what
they want to accomplish that way.
Speaker 2: So it feels like.
Speaker 3: I'm still shocked that Pataz signed the contract that he
did because, like to me, he was already a rotation
level big and the Magic did not have a rotation
spot for him. But that feels like the move to
make if you're looking to do something at the dumbing
this one are looking to get under the tax.
Speaker 1: This will be the second team with the first one
being the Knicks that I've campaigned to trade for this player.
A Goga Batadze for Justin Champagni deal with Washington makes
a ton of sense. Washington could use additional They have
Trician Vukevich in addition to Marvin Back excuse me, addition
to Alex Sar But oh, go ahead, where are you
gonna say?
Speaker 3: I think the Magic just acquired Julian Champenne's G League
return rights.
Speaker 2: Oh what.
Speaker 1: His brother, right, Justin Champagnie is on the They just
uh Julian, Yeah, I know who Julian Champagne is. On
the spurs.
Speaker 2: Uh they they were they acquired someone's Geleague returns the right.
Maybe I have that wrong. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't follow the Osteolo Magic as closely as I
should perhaps, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but something like a trade like that where it
cuts payroll and if you hit someone you very rarely
see like the big for wing trades. But like Washington
might be a team where that would.
Speaker 3: Be but like yeah, yeah, and Washington's uh seller obviously
not not so much a buyer, and they just have quietly.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Hornets would make a lot of sense,
but they don't have anybody who's cheap that I mean
if they were going to give you Liam McNeely, but
they won't. They don't have anyone who's cheap who should
interest the Magic, and just Washington still has all this
flexibility underneath.
Speaker 3: And the Magic and the Magic still have an open
roster spot because they're one point three million dollars under
the first Apron hard cap and they can't they so
they obviously they can't sign anybody because I would minimum
contract would exceed the hard cap.
Speaker 2: So like they'll I think the Magic will be a
player in the buy art market.
Speaker 3: I think they'll they'll they'll probably look to supplement themselves
a little bit there. Like I've I've seen some people
pitch like, oh, when Washington buys out Chris Middleton, like
that's that's who the Magic bring in.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, uh, it's just.
Speaker 1: Not a playoff killer. But that's just like another.
Speaker 2: A crazy idea but not.
Speaker 3: But like you feel like if you stick Chris Middleton
where Tristan de Silva is, that's not going to kill
you as much as like relying on him to be
a starter.
Speaker 1: Are you ready?
Speaker 2: It's it's a long way away.
Speaker 1: Yes it is. But I think would you do you
think that the goal is going to be that they'll
end up ducking attack somehow, just given the state of
their books moving forward.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how close they were.
Speaker 1: They don't have any contract incentives that they're like waiting
on either. I think everyone's salaries just no.
Speaker 3: I mean the only one is like, the only one
is like Isaac's you know guarantee, which I think like
at this point it's a likely incentive because he hit
it last year. Yeah, I think the tricky part about
it is is the Magic want to win, and so
they're not gonna you know, if they're like the four
of the five seed, would they would they like, I
don't say a band in the season, because they're not
trading anyone that important to abandon the season. But are
they gonna if they're the four of the five seed
or they're not having the season? They thought, like, yeah, absolutely,
like duck the tax and do that. But if they're not,
and obviously they can't add a ton more salary, they're
not gonna do anything to I don't say sabotage their
team because that's that's again we're not talking about that
level of player.
Speaker 1: Howard, that's just me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Jet Jet's a good locker room guy,
but he is. But but but not in that way.
But yeah, like, if they can, I'm sure they would,
but I feel like they're not gonna do anything out
of their way to do so, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter our cookie cutter lightning Round
portion of the podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about flaws strengths of this team.
What do you view as their biggest need right now
ahead of their training camp in the regular season Three
point shooting.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna believe they can make
threes until they do.
Speaker 2: They I am.
Speaker 3: I'm willing to go with this experiment at the point
guard spot. Like I like I mentioned earlier, this like
putting this moneyballing the point guard position.
Speaker 2: I still think they're going to get to a point.
Speaker 3: And it may not. It may be in the playoffs.
This here, it may not be something that happened. It
may just be something they realize when they're, you know,
playing those big games, they need a point guard, or
they just need someone. They need someone in that starting
lineup who knows how to organize things. But you know,
I don't think that's a question we can answer until
they fail at it, Until they fail at it.
Speaker 1: Is there anything about this team a strength weakness storyline
that you think is flying under the radar right now?
Speaker 2: Under the radar, I think the biggest thing is.
Speaker 3: People we haven't talked a lot about him, So let's
use this as if we gole talk about him.
Speaker 2: People underrate Wendell Carter.
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, like the fan, like I
was on Blocked Down Fantasy Basketball, Josh Lloyd, and like
he would say, like a lot of fantasy owners don't
understand why Goo Gooa Toadse doesn't play Gogaba Todse racks
up all the stats like he's a you know, he'll
get you. He'll get you eight and eight off the
bench in fifteen minutes, Like he's gonna he's gonna pick
up a lot of rebounds. He's gonna block a shot
or two per game, like he's he's the fantasy darling.
And no one understands why the Magic don't play him often,
And I'll be like no, Like Wendell Carter is like
as much of the lynchpin of this defense as anyone
else because he can step out and guard on the perimeter.
Speaker 2: He can guard.
Speaker 3: He's a solid post defender. You look look up his
numbers against Nikola Jokic. He's among the best defenders against
Nikola Jokic in the league, which again, like Jokic still
gets like twenty five and however many, but he defend,
he defends a lot of those low post, low post
bigs really well.
Speaker 2: He was a central figure and a really important.
Speaker 3: Part of the Magic looked so impressive in their series
against Boston, and you know that that was a five
game series ended up you know, being pretty pretty pro forma.
But they frustrated Boston with the three point shooting because
Wendell Carter was able to switch on to Jalen Brown
fairly comfortably.
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown made those shots.
Speaker 3: Boston made all the shots they missed against Boston made
all the shots against Orlando that they missed against New
York And it was very frustrating to watch that. But like,
Wendell Carter is a bigger piece of this team's defense
that people I think give him credit for. And if
he can bounce back offensively, if he can, you know,
and he's going to be in a smaller role offensively,
so if he's averaging you know, ten and ten, ten
and ten is probably too much. But like, if he
can make threes at thirty two, thirty three, thirty four percent,
be a little bit more present in the paint in
the dunker spot, you know, get if you get, if
you know, get up his assists a little bit. He
can be a real big folk rum for why the
Magic's offense figures some things out even if he's not scoring.
So here's a lot of things that just don't show
up on if you're just box score watching.
Speaker 1: I know you said that you think they should run
a nine man rotation. But if you're like looking and
trying to think, Okay, who will be the ten most
used players this season, who do you have in that
it does feel like the starting lineup is at least
locked into Stelly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the starting the starting lineup should be said, It'll
be Suggs, Bain, Franz Pallo, Carter Uh coming off the bench,
they'll death, you know, Tias Jones, Anthony Black, Jonathan Isaac,
one of Mo Wagner or Gogobitadze. Like I said, Bo
will probably be out until December with the with the
a CL recovering from the a CL, and then I
do think like Tristan de Silva is gonna hold down
that tenth spot at the three essentially. I think that's
I think that's kind of the ten men that they're
going to go and go into the season with.
Speaker 1: What do you think that there's gonna be now that
you're throwing Bain and Tias Jones in the fold, Like,
what should we expect from the look of their secondary lineups?
I know you mentioned a lot of like bench mob stuff,
but like if you're trying to build the ideal, like
it's the non core lineup, Like what direction do you
want to see the magic track, either in terms of
personnel makeup or just the style of play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I kind of want to.
Speaker 3: I kind of like the lineups that they had that
were just Sugs and Frons together, Okay, And so I think,
like I think what you might see is, like Franz
is usually the first one out of the lineup. They'll
usually bring either Isaac in, they would bring like twenty
twenty four, they bring Ingles in, So.
Speaker 2: Maybe that changes a bit.
Speaker 3: Maybe it'll be like Black coming in for Franz, and
so they'll run a Sugs, Black, Bain, Pallo Carter lineup
for a little bit when they break those lineups. But
maybe you take Sugs out earlier too, and you run
ti Us a lot with maybe Polo and Bain, and
then you have a Tias, Sugs, Fronds kind of core
lineup to open to to be your bench lineup. So
it would be Sugs, Tias, Sugs, Franz, Isaac and the Toads.
Let's say, so you have a good pick and roll
threat between Tias, Jones and Gogoba TODs perhaps or Mo
Vioger's also excellent on pick and roll so that that
that transitions easily. Yeah, I have a good defender, a
good perimeter defender, and Suggs to cover for whatever Tias
Jones is dealing with. You got Isaac behind him. You
know you're you're still that that group is still going
to be pretty good defensively. It's just that's gonna be
the group that you can run a lot more with.
I think a lot more with. I think so you can.
I think having Sugs with that group helps helps a
ton and just generally like getting Sugs together with Tias
I think helps cover whatever defensive issues he might have.
Speaker 1: When you're looking at the players who will play, do
you see like any potential for a Stark Riser or
Fallower where you could look back and and be like, oh,
he was squeezed out of the primaritation all or this
dude played a bunch more minutes than I was expecting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I think Anthony Block's the
answer to that, where you know he he he could
either be a guy that's like, oh, this is a
you know, the sixth man essentially, like why do we
even have Tias Jones Because Anthony Black has such command
over everything, or it's just like we don't know what
this kid is. Maybe we need to give Jason try.
We can't play Jason too much with Tyas Jones, but
like you know, Tys Jones is kind of that guy too,
where it's just like, well he's struggling on defense, he's
not giving us very much. Maybe we need to get
what we can for him, or maybe we need to
try Jason that spot next to Jalen Suggs and just
say like this is just something different, something different. So
you know, I think those guards are still a little
bit of a question a little bit of a question mark.
And again like we just don't know what Anthony Black
is at this point. And again we're two years in,
so it's just like, okay, you got to show us
who you are, or maybe the Magic need to move on.
Speaker 1: Tyas Jones was actually my answer to that, because I
think he probably has a cap unless there's an injury
on how much he will play. But I actually kind
of thinking out like, oh if Anty Black plays well,
and then you mentioned even they give Jace Richardson a look.
When we were talking about the tax thing. This is
like a couple of weeks ago. I was writing to my head,
I was like, is there a scenario where it's mid
season he just gets shipped to Utah, bought out and
signs in Denver. That's how they duck the tax because
Anty Black is so good, or they decide that they
don't need what he's bringing to.
Speaker 2: To that point. To that point, like a guy you
get squeezed out.
Speaker 3: Tyas probably gets squeezed out when they make the playoffs
and you start limiting his minutes a little bit more
because just this the defense. You lose so much defensively,
unless he's just so important to functioning on offense, which
like Corey Joseph was last year, and you know ante
like I like, look, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: I agree it.
Speaker 3: Like I when the Magic signed Corey Joseph last summer,
people ask me, why are they signing him?
Speaker 2: It's just like he's just a good vet.
Speaker 3: If he's playing, something terrible has happened, and what do
you know, many terrible happened. Yeah, many terrible things happen,
But like he stabilized that lineup, and like Corey Joseph
was a good argument for why you actually need a
point guard and why why even like a Corey Joseph
figure was so important for that team.
Speaker 1: Is that this can be to some extent matchup dependent.
But for them, do you think the fir go to
closing unit will wind up just being the starting five
or is there the potential for Jamal Moseley to futzon
fiddle there.
Speaker 3: I think generally it'll be that starting five. Like I think,
I think Boseley, throughout his tenure as the coach has
been willing to ride the hot hand a little bit
like he's he's He's had a lot of a lot
of moments where he will the bench group will be
playing really well and you'll just leave him in for
the whole fourth quarter. Like that hasn't happened as much,
or that hasn't happened since they've got really good, but he's.
Speaker 2: Done that before.
Speaker 3: I think I think there's the potential for like if
they need if they're on offense, especially maybe Tias Jones
is in and they either take out depending on matchup,
they take out Suggs or they take out a player
who's not shooting well or Carter or something like that.
Because Mosley likes to like have the have the guys
figured out, like like he got yelled at by fans
last year because he had two instances late in a
game where he didn't call time out after after a
misfree throw rebound, and like, I'm generally like I'm of
the school that's just like that's I don't have a
problem with that, Like you're going to catch a defense
off guard. Like if if you run into a problem,
maybe you need to call time out, which happened in
one of those games. But otherwise, like you know, balls
in the hands of your best player, just go like
what do you what? What player are you really drawing up?
That isn't that, that isn't just that catch the defense
off guard. So having a guy like Tyas Jones that
you can get the ball to and make that decision
and transition might be more advantageous. But generally, I think
their closing lineup is going to be their starting group.
Those are their five best players, and I think generally
the Magic's overall philosophy is we just want to put
our five best players on the floor as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Is there a weirdo or funky lineup you'd like to
see Mosley try this year?
Speaker 3: I would like to see him try, Like I know,
I just did this whole thing about point guards, like
this point guardless lineup that's like Bain Palo, Franz Isaac,
you know, maybe Suggs, like like try and putting I day.
I put on the weight last year and it was
a disaster, but playing him at center is still a
good idea playing like having some minutes where Palo is
the five and you're playing five out, Like the Magic
didn't have the shooting in the past to really do
that now they did. Like if you know, you could
put a lineup of Tias Jones, Jalen Suggs, Desmond Dane, Pallo,
Bane Carol, Jonathan Isaac and probably have enough shooting to
get by or Tristan da Silvas instead of one of
those guys. You probably have enough shooting to get by
now in a way that you didn't before. And so
I'd like to see them try, you know, these small
ball center lineups, Like Steve Kerr loved playing Palo at
the five during the during the World Cup a few
years ago and like it didn't work great, But that's
I think more of a function of FEBA. People think
like those death lineups are like something you do all
the time. It's like, no you do it for the
last two minutes at the end of a quarter to
throw the other team off a little bit, where you know,
it's it's it's a limited timeframe. You kind of go
all out, you go to locker room, you recover, and
that's that. Just having at versatility I think's really really important.
And the Magic, you know, should have some freedom to
try some different things and and.
Speaker 2: Might depend on what other teams are doing and what.
Speaker 3: They expect to see in the playoffs, like you know,
the I mean, let's just be let's be real. The
Nicks and the cab they're they're the two teams that
they're probably going to be going after, and the Pistons
the team like right behind them too, and even the Hawks.
Speaker 2: Those are teams that are gonna go big.
Speaker 3: So maybe the Magic need to try more Carter Batadze
lineups together than they have in the past, which they've
they've experimented with.
Speaker 2: It a little bit.
Speaker 3: But if Carter's three point shot is back, they should
absolutely be testing out Carter Batadze lineups, you know, with Palo,
with Franz, with whoever's the at the one, two and three.
Speaker 2: But that's probably the direction they need to go, I.
Speaker 1: Want to see four guards. Give me Jace Richardson with Suggs,
Baine and Anthony Black and then you could put Palo
or Jonathan Isaac in the middle. I want to see what.
Speaker 2: That looks like. Something like that would be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you have anything else that you want
to talk about or you think we need to discuss
with this team before we get into predictions.
Speaker 2: I think we covered most of it.
Speaker 3: I can't think of anything, you know, just that this
team has to prove itself, Like I think that's the
big They're like all young teams that are kind of
fresh on the scene. They they've never done it before,
so they got to They got to prove themselves.
Speaker 1: So how many games would you if you want to
give a range that's fine, would you see them winning?
And where do you see them falling for the regular
season in terms of an Eastern Conference seed.
Speaker 3: I think they're like I said, I think they're gonna
be right around fifty wins, So I probably put them
in like the forty eight to fifty four fifty five range.
There's definitely a world where like everything clicks, their offense
is sudden, you know, not the best offense in league.
But their offense is top half of the league. Their
defense is still elite, and that's enough to really push
them up the standings and make them just a dangerous team.
Like the one stat we didn't talk about here, to
bring it back to shooting, the Magic's record when they
shot thirty three percent or better from three last year
was twenty seven to ten.
Speaker 2: That's such a low.
Speaker 1: They not have to shoot too that's crazy.
Speaker 3: It's thirty three percent. It is still the worst three
point shooting percentage in the league. The Wizard shot thirty
three point two or three or four something like that percent.
They just had to be competent, And by competent, I
mean they just had to be not the worst shooting
team of the last ten years, and they gave themselves
a really good chance to win.
Speaker 2: So there's definitely a universe where they're.
Speaker 3: Like eighteenth in the league and three point field goal
percentage and that's enough to make them twelfth in the
league in offensive rating, and they're like third or fourth
in defensive rating.
Speaker 2: Maybe their defense takes a little bit.
Speaker 3: Of a step back, and that's probably enough to get them,
you know, to have them compete. That's that's enough to
get them to the three seed in the East. I
think they should be aiming for the three seed. They
should feel like, you know, we're the third best team
in the Eastern Conference. Like anyone who is predicting us
to be worse than the Pistons or the Bucks or
any of these other teams, they're forgetting that we won
forty seven games two years ago and we're still essentially
the same team we lost, only we won we lost
only we won only six fewer games last year, even
with our top four scorers missing significant time. You know,
the top four score last year where Palo, Franz, Jalen Suggs, Movoger,
Jalen Suggs played thirty six games, Moe was out since Christmas.
Paalo missed twenty game, missed a two months in, Franz
missed twenty games.
Speaker 2: Like they they were still a.
Speaker 3: Really tough team, but obviously, like getting from getting to
fifty wins is a bigger, bigger step, So they got
they gotta do a lot of things better, and there's
just and there's certainly a universe where they're like a
little bit of the same as they were in twenty
twenty four, and even then they're probably in the upper
forties as far as wins.
Speaker 2: That probably leaves them as the four of the five seed, but.
Speaker 3: That's kind of their baseline unless they have another like
run of injuries, Like, I can't see them falling much
far below that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, their floor feels like four. And I think I'm
pretty high on the Cavs, but I am not entirely
convinced that the Knicks should just be favored over the Magic.
Speaker 3: I think I get the feeling that, like those teams especially,
they're gonna pace themselves in a way like a team
like the Magic wouldn't like for the Magic, like winning
fifty games the first time, they're gonna go four, like
they're gonna you know, like, yeah, that's that's kind of
how those teams go. Whereas like Cleveland's not gonna win
sixty games next year, like they're gonna piece themselves a
little bit like New York, Like they know there are battles.
Speaker 1: They paced themselves and won sixty plus last year. Anyway, Yeah,
so CAW's when I do that again. I don't think
the Knicks had that type of depth. I mean, everyone's
making I think they were good signings, but you know,
they're making Gershon Yabouseli and Jordan Clarkson into being like these.
Speaker 2: I'm, yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a little worried that, like, like.
Speaker 2: Not to make this next podcast.
Speaker 3: My big concern with the next is that they are
a function of Tom Thibodeau, and you take whatever Thibodeau has,
whatever magic Thibodeaux has, and they're not the same.
Speaker 2: They're still good, don't get me wrong, still very good. Well,
but Thibodeau is just Thibodeau.
Speaker 1: That's honestly, I haven't heard that framing yet. That's an
interesting way to frame it. My concern is I'm an alarmist,
which is a character flaw, And so I look at
the durability they've gotten from McHale, Bridges other teams his
entire career, Josh Hart the past few years, Ogi Ananobi
last year, and I'm sitting here thinking, Oh, they're due
to get fucked. That's that's like my mind.
Speaker 2: She's gonna drop at some point, right.
Speaker 1: So, looking way ahead into a potential playoff matchup, what
is a team in the East that you find most intriguing, fascinating,
even most concerning of a matchup for Orlando.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we've we've obviously seen this team play
Cleveland before and they're essentially still similar teams. The the
Cleveland series, I was like, I was still so impressed
with how the Magic played that series, but I think
even Magic fans forget Jared Allen missed essentially the whole series.
Like he took an elbow to the ribs and game
and yeah, and it was out. He was out for
the whole series. Like like he played a little bit
in Game four and left in the first half, and like, look,
the Magic, you know, you always win that first game
coming back home, Jared Allen crushed the Magic and moving
Evan Mobley to the five, I think opened the door
for the Magic to make that a much more competitive
series than it was. Like Donovan Mitchell still did Donovan
Mitchell things like maybe the Magic size on the perimeter
bugged Darius Garland a lot more. You know, one thing
in that series was they kind of used Jalen Suggs
to shut down Darius Garland in that series because they
had Gary Harris to kind of help slow down Donovan Mitchell.
And obviously he didn't slow him down because done slows
down Donald Mitchell in the playoffs. But except for donovand
Mitchell's body, the uh, the Magic, I think there's still
an interesting matchup for Cleveland. I don't think they're like
a pushover. I don't think that's like a sweep or anything.
But the Magic tend to struggle with very big lineups,
and especially like Evan Mobley is a defensive Player of
the Year, Like he is a very good defender. They
didn't get to see him guard Palo or Fronz, like essentially,
like entering that series, I said, the Magic need to
attack whoever Evan Mobley's not guarding. So like if Bobli's
on Palo, Franz take the lead. If Bobli's on Franz,
Pallo take the lead. And it ended up like Jared
Allen went out, they didn't have to worry about that anymore.
Both guys were able to kind of get themselves going.
So I think Cleveland is still a really tough matchup
for Orlando. New York's five out, Like the Magic, didn't
you like job with Boston, They're like, mate, they're like
four out, They're like five out, yes, yeah, yeah. With
Josh Hart, yeah, you probably end up putting like Carter
on on Heart and and like but I don't know,
like the Magic like to switch so much. It it
like keeping a guy away from the paint. I think
exposes a quiet weakness of this defense. Like the Magic
are not particularly strong defending the rim. And that's not
just because they don't have a great shop blocker. It's
it's they Their strategy is, we're going to keep you
from shooting threes and try and crowd you in the
paint and if we value whatever, But they they still
give up a fair share of shots at their rim,
and they could test them decently, but it always I'm
always concerned, and this is just maybe my old school
defensive mentality. I'm still always scared to death of not
having a big able to rotate quickly to the to
the to the to the basket and defend the paint
and leaving that paint wide open. So five out offenses
still bug me. And you know, again, we'll see what
it looks like this yere. But teams that get hot
from three, like the Magic tried its best they can
to take away threes, but they've never been able to
keep up with three point shooting. So like when they
play a Boston, they'd make a ton of threes. It'd
be like, well, that's there's nothing we can do about
that tonight. So I still think the Magic are an
interesting matchup for the top two teams in the East.
But I think both those teams still have advantages that
the Magic have to prove they can handle, which which
they haven't did a playoff setting yet.
Speaker 1: I want to see a Magic Piston series because.
Speaker 3: But the thing is, like we said this before the
Magic Cavs series in twenty twenty four, everybody says they
want the nineties back, and they get it in a
playoff series and they stick it on NBA TV.
Speaker 1: Well, look, the NBA is gonna and I like it
in you go back and watch early two thousands or
night late nineties basketball, like no, thank you. But I
can appreciate the nostalgia of it, and it's like the
modern day slant because it's so far into us like this, Yeah,
I don't want to use the word violence, but the
physicality of it. These two teams are like if the
Rockets and the Magic played in the same conference, or
if they met in the NBA finals.
Speaker 3: My god, people, people, people don't understand, Like, so Magic Pistons.
I think that is the next fun like young rivalry
in the league. They've gotten into fights both the past
two years like they like like like two years ago,
Killian Hayes literally shoved Mo Wagner into the Pistons bench.
Mo Wogner like like went after him, like they had
to do a poll apart. Like players came off the
Magic's bench because it was over by the Pistons bench
player Magic players got suspended for coming off the bench.
Speaker 2: They didn't know the rules.
Speaker 3: Last year, the Magic, like it felt like a must
win game for the Magic.
Speaker 2: They left their starters in.
Speaker 3: It was the first like Jalen Suggs had just come
back from a back from back spasms.
Speaker 2: He played.
Speaker 3: They the Magic main starter is usually all lead. You know,
Palo Frands, they don't start the fourth quarter. All three
of those guys started the fourth quarter. They started on
a like a twelve oh run to turn a four
point game into an eight to four point deficit into
an eight point lead, and then like midway through the
fourth quarter, the Magic are up by like twelve, fourteen points.
Isaiah Stewart and I forget who's Isaiah Stuart And someone
got into it over by the Magic S bench.
Speaker 2: They needed to be pulled apart.
Speaker 3: Jalen Suggs actually hurt his knee in the fro and
the like fracas or around the fracas, and he left
the game after that point. But it like these two
teams like like they get after each other. They like
there there's definitely something there.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get a preview of it.
Speaker 3: They're in the NBA Cup together, in the same group
in the NBA Cup, last game of group play for
both teams. I think it probably determines who wins that
group and who advances so in Detroit, so it'll be
there's definitely something there with the Magic Pistons. I'd love
to see a Magic Piston series two.
Speaker 1: Finally, mister Phillip Rossman Reich of Orlando Magic Daily and
the Lockdown Magic Podcast, can I get one more Magic
prediction from you for this season? It can be whatever
you want.
Speaker 3: I mean, the the easy one is that the streak's
gonna end, that the Magic will get out of the
bottom ten and offensive rating for the first time since
twenty twelve. That that I said that last year, I'm
gonna say it again this year.
Speaker 2: It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. One more prediction from me.
I think that.
Speaker 3: I think the Magic will have two All Stars I think.
I don't think that's maybe going out too far in
alim but I think Powo and Franz will both be
All Stars this year. I think Palo will make All
NBA and and get the super get all the super
Max that comes with it. I think Desmond Dane is
going to be pretty close. I don't know if he's
gonna get in, but he's in the East. Now he's
in the East.
Speaker 2: He's in the East.
Speaker 3: Without Tatum Embiid's probably not gonna get it, get an
All Stars.
Speaker 1: And Bean was eliminated from Awards voting the moment the
schedule came out. The six or have sixteen back backs.
He's done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't mean anything for All Star Game though.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. Okay, yeah, yeah, I like that one.
Speaker 2: I'll do another one. I'll do another one.
Speaker 3: Then the Magic are gonna be going to Vegas for
the NBA Cup Final.
Speaker 1: All right, that's the NBA isna.
Speaker 3: They have been a good They've been a good NBA
Cup team. They they when they finished their game in
the first the first year they finished their their Cup
their group games against Boston, they had like a twenty
point lead. Boston beat Chicago by thirty something, with Joe
Misula telling Billy Donovan like, I got to win this
game by thirty to advance. Last year, they had a
thirty two point lead heading into New York. New York
went up by thirty five just to prove a point.
And then Orlando went to Milwaukee and lost to the
to the eventual NBA Cup champions. Don't don't ever say
Damian Lillard didn't win anything in Milwaukee lost to the
eventual NBA Cup champions in the Bucks. I think the
Magic are going to Vegas at the very least, and
I think they'll be in the NBA Cup Final.
Speaker 1: I love it. Philip, this was great. Thank you for
giving me so much of your time. Are you able
just to tell our listeners, anyone who's watching our audience
where they can find you in all the fantabulous work
that you put out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, best place to find me.
Speaker 3: If you enjoy listening to my voice or seeing my
smiling face, you can check me out on the Lockdown
Magic podcast. You can download that wherever you download podcasts.
We're also on YouTube to search for Lockdown Magic, and
you can find my writing at Orlando Magic Daily dot com.
Best place to follow me is on Twitter at Philip
r Underscore O and d or at Omagic Daily.
Speaker 2: I'm also on Blue Sky at Philip r R.
Speaker 1: You can find the links to his social media stuff
and his work at Lockdown Magic. It will be in
the YouTube podcast description. Again, thank you so much. This
was great. Can't believe it took me so long to
get you on this podcast. Rest assured I will be
pestering you again down the line, and as always, leave
everybody with the shout out to the one and the
only mister Frank Neil A Kina