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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 6: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening Forgotten Sacramento
Speaker 6: Murders nineteen forty to nineteen seventy six explores the crimes
Speaker 6: by Sacramento's greatest nation. The murders that shocked Sacramento two
Speaker 6: generations ago are now only remembered by a handful of people,
Speaker 6: but during its time, they startled Sacramento to its very core,
Speaker 6: including the original Boogieman, who in nineteen fifty six murdered
Speaker 6: a young boy in a downtown movie theater's men's room,
Speaker 6: the Mad Basher of nineteen forty one, who disappeared after
Speaker 6: his spree, only to reappear in nineteen fifty six to
Speaker 6: kill five more. Teenager Raymond Alatschaw grew tired of his
Speaker 6: abusive father, so he killed him, his new wife, step brother,
Speaker 6: and grandparents in nineteen forty three. From nineteen forty nine
Speaker 6: to nineteen fifty one, hobo Lloyd Gomez murdered eight men
Speaker 6: in hobol camps up and down the Central Valley. His
Speaker 6: conscience caught up to him after he murdered a fellow
Speaker 6: hobo for a couple bottles of beer in Sacramento. The
Speaker 6: despicable Robert Nicholas, the c SU Sacramento graduate who murdered
Speaker 6: his three small children in nineteen sixty four and was
Speaker 6: astonishingly paroled in nineteen seventy seven. This evil man stewed
Speaker 6: in hatred for his ex wife, murdering her. In nineteen
Speaker 6: eighty five. He died in prison. The unsolved double murder
Speaker 6: of grocery store clerks Philip Latimer and Michael McCandless in
Speaker 6: nineteen sixty five. In nineteen fifty eight, Sacramento media was
Speaker 6: turned on its head after local television personality Ogden Miles
Speaker 6: was found murdered in a stubble field near Antelope. A
Speaker 6: violent same sex tryst doomed the married father of two.
Speaker 6: Sacramento has a long and sordid history of murder, beginning
Speaker 6: with the murderous founder John Sutter. Who taught thought nothing
Speaker 6: of killing Native Americans, to the recently captured Joseph DiAngelo,
Speaker 6: who is accused of being the Golden State Killer. Sacramento
Speaker 6: has a reputation for creepy murders. The book that were
Speaker 6: featuring this evening has Forgotten Sacramento Murders nineteen forty to
Speaker 6: nineteen seventy six, with my special guests, journalist and author
Speaker 6: David Kolchik. Welcome back to the program, and thank you
Speaker 6: very much for a greenious interview. David Kolchik, Any, thanks.
Speaker 7: For having me on again. It's always an honor.
Speaker 8: I hope I pronounced your last name properly. It's been
Speaker 8: a little while.
Speaker 7: So yeah, you did, you did it perfect.
Speaker 8: There we go. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7: We are from the same Slavic stock, you know, so yeah.
Speaker 8: We do have that. Yeah, you got to kind of pask.
Speaker 8: You got to make sure, you know, is that the
Speaker 8: way to produce it. I mean, I think I'm looking
Speaker 8: at these vowels and consonants properly. Congratulations had the Sacramental murders.
Speaker 7: Thank you. This is the congratulations book that This book
Speaker 7: is kind of came out because of my other books.
Speaker 7: I had so much information, so many files on all
Speaker 7: these other murders, and I thought, you know, I love
Speaker 7: the city. Sacramentos is one of the one of the
Speaker 7: greatest cities, I think in the America. So it's, uh,
Speaker 7: it's laid back, it has a porch culture because of
Speaker 7: the heat. It has a very strong evening culture that
Speaker 7: goes back since it started, you know, you know, siestas
Speaker 7: and all that, and it's a great city. It's it's
Speaker 7: basically in a forest. So yeah, so our Golden State
Speaker 7: murdered the east Side rapist that happened in the neighborhood
Speaker 7: right where I live now, and my wife was about
Speaker 7: twelve years old and it was happening, and you know,
Speaker 7: that's when everybody got steel doors for their front door
Speaker 7: and all that. And you know what, everyone knew he
Speaker 7: was a cop before any of this even happened. And
Speaker 7: he talked about the East Side killer, everyone would say, oh,
Speaker 7: he was a cop, he was a cop.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was a lot of correct people. But it's
Speaker 8: still an amazing, incredible story and Sacramento is certainly again
Speaker 8: on the map.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Well, for some reason, crazy murders happened here.
Speaker 8: Absolutely absolutely, as demonstrated in this book. Jeez, let's get
Speaker 8: to some of those right now. Separate the two stories
Speaker 8: because there is a gap in time, but we'll put
Speaker 8: those together. They call them the Mad Basher in an introduction.
Speaker 8: We call them that, but you call them the Mad
Speaker 8: Killer in the book. And so we talk about the
Speaker 8: Mad Killer returns, but there is the Mad Killer of
Speaker 8: nineteen forty one and then later nineteen fifty seven to
Speaker 8: nineteen fifty eight. So, like I say, a sixteen year gap,
Speaker 8: let's talk about the Mad Killer of nineteen forty one.
Speaker 8: And you have the victims as Raman Revaz and Alfred Reid,
Speaker 8: and then three John does one, two and three.
Speaker 7: There's also a mean tell us a little bit of
Speaker 7: Sanders who was beaten and survived. But yeah, so well,
Speaker 7: Sacramento has always been the end of the line. And
Speaker 7: I mean around Sacramento is you know, the great Sacramento Valley,
Speaker 7: in the San Joaquin Valley. Everything grows here, you know,
Speaker 7: so they need a lot of transient workers, and you
Speaker 7: know and honest to god cowboys, especially back in nineteen
Speaker 7: forty one, and so they would find these guys, and
Speaker 7: it so happens today where they find them in a slough.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of little channels out here for irrigation
Speaker 7: for all the fields and stuff. And even now they
Speaker 7: find people, you know, decomposed and the slow, you know.
Speaker 7: But in nineteen forty one it got a little crazy
Speaker 7: because five of them showed up, actually more than that,
Speaker 7: but five of them for sure that were beaten to death.
Speaker 7: And the summer in nineteen forty one, first guy they found,
Speaker 7: he was outside of the town. He was too decomposed
Speaker 7: to identify, and they believed him to be Mexican or
Speaker 7: Filipino heritage, about twenty years old. He'd been dead for
Speaker 7: a while, about eight months now. In August twentieth, they
Speaker 7: found Davis Rancher Elford Reed, and he was by this bridge.
Speaker 7: And oddly enough, the area it's still pretty pretty rural.
Speaker 7: It's still Sacramento, but it's very rural area by the airport.
Speaker 7: And they found these shepherds found this guy, Elfred Reed,
Speaker 7: and he was all beat up and broken up and everything,
Speaker 7: and he was able to tell the police that he
Speaker 7: had been drinking with a man under the Ice Street bridge.
Speaker 7: There's only like two bridges in Sacramento in the Ice
Speaker 7: Street bridges. One of them road in a car bridge
Speaker 7: and it's one hundred and something years old. So these
Speaker 7: the hobos and people, well, it's right next to Old
Speaker 7: sac and Old Sentramento now is a state park in
Speaker 7: the California system, and it's all made up. So it's
Speaker 7: a Wild West town. And that only happened since the seventies.
Speaker 7: For one hundred and thirty years, it was where you
Speaker 7: would go to pick up a hooker, or to buy heroin,
Speaker 7: or to drink crazy or whatever you wanted. It was
Speaker 7: like the den of vice or red light district. And
Speaker 7: since they fixed it up, they tore down there. We
Speaker 7: had all these you know, facides on it, tore it off,
Speaker 7: and there's like the Old West asides and so now
Speaker 7: it's like where you go for you know, you take
Speaker 7: visitors to check out. But back then it was a
Speaker 7: real dangerous place where where homeless men got loaded out
Speaker 7: of their gorge. So they were drinking under the bridge
Speaker 7: and me the guy was going to give him a
Speaker 7: ride back to his ranche and he took him the
Speaker 7: wrong way and beat an inch of his life. After
Speaker 7: the police and the ambulance came, they didn't know but
Speaker 7: a few yards away from that guy was another victim
Speaker 7: named John Sanders, who was found just like an hour
Speaker 7: after the ambulance is all left. It's kind of you
Speaker 7: think about police and the way they do things back then.
Speaker 7: You would think that they would form a circle and
Speaker 7: you know, and secure the crime scene or anything. But
Speaker 7: you know, here's six seven feet away was another guy
Speaker 7: and they didn't even see him because of the tall
Speaker 7: grass and stuff. You know. So they find that guy
Speaker 7: and he was pretty messed up too, and but evidently
Speaker 7: he said that he bought about o wine and the
Speaker 7: next thing he remembers waking up in the hospital, he
Speaker 7: was really beating up the read guy, the first guy
Speaker 7: they found. And a couple of days later and that
Speaker 7: Sanders guy recovered and left Sacramento, and uh, you know,
Speaker 7: an other days, I find that very odd, just as
Speaker 7: a journalist that journalists wouldn't have you know, got a
Speaker 7: hold of them and given him a few drinks and
Speaker 7: find out his side of the story. But it wasn't
Speaker 7: like that in those days. So just the four days
Speaker 7: after Reading Sanders were attacked, Ramond Revez shows up not
Speaker 7: too far away from where the other crime scene was
Speaker 7: and he was already dead. While it was missing. He'd
Speaker 7: been in the water for a couple of days, some
Speaker 7: other bodies showed up. There's one this one of the
Speaker 7: john Does kind of became famous because this story. I
Speaker 7: heard of this story quite a while ago, like when
Speaker 7: I first moved to Sacramento, and it was written down
Speaker 7: in some websites and stuff like that. And this they found,
Speaker 7: along with this guy with a felt hat from L
Speaker 7: Style Shop on K Street, and you know, they tried
Speaker 7: their best to try to figure out where, you know,
Speaker 7: who this guy was, but they never could. The funny
Speaker 7: thing is that later on, maybe twenty years ago, L
Speaker 7: Style Shop was like a underground punk rock nightclub. So
Speaker 7: you know then when I found that, I was like, hey,
Speaker 7: L Style Shop. Oh so yeah. The newspapers had a
Speaker 7: pretty good d D with it. They called them the
Speaker 7: insane Slayer, the mad killer, the basher. They were always
Speaker 7: in competition for each other, the union and to be
Speaker 7: and the police said they mean it their top priority.
Speaker 7: But then again old Sacramento, Uh, during that time, just
Speaker 7: before that time, it was exposed that a bunch of
Speaker 7: police officers actually owned some of those buildings that were
Speaker 7: you know, whorehouses and illegal gambling joints and stuff. So
Speaker 7: the cops didn't really want to dig too much into
Speaker 7: their little money making area. Pearl Harbor happens and the
Speaker 7: guy disappears. Nobody dies after that. So there's always been
Speaker 7: this thought that this guy, because he was extremely strong,
Speaker 7: he was like a gorilla. He beat these people to death.
Speaker 7: And there's a big thought that he was a Air
Speaker 7: Force member, because Sacramento had two major Air Force bases
Speaker 7: on its north and south side, Matherfield and McAllen Field.
Speaker 7: McCallum Field is where the two Little Raiders planes were
Speaker 7: all outfitted and very major place. Mather was a big
Speaker 7: training base for navigators. And this guy disappeared and they
Speaker 7: never saw They thought maybe he was in the military,
Speaker 7: and when the war happened, he got transferred out. No
Speaker 7: one ever, It's a stop, just like that.
Speaker 8: He also say that other Jewish jurisdictions in Yuha County,
Speaker 8: Sutter and Sacramento Counties and Yolo also wanted to clear
Speaker 8: those cases. And you kind of questioned that so and
Speaker 8: what you saw was maybe a little bit baseless. What
Speaker 8: what did you see with tying those cases, those five
Speaker 8: other new ones to those other five.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the cases that I that I have down here
Speaker 7: are the ones that I could really nail down like
Speaker 7: the other ones were. You know, Yellow County is still
Speaker 7: a very rural county and Sutter County. Uh, they're all
Speaker 7: very uh you know even now they're kind of cowboy counties.
Speaker 7: And so they they cleared off their their their board
Speaker 7: with a lot of these floaters that they found that
Speaker 7: they were victims of the mad killers, so that they
Speaker 7: didn't have to uh investigate it anymore. They could clear
Speaker 7: it up as a case. I've been too involved in
Speaker 7: Californian crams to really especially in those days, to believe
Speaker 7: you know, police actions, because you know, back in those days,
Speaker 7: he became a police officer because you know, Uncle Joe's
Speaker 7: kid couldn't find a job after he got the army.
Speaker 7: You know, it was kind of a last resort job.
Speaker 7: It wasn't a career where he went to college for
Speaker 7: like it is now.
Speaker 8: Well, you can still have people with not the best
Speaker 8: intentions or motivations to join a police force too. So
Speaker 8: see some of that I think it depends. But yeah,
Speaker 8: things were much different, let's put it that way. Now
Speaker 8: you talk about the matter.
Speaker 7: We had nineteen fifty seven. Nineteen fifty seven murderers started
Speaker 7: to happened just out of the blue. Our thing is too,
Speaker 7: is that this guy could have been military and been
Speaker 7: transferred back to Sacramento. But then again, that's like a
Speaker 7: sixteen year, eighteen year app and that is about the
Speaker 7: average that you get in California for a homicide, like
Speaker 7: a second degree homicide murder case. So right, he might
Speaker 7: have been arrested for a completely different crime and since
Speaker 7: the proson for it. But in nineteen fifty seven, in March,
Speaker 7: Walter Wayne Eins, thirty seven year old dairy truck driver
Speaker 7: who was very conscious of this guy who's gotten never
Speaker 7: missed work, and all his customers loved him. He went
Speaker 7: missing on March eighth, nineteen fifty seven, and that's the
Speaker 7: time when things start melting around here and the rivers
Speaker 7: start getting a little wild and things start getting green
Speaker 7: by March and Sacramento, so he didn't show up for work.
Speaker 7: A couple of days later, they found his bran new
Speaker 7: pickup truck parked outside of Auburn, California, which is about
Speaker 7: forty miles up the American River and up by eighty two.
Speaker 7: This guy was not an outdoorsy guy. There was like
Speaker 7: no reason his family were just they were like, what
Speaker 7: would is, what would he do be? What would he
Speaker 7: be doing up there? You know, nineteen fifty seven, people
Speaker 7: weren't out hiking around in the woods like they do
Speaker 7: now or for the last thirty years or so. You know,
Speaker 7: that wasn't something that average people did back then. So
Speaker 7: on March thirtieth, almost like three weeks later, fisherman discovers
Speaker 7: his bloated, battered body in the American River about five
Speaker 7: miles downstream from this truck. And he had a crease
Speaker 7: in his forehead, and they, you know, didn't know what
Speaker 7: to do about. You know, it's like this a murderer,
Speaker 7: Is this a drowning? His wife received some mysterious phone calls.
Speaker 7: It said that the authorities now killed your husband and
Speaker 7: things like that, and she has changed her phone number. Then,
Speaker 7: in August fourth, Dwayne Darwood dow which can you believe
Speaker 7: that name? Darwood wown so he knew he actually knew Ams.
Speaker 7: They lived just a couple of blocks away from each other,
Speaker 7: and we're pretty close in the age. He's three nine
Speaker 7: year old salesman and he was seen cashing a check
Speaker 7: at a bottle shop and he was supposed to be
Speaker 7: going to church about a month month and a half later,
Speaker 7: they find him strangled in a remote area not too
Speaker 7: far from the American River. It was all wild back then,
Speaker 7: it was all just rachland. Now there's a lot of
Speaker 7: houses and things there and you know, subdivisions and roads
Speaker 7: and all that, but back then it was still very wild. Actually,
Speaker 7: where I live right now, just until nineteen sixty was
Speaker 7: hopfields in the entire area for miles and now it's
Speaker 7: like wall the wall houses. So he had been beaten
Speaker 7: at death. His skull larycs were fractured. Now I find
Speaker 7: this really odd. His wallet laid on the log and
Speaker 7: there's an empty bottle or wine bottle on top. Bit
Speaker 7: So for that long, no one, six weeks, no one
Speaker 7: even went around that area. I just find that so,
Speaker 7: you know, so different than what it is like now.
Speaker 7: And another thing, uh, there's no mention of them doing
Speaker 7: uh dusting for fingerprints on the wine bottle, which I
Speaker 7: found that. It's like, well there's another you know, cop misunderstanding.
Speaker 7: So then just a few weeks later, on September actually
Speaker 7: just three days after they found Dowed, Charles Schrader has
Speaker 7: an eighteen year old Coast Guard reservists and he he
Speaker 7: uh told his mom, He's gonna hitch like it's another
Speaker 7: part of town, northern part of the town called Real Linda.
Speaker 7: Uh see some friends and he was found his body
Speaker 7: naked in the American River next day, just not too
Speaker 7: far from the river. It's head was Bashkin So November ninth,
Speaker 7: Thomas O'Dell. He was a seventeen year old sailor from
Speaker 7: Yuba City. It's about thirty miles north of Sacramento. He
Speaker 7: joined the Navy to Sea of the World and he
Speaker 7: ended up being stationed at Treasure Island, which is just
Speaker 7: underneath the Bay Bridge in San Francisco. So he's like
Speaker 7: stationed in one hundred miles from where he grew up.
Speaker 7: Manga Zoo the world. He was found almost decapitated and
Speaker 7: naked in a ditch off Ardent Way, Yeah, two hundred
Speaker 7: feet from fair Oax Boulevard, which is now is like
Speaker 7: a total populated place. Back then it was field at Gus.
Speaker 7: He was killed with a meat cleaver and his spinal
Speaker 7: cord was severed at the base of his neck. Now
Speaker 7: he was found naked and then the police they said
Speaker 7: that these weren't sexual assaults. They stressed that in the
Speaker 7: paper and by the late fifties they could actually say
Speaker 7: stuff like that. But I was wondering, you know what
Speaker 7: happened here? The sailor, that Odell guy. He was all
Speaker 7: over town that day in Sacramento. People saw him all
Speaker 7: over the place, and it just made things really confusing
Speaker 7: and complicated for the police because they had so many
Speaker 7: places they had to run down, so many leads they
Speaker 7: had to go after, but they couldn't find out much more.
Speaker 7: He was seen with people that looked extremely different from
Speaker 7: each other, and there was no like one set person
Speaker 7: he was with. So on April twenty fourth, nineteen fifty eight,
Speaker 7: Mary Jokum spown their husband, Jake, he had a junk
Speaker 7: yard essen stopping them to get something on the way
Speaker 7: home from the store, and he got distracted, lost track
Speaker 7: of time, and when he drabbed home in his house,
Speaker 7: his wife was gone, the house was dark, and he
Speaker 7: wasn't He wasn't too perturbed. He drove to their favorite hangout,
Speaker 7: the Pioneer Club, which was a bucket of blood places.
Speaker 7: I had another chapter about a murder that happened in
Speaker 7: a year club. It was I've talked to some old
Speaker 7: timers and they were like, I wouldn't even go into
Speaker 7: that place, you know, and now it's like an overpass.
Speaker 7: It was like so evil they'd put an overpass over it. So,
Speaker 7: but she was over at that club with her with
Speaker 7: her brother in law eman a beer, and that place
Speaker 7: was it was like their local tavern. They had a
Speaker 7: very large extended family and they all bar hopped together
Speaker 7: and things. And so Jake saw she was there and
Speaker 7: she was safe and that, and he just went home,
Speaker 7: didn't think anything of it, and she wasn't home when
Speaker 7: he got up the next morning. He thought, well, you know,
Speaker 7: maybe she's at a friend's house, or maybe she's at
Speaker 7: you know, his sister's house or something like that. And
Speaker 7: she didn't call them or anything. So they had no kids.
Speaker 7: They were married for fifteen years and they had a
Speaker 7: pretty easy going relation ship. They liked to go camping
Speaker 7: and hunting and bowl together, and they really had their
Speaker 7: extended family. They really did a lot of stuff together,
Speaker 7: especially drink. So you know, they everybody in the family
Speaker 7: was like looking for it was like, wow, what happened.
Speaker 7: You know. Mary worked at a paint store too, and
Speaker 7: was like well liked and did a great job, and
Speaker 7: you know, like she was this you know, bar bar
Speaker 7: person really bad, you know, So he was driving around.
Speaker 7: He spent one weekend looking for when she was at.
Speaker 7: When she went there, she was wearing her hair and
Speaker 7: curlers and a scarf over had like they used to
Speaker 7: do back then, So it's not like she was out,
Speaker 7: you know, looking for a hot date or anything. So
Speaker 7: by five days later, Jake was ready to file missing
Speaker 7: report and the police showed up at his junk yard
Speaker 7: and they found her body. East Levee Road, which which
Speaker 7: is the only probably has the crow flies, five miles
Speaker 7: from from where they lived. It was an isolated lover's
Speaker 7: lane type place, and she was found with her throat
Speaker 7: slit and their underwear ripped off her skirt. She was
Speaker 7: obviously raped and stuff. Just a pretty bad mess. And
Speaker 7: she was also on vand stage as a decent Uh,
Speaker 7: she was decomposing pretty bad. That was in April too,
Speaker 7: which is it's starting to worm up there. No, that
Speaker 7: was in November. Yeah, and yeah, so she was a
Speaker 7: mess and Jacob really upset, you know, he's you know,
Speaker 7: you can't figure out anything. Woman that lived nearby said
Speaker 7: that she saw a dark and green, older model car
Speaker 7: sitting out there. But because it was a lover's lane place.
Speaker 7: She didn't pay much attention to it. Now, the mad
Speaker 7: Basher was also reported driving a like olive drab, older
Speaker 7: dan type thing, which makes you think military, right, So yeah,
Speaker 7: so they couldn't find a thing about it. Later on
Speaker 7: that year, some school kids found the charred wallet. We
Speaker 7: always have grass fires here, so that's not unusual, and
Speaker 7: it had money in it and some receipts and her
Speaker 7: driver's license and things, and there was a mystery they
Speaker 7: never did find. They never solved any of those crimes
Speaker 7: at all, those five And I find it very odd
Speaker 7: that I just stumbled across it myself as I was
Speaker 7: doing this research and put this together that I think
Speaker 7: that it was the same mad Basher from nineteen forty
Speaker 7: one and sixteen years gap between the murders. So either
Speaker 7: he was a life in the military and he's transferred
Speaker 7: because of World War Two coming on, and maybe he
Speaker 7: was transferred back towards the end of his career to
Speaker 7: the Sacramento which happens a lot. You get lustered out
Speaker 7: in Sacramento, San Francisco and stuff. Those older cars that
Speaker 7: were green could have been a military, might have been
Speaker 7: an MP or something. Like that, but no one has
Speaker 7: ever found No one has ever solved any of those crimes.
Speaker 7: Of either of the two sixteen year instances, they had
Speaker 7: a lot of common Six of the eight were middle
Speaker 7: aged men and the last two were sailors, and they
Speaker 7: were like in uniform, So he might have had some
Speaker 7: kind of thing against them, either because of the military
Speaker 7: or because they were sailors, or who knows, mean because
Speaker 7: they were young and dumb, and because he obviously hunted
Speaker 7: his prey. But I think Mary Yoakum, I think that
Speaker 7: was doing in because she's the only female involved in it,
Speaker 7: and she was like thirty six years old. I think
Speaker 7: that this guy like had a hatred for everyone, and
Speaker 7: I think him seeing her, the strong, independent woman walking
Speaker 7: to her car from the parking lot of the Pioneer Club,
Speaker 7: you know, hair up in curlers and you know, not
Speaker 7: all dressed up or anything, I think it might have
Speaker 7: might have done something to them to make them go
Speaker 7: off and kill her. But I think it's too too
Speaker 7: close that that she is part of the whole link
Speaker 7: with the other murders, and that happened sixty years ago.
Speaker 7: There's no way it would be a life these days.
Speaker 8: I found it interesting when you am not too questioned
Speaker 8: your connecting the two. But it just seems when you
Speaker 8: threw in Mary Yoakum and then you have the sailors,
Speaker 8: the young people, and then the guys that have some
Speaker 8: little bit of a connection, this would really drive up
Speaker 8: you know, not to give too much merit to profiling
Speaker 8: necessarily because everybody's in it realistic, but these are pretty
Speaker 8: varied motivations. If you have the woman and then you
Speaker 8: have you know, I mean, at least for profiling, I say, well,
Speaker 8: that would lead people into different conclusions, wouldn't it.
Speaker 7: I would think so. But because they happened so close
Speaker 7: together within a year, I think I see a pretty
Speaker 7: good connection there. And most of these people were also
Speaker 7: well half half of them were associated with the North
Speaker 7: side of Sacramento too, So perhaps he lived up in
Speaker 7: that area, or actually the north side of the base
Speaker 7: is the north side of the town is where McAllen
Speaker 7: Air Force Base was, and Mary Yoakum worked there during
Speaker 7: the war. So maybe you know she recognized them, or
Speaker 7: you know he recognized her, because that's how they founders,
Speaker 7: because their fingerprints are and file the military.
Speaker 8: And the connection with the American River. Let's talk about
Speaker 8: another case that we introduced in the introduction, the Renaissance
Speaker 8: murderer and Robert Nicholas and victims in nineteen sixty four
Speaker 8: and nineteen eighty five. This is a very very interesting
Speaker 8: guy we talked about in the introduction, and he's an
Speaker 8: educated guy. Tell us a little bit about Robert Nicholas.
Speaker 7: Robert Nicholas was a Sacramento guy, born and raised. He's intelligent,
Speaker 7: eccentric man. He had a bachelor's degree in psychology from
Speaker 7: Maolmamatta California State University and Sacramento and he worked for
Speaker 7: the Department Border Vehicles in sacramentals in state capital. So
Speaker 7: it's you know, good to get a state job. We
Speaker 7: have a highly educated workforce, and so you know, he
Speaker 7: took a job there. And uh before before he was
Speaker 7: in college, he was in real estate and he also
Speaker 7: worked at McAllen Air Base and been a social worker,
Speaker 7: so when he was also in the Air force too.
Speaker 7: He could never could never stick to one thing. He
Speaker 7: would get fascinated by a subject of religion or a
Speaker 7: political belief and he would learn everything about it and
Speaker 7: become radicalized with it, and then he'd get bored with
Speaker 7: it and leave it. Leave it aside and go on
Speaker 7: to his next kick. So the subjects he was obsessed
Speaker 7: with was military, aircraft, history, biology. He rejected his Catholic upbringing,
Speaker 7: became a communist, atheist, Marxist. Then he became a Nazi
Speaker 7: and start having a big racist uh ideas. His first
Speaker 7: wife was Norman Jean Laura, and they all lived downe
Speaker 7: the north side of town too. She got tired of
Speaker 7: she divorced a ma and a kid, and he paid
Speaker 7: his child's port and then everything could. He was deep
Speaker 7: down inside he wanted to have custody of his two
Speaker 7: kids that he had with her, and so he worked
Speaker 7: a couple of jobs, did all kinds of things to
Speaker 7: make more money just so that he can afford an
Speaker 7: attorneys to get more custody or to get total custody.
Speaker 7: So he ends up marrying this woman named Charlie's Morehouse
Speaker 7: and everyone called her Lisa. She was fifteen years old
Speaker 7: high school student when he got married, and they had
Speaker 7: one daughter named Wasssiti, and they lived in a pretty
Speaker 7: crappy apartment. It's still a crappy apartment. And he worked
Speaker 7: three jobs just to get money for his attorney and things.
Speaker 7: And in May of nineteen sixty four, his new wife,
Speaker 7: Lisa had enough. She wasn't see and she was still
Speaker 7: in high school. She was a senior in high school
Speaker 7: with a two year old baby, and she said she
Speaker 7: wouldn't move back home with her parents and stuff.
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Speaker 7: He took the understanding way and said, yeah, we could
Speaker 7: use a break. Whatever they were planning on going to
Speaker 7: Lake Tahoe for long planned weekends at least, well, that's
Speaker 7: not break our plans or anything. It's not like they
Speaker 7: were a man at each other. She just couldn't stand,
Speaker 7: you know, living with somebody who was at home and
Speaker 7: she was just a kid. You know, the really tiny apartment.
Speaker 7: So the next day, it was a Saturday, and Bob
Speaker 7: went to his first wife's, picked up the kids and
Speaker 7: said that he was going to take them to get
Speaker 7: their photographs with their with their step step daughter too.
Speaker 7: So she dressed up the kids in their best clothes
Speaker 7: and he drove away, all three of them, four of
Speaker 7: them altogether, three kids. They went to the toy store
Speaker 7: and spent ten bucks on him. Had a lot of
Speaker 7: money back back then for toys. You know, Frisbee was
Speaker 7: like sixty eight clves. So after they went out to
Speaker 7: eat and he got toys, they drove to the end
Speaker 7: of a dead end road not too far away from
Speaker 7: his inlaws. He opened the trunk and asked children to
Speaker 7: jump inside to find the key that he had lost.
Speaker 7: The kids jumped in there. He pulled out a thirty
Speaker 7: eight caliber revolver and shot each in the hat twice
Speaker 7: a little this one got four bullets because he had
Speaker 7: to he wanted to empty his gun twice. He shot him.
Speaker 7: All they had clothes trunk and went to Lake Tahoe
Speaker 7: and they drank and gambled and danced and went back
Speaker 7: to their motel room and early in the morning he
Speaker 7: got he had a panic attack. They took him to
Speaker 7: the hospital and he admitted to the police of what
Speaker 7: he had done, and there everyone was really shocked by this.
Speaker 7: He had three children. The guy shot his three children
Speaker 7: in the hat multiple times in the trunk and then
Speaker 7: he left the car abandoned, uh, just sitting there to
Speaker 7: be found. A pretty hideous crime and it really shook
Speaker 7: up the town a lot. So he uh a psychiatrist, Uh,
Speaker 7: there's you know, this is the usual riga memoran one
Speaker 7: and said he was insane and said he couldn't have
Speaker 7: been insane. But he had a jury. His jury was
Speaker 7: made up of eight father mothers, and four fathers of
Speaker 7: one single person on the jury that didn't have kids.
Speaker 7: They found them guilty, sentenced them to death, and he
Speaker 7: appealed to predict. In nineteen sixty seven, his sentence was
Speaker 7: reduced to light and then they got rid of the
Speaker 7: death penalty, and when nineteen seventy two for like eight
Speaker 7: nine years, and they parrolled him in nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 7: which is just unbelievable ten years. He got ten years
Speaker 7: killing three children. Yeah, so yeah, it's just you know, outrageous.
Speaker 7: So he gets out of prison and he's stalking his
Speaker 7: second wife, Lisa. She had gotten remarried and took her
Speaker 7: husband's name and everything. They had four kids, and by
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty five she was a stream from her husband
Speaker 7: and they live in an apartment with other kids. The
Speaker 7: kids were like three sixteen, and from all reports, she
Speaker 7: was just a person who would go out of her way.
Speaker 7: She was a very religious person, and she would have
Speaker 7: prayer sessions in her house from people in her or
Speaker 7: in her apartment, from people that were just down their
Speaker 7: luck or whatever human bad in her apartment building. Somebody
Speaker 7: needed to ride, she'd give him a ride. And then
Speaker 7: this is what got her. So Nicholas got this self
Speaker 7: admitted alcoholic Pasquale bean Tony Lanini, and they asked him.
Speaker 7: He asked her to set up a meeting with her
Speaker 7: and gave him thirty dollars in some free booze. So
Speaker 7: this alcoholic guy, he asked Lisa if he can help
Speaker 7: her help him move, and she was like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 7: So she met him in front of a grocery store
Speaker 7: at eleven am and she had her son in the
Speaker 7: back seat. He was only three years old. So he
Speaker 7: directed her to drive down this alley and told her
Speaker 7: to stop behind his apartment building, and he got out
Speaker 7: and left, and Nicholas comes pulling in, blocks her car,
Speaker 7: gets out and starts punching her and the little kids
Speaker 7: in the back seat just screaming, you know. And Nicrow stopped,
Speaker 7: went back to his car, got a gun and fired
Speaker 7: two shots in chairs and killed her. First shot killed her,
Speaker 7: and she lived long enough to tell the police that
Speaker 7: it was her ex husband and shot her. And they
Speaker 7: arrested the DN Tony Lino within twenty four hours. And
Speaker 7: he's slaying like a bird. Of course, he was a pathy.
Speaker 7: He didn't know that she was gonna he was gonna
Speaker 7: murder her. He just thought that he wanted to talk
Speaker 7: to her, so he did that little trick there. So
Speaker 7: Nicholas he ends up on the FBI Tenmost Wanted lest
Speaker 7: He's gone for oh about a couple of months, about
Speaker 7: six six months. They find them in New York, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 7: He fought exhibition all the way. They brought him back
Speaker 7: to Sacramento. They had to move the trial to Santa
Speaker 7: Clair County, which is down San Jose, And they said
Speaker 7: it was a case called the nationwide uproar with law
Speaker 7: and order types and They used him as an example
Speaker 7: of people being soft on criminals, you know, and in
Speaker 7: one case this is where they actually were soft toned
Speaker 7: criminal that guys should have never been allowed out of
Speaker 7: prison ever. So yeah, the truth thought came out, and
Speaker 7: it's true. There were a couple of witnesses. There's a
Speaker 7: father and son who were in their backyard like cleaning weeds,
Speaker 7: and they witnessed the whole thing too. The police found
Speaker 7: dozens of notebooks in his apartment, rambling essays about how
Speaker 7: he planned and killing both Lisa and and Norman Jean Laura,
Speaker 7: his first wife in as well as a married couple
Speaker 7: that he believed had turned them in for film abroad.
Speaker 7: He was a steaming angry man. He had went to
Speaker 7: his daughter's grave and daughter Heidi's graves, and he was
Speaker 7: unimpressed with her tombstone. He had given his her mother
Speaker 7: five thousand dollars. He wanted all his children buried together.
Speaker 7: But you know, that's that's how out of touch he was,
Speaker 7: you know, with this reality. And yeah, he wrote all
Speaker 7: over the place in his books, in the world around
Speaker 7: me as a jungle, I can trust no one, rely on,
Speaker 7: no one confide, and no one I am alone in
Speaker 7: my struggle against the world. Abandoned, betrayed, and brutalized. Is
Speaker 7: it any wonder I am a barbarian that I am? Sure? Boy?
Speaker 7: So yeah, Yeah, he got he got found guilty and
Speaker 7: he died in prison seventy one. He died in nineteen
Speaker 7: or two thousand and three, eighteen years after he married Lisa,
Speaker 7: or after he murdered Lisa in thirty nine years after
Speaker 7: he murdered his three children. Yeah, I agree with you
Speaker 7: about the world that being there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, poor people. Let's talk about another bizarre story again,
Speaker 8: very visual. You call it The Ladies Man June twelfth,
Speaker 8: nineteen forty eight. Victim December fourteenth, nineteen forty eight in Brighton,
Speaker 8: Victoriano Corrals and his victims Alberta Gomez and Maria Puldo.
Speaker 8: And you start in February nineteen forty six, and a
Speaker 8: family event that's interrupted by the oldest daughter. Tell us
Speaker 8: what his daughter Angela or his wife Angela and the
Speaker 8: daughters are seeing on February nineteen forty six, what they avoid.
Speaker 7: As we Yeah, in nineteen forty six he was married
Speaker 7: to whom in Angelina, they had six kids already, and
Speaker 7: in February nineteen forty six. He was choked. He was
Speaker 7: choking Angelina to death in their home. His oldest daughter
Speaker 7: stepped in and stopped it, and he would have definitely
Speaker 7: murdered her if she wouldn't have done it. And Angelina
Speaker 7: has packed up all our kids and left. They later
Speaker 7: found out she was living on a farm outside of Bakersfield.
Speaker 7: So she went a good, you know, three hundred miles
Speaker 7: to get away from this guy. So he moved to Brighton,
Speaker 7: which right now is California State University, Sacramento. Beautiful campus,
Speaker 7: you know, just like you'd see anywhere, you know, stadiums
Speaker 7: and all that, lots of trees, But in nineteen forty eight,
Speaker 7: it was kind of like where people went to burn
Speaker 7: their garbage and the dump things in The mean line
Speaker 7: to Southern California for the Union Southern PACIFICA goes right
Speaker 7: through there. It's a mejor railroad line. Back then, they
Speaker 7: had steam engines, so there's flints to smoke and sit
Speaker 7: and dirt all over the place. It was not even
Speaker 7: it wasn't even that back then. It wasn't even that
Speaker 7: far out of Sacramento, but it seemed like a world away.
Speaker 7: It was extramely about few miles from where I live
Speaker 7: right now. So back then it was just like shacks
Speaker 7: and mud and people had gardens and you know, probably
Speaker 7: trailers and just whatever. It was this kind of halphazard place,
Speaker 7: some light industry things like that. He lived in a
Speaker 7: shack that the newspapers described as a garage, and he
Speaker 7: was about half a mile from the American River. And
Speaker 7: he worked as a farm labor dishwasher. He worked at
Speaker 7: a cement pipe factory. He got lonely, so he went
Speaker 7: back to his hometown Ira Puto, Mexico, which is south
Speaker 7: of Mexico City. It's quite quite a distance, and he
Speaker 7: sweet talked a local woman there twenty eight euro of
Speaker 7: Berti Komas and then coming back to Sacramento to live
Speaker 7: with them. He told her lies that he was, you know,
Speaker 7: doing good and he had his own farm and blah
Speaker 7: blah blah. You know. So in June nineteen forty eight,
Speaker 7: he smuggled her over the border near Callexico, California, which
Speaker 7: is famous now for well now for the border things
Speaker 7: that are happening, but also because of that band Calelexico's
Speaker 7: one of my favorite bands. You ever heard them? Great band?
Speaker 8: Yes, so.
Speaker 7: After living with him for a few days, she knew
Speaker 7: she had made a terrible mistake, and she said she
Speaker 7: was going to leave him. And he beat her brains
Speaker 7: out of a hammer, chopped off her head, arms and lakes,
Speaker 7: and then wrapped them up, walked me two trips to
Speaker 7: the American River to dump her body, unless that happened
Speaker 7: at night. But he wrapped her torso an electric blanket
Speaker 7: and used the cord as a rope, and that was
Speaker 7: like springtime June. There's no dams on the river back then,
Speaker 7: so the American River is right and high, and the
Speaker 7: Sacramento River was Her body washed up twenty five miles downstream.
Speaker 7: A couple of weeks later. The other body parts they
Speaker 7: didn't find. So after a few months, you know, they
Speaker 7: find the body and they were like, oh, what's his body?
Speaker 7: You know see that a lot, especially back then, you know,
Speaker 7: it's like body found in slough, body founding river. So
Speaker 7: a few months later we got tired of living alone.
Speaker 7: He returned to his hometown, found another female to bring back,
Speaker 7: and she was in her twenties, Maria Pordo, and he
Speaker 7: said that she was a successful man and come to
Speaker 7: me to Sacramento and so she did. They cross the
Speaker 7: border near Cawlexico. They ran to the Sacramento and instead
Speaker 7: of going Rachel his house like he did the first time,
Speaker 7: they seated at a hotel down in the west end
Speaker 7: of Sacramento, which was near Folk sac and the west
Speaker 7: end was where all the nightclubs were and things. It
Speaker 7: was destroyed when they put I five through the town.
Speaker 7: They put it right through that neighborhood and destroyed it.
Speaker 7: So they stayed there for a few days, where he
Speaker 7: acted like he was rich and he was spending money,
Speaker 7: so they hired a cab. A couple of days later,
Speaker 7: they took a cab back to Breton, and when she
Speaker 7: saw the neighborhood, she recoiled. This according to the cab driver,
Speaker 7: she got really angry and she saw where she was
Speaker 7: where they were living. They actually had a physical fight
Speaker 7: while they were getting out of the car and dragged
Speaker 7: her into his house and he killed her right away.
Speaker 7: Took the same hammer and over the head, grabbed his
Speaker 7: axe again, chopped up her head, legs, arms, and took
Speaker 7: two trips back to the river, tossed her body parts
Speaker 7: in there, and then he went to sleep. Next day
Speaker 7: he cleaned up the place and burned a mattress. So
Speaker 7: her body was found pretty quickly and met too far away,
Speaker 7: like boy, let's say half a mile from where he
Speaker 7: dumped her, right by the Ice H Street bridge. And
Speaker 7: the other types of revealed that she was alive when
Speaker 7: she had decapitated. So they were wondering if there's a
Speaker 7: connection with the other torso that they found. There was
Speaker 7: a woman that lived. She was a neighbor of Corrales
Speaker 7: Ira Anderson, and she really she's pretty good. Interviews in
Speaker 7: the papers and stuff, and her picture and stuff. She
Speaker 7: kind of looked like a nineteen forties old pitty like
Speaker 7: she had happened a movie and stuff, and she had
Speaker 7: heard her girlfriends told her about, well, aren't you feel
Speaker 7: bad about all the murders happening around here? She was like,
Speaker 7: she didn't know, and and they hurt she. They told her,
Speaker 7: and she remembered seeing Carls beating up the woman and
Speaker 7: burning the mattress and they never saw her again. And
Speaker 7: he said that, oh, she won't be here for too long,
Speaker 7: you know, And she said, oh, what have you afraid?
Speaker 7: She's not here anymore? So she said, you know, she said,
Speaker 7: she never saw these women leave the company. She saw
Speaker 7: them go in, and she she was afraid of you know,
Speaker 7: if they didn't find the evidence, and she'd be living
Speaker 7: next door to this guy, you know. So she was
Speaker 7: very careful about it that she did tell the police
Speaker 7: and they went and they discovered the bloody double bladed axe,
Speaker 7: six inch knife on the table. Everything is just sad
Speaker 7: blood resid do on it. And they took them downtown
Speaker 7: and dragged the river and they found the rest of Burdeaux.
Speaker 7: They found her head, she had her hair was still
Speaker 7: had a ribbon tied in it and everything. And he
Speaker 7: pleaded that guilty and ended up getting charged with a
Speaker 7: second degree two canceled second degree murder and found a
Speaker 7: guilty sentence inm to death and he walked calmly into
Speaker 7: the the gas chamber. No one claimed his body when
Speaker 7: his wife was when he checked down his wife after
Speaker 7: they found out as sim she was still terrified of
Speaker 7: the guy. Wow, So here you talk about no right, oh,
Speaker 7: go ahead, No, I'm done with that one.
Speaker 8: But okay, you include in this and you a few
Speaker 8: of the stories you talk about that likely the confessions
Speaker 8: that some of these people make in some of these
Speaker 8: stories were pre Miranda rights era. What are you saying
Speaker 8: there and what do you say?
Speaker 7: Well, the cops had things that they could do to
Speaker 7: get a confession out of somebody, Slapping them up, you know,
Speaker 7: threatening them, interviewing them for hours and hours. You know,
Speaker 7: the old phone book, get beat with the phone book.
Speaker 7: You know, those guys knew where to hit you and stuff.
Speaker 7: You know. For sometimes it worked, obviously, but you know
Speaker 7: a lot of times somebody just confessed because they didn't
Speaker 7: want to get beaten anymore. I mean, so, yeah, you
Speaker 7: always have to be a little a little suspicious before,
Speaker 7: like nineteen sixty four when they said that they got
Speaker 7: a confession out of them after a certain amount of
Speaker 7: time or something.
Speaker 8: M Yeah, I'd like to talk about another story that
Speaker 8: you have included, and I might may pronounce this, mispronounce
Speaker 8: this Asian auto mace horrival, Like maybe you can tell
Speaker 8: us what that was, consolation is and this is in
Speaker 8: April twenty eighth, nineteen fifty, and this victim is Dolinda
Speaker 8: Montoya Diez.
Speaker 7: Yes, tell us what says ado mass horrible, the murder
Speaker 7: most horrid. That's what I'm starting to get at. But
Speaker 7: that's as close as I can get. Is the this was,
Speaker 7: this is one of the most serious cases. And again,
Speaker 7: you know, I've been getting of shocked at that I did.
Speaker 7: I never heard of like these cases because some of
Speaker 7: them are you know, just like the last one. It's like,
Speaker 7: how could that be forgotten? But they, you know, after
Speaker 7: sixty years, they are forgotten. And this one happened seventy
Speaker 7: years ago. Uh, Delinda. She was a young woman, married, beautiful,
Speaker 7: just beautiful. She was twenty two years old, five foot one,
Speaker 7: you know, one hundred and ten pounds, just a little thing,
Speaker 7: and she worked at a packing company which is now
Speaker 7: I five goes right to the middle of it. But
Speaker 7: on April twenty eighth, nineteen fifty, which is my birthday,
Speaker 7: actually eight years later, where she worked, they got a
Speaker 7: phone call and this guy said, this is Nick Diaz.
Speaker 7: I want to talk to my wife. And they said, well,
Speaker 7: she's on the line right now, but we'll leave a
Speaker 7: message for and she'll call you, you know, when she
Speaker 7: gets her break. And he said, tell her he's been
Speaker 7: a murder in her home and for her to come
Speaker 7: back home right away. So they thought, well, okay, well
Speaker 7: go tell her that. So when she got the message,
Speaker 7: she appeared startled and immediately left. She ran out, ran
Speaker 7: out the door, and was never seen again. The night
Speaker 7: watchman guy was last one to see, said about midnight,
Speaker 7: her husband Nick, was out at a bar and they
Speaker 7: bumped into a coworker of hers and he says, hey,
Speaker 7: how are things going. You know, Delanna? You know we
Speaker 7: heard there was something happened at home, and he was like, well,
Speaker 7: you know, what are you talking about. There's nothing going on.
Speaker 7: And then he thought, well, her mother was sick, and
Speaker 7: maybe she got a call from her sister brother saying,
Speaker 7: you know, mom's really sick, you better come home. And
Speaker 7: her parents lived in what's now real suburban Sacramento, but
Speaker 7: back then it was pretty real. So he just thought, well,
Speaker 7: she obviously just ran off to her months, you know,
Speaker 7: and it was late already. It was after midnight when
Speaker 7: he found out, so she wasn't home. He just thought, oh,
Speaker 7: I'll just call in the morning because it's obviously who she is.
Speaker 7: She's been a close knit family, you know, Mexicans. They've
Speaker 7: been in the country about ten years. She had like
Speaker 7: eight brothers and sisters and stuff. So he called there
Speaker 7: when in the morning and they said, oh, she didn't
Speaker 7: she didn't come here at all or anything. So he
Speaker 7: went to the police, and the police handled it pretty quietly.
Speaker 7: They thought, you know, maybe it was a marital spat
Speaker 7: or something, and there wasn't any leads though. They were like,
Speaker 7: this is very odd and they you know, the guard
Speaker 7: was the last person to see her leave. It's her
Speaker 7: description is she had long, dark haired green eyes, stood
Speaker 7: five to two with one hundred and twenty five pounds,
Speaker 7: and when she left she was wearing a red flowered bandana,
Speaker 7: a black skirt, yellow sweater, and a short dark green jacket.
Speaker 7: Pretty pretty stylish even today, you know, especially for going
Speaker 7: to work. So those two had been married for a
Speaker 7: couple of years. When they first got married, they moved
Speaker 7: to San Jose, but they got tired of the crime.
Speaker 7: Their their apartment was attempted to be broken in a
Speaker 7: couple of times, so they has moved back to Sacramento
Speaker 7: where their family was. Anyways, they lived downtown. As really nothing,
Speaker 7: you know, they were just a married couple. Was anything different.
Speaker 7: They were Catholics and you know, they celebrated the things
Speaker 7: together and then so the police couldn't find out anything
Speaker 7: about it. They they questioned the as or husband because
Speaker 7: you know, they always figure that it's going to be
Speaker 7: the husband that kills her. And they even had you
Speaker 7: know Brunning, an inspector from from Berkeley, the famous pop
Speaker 7: Elbert uh Raydal who invented a bunch of the techniques
Speaker 7: that police use to look for clues and things. He
Speaker 7: was he was not, you know, he was not the person.
Speaker 7: So at the same time, the women at the packing plant,
Speaker 7: you know, they're all edgy because you know, one of
Speaker 7: their coworkers got murdered, and so they started walking groups
Speaker 7: after work. You know, they got off working like late
Speaker 7: at night. So they started walking in groups, and onetime
Speaker 7: some guy came up and uh told this one woman
Speaker 7: to get in their car, and these women like chased
Speaker 7: the guy off or when they're lunch buckets and stuff
Speaker 7: that the guy was. What happened was actually funnier than
Speaker 7: what I wrote, you know, but what really happened, it
Speaker 7: was like they were like, now I'm going to take
Speaker 7: any youth from that guy. So, you know, they tried,
Speaker 7: they checked out everything. They could not find anything, any
Speaker 7: clues why she would disappear. Her husband thought that she
Speaker 7: had been abducted and raped, and that she was with
Speaker 7: her Catholic guilt and old world sensibilities that she was
Speaker 7: embarrassed to come back home. But on November twentieth, nineteen fifty,
Speaker 7: they found two teenagers were pheasant huntings in the south
Speaker 7: side of town and they found her remains. She was
Speaker 7: pretty much a skeleton with some skin and hair on it.
Speaker 7: She was killed unknown location and then dumped in the field.
Speaker 7: They'd dragged her. There's still evidence of her getting dragged
Speaker 7: from the car about twenty feet and thrown face down
Speaker 7: into the tall grass. And she had skull fracture from
Speaker 7: a single blow of a blunt instrument. She had some
Speaker 7: rings on they she was identified by dental records and
Speaker 7: she had just recently gone to the dentist before she disappeared.
Speaker 7: They had never caught the people that did this, and
Speaker 7: they had no idea, you know that it wasn't like
Speaker 7: her husband or her or their families were involved in
Speaker 7: any kind of criminal endeavors, you know, where like maybe
Speaker 7: they'd say like, oh, well, this is the revenge saying
Speaker 7: or something, nothing like that. She was it was just
Speaker 7: out of the plow as if they were like, uh,
Speaker 7: somebody like stalked her, you know, and saw her as
Speaker 7: a target. You know, she's just she's just a you know,
Speaker 7: vegetable packer, lettuce pack her in a factory. You know this.
Speaker 7: One woman pained a few years later that she knew
Speaker 7: right around that time she had been in some business
Speaker 7: and she saw in the back room there was a
Speaker 7: naked woman, unconscious laying back there and a couple of men,
Speaker 7: and turned out that she had been in the mental hospital.
Speaker 7: And she said that the doctors wouldn't believe her either,
Speaker 7: But then her mother came out and said that, you know,
Speaker 7: she had she'd been in and out of mental hostels
Speaker 7: all her life. The cops went and checked out the guy,
Speaker 7: and everything cleared out. They never found out a thing,
Speaker 7: even with the FBI involved, they never found out who
Speaker 7: murdered that Linda Daaz.
Speaker 8: What I found, just just a little bit. I want
Speaker 8: to ask this question is that it seemed odd that
Speaker 8: when he received the information from the worker, that the
Speaker 8: worker hadn't conveyed to him the urgency or even the men,
Speaker 8: even the gist of the message that was given to
Speaker 8: his wife de Linda, so that she took off from work,
Speaker 8: that the worker would have conveyed not an the gist
Speaker 8: of that message to him. I just thought it was
Speaker 8: odd that he wouldn't do that, because certainly if he
Speaker 8: would have, then he wouldn't have concluded that, well, maybe
Speaker 8: she went to her mother's and maybe she didn't leave
Speaker 8: a note, and maybe she didn't take anything with her.
Speaker 8: And then his reason when he said, well, I think
Speaker 8: maybe she'd been sexually assaulted and she was ashamed, and
Speaker 8: so maybe she would stay away and not want to
Speaker 8: see her parents. I don't know. Today. If I was
Speaker 8: a law enforcement i'd go, we better sit this guy
Speaker 8: down because that kind of language of ashamed, and I
Speaker 8: don't know, it just seems like not much of a theory,
Speaker 8: but in very interesting coming from the husband.
Speaker 7: I agree. And he had also brought in attorney with him,
Speaker 7: which was smart. Everybody should always bring in the turney
Speaker 7: with him. But if he hadn't brought the attorney with him,
Speaker 7: he could have faced a different type of questioning altogether.
Speaker 7: You know that maybe he would have, But I agree,
Speaker 7: I think that he was involved, Probably not, maybe not,
Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't know if the guy's still alive.
Speaker 7: I guess he would be about eighty five now. But yeah,
Speaker 7: just does seem weird that you were she was which
Speaker 7: direction she was going to go and did they did
Speaker 7: they know her? Did they pull up in a car
Speaker 7: and say, Delinda, come on, they'll take you there. We're
Speaker 7: going to go to the hospital or whatever and peeled
Speaker 7: off and and yeah. And no one knows how long
Speaker 7: she was held before she was murdered or which you know.
Speaker 7: But I agree her husband was a little too nonchalant
Speaker 7: about the whole things.
Speaker 8: Like I said, I'd like to I'd like to know more,
Speaker 8: just in terms of what exactly was said to him.
Speaker 8: Like I said, I find it hard to believe that
Speaker 8: people that would mention it, Hey, listen, what's the result
Speaker 8: of what happened with your wife, but then not convey
Speaker 8: the right message at all, only convey half of it,
Speaker 8: or she left for some reason. Wow, I don't. I
Speaker 8: just find it odd. As a amateur sleuth, I would
Speaker 8: I would be looking at that man and I would
Speaker 8: want to know more information. So very very interesting and yeah,
Speaker 8: very very very mysterious and suspicious. How again, like you
Speaker 8: talk about how the police acted back in the day,
Speaker 8: and then the disort of incomplete information that can be
Speaker 8: found sometimes in how this was just incredibly just like
Speaker 8: you say, parole after ten years, even it's hard to
Speaker 8: fathom how they've justified that. So incredible, David.
Speaker 7: You.
Speaker 8: Have all of these stories. How many stories do you
Speaker 8: have included in this book Forgotten Sacramento Murders.
Speaker 7: I think there's thirty eight stories in there, and I
Speaker 7: only picked them from nineteen forty to nineteen seventy six
Speaker 7: because I wanted them to be the forgotten stories. You know,
Speaker 7: nineteen seventy six was forty something years ago. Yeah. I
Speaker 7: talked to some people who are my age, who were
Speaker 7: you know, eighteen nineteen with it. Some of the later
Speaker 7: stories happened and they didn't even remember it, like a
Speaker 7: you know, a police officer was killed in nineteen seventy
Speaker 7: six in a newspaper. It was page three news in
Speaker 7: our local newspaper. Yeah, like it, like it happens every
Speaker 7: day or something. You know, it's like wow, because you
Speaker 7: would think that would be his front page news now
Speaker 7: when it happens across the country.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yes, And you know, you have all of these cases.
Speaker 8: What we didn't get into was the again the unsolved
Speaker 8: double murder of grocery store clerks Philip Latimer and Michael
Speaker 8: mccandalis very and very very interesting case. And then just
Speaker 8: another the again less interest in victims, the hobo Lloyd
Speaker 8: Gomez murdering eight men in hobo camps up and down
Speaker 8: the Central Valley, and original Boogie Man in nineteen fifty six,
Speaker 8: in a story that seems to circulate everywhere, a young
Speaker 8: boy in the downtown movie theater. We all all have.
Speaker 8: It seems like it's occurred everywhere, but this is the
Speaker 8: original story. So I want to thank you very much
Speaker 8: for coming on and talking about Forgotten Sacramento Murders. For
Speaker 8: those that might want to take a look at the
Speaker 8: other two crime books that you have. Can you tell
Speaker 8: us about website or Facebook page that you might have.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I have a Facebook page, just David Coltzik author page.
Speaker 7: My other books are still in print and still available.
Speaker 7: They were on Craven Street Books. California's Deadliest Woman was
Speaker 7: my last one. California's replaced The Nuts Death in California
Speaker 7: and California Justice shootouts, lynching's and assassinations in the Golden State.
Speaker 7: I found my knies, you.
Speaker 8: Know, absolutely, absolutely, you certainly have. I want to thank
Speaker 8: you very much for coming on and telling us just
Speaker 8: a few of the stories here in Forgotten Sacramento Murders.
Speaker 8: It's always a pleasure, David. Thank you very much and
Speaker 8: hope to talk to you again real soon. You have
Speaker 8: a great night, thank you.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much too. It's always the other.
Speaker 8: Good night David. Thank you.
Speaker 7: Nic