1 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:23,399 Speaker 1: I'm married to a buncle pop. Oh. 2 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: Oh, we got better to come. 3 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,039 Speaker 1: Joined in a subway shop. 4 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:42,119 Speaker 2: Oh oh, I'm married to a buncle pop. Oh, by 5 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,280 the man's mats. 6 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: They come to me through a tube. My whole life 7 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,880 it's been watching on a tube. 8 00:00:54,359 --> 00:01:24,439 Speaker 2: Whoa oh oh oh. 9 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: We got weard a courtius been a subway shop. 10 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:26,719 Speaker 2: Oh we got wed at Curtis in a subway shop. 11 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:36,079 Oh we got wet courtaus be in a subway shop. 12 00:01:36,959 --> 00:02:16,479 Speaker 1: Oh oh h I got married to a fucko pap. Whoa, 13 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:24,879 we got ready come joint in the subway shop. For 14 00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:39,520 I'm married to a funco pap. Whoa I imagine made 15 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,800 Rosie come to me through tube? Who like the stick 16 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,360 watching on the two whoa, whoa. 17 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: Over a boding joy to see the subway shop. 18 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 4: O we got waiting for the sad subway shop. Oh 19 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:23,759 m hm, oh, I'm married to a phone cap. We 20 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,079 got ready, we got joined in a subway shop. 21 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:34,519 Speaker 1: Right, listen the roads. They come to me through the 22 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,600 two nights in the roads. They come to me through 23 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:49,560 this hanto bunco phone call. Whoa bunco the bunk? Oh 24 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,920 oh I got married, I got married to my punk 25 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,720 go papa. We got ready. We got joined in a 26 00:04:58,839 --> 00:04:59,680 subway shop. 27 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 5: Well, phone call love, phone call love, I'm mappy to 28 00:05:50,519 --> 00:05:51,240 my phone. 29 00:05:51,319 --> 00:06:00,199 Speaker 1: Do we got wedded? Come join in the subway shop. Oh, 30 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,519 I'm mappy married to a funk. Go boo. 31 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 6: We got joined cords in the subway shop. Vitamins and biscuits, 32 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,000 some minerals to come and be through it to the 33 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,240 holy man watching on the two. 34 00:06:25,079 --> 00:06:42,439 Speaker 7: Whoa, Oh, I'm happy to my funk, go boo. 35 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,759 Speaker 1: We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shopping. 36 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 8: So where do we get to the Bible from? 37 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,519 Speaker 9: Did you even read the cannons? 38 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,959 Speaker 1: There is only one church. You are in din occult. 39 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:17,319 Speaker 5: You're a gobbling a demon, a bull merchard you saw mean? 40 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:22,199 Speaker 1: I'm your dude? Is this your person? Webs? 41 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,279 Speaker 10: I need a gender jew? 42 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: Can't taking these little to yours? 43 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 8: On your dude? 44 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: You one plus one plus one equal free. It comes 45 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:41,279 from a dog tree. Why do you pray eat dead people? 46 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:52,720 The traditions a madden you? Heretic on your dude? 47 00:07:53,759 --> 00:07:54,759 Speaker 11: Is this your person? 48 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,079 Speaker 1: Webs? 49 00:07:57,959 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 9: I need a gender jew? 50 00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: Tickets little to your soul boys on your dude? 51 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 12: What's your pistic justification? 52 00:08:10,199 --> 00:08:11,439 Speaker 8: Circular and you are. 53 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:19,079 Speaker 13: Too. 54 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: And the monkey you bud off in that tree? What 55 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:46,320 you doing up there? Why you stand? Why you run 56 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,960 it from them? 57 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 14: Re bad? 58 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: You ran mom and to and from me? 59 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:09,279 Speaker 15: That del the monkey, female monkeys with them bananas between 60 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:13,919 the trees, hanging down upside down. 61 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:15,919 Speaker 1: Found smart. 62 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 9: We're making it out of the trees with this one. Boys, 63 00:09:29,159 --> 00:09:32,720 What you doing to me? Dela monkey? 64 00:09:34,960 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 10: Makey mmmm? 65 00:10:08,759 --> 00:10:11,639 Speaker 9: Put your diddy oils in the microwave right now, because 66 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,600 it's about to get live, get it warmed up. 67 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: Till a monkey? 68 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 8: What do it to me? 69 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: Tal it deal a monkey? Whoa huh? 70 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 9: They ended too quick? What the heck? Do we have 71 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,440 any more bangers to get you all ready? What's up? Welcome? 72 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,960 We're already got six hundred live right now. What's a 73 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,120 welcome all of y'all, six hundred chat nerds to the chat. 74 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,000 It's been a minute. It's been a minute since we 75 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,639 had an open debate. And I always like to mix 76 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,159 it up. I always like to throw a curveball. I 77 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,600 hope you put your microwave diddy oil on thirty seconds, 78 00:11:06,039 --> 00:11:10,759 got a nice and warmed up because it's about to 79 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,039 get live. It's about get hypes about to get crazy 80 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:16,840 up in here. I don't know what to expect. Quasimoto. 81 00:11:17,919 --> 00:11:21,320 That's right, everybody forgotten Quasimoto. We got one last song 82 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,759 before we kick it off. That's this is a lesser 83 00:11:24,879 --> 00:11:34,120 known be hit by dire mode aka young Boomer Jong Boomer. Yeah, 84 00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:35,080 y'all feel it. 85 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 16: Quas in modo. Quas it quasi quas in modo. Gun lots, 86 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:56,240 bitch is calling me on my mobo Quasi modo our 87 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:03,360 gutten natural flesh patch tracks for my move over. I 88 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:12,960 live life crossing Modo. My bitches be calling me nothing Modeo. 89 00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:18,720 You don't even understand this. 90 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 9: Float over, float over. 91 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:28,039 Speaker 15: When I get older, will I still have an f club. 92 00:12:27,919 --> 00:12:33,879 Speaker 9: Shoulder I got. I got tangled in Modo. 93 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,279 Speaker 16: High school kids making fun of me? You call me 94 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,120 played over on this back part right here, This is 95 00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:52,120 the part flo cousin Modo. I'm up in my castle. 96 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:55,159 It's very dank. 97 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,519 Speaker 9: I found that I found a hump backed chicken. 98 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,879 Speaker 1: She was stank on it. A quasi modo. 99 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 9: Looking for a quasi modo. Ho was in modo. 100 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 17: You don't even know what it's like with a little 101 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:29,919 bitty friend on your back like this ragion. I got 102 00:13:29,919 --> 00:13:37,399 a little brother on my shoulder, Quasim Moldo. I just 103 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,919 smile a with modified Lamboo. 104 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:44,159 Speaker 9: So that I can drive in a Wizard. He had 105 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,720 to buy a modified Lambeau because of his humpback. Did 106 00:13:47,759 --> 00:13:51,039 y'all understand that? Did anybody get chutched them bars? By 107 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,840 the way, I spit that whole track as always ad 108 00:13:57,039 --> 00:14:03,360 hoc and prov baby. Everything we do music wise is improv. 109 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,440 That's the amazing part of cringe core. When dire Mode 110 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,679 steps up to the mic, you know you're about to 111 00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:16,519 get some freestyle fire. It's all freestyle, that's all roll 112 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:24,039 over all right, I'm you dude. We're about to make 113 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:29,240 it out the trees with that Mott Dylon monkey hit. Yeah. Now, 114 00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:32,759 a couple of these I have to admit. My original 115 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:38,200 tracks were then remixed via the creativity of our friends 116 00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:40,639 out there. Shout out to Amid the Ruins fourteen fifty three, 117 00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:43,759 who did most of the dire Wave tracks. But we 118 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,240 also have new friends who've been remixing, putting out some bangers, 119 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,720 putting out some hot tracks, also remixed via AI. Well, 120 00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:56,200 this one is the slow Boy, Chopped and Screwed mix. 121 00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:59,000 So I hope y'all enjoy Quasi mode. I thought Quasi 122 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,799 Modo was a It was a good cringe court head. 123 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,799 It didn't pop off, you know, like the rest of them. 124 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,960 Now we got one song. We got one for y'all. 125 00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:12,000 Anime boys looping over here made anime remix. You remember 126 00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:12,360 this one. 127 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:28,759 Speaker 1: I'm not doing, monkey, you clumb up in that tree. 128 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:31,399 Speaker 13: What you're doing up there while you staring at while 129 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:34,960 you running from every debate you ing from Andrew and 130 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,519 from me, I'm not. 131 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: Doing I'm not doing all. 132 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 8: My doing. 133 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 18: A monkey's hanging down. 134 00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm sent down sound. 135 00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 19: By a smile monkey. 136 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: What you're doing to me? Clemment up that tree? 137 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:06,559 Speaker 13: Matt and a feeding no male monkey climbed up a tree, 138 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,759 K S s and he and doing much more enforce. 139 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:09,759 Speaker 8: Than that. 140 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:17,759 Speaker 20: Monkey. 141 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:30,679 Speaker 21: Dea monkey with them bane the tree dress hanging down. 142 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,080 I was like, down sound, that's a smile, Not so monkey, 143 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:35,399 what you're doing to me? 144 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:41,279 Speaker 22: Clemment up that tree? 145 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 8: All right? 146 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 9: Last one and that's this one's This one's because it's 147 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:53,080 a debate where we got to have like the oh 148 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,120 my gosh, how does Mike Winger get a million views? 149 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:05,119 Who are these people? Even these This is weird. Oh 150 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,160 this is a damn quasi moto right here. Look at 151 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,400 this doe looking like damn quasi moto. We're trying to 152 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,039 debate theology, bro, you can't debate if you've got a 153 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,079 damn fed up face looking like Quasimoto. That's not even 154 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,039 that you can't do it, it's it's it's not allowed 155 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,200 in the cannons to debate if your face is I'm joking, 156 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,000 by the way, that's called a joke for those pious men, 157 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,519 those little pious soy boys. Is about to expose me. 158 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,759 This one goes out to the Calvinists out there, because 159 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:33,319 today is a debate day, so we got to dedicate 160 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,599 a nice little ditty to the cal in it cold. 161 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,000 You are not getting a church yould ben to your 162 00:17:39,079 --> 00:17:39,599 own church. 163 00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 23: Excuse me, you're you're just making an assumption that all 164 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,920 the saints agree they. 165 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 8: Do they do. 166 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 9: I can go read them. 167 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 8: You have those things. 168 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 24: You're a call that demon a boomer card part a demon. 169 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 23: A boomer assumption that a boomer part. Excuse me, a 170 00:17:58,759 --> 00:18:00,279 demon a bloomer art. 171 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 24: Are you're acholar ly a deement in a boomer part 172 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,799 outdoor anomicy a demon. 173 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 9: In a Boomer part. 174 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 23: Excuse me, a deement in a Boomer part, or a 175 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:14,519 demon in a boomer making an assumptions, or all the 176 00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:16,720 councils inspired in an errant. 177 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,039 Speaker 9: The acumenical thing ideas. 178 00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 12: So there are ecumenical sentence are inspired in an errant? 179 00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 8: Correct? How do you know? Because the oyster at least 180 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,680 is another truth? How do you know the voyster leads 181 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,160 you to know the truth because. 182 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 24: They're in a court with all the other ecumenical doctors, 183 00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:37,240 all the other test parts and the scriptures. 184 00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 8: You're just making an assumption. 185 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 23: You're acholarle that demon in a Boomer part, or a 186 00:18:43,599 --> 00:18:46,680 demon in a boomer making an assumption of collar that 187 00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:48,279 dement e a Boomer part. 188 00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:49,599 Speaker 8: Excuse me, who's me? 189 00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:52,759 Speaker 24: A demon em a Boomer part, or you're acholar ly 190 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,319 deement in a Boomer part. Outdoor economy a. 191 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,759 Speaker 23: Demon in a Boomer part, excuse me? A deement Boomer 192 00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:04,200 car em Boomer car. 193 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,759 Speaker 9: All right, that's enough of all that. It's time to 194 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,279 open it up. We got a nice little fat chat 195 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,200 room here ready to go. We had a excuse me, 196 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:25,599 excuse me, we had a soy man in the chat 197 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,759 talking smack all day. I hope he calls in. So 198 00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:30,640 the way this works, as you guys know, is that 199 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,799 you request to speak over here on Twitter. So call 200 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,480 ins are via Twitter. It's the Twitter space at the 201 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:40,559 top of my profile. Here is the link in the 202 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,960 chat to call in. So if you click over there, 203 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,599 your hit request to speak, and you go in a queue, 204 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,799 in a line, and then I go to you one 205 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,559 by one. Now remember the way this works is you 206 00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:58,200 can ask a question if you want to. If you 207 00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:59,720 want to debate, you go to the head of the line. 208 00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:01,799 So you raise your hand if you tell me you 209 00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:06,400 want a debate. And the topics today are literature books 210 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:13,000 of the Bible, theology, church history, Patristics, ecumenical councils, Islam, 211 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:19,160 the Qur'an Revelation, Protestantism, Calvinism, Evangelicalism, Arianism, Cults, Hebrew Roots, Mormonism. 212 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:28,720 Thus all Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, Oriental Heretics, Arians, Hebrew Roots, 213 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,720 Black huber or Israelites. This is the det Gnostics. I 214 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,839 forgot the Gnostics. This is your day to call in 215 00:20:36,039 --> 00:20:40,599 and put me in my palace. Somebody need to shut 216 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,359 that man down, put him in his place. I want 217 00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:49,480 full on. Sassy black woman working at the DMV energy today, 218 00:20:50,279 --> 00:20:55,079 I want full on just let me have the heat, 219 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,920 maybe because I need to be put in my place. 220 00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,319 We all know I've been running this game too long 221 00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:05,480 up here, growing and popping off this channel. It's time 222 00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:07,880 to put him to bed, baby, put him to rest, 223 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,359 shut him down. He is too mean, his arguments is 224 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:19,680 too good. He got a damn tom Selleck visage. Look 225 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:22,680 going on. It's too much. We can't handle it. We 226 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,519 gotta stop this somehow. We need a brave champion from 227 00:21:27,559 --> 00:21:31,960 the domains of Papalism, from the domains of Islam, from 228 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,400 the domains of Calvinism, to just step on up with 229 00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:41,119 that Queen Latifa, Monique Cardi, b Energy and put me 230 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:45,799 in my place because jay Do are getting destroyed today. 231 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,279 He getting wrecked today, he getting cooked today. How do 232 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,839 we how do you do this? I'm gonna help you 233 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:58,200 all out. All you gotta do to destroy me is 234 00:21:58,319 --> 00:22:02,759 come on and present a argument. In fact, I want 235 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,599 to be destroyed. I want to be killed. I want 236 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,440 to be wrecked. I'm ready for somebody to come correct me, 237 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,319 because guess what if I'm wrong, I want to know 238 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,039 I'm wrong. I don't want to stay in my delusion 239 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,240 like a lot of y'all soy boys out there, y'all 240 00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:19,519 want to. 241 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:22,559 Speaker 18: Stay in my little delusion. I want to stay in 242 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,759 my little soy pod delusion fantasy world. 243 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 8: No, no, not me. 244 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 9: I invite you to destroy me. Who else does that? 245 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:36,960 Nobody else invites everyone to come and destroy into the bank. 246 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:38,559 Nobody why? Because they're scared. 247 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,799 Speaker 18: All the other online apologists. They will only interact in 248 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,400 a professional way with the other big channels and apologists. 249 00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:51,559 I'm not dirtying myself with the messides, with the plebs, 250 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:59,920 with the workers. Please please, all of these snotty apologists 251 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,119 on the internet. 252 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 25: To a degree from a Baptist university, I want to 253 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,200 open borders. And by the way, miss scholar, I come 254 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,799 through a though try. I'm caving Ortland a mis scholar. 255 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,440 I don't care about none of that. Could care less. 256 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 9: If you are a gave an Ortland follower, Come make 257 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,880 an argument, Come get in the chair and make an oreum. 258 00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 14: A boy. 259 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:33,599 Speaker 1: Play shakraf some more. 260 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 26: No, because I'm an elite apologist on YouTube, I go 261 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:44,759 on Matt Fred I drank pints with a queas. I 262 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:51,640 drank a giant Beerstein full of cake icing like Ibirah. 263 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,960 We professionals, we don't sink to the low levels of 264 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,720 the meanness of Jay Dyer and his student voices that 265 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:01,240 he does. 266 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,279 Speaker 9: We're better than him. 267 00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 27: We're better than that, are better than that. I'm the 268 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,880 best person on the internet, a better than that, better 269 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,839 than you because I'm pious. Let me show hold the 270 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:14,720 world how piss on? 271 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 9: I'm thinking about like a like a Limp Biscuits type 272 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,039 of song on pious. You know, remember that horrible era 273 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:26,680 of rap rock in like two thousand and three. Oh 274 00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:31,440 it's the worst, like big old baggy jeans, Fred Durst 275 00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:34,839 with a baseball cap backwards on pious on one. 276 00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 8: Of the best. 277 00:24:35,319 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 9: Let me show y'all are better than the rest on 278 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,880 pious on the internet. It's good. All of that's gay, bro, 279 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,079 Get out of here with all that game is. That's 280 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,240 why nobody will come debate now in the debates sphere. 281 00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:53,920 I forgot to mention this. Somebody sent me Alex O'Connor's 282 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,599 discussion with some other dude about tag. I have not 283 00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:05,359 yet yet seen the so uh apparently the dude that 284 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,000 he had on who I don't know who it is 285 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,480 said something about he thought that precept tag was was 286 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:15,680 one of the better styles or techniques of debate that 287 00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:19,640 feists have. Ah, well, thank you. At least we get 288 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,519 a little bit of a nod from the atheist. I 289 00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,480 don't know what else they said in this discussion, so 290 00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:28,680 I can't really comment on it. I did intend to 291 00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:33,319 watch it if anybody has that clip, because I think 292 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,240 somebody sent it to me, but I've already forgotten who 293 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,440 sent me the clip. I don't know where it is 294 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:39,839 and what message. Rap rock is totally gayd That's one 295 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,200 of the worst stuff ever. Remember when we were making 296 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,039 fun of butt rock and we could, we could throw 297 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,839 butt rock is like a subgenre. Rap rock is a 298 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,799 subgenre of butt rock. Now, we just had our conference 299 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,400 last weekend at my church. Do you even go to church? 300 00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:01,480 We literally just had a conference at my church, dummy, 301 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,680 and we covered iconography. So I did a lecture literally 302 00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:09,039 at the church on iconography, and people are. 303 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 28: Asking, do you even go to church? He doesn't even 304 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,559 go to church. Well to you, to you, good sir, 305 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,440 I licked the phone from my espresso. That is my 306 00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:24,200 response to you, sir, I look at the phone. I 307 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:29,359 licked the phone at you, sir. Anyway, So back to 308 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,119 the issue. Did they never gonna have me own pines 309 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,319 with Aquinas? I don't care anyone else. 310 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 9: I mean, I've always been in the sphere of the fringes, 311 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,000 you know what I mean? Like, you know, if you 312 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,519 talk about the type of geopolitical stuff, I talk about 313 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,799 your class as conspiracy and so that kind of stuff is, 314 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,559 you know. I mean, we're a lot more mainstream nowadays 315 00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:59,759 than we used to be, but it's still seen as 316 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,680 not normian, am I Okay? I mean I'm not acting 317 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,240 any different than I act on literally every live stream 318 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,240 where we just clown around and have fun. So I 319 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:15,279 don't know what you're talking about. You know what I'm 320 00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:17,599 on Expresso. It's about to be like, it's about to 321 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,640 be damn serial killer level apologetics out here. Okay, it's 322 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,240 about to be I was gonna say Jeffrey, butdonka Donald, 323 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,519 but he was too he was two skittles, So it's 324 00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:33,000 about to be damn h who was the lady killer? 325 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 28: Serial killer? 326 00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 8: What was his name? Remember him? 327 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 9: I just went blank. I know my serial killers very well. 328 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,960 I just went blank on what's his face? Bt not 329 00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:43,880 BTK because he was all dressed up like women. 330 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 8: He was. 331 00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 9: He was gross. Who's the one that zach Efron played. 332 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,440 That's what I'm trying to think of. All right, we 333 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:55,119 got four people in line. That's good. That's what I 334 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,680 like to see. We already get four people, are about 335 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,880 to open it up. Oh, I'm so, I'm nervous. Super No, 336 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,160 not the nice talk or he was a Satanist although 337 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,039 actually Ted Bundy, right, that's what I'm talking ab well, 338 00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:08,440 I'm about to go Ted Bundy on, y'all. Ted Bundy on, y'all. 339 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,640 I didn't want to read a poem before we before 340 00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:19,519 with this a poem I wrote in grad school, back 341 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:26,680 when I was in academia. It's we had a death 342 00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:33,279 in the family, and I just really wanted to express 343 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,400 when we had this death in the family back and 344 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,240 as an underground I wanted to express my feelings during 345 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:41,240 that tough time, and so I wrote this poem for 346 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:45,119 grad school. I won some awards at some multicultural events 347 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,160 at college ballers. We be on some twinky Twinkie play. 348 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,160 I hate us get found stanky stanky chief in fat 349 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,160 blunts of the danky danky, big diamond rings on a 350 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:58,920 panky panky that was my grad school poem that won 351 00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:01,039 many awards. Because, like to thank you, it's more of 352 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:04,000 a haiku. I guess you could say, uh, sort of 353 00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:07,400 a ghetto haiku is a good way to put that. 354 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,000 All Right, we're gonna open it up. Remember the topics 355 00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:16,279 today are limited to I was in the I wasn't 356 00:29:16,319 --> 00:29:18,920 in the dead Poet society. I was in the lit 357 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:23,960 poet society, right. I was over there with Juicy j DJ, Paul, 358 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,480 Project Pat. You know what I'm saying, gangs, Taboo, We 359 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,160 was all over there crafting HiPE beats and rots. You 360 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,279 know what I'm saying. Anyway, it's not a haiku. It's 361 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:41,880 a joke, dummy, You're so stupid. Too many people in 362 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,359 this audiences too's got too much spurgetism. They literally can't 363 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,359 tell what jokes are. They're They were here like snops 364 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,480 like fact checking memes and jokes. Fact check. 365 00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:56,039 Speaker 29: Technically, uh, technically, Project Pat was not writing a haiku. 366 00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:01,279 I studied in Japan under the foremost authority haikus, and 367 00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:04,319 that is technically not a haiku. 368 00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:07,119 Speaker 9: Well, thank you, thank you so much. We were all 369 00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:12,599 concerned all over here, waiting for the definitive proof to 370 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,319 whether Project pat was right in Haikus or not. Thank you, 371 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,839 Spargatism five thousand. We love you, We owe it all 372 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,559 to you. Next up Harrison, not Smith, but Harrison, just Harrison, 373 00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:29,359 just straight up Harrison. What's up, Harrison? 374 00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 5: Yo? 375 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,799 Speaker 28: What's good day? 376 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,799 Speaker 22: Great to be talking with you. I just had a 377 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,200 question regarding uh, which Ephesians was it? 378 00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 8: Really quick? 379 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 30: It was Ephesians two eight nine. 380 00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:49,079 Speaker 8: You know, for the grace you have been saved through faith. Yeah. 381 00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:50,359 So I was talking to. 382 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 22: One of my Protestant friends and they were basically just 383 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,400 arguing that, oh, you know, the relationship with God is 384 00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:02,480 enough and not actions. 385 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,039 Speaker 8: So I just wanted to see you know, what your 386 00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:07,920 thought is or like what a rebuttal. 387 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 9: There's no such thing as a relationship without actions. I mean, 388 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,920 imagine saying to your wife, well we're married, but it's 389 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,480 a relationship. This can you mute bros ecking? But I 390 00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,920 don't have to actually do anything to demonstrate that I 391 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,000 actually love you. It's all notional, it's all just verbal. 392 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,319 I mean, that's crazy. What does Jesus say, if you 393 00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:29,440 love me, you keep my commandments? Many of many will 394 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,279 say to me on the last day, Lord Lord, do 395 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,160 we not even do good things in your name, and 396 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,720 Jesus says, apart from me, did Matthew. 397 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 8: Twelve? 398 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,079 Speaker 9: Okay, So he has a Protestant presupposition that that text 399 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,880 and Ephesians too, is teaching the Protestant doctrine of solo 400 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,880 fide or justification by faith alone, apart from any kind 401 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,680 of works. When Paul is talking about in the context 402 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:55,000 first and foremost of the works of the law, the 403 00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:58,319 Jewish law, so circumcision, none of those works are going 404 00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:00,000 to save you. That's what the very next verse he said, 405 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:03,519 as you are called the uncircumcision by those who are 406 00:32:03,559 --> 00:32:06,720 circumcised by hands. So the context here is the works 407 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:09,240 of the Jewish law. It is not Paul saying that 408 00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:12,599 you never have to demonstrate or have any good works, 409 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,039 because he says in Galatians, the only faith that counts 410 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,000 is faith working through love. So even in Galatians, the 411 00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:25,799 supposed book of Solafide, Paul actually says that the only 412 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,119 faith that counts is the one that works. 413 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 8: Right on. Yeah, thank you, Yeah. 414 00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 22: I quoted Matthew seven twenty one through twenty three to them, 415 00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:38,680 and they just presented me with Ephesians, and so I 416 00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:39,920 was like, man, that's just. 417 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,039 Speaker 9: So they think the Bible contradicts I mean, you have 418 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,160 to harmonize the text. 419 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 30: So the question, I know, yeah, it was, Yeah, it's 420 00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:47,599 kind of some circular logic. 421 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 8: I don't know. 422 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,079 Speaker 9: But well, and other other points you could Other points 423 00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:54,960 you could make is that the Church never in history 424 00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:59,559 taught sola fide. I mean literally, the ancient world didn't 425 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:03,759 even have the metaphysics and the nominalism necessary to divorce 426 00:33:04,519 --> 00:33:08,079 one's status from the ontological reality. So if you don't know, 427 00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:12,279 justification by faith alone is premised on the possibility of 428 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,799 divorcing what is ontologically the case from what is nominally 429 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:20,400 in a legal sense status said to be the case. 430 00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:24,799 So it's as if you could be actually wicked in reality, 431 00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:30,000 but you're declared nominally righteous via a legal standing. The 432 00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:33,480 ancient world didn't think that way. They didn't divorce reality 433 00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:38,000 from nominal or word terminology or legal standing. That's something 434 00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:41,240 that develops after nominalism takes precedence in the Late Middle 435 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,880 Ages and influences. Luther is a nominalist that follows Gabriel 436 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,680 Bile and Akham that those philosophers had to come first 437 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:53,759 before you could get the idea of divorcing righteousness from 438 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,200 actually being righteous. You see, the ancient world did not 439 00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:59,960 think that way. This is now well known and admit 440 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,799 in the scholarship. So even if you find a passage 441 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:05,039 in the Church Fathers that says we're saved by grace, 442 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,079 people like you know, James White, will just go in so, 443 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,880 oh see, they're teaching the Protestant doctor of justification boy 444 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,199 faith alone. Even though Alistair McGrath, the famous Protestant, in 445 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,719 his book Ustecia Day, has admitted that nobody in the 446 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,880 ancient world or in the Middle Ages taught anything close 447 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,119 to the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone. 448 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 8: Thank you, I appreciate that. Man. One more thing. 449 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 30: I know this may not be relevant to the topic. 450 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,840 Do you think bitcoin is going to go back down? 451 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,679 Speaker 9: I think that, like I said in the last live stream, 452 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,400 if there is a dip, usually what happens is that 453 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,639 when there's a crash, the crash of the of the 454 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,519 latest cycle is the peak of the last cycle. So 455 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,760 the peak of this cycle has been about sixty. 456 00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:54,039 Speaker 30: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The faith did go 457 00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:56,199 back down, it would not go packtick yet, right. 458 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 9: I don't think we'll see like you know, bitcoin below sick. 459 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,039 I mean it's possible you have a like. 460 00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:06,039 Speaker 30: A prediction like when what do you mean when, like 461 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,360 when if it did hit the floor, like when it 462 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:08,960 would Oh. 463 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,519 Speaker 9: Well, I think based on past cycles, and this is 464 00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:15,440 not any infallible guide, but it's just the best guess. 465 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,559 Is that right around uh, you know, June is when 466 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,760 the since we're since we're in a bullmarket now, the 467 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,840 bull the bullmarker will probably start ending around June, and 468 00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:27,800 then we'll probably see a crash around that time. 469 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 8: All right, man, thank you. Yeah, I'm gonna go. 470 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 9: H but I but again, I don't know if I 471 00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,559 I don't know if I would rest in there being 472 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,119 a crash to sixty you know what I mean? Like, 473 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,440 let's say we get two hundred thousand dollars bitcoin, it 474 00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:44,079 might crash to one hundred, you know what I mean? 475 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, that's that's fair. Yeah, I've been thinking about that. 476 00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 22: Thank you for the uh, for the insights on the arguments. 477 00:35:51,519 --> 00:35:54,360 I'm gonna go, uh talk to my friend about that 478 00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:55,480 and see what they say. 479 00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, great questions. You could also always you know, shift 480 00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:00,000 the topic over to he may not want to shift 481 00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,039 the topic, but you could you could talk about, you know, 482 00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:05,960 the canon of scripture, because you know, Protestanism is really 483 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,119 grounded on solo fide and excuse me, solo scriptura as well, 484 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,320 solo fide sol scripture. You know, the sola's the only 485 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:20,719 in other words, sola fide itself rests on solo scriptura, 486 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,719 right because they need their specific canon, which for example, 487 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,320 excludes books that talk about the necessity works. And Luther 488 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:31,719 was even explicit about this when he talked about why 489 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,039 certain deuterocanatical books had to be removed, which you didn't 490 00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:41,760 agree with, but he said, you know, the since these 491 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,800 books don't teach quote the doctrine and Gospel of Grace, 492 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,239 they're clearly not part of the canon. So Luther's presupposition 493 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,320 about what the Gospel of Grace was was a big 494 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,360 part of dictating why he chose to exclude those books 495 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,000 from the canon. It's not the only reason, but it 496 00:36:57,039 --> 00:37:06,719 was part of it. Seraphim Saraphim, what's up? 497 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 19: Man? 498 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,599 Speaker 9: Go I'm you, I'm you dude? 499 00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:10,039 Speaker 8: Hey man? 500 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:10,599 Speaker 19: Hey man? 501 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 8: How you doing hey? 502 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 31: Hey? 503 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 11: So I had a few questions. I know this is 504 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,519 a debate, However, this is a this is not my 505 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:24,199 position ask questions. It's fine, okay, awesome, man. So I 506 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,920 have a friend that is in the O c A. 507 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,039 I won't mention his name or anything. 508 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:32,679 Speaker 14: And he claims that there's a lot of people that 509 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:37,840 you know, uh, say that they're a humanist this and that, 510 00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:41,639 and he views that those that view the O c 511 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,039 A as a humanist our sectarians almost like akin to 512 00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,639 that of like the calendarists, like true orthodox schismatic types. 513 00:37:50,199 --> 00:37:54,199 And I mean digging into it, like what why would 514 00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:57,000 one say that the O c A Is a humanist? 515 00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 8: I guess is what I'm doing. 516 00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 9: There's more accurately, every jurisdiction has a humanists and liberal 517 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,440 accumanizing elements amongst them, so there's no perfect jurisdiction. I'm 518 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,559 sure you can find a humanist amongst rocorps, but whether 519 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,039 there are a humanists amongst the OCA is. Of course 520 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:19,119 there are. There's a humanists in the Antiochians. There's a 521 00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:23,239 humanist in everywhere, so that shouldn't even really But it's 522 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,000 not like the entire thing is that way. 523 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 32: Okay, So what did you say, Like OCA is as 524 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,760 a whole is like not, I only use the word tainted, 525 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,159 but like not like just because there's some a humanist 526 00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:38,159 presence within some of the clergy within the OCA that 527 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,760 doesn't like undermine. 528 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,079 Speaker 9: Well, remember that although there is this kind of there 529 00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:47,760 is a sense in which the various jurisdictions operate as 530 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,639 a kind of a collective. Really Orthodoxy is in many 531 00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:54,639 ways decentralized, and so there's gonna be a lot of 532 00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:57,280 good priests and a lot of good perhaps even bishops. 533 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,239 I'm not familiar with all the bishops of the OCA, 534 00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,320 but I mean there's certain bishops of the OCA who 535 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,599 are really bad, like Archbishop Alexander Gilitzen, who thinks Origin 536 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,440 is a saint and is obviously a big open ecumenist. 537 00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:13,840 So there's bad elements amongst the clergy anywhere, but it 538 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:19,119 wouldn't make the entire OCA bad because these are essentially 539 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,960 decentralized jurisdictions and them and even amongst Greek Orthodox there's 540 00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:27,760 solid anti Acumenist sections in groups. So it's really just 541 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,679 a case by case basis. I would say there's no 542 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,920 perfect jurisdictions or perfect you know, parishes or anything like that, 543 00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:38,960 but certainly certain jurisdictions have a tendency towards more of it. 544 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,679 And the other thing with the OCA is that there's 545 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,280 I think there's a danger that some people sense and 546 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,679 feel this is not coming from me, but from certain clergy, 547 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,519 is that there might be backdoor deals that are happening 548 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,559 whereby the OCA wants to achieve eventually recognition by the EP. 549 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,440 And that's because the OCA has always kind of been 550 00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:01,760 in a somewhat ambiguous statu in terms of their canonical recognition. 551 00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:05,039 Not all the jurisdictions have actually recognized the OCA, and 552 00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:08,000 this goes back to issues in the Cold War. And 553 00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:11,079 so there might be on the part of some elements 554 00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:15,159 of the OA that the desire to achieve full canonical recognition, 555 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,519 which could then allow a backdoor deal with the EP, 556 00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:25,840 whereby they maintain a continued status as supposedly an independent jurisdiction, 557 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,199 but they kind of have a secret backdoor deal with 558 00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:33,079 Bartholomew and go Art. So that's also a possibility, and 559 00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:35,239 that might be why some people are saying. 560 00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:39,119 Speaker 19: That awesome, Hey, that was a good answer. That clears 561 00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,400 things up. And then I have another question on that 562 00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:44,440 of baptism. 563 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,559 Speaker 33: So I just read on the reception of the heterodotsy 564 00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:52,159 to do with that, that's church by Uncome Mount and 565 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,840 press and it kind of left them with more questions 566 00:40:56,159 --> 00:40:56,880 than answers. 567 00:40:57,199 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 9: Yeah, I just if you go back to the last 568 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,519 open Debate stream, we had about a whole hour where 569 00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:03,800 we discussed this, So I would just say go back 570 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,800 and watch that stream because I just don't really want 571 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,559 to repeat the whole hour of argumentation about that topic. 572 00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:11,760 But I think it's the last open Debate live stream 573 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,480 that we had, we had about a I don't know 574 00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:15,559 two or three people asking that question. So, and I'm 575 00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:18,119 not trying to be dismissive or rude, it's just I 576 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,320 just I've literally had probably fifteen people in the last 577 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,280 three years asked that question, and after spending an hour 578 00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,199 every live stream on that topic, it's just it gets 579 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,559 really old. But I appreciate that. And you can go 580 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,920 check out the previous lection that we did Bob Bob, 581 00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:47,679 the Duke, Bob, the Duck, Bob the Duck. Welcome everybody, 582 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,599 if you would like and share. We had like eight 583 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,400 hundred people and two hundred likes. Now one thousand people. 584 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,519 We hit over a thousand and one and fifty one 585 00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,480 current viewers. Only two hundred of y'all like the stream. 586 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,880 What the hell is going on? Maybe y'all don't like 587 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,920 we got eight hundred haters up in here. What's up 588 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,159 eight hundred haters? No, Bigcoin is not a scam. I'm 589 00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:08,199 sorry that you believe that. I think a lot of 590 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,400 people when they miss out on opportunities, uh, they get 591 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,639 angry and bitter, and then suddenly it was always good. 592 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,079 Speaker 16: Yeah. 593 00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:19,079 Speaker 9: Yeah, So people who were very successful through it, they 594 00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:21,639 must all be part of a giant scam. Everything is 595 00:42:21,679 --> 00:42:25,079 a scam. Oh, I'm blackpilled. Everything's bad. Everything's a scam. 596 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,840 You gotta I'm mute, Boba duck. What's up? I'm mute. 597 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:31,679 Speaker 8: Yeah. 598 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,079 Speaker 34: I remember the Church of Jesus Christ the Latter day Saints, 599 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,679 and my friend was saying that I should debate you, 600 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,400 But really I was just trying to get an understanding 601 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,639 of the what you called it, the monarchical trinitarian view 602 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,320 or something like that. But it sounded like you had 603 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,559 other things that you wanted to debate about Mormonism. 604 00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 9: Or we debate whatever you want. I don't care. We 605 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:57,719 could talk about Trinity, or we could debate Mormonism, whatever 606 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:58,000 you want. 607 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,159 Speaker 34: Honestly, I don't have many issues with the Orthodox. I 608 00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:05,599 think they're closer than everyone else. You know, we're in 609 00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:07,960 an agreement on my grace versus works. It sounds like 610 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,159 we're an agreement on rejecting Thomism. Thombism, however, you pronounced that. 611 00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 35: A lot of stuff like that. 612 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 34: So I don't dislike any of my Orthodox guys, and 613 00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:22,320 I don't have enough of a knowledge of their doctrine 614 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,280 to have issues with it. 615 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 9: Can I ask you a question? Yeah, One of the 616 00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:29,960 things that I think is probably just on the surface, 617 00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:33,960 one of the most maybe difficult elements for me in 618 00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:36,599 terms of what I mean. I'm not an expert on Mormonism. 619 00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:38,840 I've done over the years. I've done a decent amount 620 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,880 of research. I've read Talmadge, one of your systematic Theologians, 621 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,199 and other kind of older texts from Brigham Young and 622 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,280 Joseph Smith, and you know, doctrine Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, 623 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,960 various sermons that Smith gave over the years. But I 624 00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:53,760 think one of the most difficult things for me to 625 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,880 understand is the added sections where Joseph Smith added about 626 00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:03,440 thirteen or twelve or thirteen verses to Genesis fifty, which 627 00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:07,000 included himself being prophesied in the Book of Genesis. To me, 628 00:44:07,159 --> 00:44:10,800 that on the surface just completely destroys this entire religion. 629 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 8: You know, the Joseph Smith translation was non necessarily intended. 630 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:21,639 Speaker 5: To be. 631 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:30,159 Speaker 34: Like oh, this was actually in Genesis, or even necessarily 632 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,800 like this is canon. 633 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,679 Speaker 9: Okay, so I can add to the Bible and present 634 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,840 it as if it's a prophecy. I mean, you understand 635 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,360 these verses are intended to predict and prophesy. Joseph Smith, 636 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,920 you absolutely can. 637 00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 12: And this is something I can't talks about. 638 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,639 Speaker 34: Where Nephi is reading in Isaiah and he says, well, 639 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,639 I made this, and I liken the scriptures unto myself. 640 00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:57,880 So he tries to find himself in the scriptures and 641 00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:01,599 let God teach him new things about himself or about 642 00:45:01,679 --> 00:45:05,760 God from the scriptures rather than seeking strictly that's what. 643 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 9: But see, that's what. Are you aware of the way that, 644 00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:13,400 for example, Muslims do this with Mohammed in the Book 645 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,039 of John or in Deuteronomy, that those passages are prophesying Mohammed. 646 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 8: Yeah, but they don't necessarily. 647 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,639 Speaker 34: But like we don't use the Joseph and the translation 648 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:26,400 is like evidence. 649 00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 9: It doesn't matter whether you use it now because it's 650 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,119 evidence of a con man. He's a fraud. 651 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,639 Speaker 34: You could say it like that, but you could also say, well, 652 00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,760 you know, an actual prophecy would look like that way too. 653 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 9: Right Like now, actual prophets don't add themselves eighteen hundred 654 00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:44,960 years later to the text, and. 655 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 34: You reading the Book of Matthew would say, these are 656 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,199 clearly the apostles retroactively reading. 657 00:45:53,639 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 11: Christ. 658 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 9: Not at all, totally, totally not true. Number one, no 659 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,280 matter what Jews say. But that's not at all. That's 660 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,199 the argument Gesus himself makes, not the Pharisees. It's Jesus 661 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,679 saying that these Old Testament passages predict me, totally different 662 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,679 than retroactively saying eighteen hundred years later the Book of Genesis, 663 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,960 which actually thousands of years later, retroactively the Book of 664 00:46:15,079 --> 00:46:17,559 Genesis predicted Joseph Smith. That's preposterous. 665 00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 34: So Jesus saying eighteen hundred years earlier, Moses predicted me. 666 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,559 Speaker 9: Are you aware of what the Gospel of John says? 667 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:27,920 Jesus doesn't just say those books predicted me. He says, 668 00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:32,239 I spoke through those prophets. Sure, yes, no, that's not 669 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,519 the same. What did hold on? 670 00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:35,519 Speaker 16: What did I just say? 671 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 9: What did Jesus? What did I just say? 672 00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:43,599 Speaker 8: He said that Jesus said he spoke through the prophet. 673 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:50,760 Speaker 9: Does Jesus say, what does Jesus claim that in the Gospels? Yeah, okay, 674 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,239 so that's different. Man, that's totally different than what you're 675 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:54,800 talking about. 676 00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 34: Again, for a Jew who rejects Jesus Christ. 677 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,280 Speaker 9: That's a fallacy. You have, dumb dis argument is Jews 678 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:09,000 reject the Book of Mormon. Sure, so what the heck 679 00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:09,679 does Jews. 680 00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:10,079 Speaker 28: Have to do with anything? 681 00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 9: That's a stupid argument. That's a dumb argument. What does 682 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,840 Jews have to do with anything? 683 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 34: I'm saying that the same principle by which you're discounting. 684 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 9: No, you're using a fallacy. It's not the same principle. 685 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,880 You're way off retroactively saying eighteen hundred years later. 686 00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:29,159 Speaker 8: Well, whatever you think. It is like the same loge. 687 00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 34: It could be used by someone who is inclined to 688 00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:32,440 argue against Christ. 689 00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:36,039 Speaker 9: No, it couldn't. That's the false equivalence. You don't see 690 00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:41,679 the difference there. If Joseph Smith said I was predicted 691 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,880 in the Book of Genesis because I spoke. If Joseph 692 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,280 Smith said I was predicted in the Book of Genesis 693 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:56,960 because my spirit, yes, I can hear you? Can you 694 00:47:57,039 --> 00:47:57,280 hear me? 695 00:48:00,039 --> 00:48:00,639 Speaker 8: Okay, I'm back. 696 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:01,559 Speaker 9: Can you hear me? 697 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 19: Can you hear me? 698 00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 16: Yes? 699 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,599 Speaker 9: Can you hear you? Okay? So if Joseph, if Joseph Smith, 700 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,360 do stop for a second. Stop for a second. Okay, 701 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,480 let's walk through this. If Joseph Smith said, I spoke 702 00:48:19,639 --> 00:48:22,920 through the spirit that was speaking in Genesis, it was 703 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:28,039 my spirit speaking in Genesis to predict me. Shut up, man, Well, 704 00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:29,920 are you're not going to stop talking when I'm explaining 705 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,800 this to you? Why do you keep interrupting? Let me. 706 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:33,519 Speaker 13: Right? 707 00:48:34,519 --> 00:48:35,320 Speaker 9: Why is this funny? 708 00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 8: I'm hearing you out. 709 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 9: Yeah, but you're giggling. Why are you giggling? Are you 710 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,360 giggling at the idiots of momentum? I mean I would 711 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,000 be giggling too if I was a Mormon, because all 712 00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:56,639 this stuff is amability stupid. So again, if if Joseph 713 00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:59,599 Smith said, I am speaking through Genesis, that would be 714 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,920 all right. If you're not gonna, if you're gonna, If 715 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,679 you don't stop, understand, if you don't stop talking over 716 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,400 me and interrupting, We're done. That's just so stupid. You 717 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,159 want to call back in and try to get a 718 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,159 better connection, because I think there's a delay. You're welcome 719 00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:14,920 to call back in and try again. But it's just 720 00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:17,239 I'm not gonna talk to somebody who talks every two 721 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:22,599 seconds when I start talking Golden weak. No, there's not 722 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,440 an equivalence between Jesus saying I spoke through Moses. All 723 00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:31,039 of the revelation in Genesis is about me, because I 724 00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:34,239 was the one speaking through all of those texts. Peter 725 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,760 says it was the spirit of Christ that prophesied through 726 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,840 the Old Testament. That's not the same thing as Joseph 727 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,079 Smith saying I'm gonna add verses to the Book of 728 00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:47,239 Genesis that predict me. That's a totally false, false equivalence. 729 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,800 How stupid this is. Go ahead, I'm mute. 730 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,159 Speaker 8: kJ how's it going? 731 00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:53,599 Speaker 9: Can you hear me? 732 00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 8: Yep? 733 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,280 Speaker 12: Awesome. I don't have any debate or anything. 734 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,199 Speaker 19: I just have a question. 735 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 36: Anybody have actually talked about this already, So if you 736 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,960 have my apologies and you can just shoot me away, 737 00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:05,119 I'll find the other reference. 738 00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:08,639 Speaker 12: But what do you think about loose from the Catholic Church? 739 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 8: And then about what about Loose? 740 00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 9: I guess we already covered that, like three lives rooms back. 741 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,840 I made fun of it. I made fun of it 742 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:16,320 for an hour. 743 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,320 Speaker 36: What is a What do you think about secular art, 744 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,960 like art that's not blessed by a priest being used 745 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,079 to promote Christianity. 746 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 9: There's nothing wrong with Christian art. It's just that the 747 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,719 canons of the Orthodox Church were set up to dictate 748 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:44,039 the liturgical worship practice. And by the way, it's actually 749 00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,280 it's not even the Seventh Council that first starts to 750 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,719 rule on this, it's actually the Council Trollo. Trollo and 751 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,880 Canon eighty two, it is one of the first canons 752 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,320 of the Church to specify what's appropriate and not appropriate 753 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,440 to the liturgi worship of the Church in terms of 754 00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:04,199 imagery and iconography. And so the Church even at that 755 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,239 time forbade pagan art. In Canon eighty two, I think 756 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,039 they talk about pagan's styles of art, and then that 757 00:51:11,199 --> 00:51:14,360 becomes the basis in part for the theology of the 758 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,280 Seventh Ecumenical Council. So for the Orthodox Church in the East, 759 00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:20,599 Trollo was pretty much seen as an ecumenical council, and 760 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,880 even Pote John the Eighth pretty much agreed with everything 761 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,760 that was in Trollo, including the elements if I recall 762 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,119 relating to married priests. And it's only much later that 763 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,760 the Vatican, the papacy rejects elements of Trollo, but the 764 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,960 Seventh Ecumenical Council affirms Trollo. So once again we see 765 00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:44,119 that the principles of iconography and the Seventh Council aren't 766 00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:47,559 made up by the Seventh Council. They actually go back 767 00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:55,239 to Quinnessex Trollo Council. And even earlier you have, for example, 768 00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:01,440 Canon seventy three of Trollo mentions sake art and what's appropriate, 769 00:52:01,519 --> 00:52:06,000 what's not appropriate, and keeping pagan art out of the church. 770 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,639 Now what's considered pagan art? Well, when you look at 771 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,840 what if you go to the Vatican, which I've been 772 00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:12,679 to the Vatican, I have been to the Vatican Museum 773 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,760 and all that, you'll notice all kinds of nudies and 774 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,760 boobies and tiny peepies. I guess everybody in the Red 775 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,199 County Church has tiny peepies, because all the artwork in 776 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,320 Rome is all like micropenes. But and that makes sense, 777 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:28,920 maybe that's why they are the way they are. But 778 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:31,719 when you go inside the Vatican, when you go into 779 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,440 Saint Peter's and you see naked people everywhere. Do you 780 00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:39,440 think the ancient Church had nudies everywhere, had you know, 781 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:45,159 boobs and butts, and they're all fat people by the way, Yeah, 782 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,119 that has nothing to do at all with what the 783 00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,199 seven Documentical Council lays down. And what that shows us 784 00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:55,079 is that all the way back to even earlier than 785 00:52:55,079 --> 00:53:00,840 the Renaissance papacy, the Western Church gave verbal credence to 786 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,199 the teaching of Trollo and the Seventh Ecamenical Council when 787 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,679 it came to iconography. They never understood or accepted the 788 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,800 theology of the Council, because the theology of the Seventh 789 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:15,760 Ecminical Council is literally bound up with our Christology, our 790 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,719 you know, fasting and assetic practices. In other words, what's 791 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,360 appropriate for in the church. Obviously, nude people everywhere is 792 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,920 not appropriate for the church. Hence why they have all 793 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:31,039 this nonsense of histrionic women, saints right, and spiritual orgasms. 794 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,840 None of that exists in the Orgied Church. I'm being serious, 795 00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:37,119 Theresa of Abel and all those people, right, That's because 796 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,519 the Roman Church only gave verbal credence to the Seventh 797 00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:44,320 Echeminical Council and never cared about the actual theology and 798 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:51,599 banning pagan art for iconographic purposes. So sacred art is fine, 799 00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:54,519 it just has no place in other words, like Christian 800 00:53:54,679 --> 00:53:56,920 art work. You know, if I'm gonna paint you know, 801 00:53:57,119 --> 00:54:02,199 Paul preaching in a you know, I don't know, Rembrandts 802 00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:05,239 style where Paul's preaching right to the pagans or something. 803 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,880 There's nothing wrong with any of that. It just doesn't 804 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,400 belong in the liturgical setting of the church. 805 00:54:11,079 --> 00:54:13,320 Speaker 36: I gotcha, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be blessed by 806 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,079 a priest at that point. And then of course you 807 00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:15,679 couldn't use it. 808 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:16,360 Speaker 12: Like in the church. 809 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,159 Speaker 9: Well, I don't know if what you mean by blessed 810 00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:23,960 by a priest, because I mean you could you could 811 00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:28,360 say that, you know, Like the imagery is like for example, 812 00:54:28,679 --> 00:54:33,880 it just it depends, right, So like this image, for example, 813 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,920 the famous image of you know, Adam and Eve touch 814 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,360 or excuse me, God touching Adam. This is a heterodox 815 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:46,039 image because it's presenting God the Father as if he's 816 00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:51,519 this old man that creates Adam. When Adam is created 817 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,119 on the image and in the prototype of Christ, there 818 00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:00,360 is no incarnate God, the Father, the Father is never incarnate. 819 00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:02,800 Speaker 8: You see. Oh yeah, I never thought about that. 820 00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:05,519 Speaker 9: Yeah, And if you read the later icon count like 821 00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:08,800 for so, in the sixteen hundreds in Russia they had 822 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,559 really big icon councils. They're not ecumenical councils, but they're 823 00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:16,079 still very important for Orthodox iconography, and they were having 824 00:55:16,119 --> 00:55:21,840 to deal with UH Jesuit promoted Western heterodox iconography coming 825 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,599 into Russia and Eastern churches. And the point was that 826 00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:28,159 a lot of these icons were intended to teach Philly okuay, 827 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,480 and so you have he in the Orthox church. You 828 00:55:30,519 --> 00:55:34,039 have heterodox icons, and there's many of them that makes sense. Yeah, 829 00:55:34,119 --> 00:55:37,119 there's one called h like I forget all the names. 830 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,840 This is in volume two of the Lost lostky Alspensky 831 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,199 book on icons. There's a whole chapter on heterodox icons. 832 00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:46,280 And part of the decision again had to do with, 833 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,440 you know, not having images of God the Father. So anyway, 834 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,440 does that answer your questions that I said, I. 835 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,719 Speaker 12: Really appreciate that, Jay, and I got another one here. 836 00:55:58,079 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 36: This is a maybe this will get some of the 837 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,400 UH Muslim folks spun up for some debates here. 838 00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:04,920 Speaker 12: I don't know. 839 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,639 Speaker 36: I noticed the contradiction in the Kuran that I wanted 840 00:56:08,639 --> 00:56:11,800 to share with you. Sure, and and might maybe you 841 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,199 could say if it's a good contradiction or you know whatever. 842 00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:18,920 But so there's a surah which is two to one, yeah, 843 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,199 two two one two two to one, and it states 844 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,599 that Muslim men cannot marry polytheistic women. 845 00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 19: Okay. 846 00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:32,400 Speaker 36: And and as you know, many Muslim apologists will argue 847 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,559 that the Trinity is a form of polytheism. 848 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,199 Speaker 9: Sure, actually the Koran. 849 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:36,440 Speaker 8: Says it is. 850 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,800 Speaker 12: Yeah, the exactly the Koran says it is. 851 00:56:39,599 --> 00:56:44,519 Speaker 36: In Surah five five, it states explicitly that Muslim men 852 00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:49,519 can marry Christian and Jewish women. This is this Allah 853 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,639 confirming that there is something correct about the Trinity. 854 00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 9: In other words, if you can marry Christian women, then 855 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,280 Christianity is not polytheis exactly. 856 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,320 Speaker 36: It's either it's either Alla didn't know that the trinity 857 00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:08,199 or that he approved of it. And you know, there's 858 00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,599 a bill the like to site the like to site 859 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,880 a further exegesis by Umar and he was a companion 860 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,679 of Muhammad, and he states that it's best not to 861 00:57:18,719 --> 00:57:21,960 marry Christian women because because of their doctrine on trinity. 862 00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,280 So he says you should you should avoid Mary and 863 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,639 Christian women. Luckily, Allah thought about that in his greatness. 864 00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:32,840 In ser five eighty seven, it was revealed that Allah said, 865 00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,400 you should not forbid yourself for all the things. 866 00:57:36,159 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 12: That have been made lawful to you. For Allah is great. 867 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,519 Speaker 9: Nice. Yeah, now I pulled up each of these texts 868 00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:47,679 so everybody can see on screen the three texts that 869 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,159 he's mentioned. All of these have been pulled up for you. 870 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,079 So there's a very clear contradiction and what it actually shows, 871 00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:56,559 which we've known for many years. And as Kai has 872 00:57:56,599 --> 00:58:00,719 shown in his early or watching out of videos, the 873 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,960 Qoran and Muhammad did not understand the Trinity. Even if 874 00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,159 you think the Trinity is wrong, we would at least 875 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,000 expect the Koran to get what the Christians believe correct. 876 00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,679 But they don't. Well why would they not at least 877 00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:16,840 get it correct? Isn't all knowing? I mean again, even 878 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,400 if it's false, you could at least state the doctrine correctly, right. 879 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:27,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, exactly, I mean, and he would know all versions. 880 00:58:26,719 --> 00:58:29,320 Speaker 9: Of Christianity, all versions, Oh exactly right, he would know 881 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,440 all the sacks, all the different groups correct. 882 00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:32,320 Speaker 12: Yeah. 883 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,440 Speaker 36: So there's even you know, modalism, which which I don't 884 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,880 know if you'd even consider that trinitarian or not, but 885 00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:41,599 you know, there's so many versions of it that surely 886 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,400 one might be justifiable at anyway. 887 00:58:45,679 --> 00:58:47,760 Speaker 9: That's a great contradiction. I appreciate. I wasn't aware of 888 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,239 that one, but yeah, it does seem like it would 889 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,480 be an outright contradiction. So I appreciate that. A we're 890 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,559 going to try the Mormon guy again if maybe he's 891 00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:57,599 got a better connection. There's not a delay. What's up man? 892 00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:09,599 You there? You want I'm mute? 893 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:11,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm back. 894 00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:16,519 Speaker 9: Sorry, Okay, So let me restate what I was trying 895 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:18,920 to argue to you. It's a false equivalence to say 896 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,679 that because Jesus says I'm the one that spoke through 897 00:59:21,719 --> 00:59:24,440 all those prophets in the Old Testament. That's not the 898 00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:27,760 same thing as Joseph Smith saying, oh, let me add 899 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,599 a few verses to the last chapter of Genesis to 900 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,559 predict me. That's totally that's a false equivalence, very different. 901 00:59:34,639 --> 00:59:34,920 Speaker 16: Okay. 902 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 19: See, you're saying like the problem is adding. 903 00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:41,320 Speaker 9: Scripture, right, Well, it's not just that, but it's also 904 00:59:41,559 --> 00:59:44,519 a con man element that obviously nothing in the Book 905 00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:46,960 of Genesis is talking about Joseph Smith. And what he's 906 00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:50,079 doing is because the last chapter is about Joseph the patriarch, 907 00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:56,559 he's tagging himself in there because it says Joseph, sure, sure, 908 00:59:56,719 --> 01:00:01,039 you're okay with that? Yeah, all right, Well then I mean, 909 01:00:01,079 --> 01:00:02,719 if if it's okay to be a con man and 910 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,239 be a fraud, then we can all do that. But 911 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,320 that is what that is. Do you do you think 912 01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,559 Genesis is talking about you just admitted you admitted Genesis 913 01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:14,079 is not talking about Joseph Smith. 914 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Right, not in the text? 915 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,440 Speaker 9: We have no then then that's a con man fraud operation. 916 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:21,159 Speaker 8: It can be. 917 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:26,519 Speaker 34: But again, you know, non Christians Christians. 918 01:00:26,239 --> 01:00:28,360 Speaker 9: This is do you know what a fallacy is? Do 919 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,440 you know what a fallacy is? 920 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:30,519 Speaker 23: What? 921 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:31,599 Speaker 9: What's a fallacy? 922 01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 19: Formal or informal? 923 01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:36,440 Speaker 9: Informal is fine. 924 01:00:37,519 --> 01:00:42,159 Speaker 34: Informal is two logical propositions that do not necessarily connect 925 01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:43,800 to the conclusion. 926 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:48,000 Speaker 9: Right, So the fact that people in other religions don't 927 01:00:48,039 --> 01:00:51,519 accept Jesus' claims has nothing to do with whether or 928 01:00:51,559 --> 01:00:55,880 not Joseph Smith's adding verses makes him still a potential prophet. 929 01:00:56,079 --> 01:01:01,880 Those are two totally disconnected. What does the attitude of Jews. 930 01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:02,239 Speaker 25: Have to do with this. 931 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,800 Speaker 19: It's just that they use the same argument, right, So. 932 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,239 Speaker 9: What how does that make it a good argument? 933 01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:11,679 Speaker 8: I don't know. 934 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,039 Speaker 34: You think it's a good enough argument to use against 935 01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:15,079 Joseph Smith, Right. 936 01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 9: No, I just showed you that it's a false equivalence. 937 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:19,280 It's not the same thing. 938 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,360 Speaker 8: It's not quite the same. 939 01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:24,199 Speaker 9: No, it's totally different. Jesus is not just saying that, 940 01:01:24,719 --> 01:01:27,800 let me retroactively find a few verses that might hint 941 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,880 at me. He's saying, I literally spoke the entire Old Testament. 942 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,079 Peter says that it was the spirit of Christ who 943 01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:37,159 spoke through all the Old Testament prophets. Joseph Smith is 944 01:01:37,199 --> 01:01:39,760 not doing that. Joseph Smith is saying the last chapter 945 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,880 of Genesis, it's about the patriarch Joseph. Oh, by the way, 946 01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:47,119 here's ten extra verses about me, Joseph. That's fraud, con 947 01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:47,760 men stuff. 948 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,760 Speaker 34: Maybe Joseph did have such a prophecy in Genesis, unless 949 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,880 you think it's a full account of everything. 950 01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:56,159 Speaker 9: Happened to You just admitted a minute ago that Genesis 951 01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:57,480 is not talking about Joseph Smith. 952 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,800 Speaker 19: Yes, because it's not a full account. 953 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,199 Speaker 9: A full account, it has nothing to do with Joseph Smith. 954 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,679 Speaker 34: I do not know whether Joseph in Egypt had her 955 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,360 personal prophecy about Joseph Smith. 956 01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:13,440 Speaker 9: You just admitted that Joseph Smith added those verses and 957 01:02:13,519 --> 01:02:15,199 you said we don't have to accept that as a Mormon. 958 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,519 Now you're trying to say, well, maybe it can be counted, 959 01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:18,840 so you're flip flopping. 960 01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:24,400 Speaker 34: No, please, please listen, I don't know whether Joseph had 961 01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:25,159 this prophecy. 962 01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:28,480 Speaker 9: You just said a minute ago that you don't have 963 01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:31,480 to believe those as a Mormon, did you not, Yes, 964 01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:34,679 And now you're flipping the argument and saying that, well, 965 01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:39,039 maybe actually Joseph did have a prophecy of Joseph Smith. 966 01:02:40,159 --> 01:02:43,159 Speaker 8: Okay, how is that different from we don't have to believe. 967 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,519 Speaker 9: It, because now you're admitting that it was a prophecy, 968 01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:48,280 when a minute ago you said that Joseph Smith might 969 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:52,480 have actually just added those things. Which one is it? No, 970 01:02:52,679 --> 01:02:57,400 you've contradicted which one is it? You're moving the gold 971 01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,320 post in the middle of the argument. Which one is it? 972 01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:05,239 Speaker 13: Uh? 973 01:03:05,519 --> 01:03:09,039 Speaker 34: Personally, I would say, if you'd let me finish that 974 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,559 it was Joseph likening the scriptures on chin cell and 975 01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,719 God kind of speaking to. 976 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,480 Speaker 19: Him as if this was true scripture and using it. 977 01:03:18,599 --> 01:03:22,599 Speaker 34: To teach Joseph Smith something about Joseph Smith not necessarily 978 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:23,800 completely suid. 979 01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:25,639 Speaker 9: All right, we're out here, We're done. This is the 980 01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:33,199 dumbesth I've ever heard. Later, yeah, yeah, goodbye. He literally 981 01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,880 changed the argument, right, So when the first argument that, look, 982 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,000 we're more Mormons, don't have to believe this. This could 983 01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:43,039 be Joseph Smith just being creative and kind of retroactively 984 01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:46,039 finding himself in the Old Testament. Excuse me, finding himself 985 01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:49,599 in the Old Testament retroactively. And then he flips it 986 01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:54,000 and says, well, it actually could be a prophecy of him. Now, 987 01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:56,559 which one is it? You said ten minutes ago, you 988 01:03:56,599 --> 01:03:59,159 don't have to believe it. It's just jose Smith being 989 01:03:59,239 --> 01:04:04,320 creative in a you know, retroactive prose way. Well, now 990 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,840 it's actually a prophecy, and the patriarch Joseph was predicting 991 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:13,840 Joseph Smith. So you just contradicted yourself. Vinny, I want 992 01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,920 people to disagree today. Okay, if you're here with your 993 01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:20,000 catechumen orthodox questions, take those to your priests. 994 01:04:24,039 --> 01:04:27,079 Speaker 37: Jay I had a question. It was about logical fallacies. 995 01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:29,199 If you want to I'll just step down and wait 996 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,519 for another time. 997 01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:31,239 Speaker 9: What's the question? 998 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:37,719 Speaker 37: There are questions about the tag position. So in the nutshell, 999 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,559 we're arguing as a as Christian's logic, ethics, and science 1000 01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:45,719 are grounded in the triune God or the Christian paradigm, 1001 01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,719 if you will, can the same grounding be applied to 1002 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:53,280 concepts like logical fallacies for example, that the gentlemen before 1003 01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,440 made one, or like circular reason, and what do we 1004 01:04:56,519 --> 01:05:01,559 attributed it attributed to? Is it God as He's revealed 1005 01:05:01,559 --> 01:05:04,639 in the scripture? Like how do we justify all of 1006 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:06,360 the fallacies that we know today? 1007 01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,639 Speaker 9: Well, fallacies are a violation of the principles of logic, 1008 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,239 So we don't have to justify fallacies. I'm not sure 1009 01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:16,960 what that means. We just have to demonstrate that the 1010 01:05:17,079 --> 01:05:19,960 principles of logic are the case. They are grounded in God. 1011 01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,320 They're grounded in the mind of God, the eternal mind 1012 01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,559 of God, and so that's what gives them their permanence, 1013 01:05:25,199 --> 01:05:27,760 their stability. They don't evolve and turn into the opposite 1014 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,760 of themselves, and so any fallacy is merely a violation 1015 01:05:32,199 --> 01:05:34,239 of those principles of logic. So you don't have to 1016 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,960 you don't have to quote justify fallacies. You justify the 1017 01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:41,119 logical principles, and then by extension, any fallacy is a 1018 01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,599 violation of those principles. Nectarios. 1019 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 8: Hello God, yep, let's if you say. 1020 01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,519 Speaker 19: I was gonna have a question, but I'll just actually 1021 01:05:58,559 --> 01:05:58,920 just take. 1022 01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:59,440 Speaker 8: It to my priests. 1023 01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,199 Speaker 19: But I do want to make a comment real quick. 1024 01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:05,599 Sure you know Protestants also make that same marketing. 1025 01:06:05,639 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 8: Well, the Jews says this, and the Jews. 1026 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,000 Speaker 9: Now the Muslims remember that, I've had multiple Muslims say 1027 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,920 Jews don't accept the prophecies of Christ in the Old Testament. 1028 01:06:14,639 --> 01:06:18,840 So yeah, exactly, this is totally irrelevant, totally, but what 1029 01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:19,480 about But what. 1030 01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:22,159 Speaker 38: About the Jews who will then convert to Orthodox and 1031 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,079 say no, the Orthodox and justified. 1032 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,039 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's arbitrary, Like why yeah, what about those Jews? 1033 01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:28,360 And by the way, Jews don't accept the Book of Mormon, 1034 01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:29,920 so like what is that? What does that have to 1035 01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:30,360 do with earth? 1036 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 20: And also, I don't Mormons don't even accept the Bible anyways, 1037 01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,880 I've had tons of conversations with Mormon. 1038 01:06:37,519 --> 01:06:39,719 Speaker 9: No, it's a stupid cult that they say. Once you 1039 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,480 start talking to him, then it turns out they'll tell you, Oh, well, 1040 01:06:42,519 --> 01:06:44,639 by the way, the Bible has errors in it, and 1041 01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:46,559 the Book of Mormon fixes all that. Right, So it's 1042 01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:51,000 just like it's just like Islam. Mormonism is an American 1043 01:06:51,119 --> 01:06:57,320 prairie muffin Islam Manuel. What's up? The only difference, by 1044 01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,400 the way, is that you know, actually I was going 1045 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,239 to say, is is you know not. Actually Islam is polytheistic. 1046 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:08,480 That's the real, honest truth. So just like Mormonism is polytheistic. 1047 01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:11,119 You have multiple God. God the Father was once a body, 1048 01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:14,159 had a body, and it was impregnating women, all this nonsense, 1049 01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:18,679 and he attained to God the Father status. I mean, 1050 01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:24,000 it's literally just like Greek It's like religious marvel universe shit. 1051 01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:28,440 When you really understand Mormonism, it's completely stupid. Go ahead, 1052 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:42,239 I'm mute, challenger. You can support the stream, by the way, 1053 01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:46,559 by super chats. The super chat link is it's a marvel. 1054 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,960 It's like silver Surfer religion or some shit. What's up, man? 1055 01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,599 Speaker 39: Yeah, So I'm just curious on the transcendental argument for 1056 01:07:55,719 --> 01:07:59,440 God right now, I'd say I'm more of an agnostic, 1057 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:06,320 and my main issue with a positive claim of God 1058 01:08:07,079 --> 01:08:11,880 is that even you admit that God is a circular 1059 01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:16,760 argument and you use God to justify logic, to justify 1060 01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,079 morality and all these things. 1061 01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:21,359 Speaker 9: Yeah, well, how about I just use the term recursive 1062 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,640 or self referencing? Is that better than circular because everybody 1063 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,199 gets tripped up on the word or the terminology. We're 1064 01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:30,640 just pointing out that at a basic level, everybody's argumentation 1065 01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,239 will bottom out and you will have something that's self referencing. 1066 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,399 So let's say, for example, we want to do linguistic philosophy. 1067 01:08:39,159 --> 01:08:43,079 Can I do linguistic philosophy without using words? Or if 1068 01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:46,279 we talk about meta loogic, can I talk about how 1069 01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,039 logic works or how logic exists without assuming some form 1070 01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:53,960 of logic? No, it's impossible. Is that circular? No, it's 1071 01:08:54,039 --> 01:08:57,680 simply pointing out that at a different level of analysis, 1072 01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,880 or at a different at a meta level, you must 1073 01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:04,720 assume the things in question. So it's not circular argumentation 1074 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,199 in the classic sense of a violating of a law 1075 01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,880 of logic. That's like mundane normal types of argumentation. It's 1076 01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:16,119 because it's a different type of category question, which necessitates 1077 01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:19,199 using the thing in question. That's why it's not circularity. 1078 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,720 Speaker 39: Okay, but couldn't you say that for anything else, like 1079 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,680 you need to use you need to use words to 1080 01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,239 justify using words. 1081 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,560 Speaker 9: It's a category error. Do you understand that there's two 1082 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:34,359 different There's a difference between studying logic and meta loogic. 1083 01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,479 Those are two different types of questions. Do you know 1084 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:37,119 what that means? 1085 01:09:39,239 --> 01:09:43,279 Speaker 8: No, I'm not super well read on philosophy. 1086 01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:45,159 Speaker 19: I'm just wondering because on it. 1087 01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:47,119 Speaker 9: That's the point right there at what you don't understand 1088 01:09:47,119 --> 01:09:48,439 I'm telling I'm not trying to be rude to you, 1089 01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,079 but I'm telling you that that's what you're misunderstanding. You're 1090 01:09:51,119 --> 01:09:56,159 assuming that, for example, fallacies across the board apply in 1091 01:09:56,319 --> 01:09:59,319 every single type of situation or case, and there a 1092 01:09:59,359 --> 01:10:01,760 certain situation where they don't apply. Let me give you 1093 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,199 an example. We all agree that ad hominem is a fallacy, 1094 01:10:05,319 --> 01:10:10,720 right sure, Let's say that we're debating in one situation, 1095 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:15,840 a case where the thing in question is precisely someone's character. 1096 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,119 And so let's say we're debating, you know, the character 1097 01:10:19,239 --> 01:10:22,560 of Bill Cosby, and I bring to the table all 1098 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,119 of these arguments about how Bill Cosby is a for 1099 01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:29,279 the sake of argument, a piece of crap he you know, 1100 01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:33,199 is drugging people, graping them, et cetera. Well, wait a minute, 1101 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,760 is that ad hominem for me to do that? 1102 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,760 Speaker 39: Oh, I mean you're you're referring to the subject at hand, which. 1103 01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:46,479 Speaker 9: Is yes, exactly So in this case, because it's a 1104 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,000 unique situation, it's not at hominem because precisely what's in 1105 01:10:50,119 --> 01:10:53,359 question is the character of the person. So likewise, if 1106 01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:56,560 we say, in the question of logic, right, if I 1107 01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,119 ask a metalogical question, which is about the status of 1108 01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:04,479 logic itself, what's the ontological status of logic? I cannot 1109 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:09,000 do that without assuming logic to reason about it. So 1110 01:11:09,119 --> 01:11:12,800 it's not circular because it's simply unavoidable in a meta 1111 01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:13,560 type of question. 1112 01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:16,319 Speaker 14: Okay, So. 1113 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,560 Speaker 39: I mean again, logic is necessary is kind of what 1114 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,279 you're saying, And you're saying that logic would come from 1115 01:11:23,359 --> 01:11:25,359 God because I've seen some of your videos. 1116 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,159 Speaker 9: I've said those things, but those things don't relate to 1117 01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:31,960 what I'm saying right here. This is just a category mistake. Right, 1118 01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:34,560 So do you know what we mean by meta questions? 1119 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:35,159 What that means? 1120 01:11:37,359 --> 01:11:39,359 Speaker 8: A question about questioning. 1121 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,399 Speaker 9: No, a question about the status of something like the 1122 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,399 like the ontological status is something you know what that 1123 01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:47,920 means they're doing. I'm not trying to put you on 1124 01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,359 the spot of me it make you. I'm just literally 1125 01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:51,359 trying to explain. I'm not trying to be rude to you, 1126 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,920 but are you familiar with that term of like what 1127 01:11:54,079 --> 01:11:55,079 a meta question is? 1128 01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:56,920 Speaker 13: Uh? 1129 01:11:57,079 --> 01:12:00,319 Speaker 9: No, Okay? So, like if I'm doing mathematics and I'm 1130 01:12:00,319 --> 01:12:03,560 doing two plus two equals four, I'm doing basic arithmetic, right, 1131 01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,760 that's a different question from when I say what is 1132 01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,279 the number two or the number four? So that's a 1133 01:12:12,359 --> 01:12:16,279 different type of question. It's a meta level question where 1134 01:12:16,319 --> 01:12:19,840 I'm asking not what weather two plus two equals four? 1135 01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:24,079 But what is the ontological status of the number two 1136 01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:27,439 or the number four. That's the point is that TAG 1137 01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,039 is operating at that higher meta level, and so it 1138 01:12:31,159 --> 01:12:34,600 is necessarily recursive or self referencing. If you want to 1139 01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,319 throw out the word circular, go ahead. That's all we mean. 1140 01:12:39,319 --> 01:12:41,600 Speaker 19: Okay, But I mean I'm just saying that. 1141 01:12:43,119 --> 01:12:47,600 Speaker 39: If you're gonna say that you can't do logic without that, right, right, 1142 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,680 I mean I don't see how that's. 1143 01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,680 Speaker 9: The case, Like, it's obviously the case. You don't understand 1144 01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:59,760 this like, because logic is necessary for all reasoning and 1145 01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,600 all propositions and all meaning and all predications. So if 1146 01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,239 I'm going to reason about logic, I have to assume 1147 01:13:05,279 --> 01:13:08,079 that logic is the case. You can't make sentences without logic. 1148 01:13:08,119 --> 01:13:10,800 You don't know that, No, I do know that. Okay, 1149 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,520 then you just prove my point. Thank you. You prove 1150 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:12,960 the point. 1151 01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,319 Speaker 8: What does that have to do with God? Though? 1152 01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,640 Speaker 9: Like what, we're not at God yet. I'm just trying 1153 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,279 to demonstrate the category error. You're not going to understand 1154 01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:23,479 the argument for God until you understand the mistake you're 1155 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,199 making about the category error. First. I'm trying to demonstrate 1156 01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:27,000 that to you first. 1157 01:13:32,359 --> 01:13:33,640 Speaker 8: Okay, there's a cat. 1158 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,479 Speaker 9: Like what I literally just explained all of that to you. Alright, 1159 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:46,640 We're moving on next up MKG hey, j yep. 1160 01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,239 Speaker 19: I just wanted to say first, thank you for the 1161 01:13:49,279 --> 01:13:50,039 book recognition. 1162 01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:54,199 Speaker 20: I just got my copy of the mcgotting books controversy. 1163 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,279 Speaker 9: Yeah, that will solve a lot of you know, like 1164 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,159 Protestant or you know, Chrystal logically that people have. 1165 01:14:02,319 --> 01:14:05,960 Speaker 19: My argument free right now though, is regarding the law. 1166 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:14,119 Speaker 20: So what's happening specifically for a circumcision and I'm basically 1167 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:20,319 looking at Acts fifteen, Genesis seventeen, Relation two, Enrollment seven, 1168 01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:25,840 and this I feel like this is I don't feel 1169 01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:30,199 but based on my reading, it seems that Paul is 1170 01:14:30,319 --> 01:14:34,399 having this kind of tug of war happening where he's 1171 01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,760 not rejecting the law, but he's not saying the law 1172 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:39,880 is the be all end all. 1173 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:45,640 Speaker 19: I'm having a hard time seeing how he justifies the 1174 01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,279 cessation of circumcision. 1175 01:14:49,279 --> 01:14:55,159 Speaker 9: Well, because circumcision is itself a limiting right, women cannot 1176 01:14:55,159 --> 01:14:59,319 be circumcised. And his argument in Colautions, if you Readclautions, 1177 01:14:59,359 --> 01:15:02,399 is very clear that the right of circumcision itself is 1178 01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,239 a type of the right of baptism of the New Testament. 1179 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:09,039 And so because circumcision was specifically the right of initiation 1180 01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:12,920 for males in Israel for that Covenant. If the Covenant 1181 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,720 is to be expanded and open up to all of 1182 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,119 the gentile nations and it's going to include women, obviously 1183 01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:21,159 it cannot be circumcisions. So what is the new circumcision. 1184 01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:24,479 The new circumcision is baptism, which is something very easy 1185 01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:28,159 and accessible water right, which can include both men and women. 1186 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,920 And so when you read Jeremiah thirty one and Jeremiah 1187 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:35,079 thirty three in the Masoretic version, not in the Orthodox version. 1188 01:15:35,079 --> 01:15:36,439 I don't know what the chapters are off the top 1189 01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:38,680 of my head in the Orthodox version, but those two 1190 01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,560 chapters that speak of the new covenant. When the Messiah comes, 1191 01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,039 it says it will not be according to the covenant 1192 01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:48,039 with Moses. So there will be a new covenant, specifically 1193 01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:52,000 contrasted to the covenant that they had at Sinai. And 1194 01:15:52,119 --> 01:15:54,640 that necessitates then, according to the reasoning of Paul in 1195 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,600 all of his epistles, not just in Roman's Regulations, but 1196 01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,920 in all of the epistles, the totality ugmentation is, especially Hebrews, 1197 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,720 is that the rights themselves also have to be transformed 1198 01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:08,279 such that these rights can go to all of the nations. 1199 01:16:09,039 --> 01:16:14,239 And if you have it essentially still Judaic, it's too limiting. 1200 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,800 And that's part of the logic and the argmentation of 1201 01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:21,399 Acts fifteen, which is that if Noah has made righteous before, 1202 01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,279 or what's gonna be without circumcision, then we ought not 1203 01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,680 require of the gentiles coming into the church anything more 1204 01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:29,640 than what was required of Noah. That's the logic of 1205 01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:30,239 Acts fifteen. 1206 01:16:32,079 --> 01:16:38,439 Speaker 20: But my problem here is isn't there a progressive righteousness 1207 01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:43,880 with every generation that comes. Isn't Peter more honored than 1208 01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:45,760 David in some sense? 1209 01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:49,039 Speaker 9: No, I don't know where you where that comes from, 1210 01:16:49,079 --> 01:16:51,600 because I mean the Hebrews eleven when it describes the 1211 01:16:52,039 --> 01:16:56,239 heavenly Jerusalem, they are classed as saints along with us. 1212 01:16:57,159 --> 01:17:03,239 Speaker 20: Okay, but specifically the covenant of circumcision that starts with Abraham, 1213 01:17:03,399 --> 01:17:04,239 not with Moses. 1214 01:17:04,359 --> 01:17:04,680 Speaker 19: Correct. 1215 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, but Noah has made righteous without prior to circumcision. 1216 01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:15,720 Speaker 20: But from a Christian's perspective, don't we believe in progressive revelation? 1217 01:17:17,119 --> 01:17:20,479 Speaker 9: Yeah? But the argument of Acts fifteen is that the 1218 01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,680 precisely what is the progression is the opening of that 1219 01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:27,159 covenant to the nations. And there's a direct connection between 1220 01:17:27,199 --> 01:17:30,600 the Abrahamic and the Mosaic because circumcision is the right 1221 01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:34,279 of that covenant right until we get the new Covenant 1222 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,680 that was appropriate for that time because God was still 1223 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,600 working primarily with a single nation state as his church. 1224 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,119 The Church of the Old Testament is Israel, the nation state. 1225 01:17:45,399 --> 01:17:48,159 But once Israel has fulfilled its mission, which is to 1226 01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:51,199 produce the Messiah, then it has fulfilled what it was 1227 01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:54,840 intended to do by the way circumcision also fulfills what 1228 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:56,640 it was intended to do. And if you look at 1229 01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:58,000 the Book of Luke, and if you look at the 1230 01:17:58,079 --> 01:18:04,960 Orthodox liturgy, circumcis decision is fulfilled in Jesus being circumcised. 1231 01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:09,600 In other words, the prediction of circumcision itself, whether when 1232 01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,880 it's given to Abraham in Genesis or whether it's anything 1233 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:19,119 else in the Mosaic, comminent circumcision is done when Jesus 1234 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,239 is circumcised in the Temple. 1235 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:22,840 Speaker 8: I see. 1236 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:27,840 Speaker 20: But now, my my argument for that is that, yes, 1237 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:31,199 it's clear that some of the law, the letter of 1238 01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:37,960 the law is fulfilled and actually represented as the spirit 1239 01:18:38,039 --> 01:18:38,439 of the law. 1240 01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:39,800 Speaker 8: It's it's it's. 1241 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,000 Speaker 19: True form is shown through the spirit of the law. 1242 01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:45,640 But there are still especially from the Orthodox perspective. 1243 01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:50,039 Speaker 9: Yeah, but the Church determines. The Church determines what The 1244 01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:54,680 Church determines what things carry over exactly, not Jews, not 1245 01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:59,479 Messianic Jews, not. The Church has determined that circumcision is 1246 01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:03,239 fulfilled in the circumcision of Christ and is replaced with baptism. 1247 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,239 Speaker 20: And my concern here is that if we were Protestants, 1248 01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,920 then this would be no issue and we could just 1249 01:19:11,039 --> 01:19:11,359 move on. 1250 01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,479 Speaker 9: But hold on, why would that be Why would that 1251 01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:15,880 be no issue for Protestants? 1252 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,720 Speaker 20: Because because Protestants put all their weight on the spirit 1253 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,920 of the law, and that's worth. 1254 01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:24,520 Speaker 9: There is no first of all, there is no one 1255 01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,479 Protestant that does that. In fact, many Protestants are judaizing 1256 01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,319 sex which don't do that. So I don't even I 1257 01:19:30,359 --> 01:19:37,159 wouldn't even agree with that argument. Okay, if if the 1258 01:19:37,279 --> 01:19:41,720 Apostles are given the authority to determine and interpret the 1259 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,319 texts and decide what carries over and what doesn't, that's 1260 01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:48,279 all you need to know that circumcision doesn't carry over. 1261 01:19:49,119 --> 01:19:50,119 Speaker 8: Okay, But but. 1262 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:57,000 Speaker 20: What the church uses as justification for why circumcision doesn't 1263 01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:57,439 carry over? 1264 01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:03,399 Speaker 19: Does it not rest mainly on Paul's arguments? I guess 1265 01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:04,079 that's my question. 1266 01:20:04,359 --> 01:20:07,600 Speaker 9: No, the apostles are arguing that circumcision was done and 1267 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,319 fulfilled when Jesus was circumcised. 1268 01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:13,439 Speaker 20: But doesn't that's my question. Doesn't James disagree? And that's 1269 01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:15,880 where kind of the quarrel and Acts fifteen is happening. 1270 01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:20,560 Speaker 9: And no, what do you mean now what James? James 1271 01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:24,760 doesn't disagree, he agreed the council agrees with not requiring 1272 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:26,199 circumcisions for gentiles. 1273 01:20:26,279 --> 01:20:26,680 Speaker 25: What do you mean? 1274 01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,800 Speaker 20: But in the beginning of it, it's not a full agreement. 1275 01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,800 The Council is convening to say do we impose this 1276 01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,399 yorke or not? And then they come to a conclusion 1277 01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,880 that no, we shouldn't. The yoke shouldn't be asked of 1278 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:41,279 the gentiles. 1279 01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:41,680 Speaker 9: Yeah. 1280 01:20:42,079 --> 01:20:47,479 Speaker 19: So I'm saying that's that there is this intersection that's 1281 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:48,000 happening that. 1282 01:20:48,199 --> 01:20:50,640 Speaker 9: Yeah. So there's debates and then and Paul Paul rebukes 1283 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:51,840 Peter at the beginning Glatians. 1284 01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,640 Speaker 20: So I'm saying, I'm saying the sources Paul, Paul is 1285 01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:56,359 the rebuker. 1286 01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,000 Speaker 19: Paul is the one saying, no, what you guys are wrong, 1287 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:01,760 which shouldn't we shouldn't ask this of the genial? 1288 01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,840 Speaker 9: Okay? And do you think that Paul tricked the Council 1289 01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:06,640 in Acts fifteen to side with Paul. I mean, this 1290 01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,239 is this is a problem. What you're arguing is a 1291 01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:10,680 Protestant judaeic argument. 1292 01:21:11,239 --> 01:21:14,159 Speaker 20: And that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, here's the chorus 1293 01:21:14,279 --> 01:21:15,760 you here. Can saints be wrong? 1294 01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:19,319 Speaker 9: No not, Apostles can't be wrong? 1295 01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:19,439 Speaker 19: No? 1296 01:21:20,079 --> 01:21:20,119 Speaker 22: No? 1297 01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,159 Speaker 19: Okay, Well, first can saints be wrong. 1298 01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,119 Speaker 9: Well, saints are not equivalent to apostles, so yes, later 1299 01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:30,239 church fathers can be wrong the apostles. The apostles do 1300 01:21:30,359 --> 01:21:31,960 not teach error in this regard. 1301 01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:34,079 Speaker 19: No, apostles can be wrong. 1302 01:21:35,279 --> 01:21:38,560 Speaker 9: When there's like a counsel or an authoritative teaching that 1303 01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,880 makes its way into the scriptures. No, they don't teach wrong. 1304 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:42,279 Speaker 19: Because you know where I'm going with this. 1305 01:21:42,399 --> 01:21:44,800 Speaker 9: I think you're going to say, what that Paul, that 1306 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,640 Peter rebused wrong? Wrong, but they got rebuked and so 1307 01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,760 it didn't become part of scripture or the Council in 1308 01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:53,319 Acts fifteen Providential. 1309 01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:55,079 Speaker 19: This is this is my problem. 1310 01:21:55,159 --> 01:21:55,920 Speaker 8: This is my worry. 1311 01:21:56,199 --> 01:21:59,119 Speaker 9: I feel what is There's not a problem Peter. 1312 01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,680 Speaker 19: Is he and James can be wrong and Paul is right? 1313 01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,840 Speaker 9: Then no, you're missing the points. You're missing the point 1314 01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:10,359 they got something wrong but got corrected and none of 1315 01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:14,079 the wrong teaching made it into the Council or into scripture. 1316 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:19,680 Speaker 20: Well that's how the story ended. I'm pausing, and this 1317 01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,600 is all coming from Paul and Luke's point of view, And. 1318 01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,439 Speaker 9: Well you're why are you setting Paul and Luke against 1319 01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:28,079 everyone else? You have to trust the divine Providence. It's 1320 01:22:28,079 --> 01:22:30,720 the same faith that you have that stop interrupting. It's 1321 01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:34,039 the same faith that you have. The Divine Providence guided 1322 01:22:34,079 --> 01:22:37,960 the church in later centuries to collect the canon together. 1323 01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,439 So if you doubt this, then the whole religion goes. 1324 01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,319 I agree, But what reason is there to doubt this? 1325 01:22:44,399 --> 01:22:47,000 I don't understand the basis of delt This whole doubt 1326 01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:48,000 comes from. 1327 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,920 Speaker 19: Essentially why I think orthodoxy is appealing and. 1328 01:22:55,119 --> 01:22:59,079 Speaker 9: It's favorable over But what you're saying would make orthodoxy 1329 01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:01,479 false because it's a denial of the guidance of the 1330 01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:02,479 Holy Spirit in the Church. 1331 01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,359 Speaker 20: No, I'm saying, yeah, it's a continuous of it's the 1332 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:10,159 Orthodoxy's claim is that we're there, we're the true tradition, 1333 01:23:10,279 --> 01:23:11,920 we hold the oldest tradition. 1334 01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:13,640 Speaker 19: That's the orthodox cost. 1335 01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:15,199 Speaker 9: No, it's more than that. I mean, I'm saying that 1336 01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,039 in Acts too. There's a promise that the Holy Jesus 1337 01:23:19,279 --> 01:23:22,119 in the Gospel of John promises that the Holy Spirit 1338 01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:24,920 with leading God the Church into all truth. And that 1339 01:23:25,119 --> 01:23:28,720 happens primarily at a sonodal or communal level. Right, it's 1340 01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:33,239 not primarily individual people. Because yes, you can have Peter 1341 01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,279 thinking something wrong or getting something wrong, but providentially that 1342 01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,880 gets corrected and it never makes it into the teaching 1343 01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,520 of scripture, or into the teaching of the oral teaching 1344 01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,600 of the Church, or into the liturgy, or into the 1345 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:50,479 ecumenical Council. So there's never a dogmatic mistake. Even if 1346 01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,880 Peter at one point got something wrong, it's never dogmatized 1347 01:23:54,119 --> 01:23:57,079 or inscripturated that there's error. 1348 01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,439 Speaker 20: But would it be fair to say that you can 1349 01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:03,760 only that claim if we've already agreed on. 1350 01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:06,399 Speaker 19: That being the case. 1351 01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, you have to. Of course the presupposition 1352 01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:12,960 that the church is guided as part of that is 1353 01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:13,600 part of that assumption. 1354 01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:18,760 Speaker 19: Absolutely, But I'm speaking in the case itself priority. 1355 01:24:19,039 --> 01:24:21,760 Speaker 9: But you can't do that that that that's an invalid move. 1356 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,840 There is no but in this, There is no invalid there. 1357 01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,960 You can't have This is a Protestant type of argument, 1358 01:24:28,079 --> 01:24:29,960 or a Muslim type of argument, where you assume that 1359 01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:33,560 there is no guidance or holistic faith. There is this 1360 01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,880 possibility that they got it all wrong at Acts fifteen 1361 01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,039 because they followed Paul. Well, look if Paul, if Paul's wrong, 1362 01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:41,680 then Christianity is wrong. 1363 01:24:42,359 --> 01:24:44,079 Speaker 19: I guess this is this is where I'm coming from. 1364 01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:47,760 So you can see where how this relates the question 1365 01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:50,960 that you've posed to the Muslims or to. 1366 01:24:51,079 --> 01:24:55,479 Speaker 20: The Jews about or specifically the Muslims. At that point 1367 01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,000 of if I was a fifth, sixth, seventh century Jew 1368 01:24:59,079 --> 01:25:03,680 or Christian, how would I know what Muhammad's thing is true? 1369 01:25:05,199 --> 01:25:11,760 That's we're directly You're directly investigating the scripture. 1370 01:25:11,399 --> 01:25:15,600 Speaker 9: That's based on a consistency with prior revelation. So what 1371 01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,680 I'm arguing is precisely that Paul and Acts fifteen are 1372 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:23,760 consistent with prior revelation. Prior revelation itself is not teaching 1373 01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:27,720 that circumcision continues for all eternity, for all the nations. 1374 01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:29,680 It's not even possible to do that. How could the 1375 01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:33,760 Mosaic law, when most of it is confined to Palestine 1376 01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:36,039 and Israel and the Land of Israel, how could that 1377 01:25:36,119 --> 01:25:37,079 be for all the nations? 1378 01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:41,640 Speaker 19: No, I agree, But what I'm getting at is, let 1379 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:42,520 me focus the point. 1380 01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,960 Speaker 20: If I'm a Jew in the first century, and I'm 1381 01:25:46,039 --> 01:25:49,920 hearing this Gospel, and I'm hearing the I'm hearing the Act, 1382 01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:54,359 the Letter, I'm listening to the letters of Paul, how 1383 01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:58,439 can I investigate that? What Paul is thinking is consistent 1384 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:00,319 and has continuity. 1385 01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,479 Speaker 9: By going to the Old Testament texts and soon not. 1386 01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,520 Speaker 19: Just post facto of the Holy Spirit has. 1387 01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:09,119 Speaker 9: Protected because only that interpretation makes sense of the Old 1388 01:26:09,159 --> 01:26:10,800 Testament data in a coherent way. 1389 01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,600 Speaker 19: Because I have to have you read the Book of Hebrews, 1390 01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:17,479 the Book of Hebrews. 1391 01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:18,960 Speaker 8: What part are you the. 1392 01:26:19,119 --> 01:26:21,199 Speaker 9: Entire Book of Hebrews is making the point I'm making. 1393 01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:24,800 Speaker 19: Because I don't disagree. 1394 01:26:24,319 --> 01:26:26,840 Speaker 9: With did you have you read the Book of Hebrews? 1395 01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:29,920 You're not listening to what I'm saying, not not in 1396 01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:32,479 this entirety. No, you haven't read the bro I'm not 1397 01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,680 trying to be rude to you, but like you got 1398 01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:37,319 to go and read the New Testament at least before 1399 01:26:37,319 --> 01:26:40,319 you try to make this, before you try to argue this. Ukraine, 1400 01:26:40,359 --> 01:26:40,720 what's up? 1401 01:26:50,199 --> 01:26:57,880 Speaker 40: Yes, Hello, yep, yeah, this is Ukraine. Seven seven seven okay, yeah, 1402 01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:02,039 I have I have a question about I was reading 1403 01:27:02,319 --> 01:27:05,479 some church history and apparently in the year eleven eighty 1404 01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:06,800 two there was a raid on. 1405 01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,079 Speaker 8: It was actually by Orthodox. 1406 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:16,079 Speaker 40: Christians against certain Roman Catholics that were in Constantinople, and 1407 01:27:16,159 --> 01:27:18,239 they basically just killed everybody. 1408 01:27:19,199 --> 01:27:21,560 Speaker 9: And that that was part of the Yeah, I guess 1409 01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,600 one of the policism is true now because there was 1410 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,600 a one raid by some Greek Yeah, no, no, no, 1411 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:27,720 it's a really good argument. 1412 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,520 Speaker 40: You No, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying you know, 1413 01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:32,680 I mean, well they were, they were asking for it, 1414 01:27:33,079 --> 01:27:37,479 but you know, probably, but you know, should the church? 1415 01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:38,880 Speaker 8: Would it be appropriate? 1416 01:27:39,199 --> 01:27:42,479 Speaker 40: And did the Church ever repent of this or anything 1417 01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:46,359 or apologize for it or would that even be how. 1418 01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:50,600 Speaker 9: So if one nation, if the Greeks do something, are 1419 01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:51,800 we collectively guilty? 1420 01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,600 Speaker 40: No, that would just be presumably that would just be 1421 01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,800 that particular well, that would be that particular Holy see 1422 01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,720 it best. I mean, I'm antiop and so we never 1423 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,119 really we never had an emperor patronize us. 1424 01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:09,359 Speaker 8: We never really had enough power to abuse. 1425 01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,520 Speaker 9: What are you Ukrainian or are you pro Ukraine? I 1426 01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:18,239 don't understand what Ukraine saw, but I. 1427 01:28:18,399 --> 01:28:20,600 Speaker 40: Just put that in there because I just think that. 1428 01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,640 But I just think that that, you know, what Russia 1429 01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,479 did to Ukraine is grotesque and unfair. 1430 01:28:26,399 --> 01:28:29,760 Speaker 9: Well, what about the seven years of Western NATO provocation? 1431 01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:39,880 Speaker 40: Well, Obama blockaded all military to Ukraine from the get go. 1432 01:28:40,079 --> 01:28:42,079 Speaker 8: I mean, NATO wasn't this is. 1433 01:28:42,119 --> 01:28:47,199 Speaker 9: Prox this is this is proxy. The proxy stuff that 1434 01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:51,239 they did, including setting up those bio labs all along 1435 01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:52,640 the board of Russia. 1436 01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:57,279 Speaker 40: Those the footage from those, those were Soviet biolabs that 1437 01:28:57,399 --> 01:28:59,359 were built in the Soviet Union. 1438 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,439 Speaker 8: Ukraine ever built a single I'm. 1439 01:29:01,319 --> 01:29:03,840 Speaker 9: Not talking about Ukraine. I'm talking about the State Department 1440 01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:05,680 setting up biologe. You're saying that's all fake. 1441 01:29:07,359 --> 01:29:12,399 Speaker 8: Yeah, so what the they were found? There was one 1442 01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:14,000 found that they found one in. 1443 01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,520 Speaker 9: So you're a boomer who listens to Western mainstream Is 1444 01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,479 Trump a bad man too? Is a boomer media? 1445 01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:19,840 Speaker 8: True? 1446 01:29:20,119 --> 01:29:24,319 Speaker 9: No, no, no, but I mean all are we still 1447 01:29:24,359 --> 01:29:27,640 fighting the Cold War? Are we still fighting the KGB 1448 01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:28,439 and the Cold War? 1449 01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:31,960 Speaker 8: Unfortunately? Yes? 1450 01:29:32,399 --> 01:29:36,199 Speaker 9: The k Look, I mean, I mean, tell me, tell 1451 01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:38,319 me more about Is the c I a good Are 1452 01:29:38,359 --> 01:29:39,039 the the good guys? 1453 01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,000 Speaker 40: I'd say, I'd say that I'd put them into kind 1454 01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:44,199 of the. 1455 01:29:44,279 --> 01:29:46,760 Speaker 8: Gray category, neither neither black or white. 1456 01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:50,000 Speaker 9: But you know, what's the official policy of the West. 1457 01:29:50,159 --> 01:29:51,640 Speaker 8: That doesn't mean the Russians are worse. 1458 01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,119 Speaker 9: What's the official policy of the West when it comes 1459 01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:59,840 to things like Malthusianism, enthusianism. You don't even know. So 1460 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,000 you're a boomer expert on geopolitics. You don't know what 1461 01:30:02,079 --> 01:30:02,920 Malthusianism is. 1462 01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:07,720 Speaker 8: Mount malthus theory, that that's absolute. 1463 01:30:07,319 --> 01:30:12,680 Speaker 9: That's oh, that's obsolete. Really have you read people like, uh. 1464 01:30:12,279 --> 01:30:14,640 Speaker 8: Yeah, well that's the progressives or fools. 1465 01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,359 Speaker 9: I mean, I'm not talking about progressives. I'm talking about 1466 01:30:17,399 --> 01:30:22,600 like official Kissinger Deep you know, State Department Global two thousand. 1467 01:30:23,079 --> 01:30:26,319 You could read Miles Copeland's CIA Manuals where he talks 1468 01:30:26,359 --> 01:30:28,560 about the whole purpose of everything they're doing in these 1469 01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,479 countries is precisely for Malthusianism. 1470 01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:38,239 Speaker 40: Well, well, if Ukraine wants to join the empire, and 1471 01:30:38,359 --> 01:30:40,279 we want them to join the empire. 1472 01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:42,079 Speaker 9: Now now, now it's an empire. 1473 01:30:42,079 --> 01:30:42,439 Speaker 8: Empire. 1474 01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:46,239 Speaker 9: Now wait a minute, So America America is a wait 1475 01:30:46,239 --> 01:30:48,960 a minute, because the propaganda from people on your side 1476 01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,119 about ten years ago is that there is no American empire. 1477 01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:51,520 Speaker 8: Now it is. 1478 01:30:54,359 --> 01:30:56,439 Speaker 40: Well, they call it a coalition of the willing, but 1479 01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,039 that's a semantic debate. I mean, it's basically an empire. 1480 01:30:59,079 --> 01:31:00,880 I mean, why do you think you know they put 1481 01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,359 all this money into Israel. It's to hold that position. 1482 01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:05,760 It's to control those trade routes and Somber. 1483 01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,479 Speaker 9: Wait a minute, you're pro Israel, right because Israel supports 1484 01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,880 does Lenski and Ukraine, Well. 1485 01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:13,760 Speaker 8: We would hope it would be. Well, I'd rather have 1486 01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:15,000 them do it than us to it. 1487 01:31:15,119 --> 01:31:18,800 Speaker 40: But I mean that's one you would want if you're 1488 01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:20,720 running an empire, you would want one part of the 1489 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:22,159 empire to support the other. 1490 01:31:22,039 --> 01:31:22,880 Speaker 8: Part of the empire. 1491 01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:27,039 Speaker 9: So I mean we need want more skittles, more abrations. 1492 01:31:27,359 --> 01:31:30,520 Remember one Lenski said, what does Lenski say if you 1493 01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:34,840 are from blaw whether they want to run an empire, 1494 01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,279 you need large, healthy families where men or men and 1495 01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:40,640 women are women with traditional value. But you just said 1496 01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:41,439 you're pro Ukraine. 1497 01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,760 Speaker 8: Doing is insane. You just said you're pro Ukrainian's your 1498 01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:45,199 right wing. 1499 01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:46,399 Speaker 9: No they're not. 1500 01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:48,720 Speaker 40: I mean they're not all flat out Nazis, They're not 1501 01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,920 that right wing, but they are far more the typical 1502 01:31:52,079 --> 01:31:53,199 Ukrainian if. 1503 01:31:53,159 --> 01:31:56,840 Speaker 9: You ask like that, I mean like the Azol battalion 1504 01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:01,319 and right wing. The most Americans the battalion and right sector. 1505 01:32:01,359 --> 01:32:07,720 You like those guys, I understand them. Oh interesting, but 1506 01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,119 I thought you're pro Israel. Well, now what would you do? 1507 01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:13,039 Speaker 40: What would you do if you're if if if Chinese 1508 01:32:13,119 --> 01:32:16,720 soldiers were marching up and down, you know, God forbid 1509 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,159 invaded our country, you'd want something like the Michigan militia. 1510 01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:25,840 Speaker 9: To be there, right, quite so, Satanic minded like literal 1511 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,159 Satan tattooed dudes are the equivalent of the Michigan militia 1512 01:32:29,199 --> 01:32:29,640 in your mind. 1513 01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:33,880 Speaker 40: Yeah, Well, the Azop Battalion, they're neo Pagans. They're into 1514 01:32:34,039 --> 01:32:36,840 Norse mythology and that kind of thing. It's the old 1515 01:32:37,319 --> 01:32:41,720 the original pagan religion of Europe. The East Europe didn't 1516 01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:45,800 haven't have like inquisitions. So the witches were never burned 1517 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:47,600 at the stake. They just never went away. They were 1518 01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:52,439 always there. And some of them are left and the battalion, Uh, 1519 01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:54,800 you know that's what they are. 1520 01:32:55,039 --> 01:32:57,159 Speaker 9: Okay, So what's the origin roblem? 1521 01:32:57,359 --> 01:32:57,479 Speaker 8: Right? 1522 01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:01,279 Speaker 9: So the origin of all that right wing stuff in Ukraine? Like, 1523 01:33:01,319 --> 01:33:02,479 where do you think that comes from? 1524 01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:08,720 Speaker 8: It's the the what the azo and that's that's all that, 1525 01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:12,079 that whole sector instep of the indigenous prequel. 1526 01:33:12,119 --> 01:33:13,199 Speaker 1: No it's not, no, it's not. 1527 01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:17,159 Speaker 9: No, it's not Stepanic, No, it's not. I'm talking about 1528 01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:19,000 Steponic and right sector and all that. 1529 01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:25,359 Speaker 40: Well, they did, they did, they had to choose between 1530 01:33:25,399 --> 01:33:27,600 Hitler and Stalin, and they did go with the Axis 1531 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,279 Powers and the White Russians from World War Two. 1532 01:33:30,359 --> 01:33:32,319 Speaker 9: It goes back to that, right, So it's the Galen 1533 01:33:33,319 --> 01:33:35,159 It's Ryan our Galen's network. 1534 01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:35,119 Speaker 11: Right. 1535 01:33:37,359 --> 01:33:41,159 Speaker 40: Yeah, yeah, Bendarra's network and the you know people like that. 1536 01:33:41,359 --> 01:33:44,119 It goes back, you know, it goes I mean, but 1537 01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:46,520 if you think about it, if you're in World War 1538 01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:49,520 two and you have to choose between Hitler and Stalin. 1539 01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:51,359 Speaker 9: I just want you, as a boom, I just want 1540 01:33:51,359 --> 01:33:53,279 you as a boomer to admit that you're pro neo 1541 01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:54,640 in in Ukraine. 1542 01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,159 Speaker 40: Well, I think the kind I think the ninety when 1543 01:34:00,199 --> 01:34:03,199 borders are finding that they should be returned to and. 1544 01:34:03,359 --> 01:34:06,079 Speaker 9: You know, if you so, you're pro neo in at 1545 01:34:06,119 --> 01:34:08,399 the same time as pro Israel. Makes sense of that 1546 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:08,760 for me? 1547 01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:19,079 Speaker 40: Well, if in terms of supporting in terms of economics, 1548 01:34:19,239 --> 01:34:20,960 Israel is the money. 1549 01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,159 Speaker 9: Think Okay, so it's just about economics of course. The 1550 01:34:24,279 --> 01:34:28,640 classic classic boomer, right, classic boomer Thoughtian have. 1551 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,039 Speaker 8: The resources, the Ukrainians, they could give. 1552 01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:34,600 Speaker 9: Us more money. Yeah, exactly right. It's all about that money, 1553 01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,600 ain't it. Boomer? For years, do boomers care about anything 1554 01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:39,479 other than money? Do you guys care about anything other 1555 01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:40,000 than the money? 1556 01:34:40,119 --> 01:34:41,199 Speaker 8: How empires look? 1557 01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:45,640 Speaker 9: So now you're it's funny. These people were anti empire 1558 01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:47,439 and they would go after if you talked about empire 1559 01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,319 ten years ago. It's just funny. Now they're all about 1560 01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:50,760 and impart it's all about that. 1561 01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:54,119 Speaker 8: Well. 1562 01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:57,640 Speaker 40: I think you know people, I think the I think 1563 01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,520 people like to use too many euphemisms to be too 1564 01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:04,960 politically correct. I don't I'm not a fan of political correctness, 1565 01:35:05,079 --> 01:35:07,359 but I think the country, but I think the country 1566 01:35:07,399 --> 01:35:09,840 should honest. I think our country can do a better 1567 01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,760 job honestly describing what is our foreign policy and why 1568 01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:15,760 is and why do we do what we do? 1569 01:35:16,039 --> 01:35:19,319 Speaker 9: Wait a minute, are you pro so? Are you pro Trump? 1570 01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:21,359 Or were you pro? Were you pro Walt Kamala? 1571 01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,520 Speaker 8: Because no, I no, I voted for Trump. I voted 1572 01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:24,840 for him. 1573 01:35:25,159 --> 01:35:27,840 Speaker 9: But doesn't Trump want to end the Ukraine conflict? So 1574 01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:29,239 isn't that a bad move on his plots? 1575 01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:31,279 Speaker 8: I hope he. 1576 01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:32,279 Speaker 13: I think he. 1577 01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:35,079 Speaker 40: I he did a good job on the Abraham Accords 1578 01:35:35,079 --> 01:35:37,600 with the Israelis in the Southeast. If he can get 1579 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,960 those guys talking to each other, I'm sure he could 1580 01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,079 reason with Zelenski and Putin. I mean they're not nearly 1581 01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,119 they neither one of them is half as crazy as 1582 01:35:46,199 --> 01:35:47,960 as it is down in the Middle East. 1583 01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:50,840 Speaker 9: I mean, what if, what if the root of the 1584 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:54,239 problem is boomers like yourself. What if you are the 1585 01:35:54,319 --> 01:35:54,960 root of the problem. 1586 01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,920 Speaker 40: I didn't order, I didn't order, and I didn't order 1587 01:36:00,039 --> 01:36:01,560 Ussia to be in that country. 1588 01:36:01,279 --> 01:36:07,800 Speaker 9: All right, So, like most boomers, doggy. 1589 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:13,800 Speaker 40: Dude gave Russia money to keep it from completely dissolving. 1590 01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:19,760 We proved Russia downsize, but American money. We gave them 1591 01:36:20,119 --> 01:36:23,800 hundreds of millions of dollars directly to Russia. And this 1592 01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,239 is a fact to keep so that the entire so 1593 01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:29,359 that the whole thing wouldn't unravel and they would be 1594 01:36:29,399 --> 01:36:33,399 able to control their nuclear weapons. So, you know, Putin 1595 01:36:33,439 --> 01:36:36,720 owes us we saved we We quite literally, he wouldn't 1596 01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:38,680 have even been the president if it wasn't for us. 1597 01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:45,079 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I'm familiar with like the era of Yeltsin, 1598 01:36:45,239 --> 01:36:49,960 and Yeltsin being a Western typical Boomers said you know, 1599 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:51,760 you're not gonna let me talk, You're just gonna talk 1600 01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:52,199 over me. 1601 01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:52,920 Speaker 10: Uh. 1602 01:36:53,119 --> 01:36:55,319 Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm familiar with all of that period of like Yeltsin, 1603 01:36:55,399 --> 01:36:57,560 being a Western operative and that I'm sure that there 1604 01:36:57,640 --> 01:36:59,880 was a phase early on when the West didn't mind 1605 01:37:00,079 --> 01:37:04,000 and supported the idea of a Putin presidency. But what 1606 01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:07,640 is the source in your mind? Where where is it 1607 01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:09,960 that you get Does this go back to the Cold War? 1608 01:37:10,079 --> 01:37:11,800 Are you still living in the Cold War era? You 1609 01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:13,760 said to be believing the kgbben a problem? Is that 1610 01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:16,119 the root of this? Like why you think Russia is 1611 01:37:16,119 --> 01:37:32,399 a bad guy? Are you there? I guess he left. 1612 01:37:32,399 --> 01:37:32,680 Speaker 5: I don't know. 1613 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:34,399 Speaker 9: I couldn't hear him. If you want to call back 1614 01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:36,479 in if your mike's messing up, I don't get any 1615 01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,800 sound from you. Uh no, I guess he left. So 1616 01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:43,920 there we go. So basic. It's great because that was 1617 01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:47,039 like the archetype of any bloomer debate that you have 1618 01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:53,399 talking over you moral, just like virtue signaling. When asked 1619 01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:55,760 about what the root of the problem is, I got 1620 01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:59,000 none to do with it. I mean that was like 1621 01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:15,920 classic the KGB. So we should start playing Uri Bezmano. 1622 01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:19,760 Speaker 8: Clips Hi Jay have balls. 1623 01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,159 Speaker 41: Well, sorry, I just got a couple of questions on 1624 01:38:23,279 --> 01:38:28,880 your thoughts about some Bible verses, one of them being 1625 01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:34,399 the when Jesus speaking to his disciples and saying that 1626 01:38:35,119 --> 01:38:38,119 his father's house has many mansions. 1627 01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:41,960 Speaker 42: Do you reckon there's any chance of that being anything 1628 01:38:42,079 --> 01:38:44,840 beyond what he's just trying to say? 1629 01:38:45,239 --> 01:38:47,640 Speaker 9: Like, No, it has nothing to do with it has 1630 01:38:47,720 --> 01:38:50,520 nothing to do with there being many religions that get 1631 01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:52,000 to Heaven, none of that stuff. 1632 01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:54,399 Speaker 8: How about anything beyond that? 1633 01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:56,960 Speaker 42: Look with metaphysics in the sense, do you think there's 1634 01:38:57,039 --> 01:39:00,199 any chance of him because it's quite obvious that there's 1635 01:39:00,239 --> 01:39:00,840 a place there. 1636 01:39:01,039 --> 01:39:02,880 Speaker 8: No, you wouldn't think that the I don't. 1637 01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:03,439 Speaker 9: I don't think so. 1638 01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:03,640 Speaker 19: No. 1639 01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:07,159 Speaker 9: I just think it's talking about the beauty and expanse 1640 01:39:07,239 --> 01:39:08,439 of heaven being beyond. 1641 01:39:08,239 --> 01:39:10,760 Speaker 42: What we can conceive, Okay, because I was sort of 1642 01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,640 like thinking about him, thinking could it potentially be in 1643 01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,720 to say that there's much beyond what we know and 1644 01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:20,039 what's going to be revealed here and if you could potentially. 1645 01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:22,239 Speaker 9: Lead to well, yeah, I mean I think Paul speaks 1646 01:39:22,319 --> 01:39:25,640 that way when he talks about, you know, seek through 1647 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:29,119 glass darkly and all that you want to try again, 1648 01:39:35,239 --> 01:39:44,560 go ahead. I don't hear any sound from you, So 1649 01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:46,279 I don't know if your mike's messed up or what, 1650 01:39:46,520 --> 01:40:01,720 But we don't hear anything. Mas Williams. I have to say, 1651 01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:05,319 I think that was the first, like Bloom or Neocon 1652 01:40:05,399 --> 01:40:07,439 that has ever called into debate. I don't think I've 1653 01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:11,159 ever ever had one. Yeah, what's up? 1654 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,119 Speaker 19: Hello, what's on your mind? 1655 01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:19,720 Speaker 12: I have one question for you? 1656 01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:20,920 Speaker 8: Yep. 1657 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:24,000 Speaker 30: My question is in the Bible. 1658 01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:29,560 Speaker 12: In the Bible it is said that so you are authors. 1659 01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:32,319 Speaker 8: I don't know about the suspicion. I just know about 1660 01:40:32,319 --> 01:40:33,119 the Catholic person. 1661 01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:38,039 Speaker 9: Okay, Brad, what are you trying to say? What is 1662 01:40:38,079 --> 01:40:38,479 your question? 1663 01:40:41,399 --> 01:40:42,239 Speaker 8: Is Jesus God. 1664 01:40:46,359 --> 01:40:47,079 Speaker 12: Is the Father God? 1665 01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:48,000 Speaker 9: Yes? 1666 01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:49,159 Speaker 8: Yes? 1667 01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:54,279 Speaker 15: Then why does Jesus say that Father is the only 1668 01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:55,760 only true God? 1669 01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:00,479 Speaker 9: Because it's called monarchical trinitarianism, and so he is the source, 1670 01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:04,520 fount cause, an ark and principle, the Godhead from whom 1671 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:19,960 all Godhead flows. Right, he left moving on United. I 1672 01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:20,600 didn't kick him. 1673 01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:21,079 Speaker 14: He left. 1674 01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:24,199 Speaker 8: Good. 1675 01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:28,199 Speaker 9: You think it's rude, call in anybody who has an issue. 1676 01:41:28,279 --> 01:41:30,319 You want a debate, You think it's rude. I don't care. 1677 01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:33,079 You think I'm mean? You think I care that you 1678 01:41:33,159 --> 01:41:36,680 think I mean I don't care. Has people calling me 1679 01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:40,279 mean for ten years made me cease at all? 1680 01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:40,479 Speaker 13: No? 1681 01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:48,800 Speaker 9: You can call in right there? What's up? Man, United Kingdom. 1682 01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:56,439 What's up? We've got the entire United Kingdom calling, oh brother, 1683 01:41:58,279 --> 01:41:59,000 bloody hell. 1684 01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:01,319 Speaker 12: Glody, your rings are? 1685 01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:03,920 Speaker 9: What's so? 1686 01:42:05,359 --> 01:42:11,840 Speaker 43: Just about the meta question earlier and the metaphysical frameworks 1687 01:42:12,279 --> 01:42:13,359 of the Holy Trine. 1688 01:42:14,119 --> 01:42:16,039 Speaker 8: So I sent you a message. 1689 01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:22,640 Speaker 43: About what a Russell universal want and the hypothesis that 1690 01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:27,479 his description of how the universe works can unite and 1691 01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:32,319 work with the Holy Trainee based on the source being 1692 01:42:32,399 --> 01:42:35,319 the Father, the Son, the matter, bone and such. 1693 01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:38,960 Speaker 9: But I just I just want to the matter. There's 1694 01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:40,279 nothing to do with matter. I don't know what you're 1695 01:42:40,279 --> 01:42:40,680 talking about. 1696 01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:44,239 Speaker 43: Yes, So if you, if you, if you read that message, 1697 01:42:44,279 --> 01:42:47,159 just s you can just have a look and if 1698 01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:49,279 you want to give me some feedback, you most welcome to. 1699 01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:50,920 Speaker 8: If you think it's like out there. 1700 01:42:51,319 --> 01:42:53,159 Speaker 9: I think it's out there that we don't. This is, 1701 01:42:53,279 --> 01:42:56,560 this is it's not where we go with our turnty theology. 1702 01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:07,600 But thank you, Dane. What's up? Daniel? 1703 01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:08,000 Speaker 23: And I'm you. 1704 01:43:12,279 --> 01:43:12,560 Speaker 19: Hello? 1705 01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:13,880 Speaker 1: What's up? 1706 01:43:16,399 --> 01:43:19,960 Speaker 8: One question is the is the word Jehovah? 1707 01:43:20,359 --> 01:43:23,319 Speaker 19: Is that a misinterpretation of the tetragrammaton? 1708 01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:32,319 Speaker 9: I don't think it's a misinterpretation, though, I think I 1709 01:43:32,399 --> 01:43:34,600 think it's one of the isn't one of the early 1710 01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:39,039 names of God that's used, if I remember correctly, I 1711 01:43:39,319 --> 01:43:41,279 haven't looked at this into this in a long time, but. 1712 01:43:43,279 --> 01:43:44,319 Speaker 12: Okay, that's all I have, thank you. 1713 01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:51,279 Speaker 9: Yeah, So, I mean the term is used in Exodus first, 1714 01:43:51,479 --> 01:44:07,920 so let's see, we're here Exodus six, so it looks 1715 01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:15,600 like in Exodus six. Yeah, the term is in the 1716 01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:21,439 Hebrew Jehovah. And let's see what that is said to be, Jehovah, 1717 01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:27,520 the existing one, self existent, the Jewish national name for God, 1718 01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:33,319 Jehovah yahueh. So no, I don't I've never heard that 1719 01:44:33,359 --> 01:44:38,680 that's a mistranslation, but thank you for that question. Good 1720 01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:48,359 question there, Kenneth, what's the frequency of Kenneth? By the way, 1721 01:44:48,399 --> 01:44:51,359 I hate rim so no, I'm not like, oh Jason's 1722 01:44:51,359 --> 01:44:53,680 secret irim fan. No, No, I don't like that Michael 1723 01:44:53,720 --> 01:45:00,239 Stipe's skittles as hell. I did like at one time 1724 01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:03,760 when I was in high school, I liked that everybody hurts. 1725 01:45:04,119 --> 01:45:07,880 That's because I was an idiot high schooler. So what's up, man, Kenneth? 1726 01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:14,199 What's your frequency? What was frequently Kenneth? By the way 1727 01:45:14,199 --> 01:45:16,000 it was actually written. If you don't know about a 1728 01:45:16,119 --> 01:45:20,600 crazy conspiracy theorist. Jamie was telling me. I didn't actually 1729 01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:25,079 know this, but there was some news broadcast one time 1730 01:45:25,159 --> 01:45:31,079 where like Dan Rather or some idiot like Bloomer newsperson 1731 01:45:31,239 --> 01:45:34,760 was out on the street and this crazy conspiracy dude 1732 01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:39,159 named Kenneth came up and he had like temple hat 1733 01:45:39,239 --> 01:45:44,399 on or something stupid and like accosted Dan Rather. And 1734 01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:47,239 so he was talking about frequencies or something. And so 1735 01:45:48,039 --> 01:45:49,800 the story is, I don't know if it's true. The 1736 01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:52,680 story is Michael Stipe or whoever they wrote that song 1737 01:45:52,800 --> 01:46:00,960 about some crazy conspiracy theorists a costing a newsman, Kenneth? 1738 01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:01,680 What's up? Where you at? 1739 01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:01,800 Speaker 13: Man? 1740 01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:10,119 Speaker 9: Try again? It's like Kenneth's having a hard time connecting. 1741 01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:13,079 So look, I'm looking for people who disagree today. So 1742 01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:17,720 please if you don't disagree, then please don't clog up 1743 01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:21,000 the quay, the queue or whatever. The what are the 1744 01:46:21,119 --> 01:46:24,760 gay terminology is they use in England? I don't know, Man, 1745 01:46:25,279 --> 01:46:27,439 Kenneth's not working. We'll try to come back out, come 1746 01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:29,600 back in. We've got Jamal. What's up? 1747 01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:30,079 Speaker 8: Jamal? 1748 01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:37,439 Speaker 20: Can you hear me? 1749 01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:38,159 Speaker 8: Yeah? 1750 01:46:38,199 --> 01:46:38,560 Speaker 9: What's up? 1751 01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:40,079 Speaker 8: Okay? 1752 01:46:40,199 --> 01:46:40,520 Speaker 19: Okay? 1753 01:46:41,159 --> 01:46:42,760 Speaker 8: So I'm against. 1754 01:46:44,079 --> 01:46:49,119 Speaker 36: The argument did orphinic you percents when it comes to 1755 01:46:49,399 --> 01:46:55,640 the divine and the energy distinction'. 1756 01:46:54,119 --> 01:46:56,119 Speaker 9: You're against the essence energy, is what you're saying. 1757 01:46:57,680 --> 01:46:58,640 Speaker 1: I think it's well. 1758 01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,079 Speaker 9: I can already tell from your voice that it's because 1759 01:47:01,119 --> 01:47:03,800 you have high level spurgatism five thousand and you think 1760 01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:10,399 that it's not logical. I can't deal with like some 1761 01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:13,600 five thousand levels perk right now, Gang's delicious? What's up? 1762 01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:13,840 Speaker 8: Man? 1763 01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:21,800 Speaker 9: Got a Yakoub in the house. I have a why'd 1764 01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:24,920 you go? Mathematical proof in the energy thanking? You call 1765 01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:26,199 what's up? 1766 01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:29,000 Speaker 8: What's going on? What's happening? 1767 01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:31,840 Speaker 9: Yakub to the power to the fourth power? 1768 01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:35,039 Speaker 8: Baby, that's right, that's right, the father Yakub. 1769 01:47:35,119 --> 01:47:36,039 Speaker 19: But that is right. 1770 01:47:36,359 --> 01:47:40,960 Speaker 31: This is a prophet, a prophet of of Yakoub gangs 1771 01:47:41,039 --> 01:47:41,880 delicious speaking. 1772 01:47:42,159 --> 01:47:45,119 Speaker 9: I agree. I accept your prophecies with docility. 1773 01:47:46,199 --> 01:47:50,680 Speaker 31: Awesome, awesome, good good. I actually had a couple of questions. 1774 01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:55,000 Speaker 35: I'm actually Orthodox, but they're not Kanakis's questions. I'm not 1775 01:47:55,119 --> 01:47:57,880 going to ask you about uh drinking beer on Wednesday 1776 01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:58,479 and Fridays. 1777 01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:00,680 Speaker 1: Okay, that is allowed. 1778 01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:05,000 Speaker 31: But I was gonna ask because my dad is a Protestant. 1779 01:48:05,239 --> 01:48:09,199 Speaker 35: And uh he had asked me one time about the 1780 01:48:09,239 --> 01:48:11,720 scriptures and the councils. 1781 01:48:11,279 --> 01:48:13,800 Speaker 19: And all that kind of stuff, because he's obviously scripture. 1782 01:48:13,359 --> 01:48:14,239 Speaker 8: Alone that sort of thing. 1783 01:48:14,319 --> 01:48:16,840 Speaker 9: Are you in a spaceship, dude? It sounds like a theremy. 1784 01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:18,760 Speaker 19: Sorry. 1785 01:48:19,079 --> 01:48:21,640 Speaker 9: It was blasting off to the PDEs to meet he 1786 01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:23,600 blasted off and up here he's blasting off in up 1787 01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:24,800 pyramid to meet your coup. 1788 01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:28,560 Speaker 8: That's actually exactly what I'm doing. I'm coming to bring 1789 01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:29,760 the message of your coup. 1790 01:48:30,319 --> 01:48:33,920 Speaker 9: So you're talking to your dad. Your dad is a 1791 01:48:34,079 --> 01:48:36,199 prompt and he's talking about councils. 1792 01:48:36,239 --> 01:48:40,439 Speaker 35: Go ahead, yeah, And he was his His thing is, 1793 01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:43,600 why aren't the things taught in what his holy tradition 1794 01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:46,079 in the councils, things like that, Why isn't it included 1795 01:48:46,079 --> 01:48:48,680 in the Bible? I tried to explain that, you know, 1796 01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,680 they serve different purposes. I don't know if that's even correct, 1797 01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:52,840 but it sounds correct. 1798 01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:53,359 Speaker 8: At the time of saying it. 1799 01:48:54,079 --> 01:48:59,960 Speaker 9: So well, wait, so why isn't the ecumenical councils included 1800 01:49:00,039 --> 01:49:02,880 in the Bible. The Bible predates the ecumenical councils and 1801 01:49:03,039 --> 01:49:06,760 is the direct teaching of the apostles in Moses and 1802 01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:09,640 so forth. So why would the ecumenical councils be in 1803 01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:11,479 the Bible. I don't understand the objection. 1804 01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:13,600 Speaker 19: I guess more like the. 1805 01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:16,600 Speaker 35: New Testament, Like why isn't like some of the rules 1806 01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:18,600 that think, like the canon law and things like that. 1807 01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:23,399 Speaker 9: His thing is like, all right, So the early form 1808 01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:25,840 of canon law is in the New Testament. It's the 1809 01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:30,680 decision and decree of the Council in Acts fifteen. That's 1810 01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:31,239 church law. 1811 01:49:32,239 --> 01:49:33,199 Speaker 8: Yeah, that makes sense. 1812 01:49:33,720 --> 01:49:37,600 Speaker 9: So you'll notice there's a dispute that arises. We talked 1813 01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:40,680 about this with two or three guys back right. The 1814 01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:44,720 dispute arises. The Apostles meet together in the Council in 1815 01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:49,079 Jerusalem and Acts fifteen, and they come to church law 1816 01:49:49,239 --> 01:49:52,560 decisions based on multiple problems and scandals that are happening 1817 01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:56,720 at that time. So the church after that, the Apostolic era, 1818 01:49:57,319 --> 01:50:01,479 follows that same model and has local synods that are 1819 01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:04,079 the normative way of governing the church to solve these 1820 01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:07,960 problems and to have the authority to make church law 1821 01:50:08,039 --> 01:50:08,520 canon law. 1822 01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:11,960 Speaker 8: Okay, okay. 1823 01:50:12,279 --> 01:50:14,399 Speaker 9: So in other words, the church after the Apostles is 1824 01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:20,479 merely following the example of Act fifteen. Yeah, okay, dude, 1825 01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:22,479 you over that plant. Dud's over there playing pole position. 1826 01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm actually at work in a in. 1827 01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:28,079 Speaker 19: A piece of heavy machinery. 1828 01:50:28,079 --> 01:50:29,199 Speaker 8: I'm moving that dude. 1829 01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:31,359 Speaker 9: Don't don't try to foolish you. You work at the 1830 01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:34,479 go kart h at the at the the name go 1831 01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:36,960 Kart Factor. You over there run it riding go karts around. 1832 01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:39,560 Speaker 8: Oh man, you got me, You got me. I'm just 1833 01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:41,119 I'm just rolling around on the go carts. 1834 01:50:41,119 --> 01:50:45,039 Speaker 9: But that's actually pretty awesome. If you're like, you're at 1835 01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:47,560 the go kart track proselytizing for yakub. 1836 01:50:48,399 --> 01:50:50,319 Speaker 8: That's exactly what I do. I sit here for twelve 1837 01:50:50,359 --> 01:50:50,920 hours a day. 1838 01:50:51,119 --> 01:50:54,840 Speaker 9: Just all the parents think you're like a total creeper 1839 01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:56,680 because you're a white dude that's over there trying to 1840 01:50:56,680 --> 01:50:57,960 talk all the kids into Yakub. 1841 01:50:58,680 --> 01:50:59,800 Speaker 19: I'll wear the T shirt too. 1842 01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,039 Speaker 9: Any other questions, that's a good question. So I would say, well, 1843 01:51:05,319 --> 01:51:07,159 like you said, yeah, the Bible is like a it's 1844 01:51:07,199 --> 01:51:11,760 a it's not the type of book that we would 1845 01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:14,600 expect church law to be. And of course church law 1846 01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,960 is normative, it has authority, but it's not on the 1847 01:51:18,079 --> 01:51:21,560 level of divine revelation. Divine revelation is the direct like 1848 01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:25,159 revelation of the Holy Spirit to the church, it's you know, 1849 01:51:25,399 --> 01:51:28,600 stands for all time. Revelation ceases with the death of 1850 01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:32,720 the Last Apostle. And church law, although it has authority 1851 01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:35,479 and it's normative for us, it's it's obviously going to 1852 01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:38,000 be time bound and it's going to deal with specific 1853 01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:40,800 things at that time. This is why you can't be 1854 01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:43,960 like a spurgatism five thousand and try to read the 1855 01:51:44,079 --> 01:51:47,279 canon law from a thousand years ago into today. 1856 01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:49,279 Speaker 18: Well, it says that we can't go to the theaters, 1857 01:51:49,359 --> 01:51:51,479 and when it goes to the theaters as excommunicating for. 1858 01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:53,479 Speaker 9: The theaters at that time are not the same thing 1859 01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:55,680 as movie theaters today. It's totally a different thing. 1860 01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:56,960 Speaker 8: Right. 1861 01:51:57,039 --> 01:52:01,600 Speaker 9: You can't like a clergy can't ride horse? Is why? Well, 1862 01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:04,239 because at that I'm serious, like in the Middle Ages, 1863 01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:07,800 riding a horse was a sign of nobility and clergy 1864 01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:12,159 were not nobility. Okay, so does that cannon still apply? No, 1865 01:52:12,479 --> 01:52:15,159 because it's not relevant to a society that no longer 1866 01:52:15,279 --> 01:52:16,800 has aristocracy. 1867 01:52:18,399 --> 01:52:19,039 Speaker 19: That makes sense. 1868 01:52:19,119 --> 01:52:20,079 Speaker 8: I'm with you, I'm with you. 1869 01:52:20,359 --> 01:52:24,199 Speaker 9: I'll so what I'm trying to say is that that 1870 01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:28,600 church law is necessary because the church has to deal 1871 01:52:28,680 --> 01:52:32,920 with unique cases in various times and places within history, 1872 01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:38,439 and the Bible itself doesn't address every possible situation like that, right, 1873 01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:43,760 but it doesn't make the church law identical to divine revelation. 1874 01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:47,159 Speaker 19: Okay, cool, I like it. 1875 01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:48,039 Speaker 13: I like it. 1876 01:52:48,359 --> 01:52:50,800 Speaker 9: Great question, man, Thank you, and good luck with the 1877 01:52:51,039 --> 01:52:55,720 Yakubian proselytizing at the go kart track. Patrick, what's up, dude? 1878 01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:58,840 Oh forgot, by the way, there's supposed to be there 1879 01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:02,079 is a Roman Catholic wants to bait tonight. So this 1880 01:53:02,239 --> 01:53:06,359 is a buddy of Tim Gordon's. I forget the guy's name, 1881 01:53:06,560 --> 01:53:09,680 something like Chris or something. So it seems like a 1882 01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:13,479 nice dude, you know, seems like a wholesome, dad, dad, 1883 01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:15,960 core kind of dude. He has a kind of a 1884 01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:20,960 small channel, and he came across my video arguing that 1885 01:53:21,319 --> 01:53:24,520 the dogmatic teaching on the temporal supremacy of the Roman 1886 01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:28,800 bishop and how that's a contradiction. He made a long 1887 01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:32,319 response video to that. So instead of watching his entire 1888 01:53:32,359 --> 01:53:34,439 response video, which I'm not trying to be rude, I 1889 01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:36,800 just have time to watch it, I invited him to 1890 01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:40,319 come to debate. So for everybody listening, we may have 1891 01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:42,800 if he's he's not sure if he can do it tonight, 1892 01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:45,840 but about nine o'clock Eastern, we might have a debate 1893 01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:48,520 with a friendly Catholic dude. 1894 01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:53,239 Speaker 38: What's up, man, Hey, there's it, Golenius Patrick, I'm not 1895 01:53:53,359 --> 01:53:56,279 really understanding your prompt for debate because it's just a 1896 01:53:56,279 --> 01:53:57,199 whole bunch of nowns. 1897 01:53:59,159 --> 01:54:01,319 Speaker 9: Well, it's debating, though, it's debating any of those. In 1898 01:54:01,359 --> 01:54:05,319 other words, that if you're a caval y prot Yeah. 1899 01:54:05,119 --> 01:54:07,720 Speaker 12: I'm not Protestant, Catholic, any of that ship. 1900 01:54:09,199 --> 01:54:10,720 Speaker 9: Okay, it's open debate for anything. 1901 01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:16,039 Speaker 38: Really, I'm definitely I'm definitely agnostic. But I was wondering 1902 01:54:16,079 --> 01:54:17,920 if you're open to a debate about. 1903 01:54:18,359 --> 01:54:21,279 Speaker 8: Whether or not rights or a force mandate or define mandate. 1904 01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:22,840 Speaker 13: Uh. 1905 01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:25,560 Speaker 9: Yeah, Like we've had a lot of like libertarian type 1906 01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:26,720 debates that would touch on that. 1907 01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:28,119 Speaker 8: Yeah. 1908 01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:30,680 Speaker 38: Uh so, do you ad hear that it's a force 1909 01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:33,359 mandate or divine mandate that we get our rights? 1910 01:54:33,800 --> 01:54:37,800 Speaker 9: I would say, ultimately, any justification for the existence of 1911 01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:40,279 rights would have to be grounded in some kind of 1912 01:54:40,359 --> 01:54:41,479 divine transcendent being. 1913 01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:45,319 Speaker 38: Yes, Okay, because I hear a lot of people talking 1914 01:54:45,319 --> 01:54:46,319 about force mand date. 1915 01:54:47,039 --> 01:54:48,680 Speaker 8: I'm not gonna waste your time because it's not really 1916 01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:49,920 a debate anymore because we. 1917 01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:53,039 Speaker 28: Both agree so well. 1918 01:54:53,119 --> 01:54:55,520 Speaker 9: As an agnostic, what what type of deity are you 1919 01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:56,079 talking about? 1920 01:55:01,399 --> 01:55:06,319 Speaker 38: So, I mean, holistically, I do believe in a Christian God, 1921 01:55:06,479 --> 01:55:08,800 it's just I don't. It's really hard for me to 1922 01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,600 follow a specific religion because it's really hard for me 1923 01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:12,800 to pin myself. 1924 01:55:12,560 --> 01:55:16,279 Speaker 8: Down to a group. I don't like group identity. 1925 01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:18,279 Speaker 38: So it's hard for me to be like, say, all 1926 01:55:18,399 --> 01:55:20,479 go around and say I'm a Catholic or a Protestant 1927 01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:23,239 or Eastern Orthodoxy, because I feel like, once you put 1928 01:55:23,279 --> 01:55:27,479 yourself in that circle, you are now held to those 1929 01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,760 principles of that standard, and if they go, if they 1930 01:55:31,840 --> 01:55:35,800 conflict with your interests or values, you really don't have 1931 01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:38,680 an argument because now you just put yourself in a 1932 01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:41,520 place where you have to follow a doctrine, because if 1933 01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:44,079 you're not following that doctrine, then you're not following the 1934 01:55:44,159 --> 01:55:48,560 principles of that ideology. So as an agnostic, I respect 1935 01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:53,239 I believe in the principles of Judeo Christian values. 1936 01:55:53,119 --> 01:55:53,760 Speaker 8: And I do. 1937 01:55:55,279 --> 01:55:57,319 Speaker 38: I'd hear to a lot of their principles, but it's 1938 01:55:57,439 --> 01:56:00,000 just for me, I can't lock myself down into a religon. 1939 01:56:00,399 --> 01:56:01,720 Speaker 8: I don't believe an organization. 1940 01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:08,880 Speaker 9: Well, so you don't reject all collective identities, right or 1941 01:56:08,920 --> 01:56:09,159 do you? 1942 01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:11,039 Speaker 23: Uh? 1943 01:56:12,159 --> 01:56:15,920 Speaker 38: I think if you're running around as an individual saying 1944 01:56:16,079 --> 01:56:19,239 on this, on that, and preaching and preaching to people 1945 01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:21,439 of what you are and who you are,