WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Takes a lot of bandwidth for all this beauty. Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>I know, Oh are you recording whiskey?

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<v Speaker 2>Come and take my pay the money ry, oh whiskey.

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<v Speaker 3>Why think alone when you can drink it all in

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<v Speaker 3>with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour. Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward, John,

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<v Speaker 3>You and the international woman of Mystery, Lucretia.

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<v Speaker 1>Where they slapped it up and David, ain't you easy

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<v Speaker 1>on the souldiers?

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<v Speaker 3>Tap got a giving? Well, the dog days of summer

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<v Speaker 3>are upon us, but there's no letup for the swilling

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<v Speaker 3>hounds of the three Whiskey Happy Hour. Hi, everybody, it's

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<v Speaker 3>Steve here out in California. John is in Texas, and

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<v Speaker 3>Lucretia is at her undisclosed location where he catches her

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<v Speaker 3>international plots of mystery. Hi guys, how are you not

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<v Speaker 3>so bad?

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<v Speaker 1>Not so well, Steve, because I have to tell you

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<v Speaker 1>I have no Internet.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know, you're on your phone and Starling is

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<v Speaker 3>down and the creation I both use Starlink most of

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<v Speaker 3>the time, and I have a backup, and she's on

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<v Speaker 3>her phone so we can't see her today.

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<v Speaker 1>And all I'm gonna say, it's harder to launch international

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<v Speaker 1>plots when you have no starlink, it's very darlint.

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<v Speaker 4>Starlink is an international.

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<v Speaker 1>For months, John, and this is the first and only

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<v Speaker 1>time I've ever even had the slightest issue with it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's down everywhere, as you pointed, out throughout the world.

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<v Speaker 1>So hopefully comes back up soon. Elon, if you're out there,

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<v Speaker 1>get busy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, something's up with this. I think this will be

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<v Speaker 3>a big story when we find out what's happening. So

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<v Speaker 3>what we're doing listeners today is we're going to do

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<v Speaker 3>our round robin format where we really do share hosting duties.

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<v Speaker 3>Each one of us in turn will pick one story

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<v Speaker 3>or issue of the week. But first before we start

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<v Speaker 3>into that, formerly a few quick news updates and announcements.

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<v Speaker 3>The first one I'm pleased to say is that Hadley

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<v Speaker 3>Arkis has started his own podcast along with Gerard Bradley

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<v Speaker 3>at the James Wilson Institute about our natural law moment.

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<v Speaker 3>And we're going to take complete credit for them doing

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<v Speaker 3>this because we have been, you know, using and abusing

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<v Speaker 3>Hadley here for weeks and we did we still want

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<v Speaker 3>to have him on here, and we just had scheduling problems.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'm included the show notes a link to the

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<v Speaker 3>new podcast where Hadley takes out his revenge on us

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<v Speaker 3>for abusing him, and everyone should bookmark that and drop

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<v Speaker 3>in who are interested in the subject. Second item, good

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<v Speaker 3>news for you. John McDonald's announced earlier this week that

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<v Speaker 3>they are going to test market dirty it is, which

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure what that is, but it's its flavored

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<v Speaker 3>cold brews. And you know, pictures they show look like

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<v Speaker 3>pina coladas and Cosmount or something. I don't know, but

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<v Speaker 3>I figured that's probably welcome. An important news for you.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll go great with mcgribb.

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<v Speaker 4>If you, I don't know if you've seen these things.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if you go to these I frequent these

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<v Speaker 2>Asian drink places where they mix coffee and sweet sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>fruits and then weird jello shots and all in one

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<v Speaker 2>giant drink. It's like Steven Linda's grad school days and drank.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, I welcome this. I welcome this on McDonald's part.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll have you and listeners know that I gave up

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<v Speaker 3>dak reeves and any drinks with red coloring and umbrellas.

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<v Speaker 3>And before Ronald Reagan was sworn in for his first term.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, and I'll have you all know I never

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<v Speaker 1>drank them. I just drank Scotch and black coffee from

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<v Speaker 1>the time I was fourteen years old.

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<v Speaker 4>Really, why does that not surprise me?

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<v Speaker 1>I know because my dad. You know, I'll be honest

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<v Speaker 1>with you. I also Steve can attest to this. He

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<v Speaker 1>used to smoke many years ago. And I used to

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<v Speaker 1>get up with my dad in the morning because in

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<v Speaker 1>the summers I worked at his glass manufacturing plant, where

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't his he but he was a plan engineer,

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<v Speaker 1>and we would get up really early in the morning,

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<v Speaker 1>lovely view of the valley of this huge picture window,

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<v Speaker 1>and we would have what my dad referred to as

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<v Speaker 1>a whorse breakfast, which was two cups of coffee and

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<v Speaker 1>three cigarettes.

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<v Speaker 4>Wait, why why don't why don't they eat better than that?

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<v Speaker 1>Come on, well, I actually still have that minus a cigarette.

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<v Speaker 2>So wow, Well I just see I imagine fourteen year

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<v Speaker 2>old Lucretia drinking black coffee and scotch and smoking while

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<v Speaker 2>she's cleaning a rifle.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's what I imagined.

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<v Speaker 1>It was California, so rifles were a little harder to

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<v Speaker 1>come by then.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, my mentor Stan Evans like to say

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<v Speaker 3>that his favorite breakfast was coffee and cigarettes, one a

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<v Speaker 3>leafy vegetable and the other a lugume, because breakfast is

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<v Speaker 3>the most important meal of the day. Okay, next night.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an update for something, Lucretia, you brought up last

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<v Speaker 3>week and you made a passing car meant that the

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<v Speaker 3>Progressives like AOC in particular. And your favorite person, miss

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<v Speaker 3>a sturdy eyelashes herself, Jasmine Crockett. We're raising money hand

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<v Speaker 3>over fist. Well, the numbers are out today and the

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<v Speaker 3>top money raiser in the House of Representatives is in

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<v Speaker 3>fact AOC, with nearly fifteen million dollars raised this year alone.

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<v Speaker 3>That is twice as much as the Speaker of the House,

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<v Speaker 3>Mike Johnson, and it's more than twice as much as

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<v Speaker 3>any other Democrat, including I think it's four times as

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<v Speaker 3>much as hockeying Jeffries, who would be Speaker of the

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<v Speaker 3>House if Democrats won a majority. And if the person

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<v Speaker 3>I think most astonished by that or worried about it,

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<v Speaker 3>I should say, or most anxious about it, has to

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<v Speaker 3>be Chuck Schumer, because AOC can pretty much take all

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<v Speaker 3>of that money and put it into a Senate race

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<v Speaker 3>if she wants to. There are a couple wrinkles between

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<v Speaker 3>House committees and Senate committees, but they're easily overcome, I think.

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<v Speaker 3>And so she's got a big war chest for whatever

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<v Speaker 3>she wants to do, and I suspect she will do

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<v Speaker 3>it right anyway. And overall the Progressives are if you

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<v Speaker 3>sort of total up all the people along the Progressive Caucus,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like two thirds of all the money the Democrats

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<v Speaker 3>have raised so far in a selection cycle. So not

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<v Speaker 3>good news for people to want to move the Democratic

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<v Speaker 3>Party back toward the center, whatever that would be.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Can I ask you a question about that. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>Where did you read it.

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<v Speaker 3>Morning?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, that's where I read it too, And what

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<v Speaker 1>was interesting to me was the usual pandering to the

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<v Speaker 1>left that we have come to expect from the once

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<v Speaker 1>vaunted Wall Street Journal that well, no, wait, My point

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<v Speaker 1>is that they had to put in there that all

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<v Speaker 1>of her money came from this new grassroots effort to

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<v Speaker 1>get small donors. So they make it sound like all

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<v Speaker 1>of the poor people in the United States all sent

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<v Speaker 1>her a dollar because they think she's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>the person who saves them from their poverty and of course,

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<v Speaker 1>the point of the matter is she's getting huge, huge

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<v Speaker 1>contributions from stupid leftists with more money than brains, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's what I really want.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll say about that, that's not I mean, that's not well,

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<v Speaker 3>part of that's right. She actually can't. Her own committee

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<v Speaker 3>is bound by the contribution limits. Now whether now a

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<v Speaker 3>separate independent pack can take, you know, unlimited amounts from

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<v Speaker 3>George Soros or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But we know that Act Blue was really good at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, no, you're right there. I'm quite sure that

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<v Speaker 3>Act Blue and others are bundling lots of small contributions

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<v Speaker 3>for her and Rocanna and Jasmine Crockett and so forth. However,

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<v Speaker 3>it's significant, I think politically that she is getting these

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<v Speaker 3>individual donations and not from packs the party leaders. They

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<v Speaker 3>always get the money from the corporate packs and the

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<v Speaker 3>labor unions. And the fact that that AOC is getting

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<v Speaker 3>contributions from individuals, even if bundled by Act Blue, tells

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<v Speaker 3>you where the center of gravity the Democratic Party is

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<v Speaker 3>and where the energy is. And that should be very

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<v Speaker 3>worrying to everybody. That's all anyway, Two more quick things

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<v Speaker 3>also out today. Joe Biden has sold his Memoirs for

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<v Speaker 3>ten million dollars, which a is less than Clinton, and

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<v Speaker 3>the Obama's got by quite a bit, and no one's

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<v Speaker 3>going to read that book. Point two, we all want

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<v Speaker 3>the film version of Hunter Biden's memoirs, except we already

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<v Speaker 3>saw the film version a few days ago, if you

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<v Speaker 3>caught any of that tube.

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<v Speaker 1>So which publishing company was stupid enough to spend ten

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars in a campaign contribution to somebody who can't

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<v Speaker 1>run for president?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well it's the Hashet Book Group, which is now

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<v Speaker 3>owns a whole lot of the big imprints. So I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know if it's going to be Hashet itself or

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<v Speaker 3>one of their I forget who they own, but they

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<v Speaker 3>own a lot of the prominent names, and so you

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<v Speaker 3>know it doesn't matter. I mean, it'll be one of them,

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<v Speaker 3>and that book will be on the remainder table at

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<v Speaker 3>Costco probably the afternoon it comes out. So there's all that.

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<v Speaker 3>And then finally before we take a break, before we

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<v Speaker 3>get into our main topics today, John, we have a

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<v Speaker 3>question for you from several listeners and readers, So be

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<v Speaker 3>sure to turn your microphone back gone and don't fall

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<v Speaker 3>asleep on us. There's this crazy story, crazy to us

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<v Speaker 3>lay people out of what New Jersey where a bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of federal judges are saying, no, we are not going

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<v Speaker 3>to accept Alena Habba, you know, Trump's former personal lawyer

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<v Speaker 3>as the acting US attorney for our district. And the

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<v Speaker 3>question people are saying is can judges do that? Is

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<v Speaker 3>it this a separation of powers problem? Is there some

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<v Speaker 3>statute that I have missed or that we've all missed

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<v Speaker 3>that gives the judges some say and who can represent

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<v Speaker 3>the government in their courtrooms? What's going on.

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<v Speaker 4>Here as usual? Steve?

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<v Speaker 2>You think because it's not in the Clean Air Act,

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<v Speaker 2>something that is going on. Come on, come on, man,

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<v Speaker 2>there's another statue.

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<v Speaker 4>There's lots of other statues.

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<v Speaker 2>So this one's called the Vacancy's Act, And actually she's

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<v Speaker 2>just being treated normally as anybody else would be in

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<v Speaker 2>the under Vacancy Is Act, and she's just not getting

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<v Speaker 2>the benefit of a special provision that only applies to prosecutors.

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<v Speaker 4>So just explain it real quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>Anytime there's a vacancy in a position for which the

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<v Speaker 2>President nominates and the Senate confirms, the president can put

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<v Speaker 2>someone in their acting for I think one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty days, and so she's just reached the end of

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<v Speaker 2>her period. Usually at the end of that period, then

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<v Speaker 2>the career person who's in that office becomes the acting

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what, this was changed so that President

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<v Speaker 2>Clinton could not keep repeatedly making someone acting head of

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<v Speaker 2>the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Apartment, someone who

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<v Speaker 2>the Senate kept rejecting over and over again. So there's

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<v Speaker 2>this twist for prosecutors, for US attorneys. This is I've

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<v Speaker 2>always thought this violates a separation of powers, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>been with us since the founding. The courts are allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to appoint someone to be the US attorney in a

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<v Speaker 2>district if there's a failure like this, And so all

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<v Speaker 2>that's happened here is that district judges there have said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to use that special power.

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<v Speaker 4>Go point at somebody else.

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<v Speaker 2>But it is a sign that the judges there have

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<v Speaker 2>don't have much respect for Billina Habba, because if they

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<v Speaker 2>did respect her, they would have they could have made

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<v Speaker 2>a permanent It's actually one of the few areas in

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<v Speaker 2>the executive branch where the judges can actually appoint the

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<v Speaker 2>permanent official. It's as if the president and the Senate

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<v Speaker 2>had advised and consented. It's this weird wrinkle in the

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<v Speaker 2>appointments process. It doesn't apply to any other official in

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<v Speaker 2>the executive branch as far as I know.

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<v Speaker 1>And so there you have the rhino explanation at the

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<v Speaker 1>very end, which says it's because they have something against

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<v Speaker 1>her and not because they're all rabid anti Trumpers that

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<v Speaker 1>they decide.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's manifestly unqualified for the job. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>did you see what she did before she represented Trump?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, come on, I don't think she'd ever appeared

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<v Speaker 2>in court ever.

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<v Speaker 4>I kind of giggled.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm laughing because I mean, it's appropriate that

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<v Speaker 2>she would be put in New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 4>New Jersey deserves things like this.

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<v Speaker 3>Right. Well, I'll just mention in passing that my late

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<v Speaker 3>father in law was US attorney and Reno, Nevada under

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<v Speaker 3>President Eisenhower, I think at the age of thirty four.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow Eisenhower. Oh yeah, yes, by Eisenhower.

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<v Speaker 3>You know there are only ten people lived in Reno

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<v Speaker 3>in the fifty access. That's really true.

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<v Speaker 2>He was in the middle of the ten people lived there,

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<v Speaker 2>and eight of them were under investigation.

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<v Speaker 3>Just oh no, no, that was he was you know,

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<v Speaker 3>authorizing and supervising wiretaps of some of the mob people

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<v Speaker 3>in Reno and stuff. And no, he was involved a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of the mob busting that went on in Nevada

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<v Speaker 3>in the fifties. So anyway, so I don't know, if

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I don't know what his courtroom experience had

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<v Speaker 3>been at that point. But still thirty four is pretty

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<v Speaker 3>I think he's like one of the youngest ever appointed

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<v Speaker 3>to be US attorney at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>So we will point out that because New Jersey is

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<v Speaker 2>filled with criminals and robbers, right being from Philadelphia, we

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<v Speaker 2>watched them from across the river. Her it's actually been

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<v Speaker 2>a great launching pad for US attorneys. You know who's

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<v Speaker 2>amongst Alena Haveba's distinguished predecessors were Samuel.

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<v Speaker 4>Alito and Michael.

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<v Speaker 2>Like some of the greatest US attorneys you know that

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<v Speaker 2>I've ever run into.

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<v Speaker 4>And then Alena Habas.

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<v Speaker 2>So I could see why the judges were not impressed. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Christie was Chris yes, Chris yes, Chris Christy too.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, there's a lot of hacks out there, and don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget that that are US attorneys. I know some of them,

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<v Speaker 1>and I won't bring up their names here, but remember

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<v Speaker 1>that you're forgetting part of the story, which was Hakeem

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffries sending a letter to those judges telling them that

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<v Speaker 1>she was, you know, pro Trump and this and that,

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<v Speaker 1>and that they needed to uh that she was partisan

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<v Speaker 1>and therefore they needed to vote against her. And that

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<v Speaker 1>was a complet I mean, it turned it all into

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<v Speaker 1>a partisan game. And you know, for that reason, they

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<v Speaker 1>should have said, no, we're not going to listen to

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<v Speaker 1>Hakeem Jeffries and kept her. That's what I think. Well

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't because they're all scum Democrats.

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<v Speaker 3>Some other time, because John was so young, then I

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<v Speaker 3>might go back and revisit the Marston affair from the

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventies. He was the US attorney for Philadelphia that

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<v Speaker 3>Jimmy Carter wanted to get rid of.

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<v Speaker 2>You will be shocked, I know that very well because

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<v Speaker 2>I dated his daughter.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, this we will have to hear him,

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<v Speaker 3>but not this week. And now we're going to go

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<v Speaker 3>to a quick break and we'll come back and get

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<v Speaker 3>started on what we had in mind all along. Don't

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<v Speaker 3>go away, all right, Lucretia, I want to toss first

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<v Speaker 3>to you today to find out what's on your mind.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I know what's on your mind. And the

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<v Speaker 3>good news listeners is Lucretia does not even need her

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<v Speaker 3>tinfoil hat today for this story. Lucretia, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still gonna need it because there's still a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of obfuscating going on. But so the revelations that have

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<v Speaker 1>come out from the D and I Telsea Gabbard regarding

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<v Speaker 1>what most of us knew really happened anyway, was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the entire corruption of our intelligence services by Obama and

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<v Speaker 1>Hillary Clinton. That they were also upset when Trump actually won.

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<v Speaker 1>They were all shocked and dismayed. And Obama, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>the narcissistic little that he is, couldn't even bear the

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<v Speaker 1>thought that he was not going to have another four

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<v Speaker 1>years in office. Through Hillary, that they launched what has

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<v Speaker 1>to be the most treasonous set of activities ever committed

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<v Speaker 1>by a president. And I know a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>ones that you know reading being a sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>presidential scholar, I know a lot of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>went on. I can't ever anything worse. So what really happened?

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<v Speaker 1>There were allegations that the Russians and helped me, Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>if I get this wrong, because I don't have the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to pull up all of my sources here to

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<v Speaker 1>get the steps in the right order. So if I

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<v Speaker 1>do this wrong, help. So the intelligence community put together

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<v Speaker 1>an intelligence community of assessment that said that the Russians

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<v Speaker 1>had been involved in it, had involved themselves in our election,

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<v Speaker 1>and ultimately it was concluded that it didn't make a

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<v Speaker 1>difference that Russian the Russians and others always involved themselves

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<v Speaker 1>in other countries' elections for their own purposes. But then

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<v Speaker 1>some things came up about Hillary Clinton's emails. Remember Hillary

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<v Speaker 1>Clinton never was never executed for the crime of treason

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<v Speaker 1>for keeping her servers in a bathroom and allowing them

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<v Speaker 1>to be hacked by the Russians, which we know they were.

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<v Speaker 1>And Steve wanted me to mention that the Russians say it, Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>because I forget exactly how it went out.

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<v Speaker 5>Well.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, some of the materially found is that the Russians

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<v Speaker 3>believed or thought they actually had the solid evidence to

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<v Speaker 3>say that Hillary Clinton has serious health problems. She's prone

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<v Speaker 3>to rages of temper, she's on the tranquilizers a lot,

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<v Speaker 3>and I mean and everyone now immediately remembers the September eleventh,

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<v Speaker 3>twenty sixteen episode when she was had to be propped

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<v Speaker 3>up and put in the you know, falling down and

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<v Speaker 3>you know see later a few hours said, I was dehydrated,

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<v Speaker 3>right and anyway, I thought, well that's interesting. And there's

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<v Speaker 3>also why didn't they release it?

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<v Speaker 1>Though, Steve there was a reason. I don't remember why.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know why. I don't know why. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 3>was what a Senator House Committee report had all this,

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<v Speaker 3>But I mean, I think the salient points are, First,

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<v Speaker 3>Obama was up to his neck in this point number one.

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<v Speaker 3>Point number two, they knew it was true, and they

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<v Speaker 3>knew that the thesis of the Russian interference in the

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<v Speaker 3>election was untrue. But that makes the point three, which

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<v Speaker 3>is they went forward with it anyway in a deliberate

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<v Speaker 3>attempt hobble Trump once he took office, which you know,

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<v Speaker 3>they it's hard to hobble Trump because he's unhobbleable' is

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<v Speaker 3>that a word, but it's certain. Look, when you're under

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<v Speaker 3>a Special Council investigation, as John knows, it really slows

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<v Speaker 3>things down. It dominates too much attention to White House

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<v Speaker 3>staff and so forth. So that seems to me as

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<v Speaker 3>bad as anything. Nixon is alleged to have done in

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<v Speaker 3>Watergate and did do right and went all the way

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<v Speaker 3>to the top. And yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there's a lot more to it. You've got

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<v Speaker 1>the who actually released some of those emails from the

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<v Speaker 1>DNC and and was it you know, Julian Assan just

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<v Speaker 1>said all along it was never ever ever Russia, And

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<v Speaker 1>it was probably something that what was the name of

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<v Speaker 1>the young man seth Rich seth Rich killed in a

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<v Speaker 1>burglary that didn't take the burglar, the robber didn't take

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<v Speaker 1>his wallet or anything else. And you know, there's just

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<v Speaker 1>it's so ugly when anything is involved with the Obama

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<v Speaker 1>or the Clintons. But ultimately so they not only did

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<v Speaker 1>they publish things that they were untrue, they published things

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<v Speaker 1>that they knew the opposite were true. And then of

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<v Speaker 1>course go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Well there's that seems to me there are three questions here,

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<v Speaker 3>and let you start first and then we're going to

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<v Speaker 3>get John in on this too. One is is you know,

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<v Speaker 3>what are the criminal vulnerabilities of people in the whole

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<v Speaker 3>chain of all this? And then second is President Obama,

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<v Speaker 3>as they say in legal historicals, stopped from being prosecuted

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<v Speaker 3>because of the immunity ruling that Trump won last year

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<v Speaker 3>to the Supreme Court. And finally, you mentioned treason. I

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<v Speaker 3>want to talk a little bit about that, because I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>is this what foreign country are they working on? Behalf

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<v Speaker 3>of I think it was a party interest. So and

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<v Speaker 3>then there's the of how treason is defined in the Constitution.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the only criminal matter discussed directly with litery, peculiar

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<v Speaker 3>and interesting conditions. So anyway, whatever order order you want,

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<v Speaker 3>whoever you want to.

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<v Speaker 1>Take that, Okay. So the probably the most explosive part

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<v Speaker 1>about Gabbard's revelations was in fact not only that Obama

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<v Speaker 1>was involved in him but probably directing it. And so

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<v Speaker 1>the inclusion of things in that intelligence community assessment, the

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<v Speaker 1>exclusion of things, you know, the role of the Peepee

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<v Speaker 1>tape as it's often called, the role of Christopher Steele,

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<v Speaker 1>the role of the Clinton campaign, and the role of

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<v Speaker 1>crowd strike, all of these readers, we don't have time

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<v Speaker 1>to listeners, we don't have time to go through all

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<v Speaker 1>of it. But I think what it ultimately comes down

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<v Speaker 1>to is what do you do about probably most specifically Obama,

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<v Speaker 1>Brennan and Komy. And this is where I have to

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<v Speaker 1>reach to John and say, if you falsify intelligence and

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<v Speaker 1>then leak that falsified intelligence with the purpose of either

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<v Speaker 1>affecting an election or damaging a president, is there any

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<v Speaker 1>crime there?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a question between whether there's anything new and

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<v Speaker 2>what Gabert released. And then you're you're hypothetical which is

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<v Speaker 2>different to me than what Gabret actually shows, but s

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<v Speaker 2>your hypothetical is well, so first there's a crime in

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<v Speaker 2>just releasing a classified right classified document. Leaking that is

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<v Speaker 2>a violation of the Espionage Act, and that's criminal. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's even Oh no, people get prosecuted for the I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Comy wasn't prosecuted in for instance, for doing it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is John m.

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<v Speaker 2>Kin Homy was Comy was referred to the for prosecution

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<v Speaker 2>by the Inspector General the Justice Department, but Johnham, John Durham,

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<v Speaker 2>the Special Council chose not to bring charges. But they

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<v Speaker 2>were I mean that might have been because they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>think they could win in court, for example, But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, journals have been prosecuted for this espionage

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<v Speaker 2>and actually Obama his administration prosecuted a bunch of people

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<v Speaker 2>for espionage for Act violations. Or you could say, remember Bradley,

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<v Speaker 2>Bradley Manning, whatever his name is now Chelsea Manning was

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<v Speaker 2>prosecuted and right, so people do get prosecuted under it.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, if you this, you know, if you release,

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<v Speaker 2>if you leaked a classified it's not even just the document. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>the way the statute talks about it says you can't

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<v Speaker 2>leak defense information. So if they were, if you know,

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<v Speaker 2>these officials were leaking information from the documents on the phone,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, you could still be prosecuted for that. They

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't say, oh, well, I never gave a document to anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not a defense So yeah, you could definitely prosecute

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<v Speaker 2>people for the facts.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't prosecute Obama, can you.

422
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:55.359
<v Speaker 2>So Obama is different because he might get immunity under

423
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:59.519
<v Speaker 2>the Trump decision. Right, So if you look at what

424
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:03.000
<v Speaker 2>what I think think Gabbert is claiming, she is claiming

425
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:09.880
<v Speaker 2>not that Obama manufactured some kind of intelligence or that Obama,

426
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, leaked any information. So her claim is that

427
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.200
<v Speaker 2>before Obama had a meeting with his intelligence people. Everyone

428
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:23.279
<v Speaker 2>knows that, and so before that meeting, the intelligence community

429
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.920
<v Speaker 2>had concluded that Russia had not tried to break into

430
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:33.119
<v Speaker 2>any voting infrastructure, or had successfully changed any vote or

431
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>any outcome of any vote, and then there's this meeting,

432
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:42.559
<v Speaker 2>and then the Gabbard claims Obama then pasked the intelligence

433
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:46.519
<v Speaker 2>community to do this assessment to see whether Russia had

434
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:50.319
<v Speaker 2>tried to help Trump win. And so her argument is

435
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that Trump based I'm sorry that Obama basically did that

436
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.559
<v Speaker 2>with no real grounding in fact, that he must have

437
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.960
<v Speaker 2>done it for the purpose of handicaps happening the Trump

438
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 2>administration when it started out.

439
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.920
<v Speaker 4>I don't see how that's not covered by the immunity decision.

440
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's an official action, right that Obama can say, Look,

441
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to see whether Russia actually was involved. That

442
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.839
<v Speaker 2>seems that seems covered to me by the Trump decision.

443
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.359
<v Speaker 2>It's an official act of as president.

444
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah. We may come back to this point in

445
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.839
<v Speaker 3>our next segment, John, when we talk about executive power

446
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.319
<v Speaker 3>more broadly, which is what you want to bring up

447
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:32.440
<v Speaker 3>for listeners, Lucretia, what do you want to contest her answer.

448
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:41.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about the way the way that the Trump

449
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.279
<v Speaker 1>case looks at the question of what goes on between

450
00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:50.079
<v Speaker 1>president and his advisors as close as advisors and you know,

451
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>even the arguments way back from Nixon versus Us versus Nixon, whichever,

452
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:04.039
<v Speaker 1>it is that those almost always are considered official acts

453
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:09.119
<v Speaker 1>for the and that they are entitled to. I believe

454
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.960
<v Speaker 1>that falls under the presumption of immunity, not absolute immunity,

455
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.279
<v Speaker 1>but the presumption of immunity. And you know, they made

456
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:24.039
<v Speaker 1>that distinction because of the effects that worrying about being

457
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:28.240
<v Speaker 1>criminally liable for those things that you discuss will have

458
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:31.680
<v Speaker 1>on the Article two powers that you know, the core

459
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:35.400
<v Speaker 1>powers of the presidency. What they don't say, however, is

460
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>that it's not a subject that a court could not

461
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.359
<v Speaker 1>pursue in the same way that if it's what do

462
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.279
<v Speaker 1>they call it, the conclusive and preclusive powers of the

463
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>president acting clearly within his Article two stated powers or

464
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.519
<v Speaker 1>congressionally authorized powers, there is absolute immunity. I don't think

465
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:01.599
<v Speaker 1>it falls under absolute immunity based on reading Trump versus

466
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:03.920
<v Speaker 1>the United States. Maybe I'm wrong, because you know, I'm

467
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>not a lawyer, but what I take away from this

468
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>is that what saves a president from being even called

469
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 1>in front of a court to have to explain himself

470
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:26.079
<v Speaker 1>is the notion that doing so would hamper his exercise

471
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:31.119
<v Speaker 1>of his core powers. And if it's not that, if

472
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not that absolute immunity, then you've got to worry

473
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 1>about what does the court call it? Context, content, context,

474
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.359
<v Speaker 1>and facts. And in this case, I think the court

475
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.240
<v Speaker 1>would have to a court if they brought a criminal prosecution,

476
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 1>they would have to at the very least determine whether

477
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.200
<v Speaker 1>or not this was an official act of the president

478
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:55.440
<v Speaker 1>that is part of his core powers, or whether it's

479
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:57.960
<v Speaker 1>what do they call the there's a word, I forget it,

480
00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:01.839
<v Speaker 1>the kind of not quite in the middle of core powers,

481
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.119
<v Speaker 1>and those don't carry the same level of absolute immunity.

482
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Am i am I misunderstanding that?

483
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 4>No, So I think I.

484
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.519
<v Speaker 2>Think give the constitutional law about right.

485
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:15.799
<v Speaker 4>So the absolute immunity applies to.

486
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:23.359
<v Speaker 2>The functions of the president that fall under his uh

487
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.119
<v Speaker 2>you could say soul Article two powers. Then there are

488
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you could say, powers that are I think the phrase

489
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.440
<v Speaker 2>in the depinion might be concurrent, you know, that are

490
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of shared with Congress or which Congress deleicated to

491
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:38.839
<v Speaker 2>the president.

492
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:42.039
<v Speaker 4>And that's where then the courses.

493
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.839
<v Speaker 2>You have a presumption of immunity, but that presumption can

494
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:45.720
<v Speaker 2>be overridden.

495
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.000
<v Speaker 4>Now this is the thing.

496
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 2>So I think just two points one on the facts

497
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:53.880
<v Speaker 2>and one on the law. You know, on the facts.

498
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm not sure that the group said.

499
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.720
<v Speaker 4>So there's two criminal deferrals going on here.

500
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.880
<v Speaker 2>And actually I think the one that you know, Gaberd

501
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>is I think, really exaggerating what she's got here. She's

502
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.799
<v Speaker 2>definitely got something, but I think she's exaggerating the importance

503
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of it. I find her very unreliable in her judgment

504
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:20.039
<v Speaker 2>about this. But she's obscuring the more important referral, way,

505
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:22.559
<v Speaker 2>way more important referral, which is by the CIA. So

506
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.559
<v Speaker 2>the week before gaber did this, John Radcliffe, who's the

507
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.480
<v Speaker 2>director of the CIA and a former prosecutor, he was

508
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.519
<v Speaker 2>a prosecutor in Texas, was an assistant was during Texas.

509
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 4>He has the CIA.

510
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Has referred Brennan and Clapper for prosecution by the Justice Department.

511
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.759
<v Speaker 4>That is way more serious.

512
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:46.000
<v Speaker 2>I am not aware of any time that the CIA

513
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:49.319
<v Speaker 2>has ever referred a former director or a former d

514
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>and I for prosecution.

515
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:52.839
<v Speaker 4>That's incredible, actually if you think about it.

516
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:58.519
<v Speaker 2>And because but Gabert has totally taken the spotlight and

517
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.559
<v Speaker 2>is in fact undermine I think the seriousness of the

518
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.839
<v Speaker 2>CIA referrals because she's pushing this idea that Obama committed

519
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 2>treason or that Clapper and Brennan and Komi committed trees

520
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>and based on actually, I think a fairly thin read

521
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of evidence. What I would really want to know is,

522
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.640
<v Speaker 2>what is it that the CIA, which didn't release, you know,

523
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty pages, right, the CIA just I

524
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.000
<v Speaker 2>think announced in a like a four page memo or

525
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 2>a five page memo that there were serious problems with

526
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.160
<v Speaker 2>the way the Russia hoaks got introduced into our intelligence

527
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.519
<v Speaker 2>agencies and intelligence reports, and they were referring those guys

528
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.400
<v Speaker 2>for prosecution. That's a really big deal, right, That's like, right,

529
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.839
<v Speaker 2>is like the oss E were going to refer you know,

530
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Donovan wild Bill Donovan for prosecution.

531
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.279
<v Speaker 4>That's really incredible that they did that.

532
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>But people have missed that because you know, they're all

533
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 2>focused on the shiny thing Gabbard's throwing around.

534
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Speaker 4>One more thing about the facts is oh, go ahead.

535
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Before you go on. I did, before you go on

536
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>with your next point. I want to hear it. But

537
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.279
<v Speaker 1>let me just let me let me be political here

538
00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.279
<v Speaker 1>for a moment about that, and say, let's assume that

539
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.759
<v Speaker 1>maybe Trump and Trump's best attorneys and so forth, are

540
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:11.200
<v Speaker 1>overlooking this whole thing, and Tolsey Gabbard puts out pages

541
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:13.400
<v Speaker 1>and pages and pages of these sorts of things, and

542
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:17.440
<v Speaker 1>that's what everybody's talking about. But in the meantime, an actual,

543
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.599
<v Speaker 1>factually based prosecution of really in many ways, however you

544
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.599
<v Speaker 1>look at it, whatever you say to Obama about Obama

545
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.519
<v Speaker 1>and this, Brennan and Clapper are just the most despicable

546
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.039
<v Speaker 1>creatures on the planet. And to get them and to

547
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.720
<v Speaker 1>get clean house by prosecuting them and perhaps even getting

548
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:42.480
<v Speaker 1>a conviction against them would be so so cathartic for

549
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, getting rid of the worst excesses of the

550
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 1>deep state. Maybe this is all planned this way. I'm

551
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.319
<v Speaker 1>just throwing that out.

552
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.279
<v Speaker 4>There, John. I. I mean, I think what's going on?

553
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.400
<v Speaker 1>You see the argument?

554
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.960
<v Speaker 2>No, But what I think if I were going to

555
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.440
<v Speaker 2>try to interpret what was going on, I think, you know,

556
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Ratcliffe is a very serious guy, and he's apparently doing.

557
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.079
<v Speaker 4>A really good job at the CIA.

558
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:07.759
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's cleaning house, but he's doing it in

559
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.759
<v Speaker 2>a responsible way. You never read about him, right this

560
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.839
<v Speaker 2>is the best thing for a SI director. You don't

561
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.240
<v Speaker 2>read or hear about them very often right there. But

562
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:17.319
<v Speaker 2>they're hopefully they're up to no good with regard to

563
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>our enemies. And you know, so to refer you know,

564
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:24.359
<v Speaker 2>the former director of the CIA for Criminal Prosecution and

565
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.039
<v Speaker 2>the heads of the CIA now is a former prosecutor.

566
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.480
<v Speaker 2>That means, you know, like someone who knows what the

567
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 2>just farmant does and what really qualifies her prosecution took

568
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 2>a hard look at this and sent it over.

569
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:36.279
<v Speaker 4>That's a really big deal.

570
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I think Gabbard, who's the d and I who you know,

571
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.680
<v Speaker 2>a few weeks ago people thought Trump was going to

572
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:46.079
<v Speaker 2>fire her, saw this and decided she needed to insert

573
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 2>herself in some way into this because she's on the

574
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:51.880
<v Speaker 2>outs with Trump, and so what does she do she?

575
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.160
<v Speaker 2>I think because of that, it encourages her to say

576
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.839
<v Speaker 2>things which I think are just over the top, you know,

577
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 2>like that Obama committed treason. I don't think he committed,

578
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:03.160
<v Speaker 2>even on the facts that she alleges it. I don't

579
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.759
<v Speaker 2>think he could. You could convict them of trees and

580
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:07.279
<v Speaker 2>or they committed treason.

581
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.079
<v Speaker 4>I think he, you know, had this bias.

582
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.079
<v Speaker 2>All remember back in December of twenty sixteen, people like,

583
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>how did Trump win?

584
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.920
<v Speaker 4>It seems impossible? Blah blah blah blah, so he said to.

585
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>His intelligence people, see if the Russians were involved, I

586
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:21.920
<v Speaker 2>don't think that's treason.

587
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.480
<v Speaker 1>That's not exactly how it all happened. Well that's the problem,

588
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:25.839
<v Speaker 1>all right.

589
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.119
<v Speaker 3>Let's do this as an exit. Question was first of

590
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.200
<v Speaker 3>all simple my question. I thought charge of treason had

591
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.480
<v Speaker 3>to involve actually doing something on behalf of a foreign government.

592
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.799
<v Speaker 2>And you have to let the war against the United

593
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.759
<v Speaker 2>States or gave given aid and comfort to our enemies.

594
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.279
<v Speaker 4>How could Obama under these facts be guilty of that?

595
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:46.839
<v Speaker 2>And you have got two witnesses who both witnessed the

596
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:48.599
<v Speaker 2>same overt act of treason.

597
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.759
<v Speaker 3>That was my second question. I mean, that's such a

598
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, what were the maybe know the answer to

599
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:56.960
<v Speaker 3>this that you can do it briefly? What was the

600
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.240
<v Speaker 3>reasoning for being so specific about that's so interesting? Right?

601
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 4>This is so interesting.

602
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because the Crown in England was prosecuting a lot

603
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:10.079
<v Speaker 2>of people for treason, and so this is really interesting.

604
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.400
<v Speaker 2>This is the only crime that is defined in the Constitution,

605
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:16.119
<v Speaker 2>right and the reason why and this is from an

606
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:17.599
<v Speaker 2>opinion by Chief Justice Marshall.

607
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:19.319
<v Speaker 4>This is great in the bur trial.

608
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.759
<v Speaker 2>So the first interpretation of this clause, the first treason

609
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.680
<v Speaker 2>prosecution is brought against Aaron Burr for his effort to

610
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.680
<v Speaker 2>raise a rebellion in Louisiana. The burg Conspiracy gives rise

611
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to this major opinion by Chief Justice Marshall, and he says,

612
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 2>one reason that the Founders wrote this provision into the

613
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Constitution was to take away from Congress and the President

614
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.880
<v Speaker 2>the ability to find treason because the British had abused it.

615
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 4>Think about what the British.

616
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Would have done if the revolution had failed. They would

617
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:53.119
<v Speaker 2>have prosecuted and hung every single member of the Founding

618
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>of the Founding leaders for treason, right, So they want

619
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.519
<v Speaker 2>and they wanted to make it hard to prove, and

620
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:02.000
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to make sure that the political politicians couldn't

621
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:02.440
<v Speaker 2>change it.

622
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:03.599
<v Speaker 4>So they stuck it in the.

623
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.960
<v Speaker 2>And so actually, remember Burr undeniably goes down to Louisiana

624
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:10.880
<v Speaker 2>and he tries to raise a rebellion and he's still

625
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:14.440
<v Speaker 2>equitted of treason because they couldn't find two witnesses who

626
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:15.840
<v Speaker 2>saw him do anything over it.

627
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.079
<v Speaker 3>Hmm, interesting, I love it.

628
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:20.480
<v Speaker 4>I love it.

629
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, story, well, I am I'm not sure about the

630
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 3>trees and angle. I am with Lucretian saying I'd love

631
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.239
<v Speaker 3>to see some really serious accountability for Brennan and Clapper

632
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:30.480
<v Speaker 3>and all those other things. Mean too.

633
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, there you could you could argue

634
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:35.079
<v Speaker 2>that this is a good case for a special council,

635
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.599
<v Speaker 2>although there already was one with John Durham. But I

636
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:40.199
<v Speaker 2>think this is there's something here that should be gone

637
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:42.159
<v Speaker 2>to the bottom of it. I just don't think it's

638
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:43.840
<v Speaker 2>wise to say Obama committed trees.

639
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, could be all right, Let's go to break

640
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.280
<v Speaker 3>and then we will come back John with some thoughts

641
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.639
<v Speaker 3>from you on executive power and continue the same subject.

642
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.760
<v Speaker 3>So don't go away, everybody, We'll be right back. Okay,

643
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.239
<v Speaker 3>we're back, and John, I'm gonna throw the microphone you

644
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.039
<v Speaker 3>what's on your mind this week? What do you want

645
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 3>to what do you want us to wrestle with you about?

646
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we got to talk about the symposium that

647
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Steve and I did this week and Civitas, which I

648
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:14.159
<v Speaker 2>thought was really interesting. Oh come on, I mean you

649
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:16.800
<v Speaker 2>went on at great length. You only mentioned the Clean

650
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Air Act three times in your.

651
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 4>Piece, which is a real record for you. Come on,

652
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:22.679
<v Speaker 4>I mean this.

653
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Is there was much longer than mine.

654
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it didn't mention the Clean Air Act. Every

655
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.000
<v Speaker 2>time you mentioned it, you lose one hundred birds on

656
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:31.599
<v Speaker 2>your limit.

657
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 4>I mean, come on.

658
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:35.960
<v Speaker 2>So here's the It was a fun It was a

659
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.039
<v Speaker 2>fun exercise that you know. Civitas asked us to do

660
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:44.000
<v Speaker 2>a uh do a symposium on was something like virtue

661
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:46.920
<v Speaker 2>and the American presidency I think was the initial topic,

662
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:49.239
<v Speaker 2>and so, uh, you know.

663
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.039
<v Speaker 4>Steve wrote his usual.

664
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, I thought, well, first there's Steve Hayward, and

665
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:58.840
<v Speaker 2>then there's Gary Schmid and Joe Bassett, also Straussians, and

666
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.239
<v Speaker 2>then you've all evn who I think, I don't know

667
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.440
<v Speaker 2>if he's strictly a Straussian, but he's Straussian adjacent, I

668
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 2>would say. And so I thought, yeah, no, I mean

669
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>I think he got all these political theorists, oh sorry,

670
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:15.920
<v Speaker 2>political philosophers, and so I expected, I expected all of

671
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.159
<v Speaker 2>you to say, uh, you know, the Republican virtue must

672
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.880
<v Speaker 2>be in the person who's the president. And that's what

673
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the founders would have thought, which I think is actually true.

674
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.440
<v Speaker 2>The founders expected that the first president would be the

675
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 2>most virtuous amongst them, among them, which was who was

676
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 2>George Washington. So I thought I would have fun and

677
00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a I tried to find a contrary example.

678
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.320
<v Speaker 2>So I thought of who was a very successful president,

679
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 2>who's not a very virtuous person. The fact was, you

680
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:44.960
<v Speaker 2>might have had anti virtues of those days, and that

681
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:48.639
<v Speaker 2>was Andrew Jackson. I think about Andrew Jackson before he

682
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:54.679
<v Speaker 2>became a president, had shot people in duels, had killed

683
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Indians in the variety of Indian wars, had saved the country,

684
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, the Battle of New Orleans in the War

685
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.320
<v Speaker 2>of eighteen twelve. But then took his army and decided

686
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:07.119
<v Speaker 2>to invade Florida against the orders of president, against the

687
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.480
<v Speaker 2>orders of the president at the time. And then when

688
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:13.320
<v Speaker 2>he was criticized, I think he wrote President Monroe something

689
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.079
<v Speaker 2>along the lines of do you want me.

690
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:15.920
<v Speaker 4>To give it back?

691
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:19.039
<v Speaker 2>So he just took Florida because he thought it ought

692
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.440
<v Speaker 2>to be part of the United States, disobeying the chain

693
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.239
<v Speaker 2>of command, and was, you know, if you read the

694
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:30.679
<v Speaker 2>accounts of him, temperamental, right, vertuperative, you know, combative, ill tempered,

695
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:36.639
<v Speaker 2>But I thought was a great president. One example of this,

696
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>and the difference between I think the virtue of George

697
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Washington compared to the rough and tumble of Andrew Jackson

698
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:47.280
<v Speaker 2>was their responses to rebellion so in Washington's time, you

699
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 2>have the Whiskey Rebellion. Washington leads troops. He's the first

700
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:54.679
<v Speaker 2>and only president to ever lead troops in the field

701
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.440
<v Speaker 2>as commander in chief. He gets on a big white

702
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:01.280
<v Speaker 2>horse and leads the column of troops up.

703
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.400
<v Speaker 4>To western Pennsylvania on.

704
00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 2>The expectation that they would all disperse if they just

705
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 2>saw him, and they did. And then he dropped the

706
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 2>prosecutions of anyone involved and released everyone from prison who'd

707
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:18.800
<v Speaker 2>been arrested. Andrew Jackson went faced with a nullification crisis

708
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.280
<v Speaker 2>from South Carolina, was about to raise an army of

709
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:26.159
<v Speaker 2>ten thousand volunteers, which he also was going to go

710
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:30.519
<v Speaker 2>into South Carolina with the troops, and he was heard

711
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.159
<v Speaker 2>to have said that he was going to personally hang

712
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.079
<v Speaker 2>the governor of South Carolina from the tallest tree he

713
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:41.639
<v Speaker 2>could find in Charleston. Very different attitude, George Washington, but

714
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.159
<v Speaker 2>right he put that. You know, the nullification crisis never

715
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.480
<v Speaker 2>came down to it. The South Carolina gave way in

716
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.880
<v Speaker 2>the end. And I think I think Jackson transformed the

717
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 2>presidency from this kind of you know, you know, classic

718
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Republican virtue to break the tribune of the people the

719
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, the the pub essitary president who claimed that

720
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 2>he was the representative of the people and was going

721
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.760
<v Speaker 2>to fight the Supreme Court and fight Congress and sometimes

722
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>would fight dirty in order to protect the people. You know,

723
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.039
<v Speaker 2>if there's any president who I'm sure Trump models himself after,

724
00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:19.079
<v Speaker 2>it would be Andrew Jackson. That was such a much

725
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>better story than whatever Steve wrote about. I already forget

726
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.639
<v Speaker 2>what Steve Essay said. Steve, you you defender, Steve, what

727
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you tell them what you're Steve, you tell them plagiarized?

728
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.559
<v Speaker 3>No, no, I quoted people, But I know that drive.

729
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:39.079
<v Speaker 1>The title what like a poor cover banding teaming.

730
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh no, that was the That was not my headline.

731
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:44.480
<v Speaker 3>That was the headline that Richard picked for the site.

732
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.840
<v Speaker 3>I forget what I I forget what my original headline was.

733
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Speaker 1>No.

734
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.639
<v Speaker 3>I wrote for the more abstract treatment of the ambiguity

735
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.639
<v Speaker 3>of executive power as Harvey Mansfield understood it in Taming

736
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:57.320
<v Speaker 3>the Prince, which I still think is the best book

737
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.559
<v Speaker 3>on the long arch of political philosophy as it bears

738
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 3>on the exercise of executive power. That book explains why

739
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.599
<v Speaker 3>and how you should understand the actions of Jackson. I

740
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.920
<v Speaker 3>did talk about how statesmanship used to be. Statesmen and

741
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.199
<v Speaker 3>statesmanship were words you used to hear historians, journalists, and

742
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.400
<v Speaker 3>political scientists use until about fifty years ago, when suddenly

743
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:25.719
<v Speaker 3>academics turned on the phrase because it's an egalitarian, it's sexist,

744
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:29.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, states men really stupid things like that, And

745
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 3>so now you never see the word used anymore, and

746
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 3>it's thought to be you know, subjective, unscientific, all the rest.

747
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.840
<v Speaker 3>So I pushed back on all that, and although I

748
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.400
<v Speaker 3>will say, if we had a more robust understanding of

749
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 3>the latitude of executive power, we wouldn't need to clean

750
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.519
<v Speaker 3>Air Act. Which, by the way, if listeners you don't

751
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.599
<v Speaker 3>realize it does not appear in the article at all.

752
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 3>John just sees it in between the lines because he's

753
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 3>learning esoteric reading.

754
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.800
<v Speaker 2>John, Right, you know we have to he's teaching me

755
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:01.840
<v Speaker 2>what to be afraid of.

756
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, there you go. Right. Anyway, it's you know,

757
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to revive the term and the category it

758
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:12.719
<v Speaker 3>connects to prudence, which I know you don't understand John either.

759
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 3>You think that was just cost benefit analysis or something ridiculous. Yes,

760
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.079
<v Speaker 3>but no, that's completely wrong. But I will say this

761
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.719
<v Speaker 3>about one point about Jackson, and this was the point

762
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:26.039
<v Speaker 3>of view all Evind's essay in the same package. And

763
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I guess Gary, Gary and Joe's article two is ultimately

764
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:34.639
<v Speaker 3>we judge the constitutional executive, that is, the American President,

765
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.960
<v Speaker 3>by how faithfully they understand and defend the Constitution. And

766
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.400
<v Speaker 3>so when you say, you know Jackson contested with the court,

767
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.960
<v Speaker 3>or how did you put it stronger than that? But

768
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.480
<v Speaker 3>the point is is that he didn't defy the courts.

769
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.360
<v Speaker 3>But what he said was, well, the most famous one

770
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.199
<v Speaker 3>is a veto message for the National Bank, and he said,

771
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:56.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't care if the Supreme Court says the National

772
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.519
<v Speaker 3>Bank is constitutional. I don't think it is. And my

773
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:03.079
<v Speaker 3>constant titutional power is I get the veto legislation from

774
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:05.840
<v Speaker 3>Congress extending the National Bank, and I'm going to do

775
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.400
<v Speaker 3>that because guess what, Presidents get to interpret the Constitution too.

776
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 3>With this became known as right, the theory of a

777
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 3>coordinate review, which Lincoln grabbed hold of. Right. I mean, Lincoln,

778
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.880
<v Speaker 3>a very different type of person than Jackson in a

779
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.800
<v Speaker 3>lot of ways, had a lot of regard for Jackson

780
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.679
<v Speaker 3>on exactly this point. Forget his colorful personal life, just

781
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 3>as most of us overlook a certain aspect of Trump's

782
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:32.960
<v Speaker 3>carryings on over the decades, and noticed that he was

783
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.480
<v Speaker 3>a defender of the Constitution in ways that I think

784
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.800
<v Speaker 3>are quite important and useful and lasting.

785
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:44.440
<v Speaker 2>There seeing my article is so much more interesting than yours,

786
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.840
<v Speaker 2>just a history lesson Mine was philosophy, Right.

787
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:52.199
<v Speaker 3>Lucretia, you want to thump either one of us or

788
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:57.119
<v Speaker 3>you just want to be weekend? Okay, All right, well,

789
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.159
<v Speaker 3>then let's just go another quick break. I mean we'll

790
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.519
<v Speaker 3>have I'll have links to these articles in the show notes,

791
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:03.760
<v Speaker 3>and let's just take a quick break and then we'll

792
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:06.280
<v Speaker 3>come back, and I think we we'll see a theme

793
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:09.320
<v Speaker 3>actually with all three of these topics today when we

794
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:17.199
<v Speaker 3>come back right after these messages. All right, now, it's

795
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.000
<v Speaker 3>my turn to bring up something that caught my eye

796
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.719
<v Speaker 3>this week, and it's a Law Review article and some

797
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:26.039
<v Speaker 3>of their time, john we got to talk to you

798
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.440
<v Speaker 3>about what's wrong with Law Review article style, and both

799
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 3>Lucretian and I think it's nuts the way the footnotes

800
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:31.880
<v Speaker 3>go on forever and all the rest of that. But

801
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.639
<v Speaker 3>never mind, interesting law review article from a young guy

802
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.119
<v Speaker 3>that Lucretian I know, and I think Johnny might have

803
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:41.199
<v Speaker 3>met named a Dion Kathawa. He's a graduate of University

804
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:43.599
<v Speaker 3>of Notre Dame Law School, where he studied with Amy

805
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:46.480
<v Speaker 3>Cony Barrett when she was on the faculty there. He's

806
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:48.880
<v Speaker 3>clerked at the Michigan Supreme Court and for some federal

807
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:52.719
<v Speaker 3>judges and has this article out called we the People

808
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.760
<v Speaker 3>are the last word on the meaning of our Constitution

809
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:58.960
<v Speaker 3>and he makes a pretty bold argument that I'm not

810
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.840
<v Speaker 3>sure I'm entirely down with. And the way I'll summarize

811
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.679
<v Speaker 3>it as this. Essentially, what it says is Congress ought

812
00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:10.039
<v Speaker 3>to have the power to override Supreme Court decisions they

813
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:13.719
<v Speaker 3>think is wrong, because Congress is the best vehicle in

814
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:19.880
<v Speaker 3>our political system to express the closest to the people.

815
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:21.880
<v Speaker 3>And his whole point is is that, I mean, the

816
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.639
<v Speaker 3>way I put it in class to students is the

817
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Constitution does not begin we the lawyers or we the judges.

818
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:30.239
<v Speaker 3>It's we the people. And Lucretia likes to draw our

819
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:33.360
<v Speaker 3>attention to that passage in was it Federals fifty one

820
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 3>or fifty five? It says ad a dependence on the

821
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.280
<v Speaker 3>people is the primary safeguard of Republican government. Is that

822
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:42.239
<v Speaker 3>how you go ahead?

823
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.599
<v Speaker 1>No context on that quote is a little bit important.

824
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.199
<v Speaker 1>Then the context is it's the whole discussion of the

825
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:53.800
<v Speaker 1>checks and balances on the separation of powers that are

826
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:59.719
<v Speaker 1>actually themselves. When it comes to the powers that are

827
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.760
<v Speaker 1>given into the three branches of government in the Constitution,

828
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:06.719
<v Speaker 1>the anti federalists are quite upset about the fact that

829
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:11.079
<v Speaker 1>they're not clearly defined according to the branch's powers, according

830
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:13.599
<v Speaker 1>to the nature of the powers that they that branch

831
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.519
<v Speaker 1>is supposed to represent. So why are legislative powers, for instance,

832
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.679
<v Speaker 1>given to the president. You don't have a real separation

833
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.039
<v Speaker 1>of powers. So that's what Madison is taking up, and

834
00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:27.039
<v Speaker 1>he says, going through all of this, and you know,

835
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:29.760
<v Speaker 1>talking about how it is that each of these Czechs

836
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:33.679
<v Speaker 1>can actually help to prevent tyranny, tyranny and government. And

837
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:37.320
<v Speaker 1>the biggest concern, of course in Federalists forty seven through

838
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:42.480
<v Speaker 1>fifty one is legislative supremacy or legislative tyranny. And so

839
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:47.480
<v Speaker 1>most of the checks and balances that the Constitution brings

840
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:50.119
<v Speaker 1>to bear are brought against the legislative branch. You know,

841
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:54.639
<v Speaker 1>things like a by camera legislature and the presidential veto,

842
00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:00.360
<v Speaker 1>and you could go on. When Madison makes that ourment.

843
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.800
<v Speaker 1>He says, a dependence on the people is, no doubt

844
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the primary control on government. But experience has taught mankind

845
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:15.119
<v Speaker 1>the necessity of auxiliary precautions. So a dependence on the people,

846
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 1>not a dependence on the people's representatives. That's where I

847
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.920
<v Speaker 1>think our good friend Dionne is wrong. All of his

848
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.199
<v Speaker 1>justifications and rationale leading up to it are absolutely okay.

849
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:31.519
<v Speaker 1>My argument, just so you know, Steve I said, I I, I,

850
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, articulate it as briefly as I can. My

851
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.039
<v Speaker 1>argument is, and John's going to go nuts over this,

852
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:44.880
<v Speaker 1>that the Supreme Court should in fact protect our rights.

853
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:48.239
<v Speaker 1>It is, according to Lisa, federalist papers up to Congress

854
00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:52.320
<v Speaker 1>to define our rights. But you know, Marshall's argument about

855
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:57.719
<v Speaker 1>the judiciary is, you know, that's our job basically is

856
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:01.280
<v Speaker 1>to say what the constitution means. But he also says,

857
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 1>don't ever think that because we're deciding in favor of

858
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the constitutions because we're superior. It's because the Constitution is superior. Anyway,

859
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.280
<v Speaker 1>back to the point is, over.

860
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 4>The years, I have no dispute with anything.

861
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:15.159
<v Speaker 2>I know.

862
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.159
<v Speaker 1>This is what I think you're going to disagree with John.

863
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.800
<v Speaker 1>Just so you know, quick, and I'll be quick. I'm sorry.

864
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:27.840
<v Speaker 1>I believe that over the years, the American people and

865
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:31.400
<v Speaker 1>even the two branches of Congress have become much too

866
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:35.760
<v Speaker 1>deferential to the Supreme Court to be the final arbiter,

867
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.719
<v Speaker 1>to the point where the people themselves have given up

868
00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:44.239
<v Speaker 1>what Madison kind of said was their sacred responsibility, which

869
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:48.239
<v Speaker 1>was ultimately the Supreme Court is the same kind of

870
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:52.840
<v Speaker 1>failed human being, the non angel that Madison speaks of,

871
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:59.800
<v Speaker 1>and is easily as as capable of misinterpreting the Constitution

872
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 1>either of the other two branches are. And it's up

873
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:08.760
<v Speaker 1>to the people exercising their sovereign power to keep our

874
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:12.159
<v Speaker 1>government from becoming a tyranny. Now, we can't expect that

875
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:15.239
<v Speaker 1>to happen every single time government does something wrong. And

876
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.880
<v Speaker 1>it's nice to have, as Madison put those auxiliary precautions.

877
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:20.960
<v Speaker 1>But I think that this is the point, John, I

878
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:24.840
<v Speaker 1>think you'll disagree with. Is the Supreme Court doing that

879
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Speaker 1>all of these years, making decisions about whether or not

880
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:33.079
<v Speaker 1>our COVID policies were too we're taking away religious freedom

881
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.199
<v Speaker 1>rights or this. You know, Just as we could go

882
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:39.719
<v Speaker 1>on and on with examples, the American people have stopped

883
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.960
<v Speaker 1>believing it's their job, and they defer much too easily

884
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.519
<v Speaker 1>to the Supreme Court to determine what their rights are.

885
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:50.719
<v Speaker 2>That's my disagree with that. We've definitely period judicial supremacy.

886
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And I'm a departmentalist and I think that's you know,

887
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.199
<v Speaker 2>the coordinate branch construction is what Steve called it. Well,

888
00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:59.000
<v Speaker 2>let me give jackson view and the link of view

889
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:01.719
<v Speaker 2>I think is correct. But that's a view of the

890
00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:04.599
<v Speaker 2>people too. They don't trust themselves interpret the Constitution and

891
00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:06.400
<v Speaker 2>they'd rather have the Supreme Court do it, and they

892
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.199
<v Speaker 2>don't challenge it enough. That's not the Court's fault, that's

893
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the American people's fault.

894
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:14.679
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So let me develop this argument. Yeah, you jump

895
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:16.000
<v Speaker 3>the gun a little bit on. I want to get

896
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:18.480
<v Speaker 3>a little bit more of the architecture's argument fully out,

897
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:20.079
<v Speaker 3>and I may move some of this around because that

898
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.280
<v Speaker 3>was a well okay. His argument is built on the

899
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.599
<v Speaker 3>sovereignty of the people and the consent of the government,

900
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 3>and he says that, you know, Congress is the closest

901
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:34.280
<v Speaker 3>to the people. He does, by the way, he does

902
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.840
<v Speaker 3>give a footnote giving a shout out to our natural

903
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:39.639
<v Speaker 3>law discussion on the political question. Substack so that was nice.

904
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:41.880
<v Speaker 3>So we show up in this article.

905
00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:45.559
<v Speaker 2>Also also bizarre that anyone would cite anything on our

906
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:47.199
<v Speaker 2>substack in a Larview article.

907
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:50.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh come on, you guys, Well I should have directed

908
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.400
<v Speaker 3>your attention to that, since I think you guys just

909
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:56.760
<v Speaker 3>skimmed this. There is one part I think, okay, well

910
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.679
<v Speaker 3>you okay, one part. One part of the article I

911
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:01.800
<v Speaker 3>think is odds He says, Hey, the Canadians do something

912
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:04.480
<v Speaker 3>like this, and I'm never a fan of Canadian constitutionalism.

913
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:09.800
<v Speaker 3>I'll just put that out there for skied. Okay, okay.

914
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:14.239
<v Speaker 3>But then you know he does in good sort of

915
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:17.719
<v Speaker 3>Tomistic fashion, because Dion's a devout Catholic. He does take

916
00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:20.760
<v Speaker 3>up objections the way Aquinas would. And one of them,

917
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:24.280
<v Speaker 3>the most important one, I think, is uh well twofold

918
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.760
<v Speaker 3>one is is that the reason we have these countermajoritarian

919
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:31.400
<v Speaker 3>features like judicial review is precisely to be a bulwark

920
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:34.760
<v Speaker 3>against transient majorities, you know, the passions of the of

921
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:39.079
<v Speaker 3>the mob. That's always been the downfall of pure democracies. Right.

922
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:42.800
<v Speaker 3>And his counter argument back is one that I thought

923
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 3>is pretty bold. I'll just quote him here. He says

924
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.199
<v Speaker 3>that the political branches are more subject to popular pressure. Is, however,

925
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:55.800
<v Speaker 3>a point in favor of my basic argument. Boy, well

926
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:57.880
<v Speaker 3>he's you know, good for him, he's not backing down

927
00:50:57.920 --> 00:50:59.920
<v Speaker 3>on all this. But I don't know, I just make

928
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:00.519
<v Speaker 3>you don't.

929
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Really like, why bother have a written constitution? If he's right,

930
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.599
<v Speaker 2>why not just have a British constitution?

931
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Right, that can be amended by the House of Commons.

932
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, And you just have to be clear what

933
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.639
<v Speaker 2>you're doing is legislation or constitution making. But right, the

934
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:21.199
<v Speaker 2>whole point of writing it down is to prevent majorities

935
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:24.320
<v Speaker 2>or the or even put aside trans majority. Sometimes you

936
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:25.880
<v Speaker 2>just don't want the people to be able to do

937
00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:29.239
<v Speaker 2>something unless you're really really sure a super majority that

938
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.280
<v Speaker 2>people want to what's wrong with that?

939
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, it's not so much we would have to

940
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:36.639
<v Speaker 1>stop that. It's not that I disagree, But that's not

941
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.480
<v Speaker 1>the whole story, John, It's not so much a supermajority,

942
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:45.159
<v Speaker 1>even a super majority, can act unconstitutionally in the sense

943
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:53.239
<v Speaker 1>that the only genuine constitutional appropriate Listen, I can explain

944
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:58.480
<v Speaker 1>the only legitimate activity of a majority or a supermajority

945
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.800
<v Speaker 1>is when they act in the public interest, and when

946
00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:04.519
<v Speaker 1>they do so in a way that does not deprive

947
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.079
<v Speaker 1>any size minority of their fundamental rights. That's what makes

948
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:16.639
<v Speaker 1>legitimate government, and majority rule is an imperfect way of

949
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.800
<v Speaker 1>the sovereign people governing themselves. The entire Constitution, as you

950
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.199
<v Speaker 1>put it, I'll put it a little differently. It's there

951
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.320
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that the majority doesn't run away with

952
00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:31.880
<v Speaker 1>the rights of other citizens or the permanent and aggregate

953
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:33.119
<v Speaker 1>interests of the community.

954
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, so you're saying there are some things that you

955
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.400
<v Speaker 2>cannot do through the constitutional amendment process. So, for example,

956
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:46.320
<v Speaker 2>suppose that in the constitutional amending process, the core the

957
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:50.880
<v Speaker 2>people were to eliminate, say, juri trial, they just said,

958
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.639
<v Speaker 2>we're not going to have dury trial rights. Very few

959
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:56.920
<v Speaker 2>countries have them anymore. We're going to just have We're

960
00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.119
<v Speaker 2>just going to do it the way everybody else in

961
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:00.880
<v Speaker 2>the world does it with a judge jury trial. Right,

962
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Are you saying that the people are unconstant would be

963
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:08.280
<v Speaker 2>violating the Constitution by changing the Constitution through two thirds

964
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:09.519
<v Speaker 2>what three quarters?

965
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:10.280
<v Speaker 4>I don't I don't think.

966
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying that about jury trials. But what I

967
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:18.719
<v Speaker 1>will say is that the people would be violating fundamental

968
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:24.079
<v Speaker 1>natural law by repealing the Thirteenth amendment. We've had this

969
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:25.039
<v Speaker 1>discussion before.

970
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.239
<v Speaker 2>What about So you would say there are certain things

971
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 2>that are in the constitution which cannot be changed, I say.

972
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.360
<v Speaker 4>The amendment process. Yeah, just said it would be unconstitutional.

973
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:43.679
<v Speaker 1>I think of your favorite person, John's Thomas Jefferson in

974
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:46.840
<v Speaker 1>his What Is It Is farewell is inaugural address where

975
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:52.119
<v Speaker 1>he says the majority rule to be rightful, must be

976
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:56.119
<v Speaker 1>reasonable and that the minority have how executive I forget

977
00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:59.119
<v Speaker 1>exactly how this the minority rights are respected. That's the

978
00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:04.079
<v Speaker 1>definition of legitimate government. Now, of course, everything, every single

979
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 1>law that's passed by some kind of majoritarian process is

980
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.199
<v Speaker 1>going to disadvantage a minority. It's always going to do that.

981
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:18.199
<v Speaker 1>You know that. That's the nature of laws is that

982
00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:22.480
<v Speaker 1>they discriminate, they create classes. What our constitution requires, and

983
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:27.400
<v Speaker 1>what I think legitimate government requires or natural law requires,

984
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:35.719
<v Speaker 1>is that those that those actions. Sorry, I just got

985
00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:38.639
<v Speaker 1>a notification that the border patrols of my neighborhood looking

986
00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:44.440
<v Speaker 1>for some until lock my door. Sorry, that's so sorry, Steve.

987
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:45.679
<v Speaker 1>That just completely threw me.

988
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:49.880
<v Speaker 4>Time law enforcement has visited Lucretia.

989
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:56.679
<v Speaker 3>Actually so so while Lucretia is finding out if ice

990
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.119
<v Speaker 3>is surrounding her house because it's a sanctuary, because she's

991
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.880
<v Speaker 3>been secretly I think, a sanctuary for migrants.

992
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Right again, they're just taking up their old positions, as

993
00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:06.320
<v Speaker 2>they say, the.

994
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:11.360
<v Speaker 3>Military, right right. Well, look, let me bring up an

995
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:14.920
<v Speaker 3>example that I've got a surprise, dion or I would

996
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 3>challenge deon and by the way, I have told him

997
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 3>that we will try to have him on to make

998
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:20.880
<v Speaker 3>his case under butt us at some point down the

999
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:23.039
<v Speaker 3>road when we can schedule a time, which has been

1000
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:26.800
<v Speaker 3>hard lately. You remember this from more than thirty years ago, now,

1001
00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:29.960
<v Speaker 3>I think when the Supreme Court struck down statutes banning

1002
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 3>flag burning as a violation of the First Amendment, Congress

1003
00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:36.239
<v Speaker 3>immediately passed a new law in the way you would

1004
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:38.559
<v Speaker 3>think Diana is suggesting, which is right. Congress is going

1005
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:41.719
<v Speaker 3>to say, no, Court, we're sorry, we think you're wrong here,

1006
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:45.400
<v Speaker 3>and that law was immediately challenged and the court said, no,

1007
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:50.639
<v Speaker 3>we're not impressed. That's against the First Amendment. Also right now,

1008
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:54.760
<v Speaker 3>of course, as I have said before, nobody thought nobody

1009
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:57.119
<v Speaker 3>had the wit to use the Clean Air Actian banned

1010
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:01.480
<v Speaker 3>flag burning against pollution. But nonetheless, but I mean, you know,

1011
00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:04.440
<v Speaker 3>isn't that First of all, do you think that? I mean,

1012
00:56:04.519 --> 00:56:06.039
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's two questions here, and nic could go

1013
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:08.679
<v Speaker 3>on a long time. One is, isn't that an exercise

1014
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:11.719
<v Speaker 3>of you know, what Dean is saying, is the Court

1015
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.239
<v Speaker 3>saying no, we are Congress saying we think the Supreme

1016
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.639
<v Speaker 3>Court's wrong and we're going to override them. By the way,

1017
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:19.400
<v Speaker 3>I think there was a lopsided vote on the flag

1018
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:21.480
<v Speaker 3>burning I think it passed the House and Senate by

1019
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:22.400
<v Speaker 3>big majorities.

1020
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I actually have to confess I worked on

1021
00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:26.159
<v Speaker 2>it when I worked in Congress.

1022
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:29.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh did you okay? Okay? And then the second one

1023
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:31.199
<v Speaker 3>is what what do we think of that? I mean,

1024
00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I think, without reopening the whole question of First Amendment jurisprudence,

1025
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:39.280
<v Speaker 3>I think flag burning is expression and not speech, and

1026
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.880
<v Speaker 3>is easily within the reach of the police power of government.

1027
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.079
<v Speaker 3>But that's been a losing argument even with Justice Scalia.

1028
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, especially Justice Scilly, he gave the fifth he provided

1029
00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:53.280
<v Speaker 2>the fifth vote to say uphold flag burning right as

1030
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:55.519
<v Speaker 2>protected by the First I know, I think what the

1031
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:59.480
<v Speaker 2>better case, a more meaningful case, because this whole flag.

1032
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:00.519
<v Speaker 4>Burning thing is very symbolic.

1033
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:04.599
<v Speaker 2>Obviously, it's a religious freedom restoration actor where right the court,

1034
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:09.159
<v Speaker 2>the Congress has tried to overrule, unsuccessfully, the court's decision

1035
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:14.199
<v Speaker 2>that right religious minorities don't have a right to seek

1036
00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:17.320
<v Speaker 2>an exception from generally applicable laws like the drug laws,

1037
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:21.800
<v Speaker 2>for example, in their religious practices. So I look, there's

1038
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:24.079
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a number of problems with this argument.

1039
00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:26.079
<v Speaker 2>And this is not a new argument, mind you. I mean,

1040
00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:28.280
<v Speaker 2>this is an argument that the progressives came up with

1041
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:34.159
<v Speaker 2>that Teddy Roosevelt, yeah, trust Congress to yeah, yeah, they

1042
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:36.760
<v Speaker 2>wanted Congress or referendum to over you know, I think

1043
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:40.599
<v Speaker 2>they wanted sixty percent or fifty five percent, But some

1044
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:43.239
<v Speaker 2>proposals were just a simple majority should be able to

1045
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:44.960
<v Speaker 2>overrule Supreme Court decisions.

1046
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:46.880
<v Speaker 4>So this is not a new idea.

1047
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 2>In fact, there's some very radical left wingers who like

1048
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:54.440
<v Speaker 2>this idea, like Bruce Ackerman is someone who also you know,

1049
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:58.800
<v Speaker 2>goes around making these arguments. But look, first, even if

1050
00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:01.079
<v Speaker 2>you thought this was true, why do you think Congress

1051
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:05.000
<v Speaker 2>is a more authoritative right vehicle for the expression of

1052
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:05.960
<v Speaker 2>the views of the people.

1053
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:09.079
<v Speaker 4>Why wouldn't it be the president? Right?

1054
00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.840
<v Speaker 2>What I mean, why can't the president overrule Supreme Court

1055
00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:15.280
<v Speaker 2>opinions instead of Congress if he were, if this argument

1056
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 2>were correct. I mean, there's a lot of articles in

1057
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:22.400
<v Speaker 2>political science about how how Congress is dysfunctional, how it

1058
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:27.119
<v Speaker 2>often reverses Lucretia's worry. It's not that the majority imposes

1059
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:31.239
<v Speaker 2>costs on the minority. Congress often allows a minority of

1060
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:35.079
<v Speaker 2>rent seekers to oppress the majority. Right, So why would

1061
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:38.119
<v Speaker 2>we ever trust Congress to be the more authoritative voice

1062
00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:41.760
<v Speaker 2>of the people. And I think that's what departmentalism really is,

1063
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.800
<v Speaker 2>is that each of the branches is competing always to

1064
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.719
<v Speaker 2>try to be closer to the view of the people

1065
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and to protect the Constitution. I don't really see why

1066
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Congress is the chosen institution. It may actually make more

1067
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:55.599
<v Speaker 2>errors than the other two branches.

1068
00:58:56.800 --> 00:59:01.239
<v Speaker 1>The founders thought too, yes, founder side. And let me

1069
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:04.079
<v Speaker 1>just say this, Steve. When I try to explain this

1070
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:08.800
<v Speaker 1>to students in the most basic ways to discussing separation

1071
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.719
<v Speaker 1>of powers and checks and balances, one of the examples

1072
00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:16.119
<v Speaker 1>that I like to use think about when a politician,

1073
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.800
<v Speaker 1>when a member of Congress gets in front of the

1074
00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:26.159
<v Speaker 1>cameras and spouts off something and the almost inevitably invariably

1075
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:30.159
<v Speaker 1>there will be a phrase the American people demand. The

1076
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:33.079
<v Speaker 1>American people are not in favor the American people want.

1077
00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:36.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, they don't speak for the damn American people.

1078
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:39.639
<v Speaker 1>But Madison warns us that they're going to pretend like

1079
00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:43.440
<v Speaker 1>they do at every opportunity. And boy, was Madison ever

1080
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:45.920
<v Speaker 1>write about that. That's a I'm with John on this.

1081
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I like the fact that there's this continuous struggle, this

1082
00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:55.199
<v Speaker 1>continuous you know, attempt at equilibrium between the three branches.

1083
00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:57.840
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think that the Supreme Court is the

1084
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.199
<v Speaker 1>final authority in the Cooper versus a In style, for sure,

1085
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:05.119
<v Speaker 1>But I also don't think that Congresses. And I think

1086
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:07.840
<v Speaker 1>the Founding fathers were most worried about Congress in that

1087
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:10.800
<v Speaker 1>respect because of its closeness to the people.

1088
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Right, well, this guy, you know, this this author, if

1089
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:18.559
<v Speaker 2>he's opposed by both me and THEU Cretia just.

1090
01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:22.360
<v Speaker 4>Right now, I'm.

1091
01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Gonna call him Neon Dion, after the other famous person

1092
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:28.599
<v Speaker 3>named Dion. Look good for him for putting out a

1093
01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:32.239
<v Speaker 3>provocative argument. We will try and have him on at

1094
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:34.320
<v Speaker 3>some point to rough him up and talk. He's a

1095
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:39.800
<v Speaker 3>great guy. Uh yeah, and and uh yeah, no, he's great.

1096
01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:42.360
<v Speaker 3>He's going places he's but and good for him for

1097
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:44.280
<v Speaker 3>putting out a bold argument like this. But with that,

1098
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:46.760
<v Speaker 3>we'll take our last quick break and we'll close out

1099
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:49.559
<v Speaker 3>the show with some new materials, so you won't want

1100
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:55.280
<v Speaker 3>to go away, all right, Lucretia, you you managed to

1101
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:57.719
<v Speaker 3>get enough bandwidth to summon up a few Babylon bees

1102
01:00:57.760 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 3>for us. Give us just.

1103
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:01.920
<v Speaker 1>A few, but there some of them are quite appropriate.

1104
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Uh Man, really excited for government to release all the

1105
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:09.360
<v Speaker 1>government documentation of all the government's crimes.

1106
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:13.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's pretty good.

1107
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, this one's my favorite. I do exempt myself from this.

1108
01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:22.079
<v Speaker 1>Very hypocritical of me, but uber to begin offering writers

1109
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:34.400
<v Speaker 1>choice a woman driver or good driver. Yeah, disheveled Colbert

1110
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:40.000
<v Speaker 1>seen holding up cardboard sign. We'll yell about Trump for cash. Yeah, okay,

1111
01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:43.840
<v Speaker 1>last two, and this is a there's so many more.

1112
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Obama argues he can't be charged with treason since he

1113
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:54.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't born in America. Yeah, I know, give me one more.

1114
01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Obama awarded Nobel Peace Prize for exemplary work planning Russian

1115
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:01.400
<v Speaker 1>collusion hoax.

1116
01:02:03.119 --> 01:02:10.159
<v Speaker 3>They finally found something adeed that he did, right, Yeah, yes, right, okay, okay, John.

1117
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:13.039
<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm still I'm still in my.

1118
01:02:14.599 --> 01:02:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Reduced version of my sign off because, as you guys said,

1119
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:19.599
<v Speaker 2>we need to think of another.

1120
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:20.400
<v Speaker 4>One to add for mine.

1121
01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.559
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, mine is just always drink your whiskey, Meat

1122
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:24.360
<v Speaker 2>and Steve.

1123
01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:29.199
<v Speaker 3>I have got new material. I asked chat GBT to

1124
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:32.360
<v Speaker 3>provide us some lyrics if Lewis Carroll was a listener

1125
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:35.280
<v Speaker 3>of this podcast, And here are two stanzas of a

1126
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.840
<v Speaker 3>brilliant long poem, and then go as follows the jabberwonks

1127
01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:44.599
<v Speaker 3>of policy. Flee when whiskey and wit poor easily. No

1128
01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:49.559
<v Speaker 3>safe space, sillies, no shallow cheer, just bracing thought and

1129
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.960
<v Speaker 3>twelve year gear. So till your glass the logic bound

1130
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:58.760
<v Speaker 3>kin let the conversation splash within where speech is free

1131
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.800
<v Speaker 3>and nonsense howers. It's the three whiskey happy Hour.

1132
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:06.400
<v Speaker 4>I think that's pretty good.

1133
01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:08.719
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was really much better than usual.

1134
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:35.840
<v Speaker 5>Bye bye, everybody, We'll see you all next week.

1135
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:05.360
<v Speaker 4>Ricochet joined the conversation.

1136
01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:07.480
<v Speaker 3>M HM
