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<v Speaker 1>All right, don't forget you can hear the CFE semi

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<v Speaker 1>final at the Capitol One Orange Bowl. Let's give the

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<v Speaker 1>sponsor a shout out tonight following the Craig Smith Coaches Show.

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<v Speaker 1>Notre Dame Penn State and our next guest, I have

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<v Speaker 1>to imagine is excited for it Tonight's festivities, Uncle Ted,

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<v Speaker 1>as he's gone around these parts, the great Ted Robinson

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<v Speaker 1>on a Thursday. Ted, Happy Thursday, sir, how are you well?

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<v Speaker 2>It's great to be back with you. Happy New Year?

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I mean it's it's nice to see and look,

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<v Speaker 2>Penn State's a terrific school itself, so and I think

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<v Speaker 2>many of us, I guess you probably are not surprisday

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<v Speaker 2>we say this, are very happy that the SEC is

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<v Speaker 2>not of office. Texas is not the SEC, even though

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<v Speaker 2>they're taking the money from us. It's it's been good.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what, the games last week actually ended

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<v Speaker 2>up being being pretty good. And I was happy for

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<v Speaker 2>that because we all know the first week that Friday

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<v Speaker 2>Saturday was.

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<v Speaker 1>Not good, oh for sure. And you know I do

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<v Speaker 1>want to get to some Macro takeaways. But since you

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<v Speaker 1>are a proud Notre Dame alum, I wanted to have

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<v Speaker 1>you on today to talk about what exactly would it

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<v Speaker 1>mean for this institution, and folks such as yourself did

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<v Speaker 1>care about it. If Notre Dame was not only able

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<v Speaker 1>to win tonight, but go in their first national championship

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<v Speaker 1>since what nineteen eighty.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight, Wow, well yeah, it would mean it would mean

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<v Speaker 2>a ton And I will always proclaim that Notre Dame

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<v Speaker 2>won the national championship in nineteen ninety three since the

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<v Speaker 2>beat Florida State head to head in November and the

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<v Speaker 2>two schools ended up with the same record. But back

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<v Speaker 2>then there was not a whole lot of love for

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<v Speaker 2>Lou Holtz and Bobby Bowden was beloved by the media,

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<v Speaker 2>had never won the national championship, and so they gave

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<v Speaker 2>it to him. And that's just the way it is.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's why, you know, it's one of the many

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<v Speaker 2>reasons why we eventually got to various forms of playoffs

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<v Speaker 2>is because that was just ridiculous. I mean, the two

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<v Speaker 2>teams met head to head in November, not a week zero,

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<v Speaker 2>and Notre Dame beat him and you end up with

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<v Speaker 2>the same record. That usually means the tie break, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But that didn't have an idea anyway. What it would

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<v Speaker 2>mean in the present day would be a lot. It

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<v Speaker 2>would be confirmation for Marcus Freeman. I'm very open with

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that I met Marcus Freeman once. I met

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<v Speaker 2>him last year when Notre Dame played at Stanford the

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<v Speaker 2>final PAC twelve Network football game, very impressive. I'm thrilled

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<v Speaker 2>for the university because it was way too long to

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<v Speaker 2>have diversity in our coaching ranks. Being the prim and

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<v Speaker 2>Catholic university in the world, that should be something that

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<v Speaker 2>is important to us, and we didn't practice it enough

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<v Speaker 2>in my view until recently. And Marcus Freeman even now

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<v Speaker 2>has gotten heat from alums because of some of the

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<v Speaker 2>losses Notre Dame's had in this three years, including Northern

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<v Speaker 2>Illinois this year, and I'm thrilled for the results because

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<v Speaker 2>it just silenced all of that. Admittedly, Notre Dame didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have the toughest schedule this year because the ACC wasn't great.

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<v Speaker 2>USC was not great, so it wasn't it wasn't the

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<v Speaker 2>gauntlet that some of the SEC teams have to face.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's let's be clear on that. But Notre Dame handled

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<v Speaker 2>their business and they handled it pretty well.

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<v Speaker 1>So James Franklin with some comments about his belief that

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<v Speaker 1>every school should have a you know, should be in

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<v Speaker 1>a conference, and Notre Dame has always been the one institution,

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<v Speaker 1>the one brand that's been able to make this model work.

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<v Speaker 1>And if they win the national championship, I think the

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<v Speaker 1>check is twenty twenty one million, which goes to Notre Dame.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't have to split it to the winner, goes

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<v Speaker 3>to Spoil.

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<v Speaker 1>So help us understand a little bit more as to

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<v Speaker 1>why the independent dynamic is so important to the lifeblood

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<v Speaker 1>of not just the football program, but the institution that

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<v Speaker 1>is Notre Dame.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I don't know what I didn't I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with James Franklin's comment there. I don't understand it,

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<v Speaker 2>as you related. I don't know. First of all, none

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<v Speaker 2>of his business. And secondly, I don't know why is

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<v Speaker 2>there a constitutional mandate here that every school has to

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<v Speaker 2>be a part of something that doesn't seem to make

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of sense. But anyway, having said that's,

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<v Speaker 2>let me say two things. One, Notre Dame is really

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<v Speaker 2>part of the conference. They are in the ACC for

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<v Speaker 2>every sport except hockey because the ACC doesn't play hockey.

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<v Speaker 2>Notre Dame actually plays in the Big Ten believe it

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<v Speaker 2>or not hockey conference. They're in the ACC for every

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<v Speaker 2>other sport, and they play between four and five ACC

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<v Speaker 2>games a year. That also means that when the ACC

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<v Speaker 2>school plays at Notre Dame, that school has taken home

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty nice TV paycheck as a visiting team on

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<v Speaker 2>a national NBC telecast. So the one, or I should say,

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<v Speaker 2>the two elements that the independence means for Notre Dame,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's only two, is the TV the home television

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<v Speaker 2>contract only the home games. And secondly, it's scheduling enabled

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<v Speaker 2>to Notre Dame to schedule probably half a dozen games

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<v Speaker 2>a year, including what they termed the Shamrocks Series, which

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<v Speaker 2>means it's a neutral sight game usually in a big

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<v Speaker 2>market in the country that has a lot of Notre

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<v Speaker 2>Dame alms, and Notre Dame schedule is one of those

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<v Speaker 2>every year. That's the extent of their independence. So my

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<v Speaker 2>point to you is it's vastly overrated. I'm also my

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<v Speaker 2>second point would be, this was back in the late nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>probably Jim Delaney opened the door for Notre Dame to

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<v Speaker 2>join the Big Ten as the twelfth member. I was

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<v Speaker 2>very Adam. Within the Notre Dame world, I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was a great idea. I thought we belonged to the

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<v Speaker 2>Big Ten for all of our sports. Women's sports were

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<v Speaker 2>just growing, we were starting to develop Olympic sports, and

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<v Speaker 2>to be in the Big Ten just made a ton

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<v Speaker 2>of sense. For all the apparent reasons, the Notre Dame

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<v Speaker 2>faculty largely wanted that associations of the Big Ten schools,

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<v Speaker 2>not the new Big Ten, but the original Big Ten schools.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of them are excellent academic schools. They're large state

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<v Speaker 2>universities with good library systems, with good research programs, with

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<v Speaker 2>medical schools, and Notre Dame's faculty wanted that association. At

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, football independence won out, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's how powerful it is in the Notre Dame world.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the only reason Notre Dame turned down the

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<v Speaker 2>Big Ten membership, and that has never come back, although

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<v Speaker 2>I suspect it will someday because I think it's known

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<v Speaker 2>the Big Ten has clauses in their TV deals that

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<v Speaker 2>would reflect adding Notre Dame that would have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>more money. So I'm assuming that somewhere down the line

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<v Speaker 2>that opening will come up again for Notre Dame. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know how long it'll take, but I hope that

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<v Speaker 2>Notre Dame the Big ten isn't the Big ten anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>so I have to revise that thought. But I've always

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<v Speaker 2>thought ten the core Big ten is a great place

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<v Speaker 2>for another name to be.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, excuse me.

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<v Speaker 1>We could talk about what the Big ten is right now,

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<v Speaker 1>but we would probably have to recalibrate not too long

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<v Speaker 1>after because everything continues to change and ebb and flow,

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<v Speaker 1>which allows me to transition into more of a macro

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<v Speaker 1>question because I keep using this line over the past

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks ted where I've just leaned into from a

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<v Speaker 1>sports radio approach, diagnosing and not prognosticating, because we're all

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<v Speaker 1>learning this as we go. It's a new format, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a new sports as far as your ability to have

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<v Speaker 1>talent off the field with a transfer portal and the

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<v Speaker 1>and the nil situation, and of course it's a twelve

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<v Speaker 1>team expanded CFP, and all the conferences look much different

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<v Speaker 1>than they did a year ago.

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<v Speaker 3>Most of them do, as far as.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, conferences adding teams, several of the teams that

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<v Speaker 1>you and I are familiar with as the PAC twelve crumbled.

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<v Speaker 1>But since I haven't had a chance to catch up

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<v Speaker 1>with you for a while. How do you feel about

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<v Speaker 1>the current state of college football, the sport that we

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<v Speaker 1>all love to consume.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a wide open palette there, Spence, So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll let me personalize this to my experience this football season.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Pac twelve still existed in the form of

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<v Speaker 2>two schools. As everyone knows, those two schools did a

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<v Speaker 2>television deal with the CW network, which is an over

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<v Speaker 2>the air network has an outlet and I think just

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<v Speaker 2>about every significant market in America. So the Washington State

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<v Speaker 2>and Oregon State home games were aired all on the

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<v Speaker 2>CW this year. I was part of that package. The

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<v Speaker 2>season began with a lot of hope for Oregon State,

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<v Speaker 2>it quickly pivoted to Washington State, and I ended up

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<v Speaker 2>doing five Washington State games. So being around the Cougar

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<v Speaker 2>program a lot this year was the collision of where

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<v Speaker 2>I think college sports are right now. It was an

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly uplifting season for them. I am a huge fan

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<v Speaker 2>of their head coach. I think Jake Dickard is terrific

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<v Speaker 2>and these meant to be a coach and he's only

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<v Speaker 2>forty one years old. The quarterback story having cam Ward

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<v Speaker 2>had this huge build up in the twenty three season

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<v Speaker 2>and then basically fall flat and the Cougars collapsed at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the year. Cam Ward collapsed and then

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<v Speaker 2>he ended up getting a million plus to go to Miami,

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<v Speaker 2>which you saw what happened this year. So what's Washington's

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<v Speaker 2>ta going to do a quarterback? Well, they had a

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<v Speaker 2>kid from Texas who was under recruited. He had been

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<v Speaker 2>there for a couple of years, and it's his turn.

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<v Speaker 2>And John Mattier made himself into a player that I

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<v Speaker 2>actually put on my Heisman ballad this year, that's how

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<v Speaker 2>good he was. The team. Sadly, their defense was not

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<v Speaker 2>good and they collapsed in the last three games and

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<v Speaker 2>took themselves out of you know, they were on the

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<v Speaker 2>fringe of the playoff conversation and would say no more

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<v Speaker 2>than that, but just being there was a miracle, and

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<v Speaker 2>sadly they fell out the last three games. What happens,

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<v Speaker 2>John Mattier goes to Oklahoma. Rumors are three million offensive

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<v Speaker 2>coordinator goes to Oklahoma, and then Jake Dicker turns around

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<v Speaker 2>and I would have even stunned me takes the job

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<v Speaker 2>of Wake Forest. So this incredibly wonderful, uplifting story for

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<v Speaker 2>the school that got left behind. The school that's out

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<v Speaker 2>in the prairies, you know, doesn't have wealthy the roles

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<v Speaker 2>of alums. You know a lot of individuals who succeeded

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<v Speaker 2>in farming an bag and business. But they chip in

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<v Speaker 2>to a collective and they have this wonderful season and

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<v Speaker 2>the program survives the first year of this anarchy, and

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<v Speaker 2>then suddenly it collapses within a couple of days. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm uplifted, and then I'm really dismayed because that's the point,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's very obvious for everyone to see, is that

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<v Speaker 2>the Washington States right now and the Oregon States and

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<v Speaker 2>other programs around the country are just farm teams and

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<v Speaker 2>until there's some order in all of this, and no

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<v Speaker 2>one knows how that's going to happen, but until there is,

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is the case. So to your question

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<v Speaker 2>that I hope that explains this internal collie I've experienced,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so happy to be part of that Washington State

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<v Speaker 2>football season. And at the end, you go, man, that's

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<v Speaker 2>really stinks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah from that vantage point for sure, And there's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>really to debate there because you're not wrong, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know from a local standpoint, Ted, It's interesting to see

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<v Speaker 1>where Utah football finds themselves because, as you know covering

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<v Speaker 1>the program as part of the Pac Tweld Network, Coach

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<v Speaker 1>Witt has built Utah football on the ethos of recruit

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<v Speaker 1>and develop. That's how they do it. And they don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily rely on number of four and five star guys.

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<v Speaker 1>They go find Utah guys and then they bring them

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<v Speaker 1>on campus and over the course of a number of years,

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<v Speaker 1>they basically indoctrinate them into the Kyle Whittingham way. He's

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<v Speaker 1>saying is we will not become you, you will become us.

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<v Speaker 1>In the most successful seasons in Utah football history have

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<v Speaker 1>been with third, fourth, fifth year players that sign on

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<v Speaker 1>the dotted line, often overlooked from other schools, came in

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<v Speaker 1>and learned the Kyle way, put in the work, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, at times it paid off with conference championships

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<v Speaker 1>and Rose Bowl appearances. Can you build a football program

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<v Speaker 1>in the modern day and age of college football with

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<v Speaker 1>the ethos of recruit and develop over time?

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<v Speaker 3>Anymore?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Hard? I mean my initial answer is that Spence

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<v Speaker 2>is really hard. I hope somebody does it. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's I would I'm trying to think of an example

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<v Speaker 2>right now. I mean, it's it's it's I mean, we're

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<v Speaker 2>sitting here waiting tomorrow night to watch Texas play, and

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<v Speaker 2>here's Texas having its best football season in a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone's talking about should the quarterback come back to

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<v Speaker 2>Texas next year or should he get a huge NIL

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<v Speaker 2>deal to go to another school which would likely pay

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<v Speaker 2>more than he would make in his first NFL season.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's what that's. I'm sorry that just lunacy

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<v Speaker 2>what you think of what that means. But it is

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<v Speaker 2>where the world is, and so I would think I

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<v Speaker 2>would take this. Maybe if I can spend a background

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<v Speaker 2>on that question, Spence, here's my concern, having raised kids

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<v Speaker 2>and now raising grandkids, it's extremely wise to respect the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that players athletes now in the top college sports

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<v Speaker 2>can earn. I have no objection to that. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know that any smart minded person has an objection to that.

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<v Speaker 2>The way it's done, maybe that's where we would start

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<v Speaker 2>to have some difference of opinion. And what I feel

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<v Speaker 2>very strongly about is I fear that this generation represented

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<v Speaker 2>by these eighteen to twenty five year olds and damn

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<v Speaker 2>near thirty year olds now in some cases playing college

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<v Speaker 2>athletics are being are being raised and are living through

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<v Speaker 2>an experience completely devoid of character, character commitment. When a

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<v Speaker 2>quits in the middle of the season. How many times

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<v Speaker 2>did we see that top level college football this year

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<v Speaker 2>where quarterback just quit the quarterback of a football team.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there any more leadership demanded position in sport and

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<v Speaker 2>quarterback and football? And you had several guys just quit

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the season on their team, And

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<v Speaker 2>you reference the Kyle phrase with the word US, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very fearful from what I see in football and

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<v Speaker 2>men's basketball, there's no US. It's me me II, me me.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the concept of an athlete being able to

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<v Speaker 2>be compensated when everybody else around them is fine, we

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<v Speaker 2>get that. To do it without character is really I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's long term ramifications for us, way beyond sport.

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<v Speaker 3>Well said, we'll end with because I know you got

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<v Speaker 3>to go.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll end with your thoughts on because the fact of

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<v Speaker 1>the matter is, you know, we can bellier about the

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<v Speaker 1>state of the sport and then you just look at

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<v Speaker 1>the ratings and the numbers, and people are consuming it

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<v Speaker 1>at a historic level, and it happens to be a

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<v Speaker 1>multi billion dollar business with a failed business model, which

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<v Speaker 1>makes it probably very appealing to folks in.

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<v Speaker 3>The private equity world.

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<v Speaker 1>And it does feel like we are in this like

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<v Speaker 1>neoliberal capitalism type takeover of college athletes. On the horizon

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<v Speaker 1>out it feels like very powerful, rich people are going

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<v Speaker 1>to start to buy potentially college football programs. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of rumors already circulating that that thing is going to happen,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is inevitable. Is there part of you that

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<v Speaker 1>is hopeful that at some point the business model of

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<v Speaker 1>college football can be fixed to the level where most

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<v Speaker 1>of the problems that are plaguing the sport can go

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<v Speaker 1>away and we can all kind of sit and enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>whatever the final paradigm shift is with this sport.

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<v Speaker 2>Whenever that happens, yes, I think I think the business

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<v Speaker 2>models in place, I don't think it will change. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>unless somebody else gets a case of the Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 2>and the Supreme Court has another, you know, Judge Kavanaugh

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<v Speaker 2>life decision that reverses things. I think We're way gone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's professional nothing. There's nothing college about the top anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>It's professional. So now to me, the question is how

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<v Speaker 2>in the name of goodness, do we get structured. And

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<v Speaker 2>I listen to smart people who believe now with the

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<v Speaker 2>results of the election, that there's a much better chance

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<v Speaker 2>that Congress will get involved and help orchestrate some guardrails,

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<v Speaker 2>build some guard rails because the universities clearly are I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there is no NCAA anymore, and the universities don't because

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<v Speaker 2>they're all involved in self interest. There's no collective concern

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<v Speaker 2>to build those guard rails. So I believe that that's

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<v Speaker 2>the ultimate answer here, is that the business models in place,

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<v Speaker 2>but let's make it so it's just like the pros

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<v Speaker 2>where everybody can make money in the proch but there's

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<v Speaker 2>a way you do it. There's a structure because and

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<v Speaker 2>you say, why do I have to have structure, Because

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<v Speaker 2>you sell tickets. You're a competitive enterprise. And if we

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<v Speaker 2>don't have competition, then we have wrestling, which is performance.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's fine. If you want to call performance art,

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<v Speaker 2>that's great. That's what wrestling is. And wrestling no longer

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<v Speaker 2>tries to hide it. I think sport doesn't want that.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you want to make sure that we have

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<v Speaker 2>a competitive enterprise, then there has to be structure, which

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<v Speaker 2>the NFL of course, is the gold standard to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure they're all thirty two of their members every year

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<v Speaker 2>have a chance. So I strongly feel that's where this

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<v Speaker 2>thing has to happen. And again I'm not smart enough

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<v Speaker 2>to go. But here's let me throw one other thing

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<v Speaker 2>that you spend because we haven't talked for a while,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll just finish with this. And I thought a

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<v Speaker 2>lot about this during the year, my belief that we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to have a Super League and it could be

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere forty to fifty teams anymore. And I've started to

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<v Speaker 2>realize I think we already had it. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the SEC Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Florida, now that's

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<v Speaker 2>maybe very equivalent to the forty nine Ers, Bears, Giants, Cowboys,

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<v Speaker 2>Eagles of the NFC. The SEC is owned by a network,

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<v Speaker 2>ESPN owns them. The n s C is owned by

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<v Speaker 2>a network Fox. Then you look at the big ten

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<v Speaker 2>and wait a second, we have Michigan, Ohio, State, Penn State, USD.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Oregon is pushing its way into trying to be

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<v Speaker 2>that national brand. And you can say that's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like having the Steelers and the Patriots and the Raiders

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<v Speaker 2>and the Broncos and the Chiefs, and the ASC is

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<v Speaker 2>owned by a network, CBS, and Fox owns the Big Ten.

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<v Speaker 2>They own it. Okay, what's to stop the ESPN and

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<v Speaker 2>Fox and their respective conferences that they owned from just saying, listen,

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<v Speaker 2>each of our leagues, we're just going to play off

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<v Speaker 2>and have a champ. We'll have our Big Ten champ

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<v Speaker 2>and our SEC champ and then we're just going to

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<v Speaker 2>play a super Bowl. The heck with his twelve teams?

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<v Speaker 2>Why are we sharing with Boise State and Notre Dame

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<v Speaker 2>and pay our pen division as they tend, but Arizona State,

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<v Speaker 2>why are we sharing with them? We'll just do our

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<v Speaker 2>own super Bowl, college Bowl, whatever you want to call it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's maybe a more realistic end game, and

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<v Speaker 2>that would achieve the breakaway of the schools that are

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<v Speaker 2>already professional, and it would leave the Florida States and

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<v Speaker 2>Clemson's and the Notre Dames and you know, probably a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of other schools that want to think they're in

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<v Speaker 2>that category to get Wait a second, what about us,

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<v Speaker 2>can't leave us behind?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Ted, when we have more time, you and

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<v Speaker 1>I are just going to fix college football in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>My friends, but I know you have to run. It's

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<v Speaker 1>always a pleasure. I hope you're well, and anytime you

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<v Speaker 1>have time, you know we have time for you here.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, No, and it goes the same way, s Benson.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll enjoy talking to you and say hi everybody. I

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<v Speaker 2>missed coming to see live. I saw Colin in the

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<v Speaker 2>spring Mill miss I missed football as you're and I

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<v Speaker 2>miss seeing Craig and basketball. So hopefully I'll get back soon.

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<v Speaker 3>For sure, we'll be pulling for the Irish tonight. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>all right?

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<v Speaker 1>Great Ted Robinson Notre Dame alum. He is a broadcasting legend.

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<v Speaker 1>He has done everything Olympics, golf, tennis, basketball, football. Was

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<v Speaker 1>the first voice hired by the PAC twelve and obviously

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<v Speaker 1>you know PAC twelve didn't last, sadly,