WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.480 And so that was really where my life. Like the 2 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:05.160 moment I got that call, I knew nothing was ever 3 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:07.200 going to be the same again. You know, I've had 4 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:09.720 lots of bad calls in my life, but they're all savable. 5 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:11.759 You could save a big client that left you, you 6 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.320 can make another sale, you can get a bigger house, 7 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:16.399 you can go to the gym. You can't bring back 8 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.960 the dead. And that to me was as a control freak, 9 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.440 as an alpha male, as somebody that always was able 10 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:29.000 to manipulate my environment. Death is so permanent that I 11 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:31.960 struggled a lot, you know, with that idea that I 12 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.399 can't And that's you know, a lot of guilt and shame. 13 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.359 Like where was I when when Seth was struggling? What 14 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:39.479 was I doing? Was I focused on making money? Was 15 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.600 I worried about what people have thought about this dad 16 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.560 whose son was struggling. I didn't know anybody that had 17 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:46.399 a son and died. When the teachers told me to 18 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.240 take him to the doctor for his lack of focus 19 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:51.679 and attention, that was the beginning of the end of 20 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:52.079 my son. 21 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.840 This is Wake Up with Marci, a space for honest 22 00:00:55.880 --> 00:01:01.240 conversations about healing, recovery and women's wellness. I'm Marcy Hopkins. 23 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:08.799 Take a breath, You're safe here. Let's begin. How do 24 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:12.400 you keep going when your world falls apart, when you've 25 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:15.920 buried your child, when addiction steals the people you love, 26 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:21.159 when the life you built no longer exists. Most people 27 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:24.840 think grief is something you eventually get over. But what 28 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:28.439 if healing isn't about getting over it? What if it's 29 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:34.239 about finding purpose in the pain. Today we're talking about addiction, grief, 30 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.159 mental health, and the extraordinary strength that takes to choose 31 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:40.799 hope after unimaginable loss. 32 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:42.920 Welcome all to. 33 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.959 Wake Up with Marcy. I'm so grateful you are here today. 34 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:51.439 I'm your host, Marcy Hopkins. I am an author, TV host, 35 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.599 motivational speaker, mental health advocate, and a woman in long 36 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.879 term recovery. And on wake Up, we have honest com 37 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.480 conversations about mental health, recovery, and relationships and self discovery 38 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.759 and what it really takes to rebuild your life. In 39 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.840 today's conversation resonates with you. Please like, comment, subscribe, and 40 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:18.400 share this episode with someone who may need to hear it. 41 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:23.039 These conversations save lives, and together we can help break 42 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:28.479 the stigma surrounding addiction and mental health. Today's episode is 43 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:32.439 one that will touch every parent, every family, and every 44 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:37.520 person who has ever loved someone struggling with addiction, or 45 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:43.759 any parent or anyone that has suffered loss. Because addiction 46 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:49.159 and loss don't just affect the individual. It impacts everyone 47 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:54.479 who loves them, and sometimes it leaves behind unimaginable grief. 48 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.000 My guest today is Jeff Johnston. Jeff spent more than 49 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:03.639 three decades building a successful investment firm, managing over eight 50 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:08.400 hundred million dollars in assets. By every outward measure, he 51 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:13.520 had built an extraordinary life. But in twenty sixteen, everything 52 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:17.800 changed when his twenty three year old son Seth died 53 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:22.159 from fentanyl poisoning after what began with a prescription for 54 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:26.759 adderall Then just five years later, Jeff lost his wife Prudence, 55 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:32.159 to alcoholism. Instead of allowing those heartbreaking losses to define him, 56 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:37.879 Jeff dedicated his life to changing the conversation around addiction, grief, 57 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:41.800 and mental health. Today, he is the founder of Living Undeterred, 58 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:47.280 the host of the Living Undeterred podcast, author of This 59 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.719 One's for You, and the creator of Brighton, a new 60 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:56.360 mental wellness platform designed to help people recognize emotional struggles 61 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:02.960 before they become a crisis. Let's meet Jeff Johnston. Jeff, 62 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.520 welcome to Wake Up with Marcy. I'm so grateful you're 63 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.080 here today. 64 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.919 Yeah, I'm excited to have this conversation. It's quite amazing 65 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:14.000 what has transpired in my life the last ten years. 66 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:17.720 But I'm trying to really reframe it as an opportunity 67 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.000 to become a better person, not a bitter person, as 68 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:23.000 I like to say when I share the story, because 69 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:24.800 we all have a story, right, we just need a 70 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:27.759 platform to share it and to pull each other up 71 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.319 from these tough times that we're all in. 72 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:40.879 Yeah, well, you've gone through some really unimaginable times and. 73 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.360 That's what I want. 74 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.399 I want to start with and why this work now 75 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.839 is so important for you. So before you even became 76 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.480 an advocate for addiction and mental health, you were a 77 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:56.399 successful financial advisor. Everything looked really good from the outside, 78 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:01.439 but then your entire world changed. Can you take us 79 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:04.360 back to that time and what was happening for you? 80 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.240 Yeah, to put it in context. So I'm sixty, I'm 81 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.680 sixty years old this year, and I'll go back ten years. 82 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.920 That's kind of where you know, for lack of a 83 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:13.839 better way to say it, where really this all began 84 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.759 for me at that particular on that particular day. It 85 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.160 was October fourth, twenty sixteen, to be exact. So I 86 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.920 was fifty years old, happily married to my lovely wife 87 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:28.480 Prudence for twenty one years. We had three boys. Seth 88 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:30.839 was our oldest, twenty three in Roman and Ian were 89 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.360 fifteen and thirteen. I was running a wealth management firm 90 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:36.560 that I started in my car out of college in 91 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.360 nineteen eighty nine. You know, no internet, no cell phones, 92 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:42.959 just knocking on door selling insurance to start. And by 93 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.680 the time I was fifty, we had we had raised 94 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:49.199 or amassed about eight hundred million dollars of assets under management. 95 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.160 So we had a very thriving boutique wealth management firm 96 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.360 here in Cedar Rapids, IOWA. I had a TV show 97 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:59.839 for five years, Sunday Morning Investment Hour, and then I 98 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:03.079 did radio for about seventeen. Our show was still running 99 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:05.920 even though I'm not in the business anymore. But from 100 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.399 all circumstances, like you said, from the external, you know 101 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.600 I was rotarian. I was you know, I was active 102 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.759 in the community. You know, everything looked perfect, like I 103 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:15.759 had the perfect life, and as you find out, you 104 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.240 know behind the veil. You know, a lot of times 105 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:22.240 these foundations are built very fragile. And you know, on 106 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.199 that particular day, I got a call that every parent dreads, 107 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:27.920 and you know, to call you become a fast member 108 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:29.800 of a club you didn't ask to join in when 109 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.199 you can never leave. And our oldest son, Seth, was 110 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.279 found dead in a hotel room, just like in the movies, 111 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:40.160 a CD hotel room, you know, little room chair in 112 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:42.240 a corner, and he was slumped over with the needle 113 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.079 in his arm. And what Seth had done is he 114 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:48.160 had run into fentanyl. And I never heard of fentanyl. 115 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:50.600 I knew it. Drugs and addiction were because Seth had 116 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:53.839 struggled since he was given adderall at sixteen. In the 117 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.439 minute that adderall hit his body, he was never the same. 118 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.160 And you know, I can say all this in hindsight now, 119 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:00.720 but in the middle of the fire, you don't realize 120 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.759 all this stuff because there's all these other other things 121 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:07.439 pulling at you. And you know, eight years later, everything 122 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:11.120 in between, from drunk drivings and breaking and enterings to cocaine, 123 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.120 you know, and prison, even he was in prison and 124 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.040 was released and then had met somebody that introduced him 125 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.800 to heroin, and so that was really where my life. 126 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:25.319 Like the moment I got that call, I knew nothing 127 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:27.319 was ever going to be the same again. You know, 128 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.240 I've had lots of bad calls in my life, but 129 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:30.240 they're all savable. 130 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:30.560 You know. 131 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.199 You can save a big you could save a big 132 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:34.560 client that left you. You can make another sale, you 133 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.079 can get a bigger house, you can go to the gym. 134 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:42.879 You can't bring back the dead. And and that to 135 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.120 me was as a control freak, as an alpha male, 136 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:49.160 as somebody that always was able to manipulate my environment. 137 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:55.879 Death is so permanent that I struggled a lot, you know, 138 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.560 with that idea that I can't And that's you know 139 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.199 a lot of guilt and shame. Like where was I 140 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.240 when when Seth was struggling? What was I doing? Was 141 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.360 I focused on making money? Was I worried about what 142 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:08.800 people have thought about this dad whose son was struggling. 143 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:10.480 I didn't know anybody that had a son that died. 144 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:13.480 You know, there was a there was no there was 145 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:17.920 no comparable story. I didn't know anybody, you know, It's 146 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:19.560 just it doesn't right. 147 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:23.160 That's why one. It's so important that you are sharing 148 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:28.160 your story and thank you for your strength there. I 149 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:33.320 can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I want 150 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.840 to go back though, you said that he was prescribed 151 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:44.039 after all, So I mean there's a lot of people 152 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.440 out there, a lot of families, you know, our children 153 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:52.120 are being prescribed medications. We're thinking nothing like this could 154 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.559 happen to us. You know, these are things that happened 155 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:57.559 to other people. But what do you what do you 156 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:00.679 wish parents would really understand? 157 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.759 Great question. I appreciate the question. First off, I'm not 158 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.080 a doctor. I'm just his dad from Iowa. That I 159 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.039 tell my story and people can extract from it what 160 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.480 they want. You know, I'm not here to tell you 161 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.519 to get your kid off adderall. I'm sharing how my 162 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.679 son got started. The gateway, the doorway that was cracked 163 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.399 over for him was his abuse of Adderall. And it 164 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:25.399 started by going to parent teacher conferences at our local 165 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.440 high school here, and the teachers are my wife and 166 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.000 I would come in like you do when you have kids, 167 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.120 and you sit down and you know a lot of 168 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.200 times they're very good. But with Seth, it was struggling 169 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.080 in school. So that just didn't really fit into that 170 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.679 standard of memorizing tests and all that stuff. He was 171 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:41.840 great athlete, he was popular amongst his friends, but he 172 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.120 just struggled academically. And I did too. I'd never made 173 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.120 out oferall in high school ever, And I think attention 174 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.320 deficit is a convenient label. When I was younger, they 175 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.080 just called us, you know, hyper or your spas or whatever. 176 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:55.879 But we didn't have these labels now that we just 177 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.759 hand them out like their skittles. And so the teachers 178 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.879 are like, you know, Jeff, you need to take your 179 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.759 son in to get him looked at. And I'm like, why, 180 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:07.080 He's a fifteen year old, red blood American boy, and 181 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.200 I don't see the problem, Like, well, he's disruptive in 182 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.039 class and he's not doing well in school. So the 183 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.360 first mistake I made was believing them. I'm his dad, 184 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:21.320 I'm around him more than they are. They bring cognitive biases, 185 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.799 teachers due to school. They have other kids that distract 186 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:25.600 him too, So it's like it was unfair to label 187 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:28.360 my son that. But at the time, I was just 188 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.399 like focused on other things, and I thought, I'll just 189 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.440 take him to the doctor. Well, a couple doctor visits, 190 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:34.799 and we walked out with this real convenient label on 191 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:39.919 his forehead. Attention deficit disorder. We named it. We can 192 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:42.200 tame it for you, mister Johnston, and we'll tame it 193 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:45.440 by this prescription of this drug called adderall. It's watered 194 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.799 down meth amphetamines. That's all Adderall is. I didn't know that. 195 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.360 I had no idea. My dad's a doctor. I should 196 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.399 have consulted him, but I didn't. I just handed my 197 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:58.120 son the bottle, which was a mistake. But I didn't 198 00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:59.840 even realize that you could take three or four. I 199 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.200 thought he would just take one, like I told him too. 200 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:05.519 And yeah, so you know, I guess the first mistake, 201 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.840 and people want to throw me under the bus. I 202 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.919 don't really care anymore people think about me. I gave 203 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.159 him the bottle. I shouldn't have done that. I didn't. 204 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.159 It didn't dawn on me my dad. I took prescriptions 205 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.519 over my lifetime, and I always just took one and 206 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:21.320 never even consider taking two. But he got abusing it 207 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.320 and selling it at school, and then it just that 208 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.559 opened up the vaping and the alcohol and everything else. 209 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:29.279 And so no, I gas my parents when I keynote 210 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.200 all of the country. You know, where do the start 211 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.360 because everyone wants to relate it to their own children. 212 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.759 And I have to say it was when the teachers 213 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.559 told me to take him to the doctor for his 214 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:40.600 lack of focus and attention. That was the beginning of 215 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:41.799 the end of my son. 216 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:49.960 Well, I mean what I feel from you telling the 217 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.720 story that you feel some sort of guilt. 218 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.399 I don't want to assume your feelings, but no. 219 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.039 I do. I do and I always will and I 220 00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:59.759 respect him Now. I don't fear the guilt. I don't 221 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.320 fear shame. I'm using them as a superpower for me 222 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.720 to make me do what I do. Now, I have 223 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:08.039 to have some element of guilt and shame. I mean 224 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.159 if I took a pill, if you came to me 225 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:11.519 and said, Jeff, I have a pill to get rid 226 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.919 of all your guilt, shame and everything you have, I 227 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.559 wouldn't take it. Yeah, I'd sit on my couch and 228 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.840 watch TV all day and be two hundred pounds and drink. 229 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.320 I need to have this to drive me. I need it. 230 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.000 Not recommending it for everybody. 231 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.000 Yeah, But what what I was going to say is 232 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:33.480 that we trust the teachers and they're around children a lot, 233 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:39.879 and so we believe that what they suggest is truth. 234 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:46.000 And then you went to the doctors and really, you know, 235 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:51.480 you're your child, like we all respond respond differently to drugs, alcohol, 236 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:58.720 whatever we put into our bodies, right, and I myself 237 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.399 and I've done recently this, I mean, many young people 238 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.840 have their drugs for ADHD, which, like you said, I 239 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.159 mean I think probably one in three children have. 240 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.200 Been or more adults. More adults take adderall now than children. 241 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.720 Well well, right, but my point to this is is 242 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:24.000 that we in our minds would take one. We can't 243 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:25.320 imagine taking. 244 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.519 More, Yeah, cross my mind, right, But you know. 245 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.120 Like for me, I'd drink a whole bottle, and maybe 246 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.200 for someone they would never think of drinking more than 247 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.440 half a glass. So it's hard to get in the 248 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:42.600 mind of someone that responds a certain way to a drug. 249 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:44.919 And you're also looking at a child too. The prefrontal 250 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:47.720 cortex is not formed. So this wasn't like a forty 251 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.759 year old man that you were giving adderall too. This 252 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.559 was a child that didn't understand addiction, didn't understand this 253 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.639 stuff of course. So again I think the system, at 254 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.799 some point a doctor or somebody should have said, hey, 255 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:00.600 mister Johnston, make sure that you give him one to 256 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:02.440 day instead they have give him you know, no one never, 257 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.879 no one told me even to consider not giving him 258 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.679 the bottle. I just that's what I did. I didn't 259 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.919 want to add one every day. But if someone said, hey, 260 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.879 this is something that could get him in trouble, you 261 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.440 need to give him one a day, I would have 262 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:14.840 done that. 263 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.279 I I can relate to that. 264 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:23.639 And as far as uh, someone in my family is 265 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:28.039 on bybance and they have abused by bance in certain 266 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.519 situations because they think if one is helping, then more 267 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:37.559 is going to help more. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and it's 268 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.559 right right, So it made him feel good, you know, 269 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.159 it made him, yes, And then we also mentally convince 270 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.840 ourselves like we can't do better, well, you can't do. 271 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.559 Well without it and all of the things. 272 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:58.200 And so with this loss again, an unimaginable loss. I 273 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:04.080 can't even imagine what happened for you after that. How 274 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.799 did that affect your life? I mean, I can't even 275 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.399 imagine being able to get out of bed. 276 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.159 Well I didn't for a while, but the day that 277 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.120 Seth died, I knew I had to tell my wife 278 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.080 that he died and I remember coming around the corner 279 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.240 and we were going to a golf tournament. Our middle 280 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.759 son was in a tournament that day, and my wife 281 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.720 had all the orange and black on for the high 282 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.360 school and she had a cup of coffee and talking 283 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:25.799 to him and her mom on the phone. And I 284 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.799 come around the corner in the bathroom and I'm just trembling, 285 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.679 and she can instantly see something bad happens, and I 286 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.559 just say the same thing I heard on the phone, 287 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:41.960 Seth is dead, and oh my god, yeah, she yeah, 288 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.960 Obviously she was never the same after that, and we 289 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.559 both just hit the ground and I don't remember anything. 290 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.000 And then I thought that I got to tell the 291 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.080 two brothers next. That's like the next thing I got 292 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.879 to do. And so when they got home, I had 293 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.159 to create this narrative, and so I had I had 294 00:15:58.200 --> 00:15:59.840 all day to think about what I was going to say. 295 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:01.879 Talk to my dad and he gave me some good advice. 296 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.879 My dad's amazing, and he said, just tell them the 297 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:07.639 truth and then shut your mouth, Jeff, because you like 298 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.159 to fix everything. You like to talk. You're a salesman, 299 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.080 you know you like to you know you're not going 300 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:15.440 to fix this, Jeff just tell them the truth. And 301 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.639 so I did. And when I told him, I said, 302 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.960 I have some really bad news. Your brother's dad. And 303 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:24.840 my middle son, Ian said, how do he died? Dad? Drugs? 304 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:29.279 He's fifteen? Yeah, And I said yeah, And then I 305 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.320 didn't say anything. And then something happened to me. And 306 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.480 I don't know where it came from, but I didn't 307 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.080 really want to plan on what I was going to say. 308 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.080 I wanted to be very spontaneous and be authentic and genuine, 309 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.279 you know, and be be a leader, right because that's 310 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.279 what dads try to be, you know, parents try to 311 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.159 be leaders. And I just had this feeling in me, like, 312 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:48.480 you know, this is this is go time, man, This 313 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.559 is like these dad moments you get, these husband moments, 314 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.799 these son moments you get maybe like honest to god, 315 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.159 you get like five in your lifetime where you have 316 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.639 this moment in time where the spotlight's on you and 317 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.440 the arena is full and you have to pick up 318 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.159 the microphone and you got to say something to get 319 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.960 people to just run through a fire for you. And 320 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.759 so I said, I said, boys, we have one of 321 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.519 two roads to go down now. We have one road 322 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.839 of anger, despair and hatred and we'll become alcoholics and 323 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:21.720 addicts ourselves, or we have a road of love, hope, 324 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.079 and inspiration, and this could be the single greatest moment 325 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.400 in our lives to make a difference in the lives 326 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:33.240 of others. I asked you to join me, and they did, 327 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.640 but I didn't. The next year and a half, I 328 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:38.799 stayed home and my wife and I got drunker every 329 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.279 single day. I'd been a full alcoholic since eighteen so 330 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.039 most people didn't know that. And I stayed home and 331 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.640 lied to everybody that I was doing good. And my 332 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:53.480 boys were out raising money and doing fundraisers and talking 333 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.279 about their brother and doing interviews, and you know, I'm 334 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:59.319 doing that too, But behind the scenes, my wife and 335 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.480 I are just drinking, drinking, drinking. And then, fourteen months 336 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.119 after Seth's died, my wife walked by me at ar 337 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:06.559 condo of Florida and I just looked at it and 338 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:14.680 I thought, man, this she's gone. She's defeated, like nothing left. 339 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:16.759 And then I went in the bathroom and looked in 340 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:19.079 the mirror and I said, you pathetic piece of you 341 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.599 know what you are. You don't deserve to be alive. 342 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.839 You are You are just the most lowly human that's 343 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.000 ever been born. Here's your son died, and you drink, 344 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.480 and now your wife's dying and you're drinking. And so 345 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.839 that day, on December twenty fourth of seventeen, I poured 346 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.039 my glass of sandio Vs down the drain and I've 347 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:42.079 never had a thought of alcohol nine years imming. Well, 348 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.319 that's I thought I could quit to help Prudence. I 349 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.079 really thought I could quit to help Prudence. But I 350 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.759 realized quickly how I was one hundred ninety pounds. I was, 351 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.480 you know, puffy. I was not healthy, but I noticed 352 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.279 I was getting healthier very quickly. And a week went by, 353 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:59.079 two weeks went by, but it didn't help Prudence. And 354 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.200 on June twenty nine of twenty one, one day after 355 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.440 our youngest Roman turned eighteen, to the rest of his life, 356 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.519 the day after his birthday, you know, my wife drank 357 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.480 herself to death at age forty six. She weighed eighty 358 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.559 eight pounds and was in a wheelchair when she died. 359 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.160 And so the moment I told her coming across that 360 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:23.319 bathroom hallway on October fourth of sixteen, that's when she died. 361 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.680 But she actually left the earth, you know, on June 362 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.839 twenty ninth of twenty one, and so here again, you know, 363 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.200 death knocks on my door. Hey Jeff, you know, don't 364 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.480 get too don't get too confident yet. I'm going to 365 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:35.920 take someone else you care about. What are you going 366 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:41.519 to do about it? What are you gonna do about it? Well, 367 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:44.759 And that's that's what death told me to do. And 368 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:50.240 so I made a lot of changes in my life. 369 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.000 I wrote a book, I did my podcast that I 370 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:57.400 enjoyed doing. Still, I bought an RV and drove around 371 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.440 the United States for ninety five days, twenty two thousand 372 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.839 miles and the greatest odyssey in my life with my 373 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.279 two boys. And we did thirty five presentations in like 374 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:10.799 thirty two states, trying to raise a million dollars and 375 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:12.599 give it all to give it all to charity for 376 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:16.799 nonprofits for recovery. And but I only raised forty five thousand, 377 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:18.359 and I put over three hundred thousand of my own 378 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.359 money into the project. So here I am sitting at 379 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.279 the end of the tour feeling like a failure again. 380 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.839 You know, I failed, my son failed, my wife failed 381 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.920 as an advocate. But there was just something in me 382 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.200 I can't I can't turn off that I'm just going 383 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.599 to keep failing forwards like I'm going to keep when 384 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.000 I do fall, I'm going to fall forward. I don't 385 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:37.200 want to fall backwards. 386 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:39.200 If that's something your son. 387 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.440 Said to you, yeah, he did. Roman said that to me. 388 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:43.880 At the time, I thought of the app, the bright 389 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.559 app that we have. Now he said, you know, Dad, 390 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.759 one thing about you man that I respect you, is 391 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.160 that when you fail, you fail forwards. At the time 392 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.039 he said it, he didn't really resonate with me. I 393 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.559 almost thought it was a criticism in a way. But 394 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.799 now it's I'm going on and I look at my 395 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.319 quote failures. I didn't fail set as a dad. I 396 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:06.799 did the best that I could. I didn't fail my wife, Prudence. 397 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.039 You know, they both made their own choices. I didn't 398 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:10.480 put the needle in his arm. I didn't pour the 399 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.359 alcohol down her throat. You know. I and so I 400 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:19.599 harbor some guilt and shame, but I don't think that's bad. 401 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.440