Speaker 1: A dream for many people today is finding a piece
Speaker 1: of land, often a beautiful, secluded place to call home,
Speaker 1: to get away from the ever growing, faster pace of
Speaker 1: the world. Each and every one of the people who
Speaker 1: share this dream have their own reasons for it, and
Speaker 1: the Weaver family was no different when they bought their
Speaker 1: twenty acre dream property. However, as time unfolded, this dream
Speaker 1: property would become a home of a nightmare shootout as
Speaker 1: a group of military men slowly infiltrated their lives and
Speaker 1: open fire. This is the story of Ruby Ridge.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and.
Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: The following.
Speaker 1: More mature audience listener discretion. The holiday season is over
Speaker 1: and it's officially twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: That's wild, Oh happy New Year.
Speaker 1: I had to like force that out of Nicole. I
Speaker 1: was pointing at it for a minute. What's going on?
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit I have a little bit of
Speaker 2: a cold, and so I was just like not present.
Speaker 2: I had no idea what the freak was going on.
Speaker 1: Well, when someone says it's the new year, generally it's
Speaker 1: foiled up with a happy New Year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, generally, I suppose I.
Speaker 1: Was giving you that opportunity and you just like gave
Speaker 1: me a sar. You guys won't know the awkwardness that
Speaker 1: happened because it was so awkward and blank that I'm
Speaker 1: going to be editing it. But it was just silence
Speaker 1: for like thirty seconds. Is Nicole stared at me and
Speaker 1: I silently tried to give her hints to say happy new.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, I should be in bed. It
Speaker 2: should be clearly bear with me, please, I.
Speaker 1: Should be in bed too. I've been just working my
Speaker 1: ass off today non stop.
Speaker 2: You have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've done good, But that's besides the point. You
Speaker 1: guys don't want to hear stories of working her butts off.
Speaker 2: That's no fun.
Speaker 1: No, you want to hear stories of true crime and
Speaker 1: stories of people being assholes to people, I guess.
Speaker 2: Because other people, because they suck to humanity.
Speaker 1: To humanity. Yeah, and some people are getting a little
Speaker 1: extra of those stories. Are our patrons so over on
Speaker 1: Patreon this week we had Julianne I'm sorry, Julian Santos
Speaker 1: and Michelle Smith both sign up. They're getting extra episodes
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, all that good stuff over around Patreon.
Speaker 1: Do you want to sign up? Link is down below.
Speaker 1: If you don't, Hey, that's totally cool. You're here. That's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much. And do you want
Speaker 2: to just drop what episode we just dropped for our patrons?
Speaker 1: I certainly can. It was the murder of Kimberly Kates.
Speaker 2: It's really disturbing.
Speaker 1: It's a doozy. That one's a doozy. Yeah, to be fair,
Speaker 1: Today's episode here that you're about to listen to as
Speaker 1: a doozy too, but just in a whole other sense.
Speaker 1: That one was just murderous and what the fuck? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this one's more like conspiracy sort of situation. Okay,
Speaker 1: but it's still trust me, this is a wild ride
Speaker 1: this one today too. But before we get into that,
Speaker 1: we still have a bunch of other stuff that we
Speaker 1: got to talk about, particularly some of the stuff going
Speaker 1: on over in our YouTube because Wicked and Grim will
Speaker 1: soon be in video form over on our YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: so you will be able to not only listen to
Speaker 1: our podcast every Tuesday, but in the days following it,
Speaker 1: we will then upload a video form of it so
Speaker 1: you can watch us behind the scenes in our tiny
Speaker 1: home do it as well.
Speaker 2: Our reactions to what is going on, Yeah, which is
Speaker 2: kind of cool but also kind of sad because, to
Speaker 2: be honest, half the time when we're recording, I literally
Speaker 2: look like I am a homeless person, so do I
Speaker 2: So I feel like I have to at least like
Speaker 2: put a bra on and stuff.
Speaker 1: Nah, you're good, They're good. I don't think people care
Speaker 1: what we look like. They just want to, you know,
Speaker 1: enjoy the part of being there because I know, if
Speaker 1: I'm being honest, I think part of our podcast is like,
Speaker 1: we like you guys to feel like you're sitting here
Speaker 1: having a drink, talking or chatting with us. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: if we put it in video form I think it's
Speaker 1: going to add to that experience even more.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't say I was gonna get all dulled up.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna put up brall on.
Speaker 1: So, you know, isn't that getting dulled up. We also
Speaker 1: had some pretty cool stuff going over on YouTube. In
Speaker 1: preparation for starting to post, we did a vlogness, which
Speaker 1: we mentioned a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we I think we ended up getting fourteen
Speaker 2: or so videos we wanted to get like the whole month,
Speaker 2: But I mean it was still a win because We
Speaker 2: went fourteen more videos than we usually do in a.
Speaker 1: Month exactly, so that's a win. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1: You should go check those videos out.
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 1: All you have to do is look up a Wicked Life.
Speaker 1: That's where we'll be uploading everything. If you don't want
Speaker 1: to look it up, hey, link is in the description
Speaker 1: of this podcast right here.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: With all of that being said, are you ready? I'm
Speaker 1: ready for the Ruby Ridge Incident?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think you are.
Speaker 2: That was a song. I resisted every urge to start.
Speaker 1: Singing, what What's what?
Speaker 2: I don't think you're ready for this?
Speaker 1: Oh God, I don't think you're ready. Fold this My
Speaker 1: body too delicious, your babe? Was that the song you're
Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah, I don't think you are ready for this.
Speaker 1: But I will forewarn everyone. This is a two parter.
Speaker 1: So this is the first part to the Ruby Ridge
Speaker 1: Incident because there is a whole slew if honestly, if
Speaker 1: we did like a serious deep dive on this, we
Speaker 1: could probably have like a five six seven part serials.
Speaker 1: It is a massive thing, really, because there's allegations left,
Speaker 1: right and center. He said, she said this isn't true,
Speaker 1: but this is like, it's wow, it is a wild
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. A lot of it is like circumstantial or
Speaker 1: it's allegations and there's no real evidence for it. So
Speaker 1: it's just, yeah, I'm trying to stick to all the
Speaker 1: facts on this one. There are some situations where we
Speaker 1: have to go with like the allegation stuff for what
Speaker 1: certain people claimed how it happened, because we just have
Speaker 1: no other way to go, so we just kind of
Speaker 1: go with the most accepted route of that story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fair, but we are sticking with as much of
Speaker 1: the facts as we can in this. So with all
Speaker 1: of that, you ready for it, I'm ready, Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: let's start the Ruby Ridge incident.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge is a place that is situated in the
Speaker 1: south southernmost section of a group of ridges extending east
Speaker 1: of the Bottleneck Slash Roman Nose Mountain Range towards the
Speaker 1: Cootney River. Caribou Ridge lies to the north, with the
Speaker 1: Ruby Creek draining the area between them. Now, the term
Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge was coined by the press to describe the
Speaker 1: events that transpired on the property situated on Caribou Ridge
Speaker 1: in the Boundary County of Idaho. This location is approximately
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, sorry, thirty miles south of the Canadian border
Speaker 1: of British Columbia.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not gonna lie, but I thought Ruby Ridge
Speaker 2: was a person.
Speaker 1: Noe, Ruby Ridge is a location. Okay, yeah, most certainly
Speaker 1: a location. Now, this story encompasses an individual by the
Speaker 1: name of Randy Weaver. Now. Randy was born in Velliska,
Speaker 1: Ohio in nineteen forty eight, and he had a unique
Speaker 1: life journey. After graduating high school in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: he initially enrolled in community college and met his future wife,
Speaker 1: Vicki Jordison, despite successfully completing a Green Beret training, which
Speaker 1: is a division of a particular badass special forces in
Speaker 1: the United States Military in preparation for deployment in Vietnam. So, like,
Speaker 1: just to clarify, Green Berets are like some of the
Speaker 1: most badass special forces like in the world. Like they
Speaker 1: are badass. Like that's all I can say to describe them,
Speaker 1: because they're fucking badass. Like these are the kind of
Speaker 1: guys that like sneak up on dudes in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night and like slice them open and keep
Speaker 1: going on with like not even the thought, like the mission.
Speaker 2: So really like laser focus.
Speaker 1: Like their machines. So he successfully completed that Green Beret
Speaker 1: training and Randy was stationed in Fort Bragg, North Carolina,
Speaker 1: and was discharged in nineteen seventy one without ever seeing combat. Okay, yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: in that same year as his discharge, Randy married the
Speaker 1: love of his life, Vicki, and the couple settled in
Speaker 1: Cedar Falls, Iowa. Due to financial constraints, Randy dropped out
Speaker 1: of Northern Iowa University and the couple worked various odd
Speaker 1: jobs to make ends meet, which I think is rather relatable,
Speaker 1: especially in today's society and all the increase in prices
Speaker 1: this past year or two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cost of living is outrageous.
Speaker 1: It's wild. Now. Throughout their life, Randy and Vicki Weaver
Speaker 1: maintained a close relationship with their spiritual beliefs, referring to
Speaker 1: God as yahweah or yawe. I'm not sure how you
Speaker 1: pronounce that exactly. I'm assuming maybe yahwe but either way,
Speaker 1: and studying the Bible nightly. In the nineteen seventies, influenced
Speaker 1: by the Arab Israeli War, they were beginning to become
Speaker 1: convinced that a biblical doomsday and prophecies were unfolding, and
Speaker 1: soon the end of the world would be coming.
Speaker 2: Oh that's like terrifying, though.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine actually thinking, for one reason or another,
Speaker 1: whether it's religious beliefs or just personal beliefs, that the
Speaker 1: end of the world is legitimately coming.
Speaker 2: That you've convinced yourself that. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 2: there's enough stresses in the world.
Speaker 1: I would rather live in ignorance where I don't see
Speaker 1: it coming, and.
Speaker 2: It's just like over I agree.
Speaker 1: Actually, at least that way I can just I don't know,
Speaker 1: as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss right, So yeah, now,
Speaker 1: Vicki actually even shared a reoccurring dream with Randy, one
Speaker 1: where she had been envisioning a mountaintop retreat where their
Speaker 1: family would be safe and the impending evil of the apocalypse. Now.
Speaker 1: This dream and belief led the Weavers to plan for
Speaker 1: their future, with Randy acquiring weapons they deemed necessary for
Speaker 1: family protection during the apocalypse or armageddon. Right in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty two, the Weavers welcomed their third child, Rachel, and
Speaker 1: the following year they sold their possessions and home and
Speaker 1: began seeking guidance from the Amish community on living without electricity.
Speaker 1: They then purchased twenty acres of land on the now
Speaker 1: known Ruby Ridge area of northern Idaho and built a
Speaker 1: rudimentary cabin without electricity or running water. Here they began
Speaker 1: their life in the wilds of the mountain, and Vicki
Speaker 1: homeschooled their children, a practice that was actually a violation
Speaker 1: of law in Idaho.
Speaker 2: Oh really, Okay.
Speaker 1: So that they're like going full out into the wild
Speaker 1: on top of this like mountainous ridge and just they're
Speaker 1: doing it, huh.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, the thought of living without like electricity
Speaker 2: and water. I mean I get electricity in a sense,
Speaker 2: but water, like, gosh, that seems so difficult.
Speaker 1: That's a life necessity. You need that. Yeah, without water,
Speaker 1: you're dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I can last probably twice as long without
Speaker 1: or sorry without electricity than water. If I'm dead within
Speaker 1: ten days with electricity, it's gonna be twenty days without
Speaker 1: internet before I die.
Speaker 2: Oh so you're sure about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe eighteen sixteen somewhere in there. I need the Internet.
Speaker 1: I love me some memes, you sure do. Plus, how
Speaker 1: would we upload a podcast?
Speaker 2: I know that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, over time, the Weavers integrated themselves into the
Speaker 1: local community as well, it's in the surrounding area, even
Speaker 1: taking in a troubled teenager into their home by the
Speaker 1: name of Kevin Harris.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's nice.
Speaker 1: Life in their home was mostly smooth for the Weavers,
Speaker 1: but perfection took a hit in nineteen eighty four when
Speaker 1: Randy Weaver and his neighbor Terry Kinnison found themselves in
Speaker 1: a dispute over three thousand, eight three thousand dollars land deal. Now,
Speaker 1: after losing the subsequent lawsuit, Terry was ordered to pay
Speaker 1: the Weavers an additional twenty one hundred dollars in court
Speaker 1: costs and damages, which of course soured the relationship at
Speaker 1: least even further.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess, especially back then, that's a big
Speaker 2: chunk of money.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is eighty four. Yeah, so we're talking.
Speaker 1: He owed them a total of five thousand, one hundred dollars. Okay,
Speaker 1: I imagine that's probably somewhere in the vicinity of twenty
Speaker 1: to thirty grand or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that that's significant for sure. Now, in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of this math of this dispute, Terry allegedly took
Speaker 1: revenge on writing letters to the FBC or the FBI,
Speaker 1: the Secret Service, and the county sheriff accusing Randy Weaver
Speaker 1: of threatening to kill Pope John Paul the Second, oh
Speaker 1: President Ronald Reagan, and Idaho Governor John V.
Speaker 2: Evans seriously just making up this shit allegedly, Okay, okay, allegedly,
Speaker 2: but still that's some that's some allegations right there.
Speaker 1: Definitely, and these are serious allegations that would prompt some
Speaker 1: serious response.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much.
Speaker 1: So. Now this led to an investigation launched by the
Speaker 1: FBI and the Secret Service in January of nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: five into the claims of threats against these officials. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to go on the record here of my
Speaker 1: own opinion saying that the FBI and Secret Service are
Speaker 1: launching an investigation into the claims of these threats. Clearly,
Speaker 1: these claims and threats existed, Yeah, for one reason or another, however,
Speaker 1: they existed. These claims that he was threatening these individuals
Speaker 1: are real.
Speaker 2: But I mean, gosh, I mean, it's not really something
Speaker 2: they can let go, I suppose. But then also that's
Speaker 2: kind of scary that someone can just I don't know,
Speaker 2: slander you like that kind of you know.
Speaker 1: Well, slander only goes so far too right. And I
Speaker 1: mean we see that today on the internet cancel culture
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. There's people out there who like
Speaker 1: try to cancel in individuals who it's like they didn't
Speaker 1: actually do anything. You need some fucking evidence to do
Speaker 1: some shit, totally. It's a matter of if you jump
Speaker 1: on the bandwagon and make the assumptions, you need the facts.
Speaker 1: And that's what the FBI and Secret Services were doing.
Speaker 1: They were looking in to see if there was some
Speaker 1: facts to back it up.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, on February twelfth that same year, Randy and his
Speaker 1: wife underwent interviews with two FBI agents, two Secret Service agents,
Speaker 1: and a Boundary County sheriff and his chief investigator. The
Speaker 1: Secret Service had been informed that Randy was also associated
Speaker 1: with Aryan Nations, which was a white supremacist terrorist organization
Speaker 1: and had substantial weapons cached at a residents and or property.
Speaker 1: Randy denied these allegations and no charges were filed by
Speaker 1: the government. Now, while the investigation was going on, it
Speaker 1: was revealed that the Weavers had in fact actually attended
Speaker 1: the Aryan Nations meeting at Hate Lake. Randy clarified this
Speaker 1: though he clarified that he and his associate, Frank Kumnik,
Speaker 1: were not members, but acknowledged that Frank had an affiliation
Speaker 1: with other reported similar groups like the Covenant, the Sword
Speaker 1: and the Arm and the Lord. So he's associated with
Speaker 1: these groups by proxy sort of thing, not actually being
Speaker 1: within them, okay, but he did in fact attend meetings,
Speaker 1: so he's got some friends and associates within these groups. So,
Speaker 1: in a proactive move, the Weavers actually filed a legal
Speaker 1: affid David with the County Courtroom on February twenty eighth,
Speaker 1: alleging that their personal enemies were plotting to incite the
Speaker 1: FBI into attacking and killing their family. Basically, what that
Speaker 1: means is they went to the court and filed a
Speaker 1: legal document with these statements saying that these people have
Speaker 1: the these people trying to do this thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's kind of on record, it's.
Speaker 1: Recorded, documented, can be used in court evidence if something occurs.
Speaker 1: It's a legal thing that is filed away. So right now,
Speaker 1: I mean, I have to have reason who I can't
Speaker 1: just randomly do it. But right now, if I go
Speaker 1: to the court and say my wife is trying to
Speaker 1: kill me, I think she's trying to do this this,
Speaker 1: And then a week or a month later, I die
Speaker 1: mysteriously and they think it's you. They can use that.
Speaker 1: It's evidence against you in court.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's good that they did this.
Speaker 1: Then, oh definitely yeah. Now, later on May sixth, the
Speaker 1: Weavers also sent a letter a letter to President Reagan
Speaker 1: suggesting that their adversaries might have sent him a threatening
Speaker 1: letter under a forged signature, although no evidence of such
Speaker 1: a letter ever emerged. Now to worse than the view
Speaker 1: of the Weavers on the public and the government view.
Speaker 1: In the late nineteen eighties, media coverage began highlighting militia
Speaker 1: groups in the Northwest. The stories often featured footage of
Speaker 1: families and camouflage engaging in military style drills with weapons,
Speaker 1: and the media portrayed these groups as radical right wing
Speaker 1: extremists seeking to overthrow the government, eliciting fear and anger
Speaker 1: from the public and prompting calls for congressional action. Now,
Speaker 1: whether or not true, whether anyone believed it or not,
Speaker 1: it certainly would have planted a bit of a seed
Speaker 1: in the mind of some and could have played a
Speaker 1: small part in things to come.
Speaker 2: H Okay, this I think you said mentioned this case
Speaker 2: is quite different. It makes you really they have to
Speaker 2: use your nogain.
Speaker 1: It's the rabbit holes after rabbit after rabbit holes on
Speaker 1: this and you can go for days on it. It's
Speaker 1: a major sort of conspiracy type thing with a lot
Speaker 1: that's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my gears are turning. Just listen in here.
Speaker 1: So where is your head right now in this?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't even know if you can ask
Speaker 2: me that.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fair enough, fair enough, I mean, well, we'll
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, I think we need I need to hear
Speaker 2: a bit more once.
Speaker 1: We're at the end of this episode. Then maybe we'll
Speaker 1: kind of talk on our thoughts and positions and see
Speaker 1: where we are. So the next up, the involvement of
Speaker 1: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms also known and
Speaker 1: how it referred to him from here on out ATF
Speaker 1: marked a crucial phase in this narrative. So the FBI
Speaker 1: and the ATF initiated operations to infiltrate militia groups, assess
Speaker 1: potential threats, and apprehend individuals engaged in illegal activities. So
Speaker 1: groups such as what Randy had mentioned earlier, groups that
Speaker 1: he had ties to groups that they suspected him to
Speaker 1: be involved in. Right now, Agent Herb Burley, I think
Speaker 1: that is how you say his name. Agent Herb Burley,
Speaker 1: operating as underco as Keith Fadely, established contact with Randy
Speaker 1: Weaver and cultivated a friendship under his new guys. Now,
Speaker 1: despite Randy not being a member of the targeted groups,
Speaker 1: the agent singled him out due to his respected the
Speaker 1: respect he commanded within his lifestyle and his connections. So
Speaker 1: over time, Randy actually developed trust with his undercover we'll
Speaker 1: call him Kenneth, viewing him as a friend and someone
Speaker 1: he could actually trust, to say the least. The agent
Speaker 1: was certainly doing his job well and seeing the opportunity,
Speaker 1: he finally asked if Randy could sell him some shotguns
Speaker 1: with illegal modifications. He wanted two sought off shotguns to
Speaker 1: be specific.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yes, So this is all he's baiting them as.
Speaker 2: What he's doing. It's kind of sad really, because here
Speaker 2: he thinks he's a new little bestie and really it's
Speaker 2: not at all.
Speaker 1: I think I don't. I think it's bullshit. How authorities
Speaker 1: can do that, can bake you into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they have a relationship, and like, I mean,
Speaker 2: the friend is probably being like telling him why he
Speaker 2: needs these or why he feels he needs these, and
Speaker 2: he's gonna want to help his friend. That's what you do,
Speaker 2: you help your friends out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think there's a moral thing going on here,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just don't think it's fair
Speaker 1: that authorities do that. And I'm going to read a
Speaker 1: little bit more here before I really delve into why
Speaker 1: I think that. But anyways, Randy initially resisted and didn't
Speaker 1: want to sell anything like that to him.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: However, Randy eventually succumbed to the persistent requests from his friend,
Speaker 1: who claimed to be in dire need of money, and
Speaker 1: subsequently he sold him the two sought off shotguns.
Speaker 2: Shit.
Speaker 1: So Randy didn't want to sell them to.
Speaker 2: No, he didn't at all.
Speaker 1: He needed money, Yeah, his friend needed money. And I'm
Speaker 1: not too sure exactly what the situation he's saying is
Speaker 1: going to do. Maybe rob a bank, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But Randy went has these two very legal shotguns and
Speaker 1: sawed them off because his friend wanted him that way,
Speaker 1: and then sold them to him.
Speaker 2: Yikes. So I think that's almost just setting someone.
Speaker 1: Off that is. I think that's baiting totally. I think
Speaker 1: an individual who's undercovered like that could be a part
Speaker 1: of something. Maybe he's trying to get this guy for
Speaker 1: selling illegal guns. If he can get him to legitimately
Speaker 1: sell a legal firearm to someone else and be there
Speaker 1: for it or have evidence of it, I totally think
Speaker 1: that's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean he had to like be very persuasive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe Randy would never have sold any illegal firearms
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for the officer in the first place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe the officer is what enlisted him
Speaker 1: to do an illegal activity in the first place, and
Speaker 1: he never had otherwise. We don't know that.
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, which love that at all.
Speaker 1: I think is greasy. I think it's baiting, and I
Speaker 1: think should be illegal.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, I agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, as a result, criminal charges were filed against
Speaker 1: Randy Weaver eight months after the gun transaction in October
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty nine. However, Randy was presented with a
Speaker 1: deal if he became an informant and assisted in infiltrating
Speaker 1: these groups, the charges would be dropped.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you almost wonder if that was just their
Speaker 2: plan altogether.
Speaker 1: Then, Oh, I guarantee it was. They're essentially blackmail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Okay, this just seems so dirty.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, despite facing the prospect of imprisonment, Randy refused
Speaker 1: to betray someone that he considered a friend and flat
Speaker 1: out declined the offer.
Speaker 2: Huh that's uh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Hey, to me, that shows Randy has better morals than
Speaker 1: the FBI.
Speaker 2: No kidding, It really shows as true colors and this character.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that Randy's a perfect individual,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I mean, he has affiliates with
Speaker 1: anti Semitic groups. It's questionable at best, But at least
Speaker 1: he's willing to stick up for a friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he totally is.
Speaker 1: Even went his own necks on the.
Speaker 2: Line, and even when he was portrayed by a so
Speaker 2: called friend. Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, six months pass before a warrant was issued
Speaker 1: for Randy's arrest on the gun charges, but federal agents
Speaker 1: hesitated to apprehend him at his home, deeming he was
Speaker 1: too risky due to the families perceived readiness to resist.
Speaker 1: And I mean he had firearms apparently, as far as
Speaker 1: the FBI knew, on his property. Because he's selling legal
Speaker 1: firearms and saw off shotguns. Remember right now, I mean
Speaker 1: to be fair, he does have firearms at his property.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he's going to just
Speaker 2: like start shooting people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, they instead began to try and get creative
Speaker 1: as means to once again ensnare Randy. So what they
Speaker 1: did they had agents pose as stranded motorists and when
Speaker 1: they set up a bait on the side of the
Speaker 1: road where Randy would be driving by, they had him
Speaker 1: stop and try and assist them because they're stranded motorists, right,
Speaker 1: they're stranded, their vehicles broke down sort of thing. When
Speaker 1: he stopped, they arrested them.
Speaker 2: That seems so bizarre. I don't know, this just seems
Speaker 2: so weirdless that one.
Speaker 1: To me doesn't seem like entrapment, because it's it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're wanted. This is just a means to get you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have no problem with that one person.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I don't necessarily a problem with it, but
Speaker 2: it just seems like it's so weird like that they're
Speaker 2: just like it's like they're afraid of him, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh, they definitely are. They're afraid of what could happen.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, not only because of what he could do,
Speaker 1: but they he's got kids and stuff too, right at
Speaker 1: his home. So I mean, if they're going to open fire,
Speaker 1: he opened fire. Maybe he's one as a hostage, or
Speaker 1: who knows what happens, maybe they mistake him for one
Speaker 1: of his kids and shoot a kid. Like there could
Speaker 1: be innocent lives that play here. Yeah, so I can
Speaker 1: totally understand that. So Randy went and appeared before a
Speaker 1: judge who found probable cause for a trial and released
Speaker 1: him on a few conditions you know, parole right, including
Speaker 1: returning to court for the trial. However, the judge misled
Speaker 1: Randy by threatening false claims that he would have to
Speaker 1: surrender his home, land en truck if he was convicted
Speaker 1: in court. So it's like, yeah, you got to come
Speaker 1: back for your trial, and just so you know, if
Speaker 1: you're convicted, you're losing your property, everything's gone.
Speaker 2: So then his family is just like fuck fucked.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The trial was initially set for February nineteenth, on nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one, but Randy's parole officer mistakenly told him the
Speaker 1: trial instead was scheduled for March twentieth of nineteen ninety one.
Speaker 1: As a result, Randy Weaver failed to appear on the
Speaker 1: appointed court date, marking him as a fugitive in the
Speaker 1: eye of the United States Marshall Service or USMS, who
Speaker 1: was now responsible for arresting in him in now Yes,
Speaker 1: he's a fugitive who did not show up for his
Speaker 1: court date when he was told otherwise.
Speaker 2: Does I feel like this guy has like the worst
Speaker 2: of luck?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I think so too, definitely. So, I mean
Speaker 1: that's kind of the situation he's in, unfortunately, but he's.
Speaker 2: To live his life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just like, I'm going to buy twenty acres
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere and just do my own
Speaker 1: business and then people are like, we're your business now, bitch,
Speaker 1: like just sticking their nose in that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1: So, despite being considered a fugitive, Randy now remain hold
Speaker 1: up in his remote home, adamantly declaring his intent to
Speaker 1: resist any attempt for them to apprehend him or remove him. Forcibly, see,
Speaker 1: Randy was known for his intense distrust in the government,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we can understand why, especially at this point,
Speaker 1: and the suspicions were compounding over time. This may have
Speaker 1: played a role in his reluctance to appear for another
Speaker 1: trial as he grew increasingly suspicious of the government and
Speaker 1: his lawyer and any other law enforcement that was involved
Speaker 1: in this whatsoever. He's basically thinking that they're trying to
Speaker 1: conspire against him, which I mean, he has every right
Speaker 1: to think. So he was set up by them originally.
Speaker 1: He was then blackmailed by them and turned them down.
Speaker 1: Then he went to court and was threatened by the judge,
Speaker 1: and then also his court date was told to him wrong,
Speaker 1: and then he was a fugitive because he didn't show
Speaker 1: up to the court date that he was told was
Speaker 1: a different date. Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's really easy to look at that and think
Speaker 1: it's a conspiracy.
Speaker 2: You would really be questioning a lot of things, like
Speaker 2: I don't blame that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was convinced that attending the trial would
Speaker 1: guarantee him we're not sorry, guarantee fair judgment. Specifically, he
Speaker 1: was now under the impression for the judge like, hey,
Speaker 1: losing his property, his wife can be homeless, kids might
Speaker 1: be taken away, whatever. And despite eighteen months passing with
Speaker 1: Randy still sitting in his home without government intervention. The
Speaker 1: ATF had initiated surveillance shortly after his court missed date.
Speaker 1: So what this meant They had employed video cameras, aerial photography,
Speaker 1: and even sophisticated audio system throughout Weaver's property, including speakers
Speaker 1: under his kitchen floor, to spy on him at all
Speaker 1: times and whenever they wanted. How how what do you mean? Hell?
Speaker 2: How do they do this?
Speaker 1: It's the government? Okay, I'm pretty sure they got bugs
Speaker 1: in everything right now. They track us in our phones
Speaker 1: and stuff at all times. You can't tell me that
Speaker 1: we're not tracked on our phones. Google tracks us. How
Speaker 1: can the government not be? If they want to know
Speaker 1: where we are, they can pay us in an instant. Cool, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I told you this whole conspiracy stuff here. No shit,
Speaker 1: I'm not sitting here saying that the FBI is watching
Speaker 1: us every second of the day. But if they want
Speaker 1: to know where we are and what they're doing, I
Speaker 1: guarantee they can fucking know. Probably yep, Alexa will spill
Speaker 1: her guts and heartbeats.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I know. Hey.
Speaker 1: So that's basically what they had. They had, like cameras,
Speaker 1: audio equipment, all this surveilling his property available to them
Speaker 1: whenever they needed. The marshals contemplated and discarded several plans
Speaker 1: to try and arrest Randy Weaver. They have all this
Speaker 1: equipment watching them, listening, and they're trying to use it
Speaker 1: to their advantage to figure out how they can get them. Now,
Speaker 1: a lot of their ideas range from cutting the water
Speaker 1: line that they had because hey, as we already talked, yeah,
Speaker 1: water's pretty important, right.
Speaker 2: Is this legal? May I just ask? Or doesn't matter?
Speaker 2: It's the government.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it's the government. But also that's a
Speaker 1: lot of the reasons why they're not doing some of
Speaker 1: these things. One of the reasons that they one of
Speaker 1: the things they wanted to do they wanted to capture
Speaker 1: his daughter, Sarah. Yeah, so listen to this, Sarah, the
Speaker 1: eldest daughter. Their plan was during her menstrual cycle because
Speaker 1: they had a designated quote birthing shed. Now, this is
Speaker 1: a whole other thing. I'm not going to get too
Speaker 1: into it, but this is where one of the family
Speaker 1: members who when they were experiencing their period, would go
Speaker 1: to the shed during the course of the period. Basically
Speaker 1: because of extreme beliefs. It wasn't meant as a form
Speaker 1: of punishment as far as I can read, it was
Speaker 1: more just for isolation purposes. But that's besides the point.
Speaker 1: Let's just leave it at that. When they had their
Speaker 1: period the time of the month, they would go in
Speaker 1: this shed for the duration, then come back in the
Speaker 1: house afterwards. So when she was on her when she
Speaker 1: was menstruating, they're like, she's going to be in the shed,
Speaker 1: and the objective is to apprehend one of the children.
Speaker 1: When they were bringing Sarah some food, compelling Randy to
Speaker 1: finally surrender, right, This was the grand plan. However, they
Speaker 1: don't have an arrest warrant for Sarah. That's just straight
Speaker 1: up kidnapping, no kidding, which is yea, that crime is
Speaker 1: harsher than selling an illegal firearm. No kidding, you're kidnapping
Speaker 1: a human.
Speaker 2: A kid, Yeah, away from the family.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think it's pretty clear why they didn't
Speaker 1: go through with that plan. But eventually the ATF formulated
Speaker 1: a reconnaissance mission plan with agents dressing in full combat
Speaker 1: gear to close in on the Weaver's property. Now, I
Speaker 1: feel it's important to mention that all the authorities were
Speaker 1: aware of something here. The marshals observed that Randy and
Speaker 1: his family responded to vehicles and other visitors by taking
Speaker 1: up armed positions with guns around the cabin until the
Speaker 1: visitors were recognized and the situation was deemed safe.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, for some reason, when you just announced that,
Speaker 2: I visualized us doing something like that, which is really wow.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because we will think that people are
Speaker 2: just crazy from doing this podcast. Right, So I'm oh,
Speaker 2: someone's coming down the driveway, get my gun. Well, I
Speaker 2: mean I've always been one of those people. Though. If
Speaker 2: I don't know if someone's coming, they knock on the door,
Speaker 2: I don't open the fucking door.
Speaker 1: There's no way I can respect that. Though. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of messed up shit going on in this world,
Speaker 1: and if someone figures out that you're home alone or
Speaker 1: a situation like that, you can get taken advantage of
Speaker 1: a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean people lots of times like there's people
Speaker 2: that pose to the other individuals. He's even like law enforcement, right,
Speaker 2: and yeah, so it's just scary. Yeah, but that is
Speaker 2: next level.
Speaker 1: It definitely is. But and the authorities were aware of this, Okay,
Speaker 1: they witnessed it firsthand. I'm sure that this happened to
Speaker 1: them as they're coming up to the property to discuss things,
Speaker 1: because I guarantee like this, there was certain situations where
Speaker 1: they're coming up and they're talking verbally like they're trying
Speaker 1: to work things out. I guarantee it. Time and time again.
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, you what you have a warned out
Speaker 1: your free rest? Can you come with us? It's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not fucking leaving the cabin right, Okay, we're gonna go.
Speaker 1: You've got to come in. No, I'm not leaving. So
Speaker 1: and then they're trying to figure out ways still talking
Speaker 1: to them. I mean, like a lot of times going by. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's certainly going to be conversations one way or another.
Speaker 2: You have to wonder how many guests they ended up
Speaker 2: having over friends and stuff, you know. Jeez, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think I would ever go visit the Weavers, no kidding.
Speaker 1: So anyways, they knew that they acted this way. They
Speaker 1: knew the Weavers were armed and they were willing to
Speaker 1: defend themselves. This was not new information. Now. In August
Speaker 1: twenty first, nineteen ninety two, six marshals were sent to
Speaker 1: scout the area to determine suitable places away from the
Speaker 1: cabin to try and apprehend and arrest Randy. The marshals
Speaker 1: were dressed in full military camouflage gilly suits. Do you
Speaker 1: know what gilly suit is? I do, actually, Okay, So
Speaker 1: if anyone out there doesn't know what a gilly suit is,
Speaker 1: it's when those guys addressed head to toe in like
Speaker 1: that Chewbacca looking like forest gear. They look like they're
Speaker 1: a bush just sitting there. That's what they were wearing,
Speaker 1: these full gilly suits. They were equipped with night vision
Speaker 1: goggles and M sixteen rifles, full fledged military gear.
Speaker 2: They meant business.
Speaker 1: They meant business. They were prepped. Now, at one point,
Speaker 1: one of the marshals, as they were encroaching in the cabin,
Speaker 1: threw two rocks at the cabin to test the dog's
Speaker 1: the family dog's reaction. Now, the action actually provoked the dog.
Speaker 1: It also got Kevin Harris and the fourteen year old son,
Speaker 1: Samuel or Sammy to emerge and follow the dog, whose
Speaker 1: name was Striker. Now the dog was Striker and was
Speaker 1: a yellow Labrador retriever. So they followed the dog to
Speaker 1: investigate what's going on. Now, each boy had a rifle
Speaker 1: in hand, and they were hoping that the dog had
Speaker 1: noticed a game animal outside and that they intended to
Speaker 1: do a bit of hunting. This is a you know,
Speaker 1: rural area with living off the land type family and property.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's what they do, is they hunt
Speaker 1: for a lot of food. Right, So that's what they're doing,
Speaker 1: going outside, gonna do a bit of hunting. However, what
Speaker 1: waited outside their home was not an animal, and the
Speaker 1: ensuing moments all hell would break loose and that's where
Speaker 1: we're ending today's episode.
Speaker 2: Ye're serious, I'm serious? Okay, who the fuck was going outside?
Speaker 2: Two kids? Right?
Speaker 1: Yes? So the one the one troubled kid who was
Speaker 1: taken in by the family. Okay, so Kevin Harris was
Speaker 1: that one? And the fourteen year old son Sammy aka
Speaker 1: or sorry Samuel aka Sammy and their dog and their dog, Striker,
Speaker 1: who is a yellow Labrador retriever.
Speaker 2: Huh Okay, I cannot envision this ending.
Speaker 1: Well, no, how do you think it's gonna add? What's
Speaker 1: your whole thought process on this so far?
Speaker 2: Well? One question I have is like, was were these
Speaker 2: I don't know what we're calling it, but these people
Speaker 2: in gilly suits were at that moment? Were they were
Speaker 2: they just testing or were they literally ready to go,
Speaker 2: like they were ready to go.
Speaker 1: Oh, they're ready to go. They're ready to go if
Speaker 1: they need to.
Speaker 2: Were they intending at that moment not really to go
Speaker 2: to be arresting Randy though.
Speaker 1: No, the entire purpose of this was it was a reconnaissance.
Speaker 2: Mission, Okay, because I'm just curious if they thought that
Speaker 2: through with the whole rock thing and stuff like this.
Speaker 2: I don't know this, I just can't. This isn't good.
Speaker 1: No, So, the entire idea is they're surveilling the property,
Speaker 1: both with video audio and aerial photography and stuff. Right now,
Speaker 1: they're putting guys in the ground, They're going around the property.
Speaker 1: They're surveilling, trying to get information on not only the property,
Speaker 1: but the cabin itself, the family itself. What they're they're doing,
Speaker 1: they're trying to get anything they can to say, Hey,
Speaker 1: here's an opportunity for us to actually arrest this guy.
Speaker 1: So while they're on the property, one of the reconnaissance
Speaker 1: thing that this guy's doing is like, hey, what's the
Speaker 1: dog's reactions.
Speaker 2: Let's see, Well, I think that the dog is easily
Speaker 2: going to be able to sniff them out. And then
Speaker 2: these kids who are seemingly living a pretty sheltered life really,
Speaker 2: and have you know they're the way of their dad
Speaker 2: kind of ingrained grained on them. It's so shit like eh.
Speaker 1: Well, as I said, all hell does break loose, and yeah,
Speaker 1: this is kind of a recipe for disaster in this moment,
Speaker 1: especially with all the things that have built up to this,
Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure, like you said, their dad's wig
Speaker 1: is ingrained in them. Not only is their dad's way
Speaker 1: ingrained in them, but they're witnessing first hand these military
Speaker 1: men probably as far as they're absuming, harassing their family,
Speaker 1: harassing their dad. Like I said, I guarantee these guys
Speaker 1: are driving up to the front door at least have conversations, right.
Speaker 2: And now they're there. Yeah, I mean anyone would be
Speaker 2: really alarmed over that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or even put it this way, take that all
Speaker 1: out of perspective, put yourself in the shoes of these kids.
Speaker 1: You know nothing of the military, You know nothing of
Speaker 1: your dad's perspective of life, you know nothing, Nothing on
Speaker 1: him is ingrained in you. It's just you on your
Speaker 1: property outside to go, I don't know, shoot a rabbit
Speaker 1: for dinner with your dog, and you see military men
Speaker 1: crawling through the bush on your property. How do you
Speaker 1: think that's going to go?
Speaker 2: Well, I know, and you're not even certain that it
Speaker 2: could be military.
Speaker 1: You don't, You don't know. You just see camouflage, dudes,
Speaker 1: rifles crawling through your property.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't even know what I would do,
Speaker 2: but I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1: But as of this point, though these kids do not
Speaker 1: see them, the dog does not see them. They however,
Speaker 1: do see these kids and the dog, and they are
Speaker 1: very well aware. And you will cover the rest of
Speaker 1: what happens in the next episode in part two next time.
Speaker 1: So Nichole is in shock and I here, I know.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I am my brain. Like I said, it's it's
Speaker 2: going a mile a minute right now. This is a
Speaker 2: very fact that I have to wait a week is
Speaker 2: such a piss off.
Speaker 1: R Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. That's how it goes sometimes.
Speaker 2: It's the name of the game.
Speaker 1: It is the name of the game. Sorry for making
Speaker 1: you guys wait a week if you are one of
Speaker 1: those people, because I know some of you out there
Speaker 1: actually wait a week to listen to this episode, so
Speaker 1: you can listen to both episodes back to back. You're
Speaker 1: not waiting a week. The episode's already out and you're
Speaker 1: listening to it in about thirty seconds time. If you
Speaker 1: are waiting a week, I'm sorry, but trust me, it's
Speaker 1: worth the wait. Thank you for being here. If you
Speaker 1: want to check out any of our links below, like
Speaker 1: our YouTube where you will be able to soon watch
Speaker 1: Wicked and Grim actually on video behind the scenes link
Speaker 1: is for our YouTube down below. We do some blog
Speaker 1: stuff there as well. We have Facebook, we have Instagram,
Speaker 1: we have our Patreon. You can sign up get x
Speaker 1: your content there too. If you want to just stay
Speaker 1: here and chill with us, we're happy with that as well.
Speaker 2: The YouTube thing is going to be cool because I mean,
Speaker 2: what you'll know if I'm quiet, it's because my jaw
Speaker 2: is literally on the ground.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Seeing the reactions is something else.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You will see Nicole either her mouth is wide open
Speaker 1: because she's just like in shock and awe, or her
Speaker 1: hand is covering her mouth and usually I am doing
Speaker 1: frantic hand motions.
Speaker 2: And jes you are actually yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Well, thank you guys so much for being here,
Speaker 1: and until next
Speaker 2: Time, stay Wicked,