WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity

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<v Speaker 1>to report from the same areas discussed in this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>please reach out to me directly after this episode. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly

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<v Speaker 1>at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish

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<v Speaker 1>there was more big for Society to listen to every week?

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<v Speaker 1>Well there is now. If you become a supporting member

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<v Speaker 1>over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode

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<v Speaker 1>every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the

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<v Speaker 1>Bigfoot Society and now let's get on with the show.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Bigfoot Society, You've got the privilege of talking

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<v Speaker 1>to mister Tom Powell today. You may know Tom from

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<v Speaker 1>some books that he's written. He's written a few for example,

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<v Speaker 1>you know there's The Locals and his newest book, which

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<v Speaker 1>is Planet Strange, and we'll be talking about that later.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom has also been involved with many different Bigfoot related

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<v Speaker 1>things over the years. He's written many Bigfoot books as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But welcome to the show. Tom. How's it going tonight?

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<v Speaker 2>Great?

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me on absolutely. You know, you're one

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<v Speaker 1>of the individuals that I've definitely wanted to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>over the years, and listeners will well know this, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>but trying to you know, one of my favorite books

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<v Speaker 1>is from back in the Day's Oregon big Foot Highway,

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<v Speaker 1>which you did not write, but you were involved with

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<v Speaker 1>as being one of the members of the Clackamis Sasquatchians, which.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe, Joe just kind of threw that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Joe's been a friend of mine for

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, at least a decade, maybe longer by no,

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<v Speaker 3>but know them well and us.

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<v Speaker 2>He addresses the the drainage that I live in the

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<v Speaker 2>Clacamus River. Oh, okay, I'm clo sort of the mouth

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<v Speaker 2>of the river. I'm on the other side of Esticada,

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<v Speaker 2>but the National Forest is upstream on the river from Sticada, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 2>So that's sort of the the point of demarcation between

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<v Speaker 2>the upper drainage where all the National forest land is

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<v Speaker 2>and then the lower part of the river, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a mix of ownership, some state, some private so on.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fantastic. You know, an individual like yourself, where you've

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<v Speaker 1>been in this field for many different years. I do

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<v Speaker 1>like to start off with what was the catalyst point

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<v Speaker 1>that got you into this big Foot field? To begin with, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I read.

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<v Speaker 2>Books back in the eighties. You know. Peter Burn and

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<v Speaker 2>Don Hunter had a book which was pretty unspectacted, but

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<v Speaker 2>there were others, but they were all pretty similar. I

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<v Speaker 2>had seen John Green's book, but as a teacher, I

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<v Speaker 2>was a science teacher for my whole career, and I

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<v Speaker 2>confess that I ridiculed the subject and used it as

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<v Speaker 2>an example of pseudo science. And every year I would

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<v Speaker 2>do a throwaway lesson on the day before Christmas vacation

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<v Speaker 2>when curriculum wasn't a priority because the kids were pretty

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<v Speaker 2>wound up and half the class had already left for Maui.

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<v Speaker 2>So I did a Bigfoot presentation. The school district had

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<v Speaker 2>that in search of with Leonard Nieboy, and I'd show

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<v Speaker 2>it on my sixteen millimeter movie projector and it held

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<v Speaker 2>the kids' attention on a tough day. But I did

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<v Speaker 2>make every joke in the book, although I was aware

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<v Speaker 2>that there was this guy out there, Peter Burn, who

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<v Speaker 2>was working in, among other places, the Clacamus Rivers, and he,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, was very serious about his quest to find

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<v Speaker 2>good evidence. You know, capture one.

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<v Speaker 4>Who knows, and but I just made light of the

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<v Speaker 4>whole thing for purposes of a you know, filling a

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<v Speaker 4>tough day in the curriculum.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say after I watched that movie countless times

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<v Speaker 2>in search of with Leonard Nimoy, and it too is

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<v Speaker 2>not memorable. It's just a bunch of talking heads, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there isn't any action. But I watched it and watched it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I did find that, you know, Grover Krantz's contributions

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<v Speaker 2>were pretty compelling, so that got me curious. But I

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<v Speaker 2>lived in Portland, so it wasn't really something that I

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<v Speaker 2>had a lot of direct experience with until I bought

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<v Speaker 2>a place out on the Clacamus River, which I did

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<v Speaker 2>just because the kayaking and rafting was good and I

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<v Speaker 2>had a moonlight occupation teaching kayaking canoeing classes. So I

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<v Speaker 2>bought a place on the Clackamas River and one of

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<v Speaker 2>the neighbors came over one day for a beer. They

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<v Speaker 2>were boarding horses on my property at the time, and

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<v Speaker 2>he volunteered that, you know that bigfoot thing, well we

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<v Speaker 2>get that out here. And I was a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>surprised that I not only didn't take it seriously, But

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<v Speaker 2>I had no idea that it was, you know, that

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<v Speaker 2>it manifested so close to town and in the area

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<v Speaker 2>where I had now just bought a piece of property.

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<v Speaker 2>Then I saw a sign on the country store bulletin

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<v Speaker 2>board saying there was a guy who was who collected

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<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot sightings and his name was Frank Kineaster. He lived

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<v Speaker 2>in Estacada. Yes. I called him up and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I do this thing every year, and it would be

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<v Speaker 2>really nice if I could have some kind of thing

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<v Speaker 2>to show the kids in addition to this movie. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you have anything? He goes, well, you know, we cherished

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<v Speaker 2>these artifacts, but I could lend it to you. And

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<v Speaker 2>I said, all right, perfect, perfect. So he lent me

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<v Speaker 2>a track cast, and he had a few other artifacts,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, twisted stick and things like that that he

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<v Speaker 2>thought were, you know, attributable to this asquatch. Well, one

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<v Speaker 2>thing led to another, and I started sort of following

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<v Speaker 2>the subject on my own, and then I stumbled across

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<v Speaker 2>Matthew Moneymakers BFRO website. And this was probably in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety four, and so it was a pretty primitive website

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<v Speaker 2>by today's standards. But being a mercurial fellow that he is,

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<v Speaker 2>he had trouble holding on to investigators. They would work

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<v Speaker 2>with him for a while and then his as slightly

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<v Speaker 2>intense personality would be off putting. But he had a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of people quit on him, and so he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have anyone looking into the local sightings that he was

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<v Speaker 2>getting from my immediate area. So I started doing that

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<v Speaker 2>for him, bowing up on sightings, and for a while,

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<v Speaker 2>everything in the Pacific Northwest went through my computer and

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<v Speaker 2>a crossed my desk. Eventually it became overwhelming as the

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<v Speaker 2>subject expanded. Every time he would get on a show

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<v Speaker 2>like Art Bell back in the day, then he would

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<v Speaker 2>just be flooded with sighting reports. And really at times

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<v Speaker 2>like that, I was overwhelmed as well. So I just

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<v Speaker 2>cherry picked the sightings and took the best ones or

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<v Speaker 2>the closest ones, or the most interesting ones. But then

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<v Speaker 2>I started seeing the patterns, and I'm saving everything on

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<v Speaker 2>my computer, and eventually I got to the point where

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<v Speaker 2>I had seen people's computers crash and they lose everything

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<v Speaker 2>on their herd. And that's when I started writing it

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<v Speaker 2>all down because I just felt like I started to

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<v Speaker 2>get some of this stuff off of my computer and

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<v Speaker 2>and into print, and so I basically contacted a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of the witnesses and interviewed them and uh and and

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<v Speaker 2>wrote it all down. And then one of the witnesses

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<v Speaker 2>told Matthew Moneymaker I was working on a book. He

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<v Speaker 2>was he was sure that it was a tell all

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<v Speaker 2>book that was going to make him look bad and

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<v Speaker 2>uh and that was the locals and quite the opposite.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, so that was the end of my involvement

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<v Speaker 2>with b fro uh. But you know, I was kind

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<v Speaker 2>of done with them anyway, because I had learned the

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<v Speaker 2>patterns and I knew that there were instances where uh,

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<v Speaker 2>someone saw a bigfoot dissolved into finn air. There are

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<v Speaker 2>people who have had nonverbal communication telepathy, if you will,

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<v Speaker 2>and there were multiple examples of that that I had

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<v Speaker 2>available to me in the late nineties. So then I

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<v Speaker 2>started looking for people who were having repeat sightings because

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<v Speaker 2>then I finally decided, well, this is the this is

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<v Speaker 2>the gold standard. You know, the cat's pajamas is these

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<v Speaker 2>people who are having the things come around repeatedly. And

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<v Speaker 2>there were some. There was one couple in a place

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<v Speaker 2>called Blockhouse Washington near Goldendale, eastern Washington, and they had

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<v Speaker 2>them coming out of the woods and sitting around in

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<v Speaker 2>plain sight. They even set a picnic table over on

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<v Speaker 2>the edge of their property and people would come out

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<v Speaker 2>and the sasquatch would sit there and keeping their distance.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the people said, don't stare at them. They know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they they don't like being looked at, but

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<v Speaker 2>just just act like it's nothing. But there these things

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<v Speaker 2>were coming around on a semi routine basis, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>when I met Alan in April. Why and they live

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<v Speaker 2>up near Mount Rainier. And one of the things I

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<v Speaker 2>had learned from gathering all the siding reports is that

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<v Speaker 2>there are hot spots and the closer you get to

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<v Speaker 2>Mount Rainier, the more stuff happens. And Alan and April

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<v Speaker 2>lived within I don't know, twenty miles a Mountainier, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I started going out there and interviewing them, and

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<v Speaker 2>they described, oh, yeah, there's three different generations. We call

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<v Speaker 2>them Grandpa, Grandma, mom and dad, and then the youngsters.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's three different generations. We see them. My daughter

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<v Speaker 2>sees them the most. She sees them when she's on horseback.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite often, horses are pretty aware of their surroundings and

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<v Speaker 2>then they their their ears point at things that are

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<v Speaker 2>happening in the so, you know, I had seen this before,

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<v Speaker 2>but they were a really good example of of this

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<v Speaker 2>repeat encounter stuff. They have kept a bunch of bunnies

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<v Speaker 2>and hutches on their property, and they learned that the

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<v Speaker 2>sasquatches were able to open the hutches, and the sasquatches

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<v Speaker 2>would take the the young rabbits but leave the breeders alone.

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<v Speaker 2>So they seem to understand that, you know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>not in their own interest to take the uh, the

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<v Speaker 2>breeding rabbits, but rather the offspring whatever they're called in

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<v Speaker 2>and rabbit raising. But the main thing I was, of

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<v Speaker 2>course interested in was a place to set up cameras,

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<v Speaker 2>and they acquiesced and I got my hands on some

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<v Speaker 2>early trail cams that were crazy expensive by today's standards,

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<v Speaker 2>six hundred dollars for these things back then, and we

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<v Speaker 2>started putting cameras around the property. Meanwhile I had well, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the most interesting things was I was aware

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<v Speaker 2>of this situation in Oklahoma where the sasquatches were raiding

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<v Speaker 2>an outdoor fridge. So I happened to ask Alan in April,

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<v Speaker 2>have you ever seen this? And they said yes. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>they had not put two and two together. All they

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<v Speaker 2>knew is that every once in a while they'd come

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<v Speaker 2>out and the and the fridge door was open in

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<v Speaker 2>the morning, and and Alan, the patriarch, would would scold

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<v Speaker 2>the kids for leaving the door open, and they said,

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't do that, we wouldn't. Well, then he noticed

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<v Speaker 2>that a side of a pig disappeared from the freezer.

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<v Speaker 2>There were ice cream bars in there that were untouched,

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<v Speaker 2>but the side of a pig disappeared. And they have

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<v Speaker 2>a pig roast every year, you know, Polynesian thing. They

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<v Speaker 2>bury it and the coals and everything. Well they're they're

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<v Speaker 2>pig vanished. And ice cream bars were untouched. So that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of ruled out neighborhood kids. And I hadn't seen

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<v Speaker 2>enough in other places that I was like, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>they do that. And so we of course put a

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<v Speaker 2>camera on the fridge and made sure the fridge was

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<v Speaker 2>stocked with things. Nothing happened, and the activity shifted to

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<v Speaker 2>another part of the property, so we moved the cameras

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<v Speaker 2>over there. Well, then the fridge got hit again when

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<v Speaker 2>the camera wasn't on it. So little by little it

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<v Speaker 2>started to appear that they understood what we were doing,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were reverse to the cameras. Every time we

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<v Speaker 2>would put the cameras in the location where they where

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<v Speaker 2>the activity was, the activity would stop. Took me a

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<v Speaker 2>while to put two and two together, and I eventually

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<v Speaker 2>came to that conclusion. But my colleagues that in BFRO

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<v Speaker 2>were still pretty skeptical. You know, in those days, no

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<v Speaker 2>one was assigning the Sasquatches with the degree of intelligence

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<v Speaker 2>that enabled them to understand and avoid cameras. Well. Now

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<v Speaker 2>we laugh at that. I mean, you know, when when

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<v Speaker 2>people say I don't I don't enjoy it. I just

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to go away, what should I do? I tell

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<v Speaker 2>them to put out a camera. That'll stop it for sure,

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<v Speaker 2>And and it really does. And over and over again,

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<v Speaker 2>we we put cameras in the woods and had them

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<v Speaker 2>either dismantled, powered down, pulled off the tree, and left

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<v Speaker 2>face down in the ground. Just just a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of things like that that all point to the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>They understand and are averse to this idea of cameras.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that was one of the chapters in the

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<v Speaker 2>locals that was sort of groundbreaking, at least in the

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<v Speaker 2>time early two thousands. And then the whole idea of habituation,

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<v Speaker 2>that there are people who have the sasquatches, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>come around on some sort of semi routine basis. That

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<v Speaker 2>was that was new with the time, isn't anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>There's I want to jump in and make a connection

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<v Speaker 1>for some listeners that might not get something that was

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<v Speaker 1>said a few minutes ago. The locals is probably one

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<v Speaker 1>of the I would consider it the best source of

237
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.400
<v Speaker 1>knowledge about what is considered by the community right now.

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<v Speaker 1>The siege at O Nubby in Oklahoma.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's where that's that's where I first learned about

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<v Speaker 2>the outdoor freezers.

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<v Speaker 1>Right exactly. Yeah, how how uh so were you involved

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<v Speaker 1>with with interviewing anyone involved with that?

243
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<v Speaker 2>Was the guy of that household and he shot him.

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<v Speaker 2>He shot at once and he he felt that he

245
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<v Speaker 2>hit and there was blood on the ground, and he

246
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<v Speaker 2>he relayed that to uh, Matt and myself, and Matt

247
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<v Speaker 2>of course said, don't touch thing. We're sunning the team

248
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:06.039
<v Speaker 2>right there. We'll we'll handle it from here. Well, in retrospect,

249
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.119
<v Speaker 2>that was a mistake. It was a terrible rainstorm and

250
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.279
<v Speaker 2>it all washed away.

251
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<v Speaker 1>Really wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so if anybody's ever in that position, don't

253
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.799
<v Speaker 2>don't wait an hour to get out there and get

254
00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.480
<v Speaker 2>the tissue sample or whatever it is. But it is

255
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<v Speaker 2>kind of of a weird coincidence that I don't think

256
00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.920
<v Speaker 2>is as much of a coincidence as people think that

257
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:41.440
<v Speaker 2>when you know, something like that happens, in comes this

258
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:47.880
<v Speaker 2>rainstorm on and nowhere and washes the evidence away. There

259
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:50.880
<v Speaker 2>is a tribe I think it's in Wisconsin, and their

260
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<v Speaker 2>name for the Sasquatch, which I forget what it is,

261
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.680
<v Speaker 2>but it translates into he who makes the wind blow. Wow.

262
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.039
<v Speaker 2>So there's something weird about weather with these things. And

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<v Speaker 2>let's just say, I'm I suspect that they have powers

264
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:17.680
<v Speaker 2>that are a lot more sophisticated than we realize.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely so, in your your opinion, because you were able

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to these the individuals that were involved with this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know firsthand, it sounds like it was an event

268
00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.079
<v Speaker 1>that absolutely actually happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh absolutely, And and like I say, they

270
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.799
<v Speaker 2>were we're having repeat visitations. One of the things that

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00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.680
<v Speaker 2>was happening was that they were pulling the screen, they

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<v Speaker 2>were messing with the windows and tearing the screen off,

273
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.599
<v Speaker 2>the off the window and and and doing things that

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00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.240
<v Speaker 2>started to become menacing. And and that's when said I

275
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.319
<v Speaker 2>just wanted to go away. I don't like this thing.

276
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm not interested in gathering evidence. I want these things

277
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.960
<v Speaker 2>out of here. I met the guy. I went to

278
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma for one of these festivals that they had right

279
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.000
<v Speaker 2>there in that area. And one of the people who

280
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.880
<v Speaker 2>attended was one of the neighbors. And he brought me

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00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:25.359
<v Speaker 2>over and showed me the place, and and man, I

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00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>met a couple of different times, and you know, he

283
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>he was very concerned about the safety of his family.

284
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't interested in gathering Bigfoot evidence. But he was

285
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.240
<v Speaker 2>willing to uh play ball at least for a while

286
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:49.400
<v Speaker 2>with b FRORO before he got a little exasperated with

287
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:54.079
<v Speaker 2>their their ways of being and so on and so forth.

288
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>But you know that it was it was in the

289
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:05.480
<v Speaker 2>early days when when the sort of attempts to gather

290
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.799
<v Speaker 2>better information were quite ham handed.

291
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Sure, yeah, it's such an interesting story from you know,

292
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:20.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty some odd years ago. And it's hard to track

293
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 1>down individuals. I know there was individual he's like a

294
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.039
<v Speaker 1>private investigator but also part of the BFO. And I

295
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.079
<v Speaker 1>don't even know if he's around anymore.

296
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:31.039
<v Speaker 2>To be honest, but well, one guy was an airline

297
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:36.920
<v Speaker 2>pilot pilot, one guy was a hunter. Matt put together

298
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:43.279
<v Speaker 2>a group of three or four guys who went down there,

299
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>all card carrying BFIRO But like I said, by the

300
00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:54.039
<v Speaker 2>time they got there, the evidence was washed away and

301
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:59.559
<v Speaker 2>they didn't really have a good idea about what to

302
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:06.240
<v Speaker 2>do when anyway, But eventually, you know that the activity stopped,

303
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:11.279
<v Speaker 2>as it always does, especially once you know all the

304
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.279
<v Speaker 2>official investigators show up. You know when unfamiliar cars start

305
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:19.880
<v Speaker 2>pulling in and then that destabilizes a situation.

306
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, I mean it's yeah, it makes it totally different.

307
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:27.599
<v Speaker 1>You know. Another thing that you were involved with is

308
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.200
<v Speaker 1>uh I believe you were actually the individual that found

309
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:35.359
<v Speaker 1>the imprint that was then used to make the Scukam

310
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.079
<v Speaker 1>cast and Scukam medals and Gifford Pinchot. Is that correct?

311
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't find it, okay, Derek and rit Nole

312
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.119
<v Speaker 2>were the ones who who stumbled across it. But we

313
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.119
<v Speaker 2>were in the Mount Saint Helen's area for a better

314
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.680
<v Speaker 2>part of a week. We were being followed around by

315
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.039
<v Speaker 2>an Australian film crew that did a show back then

316
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:06.319
<v Speaker 2>called Animal X. Right, so you know you can imagine

317
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:11.079
<v Speaker 2>what that's about. Lockness, Monster, Bigfoot, the works. And so

318
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.319
<v Speaker 2>for this episode, they they came out and they had

319
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>an early thermal camera. The batteries didn't work it, it

320
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.599
<v Speaker 2>didn't hold the charge, and in it, you know, seemed

321
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.480
<v Speaker 2>to be a promising thing because you could see into

322
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.759
<v Speaker 2>the night. But we never got anything with it. But

323
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:39.559
<v Speaker 2>that was the big technological uh innovation that had just

324
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of come on the scene back then. But they

325
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.319
<v Speaker 2>weren't getting anything after a week or so of of

326
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.119
<v Speaker 2>hanging out and trying all these different things. So on

327
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.880
<v Speaker 2>our last night before we all had to you know,

328
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 2>get back to town, the offices had to get back home.

329
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:01.359
<v Speaker 2>But they didn't have anything and were sort of like, look,

330
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.960
<v Speaker 2>what are we gonna do? And I said, well, all right,

331
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.880
<v Speaker 2>can I make a suggestion here. You guys have been

332
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.400
<v Speaker 2>sneaking around a lot. Well, I know these people Allan

333
00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.599
<v Speaker 2>in April, and what I know is that they know

334
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:21.359
<v Speaker 2>your tricks and traps. The Saskes are up at Allan

335
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and Apriles. They were on to us, and they knew

336
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the cameras and and so instead of sneaking around and

337
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:32.000
<v Speaker 2>trying tricks, why don't you try a different approach, and

338
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>they said, okay, what do you got in mind? And

339
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:43.039
<v Speaker 2>I said, gestures of friendliness, accommendation. You know, we got

340
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Speaker 2>all this food that isn't like. We got a case

341
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:51.240
<v Speaker 2>of peaches sitting here. Put them out somewhere and and

342
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:56.079
<v Speaker 2>just see if they don't, you know, take them, but

343
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.559
<v Speaker 2>but don't put the cameras on them, and don't hide

344
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:02.039
<v Speaker 2>in the bush. Just just put them out there and

345
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>as a gesture of friendlinessconciliation. And they said okay. So

346
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:12.319
<v Speaker 2>they took it off and drove up the road and

347
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.599
<v Speaker 2>found a big pull out on the side of the

348
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.359
<v Speaker 2>road where they turn around, logging trucks and big mud

349
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:24.839
<v Speaker 2>puddle in the middle of it, and they put the

350
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:29.920
<v Speaker 2>apples and peaches there in the center of the this

351
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of shot over turnaround in the middle of a

352
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.440
<v Speaker 2>forest road. And that's where they went back the next

353
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.640
<v Speaker 2>day to check their food and and that's when they

354
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.119
<v Speaker 2>found the big impression. And all I remember is that

355
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:47.640
<v Speaker 2>they came racing back to camp snow that night, and

356
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.839
<v Speaker 2>snow was melting in the morning, and they came roaring

357
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.079
<v Speaker 2>into camp and said, you gotta zee this, Come here,

358
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Come here, come here. We jumped in the car, and

359
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:03.279
<v Speaker 2>to their credit, they did notice that it there was

360
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.799
<v Speaker 2>an impression. They were, of course looking for footprints, you know,

361
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 2>that's all we were ever looking for. It's footprints. But

362
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden they at least Rick Rick Noele

363
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:18.799
<v Speaker 2>especially recognized that that that's that's something else, but that

364
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:24.240
<v Speaker 2>wasn't here before and uh and so push came to shove.

365
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:29.039
<v Speaker 2>What they deduced was that the thing sat down and

366
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:34.720
<v Speaker 2>reached for the fruit, perhaps so as not to leave

367
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the footprints that we were looking for.

368
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:44.039
<v Speaker 1>That's extremely interesting because there would be I mean, logically,

369
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 1>there'd be no scukam cast if you hadn't had made

370
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>that suggestion, which is pretty correct.

371
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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

372
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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's it. That's incredible. It really you know, it

373
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 1>makes you think, you know, you start thinking outside the box. Yeah.

374
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Hey, they listened because you know, they all had their

375
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.559
<v Speaker 2>ideas on letting you. The funny thing was there was

376
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.440
<v Speaker 2>actually a degree of fear. Derek showed up with a

377
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:16.880
<v Speaker 2>landscaping trailer that he slept in, had no windows and

378
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:20.200
<v Speaker 2>had one door and he would lock it from the inside.

379
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.079
<v Speaker 2>And then here I am sleeping in my ARII tent

380
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>with you know, two mil nylone and uh, and I

381
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 2>don't know, a few of the guys had guns and stuff,

382
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:40.240
<v Speaker 2>but Derek was sleeping in this fortified trailer because you know,

383
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't sure, but that his safety was not on

384
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 2>the line, and so that that was, you know, it

385
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.839
<v Speaker 2>was kind of humorous how how different, uh, the approaches

386
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.400
<v Speaker 2>were back then, and how unsure people were about putting

387
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>themselves out there. But they did listen when I said

388
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.359
<v Speaker 2>quit the tricks and traps. It didn't work a fair

389
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:12.039
<v Speaker 2>at Mountaineer, and once we started being accommodating, they started

390
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:16.960
<v Speaker 2>cooperating at least a little. But there they wouldn't appear

391
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>on camera. But but then I finally found a work

392
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>around on that, and that is I met this psychic

393
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 2>dude through Ray Crow in the Western Bigfoot Society, and

394
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>he felt like he had communication. His name was Steve Fredericks,

395
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>and I said, Steve, all right, well, you know we

396
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.559
<v Speaker 2>got this area, and we got these cameras and we've

397
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 2>been putting them out for two years, so let's try something.

398
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Will you please use your juju to ask for permissions?

399
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:56.319
<v Speaker 2>And that kind of worked. He said, well, he said,

400
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:59.519
<v Speaker 2>he called me back after he felt like he had

401
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.279
<v Speaker 2>had the com intact and uh. He said, they were

402
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>very impressed that you asked. And but he also he said,

403
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.319
<v Speaker 2>there's a thing and that is we don't we have

404
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>a rule against being seen, and we also have a

405
00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:20.799
<v Speaker 2>rule against being photographed. This is what he was claiming

406
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:26.839
<v Speaker 2>he received by way of a you know, a telepathic response.

407
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 2>And but then within two days Alan calls me up

408
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:36.079
<v Speaker 2>and said, we got something on the camera for the

409
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.240
<v Speaker 2>first time, and it was a shadow. But it was

410
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.279
<v Speaker 2>a shadow that looked for all the world like the

411
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>upper torso of a of a you know, primate, something upright,

412
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and it was the It was the first and best

413
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.079
<v Speaker 2>thing we ever got on the cameras and it was

414
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>within two days of of of Steve asking. Uh. Now,

415
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:02.359
<v Speaker 2>I did not tell Alan in April that I was

416
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.000
<v Speaker 2>doing this, you know, trying to do a single blind

417
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 2>psychological you know, you can't let each side of the

418
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 2>experiment know what the other, you know. I think they

419
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>call it single blind in psychology studies, the double blind

420
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:22.519
<v Speaker 2>was when the researcher doesn't even know themselves which treatment

421
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:27.079
<v Speaker 2>is being administered to. Well, anyway, after we got a

422
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 2>camera image, but not a very good one, I didn't

423
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>tell Steve that we got anything. I didn't want to,

424
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, sort of lead him on or anything, but

425
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:39.319
<v Speaker 2>I said, Steve, I want you to ask for a bone.

426
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Forget the camera. It's not a thing I want to

427
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.599
<v Speaker 2>And Okay, they're not going to like that, but okay.

428
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:50.839
<v Speaker 2>And so then he called me back he said, I

429
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:55.000
<v Speaker 2>did get what you said. Two days later, Alan calls

430
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.920
<v Speaker 2>me up New Year's Day of I think it was

431
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.160
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and one and said, we just found a

432
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:03.759
<v Speaker 2>bone at the base of a camera tree. So I'll

433
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.519
<v Speaker 2>be right up. And so I drove one hundred miles

434
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.440
<v Speaker 2>up there and he handed me the bone and it

435
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:11.920
<v Speaker 2>was about the size and shape of a coffee saucer,

436
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:17.839
<v Speaker 2>but it was real thick and it ended up After

437
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:23.319
<v Speaker 2>checking around a whole bunch, I finally found a guy

438
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:27.079
<v Speaker 2>who raised EMUs and he was able to positively identify

439
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.279
<v Speaker 2>it as the breast bone of an emu. And uh,

440
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:37.319
<v Speaker 2>so I asked Alan, do you know anybody who raises

441
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.880
<v Speaker 2>these things, because you know people raise them domestically for

442
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess meat, And he said, yeah, my dad raises EMUs.

443
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Where's your dad live five miles away? Well, do you

444
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.200
<v Speaker 2>have any explanation for how an EMU bone got from

445
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 2>it even five miles away to your house. No, I

446
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:03.960
<v Speaker 2>really don't. And of course, you know, in retrospect, it's

447
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 2>in my view, indicative of a sense of humor. Uh.

448
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, what I was asking for was of course

449
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:17.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit audacious. You know, would you dig up

450
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.799
<v Speaker 2>one of your relatives so that you could provide a

451
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.559
<v Speaker 2>bone to some person who wanted proof of I don't

452
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 2>know what. Uh. But when I finally told Steve Fredericks

453
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.400
<v Speaker 2>what happened, uh, he hit himself on the forehead with

454
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:38.200
<v Speaker 2>his palm and he said, you know, I never specified

455
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.720
<v Speaker 2>one of your bones. I was, yeah, it's a bone,

456
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 2>so and and they complied quite literally. What's amazing is

457
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.119
<v Speaker 2>the timing is that it all happened within a very

458
00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:00.680
<v Speaker 2>uh small period of time, and and that the people

459
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 2>who found the foot bone did not know that I

460
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>was doing this. And Steve Frederick had never visited the site,

461
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:12.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't know where it was, so he could not be

462
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:18.279
<v Speaker 2>accused of seeding the or salting whatever the word is for,

463
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:27.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, leaving imitation evidence for serious minded researchers to scumbore.

464
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Upon tom When I when I talked to individuals, yeah,

465
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.319
<v Speaker 1>and I've talked to individuals for a few years in

466
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>this field. I find that sometimes there's a time where

467
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:43.680
<v Speaker 1>they it changes from their investigating things, but then they

468
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:47.599
<v Speaker 1>really get in it becomes super personal for them. What

469
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:50.359
<v Speaker 1>did that start to happen to you? Where you started

470
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 1>to experience things yourself or have any experience with the Sasquatch?

471
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, not as much as I was being for. The

472
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>frustration was that every time I showed it up, showed

473
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.400
<v Speaker 2>up at Alan and Aaples, everything would stop, and then

474
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 2>as soon as I left, everything would resume. When I

475
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:19.320
<v Speaker 2>say everything, I mean, let's just say the limited activity

476
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:25.119
<v Speaker 2>that they were experiencing always stopped when I showed up,

477
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:31.840
<v Speaker 2>And all of a sudden it became clear that they

478
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>understood who I was and they weren't gonna cooperate with,

479
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:46.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, Joe Researcher, namely me. But sometimes there was

480
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.079
<v Speaker 2>manifest a sense of humor. For instance, one night I

481
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.559
<v Speaker 2>sat there at Alan and Naples and I, oh, you know,

482
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:55.800
<v Speaker 2>in those days, we were all thought the tree knocking

483
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>was it? You know, that's just how they We were

484
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.599
<v Speaker 2>sure that they were hitting trees with sticks. So I

485
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 2>sat there all night with a baseball bat, three times

486
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.440
<v Speaker 2>in a row, whack whack, whack, and did that every

487
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:11.880
<v Speaker 2>fifteen minutes for the better part of the night. And

488
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:14.400
<v Speaker 2>eventually at four point thirty in the morning, I left

489
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.079
<v Speaker 2>because I had a dentist appointment or something mid morning,

490
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:22.199
<v Speaker 2>had to get back home, and I had a one

491
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:26.199
<v Speaker 2>hundred mile drive at four point thirty, and I pulled

492
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:31.800
<v Speaker 2>into my house at just at sunrise, which you know,

493
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.519
<v Speaker 2>in August is about five thirty five forty five. And

494
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:41.480
<v Speaker 2>as soon as I got out of my car from

495
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the woods in the back of my property comes whack, whack, whack,

496
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.239
<v Speaker 2>And I was so tired I couldn't even walk to

497
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the back of the property. I just had to get

498
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:59.199
<v Speaker 2>in bed and lie down. But what's funny is somehow

499
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:05.239
<v Speaker 2>the idea was conveyed one hundred miles from Allen and

500
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 2>Aprels to my house, and there they were responding only there.

501
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.360
<v Speaker 2>When I reflect on that, it's it's to me, that's

502
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:19.559
<v Speaker 2>that sense of humor.

503
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, absolutely, I would definitely agree with you that, Tom,

504
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to talk about the Oregon big Foot Highway

505
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.760
<v Speaker 1>for a little bit in your own words, How would

506
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.760
<v Speaker 1>you describe what the Oregon big Foot Highway actually is.

507
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:42.800
<v Speaker 2>It's it's it's highway to twenty four. It's a state highway,

508
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.840
<v Speaker 2>and then when it enters the National Forest it becomes

509
00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:50.280
<v Speaker 2>the forty two Road. But it is the road that

510
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.280
<v Speaker 2>goes from s Decada up and over the crest of

511
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:56.360
<v Speaker 2>the Cascades around Mount Jefferson and then descends down the

512
00:36:56.360 --> 00:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Brighton Bush River to a place called Detroit, Oregon. Pretty

513
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:06.079
<v Speaker 2>small town on the Santiem River, but it is It

514
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.440
<v Speaker 2>basically speaks the entire Clockamus River basin, especially the upper

515
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.000
<v Speaker 2>part of the basin upstream of Sticada in the National Forest,

516
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.639
<v Speaker 2>where a whole bunch of sasquatch sidings have occurred over time.

517
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:27.800
<v Speaker 2>You know some famous ones like the one where the

518
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:33.679
<v Speaker 2>guy saw the sasquatch lifting up rocks and grabbing pikas

519
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 2>out of the ground and eating them. That's up on

520
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:42.199
<v Speaker 2>what's called Burnt Granite Ridge. But there's just a whole

521
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 2>bunch of siding activity that happens in the in in

522
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:52.400
<v Speaker 2>along the Clocamus River and along the tributaries. Cloacamus County,

523
00:37:53.239 --> 00:38:00.159
<v Speaker 2>which contains the river, of course, uh has more sasquatch

524
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:03.840
<v Speaker 2>sidings than any anywhere else in Oregon. There are places

525
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 2>in Washington that has more. There's places in northern California,

526
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.480
<v Speaker 2>but in Oregon, clack in this county is number one.

527
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:19.559
<v Speaker 2>So Joe just did his best to collect in chronicle

528
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.280
<v Speaker 2>as many of the historical sidings that came out of

529
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:30.599
<v Speaker 2>that area, plotsam on maps and so on. I think

530
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the only thing that's perhaps misleading about doing that is

531
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:38.760
<v Speaker 2>people want to put themselves in that same place where

532
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a sighting historically happened, or maybe even more than one.

533
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:47.360
<v Speaker 2>But in my view, I think that's a little misguided.

534
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that the sidings are not necessarily attached to

535
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:59.519
<v Speaker 2>any single spot. It's it's just that the person was

536
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:04.360
<v Speaker 2>in the right place at the right time. Rather than

537
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:08.599
<v Speaker 2>put yourself at the exact place where previous sighting has happened,

538
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:10.599
<v Speaker 2>I think you just kind of got to go up

539
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.760
<v Speaker 2>there and camp out and hang out and let them

540
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:14.480
<v Speaker 2>come to you.

541
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I think that's a great way to put it.

542
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 1>It is. I mean, it's not an incredibly easy drive

543
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.639
<v Speaker 1>to get through there. You definitely need to be prepared

544
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:27.760
<v Speaker 1>to get down that road. Correct.

545
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:32.400
<v Speaker 2>No, No, it's it's at two lane road and then

546
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 2>the center stripe goes away once you get into the

547
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:42.639
<v Speaker 2>National Forest. But it's paved and it's an easy drive, scenic,

548
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.960
<v Speaker 2>very windy, but there's a whole bunch of drainages that

549
00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.679
<v Speaker 2>flow into the clack in this river, Oak Grove Fork

550
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and the Roaring River and Memelush Creek and Fish Creek

551
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:08.159
<v Speaker 2>and up any of those creeks. Things have happened, So

552
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not just the road itself, it's all the ancillary

553
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:17.320
<v Speaker 2>roads that are are part of that part of the

554
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Mountain Hook National Forest, but they all have stuff going

555
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.639
<v Speaker 2>on the side. Roads start to get a little beat

556
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 2>up and primitive and they're mostly logging roads. But it's

557
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.519
<v Speaker 2>a great piece of public land and you can just

558
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 2>drive on up there and set up camp. But it

559
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:41.719
<v Speaker 2>is not overly difficult to get in there. But there

560
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:45.440
<v Speaker 2>are places that are designated wilderness, like the Roaring River,

561
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.880
<v Speaker 2>and if one wants to get into there, that is

562
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:55.840
<v Speaker 2>actually trail less, so you sort of have to navigate

563
00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:01.599
<v Speaker 2>drop into these steep drainages and try your best not

564
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:02.320
<v Speaker 2>to get lost.

565
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that sounds wild.

566
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's there's easy spots and you know a lot

567
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.159
<v Speaker 2>of the sidings were right along the main highway, right

568
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 2>by a bridge or just you know a cop was

569
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.880
<v Speaker 2>driving down the highway and here was this creature standing there,

570
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.920
<v Speaker 2>swaying back and forth at five in the morning, that

571
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:29.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing. So most of the sidings were from

572
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the car window. That's really really That doesn't mean everybody

573
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 2>who drove through there is going to have something happen.

574
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Would would that they could. It's a statistical thing, and

575
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:49.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, the the chances of having something happen are

576
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:53.480
<v Speaker 2>one in a thousand on any given day. But if

577
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.239
<v Speaker 2>you go up there a thousand times, something's going to happen.

578
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.199
<v Speaker 2>You know. There's this guy Les Stroud who did a

579
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:08.000
<v Speaker 2>show called Survivor and he would go out into the

580
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:13.760
<v Speaker 2>woods all by himself and hang out, and eventually, on

581
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:19.880
<v Speaker 2>at least one of his episodes, he was approached and

582
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:24.840
<v Speaker 2>something was moving around and really gave him the hebgb's

583
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and that's when he sort of started taking the sasquatch

584
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:31.000
<v Speaker 2>things seriously.

585
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.920
<v Speaker 1>I will also say for listeners, if you're curious about

586
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:39.599
<v Speaker 1>the sasquatch in the pika reference that Tom made, that's

587
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I believe the Glenn Thomas incident, I think, and that's

588
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.719
<v Speaker 1>called out in the book and you can really read

589
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.719
<v Speaker 1>up on it in the book that we've been talking about.

590
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Burt Granite Ridge. It's it's not the worst road ever,

591
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.800
<v Speaker 2>but it's what's a little spooky for for some is

592
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the fact that these roads go up the side of

593
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:03.440
<v Speaker 2>a mountain and there's no guide rail. It's not a

594
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 2>bad road, you certainly just want to keep your mind

595
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:08.760
<v Speaker 2>on the road and you quit playing with your stereo

596
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:12.599
<v Speaker 2>because you get a car off the off the road

597
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.599
<v Speaker 2>and and you you might never be seen again. But

598
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.639
<v Speaker 2>but Burnt Granite Ridge is where that happened, and those

599
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:23.199
<v Speaker 2>rocks are still staffed there if one finds their way

600
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:26.280
<v Speaker 2>up there, you can still see the remnants of what

601
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Glenn Thomas described thirty years ago.

602
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:36.840
<v Speaker 1>By now, have you had any any things happen yourself

603
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 1>when you were involved with the other members of the

604
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Oregon Big for Highway in that area, any incidents that happened.

605
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've had lots of things happen over the

606
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:53.639
<v Speaker 2>years that uh, you know up in that clock in

607
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:58.960
<v Speaker 2>this area. So you know, Joe and I and a

608
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:02.599
<v Speaker 2>bunch of other guys would would camp out there a

609
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:08.679
<v Speaker 2>couple three times a summer and sometimes you'd hear some

610
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:15.239
<v Speaker 2>scream in the distance. We've had several times where something

611
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:21.760
<v Speaker 2>disappeared under mysterious circumstances from our camp. One time, my

612
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>wife and I were on one of these outings and

613
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:34.000
<v Speaker 2>they had a bunch of other people uh bar uh

614
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.599
<v Speaker 2>what's her last name? Anyway, she was doing a bfr

615
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:39.920
<v Speaker 2>row outing and had a bunch of people up there.

616
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.760
<v Speaker 2>We went up and joined them, and one of the

617
00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:49.599
<v Speaker 2>participants had a GPS unit taken out of their plastic

618
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.480
<v Speaker 2>case and and then uh Ceily, my wife and I

619
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:56.760
<v Speaker 2>found it in the middle of the road a mile

620
00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:00.360
<v Speaker 2>and a half outside of camp, and they couldn't explain

621
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 2>how it got there. And then we went up on

622
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 2>a climbed up onto a promontory over this rock quarry

623
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and we're sitting there and my wife took her watch

624
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:18.039
<v Speaker 2>off and left it on the rocks, and then we

625
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>did some other stuff and came back and then she

626
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:25.559
<v Speaker 2>realized she had didn't pick up her watch. Well. Then

627
00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:30.039
<v Speaker 2>the next day they some kids were part of our group,

628
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>said oh, we saw that watch. We climbed up to

629
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:36.440
<v Speaker 2>that promontory and we saw the watch, but we didn't

630
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:41.679
<v Speaker 2>touch it because it wasn't ours. And I said, well,

631
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:44.559
<v Speaker 2>we've been nice if you brought it home. But I

632
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>guess we'll go back and get it. And the girl said, well,

633
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the other thing we noticed is that the time wasn't

634
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:53.159
<v Speaker 2>set to the correct hour. We had just had a

635
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:58.519
<v Speaker 2>time change and so my wife hadn't reset the watch. Well,

636
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:01.000
<v Speaker 2>then when we went back to get the watch, we

637
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:04.760
<v Speaker 2>found it right there and that time had been updated

638
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:05.840
<v Speaker 2>to the correct time.

639
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, wow, now that doesn't prove big but did But.

640
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Those kinds of things that you get, you know, it's

641
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:23.519
<v Speaker 2>it's always something that you're not expecting and it's there.

642
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:29.679
<v Speaker 2>It's as though you're being challenged to notice. So when

643
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 2>you're walking around in the in the woods, one thing

644
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I had learned to notice is as these weirdly twisted trees,

645
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:47.280
<v Speaker 2>usually at trail junctions. You you get other curiosities like

646
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>that that are really hard to explain. But it is

647
00:46:53.400 --> 00:47:00.000
<v Speaker 2>definitely not necessarily proof, rather just an indication that something

648
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>intelligent and and with a sense of humor is sort

649
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:07.960
<v Speaker 2>of leaving things and inviting you to notice.

650
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.480
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you, Tom, I mean, I just went

651
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:13.079
<v Speaker 1>out to Oregon for the first time this last July,

652
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.679
<v Speaker 1>to Oakridge area, and I mean, yeah, the stuff you

653
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:20.079
<v Speaker 1>find out in the woods out there like miles and

654
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.519
<v Speaker 1>miles out on forest rows. I mean, yeah, you're you're

655
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Speaker 1>finding tree twists that are in like not just one,

656
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.880
<v Speaker 1>but like multiples and like high up and it's like,

657
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:34.119
<v Speaker 1>oh man, what's going on around here? Dude?

658
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, so what I've learned is answer them, add to it.

659
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:44.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh so pick a leaf and and and stab it

660
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:50.920
<v Speaker 2>through a branch or or add another twist. Uh and uh.

661
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:56.400
<v Speaker 2>One of these guys, I know, Toby Johnson area where

662
00:47:56.440 --> 00:48:02.039
<v Speaker 2>he was, was inviting them to contribute to his rock

663
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:07.679
<v Speaker 2>art and he was getting quite a you know, a

664
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:14.599
<v Speaker 2>bit of back and forth. One thing that Judy what's

665
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:20.119
<v Speaker 2>your name, Henry I think from Washington brought us to

666
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.719
<v Speaker 2>was she said, take a picture with your phone, do

667
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:27.239
<v Speaker 2>a little un arrangement there, and then take a picture,

668
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and darned if you won't come back the next day

669
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and things have been moved. Well, I said, Judy, so

670
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:36.239
<v Speaker 2>are you really of the thinking that sasquatch has nothing

671
00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 2>better to do than walk around in the woods and

672
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:44.039
<v Speaker 2>rearrange all our little pieces of woods art? And she

673
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:48.360
<v Speaker 2>said no, no, they do it with energy. They don't

674
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:53.000
<v Speaker 2>have to physically be there. Look like, oh that's that'll

675
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 2>you scratch in your head. But I think there's something

676
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.119
<v Speaker 2>to that. You know, it's pretty again audacious to think

677
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:05.360
<v Speaker 2>that they follow you around and and and rearrange your

678
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:12.159
<v Speaker 2>pieces of stick and ag that you're leaving there. But

679
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:17.400
<v Speaker 2>but however it's done. You do get these acknowledgments, which

680
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:21.000
<v Speaker 2>is fun, but it's it's it's again not really the

681
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:25.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of proof that people would like. You know, you're

682
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:26.920
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to be able to take that to

683
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Jeff melderm and say, hey, I got proof they move

684
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 2>my rocks.

685
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:38.199
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. But then it's like, at the end of the day,

686
00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:41.519
<v Speaker 1>like what what is really more important that we can

687
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.840
<v Speaker 1>take it to an individual like that and be like, Okay,

688
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:48.719
<v Speaker 1>here's a footprint or you can experience something yourself and

689
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:50.480
<v Speaker 1>is that enough?

690
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:55.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, it depends on the individual, but you you

691
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:58.320
<v Speaker 2>better believe that there are people. And I was one

692
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:02.079
<v Speaker 2>of those people who was I just felt like, you know,

693
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:05.239
<v Speaker 2>if I work this thing long enough, it's it's got

694
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to work. You know, if I put enough cameras at

695
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Alan and Aple's place, it's gonna work. Well, it won't,

696
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:20.159
<v Speaker 2>but what you might get is something that is sort

697
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:27.000
<v Speaker 2>of personally meaningful to you. But They very much seem

698
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:31.800
<v Speaker 2>to understand exactly what we're looking for, and they're not

699
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.320
<v Speaker 2>going to give it to us.

700
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:39.079
<v Speaker 1>You've spent so many years in this have you come

701
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 1>up with any ideas of what the Sasquatch might actually

702
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:47.400
<v Speaker 1>be based on, you know, things you've looked into and experienced.

703
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And and that's what Planet Strange gets at, is

704
00:50:52.360 --> 00:51:03.199
<v Speaker 2>that it The question that I finally came to and

705
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:07.360
<v Speaker 2>attempted to address is where do they go when they

706
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:12.159
<v Speaker 2>want safe haven? I don't think they're just kind of

707
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 2>roaming around in the wilderness. And these TP shaped stick

708
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:22.760
<v Speaker 2>structures that we find in the woods are indicative of something,

709
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:27.079
<v Speaker 2>but there are no way shelter. But they must have

710
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:31.599
<v Speaker 2>safe haven, and they must have this place where they

711
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:35.480
<v Speaker 2>go when they want to be left alone. And who

712
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:40.280
<v Speaker 2>knows where their Sasquatch family or whatever. And you know,

713
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:45.559
<v Speaker 2>my Native American sources said they come from underground. They

714
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:51.400
<v Speaker 2>emanate from within the earth. So that's really what Planet

715
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:57.119
<v Speaker 2>Strange attempts to address, is what is the evidence and

716
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:04.199
<v Speaker 2>the indications of this subterranean realm? And I do believe

717
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.199
<v Speaker 2>that it is the place where the Sasquatch and the

718
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:15.000
<v Speaker 2>extraterrestrial phenomena intersect, and they do intersect, they do know

719
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:19.559
<v Speaker 2>each other. I believe the Sasquatch are essentially doing the

720
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:24.519
<v Speaker 2>heavy lifting, and they are the observers and guardians of

721
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:27.360
<v Speaker 2>what happens here on Earth. But they answer to a

722
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:31.280
<v Speaker 2>higher power, which may come and go from the planet,

723
00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:35.400
<v Speaker 2>and I think they do. I think they originated from

724
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.480
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else in the galaxy. But I think it's probably

725
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:43.400
<v Speaker 2>a mistake to suppose that the extraterrestrial phenomenon as it

726
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:49.079
<v Speaker 2>manifests today necessarily comes from space. I think they are

727
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.519
<v Speaker 2>already here. They have been for one hundred thousand years.

728
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:58.000
<v Speaker 2>They're comfortably ensconced on planet Earth, and those lights and

729
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:03.159
<v Speaker 2>things that we see in the sky emanate from again

730
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:04.480
<v Speaker 2>within the Earth.

731
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.039
<v Speaker 1>You hear so many, so many accounts of that when

732
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.559
<v Speaker 1>you talk to witnesses about how you know, maybe there

733
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.280
<v Speaker 1>is an orb they saw after they saw a sasquatch,

734
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:20.280
<v Speaker 1>or they saw a sasquatch controlling an orange. Just it's

735
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:27.679
<v Speaker 1>so interesting when you hear those those tales of lights.

736
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:32.199
<v Speaker 1>But the Planet Strange book is just you really get

737
00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:36.559
<v Speaker 1>into some some interesting territory. I mean, you're talking from

738
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:43.639
<v Speaker 1>about everything from the Pyramids two giants, the.

739
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Mound phenomenon, er muted triangle, there's a there are a

740
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:58.280
<v Speaker 2>litany of phenomena that we tend to look at separately

741
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that that probably intercept or let's just say, when when

742
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:09.239
<v Speaker 2>you hit a wall, it's often because you're not asking

743
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:14.519
<v Speaker 2>the right question. And in this case, I asked the

744
00:54:14.599 --> 00:54:20.519
<v Speaker 2>question of how do these seemingly separate phenomena interact, and

745
00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:26.400
<v Speaker 2>all combined to suggest something that has been right in

746
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.400
<v Speaker 2>front of us for a long time, but we just

747
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:33.880
<v Speaker 2>have not you know, sort of put two and two together.

748
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.920
<v Speaker 2>So that's what I attempted to do, is take a

749
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:44.280
<v Speaker 2>bunch of unexplained things and then suppose that perhaps the

750
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:48.400
<v Speaker 2>question that we're not asking is how they interact. One

751
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:52.559
<v Speaker 2>of them being does this asquatch have any interaction with

752
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:57.320
<v Speaker 2>the extraterrestrial phenomena? And I think that the answer is

753
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:00.599
<v Speaker 2>a definite yes.

754
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:05.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean you that's something else that comes up in

755
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:09.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these accounts, especially I mean you're you're

756
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.159
<v Speaker 1>probably aware of like the Chestnut Ridge area out in

757
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:20.199
<v Speaker 1>southwest Pennsylvania. There's so many accounts out there where it's connected. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

758
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:21.679
<v Speaker 1>mm hmm.

759
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Stan Gordon had some great stuff that people are generally

760
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:30.480
<v Speaker 2>unaware of. One of the questions is how they get around,

761
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:35.639
<v Speaker 2>and he found that there was an indication that, well,

762
00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:37.719
<v Speaker 2>there were some people who said, oh, they have a

763
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:40.440
<v Speaker 2>they have an annual get together and it's up in

764
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.519
<v Speaker 2>the Yukon, and uh, this is the Sasquatch now and

765
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:48.199
<v Speaker 2>and so the question is, well, how do they all

766
00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:53.679
<v Speaker 2>get there? And and one Native American source said, well,

767
00:55:53.719 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 2>they ride the steel snake. What the steel snake? You know? Trains? Well,

768
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Stan Gordon had had these outlier sidings from Pennsylvania or

769
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Kentucky where the Sasquatch were seen riding standing on the

770
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:24.159
<v Speaker 2>coupler in between the freight cars. Uh, traveling on trains.

771
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:32.400
<v Speaker 2>That's crazy, but it why not? You know, they they're

772
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:35.800
<v Speaker 2>they're quick, and they're agile, and and I see no

773
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:39.599
<v Speaker 2>reason they couldn't jump on the thing and save themselves

774
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.519
<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of steps. Uh. You just wonder whether

775
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:46.480
<v Speaker 2>there's ever a hobo in the box car who who

776
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:49.400
<v Speaker 2>had those Sasquatch jumped in.

777
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. It makes you wonder, like I almost want

778
00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:58.800
<v Speaker 1>to do a search to see if there's sighting accounts

779
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:03.880
<v Speaker 1>that have been taken from you know, hobos that did

780
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.679
<v Speaker 1>see a big foot, like when they were on a car.

781
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:08.840
<v Speaker 1>That would be pretty cool.

782
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things that I unearthed over

783
00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the years is that sometimes the most unassuming member of

784
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:26.400
<v Speaker 2>civilization or society is the one who has the most

785
00:57:26.599 --> 00:57:31.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, vivid story, almost as though the entities understand

786
00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:35.280
<v Speaker 2>that this person has no credibility and therefore we could

787
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:39.679
<v Speaker 2>do the foxtrot in front of them and it's just

788
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:41.400
<v Speaker 2>not going to get any traction.

789
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:46.280
<v Speaker 1>That is extremely interesting. Is there a particular example where

790
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.360
<v Speaker 1>you saw that happen?

791
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, it doesn't come to mind, but I

792
00:57:55.079 --> 00:58:02.599
<v Speaker 2>think there's a few different times when you know, somebody

793
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.000
<v Speaker 2>had a very vivid encounter who was also either underage

794
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:14.079
<v Speaker 2>or you know, no other corroborating witness, uh, not a

795
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:19.360
<v Speaker 2>person of any great credibility, So that you know, historically

796
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:23.119
<v Speaker 2>b f R has always tried to find the sightings

797
00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that that can be assigned to a person of credibility. Uh.

798
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:35.679
<v Speaker 2>And so engineers, uh, you know, train operators UH see

799
00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:41.559
<v Speaker 2>things a lot but don't always talk about them. But

800
00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:47.000
<v Speaker 2>if you can find a priest, or a airline pilot

801
00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:53.159
<v Speaker 2>or I don't know, just somebody of elevated credibility that

802
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:58.760
<v Speaker 2>strengthens their sighting. But you know, it does seem that

803
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:03.119
<v Speaker 2>the well alan in April for instance, you know, really

804
00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:10.360
<v Speaker 2>unassuming salt of the Earth folk, few semi operational cars,

805
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:15.079
<v Speaker 2>lying around, their son living on the property in a trailer.

806
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:20.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, just real Salt of the Earth types are

807
00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.920
<v Speaker 2>over and over again, the ones who seem to have

808
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:30.119
<v Speaker 2>the repeat sidings West Virginia, Oklahoma. You know, it's almost

809
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:39.199
<v Speaker 2>like they're chosen on account of their lack of credibility

810
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:41.280
<v Speaker 2>in a wider audience.

811
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:46.079
<v Speaker 1>That's really interesting in you know, it reminds me of

812
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:49.760
<v Speaker 1>those you know, I just watched again. I have a

813
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.599
<v Speaker 1>few favorite documentaries, but like in Search of Bigfoot by

814
00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Robert W. Morgan, it's the old old one filmed up

815
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.840
<v Speaker 1>in the Cougar, Washington area. But like they're you know,

816
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:04.679
<v Speaker 1>they're just talking to two loggers that had sightings and

817
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:07.039
<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff. That's what I love, you know,

818
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:10.840
<v Speaker 1>just hearing uh stories and accounts from you know, as

819
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:13.639
<v Speaker 1>you said, like Salt of the Earth people, just normal

820
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:16.039
<v Speaker 1>everyday people. That's what I That's what I love.

821
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:24.480
<v Speaker 2>But but they they're they're they're not taken very seriously

822
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:32.760
<v Speaker 2>because of their you know, country accent and uh one

823
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:38.840
<v Speaker 2>strap broken on their coverall. Uh. But but if you

824
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:43.480
<v Speaker 2>can get past all that you you you I think

825
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:50.159
<v Speaker 2>can learn some things by given people. You can learn

826
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:53.800
<v Speaker 2>you can go so much and and and talk to

827
01:00:54.079 --> 01:01:00.039
<v Speaker 2>uh uh loggers uh over a beer and and and

828
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:03.719
<v Speaker 2>they all have a story, but they all understand that

829
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:10.440
<v Speaker 2>that you know, no one wants to hear it, and

830
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:16.599
<v Speaker 2>they they don't have any particular credibility. But if if

831
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:20.280
<v Speaker 2>if you give them a chance, they'll.

832
01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:24.719
<v Speaker 1>I think that's that's a great way to put it, Tom,

833
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:28.079
<v Speaker 1>is you know, there's so many people out there that

834
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:31.159
<v Speaker 1>definitely do have something they want to share, but it's

835
01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:35.039
<v Speaker 1>just giving them the chance to to to share what

836
01:01:35.079 --> 01:01:39.880
<v Speaker 1>they've experienced. And you, Tom, has been just a fun

837
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.800
<v Speaker 1>time chatting with you. You remind me of an individual

838
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.400
<v Speaker 1>I used to talk to a lot. His name is

839
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Henry Franzoni and very similar. I mean, rest in peace,

840
01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Henry a great guy, but you are both very similar.

841
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:57.119
<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a just a fun time chatting with you.

842
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Before we we end our our talk today, is there

843
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:06.800
<v Speaker 1>anything else that you were wanting to share or is

844
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:09.400
<v Speaker 1>there a way that people can you know, reach out

845
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:12.400
<v Speaker 1>to you or you kind of a little bit, you know,

846
01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:16.920
<v Speaker 1>you you write your books and then maybe uh in

847
01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:18.039
<v Speaker 1>the shadows a little bit.

848
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I got an email and I don't

849
01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:25.679
<v Speaker 2>check it all that often. It's th h O M

850
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:30.719
<v Speaker 2>dot p O w e l L at Yahoo. So

851
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:34.039
<v Speaker 2>if someone really needed to talk to me, I guess

852
01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I would encourage them to email. Uh might take me

853
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:41.119
<v Speaker 2>a few weeks to get back to them. But I don't,

854
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:44.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, see myself as the r biter of any

855
01:02:46.719 --> 01:02:53.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, particular wisdom. All I got is a bunch

856
01:02:53.599 --> 01:03:01.639
<v Speaker 2>of statistical patterns and some sort of out their ideas

857
01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:08.599
<v Speaker 2>that seem to have fallen out of my looking for

858
01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:13.840
<v Speaker 2>patterns to the sightings. So I would say, you know,

859
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:24.440
<v Speaker 2>anybody can get to the point of leading the sort

860
01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:30.239
<v Speaker 2>of the knowledge starting by just reading books. And I

861
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:34.199
<v Speaker 2>think sometimes, I mean, it's it's fine to watch stuff

862
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:39.400
<v Speaker 2>on the internet, but it's one of those subjects that

863
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:44.519
<v Speaker 2>you just sort of have to get into book lengths

864
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:48.519
<v Speaker 2>sets of material in order to really start to put

865
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:54.360
<v Speaker 2>things together. And you know, I guess more and more

866
01:03:54.519 --> 01:04:00.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing that people rely on electronic sources of information

867
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:06.559
<v Speaker 2>and uh, and the books get pushed aside. But I mean,

868
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:10.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not just hawking my own books, but just reading

869
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:13.320
<v Speaker 2>the literature that's out there. There's so much of it.

870
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:16.960
<v Speaker 2>There's that this guy Chris Noel up in Vermont, and

871
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:23.760
<v Speaker 2>he's really come into some really interesting things. And his

872
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:27.360
<v Speaker 2>analysis of the path of the of the data suggests

873
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:32.679
<v Speaker 2>that there they show indications of being a savant and

874
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:37.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, extremely aware of of of details and they

875
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:40.000
<v Speaker 2>can walk into a woods and and notice the one

876
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.440
<v Speaker 2>thing that has been moved since the last time that

877
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:47.119
<v Speaker 2>they were there. Uh So his work is really interesting.

878
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:51.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to think of who else. Well, you you know,

879
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:58.480
<v Speaker 2>you got Joe's one the Bigfoot Highway. That's he he

880
01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:03.880
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really he just reports and and that's kind of

881
01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:06.920
<v Speaker 2>the way John Green and all these guys did for

882
01:05:07.039 --> 01:05:13.800
<v Speaker 2>all this time. But I think more and more I'm

883
01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:16.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of of the feeling that, at least with my

884
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:21.559
<v Speaker 2>own books, that you know, you can't just report, you

885
01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:29.559
<v Speaker 2>have to speculate, because you know, that's sort of how

886
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:32.840
<v Speaker 2>we advance the knowledge.

887
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I think that's that's a great way to put it.

888
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:42.800
<v Speaker 1>So guys, make sure you if you're interested by what

889
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:46.400
<v Speaker 1>you've heard tonight check out the Planet Strange book by

890
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Tom Powell. You can get it on is the best

891
01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:51.320
<v Speaker 1>way to get it on Amazon, Tom? Or is there

892
01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:51.960
<v Speaker 1>another way?

893
01:05:52.039 --> 01:05:55.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, none of us want to give Jeff Bezos

894
01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:59.599
<v Speaker 2>any more money, but does a good job. But but

895
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:04.599
<v Speaker 2>Edges of Science was my third one, and it's really

896
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:07.800
<v Speaker 2>where I first started to go round the bend and

897
01:06:07.880 --> 01:06:12.400
<v Speaker 2>speculate as to how these things had. You know, for instance,

898
01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:16.400
<v Speaker 2>the chapter on communication it is in Edges of Science

899
01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:18.920
<v Speaker 2>was originally going to be in the Locals. It was

900
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the thirteenth chapter, and in two thousand and two or

901
01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:27.599
<v Speaker 2>whenever it was, I had some people proof for it

902
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:30.519
<v Speaker 2>and they said, ah, man, I think you should get

903
01:06:30.559 --> 01:06:35.199
<v Speaker 2>that chapter out of there. It's just too much. And

904
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.079
<v Speaker 2>one of my proof readers said, why don't you have

905
01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:43.519
<v Speaker 2>that be the first chapter of your next book, because

906
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:46.039
<v Speaker 2>you're really you're going way out on a limb with

907
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:51.760
<v Speaker 2>this idea that you can communicate with these creatures. And

908
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:56.119
<v Speaker 2>so I took their advice, and obviously in retrospect it

909
01:06:56.199 --> 01:07:00.599
<v Speaker 2>was maybe a little bit, but it did up being

910
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.480
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of of then what ended up being the

911
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:09.360
<v Speaker 2>next book, which was Edges of Science. But the one

912
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.920
<v Speaker 2>that's lost in there is the novel and and that's

913
01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:17.519
<v Speaker 2>called Shady Neighbors, And it doesn't necessarily advance the knowledge,

914
01:07:17.559 --> 01:07:22.519
<v Speaker 2>but it's a it's a cute story, that is, you know,

915
01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:25.199
<v Speaker 2>I wrote as a sort of a family friendly but

916
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:31.320
<v Speaker 2>still edgy, kind of a Sasquatch treatment. And I was

917
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:34.159
<v Speaker 2>working at the middle school of course at the time,

918
01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:38.760
<v Speaker 2>and so I I wanted to write something that you know,

919
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:45.239
<v Speaker 2>teenage audience could read and and you know, get something

920
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:47.559
<v Speaker 2>out of very cool.

921
01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:52.079
<v Speaker 1>So it sounds like something for for everyone to check

922
01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:56.039
<v Speaker 1>out from from the books that you've written so far, Tom,

923
01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:59.000
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, we will will definitely be uh you know,

924
01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:01.280
<v Speaker 1>keeping an eye on it. Sounds like you'll be in

925
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:05.320
<v Speaker 1>some some things in the future. Which will be.

926
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Next appearance is this one? This event they do in

927
01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:11.679
<v Speaker 2>Hocking Hills, Ohio.

928
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh cool, you're going out for that? Yeah?

929
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and that's in August. I don't do the

930
01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:23.439
<v Speaker 2>appearances as much as I used to. But that's just

931
01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:33.680
<v Speaker 2>because you know, I got exhausted and it's uh yeah,

932
01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:35.760
<v Speaker 2>my wife busy remodeling.

933
01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:39.720
<v Speaker 1>There you go, I get it. Yeah, But Tom, thank

934
01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:44.199
<v Speaker 1>you for spending some time tonight talking about you know,

935
01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:48.479
<v Speaker 1>your your past work and experiences and also about your books.

936
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:52.239
<v Speaker 1>And it's been a fun time chatting. Thank you so much.

937
01:08:53.479 --> 01:08:54.359
<v Speaker 2>You're so welcome.

938
01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:57.680
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to take a few minutes to say

939
01:08:57.720 --> 01:09:01.600
<v Speaker 1>thank you to you. Holmand. Listeners or listening to the podcast,

940
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:05.239
<v Speaker 1>please take a minute to help out the show by

941
01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:08.880
<v Speaker 1>subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so

942
01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:12.439
<v Speaker 1>you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on

943
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:15.479
<v Speaker 1>YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us

944
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:18.720
<v Speaker 1>on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that

945
01:09:18.760 --> 01:09:23.000
<v Speaker 1>you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's

946
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:26.199
<v Speaker 1>all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've

947
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:29.119
<v Speaker 1>had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know

948
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:33.359
<v Speaker 1>someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot

949
01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email.

950
01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:42.399
<v Speaker 1>Here's the list. The Subtle Lake area of Oregon, Rainbow Oregon,

951
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:48.079
<v Speaker 1>McKinsey Bridge area, Sweet Home, pretty much that entire area,

952
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the north part. If you get what I mean. I'll

953
01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:55.399
<v Speaker 1>see you back next time. Listeners. SASA Summerfest this year

954
01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:58.640
<v Speaker 1>July eleventh through the twelfth. It's going to be fantastic.

955
01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Eleventh through twelve in Greenwaters Park and Oakridge, Oregon. And listeners.

956
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:08.079
<v Speaker 1>If you're going to go, you can get a two

957
01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:11.000
<v Speaker 1>day ticket for the cost of one if you use

958
01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:16.680
<v Speaker 1>the code b f S like Bigfoot Society, but BFS

959
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'll get used some off your cost. Priscilla wasn't

960
01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:24.239
<v Speaker 1>nice enough to provide that for my listeners. So there

961
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:25.840
<v Speaker 1>you go. I look forward to seeing you there, so

962
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:29.279
<v Speaker 1>make sure you head over to www dot Sasquatch Summerfest

963
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:31.560
<v Speaker 1>dot com and pick up your tickets today