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Speaker 1: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 1: written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 1: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 1: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 1: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 2: Good Evening. In nineteen sixty eight, a budding New York
Speaker 2: City entrepreneur who provided immigrants with jobs takes a floridification
Speaker 2: with his family. Meanwhile, his relative and employee is murdered
Speaker 2: on Long Island. Upon returning to New York, Sam Summer
Speaker 2: learns the fate of his wife's uncle, Irving Silver, when
Speaker 2: he doesn't show up to carpool to work. Three days
Speaker 2: passed with no clues about his death. Then a recent
Speaker 2: contractor at Sam's deli sets up a meeting to share
Speaker 2: news on the investigation. Within moments after pulling into a
Speaker 2: doughnut shop parking lot to meet, Sam is kidnapped by
Speaker 2: detectives with the engine still running. While held in custody,
Speaker 2: he is beaten and allegedly confesses to the murder. Court
Speaker 2: proceedings amount to do overs. A pellet victories and overturns
Speaker 2: and mysterious documents. Sam Is found guilty of murder in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one with short Order, within short order, his
Speaker 2: case is highlighted in college law courses. After surviving years
Speaker 2: of power hungry guards and moving often from prison to
Speaker 2: prison for good behavior, Sam is really at least on
Speaker 2: parole in nineteen ninety one. Justice continued to railroad him
Speaker 2: until twenty fifteen when he finds an eerie document in
Speaker 2: the police archives that proves his innocence. That discovery triggered
Speaker 2: the reopening of the case and free legal assistance. What
Speaker 2: will the momentous turn of events bring next? The book
Speaker 2: they were featuring this evening is Railroaded Frame for Murder,
Speaker 2: Fighting for Justice, with my special guest, PR pro and
Speaker 2: author Christopher Jossert. Welcome to the program, and thank you
Speaker 2: very much for agreeing to this interview. Christopher Jossart.
Speaker 3: Yes, Dan, thank you for having me on blog talk radio.
Speaker 2: It's a pleasure, Thank you very much. I just got
Speaker 2: to make one correction. We're now on spreaker despite that
Speaker 2: little blog talk radio at the beginning.
Speaker 3: H Yes, no problem, here we go.
Speaker 2: Formerly btr so I want to ask you right off,
Speaker 2: how did you come to be the author of this
Speaker 2: How did you come around to deciding to write this book?
Speaker 2: How did you be in a position to write this book?
Speaker 3: Railroaded this whole separate story in its own right, Dan,
Speaker 3: and I don't want to take up too much time
Speaker 3: on it, but it is a rather unique opportunity for me.
Speaker 3: It was a divine moment totally so over here in Wisconsin,
Speaker 3: I've been a public relations professional for twenty seven years,
Speaker 3: do a lot of writing work with a lot of
Speaker 3: media long story short. There is a public safety training
Speaker 3: center here in Appleton, Wisconsin, probably one of the best
Speaker 3: in the nation. It's an eighty acre facility that trains
Speaker 3: the FBI, the Department of Justice, and so forth. There
Speaker 3: was a crime Writer's Academy that was held here in
Speaker 3: two thousand and fifteen, which was pretty cool. We had
Speaker 3: a bunch of probably between one hundred and fifty and
Speaker 3: two hundred, mostly fiction crime writers who gathered here in Appleton, Wisconsin,
Speaker 3: which is just south of Green Bay for your listeners
Speaker 3: in the sense of geography. At that event, Karen Slaughter,
Speaker 3: which I'm sure you know very well, one of the
Speaker 3: best fiction crime writers around. She happened to beat a
Speaker 3: keynote address main speaker at this function. So I get
Speaker 3: a call, simply because of my role at the college,
Speaker 3: from a publicist of hers in downtown New York simply
Speaker 3: asking me if I would help get miss Slaughter on
Speaker 3: some regional media to help promote her new book. Well,
Speaker 3: it's what I do in my profession anyway, Dan, So
Speaker 3: it was a natural fit I met Miss Slaughter. It
Speaker 3: was a great experience. Long story short again, I'll just
Speaker 3: push fast forward here. As a result of that event,
Speaker 3: the publicist in New York called to thank me, and
Speaker 3: she asked me the loaded question, is there anything I
Speaker 3: can ever do for you? Well, and I've been writing
Speaker 3: for many, many years, published articles internationally, I've done a
Speaker 3: few books here and there, and I just said, hey,
Speaker 3: look in a network with anyone in New York. Do
Speaker 3: you have any connections that you can share with me.
Speaker 3: Here's the divine moment. This publicist knew a friend who
Speaker 3: actually employed in a very small office, the great granddaughter
Speaker 3: of a gentleman who was wrongfully convicted of murder in
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight and was looking for a writer to
Speaker 3: tell his story. And that's how the whole thing started.
Speaker 3: Pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, let's talk about before we get to the
Speaker 2: actual date in question. Yes, yes, May twenty second second,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight. Take us back to the origins of
Speaker 2: Samuel Summer and his background, which is very important to
Speaker 2: this story, his work background, his family background, and take
Speaker 2: us up to where he meets his soulmate Elaine.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you bet, Dan, And on that note, one of
Speaker 3: the things that we discovered in looking into mister Summer's
Speaker 3: story was that he was not your typical victim or
Speaker 3: accused victim of a hate crime. Touch based on that
Speaker 3: a little bit later, with all due respect to people
Speaker 3: who have to go through that whole judicial process of wrongdoing,
Speaker 3: but a lot of the hate crimes today, Dan, that
Speaker 3: are poor trade often shed light on people who live,
Speaker 3: you know, underprivileged, underserved lives. I get it. You know,
Speaker 3: there may be living in a ghetto area, they may
Speaker 3: be targets of unfair you know, judicial practices by law
Speaker 3: enforcement and so forth. Mister Summer was completely different. So
Speaker 3: he grew up in the South Bronx, hardworking middle class
Speaker 3: family that was in the garment industry in New York
Speaker 3: in the nineteen forties and fifties Jewish American family. Mister
Speaker 3: Summer lands a job when he's sixteen years old in
Speaker 3: high school, and the job was so fast paced, so moving,
Speaker 3: and put him on a road to success at such
Speaker 3: a young age. He ended up dropping out of high
Speaker 3: school to deliver meats and various dairy goods around the
Speaker 3: big city for a couple of companies. And mind you
Speaker 3: back in that time in the nineteen fifties in New York,
Speaker 3: there were a lot of new things coming into play.
Speaker 3: Delicatessens for one. I know that cats is in downtown
Speaker 3: New York, which is still there from the fifties, was
Speaker 3: a little part of this book. Mister Summer became an
Speaker 3: instant entrepreneur at a young age. What he did by
Speaker 3: the time he was even nineteen twenty years old, as
Speaker 3: he was already looking at owning his own business. And
Speaker 3: he was the first kosher deli to ever be put
Speaker 3: up in Long Island, was put up in Comac. It
Speaker 3: was called Rosens, and I believe that was put in
Speaker 3: the play in nineteen sixty five, while he was growing
Speaker 3: a young family with his wife e Lane, who he
Speaker 3: happened to meet in an old pool hall setting in
Speaker 3: the South Bronx. She came from the quote unquote other
Speaker 3: side of the tracks, a little bit more of an
Speaker 3: upper class upbringing for Elane, and so they're growing this
Speaker 3: large family and just trying to make ends meet, get
Speaker 3: getting these businesses off the ground in terms of delicatessens
Speaker 3: and the wholesale food services. A little side note too
Speaker 3: to his business. When he was in his late twenties,
Speaker 3: mister Summer was already introducing catering, if you will, in
Speaker 3: the areas of healthcare and education throughout New York and
Speaker 3: parts of New Jersey. So by the time he was thirty,
Speaker 3: he was making in the neighborhood of one hundred and
Speaker 3: he was making what equivalent would be today about one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 3: He was making that in cash at that time. And
Speaker 3: he was a very giving man, very much an innovator.
Speaker 3: He loved employing immigrants in the Greater New York area
Speaker 3: to give them a shot at the American dream. So
Speaker 3: he was really quite a community man, quite a family man,
Speaker 3: and very important part of New York City's food service
Speaker 3: industry and the economic vitality that was attached to that
Speaker 3: at the time.
Speaker 2: As you write in the book, you tell us give
Speaker 2: us a historic background as well about law enforcement and
Speaker 2: how it had been mired in corruption and scandal at
Speaker 2: various times. But you also talk about the role of
Speaker 2: the mafioso in certain industries in New York and basically
Speaker 2: their grasp entered into all kinds of industries like the
Speaker 2: garment industry. Tell us a little bit about the reality
Speaker 2: of the mafioso in New York and in its effect
Speaker 2: in industry at that time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan, it was prevalent. You know, back in that
Speaker 3: time we're talking again, you know, fifties sixties, when a
Speaker 3: lot of different markets were trying to identify themselves in
Speaker 3: the Big Apple you mentioned the garment industry, and then
Speaker 3: food service kind of took off, and a lot of
Speaker 3: things were happening right there in that central hub Manhattan, Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: the Bronx, but not a lot was happening out on
Speaker 3: Long Island. Mister Summer was able to work closely with
Speaker 3: some people down in the Manhattan and the Brooklyn and
Speaker 3: Bronx areas to store some of his vehicles that he
Speaker 3: he died, to make his deliveries and got kind of
Speaker 3: caught up. He admits, he got kind of caught up
Speaker 3: in being educated, if you will, by the street very quickly.
Speaker 3: When we talk about the mafia back then, the karting
Speaker 3: industry better known as the garbage collection industry, was just
Speaker 3: booming back then, and mister Summer was a well respected businessman,
Speaker 3: and I know that he was approached on a couple
Speaker 3: of occasions by members of the mafia to offer some
Speaker 3: business planning, business strategy, if you will, to expand the
Speaker 3: karting industry to Long Island. Mister Summer said that he
Speaker 3: would be more than happy to and he did. He
Speaker 3: acquiesced to help with the business expansion, but he had
Speaker 3: nothing to do with any of the money. He just
Speaker 3: simply didn't want to deal with it. At the same time,
Speaker 3: and this is an important part of the story. Mister
Speaker 3: Summer's wife, Elaine, her relative, her uncle, a gentleman by
Speaker 3: the name of Irving Silver, who is the deceased subject
Speaker 3: matter of the book. He was going through some difficult
Speaker 3: times in his late fifties. His wife was suffering from
Speaker 3: an illness, and he was trying to control his son,
Speaker 3: Ronnie Silver, who sadly got caught up in the street,
Speaker 3: he got caught up with a lot of the mobster activities.
Speaker 3: Gambling was a big problem that he had. Mister Silver
Speaker 3: was basically kind of down and out when he lost
Speaker 3: his wife Janette in the late sixties. And so Sam,
Speaker 3: mister Summer took mister Silver on to help turn his
Speaker 3: life around by being involved in the food wholesale business
Speaker 3: and the delicatessen businesses that he was enterprising at the time.
Speaker 3: And that's an important part of the story because we'll
Speaker 3: find out that mister Silver was never really able to
Speaker 3: let go of the street that got control of him.
Speaker 3: And you know, you mentioned law enforcement, Dan, what's interesting
Speaker 3: in the movie Cerproco. I think we all remember that
Speaker 3: one portrayed with the corruption of the downtown New York
Speaker 3: City police force and certain precincts, played of course by
Speaker 3: Al Pacino in the Blockbuster movie. What's interesting about that
Speaker 3: that was pretty much going on right around the same
Speaker 3: time that the law enforcement is in Suffolk County, which
Speaker 3: is one of the two main counties in Long Island,
Speaker 3: of course, started to become corrupt. So you know, it's
Speaker 3: hard to pinpoint Dan, really when you try to connect
Speaker 3: all these dots with the mafioso and the law enforcement.
Speaker 3: Who's Greef and who's Palm at the time. But it's
Speaker 3: strikingly similar that everything that was portrayed back then was
Speaker 3: really happening to mister Summer. He was kind of like
Speaker 3: right in the middle of it, and while he was
Speaker 3: growing an empire. Sadly he got kidnapped, he got the
Speaker 3: rug just pulled completely out from him. And we could
Speaker 3: talk about that next.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about this Harold Goberman and his alias
Speaker 2: as Masterson. Let's talk about the circumstances in which Goberman
Speaker 2: made Sam and the business that is proposed between them,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so, Harold Goberman went through, I went with
Speaker 3: an alias name. This is a guy who was let
Speaker 3: in or out of prison on numerous occasions, who's convicted felon.
Speaker 3: Turns out that he became an informant for the Suffolk
Speaker 3: County Police Department. We don't specifically know when, but we
Speaker 3: do know based on court documents that it was at
Speaker 3: least in sixty eight or sixty nine because it came
Speaker 3: through in the Huntly hearing that mister Summer ended up winning.
Speaker 3: We could touch base on that in a moment. But
Speaker 3: Harold Goberman tragically was caught up not only with the
Speaker 3: informant role, whether that was legitimate or illegitimate, but he
Speaker 3: had ties to the mafia and he wanted to become
Speaker 3: involved with mister Summer's business. And ironically, mister summ goes
Speaker 3: on a vacation in spring of sixty eight with his
Speaker 3: young family to Florida leaves the business in the hands
Speaker 3: of Irving Silver, his relative and mister Summer at the
Speaker 3: time looked at it as a wonderful, growing opportunity for
Speaker 3: Irving Silver to gain some independence because he had gone
Speaker 3: through losing his wife, he had gone through some troubles
Speaker 3: on the street with his son. Here's what happens. While
Speaker 3: Sam Summer is vacationing in Florida, mister Silver loans Harold
Speaker 3: Goberman five thousand dollars of Summer's money without Summer knowing
Speaker 3: about it. Two days after he loans Goberman the money,
Speaker 3: Goberman pays Silver back, the check bounces. Silver goes to
Speaker 3: the second Precinct in Suffolk County to report the incident
Speaker 3: on or around May fifteenth of nineteen sixty eight. Two
Speaker 3: days later, Silver is found dead in a ditch off
Speaker 3: of Wheatley Road near Melville. So that's what started this
Speaker 3: whole string of what we call a very odd series
Speaker 3: of events that took place during the week of May seventeenth,
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, when Silver was found killed.
Speaker 2: You say that Sam and his family run a vacation
Speaker 2: in Florida. Correct, what does he do? He cuts that vacation,
Speaker 2: He cuts it short and leaves his family back there.
Speaker 3: Why is that what has Because yep, yep, absolutely. Sam
Speaker 3: came back to New York around May fifteenth, two days
Speaker 3: before mister Silver was killed. I believe he flew in
Speaker 3: that night and he spent the following day with his relative,
Speaker 3: his family member, his business partner. Because Silver was nervous
Speaker 3: about the whole transaction that he did without Sam's permission
Speaker 3: with Thom Goberman. He wanted to come clean and he
Speaker 3: felt scared. He felt scared for his life. So Sam
Speaker 3: came back and Sam basically assured him, you know what,
Speaker 3: this will all work out. Why don't we just resume
Speaker 3: work the next day. He had all the intentions of
Speaker 3: flying back to Florida and finishing his vacation. So they
Speaker 3: were going to resume work for one more day and
Speaker 3: just get kind of caught up on things. The morning
Speaker 3: of May seventeenth, which was a Friday, and mister Summer
Speaker 3: never met I'm sorry, mister Silver never met Sam Summer
Speaker 3: for their morning carpool, which is something that they did
Speaker 3: as a tradition together. And that's when a few hours
Speaker 3: later on that day, Sam discovers from Irving Silver's son,
Speaker 3: Ronnie remember the one that had the gambling problems and
Speaker 3: was caught up in the mob, that Irving was dead.
Speaker 2: What else does he tell him in terms of the
Speaker 2: circumstances surrounding his father's death.
Speaker 3: Strange, strange set of circumstances. Ronnie Silver actually changes the
Speaker 3: story on a couple of occasions, plays a little bit
Speaker 3: of what we call cat and mouse game with Sam Summer.
Speaker 3: That morning, obviously, Sam is worried his business partner doesn't
Speaker 3: show up, so he starts calling his house over near
Speaker 3: Kew Gardens. Finally gets a hold of Ronnie Silver, who
Speaker 3: at first really didn't know what to tell Sam, and
Speaker 3: then he later shortly thereafter discloses to Sam that he
Speaker 3: can't find his dad. His dad is missing, and then
Speaker 3: he within that same morning they connect again on the
Speaker 3: telephone and he says to Sam that his dad is killed.
Speaker 3: So just coming from a son, an immediate family member
Speaker 3: like that, it was just very very strange when all
Speaker 3: that happened. Later on we learned we find out that,
Speaker 3: you know, Ronnie Silver takes the stand during a murder
Speaker 3: Trialut I mean to get ahead here, and really kind
Speaker 3: of more or less wore the hat of a no
Speaker 3: contest kind of feedback during that whole trial situation. But
Speaker 3: that here's what happened as a result of that whole
Speaker 3: kind of fishy disclosure from the Sun about his own father.
Speaker 3: That made Sam really just kind of roll up his
Speaker 3: sleeves and want to help get to the bottom of
Speaker 3: what happened. Now, obviously he knew about Goberman because that's
Speaker 3: why he came back from Florida. Silver had told him
Speaker 3: about that. So Sam was going to work with the
Speaker 3: police to look into Goberman, not in his own That's
Speaker 3: an important part of the story. Sam already knew Goberman.
Speaker 3: Goberman had done some side jobs for a few of
Speaker 3: his businesses leading up to the floridification. He had repaired
Speaker 3: some light fixtures here and there. So Sam was just
Speaker 3: trying to give the guy a second chance at life
Speaker 3: from being in and out of prison based on trusting Silver.
Speaker 3: But Sam knew better not to go after Goberman about
Speaker 3: this whole Silver thing, so he was trying to work
Speaker 3: with the police as to what was going on. And
Speaker 3: you know what's really kind of odd from the get
Speaker 3: go too, and this all seems to make sense later
Speaker 3: on when we find these documents. The police really were
Speaker 3: somewhat un sponsor that first when Sam called, but then
Speaker 3: on a quick turnaround in the same day, they called
Speaker 3: Sam in for questioning. First they wanted him to identify
Speaker 3: the body, and then they engage in a series of
Speaker 3: questions that kind of insinuated that maybe he was the
Speaker 3: one who killed Irving, and Sam really didn't appreciate that.
Speaker 3: So there was this kind of this rough, tough attitude
Speaker 3: that Suffolk County was looking at Sam right away on
Speaker 3: that seventeenth of May when Silver was found, but they
Speaker 3: really didn't say he was a suspect. Then there was
Speaker 3: a quick turnaround on a funeral due to Jewish tradition,
Speaker 3: and then a few days goes by and we get
Speaker 3: to a kidnapping that happens on May twenty second.
Speaker 2: Let's not forget that. There's a He talks to police
Speaker 2: and then says, I will come down and talk to
Speaker 2: you later. I have this important thing to do. Yes,
Speaker 2: he doesn't do it. Why why?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, sorry to miss that detail. So what Sam
Speaker 3: decided to do He had made an arrangement after the
Speaker 3: Suffatunty detectives went and visited him at his office and
Speaker 3: he made an arrangement to go back down and meet
Speaker 3: with them later that day. Sam did not follow up
Speaker 3: on that request because he wanted to do it at
Speaker 3: a later time after he told his family out of
Speaker 3: respect to e Lane what happened. She had not known
Speaker 3: what happened to her relative yet and he wanted to
Speaker 3: notify the family first. But then he offered to talk
Speaker 3: to the Suffolk County Detectives again at another time, and that,
Speaker 3: from a scheduling standpoint of formality, did not happen. So
Speaker 3: we're talking about that weekend eighteenth, nineteenth Saturday Sunday twentieth
Speaker 3: twenty first, twenty second, which leads up to the next
Speaker 3: time he had an encounter with the police.
Speaker 2: Let's go to that. You say it's around eight o'clock
Speaker 2: May twenty second, nineteen sixty eight. But take us a
Speaker 2: little bit before that to the phone call and the
Speaker 2: lanes reaction and the conversation, and then who does he
Speaker 2: get the call from? And where does he go to meet?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the evening of May twenty second. Again, Now we
Speaker 3: have to, you know, just kind of do our best here.
Speaker 3: This happened so long ago, obviously, and mister Summer's eighty
Speaker 3: three today. His wife has to see she passed a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. Let's just try to put ourselves
Speaker 3: in the shoes of the emotions that are going on
Speaker 3: with this family. Elaine is beside herself, her uncle's gone.
Speaker 3: There's no answer. There's not even an investigation into anyone else.
Speaker 3: There's no information shared with the Summer or Silver families
Speaker 3: since they talked to Sam identifying the body and meeting
Speaker 3: them at his office back on the seventeenth. There's really
Speaker 3: nothing in between there, Dan, So what's going on? You know,
Speaker 3: where are they at? Are they looking at anybody else?
Speaker 3: What about Goberman? Well, here's the eerie part. What about Goberman.
Speaker 3: It's dinner time, the evening of May twenty second, Wednesday,
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, and the Summer household gets a phone
Speaker 3: call who is it. It's Harold Goberman and this was
Speaker 3: all brought up in that first appellate hearing, which mister
Speaker 3: Summer won, So this is not something that was a
Speaker 3: he said. She said. He gets a call from Harold
Speaker 3: Golberman who says, basically, look, Sam, I got information on
Speaker 3: what happened to Irving Silver. Can you meet me tonight.
Speaker 3: I'll talk to you bout it over at dunkin Donuts.
Speaker 3: This is in Colemac and the dunkin Donuts still stands today.
Speaker 3: It's only literally four blocks from Sam's house. At the time,
Speaker 3: Sam is shaking, you know, he's when he's talking to
Speaker 3: Goberman and he basically runs this by Elaine, who would
Speaker 3: have nothing to do with this. It just smelled fishy
Speaker 3: from the get go. But Sam decided to go meet
Speaker 3: with Goberman because they needed some information. They had nothing,
Speaker 3: so Sam makes an arrangement with his wife and another couple.
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Speaker 3: Lane necessarily idily wherever I lost the terms the conditions
Speaker 3: eighteen plus that Sam wasn't back from dunkin Donuts again
Speaker 3: four blocks away in a certain time parameter twenty thirty minutes.
Speaker 3: Could they please come and check on him? Smart thing
Speaker 3: for him to do. So he takes this gargantuan German
Speaker 3: shepherd dog that they had at the time, puts him
Speaker 3: in the back seat of a station wagon, probably for
Speaker 3: some form of security, and drives over to Dunkin Donuts.
Speaker 3: This is absolutely mind boggling. And I was just out
Speaker 3: in Long Island from Wisconsin less about a month and
Speaker 3: a half ago, and I reenacted this crime scene. Sam
Speaker 3: pulls into Dunkin Donuts and as far as I know,
Speaker 3: over all these years, I don't think the parking lot
Speaker 3: has been renovated. Obviously things have changed around the building,
Speaker 3: and the building has been renovated, but it's a very
Speaker 3: thin parking lot. He pulls into the parking lot on
Speaker 3: that on that evening, sun's going down but still out,
Speaker 3: and the three detectives well dressed. He didn't know they
Speaker 3: were detectives. Okay, three well dressed men approaching his car
Speaker 3: right at him before he can even turn into a
Speaker 3: parking stall. So he stops in the middle of this
Speaker 3: parking lot and they start yelling summer summer. These complete strangers,
Speaker 3: Worre's Goberman. Goberman is nowhere to be found. Nowhere. Three
Speaker 3: people come. They basically kidnap Sam. His car is found
Speaker 3: fifteen twenty minutes later from his family and another police
Speaker 3: officer and that couple of the Cerronis. His door on
Speaker 3: his car was still a jar, the engine was still running.
Speaker 3: These people didn't even turn the engine off. These you
Speaker 3: and I know their detectives. He didn't know what was
Speaker 3: going on at the time, and his dog was going
Speaker 3: berserk in the backseat of the car, so he's literally yanked.
Speaker 3: By the time he's dragged across the lot and put
Speaker 3: into a detective car, he knows they're detectives. By that time,
Speaker 3: there were some witnesses from the donut shop. There were
Speaker 3: a group of teenagers and apparently the manager on duty
Speaker 3: that Sam's Wifey Lane, and the couple and the police
Speaker 3: officer were able to talk to. But in another mysterious
Speaker 3: set of circumstances, when the detective, the police officer on
Speaker 3: the scene claims that he calls down to the fourth
Speaker 3: Precinct Homicide in Suffolk County. There really was this exchange
Speaker 3: of I don't know what has happened, You'll have to
Speaker 3: file a missing person's report. It just smelled too fishy
Speaker 3: from that time with his wife and the couple, they
Speaker 3: obviously knew something was wrong. A car was running. Now,
Speaker 3: a missing person's report is fine and dandy, but there
Speaker 3: was a little more sense of urgency obviously with the family.
Speaker 3: And so he's taken down to Fourth Precinct and what
Speaker 3: happens to him, unbeknownst to anyone else, is he's brought
Speaker 3: into an interrogation room by these three detectives and he
Speaker 3: has beaten repeatedly with phone books trying to get a
Speaker 3: signed confession. The murder of Irving Silver.
Speaker 2: Now you talk about Elaine and the couple. The surrounds
Speaker 2: and they're asking for answers, but they do here by
Speaker 2: their persistence, Elaine's persistence, especially that they now believe that
Speaker 2: he's in the building. What does Elaine do This is
Speaker 2: a very dramatic scene. What do they do when they
Speaker 2: learn and he may be in that building being held?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they eventually when I say they, I'm talking about
Speaker 3: Elaine and the couple, they eventually get their way over
Speaker 3: to the fourth Precinct, still not having any idea where
Speaker 3: Sam is and where her husband is because they're going
Speaker 3: there under the premise to fill out a missing person's report.
Speaker 3: What's really fascinating is that Phil Serrone, from the couple
Speaker 3: that joined him joined Elaine down there, actually run to
Speaker 3: a guy he knows because of his work in DJ
Speaker 3: you know, they kind of cross paths with law enforcement.
Speaker 3: Obviously finds out that the person he runs into in
Speaker 3: the lobby of the fourth Precinct slip up a slip
Speaker 3: of the tongue, basically insinuating that mister Summer was in
Speaker 3: the building and he felt bad he shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3: That sends Elaine into a whirlwind, demanding with the desk
Speaker 3: clerk to talk to her husband. The desk clerk, you know,
Speaker 3: I wasn't there, Dan. I don't know if he was
Speaker 3: buying time, or if he didn't know what was up,
Speaker 3: or if he was just you know, told ahead of time,
Speaker 3: don't say anything. We don't really know that. We just
Speaker 3: know that Elaine was on a mission to see her husband,
Speaker 3: and she goes to the lower level of that building
Speaker 3: and is stopped by other members for this authorized personnel
Speaker 3: only be on that point, and she is told to
Speaker 3: go back up back to the desk, where she eventually
Speaker 3: finds out he's there, but she can't talk to him
Speaker 3: at that time. They sent her home with the seronies
Speaker 3: and long story short again just based on our time
Speaker 3: here today, because there's a lot of years to cover.
Speaker 3: Yet the very next day there's an arraignment schedule that
Speaker 3: quickly for the charge of murder with Sam. But meanwhile
Speaker 3: through the night he's taken way over to the eastern
Speaker 3: end of Long Island and he's kind of passed up
Speaker 3: a little bit because he was he was beaten enough
Speaker 3: where there's a mug shot in the book that shows
Speaker 3: that his left eye was closed. Incidentally, the mugshot piece
Speaker 3: of evidence comes up later in the early eighties that
Speaker 3: there was a second mugshot that was covered up and concealed.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to go down a rabbit trail with
Speaker 3: your listeners right now, but I had to just kind
Speaker 3: of throw that in there. So with the arraignment, the
Speaker 3: Circus Act of court proceedings ensues. And we've done a
Speaker 3: lot of research on this. That's why it took about
Speaker 3: almost four years to write this book.
Speaker 2: Now you talk about we just talked a little bit
Speaker 2: about this beating, but you go into big description because
Speaker 2: obviously Sam tells you all about it afterwards. Yes, and yes,
Speaker 2: what is the what are the beatings entail? But also
Speaker 2: what are they asking him? What are they telling him?
Speaker 2: What are they saying to him?
Speaker 3: They're basically saying, you are going to sign this confession.
Speaker 3: In so many words, thug like behavior. He's going back
Speaker 3: and forth denying he did this. They keep beating him.
Speaker 3: They beat him so bad to the point where he
Speaker 3: was strip naked. He was strip naked, and there was
Speaker 3: actually a pretty decent beating on his stomach too, because
Speaker 3: later on the court documents proved that he had discoloration
Speaker 3: a yellow color on his stomach. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: it turned ugly. It turned ugly in a hurry. And
Speaker 3: of course the officers, and I think probably one of
Speaker 3: the biggest mistakes they made from the get go on
Speaker 3: this thing Dan, is that they totally denied, almost to
Speaker 3: the one hundred degree of doing any kind of physical
Speaker 3: beating to him at all, when they, you know, hindsight
Speaker 3: is twenty twenty, probably would have been better off saying, yeah,
Speaker 3: they roughed them up a little bit, but no, he
Speaker 3: was at one time curled up on a ball on
Speaker 3: the floor naked.
Speaker 2: Now obviously he's arrain he has to get a representation.
Speaker 2: Who steps forward, who does he pick? And how do
Speaker 2: they proceed with getting information from first discovery but just
Speaker 2: trying to find out what really happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gentleman by the name of gentleman by the name
Speaker 3: of Eugene Lamb. Lamb, just like the animal had a
Speaker 3: private practice over near Q Gardens. He comes into play
Speaker 3: based on a referral from someone Sam knew in the
Speaker 3: private detective industry, so the referral seemed pretty legitimate. Eugene
Speaker 3: Lamb comes into play. But here's where the whole thing
Speaker 3: just unravels. And I can't wait to pull the curtain
Speaker 3: for your listeners later to find out to share with
Speaker 3: them what we really found out all these years later.
Speaker 3: But the arraignment on May twenty third, number one, there
Speaker 3: was no indictment paperwork for Sam's arrest. Now at the time,
Speaker 3: no one really knew that was going on. At the time.
Speaker 3: The judge for that arraignment in Comac on May twenty
Speaker 3: third did reference the appearance of mister Summer and before
Speaker 3: that arraignment could officially be completed, the judge wanted to
Speaker 3: order what's called a Huntly hearing, and it's unique to
Speaker 3: the state of New York only, and it's a special
Speaker 3: hearing that is supposed to focus on the voluntariness of
Speaker 3: a confession and the method in which someone is arrested
Speaker 3: aka mostly Miranda rights. So because of mister Summer's appearance,
Speaker 3: this arraignment was actually pushed back a day. And I
Speaker 3: based on what mister Summer has told me and based
Speaker 3: on his recollection that there wasn't even an indictment presented
Speaker 3: on that day. The judge put all this into consideration
Speaker 3: ordered to Huntly hearing. Now, the Huntly hearing didn't take
Speaker 3: place right away. It took place in nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 3: This was May of sixty eight, but the arraignment got
Speaker 3: postponed until the twenty fourth. And apparently during that arraignment
Speaker 3: the count or the prosecution at a very peculiar time
Speaker 3: in this proceeding runs in the back of the courtroom
Speaker 3: with an arraignment. Here's some research I did recently through
Speaker 3: Stonybrook you University and through the Suffolk Sun, which was
Speaker 3: an old along hand newspaper that folded up in the seventies.
Speaker 3: They actually had an article published, Dan, and in that
Speaker 3: article it said the indictment was rammed, rammed, rammed through
Speaker 3: in quotes. I can't believe. I found that about a
Speaker 3: month ago, because it ties into a lot of other things.
Speaker 3: That indictment had no signature on it. Eugene Lamb. The
Speaker 3: defense brought that to the judge's attention. The DA played
Speaker 3: the oversight card. Sorry, we had to get this quickly.
Speaker 3: We'll get it signed, judge. Let it go as an oversight.
Speaker 3: But what we'll find out years later that wasn't an oversight.
Speaker 3: It was it was an unofficial indictment. There never was.
Speaker 3: This is stunning. I don't know if there's anything like
Speaker 3: this in this country, Dan. I've had some law folks
Speaker 3: who I know here locally do a little bit of
Speaker 3: research when it comes to a murder charge. But mister
Speaker 3: Summer may be the only person in judicial history in
Speaker 3: this country to have served prison time for murder without
Speaker 3: a grand jury indictment for his arrest. And absolutely mind boggling,
Speaker 3: mind boggling.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it is. Let's talk about this confession
Speaker 2: though too. The total lack of surprise from Sam about
Speaker 2: even this confession. This is odd. I mean, usually you
Speaker 2: know you were involved in something like this he was
Speaker 2: asked to sign. Tell him tell our audience about the surprise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he was asked to sign first of all,
Speaker 3: It got so desperate the night he was beaten in
Speaker 3: the interrogation room that there was no official paperwork, if
Speaker 3: you will, for a confession. It was done on a tablet,
Speaker 3: a regular notebook. It was handwritten by a detective Thomas Gill,
Speaker 3: who to this day is still around. Sam didn't even
Speaker 3: know what the heck he was. He was beaten so
Speaker 3: badly to a point where didn't even know what the
Speaker 3: heck they wanted him to sign.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 3: That's how cloudy this became. And he, to his recollection,
Speaker 3: he never signed anything but his name was written on
Speaker 3: a notebook pad of paper that he did confess to
Speaker 3: the murder. That is tied directly into theory, of course,
Speaker 3: Dan theory, the alleged indictment that the county was able
Speaker 3: to then get to charge him for murder.
Speaker 2: What was their idea in terms of motive? They did,
Speaker 2: of course, some conducted some investigation. What did they think
Speaker 2: the motive was what was their theory.
Speaker 3: Well, if you want to back up the theory a
Speaker 3: little bit, I mean there's a number of things here.
Speaker 3: Let's start with Goberman. He's the easiest piece to start with,
Speaker 3: since Goberman was an informant for Soffolk County and again
Speaker 3: that was corroborated by testimony in a law book. Since
Speaker 3: Goberman was an informant, we know that connections Goberman had
Speaker 3: with the mafioso wanting to also invest in Summer's businesses,
Speaker 3: which Sam did not want anything to do. He was
Speaker 3: very willing to help plan for the karting industry, but
Speaker 3: again didn't want anything to do with the money. We
Speaker 3: know that the mode of there could have very easily
Speaker 3: have been a cover up for Harold Goberman taken the
Speaker 3: life of Irving Silver. Now Goberman had a stipulation against him,
Speaker 3: I mean, he was a convicted felon one more strike
Speaker 3: and he was out. So the two worked hand in
Speaker 3: hand in cohorts with trying to bring Summer down because
Speaker 3: he was the easiest guy to pin for this whole thing.
Speaker 3: So that's where we think the connection between the mafia,
Speaker 3: Harold Goberman and staffa county in terms of money and power,
Speaker 3: all started right there as as the motive. Now they
Speaker 3: claim the motive for sam had something to do because
Speaker 3: they were him and several were business partners. That's what
Speaker 3: they tried to pin on him as the motive on
Speaker 3: that end of the spectrum.
Speaker 2: Right now, with this Huntly hearing, what is the result
Speaker 2: of this Hontly hearing other than that fortuitous admission by
Speaker 2: de Luca that they did notice some abuse when he
Speaker 2: looked at Samuel. So what happens as a result of
Speaker 2: that Hontly hearing? And then what happens afterwards?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know this is this is amazing before I
Speaker 3: get to the to the to the obvious. Oh maybe
Speaker 3: I might not be so obvious. I guess conclusion of
Speaker 3: Holly hearing. Elaine Summer stole the show in that in
Speaker 3: that Hotly hearing, Dan I got, I got a level
Speaker 3: with you. I've been around a few blocks over the
Speaker 3: years when it comes to written material on articles and books.
Speaker 3: I never read anything in my entire life. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm reading a law book that was published in nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy one, and in that law book it publishes the
Speaker 3: entire transcript of the Hontly hearing of Sam Summer. Lawbook
Speaker 3: was found at Saint John's Law Library was published by
Speaker 3: Paperno and Goldstein way back when. I'm reading through the
Speaker 3: transcript of his Hotly hearing, and they published it because
Speaker 3: it was really an example of the dirty deeds behind
Speaker 3: trying to frame someone for a voluntary confession. And I'm
Speaker 3: reading Elaine Summer's testimony on the stand and I am
Speaker 3: in tears, and I mean, this happened how many decades ago,
Speaker 3: but it put me inside that courtroom and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is amazing. So these detectives from Suffolk County during
Speaker 3: the Huntley hearing really put their own shoe in their
Speaker 3: mouth because they claimed. They claimed they were on their
Speaker 3: way the evening May nineteen sixty eight. They were on
Speaker 3: their way to visit Sam at his house to talk
Speaker 3: to him about the murder of Irving Silver, not to
Speaker 3: arrest him, but to talk to him. They happened to
Speaker 3: see him pull into I'll wrap those words with quotes
Speaker 3: into Duncan donuts instead of having to drive to his house.
Speaker 3: So right then and there, they are committing perjury. Because
Speaker 3: it was established later in the Honty hearing by the
Speaker 3: same detectives that they did greet him in the middle
Speaker 3: of a lot at his car, and they did gently,
Speaker 3: I think reference maybe once pushed him along to the
Speaker 3: car to take him downtown. They changed their story Dan
Speaker 3: right then and there and during that Huntley hearing. I
Speaker 3: think that was one of the key reasons why I'll
Speaker 3: get to the result. Sam Summer wins the Huntly hearing,
Speaker 3: which basically says that without a confession, there would have
Speaker 3: been no way to find him guilty of the murder
Speaker 3: of Irving Sober, and I have that in writing. I
Speaker 3: had that assigned document from former Suffolk County Assistant District
Speaker 3: Attorney George aspland signs a document that says, without an
Speaker 3: oral confession from mister Summer, prosecuting him for the kind
Speaker 3: of murder would be so weak we would have never
Speaker 3: been able to do it. So I'm not a legal expert.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to pretend that I am one, but
Speaker 3: common sense tells me, and the more I talk to
Speaker 3: people about this, they just shake their head. Common sense
Speaker 3: tells me that if he wins a Hounty hearing and
Speaker 3: he doesn't ever confess as they they meaning the County
Speaker 3: later attests to in nineteen seventy nine by sending him
Speaker 3: a settlement check. Therefore, he should have never been arrested
Speaker 3: in the first place. So, Dan, what's iery about this
Speaker 3: is it all goes back to the arrest, which wasn't
Speaker 3: an arrest, It was a kidnapping. This is what makes
Speaker 3: this case so bizarre that let me just jump over
Speaker 3: the fence for a second here in nineteen seventy nine, Well,
Speaker 3: Sam's in prison. He gets to check. I have it.
Speaker 3: I have a copy of it. It's in the book. Ye.
Speaker 3: He gets to check from Suffolk County for five grand.
Speaker 3: And in the notation of the check it says, I
Speaker 3: don't have it in front of me. I'm gonna paraphrase
Speaker 3: it says for issues related to on May twenty second,
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, the ninety was kidnapped. So you take
Speaker 3: the check, you take the Huntly Hearing victory, and you
Speaker 3: put that all on a pot and you mix it up.
Speaker 3: He's innocent. Now we'll get one more bombshell in a
Speaker 3: little bit. But let me go back to Huntly Hearing
Speaker 3: for you, because I think I know where you're gonna
Speaker 3: go next. Obviously, he wins a Huntly hearing months later,
Speaker 3: the second I think they called it the second Department
Speaker 3: at the time, the county appeals it. Now here's what's eerie.
Speaker 3: Why would the county appeal that Sham went to Huntley hearing,
Speaker 3: which means he doesn't have to go to murder trial?
Speaker 3: Did they really have it out for him that much? Dan,
Speaker 3: Here's where I think this case takes a really creepy,
Speaker 3: creepy turn down a one way street of evil and hate.
Speaker 3: Most people that I've spoke to in the legal profession
Speaker 3: said they would let it go. You know, he won
Speaker 3: that hearing. Let's just let it go. No, the county
Speaker 3: appeals it, and I believe it was a five member
Speaker 3: judge panel, with two of the five judges having ties
Speaker 3: in their career to Suffolk County. They overturn the Hounty hearing.
Speaker 3: Unheard of them, by the way, unheard of at the time.
Speaker 3: I met with a lawyer recently on Long Island about this.
Speaker 3: Unheard of they overturn it. And you know why. They
Speaker 3: say that when he was in Sam Summer was in
Speaker 3: jail the night of May twenty second when the beating
Speaker 3: took place, that they left the room for five minutes
Speaker 3: and he self inflicted his own wounds. Yeah, now think
Speaker 3: about what's odd about that too. Now, now you have
Speaker 3: a mission from the court systems his handle of dudgeon
Speaker 3: that there actually was some yeah, you know, alterations made
Speaker 3: to his physical appearance. See, this whole thing is just odd.
Speaker 3: So they overturned this thing. He has to go to
Speaker 3: murder trial. Here's what else is interesting, eu Cheen Lamb
Speaker 3: his attorney, and I did not know this until after
Speaker 3: the book was published. This is brand new information. Uchied
Speaker 3: Lamb wanted to step off the case. He did not
Speaker 3: want to represent mister Summer anymore. Suffolk County made Lamb
Speaker 3: stay on the case for the murder trial. And according
Speaker 3: to Sam and his family, and I understand it's only
Speaker 3: one voice, but according to Sam and his family, Lamb's
Speaker 3: performance at the murder trial was completely irrelevant. He was
Speaker 3: completely checked out. He did not raise and asked questions.
Speaker 3: He was not canacious toward the prosecution at all. So
Speaker 3: Summer ends up going to prison for twenty one years,
Speaker 3: and all these strange things happen while he's in prison.
Speaker 3: He gets that check for a settlement. He gets a
Speaker 3: visit in nineteen eighty two by a guy named E.
Speaker 3: Thomas Boyle. What's the significance of Boyle. He's still alive
Speaker 3: today on Long Island. He hung up on me. I
Speaker 3: want to talk to him last year, very politely and
Speaker 3: give him a voice for the book. I wanted to
Speaker 3: give Detective Gill a voice for the book, very politely. Gil,
Speaker 3: through a family member, said, doesn't want to talk. Boyle
Speaker 3: hangs up on me. Boyle says, Chris you No, he
Speaker 3: didn't use my name, he said, he said, I will
Speaker 3: have nothing comment on this story. Click. Boyle is a
Speaker 3: practice private practicing attorney who in nineteen eighty two makes
Speaker 3: a full day's drive from Long Island up to Clinton,
Speaker 3: New York. Clinton Prison. They call it Little Siberia, upstate
Speaker 3: New York. Take the hole day and jobs up there,
Speaker 3: tells mister Summer he has information on who killed Irving Silver.
Speaker 3: Can I represent you well? Of course please. He's never
Speaker 3: heard from again if he ends up becoming Suffolk County attorney.
Speaker 3: So when you put these things together, were there bad
Speaker 3: judges and bad cops? Dan, Yes, But I really am
Speaker 3: convinced this is a case about evil, and it's a
Speaker 3: case about hate. I think this was a hate crime
Speaker 3: before it was even coined by the media in the
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties against a Jewish American in New York who
Speaker 3: had built an empire and because he turned down certain
Speaker 3: people to invest in endeavors together, they had it out
Speaker 3: for him.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask about and I will get to
Speaker 2: this in a second, but you mentioned that that this
Speaker 2: is an evil, it's a hate crime. I'm reading through this,
Speaker 2: I thought, isn't a possibility to consider, is that the
Speaker 2: police are all mobbed up and oh, favors to people
Speaker 2: in the mafia or the mafia. Yeah, favors from the police,
Speaker 2: favors from the judiciary.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you know, if I made dovetail on that
Speaker 3: Sam Summer, from all of our research, we may be
Speaker 3: a little off on this, but from all of our research,
Speaker 3: he was really the first guinea pig of what has
Speaker 3: turned out to be dan decades and decades of corruption
Speaker 3: on Long Island. Now with Da Seeney who came into play,
Speaker 3: I think in twenty eighteen, I'm gonna tip my hat
Speaker 3: to Suffolk County. They've done a lot of things to
Speaker 3: clean up ever since Da spoke up was arrested indicted
Speaker 3: back in fall of twenty seventeen, Sini came in. He
Speaker 3: started this Integrity Bureau to go back and review all
Speaker 3: these cases where they think the mafia was involved and
Speaker 3: a lot of injustice was done. I'm glad they're doing that.
Speaker 3: I think that's a classy move and I think it's
Speaker 3: long overdue. But you know what, mister Summer and his
Speaker 3: family have really been railroaded for so many years. Do
Speaker 3: you know that his kids who were not even able
Speaker 3: to go to school? Do you know that when he
Speaker 3: went to prison in seventy one, Elane, you want to
Speaker 3: talk about a hero? Wow, Dan, she packs up the
Speaker 3: station wagon with the kids. Yeah, you know where I'm
Speaker 3: going with this, and this is a whole separate story.
Speaker 3: But those little kids and that wife of his, they
Speaker 3: wanted to be with dad and husband. So they follow
Speaker 3: him from prison to prison in New York State. Their
Speaker 3: house was mysteriously repossessed, his business was taken over. There's
Speaker 3: your mafia connection, allegedly, But there's your mafia connection. Why
Speaker 3: is he moved from prison to prison basically in his
Speaker 3: first go around? Every eighteen months, every two years. Good behavior?
Speaker 3: You know, you got to get to know this guy
Speaker 3: as a person. And I'm not saying you know, end
Speaker 3: of the day, I don't know if he did this
Speaker 3: or not. Only the Lord knows up above, but I
Speaker 3: can tell you there is a mountain of technicalities and
Speaker 3: reasonable doubt. And we'll get to a bombshell in just
Speaker 3: a minute for your listeners. They move to whatever community
Speaker 3: he's in, they run out of money. Elaine Silver's bouncing checks.
Speaker 3: She had the FBI after her. She's got little kids
Speaker 3: sleeping in the back seat the cars just so they
Speaker 3: can be with their dad. And they never brought their
Speaker 3: angst with them inside prison, and he never brought his
Speaker 3: angst with them when they visited. They kept it from
Speaker 3: one another out of love, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's incredible now, Judge Robert Levy, real quickly for your listeners,
Speaker 3: Judge Robert Levy, who today serves as a Federal Magistrate
Speaker 3: Judge the Eastern District of New York thinky semi retired.
Speaker 3: Judge Levy back in two thousand and seven. When Sam
Speaker 3: was released from prison in ninety one, got to reno,
Speaker 3: you know, he got to know his family again, and
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Some time it passed. Levy goes on
Speaker 3: an investigation through the Civil Liberties Union to try to
Speaker 3: sign a copy of an autopsy report. Dan that to
Speaker 3: this day, yeah, eighteen thousand days later, Sam Summer has
Speaker 3: never seen a copy of the autopsy report that they
Speaker 3: used during trial, or they referenced, I should say referenced
Speaker 3: during trial. Judge George mcinnerney in sixty eight put an
Speaker 3: order in that the prosecution needs to cough up a
Speaker 3: copy of the autopsy report. They never have. Now, I'm
Speaker 3: not a legal expert, but I've been told that's contempt
Speaker 3: of court Judge's spircial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crucial to the it's crucial to the evidence.
Speaker 2: Also tell us at the same time, because you know
Speaker 2: the audience doesn't know, you haven't told us exactly what
Speaker 2: the original emmy said about cause of death, time of death. Again,
Speaker 2: we don't even know how the outline of how possibly
Speaker 2: Sam could not have had an alibi for when they
Speaker 2: believed that Silver was killed. But again, this autopsy report
Speaker 2: would shed a lot of light on that. And the
Speaker 2: issue we should discuss too is whether it was a
Speaker 2: pipe as the technis contended yep, or a hit and run,
Speaker 2: which are completely different.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that directly relates to why they could never
Speaker 3: get an indictment in the first place, because originally they
Speaker 3: were talking about, I want to say so much a
Speaker 3: hit and run, but I guess it was he ran
Speaker 3: them over. That was the cause of death reported in
Speaker 3: a medical examiner's report, but then later in autopsy report
Speaker 3: talks about the cause of death as a lead pipe.
Speaker 3: But that's going to have direct relationship to this indictment
Speaker 3: issue that to this day has not been answered for.
Speaker 3: So you have these, plus you also have paperwork in
Speaker 3: the mid two thousands that comes up that has a
Speaker 3: handwritten note from the from the DA's office that he
Speaker 3: wasn't tried for murder. They wrote in the word manslaughter,
Speaker 3: yet he served twenty one years for murder. Let me
Speaker 3: tell your listeners real quickly why these this change of
Speaker 3: crime thing happened. So on May eighteenth, which was the
Speaker 3: day of Irving Silver's funeral, basically the day after he
Speaker 3: was found Jewish tradition, May eighteenth, there was an indictment
Speaker 3: for mister Summer's arrest. Now this is four days before
Speaker 3: he was kidnapped. The grand jury said, no, we're not
Speaker 3: issuing an indictment because there's no evidence based on a
Speaker 3: hit and run that he even did this ironically. On
Speaker 3: May twenty second in the morning, the counter or the
Speaker 3: die goes back to a grand jury with a different crime.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, still murder, a different cause of crime of
Speaker 3: that pipe.
Speaker 2: Yah.
Speaker 3: The indictment is dismissed again two times, then he's kidnapped.
Speaker 3: Then they rammed through another one on May twenty or
Speaker 3: it actually rammed through the first indictment on paper on
Speaker 3: May twenty third, and it wasn't signed. So here's what happens.
Speaker 3: Here's what happens. In twenty and fifteen, through the Freedom
Speaker 3: of Information Act, at the age of seventy nine, with
Speaker 3: a cane in his hand, with his son in law,
Speaker 3: mister Summer has granted permission to go to yapink Out
Speaker 3: on Long Island and search the archives of all the
Speaker 3: documents associated with his case over all these years. Was
Speaker 3: a major breakthrough. He was never able to see anything
Speaker 3: from Suffolk County. They just ignored him if Nordon mcnort
Speaker 3: um for years. He finds in a carton a a
Speaker 3: piece of paper that says supplemental report. Supplemental report filled
Speaker 3: out by Detective Gil noticed The date of the report
Speaker 3: April twenty second, nineteen seventy one, a month after mister
Speaker 3: Summer sent to prison, one of the kidnapping detectives completes
Speaker 3: a report and on the report, what's the first date
Speaker 3: May twenty third? Indictment for arrests dis missed? This paperwork
Speaker 3: was covered up for forty four years. Here's where it
Speaker 3: gets real eerie. Just two weeks ago and this is
Speaker 3: not even in the book. This brings us to where
Speaker 3: his case is today. By the way, just two weeks
Speaker 3: ago Sam started to put something together. He found paperwork
Speaker 3: from two thousand and seven filled out by Suffoconi. On
Speaker 3: the paperwork, it was a timeline of his case. You
Speaker 3: know what the first date was? May eighteenth, No indictment,
Speaker 3: May twenty second, arrested. How come May eighteenth and May
Speaker 3: twenty second, we're not on Gill's supplemental report that was
Speaker 3: filed into the darkness into the ABYSS. Our big thing
Speaker 3: that we're saying now is if you're going to send
Speaker 3: someone to prison for twenty one years, your paperwork ought
Speaker 3: to match Dan. To this day it has not matched.
Speaker 3: And so now we are going full speed ahead for
Speaker 3: his innocence through the Integrity Bureau at Suffocony. He just
Speaker 3: submitted Sam did his application. It's about three and a
Speaker 3: half inches thick. It was just received today by Suffocony
Speaker 3: and there's going to be some major media attention on
Speaker 3: his case.
Speaker 2: How haunting is le That time is incredible. You you
Speaker 2: also talk about that he used his time to a
Speaker 2: great benefit when he was in prison, studying law and
Speaker 2: then even getting alt long distance degree in law.
Speaker 3: The university did absolutely he was able to actually get
Speaker 3: his high school credential in prison, and he completed law
Speaker 3: classes through Boston University, and he mentored other inmates, and
Speaker 3: that you know, back in the seventies, I get it,
Speaker 3: prison culture was pretty rough in New York because it
Speaker 3: probably was around the country. There was a lot of segregation.
Speaker 3: So for him to be a mentor to other inmates
Speaker 3: probably didn't sit well with the guards and they just
Speaker 3: they kept moving them. They didn't want to deal with them.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, he just he kept focused all these
Speaker 3: years knowing that someday maybe he would get the chance
Speaker 3: to just lift this burden off. And he wants to
Speaker 3: do it for his family. You know, he's got thirty
Speaker 3: a combined thirty great grandchildren, grandchildren and children. Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 3: and he just he's eighty three. He just had three
Speaker 3: surgeries in the last two years. He survived a nine
Speaker 3: to one to one call last Christmas time, last Christmas season.
Speaker 3: I think he's being a kept their own for a reason.
Speaker 3: He just wants his family to know that Eddi's innocent.
Speaker 2: And this book has had a purpose, had a much
Speaker 2: bigger purpose than just to tell the story. What was
Speaker 2: that purpose for Samuel and his family?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was more than just to tell the story.
Speaker 3: It was also to just raise awareness about justice. It
Speaker 3: was to raise awareness about persevering together in love as
Speaker 3: a family. It was about to raise awareness that this
Speaker 3: would not happen to other people. And in a strange
Speaker 3: kind of way, Dan, I think that's come around full
Speaker 3: circle now because of what we're seeing going on with
Speaker 3: Detective I'm sorry, District Attorney Seeni in Suffolk County.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of the issues that are
Speaker 2: in this book, even though we're talking about fifty years ago,
Speaker 2: these issues are now becoming more our people are looking
Speaker 2: at them through different lens. And so once upon a time,
Speaker 2: when we first saw Rodney King being beat by those officers, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think people believed that. They said, well, you know,
Speaker 2: when you'd hear reports of people being beat and they said, well,
Speaker 2: they must have done something. You know that you really
Speaker 2: didn't believe until you get these clear, very very clear
Speaker 2: indications that that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 3: And that's well said Dan. That's an excellent point because
Speaker 3: to mister Summer, he didn't believe this could even happen.
Speaker 3: He he loved law enforcement. He put so much faith
Speaker 3: and you know, he really supported law enforcement. He thought
Speaker 3: it was just one big misunderstanding. For a long time,
Speaker 3: he thought it was one big misunderstanding and that you know,
Speaker 3: they would clear it up and they would apologize, and
Speaker 3: he would accept, he would forgive them. But as time progressed,
Speaker 3: that didn't seem to be the case. And then we
Speaker 3: found other things happening with Suffolk County over the years
Speaker 3: of similar you know, means of our demonstrations of corruption
Speaker 3: and injustice, and so that's all come full circle too.
Speaker 3: But that's an excellent point, Dan, That really.
Speaker 2: Is this is an amazing book, This book railroaded. And
Speaker 2: what does uh Samuel think about the book now that
Speaker 2: it's been published.
Speaker 3: Well, for him, it's a it's it's a very important
Speaker 3: moral victory for him, you know, I look back at
Speaker 3: the process of putting this together with him and for
Speaker 3: him and for his family, for his family. I mean,
Speaker 3: this just opened up a lot of emotions, good emotions.
Speaker 3: It opened up a lot of truth. You know, there
Speaker 3: was there was this. This book helped Sam learn about
Speaker 3: the whole family surviving in the back seats of cars.
Speaker 3: He didn't know that after all these years until just
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago because it came up in
Speaker 3: a conversation when I was out in New York visiting
Speaker 3: with his family. A lot of this stuff came out,
Speaker 3: and it was good because they were able to cry
Speaker 3: together and they were able to put closure on this together.
Speaker 3: So again, he did this not only to help rid
Speaker 3: injustice from his soul and from his souldiers, but he
Speaker 3: just wants other people to be aware that, sadly, this
Speaker 3: kind of thing can happen, and just to you know,
Speaker 3: kind of live your life with the eyes in the
Speaker 3: back of your head. You have to sometimes it's just
Speaker 3: the way it is.
Speaker 2: Elaine is such a heroic figure in this, so strong
Speaker 2: for her husband, so defiant with the judiciary. You know,
Speaker 2: she wasn't quiet about her disagreement or very disagreed with
Speaker 2: everything that went on in the treatment of her husband.
Speaker 2: When she saw her husband in the condition that he
Speaker 2: could barely talk and he was beaten up.
Speaker 3: She was not.
Speaker 2: She was very vocal. I wanted one other thing that
Speaker 2: was very interesting too, And at least lends some credence
Speaker 2: to the idea that Sam's idea, because that's what's featured
Speaker 2: in this book, Sam's thoughts, Sam's ideas, Sam's investigation. Sam
Speaker 2: bringing up points to help his own fight for justice.
Speaker 2: That his attorney, Lamb presented a plea bargain to him
Speaker 2: at one point, didn't It demonstrates a lot of things
Speaker 2: about innocence and Sam's integrity.
Speaker 3: Tell us about this. There was a chance, excellent Dan,
Speaker 3: there was a chance during the proceedings for the murder
Speaker 3: trial where a plea bargain was presented to him for
Speaker 3: less time, considerably less time. I think that's where the
Speaker 3: manslaughter element came in. And Sam just you know, I
Speaker 3: think at that point he was more upset that that
Speaker 3: was ever even presented to him. He was upset not
Speaker 3: only with the County but Lamb, that lam wouldnt even
Speaker 3: bring it to him because he passionately knew he was innocent.
Speaker 3: And then that would even be out of the question
Speaker 3: now in hindsight, doing what five years versus twenty one? Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know if you would accept it, but it just
Speaker 3: would it just proves that his innocence was genuine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, it's a it's a you know,
Speaker 2: these two strong, incredible, heroic characters. The only thing you
Speaker 2: could ever say about Sam, I mean, because we didn't
Speaker 2: even get into this this this guy's just an incredible
Speaker 2: family man. If this is the kind of guy that
Speaker 2: you the police think they can just take and beat
Speaker 2: and then run a business, run a life, run a
Speaker 2: family man. Yeah, this is a guy that they totally
Speaker 2: didn't understand. And I don't think that's what it was.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a misunderstanding at all. But
Speaker 2: this person, you know, the kind of person that they
Speaker 2: went and ruined this guy's life. You know, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: The only business he made was this association with mobsters, Right,
Speaker 2: that's a mistake.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And in the fast, busy, ever changing world of
Speaker 3: commerce that was going on in New York City trying
Speaker 3: to identify and define itself as you know, a leader
Speaker 3: in garments and food and all this stuff, he was
Speaker 3: it was somewhat unavoidable for him. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: he was worried about his his relative too, and his
Speaker 3: relative son getting caught up and all that stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, in hindsight, when you look back at that
Speaker 3: as well, probably just even conversing with those folks led
Speaker 3: to led to his plight in some regard.
Speaker 2: You bet well, it's incredible he makes a position for
Speaker 2: Irving Silver, his wife's uncle, and it really he created
Speaker 2: a position that would help this guy deal with his
Speaker 2: dying wife and then his in the financial crunch that
Speaker 2: this guy was in. Yeah, I mean, you can't get him.
Speaker 2: It didn't seem everything he did was altruistic and this injustice.
Speaker 3: Absolutely on him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to thank you very much Christopher for
Speaker 2: coming on and talking about railroaded frame for murder, Fighting
Speaker 2: for Justice. Do you have a thank page or a
Speaker 2: website that people might refer to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of different places. And first of all,
Speaker 3: thank you Dan. I love your show. Your show is
Speaker 3: very important in the world of justice, and it just
Speaker 3: gets a lot of wonderful perspective out there that would
Speaker 3: otherwise be suppressed. So thank you and God bless the
Speaker 3: work you do. A couple of places your listeners can
Speaker 3: go Christopher Jossart dot com is a website, so that's
Speaker 3: just my complete author name, Christopher Jossart dot com. You
Speaker 3: can find some more info there and also Wild Blue Press.
Speaker 3: I know you've had Stephen Jackson on before in the past.
Speaker 3: He's an amazing author. What a storyteller he is, so
Speaker 3: Wild Blue Press dot com forwards Last Railroad it is
Speaker 3: where you'll find some more information there as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Steve Jackson and the Wild Blue Press in
Speaker 2: an incredible stable of really great emerging authors and you know,
Speaker 2: veteran authors, but really really a great place for true
Speaker 2: crime book writing. Absolutely, I want to thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Christopher joss Art has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you
Speaker 2: very much for this interview. You have a great night.
Speaker 3: Thanks as well, Dan YouTube Bye, good night,