Speaker 1: Okay, how this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey
Speaker 1: investigates on today's show of a very special guest. His
Speaker 1: name is Jody Cloche and he wrote a book back
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen titled Why Gary Why, which I read
Speaker 1: through today. Fascinating book, really interesting story. You'll probably find
Speaker 1: out what his relationship is to some of these one
Speaker 1: of the most famous viral videos out there. But this
Speaker 1: book right now on Amazon has one hundred and ninety
Speaker 1: three five star ratings, well deserved, and you can get
Speaker 1: in a kindle and paperback. But Jody Ploche. Plache has
Speaker 1: worked in the field of violence prevention since nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 1: He attended Louisiana State University, where he served on the
Speaker 1: executive board for Men Against Violence, a campus organization aimed
Speaker 1: at preventing campus violence, including sexual assaign of assault, and
Speaker 1: physical violence. Then he worked at the Victim Services Center
Speaker 1: of Montgomery County in Northstown, Pennsylvania, and also worked as
Speaker 1: a sexual assault counselor as well as a prevention educter,
Speaker 1: and he has provided crisis intervention to sexual assault victims
Speaker 1: on the agency's twenty four hour Crisis Outline as well
Speaker 1: as through in person support at hospitals and police stations.
Speaker 1: He's also facilitated sexual violence risk reduction programs for students
Speaker 1: ranging for pre K to college, and he has served
Speaker 1: on the statewide Men Against Sexual Violence Committee. In October
Speaker 1: twenty two thousand and two, he attended the White House
Speaker 1: Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: Featuring Colin Powell and George W. Bush. And He's also
Speaker 1: was named the Survivor Activist of the Year by the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. He shared his personal
Speaker 1: story as well as the knowledge about working with survivors
Speaker 1: of sexual assault on numerous TV shows, including Galdo Now
Speaker 1: It Can Be Told, Maury at The Oprah Winfrey Show,
Speaker 1: Lie's a Real TV, The Montel william Show, John Wall Show,
Speaker 1: CNN's Connie Chunk Tonight, ABC World News Tonight in ESPN's
Speaker 1: E sixty. But again, we're going to talk about this book.
Speaker 1: He highly recommended. The title is Why, Gary Why, and
Speaker 1: the author against Jody Clochet. So, Jody, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me so for people and may
Speaker 1: not have heard your story or this book, can you
Speaker 1: kind of talk about your background and the story behind
Speaker 1: the book.
Speaker 2: Gary all Right. As a kid growing up, I was
Speaker 2: involved in athletics. I played like I started playing tackle
Speaker 2: football when I was six years old. I couldn't start
Speaker 2: playing basketball until I was eight years old, but then
Speaker 2: I played softball, eventually moved to baseball, and I also
Speaker 2: played soccer. I would leave. I would leave one of
Speaker 2: my football games at halftime to go to my soccer game.
Speaker 2: With that. I had an older brother who was also involved,
Speaker 2: and a younger brother who wasn't really involved. So when
Speaker 2: I was in fifth grade, I got a flyer to
Speaker 2: take karate. Well, I bowled the flower up and threw
Speaker 2: it in the garbage camp beforeve and walked out of
Speaker 2: the door. Well, my little brother he brought the flower home,
Speaker 2: so my mother saw it and decided that that might
Speaker 2: be something he can douse, so she put him in it.
Speaker 2: But when she put him in it, she put my
Speaker 2: older brother and me and a neighbor's friend agreed to
Speaker 2: go and so we all started taking karate. The first
Speaker 2: karate teacher showed up for the first lesson, then didn't
Speaker 2: show up for the second lesson, so eventually our names
Speaker 2: all the people had paid for like ten karate lessons,
Speaker 2: our names would turned over to a young up and
Speaker 2: coming karate martial arts instructor, Jeff dow Set, who had
Speaker 2: just opened up his karate school and he had a
Speaker 2: fighting team, and so we started taking it from him.
Speaker 2: He was going to honor the remaining lessons. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: after a couple of lessons, Jeff told my mom that,
Speaker 2: you know, your boys are really athletic. They're really good.
Speaker 2: You know, I think they could, you know, really do
Speaker 2: good in karate. And so we agreed to continue taking
Speaker 2: karate lessons from Jeff, even though once our once our
Speaker 2: paid up lessons were done, we just signed up and
Speaker 2: kept taking them. Well, unbeknownst to my parents, Jeff du
Speaker 2: Sett was a pedophile and he was a child molester.
Speaker 2: So eventually, after several months of taking karate, he started
Speaker 2: working on me and uh, you know, he would try
Speaker 2: to stretch us out and he would get real close
Speaker 2: to us and hold us like, you know, push our
Speaker 2: legs down to make is to a split. And I
Speaker 2: think that looking back would be like the first time
Speaker 2: he was trying to normalize him touching me, you know,
Speaker 2: between my legs, saying oh, look, fee your legs are
Speaker 2: tight right there when I'm doing a split, and I
Speaker 2: think that that was him trying to normalize him touching
Speaker 2: me inappropriately. The first time it really registered in my
Speaker 2: mind as a child, I was driving the car. He
Speaker 2: was gonna let us we're coming home from arate practice,
Speaker 2: and he's like, all right, who wants to drive the car?
Speaker 2: You know? So we all wanted to drive the car.
Speaker 2: So I was, you know, I was first up, first
Speaker 2: on Jeff's lap, and as we're driving a car, he
Speaker 2: starts putting his hand in my lap and I start thinking,
Speaker 2: oh my god, you know, and then it went away.
Speaker 2: It was like almost like it was almost like an accident,
Speaker 2: like that's what I was justifying in my mind that
Speaker 2: was an accident, and it wasn't. That was him testing
Speaker 2: my boundaries. And so after I didn't say anything about that,
Speaker 2: then he started to do actually more, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: an accident. This is you know, he's actually rubbing on
Speaker 2: me while I'm trying to sleep, which led to, you know,
Speaker 2: basically a full sexual relationships where he would perform earl
Speaker 2: sex on me, then he would have sex with me.
Speaker 2: And this lasted for almost a year eventually.
Speaker 1: And you were what ten or eleven at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of when I was ten and it went
Speaker 2: onto ten I was eleven years old.
Speaker 1: He kind of ingratiated himself into your family too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he didn't just yeah, he didn't just you know,
Speaker 2: groom me. He groomed the family. I mean, there was
Speaker 2: one time he told my parents that he had injured
Speaker 2: himself when he was like six years old and he
Speaker 2: couldn't have kids because he had gotten his you know,
Speaker 2: I guess private parts mangled on a fence jumping over
Speaker 2: a fence, and so he couldn't have kids. That's why
Speaker 2: he left kids so much. That's why I want to
Speaker 2: be around kid so much. And I mean that immediately
Speaker 2: when they first met him, may heard that story. Set
Speaker 2: just kind of takes that that off the table, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean any red flag they may have had was
Speaker 2: gone now. And I mean there's a reason why the
Speaker 2: average pedophile molests over one hundred children before their cart
Speaker 2: because they're good at what they do.
Speaker 1: And he was in your household talking to your parents
Speaker 1: all that stuff too.
Speaker 2: Eventually, yeah, I mean, eventually, you know it's like, hey, Jeff,
Speaker 2: why don't you come over Saturday night. We're getting together,
Speaker 2: So he came over Saturday night my family got together,
Speaker 2: and so he became a regular. I mean he would
Speaker 2: go to my aunts and uncle's house when they would
Speaker 2: host a party. I mean so, I mean even my dad, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, brought him to Sunday dinner one time because
Speaker 2: he had stayed over Saturday night and he lived at
Speaker 2: the karate studios. So Daddy brought him back to the
Speaker 2: karate studio. And when you dropped him off, you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, Jeff was looking sad and was walking
Speaker 2: to the karate studios. So my dad got to stop light,
Speaker 2: I mean the first stop light outside of karate school,
Speaker 2: and he's just balling. He's crying. I'm like what he's
Speaker 2: just like, he goes, He's so pitiful. He has nobody.
Speaker 2: So my dad turned the car around, went back, picked
Speaker 2: him up, brought him home, let him shower, gave him
Speaker 2: a shirt fresh shirt out of the closet, dressed him up,
Speaker 2: and took him to my grandparents my dad's parents' house
Speaker 2: for Sunday dinner. Wow.
Speaker 1: Right, so he's close to your family but also taking
Speaker 1: you on these trips athletic trips, right, karate trips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we went on a few tournaments, went to Houston
Speaker 2: a couple of times, I think, trying to think we
Speaker 2: had a karate tournament here, it was another kind of
Speaker 2: local karate tournament. And there's another time we went sparred
Speaker 2: with another gym and a couple of towns over. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, it was not uncommon for me to be
Speaker 2: riding with Jeff to Fort Worth, Texas in a van
Speaker 2: with a bunch of other kids going to a karate tournament.
Speaker 1: For he was also he was also kind of a
Speaker 1: swindler too, like he oh.
Speaker 2: He's one hundred percent of swindle. He's a con artist.
Speaker 2: So the summer of eighty three, he had decided he
Speaker 2: was going to use us as a business idea, and
Speaker 2: he came up with these lsu bandanas, kind of like
Speaker 2: the it's like a purple and gold tiger stripe bandana
Speaker 2: and he called it a tiger right. Well, my dad
Speaker 2: actually and my dad of course introduced Jeff to one
Speaker 2: of his friends who was a local business owner was
Speaker 2: interested in buying these bandanas, and so the guy put
Speaker 2: in an order flight let's say, fifteen thousand bandanas because
Speaker 2: he had like thirty stores, like convenience stores around the
Speaker 2: bat Rouge area, and so he put in an order
Speaker 2: for like fifteen thousand, and Jeff just spent the money.
Speaker 2: He didn't purchase the bandanas with him, and so the
Speaker 2: guy didn't get his bandanas or he didn't get his
Speaker 2: money back. So he was the one that actually I
Speaker 2: think Jeff was facing I guess going to court for
Speaker 2: this guy in the money, and Jeff couldn't come up
Speaker 2: with the money. So eventually, when Jeff couldn't come up
Speaker 2: in the money, in February of nineteen eighty four, Jeff
Speaker 2: decided he was gonna leave town. And since I was
Speaker 2: his love interest for the past year, he decided I
Speaker 2: was coming with him, and so when he'd skipped down,
Speaker 2: that's when he took me.
Speaker 1: All right, so you went on this thing, and your
Speaker 1: mom had checked him out, right, so there was no yes.
Speaker 2: The first time, the first time we ever went to
Speaker 2: the movies with him, she called her brother that worked
Speaker 2: for the Sheriff's apartment and said, can you check on
Speaker 2: this guy? Now? Whether he did or didn't, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but he said, oh, no, he's fine, Ain't nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with him. And so so, I mean, my mother even
Speaker 2: took that extra step to do a background check with
Speaker 2: her brother, who was a cop, and Jeff came out clean,
Speaker 2: which looking back, he shouldn't have, right.
Speaker 1: And do you ever get the few that he was
Speaker 1: also abusing other boys at the same time as you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't get the feeling. I saw it
Speaker 2: with my own eyes. There was a time where you know,
Speaker 2: he he told me if I didn't perform oral sex
Speaker 2: on me, he was gonna make the other kid do it.
Speaker 2: And I said, we'll make the other kids do it,
Speaker 2: and he did. He the other kid just went underneath
Speaker 2: the covers and performed on him.
Speaker 1: So it all leads up he's in trouble with the law,
Speaker 1: gonna be in trouble. You actually involved in forging check
Speaker 1: for him or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, yeah, he had me signed some checks with
Speaker 2: my mother's name, just I mean twenty dollars here, fifteen
Speaker 2: dollars there. But I mean that was another issue with
Speaker 2: Jeff too.
Speaker 1: But he was charming. He had that that you say
Speaker 1: you see in the book, like he was very charming
Speaker 1: and was able to.
Speaker 2: Oh, watch watch Criminal Minds. I've been I've been binge
Speaker 2: watching Criminal Minds for like the last couple of months,
Speaker 2: and I mean he's every bit is charming as Ted Bundy.
Speaker 1: Wow, So just like a glib talker, really charm people
Speaker 1: and things like that.
Speaker 2: He could make people laugh. I mean, yeah, he was
Speaker 2: just a common artist, that's all he did. But he
Speaker 2: didn't care about nobody but himself.
Speaker 1: So he decides to flee with you with not much
Speaker 1: of a plan, right, just he was gonna go to
Speaker 1: California and find a job or something. He had no money.
Speaker 2: Agent, We're going to Los Angeles to find a job.
Speaker 2: We're gonna, you know, live our life together. He's gonna
Speaker 2: pose me as his son. And so we took my
Speaker 2: mother's car actually to Port Arthur, Texas. That was on
Speaker 2: a Sunday, And so that Monday he tried to get
Speaker 2: money for a bus ticket, which I think he got
Speaker 2: from his uncle. And then on that Tuesday, we took
Speaker 2: a bus from Orange, Texas to Los Angeles, and my mother,
Speaker 2: by the way, was told that Sunday we would be
Speaker 2: coming home Monday. And when we didn't come home Monday,
Speaker 2: that's when she contacted the police, and so the police
Speaker 2: and my mother went to Port author. She know I
Speaker 2: was with Jeff's and I knew I was a Jeff's
Speaker 2: mom's house. She knew that, and so she went with
Speaker 2: the police officers to Jeffs mom's house looking for me,
Speaker 2: and we had already taken the bus like about an
Speaker 2: hour before they got there, all.
Speaker 1: Right, so he's moving slowly and so like he dyed
Speaker 1: your hair this.
Speaker 2: Whole Yeah, he did. I think he did that in
Speaker 2: a He did that in the motel room in Anaheim.
Speaker 2: Once we got settled after I think he died hair.
Speaker 2: After we got back from Disneyland. He took me to Disneyland,
Speaker 2: and I think it was like that evening when we
Speaker 2: got back from Disneyland. He died my hair black, which
Speaker 2: was snow white blonde, and then he shaved his beard
Speaker 2: and he dyed his hair. I guess he tried to
Speaker 2: die blonde and it came out kind of red looking.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he went that forward to disguise me.
Speaker 1: Right, So then like he was just conning his way
Speaker 1: across the country, right, didn't He asked find some guy
Speaker 1: in a karate mag to get another six hundred bucks
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, once we got to La you know, we really
Speaker 2: didn't have any money, so he bought a karate magazine
Speaker 2: and he looked in the back, and there was a
Speaker 2: guy named al Garza out of Houston area, and we
Speaker 2: had fought at one of OL's tournaments fairly recently, and
Speaker 2: so he just he told al He said, look, man,
Speaker 2: I brought a group of kids out to California. My
Speaker 2: van got stolen. Can you please just wire me, you know,
Speaker 2: just a couple bucks so I can get us back home.
Speaker 2: And he sent us five hundred dollars Western six hundred
Speaker 2: dollars Western Union, and Jeff collected five fifty.
Speaker 1: Right, so that allowed you you were in California, what
Speaker 1: three two or three weeks or something.
Speaker 2: No, I was going to total of ten days, so
Speaker 2: you figure a couple of days in Texas, a couple
Speaker 2: of days on the bus. I think we got to
Speaker 2: We got to La at like two am on that
Speaker 2: Thursday of that week, so Thursday, and then he was
Speaker 2: arrested on a leap year, twenty ninth. He was arrested
Speaker 2: the twenty ninth of February, and it was a leap year.
Speaker 2: And then I was returned home March first, and Jeff
Speaker 2: didn't come home until March sixteenth.
Speaker 1: And then the thing that he the mistake was the
Speaker 1: collected call. Right, that's who yes crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, well, and I think the reason why Jeff allowed
Speaker 2: me to make the collective phone call is because I
Speaker 2: think Jeff was out of money. I mean, because we
Speaker 2: had been paying for the phone. The first couple of
Speaker 2: long distance calls we made. You know, here's five bucks
Speaker 2: for that call, here's ten bucks for that call. But
Speaker 2: we were out of money, and so I think that
Speaker 2: was just kind of like, Okay, you know what, let
Speaker 2: me let me throw in the towel, let's let me
Speaker 2: get arrested, Let's go back home, and then I'll con
Speaker 2: my way out of this when I get back to
Speaker 2: bat Urge. I think that that was his actual plan
Speaker 2: at that point.
Speaker 1: And he is what twenty six, twenty seven at the time, he.
Speaker 2: Was twenty No, he was only he was twenty five,
Speaker 2: one month and two weeks.
Speaker 1: So what happened next? When you when the police showed
Speaker 1: up in the Anahum?
Speaker 2: All right? So when the police showed up and brought bus,
Speaker 2: all right? So he allowed me to call my mother
Speaker 2: collect which my mother asked for time in charges. What
Speaker 2: that means is when the phone calls over, the operator
Speaker 2: gets back on and I'm I'm not telling you this,
Speaker 2: I'm telling the audience who might not be old enough
Speaker 2: to remember the operator would come back on the phone call,
Speaker 2: because when you make a collect call, you have the
Speaker 2: other person pay for the call. And so she told
Speaker 2: my mother that call was twenty minutes and it's going
Speaker 2: to be you know, fourteen dollars or whatever the going
Speaker 2: rate and the length of time was at the time,
Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty eighty four. So excuse me. So
Speaker 2: he's talking on the phone to my mother. He's standing
Speaker 2: on the right side of me, on the right side
Speaker 2: of the bed, and I heard a knock on the door.
Speaker 2: I heard a key, and then I heard, you know,
Speaker 2: like please, please, please, And I was sitting on the
Speaker 2: bed closest to the door. They put guns on me.
Speaker 2: They had guns on him. They took me, they pulled
Speaker 2: me out. I saw a guy walk around a bed
Speaker 2: and Jeff kind of went, you know, hands to the wall,
Speaker 2: kind of you know, turned around, hands to the wall,
Speaker 2: and the guy walked around the bed. He told Jeff,
Speaker 2: I ought to punch you in the I think either
Speaker 2: I think gd mouth or something like that. I had
Speaker 2: to punch you in the mouth. And then they had
Speaker 2: me outside by the pool area. And that is the
Speaker 2: last time I ever saw Jeff again. I never saw
Speaker 2: him after that. They took me from there to the
Speaker 2: police station, where they questioned me for a couple of
Speaker 2: hours and I denied everything. And then after the and
Speaker 2: they were doing good cop and bad cop to me too,
Speaker 2: and I heard like an overhere and going, well, you
Speaker 2: go in here and you haven't explained what this was. Oh,
Speaker 2: it's on the towel, and you know, he adopted to
Speaker 2: explain what it was, and I'm thinking, like, what's on
Speaker 2: the towel? Anyway, they thought it might be like some
Speaker 2: fecal matter, but it was the hair dye because it
Speaker 2: was brown, so they were trying to like intimidate me.
Speaker 2: I went from the police station to the hospital where
Speaker 2: they did a complete physical and a rape kit, and
Speaker 2: so I knew it was only a matter of time that,
Speaker 2: you know, that rape kit was going to come back positive.
Speaker 2: So I just kept lying, kept saying Jeff never touched me.
Speaker 2: They took me to some like home from neglect children.
Speaker 2: I stayed the day there. One ten in the morning,
Speaker 2: I fled at lax. I got to New Orleans at
Speaker 2: six a m. And that was March first, and so
Speaker 2: Jeff wouldn't be flown home till March sixteenth, which was
Speaker 2: like two weeks later. It was a Friday. But in
Speaker 2: the week before Jeff was flown back was when my
Speaker 2: parents found out about the hospital report. That's when Mike
Speaker 2: Bournette with the Sheriff's department, who had kind of led
Speaker 2: the investigation, sat my parents down and said, you know,
Speaker 2: Jeff had been sexually abusing Jody, and Daddy said, well,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna killing and you know, Mike said he's told
Speaker 2: many parents about their children being sexually abused and that
Speaker 2: it didn't raise a red flag because most parents' answer
Speaker 2: is I'm not killing, you know, or you know.
Speaker 1: Uh, they weren't aware of anything up until that.
Speaker 2: Point, right, No, I mean they they at that point
Speaker 2: they had their suspicions. Okay, it was just confirmed. And
Speaker 2: then once my mother sat me down and told me that,
Speaker 2: you know, okay, you know Jeff fooled with you, then
Speaker 2: I immediately I just said, yes he did. And then
Speaker 2: I kind of told her something of what happened, maybe
Speaker 2: how it started, uh, how long it went on, and
Speaker 2: then she was like, all right, good place. So I
Speaker 2: got on my bike and I wrote down on my
Speaker 2: friend's house, and I felt like the weight of the
Speaker 2: world had been left off my shoulder. I've been keeping
Speaker 2: his secret for over a year, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: it just felt good to actually feel like I can
Speaker 2: get back to normal, being a normal eleven year old
Speaker 2: kick kid boy. That only lasted for a week.
Speaker 1: Right, But it wasn't fully normal because you were in
Speaker 1: the news too, like everybody in town New Year's so
Speaker 1: you were.
Speaker 2: Well, they knew I had been kidnapped, but no one
Speaker 2: had known that. No one knew I'd been sexually abused.
Speaker 2: That didn't happen until a week later, when Daddy announced
Speaker 2: to everybody what had happened.
Speaker 1: I see, so so yeah, So my.
Speaker 2: Classmates at school they didn't know because I still had
Speaker 2: my ticket stuff from Disneyland. So when they're like, man,
Speaker 2: did that man mess with you? I was like, look,
Speaker 2: I went to Disneyland. And they're like, man, I wish
Speaker 2: he'd a kidnapped me. I'm thinking myself, no, you don't.
Speaker 2: But so nobody at my school knew I'd been sexually abused,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't until Daddy shot him a week later
Speaker 2: on March sixteenth, that you know the world would find out.
Speaker 1: And how how did that, how did that take place?
Speaker 1: Like I would think a lot of people in my
Speaker 1: audience have seen that video of do say and your dad,
Speaker 1: But can you talk about how he knew what was
Speaker 1: going to happen and what was happening?
Speaker 2: All right? So you got to go back to when
Speaker 2: my dad was in college, all right. So well, my
Speaker 2: dad was in college, he worked as a cameraman at
Speaker 2: Channel two w b r Z TV here in Baton Rouge.
Speaker 2: I ran into James Carville a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: to LSTRE football game and he was like, Oh, and.
Speaker 1: Your daddy was working a Channel two.
Speaker 2: He was so funny. But uh so, my dad worked
Speaker 2: at Channel two, and he also drank at a bar
Speaker 2: or restaurant at the restaurant's bar called the Cotton Club.
Speaker 2: It was a place called the Cotton Club, and that
Speaker 2: literally was less than a half a mile down the
Speaker 2: road from Channel two. So daddy knew everyone that worked
Speaker 2: at Channel two because he used to work there, and
Speaker 2: he was on their bowling team. I remember going with
Speaker 2: them and one of the reporters had the last mash
Speaker 2: t shirt on for like the last mass show that
Speaker 2: aired on TV, and we were at the bowling alley
Speaker 2: and Daddy bowl was so he was friends with all
Speaker 2: these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you say your dad was friends with almost everybody,
Speaker 1: like super friendly, garious.
Speaker 2: Yes, he was out at the bar, bought everyone to drink.
Speaker 2: You know. His job was His job was to entertain.
Speaker 2: He was a salesman, so I mean he had this
Speaker 2: you know, company card that he can entertain clients on
Speaker 2: and he that's what that's what his job was. Just said,
Speaker 2: make people laugh at entertaining and make them by their
Speaker 2: uh rent equipment from him. That that was his job.
Speaker 2: And so one of the guys from Channel two, his
Speaker 2: name was Bob Shadell, he's a program director. He looked
Speaker 2: at my dad and he goes, hey, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: when are they bringing your boy back? Talking about Jeff,
Speaker 2: And Daddy said, I think he's back, and he goes,
Speaker 2: they won't tell me. And that's when Bob Shadell said, no,
Speaker 2: he's not back yet. Let me go find out. So
Speaker 2: he went and he called Channel two and said, hey,
Speaker 2: where do they bring a due set back? And they said, oh,
Speaker 2: it was flight scheduled land A nine oh eight, And
Speaker 2: so Bob Schadell was like, oh, he's gonna be in
Speaker 2: at nine oh eight, and so he told my dad
Speaker 2: exactly what time Jeff was coming in. And so that's
Speaker 2: how my dad knew. And my dad actually was his
Speaker 2: weekend to have this because my parents were split up
Speaker 2: and we were out of our camp in False River,
Speaker 2: which is kind of like a lake, kind of like
Speaker 2: a lake cabin. And uh, my dad made it out there.
Speaker 2: But when he got out there, he turned around and
Speaker 2: he went back to the airport, and then he got
Speaker 2: on the phone called his best friend. He was actually
Speaker 2: on the phone. People they'll say, oh, you know, he
Speaker 2: was pretending to be on the phone. No, No, he
Speaker 2: was talking to his best friend. He told his best
Speaker 2: friend right at the lines back and they had payphones,
Speaker 2: and I mean he said, okay. At first he saw
Speaker 2: Mike Barnette because Mike Barnett came out to look because
Speaker 2: the cameraman was out there, and behind the cameraman a
Speaker 2: count a little crowd had gathered. So Mike Burnett went
Speaker 2: out looking by behind the you know, the camera, to
Speaker 2: see who you know, may have been out there. Who's
Speaker 2: looking for my dad or any of the other parents,
Speaker 2: said Jeff and the less of their kids. So Mike's
Speaker 2: looking and Jeff even said, my brother Sam, I said.
Speaker 2: He said, my brother Sam might try to break me out,
Speaker 2: or if he knows what I did to these kids,
Speaker 2: he might try to kill me too. So Mike's looking.
Speaker 2: Mike checks it out, and Mike the very beginning of
Speaker 2: the video, you see Mike kind of wave Jeff and Bud.
Speaker 2: The other other police officer, Bud Connor, he weighs Jeff
Speaker 2: and Budd around the corner where you can see in
Speaker 2: the video Jeff and Bud are talking and Bud's like,
Speaker 2: you know, if you see anybody, just hit the ground.
Speaker 2: And and Mike Burnette told me this a couple probably
Speaker 2: a couple of months ago. I see him every now
Speaker 2: and then. He he's actually the one that yelled, why Gary,
Speaker 2: why when the gun went off? And uh, he told
Speaker 2: me he said yeah, he said yeah, he said, me
Speaker 2: and Bud we were out in LA and he said, man,
Speaker 2: we tie on tight the night before we had to
Speaker 2: go pick Jeff up. He goes, So I'm walking through
Speaker 2: the airport, he said, I see the television camera and
Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, all these people are looking for
Speaker 2: a movie store, but they're gonna get but two drunks
Speaker 2: and a pedophile. And he said, right there when that
Speaker 2: thought went through his head is when that gun went off.
Speaker 2: And he turned around and he saw my dad and
Speaker 2: that's when he yelled, Gary, Why Gary, and he ran
Speaker 2: and he actually shielded my dad because he knew my dad.
Speaker 2: Shielded my dad from the other police officer who would
Speaker 2: dropped to his knee and reached for his gun and
Speaker 2: had other police officer pulls that gun out, walks over
Speaker 2: to my dad, puts the gun to my dad's said,
Speaker 2: takes the gun out of my dad's hand, looks at
Speaker 2: him and says, you son up a bitch, and he
Speaker 2: turns around to Jeff's dead body and eventually kind of
Speaker 2: rolled Jeff over. Eventually he would shut Jeff's eyes. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's how that all went down.
Speaker 1: And I mean in that it was reverberated, it became
Speaker 1: it's still kind of a viral clip. People are still
Speaker 1: see it's like a meme or something.
Speaker 2: But a couple months ago, yeah, I said, a couple
Speaker 2: months ago, I screenshoted it. Someone had posted it. I
Speaker 2: think it may have been the Father's Day meme and
Speaker 2: my dad and it said it was shared over one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand times and it had four point one million
Speaker 2: views in four days. Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow, And that's just in one spot. That video is
Speaker 1: all over the internet. Is a meme too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they got laser eyes and people always on Twitter.
Speaker 2: I was talking to my business partner because we're trying to,
Speaker 2: you know, turn the book into a documentary and maybe
Speaker 2: a feature film. But he told me, he said, oh,
Speaker 2: when you bring up sexual abuse, they just want to
Speaker 2: they want to shy away from it, which I think
Speaker 2: is a BS because I just watched a show on
Speaker 2: child rate, kidnapping and murder called Girl in the Picture.
Speaker 2: I just watched that this week or last week, that
Speaker 2: probably was this week, and actually the one the only
Speaker 2: cool thing about the whole show was a very terrible,
Speaker 2: depressing show, was that the what she had given up
Speaker 2: the baby for adoption when a baby grew up and
Speaker 2: had a kid, and at the end and the little
Speaker 2: baby's wearing an LSU shirt like where I went to school.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of top ten show. That was
Speaker 1: a top ten show on Netflix. People.
Speaker 2: Yes, so they're telling me, Oh, they're telling me, oh,
Speaker 2: as soon as you mentioned sexual abuse, they want to
Speaker 2: shot away from him. I'm like, that's bool because you
Speaker 2: can watch Larry Nasser Athlete one or A or whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's about molestation and rape. So I think
Speaker 2: what it is is they don't want to glorify my
Speaker 2: dad doing what he did and getting off from it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I know. So I actually I told my business partner,
Speaker 2: I said, why don't we try to rebrand it? How
Speaker 2: about we say why Gary? Why America's first viral video?
Speaker 1: It really is? I mean, it's still out there. And
Speaker 1: so that that shot one shot Jeff do say, dies
Speaker 1: instantly and what happens next in the whole story, your
Speaker 1: dad gets arrested, Well.
Speaker 2: They arrest my day Aould attempted second degree murder because
Speaker 2: Jeff had not died yet. Even though he was dead
Speaker 2: before he hit the floor, they were able to keep
Speaker 2: him alive long enough to harvest some of his organs.
Speaker 2: So I guess he was not completely worthless. He was
Speaker 2: able to do some good in his death. But so
Speaker 2: my dad of course was arrested put in jail. He
Speaker 2: shot him on a Friday night, so he couldn't post
Speaker 2: bail till Monday morning. When he got out of jail
Speaker 2: on Monday morning, he went straight to a psychiatric facility,
Speaker 2: or maybe he went to his friend's house for a
Speaker 2: couple of days, but eventually he was put in a
Speaker 2: psychiatric facility to be evaluated for about a month, and
Speaker 2: then after that he moved back home. My parents had
Speaker 2: been separated, and they had told my mother that he
Speaker 2: won't be drinking anymore. He can't, and so she welcomed
Speaker 2: him back. And it probably was I've seen someone suppost
Speaker 2: another day said, oh, I didn't talk to my dad
Speaker 2: for fifteen years, which was not true. Maybe fifteen days.
Speaker 2: But I remember sometime probably in July of eighty four,
Speaker 2: me and my dad and you know, my cousins and
Speaker 2: my brothers and sisters were all walking down to the
Speaker 2: neighborhood pool and and me and Daddy were kind of
Speaker 2: upfront and we were talking, and I just remember that day,
Speaker 2: just on a way to pool, tell him like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not mad at you. I don't blame you.
Speaker 2: I understand why you did what you did. It's not
Speaker 2: it's not what I wanted, but you know, I'm not.
Speaker 2: Just don't think I'm mad at you anymore, because at
Speaker 2: first I was mad at.
Speaker 1: Him, right, and you were kind of had a kind
Speaker 1: of conflicted thing like as a young person, which is
Speaker 1: not unusual in uh, you know, molestation things like you think.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. No, the abuser uses the child's
Speaker 2: affection as their their biggest security blanket. You know. I
Speaker 2: didn't want jeff dad, I didn't want him. Uh. I
Speaker 2: just wanted him to quit full with me, not just me.
Speaker 2: I didn't want him to move on to somebody else.
Speaker 2: I just want him to not you know, to screw kids.
Speaker 2: And so looking back, and I tell people all the time,
Speaker 2: I don't advise any parents to follow my fallow's footsteps
Speaker 2: because he got lucky because eventually, to the listening on
Speaker 2: its who don't know, he got sentenced to probation in
Speaker 2: community service. He didn't do any other jail time than
Speaker 2: that weekend, the night of the shooting. It's more important
Speaker 2: for a parent to be there for their child. Ellie
Speaker 2: Nessler back in nineteen ninety three in California shot and
Speaker 2: killed the man who had, you know, allegedly molested her son.
Speaker 2: She ended up going to jail and now her son
Speaker 2: is serving life in prison because you know, he was
Speaker 2: anger management. He ended up beating a guy to death
Speaker 2: because he stole some tools, So it's more important that
Speaker 2: you're there for your child. So don't look at my
Speaker 2: dad and think that's the right thing to do. And
Speaker 2: my dad got lucky because he didn't go to jail.
Speaker 2: He still had four babies at home that he had
Speaker 2: to take care of a wife, So I guess if
Speaker 2: they were separated before the shooting, the wife maybe didn't
Speaker 2: factor in. But I mean, he still had four kids
Speaker 2: and he didn't need to go to jail for the
Speaker 2: rest of his life.
Speaker 1: And you were very fortunate in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: because it seems like you adapted back into the society. School,
Speaker 1: seems like the community really kind of rallied around you.
Speaker 1: Did you get that kind of sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even today rarely, rarely, I mean there
Speaker 2: are your people who like, will you know it's not
Speaker 2: you shouldn't take the law into your own hands. And
Speaker 2: I got a clip my dad was on Sally Jay
Speaker 2: Jesse Rafael, and I've got a clip of my dad.
Speaker 2: Sally Jesse looks at my dad and goes, you don't
Speaker 2: believe in taking the law into your own hands, do you?
Speaker 2: He said, no, I don't, And she was but you
Speaker 2: would do it again? He said, yes, I would, so
Speaker 2: he didn't believe in vigilantism, he didn't believe in taking
Speaker 2: law in your own hands. But also he didn't believe
Speaker 2: that you screw with someone's family like Jeff did. So
Speaker 2: I guess that's where his mental anguish was coming from
Speaker 2: him because he was torn between this is my family
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna protect my family versus that I shall
Speaker 2: not kill and I'm going to hell because that was
Speaker 2: the first thing my mother told my dad. She said, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know you're going to hell and he said yes,
Speaker 2: and he was okay with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that kind of der whole book is
Speaker 1: your story, but it's also your career too, because you
Speaker 1: talk about grooming and how to you know, how to
Speaker 1: keep sites out for molesters and things like that. Can
Speaker 1: you talk about that part of your life?
Speaker 2: Okay? I would, I would say I would, I would
Speaker 2: qualify or say it like this about the book. The
Speaker 2: book is a manual on how to deal with child
Speaker 2: sexual abuse. Okay, not just as far as like even
Speaker 2: if your child's never been sexual abuse, how to act
Speaker 2: around them, things not to say around them, also signs
Speaker 2: to look for ways to reduce your risk. I mean,
Speaker 2: it literally is a violence I mean a sexual violence
Speaker 2: prevention manual with my story kind of being like we've
Speaker 2: threw out of it, you know, So it's almost like
Speaker 2: two stories one. So locally here in Baton Rouge, we
Speaker 2: had a teacher get arrested I think two weeks ago
Speaker 2: for one hundred counts of child porn like elementary school teacher,
Speaker 2: male elementary school teacher. Well, my sister knew a woman
Speaker 2: whose daughter took from that guy, and a year ago
Speaker 2: the daughter was acting really strange, and my sister gave
Speaker 2: that woman a book and said here, does my brother's
Speaker 2: book read it? And she didn't. So my sister called
Speaker 2: me last two weeks ago and said, you know what
Speaker 2: do I tell her? She's like, I said, tell her
Speaker 2: to start it chapter eight, like I find Danny. You
Speaker 2: want to hear my story, it's the first seven chapters.
Speaker 2: If you want to get to the I think it's no.
Speaker 2: Maybe chapter twelve. I said, tell her started chapter twelve,
Speaker 2: because from chapter twelve to up until the last couple
Speaker 2: of chapters, that is my career. That is me talking
Speaker 2: about real live things that happen at Victims Services Center,
Speaker 2: or real life things that's happened that have observed on
Speaker 2: TV like the Jerry Sandusky situation at Penn State. So
Speaker 2: it actually is is a very educational book, right.
Speaker 1: I totally agree. And you talk about examples like when
Speaker 1: young kids know certain things that adults know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Turtle Girl Turtle Girl and said, this is
Speaker 2: the fun part about doing the book. It's like, so
Speaker 2: I actually did hire a book writing company to help me,
Speaker 2: and so thirty five percent the kind of like the
Speaker 2: self help part, that's kind of what they did, and
Speaker 2: the rest is what I wrote. But uh and when
Speaker 2: they actually when they I was reading their original draft,
Speaker 2: they had said that I had taken the phone call
Speaker 2: with Turtle Gold, but I didn't. My person I supervised
Speaker 2: took it. And she came to me like white is
Speaker 2: a ghost, eyes big and you know, wide open, and
Speaker 2: she was like this mother wants to know. She thinks
Speaker 2: her daughter's being sexual abuse. And I'm like, what was
Speaker 2: the case. And for the listener, the girl was like
Speaker 2: five or six years old and she drew a turtle
Speaker 2: with an erect penis. And then when the teacher asked her,
Speaker 2: can I say it on the air.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, she drew an erect penis.
Speaker 2: And when a teacher asked her what it was. She
Speaker 2: used a slang term that a you know, comedium would use,
Speaker 2: and yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and so like a
Speaker 2: five six year old girl should not know what an
Speaker 2: erect penist looks like, let alone the slang term for it.
Speaker 2: So that was that was one example. But there, you know,
Speaker 2: there were a few other other cases, like the one
Speaker 2: drunk woman who all the guys were lined up, like
Speaker 2: she was so drunk, like she didn't even know where
Speaker 2: she lived. We had to look at her driver's license
Speaker 2: so we could take her home and put her in bed,
Speaker 2: and like she had no recollection of how she woke
Speaker 2: up the next day. Case she was taking pain pills
Speaker 2: and drinking, and if we would have taken her home,
Speaker 2: somebody would have taken her home and rape her.
Speaker 1: Right, So there's like all kinds stuff, And you talk
Speaker 1: about bystander interventions very important, like people can intervene and
Speaker 1: stop and oh absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And and there's certain things like I know,
Speaker 2: when it comes like going to a bar, you know,
Speaker 2: if someone's creeping you out, you can ask for a
Speaker 2: certain shot. And I think bors and then this is
Speaker 2: one of the thing I wish more bar owners would
Speaker 2: read the book, is that they would do that, they
Speaker 2: would put in the bathrooms, like, you know, we're here
Speaker 2: for your safety. If someone's making you uncomfortable and you
Speaker 2: need a ride, you know we'll get you an uber.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's all kind of that in there as well.
Speaker 1: Right, So there's just tips like real life tips and
Speaker 1: things like that, what a predators look for. Don't get
Speaker 1: involved in risky situations, you know, avoidance actually real things
Speaker 1: about grieving, coping, uh, surviving. Those are all really important
Speaker 1: elements about people and how they how they respond to
Speaker 1: kind of those you know uh sections.
Speaker 2: The most the most important thing that I tell people,
Speaker 2: like I think it's the most important thing about uh
Speaker 2: child sexual abuse is in order for someone to abuse
Speaker 2: a child, they have to get the child alone. So
Speaker 2: if someone wants to spend more time with your child
Speaker 2: than you do, that's a red flag. Actually it's a
Speaker 2: red rocket huge.
Speaker 1: Like that's it. Like they were they're finding some reason
Speaker 1: for some way too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I even I even I mentioned that because
Speaker 2: me and my nephew, I took him to the I
Speaker 2: took him to the LSU basketball game, but my brother
Speaker 2: called me. They were busy, they didn't have time. They're like, hey,
Speaker 2: can you bring my nephew Dylan to hit He had
Speaker 2: a basketball game. He was in middle school and he
Speaker 2: had a basketball game and they didn't have anyone to
Speaker 2: bring him. And I said, okay, I'll bring him. I
Speaker 2: didn't seek it out. I've never done anything with him
Speaker 2: ever since. But I was able to help my brother out.
Speaker 2: Now someone's constantly come on, don't come run with your uncle, Jody. Yeah, creep,
Speaker 2: stay away from him.
Speaker 1: Right, So there's a lot of warning. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of warnings on some people miss but like you said
Speaker 1: in the book, it's usually somebody very close family member,
Speaker 1: someone that you know and trust. Yeah, they try to
Speaker 1: get the trust, the whole element of trust. Jody. What
Speaker 1: would you like to add word about thirty five minutes,
Speaker 1: Anything you'd like to add or anything I missed before
Speaker 1: we wrap up this discussion.
Speaker 2: I mean, just again, I'll tell you what. I even
Speaker 2: have a free link to anyone who just wants to
Speaker 2: book I did. I mean, trust me. I want you
Speaker 2: to buy it. You can go to Amazon dot com.
Speaker 2: Why Gary, why it's there. I want you to buy it,
Speaker 2: but I want kids not to be molested. So if
Speaker 2: you can't afford the book, or you know you're hesitant,
Speaker 2: just email me. You can go to my web page
Speaker 2: Jodyplos dot net. I'm on Twitter at jploche H. I'm
Speaker 2: on fake book. You can message me. I mean, to me,
Speaker 2: that's the most important thing. But I really want every
Speaker 2: parent to read it. It should be sold in like women's
Speaker 2: hospitals where they have babies, like it should be. It
Speaker 2: should be given every parent. I wish, I wish some
Speaker 2: rich dude would listen to this and say, Okay, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm gonna buy a million copies and we're
Speaker 2: gonna put them in all the little hospitals where babies
Speaker 2: are born. You know. I mean, but it really is,
Speaker 2: and it really is an important book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're it's harm prevention. You're keeping people out
Speaker 1: of harm and going.
Speaker 2: Through the well, let me ask you this question, because
Speaker 2: I mean, I know you kind of you know, went
Speaker 2: through it a little bit, kind of you know, reading
Speaker 2: here and there. Did you find anything in there that
Speaker 2: you thought was funny? Because like I literally I tried
Speaker 2: to mix humor in there to where people aren't trying
Speaker 2: to slit their wrest when they're done. So I think
Speaker 2: I think there'll be moments where people will laugh out loud.
Speaker 2: I had I gave or she actually bought a book
Speaker 2: to this bartender about a month ago, and she did
Speaker 2: a review on it and she said, I've never read
Speaker 2: a book where I was crying and then laughing out
Speaker 2: loud in the same paragraph. So I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: go into that much detail, because you know, I didn't
Speaker 2: want like pedophiles to read it like penthouse form. But
Speaker 2: I don't think there's enough to trigger a victim. I mean,
Speaker 2: you might have to put it down and come back
Speaker 2: to it later, but I took that into consideration as well.
Speaker 2: So if anyone is a victim and is reading the book,
Speaker 2: and the only really negative review I got on Amazon
Speaker 2: was Old Crystal, she said, I'm bragging, and I immediately
Speaker 2: I screenshot it posted on Facebook and I said, you
Speaker 2: damn right, I'm bragging. You know, I was sexually abused
Speaker 2: for a year, I was kidnapped, my dad shot the
Speaker 2: guy on TV, and I turned out I was able
Speaker 2: to graduate from college, I was able to give back. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so maybe I am bragging, but I.
Speaker 1: Get that sense. I got the sense that you went
Speaker 1: through it and then you wanted to make sure give that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to make sure I gave back. So
Speaker 2: people who've never been through something like that and would
Speaker 2: wonder like, why would he keep going to karate, Why
Speaker 2: wouldn't he just tell his parents the first time he
Speaker 2: touch them? I want to I give you that. I
Speaker 2: let you know kind of what I was experienced, how
Speaker 2: they do it, and you'll have a better understanding of
Speaker 2: the topic this and then it's a scary topic that
Speaker 2: people don't like to talk about. But I think when
Speaker 2: you read this, you'll be comfortable reading it, and you'll
Speaker 2: you'll be able to learn a lot.
Speaker 1: I think. So it's very like accessible. It doesn't read
Speaker 1: like a self help book to me. It reads like
Speaker 1: somebody telling their story. So I think that's an important
Speaker 1: difference in some of these other books that are too
Speaker 1: too clinical or anything like that. Can you say, Jody,
Speaker 1: can you say your website again?
Speaker 2: It's Jody Plosha dot net. That's j O d y
Speaker 2: p l a u c h e dot net. And
Speaker 2: for anyone who's never seen the unedited version of the shooting,
Speaker 2: it's on there.
Speaker 1: It's on there. And so then it's ploche p l
Speaker 1: a U c h E dot net and people can
Speaker 1: reach out to you there too, so they have contact information.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very you know how I got how we
Speaker 2: kind of got in touch. Someone on the comments of
Speaker 2: YouTube mentioned you, and I guess they reached out to you.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm very, very, very easy to get
Speaker 2: in touch with.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thanks so much for your time, Jody, you
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Again, the full title of the book
Speaker 1: is why Gary, Why and a question mark. But congratulations
Speaker 1: on the book, thanks for writing.
Speaker 2: It, thank you for having me on as a guest.
Speaker 1: Good luck, all right, thanks Sta there strelright, stand there,