WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.520 Okay, how this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey 2 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:06.360 investigates on today's show of a very special guest. His 3 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.960 name is Jody Cloche and he wrote a book back 4 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:13.320 in twenty nineteen titled Why Gary Why, which I read 5 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.960 through today. Fascinating book, really interesting story. You'll probably find 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.120 out what his relationship is to some of these one 7 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:24.120 of the most famous viral videos out there. But this 8 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.960 book right now on Amazon has one hundred and ninety 9 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.000 three five star ratings, well deserved, and you can get 10 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:35.960 in a kindle and paperback. But Jody Ploche. Plache has 11 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.640 worked in the field of violence prevention since nineteen ninety five. 12 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.240 He attended Louisiana State University, where he served on the 13 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:46.200 executive board for Men Against Violence, a campus organization aimed 14 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.479 at preventing campus violence, including sexual assaign of assault, and 15 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:53.079 physical violence. Then he worked at the Victim Services Center 16 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:57.159 of Montgomery County in Northstown, Pennsylvania, and also worked as 17 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.240 a sexual assault counselor as well as a prevention educter, 18 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.880 and he has provided crisis intervention to sexual assault victims 19 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.560 on the agency's twenty four hour Crisis Outline as well 20 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.159 as through in person support at hospitals and police stations. 21 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:13.200 He's also facilitated sexual violence risk reduction programs for students 22 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.959 ranging for pre K to college, and he has served 23 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.920 on the statewide Men Against Sexual Violence Committee. In October 24 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:22.799 twenty two thousand and two, he attended the White House 25 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.959 Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children in Washington, d C. 26 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.760 Featuring Colin Powell and George W. Bush. And He's also 27 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:31.799 was named the Survivor Activist of the Year by the 28 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.640 Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. He shared his personal 29 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:37.840 story as well as the knowledge about working with survivors 30 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.840 of sexual assault on numerous TV shows, including Galdo Now 31 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.799 It Can Be Told, Maury at The Oprah Winfrey Show, 32 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:46.879 Lie's a Real TV, The Montel william Show, John Wall Show, 33 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:50.439 CNN's Connie Chunk Tonight, ABC World News Tonight in ESPN's 34 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:52.280 E sixty. But again, we're going to talk about this book. 35 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.040 He highly recommended. The title is Why, Gary Why, and 36 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.120 the author against Jody Clochet. So, Jody, welcome to the show. 37 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.959 Thank you for having me so for people and may 38 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.840 not have heard your story or this book, can you 39 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:07.200 kind of talk about your background and the story behind 40 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:08.039 the book. 41 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:11.479 Gary all Right. As a kid growing up, I was 42 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:15.719 involved in athletics. I played like I started playing tackle 43 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:18.159 football when I was six years old. I couldn't start 44 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.400 playing basketball until I was eight years old, but then 45 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.599 I played softball, eventually moved to baseball, and I also 46 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.560 played soccer. I would leave. I would leave one of 47 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:28.400 my football games at halftime to go to my soccer game. 48 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.360 With that. I had an older brother who was also involved, 49 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.800 and a younger brother who wasn't really involved. So when 50 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.280 I was in fifth grade, I got a flyer to 51 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:39.520 take karate. Well, I bowled the flower up and threw 52 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:41.120 it in the garbage camp beforeve and walked out of 53 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.560 the door. Well, my little brother he brought the flower home, 54 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.080 so my mother saw it and decided that that might 55 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:49.080 be something he can douse, so she put him in it. 56 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:51.039 But when she put him in it, she put my 57 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:54.000 older brother and me and a neighbor's friend agreed to 58 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.560 go and so we all started taking karate. The first 59 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.120 karate teacher showed up for the first lesson, then didn't 60 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:03.000 show up for the second lesson, so eventually our names 61 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:05.159 all the people had paid for like ten karate lessons, 62 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.439 our names would turned over to a young up and 63 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:13.360 coming karate martial arts instructor, Jeff dow Set, who had 64 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.080 just opened up his karate school and he had a 65 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:17.800 fighting team, and so we started taking it from him. 66 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:20.479 He was going to honor the remaining lessons. Well, you know, 67 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.120 after a couple of lessons, Jeff told my mom that, 68 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:25.319 you know, your boys are really athletic. They're really good. 69 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:27.240 You know, I think they could, you know, really do 70 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:31.120 good in karate. And so we agreed to continue taking 71 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.759 karate lessons from Jeff, even though once our once our 72 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:36.759 paid up lessons were done, we just signed up and 73 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:41.639 kept taking them. Well, unbeknownst to my parents, Jeff du 74 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:43.919 Sett was a pedophile and he was a child molester. 75 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:51.000 So eventually, after several months of taking karate, he started 76 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:55.599 working on me and uh, you know, he would try 77 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:57.680 to stretch us out and he would get real close 78 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:59.319 to us and hold us like, you know, push our 79 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.120 legs down to make is to a split. And I 80 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.039 think that looking back would be like the first time 81 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.120 he was trying to normalize him touching me, you know, 82 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.080 between my legs, saying oh, look, fee your legs are 83 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:11.039 tight right there when I'm doing a split, and I 84 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.719 think that that was him trying to normalize him touching 85 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:17.000 me inappropriately. The first time it really registered in my 86 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:19.680 mind as a child, I was driving the car. He 87 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.560 was gonna let us we're coming home from arate practice, 88 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:23.040 and he's like, all right, who wants to drive the car? 89 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:24.360 You know? So we all wanted to drive the car. 90 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.160 So I was, you know, I was first up, first 91 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:28.639 on Jeff's lap, and as we're driving a car, he 92 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.600 starts putting his hand in my lap and I start thinking, 93 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.560 oh my god, you know, and then it went away. 94 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:34.399 It was like almost like it was almost like an accident, 95 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.639 like that's what I was justifying in my mind that 96 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.160 was an accident, and it wasn't. That was him testing 97 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:45.319 my boundaries. And so after I didn't say anything about that, 98 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.839 then he started to do actually more, Okay, this is 99 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:51.759 an accident. This is you know, he's actually rubbing on 100 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.160 me while I'm trying to sleep, which led to, you know, 101 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.199 basically a full sexual relationships where he would perform earl 102 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.240 sex on me, then he would have sex with me. 103 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.160 And this lasted for almost a year eventually. 104 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.600 And you were what ten or eleven at the time. 105 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:08.480 Yeah, it's sort of when I was ten and it went 106 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:09.879 onto ten I was eleven years old. 107 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.079 He kind of ingratiated himself into your family too. 108 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.160 Oh yeah, he didn't just yeah, he didn't just you know, 109 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.399 groom me. He groomed the family. I mean, there was 110 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.680 one time he told my parents that he had injured 111 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:22.360 himself when he was like six years old and he 112 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.759 couldn't have kids because he had gotten his you know, 113 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:30.120 I guess private parts mangled on a fence jumping over 114 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.160 a fence, and so he couldn't have kids. That's why 115 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.439 he left kids so much. That's why I want to 116 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.000 be around kid so much. And I mean that immediately 117 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.800 when they first met him, may heard that story. Set 118 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.399 just kind of takes that that off the table, you know, 119 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:43.120 I mean any red flag they may have had was 120 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.000 gone now. And I mean there's a reason why the 121 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.920 average pedophile molests over one hundred children before their cart 122 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:50.000 because they're good at what they do. 123 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.199 And he was in your household talking to your parents 124 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:53.920 all that stuff too. 125 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:56.759 Eventually, yeah, I mean, eventually, you know it's like, hey, Jeff, 126 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:58.480 why don't you come over Saturday night. We're getting together, 127 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.720 So he came over Saturday night my family got together, 128 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.680 and so he became a regular. I mean he would 129 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:05.120 go to my aunts and uncle's house when they would 130 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:08.120 host a party. I mean so, I mean even my dad, uh, 131 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.879 you know, brought him to Sunday dinner one time because 132 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:13.959 he had stayed over Saturday night and he lived at 133 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:15.720 the karate studios. So Daddy brought him back to the 134 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.079 karate studio. And when you dropped him off, you know, 135 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:19.839 like I said, Jeff was looking sad and was walking 136 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.639 to the karate studios. So my dad got to stop light, 137 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:24.920 I mean the first stop light outside of karate school, 138 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.199 and he's just balling. He's crying. I'm like what he's 139 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.560 just like, he goes, He's so pitiful. He has nobody. 140 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.199 So my dad turned the car around, went back, picked 141 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.920 him up, brought him home, let him shower, gave him 142 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.199 a shirt fresh shirt out of the closet, dressed him up, 143 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.879 and took him to my grandparents my dad's parents' house 144 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.279 for Sunday dinner. Wow. 145 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.360 Right, so he's close to your family but also taking 146 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:49.319 you on these trips athletic trips, right, karate trips. 147 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.279 Yeah, we went on a few tournaments, went to Houston 148 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:54.600 a couple of times, I think, trying to think we 149 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:56.879 had a karate tournament here, it was another kind of 150 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.519 local karate tournament. And there's another time we went sparred 151 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:02.920 with another gym and a couple of towns over. So yeah, 152 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:04.920 I mean, it was not uncommon for me to be 153 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:07.199 riding with Jeff to Fort Worth, Texas in a van 154 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.600 with a bunch of other kids going to a karate tournament. 155 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:13.759 For he was also he was also kind of a 156 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.720 swindler too, like he oh. 157 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.279 He's one hundred percent of swindle. He's a con artist. 158 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.399 So the summer of eighty three, he had decided he 159 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:25.879 was going to use us as a business idea, and 160 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:28.439 he came up with these lsu bandanas, kind of like 161 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:33.240 the it's like a purple and gold tiger stripe bandana 162 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:36.279 and he called it a tiger right. Well, my dad 163 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.240 actually and my dad of course introduced Jeff to one 164 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.600 of his friends who was a local business owner was 165 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.839 interested in buying these bandanas, and so the guy put 166 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.639 in an order flight let's say, fifteen thousand bandanas because 167 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.720 he had like thirty stores, like convenience stores around the 168 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:53.199 bat Rouge area, and so he put in an order 169 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.079 for like fifteen thousand, and Jeff just spent the money. 170 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.240 He didn't purchase the bandanas with him, and so the 171 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:01.079 guy didn't get his bandanas or he didn't get his 172 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:04.000 money back. So he was the one that actually I 173 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:09.079 think Jeff was facing I guess going to court for 174 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:10.639 this guy in the money, and Jeff couldn't come up 175 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.639 with the money. So eventually, when Jeff couldn't come up 176 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.439 in the money, in February of nineteen eighty four, Jeff 177 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.240 decided he was gonna leave town. And since I was 178 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:20.519 his love interest for the past year, he decided I 179 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.839 was coming with him, and so when he'd skipped down, 180 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:25.160 that's when he took me. 181 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.040 All right, so you went on this thing, and your 182 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.079 mom had checked him out, right, so there was no yes. 183 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.840 The first time, the first time we ever went to 184 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:38.279 the movies with him, she called her brother that worked 185 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:39.919 for the Sheriff's apartment and said, can you check on 186 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.320 this guy? Now? Whether he did or didn't, I don't know, 187 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:43.960 but he said, oh, no, he's fine, Ain't nothing wrong 188 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:48.200 with him. And so so, I mean, my mother even 189 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.960 took that extra step to do a background check with 190 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:54.200 her brother, who was a cop, and Jeff came out clean, 191 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:58.679 which looking back, he shouldn't have, right. 192 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.000 And do you ever get the few that he was 193 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.080 also abusing other boys at the same time as you. 194 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:06.759 I mean, I don't get the feeling. I saw it 195 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:09.879 with my own eyes. There was a time where you know, 196 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.200 he he told me if I didn't perform oral sex 197 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:13.639 on me, he was gonna make the other kid do it. 198 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:15.159 And I said, we'll make the other kids do it, 199 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.919 and he did. He the other kid just went underneath 200 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:22.000 the covers and performed on him. 201 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.200 So it all leads up he's in trouble with the law, 202 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.360 gonna be in trouble. You actually involved in forging check 203 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:29.519 for him or something like that. 204 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.559 Yeah, Like, yeah, he had me signed some checks with 205 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.200 my mother's name, just I mean twenty dollars here, fifteen 206 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:39.200 dollars there. But I mean that was another issue with 207 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:39.759 Jeff too. 208 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:42.720 But he was charming. He had that that you say 209 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:44.600 you see in the book, like he was very charming 210 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:45.480 and was able to. 211 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.000 Oh, watch watch Criminal Minds. I've been I've been binge 212 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.960 watching Criminal Minds for like the last couple of months, 213 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.919 and I mean he's every bit is charming as Ted Bundy. 214 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:01.320 Wow, So just like a glib talker, really charm people 215 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:01.879 and things like that. 216 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:04.080 He could make people laugh. I mean, yeah, he was 217 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:05.480 just a common artist, that's all he did. But he 218 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.279 didn't care about nobody but himself. 219 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.080 So he decides to flee with you with not much 220 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:13.720 of a plan, right, just he was gonna go to 221 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:16.639 California and find a job or something. He had no money. 222 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.759 Agent, We're going to Los Angeles to find a job. 223 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.120 We're gonna, you know, live our life together. He's gonna 224 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.759 pose me as his son. And so we took my 225 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.759 mother's car actually to Port Arthur, Texas. That was on 226 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.919 a Sunday, And so that Monday he tried to get 227 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:31.600 money for a bus ticket, which I think he got 228 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.399 from his uncle. And then on that Tuesday, we took 229 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.559 a bus from Orange, Texas to Los Angeles, and my mother, 230 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.120 by the way, was told that Sunday we would be 231 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.480 coming home Monday. And when we didn't come home Monday, 232 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:46.559 that's when she contacted the police, and so the police 233 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:48.679 and my mother went to Port author. She know I 234 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:50.799 was with Jeff's and I knew I was a Jeff's 235 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:53.120 mom's house. She knew that, and so she went with 236 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.399 the police officers to Jeffs mom's house looking for me, 237 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:57.440 and we had already taken the bus like about an 238 00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.639 hour before they got there, all. 239 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:04.519 Right, so he's moving slowly and so like he dyed 240 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.879 your hair this. 241 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.600 Whole Yeah, he did. I think he did that in 242 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.840 a He did that in the motel room in Anaheim. 243 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.799 Once we got settled after I think he died hair. 244 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:15.720 After we got back from Disneyland. He took me to Disneyland, 245 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:17.480 and I think it was like that evening when we 246 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:19.679 got back from Disneyland. He died my hair black, which 247 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.799 was snow white blonde, and then he shaved his beard 248 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.840 and he dyed his hair. I guess he tried to 249 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.679 die blonde and it came out kind of red looking. 250 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:30.600 But yeah, he went that forward to disguise me. 251 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.759 Right, So then like he was just conning his way 252 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.279 across the country, right, didn't He asked find some guy 253 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:40.559 in a karate mag to get another six hundred bucks 254 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:41.000 or whatever. 255 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:43.200 Yeah, once we got to La you know, we really 256 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.200 didn't have any money, so he bought a karate magazine 257 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:47.679 and he looked in the back, and there was a 258 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:50.960 guy named al Garza out of Houston area, and we 259 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.960 had fought at one of OL's tournaments fairly recently, and 260 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:57.039 so he just he told al He said, look, man, 261 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.080 I brought a group of kids out to California. My 262 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:02.279 van got stolen. Can you please just wire me, you know, 263 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.240 just a couple bucks so I can get us back home. 264 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.639 And he sent us five hundred dollars Western six hundred 265 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:10.320 dollars Western Union, and Jeff collected five fifty. 266 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.279 Right, so that allowed you you were in California, what 267 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.799 three two or three weeks or something. 268 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.120 No, I was going to total of ten days, so 269 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:22.759 you figure a couple of days in Texas, a couple 270 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.200 of days on the bus. I think we got to 271 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.720 We got to La at like two am on that 272 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:32.679 Thursday of that week, so Thursday, and then he was 273 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.720 arrested on a leap year, twenty ninth. He was arrested 274 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.159 the twenty ninth of February, and it was a leap year. 275 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.720 And then I was returned home March first, and Jeff 276 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:42.200 didn't come home until March sixteenth. 277 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.799 And then the thing that he the mistake was the 278 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.200 collected call. Right, that's who yes crazy. 279 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:51.559 Well, well, and I think the reason why Jeff allowed 280 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.679 me to make the collective phone call is because I 281 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.759 think Jeff was out of money. I mean, because we 282 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.840 had been paying for the phone. The first couple of 283 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.200 long distance calls we made. You know, here's five bucks 284 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:02.960 for that call, here's ten bucks for that call. But 285 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:04.559 we were out of money, and so I think that 286 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:06.039 was just kind of like, Okay, you know what, let 287 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.919 me let me throw in the towel, let's let me 288 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:10.120 get arrested, Let's go back home, and then I'll con 289 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:11.600 my way out of this when I get back to 290 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.200 bat Urge. I think that that was his actual plan 291 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:15.080 at that point. 292 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.559 And he is what twenty six, twenty seven at the time, he. 293 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.519 Was twenty No, he was only he was twenty five, 294 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.120 one month and two weeks. 295 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.919 So what happened next? When you when the police showed 296 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:28.600 up in the Anahum? 297 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:31.399 All right? So when the police showed up and brought bus, 298 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.080 all right? So he allowed me to call my mother 299 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.799 collect which my mother asked for time in charges. What 300 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:37.960 that means is when the phone calls over, the operator 301 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.039 gets back on and I'm I'm not telling you this, 302 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.720 I'm telling the audience who might not be old enough 303 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:45.360 to remember the operator would come back on the phone call, 304 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:47.519 because when you make a collect call, you have the 305 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:49.840 other person pay for the call. And so she told 306 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:51.759 my mother that call was twenty minutes and it's going 307 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:53.879 to be you know, fourteen dollars or whatever the going 308 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:55.679 rate and the length of time was at the time, 309 00:13:55.720 --> 00:14:00.200 back in nineteen eighty eighty four. So excuse me. So 310 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.639 he's talking on the phone to my mother. He's standing 311 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.080 on the right side of me, on the right side 312 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:08.399 of the bed, and I heard a knock on the door. 313 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.559 I heard a key, and then I heard, you know, 314 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.679 like please, please, please, And I was sitting on the 315 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.519 bed closest to the door. They put guns on me. 316 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.679 They had guns on him. They took me, they pulled 317 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:22.720 me out. I saw a guy walk around a bed 318 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.360 and Jeff kind of went, you know, hands to the wall, 319 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.720 kind of you know, turned around, hands to the wall, 320 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:29.840 and the guy walked around the bed. He told Jeff, 321 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.039 I ought to punch you in the I think either 322 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.480 I think gd mouth or something like that. I had 323 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.919 to punch you in the mouth. And then they had 324 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.039 me outside by the pool area. And that is the 325 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.679 last time I ever saw Jeff again. I never saw 326 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:44.960 him after that. They took me from there to the 327 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:47.440 police station, where they questioned me for a couple of 328 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.720 hours and I denied everything. And then after the and 329 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:52.960 they were doing good cop and bad cop to me too, 330 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.279 and I heard like an overhere and going, well, you 331 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.240 go in here and you haven't explained what this was. Oh, 332 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.360 it's on the towel, and you know, he adopted to 333 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.320 explain what it was, and I'm thinking, like, what's on 334 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.559 the towel? Anyway, they thought it might be like some 335 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.440 fecal matter, but it was the hair dye because it 336 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:12.360 was brown, so they were trying to like intimidate me. 337 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:15.320 I went from the police station to the hospital where 338 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.080 they did a complete physical and a rape kit, and 339 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:19.919 so I knew it was only a matter of time that, 340 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.440 you know, that rape kit was going to come back positive. 341 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.600 So I just kept lying, kept saying Jeff never touched me. 342 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.399 They took me to some like home from neglect children. 343 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.120 I stayed the day there. One ten in the morning, 344 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.960 I fled at lax. I got to New Orleans at 345 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.679 six a m. And that was March first, and so 346 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.399 Jeff wouldn't be flown home till March sixteenth, which was 347 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.320 like two weeks later. It was a Friday. But in 348 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.480 the week before Jeff was flown back was when my 349 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.639 parents found out about the hospital report. That's when Mike 350 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.679 Bournette with the Sheriff's department, who had kind of led 351 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:54.799 the investigation, sat my parents down and said, you know, 352 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.440 Jeff had been sexually abusing Jody, and Daddy said, well, 353 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.480 I'm gonna killing and you know, Mike said he's told 354 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.159 many parents about their children being sexually abused and that 355 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.279 it didn't raise a red flag because most parents' answer 356 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.879 is I'm not killing, you know, or you know. 357 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:18.159 Uh, they weren't aware of anything up until that. 358 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.279 Point, right, No, I mean they they at that point 359 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.480 they had their suspicions. Okay, it was just confirmed. And 360 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.200 then once my mother sat me down and told me that, 361 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.360 you know, okay, you know Jeff fooled with you, then 362 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.480 I immediately I just said, yes he did. And then 363 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:35.279 I kind of told her something of what happened, maybe 364 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.000 how it started, uh, how long it went on, and 365 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:39.399 then she was like, all right, good place. So I 366 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:40.600 got on my bike and I wrote down on my 367 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.919 friend's house, and I felt like the weight of the 368 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:45.080 world had been left off my shoulder. I've been keeping 369 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.759 his secret for over a year, and uh, you know, 370 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.679 it just felt good to actually feel like I can 371 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.000 get back to normal, being a normal eleven year old 372 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.240 kick kid boy. That only lasted for a week. 373 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:57.440 Right, But it wasn't fully normal because you were in 374 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:01.120 the news too, like everybody in town New Year's so 375 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:01.519 you were. 376 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.200 Well, they knew I had been kidnapped, but no one 377 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.480 had known that. No one knew I'd been sexually abused. 378 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:08.279 That didn't happen until a week later, when Daddy announced 379 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:09.440 to everybody what had happened. 380 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.519 I see, so so yeah, So my. 381 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.559 Classmates at school they didn't know because I still had 382 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.599 my ticket stuff from Disneyland. So when they're like, man, 383 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.079 did that man mess with you? I was like, look, 384 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:23.720 I went to Disneyland. And they're like, man, I wish 385 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.400 he'd a kidnapped me. I'm thinking myself, no, you don't. 386 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.359 But so nobody at my school knew I'd been sexually abused, 387 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:31.279 and it wasn't until Daddy shot him a week later 388 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.960 on March sixteenth, that you know the world would find out. 389 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.640 And how how did that, how did that take place? 390 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.319 Like I would think a lot of people in my 391 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:46.759 audience have seen that video of do say and your dad, 392 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.480 But can you talk about how he knew what was 393 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:50.839 going to happen and what was happening? 394 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.079 All right? So you got to go back to when 395 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.160 my dad was in college, all right. So well, my 396 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.200 dad was in college, he worked as a cameraman at 397 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:00.920 Channel two w b r Z TV here in Baton Rouge. 398 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.839 I ran into James Carville a couple of years ago 399 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.400 to LSTRE football game and he was like, Oh, and. 400 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:06.880 Your daddy was working a Channel two. 401 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.279