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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone. We're recording at Halburn's Access Summit at the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Stock Exchange and joining me is Chris Russell,

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<v Speaker 1>who is the head of Tokenization chief Information Security Officer

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<v Speaker 1>at T zero Group. Chris, great to have you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm excited to learn about T zero and all

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<v Speaker 1>the great things you guys are doing. Let's kick it

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<v Speaker 1>off with your background. Tell us about how'd you you know,

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<v Speaker 1>where you grow up and how'd you make your way

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<v Speaker 1>into crypto and working at T zero.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, so my career started off and actually in the

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<v Speaker 2>intelligence field. I was in the US Army. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a human intelligence collector. They taught me Arabic, they shipped

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<v Speaker 2>me over the Middle East for a decade. But towards

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<v Speaker 2>the end I was doing some fun things and some

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<v Speaker 2>of that was finding people with placement access to systems

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<v Speaker 2>that we wanted to you know, have some information off of.

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<v Speaker 2>So the frequency in which we got caught, which was never,

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<v Speaker 2>let me believe that this was probably a good good

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<v Speaker 2>career to pivot into job security wise, because people are

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<v Speaker 2>just really unaware of from a social engineering aspect, from

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<v Speaker 2>an insider a threat aspect, and even from a tooling

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<v Speaker 2>aspect what's going on with their networks and if they're

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<v Speaker 2>really defended and what kind of information is leaving all the.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, and how did you first discover crypto and made

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<v Speaker 1>your way into the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't remember the exact day or why, but

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<v Speaker 2>I remember I was looking into mining crypto theoryum, bitcoin, whatnot.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was working at a man detection response firm

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<v Speaker 2>and every time I tried to load a wallet on

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<v Speaker 2>or download something, the screen tools would just quarantine it

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<v Speaker 2>and go, this is malicious. It would look at the

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<v Speaker 2>peer to peer connections, you unsigned binaries and go, nope,

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<v Speaker 2>this is bad. So I just piqued my curiosity of like,

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't supposed to be a bad thing, Like why

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<v Speaker 2>does scurity tools? Like what are they looking at the heuristics?

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<v Speaker 2>So I started looking at it from a security tool

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<v Speaker 2>perspective really first and understanding that. And when I looked

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<v Speaker 2>at it, I was like, this is this is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of cool tech underneath the crypto piece, the back end infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 2>how it networks, the way GATH works. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>what hooked me. It wasn't the necessarily the crypto piece itself.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, So give us an overview of t zero's

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<v Speaker 1>services and the blockchain and tokenization infrastructure services you provide.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure. So t zero has been around for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been there for five years now and hit the

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<v Speaker 2>scene pretty hard with tokenisation of private securities. It initially

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<v Speaker 2>was digitally enhanced securities, heavily regulated broker dealer space that

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<v Speaker 2>we live in, so they allowed like a digital carbon

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<v Speaker 2>copy of private securities being traded. But while I've been there,

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<v Speaker 2>we've moved to a full service infrastructure for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>regulated private securities, farting from transaging services to primary raises,

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<v Speaker 2>to an alternative trading system and secondary trading and custodianship

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<v Speaker 2>with our special purpose broker licensing. So you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>we're a place where you can modularly use one of

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<v Speaker 2>those services or use it from front to front to end.

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<v Speaker 2>And what we're trying to do is provide other companies

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<v Speaker 2>the infrastructure so they don't have to go through all

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<v Speaker 2>the licensing headaches and the finer exams that we do,

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<v Speaker 2>and they can just use our piece and plug it

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<v Speaker 2>into their applications and offer it to you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the world.

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<v Speaker 1>So what type of institutions are you using your services,

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess the contexts in light of the complete

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<v Speaker 1>change we've seen as far as the approach of crypto

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<v Speaker 1>in the US.

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<v Speaker 2>So right now, we've a joint venture called Link with

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<v Speaker 2>some other parties and it's a Treasury Fund redemption. It's institutional,

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<v Speaker 2>but we're trying to take what we're doing with institutional

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<v Speaker 2>partners and try and also find you know, similar retail

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<v Speaker 2>type products that we can offer. So ultimately, we're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get a multi asset platform where you know, retail, institutional,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone can come, UH, have access to these private you know,

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<v Speaker 2>private securities, trade them, get liquidity, moving it out with

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<v Speaker 2>what kind of assets they want, and so a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of transformations going on for the past couple of months

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<v Speaker 2>since Alan took over as a CEO and UH, And

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've noticed it, but the past

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<v Speaker 2>three four months has been pretty hectic in the space

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone's starting to I think, open up, open up

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<v Speaker 2>the doors for interoperability, yeah, and connectivity, and it's really

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<v Speaker 2>getting exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask you about that interoperability because

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<v Speaker 1>there's so many chains and we've seen these issuers folks

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<v Speaker 1>who are looking to tokenized assets. They're putting in on

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<v Speaker 1>multiple chains, So are you supporting them in that way?

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<v Speaker 1>And you guys select the chains you want.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we really want to be chain agnostic. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>talked to a lot of l ones and said, hey, like,

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<v Speaker 2>what stands you apart, what's you know what, what would

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<v Speaker 2>make you attractive for an issuer. So we get them

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<v Speaker 2>the right right utility they want. The chain itself doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>matter as much for us. We're trying to support all

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<v Speaker 2>of them, you know, as much as we can. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they all have strengths and minuses, they both, they all

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<v Speaker 2>have legitimate products have been built on them, and so

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<v Speaker 2>our job really is just to make sure the assurers

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<v Speaker 2>and the customers are kind of getting utility they want

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day. And we can use

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<v Speaker 2>any blockchain for that really.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely. So have you seen increased demand from institutions.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like there's a tokenization race happening. All the banks,

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<v Speaker 1>these financial institutions, they all have a tokenization or crypto strategy.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, I think everyone's opening up their eyes of

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that we all need to be interconnected in

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<v Speaker 2>a way for this to really work for everyone. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Previously there's a lot of silos, a lot of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>walled off gardens. These are my assets, these are my customers.

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<v Speaker 2>And that wasn't really good for the customer, was it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it wasn't really good for liquidity for anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't good for blockchain, right. The whole point of

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<v Speaker 2>blockchain is to you know, ease friction, not create more.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think, regardless of why the race is happening,

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<v Speaker 2>the interoperability, the connections, opening up the walls and realizing

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<v Speaker 2>we need to make it more seamless for the customer

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<v Speaker 2>is just going to be a net positive for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you guys are certainly pioneers in many ways,

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<v Speaker 1>and digital ownership is something that's going to rise where

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<v Speaker 1>people are going to put different things they own, insurance

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<v Speaker 1>contracts and you know, even tokenized maybe rare artwork and

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<v Speaker 1>things like that. Is that something that the folks you're

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<v Speaker 1>working with are also looking to build the infrastructure to

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<v Speaker 1>allow the average Joe and Jane to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be absolutely Yeah, we're seeing and we've been seeing for

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<v Speaker 2>a while, you know, the interest in artwork, collectibles, entertainment,

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<v Speaker 2>intellectual property. But there those are a lot of those

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<v Speaker 2>are would say very specific issuances with a specific product

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<v Speaker 2>that the average investors like kind of wrapping their head around. So,

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<v Speaker 2>as a couple people mentioned during the summit already, what

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<v Speaker 2>we're seeing now is a lot of interest bearing treasury products,

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<v Speaker 2>mutual funds, things that people I think can understand digest

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<v Speaker 2>better as a more foundational piece of their investment. And

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<v Speaker 2>then if this, you know, if where they invest allows

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<v Speaker 2>them to look at these other interesting assets, that's what's

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<v Speaker 2>going to come. I think. Sorry, leading with the unique

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<v Speaker 2>niche ones probably didn't serve the space very well originally

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<v Speaker 2>for real world assets, but I think they're coming along

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<v Speaker 2>and they're going to mix in well with the more

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<v Speaker 2>traditional investments.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and the education aspect is going to be big too,

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<v Speaker 1>to educate the consumer what is this, how does it work?

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<v Speaker 1>Why can you trust it? And you can even just

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<v Speaker 1>have it on your mobile phone.

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<v Speaker 2>In a wallet exactly. And I think people want to

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<v Speaker 2>interact with real world assets a little differently than bitcoin. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so the wallets need to probably have some work upgrades

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<v Speaker 2>so that you know, you're you want to invest in

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<v Speaker 2>a real estate token, whether prospectuses, you know, all the

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<v Speaker 2>paperwork for this investment, is it all on chain Is

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<v Speaker 2>it all available? Can you see it from your wallet

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<v Speaker 2>or do you have to keep going to these different

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<v Speaker 2>places to check on you know, that creates that friction

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<v Speaker 2>that they don't want. So we need to bring in

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<v Speaker 2>the experience as much as we can. And it's a

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<v Speaker 2>it's a lot of things for a lot of different

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<v Speaker 2>asset classes. But when you just start bringing that into

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<v Speaker 2>the investor's hands, so they feel empowered and they feel

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<v Speaker 2>like they can make good choices on their investments right

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<v Speaker 2>from their wallets.

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<v Speaker 1>Almost right. You know, as you were talking about real estate,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought of the folks of chain Link because I

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<v Speaker 1>saw them put out a dynamic NFT for a house

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<v Speaker 1>and that over time, as there's upgrades and things being

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<v Speaker 1>done to the house, it's automatically updating all the information. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>this upgrade was done, this was changed to the land,

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<v Speaker 1>and so on and so forth. I can't wait for

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<v Speaker 1>that day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the kind of information and investors really needs

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<v Speaker 2>to make informed decisions and understand. You know, if you

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<v Speaker 2>can look granularly at what was built, what was put

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<v Speaker 2>in the house, and you're like, you know what, all

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<v Speaker 2>these appliances are ten years old, These are only ten

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<v Speaker 2>rated appliances. There's fifteen thousand dollars specifically that I can

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<v Speaker 2>calculate that are going to be needing to be upgraded.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that's a you know, a simple example, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know you can you know, again, real investors want

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<v Speaker 2>to have that level of detail before they get in

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<v Speaker 2>on things. And I think the uh, the transparency that

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<v Speaker 2>the blockchain is going to bring in these regards is

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<v Speaker 2>going to help them.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we were talking earlier about interoperability and a

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<v Speaker 1>multichain world. There's not going to be one chain to

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<v Speaker 1>rule them all. Is it Also the same for wallets

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<v Speaker 1>that these institutions, many of them already have mobile apps

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<v Speaker 1>and the way to interact with customers. Maybe they integrate

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<v Speaker 1>a web three crypto wallet and they educate their customers.

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<v Speaker 1>The customers already have an affinity, you know, they love

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<v Speaker 1>the brand. That's the way to bring in the millions

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<v Speaker 1>or billions on chain.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think people have to have the mindset, especially

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<v Speaker 2>if we're talking about self custody of bringing your own wallet.

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<v Speaker 2>You're comfortable with your wallet, you know. Look, we're not

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<v Speaker 2>good as society with passwords, are we?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>And then we're going to do private keys and then

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to make people have multiple private keys. We

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<v Speaker 2>need to think about the end user, what's realistic. And

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<v Speaker 2>if someone has a comfortable setup with meta mask, then

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<v Speaker 2>we need to meet them where they are and let

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<v Speaker 2>them have that connectivity from the walts they understand and

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<v Speaker 2>are comfortable with.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense, and I'm curious to see,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, within the next five years, how that wallet

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<v Speaker 1>system and ecosystem is built out. And if it's big

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<v Speaker 1>brands like Apple or Amazon or whatever may be, they say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you already have our app, We've integrated this wallet. There

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<v Speaker 1>you go. But you can also we partner with this

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<v Speaker 1>other company and you can use the same wallet for them.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I could conceivably see that very easily.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think I've already seen hints from major corporations

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<v Speaker 2>about their in their tone into blockchain for that very reason.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not necessarily that they want to be the

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<v Speaker 2>leader in wallets necessarily, but they don't want to not

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<v Speaker 2>have that functionality on their application or device or hardware.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to, you know, again, let people connect what

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<v Speaker 2>they want, have it in one place and not have

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<v Speaker 2>to have some separate system. You know, it's about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's about user adoption and keeping people on the apps,

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<v Speaker 2>keeping people.

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<v Speaker 1>On the phone, right, Yeah, you don't want to cause

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<v Speaker 1>more friction and they get frustrated and all that. I'm curious,

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<v Speaker 1>after the Genius Act passed last year, are you seeing

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of developments around stable coins and demand for

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<v Speaker 1>stable coins?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so, our chief legal off servan Ness Savino. Anytime

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<v Speaker 2>something comes out, immediately digest it and puts it into

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<v Speaker 2>terms that meatheads like meat can I can easily understand

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<v Speaker 2>so we can operationalize it. And yeah, around three four

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<v Speaker 2>months ago, I think the race to have stable coin,

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<v Speaker 2>stable coin operability, and just again interoperabilion general has just

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<v Speaker 2>really increased. We've had phone calls with you, i'd say

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<v Speaker 2>competitors in the past that were like, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>this hasn't really worked for everyone to have a closed garden.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's see how we can just offer more to everyone

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<v Speaker 2>and you open up your doors, We open up our

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<v Speaker 2>doors and everyone benefits from that.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh. Absolutely, what's on your road map? You know, it

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<v Speaker 1>seems like with market structure, it looks like it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to pass this year. Do you anticipate a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>demand and even more adoption.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So regardless of which direction the regulators go, we're

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<v Speaker 2>in a pretty good position because we started off with

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<v Speaker 2>the regulated route of having all the you know, special

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<v Speaker 2>purpose book radio licenses for custody and all these other options.

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<v Speaker 2>And if they lighten the requirements to custody and hold

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<v Speaker 2>these things and create these things, we're still in a

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<v Speaker 2>good position because that means we have more partners and

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<v Speaker 2>more you know, rise and tide lift cell ships, and

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<v Speaker 2>so our mentality is either way, we're we have a plan,

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<v Speaker 2>and the plan is to be a multi asset platform

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't necessarily they have to run everything. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to be the crypto exchange behind it. But

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<v Speaker 2>we want to offer to our customers and we want

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<v Speaker 2>to give them a good experience. So we're gonna partner

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<v Speaker 2>with someone who can offer the things they want so

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<v Speaker 2>they don't have to have a separate one more log

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<v Speaker 2>in to another platform. So we want to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe there's a couple of different crypto platforms, maybe you

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<v Speaker 2>prefer this one. This all requires works, you can't deliver

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<v Speaker 2>it all in one ear. But the goal is to

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<v Speaker 2>be a multi asset, to make it pretty seamless, to

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<v Speaker 2>remove the friction, and I think if we can do that,

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<v Speaker 2>then everyone really benefits.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, Chris. I'm looking forward to the future updates

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<v Speaker 1>around T zero. Thank you so much for joining me.

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<v Speaker 2>Appreciate it. Glad to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes

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