Speaker 1: I can never forgive Thompson and Venables for the horrendous, calculated,
Speaker 1: cold blooded murder of James. That's a quote from James
Speaker 1: Bulger's mother, Denise Fergus. Today's case is one of the
Speaker 1: most horrific cases we have covered to date. It deals
Speaker 1: with death, assault, and children. A young two year old
Speaker 1: boy was lured away from his mother and his life
Speaker 1: was tragically and maliciously taken. This is the story of
Speaker 1: James Bulker.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and.
Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcasts and material
Speaker 1: intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion advised. Happy birthday, Ben,
Speaker 1: Thank you big old thirty six years old. Around the
Speaker 1: sun today? Mm hmm, celebrating it right, you're feeling it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I woke up with a release sore back this morning,
Speaker 1: had to stretch it out, had a good hot shower
Speaker 1: to help relax those muscles, got moving, felt a little
Speaker 1: better as the day went on, and it's probably going
Speaker 1: to repeat itself tomorrow because that's just what happens as
Speaker 1: you age.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, I mean, we're also on a road trip
Speaker 2: and I feel like my body just can't do road
Speaker 2: trips anymore. My back is just ft.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, We've been sitting in the car for at
Speaker 1: least six hours a day.
Speaker 2: At least, But I mean, I feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's got to be tip tips and tricks of how
Speaker 2: to deal.
Speaker 1: With that better. Oh, I think so, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: the answer is just yoga. And then the bed that
Speaker 1: we're sleeping on tonight in this hotel, Like, this hotel
Speaker 1: is phenomenal. It's basically just an apartment, but it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a firm mattress and I am a side sleeper,
Speaker 1: so I need a little bit more softer to kind
Speaker 1: of like conform to my curves of my body.
Speaker 2: You know, how are you going with that? So?
Speaker 1: Boy, Yeah, the firmer mattresses don't do so well for me.
Speaker 1: And yeah, as a result, my back was fucking this morning.
Speaker 2: I actually had the best sleep I think in this
Speaker 2: bed last night, really, out of all the beds that
Speaker 2: we've slept in. Yeah, yeah, well on this.
Speaker 1: Trip, not our own, gotcha.
Speaker 2: There's nothing like your own bed, nothing like.
Speaker 1: Your own bed. It's there's there's no place like home.
Speaker 1: As Dorothy said for the Wizard.
Speaker 2: Of OZ right exactly.
Speaker 1: We have some patrons to thank for signing up and
Speaker 1: supporting us behind the scenes getting that exclusive content. They
Speaker 1: had a exclusive episode drop for the end of the month,
Speaker 1: and this week we have one who signed up, and
Speaker 1: that one amazing individual is Mackenzie.
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much Mackenzie. For McKenzie and supporting us
Speaker 1: means a lot.
Speaker 2: It sure does.
Speaker 1: Now the murder of James Bulger. This is a rough,
Speaker 1: rough case and I'm warning everyone now this deals with children,
Speaker 1: various forms of assaults. It is heavy. It has been
Speaker 1: on our case for a long time to cover.
Speaker 2: On our list. Yeah what did I say on our case? Oh?
Speaker 1: Sorry, on our list. It has been a case on
Speaker 1: our list to cover for a long time, and now
Speaker 1: is the time. So here we are.
Speaker 2: It's been on there a long time. But when we've
Speaker 2: been putting off because it's it's going to be a
Speaker 2: doozy and I don't even know much about it.
Speaker 1: It's one that it's up there with some of the
Speaker 1: worst cases we have ever covered. So you're going to
Speaker 1: walk away with a fairly heavy heart after this one.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, what a good way to end the vacation.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Ben.
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, are you are you ready to dive in? Oh,
Speaker 1: we should say actually, since we are in a road
Speaker 1: trip right now before we do dive in our audio on,
Speaker 1: this may sound a bit different because we are, like
Speaker 1: we already said, in a hotel room right now, we
Speaker 1: have our road trip podcasting here with us. It's a
Speaker 1: different microphone, different setup to try and muffle some of
Speaker 1: the echoes. We have the pillows from our bed built
Speaker 1: up around us at the moment to try and give
Speaker 1: us somewhat of a studio sound. So it might sound different,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back to our regular sounding episodes
Speaker 1: next next week.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So with that said, now, are you ready to give
Speaker 1: into this episode? Okay?
Speaker 2: Now? Or never? So let's do it?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well. On the sixteenth of March in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: in Kirby, England, a baby boy named James Patrick Bulger
Speaker 1: entered the world, bringing immense joy to his parents, Ralph
Speaker 1: and Denise. The new parents had previously experienced the heartache
Speaker 1: of losing a previous daughter who was still born. Now
Speaker 1: James was a beacon of hope and happiness for the
Speaker 1: growing family. James was a happy little boy who was
Speaker 1: blessed with bright blue eyes and a mop of light
Speaker 1: brown hair. He exuded a very cheerful demeanor, constantly bringing
Speaker 1: smiles and laughter to his parents face. At twenty five
Speaker 1: years old, Denise showered her son with constant affection, and
Speaker 1: she watched over him with extremely watchful eyes like a hawk.
Speaker 1: She had, unfortunately with a stillborn birth before, lost one
Speaker 1: Chad at one point, and was not prepared to be
Speaker 1: losing another.
Speaker 2: That's really hard.
Speaker 1: However, tragedy would lurk around the corner. On what would
Speaker 1: seem like a routine trip to some shops just before
Speaker 1: James's third birthday.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: On the Friday afternoon on the twelfth of February in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Denise took her son James for a
Speaker 1: shopping excursion at Bootle Strand shopping Center. As the day
Speaker 1: went on, Denise stepped into ar Tim's butcher's shop for
Speaker 1: her final errand of the day, and it was here
Speaker 1: that her attention was momentarily diverted away from her son, James,
Speaker 1: who was at her side. Tragically, in this fleeting moment
Speaker 1: of distraction, it proved to be long enough for James
Speaker 1: to vanish into thin air panic quickly ensued as Denise
Speaker 1: realized that her son was no longer there, no longer
Speaker 1: by her side, she couldn't find him. She quickly quickly
Speaker 1: rushed outside the shop, frantically scanning the surroundings, hoping that
Speaker 1: she would see her son and the nightmare would end
Speaker 1: in a simple rush of panic and nothing more. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: as the seconds ticked by, and no matter how hard
Speaker 1: she looked, she still could not find James anywhere.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that is just brutal, that feeling. I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine either, And for her reality began to
Speaker 1: sink in. It was her worst nightmare that was unfolding
Speaker 1: right before her eyes. Her son was gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was not even three years old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just about to turn three. Gosh, with no sign
Speaker 1: of James. The authorities who were summoned to the scene
Speaker 1: after the they were after the shopping center security team
Speaker 1: as well. They were like, can you guys get out
Speaker 1: here help us. You know the layout of the land,
Speaker 1: let's band together see if we can find him.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you would think, because you would think he
Speaker 2: wouldn't be far right.
Speaker 1: Like he's one would think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably within the shopping center.
Speaker 1: So that's what they did. They focused on looking through
Speaker 1: the shopping center right away, and unfortunately, neither the authorities
Speaker 1: or the security team were able to locate them locate James.
Speaker 1: With the investigation now beginning, Denise provided a detailed description
Speaker 1: of her son's attire at the time of the disappearance.
Speaker 1: He was wearing a blue jacket with a hood, silver
Speaker 1: tracksuit pants, and white trainer shoes. The description was immediately
Speaker 1: passed along to everyone, anyone who would listen, anyone in
Speaker 1: the surrounding area, be it authorities or be at public civilians,
Speaker 1: be it shop owners, anyone who would listen, who's around.
Speaker 1: The description was past. The seconds Denise first felt in
Speaker 1: the moment of James's disappearance began turning into hours, and
Speaker 1: by four PM, an officer involved in the search began
Speaker 1: consoling the absolutely distraught mother while the others continued the search. Finally,
Speaker 1: the first break in the investigation came when the authorities
Speaker 1: and security personnel tirelessly poured all through the collected CCTV
Speaker 1: footage from the shopping center. While going through the different
Speaker 1: angles from different cameras covering several different shops or hallways,
Speaker 1: whatever it be, they eventually spotted James. He was seen
Speaker 1: leaving the butcher shop, in fact, only moments before Denise
Speaker 1: was seen exiting the butcher shop frantically looking for him,
Speaker 1: and the footage captured a very heart wrenching moment when Denise,
Speaker 1: you know, is exactly doing that, panicked looking around hoping
Speaker 1: to find her son.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a complete nightmare for.
Speaker 1: Her exactly, and she is oblivion to where he is.
Speaker 1: And in the cameras it shows that he's venturing to
Speaker 1: the upper floor, trailing behind two older preteen boys, with
Speaker 1: her standing there on the floor none the wiser.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so was like heading back into the mall
Speaker 2: with these boys.
Speaker 1: In the mall, but heading up to the second floor. Okay.
Speaker 1: The grainy images from the CCTV revealed the last moment
Speaker 1: of James before disappearing with the two older boys. One
Speaker 1: of the boys was holding James's hand, leading him towards
Speaker 1: the exit, their path directed towards Leeds Liverpool Canal.
Speaker 2: Huh Okay.
Speaker 1: It would be Sunday, February fourteenth, nineteen ninety three, Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1: The day dawned with James now missing for two heart
Speaker 1: wrenching days. Both police and James's family had exhausted every
Speaker 1: avenue of their desperate search efforts. Patrol cars had cruised
Speaker 1: the streets, their loud speakers pleading for end in Press
Speaker 1: conferences had been held urging the two boys spotted in
Speaker 1: the Straw shopping center to come forward, and a relentless
Speaker 1: man hunt had scoured the nearby canals, which was where
Speaker 1: they were rass headed, and the wastelands. However, any flicker
Speaker 1: of hope for a joyful reunion was about to be extinguished.
Speaker 1: A breathless young boy burst through the doors in Walton
Speaker 1: Lane Police station with grim news A body had been
Speaker 1: discovered on the railway tracks a mere one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty yards from the station's rear entrance. One unfolded necks
Speaker 1: was a horror that put a pit in the stomach
Speaker 1: of the entire nation. The police were confronted with the
Speaker 1: grim reality of a murder investigation, faced with a daunting
Speaker 1: task of tracking down two young boys involved in the
Speaker 1: chilling events, because right now they stood over the gruesome
Speaker 1: remains of the dis east two year old James Bulger.
Speaker 2: No, why, why.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't just spill it all right now? We
Speaker 1: got a story to tell here.
Speaker 2: I am aware of that, but what the actual fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, his remains were in rough shape as well, which
Speaker 1: we will get into later. But being on the train tracks,
Speaker 1: he was run over by a train and his body
Speaker 1: was severed.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, yes, okay, brutal.
Speaker 1: So Following the horrible and tragic news of James's murder,
Speaker 1: emotions within the Liverpool community reached a boiling point along
Speaker 1: the bank near where his body was discovered. An outpouring
Speaker 1: of grief took form in it took the form of
Speaker 1: hundreds of flowers being laid in tribute to the young
Speaker 1: life that was lost. Among them, chillingly was a bouquet
Speaker 1: placed by someone who was actually who would actually later
Speaker 1: be idea as one of James's own murderers. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of almost disgusting, almost soiling the entire tribute itself,
Speaker 1: really right, But still, regardless of this dark piece finding
Speaker 1: its way in the memorial, the sea of flowers stood
Speaker 1: in James's name, which is kind of We just covered
Speaker 1: a case on Patreon where an individual offered condolences to
Speaker 1: a family when he in fact was the one who
Speaker 1: did the killing, so it's very similar in this instant
Speaker 1: that the perpetrator is the one doing this act of
Speaker 1: quote kindness if you will, to the family who's lost
Speaker 1: a loved one.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think like it's not uncommon for
Speaker 2: at funerals for investigators to go if the person who
Speaker 2: died was murdered, right, because chances are they maybe knew
Speaker 2: their murderer or the murderer is there in attendance at
Speaker 2: the funeral exactly, So beyond disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're there for not only of course paying respect,
Speaker 1: but investigative purposes as well. Yeah, they could even be
Speaker 1: watching people's faces and their reaction to the memorial, like
Speaker 1: why is that person not crying? Why is that person
Speaker 1: crying as much as they're crying, like things like that, looking.
Speaker 2: For those cues or who's here and why would they
Speaker 2: be here kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yet one hundred percent. Now, as the community grieved,
Speaker 1: the authorities were hard working at the case, trying to
Speaker 1: make any lead that they could to figure anything out.
Speaker 1: With only the grainy images from the CCTV cameras capturing
Speaker 1: James's subduction, the police were left with very little to do.
Speaker 1: Determined though, to track down the two older boys seen
Speaker 1: leading him away from the shopping center, though, they began
Speaker 1: attempting to enhance the footage to hopefully, in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form, discern the two and come up with
Speaker 1: an identity. Thankfully, the community rally behind the authorities and
Speaker 1: gave anything they could as far as information, you know,
Speaker 1: what they had seen or heard on you know, anything,
Speaker 1: basically whatever they could do to help make an arrest. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: this turned out one instance, on Tuesday, February sixteenth, due
Speaker 1: to information that was passed on to police, they made
Speaker 1: an arrest. But unfortunately, like I said, this turned out
Speaker 1: to be a false lead, and it was an innocent boy,
Speaker 1: someone who had given some information, be it false or
Speaker 1: whether they mistook identity, whatever the situation, it was unfortunately
Speaker 1: an innocent individual. He was not one of the individuals
Speaker 1: seen on the footage. However, with the community so wound
Speaker 1: tight over this incident, and I mean understandably so, and
Speaker 1: the witness and there was witnesses who saw the arrest,
Speaker 1: people began to talk and draw on conclusions. So this
Speaker 1: is actually an innocent boy who is not involved whatsoever.
Speaker 1: But the community now ceases kid as someone who was
Speaker 1: arrested and he must be the one who who did
Speaker 1: something was responsible just.
Speaker 2: Being like spread like wild wildfire, and then.
Speaker 1: It became a witch hunt of sort, with an angry
Speaker 1: public wanting to seek retribution for James and the innocent boy,
Speaker 1: who is now set free from the police after being
Speaker 1: found innocent, had to leave his home with his family
Speaker 1: for fear of their own safety.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that is not okay though, no.
Speaker 1: No, need, it's not. It's an unfortunate situation and it's
Speaker 1: not something super important to the story, but I did
Speaker 1: want to keep it in here to drive home the
Speaker 1: importance of like the moral of this. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: classic two rights don't make a wrong if they if
Speaker 1: they stayed in their home, they very well could have
Speaker 1: turned out to be two innocent young boys who could
Speaker 1: have lost their life in this story. But they fled
Speaker 1: for their own safety and thankfully they remained safe. But
Speaker 1: it's unreasonab that it's unreasonable.
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes it does make sense, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. And I'm almost kind of thinking to
Speaker 2: the police, maybe, you know, I should have communicated something
Speaker 2: in a better way of sorts because that But what
Speaker 2: do they do?
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I mean, yeah, you can only hold
Speaker 1: someone for so long, Right, they have no evidence to
Speaker 1: hold this kid, so he they let him free, Then
Speaker 1: what do you do?
Speaker 2: And people just took took the rumor and ran kind
Speaker 2: of exactly.
Speaker 1: Even if you do a press conference, you can't have
Speaker 1: a press conference with cameras and news sources, like as
Speaker 1: someone is walking out the door. You've got to get
Speaker 1: fact straight. You got to set stuff up like it
Speaker 1: takes time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's too bad though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyways, I wanted to drive that moral home
Speaker 1: that the two wrongs thing don't make a right, so
Speaker 1: it don't take like, don't take these things into your
Speaker 1: own hands. You know, the law generally speaking, anyways, not
Speaker 1: always as we know in this show, generally speaking, will
Speaker 1: at least do its best to try and make those rights.
Speaker 1: But anyways, I digress. So while this was all going on,
Speaker 1: a woman seemed to recognize the grainy figures from the
Speaker 1: footage that was released, and she recognized them as Robert
Speaker 1: Thompson and John Venables, known as two young troublemakers in
Speaker 1: the area. Now, quick check of the school registry would
Speaker 1: actually provide a very solid alibi for the two, right,
Speaker 1: Like if they're in school, their attendance is there, then
Speaker 1: how could they have been the ones at the mall right?
Speaker 1: Unfortunately this confirmed their absence from class that very same
Speaker 1: day when James had vanished.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, they.
Speaker 1: Were not at school. So it was on Thursday, February eighteenth.
Speaker 1: The police decided they needed to act quickly on this
Speaker 1: new information. Undercover officers in playing clothes and unmarked cars
Speaker 1: were dispatched to arrest both the boys. Because they learned
Speaker 1: from that first incident, they wanted to keep this as
Speaker 1: quiet as point.
Speaker 2: Okay, they learned from that. That's good. Yes, that's something
Speaker 2: you can only ever hope for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they wanted to keep it quieter than last time.
Speaker 1: What if it's a mistake, even if it's not, you
Speaker 1: want to make sure that you you deal with this
Speaker 1: properly and that it doesn't explode into something more.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, what's the saying innocent until proven guilty?
Speaker 1: Exactly? So. Robert Thompson was a ten year old boy.
Speaker 1: He was with his mom and two or sorry, he
Speaker 1: lives lived with his mom and two younger brothers. Now
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, which I and me play some insight into
Speaker 1: Robert's upbringing and behavior. His four older brothers had all
Speaker 1: been taken into foster care. So he had lived with
Speaker 1: you know, his two younger brothers, but he had four
Speaker 1: older ones. They don't live with him anymore. Foster care
Speaker 1: sort of situation, right, So might provide some insight. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of psychology stuff behind this case that
Speaker 1: people talk about, but we're not diving into that, but
Speaker 1: just a little tidbit for food for thought. So upon
Speaker 1: arrival for Robert Thompson's arrest, the police quickly noted the
Speaker 1: proximity of his house and just how close it was
Speaker 1: to the scene where James's body was found. Rather close. Now,
Speaker 1: John Venables was also ten years old, and he came
Speaker 1: from a family with divorced parents since he was only
Speaker 1: three years old when his parents would ultimately that from
Speaker 1: then on share joint custody of him and his two siblings.
Speaker 1: When police arrived to arrest him, he had appeared at
Speaker 1: the top of the staircase before the officers. They were
Speaker 1: immediately taken aback. Here he stood staring down, you know,
Speaker 1: to the officers as they looked up to him, a
Speaker 1: possible killer. He was only ten years old and was
Speaker 1: very unusually small and timid looking for his age. The
Speaker 1: police are making eye contact with what could be a murderer, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Which would not be what they normally are expecting. Definitely,
Speaker 2: not someone who did something like that.
Speaker 1: This small child could potentially be responsible for this, yeight.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the officer's mind though, it immediately became because of
Speaker 1: this seeing this, this individual, they're looking at this, like
Speaker 1: I said, already child, Yeah, they became it became increasingly
Speaker 1: evident to them basically at this little ten year old
Speaker 1: boy that they were staring at, I mean now in
Speaker 1: handcuffs and in their custody, couldn't possibly be the one
Speaker 1: responsible for what had happened to James. These two boys
Speaker 1: that they have in custody, how could they be responsible? Right?
Speaker 2: Well? Ten? Yeah, ten years old is very young.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So even when they had these two in custody,
Speaker 1: they were actually still pressing for answers from the public
Speaker 1: and trying to get more information. They were certain that
Speaker 1: there must be two older boys out there that they've
Speaker 1: mistaken these two for, and that they're actually looking for
Speaker 1: other individuals. But still they're doing their due diligence and
Speaker 1: they're looking into these two and where they were, and
Speaker 1: you know, of course what people had said or the tips.
Speaker 2: Or whatever, right, So, yeah, because you think, just off
Speaker 2: the top of my head that you would be thinking
Speaker 2: the they would be at least fourteen, like fifteen or
Speaker 2: sixteen or something and all, not ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, these aren't even teenagers. Yeah, they're not even thirteen.
Speaker 1: They're not even twelve, they're not eleven, they're ten. They've
Speaker 1: just entered enter double digit numbers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a preteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, barely barely a preteen really. So, while dismissing the
Speaker 1: boys as potential murderers, Superintended and Intendered Intendant Albert Kirby
Speaker 1: was still ear to question both of them. He and
Speaker 1: every other single officer involved was convinced that they were looking,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, for older teens, but still they pressed forward.
Speaker 1: On Thursday, February eighteenth, the interview with the two boys
Speaker 1: began the same day of their arrest. Thompson found himself
Speaker 1: at Walton Lane Police Station, while Venables was taken to
Speaker 1: Liverpool's Lower Lane Police station. Both boys underwent the process
Speaker 1: at providing blood, hair and fingernail samples. With this process,
Speaker 1: the police ventured into uncharted territory regarding both questions and investigations,
Speaker 1: since no one had ever interviewed potential child murder suspects before.
Speaker 1: Many of their tactics are tailored to adults and how
Speaker 1: their psychology works, but with children, everything is different, and
Speaker 1: it left investigators stumped as to how they should really
Speaker 1: approach the situation.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because you're almost thinking too, you probably have
Speaker 2: to have like parents consent on so much too. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't even know how that would work.
Speaker 1: Actually, well, I mean there's certain things like that. I
Speaker 1: don't think consent really matters, because I mean, this is
Speaker 1: an investigation potential murder. Like rights only go so far
Speaker 1: no matter what your age is, right, Like, if if
Speaker 1: you're a murder suspect, it's not like, well, you can't
Speaker 1: talk to my child. It's my child, I'll discipline as
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's not how it's going to go
Speaker 1: on a murder investigation, right I guess.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, just the thought of them taking your kid though, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, no fair enough, But I mean that goes
Speaker 1: with adults. Hey that's my that's my twenty year old,
Speaker 1: eight years old boy, Like you can't do he's innocent? Yeah,
Speaker 1: sure he is, Grandma, So it's the same sort of situation.
Speaker 1: Rights only go so far when you commit a crime,
Speaker 1: so true. But one thing that they really needed to
Speaker 1: do though, and this was the biggest part of it.
Speaker 1: Whatever they did, they needed to ensure that it was
Speaker 1: clear that the boys comprehended the gravity of their statements
Speaker 1: to police, and they understood the distinctions between truth and falsehood,
Speaker 1: you know, right or wrong. That was the biggest thing,
Speaker 1: ensuring that they understand this, Like adults understand this concept
Speaker 1: rather easily, of course, aside from like someone struggling with
Speaker 1: mental health or other issues that prevent certain cognitive understandings.
Speaker 1: But children, on the other hand, don't necessarily know this
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: Right, They're still learning it.
Speaker 1: They're still learning it, their brains are still developing, right.
Speaker 1: So this was the first and foremost thing that officers
Speaker 1: needed to ensure that occurred. They began by administering very
Speaker 1: specific questions that were designed to ascertain if these boys
Speaker 1: did in fact understand the important piece of the puzzle,
Speaker 1: like do you understand how significant this is? Do you
Speaker 1: understand right? Wrong? All of that now. Both boys passed
Speaker 1: this questioning, and it paved the way for the interrogation
Speaker 1: to finally begin. Accompanied by their mothers and legal representation,
Speaker 1: both boys faced the police questioning with varying degrees of composure,
Speaker 1: Venables displayed his youth with hysterical and was gripped quite
Speaker 1: a bit by fear. Understandably, you're being interrogated by officers
Speaker 1: for potential murder, right, and he was expressing like a
Speaker 1: lot of fear about the prospect of going to jail.
Speaker 2: So, I mean I understand that, like at these ten well, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'm just thinking, if they did do something bad,
Speaker 2: would a ten year old really be able to keep
Speaker 2: would they really you know, hide it or hold it in?
Speaker 1: Well. In contrast, Thompson remained controlled and composed through the
Speaker 1: whole ordeal. Oh shit, yes, oh, which is very surprising
Speaker 1: and almost scary for someone of that age. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean many adults struggle through this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I've seen many adults in in interrogation videos lose their
Speaker 1: composure and lose it rather fast too. Where in this situation, no,
Speaker 1: he held himself together.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is a bit alarming to me.
Speaker 1: He's terrifying.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So during the interviews, Venables admitted to being in the
Speaker 1: Vicinity on the day that James disappeared, but omitted any
Speaker 1: mention of the stround shopping center, which is where he
Speaker 1: went missing and the footage was taken from. Eventually, though,
Speaker 1: Thompson disclosed their presence at that shopping mall and provided
Speaker 1: authorities with detailed descriptions of James's attire. So there was
Speaker 1: a detailed description that was released by James's mother trying,
Speaker 1: you know, like missing child, Here's what he's wearing.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: However, police were very taken aback by his intimate knowledge
Speaker 1: of James's clothing, Like, I don't know to what details
Speaker 1: he was able to give, but mutt more than what
Speaker 1: was released to the public.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: This was an extremely significant piece and it suggested prolonged
Speaker 1: contact with James. So before long, Thompson would ultimately confess
Speaker 1: that he and Venables had indeed taken James Bulger away
Speaker 1: from the shopping center. They were the two individuals seen
Speaker 1: on that CCTV footage leading him away.
Speaker 2: And Thompson was the one that was hysterical too, right,
Speaker 2: you said.
Speaker 1: Hold on, I got a double check. No Venables was
Speaker 1: Thompson was the one who means i'mcom coal collective.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So the truth, basically though, was now beginning to come out.
Speaker 1: And it didn't take long for the two boys to
Speaker 1: begin to actually turn on each other and start playing
Speaker 1: the blame game a bit. They were each shifting responsibility
Speaker 1: onto the other and obscuring the facts and what their
Speaker 1: involvement really was. Now. Thompson's testimony underwent five distinct alterations
Speaker 1: over the course of two days of relentless questioning. However,
Speaker 1: it was a seemingly innocuous question from Venables about if
Speaker 1: you can recover fingerprints off skin that set a very
Speaker 1: significant alarm bell for investigators.
Speaker 2: That is a question and a half. Hey, yeah, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, that would make it I feel like if
Speaker 2: you were in this scenario and you were the kid
Speaker 2: asked that like, that would just make the like hairs
Speaker 2: on the back of your neck.
Speaker 1: Right one, Why is he asking exactly like he's asked,
Speaker 1: like he knows something, He's hiding something. There's crucial information
Speaker 1: that's going on here. Why is he gonna ask, can
Speaker 1: you recover fingerprints off someone's skin?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because you may not know that. He could have
Speaker 2: just googled that at home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2: That's a terrible joke. That is very alarming.
Speaker 1: Your joke or what he said the question, how about
Speaker 1: both kidding?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Anyways, So as the interrogation went on, the police began
Speaker 1: to notice a troubling pattern in Thompson's behavior. Whenever James
Speaker 1: was mentioned, his anxiety seemed to manifest in subtle physical cues,
Speaker 1: such as shuffling his legs a bit. More so, it seemed,
Speaker 1: you know, just the mention of James's name it made
Speaker 1: him very uncomfortable or nervous, almost as if bringing up
Speaker 1: some vivid memories or potentially even PTSD.
Speaker 2: So that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1: So there's some alarming red flags going off with both
Speaker 1: these boys. By lunchtime on February nineteenth, Thompson finally confessed
Speaker 1: that the two of them indeed made their way to
Speaker 1: the railway tracks with James. It was a moment that
Speaker 1: I am sure investigators will never forget because in this instance,
Speaker 1: Thompson even impersonated James pleading and crying for his mother
Speaker 1: as they brought him to the tracks.
Speaker 3: Gosh, okay, I cannot imagine being in the room watching
Speaker 3: this ten year old imitate a two year old.
Speaker 1: Child who's terrified, screaming for his mom. And you know
Speaker 1: that some bloody shit.
Speaker 2: Happened next, it would just be it would be so
Speaker 2: mind blowing. It would be a case that just once
Speaker 2: in a you know, blue like it would never happen again.
Speaker 1: I really hope it fucking won't, that's for sure. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an impersonation that was so disturbing authorities. It
Speaker 1: sends shivers down their spines, and it's like doing the
Speaker 1: same for me. So I totally understand. And meanwhile, nearing
Speaker 1: one pm, Venables found himself alone with his parents in
Speaker 1: the interrogation room and reaching a breaking point under the
Speaker 1: weight of guilt, he actually tearfully confessed to his involvement
Speaker 1: in James's murder. They were unaware that police were tentatively
Speaker 1: listening to every word. You're an interrogation room. When will
Speaker 1: people understand you're not alone?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I get that the boy wouldn't understand, yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, but the parents, hey, yeah.
Speaker 1: So he admitted fully to his involvement in James's murder.
Speaker 2: But maybe the parents would have, you know. Later confessed that, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Know, I'm not saying I'm not saying they wouldn't, but
Speaker 1: it's just there's so many cases out there when it's
Speaker 1: like people are like acting different or talking different when
Speaker 1: the police are not in the room. It's just like
Speaker 1: you are in a station. You are being monitored. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't care if you cannot see the equipment it
Speaker 1: is there.
Speaker 2: Just there's just that thing about being in a closed
Speaker 2: room and a closed door. You know, you just think
Speaker 2: you're safe in a way, and.
Speaker 1: Police use that to their advantage. Guaranteed, guaranteed. So it was
Speaker 1: with this revelation that the authorities were able to confront
Speaker 1: Thompson because it was Venables, who you know, was the
Speaker 1: one who said this week. They go over to Thompson
Speaker 1: and despite his steadfast denial of guilt in James's death,
Speaker 1: the police believed they now had a mass submission sufficient
Speaker 1: evidence against both of them. So even though they brought
Speaker 1: this to Thompson, he's like, yeah, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: well I didn't do it. I don't know what he's
Speaker 1: talking about. They're like, yeah, okay, sure, we still have
Speaker 1: enough evidence. We're going for this.
Speaker 2: Still just hold and strong.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So the two boys they initially thought could have not
Speaker 1: been the ones to do this horrific crime, now they
Speaker 1: had enough evidence to indeed confirm they were responsible. And
Speaker 1: on Saturday, February twentieth, nineteen ninety three, the boys were
Speaker 1: officially informally charged with the abduction and murder of James Bulger, who,
Speaker 1: let me once again repeat it, he was two and
Speaker 1: Thompson and Venables were ten.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, you feel sick about all of it,
Speaker 2: but like I don't want I almost feel them being
Speaker 2: ten takes away from James's death, you know, but really
Speaker 2: that is like the main thing, the main it's all sad,
Speaker 2: but that's the main brutal outcome of.
Speaker 1: This one percent is Yeah, if anything, I honestly think
Speaker 1: the fact that they are ten makes it worse to me,
Speaker 1: because it's like, how can these two ten year.
Speaker 2: Olds even think of doing something like that?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so, don't get me wrong, Like, my heart
Speaker 1: is fucking broken for James, but it breaks even more
Speaker 1: to think that his life was taken by two ten
Speaker 1: year olds, because at that age, you're supposed to be innocent.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to be happy, you're supposed to like, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're supposed to be like playing, you know, making
Speaker 2: forts in the woods and shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so one innocent life was taken by two
Speaker 1: other supposedly innocent lives, which makes it all the worse.
Speaker 2: It does. Yeah, but I'm just what I'm trying to
Speaker 2: say is like, just because they're ten, I don't want
Speaker 2: to It almost seems like it takes away from what
Speaker 2: happened to poor little James.
Speaker 1: And yeah, or we haven't even really got into what
Speaker 1: actually happened to James or are.
Speaker 2: We going to get into that a bit?
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, well bear with me here, We're we're getting
Speaker 1: to the trial. So during their initial appearance, around five
Speaker 1: hundred protesters formed as an angry mob and gathered outside
Speaker 1: the courtroom. I mean, underscoring the immense controversy and high tempers,
Speaker 1: you know, surrounding this whole case and the intensity of
Speaker 1: public outrage even targeted the parents of the accused, and
Speaker 1: as a result, they had to relocate to different parts
Speaker 1: of the country and were provided with new identities under
Speaker 1: the Witness Protection Program due to death threats from vigilantes.
Speaker 2: Oh man, well, I mean it's not unexpected from what
Speaker 2: they did to that other boy, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically, yeah, they're like they're blaming the parents, right
Speaker 1: because they're ten. They're ten, Yeah, like you raised this,
Speaker 1: you did this, Like what the fuck. So yeah. Now.
Speaker 1: The trial commenced on November one, nineteen ninety three, and
Speaker 1: was conducted as an adult trial, despite the boy's young
Speaker 1: age of ok now at the time, being eleven years old.
Speaker 1: As they walked to.
Speaker 2: The courtroom, I was wondering how they're going to deal
Speaker 2: with this.
Speaker 1: Yes, they conducted it as an adult trial. Both Thompson
Speaker 1: and Venables denied the charges of murder, abduction and attempted abduction.
Speaker 1: So the attempted abduction charge came from a related incident
Speaker 1: excuse me that very same day at the very same
Speaker 1: shopping center, because Thompson Invenables had attempted to lead away
Speaker 1: another two year old boy but were thwarted by the
Speaker 1: boy's mother.
Speaker 2: Seriously, Yes, so.
Speaker 1: They tried once, were unsuccessful, and tried again, and god.
Speaker 2: James, oh gosh.
Speaker 1: And who knows they potentially could have tried with others
Speaker 1: but were not caught or successful as well. Wow, yes,
Speaker 1: so this was very clearly premeditated.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Seated in full view of the court on raised chairs
Speaker 1: of wo which both boys could actually see, You're kidding.
Speaker 1: They were accompanied by two social workers and guards as
Speaker 1: the story unfolded. As it went Thompson invenables had set
Speaker 1: out with the intention of abducting a young boy, ultimately
Speaker 1: targeting James. They led him to the nearby train tracks,
Speaker 1: where they callously beat him and laid him down on
Speaker 1: the tracks before weighing his head down with rubble, hoping
Speaker 1: to stage his death as an accident on the train tracks. Tragically,
Speaker 1: James's body was severed by a passing train after they
Speaker 1: left the scene. His dismembered remains were eventually discovered by
Speaker 1: a group of children two days later. During the trial,
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist provided crucial testimony affirming that James had
Speaker 1: died before being struck by the train. This revelation added
Speaker 1: a very chilling layer of what could have transpired before
Speaker 1: the train even arrived, and the you know, already horrifying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was going to ask that, but
Speaker 2: I was like, do I also want to know? Huh? Not?
Speaker 1: Really? Yeah, if I'm being fair, I kind of omitted
Speaker 1: searching up Much of the details known, but even still
Speaker 1: not many of the details are.
Speaker 2: Known, which is probably a good thing. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 2: for like James and James's family.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, definitely. However, I do have some more details
Speaker 1: regarding it to share with you. Police had also suspected
Speaker 1: or they had suspicions of a sexual assault aspect to this,
Speaker 1: and it was fueled by the fact that James's shoes, socks, pants,
Speaker 1: and underwear had been removed. The pathologist's report was read
Speaker 1: out in court and it revealed an additional, very disturbing detail.
Speaker 1: James's foreskin had also been forcibly being pulled back, which
Speaker 1: for some young boys may not be a natural thing
Speaker 1: to occur at such a young age.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, you're an oh okay really.
Speaker 1: When questioned about this aspect of the attack by detectives
Speaker 1: and a child psychiatrist named Eileen Wizard, Tom and Inventibles
Speaker 1: did not provide any details.
Speaker 2: What the actual fuck? Huh okay?
Speaker 1: So leading him to the tracks, they assaulted him in
Speaker 1: many manners, beat him, tortured him, held him down with
Speaker 1: rubble on the tracks in hopes of staging an accident.
Speaker 1: After they left, he had died of the result of
Speaker 1: what they did to him, and then his remains were
Speaker 1: run over by a train and he was found two
Speaker 1: days later.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure that they went back after that to see,
Speaker 2: like what the potentially because I'm trying to figure out,
Speaker 2: like my brain just going a mile minute, Like what
Speaker 2: the fuck they're like why, Like, why the hell are
Speaker 2: they doing this? I don't know, but it has to
Speaker 2: I feel like it has to be some sort of
Speaker 2: like curiosity thing which is beyond disturbing. So I bet
Speaker 2: you anything that they went back after to like.
Speaker 1: See they could have There is one thing I have
Speaker 1: in here that may provide some insight to that. But
Speaker 1: we'll touch on it here in a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, Okay.
Speaker 1: So, Thompson and Venables were considered by the court to
Speaker 1: be capable of quote mischievous discretion, meaning an ability to
Speaker 1: act with criminal intent, as they were mature enough to
Speaker 1: understand that they were doing something seriously wrong, hence, you know,
Speaker 1: being tried as adults. Thompson was considered to have taken
Speaker 1: the leading role in the abduction process, though it was
Speaker 1: Venables who had apparently initiated the idea of taking James
Speaker 1: to the railway track. Venables later described the heartbreaking part
Speaker 1: of the story on how James seemed to like him
Speaker 1: and trust him, holding his hand and allowing him to
Speaker 1: even pick him up on the wandering journey to the tracks,
Speaker 1: which would ultimately become his own murderer scene.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, I just can't get rid of
Speaker 2: these fucking visuals in my mind.
Speaker 1: Out I know, I can like literally fucking see James
Speaker 1: reaching up for his hand.
Speaker 2: Like a little two year old baby. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh so, the pathologist spent thirty three minutes in the
Speaker 1: courtroom outlying the injury sustained by James, including extensive brain
Speaker 1: damage and hemorrhaging. There were also many injuries to his legs,
Speaker 1: which had been inflicted after he was stripped from the
Speaker 1: waist down. It seems as though before the two boys
Speaker 1: had pinned him down to be run out by the train.
Speaker 1: That's when, you know, of course, we had already mentioned beating, abuse,
Speaker 1: torture had occurred. There was also a lot of evidence
Speaker 1: to suggest that much of this, you know, we just
Speaker 1: don't know the true extend. We really don't.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, as a results of the trial, the two
Speaker 1: boys were found guilty of James Bulger's murder at the
Speaker 1: Preston Court on the twenty fourth of November in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three, becoming the youngest convicted murderers of the twentieth century.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, and the mom was probably sitting in
Speaker 2: there right, Yes, yes she was. Is I mean, like
Speaker 2: we're here listening about this, and like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: so disturbing, but I just can't even imagine being that
Speaker 2: boy's mom.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine learning the stuff that that child went through?
Speaker 1: Your child, your little toy. Yeah, and it is one
Speaker 1: hundred percent not her fault because you can hold on
Speaker 1: here because you can never never have one hundred percent
Speaker 1: attention on your child. Never. And I know someone in
Speaker 1: her situation would have these tendencies to blame themselves. I
Speaker 1: know because it's a natural instinct. Well, if only I
Speaker 1: watched one percent, not her fault, definitely not. These two
Speaker 1: fucking douche canoes of children were watching for the moment, Yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking looked away.
Speaker 2: They were there on a mission, they were.
Speaker 1: And she could have watched in that moment. They would
Speaker 1: have struck it another.
Speaker 2: Moment well, And the thing is too, they would have
Speaker 2: gotten away kind of with it a little bit easier
Speaker 2: because I don't even think anyone would would see this
Speaker 2: little boy with these two ten year olds and any
Speaker 2: alarm would go off because they're probably thinking, like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's their siblings or something, right exactly, because if it
Speaker 2: was reversed, and it was adults with this little boy.
Speaker 2: You know, some people might notice or like see that
Speaker 2: they were upset a little bit more, but not with
Speaker 2: two ten year olds.
Speaker 1: Well, there was even a situation. I kind of omitted
Speaker 1: this one, but I told you they were kind of
Speaker 1: headed out of them all to the canal sort of situation.
Speaker 1: There was apparently a woman who had witnessed the two
Speaker 1: boys with James, and James had tripped or fallen or
Speaker 1: they pushed him or something and he was crying and
Speaker 1: she didn't report this. Who's gonna think to fucking Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably their little brother right.
Speaker 2: Now or cousin or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the mom will take care of that. Like they're
Speaker 1: right there, they're fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So your mind would never ever.
Speaker 1: Go to not in a million motherfucking years, No, never, No.
Speaker 1: So Judge, mister Justice Morland, love the fucking name for
Speaker 1: a judge, Mister just Morland, told Thompson and Venables that
Speaker 1: they had committed a crime of quote unparalleled evil and barbarity.
Speaker 1: In my judgment, your conduct was both cunning and very wicked.
Speaker 1: So Judge Morland sentenced them to be determined by Her
Speaker 1: Majesty's pleasure, I'm not exactly certain what that means. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure that's going to like the Queen because they're
Speaker 1: in England, right, so it's probably going to you know,
Speaker 1: the monarch of some sort with a recommendation that they
Speaker 1: should be kept in her in custody for quote very
Speaker 1: very many years to come, recommending a minimum term of
Speaker 1: eight years.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, because oh, I hadn't even thought about that.
Speaker 2: They're so fucking young.
Speaker 1: Yes, they're being tried, they're being tried as adults in
Speaker 1: an adult courtroom, but they are still children. You cannot
Speaker 1: sentence them like an adult. You cannot.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, they're probably already out.
Speaker 1: Well, there was some discrepancies and how to actually come
Speaker 1: down with justice on a serving term, and there it
Speaker 1: went up I think, to one point with the recommendation
Speaker 1: of being minimum of twelve years, but eventually, like through
Speaker 1: like controversies and debates and stuff, it came back down
Speaker 1: to the original eight. But of course there was a
Speaker 1: lot of controversy surrounding this case because of the young
Speaker 1: age of these kids and how this court presiding played out.
Speaker 2: Well, they did a very adult task, really though, they did.
Speaker 2: I mean, they should be tried that way, if they're
Speaker 2: going to do something that bad.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, honestly, not even a fucking adult should
Speaker 1: do that. But yeah, I know what you mean, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. But at the closing of this trial, the
Speaker 1: judge lifted reporting restrictions and allowed the names of the
Speaker 1: killers to be released, saying, and this goes along the
Speaker 1: whole lines of the controversy thing. But I won one
Speaker 1: hundred percent agree with the judge saying this quote. I
Speaker 1: did this because the public interest overrode the interest of
Speaker 1: the defense. There was a need for an informed public
Speaker 1: debate on crimes committed by young children. So he's using
Speaker 1: this as an educational platform for not only the judicial system,
Speaker 1: but also the public as well, which phenomenal. I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, he was right though for years this
Speaker 1: case has been a very hot topic of debate regarding
Speaker 1: how everything unfolded. And yeah, I kind of already said that.
Speaker 1: So now, on June twenty second of two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: having served their eight years, both Thompson and Venables were released.
Speaker 1: Both were given new identities and moved to different parts
Speaker 1: of the country to maintain their own safety. Holy fuck,
Speaker 1: An injunction prevents the press from publishing any details about
Speaker 1: the two killers New lives. On the twenty third of
Speaker 1: July twenty ten, Venables, aged twenty seven, was jailed once
Speaker 1: again after admitting his guilt to downloading and distributing indecent
Speaker 1: images of children, so child pornography. And I said, there's
Speaker 1: a piece that may paint some insight onto why there
Speaker 1: it is?
Speaker 2: Oh what the fuck? Yeah, holy shit, And they're just
Speaker 2: fucking out of jail now, Well they're gonna oh so.
Speaker 1: Ha, are you good? No, I told you this is
Speaker 1: a fucking rough case.
Speaker 2: Because that's the problem. They're so young, so they're going
Speaker 2: to get out and they're clearly especially I don't know
Speaker 2: about the other boy, but he definitely did not get rehabilitated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're just.
Speaker 2: Going to complete being like a complete garbage bag of
Speaker 2: a human.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Awesome. And we don't even get to know who the
Speaker 2: fuck they are? Correct that that is just not okay.
Speaker 1: I somewhat agree, but I somewhat don't agree. Like I
Speaker 1: see it, but I don't know if I with it,
Speaker 1: I understand, but fuck it's hard, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I see both sides of this coin,
Speaker 1: I really fucking do. And it's so hard to discern
Speaker 1: which would be the better side, because I mean, these
Speaker 1: these two kids had a fucking horrible thing. Yes, they
Speaker 1: did a very as you put it, like a very
Speaker 1: adult act, right, Yeah, but they were kids. If anyone's
Speaker 1: going to be rehabilitated, it's someone like this, that's true.
Speaker 2: But clearly the one especially did not RISCT.
Speaker 1: So how do you discern that you have to take
Speaker 1: a risk at some point with letting them potentially, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I don't know what that risk
Speaker 1: would be. I'm not educated enough. I'm not someone in
Speaker 1: the position in power to make that call.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you'd only hope, too, that there was
Speaker 2: some sort of like something that followed their new names
Speaker 2: that made it so they couldn't work with kids or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, there's definitely should be some fucking lines in
Speaker 1: the sand. I agree. You don't just be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I enjoy your new fucking life, yeah, a new identity.
Speaker 2: And may become like a teacher or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, No, you're going to be fucking working very
Speaker 1: far away from kids. We're going to be checking up
Speaker 1: on you every so often, and.
Speaker 2: You would only hope, but I you don't know for sure.
Speaker 1: But that means we could go fucking many episodes onto
Speaker 1: how the fuck that could play out. I see why
Speaker 1: they were charged, and I see why they served an
Speaker 1: eight year sentence. I see why they were given new names.
Speaker 1: I see why they were given out to live a
Speaker 1: new life. But I see why people are very mad
Speaker 1: about it. I see why they shouldn't. I see it
Speaker 1: all I do, And you can't have the best of
Speaker 1: both worlds. You just cannot, I do, Okay.
Speaker 2: I think if they were given given a little bit
Speaker 2: more time than eight years, it would be easier to swallow,
Speaker 2: Like it would be easier for that for knowing that
Speaker 2: they get a new name, because eight years isn't really
Speaker 2: that much wrong. It's not for someone to you know,
Speaker 2: like get rehabilitated. So I feel like if they would
Speaker 2: have gotten you know, a normal kind of sentence, like
Speaker 2: even twenty five years, say, right, like kind of the
Speaker 2: normal fair enough that after that amount of time, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe they could be changed. But eight years, I just
Speaker 2: I can't really see it.
Speaker 1: There's so many factors to consider in this. But anyways,
Speaker 1: onto Thompson. Though since his release in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: He has kept a very low profile and has done
Speaker 1: his best to maintain his anonymity. There we go. He
Speaker 1: came close to one incident, actually meeting James's mother, Denise
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four. She sought him out and
Speaker 1: she managed to track him down. However, she was paralyzed
Speaker 1: with anger and hatred and was unable to confront him.
Speaker 1: Unable to confront one of the men who murdered her
Speaker 1: two year old child, James Bulker.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really sad because that just sort of shows
Speaker 2: it's like her life going forward, you know, like it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like it's good. How would it really be? Though? Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 2: that is so sad.
Speaker 1: So the sheer brutality of the sadistic killing perpetrated by
Speaker 1: Thompson and Venables has surpassed any expectations of what two
Speaker 1: primary school children, except what they were, could ever be
Speaker 1: capable of. The word evil has since become synonymous with
Speaker 1: their actions and their names. That is the story of
Speaker 1: the murder of James Bulger.
Speaker 2: Well, that is a brutal story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not one that I enjoyed researching.
Speaker 2: No, gosh, I don't. I don't even know if I
Speaker 2: would have been able to research that one. Gosh, that
Speaker 2: is horrible, horrible, and I'm still I'm still literally on
Speaker 2: the fact that they are only eighteen when they go out.
Speaker 2: That is still kind of a child in a sense.
Speaker 2: They still so much learning stuff. They needed to be
Speaker 2: in way longer than that, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Well, technically they probably would have been nineteenth they were eleven,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. It all depends on like when
Speaker 1: the months fell and you know, but so, yeah, there
Speaker 1: could have been time served from being in custody. Who
Speaker 1: knows what?
Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, and there's, like you said, so much that
Speaker 2: we probably don't even know or never will know. I
Speaker 2: actually am surprised. How would they even go on? Like
Speaker 2: just knowing what they did is just no, I really don't.
Speaker 1: One of them clearly has some very disturbing tendencies to
Speaker 1: then come out of prison and have child pornography. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I yeah, no, I don't want to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: Never mind, how are you doing?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I knew a little bit
Speaker 2: about this case. I didn't know a lot of the details.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is just so it's so devastating. It's
Speaker 2: just such a it's just so unnecessary and such a waste.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, well I will end it on one
Speaker 1: little note. Uh, James's parents, after James was killed, they
Speaker 1: had another child together and they I believe it was
Speaker 1: his middle name was was James. They did name their
Speaker 1: their other son after their older brother.
Speaker 2: I was wondering that. I almost asked, but you almost think, like, gosh,
Speaker 2: the anxiety they must have, you know, towards this other
Speaker 2: this other kid too, right, Yeah, for sure, gosh, because
Speaker 2: how do you even go Florida after you've kind of
Speaker 2: lost to like it would just be you would be worried, sick.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure you already are, but even to
Speaker 2: more more of an extent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you you're one percent. Right. Well, we're it's late.
Speaker 1: We're probably gonna go go to bed now, and definitely not.
Speaker 1: If not, I'm not any sleep. That's most likely our night.
Speaker 1: So hopefully you somewhat enjoyed this episode. It was a
Speaker 1: very heavy one. It was one of those ones that
Speaker 1: we had to do. We had to tell James's story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it sat on our shelf for a long time
Speaker 1: with that daunting task of covering it.
Speaker 2: It does get recommended a lot this one.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 2: And then I just wanted to say too, just because
Speaker 2: we are on the road, we aren't videoing this one.
Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, so this this one will not be
Speaker 1: on YouTube. This is a strictly audio one. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we're a little bit behind with posting some video podcasting,
Speaker 1: so those will be going up here in the coming
Speaker 1: week or so, so just watch out for those. Go
Speaker 1: down to the description. You can find YouTube, you can
Speaker 1: find Instagram. You can find we have two YouTube channels,
Speaker 1: one where you can watch the podcast in video form
Speaker 1: except like Nicole said, not this one, and another where
Speaker 1: we dov logs and stuff about our lifestyle. There's also Patreon.
Speaker 1: We have a website. It's all there if you want
Speaker 1: to sign up check any of it out. All the
Speaker 1: descripts are down below.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah yeah, you need you need to have something
Speaker 2: like a ice cream or something, some sort of a
Speaker 2: little something to make your night a little better.
Speaker 1: I think I just need to like walk out into
Speaker 1: the middle of a field somewhere and just scream, just
Speaker 1: screw the top, scream at nothing and everything all at
Speaker 1: once at this world.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, well well done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Well I'm going to go do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for listening everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, until next time, stay wicked.