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<v Speaker 1>Love MNS quality and value you can trust. At MNS

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<v Speaker 1>shop in store or at Marksanspencer dot e.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's the guy at the falafel truck who

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<v Speaker 2>gives you extra hummus Ali ward. So if you come

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<v Speaker 2>to Ologies for the toads, but you stay for this

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<v Speaker 2>science based self help advice, this one delivers with info

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<v Speaker 2>on how to lift your blues with some suggestions that

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<v Speaker 2>make us healthier and calmer, less anxious, and more present.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode may alter the course of your life. So

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<v Speaker 2>this guest is an award winning author and a journalist

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<v Speaker 2>who has written for Time, Wired, Scientific American, the New

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<v Speaker 2>York Times, and she spent several years interviewing doctors and

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<v Speaker 2>patients and digging into published research for a book that

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<v Speaker 2>has been praised by Harvard University as the best public

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<v Speaker 2>health book of the year, and it's backed by a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of doctors who are like, yes, this, And when

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<v Speaker 2>I got a heads up on her book, The Connection

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<v Speaker 2>Cure the Prescriptive Power of Movement, Nature, Art, Service and Belonging,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, is this bullshit? And then I looked

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<v Speaker 2>into the bibliography and I wanted to chat with her

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<v Speaker 2>for selfish reasons because it ripped. I was like, this

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<v Speaker 2>is great, so I figured you might want to hear

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<v Speaker 2>it too, and hence an episode was very much in order.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually two episodes, so part one and two. Because this

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<v Speaker 2>interview itself is almost two hours long. It's worth two installments,

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<v Speaker 2>trust me. So social prescribing it has its own ology,

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<v Speaker 2>and sure I've found it used only one time in

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<v Speaker 2>this scientific literature, but the field is well established. But

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to discuss the etymology in a it. But first,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to patrons for supporting the show for as

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<v Speaker 2>little as one dollar a month and been in your questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks to everyone walking around in Ologies merch we have

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<v Speaker 2>summer stuff like hats and even bathing suits to wear

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<v Speaker 2>on your rear end. We also have Smologies episodes for free.

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<v Speaker 2>They're in their own feed wherever you get podcasts. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're looking for shorter filth free episodes suitable for classrooms,

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<v Speaker 2>and she rated those are linked to the shotouts also

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<v Speaker 2>for free. Thank you for supporting the show just by

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<v Speaker 2>leaving reviews. I read them all. I pick one to

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<v Speaker 2>spotlight as proof. And this week it's from listener and

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<v Speaker 2>reviewer Mandy Cpa, who wrote that I have quoted the

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<v Speaker 2>show so often that my family cheered when I opened

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<v Speaker 2>a sweatshirt at Christmas. And I'm assuming it was an

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<v Speaker 2>Ology sweatshirt, but if it wasn't, that's fine too. Also

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<v Speaker 2>bonus shout out to a reviewer as FETVJ who left

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<v Speaker 2>a really nice review years ago saying that Ologies has

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<v Speaker 2>gotten them and countless others to get that dream drive

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<v Speaker 2>going and get their next degree in ecology after they

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<v Speaker 2>thought they had lost it forever. And they updated their

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<v Speaker 2>review last week to add I have since achieved my

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<v Speaker 2>dream of being a park ranger, and that they use

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<v Speaker 2>factoids from Ologies in their educational programs. So keep it

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<v Speaker 2>the good work. I'm rooting for you. The world needs

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<v Speaker 2>you more than ever. Okay, So Saya Geneology, let's get

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<v Speaker 2>into it. It is most commonly known as social prescribing,

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<v Speaker 2>and it centers on a shift from like what's the

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<v Speaker 2>matter with you? To what matters to you in treating

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<v Speaker 2>and preventing illnesses? And I ask this guest an absolute

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<v Speaker 2>fire hose of not smart questions about why five main

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<v Speaker 2>factors improve our quality of life and longevity? Why do

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<v Speaker 2>we need to go outside more? How to figure out

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<v Speaker 2>what lights you up? How to schedule time for hobbies

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<v Speaker 2>if you have no time for hobbies, free stuff you

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<v Speaker 2>can get to make you happier. How has quarantine and

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<v Speaker 2>a pandemic affected how we interact? What if social interaction

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<v Speaker 2>gives you the willies? What if depression keeps you from

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<v Speaker 2>doing things that lift depression? How do you hang out

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<v Speaker 2>with people without being drunk? Is there any data to

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<v Speaker 2>support chilling out? The scientific deal with cold plunging? If

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<v Speaker 2>your health insurance covers having fun? How capitalism can literally

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<v Speaker 2>kill us? Where to volunteer to check off a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of life improving boxes. How much money you can save

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<v Speaker 2>if you join a knitting circle or a fishing club.

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<v Speaker 2>If protesting is a good hobby, if you build it,

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<v Speaker 2>will they come? And why she hates the title of

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<v Speaker 2>her own book with author journalist Deep Diver and absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>lovely and altruistic person and salu genologist Julia Jules has.

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<v Speaker 3>My name's Julia Hatts, and my pronouns are she here.

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<v Speaker 2>I have known of your book for a while and

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<v Speaker 2>when I first got it, I was like, whoa, this

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<v Speaker 2>is a thing.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to describe it to patrons so they

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<v Speaker 2>could submit their questions, and social prescribing was sort of

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<v Speaker 2>the closest thing that we could like nail it down to.

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<v Speaker 2>But what do you call this science?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, great questions. I mean the study of health. But

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<v Speaker 3>the word that people actually use is something called saluto genesis.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is the study of health. Like if you're

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<v Speaker 3>ever in Italy and they say salut, or Spain or

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<v Speaker 3>in France they say something that actually comes from this

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<v Speaker 3>Greek word, you know, salude, which refers to health. And

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<v Speaker 3>so every time you know you're clinking the wineglass, they're saying,

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<v Speaker 3>to our health, to our health, to our health. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's used in contrast to this thing called pathogenesis, right,

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<v Speaker 3>the study of disease, which science has done such a

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<v Speaker 3>great job at. I mean the fact that you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I could go to a doctor, they could swap my throat,

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<v Speaker 3>they could be like, yep, you have a strep throat pathogen.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna treat you with antibi boom. That's amazing, But

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<v Speaker 3>there's been far less attention to the opposite, to the

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<v Speaker 3>study of what makes us healthy.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh oh shit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. It's actually as kind of a cool origin story.

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<v Speaker 3>It was this doctor who, after the Holocaust, had been through,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, a concentration camp and was really curious about

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<v Speaker 3>why is it that some people live healthier lives, how

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<v Speaker 3>is it that some people go on to be healthy

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<v Speaker 3>after this horrific experience, And so he was the one

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<v Speaker 3>doctor anton Antonovsky who coined this idea, we should study

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<v Speaker 3>the factors that make us healthy. Health is not just

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<v Speaker 3>the absence of disease. It's the process through which individuals

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<v Speaker 3>understand that their life is comprehensible, manageable, and meaningful and

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<v Speaker 3>can function even in the face of these extreme environmental changes.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like that not just surviving but thriving kind

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<v Speaker 2>of study.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not just surviving but thriving exactly. And it totally

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<v Speaker 3>makes sense that we don't think about health this way.

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<v Speaker 3>Like from our earliest ages, we were going to the

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<v Speaker 3>doctor strep throat ear infection boom, we got the medicine.

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<v Speaker 2>But an infection or breaking your arm trying to do

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<v Speaker 2>a backflip on your aunt's trampline are pretty clear cut

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of diagnosis and treatment, but not so much

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<v Speaker 2>chronic pain, lingering, illness, and mental health just waking up

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<v Speaker 2>feeling like trash, going to bed feeling like trash, and

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<v Speaker 2>then filling the waking hours with breaking horrific news like

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<v Speaker 2>what could go wrong here?

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<v Speaker 3>For a long time, our healthcare systems haven't really been

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<v Speaker 3>set up to ask this question. But now, based on

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that people are getting sicker and sicker. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>modern medicine, therapy, it has its place, it's done wonders

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<v Speaker 3>for us, but clearly there is something about our environment

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<v Speaker 3>that's making us sick. So what of hell health care

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<v Speaker 3>actually got involved in helping us feel better, in prescribing

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<v Speaker 3>us resources and activities that help us feel healthy. And

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<v Speaker 3>this is where the practice of social prescribing comes in.

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<v Speaker 2>And does it help mental health? Does it help physical health?

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<v Speaker 2>Or is it kind of like when your mental health

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<v Speaker 2>is better, your physical health is better, and vice versa.

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<v Speaker 2>When it comes to tackling this, where does this tend

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<v Speaker 2>to concentrate? What does it affect?

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<v Speaker 3>A great question? And shout out to your great Dolerology

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<v Speaker 3>episode with doctor Rachel Softness, who talks about the way

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<v Speaker 3>that all of our pain is interconnected, so all of

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<v Speaker 3>our health is too, and we kind of like know

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<v Speaker 3>this intuitively. For example, today it's like a beautiful spring

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<v Speaker 3>day in New York. I was so excited about this interview,

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<v Speaker 3>so I went for a little run before it. I

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<v Speaker 3>got my heart rate up, I got those endorphins going.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that movement is associated with the release of

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<v Speaker 3>endorphins and serotonin, but also that exposure to sunlight is

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<v Speaker 3>going to calm down. So that's the beautiful thing about

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<v Speaker 3>social prescriptions. They've been used to treat to help treat

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<v Speaker 3>everything from anxiety and depression, things you know associated with

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<v Speaker 3>a deficit and serotonin, as well as chronic pain, type

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<v Speaker 3>two diabetes, even dementia in some cases. And I want

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<v Speaker 3>to be really clear and say this is not not

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<v Speaker 3>not a replacement for other kinds of medicine. This is

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<v Speaker 3>just about putting another option on the menu.

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<v Speaker 2>So an illness or depression isn't in your head, but

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<v Speaker 2>social prescribing or behavior modifications can help, sort of like therapy.

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<v Speaker 3>Can, absolutely absolutely and you know it comes down to

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<v Speaker 3>this really fundamental statistic that eighty percent of our health

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<v Speaker 3>outcomes as a population are driven by differences in our environment.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's nuts.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if you're working, you know, three jobs, if you

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<v Speaker 3>have to drive an hour to work, if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>live in a community with green space, if you're struggling

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<v Speaker 3>to you know, keep ends meet, if you're the sole caretaker,

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<v Speaker 3>all these environmental factors are going to impact your health.

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<v Speaker 3>Only twenty percent of our health differences come down to

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<v Speaker 3>what happens in clinical care.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty percent is clinical, eighty percent environmental. Oof y'all.

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<v Speaker 3>So you would think then that eighty percent of our

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<v Speaker 3>health care would be about treating us through those environments.

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<v Speaker 3>It would be about finding sources of childcare, it would

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<v Speaker 3>be about getting transportation to take us to green spaces.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's kind of like the practical, but philosophically what

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<v Speaker 3>social prescribing is. It comes down to shifting the question

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<v Speaker 3>that doctors often ask, you know, what's the matter with you?

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<v Speaker 3>Tell me about your symptoms to what matters to you?

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<v Speaker 3>Tell me about what brings you a unique sense of

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<v Speaker 3>joy and purpose, and then let me, as your doctor,

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<v Speaker 3>work with my team to actually prescribe you something that

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<v Speaker 3>help helps you get closer to what matters to you.

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<v Speaker 3>So for you, Ali, Ward, I have made you.

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<v Speaker 2>Julia held up a little medicine bottle like a tiny

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<v Speaker 2>capped diorama. That's amazing. This is that you're showing me

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<v Speaker 2>right now, an amber prescription bottle, white cap as you see,

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<v Speaker 2>and there are objects in it, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>know one of those objects.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, let me caveat this by saying, you know these.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a limited social prescription bottle for you, Ali.

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<v Speaker 3>You have so many things in listening to your show

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<v Speaker 3>learning about you that matter to you. But here a

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<v Speaker 3>couple I've picked out. So number one, of course, we

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<v Speaker 3>have a doggie, your beautiful doggie right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, gmy gremlin, who was dozing next to me and

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<v Speaker 2>whose collar you might hear jangling, but also was in

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<v Speaker 2>miniature in this little bottle.

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<v Speaker 3>Gommy, I know your dog matters to you so much. We,

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<v Speaker 3>of course, of course, have a little bug. It's actually

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<v Speaker 3>a little snail. They didn't have too much in the

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<v Speaker 3>bug collection. Over here, we have your partner. We have

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<v Speaker 3>a ukulele. Yes, it's all underneath a tree.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm ana cry. Oh my god, that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you remember that I played ukulelely?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh girl, I've been listening to you a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I haven't played in years either.

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<v Speaker 3>That is just it. That's exactly what you said right there.

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<v Speaker 3>That is what social prescribing aims to do. It aims

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<v Speaker 3>to help us tap into, like what are the things

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<v Speaker 3>we love to do when we were younger? What are

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<v Speaker 3>the things if we had two more hours in the week,

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<v Speaker 3>what would we spend it doing. We think of those

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<v Speaker 3>things as like nice to have one day if I

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<v Speaker 3>have time. Healthcare is saying no, this matters to you.

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<v Speaker 3>This should be part of your health care plan because

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<v Speaker 3>guess what if I prescribe you a spot in a

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<v Speaker 3>ukulele class that meets every Tuesdays at six o'clock with

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<v Speaker 3>nine other people, You're gonna make the time for it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I guarantee you and I have lots of stories

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<v Speaker 3>around this as proof and end scientific studies is proof

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<v Speaker 3>that your health will improve.

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<v Speaker 2>Shit, now I got to join a ukulele group. That

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<v Speaker 2>would be so cool. You know what. My sister works

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<v Speaker 2>with dementia patients and they have a ukulele group that

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<v Speaker 2>comes in place for them like once a month, and

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<v Speaker 2>like the days when the ukulele people come and play,

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<v Speaker 2>and now, fuck, I'm gonna have to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>I love it. It's a sign, it's a sign.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so cool. So for me, those are things that

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<v Speaker 2>I love. I love looking at bugs. I love running

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<v Speaker 2>around with Gammi Egg a gremlin. I was just running

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<v Speaker 2>around with her in the yard and it was so

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<v Speaker 2>cute and fun. I love hanging out with Jarrett all

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<v Speaker 2>those things, love trees. What are other things that people

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<v Speaker 2>might prescribe? Are there any doctors write that down on

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<v Speaker 2>a pad so that you take it seriously, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>so easy to be like, oh, sounds pretty nice, wish

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<v Speaker 2>a hoteme or whatever, even though we spend so many

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<v Speaker 2>hours scrolling non sense egg exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a big yes to that question. First, let

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<v Speaker 3>me talk about the different kinds of social prescriptions that

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<v Speaker 3>there are and why they are what they are. So

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<v Speaker 3>I've written this book, The Connection Cure, which is all

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<v Speaker 3>about how doctors in thirty countries around the world, including

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<v Speaker 3>the US more on that are actually prescribing this. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's not just doctors, it's therapists, it's nursers, it's community

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<v Speaker 3>health workers. It's social workers. And we can also talk

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<v Speaker 3>about why, like why now are they doing this? But

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<v Speaker 3>you'd asked about like the kinds of prescriptions, and from

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<v Speaker 3>my research, it pretty much comes down to five core ingredients.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's say it comes down to movement, nature, art service,

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<v Speaker 3>and belonging.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I got it, thanks once again, movement, nature,

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<v Speaker 2>art service, and belonging. By the end of the episode,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to be applying for a personalized license plate

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<v Speaker 2>that reads mnasb for And.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's a couple of reasons for that. And the

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<v Speaker 3>first one is like, in these thirty countries, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>these were the types of social prescriptions that people kind

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<v Speaker 3>of kept organically independently landing on. And we know this

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<v Speaker 3>from the data that part of this has to do

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<v Speaker 3>with the way we as humans are wired to be

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<v Speaker 3>in these kinds of environments, right, Like, think about us

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<v Speaker 3>tens of thousands of years ago. We were out there

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<v Speaker 3>trying to survive on the big bad Way. We had

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<v Speaker 3>to move our bodies, and so it was adaptive for

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<v Speaker 3>us to be able to move our bodies well. And

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<v Speaker 3>our bodies respond to that kind of movement, right, we

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<v Speaker 3>increase our levels of serotonin, we increase our endorphins. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not just you know Ellwood's.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, endorphins make you happy. Happy people just don't shoot

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<v Speaker 2>their husbands.

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<v Speaker 3>They just don't. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't

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<v Speaker 3>shoot their husbands. That whole line. Like, that's true, So

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<v Speaker 3>right movement, and that's not that controversial.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctors have been saying for fifty years, exercise more, exercise

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<v Speaker 3>more nature. Same is true there. I mean, there's some

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<v Speaker 3>really fascinating research from the nineteen eighties showing that nature

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<v Speaker 3>has these unique powers of restoring our attention. It's really

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<v Speaker 3>interesting the eighties too. I know you're an eighties baby,

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<v Speaker 3>like yep, kind of like the prime decade of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>everything's distracting, video games, commercials, beyond this and that. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>what these researchers found is that because of the way

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<v Speaker 3>that we evolve to be in nature, we evolved be

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<v Speaker 3>able to say, hey, you know, there's a bird up

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<v Speaker 3>there that looks like a tasty dinner. There's a fish.

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<v Speaker 3>There's something about the way we respond to it that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't suck up our attention. It actually restores our attention

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<v Speaker 3>such that when we leave a natural setting, we feel

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<v Speaker 3>more calm, we feel more restored, we feel like we're

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<v Speaker 3>actually better at focusing.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so funny because I love running and walking, and

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<v Speaker 2>if I do it on a treadmill inside of a gym,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels really different than me going to the local

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<v Speaker 2>lake and seeing people and seeing dogs, and I always

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<v Speaker 2>see that guy running at the same time, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>spiders in the trees. And I never put a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of weight into that. I just think it's a preference,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's actually probably chemically like helping my brain.

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<v Speaker 3>So much so, I'll tell you two really interesting studies

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<v Speaker 3>that show, yes, it's not just you, this is pretty universal.

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<v Speaker 3>So these researchers at Stanford University put students into conditions.

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<v Speaker 3>They had them walk for ninety minutes. And in one condition,

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<v Speaker 3>the walkers were, you know, just walking along like the

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<v Speaker 3>busy street next to a highway, not a lot of green,

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<v Speaker 3>not a lot of nature, not a lot of room

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<v Speaker 3>for the imagination. In the other condition, those students walked

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<v Speaker 3>in a park setting, you know, with all these lush

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<v Speaker 3>trees and animals. Just ninety minutes. Well, what did they

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<v Speaker 3>find at the end of these ninety minutes When they

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<v Speaker 3>compared these two groups. You know, not only did the

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<v Speaker 3>students in the nature group self report feeling more calm,

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<v Speaker 3>more relaxed, you know, better at focusing, but they also

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<v Speaker 3>did fMRIs and they found that students who walked in

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<v Speaker 3>the nature group had less activity in their subgenual prefrontal cortex,

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<v Speaker 3>which is associated with rumination, which is associated with anxiety

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<v Speaker 3>and depression. So, oh my god, you put that all together, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>and you find that, Wow, it's not just in our heads, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>there's some serious antidepressant, anxiety relieving effects of being in nature.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think it comes down to the way we

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<v Speaker 3>evolve to love and pay attention to nature.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was a twenty fifteen study titled Nature Experience

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<v Speaker 2>Reduces Rumination and subgenual Prefrontal Cortex Activation in the Journal

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<v Speaker 2>of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of

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<v Speaker 2>the United States of America, and it notes that more

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<v Speaker 2>than half of the world's population live in urban settings,

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<v Speaker 2>and while urbanization has many benefits, it's also associated with

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<v Speaker 2>increased levels of mental illness, including depression, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>it says city dwellers have a twenty percent higher risk

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<v Speaker 2>of anxiety disorders and a forty percent higher risk of

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<v Speaker 2>mood disorders as compared to people in rural areas. And

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<v Speaker 2>I thought maybe that was all just having cheaper rent.

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<v Speaker 2>But the paper details that those ninety minute walks and

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<v Speaker 2>the effects on rumination centers of the brain, and it

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<v Speaker 2>concludes that nature experience may improve mental well being and

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<v Speaker 2>accessible natural areas within cities may be a critical resource

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<v Speaker 2>for mental health in our rapidly urbanizing world. So city

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<v Speaker 2>dwellers give us parks or give us death, like for real,

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<v Speaker 2>But what else do all human animals need for enrichment?

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<v Speaker 2>So there's movement, there's nature, there's belonging, there's art.

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<v Speaker 3>There's belonging. There's art. Art's another one. I love. People think,

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<v Speaker 3>oh art, you know, that's nice, but like, really, doctors

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<v Speaker 3>are going to prescribe that. Researchers from Drexley University looked

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<v Speaker 3>at what happened after just forty five minutes of engaging

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<v Speaker 3>subjects in an artistic activity and found that they had

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<v Speaker 3>significantly reduced their levels of cortisol of stress.

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<v Speaker 2>No way, so I perused this twenty sixteen study Reduction

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<v Speaker 2>of Cortisol levels and participants responses following art making in

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<v Speaker 2>the Journal of the American Art Therapy Association, and I

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<v Speaker 2>found delightfully that scientists did spit tests for cortisol levels

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<v Speaker 2>on thirty nine volunteers between the ages of eighteen to

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<v Speaker 2>fifty nine before and after a crafting session, and then

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<v Speaker 2>they asked them to describe their experience, and the researchers

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<v Speaker 2>gave them collage materials, modeling clay, and markers and just

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<v Speaker 2>told them scientifically, go to town, do whatever you want. And

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<v Speaker 2>the data show that making art stuff resulted in lower

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<v Speaker 2>cortisol levels, and the participants said it was relaxing, enjoyable,

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<v Speaker 2>helpful for learning about new aspects of self, freeing from constraints,

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<v Speaker 2>and that the process of initial struggle to later resolution

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<v Speaker 2>and losing themselves in that flow was all pretty nice

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<v Speaker 2>and chill. And no, to be an artist you do

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<v Speaker 2>not need teen angst or decades of experience, or even

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<v Speaker 2>a septum piercing as there were no significant differences in

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<v Speaker 2>outcomes based on prior experience or art supplied choice, or gender.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is not that novel. I mean, art therapy

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<v Speaker 3>has been around as a discipline. There's something about the

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<v Speaker 3>way engaging with art sort of helps us shift our

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<v Speaker 3>perspective and realize like, hey, we're not alone. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that also comes down to the way I think we

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<v Speaker 3>as humans trying to make it in the big bad wild.

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<v Speaker 3>We told stories with each other, we painted on caves,

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<v Speaker 3>we made jewelry, We tried to seek out and talk

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<v Speaker 3>about the beauty of the world. So there's something very

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<v Speaker 3>primal about that too.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's get depressed. How are we living that is

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<v Speaker 2>not hitting these bases? Because I don't know a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people who are like thriving at the moment tbh,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I know people who are succeeding, But on a

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<v Speaker 2>day to day how is your mental health doing? Is

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<v Speaker 2>a struggle?

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<v Speaker 1>All right?

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<v Speaker 2>And you know we live in the United States, which

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<v Speaker 2>is like going through some stuff, But like, how is

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five living maybe not engineered to hit these bases?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely well, you're asking the great question because that's exactly

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<v Speaker 3>how I felt when I wrote this book, sort of

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<v Speaker 3>in the throes of the pandemic, especially, And I think

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<v Speaker 3>it was no coincidence that rates of stress, rates of loneliness,

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<v Speaker 3>rates of anxiety, depression, all these things going up, up, up,

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<v Speaker 3>up up up.

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<v Speaker 2>Could see the recent long COVID episode too.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, there has to be a reason for that,

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<v Speaker 3>and what is that reason? And I think a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of it comes down to the way our environment is

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00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.039
<v Speaker 3>making us sick. Now we go back to like our

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<v Speaker 3>evolutionary needs for survival, movement, nature, art, service, and belonging.

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<v Speaker 3>They weren't just a nice to have if I have time.

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<v Speaker 3>You needed to do this to survive, and importantly, you

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't do it alone. Like, yeah, you try to survive

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<v Speaker 3>out there in the big bad wild on your own.

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<v Speaker 3>Good luck. But now, of course, as I talk to

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<v Speaker 3>you from my Brooklyn apartment, I can have all of

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<v Speaker 3>my basic needs met without leaving. I need food, I

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00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.480
<v Speaker 3>can order it. I want entertainment, I can stream it.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to feel a sense of belonging. Maybe I'll

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00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.759
<v Speaker 3>turn on a TV show where you know, I'm feeling

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<v Speaker 3>a connection to the characters. So I think it's become

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<v Speaker 3>easier and easier for us to choose an environment that

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<v Speaker 3>disconnects us from these things. And yet when I just

419
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.519
<v Speaker 3>replay back twenty minutes ago when I showed you this

420
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.920
<v Speaker 3>and I saw the way that your face lit up,

421
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.160
<v Speaker 3>when you've remembered how much you love ukulele, or when

422
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.079
<v Speaker 3>you described to me the difference between running outside and

423
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:59.799
<v Speaker 3>running you know, on a treadmill. Intuitively, you know that

424
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.079
<v Speaker 3>these things are good for us. And it's not just intuitive, right,

425
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.839
<v Speaker 3>there's a ton a ton a ton of data showing

426
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.319
<v Speaker 3>that these five things in particular have profound effects for

427
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.559
<v Speaker 3>our mood, our energy, our attention levels, our longevity. But

428
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:17.880
<v Speaker 3>the question is okay, great, so now what I mean

429
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.119
<v Speaker 3>what do we do about it? And for a while, right,

430
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:22.960
<v Speaker 3>it was sort of this thing of the doctor with

431
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:27.640
<v Speaker 3>the wagging finger saying, Ali, you should relax, you should

432
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.279
<v Speaker 3>take some time for yourself, you should go outside more,

433
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.200
<v Speaker 3>you shouldn't blah blah blah whatever it is.

434
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I heard that. It would infuriate me, like literally

435
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:39.519
<v Speaker 2>had doctors. I was going through a very unfailure, had

436
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.119
<v Speaker 2>doctors telling me, can you just like quit your job?

437
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.319
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, who are you going to pay

438
00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:47.440
<v Speaker 2>my rent? Like what are you taught? No? And you know,

439
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.200
<v Speaker 2>my friends being like, you need to relax, you need

440
00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 2>to take time off. And it's really hard when you're

441
00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:55.559
<v Speaker 2>like if I take time off or whatever, what if

442
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I drop the ball on all my stuff?

443
00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Right?

444
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 2>The anxiety of losing the momentum you have with work

445
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.720
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, it keeps you from relaxing, Right, how do

446
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.519
<v Speaker 2>people accept that as a prescription?

447
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.480
<v Speaker 3>Right, we're all on this treadmill. I totally get it.

448
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 3>So let me tell you. Let me tell you a

449
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.720
<v Speaker 3>story that shows, you know, what we kind of expect

450
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:19.920
<v Speaker 3>to happen in healthcare and what it could become and

451
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.799
<v Speaker 3>what is starting to happen. So one of the first

452
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.279
<v Speaker 3>stories in the book is about this guy named Frank.

453
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.160
<v Speaker 3>And you know, Frank is this lovely older man. He

454
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.279
<v Speaker 3>was a truck driver. And you can imagine the life

455
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.880
<v Speaker 3>of a truck driver. You know, you're sitting in your car,

456
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.119
<v Speaker 3>so you're sitting most of the day. You're probably not

457
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.680
<v Speaker 3>pulling over the side of the road and picking fresh

458
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.680
<v Speaker 3>tomatoes like, you're probably eating fast food and you're alone. Right.

459
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.279
<v Speaker 3>So Frank was in this profession, and you know, he

460
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.319
<v Speaker 3>would go to the doctor and he would have a

461
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.640
<v Speaker 3>terrible time there because what did the doctors do. They

462
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.440
<v Speaker 3>would always focus on what was the matter with him.

463
00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.480
<v Speaker 3>They would sort of shame him and say, you know, Frank,

464
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.440
<v Speaker 3>you're overweight, you have type two diabetes. I'm going to

465
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.519
<v Speaker 3>prescribe you insulin. You're going to be on this insulin

466
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:09.440
<v Speaker 3>for the rest of your life. And so because of

467
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.440
<v Speaker 3>that negative experience, because going to the doctor, Frank really

468
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:16.680
<v Speaker 3>felt terrible about himself and felt exactly how you feel, like, Okay, yeah,

469
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.799
<v Speaker 3>well I know that my job is the problem, but yeah,

470
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to like go to an Equinox class

471
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 3>after my long day of truck driving. What can you

472
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 3>do for me? They didn't have a lot of answers

473
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 3>until he met somebody who adopts social prescribing and practices

474
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:38.319
<v Speaker 3>health a little bit differently and really is big into saludogenesis, right,

475
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:43.480
<v Speaker 3>the study of health, and that doctor, doctor Ali Hart, said,

476
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:47.799
<v Speaker 3>you know, Frank, tell me about something you loved to

477
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 3>do when you were a kid. And it just so

478
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.119
<v Speaker 3>happened that Frank had moved to this new community, he

479
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:53.960
<v Speaker 3>didn't really know anybody, he didn't really know how to

480
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.240
<v Speaker 3>get involved, and so Frank starts to talking and eventually

481
00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:00.759
<v Speaker 3>they both realized that they both love right their bike.

482
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's so cute.

483
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 3>Right, And it wasn't this conversation of Frank, you need

484
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:07.480
<v Speaker 3>to exercise more, tell me what you love to do

485
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:10.319
<v Speaker 3>to exercise. It was all about what do you love

486
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:11.920
<v Speaker 3>to do as when you were a kid, and Frank

487
00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:14.039
<v Speaker 3>could have said art. Frank could have said anything, but

488
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 3>he said riding his bike. So then the doctor didn't

489
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.440
<v Speaker 3>say okay, great, good luck, go ride your bike. He said,

490
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.279
<v Speaker 3>here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to prescribe

491
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 3>you a bike, and I'm going to prescribe you a

492
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.200
<v Speaker 3>spot in this cycling course that meets Tuesday evenings after

493
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.759
<v Speaker 3>your shift, and if you don't want to go alone,

494
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:33.319
<v Speaker 3>I'll go with you.

495
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow, dude, that's a good doctor.

496
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.599
<v Speaker 3>That is a good doctor. And let me tell you

497
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.279
<v Speaker 3>what happens to Frank. So he's prescribed a spot in

498
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 3>this course, and he's nervous. He doesn't know anybody. He's

499
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.880
<v Speaker 3>an older adult, he hasn't been bike riding in years.

500
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:49.519
<v Speaker 3>That's who the course is designed for. Eventually he starts going.

501
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.880
<v Speaker 3>It becomes a weekly routine. He starts befriending the fellow cyclist.

502
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.960
<v Speaker 3>They have their little you know, WhatsApp group on the side.

503
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.640
<v Speaker 3>They call themselves the Chain Gang. Eventually, even after this

504
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.359
<v Speaker 3>Tuesday course ended, the ten of them said, well, we

505
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 3>really love doing this, let's keep meeting. Even outside of

506
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:12.960
<v Speaker 3>this prescription. Frank eventually loses forty pounds. He's able to

507
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.880
<v Speaker 3>come off his insulin, which is what doctors originally told

508
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:21.160
<v Speaker 3>him was impossible. And more importantly, he doesn't see himself

509
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 3>as this sick person who hates doctors. He sees himself

510
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:27.720
<v Speaker 3>as this healthy person who's able to create his own health.

511
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:32.119
<v Speaker 3>And sure the social prescription helped him get there, but

512
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 3>ultimately these are all things that now that the bridge

513
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 3>has been made, he can do on his ol because

514
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.039
<v Speaker 3>you really have to experience the health benefits first to

515
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:43.799
<v Speaker 3>be able to say, Okay, this is worth my time.

516
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 3>This is an investment in my time. When I go

517
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.599
<v Speaker 3>for that two hour bike ride, I'm going to come

518
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.440
<v Speaker 3>back feeling more energized. I feel like I'm saving time

519
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.559
<v Speaker 3>down the line. So that is one example of what

520
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:56.359
<v Speaker 3>this could look like.

521
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>And if you're like I wish I knew the name

522
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.279
<v Speaker 2>of that free program that gives bikes to older adults

523
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and provides a six week course to intro them into

524
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:09.200
<v Speaker 2>biking and road safety, it's called pedal ready in the UK.

525
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Now in the US you can check with local YMCA programs.

526
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.559
<v Speaker 2>You can find resources through AARP or there's something called

527
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.720
<v Speaker 2>silver sneakers which can be covered by Medicare Part B

528
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.839
<v Speaker 2>and some supplemental health plans, and Silver Sneakers has a

529
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:29.480
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different fitness programs, from pickleball to water workouts,

530
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and their site says that from national gyms to local

531
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:37.200
<v Speaker 2>community centers, there are more participating fitness locations available in

532
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.160
<v Speaker 2>the US to Silver Sneakers members than there are Starbucks,

533
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.880
<v Speaker 2>which is frankly dizzying and very encouraging, but what if

534
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 2>just getting there is brutal. You can also look to

535
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.480
<v Speaker 2>the National Aging and Disability Transportation Center to help out

536
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 2>older adults, people disabilities, and caregivers. And I also just

537
00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>found out that in forty one countries there's a p

538
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.200
<v Speaker 2>pro called Cycling Without Age, where volunteers on a bike

539
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.079
<v Speaker 2>can pick up older adults and give them rides in

540
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.079
<v Speaker 2>a try shaw, which is like a petticab for those

541
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>who need a ride and some nature and fresh air

542
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.720
<v Speaker 2>and some good convo. And the passengers also seem to

543
00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 2>get that. And you can start a Cycling Without Age

544
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>chapter in your area, or you can hit the site

545
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.720
<v Speaker 2>that will link on our website to see if there's

546
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a chapter nearby. I looked just out of curiosity. I

547
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>live in LA and there's one in Hollywood via the

548
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.319
<v Speaker 2>La Bicycle Coalition, and after a quick break, we're going

549
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:34.720
<v Speaker 2>to address whether you're the one having a ride or

550
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>giving it, what if mobility is an issue. We'll also

551
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.960
<v Speaker 2>chat about how to pick a hobby, how the epidemic

552
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.519
<v Speaker 2>of loneliness affects emergency medicine, whether cold plunges are bullshit,

553
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:49.200
<v Speaker 2>and more. Right after a quick hello from sponsors who

554
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:51.480
<v Speaker 2>make it possible to donate to a cause of theologists

555
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:54.799
<v Speaker 2>choosing this week, Julia pointed us toward grow NYC, and

556
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 2>she's going to tell us more about them later in

557
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.039
<v Speaker 2>the show, So thank you sponsors.

558
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.839
<v Speaker 1>Loves, quality and value you can trust. At MNS you

559
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560
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561
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562
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563
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:26.079
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564
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:28.279
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565
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, where were we Yes, whether you're the one having

566
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 2>a ride or you're given one. What if mobility is

567
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:38.240
<v Speaker 2>an issue? Let's say that you have a disability where

568
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 2>you can't hop on a bike. Do those types of

569
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.039
<v Speaker 2>like art combined with a club where you're going to

570
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.240
<v Speaker 2>see people and do the art, or you're doing something

571
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.440
<v Speaker 2>where it's art and its service. Does it typically help

572
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 2>if it's more than one thing, more than one of

573
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>those five things at once, totally.

574
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 3>And I mean even with the biking, it was you know,

575
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:03.240
<v Speaker 3>movement was nature and it was belonging right. And it's

576
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.680
<v Speaker 3>also service because now Frank goes and he talks to

577
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.240
<v Speaker 3>people about his experience, he helps other people in issues.

578
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 3>I think more often than not it's some combination of it,

579
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.519
<v Speaker 3>and I think more important than the activity itself is

580
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.200
<v Speaker 3>about it mattering to the person. Oh, you know, like

581
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:23.599
<v Speaker 3>of course, physical movement is really good for things like

582
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, being overweight, type two diabetes, that sort of thing. Art,

583
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 3>the study show is really good for stress and anxiety.

584
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.759
<v Speaker 3>Service is really good for people older in their life.

585
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:38.359
<v Speaker 3>It's also good for people with chronic pain. But you know,

586
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 3>at the end of the day, it's gonna be about

587
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:44.160
<v Speaker 3>what matters to the person and also what's available in

588
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 3>the community. And to your point, if somebody can't physically

589
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.559
<v Speaker 3>leave their house, I talk about a couple of examples

590
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.119
<v Speaker 3>where there are virtual social prescriptions available as well.

591
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.119
<v Speaker 2>And those also are helpful despite the fact that you're

592
00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 2>on a screen, like if you have limited options.

593
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, yeah. I mean one story is about this ninety

594
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:06.759
<v Speaker 3>two year old named Glenn, who I mean, he's ninety two,

595
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Speaker 3>so he literally had no social connections left. I mean,

596
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 3>I can't even imagine the experience of being that age

597
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.319
<v Speaker 3>and having nobody to talk to, not leaving your house

598
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:18.960
<v Speaker 3>in years because you can't drive anymore. Well, he gets

599
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.680
<v Speaker 3>prescribed a volunteer phone call buddy, And this volunteer phone

600
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:27.440
<v Speaker 3>call buddy is not just instructed to, you know, say hey,

601
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:31.119
<v Speaker 3>how are you Glenn, but is instructed really in the

602
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 3>mechanics of belonging, of really making Glenn feel known, which

603
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.240
<v Speaker 3>evolution tells us that part of the reason why we

604
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 3>seek belonging and seek close relationships is because of the

605
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.519
<v Speaker 3>way that we want to be seen and known, and

606
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:49.319
<v Speaker 3>this helps us with our evolutionary advantages, that sort of thing.

607
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.759
<v Speaker 3>So that's what Glenn is prescribed, and sure enough, after

608
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.240
<v Speaker 3>these phone calls they develop a genuine friendship. Ryan helps

609
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.680
<v Speaker 3>the you know, his phone call buddy helps Glenn go

610
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:05.319
<v Speaker 3>to the doctor's office he grocery shops for him. He's

611
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.960
<v Speaker 3>able to help him get a handle on his other

612
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 3>health issues that he really didn't have the motivation to

613
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.800
<v Speaker 3>do before. So that's just one example of what this

614
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.159
<v Speaker 3>could look like. But I absolutely think, yeah, it doesn't

615
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:20.239
<v Speaker 3>make sense to prescribe somebody a cycling class who has

616
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 3>their mobility compromised or doesn't have green space near them.

617
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 3>It needs to be really about meeting people where they're at.

618
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the other thing about feeling known is

619
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:33.119
<v Speaker 2>you can't feel truly known if you can't be authentic

620
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.320
<v Speaker 2>and connecting the things that you actually love brings out

621
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.639
<v Speaker 2>an authenticity that you can't really suppress. Like for me,

622
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.800
<v Speaker 2>I might not have this authenticity if I were to

623
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.159
<v Speaker 2>go volunteer doing something that I hated doing, or if

624
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I did a hobby that I wasn't interested in. I

625
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>don't think that my authentic self would show up, and

626
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.360
<v Speaker 2>so that being known as who I am wouldn't arise.

627
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.039
<v Speaker 2>But for me, you know, I definitely have battled anxiety

628
00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and depression. For you, when you were motivated to write

629
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 2>this book, especially in the throes of quarantine and things

630
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:04.679
<v Speaker 2>like that, did you find yourself coming from a place

631
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.599
<v Speaker 2>of wanting to help others or wanting to help yourself,

632
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.480
<v Speaker 2>or what personally drove you down this road.

633
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:12.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, and first of all, you know, it's

634
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.760
<v Speaker 3>incredible that you could share that and you can be

635
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.599
<v Speaker 3>the person that you are. I think our culture has,

636
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.199
<v Speaker 3>you know, such a negative and limited depiction of what

637
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:25.760
<v Speaker 3>that is. And that's kind of why I wrote this book,

638
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.559
<v Speaker 3>because it's like all of us, by virtue of living

639
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.440
<v Speaker 3>in this world, we were really not designed to thrive in.

640
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.400
<v Speaker 3>You may struggle with some of those symptoms at time

641
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 3>to time, and it's not a fault of the person.

642
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.400
<v Speaker 3>It's a fault of a world that doesn't set us

643
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 3>up for what we need. So you know, for me,

644
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.400
<v Speaker 3>I yes, I really identified with that, and I think

645
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:48.679
<v Speaker 3>it's one of those things where I didn't really realize

646
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.639
<v Speaker 3>why I was writing the book until i'd written it.

647
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:53.679
<v Speaker 3>It was kind of like, this is interesting. I know

648
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:55.840
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people who really aren't thriving right now,

649
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:04.880
<v Speaker 3>but certainly not me. Until you know, I, oh my gosh,

650
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 3>I'd been so blind to all of the ways I

651
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 3>was dealing with anxiety, depression, attention issues. I had, like

652
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:18.599
<v Speaker 3>these chronic migraines, that I like swore something was wrong

653
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.519
<v Speaker 3>with me. I clearly had a tumor, you know, and

654
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:24.039
<v Speaker 3>was getting trying to get all these answers until I

655
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.559
<v Speaker 3>really got inspiration from the characters I reported on and thought, no, actually,

656
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:32.440
<v Speaker 3>it's funny how my migraines tend to be worse when

657
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:36.239
<v Speaker 3>I have no sleep and I have no control over

658
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.079
<v Speaker 3>my time or my inbox and all the things that

659
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:41.719
<v Speaker 3>you know lots of people on your pod have shared before.

660
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.880
<v Speaker 2>So remember Julia is a professional journalist, and it's prone

661
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 2>to falling down research holes for stories. So digging into

662
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.800
<v Speaker 2>the research it's not something new to her. And after

663
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.159
<v Speaker 2>compiling all these interviews with patients and doctors and looking

664
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 2>at data, she decided to structure the book that she

665
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.000
<v Speaker 2>wrote in three parts. They're social Prescribing for better health,

666
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.400
<v Speaker 2>social prescribing for better health care, and social prescribing for

667
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.480
<v Speaker 2>you and me, because journalists heal thyself.

668
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.519
<v Speaker 3>I think it was a combo of that, and that's

669
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.119
<v Speaker 3>what encouraged me to really write this part three where

670
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.559
<v Speaker 3>I got real deep, like, hey, I'm not doing well

671
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:20.360
<v Speaker 3>in all these ways, and based on the science, and

672
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.559
<v Speaker 3>based on what matters to me, and based on what's

673
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.480
<v Speaker 3>available in my New York community. I'm going to prescribe

674
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.039
<v Speaker 3>myself these things when I'm feeling this way, and I'm

675
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.840
<v Speaker 3>going to report back. And even though the book is

676
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.280
<v Speaker 3>called The Connection Cure, I hate that title. I really

677
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:34.920
<v Speaker 3>you hate the title?

678
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Did you title it?

679
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:38.960
<v Speaker 3>Nope? Between you and me and all your listeners?

680
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Really no, But I get it.

681
00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 3>It's catchy. They both start with see. But you know,

682
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.880
<v Speaker 3>I think I opposed to it because it sort of

683
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.239
<v Speaker 3>reinforces this idea that we can be cured, or that

684
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:54.159
<v Speaker 3>we are sick as individuals, when really it's our environment

685
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:54.760
<v Speaker 3>that's sick.

686
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Right.

687
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.360
<v Speaker 3>Like the analogy I use is like, think about you

688
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.119
<v Speaker 3>have a lot of science see listeners. So here's a

689
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.280
<v Speaker 3>little thought experiment. We have ten people in a room

690
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:09.679
<v Speaker 3>and seven of them are sweating, uh huh. In our

691
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:12.719
<v Speaker 3>current healthcare system or healthcare as it had been, we

692
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 3>would take those seven people. We would diagnose like, okay,

693
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.679
<v Speaker 3>precisely when does the sweating start? And you know, can

694
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.000
<v Speaker 3>I prescribe you something that blocks the sweat? Blah blah

695
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.519
<v Speaker 3>blah blah. We'd go through sort of the clinical work

696
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 3>up before asking if most people are sweating, maybe the

697
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 3>room is too.

698
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Can we put the air conditioning on the fact that

699
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see that coming?

700
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Is like, but we all don't. We all don't because

701
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.800
<v Speaker 3>we're so steeped into this sort of culture that starts

702
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:47.400
<v Speaker 3>more and very young. When we don't feel well, we

703
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.679
<v Speaker 3>assume that something is wrong in our bodies and that

704
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.960
<v Speaker 3>there is something there to treat that wrong, specific thing

705
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:56.320
<v Speaker 3>in your body. This goes back to what doctor's Off

706
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:58.159
<v Speaker 3>said and that there is truth to that.

707
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:02.119
<v Speaker 2>So doctor Rachel's often side note or doctors Off was

708
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:04.960
<v Speaker 2>our guest on the Dolerology episode about pain and it's

709
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:10.320
<v Speaker 2>biopsychosocial origins and the behavioral therapies based in scientific research

710
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:12.280
<v Speaker 2>on chronic pain. And we'll link that one in the

711
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.679
<v Speaker 2>show notes. So it's not a pain to find. But yeah,

712
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.960
<v Speaker 2>the world is a little fucky and so are our bodies.

713
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.079
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's not made up, it's not fake. These

714
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 3>afflictions are very real. But by continuing to just treat

715
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.840
<v Speaker 3>things in a biomedical way and not treating with the

716
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 3>environment as well, you know, we're really missing out.

717
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, what happens if you're so deep in the shit

718
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>that you can't make yourself do this? Like that's one

719
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.760
<v Speaker 2>thing with depression is depression is like why brush your teeth?

720
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:47.440
<v Speaker 2>So then it's hard to just be like I'm going

721
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.480
<v Speaker 2>to join a knitting circle. What are the like steps

722
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:51.320
<v Speaker 2>out of the swamp?

723
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.199
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely and that's you're absolutely right. There's something called the

724
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.960
<v Speaker 3>depression catch twenty two really really frustrating that. You know,

725
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:04.800
<v Speaker 3>the symptoms of depression are fatigue, low energy, low mood.

726
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 3>You know, you want to isolate and lay in bed

727
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.760
<v Speaker 3>all day, when the thing that is best for treating

728
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:15.800
<v Speaker 3>those symptoms is getting outside, moving, socializing. But of course

729
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:17.599
<v Speaker 3>somebody who's in the thick of it, that's going to

730
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.800
<v Speaker 3>sound like the worst thing possible. And this was true

731
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.639
<v Speaker 3>for somebody I report on in the book. Her name's Amanda.

732
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:27.960
<v Speaker 3>So this happened during quarantine. And during quarantine, you know,

733
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.599
<v Speaker 3>this was in itself a very socially disconnecting time. Now

734
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 3>you can imagine how somebody who during quarantine, they're already

735
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.719
<v Speaker 3>very socially connected, what would their bodies do if during

736
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:41.840
<v Speaker 3>that time this was true for Amanda, she finds out

737
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:46.159
<v Speaker 3>her husband is having an affair, her mom passes away,

738
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:50.280
<v Speaker 3>she loses her job, and then because of all this

739
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 3>she has to move to a place where she knows nobody.

740
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:58.559
<v Speaker 3>And this is during quarantine itself, so God super super disconnected,

741
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:04.599
<v Speaker 3>no wonder that Amanda is severely severely depressed. So she

742
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.199
<v Speaker 3>gets to prescribes an SSRI and it really really helps her.

743
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:12.079
<v Speaker 3>It really really helps her with those extreme, deep dark thoughts.

744
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:16.119
<v Speaker 3>And it was true that after Amanda began her antidepressant,

745
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.039
<v Speaker 3>she said, this is great. I'm better than I was,

746
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.960
<v Speaker 3>but I'm still not thriving. What can I do to thrive?

747
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.239
<v Speaker 3>But it came again with this catch twenty two thing

748
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 3>of she didn't really want to leave her house. She

749
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't know anybody, so where would she begin? That step?

750
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.480
<v Speaker 3>Felt really really hard.

751
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

752
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 3>So fortunately the place where Amanda moved was a place

753
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 3>that had just adopted social prescribing.

754
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Whoa where was this?

755
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:46.960
<v Speaker 3>So this this beautiful seaside community in England, and she

756
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:50.599
<v Speaker 3>ultimately starts to get a little bit curious, what would

757
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 3>it be like if I went swimming? And again the

758
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:56.320
<v Speaker 3>thought of her taking herself out there to practice swimming

759
00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 3>felt really really hard. But she happened to have this

760
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.440
<v Speaker 3>mental health in her who said there are sea swimming

761
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:06.440
<v Speaker 3>lessons available on prescription. And it's actually because of all

762
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 3>this data showing that cold water exposure, swimming, moving your body,

763
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:12.880
<v Speaker 3>belonging is really really good for certain symptoms of depression.

764
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 3>It's going to be covered for you. Can I prescribe

765
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:18.639
<v Speaker 3>you a spot nice again, kind of like with Frank

766
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:21.519
<v Speaker 3>with the cycling. It makes it so much easier when

767
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:23.800
<v Speaker 3>a it's something you're already a little bit interested in,

768
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:27.800
<v Speaker 3>when you have all the logistics covered, when you know

769
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.039
<v Speaker 3>that there are other people in your boat that are

770
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 3>going to be there, and when there is a specific

771
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:37.360
<v Speaker 3>time and place to do it. So Amanda gets prescribed

772
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.440
<v Speaker 3>this sea swimming lesson which I go in the water

773
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 3>with her when I go out to meet her. And

774
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.000
<v Speaker 3>let me tell you, it is free zing. I was

775
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.719
<v Speaker 3>there in September. These women do this three hundred and

776
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:51.400
<v Speaker 3>sixty five days a year cold open see no wetsuit

777
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:52.400
<v Speaker 3>total ballers.

778
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:53.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh god.

779
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 3>And you know, like some of this is true on

780
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.599
<v Speaker 3>a level of physiologically, we know for the same reason

781
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.760
<v Speaker 3>we love to cold showers, there's something about that that

782
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.639
<v Speaker 3>makes us feel really awake and alert and energized and

783
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.639
<v Speaker 3>all of these wonderful sort of antidepressant effects. But also,

784
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.400
<v Speaker 3>of course there's the fact that Amanda is trying a

785
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 3>new skill, she's moving her body, she's doing it with

786
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:21.440
<v Speaker 3>her fellow swimmers. She's exposed to this beautiful seaside environment

787
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 3>she's never been before. And then kind of like Frank,

788
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:28.159
<v Speaker 3>of course, they form a little texting group. They decide

789
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:30.679
<v Speaker 3>we want to you know, actually be friends. Let's have

790
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:33.280
<v Speaker 3>tea on the weekend, let's make jam together, like do

791
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:34.360
<v Speaker 3>all this English shit.

792
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:34.880
<v Speaker 2>And.

793
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:40.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, come to not only make sea swimming a

794
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.719
<v Speaker 3>part of like their friendship routine, but also all these

795
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.039
<v Speaker 3>other things as well. So I know that it's going

796
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.800
<v Speaker 3>to look different for everybody. I'm not saying that the

797
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.639
<v Speaker 3>solution is sea swimming, but maybe for some people at

798
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.280
<v Speaker 3>some point there's that thing that they're a little bit

799
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:59.760
<v Speaker 3>curious about, and there's a healthcare provider who can help

800
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:01.519
<v Speaker 3>bring you closer to that thing.

801
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I know what you're thinking, because I'm thinking it too.

802
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.400
<v Speaker 2>So I looked into cold plunges, partly just to be petty,

803
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.360
<v Speaker 2>and I did find a twenty twenty two paper titled

804
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:14.360
<v Speaker 2>health effects a voluntary exposure to cold water a continuing

805
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.280
<v Speaker 2>subject of debate, and it was published in the International

806
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Journal of Circumpolar Health, which noted that while some studies

807
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.960
<v Speaker 2>have been small, cold water immersion quote seems to reduce

808
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and or transform body adipose tissue as well as reduce

809
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.960
<v Speaker 2>insulin resistance and improve insulin sensitivity, which may have a

810
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:37.719
<v Speaker 2>protective effect against cardiovascular and metabolic disease and could have

811
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.079
<v Speaker 2>preventative health effects. However, without further conclusive studies, it says

812
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:44.599
<v Speaker 2>the topic will continue to be a subject of debate,

813
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:49.119
<v Speaker 2>so a further study twenty twenty three is wildly descriptive

814
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and very generously hyphenated short term head out whole body

815
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:59.679
<v Speaker 2>cold water immersion facilitates positive effect and increases interaction between

816
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.239
<v Speaker 2>large scale brain networks. In the journal Biology, dunked a

817
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:07.679
<v Speaker 2>bunch of people in twenty degree water Americans. That's celsius,

818
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 2>so it was really sixty eight fahrenheit and the researchers

819
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:15.840
<v Speaker 2>measured brain connectivity and self reported emotional states before and

820
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.559
<v Speaker 2>after this cold water immersion, and their findings showed that

821
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:26.239
<v Speaker 2>participants felt more active, alert, attentive, proud, inspired, and less

822
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 2>distressed and nervous after having a cold water bath, and

823
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:34.119
<v Speaker 2>the changes in positive emotions were associated with the coupling

824
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:40.679
<v Speaker 2>between brain areas that involved attention control, emotion and self regulation,

825
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:44.199
<v Speaker 2>and the study continues that the results indicate that short

826
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:49.400
<v Speaker 2>term whole body cold water immersion may have integrative effects

827
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>on brain functioning, leading to that reported improvement and mood.

828
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:57.440
<v Speaker 2>But heads up, heads out whole body cold water experimenters.

829
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:01.639
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, the American Heart Association cautioned via

830
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:05.960
<v Speaker 2>an incredibly sassy article titled You're not a Polar Bear,

831
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the plunge into cold water comes with risks that plunging

832
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 2>the body into cold water can trigger a sudden increase

833
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:14.760
<v Speaker 2>in heart rate and blood pressure, known as the cold

834
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:19.280
<v Speaker 2>shock response, So some cardiologists caution against it for anyone

835
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:23.000
<v Speaker 2>with heart issues, So talk to your doc if that's you,

836
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:26.039
<v Speaker 2>and in general, keep your head out of the water

837
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>to avoid gasping from it and then flooding your lungs

838
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:33.880
<v Speaker 2>and or acclimate slowly to colder water. But yeah, sixty

839
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:36.400
<v Speaker 2>eight degrees is not that bad because, let me tell you,

840
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.519
<v Speaker 2>it can feel pretty invigorating and the cold plunge is

841
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.000
<v Speaker 2>pretty quick, just a few minutes. I've been a science

842
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>correspondent for CBS's Innovation Nation for like a decade, and

843
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.760
<v Speaker 2>we did a segment on this. Okay, so if we're

844
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.800
<v Speaker 2>going I'm preparing myself mentally and also putting my hair back.

845
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.719
<v Speaker 2>So does she get herself into these situations for science?

846
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:00.719
<v Speaker 1>You got this?

847
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 2>True?

848
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:07.679
<v Speaker 1>That's cool.

849
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:13.039
<v Speaker 2>It feels like I have a little butterflies clig everywhere

850
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:13.719
<v Speaker 2>inside my bike.

851
00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:15.840
<v Speaker 3>You look cold, cold, little butterflies.

852
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>And I will say for the rest of the day,

853
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:20.760
<v Speaker 2>it feels like you know when you're caught in a

854
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:23.199
<v Speaker 2>rainstorm outside and then you go inside and you change

855
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:26.119
<v Speaker 2>into dry clothes and you're like, oh, that's like the best.

856
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:29.320
<v Speaker 2>It feels like that all day after you do one. Also,

857
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:33.719
<v Speaker 2>it did hurt less than wearing high heels at a

858
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:36.599
<v Speaker 2>wedding reception. But I also have never done it again,

859
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:40.280
<v Speaker 2>So there's that. And when it came to researching the book,

860
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:43.159
<v Speaker 2>both personally and like taking a trip out and jumping

861
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.559
<v Speaker 2>in the ocean hopefully having tea, yeah, lot of tea,

862
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and like pouring through all this research, how did you

863
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:56.159
<v Speaker 2>figure out which research was well vetted? And you can't

864
00:47:56.199 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 2>quite do a double blind research on sea swimming versus

865
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.719
<v Speaker 2>staying inside, So like, how how does the research for

866
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:08.679
<v Speaker 2>this go into it? Especially if we're kind of geared

867
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:14.199
<v Speaker 2>toward seeing a placebo pill versus an active ingredient, Like,

868
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:15.320
<v Speaker 2>how do you research it?

869
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a great question, and it's why some of

870
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:23.039
<v Speaker 3>this research comes onto very valid criticism sometimes. I think

871
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:25.360
<v Speaker 3>the way that I wanted to structure the book is

872
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.800
<v Speaker 3>sort of in like two levels. So on one level,

873
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.840
<v Speaker 3>there's all of the science showing that movement is really

874
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.119
<v Speaker 3>good for us. Nature's really good for us, art is

875
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.719
<v Speaker 3>really good for us. And in those service belonging, right,

876
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.679
<v Speaker 3>and in those studies, we have the best kind of

877
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 3>data we have, you know, longitudinal studies showing that people

878
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:49.800
<v Speaker 3>who have close social connections literally live longer than those

879
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.559
<v Speaker 3>who don't. This is based on eighty years of data.

880
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:54.840
<v Speaker 3>Same with people who garden, same with people have a

881
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:58.719
<v Speaker 3>strong sense of purpose. Right. We also can you know,

882
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.280
<v Speaker 3>like we did with the nature walking study, you can

883
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:04.800
<v Speaker 3>sort of randomize people, put them into conditions, do all

884
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:09.159
<v Speaker 3>these physiological tests that demonstrate Yeah, movement, nature, art, service

885
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:11.960
<v Speaker 3>belonging really really good for us and certainly not bad

886
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.280
<v Speaker 3>for us. Yeah, but you're absolutely right that the social

887
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 3>prescribing bit it can be tough to measure because it's

888
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.199
<v Speaker 3>kind of like the problem is the solution people have

889
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.400
<v Speaker 3>to opt in, and we don't want to. We don't

890
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 3>want to force a social prescription on somebody who's absolutely

891
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:32.880
<v Speaker 3>has zero interest in this. But it is true that

892
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:36.280
<v Speaker 3>when we look at the data suggesting that social prescriptions

893
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.199
<v Speaker 3>do work for things like mild anxiety and depression, they

894
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:43.400
<v Speaker 3>do improve people's mood, they do help people feel less

895
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:47.639
<v Speaker 3>lonely and manage their stress, and then they reduce pressure

896
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.280
<v Speaker 3>on healthcare over time. There were some studies in England

897
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.320
<v Speaker 3>showing that one in five people going to the doctor

898
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.800
<v Speaker 3>are doing that for social reasons.

899
00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, Oh that makes me so sad and

900
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:00.000
<v Speaker 2>sick to my stomach.

901
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, so sad. There was even this one

902
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:04.639
<v Speaker 3>story I heard about a guy who would check himself

903
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.760
<v Speaker 3>into the emergency room every Friday night because he was

904
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.480
<v Speaker 3>so lonely and afraid of being alone on the weekend.

905
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, this weekend. I actually had lunch with a

906
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.599
<v Speaker 2>few friends, and one is an er nurse in California,

907
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.960
<v Speaker 2>and she says her favorite patients are her regulars, the

908
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:23.440
<v Speaker 2>ones who may be older or sometimes unhoused, and they

909
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:25.800
<v Speaker 2>need a place to go for a night where people

910
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:27.960
<v Speaker 2>will be kind to them and they can get a

911
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:31.519
<v Speaker 2>shower or a sandwich or they're just lonely and they

912
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:35.119
<v Speaker 2>need company. And she says, many other healthcare professional side

913
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.440
<v Speaker 2>eye them, but she knows that they're in a type

914
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:39.239
<v Speaker 2>of pain too, and it's real and it makes me

915
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:40.360
<v Speaker 2>want to cry so hard.

916
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:44.079
<v Speaker 3>And so in those sorts of situations, a social prescription

917
00:50:44.360 --> 00:50:47.880
<v Speaker 3>makes a lot of sense. And what the data, which

918
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:50.559
<v Speaker 3>is again imperfect for all the reasons we talked about.

919
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:54.400
<v Speaker 3>It's often small scale, there often is no control group,

920
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:59.159
<v Speaker 3>no randomization, but it does seem to suggest that, yeah,

921
00:50:59.239 --> 00:51:02.920
<v Speaker 3>people improve their health and it reduces pressure on health care.

922
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:08.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering is this different in different nations? For example,

923
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.159
<v Speaker 2>if you have nationalized health care, right, they might take

924
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 2>great less of a burden on the system. If you

925
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:19.079
<v Speaker 2>live in a society where health care is for profit.

926
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.639
<v Speaker 3>Not yeah, not nationalized yet yep, do they want you

927
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:27.159
<v Speaker 3>to get better? Is a great question. It's exactly how

928
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:28.880
<v Speaker 3>I said up the book, and I think, you know,

929
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:33.079
<v Speaker 3>there's two answers to that, Like, on one hand, it's

930
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:36.559
<v Speaker 3>true that this is a much easier sell for places

931
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.400
<v Speaker 3>with nationalized health care. That's actually how this began. So

932
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:42.800
<v Speaker 3>this practice began in England in the nineteen eighties, after

933
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.639
<v Speaker 3>you know, doctors were seeing more and more people coming

934
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.480
<v Speaker 3>to them because it's free, Like why the hell not. Yeah,

935
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:53.199
<v Speaker 3>but those doctors then the problem is they only have

936
00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.599
<v Speaker 3>fifteen minutes to see the patient, and if people are

937
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:00.800
<v Speaker 3>coming to them for things that are complicated like depression

938
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.440
<v Speaker 3>and anxiety and you know, things that are not as

939
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:05.800
<v Speaker 3>simple as oh, you have strepped throat, let me prescribe

940
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:09.840
<v Speaker 3>you an antibiotic. That's tough, right, because the patients aren't

941
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.119
<v Speaker 3>getting the care they deserve, and that means the doctor

942
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 3>has less time for the person with the clinical problem.

943
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 3>I tell the story about my friend Gaviy in the

944
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:21.840
<v Speaker 3>book to show you the state of healthcare in places

945
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 3>where it's nationalized, in particularly England, Like there's a little

946
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.760
<v Speaker 3>British component to this. She waited until her tonsils turned

947
00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:34.480
<v Speaker 3>black before she went to the doctor because she was like, well,

948
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, somebody probably has a worse issue than me.

949
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.360
<v Speaker 3>Health care is limited, we don't want to use it.

950
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:42.920
<v Speaker 3>And that's true, Like it's not just England, a lot

951
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:46.840
<v Speaker 3>of places. It's a wonderful thing. I very much support

952
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:50.119
<v Speaker 3>universal health care, but when you make it free and universal,

953
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:54.079
<v Speaker 3>you have more people coming there. So social prescribing makes

954
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Speaker 3>sense from an investment perspective of saying, Okay, if there

955
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:00.519
<v Speaker 3>are people coming to the doctor, the hostel, or even

956
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.800
<v Speaker 3>the emergency room for non clinical, non medical reasons that

957
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.639
<v Speaker 3>might better be treated by a prescription for a ukulele

958
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:10.719
<v Speaker 3>group or swimming lessons or a bicycle than they would

959
00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:14.599
<v Speaker 3>with anything a doctor who's clinically trained can prescribe. Let's

960
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:18.599
<v Speaker 3>do that, and this will save the taxpayer's money, right,

961
00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:23.079
<v Speaker 3>you know. But I was like, that's great, but where

962
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.760
<v Speaker 3>I live in the United States, not only is healthcare

963
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:29.920
<v Speaker 3>not nationalized, but it's also freakin huge. There's also all

964
00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:32.239
<v Speaker 3>these other inequities that you talk about a lot on

965
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:36.039
<v Speaker 3>your podcasts with women and people of color. There's already

966
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:39.000
<v Speaker 3>so much shit to fix in healthcare. So really, is

967
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:41.320
<v Speaker 3>it magical thinking to think that doctors are all of

968
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:44.400
<v Speaker 3>a sudden going to start prescribing art classes. And I'll

969
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.679
<v Speaker 3>say a couple of things, you know. One is that

970
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.519
<v Speaker 3>do you have or do you know anybody who has

971
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:52.920
<v Speaker 3>an insurer who covers their gym classes?

972
00:53:53.559 --> 00:53:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so, I mean, and I can't imagine

973
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:02.360
<v Speaker 2>would they cover like a fitness or an equinox or

974
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:04.400
<v Speaker 2>only a lot you know what I mean, like, what

975
00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:06.719
<v Speaker 2>even is covered? So I don't know. Yeah, I think

976
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:09.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people also are just like I don't

977
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 2>even have health insurance.

978
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:14.119
<v Speaker 3>Right, absolutely, And that's true, right, the healthcare in the

979
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:17.800
<v Speaker 3>US is so limited, And it's true that for some people,

980
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:22.639
<v Speaker 3>particularly older people like my parents, they are actually starting

981
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.920
<v Speaker 3>to get their you know, very cheap and like not

982
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:30.760
<v Speaker 3>fancy gym membership covered. Not because these insurers have wonderfully

983
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:32.800
<v Speaker 3>big hearts and want my parents to be more active,

984
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:37.559
<v Speaker 3>but because this is seen as a money saving investment

985
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:41.039
<v Speaker 3>over time. In other words, if covering a gym membership

986
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:45.280
<v Speaker 3>gets my dad, who loves the couch, loves a pine

987
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.239
<v Speaker 3>of ice cream, is retired, is otherwise not really going

988
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 3>to be moving his body, and is on for blood

989
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:55.519
<v Speaker 3>pressure medications. If a prescription to the gym might help

990
00:54:55.559 --> 00:54:59.199
<v Speaker 3>him get off one of those medications, might prevent future

991
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:02.800
<v Speaker 3>health expenditure down the line, then that's a good investment

992
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:03.320
<v Speaker 3>for them.

993
00:55:03.639 --> 00:55:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So gym memberships may be covered either fully or

994
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:10.239
<v Speaker 2>partly by your health insurance if you have it, so

995
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.000
<v Speaker 2>ask them. That is a step aerobics in the right direction,

996
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:17.679
<v Speaker 2>and healthcare companies who want to pay out less in

997
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:21.320
<v Speaker 2>heart surgeries. Know that access to a rowing machine or

998
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:24.360
<v Speaker 2>some zumba classes keeps you out of the hospital, and

999
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.000
<v Speaker 2>it also keeps more money in their bottom line. But

1000
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.880
<v Speaker 2>it saves you money in terms of deductibles and copays

1001
00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:33.519
<v Speaker 2>and lost work, But what about all the other stuff.

1002
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:36.280
<v Speaker 3>So that is starting to happen in the United States.

1003
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.639
<v Speaker 3>Believe it or not. I'm sure your jaw's about to drop.

1004
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.960
<v Speaker 3>But there are places that are doing the same for

1005
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:47.400
<v Speaker 3>art classes really for similar reasons. Yes, where I'm from

1006
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:50.760
<v Speaker 3>in New Jersey, Horizon Blue Cross, Blue Shield right now,

1007
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:53.719
<v Speaker 3>if you are on one of their plans and you're

1008
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:57.760
<v Speaker 3>at risk of overspending on your insurance, they will prescribe

1009
00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:02.800
<v Speaker 3>you an art class. What in partnership with you know,

1010
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.079
<v Speaker 3>the different art providers in the newer community. And it's

1011
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:09.840
<v Speaker 3>not just the prescription, right, it's transportation, it's all the

1012
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:13.719
<v Speaker 3>work up because you know, they believe that this is

1013
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.360
<v Speaker 3>something that is going to save the money and prevent

1014
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.480
<v Speaker 3>health issues down the line.

1015
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:20.480
<v Speaker 2>For more, you can feel free to kick back with

1016
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:23.239
<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty three Journal of Economy and Society paper

1017
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Social Prescribing and the Search for Value in Healthcare. So

1018
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:29.679
<v Speaker 2>it gives some quick history. Social prescribing emerged in the

1019
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:33.440
<v Speaker 2>US in the nineteen sixties when there was rampant malnutrition

1020
00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:38.159
<v Speaker 2>in children, and one physician, Jack Geiger, started prescribing food,

1021
00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:41.840
<v Speaker 2>which was paid for by the local health center's pharmacy budget.

1022
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.800
<v Speaker 2>So instead of treating the effects of malnutrition with medicines

1023
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.559
<v Speaker 2>that cost money, they just prevented it for less money

1024
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:51.480
<v Speaker 2>with food for the people who didn't have enough food.

1025
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:55.480
<v Speaker 2>So there's plenty of legitimacy and financial reason behind this,

1026
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:59.280
<v Speaker 2>especially where equity is considered. And this paper explains that

1027
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the World Health Organization considers social determinants of health to

1028
00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:08.079
<v Speaker 2>be the conditions in which people are born, grow, live, work,

1029
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and age, and it says these circumstances are in turn

1030
00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:14.519
<v Speaker 2>shaped by this wider set of forces, things like economics

1031
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and social policies and yes, politics, things like patients needs

1032
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:23.920
<v Speaker 2>for housing and food and income benefits and transportation and

1033
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:28.079
<v Speaker 2>legal support can be less expensive than the effects of them.

1034
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:31.079
<v Speaker 2>And this is called value based care and it involves

1035
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:34.840
<v Speaker 2>good economics people. And the paper cites previous research that

1036
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:38.199
<v Speaker 2>has found that nearly ten percent of Americans can't afford

1037
00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:41.519
<v Speaker 2>health insurance and some have to use government funded free

1038
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.880
<v Speaker 2>or low cost programs, and also as a country, even

1039
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:48.000
<v Speaker 2>for those who are ensured. The United States spends more

1040
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:53.119
<v Speaker 2>per capita on healthcare than any other industrialized nation, yet

1041
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:57.039
<v Speaker 2>it ranks far below its peers in health outcomes and

1042
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.840
<v Speaker 2>has some of the worst health inequalities. Even the US

1043
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Secretary of Health and Human Services during Trump's first term

1044
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:08.039
<v Speaker 2>was like, Yo, we're saving nearly four k per patient

1045
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:10.599
<v Speaker 2>if we focus on fixing the cause of some of

1046
00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:13.360
<v Speaker 2>these illnesses, like type two diabetes, because we all know

1047
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:16.840
<v Speaker 2>insulin is not cheap. We have a diabetology episode that

1048
00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:20.840
<v Speaker 2>goes into it. So conservatism in a capitalist society has

1049
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:23.360
<v Speaker 2>a real like pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get

1050
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:27.639
<v Speaker 2>a job vibe, while also scrubbing the word equity from

1051
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the National Institutes of Health archives, but then spending more

1052
00:58:31.039 --> 00:58:34.639
<v Speaker 2>money to fix the problems inherent to inequity. It's a

1053
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:36.960
<v Speaker 2>real fuck around and find out situation we've got going

1054
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.760
<v Speaker 2>on here, So it doesn't align with money saving. And

1055
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:44.079
<v Speaker 2>also on the social conservatism and the bent toward religion

1056
00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:48.800
<v Speaker 2>based politics and this newly established White House Faith Office.

1057
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:51.800
<v Speaker 2>I do want to cite the Bible, which I google

1058
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:54.960
<v Speaker 2>to find a few passages such as Matthew ten eight.

1059
00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:59.519
<v Speaker 2>Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,

1060
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.719
<v Speaker 2>drive out demons freely you have received, freely give. Now.

1061
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a religious person, but perhaps the new Department

1062
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of Government Efficiency can find some good economic strategies in

1063
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:14.320
<v Speaker 2>those God bless the USA. Trump approved bibles that sell

1064
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:17.360
<v Speaker 2>to schools for sixty to one hundred dollars, So yeah,

1065
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:20.679
<v Speaker 2>crack that open and find some good economic policies, because

1066
00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:23.599
<v Speaker 2>a thousand in prevention might be worth a million in cures. Now.

1067
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Health insurance companies also a good strategy, so if it's

1068
00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:29.639
<v Speaker 2>good for their bottom line, then they'll help you out.

1069
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.119
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting to come at it from a instead

1070
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:35.559
<v Speaker 2>of everyone telling me I should go and I should volunteer,

1071
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:38.119
<v Speaker 2>I should join a thing, and I should exercise the

1072
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:40.320
<v Speaker 2>data DA. It's nice to think of it as like

1073
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:41.920
<v Speaker 2>sticking it to the man a little bit.

1074
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:42.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1075
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Look, it's kind of nice to be like, no, I'm

1076
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:47.920
<v Speaker 2>gonna do this for me, so you can't keep you

1077
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:51.519
<v Speaker 2>inside scrolling and buying things to try to feel better, Like,

1078
00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:53.360
<v Speaker 2>fuck you, So I'm going to go for a walk

1079
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.480
<v Speaker 2>in the park instead of engaging in capitalism. To try

1080
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:58.239
<v Speaker 2>to make me feel better because it doesn't even work.

1081
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.440
<v Speaker 3>Hell yeah, I love a good fuck you walk exactly

1082
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:07.559
<v Speaker 3>Like It's so true, though, I mean, and that's where

1083
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:12.280
<v Speaker 3>like these badass doctors are coming into play. I think, frankly,

1084
01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:16.119
<v Speaker 3>between you and me and your listeners, insurance companies are

1085
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:18.039
<v Speaker 3>probably going to be the last to buy into this.

1086
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:20.679
<v Speaker 3>There's some, there are some, and I think again, like

1087
01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:23.760
<v Speaker 3>insurance sent to me is bad, bad, bad bad Right

1088
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:27.320
<v Speaker 3>now in the USA, I'd say some are trying to

1089
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.360
<v Speaker 3>do this and say, look, you know we care. But

1090
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:31.960
<v Speaker 3>I think it's really going to happen first with doctors

1091
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:35.159
<v Speaker 3>and therapists. Like my best friend Kate, for whom that's

1092
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:39.400
<v Speaker 3>exactly true for she was seeing a teenager who kind

1093
01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:43.599
<v Speaker 3>of like Amanda, was put in a really stressful environment

1094
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:48.519
<v Speaker 3>and was severely depressed and wanted to get this girl therapy,

1095
01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:52.639
<v Speaker 3>but the only therapist that was in her insurance plan

1096
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:56.119
<v Speaker 3>didn't have availability for six months. So what are you

1097
01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:57.880
<v Speaker 3>going to do tell someone who's severely depressed to wait

1098
01:00:57.920 --> 01:00:59.880
<v Speaker 3>six months? No, you're going to prescribe them an SSR,

1099
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.000
<v Speaker 3>And again, like that can be a great solution for

1100
01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:06.840
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people. I think the problem is that

1101
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:09.280
<v Speaker 3>it shouldn't be the only solution. We shouldn't be doing

1102
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.559
<v Speaker 3>that because the other options feel too hard or too unavailable.

1103
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:16.199
<v Speaker 3>We should be really trying to prescribe people what is

1104
01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.880
<v Speaker 3>the best thing for them. And so my friend Kate,

1105
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 3>who is a doctor and loves this, says, I would

1106
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:27.519
<v Speaker 3>love to have prescribed her an art class. She's extremely creative,

1107
01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:29.679
<v Speaker 3>and I think being in an environment that's not her

1108
01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:32.199
<v Speaker 3>current home environment that could surround her with people who

1109
01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:35.000
<v Speaker 3>would inspire her, that would be amazing. But where do

1110
01:01:35.079 --> 01:01:38.039
<v Speaker 3>I begin. That's where the work ahead is. Ah.

1111
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I have questions from listeners. Can I ask? Okay? One million? Okay?

1112
01:01:41.079 --> 01:01:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Also we donate to a charity of your choice. Is

1113
01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:44.760
<v Speaker 2>there any off the top of your head that's related

1114
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:46.440
<v Speaker 2>or you can think about it too.

1115
01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:50.559
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I have one I love. It's called grow NYC.

1116
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Which is lovely because grow NYC was born in the

1117
01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:56.320
<v Speaker 2>spirit of the first Earth Day, which is appropriate for April.

1118
01:01:56.559 --> 01:01:58.840
<v Speaker 2>And their mission is to empower all New Yorkers with

1119
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:03.519
<v Speaker 2>equitable acts us to fresh, locally grown food, neighborhood green spaces,

1120
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:04.719
<v Speaker 2>and care for the environment.

1121
01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:08.280
<v Speaker 3>So you know, we know that nature Art Service movement

1122
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:11.320
<v Speaker 3>belonging is amazing for us. We also know that those

1123
01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:14.239
<v Speaker 3>opportunities are not as available to some people, so groups

1124
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:18.440
<v Speaker 3>like Grow NYC work to put on free horticultural education,

1125
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:23.239
<v Speaker 3>free field trips, investing in green spaces so that more people,

1126
01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:25.920
<v Speaker 3>regardless of your income or where you live, can have

1127
01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:27.320
<v Speaker 3>access to these medicines.

1128
01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:30.400
<v Speaker 2>So cool, We're can it donate in your honor and

1129
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:32.280
<v Speaker 2>then we'll put a link off so in the show notes.

1130
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:34.840
<v Speaker 2>I know I've already kept you so long because this

1131
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.400
<v Speaker 2>is the best, but you have time for some listener questions.

1132
01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:42.920
<v Speaker 2>We'll fire up absolutely let's spire away sweet so she's

1133
01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:45.440
<v Speaker 2>down to clown a little longer, and we will return

1134
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:49.639
<v Speaker 2>next week to answer questions about forest bathing, health insurance,

1135
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:53.159
<v Speaker 2>social prescribing in different parts of the world, disabilities and

1136
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:56.920
<v Speaker 2>social prescribing, animal therapy, how to handle the social part

1137
01:02:56.920 --> 01:03:00.960
<v Speaker 2>if you're an introvert or frankly hate socializing, and how

1138
01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:05.559
<v Speaker 2>these strategies are used even in dire medical circumstances. And

1139
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:09.920
<v Speaker 2>why also writing a pedicab for zero dollars could benefit everyone.

1140
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:12.760
<v Speaker 2>So we'll be back next week with those So ask

1141
01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:18.679
<v Speaker 2>Salu genealogical people sometimes basic questions and people buck the system,

1142
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:23.440
<v Speaker 2>do the things your ancestors evolved you to do. Mindless

1143
01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.000
<v Speaker 2>scrolling steals your time and life and money, not to

1144
01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:31.480
<v Speaker 2>mention your data. Pharmaceutical companies and insulin makers love it

1145
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:34.119
<v Speaker 2>when you're sick and sad. And there are people out

1146
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:37.239
<v Speaker 2>there whose lives will be changed by hanging out and

1147
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:41.199
<v Speaker 2>crafting or biking or fishing or chatting, including ours. So

1148
01:03:41.679 --> 01:03:45.360
<v Speaker 2>next week we'll be back with more suggestions, research and encouragement,

1149
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:48.960
<v Speaker 2>because honestly, this two parter it's an actual lifesaver. As

1150
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:50.880
<v Speaker 2>far as I'm concerned, I think it's one of our

1151
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:54.760
<v Speaker 2>most important episodes in that realm. So tell everyone you

1152
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:57.559
<v Speaker 2>know to listen. Things are hard and we need to

1153
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.760
<v Speaker 2>not burn out. We got to survive this. Since this

1154
01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:04.679
<v Speaker 2>interview with Julia, I have started walking around my favorite

1155
01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:06.960
<v Speaker 2>lake four or five times a week. I love it

1156
01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:09.360
<v Speaker 2>so much that I got the shape of the lake

1157
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:12.000
<v Speaker 2>painted on one fingernail to remind me every day how

1158
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:15.480
<v Speaker 2>much that simple thing makes me so much happier and

1159
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:17.920
<v Speaker 2>gives me something to look forward to and makes me

1160
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.880
<v Speaker 2>less pissed and anxious. I'm also getting my work done

1161
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:24.639
<v Speaker 2>in much less time because I'm not constantly looking for

1162
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:29.079
<v Speaker 2>something online to raise my spirits, which it never does.

1163
01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:31.519
<v Speaker 2>And since I've been walking more, Jarrett and I have

1164
01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:34.360
<v Speaker 2>been taking Grammy to this nearby park and walking and

1165
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:38.400
<v Speaker 2>she gets to sniff, pee and terrorize lizards, even though

1166
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:41.559
<v Speaker 2>she never comes close to catching one. I literally found

1167
01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:45.000
<v Speaker 2>my ukulele and I dusted it off, and my first

1168
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:48.559
<v Speaker 2>session with this ukulele group is this coming weekend. And

1169
01:04:48.639 --> 01:04:51.599
<v Speaker 2>I wrote and researched this entire episode outside under an

1170
01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:56.800
<v Speaker 2>umbrella in my backyard, smelling trees, hearing hummingbirds orby, and

1171
01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:59.320
<v Speaker 2>letting g Remy hang out, keeping her eyes open for

1172
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:02.960
<v Speaker 2>lizards w do catch. And I thought that I had

1173
01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:06.039
<v Speaker 2>to earn this, but I don't. This is the stuff

1174
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:09.239
<v Speaker 2>that makes life easier and makes us stronger to get

1175
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:12.320
<v Speaker 2>through the hard parts. You don't wait until you earn it.

1176
01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:15.679
<v Speaker 2>You just take a fuck you walk, don't surrender your

1177
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.800
<v Speaker 2>life to corporations, cut banks, text your crush, volunteer somewhere

1178
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 2>you selfishly just love being. You can join a club,

1179
01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:25.599
<v Speaker 2>you can start a club. Thank me later, Thank Julia

1180
01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:28.000
<v Speaker 2>once again. Her book is The Connection Cure, and you

1181
01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:30.599
<v Speaker 2>can find her on Instagram at Hot's Thoughts, which we'll

1182
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.760
<v Speaker 2>link in the show notes. Along with grow n YC.

1183
01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:35.000
<v Speaker 2>We have links to all the research we talked about

1184
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:37.960
<v Speaker 2>on our website at aliward dot com slash salu genology

1185
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:40.079
<v Speaker 2>that's linked in the show notes. We are at ologies

1186
01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:42.519
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram a blue sky. I'm Ali Ward with one

1187
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:45.840
<v Speaker 2>L on both smologies or shorter kid friendly episodes, and

1188
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:48.320
<v Speaker 2>they're wherever you find podcasts. They're also linked in the

1189
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:51.199
<v Speaker 2>show notes. You can find merch at ologiesmerch dot com.

1190
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:53.800
<v Speaker 2>You can tag any photos of you in it ologies

1191
01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:56.880
<v Speaker 2>merch or just tag us and we'll repost you on Mondays.

1192
01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to Aaron Talbert, who admins the Ologies podcast

1193
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Facebook group. Avelene Mallick makes our professional transcripts. Kelly ar

1194
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Dwyer does the website. Noel Dilworth is our lovely scheduling

1195
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:08.320
<v Speaker 2>producer who also posts your art on Fridays and your

1196
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:11.559
<v Speaker 2>merch on Mondays. Susan Hale Managing directs the heck out

1197
01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:14.519
<v Speaker 2>of things. Jake Chafy edits beautifully and lead editor who

1198
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:17.320
<v Speaker 2>connects it all together is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio.

1199
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Nick Thorburn made the theme music and if you stick

1200
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:21.719
<v Speaker 2>around to the end of the episode I do tell

1201
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:23.360
<v Speaker 2>you a secret. I already told you a long one,

1202
01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:26.559
<v Speaker 2>but I will end it with as proof of how

1203
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:29.199
<v Speaker 2>much easier it's been for me to just stay on task.

1204
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:31.679
<v Speaker 2>I need you to know that. Jarrett sent me a

1205
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:35.880
<v Speaker 2>link to a video tour of the one hundred and

1206
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:40.119
<v Speaker 2>twenty acre one hundred year old home that looks like Heaven,

1207
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:44.039
<v Speaker 2>owned by Walton Goggins, who is sweet Baby Billy on

1208
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the Righteous Gemstones, also Rick from White Lotus, Whoms I Love,

1209
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:51.719
<v Speaker 2>and I clicked on this video tour of this beautiful

1210
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:54.079
<v Speaker 2>house and I was like, I'm going to save this

1211
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:56.960
<v Speaker 2>for later after I finish the show. Who is she?

1212
01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:59.119
<v Speaker 2>She's someone who walks around the lake and takes her

1213
01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:02.280
<v Speaker 2>dog to the park and apparently has increased executive function.

1214
01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:05.719
<v Speaker 2>So thanks Julia. Okay, go gather some friends or strangers,

1215
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:08.880
<v Speaker 2>make a diorama in an empty pill bottle. Tag me

1216
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:10.760
<v Speaker 2>in any photos that you make so I can see

1217
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:25.360
<v Speaker 2>what you love. Okay by by pacodermatology, homeiology, or doo zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, paratology, apology, seriology, selenology.

1218
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:34.440
<v Speaker 2>I also play recketball. Do you have any hobbies?

1219
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:40.639
<v Speaker 1>Love? Mins, quality and value? You can trust. At MINS,

1220
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:44.280
<v Speaker 1>you can update your home, your wardrobe and theirs with

1221
01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:48.079
<v Speaker 1>quality you can count on. There's the Ultimate twelve euro

1222
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:52.599
<v Speaker 1>les Bras, the softest ever kid sweats from six euro fifty,

1223
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:57.440
<v Speaker 1>luxurious Egyptian cotton towels from eight euro twenty five, and

1224
01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:01.840
<v Speaker 1>so much more value you can trust only at M

1225
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.760
<v Speaker 1>and S Shop in store, or at Marks and Spencer

1226
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:05.199
<v Speaker 1>dot i e