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Speaker 1: I want to say too, that our nation is yearning

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for love and community, that people want to know how

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we can live deeper and more meaningful lives. We have

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been looking for those spiritual teachers in our life today

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who can help us return to love and community. And

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part of what is interesting about us as a country

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is that the vast majority of people in this country

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still say they're Christians. We know one of the heartbeats

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of Christianity is the idea that God is love, that

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we are realized more fully as spiritual beings through love.

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So the question becomes, if we think this, if this

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is at the core of our beliefs, why are we

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not living it out in our actions? And that's the

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kind of political and spiritual question, because I feel like

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we have to attend to the needs of the spirit.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Bell hooks to the word on words. This book

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is called All about Love, New Visions. It's yours. I

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count eighteenth book. That is a high achievement to be

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an author with the eighteen books, and this one about

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Love approaches the subject from fascinating perspective. You say at

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the outset, maybe in the preface or the introduction, you

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say that as a small child, you knew love and

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then somehow was taken from you. You lost it, and

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in trying to rediscover it, you found it was terribly

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difficult to do. And that when you would talk to

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people later on, and I'm moving ahead now, when you

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would talk to people later on about your search for love,

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people would say, you know, you really need to see

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a therapist. But talk about because you write about it

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so eloquently, talk about the need of children for love

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if they're going to have it throughout their lives.

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Speaker 3: Well, I start off this book saying that I felt

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as a child what it was like to be loved

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and to be recognized, and then I felt that love

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move away, particularly talking about my relationship with my father,

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which I think that lots of people feel that our

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intimate connections with our mothers remain forever.

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Speaker 1: But many, many adults have talked with me now about

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their since as children, that they held their father's regard

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in love at a certain moment of time and then

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lost them. And I've been amazed at the number of

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people that have come up to me after reading the

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preface and said to me, that's exactly how I felt

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as a child. But I couldn't tell anyone because we're

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not allowed to talk about not being loved. In our culture.

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We're made to feel that everybody knows love. I talk

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in the book about all of these people who'll say,

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you know, my dad beaten or mom did this, but

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she really loved me. And a key chapter in the

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book is the chapter on children, where I'm saying that no,

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in fact, if we are being abused in any way,

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we are not being loved. That love is amphithetical to them.

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Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen. That was the legendary Bell Hooks. Y'all

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know what's up, the voice of reason re energized. Shout

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out to my big brother, Maurice Williams.

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Speaker 5: Big mo.

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Speaker 4: I'm re energized because we were able to give him

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the piece he needed. We gave him the homegoing that

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he needed. And of course I've been thinking quite deeply

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and Bell Hooks was laying out some stuff, man, and

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I'm just starting to see it totally different. You know,

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in my psychological studies, I'm starting to see it totally different.

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We have normalized needing, we have normalized detachment, we have

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normalized craving. And even in the framework that she was

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laying out you know about childhood and the parent, and

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one parent can get away with a certain level of

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abuse of even marginalization, minimization can get away with it.

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But these are cultural archetypes mom versus you know, father

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versus mother. But this topic that I have been working

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on the heart of the matter. But so you guys know,

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I've been on a tear against need, right. I said,

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need is the original sin for me, and we've built

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a whole intellectual architecture infrastructure around needing. You know, a

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healthy relationship is when two people need each other and

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they meet each other's needs, and they love equally, and

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they share and they give, and it's back and forth.

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Speaker 5: What if.

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Speaker 4: This romanticized view right of intimate relationship can only work

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with those who are somehow broken, who find the answer

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in another Think on this for a second before I

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really peel into the topic. Haven't you heard it before,

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Like when you start to heal, when you start to

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climb that ladder of spiritual elevation. Right when you start

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to climb that ladder, you find that you are you

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have less in common with those who are not on

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the path. Now, for the spiritually evolved, everything is all

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one for the spiritually unevolved. This is where loneliness creeps in.

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So I have been thinking about this topic and it's

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a banger. I want you to think. I want you

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to listen and think with me. But the phone lines

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are open. The number to die one eight hundred nine

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twenty fifteen eighty. That's one eight hundred nine twenty fifteen eighty.

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This is a non judgmental space. Your thoughts, your ideas,

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your concepts, your pushback. You're pouring in whatever you want

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to do, it will not be judged here. A lot

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of people want me to push back against people who

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say things that they disagree with.

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Speaker 5: I don't do that.

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Speaker 4: This is a platform for you to voice how you feel.

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Tonight's topic the heart.

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Speaker 5: Of the matter.

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Speaker 4: You matter while you still matter, But will you still

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matter once the matter is settled? Way, hold on, Zoe,

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don't do that. You matter while you still matter. In

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other words, while you're still catering to my wounds, while

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you're still providing for my wounds. This is how when

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we interface in love. Somebody has to fit me, Somebody

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has to fix me. Somebody has to give me what

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I think I don't have.

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Speaker 5: Let me say it. Again.

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Speaker 4: You matter while you matter the moment you cut off

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the supply chain to the wound. Haven't you been treated

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like you never mattered when that happened? When you stop

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showing up for the wounds, right, the thing that they

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now identify with you don't matter anymore? You matter while

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you still matter? But will you still matter once the

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matter is settled? You matter while you still matter, while

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you're providing, while you're giving right. That's why you matter.

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But will you still matter? Means something the matter circumstance

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situation is settled. If you mattered because my wounds needed you,

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who are you to me after healing cancels your assignment?

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What happens when consciousness discovers that the thing around which

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it's organized or it has an it has organized an

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enormous amount of meaning never possessed the meaning that was.

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Speaker 5: Initially assigned to it. One fifteen eighty. Get to your

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phone lines.

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Speaker 4: You meant something to me because you made me comfortable.

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The moment you make me uncomfortable, you no longer matter.

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Speaker 5: DC.

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Speaker 4: Whatded people are asking, zoh I thought you would be

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off today. Nah, nah, this work matters. I'm at my

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brother's funeral, talking like this as I'm eulogizing him. I'm

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talking like this to my family. Do you understand see

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the way we set up in America? You matter when

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you accumulate, when you achieve right, but does your spirit

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matter without the achievement? It tells you we're a blind

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society because if you haven't the societal bobbles and trinkets

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and accoultrement. If you don't have those things, how do

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I know you matter? We are a book cover society.

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We're looking at the book cover. We're not turning pages

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and trying to understand content that's in the book. Do

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you understand that's why this topic is so poignant? The

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heart of the matter, you matter while you still matter?

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In other words, you have meaning while they're supply because

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the supply matters matter material, what you're bringing to me,

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what you brought to the table, the material of it,

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whether it's psychological, emotional, financial.

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Speaker 5: Do you see what I'm saying?

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Speaker 4: Presence? That's the matter?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: You matter?

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Speaker 6: I E.

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Speaker 4: Have meaning while you still matter while the supply chain

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is happening. But will you still matter have meaning once

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the matter situation and circumstance I e. Supply chain as

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well is settled.

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Speaker 5: Tonight's topic.

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Speaker 4: What if the person you swear you love became lovable

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partly because something unresolved inside of you could use them.

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That possibility cuts deeper than coincidence, compatibility, attachment style, or

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the familiar claim that wounded people choose wounded partners. The

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question reaches into the construction of love itself. Perhaps the

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abandoned part of you found someone willing to chase.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna keep it one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: My brother was in a sixteen year toxic relationship with

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someone who would chase him. Now, my people, we all

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Southern folk from Chatanook, and we all showed a level

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of grace and decorum and class. We allowed my brother's

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woman to attend. She sat in the front pew, But

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their toxicity enabled each other's toxicity sixteen years resulted in

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cirrhosis of the liver and many other ailments. You matter

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as long as the supply chain that means something to

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me is coming. Do you understand what I'm saying? Do

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you see I care for you because of what you bring,

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what you do, how you show up in the way

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my wounds need you. Perhaps the abandoned part of you

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found someone willing to chase. The unseen part found an admirer.

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The frightened part found a protector. The financially insecure part

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found a provider. The self doubting part found someone willing

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to believe enough for two people. The emotionally neglected part

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found someone with a capacity to absorb pressure you had

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never learned to hold with your own spirit and someone

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or somewhere inside all of that relief, you said, I

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love you. But is that love true? Is that love real?

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But I want to know what part right of what

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you loved.

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Speaker 5: Was there?

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Speaker 4: What was it? I want to know was it their usefulness?

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Did you what part of them that you actually loved?

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Was it their usefulness to what remained unhealed in you.

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A partner can become important because their presence makes self

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avoidance less expensive. Their emotional capacity can soften the tension

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created by self neglect.

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Speaker 5: I'm destroying myself.

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Speaker 4: I'm killing myself, but you're still here pouring into me.

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Speaker 5: Their reassurance can.

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Speaker 4: Quiet self unbelief without requiring self belief to develop. Their

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money can make fear easier to postpone. Beauty can purchase attention,

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Charisma can purchase access. Status can purchase significance. Sex can

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purchase reassurance. Patience can purchase another day before something buried

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must finally be confronted. Every currency need not involve cash.

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Sometimes one person's finance was Sometimes one person finances the

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lifestyle while the other finances the wound. This does not

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make human exchange corrupt. Love has always existed alongside need, interdependence, labor, protection, kinship, sexuality, resources, sacrifice,

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and survival.

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Speaker 5: When I come forward.

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Speaker 4: The voice of reason, boy, I'm gonna keep this fire lit.

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Your stay tuned.

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Speaker 7: Doctor Tamabryan is a renowned psychologist, author, professor, and minister

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who blends spirituality and social justice to help readers find healing.

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Speaker 8: You're holding on to crumbs can keep you from the

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feast you deserve.

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Speaker 7: She is dedicated to helping people build healthy relationships.

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Speaker 8: Perfectionism can be a form of.

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Speaker 7: Control from trauma and overcome life's challenges.

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Speaker 8: I do the right combination of things, I'll finally be chosen.

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Speaker 7: Join us as we dive into her new book, Matters

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of the Heart.

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Speaker 9: Welcome, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 8: It's good to be here.

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Speaker 7: So, Doctor Bryant, you're a psychologist, author, professor, minister, Can

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you share a bit about your personal journey that led

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to the writing of this book.

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Speaker 8: Certainly so relationships are a central point that people often

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have questions about and issues about. I dedicate the book

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to my mom, Reverend Cecilia Bryant, and last September she

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died of breast cancer, and thank you so much and

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for me, it's true that the grief is a reflection

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of like this great deep love, and she loved fiercely,

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to the point where one of my friends, when she

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met my mother said, I wonder who I would be

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if I had your mother.

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Speaker 9: Wow.

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Speaker 8: And so I know what a gift like a nurturing

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relationship can be. And so trying to help people to

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build that with themselves and with others, family, friends, romantic partners.

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It's a protective factor in terms of our mental health.

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Can help dealing with depression, anxiety, trauma, addiction. All of

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the challenges are easier to face when we're not facing

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them alone.

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Speaker 7: To that point, you emphasize the importance of healing trauma

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as the foundation for creating solid.

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Speaker 10: Relationships, healthy relationships.

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Speaker 4: Why is this so crucial?

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Speaker 8: There are traumas that are like medical or natural disasters,

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But when we have been harmed by another person. It

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causes us, understandably to have those walls up to be

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defended against future harm, to have difficulty trusting, trusting the

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other person, but also trusting ourselves. So it's so important

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that we your mind, body, heart, spirit, nervous system because

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it affects our ability to be seen. Instead of constantly running,

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sometimes we are chasing.

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Speaker 4: Please say her name again, brother, doctor Tama Bryant cooking

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with the rarest grease. I love her work, I love

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her information, but I'm here to push it further. Connection

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is not supposed to last forever. Connection implies this connection.

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Oneness is the goal of relationship. Communion is the goal

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of relationship. If the relationship still needs you could take

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a developmental psychology class and it'll tell you your life is

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better as you get older if you have have a

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core group of you know, relationships like family, friends, you know,

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co workers. Because the idea is you're never going to

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be able to get rid of need. That's the idea,

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We're always gonna need connection. That's how they teach human

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beings are hardwired for connection. And I'm going to challenge that.

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I'm not saying that the neuroscience is incorrect. But I

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believe ancient traditions have already proved that the real separation

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is from God, and that God exists within you, and

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that because you haven't been trained to go in and

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find source in yourself, you find source in another. And

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when you find source in another without locating it within yourself,

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you might run into something called codependency.

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Speaker 5: Do you see.

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Speaker 4: This person mattered to me because they stood in the

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gap for my wound, But them standing in the gap

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for your wound, did it prevent you from going on

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the healing journey? This is a real question the heart

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of the matter. Do you matter because of the matter.

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Speaker 5: You bring to me?

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Speaker 4: Ah, here we come, when we come forward, I'm opening

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up the phone lines. I want to hear from everybody tonight.

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The number to dollar is one eight hundred nine twenty

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fifteen eighty. Let's get busy that.

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Speaker 10: You understand who yourself is, so in order to be

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able to reshape about it consistent with your self interest,

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you got to know what's your interested me and you

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had to know what yourself really is all about.

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Speaker 4: We are living in en goronment, the delima.

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Speaker 11: Of somehow understanding of identifying what our soul really is.

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Speaker 4: Had to become a perplexing question. It used to be

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a time that you didn't have.

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Speaker 12: To convince black people they were black. It has not

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become an option people can select to be black. Maybe

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I'll be black, maybe.

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Speaker 10: I'll be Republican, maybe.

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Speaker 12: I'll be Democrat, maybe I'll be an immigrant, maybe I'll.

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Speaker 10: Be this or that, because they didn't have a choice.

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Speaker 11: We were in a reality that forced us to know

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you black, when.

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Speaker 3: You like it or not, you black.

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Speaker 4: The realities of your rural world you live again, have

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defined that for you, So there was no confusion.

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Speaker 11: People may not have known as Francis Volcity spent all

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of her career trying to help people know the forces

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that were meeting us, that were creating those problems, that

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somehow white supremacy doctrine.

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Speaker 4: That was making it painful for us to be that.

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Speaker 11: But we knew we were black on the plantations.

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Speaker 4: We knew we were black being lich we knew we

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were black post slavery. We knew we were black.

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Speaker 11: And then lo and behold, we got this black man

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in the White House, and we certain.

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Speaker 5: So what am I doing tonight? You hear all my authors? Andy,

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who was that?

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Speaker 4: My friend you are doctor Naim Akbar in here cooking

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with the rarest Greece. Yeah, that was palm oil. He

317
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was cooking wet. I love it. Why am I doing

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this tonight because I'm talking to folks who are saying

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things about my brother and I'm talking about family. Oh

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he made choices. He should have he should have did

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something different. I had to remind you don't. Trauma is listen.

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Trauma is like honey. It'll keep over time. If you

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don't deal with that, it'll stay right there. I think

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archaeologists found some honey in an Egyptian tomb and it

325
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was still edible to three thousand years old. It can

326
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go in there and get that honey and put it

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on some toast and get some butter, and it's three

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thousand year old Egyptian honey. Trauma like honey, it's not

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gonna spoil. If you don't get in your spirit and

330
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deal with it and sit with it and love on

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it and nurture it, you gonna find someone to give

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you the false illusion.

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Speaker 5: I know. I'm sorry to say this.

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Speaker 4: Right. See, when you think you matter because somebody shows

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up to feed your womb, your wound, that's a false

336
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illusion of mattering, because all you gotta do is turn

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off the facet. Whatever material they might give you, security, money, presence,

338
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whatever they're giving, whatever they're doing. If they turn off

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the fawcet you back to square one. It's anight's topic

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the heart of the matter. Sometimes one person finances the

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00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:11,000
lifestyle while the other finances the wound. This does not

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make human exchange corrupt. Love has always existed alongside need, interdependence, labor, protection, kinship, sexuality, resources, sacrifice,

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and survival. The danger begins when we cannot tell whether

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another person matters because we encounter them nude, deeply psychologically nude,

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or because something unfinished within us has calculated their value.

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So many people out here playing games with other people's

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lives because their wounds have an insatiable appetite. Then the

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heart of the matter will change if it's about that.

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Do they matter because you love them, or do they

350
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matter because they are in service to your wounds? Or

351
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:10,079
even deeper, do you only love them for the service

352
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they provide unto your wounds? And if their service to

353
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your wounds help make them lovable to you? What happens

354
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when healing makes their service unnecessary? Does it mean you

355
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use them this whole time. The abandoned part no longer

356
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needs chasing, the frightened part can now withstand uncertainty. The

357
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neglected part finally receives its own attention. I'm here to

358
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tell you self realization. Self actualization is the death of

359
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psychological needing. But because western thought and clinical psychology does

360
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not deal with spirituality, they cannot say when you heal,

361
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and I don't mean when you maintain a wound when

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you're the maintenance man for the woman. I'm saying when

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you heal, need dies too. When we come forward. If

364
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,079
you think I just got started, you be right here

365
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,200
we go now.

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Speaker 6: I'm not telling anybody to jump out and act foolish.

367
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I'm not telling anybody to disrespect.

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Speaker 9: White people, to call them.

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Speaker 6: Names, because that's fear.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 6: What we need to do is to sit back and

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say we are afraid to go further, because that is

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the truth.

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Speaker 9: And as long as there is fear, you will not

375
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pull together the behavior that is going to mean a confrontation.

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Speaker 6: As long as there is fear, there's not even going

377
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to be self respect, because the brain understands that if

378
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,880
you're moving towards self respect, if you're really moving towards

379
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:23,440
self respect, if you're really moving towards pride, that anybody

380
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,920
who says you can stand up, anybody who says your

381
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little children cannot develop will have to be stopped.

382
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Speaker 13: Doctor Francis cris Welson, Come on, doctor Francis chris Well said,

383
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,200
I'm talking to my folk tonight, because I was talking

384
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to my folk last night. I can't judge somebody who

385
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processes differently than you. I had to let my family

386
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:05,519
no and my two oldest brothers.

387
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,279
Speaker 4: You guys heard me talk about them before on this

388
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,279
station several times. Eighteen nineteen months ago, we had that

389
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,720
major fire and both of those guys went mia. We

390
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:29,519
found them at different times in different conditions. But when

391
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:33,160
we were children, my mother was twenty seven years old

392
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,799
and had a nervous breakdown and had to go to

393
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:41,240
the hospital. My brother resented a great many of my

394
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,039
uncles because he felt like and grandmothers and aunts and

395
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:48,839
everybody on my mother's side, because he felt like y'all

396
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,000
could have came and helped us, but instead, all of

397
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:59,480
my mother's children, including myself, went into foster care, except

398
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,839
for the two oldest. They went to juvenile Hall. Well

399
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,920
what was the equivalent of juvenile hall. They suffered a

400
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:21,519
great many atrocities. My brother's father was on heroin. He

401
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:23,839
left the family after marrying.

402
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 5: My mother.

403
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,839
Speaker 4: Left the South and went to Harlem. My father was

404
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,319
no better. He was abusive.

405
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 5: Do you understand My brother was traumatized.

406
00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:48,279
Speaker 4: And broken. And I had to tell my sisters because

407
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:51,119
not both of them, but one of them in particular.

408
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:56,799
You cannot judge your brother because you did not share

409
00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:02,319
the same experience your family, your father and your grandmother

410
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:09,759
came to get you. You did not really experience with

411
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,799
the two oldest brothers experienced. My oldest brother, Anthony, was

412
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:20,480
being held captive in an abandoned house.

413
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:25,519
Speaker 5: Where he was being forced to.

414
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,799
Speaker 4: Do all manner of things right. And one of the

415
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:35,960
things was turn on you know those heaters that you

416
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:39,319
used to have to light the heater, and he was

417
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:41,759
being forced to turn on the heater a house heater,

418
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,640
turned it on. The whole house blew up with him

419
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:50,200
in it. This is my oldest brother, in his teens.

420
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Speaker 5: He survived DC.

421
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:07,079
Speaker 4: Listen. I had to tell my sister, you cannot judge

422
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:16,720
these men who survived to this point. You know, I

423
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:19,519
want the route I went and I did this, and

424
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:25,680
I but that's you. Maybe the trauma we all all

425
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,799
experienced was on a spectrum. Maybe theirs was on the

426
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,839
far end of the spectrum. So there's no way you

427
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,680
can process for him or process as yourself within him.

428
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,519
Don't put your decision making skills on this brother. This

429
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:44,720
is not an excuse for the brother. Yes, the brother

430
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:51,039
was a co creator of his own demise, But at

431
00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:55,599
the same time, that same brother protected you from the streets.

432
00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,759
Like I told my family, I said, you are brother.

433
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:05,599
Oh was forced into the fatherhood role when he himself

434
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:11,480
did not have a father. His father had left and

435
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:14,440
in a lot of ways, his mother left because she

436
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:19,680
had been on psychotropic drugs ever since the nervous breakdown.

437
00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:24,759
But he had to stand in the gap for all

438
00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:28,000
of his siblings, even his older brother. He had to

439
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:32,599
stand in the gap for him the heart of the matter,

440
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,480
That's what I'm saying. Why wouldn't he go to somebody

441
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:39,640
that was toxic, that's all he knew. Why wouldn't he

442
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,359
go to somebody that was fractured when that's all he

443
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,559
knew when he himself was fractured.

444
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:59,359
Speaker 14: You see, listen to the topic. Listen the heart of

445
00:33:59,400 --> 00:33:59,839
the matter.

446
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,839
Speaker 4: You matter. While you still matter as long as you

447
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,320
can do for me, you matter. But will you still

448
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:19,880
matter once the matter is settled? If you mattered because

449
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,239
my wounds needed you, who are you to me after

450
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:32,760
healing cancels? Your assignment? Were many times I would approach

451
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:42,000
my brother with other family members who survived alcoholism, and

452
00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:44,880
I would go to them and we would do interventions.

453
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,760
And my brother, who a deeply private and quiet and

454
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:55,280
he was a gentle giant, did he do you understand?

455
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:04,039
He balked every time someone who could give him security,

456
00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:07,280
someone who could give him escape it.

457
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 5: It was just.

458
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 4: It was like, honey, it was something he couldn't resist.

459
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,760
And I was trying to tell him, you got the strength.

460
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:26,400
You got us through it. Brother, You got us through it.

461
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,440
You protected us.

462
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 5: Do you understand?

463
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: I had to educate the sisters and the brothers and

464
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:37,960
the cousins.

465
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 5: I can't believe Mo was acting like that.

466
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 4: I said, I can because I saw what he did,

467
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,719
what he went through, what happened to him.

468
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 5: I saw that. I saw that with his other brother.

469
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 4: My oldest brother leaves Los Angeles after a major earthquake,

470
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:06,000
moves to New York. He goes to New York, and

471
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,000
every day while he's in New York, he's being gay, bashed,

472
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,960
abused every day. And he stayed there for a few years.

473
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,719
He stayed there, and then one day he calls me.

474
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920
I think it was ninety four. The people in New

475
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,760
York beat the man so bad. They beat him up

476
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,920
every day. They stole his family photo albums, pictures of

477
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,199
us as children. They stole the photo albums in New York.

478
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,559
One day he couldn't take it no more. He said, Bro,

479
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:40,079
can you send for me? Can you bring me home?

480
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:48,559
I said absolutely, I'll bring you home, and when we come.

481
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 5: Forward, I will tell you how me and Big Mo

482
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:54,800
met him.

483
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 4: Come on, man, legendary doctor Amos Wilson. I'm playing all

484
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:13,320
black clinicians and philosophers and authors tonight because my family

485
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:22,519
is a black family that is probably no different than

486
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,199
many other black families out there.

487
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 5: We've all endured hardships.

488
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: My brother was laid to rest yesterday, and he was

489
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:42,639
called to be something that he had not fully embodied

490
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:51,880
within himself, but he did it anyway. When my sisters call,

491
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,159
I'm going to buy a new car, come with me.

492
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:02,320
He's the one right I will go check out the car,

493
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:11,039
check the oil, kick the tires, test driving. If my

494
00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:14,599
mother's boyfriend was tripping, he's the one. If somebody was

495
00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:20,239
trying to jump his little brothers, he's the one. But

496
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,559
inside he was not the one to himself.

497
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 5: Do you understand.

498
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,639
Speaker 4: Your partner can't matter because they pacify your wound. Is

499
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:45,320
what I'm talking about tonight. So back to my story.

500
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,519
My oldest brother, who was still with us, by the way,

501
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,840
he came to the funeral to support his little brother.

502
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 5: He goes to New York.

503
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,039
Speaker 4: Because we had an earthquake here and he was frightened.

504
00:39:05,519 --> 00:39:07,679
Speaker 5: He thought it was over, so.

505
00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:09,639
Speaker 4: He goes to New York. He is abused in New

506
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:15,360
York almost every day because he's an openly homosexual man.

507
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 5: Right, so almost every day they stole everything from him,

508
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,639
robbed him. Every day.

509
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 4: He was I guess. He had a job as a waiter.

510
00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,159
He was making some money. But he loved New York,

511
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,559
the city, he loved the energy, he loved the scene,

512
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,719
the village and all of that, right, but he was

513
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:46,559
harassed daily and abused and beaten. Now, he survived a

514
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:49,840
gas leak in a house in Tennessee that blew up

515
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,719
with him in it. He survived that, He survived the

516
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Alden Park projects. He was the first one to move

517
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:03,719
to southern Califia, Fifornia of our family convinced our mother

518
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,400
to come join her grandmother and uncles and cousins and family.

519
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,960
And this is how we get to Altadena. Well, that

520
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:16,480
earthquake scared him up out of here and he shook

521
00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:21,679
it and went to New York until the beatings got

522
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:22,159
so bad.

523
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 5: He called me.

524
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 4: And he said, can you bring me home. At the time,

525
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,639
I was working for Loud Records. I was the West

526
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:37,280
Coast director of an R for Loud Records Loud RCA,

527
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:40,840
And I was like absolutely. I bought him a ticket

528
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,840
and he came home. When he comes home, it's me

529
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,400
and his protector. We go to see him Big Mo.

530
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,519
Me and Big Mo go to see Anthony. We go

531
00:40:56,599 --> 00:41:03,159
see him staying with our sister. He comes to the

532
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,679
door and he's got on you remember that shirt that

533
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,679
Jennifer Beale was wearing in Flash Dance. He got one

534
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,360
shoulder out. He got on the Flash Dance shirt with

535
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:23,480
the shoulder out. He's got on electric blue eyeliner. His

536
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:26,480
hair has done a certain he got on leg worms.

537
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,440
Me and big mole thought it was our sister. Cassandra asked, hey,

538
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:44,360
where's Anthony? It was him, but we embraced him and

539
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:51,039
loved oni anyway, right, damn, glad to have you back.

540
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:58,199
Glad you made it back. Bro, who thought we lost you? Okay?

541
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,719
Do you have the folk albums?

542
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 5: Nah?

543
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 4: They stole the photo albums. Oh lord lord, they done

544
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:16,760
stole the photo album So we loved on him and

545
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,239
we protected him from that moment on, or so we thought.

546
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:27,000
We living in Pasadena, one day, he goes to the

547
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,440
Pasadena Mall. He's being harassed in the Pasadena Mall because

548
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,840
he's gay.

549
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 5: This man has been so traumatized. It's my oldest brother.

550
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,599
He's been so traumatized.

551
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 4: That instead of running to the security guard and say hey,

552
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:52,079
these guys are harassing me, he jumped off of the

553
00:42:52,199 --> 00:43:01,159
second story. Jumped off the second story, landed on his face,

554
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,599
and his knee knocked out, all of his teeth, broke

555
00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:14,960
his knee cap. Because he was abused early on and

556
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:15,960
throughout his life.

557
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,119
Speaker 5: He's still alive today.

558
00:43:17,159 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 4: We saw him, you know, yesterday, loving on his little

559
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:30,159
brother who protected him.

560
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,159
Speaker 5: Trauma is not something.

561
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 4: That goes away if you don't go in and if

562
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,199
you've lived through the type of trauma that my two

563
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,280
oldest brothers, which I've been talking about, have lived through.

564
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:50,840
If you don't get some help, psychologists, clinicians, psychiatrists, if

565
00:43:50,880 --> 00:44:00,079
you don't go sit with somebody, right, you can only imagine.

566
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:03,880
If I say relationship is a mirror, you can only

567
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:10,679
imagine what those mirrors are gonna look like. And I

568
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,159
had to tell my sisters we all come from the

569
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:23,239
same dysfunction. Don't think his dysfunction is not yours because

570
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,679
it expresses itself differently, or yours is not his because

571
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,400
it expresses itself differently.

572
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 5: Don't think that.

573
00:44:36,119 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: The marriage. That's why I keep saying, marriage don't matter if.

574
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 5: You're not healing.

575
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 4: Right, It's just a piece of paper, it's a social contract,

576
00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:51,840
it's a business. It don't matter unless you're using relationship

577
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,119
for what it is for, and that is to see

578
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:56,840
into yourself. And once you see into yourself, if you

579
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,800
don't have the capacity to work it through with yourself,

580
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:13,159
go get help. Go get help. Do you understand a

581
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:19,800
partner can become important because their presence makes self avoidance

582
00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:23,840
less expensive. This is what happened to my older brother

583
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,719
moe someone who would enable his weaknesses. He was a

584
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,639
co creator of the mess.

585
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:35,159
Speaker 5: Right.

586
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 4: Their emotional capacity can soften the tension created by self neglect.

587
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,519
Their reassurance can quiet self unbelief without requiring self belief

588
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:53,079
to develop. Their money can make fear easier to postpone.

589
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,199
Beauty can purchase attention, Charisma can purchase access, Status can

590
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:06,239
purchase Significance can purchase reassurance. Patience can purchase another day

591
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:15,239
Before something buried must finally be faced. Every currency need

592
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:21,159
not involve cash. Sometimes one person finances the lifestyle while

593
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:25,679
the other finances the wound. This does not make human

594
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:37,159
exchange corrupt. Love has always existed alongside need, interdependence, labor, protection, kinship, sexuality, resources, sacrifice,

595
00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:41,599
and survival. The danger begins when we cannot tell whether

596
00:46:41,679 --> 00:46:45,840
another person matters because we encounter them deeply or because

597
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,559
something unfinished within us has calculated their value to us.

598
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 5: Then the heart of the matter changes.

599
00:46:55,199 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 4: Do they matter because you love them or do you

600
00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:04,320
love them because they are service to your wounds? And

601
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,719
if their service to your wounds.

602
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,559
Speaker 5: Helped make them lovable?

603
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,599
Speaker 4: What happens when healing makes that service that they provide unnecessary?

604
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:22,039
The abandoned part no longer needs chasing what happens to

605
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:26,679
their role in your life? The frightened part can withstand uncertainty.

606
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:33,800
The neglected part right finally receives its own attention. Self

607
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:43,280
unbelief begins surrendering its authority. Financial dependency changes, beauty loses

608
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:51,480
some of its leverage. Status stops functioning as borrowed significance. Listen,

609
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,039
the internal pressure your partner wants relieved no longer requires

610
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:07,400
the same release. Now the matter has been settled. Will

611
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,599
they still matter to you? Once the matter has been settled?

612
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,519
Perhaps healing does not merely change how we relate. It

613
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:23,280
exposes who have been participating in the definition of love itself?

614
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,039
What is conscious choosing? What is fear based?

615
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:28,599
Speaker 5: Choosing?

616
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: What is deprivation?

617
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:39,199
Speaker 5: Choosing? Gosh? Was it a wound?

618
00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:46,079
Speaker 4: Recognizing the person most capable of keeping its world intact?

619
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 5: We gotta get to it.

620
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,199
Speaker 4: The voice of reason is on fire tonight. I'm sharing

621
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:57,159
my heart a little bit. Let's get it. When I

622
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,599
come forward, I'm gonna keep cooking.

623
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:03,519
Speaker 8: You talk about the impact of American chattel slavery.

624
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 15: They go, well, how do I understand? How do you

625
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,639
connect slavery with contemporary African American behavior. I said, how

626
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:11,320
can you not three in thirty nine years of trauma.

627
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,159
This is a kind of pushback you get when you

628
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:15,760
talk about slavery. Well, I I wasn't there, I didn't

629
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,480
do it, and that was a look at how long

630
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:20,159
ago that was, you know. But what made it unique

631
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:24,039
from any other form of enslavement the length of servitude,

632
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:27,519
the treatment of the enslavery, the rape, the pillage, the

633
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:34,559
destruction of people. Europeans systematically turned the capturing, shipping, and

634
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,239
breeding of other human beings into a business that would

635
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,119
become the backbone of an entire economy. The other myth

636
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,519
is that slavery ended and the playing field got level,

637
00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:48,639
And that's just not true because after slavery came the

638
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,719
multitude of lynchings, all the way up through George Floyd

639
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,280
three into thirty nine years of trauma, was there any

640
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,079
therapeutic assistance? Nobody showed up. You've been harmed, and that

641
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:04,119
requires more than medicine and talk therapy. That requires justice.

642
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,559
Healing cannot happen without justice, you know. Malcolm X said,

643
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:12,639
if you stick a knife nine inches into my back

644
00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:15,719
and you pull it out three, that's not progress. Even

645
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,639
if you pull the knife all the way out, that's

646
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:21,840
not progress. Progress is healing the wound, and America hasn't

647
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,000
pulled out the knife. I believe that we are the

648
00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:27,840
pupil of the eye surrounded by a sea of white.

649
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:31,199
But it is a pupil that contains the site. It

650
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:32,920
beholds what is before it.

651
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 4: That's scriptural. That is what the greatest fear is. You

652
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:51,280
already know Legendary Dorsey High Zone, doctor Joy degru In

653
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:56,039
the seventies, my mother moved into a place called Alton

654
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:07,079
Park Projectston County, Chattanooga, Tennessee. Sit back, let me paint

655
00:51:07,079 --> 00:51:12,360
the picture. You turn off the lights, and the kitchen

656
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:13,599
starts moving.

657
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:15,599
Speaker 5: Moving.

658
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that's when the mice and the rats and

659
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,199
the roaches and all of that stuff starts coming out.

660
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:26,960
As soon as the lights go off, they come out.

661
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 5: You understand.

662
00:51:33,039 --> 00:51:35,159
Speaker 4: Took her five years to get her kids back.

663
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 5: From foster care.

664
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:49,119
Speaker 4: The projects were already doing its damage on the kids, right,

665
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:54,360
just the nature the environment of it. But then poverty.

666
00:51:54,599 --> 00:52:03,840
The projects are what projects experiments socioeconomic depravity in that place.

667
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,719
My mother wanted us out of there. She got us

668
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:16,639
out because of my older brother Anthony. We all moved

669
00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:20,920
into his one bedroom apartment on six sixty five West

670
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:31,639
Altadena Drive, Apartment twenty three. You understand.

671
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:31,599
Speaker 5: Cut.

672
00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:36,119
Speaker 4: Two years later, he jumps off of a second story

673
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:42,559
balcony in the Pasadena Mall and me and Moe go

674
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:46,480
to the hospital, the very hospital. Moe dies in the

675
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:49,599
very hospital. My daughter is born in the very hospital.

676
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:54,039
My mother died in We go to Huntington Hospital.

677
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,079
Speaker 5: To see Anthony, and.

678
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 4: The first thing MO said was, Man, I know you

679
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,079
don't want to hear this, but you probably should have

680
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:07,920
let them beat you up because you hurt yourself more

681
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,119
than they ever could. And even then I was in

682
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:13,920
my early twenties, I had to wear with all to say, no, Mo,

683
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:19,519
you know what he'd been through. You can't give him

684
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:25,400
that kind of advice. He was terrified, and when you're terrified,

685
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:26,239
you do anything.

686
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,079
Speaker 5: So he becomes terrified for the rest of his life.

687
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,599
Speaker 4: In the two thousands twenty ten, I think it's twenty

688
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,800
seventeen eighteen or something like that, he gets an apartment.

689
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:53,679
Anthony does I'm going to tell you what sent him

690
00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:56,840
back into the streets of homelessness.

691
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 5: When I come forward, mighty welcome back. Can you hear me.

692
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 16: Hey, this is exciting. Can't imagine how happy I am

693
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:17,360
that doctor Curry is here. So all right, So, instead

694
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,840
of reading to you doctor Tommy Curry's biography, which is

695
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,280
included in the conference program, I want to briefly say

696
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,480
a few words about the relevance of his academic work today,

697
00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:30,440
particularly his latest book. Let me be emphatic. You must

698
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,519
buy and read The Man Not Raised, Class Genre and

699
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:40,280
the Dilemmas of Black Manhood. Why because it is one

700
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,760
of the most important books I have read recently. With

701
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,679
The Man Not Curry did not just author the twenty

702
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:50,280
eighteen winner of the American Book Award, but he also

703
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,199
inaugurated an entire field by the name of Blackmail Studies,

704
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,880
which is described as follows. Blackmail Studies is an interdisciplinary

705
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:04,039
yield dedicated to exploring the various developmental trajectories and the

706
00:55:04,119 --> 00:55:07,679
vulnerabilities racial, sexual, economic of black men and boys in

707
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,119
the United States and abroad. To give you a sense

708
00:55:11,159 --> 00:55:14,960
of the book's significance, The Men Not signals a paradigm

709
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,519
shift or a scientific revolution, to use these terms from

710
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:23,239
Thomas Kuhn's in the Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Kuhn argues

711
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,480
that scientific revolutions or non cumulative developmental episodes in which

712
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,760
an older paradigm is replaced in whole or in part

713
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,239
by an incompatible new one, are inaugurated by growing sense

714
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,360
that an existing paradigm has ceased to function adequately in

715
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,199
the exploration of an aspect of nature to which that

716
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,079
paradigm itself had previously led the way. In both political

717
00:55:47,119 --> 00:55:50,599
and scientific development, the sense of malfunction that can lead

718
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:55,800
to crisis is prerequisite to revolution. In his book, Curry

719
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,960
shows us that the paradigms of feminism and post structuralism,

720
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:02,400
or what he labels theory with a capital T, have

721
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:08,159
ceased to function adequately in the exploration of black male vulnerability.

722
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,960
On the one hand, feminism as a paradigm is premised

723
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,159
on the primacy of sex over race, which results in

724
00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:18,840
a commonly held assumption among theorists that black males are

725
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,840
somehow privileged along the axis of patriarchy because of their maleness.

726
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,119
This assumption, of course, denies the historical facticity of slavery

727
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,400
Jim Crow and the New Jim Crow. It also denies

728
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,239
any empirical evidence to the contrary, that is, experiences of

729
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:41,199
black male vulnerability. Curry's conceptualization of black males as man

730
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:46,599
knots accomplishes at least two things. One, it delinks black

731
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:50,719
maleness from the construct of patriarchy, which, in the context

732
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,559
of the US is specifically a function of white supremacy.

733
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,119
For Curry, black feminism internalizes some of the racist logics

734
00:56:58,119 --> 00:57:01,880
of first wave of feminism, like the ideological fantasy figure

735
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,960
of the black rapist. Curry contests black feminism, particularly intersectional theory,

736
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:10,679
as a paradigm, not because he doesn't believe in the

737
00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:14,440
equal rights of women, but because of feminism's inherent anti

738
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,800
black male logic, an inherent logic to racialized capitalism in

739
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:25,400
settler colonialism. Two, the concept of the man not names

740
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,440
the reality of sexual violence that black males have been

741
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,199
facing since the time of slavery to this day. Curry

742
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,679
shows that black males in the US, although positioned as

743
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,400
super predators in the political unconscious, are actually vulnerable to

744
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,280
different kinds of violence, which render them generically disposable because

745
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:50,880
they are raised bodies that are neither sexed nor gendered. Consequently,

746
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,360
black males are not entitled to being victims of rape

747
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,320
or domestic violence. For instance, I know these are provocative arguments.

748
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,920
Paradigm shifts or scientific revolutions are always provocative in a

749
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,280
good way. I think so. In response to Curry's critiques

750
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,079
of black feminism, I hope that in the near future

751
00:58:10,679 --> 00:58:13,800
will see the establishment of Black female studies as a

752
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,239
field dedicated to studying black females as woman nuts. Black

753
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,920
males and black females need to be in solidarity together

754
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:26,000
in their struggle against white supremacy and racialized capitalism, which,

755
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:29,800
as a matrix of domination is dividing and conquering Blacks

756
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:35,119
inside and outside of academia. Solidarity amongst blacks, as instigated

757
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:39,639
by their common experience with structural racism and super exploitation,

758
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,920
is a manifestation of what Angela Davis calls an intersectionality

759
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,800
of struggles. Now, please give a very warm welcome to

760
00:58:47,880 --> 00:59:00,119
doctor Tommy Curry.

761
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 17: First, I'm so happy to be here. It was a

762
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,239
long flight, so forgive me for for being slightly jet lacked.

763
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 5: UH.

764
00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:10,679
Speaker 17: Let me begin by saying that the paper that I

765
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:14,559
want to deliver today at at limit of a hominy, UH,

766
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:20,320
is about the threshold, is about the proximity that racialized

767
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,039
males have UH to the construct of the human Uh.

768
00:59:24,159 --> 00:59:27,840
I am interested in the violence that de natures and

769
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,000
distorts racialized male subjectivity, if we could even call it that,

770
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:35,920
or rather the position that these entities hold within Western

771
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,840
patriarchal societies. And I think that our ignorance of this grouping,

772
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:46,280
of this position, this artifact in societies that ranged across centuries,

773
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,119
stops any real decolonial or critical lens and how we

774
00:59:51,199 --> 00:59:55,280
actually aspire to a better society. So, throughout the various

775
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,360
literatures that comprise disciplines, the stories of racialized males, conquer men,

776
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,320
and boys are told by their deaths. Theorists have been

777
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,440
trained to look upon these bodies with an intuitive understanding

778
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,880
that rotty mal flesh is the natural consequence of racism, racism,

779
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,960
and xenophobia, so much so that racialized melness holds a

780
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,440
symbolic reference to death. The horrors of violence imposed upon

781
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:25,559
these bodies of lesser men, however, inspire no actual outrage

782
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:26,800
or calls for theory.

783
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:28,239
Speaker 5: They just happen.

784
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:33,599
Speaker 17: The disproportion of homicide by police, strangers or intimates sound

785
01:00:33,719 --> 01:00:38,679
no clarions. Lesser men die and their corpse have become normal.

786
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:43,199
The images of flaccid male bodies mutilated frames and flesh

787
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:47,760
become placeholders for racism, xenophobia, and the police state, so

788
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,679
much soul that there is a syndemity between death and

789
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,800
the least powerful male body within our cultural schemas, little

790
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,960
else about the male victim of violence is thought to

791
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:04,960
be asked. Our theory is beyond its corpse. Sexual victimization, dehumanization,

792
01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:09,400
and economic ostracism are rarely comments of Hubon and the

793
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,320
man not race class genre in the Dilemmas of Manhood.

794
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,639
I attempted to show that not only does this erasure

795
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:19,719
of racialized men have an origin in the social cultural

796
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,920
organization organization of Western patriarchies, but also the philosophical anthropology

797
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:25,719
of Western men.

798
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 18: I'm sorry for this foul weather.

799
01:01:31,079 --> 01:01:31,599
Speaker 2: There it is.

800
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 10: Shall we go on.

801
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 18: With what we were talking about yesterday? I don't think

802
01:01:48,320 --> 01:02:02,119
we finished it. We were talking about human relationship. We

803
01:02:02,119 --> 01:02:06,960
were it was a dialogue between us about human relationship.

804
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:17,960
A dialogue is not a one sided affair, but both

805
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:25,679
of us are taking part in the discussion, in the exploration,

806
01:02:26,519 --> 01:02:37,280
in the understanding together. And again, if I may point out,

807
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:49,880
what we are talking about demands his serious mind, a

808
01:02:50,039 --> 01:02:59,440
mind that is really committed to the finding of a life,

809
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:06,400
a way of living that is totally different, that has

810
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:19,559
real meaning for living, and so on. So we were

811
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:29,119
yesterday morning talking about human relationship and what is involved

812
01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:39,360
in it and what place has intelligence in relationship. That's

813
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:58,079
what we were trying to explore together yesterday. Most of us,

814
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:03,559
I'm not talking I'm just laying the cards on the

815
01:04:03,599 --> 01:04:16,320
table first. Most of us in our relationship depend a

816
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:17,599
great deal on another.

817
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,679
Speaker 4: I'm gonna stop him right there, because that's what I'm

818
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:23,519
trying to get to.

819
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 5: I mean, tonight has been.

820
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,679
Speaker 4: An exceedingly powerful show. You already know I love Krishna

821
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:41,000
Ja Krishna g Krishnamurti, and he starts right there need.

822
01:04:42,199 --> 01:04:50,239
Speaker 5: Dependency. Before we came forward, I was telling a.

823
01:04:50,159 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 4: Story about how my brother, my oldest brother, my brother

824
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,960
they're Anthony.

825
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:04,239
Speaker 5: Became homeless.

826
01:05:05,239 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 4: And I was telling you about how he jumped off

827
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,199
the balcony, and how he was in New York and

828
01:05:09,199 --> 01:05:12,039
how he's abused and of course me and Maurice would

829
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:15,920
always be here to support him and protect him to

830
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:16,519
the best.

831
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,119
Speaker 5: Of our ability.

832
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,679
Speaker 4: Well, he had gotten Section eight and all of that.

833
01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:31,320
He got an apartment over in Rosemead. But he never

834
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:35,599
told us what was happening to him in that apartment

835
01:05:37,519 --> 01:05:46,920
until after he abandoned his apartment. You know, we would

836
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,960
go visit him from time to time. He told us

837
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:54,079
what happened. People were breaking into his apartment, people who

838
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:57,559
lived in his apartment building. Do you see how this

839
01:05:57,639 --> 01:06:00,800
ties into Tommy Jay's work, Doctor Tommy J.

840
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 5: Curry.

841
01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:05,039
Speaker 4: The man not he's not even a human being, can't

842
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:09,599
even be seen. My older brother Moe, who passed on

843
01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:12,840
Thursday last Thursday, experienced the same kind of life, just

844
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:19,239
a little differently different expression. But people in his own

845
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:23,320
building was breaking into his apartment and stealing his stuff,

846
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,800
stealing his furniture. And again, this is a traumatized man.

847
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:32,719
I don't think he's ever sat down with a therapist.

848
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,039
So he decided, Okay, I'm leaving, I'm gonna be homeless.

849
01:06:40,639 --> 01:06:42,440
You guys have heard me talk about him a couple

850
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:47,360
of times on the radio, homeless. He was homeless or

851
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,320
houseless for four years until he got a new place.

852
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 5: Right. I'm sharing all of this.

853
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 4: Because if you take in context my entire discussion tonight

854
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:13,280
with all of the world renowned authors and clinicians, Belle Hooks,

855
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:19,480
doctor Joy Degrue, Tommy J. Curry, doctor Amos Wilson, Francis

856
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:23,800
cres Welson, Naim Akbar. You take in all of the

857
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:29,840
speakers and the narrative that they're painting broken people crash

858
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:37,760
into each other, no infrastructure for healing. And I'm saying

859
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:44,199
all of that to say there's no plateau in America

860
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,360
for black people to sit on and say we good

861
01:07:47,519 --> 01:07:52,559
right here, which means just because you're at a particular

862
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,400
space in life, don't judge someone else, whether they're your

863
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,880
family or not. And it's always at a funeral where

864
01:08:02,719 --> 01:08:04,760
sometimes the ugliness pops up.

865
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:06,679
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

866
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,639
Speaker 4: Do you see what we've been through? You were in

867
01:08:09,719 --> 01:08:13,639
no position to judge. I would have did it this way,

868
01:08:13,679 --> 01:08:15,880
I would have did it that way. And that's why

869
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,680
I created this topic tonight. The heart of the matter

870
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,039
my brother who was forced and I'm talking about the

871
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:30,720
one who passed Maurice, who was forced into the Hercules

872
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:37,039
role when he was still listen to what I'm saying.

873
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:42,960
He's this dude, never lift weights. He was built like

874
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:49,479
Karl Malone six' two six three two twenty just naturally,

875
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:55,960
musk but internally he was still a, fractured broken boy

876
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,760
with no guidance from his. Father then somebody turned around

877
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,520
and say he should have did better with his. Life

878
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:06,840
he made bad. Choices you as his family should never

879
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:11,760
twist your mouth to say that if you understand the

880
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,960
context that created. Demand and yet he still showed up.

881
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 5: To the best of his.

882
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,039
Speaker 4: Ability he can't show up to the best of your.

883
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:24,800
Expectation he can only show up to the best of his.

884
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:34,039
Speaker 5: Ability do you see this is why this show is so.

885
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 4: Important i'm going to have these conversations, unapologetically, fearlessly, Right

886
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,600
i'm going to have this.

887
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:46,319
Speaker 5: Conversation.

888
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:54,359
Speaker 4: RIGHT i love the way that clip broke Down Tommy jay's,

889
01:09:54,399 --> 01:09:58,000
Work Doctor TOMMY. J curry when he talks about how

890
01:09:58,359 --> 01:10:01,279
black men and black, women and he was, like maybe

891
01:10:01,399 --> 01:10:05,680
we create the woman's, studies, right the woman? Not you

892
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,039
have the man not in the woman Not because in this,

893
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:17,279
society you're invisible unless you. Are it's, carnivorous socially carnivorous

894
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,800
as the system needs you to. Be you gotta eat

895
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,159
up others in order to get to the, top and

896
01:10:24,199 --> 01:10:26,960
then you gotta fight. People do you understand that's what

897
01:10:27,079 --> 01:10:32,520
this culture respects? You guys hear me say it all the,

898
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,239
time The Great Christiana. Murthy it is no measure of

899
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:39,439
health to be well adjusted to a sick. Society we

900
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,279
spend a lot of time trying to adjust and climb that,

901
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:48,079
ladder and we wind up stepping on through negative evaluation

902
01:10:48,359 --> 01:10:52,800
our own people that don't add up to a system

903
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:54,800
that wasn't authored by.

904
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 5: Us do you?

905
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:08,239
Speaker 4: Understand, Listen I'm Sooe, williams the voice of. REASON i start,

906
01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:11,680
conversations it's really up to you to finish. THEM i

907
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:15,319
hope you guys enjoyed tonight's. TOPIC i love, Y'ALL i appreciate,

908
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:20,359
y'all And i'll be back next week with four slappers.

909
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:21,119
Deuces