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Speaker 1: On over one hundred thousand in each in its coin price,

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and I get out all the time, how do I

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get into this?

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Speaker 2: What is this? Explain this to me?

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Speaker 1: I had tons of comments on my YouTube videos the

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other day as we analyze an entire Michael Saylor lecture,

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and so I brought on with me today the author

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of this excellent little book, one of the one of

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the authors co authors of Thank God for Bitcoin, and

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his name is Jordan Bush.

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Speaker 2: And we're gonna bring Jordan.

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Speaker 1: On because this is an interesting text that's written from

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the vantage point of Christian ethics and morals. So could

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we apply Biblical principles to the idea of money. I mean,

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I think a lot of the people who believe in gold,

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and gold's a great thing, they understand that we need

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to fix money. We need something that's divisible, some of

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this portable, all these different qualities that make money. But

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I want to talk about bitcoin, and so Jordan's with

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me today. He runs Thank God for Bitcoin, which is

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a conference, and looking forward to checking that out. But

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before we get into that, but why don't you tell

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us a little bit about yourself, how you got into bitcoin,

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and then how you got the idea to co write

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this book.

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Speaker 3: Jay, thanks for having me man.

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Speaker 4: No, honestly, this is the last thing that I ever

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would have thought i'd be doing. My wife and I

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met at Bible College.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to be.

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Speaker 4: Missionaries, and so I ended up we moved to South

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America and helped plant a small church, evangelical church in

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the capital city of Montevideo, Uruguay, and it was really well.

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I was there that again, to our surprise, half of

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our church members were Venezuelan immigrants. We were not expecting that,

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and so I just started asking, you know, why are

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so many Venezuelan people, you know, piling into Uruguay, and

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then just started to find that it was because their

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government hyperinflated their currency they had made, you know, with

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each new you know, government installation, they basically said, Hey,

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we're going to make promises in order to try to

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get people to elect us. And a big part of

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those promises is free money. And so the way that

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they funded those promises that they made was just by

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printing more money, and so over time the money became worthless,

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driving you know, people out of the country into neighboring

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countries and as far away as you know, people in Europe,

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people in the United States, whatever it was. And so

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really very early on in our time in Uruguay, I

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just started to see the effect of currency devaluation and

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how it affects very real, normal people. And so then

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after about four or five years of being in there

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and being there in Uruguay, I got into bitcoin. I

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just kind of heard about it, and obviously had heard

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it about it in twenty seventeen when the price was

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running up, but just really just wanted to understand it.

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I was a philosophy major in college, and so much

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of my desire and interest in it was just from

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a standpoint of, you know, this question of what is money, Like,

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what is this thing? I saw the price gyrating violently

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and everything like that, but I just wanted to try

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to understand what it was. And so really the thing

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that kind of stuck out to me was just to

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realize that bitcoin is created in two thousand and nine,

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in the aftermath of the global financial crisis, to be

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a money that a government couldn't hyperinflate.

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Speaker 3: And so it was kind of when.

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Speaker 4: I had that realization that I just saw, wait a second,

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the situation that we're seeing with our friends and loved

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ones who are you know, Venezuelans who are now right

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here in Uruguay.

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Speaker 3: Has happened over and over again all over.

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Speaker 4: The world over the course of the last fifty years,

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and obviously you know generations before that as well in

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different countries, and so again, just this is a real

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problem that threatens normal people who are just trying to

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work hard and save to provide for their families and

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for ministry as well. You know, we were working as

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missionaries and seeing the you know that with every year

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that goes by, we were having to raise more money,

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we were having to raise more support just to be

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there and minister to people who are in some of

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the hardest situations in the world. So again that was

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kind of my my intro into it was through a

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very unorthodox way of just trying to minister to people

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who are experiencing the consequences of currency devaluation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's we have a lot in common.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize you were also a fan of philosophy.

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I got into Big onoin in twenty seventeen as well.

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I was interested in Oh really, okay, you know, yeah,

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a Bible college as well. So, yeah, we have a

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lot in common. Let's talk about first maybe how when

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we talk about money, A lot of people think of

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it as, oh, that's that dollar over there with the

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all seeing eye on it, and it says fed a reserve,

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and that's a that's the thing the government prints, uh

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to make the economy go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing that really like revolutionized my paradigm when it

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came to bitcoin was understanding what money is, what the

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properties of money are, and then how the dollar actually

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doesn't anymore fit up to those properties and bitcoin actually does.

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So how would you describe to the audience like what

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the real traits of money are and why is bitcoin

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a superior form of that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean a lot of this comes down to again,

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my interest in this was just kind of how do

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I again as a Christian, I was a pastor when

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I first got into bitcoin, So just trying to think about, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, how do I what do I really know and

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how do I know it? About what money is?

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Speaker 4: And so as I started to you know, go down

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like an Austrian economic rabbit hole of just trying to

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understand money from their perspective, you find that money has

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a number of you know, a number of characteristics, a

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number of properties, but money in a number of uses,

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and so you can look at something like, you know,

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money is a it's a store of value, it's a

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unit of account in a medium of exchange. And so

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those are the three you know, uses of money. These

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are ways in which humans are looking for something to

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do the things that historically money has has done. So

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store of value, this is just something as simple as

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I go and I deny myself to serve my neighbor.

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I go take my scarce energy and time and I

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devote it to the service of somebody else. I could

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be doing anything else with that time, but I devote

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it towards helping solve a problem for my neighbor. And

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then my neighbor because they, you know, they appreciate, they're

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grateful for the work that I've done. They want to

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give me something in return that has a lot of

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the same characteristics as the work that I've just done

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for them. So again, it's scarce, it's you know, it

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can't just be created easily. It's gonna last over time.

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You know, the work that I've done for them is

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going to the results will last. And so again, ideally,

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when you're looking for a money you want something that's

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gonna have a lot of those same characteristics as as

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the labor that you've done. And so again, throughout time,

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money has been a free market chosen instrument. This is

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something that obviously there's exceptions to this. Obviously there's been

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governments who created their own currency, but in terms of

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what serves as money, these are free market needs and

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desires that people have, and so they look for something

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that solved again these three uses, the store value, medium exchange,

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Internet of account, and then beyond that there's a number

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of characteristics, so just a number of things that you

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know able to be to be more durable, to you know,

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survive the passage of time, survive entropy, survive you know,

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just daily use.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the things.

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Speaker 4: There's a whole bunch of characteristics of money that you

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could talk about, but overall throughout time, one of the

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things that served really well is money has been gold

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and silver. This is because you can't easily create units

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of gold and silver. You have to go out and

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actually do real work to try to try to you know,

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use gold and silver as money. You have to take

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some instruments, some tools, go dig it up out of

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the ground, you have to pay people to do that.

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You have to refine those those gold or silver minerals

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in order to be in a state that's able to

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be used, and so there's a real production cost to money.

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This has been the case, whether you're using shells, whether

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you're using other kinds of stones. There's a production cost

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to money. And this is the natural and healthy thing

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for about the last one hundred years. In the advent

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of the Federal Reserve, and obviously this has happened in

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other countries and other situations, but in the US context,

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with the creation of the Federal Reserve, and then later

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in the aftermath of the Bretton Woods Agreement and then

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the disconnection from the gold peg with Nixon the Nixon

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Shock in nineteen seventy one, we now have quote unquote

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money or currency that is completely disconnected from scarcity. It's

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not based in scarce resources, it's not based in proof

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of work energy that's been expended to create a scarce good.

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It's really this currency that we use now was totally

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at the behest of a government and their desire and

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willingness to devalue the currency by creating as much monetary

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units as possossible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought you guys did a really good job

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in the book laying that out. You talked about the divisibility,

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the portability, the durability, the recognizability, and the scarcity.

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Speaker 2: And of course the scarcity is the most important.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's shift into why bitcoin is a really

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good asset, Why it's a really good even superior store

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of value because of its twenty one million cap Why

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does that make it so so scarce? And how do

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we know that that's the case? I get this question

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all the time. Maybe they'll just decide to make more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, this totally is. It's in an objection

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that makes a lot of sense given how complicated and

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a lot of technological things are, especially computers. You know,

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it's basically somebody I can't remember who said this offhand,

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but it's Bitcoin is everything that you don't know about

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money mixed with everything you don't know about computers. And

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so anytime you're gonna if you're gonna connect those two things,

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it's just got a lot of people it's just going

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to go right over their heads. So the reality, though,

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is with with bitcoin, there is a programat a programmed

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limit of twenty one million, there's only well there will

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own ever be twenty one million bitcoin. Now again, for

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those math majors at home, you might be sitting there

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looking at that, going wait a second, there's eight billion

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people on Earth. What does it mean if there's only

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twenty one million currency units.

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Speaker 3: Well, the reality is that every.

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Speaker 4: Bitcoin can be divisible up into one hundred million fragments

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that are called Satoshi's and so with that being the case,

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there's far more more than enough currency units for everyone

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on Earth to use bitcoin. If and when we reach

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the situation where everybody had Internet, everybody had you know,

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some of these kind of things, they would be able

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theoretically to use bitcoin, yes, and.

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Speaker 1: So that scarcity, that heart that makes it the hardest

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asset in the world. And that's why we're beginning now,

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I think, to see nation states are starting to figure

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this out. We've had the ETFs and the corporate world

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January last year, you know, basically deciding okay, it's time

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to get into this, and that that also might be

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a place to make some criticisms in the sense of

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do we really want blackrock and these things involved in it?

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But the problem is that you can't really stopped that.

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So the reality is that we could never stop the

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existing system from getting into this because the nature of

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Big One itself, as Max Sizer always says, is it's

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like a black hole that's going to eat everything else.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you agree with that assessment.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that it's going to eventually kind of

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be the superior store of value even over luxury items.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, And the reason is just because

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of a lot of the characteristics as the properties of it.

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So I can't send a Ferrari across the world at

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the speed of light, you know, I can't.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that.

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Speaker 4: I also can't send a bar of gold, you know,

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through through the air at the speed of light.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that either.

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Speaker 4: And then in terms of other luxury goods like art

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and these kind of things, they make great money laundering tools.

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You know, they have subjective value, very you know, just

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dubious value. That can you know, somebody like Hunter Biden

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can create a painting and then sell it for billions

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of dollars or millions of dollars and nobody bats an

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eye because you know, we just have been so gasolate

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to believe that, you know, you know, value is completely.

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Speaker 3: Subjective and all these kind of things.

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Speaker 4: So there's there's lots of things, lots of ways in

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which bitcoin. If you're an honest person who just wants

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to work hard and be able to store your value

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in something that can't be devalued away by a government

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or central bank or anything like those, you know, bitcoin

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is a great option for you. Again, one of my

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favorite things about bitcoin is that I can buy it

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and I don't have to think about it. I can

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store it properly, I can custody it in such a

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way that I don't need third parties to help me

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with it, and then I can just go about my life.

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I can go back to work, I can go back

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to you know, spend time focusing on things you know

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that are more worthy of attention. And then again Bitcoin

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because of its adoption rate, because of the fact that

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it's scarce to give you an idea, there are more

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than sixty million millionaires in the world right now, so

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there are there's not enough bitcoin.

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Speaker 3: For even every millionaire to own one.

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Speaker 4: So I think these these are the type of things

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that you know, as somebody who again just wants to

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work hard and go home and spend time with my

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kids and my family. You know, Bitcoin is is something

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that's very appetizing to me.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You know, remember, know youavoll Harari when he was pushing

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a few months ago the idea of the return to

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central fiat bank currency models.

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Speaker 2: And we need this CBDC.

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Speaker 1: We need this trackable, traceabile control, controllable Fiat model with

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the electronic banking system. He said, quote I'm going to

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paraphrase it, but he said, we don't want the removal

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of third party trust that bitcoin promotes. We want you

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to trust these institutions which have been scamming you forever

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and ever and ever, and all of the the fiat

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currencies all go to zero. So I want to get

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your explanation when we come back from this break, we

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are talking to Jordan's Bush and we're talking about the

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removal of third party risk of other people that we

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have to trust in terms of our must cream or whatever.

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It was a dime and now it's ten twenty thirty dollars.

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Is everything just constantly for no inexplicable reason going up?

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Or is it that the value of the currency goes

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down through debasement, dilution and inflation and in the in

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the ancient medieval world, there was a very well known

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practice of money dilution or counterfeiting, and you would have coins,

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for example, would be mixed with other metals and alloys

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to debase the amount of gold or silver in the coin,

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or you might have other forms of counterfeiting. And even

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in Isaiah and Isaiah one twenty two you have kind

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of a rebuke of Israel who had given into this

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practice through their silver becoming draws. Micah six ten to

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twelve talks about wicked scales and deceptive measurements.

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Speaker 2: You have a similar statement in Proverbs.

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Speaker 1: So the way that we operate in terms of economics

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should be done in an ethical way. And we've never

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been in a point in history where there was a

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way to actually remove counter party third party risk, but

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now we're at that point and that's precisely one of

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the components that bitcoin is a designed to do. And

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we're talking with our guest Jordan Bush today, why is

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it that we want to avoid these risks?

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Speaker 2: Jordan? I mean, it doesn't it seem like we want

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to have.

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Speaker 1: These authorities that can can give us the money and

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tell us what things are money, or should it rather

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be left up to not a central private bank telling us,

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you know, how much currency is available or how much

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debt we can have and basically destroying the currency.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Again, this is it's just like outsourcing of authority everywhere,

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you know, any any time you give away authority, it

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comes with a cost.

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Speaker 3: Anytime.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you if you're a parent and you

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outsource your authority by putting your kids in some again

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different situations why people have to do this, But if

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you put your kids in a public school, you're outsourcing

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your authority to their teachers, and so you're you're at

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the behest of those teachers and those you know, the

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the government who's funding them, whatever. And so anytime you

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outsource authority, you put yourself at risk. You're only as

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safe as those people are trustworthy. And so the same

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thing is true of money. The same thing is true

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of currency throughout history. You know, you have a situation

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where again, where did government currencies come from? Well, initially

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you had the free market chose something like gold or silver,

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and then the government would come and they'd put their

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stamp on it to say that this is the you

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the amount of gold that says that it is you know,

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it just basically was kind of a stamp of approval.

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Not It wasn't the government saying we give this currency value.

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It was them saying, hey, we certify that it's this

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amount of gold, it's worth this much, and so forth.

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It was also a way to demonstrate, you know, this

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is the currency that we accept and use here. It

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was an instrument of of you know, political authority. And

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so this is something where if you look at the scriptures,

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it's also very interesting that in one of the most

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famous passages about money, you have, you know, Jesus holds

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up a coin and he says, who's likeness an inscription

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is this? And then he proceeds to say, you know,

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the coin held an image of Caesar, interestingly, a hell

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an image of Caesar on the front that said Caesar,

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son of the divine Tiberius or Tiberias, son of the

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Divine Augustus, and then on the back it said it

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was a high priest. Basically, so you have on this

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coin the image who is of a person who's the

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son of the divine and in a high priest. And

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so Jesus holds us up and he says, render to Caesar.

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What belongs to Caesar? And render to God what belongs

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to God. And so this is one of these things

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where people as being made in the image of God,

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we serve a very similar function that human money serves

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to governments. And so this is this is a big deal.

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What you believe about money will determine and effect every

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single thing else that that money touches. And so if

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you have a money that's value only comes from the

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fact that a government declares it to have value. Functionally,

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that is the theocratic system in which those government officials

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are central bankers are the gods of the system. So

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if they are the gods of the system, then they

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make the rules in the same way that in a

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world where you know the real God rules, you know

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he makes the rules. And so again, government authorities as

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long as they've existed have wanted to ward off and

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get away from the idea that they have put forth

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that they have limits that they're bound by. And so again,

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scarce money reigns on the parades of governments all throughout history,

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and bitcoin is no exception.

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Speaker 3: One of the reasons that governments don't like.

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Speaker 4: Bitcoin is that it basically is scarce and they don't

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control it, and they don't like things that they can't control,

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whether they be people, points of view or whatever it

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may be, even if it break down to money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it reminds me of a famous person

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who's once said, give me the power to create the money.

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Speaker 2: And I don't care who the elected officials are.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's a couple of things going on

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right now which are good signs. You know, we have

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Trump warming up to you know, the idea of a

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bitcoin strategy reserve, you know Maxi Chizers talked about that

390
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for a long time. Then inevitably there will be this

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sort of game theory playing out that the Nation States

392
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will figure this out and start buying in and that

393
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might be a double edged sword, but it's ultimately it's unavoidable.

394
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But I want to ask you a question about what

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was We had a debate today on Twitter that was raging,

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and my point was that, you know, we talk a lot,

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especially for Republicans and conservatives from many many years, have

398
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talked about cutting spending and cutting government waste, and certainly

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there is a lot of government waste.

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Speaker 2: But in my view, this kind of misses the point that, yeah, there's.

401
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Speaker 1: Government waste, but the real root of the problem is

402
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that there's a private central bank that has the ability

403
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to print and control the currency. They you know, basically

404
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:38,480
buy up the bills, the treasury bills, they buy up debt,

405
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and so it's just sort of this circular debt based

406
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system that is a long term theft of the working class,

407
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and through taxation, there's theft there as well. So basically

408
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getting rid of spending, getting rid of virus, getting rid

409
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of taxes, and their federal reserve, all of that needs

410
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to go. But isn't the root of it the power,

411
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as that famous central bankers to create the money?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

413
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Speaker 4: Again Yeah, if you make the money, you make the rules.

414
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If you set the cost of capital via the interest rate,

415
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then you make the rules. You you can affect both

416
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the present and the future if you do that. And

417
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so what bitcoin does is it takes that power away

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from you know, a government or any other centralized authority

419
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who again, let's be real, doesn't have the the the ability,

420
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the uh you know, the intellect, the the information abailble

421
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to actually do a justice to that kind of a job.

422
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And it puts that job back in the free market.

423
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It just puts it out there. Uh, you know, it

424
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sets an interest rate it sets uh, you know, a

425
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supply issuance. It sets all these things and then forces

426
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individual actors and state actors to adapt to that reality

427
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in the same way that God has created things like gravity,

428
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and God has created a whole bunch of other things

429
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that you know, health principles, uh, you know, nutritional principles,

430
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things that govern reality. There is a reality that's there,

431
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and freedom is found in submitting ourselves to it once

432
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we find it. That same thing as true true scarcity

433
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is a gift. It's not something to be resisted. And

434
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,000
so again, governments are going to wake up to this

435
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,799
reality that they cannot change Bitcoin. They're going to have

436
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:11,839
to adapt their behavior to, you know, to adjust for

437
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the reality that bitcoin exists in the world.

438
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Speaker 2: We hear this term all the time.

439
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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is objective, it's based on math, it's based on

440
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,359
a protocol, and it's based on a global decentralized network.

441
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Speaker 2: Is this true? And what does that mean?

442
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So again we could go each one of those

443
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,960
do there I mean, like, yes, bitcoin is decentralized, meaning

444
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there's people across the world who are running their own

445
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,000
copy of the bitcoin node, a bitcoin the bitcoins software.

446
00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:41,720
A bitcoin node is basically a copy of every single

447
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:45,039
transaction that's ever taken place on the bitcoin blockchain. You

448
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:47,440
can run a copy of this, your own copy that

449
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,079
doesn't force you to rely on anybody else's copy, with

450
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,440
about five hundred gigabytes of you know of a hard drive,

451
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,720
so you can go spend fifty bucks on Amazon and

452
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get a you know, a hard drive that's big enough

453
00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,200
for you to run your own node that basically confirms

454
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and verifies each transaction that's taking place coming to you,

455
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leaving from you. And so you're not forced to rely

456
00:21:07,839 --> 00:21:11,039
upon a third party ledger that we're accustomed to seeing

457
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through things like a normal banking system. So Wells Fargo

458
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,000
right has a has a copy a ledger, Uh, you know,

459
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a spreadsheet that keeps track of all their debts and credits.

460
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Their ledger unfortunately is not an open ledger. Uh.

461
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Speaker 3: They will not open their books to you if you

462
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go and ask them.

463
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 4: Uh. And so Bitcoin where's you know, where's you know?

464
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,359
The fiat system works that way. Bitcoin op operates in

465
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a completely open and honest way.

466
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Speaker 3: Uh.

467
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Speaker 4: And so again, this is something that's desirable if you're

468
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,880
a normal actor who you know, has has reason to

469
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,480
distrust a banking system that, for instance, in the case

470
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,359
of J. P. Morgan and Jamie Diamond, uh, you know,

471
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,839
funded and knew about Epstein for years and funded and

472
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,079
allowed him to operate bank accounts with them until relatively recently.

473
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,319
So again to act like some of the things that

474
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,359
people talk about, Oh, bitcoin is only used by criminals. Uh,

475
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,400
you know, you have Elizabeth Warren who says, insane that

476
00:21:58,799 --> 00:21:59,720
the nice question.

477
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: Was now a minute though, but isn't this the the

478
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,759
currency of the drug dealers and the cartels.

479
00:22:05,839 --> 00:22:06,039
Speaker 3: You know?

480
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 4: And they make a good point because Saddam Hussein when

481
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,000
we rated his palaces, he had lots of bitcoin. Oh wait,

482
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:13,839
that was dollars, Momar Godafi. You know he also had

483
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,359
lots of bitcoin. Oh no, wait, that was golden and dollars.

484
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:19,000
So again, if this is just a laughable objection, that's

485
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,160
completely out of touch with reality. Again, and normal people

486
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,319
are waking up to how insane this is and silly

487
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,039
this is, especially when we can follow things like Nancy

488
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:30,400
Pelosi's trading activity and you know, she's exactly obviously insider

489
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,240
trading and everyone knows this and things that's hilarious that

490
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:35,160
she thinks to tries to claim moral.

491
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 3: Uh, while she's doing things like this. Yeah, all right.

492
00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:42,319
Speaker 1: So that brings me to another question. Because I hear

493
00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:44,279
a lot of objections. I'm sure you've heard all the

494
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:46,720
same objections. I tend to think that people who make

495
00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:49,680
these objections don't actually know what they're talking about, but

496
00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:51,960
they like to voice these objections because they heard a

497
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:55,000
talking head, you know, on TWOV or MSNBC say it,

498
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:57,599
so it makes them sound smart. One of the top

499
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,799
objections that you hear is well, now, wait a minute,

500
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:04,680
it's not a real tangible thing. It's just uh, you know,

501
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:08,400
in the internet sphere. It's not it's not anything physical,

502
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,640
so it's not worth anything. What would you say to that?

503
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again that that's understandable, Like I get there.

504
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,400
There's something about tangible things that that you know, seems

505
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,720
safe to us. The reality, what I would say to

506
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:20,920
them is the same thing I've said to a lot

507
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,599
of people, is that you know. For example, in the

508
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:24,720
case of our our Venezuelan brothers and sisters who are

509
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,960
living in Uruguay, many of them fled across the border

510
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,000
from your sorry, from Venezuela into Colombia on foot, and

511
00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,519
so in their case there were people waiting at the border,

512
00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:37,319
knowing that there were refugees fleeing who were ready to

513
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:40,640
rob people who had tangible goods, and so in the

514
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,880
case of them, in the case of millions of refugees

515
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,440
all over the world, the tangible asset of something like

516
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,079
gold or silver or dollars even is actually it's actually

517
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,319
a negative. It's actually something that is not desirable because

518
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:56,240
it puts that puts their valuable resources at risk. So

519
00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:58,559
something like bitcoin that allows you to memorize a twelve

520
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,000
word seed phrase and cross any in the world, get

521
00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:02,839
to where you're going, plug it into an app, and

522
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,400
you could have you know, theoretically billions of dollars at

523
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,359
your disposal is very valuable in a world where there

524
00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,599
is a decreasing amount of trust between governments and their citizens,

525
00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:13,960
central banks and their citizens, even people who have nothing

526
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:14,440
to hide.

527
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: You always tell people too, you know, a lot of

528
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,000
older you know, if you're say a baby boomer, you

529
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,880
know that sounds that thinks this sounds kind of crazy

530
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,319
or whatever.

531
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:23,599
Speaker 2: I mean.

532
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:27,039
Speaker 1: Baby boomers are already for the most part, doing banking

533
00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:29,599
on their phone with their banking app, So they're already

534
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,880
in the e sphere they're not using the physicality on

535
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,559
a day to day basis like they used to.

536
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

537
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: What would you say to somebody maybe with that kind

538
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,079
of a mindset, who thinks, well, why would I trust

539
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:43,079
all this Internet stuff?

540
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: Though?

541
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: Maybe the CIA created bitcoin or the NSA. I mean,

542
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:48,920
there's a conspiracy theory that that the NSA did this

543
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:51,559
and it's all a big scam to get us away

544
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:55,240
from you know, physicality and into this e system.

545
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, philosophically speaking, there's something called the genetic

546
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,519
fallacy that just because something originated from someone or someplace

547
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:05,359
that it's you know, that somehow stains it. The reality

548
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,200
is what matters is how does bitcoin work? And you know,

549
00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:10,920
if we knew the CIA, if we knew conclusively the

550
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,000
CIA had created bitcoin, that fundamentally wouldn't change anything about

551
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,839
how bitcoin actually works. And so you can actually verify

552
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,480
for yourself, you know, you can verify how bitcoin works.

553
00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:22,039
You can verify all of these things that we've been

554
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,759
talking about. The supply cap, what skeeps bitcoin secure against

555
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,079
nation states like China who've tried to ban it seven

556
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,559
times over the last fifteen years. Again, at least openly,

557
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,359
China is willing to do a lot more you know,

558
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119
draconian things than the United States government is. And so

559
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,839
if they've if they can't crack bitcoin, and they have

560
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,920
incentive to because bitcoin, you know, gets outside of their

561
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,680
capital controls. You know, these are things where again we

562
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:48,960
have examples for fifteen years. We have fifteen years of

563
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,960
evidence that bitcoin is what it says it is, it

564
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,759
works the way that it says it does, and there's

565
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,599
incentives for people to attack it. There's tons of incentives,

566
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:58,200
both political monetary. You know, you can name a whole

567
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,839
bunch for people to be able to attack piccoin. None

568
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,720
of them have been able to, and there's again good

569
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:03,279
reason for it.

570
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: Okay, well then there you go. That's the next objection.

571
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,359
We get a new administration, they end up being fabian

572
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,440
socialist or outright communists. They decide that this is some

573
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,680
scheme and the government bans bitcoin.

574
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,279
Speaker 2: How are you going to stop that. You can't stop

575
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:19,559
the government from banning bitcoin.

576
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question. Well again, China's banned it

577
00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:24,759
seven times in the last fifteen years. So again, I

578
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:28,319
know there's we're not always the greatest math, you know,

579
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,640
advocates or you know, we're not almost there great at math.

580
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:31,680
But you know, you can look at that and you

581
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,559
can be like, wait, why have they.

582
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,079
Speaker 3: Had to ban it? You know, seven times? It wouldn't

583
00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:36,880
once be good enough.

584
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 4: And the reality is they keep having to renig on

585
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,920
that ban because they can't enforce it. And so this

586
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,960
is something similar. Another example of this. I actually I

587
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,319
actually prayed for a situation like this to happen, and

588
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:49,119
the Lord loves us and wants us to be happy.

589
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,200
So we answered my prayer one time, which was, it

590
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,119
would be great if there's a situation where a government

591
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,559
cut off citizens from their bank accounts to demonstrate the

592
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,200
distinguish bitcoin and what you can do with it from

593
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:02,640
the existing Fiat monetary system.

594
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 3: And so then we had the Canadian.

595
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: Trucker Punadian Trucker, where.

596
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,279
Speaker 4: These guys were all declared enemies of the state, cut

597
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,799
off from their bank accounts because they didn't you know,

598
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:13,839
they objected to, you know, getting a shot in the

599
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,160
arm that you know was untested, and all kinds of

600
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,279
other things. So a lot of these guys I had

601
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,160
the privilege to interview of the spokesperson for the Canadian

602
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,680
Truckers named BJ Dictor, and he talked about the fact

603
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,599
that He's like, no, you know, a lot of us weren't,

604
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,720
you know, radical bitcoin advocates or anything. But once they

605
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,839
cut us off from our bank accounts, the only money

606
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:33,799
that we were able to receive and distribute to the

607
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:36,440
other truckers was the over nine hundred thousand dollars worth

608
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,880
of bitcoin that we were that we were you know, donated,

609
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,440
and that was distributed and custodied in such a way

610
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,799
that you know, was done physically. They actually went around

611
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:48,039
handing physical envelopes with bitcoin private keys in there that

612
00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:49,920
allowed these guys to get access to money and then

613
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:51,680
and then you know, buy whatever they needed with it.

614
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:54,720
So again, this is not a hypothetical reality that bitcoin

615
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:58,119
can withstand government, you know, oppression. This is actually tried

616
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,960
and tested by some of the biggest countries on Earth.

617
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,559
Speaker 1: Well, what if bitcoin is a way to on ramp

618
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,359
us to digital currency and then the government comes in

619
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,160
and says, get over here on the CBDC now.

620
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: That we've lured you in through bitcoin. This is a

621
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,920
new objection I'm hearing all the time. What would you

622
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,240
say to that?

623
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, So again, I think there's a there's a lot

624
00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:19,640
of there's a lot of truth in that like there's

625
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,480
again there's a lot of incentives for government to move

626
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:23,880
towards things like central bank digital currencies where they can

627
00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:26,839
put a shot clock on your money. Effectively, they can

628
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,519
basically like that happened with the COVID checks when they

629
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:31,519
gave everybody they air drop money to everyone. They could

630
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:34,000
say with a central bank digital currency, hey we're gonna

631
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:35,799
give you this money, but you have to spend it

632
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:39,559
on these things within thirty days or it disappears. And

633
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:41,680
they can also they could say, hey, that crazy guy

634
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,039
Alex Jones, you can't donate to Alex with this money.

635
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:47,720
You know, you can't give to this church or to

636
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:49,799
this nonprofit. You know, we don't we don't like them.

637
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:51,720
We don't like the fact that they're standing up to

638
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:54,160
us as a government. And so again, these are all

639
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,160
these are all things that a central bank digital currency

640
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,000
would allow you to do. Again, functionally, the reality is

641
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,680
that everyone is using digital currencies right now. The dollar

642
00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:04,960
is a digital currency, it's just not a decentralized digital currency.

643
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:07,319
And so, you know, functionally, again, there's some things that

644
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:09,599
a CBDC would allow you to do that the existing

645
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:12,640
you know, swift system won't allow you to do. And

646
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,039
so again that's why we want to have an alternative.

647
00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:17,799
And so things like bitcoin are are great alternative. Bitcoin

648
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:21,480
is a great alternative that is decentralized that you know,

649
00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:23,759
isn't controlled by one or you know, a number of

650
00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:28,400
entities or powerful entities or like foundations or boards that

651
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,839
can change the things like the supply or change the

652
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,200
rules that govern them very easily.

653
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: So again, bitcoin is very different from those things.

654
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,319
Speaker 1: That's always in the next objection, you're breathing my mind, Hey,

655
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:41,039
black rocks buying a lot of bitcoin.

656
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: Michael Saylor bought a lot of bitcoin.

657
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,279
Speaker 1: That means they can now control it and they can

658
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:46,920
dump it all and destroy it.

659
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so again this is another thing that we

660
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,160
don't have to speculate about. In twenty seventeen, there's something

661
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,880
called the block size wars. There were a number of

662
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,839
different economic actors. You had the large bitcoin mining companies.

663
00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:00,359
Speaker 3: Uh.

664
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,359
Speaker 4: These are companies who who buy these specialized computers that

665
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,680
do nothing but mind bitcoin and so very powerful. They

666
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:09,359
they create tons of bitcoin or they mine it. They

667
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,839
spend real world electricity, turn that into you know, real

668
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,559
world scarce electricity, and turn that into scarce bitcoin and

669
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,559
then sell it onto the market. They basically desired to

670
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,599
raise the block size. They wanted to be able to

671
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:26,160
include more transactions per block. This would have centralized things,

672
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,759
This would have given them a lot more power. And

673
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,799
so even though that the biggest in you know, most

674
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,440
the strongest economic actors in the space wanted that to happen,

675
00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:37,960
it would have made it very difficult for a much

676
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,200
more difficult for smaller actors, normal people to run their

677
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,039
own copy of a bitcoin node.

678
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: Uh.

679
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: And so basically you had the little guys went up

680
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,880
against the strongest, richest actors in the space, and the

681
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,480
little guys ended up winning. And so again this just

682
00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:56,160
demonstrates again the decentralization and the power of bitcoin. The

683
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000
fact that you own more bitcoin doesn't give you a

684
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:01,480
bigger stake way that some other things do. If like,

685
00:31:01,559 --> 00:31:04,000
if you're a if you're a stakeholder or a shareholder

686
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:06,200
with a company, that gives you a bigger voice. That's

687
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,319
not true of bitcoin. And we've seen it, you know,

688
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,400
carried out over time.

689
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: And you're referring to be cash and the block size

690
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:13,359
word correct.

691
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 4: Sure or yeah, yeah, any of the other the other

692
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:17,920
forks of bitcoin. Again, there were people who just maasically said, hey,

693
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,920
I have a different vision for what bitcoin is, and

694
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,440
so they chose to fork off and kind of you know,

695
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,599
deviate and go their own way. And so those things

696
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,279
are still in existence. And then beyond that, there's tons

697
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:30,160
of other cryptocurrencies. If you know what you're doing, anybody

698
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,200
can create a cryptocurrency in about fifteen minutes. So all

699
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,680
these other mean coins, and you know that we've seen

700
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,920
in the last few weeks of President Trump. They're regrettable

701
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,839
and you know, largely ponzi schemes that are gonna result

702
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,519
in lots of people, normal people who don't know what

703
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:45,880
they're doing, losing, you know, losing their shirts.

704
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,039
Speaker 1: Now I have it on good record that you just

705
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:50,240
moved one billion dollars into park Coin.

706
00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

707
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:53,799
Speaker 3: No, that is not true.

708
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: I would I would fire myself if I had done

709
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,519
that again if with with thank God for Bitcoin. So

710
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:01,880
we are a media company. We you know, publish books.

711
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,880
Again you mentioned thank God for Bitcoin, and then we

712
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,440
just published last month a book called The Gospel according

713
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,519
to Bitcoin that basically tries to help basically explain why

714
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,960
as Christians we get so you know, it's excited about

715
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,319
bitcoin for reasons that have nothing to do with becoming rich. Again,

716
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,640
it just has to do with the characteristiccepment, what it

717
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:20,480
says about the way that the world works. You know,

718
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,240
bitcoin is far more in agreement with the way that

719
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,000
God designed the real world to work than the currency is.

720
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:28,160
So so again we agree with all those things.

721
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,119
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember your question. It ran away from me.

722
00:32:31,319 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: Well, let me rephrase. I was just joking.

723
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: I've said that I think bitcoin is ethical money. Would

724
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,200
you agree with that and how would you characterize it?

725
00:32:40,079 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah?

726
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, so again I would agree it's ethical money because again,

727
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:45,400
God made a world of scarcity, like we live in

728
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:45,799
a world.

729
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: Every other part of.

730
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: Our lives, we have to acknowledge that we are not

731
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,519
God's We have to acknowledge that they're scarcity. We can

732
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:54,839
only do this or this. We can't do things at

733
00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:59,079
the same time. We have to make choices. And fiat currency,

734
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:01,400
which you know, you can take the same piece of

735
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,519
paper and put a you know, a one on it,

736
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:05,480
and this another piece of paper that's identical and put

737
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,880
a hundred on it, and all of a sudden, for

738
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,759
some reason, this one is worth one hundred times more

739
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,559
like that. That's that's basically a fiat lux you know,

740
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,599
let there be light. That kind of power is restricted

741
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:18,279
to God alone. People don't have that ability. Uh and

742
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:21,400
so again, so from that standpoint in terms of to

743
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:24,920
the effect that humans are are put here on earth

744
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,680
to as stewards of reality, where we take things that

745
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:30,200
we take the reality that God has given us and

746
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,000
we steward it for His purposes, rather than trying to

747
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,880
create our own reality and create our own whether it's

748
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,480
genders or creator, you know, our own conception of reality. Again,

749
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,759
it's much much more ethical, it's much more aligned with

750
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,319
the type of again thinking and uh, you know scarce

751
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,799
scarcity mindset that that you know, the world has flourished

752
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,160
under for thousands of years.

753
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:56,319
Speaker 1: So again and build this truth right because fiat is

754
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,039
kind of lying. It's like saying, oh, well, I have

755
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:01,920
a zillion pay notes and I have a zillion dollars,

756
00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:05,519
I don't have one million, you know dollars million points,

757
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:08,039
I don't have a zillion yet. So it's fractional reserve

758
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,800
lying really yes, exactly.

759
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 4: And it also allows it also allows governments and central

760
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,119
banks to steal There's something called the Cantion effect that

761
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,679
basically says that the you know, the when money first

762
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,559
enters the system, it basically has a higher purchasing power

763
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:25,400
for the first people who the money touches, so large,

764
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,039
people like Elon, God bless them. You know, Elon can

765
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:31,519
get basically zero percent loans, whereas somebody like me who's

766
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:33,199
looking to buy a house, I'm looking at like an

767
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,360
eight eight nine percent seven percent loan.

768
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 3: And so if the larger that you are.

769
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 4: The larger entity, the more powerful you are, the you know,

770
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,679
the better situation is for you. You can get capital at

771
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,760
a lot cheaper uh, and and again do more with that.

772
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,199
You can get access to it and buy houses and

773
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,119
buy other scarce goods in such a way that will

774
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:56,159
prevent them from from ever being able to be approachable

775
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,360
for for you know, the poor or you know, lesser uh,

776
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,400
lesser advance people. So again, there's never What I'm not

777
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,400
trying to say is that we can create this perfect,

778
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:07,079
you know, secular utopia where everybody's equal. I'm not trying

779
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,719
to say that at all. But the rules should operate

780
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,960
the same for everyone. You know, God created a world

781
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,119
where the same rules governed reality. He talks about justice

782
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:17,480
and the Old Testament that justice ought to be the same,

783
00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:19,760
whether you're rich or you're poor, whether you're powerful or

784
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,880
you're weak. And so again, fiat currency fundamentally, fundamentally basically

785
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,079
acts against that idea and and creates again gods and

786
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,800
gods and and you people who serve them, those two

787
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:32,639
classes of people.

788
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:33,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

789
00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:37,119
Speaker 1: And you know, Proverbs talks about just and unjust weights

790
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:39,639
and measures when it comes to tow currencies.

791
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,599
Speaker 2: And again that's, like you said, a form of stuff.

792
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: So now there's a chapter you guys talked about how

793
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,440
bad money corrupts the church. I'm interested in that in

794
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,719
that as we come to a closer does how does

795
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:51,519
this affect the church?

796
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: Why does it matter for a religious institution?

797
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So again, this is one of the things where God,

798
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,800
God calls, you know, calls people. He calls his people

799
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,639
to live differently uh than the rest of the world.

800
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:04,599
He calls them out and says, hey, I've put you

801
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:05,960
here for a specific purpose.

802
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:06,559
Speaker 2: Uh.

803
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: And then he gives us things that ought to govern

804
00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:10,960
how we how we see and live in the world.

805
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: So one of the things.

806
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: That it just astounds me is that you can read

807
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,239
the New read the Old Testament, and it talks all

808
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,719
about the dangers of debt. Uh, it will, it will

809
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,679
everywhere talk about how danger you know, the bar was

810
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,280
a slave to the lender. Again, it's not an outright

811
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,800
prohibition because there's situations that people find them in where

812
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,920
they need to and you know, put themselves in slavery

813
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,960
to provide for their families.

814
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 3: All this kind of stuff.

815
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 4: But then also when you get into the New Testament,

816
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,840
you find you know, the apostle Paul saying things like, oh,

817
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:36,960
no man anything.

818
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 3: He says, oh no man anything.

819
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 4: And yet when we live in a if we live

820
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,079
in a in a fiat currency world, basically money is debt.

821
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,800
Like the money that we use is debt. It's created,

822
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,800
it's issued as new debt that then gets paid back

823
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,199
over time, and so basically it it begins to subsidize

824
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,119
that type of world.

825
00:36:57,159 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: You you basically.

826
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you I appreciate it.

827
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:02,199
Speaker 2: Jordan, we have to go.

828
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: But the book is Thank God for Bitcoin, and it's

829
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,719
you can follow Jordan over on Twitter.

830
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: Thank you so much,