Speaker 1: Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you
Speaker 1: know this about me, but I'm a bit of a
Speaker 1: fun fanatic when I can. I like to work, but
Speaker 1: I like fun too.
Speaker 2: It's a thing.
Speaker 1: And now the truth is out there, I can tell
Speaker 1: you about my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino.
Speaker 1: They have hundreds of social casino style games to choose from,
Speaker 1: with new games released each week. You can play for
Speaker 1: free anytime, anywhere, and each day brings a new chance
Speaker 1: to collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun.
Speaker 1: Sign up now at chumbacasino dot com. No we're not necessary, daboid,
Speaker 1: whereby lost ee terms and conditions eighteen plus.
Speaker 3: With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 2: Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the bride and groom?
Speaker 3: Ri? Sorry we're here. We were getting lucky in the
Speaker 3: limo when we lost track of time.
Speaker 1: No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up
Speaker 1: quicker than a guess registered.
Speaker 2: In that case, I pronounce you Lucky Hys for free.
Speaker 3: At Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No
Speaker 3: purchase necessary, boid, We're prohibited by lack eighteen plus terms
Speaker 3: and conditions applag see website for.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 2: Are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers
Speaker 2: in true crime history and the authors that have written
Speaker 2: about them Geesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week
Speaker 2: another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous
Speaker 2: killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host
Speaker 2: journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 5: Good Evening. It was a brisk April morning in nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety when a woman walking her dog stopped cold in
Speaker 5: her tracks. She reeled back from something strange and disturbing,
Speaker 5: blocking the drainage tile. A human skull forensics examination showed
Speaker 5: that it was the remains of Joan Webster, the five
Speaker 5: year old Harvard graduate student whose disappearance had rattled the
Speaker 5: community and stumped investigators for the past eight and a
Speaker 5: half years. The prosecutors had a suspect, Leonard Parediso, who
Speaker 5: was tried and convicted for the murder of another local woman.
Speaker 5: The only similarity between the entangled crimes was that both
Speaker 5: victims had long, dark hair. Assistant District Attorney Tim Burke
Speaker 5: was obsessed with proving Parodiso guilty of both murders. However,
Speaker 5: between the lack of evidence and ever changing stories, the
Speaker 5: circumstances of Joan Webster's death remains a mystery to this day.
Speaker 5: Hope is not lost, as Joan's sister in law, Eve Carson,
Speaker 5: continues to fight for justice. Simple Safe and Secret divulges
Speaker 5: the diabolical details and dysfunctional system that is denied an
Speaker 5: obstructed justice in solving Joan Webster's murder case. The messy
Speaker 5: truth of the Mutch investigation and a wrongful conviction may
Speaker 5: be darker than the story of Joan's murder itself. The
Speaker 5: book that we're featuring this evening is Simple, Safe and Secret,
Speaker 5: The nineteen eighty one Murder of Joan L. Webster, with
Speaker 5: my special guest, journalist and author, Eve Carson. Welcome back
Speaker 5: to the program, and thank you very much for this interview.
Speaker 5: Eve Carson.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Dan, it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 5: It's a pleasure to have you back, and congratulations on
Speaker 5: this new book.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Let's start right away, because we alluded to so much
Speaker 5: and said so much in the introduction. Let's talk about
Speaker 5: who the Webster family is, Joan and her parents and family,
Speaker 5: and how you're connected to this family.
Speaker 4: I met the Websters in nineteen seventy seven. I was
Speaker 4: dating Joan's brother, Steve. At that time, Steve was the
Speaker 4: oldest of three children. The parents were George and Eleanor.
Speaker 4: Eleanor also went by the nickname Terry, and Steve was
Speaker 4: the oldest. Anne was the middle child, and Joan was
Speaker 4: the youngest. And I married Steve in January of nineteen
Speaker 4: eighty So I was part of the immediate family, the
Speaker 4: only non blood relative who was part of the family
Speaker 4: when all these events occurred.
Speaker 5: Now, let's talk about November twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 5: and New York City and the theatrical in the theater,
Speaker 5: Pirates of Penzance, and so who is at this performance?
Speaker 5: And how come you were not there?
Speaker 4: The night before Joan disappeared, the family, who lived in
Speaker 4: glen Ridge, New Jersey, which is fairly close to Manhattan.
Speaker 4: It's a commuter town, went to the theater, which they often did.
Speaker 4: George and Eleanor attended the theaters that evening. Anne and
Speaker 4: Joan and unfortunately a guest that Joan had invited over
Speaker 4: the Thanksgiving break was unable to attend. I was not there.
Speaker 4: Steve was not there. I was pregnant at the time,
Speaker 4: and as it happened, I actually had a miscarriage that
Speaker 4: very night that Joan disappeared.
Speaker 5: Incredible, So tell us about what happens at this performance
Speaker 5: and where they go afterwards, and how we get to
Speaker 5: Joan disappearing.
Speaker 4: After the theater. There was a pretty regular routine something
Speaker 4: I have done on numerous occasions with the Websters when
Speaker 4: we were in New York and went to the theater.
Speaker 4: They had familiar stopping spots. George had a familiar watering
Speaker 4: hole that he liked to go to. They had a
Speaker 4: piano player named Cosmos. George drank fairly heavily, and he
Speaker 4: would always stop on his way before entering the Lincoln
Speaker 4: Tunnel to go back to New Jersey. Upon returning home,
Speaker 4: they got ready for the next day. Originally, as I said,
Speaker 4: John was supposed to have a guest visiting her over
Speaker 4: that weekend. Those plans got altered. So apparently George had
Speaker 4: made plans for Joan to fly back to Boston on
Speaker 4: Saturday night, as opposed to writing back with her sister Anne,
Speaker 4: who also lived in the Boston area. So John went
Speaker 4: back early from her Thanksgiving break, which was a point
Speaker 4: that always struck me as a little bit unusual.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about George's work and also George and Eleanor's background,
Speaker 5: their work with the CIA.
Speaker 4: This is a very extraordinary family. They're very interesting. George
Speaker 4: and Eleanor both in their early years, and they actually
Speaker 4: met while working for the CIA in Washington, DC. I
Speaker 4: don't know what they did precisely, they would never discuss.
Speaker 4: It was really rather a secretive family. In the mid
Speaker 4: nineteen fifties, George left the agency and went to work
Speaker 4: for his father. Both Anne and Joan were born in Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker 4: They worked for his father really only though, for a
Speaker 4: couple of years, before moving back to the East Coast,
Speaker 4: where George went to work for ITT the telecommunications division.
Speaker 4: That particular division came under a senate hearings, the Church
Speaker 4: Senate hearings. I mean, that's going back in history quite
Speaker 4: a ways, but the Church Senate hearings actually investigated ITTs
Speaker 4: cooperation with the CIA during events that took place in
Speaker 4: Chile in the nineteen seventy. So this is a real
Speaker 4: interesting family.
Speaker 5: Now let's get back to Jones plans to come back
Speaker 5: to Boston. Tell us how things proceed and tell us
Speaker 5: a pardon me, I got derailed a little bit with
Speaker 5: George's plans with it, and t you said, you're right
Speaker 5: that it was very untypical, non typical for him to
Speaker 5: be involved in leaving the home and having to do
Speaker 5: anything involving Itt in terms of the business trip.
Speaker 4: Tell us about that George delegated and the time that
Speaker 4: I met him. He was the director of budgeting and
Speaker 4: planning for the Defense Department, the Defense Group. He was
Speaker 4: a high level manager and he delegated. Was not like
Speaker 4: him at all to interrupt his plans, certainly a holiday
Speaker 4: weekend and one where Joan had a guest that she
Speaker 4: was planning to have come visit the family. It was
Speaker 4: not like him to plan trip at all. But my
Speaker 4: recollections were corroborated. I had recalled that when we did
Speaker 4: get notified that Joan was missing, that I felt bad
Speaker 4: for eleanor because George wasn't there. My understanding was that
Speaker 4: he had made a business trip to California, and course
Speaker 4: back in those days, that would have been very a
Speaker 4: full day trip, so he had to have left over
Speaker 4: the course of that weekend. That's not public knowledge that
Speaker 4: Joan traveled over the weekend. But it is something that
Speaker 4: I was certainly aware of, and Eleanor is quoted in
Speaker 4: an article that was done that indeed George, as she said,
Speaker 4: had traveled to California.
Speaker 5: Now let's talk about right away, the witness, the classmate,
Speaker 5: the person that Caesar at the Logan airport.
Speaker 4: She saw a couple of friends at the airport. Joan
Speaker 4: traveled alone and she waved to a couple of friends
Speaker 4: that she saw from a distance. There was a classmate
Speaker 4: that had seen her talking to an individual behind a
Speaker 4: counter in the luggage are. That report actually did get
Speaker 4: reported in a Newark paper, but it was later suppressed
Speaker 4: by the head of itt Security. He kind of got
Speaker 4: involved and said, well, we don't know whether that's factual
Speaker 4: or not. That story kind of died out, and the
Speaker 4: way it was reported for all those years was that
Speaker 4: Joan waved a couple of friends, but she was really
Speaker 4: never seen. She just vanished for the airport. That was
Speaker 4: not true at all.
Speaker 5: There was a cab she went to take a cab,
Speaker 5: and so a cab driver named Fenton Moore comes into
Speaker 5: the story and he described a man he saw with Joan.
Speaker 5: Tell us what he describes what he sees.
Speaker 4: That is that was one of the last pieces of
Speaker 4: evidence I was able to recover, and that was a
Speaker 4: lead that was actually suppressed. I can verify in records
Speaker 4: that not only did the police have it, but Georgian
Speaker 4: Ellan or Webster also had that lead. In December of
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one, Joan had tapped on the window of
Speaker 4: the cab driver and asked him to take her to Cambridge.
Speaker 4: He loaded her suitcase in his trunk. He gave a
Speaker 4: very good description of Joan. Before you know, he started
Speaker 4: to move toward, you know, getting into driver to Cambridge.
Speaker 4: Joan turned and said that there was a man that
Speaker 4: was with her. The cab driver did try to load
Speaker 4: the suitcase of the man, said it was extremely heavy,
Speaker 4: and the man became argumentative. He exchanged words with the
Speaker 4: caby indicating that he did not like how the cab
Speaker 4: driver was loading his bag. The man then turned to
Speaker 4: Joan and said, we don't want to take this cab.
Speaker 4: At that point, the driver took Joan's bag out of
Speaker 4: the trunk and Joan and this man that was with
Speaker 4: her moved to another car in the line. It was
Speaker 4: a blue vehicle unidentified as a cab the things that
Speaker 4: struck me. This individual was able to give pretty good
Speaker 4: description of the individual that was with Joan. They described
Speaker 4: him as a middle aged white mail under six foot
Speaker 4: about one hundred and sixty pounds. The man had dark hair,
Speaker 4: he was wearing glasses, wire glasses. He did have a
Speaker 4: beard according to the description, and was wearing an overcoat.
Speaker 4: Those factors in that description did not match at all
Speaker 4: with the individual that authorities began to pursue beginning in
Speaker 4: January of nineteen eighty two and ultimately accused of murdering Joan,
Speaker 4: even though they never tried him.
Speaker 5: You talk about this person that comes in to be
Speaker 5: a person of interest, Leonard Parodiso. He's in court November thirtieth,
Speaker 5: near the end of nineteen eighty one. They call him
Speaker 5: Lenny the I think it's called a quahag. But anyway,
Speaker 5: he's He shuck's clams. He's really good at it and
Speaker 5: has a pushcart, and so tell us a little bit more,
Speaker 5: a little bit more about Leonard Parodiso.
Speaker 4: Leonard Parodiso was the man that the authorities and the
Speaker 4: websters ultimately accused of murdering shown He was a big man.
Speaker 4: He was over six y two over two hundred pounds,
Speaker 4: eighth grade education. He did have his run ins with
Speaker 4: the police. He had a rap sheet, so he was
Speaker 4: certainly no saint. He had been in prison for a
Speaker 4: few years on an assault charge and then was later parolled.
Speaker 4: Certainly he was vulnerable to accusations that were being made,
Speaker 4: and he was familiar to various different state police officers
Speaker 4: that then became involved in Jones's investigation. During the course
Speaker 4: of all of this, they really piled on him. They
Speaker 4: accused him of another murder that then got entangled with
Speaker 4: jones case, and several other charges. I mean, they just
Speaker 4: really went after him, one right after the other. As
Speaker 4: I went through various court records, police reports, etc. I
Speaker 4: didn't find that he was guilty of these other accusations
Speaker 4: that they were piling on him either. It really appeared
Speaker 4: that he was vulnerable, he was a patsy, and it
Speaker 4: became a smoke screen to really go after him for
Speaker 4: jones murder.
Speaker 5: Let's get to talking about the death of Marie Ayanuza
Speaker 5: Newsy and how they try to connect Leonard Parodiso to
Speaker 5: her and her murder.
Speaker 4: Marie ayan Uzi was a nineteen seventy nine murder victim,
Speaker 4: twenty one year old woman in East Boston. She and
Speaker 4: her boyfriend had attended a wedding that Leonard Parodiso and
Speaker 4: his girlfriend had also attended in August of nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 4: They were casually introduced at that time. They didn't know
Speaker 4: each other prior to that, and because of that contact,
Speaker 4: he became a suspect in Marie Ayanuzi's murder. She was
Speaker 4: murdered later that night. The evidence that was there really
Speaker 4: all implicated the boyfriend, and it was very strong, circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 4: They had her boyfriend had strangled her or attempted to
Speaker 4: strangle her a few months before she was murdered. They
Speaker 4: were known to be an abuse in an abusive relationship.
Speaker 4: He had scratches on his arms in his hands the
Speaker 4: day after Marie was found murdered. Everything really implicated the boyfriend.
Speaker 4: The boyfriend, though, had some connections. I don't know whether
Speaker 4: some of it was perhaps family connections. It was a
Speaker 4: very rough time in Boston in that era, a lot
Speaker 4: of mob a lot of mafia connections, a lot of
Speaker 4: corruption in our legal system and law enforcement, So there
Speaker 4: were some connections there. Some of the people that I
Speaker 4: had discussed this with at the time who lived in
Speaker 4: the area, felt that he had been an informant feeding
Speaker 4: one of the police officers information about, you know, drug
Speaker 4: use and drug deals on the street. The boyfriend really
Speaker 4: got off the hook. I believe that case had gone
Speaker 4: cold until Joan disappeared, and that's when Leonard Parodiso again
Speaker 4: became a suspect in Marie's case and Tim Burke, the
Speaker 4: former prosecutor, set up a grand jury. But he set
Speaker 4: up the grand jury against Leonard Paredisso for the murder
Speaker 4: of Marie I knew. He later changed that to a
Speaker 4: John Doe and claimed that he was looking for the
Speaker 4: rightful culprit in that case. None of the evidence, there
Speaker 4: was no evidence that connected Leonard Paredisso legitimately to Marie Ayanuzi,
Speaker 4: and there was even a first hand witness who had
Speaker 4: seen Leonard Pardisso in his girlfriend more than half an
Speaker 4: hour away when the States snitch said that he was
Speaker 4: with Marie and at the time of the murder.
Speaker 5: Now we have to go back and talk about the police,
Speaker 5: how they actually proceed or at least look like they're
Speaker 5: proceeding with the case of the murder of Joan Webster
Speaker 5: or the disappearance. They don't know if it's a murder,
Speaker 5: they have no body tell us how they proceed, and
Speaker 5: tell us how George Webster seems to proceed.
Speaker 4: George was very involved, but his involvements was kind of
Speaker 4: under the radar, you know. You can see it very
Speaker 4: much in documents. His influence was there the authorities. Once
Speaker 4: Leonard paredisso had been arrested for the murder of Marie Anuzzi,
Speaker 4: an officer, Sergeant Carmen Tomorrow, who was with the Massachusetts
Speaker 4: State Police, went and visited Leonard Parediso and he accused
Speaker 4: Parodiso of murdering Joan on his boat. That's the first
Speaker 4: place where the boat theory came up. It was introduced
Speaker 4: by the Massachusetts State Police before there was any suspicion
Speaker 4: or connection or any reason to believe that Parodiso had
Speaker 4: anything to do with Joean Webster's murder. The Carmen Tomorrow
Speaker 4: actually knew Leonard Parediso growing up, and they probably were
Speaker 4: a bit of you know, arrival during their teen years
Speaker 4: and whatnot. There's an incident that's been described about brawl
Speaker 4: that broke out on a high school boat, a party boat,
Speaker 4: and Carmen Tamarrow was actually one of the people that
Speaker 4: was arrested, so there was some jealousy there. I don't
Speaker 4: know full details of what their relationship was growing up
Speaker 4: over the years, but certainly there was animus at the
Speaker 4: time that Paradiso was then arrested and accused of murdering
Speaker 4: both Marie Ianuzzi and Joan.
Speaker 5: Now Burke, which is an inexperienced district attorney as you write,
Speaker 5: but we'll talk about an Andrew Palumbo, which is far
Speaker 5: more experienced law enforcement officer. But the way that Burke
Speaker 5: is trying to pressure Paradiso is through his girlfriend named
Speaker 5: Candy Wayant. And how is she involved in his business?
Speaker 5: Which is this shocking?
Speaker 4: And with this boat he was basically what I would
Speaker 4: call a shellfish peddler. During the Feasts of Saints that
Speaker 4: they have in Boston in the North End the Italian
Speaker 4: community every summer, he would have a cart and he
Speaker 4: shucked his co hogs, big clams and whatnot. Candy wasn't
Speaker 4: really involved in that, however, you know, she was the
Speaker 4: one they had dated for many years, and she was
Speaker 4: the one that had purchased the boat that he used
Speaker 4: to go out fishing. Malafemina. Whether that was a straw
Speaker 4: purchase or not, you know, I really can't say. But
Speaker 4: actually the boat was licensed in her name and titled
Speaker 4: in her name, and Massachusetts happens to be a titled state,
Speaker 4: so the boat was technically hers.
Speaker 5: You talk about some of the things that they do.
Speaker 5: This boat needs a lot of repairs, and Parodisa was struggling,
Speaker 5: so there is something that they concoct a scheme. And
Speaker 5: this is well before Joan Webster goes missing.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: One of the things that news articles that had never
Speaker 4: been sent back to me by the family were reports,
Speaker 4: early reports when this story first came out that the
Speaker 4: boat didn't exist when Joan disappeared. Since then, in digging
Speaker 4: through records and whatnot, and I do have certified court records,
Speaker 4: and I can see witness testimony from other individuals that
Speaker 4: this boat did not exist. Candy and Leonard went to
Speaker 4: his boat in July nineteen eighty one. He had it
Speaker 4: moored at Peer seven, and they stripped the boat and
Speaker 4: he pulled a couple of plugs and pulled up the
Speaker 4: john and the boat sank, and it boat sank right
Speaker 4: there where it had been moored so the boat was underwater,
Speaker 4: probably about thirty five feet before Joan ever took that flight.
Speaker 4: About four months before it took the flight. The insurance
Speaker 4: company which actually did do an investigation, they paid out
Speaker 4: the insurance money on the boat, paid it to Candy
Speaker 4: Wyant and that was paid out in September of nineteen
Speaker 4: eighty one. So again it had been investigated and it
Speaker 4: paid out prior to Jon's disappearance. So this boat never existed.
Speaker 4: The only person who indicated that Joan was murdered on
Speaker 4: this boat was a jailhouse snitch, two time convicted murderer
Speaker 4: named Robert Bond, and he wasn't an eyewitness. His testimony
Speaker 4: was really hearsay, he claimed Leonard Parodiso confessed the sings
Speaker 4: to him.
Speaker 5: The thing is is that there are various grand jury indictments.
Speaker 5: Finally that come down. Let's get to the actual trial
Speaker 5: and the testimony of a person named Dave Delaria in
Speaker 5: one of those grand jury that were convened. How is
Speaker 5: this evidence not at the trial?
Speaker 4: Explain it actually was at the trial, and then the
Speaker 4: judge was cutting certain evidence that had been admitted. David
Speaker 4: Delia had been picked up by the police. They had
Speaker 4: heard that David Doyle, Marieanuzzi's boyfriend, had been talking and
Speaker 4: confessed to this individual or indicated to this individual that
Speaker 4: Marie got what she deserved and he was the one responsible.
Speaker 4: So Tim Burke during the trial just absolutely crucified that witness.
Speaker 4: He was a drug user. They drank, so did Marie
Speaker 4: ayan Uzzi, and so did her boyfriend, David Doyle. So
Speaker 4: they were casting dispersions on testimony that was given. They,
Speaker 4: you know, Burke, even when after the eyewitness who placed
Speaker 4: Leonard Parediso half an hour away from where their snitch
Speaker 4: claimed he was. So that whole case, there were so
Speaker 4: many discrepancies with what the story was that was portrayed
Speaker 4: versus what's in the actual records. It really the records
Speaker 4: support It was most definitely a wrongful conviction. It was
Speaker 4: a sham prosecution.
Speaker 5: You say, Not only was you questioned the ethics and
Speaker 5: the just the tactics of the of Da Burke, but
Speaker 5: also the judge really helped the prosecution in this case
Speaker 5: in very controversial terms as far as you're concerned.
Speaker 4: No question, the judge back in a lobby conference was
Speaker 4: ruling out evidence. There were two witnesses friends of Marie
Speaker 4: Ianuzi's that came forward and described prior incident where David Doyle,
Speaker 4: the boyfriend, had tried to strangle Marie, and just how
Speaker 4: emotionally distraught she was, and the judge disallowed it, or
Speaker 4: Tim Burke pressured a witness and she changed her testimony.
Speaker 4: He also cut out a witness that had, according to
Speaker 4: the police report, had seen Maria Ayanuzzi back at the
Speaker 4: bar at one point thirty in the morning. Now, the
Speaker 4: times are important, and I really go into detail with
Speaker 4: times in the books so people can see that the
Speaker 4: time then doesn't jive because according to the story they
Speaker 4: were trying to promote Leonard Parediso had Rieianuzzi in his
Speaker 4: car and had murdered her at that time. But that
Speaker 4: was not the case. She actually returned to the bar.
Speaker 4: The judge cut out that testimony from going back to
Speaker 4: the jury.
Speaker 5: Now, what was the result, What was the verdict of
Speaker 5: this trial?
Speaker 4: The verdict in that trial, they found parodis So guilty
Speaker 4: of second degree murdered. They found him guilty of attempted
Speaker 4: rape even though they were trying to put rape charges
Speaker 4: on him, and he went to prison. He tried to
Speaker 4: appeal and they continue need to be shut down. When
Speaker 4: he tried for a retrial twice, that petition went to
Speaker 4: the exact same trial judge that had been presiding over
Speaker 4: the case. So he wasn't getting a fair or fresh
Speaker 4: set of eyes. And he never was able to get
Speaker 4: an appeal on that case.
Speaker 5: That appeel just kept going to the same judge who
Speaker 5: denied that there was any impropriety. Yeah, let's talk about
Speaker 5: Robert Bond and his testimony and the circumstances where George
Speaker 5: meets with Robert Bond.
Speaker 4: Interestingly, Robert Bond was a two time convicted murderer, and
Speaker 4: I will tell you that I myself have met him
Speaker 4: face to face.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: I went with a private investigator trying to ask questions
Speaker 4: and learn a little bit more. This is a very
Speaker 4: intimidating man. And or he was. He is now deceased.
Speaker 4: He was convicted on his second murder. He was going
Speaker 4: to be sent for life. He had already had one
Speaker 4: furlough where he had failed to return to prison. I mean,
Speaker 4: this guy is bad news. And his story was that
Speaker 4: he claims Parodiso confessed to him in jail that he
Speaker 4: had murdered Marie Huzzi and was giving some details that
Speaker 4: were inconsistent with the facts, and that he had murdered Joan.
Speaker 4: What he claimed was that Parodiso claimed to have taken
Speaker 4: Joan on his boat, hit her in the head with
Speaker 4: a whiskey bottle, and dumpter in Boston Harbor. None of
Speaker 4: those things are true. The boat did not exist when
Speaker 4: Joan disappeared, and Joan was found eight and a half
Speaker 4: years after she disappeared. He was found buried in a
Speaker 4: very remote area about twenty twenty five miles north of
Speaker 4: the airport in Hamilton, Massachusetts. So his statement is false.
Speaker 4: And yet for so many years, Joan had not been
Speaker 4: discovered yet, and therefore they just kept prolonging this story
Speaker 4: to the point where people presumed it to be facts.
Speaker 4: There was nothing factual about it at all. And actually,
Speaker 4: my point where I got very suspect that Leonard Parodissa
Speaker 4: was not the right PA person was when they did
Speaker 4: find Jones's remains, I thought, you know, how can that be?
Speaker 4: And when I really got into the records, I could
Speaker 4: see that they knew all along that it was not
Speaker 4: the case.
Speaker 5: Let's go back before they find jones remains and the
Speaker 5: evidence that they find with the finding of her remains
Speaker 5: and what does this Burke do again? You have to explain.
Speaker 5: We just briefly explained how he entangles these two cases
Speaker 5: and tries to put it on Leonard Parediso despite the
Speaker 5: circumstances being different. So after his conviction, he is not
Speaker 5: done with Parodiso, is he?
Speaker 4: No, not at all. He continued to pile on different
Speaker 4: cases and just continued to go after him. Mister Burke
Speaker 4: actually used the way mister Burke presents his case and
Speaker 4: he wrote a book about this as well, which is
Speaker 4: something that really spurred me to dig into Jones's case further.
Speaker 4: And he claims that, you know, Leonard Pardies so confessed
Speaker 4: both of these crimes. He claims that he had John
Speaker 4: Doe grand jury to begin with to go after Paradiso
Speaker 4: for Marie and Neusi. That is not the case. He
Speaker 4: first went after Leonard Parediso specifically, and it really was
Speaker 4: kind of a prosecutorial trick because all of the testimony
Speaker 4: in that grand jury implicated Marieanuzi's boyfriend David Doyle. Right,
Speaker 4: they didn't want you an indictment against David Doyle. They
Speaker 4: were going after Paradiso. So these cases were entangled. They
Speaker 4: used the Ayanewsi case to issue warrants to search the
Speaker 4: Wyant home, for example, and that came out under the
Speaker 4: Marie and Newsie case. But what they were looking for,
Speaker 4: what they recovered were items that they tried to tie
Speaker 4: into their story about what they claim happened to Joan
Speaker 4: vote paraphernalia and photographs. They were looking for photographs, specifically
Speaker 4: looking for photographs that looked like Joan Webster in a
Speaker 4: Marieanuzzi warrant. It was just very fraudulent. The whole thing
Speaker 4: was very deceptive, but it gave them some extra tricks
Speaker 4: before they even introduced Parodis as a suspect in Jones's case.
Speaker 4: For a full year, really kind of under the radar
Speaker 4: to try and tie things together, mister Burke pulled some
Speaker 4: really disgusting stunts. I mean, I'm not going to be
Speaker 4: a judge and whatnot, but you know, when you've got
Speaker 4: a bad actor in the system like that, and for
Speaker 4: whatever reasons he had, he really he wanted to prove
Speaker 4: that the story he was telling that he was some
Speaker 4: white knight, you know, ridding the city of menace to society,
Speaker 4: someone he calls a serial killer. I didn't find any
Speaker 4: evidence that Leonard Parodiso ever murdered anyone. As I said,
Speaker 4: he was vulnerable, he had a rap sheet, and you know,
Speaker 4: even talking with folks out in the Boston area, you know,
Speaker 4: he may have had issues with some abuse and whatnot.
Speaker 4: But I didn't find any evidence that he actually raped someone,
Speaker 4: and I didn't find any evidence that he had murdered anyone.
Speaker 4: But that was the story they were trying to portray. Therefore,
Speaker 4: they took all these different cases that they kept piling on.
Speaker 4: Tim Burke was the one who instigated a bankruptcy case
Speaker 4: that was held in the federal courts, with a centerpiece
Speaker 4: of that being the boat his alleged crime scene, and
Speaker 4: affirmation out of that case is that that didn't exist.
Speaker 4: And yet that's not what came out through the media
Speaker 4: and whatnot. He just really was able to portray his case.
Speaker 4: Jones's case actually gets very simple when you kind of
Speaker 4: tear away all of the other complications and scenarios that
Speaker 4: were thrown in on top of it. I believe it
Speaker 4: was deliberately confusing when it boils down. Mister Burke, and
Speaker 4: he has said as recently as last year he made
Speaker 4: a statement that he relied on two inmates who provided
Speaker 4: information that he relied on, and he's convinced parities so
Speaker 4: committed both murders of Marie Anuzzi and Joan Webster. And
Speaker 4: if you go to the witnesses that he used, Robert
Speaker 4: Bond being one, Robert Bond said Joan was Paredisa, took
Speaker 4: Joan to his boat, hit her in the head with
Speaker 4: a whiskey bottle, raped her, and dumped in Boston Harbor.
Speaker 4: Not true, not possible. The other witness was a man
Speaker 4: by Ralph Anthony Pisa, who was once on death row
Speaker 4: for a murder he committed. And he really gave no
Speaker 4: verifiable testimony at all. He just claimed to have had
Speaker 4: a conversation, two different conversations that couldn't be verified, claiming
Speaker 4: that Leonard Parediso had confessed both crimes to him. No
Speaker 4: way to substantiate that at all. But one thing in
Speaker 4: his testimony did stand out to me. During a pre
Speaker 4: trial hearing, Pisa claimed that he had made assurances to
Speaker 4: George Webster. That's just completely inappropriate. The hearing where he
Speaker 4: gave that testimony was for the Marie Ayaanusi case in
Speaker 4: where they did try to bring John's name into that case,
Speaker 4: and it would be so completely inappropriate for the father
Speaker 4: of another murder victim or a missing person to be
Speaker 4: having any kind of conversation with a witness like that. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: there was a lot of behind the scenes things going on,
Speaker 4: things I had no idea, was not aware of at all.
Speaker 5: Let's use this eve as an opportunity to stop for
Speaker 5: a second to hear from our sponsor, which is Best Fiends.
Speaker 5: It was a typical night, Lisa and I had some dinner,
Speaker 5: We both talked about work, and then suddenly I disappeared.
Speaker 5: But not to worry. I was just off scoring some
Speaker 5: quality time playing Best Fiends. Others may wonder about your
Speaker 5: sudden disappearances too, but I totally understand if you're having
Speaker 5: as much fun playing as I do. What I enjoy
Speaker 5: the most about Best Fiends is that I can totally
Speaker 5: lose myself in playing, getting away from my too serious occupation.
Speaker 5: I'm amazingly at level eleven seventy right now, with so
Speaker 5: many levels left to achieve, It's easy to just play
Speaker 5: a few levels anytime you have a little time to spare.
Speaker 5: It feels great to beat another level or get in
Speaker 5: the zone. Best Fiends is a free to download mobile
Speaker 5: puzzle game that has thousands of levels, new adventures and
Speaker 5: challenges every time. There are dozens of unique Fiends to
Speaker 5: collect to build a team of Fiends to fight the
Speaker 5: menacing slugs, and you'll never be stranded if you lose
Speaker 5: your Internet connection. New events and challenges come up all year.
Speaker 5: You're always able to earn exclusive in game items, characters,
Speaker 5: and rewards. Download your new favorite Getaway Best Fiends for
Speaker 5: free today on the App Store or Google Play. You'll
Speaker 5: even earn five dollars worth of in game rewards when
Speaker 5: you reach level five. That's Friends without the R Best
Speaker 5: Fiends Now, Eve, we were talking about Tony Pisa, another
Speaker 5: informant with an incredible motivation to lie and need to
Speaker 5: provide false testimony, and as you we just mentioned, consulted
Speaker 5: and was assuring George Webster very very interesting. Also tell
Speaker 5: us about this again to fit the narrative that Burke
Speaker 5: is trying to push forth. There is a three point
Speaker 5: fifty seven magnum found. Tell us why it's not such
Speaker 5: a great discovery.
Speaker 4: Oh, this was mind boggling. And I remember when this
Speaker 4: story came out originally that Tim Burke had with his
Speaker 4: divers after they had found Perdizo's boat and raised it
Speaker 4: that they found in the water what turned out to
Speaker 4: be a fake three point fifty seven magnum realistic looking
Speaker 4: that Tim Burke's diver brought up. Tim Burke didn't identify
Speaker 4: his source at that time, calling him a confidential source,
Speaker 4: but in his book that he had published, he did
Speaker 4: identify it. So I was able to do some research
Speaker 4: on that and discovered that the man he had named,
Speaker 4: John O'Connell, he had been a developer who was working
Speaker 4: at Peer seven in nineteen eighty and so a year
Speaker 4: before Joan disappeared, and he actually got in quite a
Speaker 4: bit of trouble for embezzling housing in urban development government funds.
Speaker 4: He was a crook and he got himself in trouble.
Speaker 4: He was under investigation by the fall. By October of
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one, they had taken his business records. They
Speaker 4: actually videotaped him secretly in a kind of a sting
Speaker 4: on November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty one, so four days
Speaker 4: before Joan disappeared in Jacksonville, Florida, according to Burke. Burke
Speaker 4: claims that this man had divers go into the water
Speaker 4: to recover tools at the work site while he was
Speaker 4: no longer working there, he claimed. Burke claims this happened
Speaker 4: in April of nineteen eighty two and claims that the
Speaker 4: diver found a gun and he told them to throw
Speaker 4: it back in the water. What the FBI three HO
Speaker 4: two report said that I recovered in documents of this
Speaker 4: witness that what his divers found in the water was
Speaker 4: a Mercedes And you know, on top of it, I
Speaker 4: know that there were assigned divers in the water after
Speaker 4: the boat came up, searching the waters for two full
Speaker 4: months looking for anything that might connect Parodiso or the
Speaker 4: boat to Joan and found absolutely nothing. And there was
Speaker 4: absolutely nothing on the boat that would connect them. I
Speaker 4: have all the FBI lab reports. So the whole thing
Speaker 4: was a hoax. I mean they were planting evidence, they
Speaker 4: were manufacturing evidence and just painting a picture, and of
Speaker 4: course no one had access to any information that would
Speaker 4: counter it.
Speaker 5: You talk about Burke and Palombo teaming up to continue
Speaker 5: this narrative in the press despite it seemed to be
Speaker 5: some conclusion to everything. I'll tell us a little bit about.
Speaker 4: That enterw Palombo and Tim Burke were paired to go
Speaker 4: after Parodiso in February of nineteen eighty two, so shortly
Speaker 4: after Joan had disappeared, and that took place at a
Speaker 4: meeting that the Websters actually convened at Harvard, and obviously
Speaker 4: that meeting would be about Joan. But the result of
Speaker 4: that meeting came out where they came out and then
Speaker 4: went after Parodizo for the Marie and Newsy murder, so
Speaker 4: that they could make a connection between Parodiso and Marie Neuzi.
Speaker 4: He met her at the wedding the night before she
Speaker 4: was murdered, so there was a connection that they could make.
Speaker 4: They had no connection to make, you know, connect him
Speaker 4: to Joan in any way. The two of these individuals
Speaker 4: and Plumbo was a very big man, kind of gruff looking.
Speaker 4: He was an undercover Massachusetts State Police officer Ian Carmen Tomorrow,
Speaker 4: were both assigned to the f barracks at Logan Airport.
Speaker 4: They would make comments, they perpetuated this story. They would
Speaker 4: add fodder to it, claiming that Parodiso used to hanging
Speaker 4: out with child molesters at the bus station. The bus
Speaker 4: station became a point of interest in Jones's case because
Speaker 4: that's where her luggage was found two months after she
Speaker 4: disappeared and they just I remember after Jones's remains were recovered,
Speaker 4: Palombo insisted that Parodiso was guilty of the crime. However,
Speaker 4: they never made any chart. They never charged Parodiso at all.
Speaker 4: They just made the accusations and the evidence that they
Speaker 4: kept trying to promote as being items that connected Parodisa
Speaker 4: to jan I went through each and every one of them.
Speaker 4: Every one of them is bogus. There's an explanation for
Speaker 4: what that item is, and it did not belong to John.
Speaker 4: They were not Jones things. Tim Burke actually made a
Speaker 4: claim to the FBI. This is an FBI reports. He
Speaker 4: claimed that a woman was photographed. They collected a photograph
Speaker 4: during the Wyant search under the ion Easy case, a
Speaker 4: photograph of a woman that was wearing Jones bracelet or
Speaker 4: bracelet identical to Jones. They may have had the photograph,
Speaker 4: and I believe that they did. That's how they located
Speaker 4: a woman that Parodiso had infrequently dated. But she had
Speaker 4: no jewelry of Jones, but they kept promoting these things anyway,
Speaker 4: Jones jewelry, her identifiable jewelry was never recovered.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about when Joan is actually discovered the particulars
Speaker 5: of that and then what that creates in terms of
Speaker 5: a bombshell of sorts.
Speaker 4: On April eighteenth, nineteen ninety so, eight and a half
Speaker 4: years after Joan disappeared, a woman happened to be a
Speaker 4: woman vet was walking her dogs on the lower part
Speaker 4: of her property. She actually lived on a bluff above
Speaker 4: a lake or pond in Hamilton, Massachusetts, a very remote area,
Speaker 4: and she had a lower part of the property that
Speaker 4: often flooded. She was walking with her dog and discovered
Speaker 4: something that was blocking a drainage ditch under her driveway
Speaker 4: and she approached it. Initially, she thought it was a
Speaker 4: punched in volleyball. As she got close, being a vet,
Speaker 4: she identified that it was a human skull. She contacted
Speaker 4: the police right away and they came and cordoned off
Speaker 4: the area for the next week. They did a grid
Speaker 4: search of the area and a lot of people out
Speaker 4: there are dogs and what not. Doing a grid search
Speaker 4: over an entire area, and they found miscellaneous things, animal bones,
Speaker 4: just a variety of different things, but nothing that connected
Speaker 4: to Joan or Joan's case. And at this point they
Speaker 4: didn't have an identification on her. They were just about
Speaker 4: ready to give up. There were three officers out there
Speaker 4: kind of standing in an area, and one of them
Speaker 4: reached down and reached into a log or what had
Speaker 4: become a decayed log, and pulled out a vertebrate. So
Speaker 4: they had found Jon's remains. They had found her grave.
Speaker 4: Joan was found with a two inch by four inch
Speaker 4: hole in the right side of her head. The entire
Speaker 4: right side of her head was taken out, so someone
Speaker 4: had hit her with tremendous force. She had been stripped
Speaker 4: of all clothing. None of her clothing was in that
Speaker 4: area at all, it was just skeletal remains others. Then
Speaker 4: she had a gold neck chain and common gold and
Speaker 4: semi precious stone ring that were still on the skeleton.
Speaker 4: She had been buried in a black plastic trash bag,
Speaker 4: and the police speculated that she was probably murdered elsewhere
Speaker 4: and brought to that site, and judging from the wound,
Speaker 4: the fatal blow to her skull, they would have needed
Speaker 4: to contain the blood. And this is hard, hard, it's
Speaker 4: hard to recall these things, even this many years later.
Speaker 4: There were two layers of logs that were over the gravesite,
Speaker 4: and someone had been out there a second time because
Speaker 4: the first layer of logs was decomposed, whereas the second
Speaker 4: layer was not, as it had not been there as long.
Speaker 4: The power company on a regular basis would go out
Speaker 4: there and try to thin the trees in the area.
Speaker 4: So there were lugs. There were cut logs out in
Speaker 4: that area that were readily available.
Speaker 5: Now you talk about what the patho pologists, you tago
Speaker 5: blunt force trauma on the side of her head creating
Speaker 5: this basically hole on the right side of her head.
Speaker 5: What does this revelation or what does this discovery do
Speaker 5: to Tim Burke and his whole theory about she being
Speaker 5: killed on a boat and being tossed overboard.
Speaker 4: Well, at that point they should have been very aware
Speaker 4: that Robert Bond was a false witness Number one. She
Speaker 4: was not tossed in Boston Harbor. She was found buried
Speaker 4: more than thirty miles away. The bloat of the head
Speaker 4: that's not done by a whiskey bottle. The police officer
Speaker 4: that I spoke with who was involved in the recovery,
Speaker 4: he felt it was probably a bat or a limb,
Speaker 4: could have been a tire iron. Whatever it was, it
Speaker 4: was something that someone with a great deal of strength
Speaker 4: really took her out. John would have died instantly, but
Speaker 4: he had no recollection that there was any glass remaining
Speaker 4: in what little hair was left on the skull, So
Speaker 4: they really did they did know. Those records are not
Speaker 4: records I've been able to get access to because I'm
Speaker 4: not technically next of Keen, which would be a blood
Speaker 4: family member, and George Webster would not let anyone see those.
Speaker 5: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a
Speaker 5: second for these messages.
Speaker 3: With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 2: Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the bride and groom? Sorry?
Speaker 3: Sorry, we're here.
Speaker 2: We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost
Speaker 2: track of time.
Speaker 1: No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up
Speaker 1: quicker than a guess registered in.
Speaker 2: In that case, I pronounce you lucky.
Speaker 4: Thanks for free.
Speaker 3: At Lucky landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No
Speaker 3: purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by Lot eight team plus
Speaker 3: terms and conditions applak see website for details.
Speaker 5: Now let's get back to how Tim Burke gets his justice,
Speaker 5: A little bit of justice for people in this case.
Speaker 5: What happens to Tim Burke before we talk about basically
Speaker 5: your conclusions on what you put together on who was
Speaker 5: responsible for jones murder.
Speaker 4: Tim Burke, he did gain a conviction in the Ayanusi case.
Speaker 4: I do believe it's a wrongful conviction. The documents most
Speaker 4: definitely support that, and I'm not alone in that conclusion.
Speaker 4: It certainly is worth an investigation of that case. There
Speaker 4: were several cases like that at this time in tim
Speaker 4: Burke's office at that time Suffolk County office, they were
Speaker 4: found for having secret and duplicate files. So there were
Speaker 4: many cases that were drawn into question for corrupt practices
Speaker 4: between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty eight, and of course
Speaker 4: the Ayonwzy case and Jones investigation were right in the
Speaker 4: heart of that. Tim Burke kind of continued to try
Speaker 4: and pursue the issue, wanting Robert Bond to testify in
Speaker 4: a case for Joan. Bond wouldn't do it. He actually
Speaker 4: named Tim Burke, Carmen te Merrow, and Andrew Palumbo for
Speaker 4: making promises that he relied on. So they were nigged
Speaker 4: on their promises and he wasn't going to testify again.
Speaker 4: He did get Tony Pisa out of jail, Tim Burke
Speaker 4: went and presented in front of another county in court
Speaker 4: on behalf of Ralph Anthony Pisa. As I said, this
Speaker 4: was a man who was once on death row for
Speaker 4: the murder he was involved in. Instead he walked out
Speaker 4: a freeman. Tim Burke in nineteen eighty five left the
Speaker 4: Suffolk County District Attorney's office to go into private practice.
Speaker 4: And one thing I found very interesting, and I do
Speaker 4: have a first and witness who informed me of this.
Speaker 4: He removed a carton of Joan Webster's files from the
Speaker 4: Suffolk County's office. You don't do that, and ordinarily it
Speaker 4: should have been handed down to a new prosecutor in
Speaker 4: the case to pursue it. It was still an open case.
Speaker 4: It is still an open case. Burke was handed a
Speaker 4: very plumb contract when he left for private practice to
Speaker 4: represent the Massachusetts State Police. So I found that very interesting,
Speaker 4: because yes, they certainly were involved in dirty practices.
Speaker 5: Here you write about something very interesting, a freedom of
Speaker 5: information requests regarding a believe in nineteen fifty seven CIA manual.
Speaker 5: And then we get back to George and Eleanor's training.
Speaker 5: But George's training and you say, still with itt, still
Speaker 5: the same type of person. Tell us what was involved
Speaker 5: or included in this freedom of information request and the manual.
Speaker 4: That manual is a very interesting thing to find because
Speaker 4: as you as I started to try to sort through
Speaker 4: and understand what was the really what was the model
Speaker 4: who plans of murder like this intentionally manipulate someone to
Speaker 4: another vehicle those unnoticed, really or not someone that could
Speaker 4: be identified at the time. This was very meticulous, it
Speaker 4: was very deliberate. I found the CIA manual. It was
Speaker 4: an instruction manual that was used in the agency at
Speaker 4: the time. George and Eleanor were part of the agency,
Speaker 4: and it really was a manual on how to kill someone.
Speaker 4: They taught people how to kill and I could pick
Speaker 4: out very identifiable things that followed what I could see
Speaker 4: as having happened and transpired. In Jones's case, Joan was
Speaker 4: unquestionably the target of that murder. This was not a
Speaker 4: random act. She was intentionally moved from one vehicle to another,
Speaker 4: which brings up another very important point that no one
Speaker 4: ever really picked up on. There was another person involved
Speaker 4: in this. The driver of the second car was involved.
Speaker 4: No one ever came forward that someone had been in
Speaker 4: the car with him. They got dropped off at a
Speaker 4: different place.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: This at least three people left in that vehicle, the driver,
Speaker 4: the individual who was with Joan at Logan Airport in
Speaker 4: Joan and Joan went missing for a very long time.
Speaker 4: It is very descriptive on how to kill someone using
Speaker 4: unidentifiable and available instruments as weapons, as opposed to using
Speaker 4: a gun or a knife, which you would have ballistics
Speaker 4: or you know, different things that could help identify a
Speaker 4: certain type of weapon. Hitting someone with a branch or
Speaker 4: a bat or a tire iron, those are things she
Speaker 4: could readily dispose of. They would seem innocuous unless you
Speaker 4: really knew what they were being used for. It described
Speaker 4: on where you strike someone if you're using that type
Speaker 4: of manner of death, cause of death, and that's precisely
Speaker 4: where Joan was hit. It just was very unsettling to
Speaker 4: see something that described in such really great detail how
Speaker 4: you would kill someone in the fashion that Joan was killed.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about something that we haven't mentioned, we've skipped over.
Speaker 5: When Joan was found, she had a business card inner woman,
Speaker 5: and she also had a handwritten note on that business card.
Speaker 5: Who was that business card from and what did that
Speaker 5: note contain?
Speaker 4: Do you know? Yeah, that business card really bothered me
Speaker 4: when I found that. When I first recovered FBI files,
Speaker 4: I noticed several different items that were listed in Jones wallet,
Speaker 4: and I could identify that one of the business cards
Speaker 4: was of George Webster, and I had it listed in
Speaker 4: three different items. But it wasn't until I recovered a
Speaker 4: police report several years later where I saw what that
Speaker 4: business card said. It had a handwritten note on it
Speaker 4: that said if found, call this number, and it was
Speaker 4: the number to George Webster's office. So the first hall
Speaker 4: that was placed after any evidence was found was to
Speaker 4: George Webster. Now John was twenty five. She was a
Speaker 4: very sophisticated young woman, very intelligent, Harvard graduate student. She
Speaker 4: didn't live in the same town at that time with
Speaker 4: her parents. You wouldn't have a card like that in
Speaker 4: your wallet, you really wouldn't. You might have your dad's
Speaker 4: business card, but you wouldn't have a note for someone
Speaker 4: to call his number. I don't know when that card
Speaker 4: was placed there before the fact, could have been placed
Speaker 4: there after the fact, but that was something that was
Speaker 4: very much overlooked. But it is described in a police
Speaker 4: report that was taken of the man that actually found
Speaker 4: Joan's person wallet just a few days after she disappeared.
Speaker 5: You say only four people you believe were involved in this,
Speaker 5: I guess cover up. But George is the link in
Speaker 5: terms of the only person knowing the whereabouts of his
Speaker 5: daughter that day.
Speaker 4: There are only a handful of people who really promoted
Speaker 4: this story that worked closely together. They are Timber, Andrew Palombo,
Speaker 4: Carmen Tomorrow, and George Webster. As far as who knew
Speaker 4: where Joan was going to be at that time, I
Speaker 4: spoke with Joan on that Thanksgiving Day. At that time,
Speaker 4: as far as I knew, she still had her friend
Speaker 4: coming to visit. She had no plans of going back early.
Speaker 4: Four people that would have absolutely known where she was
Speaker 4: going to be would be her parents, George and eleanor
Speaker 4: Anne who was there and Joan. George claimed that Joan
Speaker 4: had placed a call to a classmate for checking to
Speaker 4: see if they had supplies. His story was that Joan
Speaker 4: went back early to work on a project, That's why
Speaker 4: she went back early. Well, Joan had just presented her
Speaker 4: project just before leaving for Thanksgiving break, so that was
Speaker 4: not true, and the phone records don't support his story.
Speaker 4: They don't support it at all. Another thing that I
Speaker 4: found very interesting when I started to go through records,
Speaker 4: and I would pick out these little pieces and try
Speaker 4: to see how they fit into the whole puzzle of everything,
Speaker 4: and I didn't get them in any particular order. One
Speaker 4: of the first things I noticed in records that I
Speaker 4: recovered was that George and Eleanor Webster did not provide
Speaker 4: the police with a second phone number that they had
Speaker 4: that went into their house. He had a private line
Speaker 4: that upstairs, and I can remember being told that that
Speaker 4: was off limits. You don't use that phone. You know,
Speaker 4: I've often wondered, it's not anything I could ever prove,
Speaker 4: but you know, the connections that George's division had with
Speaker 4: the CIA when he was with ITT, his background with
Speaker 4: the CIA. I sometimes wondered if perhaps that was a
Speaker 4: cover job. I'll never know, you know, that's not something
Speaker 4: I will ever know. But he certainly had the mindset
Speaker 4: of the intelligence background that he had, and so did Eleanor.
Speaker 4: They were very secretive. I was. You know, I've gone
Speaker 4: through a full range of emotions reviewing information and reliving
Speaker 4: this experience, winding out just how deceptive they were with
Speaker 4: me a family member.
Speaker 5: You right in the very beginning that George had a
Speaker 5: sort of a curt statement right after I guess after
Speaker 5: it was discovered that Joan was missing. Yeah, what did
Speaker 5: he have to say? And and also the family's reaction
Speaker 5: and your reaction.
Speaker 4: The Christmas right after Jonas appeared, So not even quite
Speaker 4: a month after she disappeared, Steve and I went back
Speaker 4: to New Jersey to spend Christmas, and George came into
Speaker 4: the living room that Christmas morning and said, well, she's gone,
Speaker 4: We'll have to move on. It's a very stoic family.
Speaker 4: I certainly don't respond that way, but I don't judge
Speaker 4: people for how they respond to grief. We all respond differently,
Speaker 4: but in hindsight, you know, it is something that definitely
Speaker 4: sticks out. I never once saw George and eleanor cry,
Speaker 4: not once or in very stoic Steve cried once about
Speaker 4: a month after that, when he had been sedated toy
Speaker 4: have wisdom teeth pulled. That's the only time he ever cried.
Speaker 4: I cried. I was very emotional. I had just had
Speaker 4: a miscarriage. I was emotional, very distraught over the situation
Speaker 4: with Joan, and I do tend to show my emotions,
Speaker 4: you know, and I can reflect that again on other
Speaker 4: behaviors of the family. For example, after Joan was recovered,
Speaker 4: when they were finished with a forensic George and Eleanor
Speaker 4: had Joan cremated, which is actually against the law in
Speaker 4: the state of Massachusetts because it was an unsolved case.
Speaker 4: There could still be more jurisdiction or a judicial inquiry
Speaker 4: into the crime. But he had it cremated. And when
Speaker 4: we went back to New Jersey for the interment and
Speaker 4: didn't go, or own sister didn't go, it's just, you know,
Speaker 4: it's just very troubling. You know, they're very emotionally disconnected people,
Speaker 4: and that's very problematic because then you don't care what happens.
Speaker 5: That last statement is very interesting. There's not any religious
Speaker 5: reasons for the cremation, but also in light of the
Speaker 5: advanced DNA of the advances in DNA, that you would
Speaker 5: think that they would be advised by most people to
Speaker 5: hold off cremation in case DNA advances could help their case.
Speaker 4: It's the district attorney who would have to release the body.
Speaker 4: In course, by this time it had been moved into
Speaker 4: a third District Attorney's office. This case is handled in
Speaker 4: three different DA's offices. Essex County is the final one
Speaker 4: because that's where the county where her remains were found.
Speaker 4: And for him them to release it, you know, I
Speaker 4: that's against the law and it just is baffling to
Speaker 4: me that they would allow that. But George did indeed
Speaker 4: have her cremated. I have the date, the location, I
Speaker 4: have her does certificate. Yeah, it's the Websters, for whatever reasons,
Speaker 4: did not want people to know what truly happened to Joan,
Speaker 4: and that's a problem absolutely.
Speaker 5: I want to thank you so much Jeve Carson for
Speaker 5: coming on and talking about your latest book, Simple, Safe
Speaker 5: and Secret, the nineteen eighty one Murder of Joan L. Webster.
Speaker 5: For those that might want to take another look. Is
Speaker 5: there a website for this book? And tell us who
Speaker 5: is published this book? On your behalf.
Speaker 4: Genius Book Publishing has published this book. They've just done
Speaker 4: a wonderful job helping me really clearly tell this story
Speaker 4: to really take away a lot of the confusion and
Speaker 4: mystery surrounding this case. I do have a website also
Speaker 4: that I've put together because I want people to realize
Speaker 4: that I'm coming forward with my conclusions based on real documents,
Speaker 4: so I want people to see those real documents. The
Speaker 4: website is Justice for Joan Webster. It's kind of set
Speaker 4: up in maybe a blog type fashion would be the
Speaker 4: best way to describe it. There are different tabs, different
Speaker 4: categories that really step you through. You'll be able to
Speaker 4: see documents. I just it's a mind boggling case, but
Speaker 4: one that truly deserves attention. I mean, when authorities can
Speaker 4: do this to people, they have caused really serious harm
Speaker 4: in people's lives, including my own. To be a family
Speaker 4: member that has gone through such tragedy and realize not
Speaker 4: only didn't they care at the time to truthfully seek
Speaker 4: justice for Joan, they endangered, They left other people vulnerable,
Speaker 4: and authorities today would rather shield the misconduct then give
Speaker 4: people the piece that they deserve injustice for John.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very sad, but congratulations on bringing to light
Speaker 5: all this in crucial information about the murder of Joan L. Webster.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Eve Carson, Simple safe and secret
Speaker 5: the nineteen eighty one murder of Joan L. Webster. Thank
Speaker 5: you so much. You have a great evening.
Speaker 4: Good night, Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 5: Thank you