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No 23 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.479 purchase necessary, boid, We're prohibited by lack eighteen plus terms 24 00:00:58.520 --> 00:00:59.960 and conditions applag see website for. 25 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:08.200 You. 26 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:12.000 Are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers 27 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.040 in true crime history and the authors that have written 28 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:22.319 about them Geesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week 29 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.280 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 30 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.359 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 31 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:33.680 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 32 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:45.480 Good Evening. It was a brisk April morning in nineteen 33 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.560 ninety when a woman walking her dog stopped cold in 34 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.319 her tracks. She reeled back from something strange and disturbing, 35 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.079 blocking the drainage tile. A human skull forensics examination showed 36 00:01:57.079 --> 00:01:59.879 that it was the remains of Joan Webster, the five 37 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.159 year old Harvard graduate student whose disappearance had rattled the 38 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:06.319 community and stumped investigators for the past eight and a 39 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:10.560 half years. The prosecutors had a suspect, Leonard Parediso, who 40 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.520 was tried and convicted for the murder of another local woman. 41 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.080 The only similarity between the entangled crimes was that both 42 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:21.039 victims had long, dark hair. Assistant District Attorney Tim Burke 43 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.719 was obsessed with proving Parodiso guilty of both murders. However, 44 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.000 between the lack of evidence and ever changing stories, the 45 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:32.919 circumstances of Joan Webster's death remains a mystery to this day. 46 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.639 Hope is not lost, as Joan's sister in law, Eve Carson, 47 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:41.360 continues to fight for justice. Simple Safe and Secret divulges 48 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:45.400 the diabolical details and dysfunctional system that is denied an 49 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.520 obstructed justice in solving Joan Webster's murder case. The messy 50 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.319 truth of the Mutch investigation and a wrongful conviction may 51 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:56.759 be darker than the story of Joan's murder itself. The 52 00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:00.319 book that we're featuring this evening is Simple, Safe and Secret, 53 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.879 The nineteen eighty one Murder of Joan L. Webster, with 54 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:07.360 my special guest, journalist and author, Eve Carson. Welcome back 55 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.599 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 56 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:10.680 Eve Carson. 57 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:12.960 Thank you, Dan, it's a pleasure to be here. 58 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.360 It's a pleasure to have you back, and congratulations on 59 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:17.080 this new book. 60 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:17.680 Thank you. 61 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:21.039 Let's start right away, because we alluded to so much 62 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.879 and said so much in the introduction. Let's talk about 63 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.759 who the Webster family is, Joan and her parents and family, 64 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.280 and how you're connected to this family. 65 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:34.400 I met the Websters in nineteen seventy seven. I was 66 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.639 dating Joan's brother, Steve. At that time, Steve was the 67 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:42.759 oldest of three children. The parents were George and Eleanor. 68 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.840 Eleanor also went by the nickname Terry, and Steve was 69 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:50.319 the oldest. Anne was the middle child, and Joan was 70 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.840 the youngest. And I married Steve in January of nineteen 71 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.919 eighty So I was part of the immediate family, the 72 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.759 only non blood relative who was part of the family 73 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:01.680 when all these events occurred. 74 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.400 Now, let's talk about November twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one, 75 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.400 and New York City and the theatrical in the theater, 76 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:14.840 Pirates of Penzance, and so who is at this performance? 77 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.399 And how come you were not there? 78 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.480 The night before Joan disappeared, the family, who lived in 79 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.160 glen Ridge, New Jersey, which is fairly close to Manhattan. 80 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.839 It's a commuter town, went to the theater, which they often did. 81 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:33.800 George and Eleanor attended the theaters that evening. Anne and 82 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:38.199 Joan and unfortunately a guest that Joan had invited over 83 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.759 the Thanksgiving break was unable to attend. I was not there. 84 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:44.959 Steve was not there. I was pregnant at the time, 85 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.360 and as it happened, I actually had a miscarriage that 86 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:50.319 very night that Joan disappeared. 87 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.240 Incredible, So tell us about what happens at this performance 88 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.040 and where they go afterwards, and how we get to 89 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.480 Joan disappearing. 90 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.120 After the theater. There was a pretty regular routine something 91 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:06.439 I have done on numerous occasions with the Websters when 92 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:08.680 we were in New York and went to the theater. 93 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:13.120 They had familiar stopping spots. George had a familiar watering 94 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:15.040 hole that he liked to go to. They had a 95 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:20.879 piano player named Cosmos. George drank fairly heavily, and he 96 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:24.240 would always stop on his way before entering the Lincoln 97 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.800 Tunnel to go back to New Jersey. Upon returning home, 98 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.439 they got ready for the next day. Originally, as I said, 99 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.519 John was supposed to have a guest visiting her over 100 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:39.399 that weekend. Those plans got altered. So apparently George had 101 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:43.079 made plans for Joan to fly back to Boston on 102 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.839 Saturday night, as opposed to writing back with her sister Anne, 103 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:50.560 who also lived in the Boston area. So John went 104 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.959 back early from her Thanksgiving break, which was a point 105 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.399 that always struck me as a little bit unusual. 106 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:04.160 Let's talk about George's work and also George and Eleanor's background, 107 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.759 their work with the CIA. 108 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:11.120 This is a very extraordinary family. They're very interesting. George 109 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:15.120 and Eleanor both in their early years, and they actually 110 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:19.279 met while working for the CIA in Washington, DC. I 111 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.800 don't know what they did precisely, they would never discuss. 112 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:26.480 It was really rather a secretive family. In the mid 113 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:31.079 nineteen fifties, George left the agency and went to work 114 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:35.160 for his father. Both Anne and Joan were born in Dayton, Ohio. 115 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.399 They worked for his father really only though, for a 116 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.720 couple of years, before moving back to the East Coast, 117 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:45.920 where George went to work for ITT the telecommunications division. 118 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:51.959 That particular division came under a senate hearings, the Church 119 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:54.439 Senate hearings. I mean, that's going back in history quite 120 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.399 a ways, but the Church Senate hearings actually investigated ITTs 121 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.879 cooperation with the CIA during events that took place in 122 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.000 Chile in the nineteen seventy. So this is a real 123 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:08.000 interesting family. 124 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.120 Now let's get back to Jones plans to come back 125 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.759 to Boston. Tell us how things proceed and tell us 126 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:19.160 a pardon me, I got derailed a little bit with 127 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:22.120 George's plans with it, and t you said, you're right 128 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:25.759 that it was very untypical, non typical for him to 129 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.120 be involved in leaving the home and having to do 130 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.439 anything involving Itt in terms of the business trip. 131 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.839 Tell us about that George delegated and the time that 132 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.439 I met him. He was the director of budgeting and 133 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:44.040 planning for the Defense Department, the Defense Group. He was 134 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.199 a high level manager and he delegated. Was not like 135 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.879 him at all to interrupt his plans, certainly a holiday 136 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:55.360 weekend and one where Joan had a guest that she 137 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:58.240 was planning to have come visit the family. It was 138 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.199 not like him to plan trip at all. But my 139 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.759 recollections were corroborated. I had recalled that when we did 140 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:08.959 get notified that Joan was missing, that I felt bad 141 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:12.920 for eleanor because George wasn't there. My understanding was that 142 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.160 he had made a business trip to California, and course 143 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.399 back in those days, that would have been very a 144 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:21.199 full day trip, so he had to have left over 145 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.680 the course of that weekend. That's not public knowledge that 146 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.560 Joan traveled over the weekend. But it is something that 147 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.600 I was certainly aware of, and Eleanor is quoted in 148 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.960 an article that was done that indeed George, as she said, 149 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:36.360 had traveled to California. 150 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.840 Now let's talk about right away, the witness, the classmate, 151 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:44.399 the person that Caesar at the Logan airport. 152 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.399 She saw a couple of friends at the airport. Joan 153 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.519 traveled alone and she waved to a couple of friends 154 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.799 that she saw from a distance. There was a classmate 155 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.240 that had seen her talking to an individual behind a 156 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:02.240 counter in the luggage are. That report actually did get 157 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:05.879 reported in a Newark paper, but it was later suppressed 158 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.240 by the head of itt Security. He kind of got 159 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:12.360 involved and said, well, we don't know whether that's factual 160 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.639 or not. That story kind of died out, and the 161 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:19.000 way it was reported for all those years was that 162 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.840 Joan waved a couple of friends, but she was really 163 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:25.039 never seen. She just vanished for the airport. That was 164 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:25.840 not true at all. 165 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.399 There was a cab she went to take a cab, 166 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.679 and so a cab driver named Fenton Moore comes into 167 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:37.159 the story and he described a man he saw with Joan. 168 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.240 Tell us what he describes what he sees. 169 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.840 That is that was one of the last pieces of 170 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.480 evidence I was able to recover, and that was a 171 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.639 lead that was actually suppressed. I can verify in records 172 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.679 that not only did the police have it, but Georgian 173 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:56.799 Ellan or Webster also had that lead. In December of 174 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.320 nineteen eighty one, Joan had tapped on the window of 175 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.559 the cab driver and asked him to take her to Cambridge. 176 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:06.519 He loaded her suitcase in his trunk. He gave a 177 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.200 very good description of Joan. Before you know, he started 178 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.360 to move toward, you know, getting into driver to Cambridge. 179 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.000 Joan turned and said that there was a man that 180 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.000 was with her. The cab driver did try to load 181 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.799 the suitcase of the man, said it was extremely heavy, 182 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.919 and the man became argumentative. He exchanged words with the 183 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.360 caby indicating that he did not like how the cab 184 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.960 driver was loading his bag. The man then turned to 185 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:37.399 Joan and said, we don't want to take this cab. 186 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:40.480 At that point, the driver took Joan's bag out of 187 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:43.120 the trunk and Joan and this man that was with 188 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.559 her moved to another car in the line. It was 189 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.320 a blue vehicle unidentified as a cab the things that 190 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.039 struck me. This individual was able to give pretty good 191 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.960 description of the individual that was with Joan. They described 192 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.840 him as a middle aged white mail under six foot 193 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:05.720 about one hundred and sixty pounds. The man had dark hair, 194 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.080 he was wearing glasses, wire glasses. He did have a 195 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:13.360 beard according to the description, and was wearing an overcoat. 196 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:18.679 Those factors in that description did not match at all 197 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:23.879 with the individual that authorities began to pursue beginning in 198 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:29.159 January of nineteen eighty two and ultimately accused of murdering Joan, 199 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.240 even though they never tried him. 200 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.600 You talk about this person that comes in to be 201 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:39.080 a person of interest, Leonard Parodiso. He's in court November thirtieth, 202 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.879 near the end of nineteen eighty one. They call him 203 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:45.320 Lenny the I think it's called a quahag. But anyway, 204 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.240 he's He shuck's clams. He's really good at it and 205 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:51.879 has a pushcart, and so tell us a little bit more, 206 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:53.799 a little bit more about Leonard Parodiso. 207 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.320 Leonard Parodiso was the man that the authorities and the 208 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.559 websters ultimately accused of murdering shown He was a big man. 209 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.679 He was over six y two over two hundred pounds, 210 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:08.159 eighth grade education. He did have his run ins with 211 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.879 the police. He had a rap sheet, so he was 212 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:14.120 certainly no saint. He had been in prison for a 213 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.399 few years on an assault charge and then was later parolled. 214 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.559 Certainly he was vulnerable to accusations that were being made, 215 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.639 and he was familiar to various different state police officers 216 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.000 that then became involved in Jones's investigation. During the course 217 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:33.600 of all of this, they really piled on him. They 218 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.919 accused him of another murder that then got entangled with 219 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:40.639 jones case, and several other charges. I mean, they just 220 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.799 really went after him, one right after the other. As 221 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:48.080 I went through various court records, police reports, etc. I 222 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.840 didn't find that he was guilty of these other accusations 223 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:54.840 that they were piling on him either. It really appeared 224 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.600 that he was vulnerable, he was a patsy, and it 225 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.240 became a smoke screen to really go after him for 226 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:02.080 jones murder. 227 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.879 Let's get to talking about the death of Marie Ayanuza 228 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:13.279 Newsy and how they try to connect Leonard Parodiso to 229 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:14.480 her and her murder. 230 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:18.240 Marie ayan Uzi was a nineteen seventy nine murder victim, 231 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.879 twenty one year old woman in East Boston. She and 232 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.679 her boyfriend had attended a wedding that Leonard Parodiso and 233 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.639 his girlfriend had also attended in August of nineteen seventy nine. 234 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.840 They were casually introduced at that time. They didn't know 235 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.759 each other prior to that, and because of that contact, 236 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.120 he became a suspect in Marie Ayanuzi's murder. She was 237 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.200 murdered later that night. The evidence that was there really 238 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:49.559 all implicated the boyfriend, and it was very strong, circumstantial evidence. 239 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.480 They had her boyfriend had strangled her or attempted to 240 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:57.200 strangle her a few months before she was murdered. They 241 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.799 were known to be an abuse in an abusive relationship. 242 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.960 He had scratches on his arms in his hands the 243 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:08.559 day after Marie was found murdered. Everything really implicated the boyfriend. 244 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:12.440 The boyfriend, though, had some connections. I don't know whether 245 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.559 some of it was perhaps family connections. It was a 246 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.000 very rough time in Boston in that era, a lot 247 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.240 of mob a lot of mafia connections, a lot of 248 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:25.080 corruption in our legal system and law enforcement, So there 249 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.440 were some connections there. Some of the people that I 250 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.279 had discussed this with at the time who lived in 251 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.600 the area, felt that he had been an informant feeding 252 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.000 one of the police officers information about, you know, drug 253 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.799 use and drug deals on the street. The boyfriend really 254 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.519 got off the hook. I believe that case had gone 255 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.360 cold until Joan disappeared, and that's when Leonard Parodiso again 256 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:52.000 became a suspect in Marie's case and Tim Burke, the 257 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:55.440 former prosecutor, set up a grand jury. But he set 258 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.080 up the grand jury against Leonard Paredisso for the murder 259 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.600 of Marie I knew. He later changed that to a 260 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.440 John Doe and claimed that he was looking for the 261 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.120 rightful culprit in that case. None of the evidence, there 262 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:14.639 was no evidence that connected Leonard Paredisso legitimately to Marie Ayanuzi, 263 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:18.000 and there was even a first hand witness who had 264 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:21.320 seen Leonard Pardisso in his girlfriend more than half an 265 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:26.240 hour away when the States snitch said that he was 266 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.080 with Marie and at the time of the murder. 267 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.559 Now we have to go back and talk about the police, 268 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.919 how they actually proceed or at least look like they're 269 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.879 proceeding with the case of the murder of Joan Webster 270 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.080 or the disappearance. They don't know if it's a murder, 271 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.919 they have no body tell us how they proceed, and 272 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.039 tell us how George Webster seems to proceed. 273 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.840 George was very involved, but his involvements was kind of 274 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.159 under the radar, you know. You can see it very 275 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:58.360 much in documents. His influence was there the authorities. Once 276 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:02.559 Leonard paredisso had been arrested for the murder of Marie Anuzzi, 277 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.080 an officer, Sergeant Carmen Tomorrow, who was with the Massachusetts 278 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.919 State Police, went and visited Leonard Parediso and he accused 279 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.240 Parodiso of murdering Joan on his boat. That's the first 280 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.159 place where the boat theory came up. It was introduced 281 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:24.080 by the Massachusetts State Police before there was any suspicion 282 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.080 or connection or any reason to believe that Parodiso had 283 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.840 anything to do with Joean Webster's murder. The Carmen Tomorrow 284 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:36.600 actually knew Leonard Parediso growing up, and they probably were 285 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.840 a bit of you know, arrival during their teen years 286 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.600 and whatnot. There's an incident that's been described about brawl 287 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.120 that broke out on a high school boat, a party boat, 288 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.559 and Carmen Tamarrow was actually one of the people that 289 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.600 was arrested, so there was some jealousy there. I don't 290 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.639 know full details of what their relationship was growing up 291 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.480 over the years, but certainly there was animus at the 292 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.519 time that Paradiso was then arrested and accused of murdering 293 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.759 both Marie Ianuzzi and Joan. 294 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:12.200 Now Burke, which is an inexperienced district attorney as you write, 295 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.640 but we'll talk about an Andrew Palumbo, which is far 296 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:20.839 more experienced law enforcement officer. But the way that Burke 297 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.079 is trying to pressure Paradiso is through his girlfriend named 298 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:28.759 Candy Wayant. And how is she involved in his business? 299 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:29.920 Which is this shocking? 300 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.200 And with this boat he was basically what I would 301 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.240 call a shellfish peddler. During the Feasts of Saints that 302 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:40.079 they have in Boston in the North End the Italian 303 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.799 community every summer, he would have a cart and he 304 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.720 shucked his co hogs, big clams and whatnot. Candy wasn't 305 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.079 really involved in that, however, you know, she was the 306 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.960 one they had dated for many years, and she was 307 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:57.640 the one that had purchased the boat that he used 308 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.319 to go out fishing. Malafemina. Whether that was a straw 309 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.039 purchase or not, you know, I really can't say. But 310 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.720 actually the boat was licensed in her name and titled 311 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.240 in her name, and Massachusetts happens to be a titled state, 312 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.200 so the boat was technically hers. 313 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.400 You talk about some of the things that they do. 314 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.759 This boat needs a lot of repairs, and Parodisa was struggling, 315 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:27.480 so there is something that they concoct a scheme. And 316 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.240 this is well before Joan Webster goes missing. 317 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:31.759 That's right. 318 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:32.200 You know. 319 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.279 One of the things that news articles that had never 320 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.559 been sent back to me by the family were reports, 321 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.200 early reports when this story first came out that the 322 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:46.319 boat didn't exist when Joan disappeared. Since then, in digging 323 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.279 through records and whatnot, and I do have certified court records, 324 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:54.279 and I can see witness testimony from other individuals that 325 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.119 this boat did not exist. Candy and Leonard went to 326 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.960 his boat in July nineteen eighty one. He had it 327 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.119 moored at Peer seven, and they stripped the boat and 328 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.880 he pulled a couple of plugs and pulled up the 329 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.039 john and the boat sank, and it boat sank right 330 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.160 there where it had been moored so the boat was underwater, 331 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:18.599 probably about thirty five feet before Joan ever took that flight. 332 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.680 About four months before it took the flight. The insurance 333 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:25.680 company which actually did do an investigation, they paid out 334 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.799 the insurance money on the boat, paid it to Candy 335 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:32.799 Wyant and that was paid out in September of nineteen 336 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.599 eighty one. So again it had been investigated and it 337 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:41.119 paid out prior to Jon's disappearance. So this boat never existed. 338 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.160 The only person who indicated that Joan was murdered on 339 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.400 this boat was a jailhouse snitch, two time convicted murderer 340 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.599 named Robert Bond, and he wasn't an eyewitness. His testimony 341 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.680 was really hearsay, he claimed Leonard Parodiso confessed the sings 342 00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:58.079 to him. 343 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.960 The thing is is that there are various grand jury indictments. 344 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.519 Finally that come down. Let's get to the actual trial 345 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.079 and the testimony of a person named Dave Delaria in 346 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:15.359 one of those grand jury that were convened. How is 347 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.359 this evidence not at the trial? 348 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.759 Explain it actually was at the trial, and then the 349 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:25.839 judge was cutting certain evidence that had been admitted. David 350 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.119 Delia had been picked up by the police. They had 351 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:34.640 heard that David Doyle, Marieanuzzi's boyfriend, had been talking and 352 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.799 confessed to this individual or indicated to this individual that 353 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.000 Marie got what she deserved and he was the one responsible. 354 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:47.839 So Tim Burke during the trial just absolutely crucified that witness. 355 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.240 He was a drug user. They drank, so did Marie 356 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.480 ayan Uzzi, and so did her boyfriend, David Doyle. So 357 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:59.240 they were casting dispersions on testimony that was given. They, 358 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:04.279 you know, Burke, even when after the eyewitness who placed 359 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.839 Leonard Parediso half an hour away from where their snitch 360 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:13.440 claimed he was. So that whole case, there were so 361 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:17.960 many discrepancies with what the story was that was portrayed 362 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.960 versus what's in the actual records. It really the records 363 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.359 support It was most definitely a wrongful conviction. It was 364 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:26.559 a sham prosecution. 365 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.640 You say, Not only was you questioned the ethics and 366 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:35.440 the just the tactics of the of Da Burke, but 367 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.160 also the judge really helped the prosecution in this case 368 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.440 in very controversial terms as far as you're concerned. 369 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:46.680 No question, the judge back in a lobby conference was 370 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:50.519 ruling out evidence. There were two witnesses friends of Marie 371 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:55.599 Ianuzi's that came forward and described prior incident where David Doyle, 372 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:58.440 the boyfriend, had tried to strangle Marie, and just how 373 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:02.799 emotionally distraught she was, and the judge disallowed it, or 374 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.799 Tim Burke pressured a witness and she changed her testimony. 375 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.039 He also cut out a witness that had, according to 376 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.359 the police report, had seen Maria Ayanuzzi back at the 377 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.720 bar at one point thirty in the morning. Now, the 378 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.400 times are important, and I really go into detail with 379 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.519 times in the books so people can see that the 380 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.279 time then doesn't jive because according to the story they 381 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.440 were trying to promote Leonard Parediso had Rieianuzzi in his 382 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.359 car and had murdered her at that time. But that 383 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:35.920 was not the case. She actually returned to the bar. 384 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.359 The judge cut out that testimony from going back to 385 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:39.960 the jury. 386 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.720 Now, what was the result, What was the verdict of 387 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:43.359 this trial? 388 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.799 The verdict in that trial, they found parodis So guilty 389 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:50.640 of second degree murdered. They found him guilty of attempted 390 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.240 rape even though they were trying to put rape charges 391 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:58.119 on him, and he went to prison. He tried to 392 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.559 appeal and they continue need to be shut down. When 393 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:05.799 he tried for a retrial twice, that petition went to 394 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.680 the exact same trial judge that had been presiding over 395 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.559 the case. So he wasn't getting a fair or fresh 396 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:15.599 set of eyes. And he never was able to get 397 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:16.960 an appeal on that case. 398 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.880 That appeel just kept going to the same judge who 399 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:23.400 denied that there was any impropriety. Yeah, let's talk about 400 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:28.799 Robert Bond and his testimony and the circumstances where George 401 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.400