Speaker 1: All right, welcome everybody. We're back with my good buddy
Speaker 1: David Patrick Harry, who is now doctor David Patrick Harry.
Speaker 1: Don't you dare fail to leave out that PhD. He's
Speaker 1: got the ability to write dissertations, he can do surgeries.
Speaker 1: He's a doctor now he can do it all. Just kidding. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: doctor d Thanks brother.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. You know, it's been in a long
Speaker 2: time in the making, and I remember talking to you
Speaker 2: back in like twenty twenty one twenty two about and
Speaker 2: I changed my dissertation topic so I had to basically
Speaker 2: restart after doing all the research to start on one
Speaker 2: which is actually going to tie with today's stream because
Speaker 2: the initially I was going to do one on the
Speaker 2: history of psychedelic mysticism, which then got changed to transhumanism.
Speaker 2: So finally glad to be done with that and pretty
Speaker 2: anxious to finally get that published and have an actual
Speaker 2: physical book to sell and go along with some of
Speaker 2: my research and work. So I appreciate the congratulations and
Speaker 2: thanks for having me on to it. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I caught the debate that you guys had as
Speaker 1: your sort of panel debate with your Gnostic dude, And
Speaker 1: I was just realizing how like it seems like gnostics
Speaker 1: and cult leaders like they all kind of drift in
Speaker 1: the domain of looking more and more like Manson. They
Speaker 1: all kind of like take they do a Manson vibe
Speaker 1: and aesthetic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was convince it's that, you know, the whole
Speaker 2: Rigman role that Jesus was a mushroom, which comes out
Speaker 2: of John Marco Allegro's book. It's like the Sacred Mushrooms.
Speaker 1: When you said that, I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: about Allegro. But we'll get to that here in a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Yeah, well I'll save it from when we
Speaker 2: get to it then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well before we get to before we get to
Speaker 1: all that. So, uh, you know, you've had a pretty wild,
Speaker 1: uh exciting journey. I mean you had, you know, time
Speaker 1: that you spent overseas. You were in China for a
Speaker 1: long time. Did you get into a lot of like
Speaker 1: did you study kind of Eastern Eastern philosophy during that
Speaker 1: period in your life?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh, during my undergrad so I grew up kind
Speaker 2: of like conservative Methodist, and I remember I took a
Speaker 2: Bible course at my university during undergrad and it was
Speaker 2: by a critical scholar who wasn't Christian, and so I
Speaker 2: was introduced like the multiple multiple authorship theory of the
Speaker 2: Gospels and the syncretism between the Epic of Gilgamesh and
Speaker 2: just totally annihilated this naive methodist Christianity I grew up with.
Speaker 2: And so I took another course on intro to world
Speaker 2: religions and became really interested in Daoism, Buddhism specifically, but
Speaker 2: also also Hinduism and just Eastern mysticism generally speaking. And
Speaker 2: so I did to study abroad trips to southern China
Speaker 2: at Sunyat, sin junk Shandashue and Guangzhou, and that was
Speaker 2: really eye opening because Chinese culture is not the antiquated
Speaker 2: Confucian Dallas blend that most people think. I mean, they're
Speaker 2: very pragmatic, like capitalist oriented people, so they are not
Speaker 2: very much interested in some of that ancient history that
Speaker 2: I liked. But yeah, I spent two summers there and
Speaker 2: was really interested in the Eastern mysts. At that time.
Speaker 2: I was like getting into Alan Watts and that type
Speaker 2: of stuff and thinking that this perennial spirituality somehow led
Speaker 2: to like ultimate universal truth. So yeah, that was a
Speaker 2: go ahead, No.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I was just trying to refrain, rushed
Speaker 1: myself on. I know you spent time over there, and
Speaker 1: I remember you saying that when you came back, you know,
Speaker 1: you realized, like this wasn't really the the mysticism that
Speaker 1: I expected it to be. The Chinese people weren't really
Speaker 1: that into it that you said. They were very pragmatic
Speaker 1: and basically kind of a pretty much just capitalist for
Speaker 1: the most part, I guess, but uh, how and then
Speaker 1: you and then you kind of got more into focusing
Speaker 1: academically on writing originally on shrooms or you said you
Speaker 1: changed the original thesis. What did it change from?
Speaker 2: So? Uh that was during undergrad and I finished the
Speaker 2: capstone project was on theories of magic. So I was
Speaker 2: interested in the ways in which some of the founders
Speaker 2: of the field of religious studies began to categor categorize
Speaker 2: the difference between magic and religion and science. That was
Speaker 2: a you know, uh, Frasier and Taylor and those types
Speaker 2: of guys, those early sociologists Durkheim. And during my master's degree,
Speaker 2: which was at the University of Illinois, I was deeply
Speaker 2: embedded into the psychoonot psychedelic mysticism worldview, Terence McKinnon, Timothy Leary,
Speaker 2: Robert Anton Wilson, you know, all those same characters. And
Speaker 2: during the master's program, I worked with an early Christian
Speaker 2: scholar and focused on really gnosticism and hermeticism during the
Speaker 2: time of the kind of the first three hundred years
Speaker 2: of Christianity and looking at that cultural malu And then
Speaker 2: there was a Native American scholar doctor treat at the
Speaker 2: University of Illinois, and with him I did a research
Speaker 2: project on like psychedelic shamanism, and at that time I
Speaker 2: was completely convinced of this sort of perennial, hermetic, magical,
Speaker 2: psychedelic worldview. But that my time there, especially working with
Speaker 2: the early Christian scholar, is that he told me one
Speaker 2: time he spent like a whole year, year and a
Speaker 2: half writing an article, and I was asking him about
Speaker 2: it during office hours. He's like, yeah, I essentially write this.
Speaker 2: There's one other scholar in Europe then they study the
Speaker 2: exact same thing, and he spends all this time to
Speaker 2: write articles, and essentially it's just a handful of other
Speaker 2: academics around the world that are even engaging in that conversation.
Speaker 2: And I realized damn that your whole career is just
Speaker 2: doing research for like three or four other people to
Speaker 2: actually interpret and understand. I thought, Man, I don't want
Speaker 2: to do any historical scholarship. It seems kind of boring.
Speaker 2: And so when I applied for the PhD program, initially
Speaker 2: I got accepted to study people who are spiritual but
Speaker 2: not religious and why they appropriate certain symbols. So anybody
Speaker 2: who's familiar with the rise of the nuns inne that's
Speaker 2: not in u n Those are people that when they
Speaker 2: fill out a Pew Research Center like religious demographic in
Speaker 2: the United States, they fill out the very bottom selection,
Speaker 2: which is none of the above, and that incorporates atheists, agnostics,
Speaker 2: but mostly people who are spiritual not religious, which is
Speaker 2: like eighty five percent of that cohort. So the majority
Speaker 2: of the people who are nuns people who identify as
Speaker 2: I'm spiritual but I'm not religious. And I think it
Speaker 2: was twenty eighteen that that non category became the and
Speaker 2: they differentiate Protestant from Catholicism, but it became the like
Speaker 2: thirty eight percent, like the biggest single demographic in the
Speaker 2: Pew Research Center, And so it was a kind of
Speaker 2: a hot topic that's why I got accepted for it.
Speaker 2: And during that period I actually read this book right
Speaker 2: here of the Psychedelic Gospels, which is going to come
Speaker 2: up in our conversation. And actually doctor Jerry Brown was
Speaker 2: on my PhD committee. So the people that were on
Speaker 2: my PhD committee had to a you know, very different
Speaker 2: They weren't Orthodox Christians, they had different interpretations of stuff.
Speaker 2: But what his research did was basically show that these
Speaker 2: frescoes that arrive really from the late nine hundreds and
Speaker 2: into the very early thirteen hundreds depicted like this weird
Speaker 2: mushroom relationship with Christ and people during that time really
Speaker 2: began to argue, based on John Marco Legro and tying
Speaker 2: all this stuff, well, look, this is evidence that Christianity
Speaker 2: used magic mushrooms. And at that time I had a
Speaker 2: previous YouTube channel promoting psychedelics and so I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that's great. Well, even as a psychoanod when I read
Speaker 2: the book and then did a research paper on that topic,
Speaker 2: I came to the conclusion that this really wasn't connected
Speaker 2: with historical Christianity. I wasn't even a Christian at the time.
Speaker 2: What it was tied to was the resurgence of a
Speaker 2: gnostic heresy that came from the East and entered into
Speaker 2: southern France, the Cathars, the Albagensians, and so where they
Speaker 2: were finding a lot of this evidence, be it in
Speaker 2: Germany and France, northern Italy and even places in Turkey.
Speaker 2: There were always around these sort of gnostic heresies. So
Speaker 2: I wrote a paper not arguing that it was the
Speaker 2: historical Eucharist, but actually there were Gnostic practices, and that
Speaker 2: led to another research paper I wrote trying to look
Speaker 2: at gnostic sects like the Carpocrations and the Borbarites, who
Speaker 2: were actually engaging in explicit psychedelic and deberating use for
Speaker 2: these magical gnostic initiation purposes. So from there I thought, man,
Speaker 2: I bet because I was familiar with at least Eastern
Speaker 2: Orthodoxy having icons. I thought, man with all those icons,
Speaker 2: because when you look at some of the evidence here
Speaker 2: it is sort of iconographic if you will, Like this
Speaker 2: is in this right here is the depiction of Adam
Speaker 2: and Eve at the bottom of the Jesse tree in Hildesheim, Germany,
Speaker 2: and clearly they're pulling these little white balls off and
Speaker 2: eating them, which again was insinuated by the author and
Speaker 2: other people have looked at it at some type of
Speaker 2: psychedelic aminitemiscaria use. So I thought, man, I wonder if
Speaker 2: Eastern Orthodoxy he's gonna have all this stuff. So I
Speaker 2: took a PhD Course on the history and theology of
Speaker 2: the Orthodox Church, and that didn't and so I was
Speaker 2: ingratiated to Orthodoxy from that. Definitely didn't find any of
Speaker 2: the mushrooms I found in these cathar frescoes, but became
Speaker 2: aware of the worldview in the paradigm.
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1: Hold on, say, let me ask your question. So, just
Speaker 1: for my own interest in research, I remember encountering this idea,
Speaker 1: probably probably around twenty ten eleven twelve was the first
Speaker 1: time I heard this idea, maybe a little bit early,
Speaker 1: maybe two thousand and seven or eight, And I think
Speaker 1: it was like the early early phases of like the
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan remember when Joe Rogan started out and he
Speaker 1: was doing podcasts on his couch and and I remember
Speaker 1: them discussing this, you know, el John Lagro's book, And
Speaker 1: so first question is is a Legro the first one
Speaker 1: to pause of this theory or this other book that
Speaker 1: you're talking about and second question, are they actually looking
Speaker 1: at frescoes that actually have mushrooms or are they interpreting
Speaker 1: the frescoes to be mushrooms? And they and but they're
Speaker 1: actually you said they're fresco So how much of this,
Speaker 1: how much of is bullshit? How much of it's reels
Speaker 1: want to try to say.
Speaker 2: Sure so John marcro Alegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom of
Speaker 2: the Cross is first he worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Speaker 2: He was one of the scholars, and he was an
Speaker 2: expert in Semitic languages and Samrian and stuff like that. Well,
Speaker 2: apparently there was some type of problem he had with
Speaker 2: some of the other scholars because they weren't presenting all
Speaker 2: the translations and stuff they had found. So he wrote
Speaker 2: this book arguing, based on linguistics and etymology, that Christianity
Speaker 2: emerges from a mushroom fertility cold, that Jesus Christ was
Speaker 2: not a historical person, that the name Jesus actually came
Speaker 2: from a Samerian word for semen dripping mushroom, and that
Speaker 2: this was the sort of origins, and that because of
Speaker 2: the dogmatization of Christianity and the institutional forming of it,
Speaker 2: that they cleansed the inebriating Eucharist and made it essentially
Speaker 2: a sober symbol as opposed to what the or the
Speaker 2: early Christians or some of the ancient period that they
Speaker 2: are engaging with. So that has been totally debunked at
Speaker 2: this point. That book is only regurgitated by the psychedelic
Speaker 2: psychle Nott culture. There. I double checked today just looking
Speaker 2: at like Academia, I cannot find a single linguist, a
Speaker 2: single classicist, and these are atheist scholars, these aren't Christians
Speaker 2: or a single religious studies scholar that that still argues
Speaker 2: that John Marco Alegro's book has any validity to it.
Speaker 1: I did, and I knew he was actually eventually sort
Speaker 1: of kicked out of academia because he had some other
Speaker 1: weird theories that he tried to push beyond just the
Speaker 1: mushroom thing. But that guy that you guys had on
Speaker 1: the stream, he was saying, Christ is the the mushroom
Speaker 1: is the flesh of Christ, or Christ is the flesh
Speaker 1: of God. Is that an allegro idea?
Speaker 2: That is an allegro idea. Yeah, and that and and
Speaker 2: and it's not I mean gnostics were doing that. So
Speaker 2: we know for the fact that carp Create and the
Speaker 2: Barbarites and some of these other groups they were claiming
Speaker 2: the same thing. Now, gnosticism is kind of a dubious
Speaker 2: term because there's totally there's so many different schools in
Speaker 2: the ancient period, and they're competing with each other. So
Speaker 2: the Valentinians and the o Fights or the Barbarites, these
Speaker 2: they're not friendly per se. They're actually competing for a
Speaker 2: sort of dominance on the Gnostic interpretation. So those things
Speaker 2: were occurring. They were using aneebriating substances and claiming this
Speaker 2: was like the flesh of the gods, which is actually
Speaker 2: the title of one of McKinnon's books, The Food of
Speaker 2: the Gods, which is getting back to psilocyphin much that.
Speaker 1: One I've read. Now, when you were showing those pictures,
Speaker 1: were you saying those were like frescoes and reliefs that
Speaker 1: were Catharai reliefs that had mushrooms or they're.
Speaker 2: All in the area, yeah, where the cathars were, and
Speaker 2: so like some of the so this like this one
Speaker 2: right here, this is the famous one in Plane Crault, France.
Speaker 2: This is the depiction of Adam and Eve and it
Speaker 2: clearly looks like some type of a mushroom fresco. Now,
Speaker 2: the Plaine Krault Chapel, if you look into it, was
Speaker 2: actually created by the Knights Hospitallers, which according to at
Speaker 2: least my theory, is that many of these crusading groups,
Speaker 2: including the Knights Templars, kind of rediscovered these ancient gnostic
Speaker 2: heresies when they got to the Holy Land and they
Speaker 2: brought them back. So this like Plane Coral Chapel was
Speaker 2: built by the hospitalers and it has this really weird fresco. Now, no,
Speaker 2: it's not used anymore, but this fresco you can actually
Speaker 2: still go visit. Now, another church in France depicts like
Speaker 2: this is the entrance of Christ, like his entry into Jerusalem,
Speaker 2: and you can see all these guys holding what appeared
Speaker 2: to be these red mushrooms and like once extending one
Speaker 2: out to Christ. And then if you follow that chapel around,
Speaker 2: you'll see here is this one is the purification of
Speaker 2: Isaiah's lips, where it looks like God's handing out a
Speaker 2: sort of mushroom cap. And then if you follow the
Speaker 2: chapel around at the top, then it gets to the
Speaker 2: towers of Jerusalem and these guys look like they're cutting
Speaker 2: down mushrooms. And then at the very last depiction in
Speaker 2: the chapel is the Last Supper, and of course you
Speaker 2: see these same mushrooms then cut up and placed on
Speaker 2: the table here. So regarding how much of it is
Speaker 2: fake or how much of it is just pure interpretation,
Speaker 2: and how much is their actual evidence, I would argue
Speaker 2: for some of these churches, I mean, it's hard to
Speaker 2: come to a different conclusion. Now, some of this other stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, like the Great Canterbury Salter is used to
Speaker 2: argue like the creation of plants right here is fun guy.
Speaker 2: Now I've actually looked into that and the way that
Speaker 2: they're presented as fun guy is actually used in different iconography,
Speaker 2: and it's not trying to depict mushrooms. It's just a
Speaker 2: sort of esthetic. But the Hildesheim Chapel, as I was
Speaker 2: talking to you about this one, right here on the
Speaker 2: front doors Bishop Bernard who was head of that parish
Speaker 2: in Germany, hild his Heim, Germany, the metal doors going
Speaker 2: into the church actually have anatomically correct psilocybin mushrooms of
Speaker 2: that area in Germany. So I think some of it
Speaker 2: is legitimate that something was going on in the historical period.
Speaker 2: Of all this evidence, some of it I think is
Speaker 2: dubious interpretation, claiming, oh, that's a mushroom right there, but
Speaker 2: it's all within, you know, we can't I can't find
Speaker 2: any evidence before like the late nine hundreds, which is
Speaker 2: right around the time where these nostic groups. You know,
Speaker 2: during the Byzantine period they hated gnostics and so if
Speaker 2: you were in like say Anatolia proper, you were either
Speaker 2: forced to recant your heresy and convert or you had
Speaker 2: to get kicked out of the empire. And so tons
Speaker 2: of these nostic groups actually begin to move towards Armenia,
Speaker 2: and so you get like the tone Drachians and the Polisians,
Speaker 2: and then from there eventually they they moved to Bulgaria,
Speaker 2: where you get the Bogomills, and it's believed that the
Speaker 2: Cathars are a form of the Boga mills that moved
Speaker 2: in further into Western Europe. So the way I look
Speaker 2: at as the historical progression is, you know, around the
Speaker 2: Mediterranean area northern Africa ancient period, and then it moves
Speaker 2: eastward and then eventually, through more persecution, it moves westward
Speaker 2: and ends in south southern France, southern Germany and northern
Speaker 2: Italy that type of area. And then during the Pope
Speaker 2: Innocent the Third you have the beginning of the Inquisition
Speaker 2: and the killing of the Albergensians for these heresies, and
Speaker 2: also the leaders of the Knights Templars, which eventually then
Speaker 2: go up to Scotland where Robert the Bruce accepts all
Speaker 2: these Knights Templars and according to their own legends, they
Speaker 2: are the founders of the Scottish Freemasonry, and that they
Speaker 2: then institute these ancient gnostic rituals into Scottish Freemasonry. And
Speaker 2: that's also echoed by Albert Pike. So that's not me
Speaker 2: just making a theory. That's what these people actually claim.
Speaker 2: And I have this Book of Chemically Stone, which is
Speaker 2: by PD Newman, who is a Freemason and is claiming
Speaker 2: the exact same thing that freemakes Newery is actually based
Speaker 2: off these ancient gnostic and nebriating rituals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those that are interested in the medieval heresies,
Speaker 1: there's a really well known scholarly text by Malcolm Lambert
Speaker 1: that some years back I read, and I took a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of notes on it. If you want a
Speaker 1: full sort of three hour walk through of that. You
Speaker 1: can find that on my channel. It's called Medieval Heresies.
Speaker 1: And then we go through the Boggle Mails. We go
Speaker 1: through the history of the Cathariye all the way up
Speaker 1: to the Waldensians, and how that Gnostic trend actually ends
Speaker 1: up influencing a lot of Protestantism. But let's rewind a
Speaker 1: little bit, go back to the time of those many,
Speaker 1: many Gnostic sects that we were talking about. I remember
Speaker 1: reading some years ago Aaronaeus is against Heresies, and in
Speaker 1: the first few hundred pages he details dozens and dozens
Speaker 1: and dozens of varying Gnostic sects, all kind of competing,
Speaker 1: like you noted, and he does mention several of them,
Speaker 1: at least a few that can recall. I remember one
Speaker 1: of them is a guy named Marcus, and Marcus had
Speaker 1: his own cult, and he was a ritual magician, and
Speaker 1: he was utilizing some form of consciousness altering, inebriating substance,
Speaker 1: and Internets talks about this, and when Jamie, now we're
Speaker 1: on a journey to Las Vegas last year, on our
Speaker 1: own little esoteric journey to Vegas. We read on the
Speaker 1: way there, on the way back the Cambridge Companion to
Speaker 1: Western mysticism and esoterism. And this isn't I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to like stump you or quiz you or anything. I
Speaker 1: just want to get your take on something that I
Speaker 1: had not really seen before, which kind of seems like
Speaker 1: it would be obvious and it's right up your alley.
Speaker 1: But the person that wrote the first chapter on the
Speaker 1: Ancient Mysteries goes into great detail discussing the the Elusinian
Speaker 1: mysteries and the Greek esoteric cults maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: prior to Gnostic era, the Mythra cult, and what the
Speaker 1: conclusion that this person came to was that most likely
Speaker 1: in the Elusinian mysteries, and you might take you may
Speaker 1: have a different view. I'm not sure, but that's what
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about it. They argue. This
Speaker 1: person argues that it's a death and resurrection journey of
Speaker 1: the soul sort of ritual that goes on when you're
Speaker 1: given the Kaikion, which is a hallucinogenic drink, and then
Speaker 1: you sort of go through the demeter persephone underworld resurrection
Speaker 1: sort of rituals. And I think there's even like a
Speaker 1: crazy dance involved, just wanted to know if you if
Speaker 1: you came across anything like that, or what do you
Speaker 1: think of the kaikion.
Speaker 2: No, I actually think that there is some legitimacy to
Speaker 2: the kekion theory. And so what you're referring to, the
Speaker 2: book that founded this is called The Road to eleusis
Speaker 2: unveiling the secret of the mysteries, and so our Gordon Wawson,
Speaker 2: who will probably come up, he's famous for actually re
Speaker 2: if you want to say, rediscovering, but at least popularizing
Speaker 2: psilocybin mushrooms. In nineteen fifty seven he wrote an article
Speaker 2: in Life magazine. He did this shamanistic retreat with Maria
Speaker 2: Sabina and he wrote about it. And this was kind
Speaker 2: of the first time, at least in the modern period
Speaker 2: in the West where there's explicit discussion about these psychedelic mushrooms.
Speaker 2: He sends those mushrooms then to Albert Hoffman, who is
Speaker 2: the synthesizer of LSD in nineteen thirty eight, has his
Speaker 2: famous bicycle day April was it nineteenth? Nineteen forty three,
Speaker 2: where he accidentally consumes it and then rides his bicycle home.
Speaker 2: And then Karl A. P Ruck, who's a classicist who
Speaker 2: all of his work is trying to validate even Christianity.
Speaker 2: His thing is trying to validate the legitimacy of psychedelic
Speaker 2: use in all this ancient period. He uses his skills
Speaker 2: as a classics collar to do so. So this book
Speaker 2: argues that based on pottery that they found that the
Speaker 2: kikkion is some type of ergot fungus. So ergot is
Speaker 2: a fungus that grows on barley and ryegrain, and it's
Speaker 2: common in again across Greece and where the Alasinian mysteries
Speaker 2: took place. And as you said, it's that's where they
Speaker 2: talk about persephones. Quest it's about persephones, death and rebirth,
Speaker 2: going to Haitiites and coming back. It's believed that anybody
Speaker 2: who is a who's who in the ancient period participated
Speaker 2: in these mysteries and they were taken into some type
Speaker 2: of enclosed almost like a theater space yah they would
Speaker 2: consume the beverage, they would be revealed the mysteries, and
Speaker 2: then hours later they would leave and then they would
Speaker 2: be initiated into this ancient mystery. I actually think that
Speaker 2: there's something legitimate about about that. And ergot in ergamine,
Speaker 2: which is found in some of those potteries is a
Speaker 2: precursor to LSD. So Albert Hoffman, who synthesizes the psilocybin
Speaker 2: mushrooms from Maria sabina by way of our Gordon Wawson
Speaker 2: and discovered LSD about twenty over twenty years previously, they
Speaker 2: start synthesizing various forms of ergamine and come to the
Speaker 2: conclusion that in a lab at least they could construct
Speaker 2: an LSD like beverage through this. And so it's believed
Speaker 2: that they don't know the exact process, but somehow they
Speaker 2: would allow this ergot and they would mix it with
Speaker 2: probably wine, and then some measure that we don't exactly know,
Speaker 2: they're able to take out the toxins because there's actually
Speaker 2: quite a few toxins in the fungus, and then you
Speaker 2: could consume this beverage and get, you know, initiate inebriated
Speaker 2: through this and get initiated into the mystery. So I
Speaker 2: actually think that there's something there. Now I don't support
Speaker 2: some of the larger conclusions that these scholars have made,
Speaker 2: but I think it's the best explanation for what was
Speaker 2: going on in eleusis because it was some type of beverage,
Speaker 2: and I think that at least through some of the
Speaker 2: chemistry that they've done, that's that's probably most likely of
Speaker 2: what they actually well.
Speaker 1: Probably you're tripping balls. They take you sort of underneath
Speaker 1: the temple or something, and then it's that the book
Speaker 1: describes it as like then they bring you out. The
Speaker 1: climax of the ritual is sort of like a light
Speaker 1: comes on and then you see like the goddess you
Speaker 1: see isis or something, Yeah, or persephone. But it's funny
Speaker 1: you say that, because yeah, I just looked in the
Speaker 1: footnote of disguised paper and first footnote is R. Gordon
Speaker 1: Wasson Albert Hoffman, the very book that you cited at
Speaker 1: the bottom is right, So yeah, you're absolutely right that
Speaker 1: that's where they're pulling from. Did you a little side
Speaker 1: note did you know or did you come across anything
Speaker 1: pointing out that according to John Marx and his book
Speaker 1: on the history of mk Ultra, that it was Gordon
Speaker 1: Wasson was funded by the Macy Foundation, and then that
Speaker 1: was kind of a original sort of m k ultraca project.
Speaker 2: There are some I've looked into the R. Gordon Watson connection.
Speaker 2: He was clearly funded by some of the major moguls
Speaker 2: at the time, and of course he was working for JP. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which makes it very again, very strange that this high
Speaker 2: level banker working for JP Morgan just so got contacted
Speaker 2: and told to go to this place and meet this
Speaker 2: shamanis in Mexico and then him and his wife Valentina
Speaker 2: go and participate and then kind of make it now
Speaker 2: known to the first time in the Western world about
Speaker 2: these ancient psychedelic mysteries through through shamanic practices. I do
Speaker 2: think that there's something something behind the funding, and they
Speaker 2: traveled all over the world. I mean, his big thing
Speaker 2: was trying to solve the Soma mystery, which is one
Speaker 2: of the gods in the rig Veda, and Soma is
Speaker 2: mentioned over a hundred times. It is a god that
Speaker 2: you consume. It strengthens you, it illuminates you, it gives
Speaker 2: you courage. Again potentially a connection even back with the
Speaker 2: berserkers in Europe who took mushrooms because they felt like
Speaker 2: they were strengthened, they had courage and they could go
Speaker 2: fight in battle. But our Gordon Wawson, along with Timothy Leary,
Speaker 2: I mean Timothy Leary also made a comment that he
Speaker 2: was you know, you got to pick teams like the
Speaker 2: Yankees or the or the Dodgers, and he chose the
Speaker 2: CIA and so so there is some real interesting, potentially
Speaker 2: nefarious connections with an mk ultra. By the way, this
Speaker 2: is the interesting thing to your point. His article, our
Speaker 2: Gordon Wawson's article about Maria Sabinez in nineteen fifty seven,
Speaker 2: and we know that the mk ultra project began in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty six. So hmm, interesting little timeline there that
Speaker 2: mk Ultra begins a year before our Gordon Wawson goes
Speaker 2: to Mexico and makes all this stuff famous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Do we know if there are any other
Speaker 1: if we go further back, is there any evidence of
Speaker 1: you know, if we go back to like Babylon or Egypt,
Speaker 1: is there evidence in those ancient cultures of something like
Speaker 1: a consciousness altering initiation?
Speaker 2: Certainly their scholarship arguing for that. There's different different plants,
Speaker 2: you know, cannabis, hayoma, progomenharmla iminio, mascaria, psilocybin, mushrooms, There's
Speaker 2: all these different plants that people have speculated. I've seen
Speaker 2: multiple scholars argue that ancient Egypt was participating in some
Speaker 2: of these inebriating rituals. I would assume Babylon is noted.
Speaker 2: They're occult and magical orientation and ritualistic framework for those practices.
Speaker 2: I would absolutely imagine they were the earliest historical evidence
Speaker 2: that we have really comes out of the Indian subcontinent,
Speaker 2: as I said, through the rig Veda, and this whole
Speaker 2: Soma thing, and so soma which in Persian is known
Speaker 2: as hayoma, which hayome is also another inebriating substance. After
Speaker 2: you know, hundreds of years pass by and Soma it
Speaker 2: develops and in my estimation, my argument is it then
Speaker 2: is incorporated into these Mithraic rights. And so Mithra is
Speaker 2: not a huge he's in the rig Veda, but he's
Speaker 2: not a huge figure. And we really don't get these
Speaker 2: devotional cults until later. But Haoma wine drinking, like these
Speaker 2: these inebriating wine beverages, we know that that was being
Speaker 2: taken place during these Mythraic rituals. I've looked at evidence
Speaker 2: from some scholars arguing that also orgiastic activity, which is
Speaker 2: typically associated with like collective groups anebriating experiences, they participate
Speaker 2: and this was true for the Manicheans. So we have
Speaker 2: descriptions from China that the Manicheans went all the way
Speaker 2: to China and they said they're constantly consuming mushrooms, they're debatrous,
Speaker 2: filthy people, they don't shower enough, and that they participate
Speaker 2: in these weird sexual practices. This is according to Chinese sources.
Speaker 1: So there was Chinese. There was hippies back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Chinese where yeah, they're like these Manichaeans are.
Speaker 1: Filthy, Manichey and Hippi trying to get the ancient Chinese
Speaker 1: to go to Grateful Dead concerts.
Speaker 2: Pretty much pretty much. And so there's an article that
Speaker 2: I found, and this is the is the only scholar
Speaker 2: that I've seen make this connection. His name's Robert Bedrosian.
Speaker 2: He's an Armenian scholar, and he actually has a paper
Speaker 2: where he argues that Armenia is the key to solving
Speaker 2: the Soma mystery. And I have not seen anybody but him,
Speaker 2: and I haven't even seen other scholars pick up this article.
Speaker 2: But he argues that Armenia, being in that Caucus region
Speaker 2: before it converted to Christianity, was actually the mountains in
Speaker 2: Armenia were a fertile place for growing these amineomuscarita, these
Speaker 2: red and white mushrooms that could be used ritualistically. He
Speaker 2: claims that the mithraic rituals and some of the ancient mythology,
Speaker 2: the pre Christian pagan mythology of Armenia was deeply embedded
Speaker 2: within these psychedelic cults, these mythic these mythraic cults and rituals,
Speaker 2: and he claims he's got evidence, and he writes about
Speaker 2: this in his article that the Persian elite, the Zoroastrians,
Speaker 2: were actually purchasing massive amounts of these mushrooms from Armenia
Speaker 2: to have for these ritualistic purposes, and that you know,
Speaker 2: some of the elites of the Zoroastrian Persian society would
Speaker 2: could consume these in a ritualistic manner every year, and
Speaker 2: that they were purchasing these from Armenia. And then he
Speaker 2: claims in his article that he's found the continuation of
Speaker 2: the preservation of these mushrooms all the way up to
Speaker 2: towards the end of the twentieth century in Armenia. We
Speaker 2: already just mentioned that Armenia is an interesting place because
Speaker 2: that becomes a hotbed for some of these gnostic heresies
Speaker 2: during the Byzantine period because the Buzinest teams weren't having it,
Speaker 2: so you either had a converter you're getting kicked out.
Speaker 2: And a lot of them went there. And it's that
Speaker 2: cultural malu that then goes and infuses it within the
Speaker 2: Bogomils in Bulgaria. So I think there's actually something really
Speaker 2: there that Armenia is the sort of historical key that
Speaker 2: unlocks the Soma mystery that so many people have been
Speaker 2: trying to say what it is. Terence McKinnon believed it
Speaker 2: was like the psilocybin mushrooms. Our Gordon Watson argued that
Speaker 2: it was the aminy to mascaria mushroom. Others have argued
Speaker 2: it's actually cannabis. Others argue it's pugamen harmla or hayoma.
Speaker 2: So we really don't know what it is. But according
Speaker 2: to Robert Bedrosian, he he claims that it is psilocybin
Speaker 2: eminy myscari mushrooms and that when the Mithraic cult was
Speaker 2: at its height in Armenia, that this infused their culture
Speaker 2: and that they were actually providing these mushrooms and these
Speaker 2: rituals for the Persian elite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing, just a little bit of a shift
Speaker 1: of focus I noticed as I read through this text
Speaker 1: from the Cambridge Companion on all the esotery stuff, whether
Speaker 1: it's the ancient inebriating ritual cults, or whether it's the Gnostics,
Speaker 1: or whether it's even Greek philosophy at times. And then
Speaker 1: if you fast forward all the way up to modern
Speaker 1: resicrution mysteries, or if you go all the way up
Speaker 1: into Gerjeff and Blovatsky, there was a commonality in this
Speaker 1: book that I didn't expect, which was that the tendency
Speaker 1: in Western Hermeticism, even the Middle Ages, with some of
Speaker 1: the weirdos like Jacob Boem and Gertrude the Great, some
Speaker 1: of these so called mystics in the Historyonic, crazy Roman
Speaker 1: Catholic sphere, they end up in the same revelation, which
Speaker 1: is that the meaning and the answer of all the
Speaker 1: mysteries is you are your own God.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 1: And I'm not joking. That's like common throughout this book.
Speaker 1: It wasn't something I don't think that the author's planned.
Speaker 1: I just think that as they worked through these different traditions,
Speaker 1: there's this underlying tendency to basically come to the revelation
Speaker 1: that you're your own God. You determine your own reality.
Speaker 1: Even when we get into krawl, Young Kraljung just basically
Speaker 1: thinks as a gnostic sort of platonic figure, projecting your
Speaker 1: subconscious is projecting your external reality. You're creating your own reality.
Speaker 1: Is that a feature that you see as well? Did
Speaker 1: you come across this kind of stuff and does that
Speaker 1: maybe lead us into the transhumanist side of things?
Speaker 2: I would certainly say what you picked up on that
Speaker 2: thread is absolutely the case. After the ancient period, I
Speaker 2: would argue, at least from my reading of some of
Speaker 2: the Ancients, I mean even some of these gnostic groups,
Speaker 2: they were on a path of deification. From their perspective,
Speaker 2: I think they would be submissive to say that they're
Speaker 2: not God or equate themselves in nature to God. But
Speaker 2: especially after the Renaissance, so much of everything that you
Speaker 2: mentioned once we get Renaissance humanism and the Zohar, the
Speaker 2: capitalistic text of Judaism that gets written in the thirteenth
Speaker 2: century in Spain, and that's during the me A Caliphate
Speaker 2: where they allowed the Jewish mystics, the Cabalistic mystics, the Sufis,
Speaker 2: and then these Christian mystics to actually form what I
Speaker 2: would argue becomes the Zohar, and that's where you get
Speaker 2: Giovanni Piccadella Marendola and what they call Christian Kabbalah, and
Speaker 2: it sort of re reinterprets man and his relationship to God,
Speaker 2: and that then becomes I would say, the foundation for
Speaker 2: the Rosicrucians vice shop in the Illuminati, eventually the speculative
Speaker 2: freemasonry that emerges. So the worship of oneself, I think,
Speaker 2: is tied with this sort of general tendency as we
Speaker 2: move closer to modernity and especially post the Enlightenment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's exactly. Every single psychedelic teacher or author that I've
Speaker 2: read believes that you're on a process to realize of
Speaker 2: your unity with collective consciousness or collective divinity, something abstract
Speaker 2: like that. That's the case with everyone that I've come across.
Speaker 2: So I would say that's sort of this residue of
Speaker 2: Renaissance humanism mixing, mixing with the Hermeticism and the Cabbalism
Speaker 2: and all these occult theories that emerge. So you got Paracelsus,
Speaker 2: you know, he was this very famous alchemist. He's the
Speaker 2: inventor of Laudanum, and so getting high on opium was
Speaker 2: part of his part of his magical process. We know
Speaker 2: Henry Cornelius Agrippa, like a lot of these major magicians.
Speaker 1: I've got up empress also that are on the shelf.
Speaker 1: I was gonna get those out. But what would you say,
Speaker 1: sort of the the the underlying feature of the Renaissance
Speaker 1: era magicians in Italy and other places in Europe, and
Speaker 1: then the rise of Rosicritianism is this focus inward towards
Speaker 1: a man himself. Is that what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's tied with a millinery and expectation. I
Speaker 2: think Yakima Fiore's dispensational tripartite understanding of history. I mean
Speaker 2: that's going to connect with actually my research on transhumanism.
Speaker 2: But that millenarian ethos that somehow were like moving towards
Speaker 2: collective utopia. I mean, that's what the ro Secrutions were.
Speaker 2: And you can't fully understand that Malu without understanding the
Speaker 2: impact of the Protestant Reformation and that these Protestants in
Speaker 2: the North were seeking some sort of legitimacy against the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church. And that's why I always say the sixteenth
Speaker 2: century is like one of the most magical centuries in
Speaker 2: European history. And it's during this period where you get
Speaker 2: these rosicrution confessios and the Vishop and the Illuminati, John
Speaker 2: d all these different figures, Paracelsus, Grippa, all these different
Speaker 2: people are during the sixteenth century, and so Protestantism when
Speaker 2: you look at somebody like Frederick the elector Palatine, he
Speaker 2: was trying to incorporate cabalistic hermeticism and the re secrution
Speaker 2: ethos with a form of Protestantism. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: what is ended at the first Battle of the Thirty
Speaker 2: Years War when he's defeated at the Battle of White Mountain.
Speaker 2: So that whole Ethos was tied with like this Protestant Christianity,
Speaker 2: which is less sacramental, combining with like the sacramentality of
Speaker 2: ritualistic magic. We're going to create this brotherhood, this utopian king.
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of the early first generation Rosicrucians were Lutherans,
Speaker 1: and they were in the spheres of the Lutheran Church.
Speaker 1: I think Johann Andre who is believed to be one
Speaker 1: of the compilers of the you know, Rosicrucian Manifesto or
Speaker 1: whatever was a famous Lutheran. Other famous Lutherans were also
Speaker 1: in that sphere. Sometimes people sort of make the assumption
Speaker 1: that Luther's Cross, you know, the famous Luther Rose, just
Speaker 1: happens to also be a Rosicritian, simple right. I don't
Speaker 1: know that Luther himself was into Rosism. I think you
Speaker 1: predated that a little bit. However, there is evidence that
Speaker 1: Luther was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which is another
Speaker 1: one of these mystical texts that tends to focus on
Speaker 1: sort of what you get in some of these medieval Latin,
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic mystical texts is basically, the union with God
Speaker 1: is so intense, and it's almost because of absolute divine
Speaker 1: simplicity and other kind of weird esoteric ideas well. If
Speaker 1: I become one with God truly, then I am God.
Speaker 1: And so in other words, because there's no essence interdistinction,
Speaker 1: there's an uncreated grace. They don't maintain the creator creature distinction.
Speaker 1: Absolute divine simplicity if you don't believe in creative grace,
Speaker 1: requires that you become the essence of God. So you
Speaker 1: become God. And you actually see that in the chapter
Speaker 1: in this text, for example, on Jacob Boheme and on
Speaker 1: Gertrude Bell, both of whom tended to say that basically,
Speaker 1: in the mystical Union, you actually become God. So they're
Speaker 1: they're throwing out sort of you know, needed theological nuances
Speaker 1: here and basically just sort of falling into a kind
Speaker 1: of apotheosis, which I know you've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: on your channel and probably in your thesis, where man
Speaker 1: just becomes his own God, not by grace but by
Speaker 1: his own will, knowledge, gnosis, tech, etc. All these are
Speaker 1: different pathways to become your own God. One book, I
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you've got a chance to look at
Speaker 1: or ever heard about what's Michael Hoffman has a book
Speaker 1: called a Cult Renaissance Church of Rome. Have you heard
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 2: I have not.
Speaker 1: It's really good. It's right up your alley. I mean,
Speaker 1: even though Hoffman ended up, I think he's still a
Speaker 1: trad cat or something. But as Orthodox we would actually
Speaker 1: pretty much agree with his critique of the Renaissance era
Speaker 1: papacy because he's basically just arguing that as a trad cat,
Speaker 1: he's trying to make sense of Rome and what happened,
Speaker 1: and he basically ends up reading all the way back
Speaker 1: into the Renaissance papacy and saying here's where things take
Speaker 1: a noticeable change. Even though Hoffmann doesn't know a whole
Speaker 1: lot about the first thousand years of Christianity, he's accurate,
Speaker 1: I think in pinpointing the turn towards the esoteric in
Speaker 1: the Medici Renaissance era papacy, which is definitely what happened,
Speaker 1: and hence why they promoted and love they love the
Speaker 1: idea of magic, Christian cabalah, etcetera. That was all super
Speaker 1: popular at that time, and I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the influence and trek of Western civilization, at least Europe
Speaker 1: in the second millennium, the papal Europe.
Speaker 2: Right, And to your point about this the absolute divine
Speaker 2: simplicity being a type of presuppositional framework for this form
Speaker 2: of mysticism. It, I mean, all of this magical stuff
Speaker 2: is tied with neoplatonism, and so this privileging of monism
Speaker 2: is essential. And then once you incorporate inebriating substances, now
Speaker 2: people can go from a rational articulation of neo platonic
Speaker 2: values and monism to in a phenomenological experiential union with
Speaker 2: like divinity or something. And I think though both those
Speaker 2: together are a huge catalyst. I mean, Terrence McKinnon is
Speaker 2: famous for saying, you know, psychedelics dissolved boundaries. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: would agree with him. That's exactly what they do. That's
Speaker 2: not necessarily a great thing for him. This is how
Speaker 2: we dissolve the the you know, the deleterious framework of history,
Speaker 2: so we can return back to the archaic goddess. Uh
Speaker 2: and I we can talk about the archaic revival. I
Speaker 2: think actually, given the trends in culture with the LGBTQ
Speaker 2: and and the whole Skittles community and what they're doing,
Speaker 2: it kind of does feel like we're returning back to
Speaker 2: a pre Christian period and that you know, Marshall mccluban's
Speaker 2: theories about the the you know, the global village and
Speaker 2: how digital technology was going to actually take us from
Speaker 2: the literate man back to a primitive style culture. It's like, Wow,
Speaker 2: I think there's some validity there because it feels like
Speaker 2: that's where we're going, is that people are becoming less literate,
Speaker 2: more impulsive, and since becoming more iconic.
Speaker 1: To savages people on the savages.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think all those things are working together.
Speaker 1: So here's a question. I have something I've wondered about.
Speaker 1: I had several brad classes where we talked about Elizabethan
Speaker 1: Renaissance era alchemy. We focus on you know, John Don,
Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, Edmund Spencer, a lot of these you know,
Speaker 1: Shakespearean era writers and poets, and a lot of them
Speaker 1: were obsessed with Esotero's and a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know that. But what I've never really heard about. We
Speaker 1: know about this possibility of maybe something going on in
Speaker 1: terms of the Renaissance Middle Ages era with Templars and
Speaker 1: Pico della Mirandola and these characters, and maybe they experienced
Speaker 1: something to do with shrooms and drugs. Is there any
Speaker 1: evidence after this period? We don't hear about drugs or
Speaker 1: substances for so many centuries until more recently. So I'm
Speaker 1: just curious, like, do we have evidence of like experimentation
Speaker 1: in British Empire. I mean, we know about opium being
Speaker 1: you know, used as war against you know, China, and
Speaker 1: British Empire uses opium war to syops and whatnot. What
Speaker 1: about are any of these is Elzabethan poets experimenting? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what during the Elizabethian era, Opium was certainly
Speaker 2: one that was going around and potentially cannabis and hashish.
Speaker 2: We know for a fact, multiple scholars have documented that
Speaker 2: hashish used for quote unquote mystical purposes was already present
Speaker 2: in Spain by the thirteenth century, by the time the
Speaker 2: Zohar was written, and that all these practices, all these
Speaker 2: practices actually moved from Syria, Egypt, across northern Africa and
Speaker 2: then entered into Spain. So we know for a fact
Speaker 2: that before the re conquista of Spain people were using
Speaker 2: hashish and ritualistic practices due to Islamic Sufis. Actually either
Speaker 2: is this.
Speaker 1: From the Hashimites, the Hashashen the assassins.
Speaker 2: It's tied with that, and obviously it's people question whether
Speaker 2: the Nazari Ismaili's were they really high on hashish when
Speaker 2: they committed these assassinations. It's a debated topic. But what
Speaker 2: is a fact is that cultural that the culture Malu
Speaker 2: that the Hashashins come from were actually using these practices,
Speaker 2: and that you can literally trace the Sufi use of
Speaker 2: hashish and then certain communities actually saying okay, no more
Speaker 2: of that, and then it just continues to move eventually
Speaker 2: across northern Africa, where in Morocco we have cases in
Speaker 2: the twelfth century where we people go and are saying, yeah,
Speaker 2: the Muslims are literally consuming hashish before they enter in
Speaker 2: the mosque and getting high and then going to the
Speaker 2: mosque for various ceremonies. When the rika Quista happens, they
Speaker 2: try to stamp all this hashishi use out, but be
Speaker 2: it with geodonno Bruno, for example, it speculated that he
Speaker 2: was actually high on hashish when he came up with
Speaker 2: his the belief that all the stars were actually sons.
Speaker 2: And so by the time that in France in particular
Speaker 2: was very infatuated with the Oriental and so by the
Speaker 2: time the English, I forget the englishman's name that wrote
Speaker 2: One thousand and one Nights, but by the time that
Speaker 2: was written, and especially into the Victorian era, people were
Speaker 2: absolutely experimenting with cannabis and hishish and it was very popular,
Speaker 2: specifically in France, and that's where you get people, you know,
Speaker 2: poets and stuff in the English period going down to Paris.
Speaker 1: I like some of the Irish and you know, famous
Speaker 1: British poets were you know taken opium and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But that was the only thing I really ever.
Speaker 2: Heard, and it came from this belief that from again,
Speaker 2: the book the One thousand and one Nights was actually
Speaker 2: incredibly influential in Europe for the normalization and consumption of
Speaker 2: Haiesh in the belief that it actually elevated you to
Speaker 2: these ancient spiritual beliefs and truth to some sort. And
Speaker 2: that's what people, famous poets were actually traveling to France
Speaker 2: during that period to engage in these pract these practices
Speaker 2: believing that the Oriental was able to preserve something that
Speaker 2: Christianity tried to stomp out. Again, we just talked about
Speaker 2: the Rican Quista, and they were not in favor of
Speaker 2: these practices. So by the time just before the Victorian era,
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, well, now we have these practices back,
Speaker 2: just like the Orientals had, and now we're not tainted
Speaker 2: by you know, the Catholic Church can't control everything we
Speaker 2: do anymore. And so then you start getting into the
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds and the experimentation with nitrous oxide and anesthetics
Speaker 2: becomes a huge thing for people to engage for mystical
Speaker 2: spiritual purposes. I mean, this is you know, by the
Speaker 2: time of William James. So this is late eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 2: early nineteen hundreds William James. That's his first experiment. So
Speaker 2: the whole book on his belief on definition of religion,
Speaker 2: it has to do with his nitrous oxide experiences and
Speaker 2: arguing that the getting inebriated actually again for them, allows
Speaker 2: you to bypass the rational mind so that you can
Speaker 2: then engage or interact with the sort of spiritual I
Speaker 2: guess you could say super rational or irrational entities. So
Speaker 2: you can literally trace even though our Gordon Wawson in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven really makes psilocybin mushrooms come onto the
Speaker 2: stage for the first time, all before that Western Europe
Speaker 2: was engaging in opium use, laudanum, drinking various form of anesthetics,
Speaker 2: nitrous oxide and then hashish. So those things were absolutely
Speaker 2: being used from the Renaissance forward. You can find evidence
Speaker 2: of that throughout Western Europe.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we know that Afghanistan is
Speaker 1: a region cashmere region, very important going back to ancient
Speaker 1: times for poppies for opium, so that and that's an
Speaker 1: ancient thing too, And there's a whole there's a whole
Speaker 1: book on this called a visible Empire. That's really good
Speaker 1: from Golden Fitztrail, where you know they kind of theorized
Speaker 1: that for a long time, empires and kingdoms have sought
Speaker 1: to really try to control that region, not just because
Speaker 1: it's the gateway to Eurasia, but also because of this
Speaker 1: you know magical poppy that grows there that you know
Speaker 1: can be used for these for these rituals and whatnot.
Speaker 1: We got we're gonna super push ahead.
Speaker 2: Push comes from from that Central Asian area where all
Speaker 2: that stuff grows, and it's believed by scholars that's actually
Speaker 2: how the Indians got it. So you know, spoking ganja
Speaker 2: in the Indian context, like that whole tradition comes from
Speaker 2: their proximity too to cat Cush in that Central Asian area.
Speaker 2: And then they've incorporated into their Hindu practice, so now
Speaker 2: you can find various practices and spiritual men that that's
Speaker 2: literally all that they do is they get high and
Speaker 2: then do these meditations or perform yoga all day. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: that region is incredibly important in regards to opium and
Speaker 2: marijuana or cannabis used. That's where that stuff really comes from.
Speaker 1: Jarhead Orthodox ten dollars says this is a great topic.
Speaker 1: Can people like Joe Rogan and his guests stop trying
Speaker 1: to convince everybody the early Christians were on shrooms and
Speaker 1: then icons are all shrooms because there's a cow in
Speaker 1: the icon. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I didn't even
Speaker 1: realize until that guy was on with you guys that
Speaker 1: I heard the cows somehow. Oh, because cow's poop, that
Speaker 1: that means that there's That was the dumbest argument I've
Speaker 1: ever heard. But I mean, that is that just a
Speaker 1: I mean, are they just like making up stuff? Like
Speaker 1: where does this idea that because there's a cow it
Speaker 1: means I mean, are there even hallucinogenic mushrooms that grow
Speaker 1: in the Middle East? Maybe they are, And I just
Speaker 1: don't know, but it seems like a climate maybe that
Speaker 1: wouldn't foster this. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I I mean, I'm not sure I would. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be surprised, given again, my understanding of Hinduism. If you know,
Speaker 2: some people think it's an astrological thing of why they
Speaker 2: don't eat.
Speaker 1: Not Hinduism. I'm talking about the the like Middle East, Israel, Palestine,
Speaker 1: like that region that area is is there a growth
Speaker 1: of a mushroom or hallucinogenic. I mean, I know there's
Speaker 1: not a pot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have payout. I am not sure. I
Speaker 2: know they have like the Acacia bush. Like, that's the
Speaker 2: argument from actually Rick Strassman. He's the he's the the
Speaker 2: d MT researcher that really was behind the Spirit Molecule
Speaker 2: documentary of Joe Rogan. It's all based on this book.
Speaker 2: And in this book they put them on IV drips
Speaker 2: of d MT. And in this book he claims that
Speaker 2: the Acacia bush has d MT and if you could
Speaker 2: distill it in the proper way, that these people could
Speaker 2: be inebriated. He makes the argument which I've never ever
Speaker 2: seen another scholar actually try to validate that the burning bush,
Speaker 2: what he calls the myth of the burning bush with Moses,
Speaker 2: was actually in Acacia bush and that he was getting
Speaker 2: high on d MT in front of that burning bush.
Speaker 2: And that's where this whole thing comes from.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I was gonna say, I mean, the rest
Speaker 1: of these things, it seems like they have to be imported.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe they were. I remember some druggy Gnosticish
Speaker 1: person at one time trying to argue that, you know,
Speaker 1: when the Israelites are in the desert and they wake
Speaker 1: up and the the mana is there. Oh, the mana
Speaker 1: must be you know, shrooms or something. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be mushrooms in the desert.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like a thing that would grow in
Speaker 1: the desert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the desert, I doubt there's I Again, according
Speaker 2: to some of the these guys find the most minuscule
Speaker 2: amounts of anything that's psychoactive and then and then create
Speaker 2: a theory of how this could be ritualistically used in
Speaker 2: some manner in regards to psilocybin, Obviously it grows out
Speaker 2: of cow dung, so I could see potentially. But again
Speaker 2: with the Alasinian mysteries, that's in the Mediterranean, and that
Speaker 2: just has to do with a fungus. And so if
Speaker 2: the Alasinian mystery in the Kokon is some sort of
Speaker 2: ergoamine fungus, well maybe there's something going on around that
Speaker 2: period or those areas. I wouldn't be surprised. But I
Speaker 2: do not know of any specific psychoactive substance that is
Speaker 2: indicative or exclusive to that region.
Speaker 1: What about this has kind of changed the focus a
Speaker 1: little bit because of something that pops in my head.
Speaker 1: A lot is a lot of the Russo Finnish Nordic
Speaker 1: stories and tales have this sort of father mushroom father.
Speaker 1: It's not Father Christmas, but he's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like ice Claus, like snow Claus version of Santa. There's actually,
Speaker 1: I forget the Russian name for like father snow time
Speaker 1: whatever he is. But there's like an older pagan version
Speaker 1: of like you know what I'm talking about, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: and then sometimes in the Russo Finish sort of pagan traditions,
Speaker 1: this is linked to mushrooms at times.
Speaker 2: Have you heard this, yeah, the uh it's kind of
Speaker 2: it's kind of like the John Marco Legro where this
Speaker 2: is it's blown out of proportion where people argue that
Speaker 2: Christian Christmas is rooted within this pagan amitito muscaria mushroom ritual.
Speaker 2: But at least from what we actually do know regarding
Speaker 2: that argument is that these these Eskimo people that lived
Speaker 2: closer towards the North Pole and the Siberia, that they
Speaker 2: do practice a form of shamanism, and that they do
Speaker 2: ingest amity and muscaria mushrooms, and that they do pluck
Speaker 2: these things and that they drink the urine of reindeer
Speaker 2: because it filters. So the amity muscary mushroom is actually toxic,
Speaker 2: has muskemol in it, and so you have to let
Speaker 2: it sit and dry for an extensive period of time
Speaker 2: before it can be consumed or you'll get really sick.
Speaker 2: This's why they say it's a toxic mushroom. You can
Speaker 2: kill you. Well, if you just eat it when it's wet,
Speaker 2: it can kill you. And so they have to let
Speaker 2: this thing dry or another mechanism is allow the reindeers,
Speaker 2: which we do know that reindeers do eat this particular mushroom,
Speaker 2: and then you drink their urine, which we know that
Speaker 2: they did. And so there's an argument that the mythology
Speaker 2: of Santa Claus flying around on a sleigh behind reindeer
Speaker 2: dressed in red and white is tied with this sort
Speaker 2: of ritualistic use of the aminimscaria mushroom. They claim that
Speaker 2: the reasons we put presents under the Christmas tree is
Speaker 2: because these mushrooms grow under coniferous trees, and that they're
Speaker 2: like the gifts that the gods have given the people.
Speaker 2: And then they take the presence and they set them
Speaker 2: on the tree so that they can dry in the sun,
Speaker 2: and that the reindeers consume them, and because the reindeers
Speaker 2: can get high along with the people, that they fly
Speaker 2: the world together, and that Santa Claus is like shaman
Speaker 2: Clause or something like that. Certainly those practices do exist.
Speaker 2: But once you then try to say that's the origin
Speaker 2: of Christmas, like, that's just an an achronistic ahistorical argument.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't hold up to then then argue, which
Speaker 2: they do, is that the entirety of Christian Christmas is
Speaker 2: a solar ritual that's tied with these pagan practices that
Speaker 2: is reincorporated into the birth of God, which is really
Speaker 2: due to the death and rebirth of the people that
Speaker 2: ate the Aminymuscary mushrooms. So regards to the grand narrative,
Speaker 2: there's no historical evidence for that. In regards to the
Speaker 2: specific use of the Siberian Eskimo native peoples, yes, but
Speaker 2: then to take what those people did and then say,
Speaker 2: look at Christmas, it's all that. No, that's not a
Speaker 2: strong argument at all.
Speaker 1: What I was trying to remember the name I couldn't
Speaker 1: think of is he's called dead Moreause, and that's that's
Speaker 1: the Russian pagan name for Father Frost or Grandfather Frost.
Speaker 1: And if you look at him, it's funny because he
Speaker 1: looks kind of like the way he's drawn and the
Speaker 1: way they make him up, he kind of looks like
Speaker 1: a pagan version of like Bishop Nicholas. He's like, he's
Speaker 1: an interesting character, but it reminds me too of there's
Speaker 1: a really funny kind of classic episode of Mystery Science
Speaker 1: Theater called Jack Frost and then riff tracks the more
Speaker 1: recent instantiation. They redid the old Mystery Science Theater version.
Speaker 1: It's a nineteen sixty four movie that they kind of
Speaker 1: riff on and make fun of. It's really right up
Speaker 1: this alley because they basically take a bunch of the
Speaker 1: Russo Finnish pagan myths and tales and they put it
Speaker 1: into this really weird, trippy movie with Father Frost and
Speaker 1: with Father Mushroom, all these weird sort of pagan characters.
Speaker 1: Everybody should watch it because it ties in perfectly what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I'm gonna put in the checks. I
Speaker 1: actually found it on YouTube, but every time we talk
Speaker 1: about this, I think of Father Frost, and it makes
Speaker 1: me think of this movie because in the movie, before
Speaker 1: Father Frost arrives, you have to have this encounter with
Speaker 1: with Father Mushroom, who's this little weird, sort of trippy
Speaker 1: dude out in the He's a little trickster deity who
Speaker 1: exists as a gnome in the forest. And this is
Speaker 1: again a combination of a bunch of the mythology from
Speaker 1: that region. But Thomas trezier Be can remember what's up? Man.
Speaker 1: Guys want to support the stream, you can do so
Speaker 1: by using super chats or stream labs. The stream labs
Speaker 1: link is penned. And remember, guys, stream labs does not
Speaker 1: take a cut. So if you would like to support
Speaker 1: the stream, and I will give a portion of this
Speaker 1: to uh.
Speaker 2: Doctor, I appreciate you have me on. You don't need
Speaker 2: to what's that You don't need to split it, man,
Speaker 2: Just I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys, if you want to also, I've got
Speaker 1: in the in the show description. We'll begin into this
Speaker 1: here in a second, but doctor Patrick Garry has also
Speaker 1: set up Logos Academy, so I'll go ahead and give
Speaker 1: you guys that link right there. It's also in the
Speaker 1: show description. And this is going to be kind of
Speaker 1: his sort of private tutoring approach to what the way
Speaker 1: he's going to do education. I think this is the
Speaker 1: future of education. As you guys know, I offer a
Speaker 1: course on philosophy through Richard Grosse's outlet as well autonomy
Speaker 1: or a marketplace. That's in the show description too. You
Speaker 1: can get my philosophy course. We'll talk about that in
Speaker 1: a minute. But a Panini says for five pounds, ritual
Speaker 1: abuse and mind control The Manipulation of Attachment is a
Speaker 1: book by ort Epstein, Joseph Schwartz, and Rachel Schwartz. Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll have to check out that book. This kind of Actually,
Speaker 1: I think this is the book that Jamie, my wife has,
Speaker 1: I think she has that book. Me and Eugene five dollars.
Speaker 1: Let's go fellas. Rachel Wilson sends twenty bucks. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Rachel Wilson, appreciate that. She says, Number one,
Speaker 1: c K, what's up to one of our growing black
Speaker 1: audience members, as you guys know, identify as a black man,
Speaker 1: and that's bringing more and more.
Speaker 2: You're huge in that community.
Speaker 1: I am growing. I'm gonna be like the I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be basically the next Tyler Perry when I do some
Speaker 1: stand up for the black people in the black community.
Speaker 1: Thank you, c K appreciate that Harvest five dollars. Somehow
Speaker 1: I came across this channel in the last week or two.
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to figure out what it is, but
Speaker 1: I'm here. Well, we do all kinds of stuff, so
Speaker 1: that might be what's throwing you for a loop. So
Speaker 1: sometimes I do comedic streams. Sometimes I do very focused
Speaker 1: geopolitical streams. Sometimes we do interviews, like with the great
Speaker 1: doctor David Patrick Harry. Sometimes we just you know, joke around.
Speaker 1: It's all over the place. We do it all here.
Speaker 1: But thank you for being with us Harvest chairs for
Speaker 1: twenty sex, which is some shitty currency that ends up
Speaker 1: being about thirty cents, But thank you for that. Dph
Speaker 1: are you let me preface this with I don't know
Speaker 1: if he is, but I am familiar. Of course, we
Speaker 1: had a bad interaction with this individual some years back,
Speaker 1: and I think this person has ended up in Mormonism.
Speaker 1: But Kotail, are you familiar with Jan Irvin and gnostic
Speaker 1: media claims? And he was one of the characters that
Speaker 1: was on those early Joe Rogan podcasts when Joe was
Speaker 1: first talking about alegro and all.
Speaker 2: That I am familiar with. Jan I've never interacted or
Speaker 2: engaged with him. From my understanding, he was big into
Speaker 2: the psychedelic stuff, and then he was like big into
Speaker 2: calling out the intelligence agencies behind mckinna and Leary. And
Speaker 2: then last I was aware he like changed all of
Speaker 2: his stuff to like logos media and was Christian.
Speaker 1: He's Mormon.
Speaker 2: He's Mormon now, okay, so yeah, I really don't follow
Speaker 2: that guy. He was. He actually wrote a book that's
Speaker 2: mentioned in this one, The Psychedelic Gospels, where he tried
Speaker 2: to argue for this eucharistic mushroom theory within Christianity. So unfortunately,
Speaker 2: his book for him, unfortunately was never touted in no
Speaker 2: academic actually used it or cited. Even Jerry Brown says
Speaker 2: that the research and it's very dubious, and that is
Speaker 2: him literally interpreting anything that he could pull in regards
Speaker 2: to mushroom or psychedelics, trying to argue that this is
Speaker 2: the origin of Christianity.
Speaker 1: Hush Tone says, for five dollars, we all know that
Speaker 1: you're honorary black because you always show up later than
Speaker 1: your life. Trams are set for well The explanation for
Speaker 1: that is that Jay Dier time just also happened to
Speaker 1: coincide with Black people time, and so we actually linked
Speaker 1: up on being late, and we decided that we're all
Speaker 1: one people. Bro jet for five bucks, we need David
Speaker 1: Patrick carry on Sam Tripoli's tenfoil hat. That would be
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation. I know Sam likes to go out
Speaker 1: there in the weeds in terms of the psychedelic speculations,
Speaker 1: So maybe I don't know if Cotel would you be
Speaker 1: interesting going on some of the comedian streams. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: help me to suggest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, please, Okay, I'll.
Speaker 1: See if Tripley is interested. Seamus twenty dollars says, have
Speaker 1: you ever thought about consulting for Orthodox or Roman Catholics
Speaker 1: on the issue related to converting pagans and occultis? Both
Speaker 1: churches have seen their exorcism ministries grow, and they say
Speaker 1: that the growth of occultism is an issue. I'll answer
Speaker 1: this and then I'll let Cotail answer. I don't really
Speaker 1: know that the priests need consultation from myself. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: call myself an expert on the occult. I've read a
Speaker 1: lot about the occult, written some books on it in
Speaker 1: terms of Hollywood and symbolism. But I don't really think
Speaker 1: typically for catechisis anything like that's really necessary. Maybe just
Speaker 1: more so, perhaps awareness that occult traditions are growing and
Speaker 1: becoming more popular. We probably will need more and more
Speaker 1: exorcisms as time goes by. But in the Orthodox Church,
Speaker 1: exorcisms are typically just part of baptism. They're not. It's
Speaker 1: not like this special ritual like in the Roman Catholic world,
Speaker 1: the Latin rite of exorcism and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's a little more hollywoodized. Cotel, what do you think
Speaker 1: about consulting Roman Catholics on occultism.
Speaker 2: I think that's a dubious idea. And really, for catechisis
Speaker 2: the only thing that an Orthodox priest needs to make
Speaker 2: aware of to a Catechuman is that occultism and the
Speaker 2: effectiveness of actual occult rituals is real. And I get
Speaker 2: people that are Catechumans and they ask me that quite well,
Speaker 2: what do you think about magic? And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: our paradigm said that this stuff is actually real. You
Speaker 2: don't need to learn about it. And especially I wouldn't
Speaker 2: recommend anybody until you're brought into the church and really
Speaker 2: understand and gain a fronom of Orthodoxy, because I've talked
Speaker 2: with a handful of guys that had like one foot
Speaker 2: still in this occult match spiritual world and then one
Speaker 2: foot in the Orthodoxy, and Orthodoxy for them is very
Speaker 2: like a rational argumentation. And then I talk with them
Speaker 2: and lo and behold. You know, six months goes by
Speaker 2: and the asceticism and the spirituality of Orthodoxy isn't as
Speaker 2: appealing as being able to still take drugs and do
Speaker 2: all this other stuff. So I think for anybody getting
Speaker 2: in the church, just focus on Orthodoxy and once you're in,
Speaker 2: if you want to, then go back and look at
Speaker 2: the history of this stuff. Feel free.
Speaker 1: John of San Francisco since twenty five dollars says, thank
Speaker 1: you for this all this help. You've helped me learn
Speaker 1: a lot and sent me kept me sane at my work.
Speaker 1: God bless Yeah, a lot of people listen at work,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that it helps keep you guys sane.
Speaker 1: That's good to know. Ellie's W's became a member for
Speaker 1: three months. Welcome Ellie. Guys. Be sure and check the
Speaker 1: member section over here, and of course also have the
Speaker 1: member section at the website, it's largely the same material,
Speaker 1: but of course I haven't been able to move everything
Speaker 1: from the website over here on YouTube because we've only
Speaker 1: been remonetized for a few months now on YouTube. But
Speaker 1: anything new, of course goes into the members section on
Speaker 1: YouTube as well. And yes, overall it is pretty much
Speaker 1: the same material, but the full archive is available at
Speaker 1: the website. Feels for days five pounds, we evolve from monkeys.
Speaker 1: They was eating magic poopoo peepe mushrooms. Also, Father Frost
Speaker 1: is a Communist version of Santa I think Father Frost
Speaker 1: is way pre communism. He's an older pagan version. But
Speaker 1: perhaps the Soviets did utilize Father Frost as some sort
Speaker 1: of way to kind of war against the Saint Nicholas
Speaker 1: or something in the church. But communists, interestingly, they tended
Speaker 1: to socialists, and communists have tended, at least in the
Speaker 1: terms of the party, to be anti drugs. Isn't that
Speaker 1: what you find to be the case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, hardcore communists tend to be kind of anti drugs
Speaker 2: because that could give you some pernicious ideas that are
Speaker 2: anti communists. They can't control that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it seems like, you know, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure the Soviet Party didn't want, you know, drugs going
Speaker 1: on on a larger scale, but maybe early Bolsheviks were
Speaker 1: super party oriented, and then you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know the whole history of exactly how they
Speaker 1: viewed drugs, but I would think that my guess would
Speaker 1: be there.
Speaker 2: I think alcohol, alcohol was definitely warmly welcome, but I
Speaker 2: don't know if any at least me personally. I don't
Speaker 2: know of anything regarding inebriate substances and communism. Typically, from
Speaker 2: my understanding, the Bolsheviks were not interested in allowing people
Speaker 2: to get anebriated. You could drink as much alcohol as
Speaker 2: you want, they didn't care about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dance Commodore two hundred and fifty rons. I love
Speaker 1: David Patrick carry Also, thank you for your comedy Jay
Speaker 1: the only place where I laugh and get educated at
Speaker 1: the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of what we've always wanted to do, was,
Speaker 1: you know, synthesize both of those both of those things.
Speaker 1: Have it be edutainment infotainment, and have it be you know,
Speaker 1: funny and fun at the same time. Let's see, we've
Speaker 1: got some more super chats. Cholo Mechicano ten dollars. When
Speaker 1: are we gonna slaughter some of those sacred cows and
Speaker 1: make hamburgers? Yeah, I mean I've always wondered. I can't
Speaker 1: prove this, but I've always wondered if India's worship of
Speaker 1: the cow was somehow related to like the ancient you know,
Speaker 1: you know an erin when Moses goes up on the
Speaker 1: mountain and they're worshiping the calf the god of Egypt,
Speaker 1: Like maybe Egypt bequeathed this you know, deity in some
Speaker 1: some way to India. Maybe India was reverencing the deity
Speaker 1: earlier and it somehow got into Egypt. Do you know
Speaker 1: much about that? Any theories on that?
Speaker 2: Uh No, there, I mean the theories regarding the veneration
Speaker 2: of the calf. Some believe it has to do with
Speaker 2: an after the zodiac, that these practices originated in that
Speaker 2: it may have been a veneration of was it aries
Speaker 2: which one's the ball no Taurus during some like the
Speaker 2: Taurus period. Again, this is kind of in the wheelhouse
Speaker 2: of the Graham Hancock like looking at the maderial time
Speaker 2: and the zodiacs and trying to figure out mythology and stuff.
Speaker 2: Like that. Some people argue that's where this stuff comes from.
Speaker 2: Others have argued, like the gnostic guy that was on
Speaker 2: my open panel, that this has to do with psilocybin, mushrooms,
Speaker 2: with cow dung. Potentially, it's kind of an unsolved mystery
Speaker 2: as what is the actual reason why cows are so
Speaker 2: highly venerated within Hinduism Because at least historically, at least
Speaker 2: like in the rig Veda period, that wasn't the case.
Speaker 1: Let's see, we got jets and five bucks and says, no,
Speaker 1: we wade those. Excuse me, bust down, Jubilee. Okay, Joe
Speaker 1: one dollar. Let's give doctor Dph some flowers. How much
Speaker 1: do you guys love and watch dph? Jay? I watched
Speaker 1: pretty much. I would say ninety percent of dph's streams
Speaker 1: I end up watching. Let's see John Jason Cassell. Wow,
Speaker 1: he sends a hundred bucks. Thanks man. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: He says, hello, gentlemen, I'm a new Orthodox, But I
Speaker 1: am wrong? Am I wrong to assume that people that
Speaker 1: claim to have spiritual awakenings and finding God are suffering
Speaker 1: from pre list? Well, we don't know. I think time
Speaker 1: usually tells you know whether that person was having a
Speaker 1: real experience. I think it's possible that even a bad
Speaker 1: drug trip could spur a person on to go to
Speaker 1: church or to seek God. I mean, that's possible. I
Speaker 1: just think that time is the ultimate sort of determiner,
Speaker 1: because if a person isn't really serious or interested in it,
Speaker 1: and they have some sort of ecstatic drug experience, that
Speaker 1: tends to fade and then people move on to other things.
Speaker 1: But will ask doctor David Patrick Carrey, to what degree
Speaker 1: in your life did hallucin engens indirectly maybe point you
Speaker 1: in the direction of Christianity in God, or maybe it didn't,
Speaker 1: And do you think these things can potentially be ways
Speaker 1: where people accidentally wake up to real Christianity or something.
Speaker 2: So Obviously, because of my background, I've dealt with a
Speaker 2: lot of Orthodox converts that come from the sort of
Speaker 2: psychoonot area, and there are a handful of cases in
Speaker 2: which people had some type of mystical encounter that changed
Speaker 2: their direction and orientation. I had something similar. I would
Speaker 2: never say that taking psychedelics like brings you closer to God,
Speaker 2: because I also had a lot of weird things that
Speaker 2: I thought were going to come true that never did.
Speaker 2: I mean Terence McKinnon his time wave zero theory. He
Speaker 2: thought that like time machines were going to be invented,
Speaker 2: or the apocalypse of some sort of the end of
Speaker 2: history was in the year two thousand and I think
Speaker 2: this is consistent with like these weird fabrications you get
Speaker 2: when you go into altered psychoanatic space and then you're
Speaker 2: totally convinced because of the phenomenological experience that something is
Speaker 2: getting ready to occur, and then it never does. For
Speaker 2: me personally, it was actually after I did that PhD
Speaker 2: course on Orthodoxy, history and theology, and I began watching
Speaker 2: some Josiah Trenham videos that summer, and Jay actually told
Speaker 2: you that it was the first video I watched of yours.
Speaker 2: Now I'm blanking on the title, but it was on
Speaker 2: logos and theories of numbers or something of that. I
Speaker 2: forget exactly what the title was, but I clicked on
Speaker 2: your video and you were talking about sort of the
Speaker 2: paradigm and really doing a kind of presuppositional approach to
Speaker 2: philosophy and theology. And I was still psychedelic, but I
Speaker 2: really liked this paradigm of Orthodoxy. But again, I'm a
Speaker 2: non believer. I'm not interested in joining a man made institution,
Speaker 2: and that just kind of wore on me. Towards that
Speaker 2: last semester that I took, I did a high dose
Speaker 2: LS the trip in my apartment in Berkeley, California, and
Speaker 2: at the end of it, I had this quote unquote
Speaker 2: epiphany that all these things I liked about psychedelic spirituality
Speaker 2: or the New Age, be it fractal mathematics, sacred geometry, psymatics,
Speaker 2: the unity of peoples, that actually all this stuff is
Speaker 2: reinterpreted and properly expressed within Christianity regarding logos metaphysics, and
Speaker 2: that's where your video on numbers like actually influenced this
Speaker 2: realization later. But loving your neighbor as yourself as opposed
Speaker 2: that we're all one, like this sylopsism of psychedelics is
Speaker 2: properly interpreted. Is that, no, you love your neighbor as yourself,
Speaker 2: but actually you're just think peoples. And so I had
Speaker 2: this quote unquote epiphany. And it was that night in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen that I began to pray for the first
Speaker 2: time since again that I lost my naive Methodist faith.
Speaker 2: And then I was convinced that I was John Cyril
Speaker 2: for those who don't know. He's a famous analytic philosopher,
Speaker 2: arguably the most famous still living. And he was fired
Speaker 2: from Berkeley, California when I was there, and I and
Speaker 2: as as he was fired. That next semester, I did
Speaker 2: a chorus on person in Neuroscience where he presented his
Speaker 2: Chinese room thought experiment, which kind of debunks the functionalist
Speaker 2: definition of AI Syndian intelligence and stuff like that. But
Speaker 2: he talked a little bit about being fired and how
Speaker 2: he again he asked like some woman who was like
Speaker 2: almost fifty years old out to dinner and he was
Speaker 2: in his seventies, and yeah, he's probably the biggest, one
Speaker 2: of the biggest figures at Berkeley. Well they fired him
Speaker 2: for that, for sexual harassment. And so I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: in Berkeley with him also being an instructor now at
Speaker 2: the Dominican School because he can't teach at Berkeley.
Speaker 1: You're also a straight white male who's going to get
Speaker 1: fired for as you know exactly. I mean, that's what
Speaker 1: they do. Like I think, I mean, you know this,
Speaker 1: but like when I decided that I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be in academia, I wanted to get a PhD. And
Speaker 1: all that you know, I was in grad school, and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I realize it's very much a click.
Speaker 1: And you know, these feminists, these radical liberals, like they
Speaker 1: don't want anyone like us in the in that sphere.
Speaker 2: No, no, and I and that was very palpable being
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area. And so after that experience, I decided,
Speaker 2: holy shit, I got to do something because I cannot
Speaker 2: depend on working for a university. And that's actually what
Speaker 2: eventually led to me creating Church of the Eternal Logos
Speaker 2: Is I thought. And I had this pro psychedelic channel,
Speaker 2: but my whole again as that journey from Orthodoxy and
Speaker 2: then you and Josiah, Father Josiah, and then eventually now
Speaker 2: in my heart feeling like Christianity is the truth. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to keep making all that content promoting Terrence
Speaker 2: McKinnon and Timothy Leary. So I thought, man, the only
Speaker 2: option for me is to create a new YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: And so I my my mom got diagnosed with an
Speaker 2: illness at that time, and I was kind of going
Speaker 2: through a crisis. I needed to decide if I was
Speaker 2: going to stay in Berkeley to finish my dissertation and
Speaker 2: use their resources or just do it remotely, and so
Speaker 2: I went. The last time I took quote unquote psychedelics,
Speaker 2: I did an ayahuasca ceremony and Joshua tree. And this
Speaker 2: is before becoming Orthodox. But during this whole transitional phase
Speaker 2: and during that experience, I had done a lot of psychedelics,
Speaker 2: but I never had the experience I had during this
Speaker 2: ayahuasca ceremony, where I consumed the eyewasking why who's done
Speaker 2: these things? Again, don't do it. I'm not advising any
Speaker 2: of this stuff. I'm just sharing you what my journey
Speaker 2: and my experience was consumed it. I got people around
Speaker 2: me at this ceremony, this female shaman, the shaman is is,
Speaker 2: She's singing songs and doing her ekeros and all this stuff.
Speaker 2: I got people crawling around the floor acting like jaguars,
Speaker 2: and I'm not feeling anything. So I asked for another cup,
Speaker 2: and I asked for another cup. I do three cups
Speaker 2: of ayahuasca. The trip comes on, and the realization I
Speaker 2: had was if we're going to be judged, which almost
Speaker 2: every religious mythology has some type of judgment after death,
Speaker 2: well it only makes sense of God took on human form,
Speaker 2: and so I became fully convinced in my heart that
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ was a historical person and it was God incarnate.
Speaker 2: And then the second realization was, if I want to
Speaker 2: be like Christ, it's time for me to build something
Speaker 2: and stop consuming consuming drugs, consuming the ideas of McKenna,
Speaker 2: consuming culture. And I felt compelled to create Church with
Speaker 2: Eternal Logos. So that was in July of two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 2: and then in August of twenty nineteen, I launched Church
Speaker 2: of Eternal Logos, and in September twenty nineteen, I move
Speaker 2: home from Berkeley and try to begin finishing all my
Speaker 2: PhD stuff while starting the new YouTube channel where I'm
Speaker 2: no longer doing what I'm doing. I'm producing my own
Speaker 2: content and I'm trying to present it from the lens
Speaker 2: of Orthodoxy. And so once I moved back to Indiana
Speaker 2: in September twenty nineteen, that's when I got became a
Speaker 2: catechumen in the Orthodox Church and never done that since.
Speaker 2: So did psychedelics lead me to Christ? Not really? If anything,
Speaker 2: I almost felt convicted when I got into those spaces
Speaker 2: the last two times I did it, one reaffirming Christianity
Speaker 2: is actually fulfilling the things that I believe to be true.
Speaker 2: And then the second one, it was time for me
Speaker 2: to start my own business and actually become a man.
Speaker 2: And if Christ was you know, if he built things,
Speaker 2: if he was a carpenter, it was time for me
Speaker 2: to begin to build something. And the iron the irony
Speaker 2: of that experience is that the ayahuasca stopped and this,
Speaker 2: you know, and people said, oh, that's because you were
Speaker 2: doing too much drugs. Man, your serotonin levels were no
Speaker 2: we this had been a long long period before I'd
Speaker 2: done psychedelics before this. I'm very aware of how all
Speaker 2: that stuff worked. We even did like the spiritual fasting
Speaker 2: before the ceremony, but it shut down like there was
Speaker 2: no trip at all. I was completely sober. The shaman
Speaker 2: was surprised. She couldn't believe it because I was telling her, look,
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling it anymore, and she's like, you just
Speaker 2: had three cups, like I can't. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: give you any more. And then there's a second night.
Speaker 2: There's in the second night, it just didn't work. And
Speaker 2: so to me that was God telling me, look, you
Speaker 2: got to stop doing this stuff. And to me, it
Speaker 2: was almost like a mystical experience in the sense that
Speaker 2: the drugs didn't work, because that had never ever happened before.
Speaker 2: So did Christ meet me in that state? Potentially? I
Speaker 2: think he can meet people anywhere. Do psychedelics take you
Speaker 2: towards Christ? Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it reminds me of you know,
Speaker 1: you and I both have been on your Mate Tooms's
Speaker 1: channel and podcasts, and you know, we did some pretty
Speaker 1: in depth interviews with him, and you know, there was
Speaker 1: a period where he was really interested in Orthodoxy and
Speaker 1: Christianity and it was because he says he had had
Speaker 1: this really dark sort of demonic trip and he was
Speaker 1: seeing you know, demonic entities and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: you know, and then he ended up for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: I'm not knocking the dude, it's just you know, he
Speaker 1: ended up just not continuing in the direction of Christianity.
Speaker 1: So you know, even when you have these sort of
Speaker 1: bad trips or intense experiences and you think you're seeing
Speaker 1: spiritual realities or you're experiencing demons, I'm not saying or not.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, these trips kind of I would
Speaker 1: take them with a grain of salt, as I guess
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say in terms of drug trips.
Speaker 1: I've had bad trips. My first trip was a really
Speaker 1: bad trip. It didn't immediately make me, you know, go
Speaker 1: to church or seek out Christianity maybe a year or
Speaker 1: two later because of a bad trip and sort of
Speaker 1: I guess I would say in my situation, it did
Speaker 1: kind of wake me up to spiritual realities, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't moving the direction of Christianity after it. Maybe it
Speaker 1: did make me start asking some questions that I maybe
Speaker 1: wouldn't have asked before doing LSD, but I definitely wouldn't
Speaker 1: attribute conversion to drugs. Panos, what's up? Panosis? For five dollars?
Speaker 1: Congratulations on the PhD. Cotel, you guys should consider a
Speaker 1: collaboration with doctor Nathan Jacobs. Know he's buddies with FDA.
Speaker 1: I'm just not yet. I haven't met him, we haven't spoken.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's a cool dude. I think the conversations
Speaker 1: that you guys would have would be beefy. What are
Speaker 1: your recommendations for people outside of academia in terms of
Speaker 1: something to look into to say, sharp informed and constantly learning.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Kotel would recommend his course which is linked
Speaker 1: Logos Academy, which is linked in the show description. Why
Speaker 1: don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that, because I do want to get back into
Speaker 1: some more of the topics. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: Esslin Institute. You know, you've recommended a lot of books
Speaker 1: over the years, uh, and one of those that I
Speaker 1: got was this history of Esselin that you recommended. Most
Speaker 1: of the books that you mentioned on these topics, I
Speaker 1: do end up buying this one. Maybe is not for
Speaker 1: people trying to stay up on top of things. Just
Speaker 1: just a book that I that I heard you mentioned
Speaker 1: that I wanted to get, but.
Speaker 2: I would argue it's the it's the bet now. It's
Speaker 2: written by doctor Jeffrey Kripele who runs a gnostic Esoteria
Speaker 2: mystical institute out of Rice. It's kind of one of
Speaker 2: the only programs in the US like it. There's a
Speaker 2: few in Europe where you can get like a PhD.
Speaker 2: And Eric Davis, who's a famous author. He was like
Speaker 2: the last one to interview Terence McKenna. He just got
Speaker 2: a PhD from Rice under doctor Kreipel. Jeffrey Kriipel was
Speaker 2: asked by Michael Murphy, the founder of the Esslin Institute,
Speaker 2: to write the sort of ultimate historical overview. And so
Speaker 2: if you're an academic like Jay or myself, it's a
Speaker 2: useful book. Not that you agree with like how the
Speaker 2: author is presenting it, but it's really useful in seeing
Speaker 2: the historical trajectory and narrative of that institute.
Speaker 1: Are you going to take your thesis and put it
Speaker 1: into something readable or like, what's what is there a book?
Speaker 1: Maybe there was a different book that you would recommend
Speaker 1: that's like the best overview of like hallucinogens and spirituality
Speaker 1: and what do you think?
Speaker 2: I have not found a great overview of Most of
Speaker 2: the work that gets into psychedelics is almost always written
Speaker 2: by somebody who so it's very biased most of the stuff,
Speaker 2: and even amongst the scholars, because in academia most people
Speaker 2: don't engage with this stuff unless they're like closely associated
Speaker 2: with the practices of it. Almost every PhD that's involved
Speaker 2: with psychedelic studies is themselves a psychoonot. So my plan
Speaker 2: is to eventually write some type of book, be it
Speaker 2: about one hundred and fifty to one hundred pages, it's
Speaker 2: for an average reader on a literal historical overview of
Speaker 2: these substances and their relationship to mysticism and how it
Speaker 2: then emerges in the twentieth century and kind of take
Speaker 2: you up to the twenty first century. It's really just
Speaker 2: a historical overview. I do plan on doing that. I
Speaker 2: have a paper titled Technologies of Transcendence that I wrote
Speaker 2: during the PhD program that I want to rework and
Speaker 2: expand on for that, and it's basically arguing that drugs
Speaker 2: are form of technology for mystical transcendence. I'm not arguing
Speaker 2: in favor of them. I'm just and then I just
Speaker 2: document from the ancient period. The paper only goes up
Speaker 2: to Alistair Crowley, but adding a whole another chapter, a
Speaker 2: whole couple sections on the twentieth century. Yeah, that's something
Speaker 2: that I want to do, and I'll probably make that
Speaker 2: turn that into a course for the Logos Academy. Eventually
Speaker 2: you're muted. I can't hear you.
Speaker 1: Tell us about Logos Academy. I'm looking at it over
Speaker 1: here the link long form lectures Private Breakdown's Philosophical Training.
Speaker 1: What are you envisioning here? Is there a course already up?
Speaker 1: I see you've got already eighty six Members's the what's
Speaker 1: the overall plan? Here?
Speaker 2: So the idea is this is a men's community. So
Speaker 2: I'm sorry women out there, this is for men and
Speaker 2: it's a male only space. And the idea of the
Speaker 2: Logos Academy obviously I've you know, I don't run a church,
Speaker 2: but my YouTube channels called Church of the Eternal Logos.
Speaker 2: It's just a theological perspective from Logo on various topics,
Speaker 2: and Logos Academy is trying to basically build an environment
Speaker 2: for men, young men, but most of the people in
Speaker 2: there already like established men where we can talk about
Speaker 2: and discuss anything, and I can then utilize my academic
Speaker 2: or educational skills for that community specifically. So the first
Speaker 2: thing that we're going to do, I mean right now,
Speaker 2: what we have is I have all my exclusive members
Speaker 2: content and part two streams that I actually have to
Speaker 2: think Jay for because he's the one that gave me
Speaker 2: the idea, and then we actually need to think Jamie
Speaker 2: because she's the one that gave him the idea. But
Speaker 2: all those streams that I've done, those are over on
Speaker 2: the Logos Academy now much more accessible and easily to access.
Speaker 2: The goal is for to take the dissertation, which is
Speaker 2: very very academic. This is not a mass reader. This
Speaker 2: is like three hundred pages of DNSE academic intellectual history
Speaker 2: on the relationship of technology from really the medieval period,
Speaker 2: and it's tied with millenarianism and how transhumanism. I make
Speaker 2: the argument actually emerges out of a Christian ethos beginning
Speaker 2: with John Scoto's Irregina. He was one of the court
Speaker 2: philosophers for the Carolingian Empire right in the middle of
Speaker 2: the eight hundreds, and he was a neil Platonist. He
Speaker 2: was an Irish Neil Platonist, and he developed this idea
Speaker 2: that the mechanical arts because during the Carolingian era there
Speaker 2: was referred to as the Carolingian Renaissance, where like the
Speaker 2: plow and the watermill and these things emerge as technologies
Speaker 2: that allowed labor to be easier. And of course during
Speaker 2: that period you have the rise of the Benedictines of
Speaker 2: the Ara at Lebora, tying a sort of spirituality with work.
Speaker 2: And I argue that John Scott's Iregina then presented that
Speaker 2: technology was going to redeem all the lost attributes of Adam.
Speaker 2: So Adam was a perfect spiritual person and what everything
Speaker 2: he lost to become the rupted man. Technology was going
Speaker 2: to redeem in us. And then I trace that concept
Speaker 2: and the dispositions towards technology through people like you of
Speaker 2: Saint Victor Roger Bacon. And this gets tied with Yakima
Speaker 2: Fiore's Millenarianism, where he believed this Third Age, the Age
Speaker 2: of the Holy Spirit. Sacraments were no longer important, the
Speaker 2: priesthood was no longer Essentially, it's a form of Protestantism
Speaker 2: because it was the Age of Holy Men. As long
Speaker 2: as you were virtuous and spiritual, the Holy Spirit would
Speaker 2: inform you. And this was going to be a utopian age.
Speaker 2: It was kind of a millinery and disposition. Well that
Speaker 2: literally informs somebody like Francis Bacon when he writes The
Speaker 2: New Atlantis where he develops a new understanding of science
Speaker 2: and he does away with the Aristotilian understanding of categories
Speaker 2: and logic. Not that he's against that stuff, but he
Speaker 2: presents a new utilitarian form of science, that science and
Speaker 2: knowledge is all about practical utility. And I traced that
Speaker 2: into then the founding of the Royal Society, the founding
Speaker 2: of speculative Freemasonry, and the rise of the engineer. You
Speaker 2: get people like Henry Saint Simone and Augusta Kompt where
Speaker 2: now you have this positivist scientific philosophy which is still millenarian.
Speaker 2: And then I tie that with America being the city
Speaker 2: on the Hill, and that many people theologians, whether it
Speaker 2: be John Edwards moving forward, believe that America was going
Speaker 2: to be the millenary and kingdom. And so that dissertation
Speaker 2: traces that idea into then contemporary transhumanism as a form
Speaker 2: of post secular deification Orthodox theosis. And then I demonstrate
Speaker 2: how both of these are basically two competing narratives coming
Speaker 2: out of the Christian world regarding deification. One is pre
Speaker 2: modern the Orthodox theosis, which maintains the old metaphysical order
Speaker 2: and essentially Aristotelian categories and all this stuff. Where the
Speaker 2: new one is coming out of this historical thread where
Speaker 2: technology and existential pursuits are going to lead us towards
Speaker 2: you topia, and that orthodox he views transhumanism in its
Speaker 2: own eschological terms related to the Antichrist.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, we both you and I both covered in
Speaker 1: our videos the Peter Teal interview, where Teal seems to
Speaker 1: seems to sort of take Christianity as this allegory for
Speaker 1: technological transhumanism and immortality. That's kind of my reading of
Speaker 1: that weird interview, and he mentioned what was a Renee
Speaker 1: Garard I've not read. I have the book, somebody recommended it,
Speaker 1: but I have never gotten to it yet. So I'm
Speaker 1: assuming that he just sort of takes the Christianity in
Speaker 1: this sort of a symbolic way, kind of a Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson style.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah. And so to wrap up that
Speaker 2: whole dissertation, that is basically an orthodox Christian critique of
Speaker 2: transhumanism utilizing the methodology of intellectual history. That's what that is,
Speaker 2: and my goal is to have that published by the
Speaker 2: end of August. So the Logos Academy that is a
Speaker 2: separate project obviously tied related to it, and that may
Speaker 2: turn into courses. But the first thing we're going to
Speaker 2: do in the Logos Academy we have bi monthly meetings
Speaker 2: where we have free form conversations and then we just
Speaker 2: had one last night, and the members want to do
Speaker 2: like topic themed two hour conversation, So maybe I post
Speaker 2: an article or something and then if people want to
Speaker 2: read it, you don't have to read it, but you
Speaker 2: can then join the meeting and we can talk about
Speaker 2: things like a classroom setting. And then we have a
Speaker 2: fitness group that kind of holds people accountable for fitness, diet,
Speaker 2: spiritual life, and then career or life goals. And so
Speaker 2: those are the three meetings we do every month, and
Speaker 2: my goal is to create The first course will be
Speaker 2: a history on the logos, beginning with the pre Socratics,
Speaker 2: people like Heraclitis and this idea of logos, moving into
Speaker 2: eventually the Gospel of John and the ending of the
Speaker 2: Neoplatonic academies, and that will be tied with My goal
Speaker 2: is to create an ebook related to that, and then
Speaker 2: another course on the history of metaphysics essentially from the
Speaker 2: Midia Evil period to the postmodern turn in the twentieth century,
Speaker 2: and that is the kind of continuation of the same conversation.
Speaker 2: And then I want to build out a course that
Speaker 2: is going to go into deeper to regards to that ebook.
Speaker 2: So those are kind of the two big projects that
Speaker 2: we talked about last night in the group that I
Speaker 2: want to try to get done by the end of
Speaker 2: this year. So by the end of twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: there should be two full courses on the history of
Speaker 2: logos the history of metaphysics, tied with ebooks that are
Speaker 2: kind of introductions to those topics, and then Part two
Speaker 2: streams exclusive videos all my show notes or study guides
Speaker 2: are available for the group, and then of course our
Speaker 2: three meetings each month, plus sometimes Q and a's. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of what we do at the group, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of themed like an ancient academy. I mean
Speaker 2: we want I mean last night, some of the guys
Speaker 2: are like professional powerlifters, and it's an interesting amalgamation of
Speaker 2: different guys and it's just a place for us to
Speaker 2: come to get other as you know, adults, as men,
Speaker 2: and be able to learn and discuss things that you
Speaker 2: really can't with other people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to reclaim men's spaces. That's such a
Speaker 1: neglected thing given you know, the dominance of feminism in
Speaker 1: our era. I want to remind you guys that I
Speaker 1: will be speaking to the third annual Ludwell Orthodox Fellowship
Speaker 1: Conference in Stafford, Virginia. This is outside of d C,
Speaker 1: so if you're in the DC region, this is September sixth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I will be speaking there along with
Speaker 1: Metropolitan Jonah Jim Jatras, our good buddy, Buck Johnson, our
Speaker 1: good friend Proto Decon, doctor Patrick, Father Turbo, and some
Speaker 1: other priests and people I'm not familiar with. I'm sure
Speaker 1: they're all great people I'm just not familiar with, and
Speaker 1: of course Rebecca that runs Dissident Media. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a great conference Saturday, September sixth, twenty twenty five, Stafford, Virginia,
Speaker 1: and you can get the tickets in the link in
Speaker 1: the show description in the link right there. We'll also
Speaker 1: be having a upcoming conference here in Florida. Again. This
Speaker 1: will be our second conference at my church here in Florida.
Speaker 1: The first conference that we did on Iconography with Father
Speaker 1: Deacon and Father Vladimir was a big hit. We had
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of fun. We had a
Speaker 1: nice crowd. So we're going to have an even bigger conference,
Speaker 1: bigger crowd this year. This year's focus, I don't have
Speaker 1: the ticket page up. It will be in November, just
Speaker 1: let you guys know. So we do have plenty of time.
Speaker 1: But the theme this year will be Athens in Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: So we're going to be contrasting these two approaches to
Speaker 1: reality to society civilization. One of course focusing on human
Speaker 1: reasoning and philosophy, and of course Jerusalem focusing on the
Speaker 1: person of Christ, the Messiah and divine revelations. So what
Speaker 1: is the relationship. Is it an antipropy, is it an
Speaker 1: antithesis as Tratolian said, What have Athens to do with Jerusalem?
Speaker 1: Or is there a possibility of overlap or or what
Speaker 1: that will be? The focus will also be getting into aesthetics.
Speaker 1: Of course, by the Vladimir lectures on art history. He's
Speaker 1: an art history teacher. He focuses on the techniques and
Speaker 1: styles of the Renaissance masters and how they put certain
Speaker 1: structures and geometric patterns and forms into their works, and
Speaker 1: that also of course influences later Russian art styles. Dance commodore,
Speaker 1: no way we did that one textas became a member
Speaker 1: shout out to textas Jonathan Britton two dollars. This is
Speaker 1: a kind of a complicated question. Basically, he asks what
Speaker 1: is the Orthodox Church's idea on THC, CBD, silo, cybin,
Speaker 1: et cetera. In short, I will answer it as saying
Speaker 1: that I think that anything can be medicinal, because every
Speaker 1: thing that exists God created and created it good. But
Speaker 1: any of those things could also be conceivably abused. This
Speaker 1: is a great question though, that I'm gonna ask a Cotel.
Speaker 1: I'll ask doctor dph is it are there any potential
Speaker 1: medicinal usages for mushrooms and these kinds of things. I
Speaker 1: know we have this maps thing going, which is I
Speaker 1: think Soros funded. And I'm not talking about minor attracted persons.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about a different things. The thing that has
Speaker 1: to do with like studying hallucinogens. I would say, like
Speaker 1: I knew a guy who was a severe alcoholic. He
Speaker 1: was a good friend of mine from high school. He
Speaker 1: ended up dying a couple of years ago, one of
Speaker 1: my good friends, and I would say, like, in his case,
Speaker 1: he's at such an advanced state of extreme alcohol addiction
Speaker 1: that I don't think some extreme measure, like perhaps some
Speaker 1: program that might have utilized this to to help him
Speaker 1: break free of extreme alcoholic addiction. Maybe in some of
Speaker 1: these extreme cases, something like that could work. But doctor
Speaker 1: David Patrick Harry, what do you think?
Speaker 2: I agree with you? It's that that's the always the
Speaker 2: response whenever I do a stream on psychedelics, people in
Speaker 2: the chat go, well, what about the John Hopkins research
Speaker 2: and the point is that these things are nuanced, and
Speaker 2: so has psilocybin or MBMA shown signs of effectiveness regarding
Speaker 2: PTSD or severe forms of addiction even I begain, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they have. Well I thought you just told me that
Speaker 2: these things are spiritually you know, problematic. Why Well, clearly
Speaker 2: it's helping people. Well, as I would argue, is that
Speaker 2: they do dissolve boundaries. And if you have a boundary
Speaker 2: due to post traumatic stress disorder that you're constantly reliving,
Speaker 2: you're constantly moving through every single time, every time a
Speaker 2: firework goes off. That Yeah, it has shown that if
Speaker 2: you get into these altered states and you sort of
Speaker 2: kind of dissolve these boundaries and have a phenomenological experience
Speaker 2: where you're able to sort of move beyond them when
Speaker 2: you become sober, you're not as throttled with that same
Speaker 2: stress and that trauma. So are they beneficial in that way? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I could see how somebody who's in extreme mental anguish
Speaker 2: due to trauma that this might be beneficial. Same thing
Speaker 2: with potential CBD use. I mean, obviously that's not anee
Speaker 2: grating THHC. You know, everybody points to glaucoma or appetite
Speaker 2: suppression for people that are cancer patients. Yeah, I could
Speaker 2: see how that could be beneficial. At the same time,
Speaker 2: every time you alter your consciousness, you open yourself up
Speaker 2: to spiritual warfare. I mean, as orthodox, we're being inundated
Speaker 2: with thoughts that aren't entirely are all the time. When
Speaker 2: you dissolve the ability of self awareness and even recognize
Speaker 2: things that are infiltrating your mind, you are way more
Speaker 2: susceptible to believing and falling victim to prelast than ever before.
Speaker 2: So they are spiritually dangerous, even if there are potential
Speaker 2: medical applications in certain circumstances. But just because there are
Speaker 2: potential benefits doesn't mean that that should be a free
Speaker 2: pass for your own consumption or use because you're self medicating.
Speaker 2: If you have a really strong tide to these things
Speaker 2: and you find it hard to give them up, well
Speaker 2: there's probably a deeper problem there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. Pano says again five dollars. Thank you guys.
Speaker 1: Listening to you guys talk about this. I'm reminded about
Speaker 1: the horrors of narcissistic abuse, where the victims are made
Speaker 1: to doubt their perceptions of reality. Would you say that
Speaker 1: these substances destroy the gnomic will. I would say that
Speaker 1: any addiction or any mind altering substance could conceivably maybe
Speaker 1: not destroy the will, but enslave the will. M what
Speaker 1: do you think?
Speaker 2: No, I totally agree. I mean anybody who smoked weed.
Speaker 2: I had a bad habit through my twenties, smoked every
Speaker 2: single day. Once you get sober, despite what a pothead
Speaker 2: will tell you that, well, it helps me be creative,
Speaker 2: it help it helps me come up with ideas. If
Speaker 2: you're sober, you have a stronger drive for work, to
Speaker 2: accomplish things, to achieve goals. That yeah, absolutely, it makes
Speaker 2: you apathetic to some degree. And so if you're sober
Speaker 2: and living a healthy life, I promise you the quality
Speaker 2: of your work and the desire to actually accomplish something,
Speaker 2: and your testosterone is going to go up. Marijuana is
Speaker 2: a female plant. It lowers It's been shown to lower
Speaker 2: your testosterone.
Speaker 1: I might have missed this super chat. A couple of
Speaker 1: days ago. Jeff cast five dollars. American Eagle releases an
Speaker 1: ad that isn't super gay, and people complain neat.
Speaker 2: Me and Eugene.
Speaker 1: I think we read that one. Let's see here here
Speaker 1: we go storm the cat ten dollars. My dad's friend
Speaker 1: and other friends have encountered witches in the woods. They
Speaker 1: were standing in a circle, and there they had drawn
Speaker 1: in the mud a circle, and there was a Ouiji board,
Speaker 1: and they were moving in unnatural ways, and supposedly one
Speaker 1: of them levitated, well, I would just stay away from
Speaker 1: the witches. J Mal thirty dollars. Why would Kraljung think
Speaker 1: Christianity rose out of a mythri cult? Do you think
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson believes that? Well? Um, I mean probably in
Speaker 1: the case of kral Young, who I've read a decent
Speaker 1: amount of kral Young, I think he probably was just
Speaker 1: looking for alternative explanations and why he's settled on this
Speaker 1: one or that one. Who knows? I think probably out
Speaker 1: of just pride and academic, you know, arrogance. And I
Speaker 1: would say maybe in Jordan Peterson's case, I don't know
Speaker 1: if he thinks Christianity is mithra or not, but he
Speaker 1: just still, you know, can't he can't bite the bullet
Speaker 1: on Christianity in Toto. So what do you think.
Speaker 2: The phenomenon first launched off? I think there's a video
Speaker 2: on my old YouTube channel before I became christian I
Speaker 2: posted a video from Jordan Peterson essentially spouting the you
Speaker 2: know this mushroom type theory related to Christianity, So I
Speaker 2: can find it on my old YouTube channel. I can
Speaker 2: find it download.
Speaker 1: So you're saying Peterson has in the past endorsed this
Speaker 1: type of an allegro theory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some type. I mean, it's been a while since
Speaker 2: I watched it, but it was tied with the connection
Speaker 2: between mushrooms and Christianity and essentially was promoting the benefits
Speaker 2: of this sort of inebriating spirituality to enlighten oneself. And
Speaker 2: he refers to the John Hopkins research and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: but pulls basically from everybody that we've already discussed presently
Speaker 2: about this sort of general theme of how Christianity may
Speaker 2: be tied with inebriating substances. But maybe his opinion has changed.
Speaker 2: I just remember downloading that and posting it like twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: and it was when he became popular. He had like
Speaker 2: tons of videos already on his YouTube channel, and it
Speaker 2: was an old video that I found on there. At
Speaker 2: the time, I was into psychedelics and I thought, oh, wow, Peterson,
Speaker 2: he knows what's going on. But now it makes you
Speaker 2: think his gnostisism and his unwillingness actually identify as Christian.
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, maybe he's actually still in that camp.
Speaker 1: Santo's Bnacci is an insane person. I don't know what
Speaker 1: people in the chat like, I don't know. You put
Speaker 1: this topic in and and it just attracts like the
Speaker 1: most ridiculous people in the jet. No, we don't deal
Speaker 1: with insane people over here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember.
Speaker 1: We went through on my channels quite a bit of
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson's Personality lectures, and in those there's a significant,
Speaker 1: maybe an entire lecture on Christianity and the Trinity and
Speaker 1: the person of Christ. And basically it was just Zeitgeist
Speaker 1: level stuff that like Isis and Horace and Mary's Isis
Speaker 1: and Jesus is the Son of Raw. It was like
Speaker 1: Zeitgeist level stuff. So maybe he's still sort of hung
Speaker 1: up in that mindset. I remember the when you debate
Speaker 1: a z Zec in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty. You know,
Speaker 1: Jesus isn't divine, but he's like this, he's like a
Speaker 1: symbol for suffering and overcoming or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like the the Adam Kadman of the
Speaker 2: astrological cycle. So I remember Santos stuff. It's all tied
Speaker 2: with this astrology. It's a mixture of like Jordan Maxwell
Speaker 2: and you know a lot of this like New age spirituality.
Speaker 2: So I haven't I haven't seen or heard of Santos
Speaker 2: in a while. I'm not sure what what he what
Speaker 2: he does, but his spirituality is a gnostic illuministic framework
Speaker 2: where Christ is an archetype for who you're supposed to become,
Speaker 2: and all the religions are pointing towards this perennial truth,
Speaker 2: and that the zodiac is the the sort of ultimate
Speaker 2: rubric to understand medicine and healing and and the passing
Speaker 2: of seasons, time history, all these different things. So it is.
Speaker 1: We get I appreciate you guys being so supportive. It's
Speaker 1: a good sign when we can't move along because there's
Speaker 1: so many super chats. Appreciate that you guys are being
Speaker 1: the beloved pay piggies that we appreciate. Involving double monkey
Speaker 1: twenty dollars, I spoke to Charismatic. He said that God
Speaker 1: sent him a dream about his knee surgery. He looked
Speaker 1: for a doctor who agreed that he needed knee surgery. However,
Speaker 1: the surgery didn't work. I asked him how he knew
Speaker 1: the dream wasn't from the devil, and he didn't say anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, that's why in the Orthodox Church we
Speaker 1: just don't focus and pay attention to this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff because everybody in the charismatic world, and the Roman Tholicism,
Speaker 1: by the way, has accepted charismaticism holds from the papacy down.
Speaker 1: It just leads to everybody being diluted, and they follow
Speaker 1: their dreams and their visions, which, as Jeremiah says, are
Speaker 1: from their hearts and not from God. So exactly, any
Speaker 1: thoughts on dreams and visions, And I mean, I think
Speaker 1: psychedelics are a big part of prelest too, Like they
Speaker 1: give you this like you think you're seeing these great insights,
Speaker 1: and it's like, nah, dude, like the seven ten year
Speaker 1: old staring at a candy wrapper realizing that reality is
Speaker 1: all one is not some great mystical insight.
Speaker 2: Right, No, I agree. I think you know, just be
Speaker 2: cautious at dreams. I've seen too many people, even Orthodox Christians,
Speaker 2: try to make like ultimate conclusions from a dream. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we know the prophet Daniel was able to interpret dreams,
Speaker 2: so dreams do have some significance. But who are you.
Speaker 2: You're not the prophet Daniel. You know your ability to
Speaker 2: interpret the you know, the walking dog headed entity that
Speaker 2: you encountered in your you don't know what that means,
Speaker 2: so just stop.
Speaker 1: I think also, like probably Deacon says, like if if
Speaker 1: if you were given dreams from God, from the spirit
Speaker 1: or something like that, like you would be interpreting this
Speaker 1: in the context of your spiritual father kind of helping
Speaker 1: you in guiding you, and He's gonna not let you
Speaker 1: be diluted or fall into some you know, prelust, So
Speaker 1: it would be in the context of the church. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't be you know, I don't know, like I mean,
Speaker 1: for example, Sam Schamun, Sam Chomun's whole ethos is a
Speaker 1: bunch of dreams and visions and nonsense and orbs flying
Speaker 1: around his room. All that's pre last No. One five dollars.
Speaker 1: You should investigate all the people who claim to see
Speaker 1: visions of Christ and angels during the time of Joseph Smith.
Speaker 1: This is a very odd part of history. I think.
Speaker 1: In the in the case of Joseph Smith at number one.
Speaker 1: He's just a con man. I mean it's impossible. It's
Speaker 1: possible that he saw some sort of angelic entity claiming
Speaker 1: to be Moron I or he just understood the power
Speaker 1: of uh you know, of the con and just claiming
Speaker 1: to have seen visions. Any comments on Joseph.
Speaker 2: Smith, I totally agree. I mean Joseph Smith, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's a mixture. His dad was deeply interested in the occult.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would argue Mormonism is the mixture of
Speaker 2: Western Asotericism, Protestant Christianity, and Freemasonry. It's kind of the formation,
Speaker 2: the foundation of what Mormonism is. So you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: anybody who believes are that, or believes in the revelations
Speaker 2: of Joseph Smith has problems with their critical reasoning skills exactly.
Speaker 1: Maximus Pike seven pounds, Thank you, gentlemen, Thank you, Maximus.
Speaker 1: Appreciate that. A panini two pounds. Jay, they're euros, not pounds.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, that's a euro nine a pound whatever. That
Speaker 1: to me, it's all fake. They're all fake, unless it's bitcoin.
Speaker 1: It might be spirit led. Paul, ten dollars. Do you
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on Zoroastrianism and the claims that it
Speaker 1: influenced Christianity, or any videos about Orthodoxy debunking this. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll say that that's something that was very popular in
Speaker 1: like older one hundred year old scholarship, like late eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds. I don't know that that's that popular
Speaker 1: anymore in academian scholarship, and you'll learn, I think, if
Speaker 1: you get deep into academic stuff, that a lot of
Speaker 1: these things are fads, right, So academia has fads, and
Speaker 1: they'll say things like, oh, early Christianity is influenced from Zoroastrianism,
Speaker 1: and this is really popular in that you're nineteen hundred,
Speaker 1: and then by nineteen seventy nobody believes this anymore. So
Speaker 1: I don't think that's really happening in academia anymore. But
Speaker 1: I don't keep up with academia because it's a bunch
Speaker 1: of nonsense anyway. So any thoughts on Zoroastrianism, doctor David
Speaker 1: Patrick here.
Speaker 2: I mean outside of it being an early monotheistic faith. No,
Speaker 2: I've seen the arguments on Zorastrianism influencing Christianity, but the
Speaker 2: very different paradigms the presuppositions are different. You know, people,
Speaker 2: I think the word concept fallacy is problematic because maybe
Speaker 2: there are similar things that are meant, but they're interpreted
Speaker 2: by those traditions very differently. So outside of Zoroastrianism being
Speaker 2: an early form of monotheism at a period in which
Speaker 2: it wasn't prevalent, I think it's historically significant for that
Speaker 2: it allowed for more literate culture in Persia, allowed for
Speaker 2: a little bit more cultural cohesion compared to the myth
Speaker 2: rhythm of previous times. But no, there's not a there's
Speaker 2: not a huge correlation between the same thing, like as
Speaker 2: you said with the Zeitgeist, I mean, the whole thing
Speaker 2: with Christ being another form of Mithra or Apollo or
Speaker 2: sole invictus. I mean, yeah, that was cool in the
Speaker 2: early two thousands, but that's just not taken seriously anymore.
Speaker 1: Let's see the last super chet here that I see,
Speaker 1: and then we'll get back to the some of the
Speaker 1: books and the text here. Yeah, Kubi and Yapper type
Speaker 1: one dollar Doctor David Patrick Curry, you should do a
Speaker 1: drama stream after this? What's love? I love the drama streams.
Speaker 1: By the way, what's the next drama stream?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Whenever something I think I get enough
Speaker 2: interesting news that comes up, But I mean, right now,
Speaker 2: I don't know what the big drama is to do,
Speaker 2: but yeah, those are fun. I just kind of go with.
Speaker 1: Well, apparently the only big drama is that Sydney Sweeney
Speaker 1: wore blue jeans and reference genetics and that's somehow, you know,
Speaker 1: the third Reich or something.
Speaker 2: So that's the Well, then Arby's just did a commercial
Speaker 2: and some US company just did a commercial, both kind
Speaker 2: of playing off the same theme. So that is a
Speaker 2: little cultural drama because we're seeing even major corporations like RB's,
Speaker 2: American Eagle and whatever that smoothie place was that the
Speaker 2: white guy did, that's all kind of saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: So it feels like there's kind of a cultural shift
Speaker 2: in some way that's going on.
Speaker 1: Jeff coasts five dollars. Yes, I've answered this question many times,
Speaker 1: not being a douchebag. It's come up a lot. Have
Speaker 1: you seen the people that claim that Yahweh was a
Speaker 1: storm god then he became the god of the Bible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so basically there's a great I don't usually recommend this person,
Speaker 1: but Weemland Craig does have one good book that's called
Speaker 1: Creation x Nilo, where he shows that the way that
Speaker 1: God has presented in just the Torah shows that he
Speaker 1: is not at all like the surrounding ancient Near Eastern
Speaker 1: deities that encompassed the nation of Israel, and he lists
Speaker 1: I think about ten different distinctives that set that God off. Furthermore,
Speaker 1: within the text itself, Baal is a storm god, and
Speaker 1: that is not Yahweh. One reason that very low IQ
Speaker 1: low tier people think this is because the word by
Speaker 1: all can mean something generic, like just a lord. And
Speaker 1: so you might call you know, Jesus lord, you might
Speaker 1: call Satan lord, you might call something you know, Elohem
Speaker 1: is another one of these terms that can just be
Speaker 1: a generic word for a deity. And so very stupid
Speaker 1: people who don't know about language and how word concept
Speaker 1: felacies work, they will think that that word always refers
Speaker 1: to the same thing. So if you have an Old
Speaker 1: Testament statement of Lord in one sense section referring to
Speaker 1: you know, Yahweh in another section where the Lord of
Speaker 1: the Canaanites right byal or whatever, they'll think it's the
Speaker 1: same reference. It's just a generic term like lord. Lord
Speaker 1: can be You could call Satan lord. You could call
Speaker 1: Jesus lord. It's a very very simple grammar mistake. Harvest
Speaker 1: two dollars. Is this a Christian YouTube channel? We're both
Speaker 1: Orthodox Christians. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the icons kind of give it away.
Speaker 1: Unbound. Five dollars, Jay, I thank you for everything. Can
Speaker 1: you explain the jays Analysis membership and what a subscriber gets.
Speaker 1: It's very simp simple, very boomer friendly. You just when
Speaker 1: you subscribe, you just go to the one single tab
Speaker 1: called member tab, and everything is under the members tab.
Speaker 1: There's no going all around. You just have one tab
Speaker 1: where there's the part one of the part two. Very
Speaker 1: boomer friendly. That's it. You get access to all of
Speaker 1: the interviews and talks that I've done for the last
Speaker 1: i'd say ten years. I think Jay's Analysis is about
Speaker 1: ten years in terms of the archives. Okay, so let's
Speaker 1: we'll get another super red Fox. Ten dollars Jay, Doctor dph.
Speaker 1: What is the subtle way that spiritual warfare manifests in
Speaker 1: our cult culture and how does orthodox practices like prayer
Speaker 1: and fasting equip you to counter the influences? Well, I
Speaker 1: would just say that, you know, really fasting and that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff is only a useful tool in terms
Speaker 1: of helping us to maintain and keep self control. Fasting
Speaker 1: itself doesn't do like we don't pay God with fasting.
Speaker 1: God doesn't benefit from us not eating. It's really just
Speaker 1: a way for us to discipline ourselves, to attain to
Speaker 1: and maintain self control and the means of grace, like
Speaker 1: prayer and especially you know, the Eucharist. That's the way
Speaker 1: in which we obtain the actual ontological power to not
Speaker 1: fall prey to the cultural influences, the demonic influences. And
Speaker 1: that's because we're participating in the uncreated grace and life
Speaker 1: and love of God through the sacraments and prayer and
Speaker 1: so forth. That's what I would say, Cotel, Do you
Speaker 1: have anything to add to that.
Speaker 2: I mean, basically what you said, I would add that prayer, fasting,
Speaker 2: the Eucharist, participating in the sacraments. This helps give you
Speaker 2: spiritual discernment, allows the Holy Spirit to be present within you.
Speaker 2: If you have more discernment, you're going to be able
Speaker 2: to navigate, whether it be propaganda, internal thoughts people you
Speaker 2: encounter much easier. So basically, what Jay said, the practice
Speaker 2: is the spiritual practice of Orthodoxy allow you to be
Speaker 2: a carrier of the Holy Spirit and have more discernment
Speaker 2: regarding the things that are happening. That's how you navigate
Speaker 2: and offend yourself against it.
Speaker 1: Jacob Kaba ten dollars. I was watching doctor David Patrick
Speaker 1: Carey's talks on Saint Paizios and the prophecies. What are
Speaker 1: your opinions on in times and the prophecies and could
Speaker 1: they be used by elites or are they more guided
Speaker 1: by God's will? Well, I mean, this is an area
Speaker 1: that I don't really delve into. I don't know a
Speaker 1: whole lot about it, so I don't have a positive
Speaker 1: or negative opinion. I know that Cotail spend a lot
Speaker 1: more time in this domain than I have, so I
Speaker 1: would say that when the end times come, will know.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have to worry too much about it.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that people can't study, you know, the prophecies,
Speaker 1: the elders and whatnot. They absolutely can. That's up to
Speaker 1: you and what you know, what you get into, what
Speaker 1: you find interesting. It's possible that elites could fake prophecies,
Speaker 1: there could be forgeries, or any of these things are possible.
Speaker 1: I don't have any evidence necessarily of that, but it
Speaker 1: is definitely within the realm of possibility. Are they more
Speaker 1: guided by God's will? I think holy men absolutely are
Speaker 1: are more guided by God's will, But I would I would.
Speaker 1: My take on this would just be that I think
Speaker 1: that divine revelation as a public binding thing ceased. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that there aren't and clairvoyant people in the church,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you can like bind everybody to
Speaker 1: these private revelations. That's my understanding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I would agree, and also say that
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of streams regarding looking at some
Speaker 2: of the eschological visions of various saints and elders, and
Speaker 2: if this stuff gives you anxiety, like, that's not the point.
Speaker 2: And really these aren't these aren't timelines for history. And
Speaker 2: as that Jay said, these are private revelations among some
Speaker 2: holy men. Some of them are very insightful, and it
Speaker 2: appear based on a third party, that they've been fulfilled,
Speaker 2: that they've come true. But really, if you read this stuff,
Speaker 2: uh in St. Piecios included was that these are just
Speaker 2: signs to be aware of. Uh. Saint Piacio's was big
Speaker 2: on the encroachment of technocracy and ecumenism, and that these
Speaker 2: are signs that every orthodox Christian needs to be aware
Speaker 2: of because they are going to move towards uh the
Speaker 2: new Babylonian kingdom, you know, the kingdom of the Antichrist.
Speaker 2: Does that mean I mean that you know something he
Speaker 2: said in the nineteen eighties. You need to be like
Speaker 2: searching the news every day and concerned and trying to
Speaker 2: pinpoint like no spiritual discernment, participating in the sacraments of
Speaker 2: the church, and then just hearing what the saints and
Speaker 2: elders have to say and looking for signs when they emerge.
Speaker 2: That's the point of it.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this because I overlooked this question.
Speaker 1: Red Fox originally said. The first line in his super
Speaker 1: chat was doctor or David Patrick Harriet, what are the
Speaker 1: subtle ways that spiritual warfare manifests and culture that we
Speaker 1: don't notice?
Speaker 2: I would say, obviously your imagination. That's the one that
Speaker 2: I talk with guys the most about is they get
Speaker 2: weird thoughts, and everybody's had the experience. You know, maybe
Speaker 2: you're on a tall building and you kind of walk
Speaker 2: towards the edge and all of a sudden you get
Speaker 2: a thought like to jump like to just kill yourself.
Speaker 2: We would believe that that's not you thinking, that that
Speaker 2: is a suggestion, that's low giz me, that's a suggestion
Speaker 2: from a demon or the evil one, and that these
Speaker 2: are the subtleties that are occurring every day. But also
Speaker 2: those subtleties can emerge through the music you listen to,
Speaker 2: through propaganda, through if you're believing news or mainstream news
Speaker 2: like these are another ways in which subtle subversion can
Speaker 2: take place. And you just have to believe a lie
Speaker 2: to move in the wrong direction. And that's the whole
Speaker 2: point of the sort of subtle spiritual warfare. I want
Speaker 2: to say one last thing on the eschatology thing is
Speaker 2: this stuff isn't for everybody. I know people love to
Speaker 2: hear about in time for the apocalypse, But the whole
Speaker 2: point is just to get this stuff available with what
Speaker 2: I work with with the Escaton Vigil in English. A
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff. Almost everything we've translated has been
Speaker 2: either in Russian, Serbian, Romanian or Greek, and they've never
Speaker 2: been in English. So our goal is just to try
Speaker 2: to get this stuff in English. And if you're wanting
Speaker 2: to participate in a community of men that are aware
Speaker 2: of these things and can interpret them in a way
Speaker 2: that doesn't cause anxiety and stress, which is absolutely not
Speaker 2: the purpose of any of it. Then you can join
Speaker 2: the Logos Academy because the Escaton Vigil, the founder of that,
Speaker 2: he's in our group. And if you sign up today tomorrow,
Speaker 2: the price is going to go up. I told for
Speaker 2: the first week it was a founding members price, So
Speaker 2: right now if you join, your price will be locked
Speaker 2: in for twenty five dollars a month. Again, that includes
Speaker 2: three meetings a month, all the exclusive content, and then
Speaker 2: the courses that I'm going to build out. So my
Speaker 2: estimation it's a great value compared to what other people
Speaker 2: are doing with the amount of time that I'm putting
Speaker 2: in with actual Zoom meetings, because as Jay knows, those
Speaker 2: are actually very time intensive and it takes you away
Speaker 2: from doing other work. So but if that's the kind
Speaker 2: of community you want to be in, where if you
Speaker 2: have a question Jacob on stuff like this, like we
Speaker 2: actually have guys that are reading this stuff and are
Speaker 2: not consumed by anxiety about it and can talk to
Speaker 2: you in a very rational and well tempered way.
Speaker 1: Spirit led Palfi dollars, do you have blessings to debate
Speaker 1: so that I can send crazy people to Please do
Speaker 1: not send crazy people to me. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think that you need a blessing to do a debate.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that the more that you move
Speaker 1: into trying to teach people, uh you know, spiritual life
Speaker 1: stuff and to try to be like a spiritual father
Speaker 1: or something like that, you need that that blessing. But
Speaker 1: I think everything that we do, you know, people know
Speaker 1: who our priests are, we know they know, you know
Speaker 1: where we go, what we're up to. You don't have
Speaker 1: to get your priests or your bishop's blessing for everything
Speaker 1: that you do. It really and also kind of depends
Speaker 1: on the context of what you're doing it, Like you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know doctor Cotel, you calling you doctor doctor David Patrick,
Speaker 1: Harry and I we both went on whatever and debated
Speaker 1: kind of crazy feminist.
Speaker 2: Chicks that'll either we don't need we don't have to call.
Speaker 1: The bishop that you know, see if we can debate
Speaker 1: some crazy chick on whatever podcast. But but no, please
Speaker 1: don't send crazy people my way. Please don't tennis racket
Speaker 1: eleven dollars and forty one cents. That guys, thank you.
Speaker 1: For the stream. Bless God, bless you both. David. I'm sorry, brother,
Speaker 1: I wanted to say something hurtful in your stream. You
Speaker 1: are great well. I think we're both men here. I
Speaker 1: don't think your word. Your words are not going to
Speaker 1: hurt us. We're rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces
Speaker 1: off of us and sticks to you, so our feelings
Speaker 1: are not hurt. We're big boys. Let me see him.
Speaker 1: Make sure I'm not missing a super chat here. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask you about the Esslin Institute because you
Speaker 1: recommended this book. I have read some of it by
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Krippall. It is a very enlightening and I think
Speaker 1: the thing that really first stuck out to me that
Speaker 1: made me want to get it as I was sort
Speaker 1: of flipping through it was the chapter Sex with Angels,
Speaker 1: the Non Local Mind UFOs, and the end to Ordinary History,
Speaker 1: where we talk about this figure of Russell targ the
Speaker 1: Cia psychic spy who became a mystic. Once I see that,
Speaker 1: I'm enthralled. Esalin seems to me to be the sort
Speaker 1: of the boomer think tank that births almost It's sort
Speaker 1: of the the brains behind the sixties counterculture revolution and
Speaker 1: it even gets into this out there sort of alien
Speaker 1: and CIA stuff. What about Essline? What about this book?
Speaker 1: And how does Esslin play into your thesis when it
Speaker 1: comes to hallucinogens and transhumanism?
Speaker 2: So, I mean Eslin is the foundation of what's called
Speaker 2: the human potential movement, and whether you're talking about transhumanism
Speaker 2: or psychedelic mysticism, the human potential movement is essential to
Speaker 2: both of those. And the belief is that we're capable
Speaker 2: of way more than we're actually presenting now, and that
Speaker 2: these are sort of spiritually latent abilities and stuff.
Speaker 1: By the way, By the way, I'm sorry, let me
Speaker 1: just at one point, I don't I don't forget this
Speaker 1: human potential thing, because Jamie asked me about this last night.
Speaker 1: She said, who's Norman Vincent Peel? People don't know that
Speaker 1: Norman Vincent Peel is the father of positive thinking, and
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that also is going to tie into what
Speaker 1: you're saying with Esslin, And don't forget that positive thinking
Speaker 1: is also what influenced people like Robert Schuler the first
Speaker 1: big megachurch Crystal Cathedral stuff, to take Christianity and turned
Speaker 1: it into a positive thinking with a cult with a
Speaker 1: Christian Veneer.
Speaker 2: And that's the official Christianity according to the White House
Speaker 2: right now? The was it Paula White?
Speaker 1: Oh? Is she part of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, And that's how I know that Trump is
Speaker 2: because Trump was a big Peel fan, and he's all
Speaker 2: into positive thinking. That's part of his rhetoric is that
Speaker 2: he always wants to rhetorically display something in the way
Speaker 2: in which he wants it to be. He's very convinced
Speaker 2: that this positive thinking and the law of affirmation and
Speaker 2: the way you the words, Hey.
Speaker 1: Dude, I manifest that stuff. I just manifested. I want
Speaker 1: it and I'm manifested.
Speaker 2: Bro. Yeah. Well, and that's why Paula White was his
Speaker 2: personal pastor. I mean, she's one of these prosperity Gospels,
Speaker 2: but she's all positive thinking. And that's why Trump latched
Speaker 2: onto hers, because she basically validated his secular law of
Speaker 2: attraction into a form of Protestant Zionis Christianity. So regarding
Speaker 2: the Human Potential movement in Eslin, though, Esslin is a
Speaker 2: fascinating little piece of history that most people, as the
Speaker 2: average person, has never even heard of. But this was
Speaker 2: really the think tank, I mean, in nineteen sixty three,
Speaker 2: so just you know, everybody knows the nineteen sixties counterculture,
Speaker 2: but it's nineteen sixty three that Leary gets fired from
Speaker 2: Harvard because ram Das was having a gay relationship with
Speaker 2: an undergraduate student. Rams, yeah, exactly, So they get fired
Speaker 2: from Harvard. So from sixty to sixty three is the
Speaker 2: early Harvard research on psilocybin. Sixty three is also then
Speaker 2: when the Esslin Institute begins to have people like Aldus
Speaker 2: Huxley come and present his sort of perennial philosophy, and
Speaker 2: so you know, sixty seven is the Summer of Love,
Speaker 2: sixty nine is Woodstock, and so that gives you a
Speaker 2: little bit of a timeframe. And so through the sixties,
Speaker 2: the Esslin Institute is where the people of the counterculture,
Speaker 2: you know, essentially, and Krypel talks about that, it's a
Speaker 2: it's a who's who. I mean, everybody who goes there
Speaker 2: basically as a PhD. So this isn't like the average,
Speaker 2: you know, run of the mill kind of person. This
Speaker 2: is an institute dedicated to advancing humanity to its like
Speaker 2: ultimate endpoint and its capabilities. So they're using gestalt therapy,
Speaker 2: they're using psychedelics, they're using tantric forms of yoga, anything
Speaker 2: in regards to the elevation you know, of personal consciousness
Speaker 2: is being used there. There's a famous story that you
Speaker 2: probably read of Hunter Thompson actually being pissed because they
Speaker 2: have there's like a natural spa there at Esslin, and
Speaker 2: even in the early six these gay men would go
Speaker 2: there and Hunter s Thompson, who was not fan of
Speaker 2: homosexual he was part of the counterculture, and he was
Speaker 2: actually hired by Michael Murphy to be the sort of
Speaker 2: security guard for the premises and allowed him to stay
Speaker 2: there while he worked on some of the different stuff.
Speaker 2: He actually went out there to confront four gay men
Speaker 2: who were frolicking with each other in the bath and
Speaker 2: actually got beat up by them, and he never returned
Speaker 2: to Eslin again.
Speaker 1: No, I did not know that we have. Jamie and
Speaker 1: I took a road trip some years back when we
Speaker 1: were first dating, and we did drive up Big Sir,
Speaker 1: and we drove past it, but we didn't go to it.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful the area, I mean.
Speaker 1: It is gory, Yeah, Big Sir is awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean you literally look out there's whales, dolphins. I
Speaker 2: mean it is like an ideal scenic Yeah, it's perfect,
Speaker 2: yeah place, and it's built on the ruins of a
Speaker 2: Native American.
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, this becomes I mean, it becomes
Speaker 1: a hub right of the counter culture. You've got Deepak Chopra,
Speaker 1: You've got like all of these sort of big counterculture
Speaker 1: figures at some point have gone and done lectures and
Speaker 1: seminars at Esslin.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Abraham Maslow, I mean for his his hierarchy of
Speaker 2: values again, that's all that was tied with the Human
Speaker 2: Potential Movement because they're trying to get the you know,
Speaker 2: what do people need, which then kinds ties with socialist ideas.
Speaker 2: While they need they need food and shelter, they need education,
Speaker 2: we need to provide all these things so that each individual.
Speaker 1: That was also part of M culture too. Maslow was
Speaker 1: part of M cultra. The Human Potential Movement was studied
Speaker 1: in mcultra too. In fact, they even put that into
Speaker 1: military studies where they were experimenting on certain troops and
Speaker 1: certain special operations divisions where they tried to inculcate them
Speaker 1: with like extreme forms of positive thinking to see if
Speaker 1: it could like alter how well they performed in battle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the Esslin Institute, to your point, I
Speaker 2: mean we're talking like a skinner and his behaviorism, like
Speaker 2: he went there to give lectures. This this whole thing
Speaker 2: was about advancing and acquiring like supernatural abilities. And this
Speaker 2: gets tied with quantum physics. You know, Russell Targ he's
Speaker 2: like a remote viewer and they have this research. So
Speaker 2: one of the interest things about Esslin is that during
Speaker 2: the Cold War, somehow they had permission by the CIA
Speaker 2: to be involved with other mystics in Russia. Now we
Speaker 2: were told, you know, there was no communication between Russian
Speaker 2: and America.
Speaker 1: Wearing a sky spies. Mark Hackert is a good essay
Speaker 1: on Russian psychic spies called sy Spies.
Speaker 2: And there's a whole section in that book talking about
Speaker 2: how somehow, you know, they were they were able to
Speaker 2: take trips government sanctioned to Russia, Russians coming to Esslin,
Speaker 2: and that they performed some remote viewing experiment where one
Speaker 2: of the mystics in Russia was able to hold some object,
Speaker 2: it was like a toy elephant or something, and that
Speaker 2: one of the remote viewers at Esslin could then tap
Speaker 2: into his awareness and they accurately described the thing that
Speaker 2: they were holding. And so Russell Target is one of
Speaker 2: these individuals that really big and promoting remote viewing and
Speaker 2: access to these supernatural abilities.
Speaker 1: Well, this is like verging on like X Men levels,
Speaker 1: you know, stranger things, you know, super kid type stuff
Speaker 1: that they were evolving these like latent powers.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, Well Krepel has a famous article talking about
Speaker 2: superheroes and comics and how this was actually the again
Speaker 2: that forties, fifties, sixties culture of science fiction was absolutely
Speaker 2: influencing what they thought they were doing at the Eslin Institute,
Speaker 2: and it was literally to create these supernatural humans through
Speaker 2: psychological process against stalt therapy, different things like that to
Speaker 2: raise conscious.
Speaker 1: Oh, if you've seen that Brian De Palmer movie called
Speaker 1: The Fury, you should watch that. We did a SIOP cinema,
Speaker 1: the SYP cinema guys and I we did an analysis
Speaker 1: of We called it MK Kids, which was the idea
Speaker 1: of like movies that dealt with gifted children evolving to
Speaker 1: have these sort of X men abilities. Three come to mind,
Speaker 1: one of which is from nineteen seventy eight, and it's
Speaker 1: like Brian De Palmer's version of the Exorcist. But it's
Speaker 1: actually worth watching because I mean it's there's some crazy
Speaker 1: like Cia intelligence type stuff in there, Like it begins
Speaker 1: with Michael Douglass in Israel faking a T E R
Speaker 1: R O R attack on like an Israeli beach from Palestinians.
Speaker 1: It's it's very bizarre, and then it turns into this
Speaker 1: whole big intelligence drama where they're experimenting on his son
Speaker 1: because his son has these sort of latent telekinesis abilities,
Speaker 1: so it turns into it like a total sort of
Speaker 1: MP Ultra style thing. There's also The Stephen King Fire
Speaker 1: started with Drew Barrymore, which is about children developing these
Speaker 1: things being studied by secret government projects telekinesis and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And then there is The New Mutants with Anya Taylor Joy,
Speaker 1: where uh, it's a backstory to The X Men, where
Speaker 1: it's like they're putting these children in this like secret school,
Speaker 1: which is kind of what Professor Ax is doing, but
Speaker 1: in that case it's more explicitly that trauma based mind
Speaker 1: control is believed to spur on and cause these psychic abilities,
Speaker 1: which is something that does come up in this literature.
Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to get off into the weeds,
Speaker 1: but there's actually quite a few movies that touch on
Speaker 1: this theme, right I.
Speaker 2: Mean we did a whole stream on Project Stargate. Oh ye,
Speaker 2: good point, exactly well documented CIA funding project on again
Speaker 2: really research we talked about. This research coming out of
Speaker 2: Eslin is what influences in the CIA in the eighties
Speaker 2: developing Project Stargate, which is ironically the same name of
Speaker 2: the new AI project that Trump just oh right, right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, there a lot of interesting connections in Eslin
Speaker 2: was essentially the intellectual catalyst for all this stuff. This
Speaker 2: isn't I mean, you can go as a regular person's
Speaker 2: very expensive, but as Crypel talks about in that book,
Speaker 2: I mean almost if you go in, you know, on
Speaker 2: a regular day, almost everybody there's an academic or some
Speaker 2: type of professional. This is kind of an elite place
Speaker 2: for elite people that are interested in these projects. And eventually,
Speaker 2: you know, by the eighties you get somebody like Terence
Speaker 2: McKinnon who becomes a resident lecturer there, and so you know,
Speaker 2: by the eighties and into the nineties, psychedelics and psychedelics
Speaker 2: being something that can liberate you from the historical constraints
Speaker 2: of man is part and parcel of the Esslin Institute,
Speaker 2: and where it connects with transhumanism is by the nineties,
Speaker 2: Leary is kind of given up on being the psychedelic
Speaker 2: LSD guru. He writes a book like Your Brain Is God,
Speaker 2: where he's arguing that computers are the new LSD and
Speaker 2: that transhumanism is the future, and that everything that happened
Speaker 2: in the sixties and seventies that he was a part of,
Speaker 2: he's saying is going to be fulfilled through through technology
Speaker 2: and computer and AI.
Speaker 1: Did you ever there's a great documentary that's pretty famous.
Speaker 1: It's called The Unibomber, the Net and mk Ultra or
Speaker 1: something like that. Have you seen that?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: You got to see that because they actually go and
Speaker 1: interview people at Esslin Institute, and they they even get
Speaker 1: into stuff like the Vienna the positivists of the Vienna
Speaker 1: Circle and how it all ties into LSD and the
Speaker 1: It's it's a really good documentary. I'll try to dig
Speaker 1: that up and find that you should definitely watch. Everybody
Speaker 1: audius to watch that too, And everybody should watch the
Speaker 1: movies that we just mentioned, including The Fury. They're they're
Speaker 1: all very relevant to what we're talking about and demonstrate
Speaker 1: I think that this is this is all real, This
Speaker 1: is not conspiracy stuff. This's actually very legitimately, Like I'm
Speaker 1: not saying the Telekinese's powers are real. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: that they really do study and are interested in this,
Speaker 1: and it's infected the society so far as to like
Speaker 1: literally be the origins indirectly of as he pointed out,
Speaker 1: the Prospect Gospel all coming out of positive thinking. New thought,
Speaker 1: I think is one of this too, is a new
Speaker 1: thought part of that.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Okay, So anything else you want to tell us about this,
Speaker 1: and then maybe we can tie it into you know,
Speaker 1: transhumanism and anything else you want to say about your
Speaker 1: your thesis here, because this is all this is how
Speaker 1: we got in the modern world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is how we got to the
Speaker 2: modern world. And I mean, I don't have much more
Speaker 2: to say about Eslam. We kind of hit it. I mean,
Speaker 2: unless you want to get into minutia that maybe some
Speaker 2: of the people would be interested in. But generally speaking,
Speaker 2: I mean, Eslin's just an important spot. I mean, when
Speaker 2: you start talking about like Alan Watts and his Asian studies,
Speaker 2: I forget exactly what it was, the American study of
Speaker 2: Asian culture or something in San Francisco. All this stuff
Speaker 2: is spawned out of the Esslin Institute, which was closely
Speaker 2: tied with Stanford University, which Stanford University is, and it's
Speaker 2: closely tied. And this is the conduit of how all
Speaker 2: this stuff is connected. And when you read the history
Speaker 2: of Eslin, you see that the government was not interested
Speaker 2: in shutting all this stuff down, you know, the way
Speaker 2: that it's present as the counter culture, right, they're fighting
Speaker 2: against the man. But even in Kreipel's book, which is
Speaker 2: celebrated by the founder of the Eslin Institute, it clearly
Speaker 2: shows that the government was retarded.
Speaker 1: I hate that narrative so much. Just like the CIA,
Speaker 1: the Foundations, the Thing tanks, the military, the Pentagon bankers,
Speaker 1: they're all putting zillions of dollars into those exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And just like you you pointed out about maps, Maps
Speaker 2: is now the academically respected study of like psychedelics. So
Speaker 2: if you are an academic, you're going to be affiliated
Speaker 2: with this group and publish your research and association with them.
Speaker 2: And again that is all tied back to the Eslin Institute,
Speaker 2: which as you said, is tied with Soros funding and
Speaker 2: globaliss initiatives and all that different stuff. Because it's fundamentally perennialus.
Speaker 2: So the thing about Eslin that they don't accept is
Speaker 2: if you to say one religion is absolutely.
Speaker 1: True, the way the truth life John fourteen six. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the only thing that you can't see kick out.
Speaker 2: But if you're interested in perennialism, which is the basis
Speaker 2: of that entire project, you're warmly welcomed and they don't
Speaker 2: care where you come from or what you're into.
Speaker 1: I would add too, people overlook that Crowley is also
Speaker 1: the father of the modern drug counterculture, right because Croley
Speaker 1: wrote his drug Diary way before even Huxley was doing stuff,
Speaker 1: and Huxley would go and do that. They would go
Speaker 1: to orgies and drug parties together, him and Crowley, and
Speaker 1: so doctor Richard Spence theorizes that Huxley got the idea
Speaker 1: for drug experimentation, which is what would become in k Ultra,
Speaker 1: through reading Croley's drug Diary. And remember that Crowley was
Speaker 1: of course an asset for British intelligence, so these things
Speaker 1: always overlap, and this is decades before the existence of Esslin.
Speaker 2: And even tied with that general history is Jack Parsons,
Speaker 2: who was a member of the Hermitic Golden Downs with
Speaker 2: Alis Da Crowley. They have of falling out because Parsons
Speaker 2: was more radical than Crowley was here according to Crowley.
Speaker 2: And a little tidbit about l Ron Hubbard, founder of
Speaker 2: science uh Scientology is they he he documented an attempt
Speaker 2: that Jack Parsons had to give birth to the Antichrist,
Speaker 2: in which him Babylon Work committed, yeah, participate in a
Speaker 2: sexual ritual with Jack Parson's girlfriend at the time, which
Speaker 2: ended with l Ron Hubbard being ashamed of himself because
Speaker 2: he's watching Jack Parson masturbade.
Speaker 1: Well. Also in Craig Heimbinger's book, he even alleges that
Speaker 1: Parsons was sleeping with his mom because in one of
Speaker 1: the Suckybius rituals he believed that you know, I n
Speaker 1: c E. S. T. Was was required for that.
Speaker 2: They're into weird stuff.
Speaker 1: Red Fox ten dollars d. Do you remember what the
Speaker 1: military study was called? If you're referring to the one
Speaker 1: that I mentioned about, uh like black ops and positive Thinking,
Speaker 1: It's it's from a one book that was published I
Speaker 1: think by an Australian guy, and I did a podcast
Speaker 1: on this because this is a really obscure, hard to
Speaker 1: find book and if you go to my rock fin
Speaker 1: I don't. I think it's it's probably for members too,
Speaker 1: but it's like at Rocktin. It is something like MK
Speaker 1: Ultra in Australia because people don't even know that M
Speaker 1: culture wasn't just in America and Canada, it was actually
Speaker 1: at universities all over the world. And uh, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a lot. There needs to be like new research
Speaker 1: done on this because I didn't even realize that like
Speaker 1: Carl Jung and you and Cameron were they were at
Speaker 1: they were at Bergoldsey in Switzerland doing experiments and people
Speaker 1: don't even talk about or know this.
Speaker 2: Well, the Sandoz lab where Albert Hoffman created LSD was also.
Speaker 1: In Switchland, exactly exactly, and some guy wrote this book.
Speaker 1: I'll have to I found it just randomly on like
Speaker 1: a message board somewhere. I don't even remember the name
Speaker 1: of it. I'll have to dig it up. But he
Speaker 1: wrote a book about the history of M culture projects
Speaker 1: in Australia basically, so there was all this research that
Speaker 1: was done, even supposedly that serial killer who was doing
Speaker 1: sleep studies and basically killed dozens of people at a
Speaker 1: psychiatric and instead he's a famous He's most famous serial
Speaker 1: killer in Australia. That was actually part of mkultr. He
Speaker 1: was studying putting people to sleep to the point of
Speaker 1: death and then bringing them back so like they're when
Speaker 1: their heart rate would go all the way down to death,
Speaker 1: and then bringing them back to see what he could
Speaker 1: figure out. I mean, but he was actually just a
Speaker 1: serial killer. He's getting off on doing it. I forget
Speaker 1: that guy's named doctor Henry something. But that's all basically
Speaker 1: all of it. Australia is a bunch of m kults
Speaker 1: stuff is all it is. But I did not remember
Speaker 1: the name of the book. I'd have to dig it up,
Speaker 1: but it is in my archive under m Cultra stuff.
Speaker 1: You could find it in there. And in that talk
Speaker 1: I referenced the book random Name two dollars. Mister Mythos
Speaker 1: did an excellent video on stargate. I don't mister Mythos,
Speaker 1: but I will say that doctor David Patrick Harry and
Speaker 1: I did a really good talk on stargates, so I
Speaker 1: would say, check out ours. I don't know this other dude.
Speaker 1: A penny two euros. What is your SBD? What does
Speaker 1: that sound for? We don't know what that means? Death
Speaker 1: culture ten dollars, what do you guys take on intentional communities?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts, if you have any, it would
Speaker 1: be get to develop social capital for Orthodox You know,
Speaker 1: this does exist to a degree amongst Orthodox there are
Speaker 1: people who are almost experimenting but attempting to create Orthodox
Speaker 1: only communities sort of outside of town. And I mean
Speaker 1: I think that that's probably there a wise approach in
Speaker 1: terms of this country sort of going downhill. I don't
Speaker 1: think that would be a problem. But I think when
Speaker 1: you talk about intentional communities with like yoga chicks and
Speaker 1: you know, man bun dudes doing you know, meditation, that's
Speaker 1: probably not going to work out too well. So what
Speaker 1: do you think about intentional communities?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think long term it's it's probably a
Speaker 2: good idea. We talk about this in some of our
Speaker 2: group meetings about in an ideal world, it'd be nice
Speaker 2: if there were hubs of Orthodox all across the United
Speaker 2: States that theoretically Orthodox Christians could travel and stop from
Speaker 2: community to community. Obviously, there's one kind of already growing
Speaker 2: and exists outside Saint Anthony's in Arizona. I mean, they
Speaker 2: basically have their own neighborhood. So I think if if
Speaker 2: people were able to actually organize. That's the difficult part.
Speaker 2: I think. First we need to begin with some type
Speaker 2: of some type of document that can demonstrate all the
Speaker 2: Orthodox business owners. So if you live in upstate New
Speaker 2: York and there's an Orthodox guy that follows Jay and
Speaker 2: he's a plumber, go hire him. We need to create
Speaker 2: some type of economic incentive first of all, which we're
Speaker 2: so disconnected, we're so small in the United States. It's
Speaker 2: kind of hard. But you know, one of the ideas
Speaker 2: I had a place like Mississippi. There's like old towns
Speaker 2: that have like one hundred to two hundred people that
Speaker 2: used to be thousands of people live there, and so
Speaker 2: they have like an infrastructure old, kind of decrepit. But theoretically,
Speaker 2: imagine like one hundred Orthodox families move into a town
Speaker 2: that has infrastructure like that and begins to rejuvenate it,
Speaker 2: and then we can elect our own mayor and we
Speaker 2: could kind of build our own local government with something
Speaker 2: that already exists. But again, making that happen logistically is
Speaker 2: just pretty difficult. But if you know people that are
Speaker 2: interested have the same values, yeah, absolutely, we need more
Speaker 2: of community and we need places where people can actually
Speaker 2: have reassurance with each other and their neighbor.
Speaker 1: Big iron Fi dollars Jay, Doctor David Patrick carry, there's
Speaker 1: an arrative that early Christians use psychedelics. I doubt it
Speaker 1: was ever accepted. Do you think this is credible? Well,
Speaker 1: you must have missed the first hour, because we covered
Speaker 1: all that in the first hour. And no, we don't
Speaker 1: believe that. A Panini says SBD means squat, bench deadlift.
Speaker 1: So doctor David, what is your SBD? Silent but deadly.
Speaker 2: I don't do any maxing right now, so everything I'm
Speaker 2: doing is like eight to fifteen reps, so squats, a
Speaker 2: couple forty five's on each side, same with bench, and
Speaker 2: probably three plates and a twenty five on deadlift stuff
Speaker 2: like that. But I'm not a powerlifter, so I really
Speaker 2: don't do any maxing out and try to find the
Speaker 2: max amount of weight.
Speaker 1: I can lift. Yeah, Also, I would say, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is just my opinion, but there are some issues
Speaker 1: like for example, ro Coorus had some issues with the
Speaker 1: monasteries in Arizona, and when Laity go or confession or
Speaker 1: they go to the monasteries, think they thinking that they're
Speaker 1: being like super pious, and then they get advice that
Speaker 1: monastics give to other monastics. There have been multiple problems
Speaker 1: with this. Yes, so it may not be the best
Speaker 1: idea to try if you're gonna set up an intentional
Speaker 1: community to necessarily think that we have to move next
Speaker 1: to a monastery. And I mean, I'm not saying you can't,
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that may not be like the
Speaker 1: ideal situation. But that's because I'm in rocorps and there's
Speaker 1: certain issues with that. Bon Jovi nineteen twelve, fifty dollars
Speaker 1: and says nothing, Well, thank you so much. Appreciate that,
Speaker 1: sir Jeff cost Us. I'm sorry about the Galway storm
Speaker 1: gut question. You don't have to apologize. That's just a
Speaker 1: question that you know. We have answered that. I appreciate
Speaker 1: you answering it in different ways, detail ways. Keep up
Speaker 1: the good word. Yeah, I would just say riad A
Speaker 1: creation x Nilo by William Lane Craig, even though I
Speaker 1: don't typically recommend William Lane Craig. But okay, so guys,
Speaker 1: don't want to remind you to. I have a show sponsor,
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Speaker 1: com choq dot com. Also to remind you guys that
Speaker 1: next up, I'm halfway through Siphadin almost is excellent book,
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin Standard. The first half of the book covers
Speaker 1: the history of money. I didn't even realize that you're
Speaker 1: basically getting an entire history lesson on money. Of course,
Speaker 1: he is coming from the Austrian school of economics largely,
Speaker 1: which is I would say about eighty to ninety percent correct.
Speaker 1: I have some reservations about Austrian economics, but overall it's
Speaker 1: definitely way better than socialist or Keynesian economics, of which
Speaker 1: the first half is a great critique. The second half
Speaker 1: then gets into the value proposition for bitcoin as a currency,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna be covering that next maybe tomorrow. We'll
Speaker 1: see when I'm ready to do a part one, So
Speaker 1: be sure and come on over and listen to our
Speaker 1: defense a bigcoin. I'm gonna be dealing with all the objections.
Speaker 1: I've heard them all a million times for the last
Speaker 1: nine years. I'm sure all of you and the audience
Speaker 1: are going to have all the same thought objections, so
Speaker 1: go ahead and bring it. I'm ready. Let's get into
Speaker 1: Siphidine's book. And then of course we have a doctor
Speaker 1: David Patrick. Harry's channel is linked to be sure and
Speaker 1: follow him, and he is in the show description and
Speaker 1: his logos academy. Do you have any other issues, any
Speaker 1: other things on your mind you want to get? By
Speaker 1: the way, who remind everybody? The last time that Cotel
Speaker 1: and I did is stream. It was one of my
Speaker 1: favorites because he brought me on to talk about British
Speaker 1: intelligence and Islam. I love talking about espionage and spy stuff,
Speaker 1: probably more than anything else. Well, I said that it's
Speaker 1: equal up there with I mean, obviously I talk about theology,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying like, other than the theological stuff, I
Speaker 1: like to talk about the spy stuff and I like
Speaker 1: to do the comedic stuff. So that's up there. So
Speaker 1: be sure and check out our stream on British intelligence
Speaker 1: and Islam. That was a fascinating topic. Kotol, What is
Speaker 1: on your mind? What are you doing next? What should
Speaker 1: we be looking for?
Speaker 2: I mean the big thing that I'm doing next is
Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, is trying to get this dissertation published,
Speaker 2: and so some of the stuff, as I kind of
Speaker 2: gave an overview, I don't want to repeat myself, but
Speaker 2: if you're interested in a detailed and then again, this
Speaker 2: is very academic take on comparing Orthodox deification theosis and
Speaker 2: how this has kind of been bastardized and how we
Speaker 2: got to a point in which transhumanism is actually competing
Speaker 2: with other Christian sentiments. And so there there is like
Speaker 2: the Christian Transhumanist Association. It's actually I think headquartered in Tennessee,
Speaker 2: maybe around Nashville.
Speaker 1: Even though so that's in our neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's and it's not it's not really super influential,
Speaker 2: but they are very outspoken and they try to they
Speaker 2: try to corporate like Saint Maximus the Confessor and Orthodox
Speaker 2: Saints as like oh look again, they're not Orthodox. It's
Speaker 2: a very progressive form of Christianity. It's non denominational. But
Speaker 2: they are constantly appealing to Orthodox theosis as being the
Speaker 2: continuity and strand that transhumanists is emerging from. And so
Speaker 2: the dissertation, like, if you're interested in theories of mine,
Speaker 2: we're talking about functionalism and what is the metaphysics of
Speaker 2: a transhumanist paradigm, and these various groups that are explicitly
Speaker 2: religious in they're transhumanism. You know, there's the Alcore Life
Speaker 2: Extension Center in Scottsdale, Arizona, this where they're doing cryonic
Speaker 2: freezing and stuff like that. And the head philosopher of
Speaker 2: transhumanism is Max Moore. He's an atheist guy who actually
Speaker 2: has an article that I quote in the dissertation called
Speaker 2: in Praise of the Devil where he appeals to Satan.
Speaker 2: He argues, not an ontologically real figure, but a perfect
Speaker 2: archetype to rebel against this constraining system of Christian morality,
Speaker 2: and Christian it's almost like a Nietzschean thing, like the
Speaker 2: Christian slave morality. So that transhumanism can actually elevate us
Speaker 2: to the promise that Lucifer, the true inspiration of human liberation,
Speaker 2: can move us towards. And so that dissertation, like I said,
Speaker 2: it's going to be a book titled Return to Babylon
Speaker 2: From Adam to Antichrist is the kind of working title
Speaker 2: that I got. I'm trying to come up with a
Speaker 2: book cover right now. And so we haven't fully landed
Speaker 2: on one that's perfect. But the general theme I was thinking,
Speaker 2: and anybody has advised, feel free to reach out to me,
Speaker 2: was something like an apocalyptic dystopian wasteland where a Darwinian
Speaker 2: evolution of man actually begins with like fallen atom and
Speaker 2: leads to the transhumanist Antichrist, and behind them is like
Speaker 2: an Orthodox Byzantine church or something, and it's not affected
Speaker 2: by the detritus and all the debris of the dystopian
Speaker 2: scene behind it, because there's not really again the academic
Speaker 2: title so long and verbose that it it's not catchy.
Speaker 2: So I came up with return to Babylon from Adam
Speaker 2: to Antichrist, and I hope that's something of that theme. Again,
Speaker 2: we haven't landed on something. I've been trying to use
Speaker 2: AI and stuff to get a template, and then my
Speaker 2: thumbnail guy who is going to help actually create the
Speaker 2: actual book cover, so it's not just AI generated. But
Speaker 2: I hope, as I said, to have that out by August.
Speaker 2: And so I launched the Logos Academy. That was the
Speaker 2: big one after the whatever podcast, is trying to launch
Speaker 2: the community, get all the content up there again. If
Speaker 2: you joined today, it's it's the last day. To get
Speaker 2: the founding member price, which is just twenty five dollars,
Speaker 2: and if you purchase for the full year, it's two fifty.
Speaker 2: So you get two months free and you get a
Speaker 2: free week. So if you sign up, you automatically get
Speaker 2: a free week trial. So if you get on there
Speaker 2: and you like.
Speaker 1: Get free weed, yeah, free weed, it sounds lot. Free week.
Speaker 1: That was a joke.
Speaker 2: Free week. Yeah. So you get on there and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this deep h is full of shit, he doesn't you know? Okay,
Speaker 2: you can leave and not spend any your money. I
Speaker 2: would assume if you spend your time and you actually
Speaker 2: engage with the guys in the community, you're going to
Speaker 2: appreciate it and find it worth your value. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is gonna My goal is once we have three
Speaker 2: four courses, you know, the price to be a member
Speaker 2: is going to continually to go up. So if that's
Speaker 2: something you're interested in, and so, as I said, trying
Speaker 2: to get some ebooks out. So by the end of
Speaker 2: the year, my goal is to have one academic book,
Speaker 2: which I know is not going to be a popular seller,
Speaker 2: a couple general books for regular people, tied with courses
Speaker 2: on the on the Academy. But then I was speaking
Speaker 2: with and I mentioned, actually, Rachel thought this was a
Speaker 2: great idea. Is I was thinking about writing a book
Speaker 2: for an eighteen year old mail because you look at
Speaker 2: like Relo Tomolo, he's got the rational mail or you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the people in the manosphere are these
Speaker 2: online contents. I think Ruslan has his own book. They're
Speaker 2: very general books for the average reader, yea. And so
Speaker 2: everything that I've written is not for the average reader,
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be popular. It's very academic.
Speaker 2: So I thought for something more popular oriented, is I
Speaker 2: was going to do it write a book called The
Speaker 2: Crisis of Man, and I want to start on this
Speaker 2: by the end of the year and basically bring an
Speaker 2: eighteen year old male who knows nothing up to speed
Speaker 2: on the state of the world, so central banking, federal reserve,
Speaker 2: Fiat currency, the meaning crisis, the death of God, you know,
Speaker 2: the history of philosophy, how we get to the post
Speaker 2: modern turn, the death of masculinity, the destruction of a
Speaker 2: nuclear families, all this different stuff that we're dealing with
Speaker 2: in culture, and write it not so much for somebody
Speaker 2: who has a background knowledge in this stuff, but assuming
Speaker 2: an eighteen year old guy knows absolutely nothing to have
Speaker 2: like a one hundred and fifty one hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: five page book that kind of brings them up to speed.
Speaker 2: And then the conclusion is orthodoxy. But it's not going
Speaker 2: to be marketed as an orthodox book. It's just going
Speaker 2: to demonstrate everything that we're dealing with again, the crisis
Speaker 2: of man, why orthodoxy is the ultimate solution. So my
Speaker 2: goal is that will be a general reader, a physical
Speaker 2: copy book, and I hope to have that done by
Speaker 2: like next summer. So that's kind of the big things
Speaker 2: on the agenda. And of course creating streams so you know,
Speaker 2: church eternal logos, that's always gonna kind of be the
Speaker 2: same thing. And then I have an old YouTube channel
Speaker 2: that we mentioned, the one on Psychedelics that I've kind
Speaker 2: of rebranded as doctor David Patrick Harry, and I think
Speaker 2: that's gonna be more of like whatever's the popular topic
Speaker 2: people are talking about. Do like video reviews. I mean
Speaker 2: you look at like the Daily Wires level of content.
Speaker 2: It's really just commentary on things that the people are doing.
Speaker 1: I watched it one hour of Ben Shapiro, and I
Speaker 1: was just sick because I've never watched it, and it's like,
Speaker 1: basically he just watches a clip and then tells you
Speaker 1: what was in the clip that you just watched, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, why are people paying for this? I
Speaker 1: don't understand, literally, what's the value in this is so lame?
Speaker 2: Basically the Daily Wire, Yeah, p.
Speaker 1: Man two dollars. Is there an Elamite Islamistan, Mason, Persian
Speaker 1: caa connection? I don't know. It's a lot of things
Speaker 1: strung together. I think the CIA definitely has an interest
Speaker 1: in Shia Islam and Iran and in that sense Persia.
Speaker 1: I don't know about all that other stuff though. V
Speaker 1: Scott two dollars. Is the site something that women can
Speaker 1: eventually join or only men?
Speaker 2: It's only for men right now. So last night we
Speaker 2: had our first group meeting and it was overwhelmingly supported
Speaker 2: by all the men that no women can join our meetings.
Speaker 2: It's just an all male space. It's for male formation,
Speaker 2: and we got guys that are very successful, like mature men,
Speaker 2: and so the goal is to get young guys, established
Speaker 2: men together and then talk about and learn about a
Speaker 2: variety of different things. So no, no women are allowed. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's women only spaces, but the logos against.
Speaker 1: It's a woman. It's a black woman only space over
Speaker 1: here on my channel. So all of you ladies, especially
Speaker 1: black ladies, You're all welcome over here on my channel,
Speaker 1: even though co Tell doesn't want you. I do, right,
Speaker 1: I'm like Lady Liberty over here. I got that torch.
Speaker 1: Bring me all of your sullen masses and your black
Speaker 1: ladies over here on my channel. I'm just kidding. You
Speaker 1: look mad? Is that making you? You look like you're mad.
Speaker 1: We've been making jokes on my channel for a while
Speaker 1: now that like there's only like nine percent female audience
Speaker 1: of my channel in terms of the demographics, but I
Speaker 1: keep saying, like black people popping up in the comments.
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, like maybe I just have like nine
Speaker 1: percent black girl audience. But I'm just joking. I'm just joking,
Speaker 1: you know. I think we need more all male spaces.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even exist anymore. And that like feminist will
Speaker 1: like sue you if you try to create that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff on a big scale, Like if you try
Speaker 1: to create a business, you know, like a cigar bar
Speaker 1: that's only for you know, guys, and then you'll get
Speaker 1: feminists it'll sue you. It's it's just insane. V Scott
Speaker 1: says to